Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Eugene on creating his "special" character, The Rock, Kurt Angle, being an NXT trainer

Episode Date: December 3, 2020

Nick "Eugene" Dinsmore talks with Chris Van Vliet from his home in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. He talks about how he created the Eugene character with Rip Rogers, why Eugene was so popular, did he think it was controversial or inspirational, his interactions with The Rock, Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan, Vince McMahon, and others, his time in rehab, being a trainer for NXT, his wrestling promotion called Midwest All Pro Wrestling and more! Support the show by supporting our sponsors: BOSLEY- Losing your hair? Bosley can help! Get a free info kit and a $250 off gift card by texting CVV to 203-203 or visit https://www.bosley.com/lp/chrisvanvliet/  INDEED- Try it today with a $75 credit to boost your job post by going to http://indeed.com/BlueWire BETONLINE- Get a FREE welcome bonus by using the promo code BLUEWIRE at http://betonline.ag Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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With the powerful questions. Woo! This is the Chris Van Bleach Show. Chris Van Bleach Show. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. Welcome back to the Chris Van Bleet Show. This episode is brought to you by Bosley, Indeed, and Bet Online. And I'm really excited for this one today.

I get excited for all of them, but especially excited for this one because Eugene was one of the most interesting characters of the mid-2000s. And I've always wanted to pick Nick Din's more's brain to find out what went into the creation of this character and how he was able to get over so quickly. Because, I mean, think about it. He was a massive baby face and was very quickly put in storylines with The Rock, Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan, Vince, Triple. and so many others. And just such an interesting conversation and an interesting ride that he's been on in his life. Take a screenshot. Let us know that you're on this ride with us.

I'm at Chris Van Fleet on social media. And Nick is at you, Gene Dinsmore. That's the letter you than Gene, G-E-Dinsmore. And if it's your first time here, hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any future episodes. And, man, we've got some big ones to end the year. And look, I don't ask for much. But if you could be so kind as to leave a review if you're listening on Apple Podcasts right now,

it would be so greatly appreciated. It really helps other people find the show. This is the biggest thing that helps with the growth of the show. And I'm going to keep reading one out on every single episode until May 19th, till my birthday, till we get 2,000 reviews because that's the goal. And I just want to say thank you for being on this ride with me. This one is from Nick Young 87,

who titles this, to CVV at CVG. That's the Cincinnati airport, by the way. Hey, Chris, I'm a longtime listener of the pod. I started listening to the show in the summer of 2019 while sitting on the toilet at the Cincinnati airport in between layovers. I've now made this my weekly ritual

while traveling through airports from coast to coast. About six months ago, I started carrying a Bluetooth speaker to listen while sitting on the porcelain throne. The amount of comments I hear through the stalled doors is unbelievable. Just last week while in Las Vegas, I had a man asked me what the show I was listening to was in the bathroom. Well, that man ended up being Forrest Whitaker. He told me he was going to download the show and start listening as well.

Keep up the great work, Chris. Well, thank you, Nick. There is no way that that review is actually real, but that is awesome. That's the kind of reviews that we want to see on the show here. So thank you for crafting this incredible story. And if, you know, by some small 1% chance, that was real. Thank you for listening to the podcast

on a Bluetooth speaker while going to the bathroom in various airports across the country. You're awesome. Also, a big thank you to Cota. That's KOTA. He's on Twitter at Coda iRadio Network, WK. And we connected last year, and he was telling me all about Eugene's wrestling promotion,

Midwest All-Pro, that he started in South Dakota. I was actually a guest on Codas podcast called Uncut Live. We had a great chat there. But a huge thank you to him because he was the one who lined up this interview with Eugene, which I super appreciate it. Thank you, Coda. The original plan was to do this interview in person last year, but scheduling just it didn't come together. We weren't able to do it until now, but super grateful that we're able to do it now because it's just such a good conversation. There's a lot going on in here. And I was, yeah, I was just so

curious to find out how Nick came up with the Eugene character and what his inspirations were. And I think the fact that Nick Dinsmore is an amazing wrestler in the ring is what made Eugene so interesting. And I think that that's often overlooked how good of a wrestler Eugene actually was. Like, his matches were very good. We also talk about some of the controversy surrounding the character and some of the behind-the-scenes demons that Nick was dealing with in his own life and, you know, the time that he spent in rehab. We also talk about whether this character would work in 2020 or not. So here we go. I hope you really enjoy this one.

It's Nick Eugene Dinsmore. There he is. Nick Eugene Dinsmore. You got like a whole like wrestling man cave behind you here. Yeah, like right there is when I did that WrestleMania commercial. And then that was that cape I used to wear. And then that was my teddy bear. But I've also got these too.

You know, you know what the best part about having your own action figure is. You get to play with yourself in public. I like that you held up Doink the Clown because I don't know if everybody knows this. I don't know if everybody knows that you were Doank the Clown. Not all the time. I think Doint the Clown should be inducted into the W.W.E. Hall of Fame. It's a timeless character that has always been over. The minute he came out, instantly recognizable, smiles on faces.

And if that's what the DVD is all about, then Doink the Clown should be in the WWE Hall of Fame. And every guy that played Doink the Clown on TV that is still remaining alive should be allowed to get a... How many times were you dooint the clown? Nick. Two times. I did it on a pay-per-view and then the next Monday night or the next Tuesday, I think I did smack down. And this was before you were officially under contract. Maybe 2003. So this was kind of like one step above, you know, being an extra, basically. Yeah, they knew who I was. I've been in developmental for quite some time and I've done a conquist the door and I've been in extra work and I did some stuff. But they have to have.

at JBL's Barroom Brawl. And that's when they brought out the Easter Bunny and Dointhe Clown. And then they brought out the Brooklyn Brawler, and Brooklyn Brawler beat up Dointhe Clown. I'm so excited to have you on the show because you just have such a fascinating story. So I really appreciate you carving this time out of your day to do this. Absolutely.

And congratulations to you. Your wrestling company, Midwest All-Pro Wrestling, just turned five years old. So congrats to you on that. Yeah, I was a coach at the Performance Center in 2015. I knew I always went to run my own wrestling company. Ever since I started at OVW and kind of saw what Danny Davis did there and what the business model was, I thought, you know, I think I could do this, something I'm passionate about, something I enjoy.

So 2015, my wife and I came to Siouxville, South Dakota, where she is from, and we started Midwest All-Pro Wrestling. And you were telling me this off-camera. You're the only independent wrestling promotion in the entire state of South Dakota. Yeah, when we were thinking of moving here, I said, there's got to be some independent wrestling company there. It's like, I don't think there is. And we got here and there was nothing.

The closest one is about three hours south in Omaha. I've heard some rumors of people running various shows, but nothing really month to month, week-to-week, storyline-driven. I'm also training stars, so I've trained. I have 25 right now, but some I've trained before, so I've trained more than 25. Some quit. Some couldn't make it. Some moved on with life. But I got a good crew of about 25 or 30 guys now, and we're trying to carve out a little territory. Isn't that always the case with wrestling school? You know, you start off with a whole bunch and then it just kind of gets whittled down as the weeks and months go by. I had my first event, November 2015, and from that, I got my first two students. So our first.

following event was in February 2016. Shannon Bazler came, wrestled on the show before she was signed and I had Carlito come in. But then my first two students had their first match on that event. And so all their friends and family came and we did a big, I ripped off the Desire video. Like I told you, I loved it, you know, the whole Creed song and tailored it for them.

And from that, I got six students. So it just kept multiplying and multiplying. And I've had some guys looking for now for almost five years. So these guys have wrestled monthly, weekly, in the ring, working out, getting better. When someone walks to the doors of your wrestling school, what are you hoping that they have? What kind of skills are you hoping that they have? Well, the thing is, is I'm a business. So I want to find out what his goal is.

And then I want to help him try to achieve his goal. If his goal is to wrestle for the WWE to get a tryout, there's a certain road that we have to take. And, you know, realities might need to be faced. but regardless, there's, you know, there's an expectation when you walk into a tryout of what you need to be. If you just want to have a wrestling match and play wrestling and, you know,

I just went to, like what I did, I said, I just want to try it. I just want to experience it because I didn't want to live the rest of my life wishing that I'd, you know, tried it when I was 19 years old. So I just went and did it. And I didn't think anything of it and just, I got a little better and things came around.

Then all of a sudden I went to USWA. So that was pretty cool. So I kept wrestling. And then I did some WCW work. That's pretty cool. And then I got signed by WWE, and I was just sitting around. I never even expected to get called up to TV. When Rob Conway and I were signed, we were more like practice dummies to work with the

WVE talent. And after spending so much time helping train those talent, they finally came to me a lot. I told a story a couple times. I complained. I never complained. I was always on time, smile, whatever you know. need working extra hours, you know, but I complained. I told Doug Batchett's my friend. I said, I think I'm going to quit and try to go Japan. So Doug told, I think Dean told Johnny Ace, next day I know I'm

sitting in a meeting with Vince McMahon and Stephanie McMahon. Okay. So six months, eight, eight months prior, Rip Rogers gave me the idea for what became Eugene. What about a character that can't put a square peg in a square hole, can't tie shoes, can't, you know, do this, but Can't socialize, but the minute that he, you know, he gets into wrestling, he does it flawlessly, does it perfectly. Knows all the history, knows all the trivia. Sitting in the meeting with Vince, Vince goes, I want to get back to character-based wrestling. And I just blurted that out. He goes, great, we'll start on Monday.

Wow. So then I have to, I mean, I figure out, you know, who is Eugene? Because I was just, it was just an idea that Rip sent to me that I put no, what they would say. I know character study, no finding out what the archetype of the character is and all the things like that. It was just a blur out. So I just went out there and just started having fun.

My first match is Eugene was against Lance Cade and wasn't on TV. People never heard of me. Lance ended up shaking my hand and then clothes on me and beating me. But Eugene had made the people laugh and they dared him. And at the end of the match, I got beat,

and they chanted my name. Never been on TV. Wow. So obviously fans are very familiar with Eugene, but who was Nick Dinsmore, the wrestler, before Eugene came around? Well, like I said, when I grew up in the Louisville area, and that's where Nightmare Danny Davis settled, and he started Ohio Valley Wrestling in the Louisville, Kentucky area.

When I was 18, I said, well, I think I'm just going to try this. So I started training. Like I said, I just kind of continued on. And then when Danny Davis and WWB formed a partnership to train WWD's developmental talent, I then kind of got hired along as part of the crew. I was making, I know I was making the lowest of all the guys there. But again, I was just happy to be there. I didn't care because I was doing it for free before.

I was paying to do it before, you know. And now I'm saying, I'm making a little bit of your week. I'm like, this is great. But that whole time, as I was wrestling, I was just Nick Tinsmore. I was from Louisville, Kentucky, the pride of Louisville, Kentucky. Mr. Wrestling, cornet was the one that was the matchmaker, the Booker. the creative, and he said, you know, you can wrestle. So let's just call you Mr. Wrestling.

And it was just something that because I had Jimmy every week on TV preaching my name and putting me over and writing me in very good spots, I was the top guy, baby face, heel, and all the, you know, the main event matches, but I was Mr. Wrestling Nick Dinsmore. So you certainly owe a lot of what you accomplished early on in your career to Jim Cornett. Absolutely. To Danny Davis, to Rip Rogers and to Jim Cornett. Because Daniel was like the first one to train me in the ring. Rip was the one that I was in the ring with.

He was probably 42 at the time. He just kind of phased out of WCW. And he was in the ring with me every night and just puppeting those people. Back then, he was the athlete like a heel. He'd came to face it in the dressing room and he'd act like a heel. And he just brought to the ring and we had nothing planned. Because when all the students were one or another, we'd plan our matches out and he wouldn't talk to us. And just get out there and it looked like he was beating the heck out of everybody.

But he was the fucking most awesome, most gentle. And he's the one that taught me how to work, how to listen to the crowd, how to slow down. And just he was the one in the ring. But then Cornett was the one that wrote me as a star. It got me over in Louisville. He wrote a, I progressed going to a series of WWE talent that they would bring down, that the heel manager was bringing down to get Nick Dinsmore. I brought down Al Snow.

I get to work with Al Snow. Benoit came down and got to work with Benoit. Brian Christopher was the only one that beat me, though. That conversation you were referring to with Vince and Steph, that's when you were still in OVW. You were basically, you were kind of like seeing if they'd call your block. You were saying, look, I'm going to go somewhere else, hoping that maybe the squeaky wheel would get the grease.

Exactly. I tell that to all my guys. I'm like, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. You have to ask for it. You know, you can't be rude or you can't do it incorrect. But I was just going to, hey, I'm going to see what my options are just to see what happens, you know, because there was also a lot of things actually in Japan that were going on that were enticeful, you know, other than, you know, I love wrestling in Louisville, but I've been wrestling there for eight years by the time that I think I got called up. Wow. Eight year overnight success, Eugene was.

Did you have a plan when you started going to wrestling school at 18 years old? Did you, you know, if wrestling didn't work out, did you know what you were going to fall back on to? I was still going, I was in college. in a branch of Indiana in southern Indiana. And I graduated with a communications degree. Hey, me too. I have never once used it, but I just did it. I mean, my mother wanted me to do it, so I did it.

And it was the college I went to, it was a commuter college. So it was really just, I'm still living home, just going to school. So it was very feasible. But yeah, I got a college degree, never used it. I've just been in wrestling. I just went to it. I was drawn to it. it. And you're still in wrestling.

That's right. Now I'm promoting it. Yeah. I'm putting it out there. It's like one of those. It's one of those things. Once you get into it, you can't get out, right? Like the mafia. It's just like the mafia. When you had those original conversations with Rip Rogers when he came up with this idea for the character, what was your initial reaction to it? By that time, I'd gotten to no rip very well. And he saw me, you know, as an assistant coach, but, you know, he was also. to like a mentor, and he would just try to give me ideas every now. And what about this kind of, you know, something that you could pitch to creative,

because back then we wouldn't see the creative team twice a year, maybe. We would see an agent every week, but then they would sit like a creative guy down. It was still in the infancy of a different stage of whatever they call developmental now. So, you know, Rip would just give me ideas. And when he gave me that one, the creative team, no, no, no, the, the proof. producers came down for the first week. It was either Arn or Fitt or Dean or some of those guys, I think it was fit or Arn, I told the idea of Eugene.

And he's like, I don't think we can't do that stuff anymore. You know, that's kind of like hokey 80s shit, you know, they won't do that. Okay. So the writers came down, I pitched it to them. Like, no, we don't go in that direction. We don't do that kind of thing. That is something that we would do.

Okay. And for some reason, when I was in that meeting with Vince, I still blurted it out because that's all I had. It was the only idea had is, you know what I've been, what Mr. Wrestling's been doing and you haven't wanted it, so this is the only other thing I got, and they went for it. I don't think that they thought it would succeed. I think they thought

it would fail, because the first match I had against Lance K. was the non-televised a band. I came back through the curtain, Hunter, Stephanie, and armor on their feet. They said, you know, you gave yourself to the character. You, you, I was forget the exact word that he used.

You went at 100%. What, you weren't out there playing something in wrestling. It was just, you went for. it and they were really impressed. And then when I got on TV, I'd been wrestling for eight years. So I've made plenty of mistakes, and I've learned enough that, like, when I was there, they gave me a little bit, and I did well. They gave me a little bit, and I did better.

But plus, you know, I feel like since I worked with Rip and Rip taught me how to work the crowd, it was easy to do. And when they bid on it, I could puppet master it. Sometimes that's one of the more, I feel like one of the more difficult aspects of live performing wrestling is, is to really capture that crowd and guys try to do it and they think they know how to do it. Sometimes they don't. When you had those original conversations about the character, did it have a name? Did Eugene have a name? No, no. Actually, I went to the office and they had me shave and I did like some pre-tapes. My name is Eugene. I'm coming. And they never ended up using them.

Then they said, no, no, girl the beard back. It looks better. It looks scruffy. And then they just debuted me. But they put me as Bischoff's nephew. Yeah. Which put me in a great spot already. Gave me some credibility while I still thorned digging him. The special kid is Bishch's family. And then when they put me with Regal,

and Regal was just coming back from, I believe it was the, he had had some parasite getting his heart from India. He wrestled in India and had some really bad taking some time off. It was just coming back and Regal and I just hit it off. You know, personally, but also, you know,

but, you know, in wrestling. And he would leave me somewhere, do something, coming to do something. And when I did it, he would let me have the moment. And he would get his little, get himself over when he could. But he was awesome to be able to work with him. So where did the basis start? Like, okay, the character gets approved. Then when do you start doing your research?

Who starts to inspire this character? So I would watch some of the fans that came to OWW, some of them, younger kids. And I remember I tried to think of myself, you know, when I was a kid, how did I feel like I reacted when, you know, those pictures of me when I'm five and I'm just like clapping at a birthday party. I'm like, you know, I'm so excited or somebody really gets angry at you and it makes you scared or something embarrasses you. It might be something. And I just tried to, because up to that point, I remember Jim Rossett said, you're wrestle good, but you got the Melancho disease. You got no facials.

We can't do anything with that. Okay. So then I turned it all the way up and just, and I tried to make the biggest, ones I could. It got to a point where I was almost just like, okay, I can do the wrestling. I can do it an hour Broadway and never do the same hole twice, no sweat professional, but you want me to just be a goofball. So I just turned it up as high as I could and made every facial and everything trying to, trying to pop the guys in the locker room or the people that were there. Do you think that this character would still be able to work in the political climate that we

have right now in 2020? One thing I know about WWE is that they can almost always make anything work. You know what I mean? They can put it out there in a light that the people go, okay, and now I understand why. You know, when when Eugene first started, I didn't have my first match until two or three weeks on TV. In those first two or three weeks, some people had, and I heard like radio stations or news outlets or something were, what is the movie going to do with this character? What are they going to do? They didn't know. They didn't know, but the minute I won my first match, then they know that it's an underdog story. You know, of a boy with a dream,

wanting to be a wrestler, and he's fulfilling that dream. I think that, you know, people from the outside looking in before you wrestle a match could be worried that maybe you were making fun of people that, you know, might be special needs.

Yeah. I thought about that going in, but I just, the time, it was my opportunity, so I was going to either sink or swim on it, but I've gotten so much positive affirmation afterwards. So many people, my brother's special needs,

and he told me that he knows that he can do anything because Eugene did it. And the more times than I've ever been, you know, you're making fun of people. No, you are giving them a voice. Oh my God, there's somebody like me. That's what I want to be. That's what WWE should be. There should be a representation of every type person that there is around the world. So I can connect.

Did you think, you know, before going on TV with Eugene, did you think it'd be controversial? At that point, I was starting to get into the machine and just, it starts going and, you know, then weeks start going by. And really it's just a surreal time that you jump on the train and it just starts taking off. And you really don't have time to sit back and reflect and then see how people react and say, oh, maybe I shouldn't do that or something. It was like, let's go. And we're going with it.

Yeah. When you look at some of the actors that have played special needs characters in movies, who do you think has done a really great job at that? I don't know if it's a great job, but the Johnny Knoxville's movie was funny. Yeah. where he entered the Special Olympics, you know, that was pretty funny. But the comparison was, was Rain Man. That was like, you know, we want you to be the Rain Man of wrestling.

Because in my head, Rayman just looked like a dude, but he had a mind that could do anything. Yeah. And that's what Eugene was supposed to be because there was a layer of the character that never really got exposed. But that was, he was supposed to have, no, all the trivia. If there was ever a trivia question put out there, that he'd answer in 1962, you know, and then have all the answers. And it's part of the character that I think never really got developed, but that was in the idea.

I guess what comes to mind for me is Tropic Thunder. And I'm sure you know where I'm going with this with Ben Stiller's character, Simple Jack. And he says, like, you never go all the way with it. Would you say that there's some truth to that? I don't know. I don't know because I had to go all the way with it, you know, because I had to immerse myself in the character.

And if you've seen the Jim Carrey Netflix, where he talks about being Andy Kaufman. And he said, when they wanted him to do the REM video, he couldn't do it because it had gone. It was a time in his life that he just something opened up. That's what happened for me. And now I can raise my voice and be goofy and do comedy wrestling. But whoever Eugene was, that was an opening in my life,

a time of magic that was just like right there. And it was surreal. But I don't have it now. I can open it back up. Were you Eugene all the time on? camera and off camera? Absolutely, yeah. Really? I would travel with William Regal and Tujeri. So it was like Barma Bailey's circus. Tegeri and Regal had their jokes back and forth. And then throw Eugene in the mix. And I would drive and I'd come in the parking lot, half swerving,

and I'd jump out and Tadjuri would act like he's selling and Regal come out like he's having the heart attack. And I'd say, I just got my permit. My permit. I'd run in the building real quick. And all the fans, yay. So you could, I mean, right now, could you just turn, Eugene on like that? That's like I said, man. It was a time then, you know, I can remember it, but sometimes I don't have that focus, I guess. Do you still wrestle as Eugene now?

As Midwest All-Pro owner, I have to be, you know, somewhat more of a stern character, but everyone knows that I'm former Doeo to be superstar Eugene. When I get in the ring, they chant Eugene. But it's a little evolved. my intellectual property of the Eugene character has been signed away. So this is a new different kind of character. He's sometimes called Eugene.

Yeah, U-Dash Gene, yes, yes. I've never been complained about it. I think there's a real lesson to be learned here, though. You were eight years in developmental, eight years in OVW, you know, trying to find your way. And then you saw your opening. You saw this door that was slightly ajar. You jammed your foot into this door and made that door open wide up for you.

I think that there's a real lesson there to be learned that you should take the opportunities that come to you, even if maybe they don't look like how you thought they'd look. Well, I looked at the product at the time. The brands were split. They had hurricane, and I believe Rosie was with him on Smackdown, but they didn't have a kid's character. They didn't have a comedy, a selling, you know, I'm always, you know, everybody wanted to, to be the NWO or Austin at that point. Everybody wanted to be cool and strong and do big and be on the attack.

And I wanted to do comedy and be sympathetic. You know, that's the role that they didn't have. So it played right. It played perfectly. And then the fact that Brian Gerwitz, he was the one that wrote it, the writer, was phenomenal. Like he goes, I can write for that and just started and that was it. Boom, boom, boom. He actually wrote a movie for Eugene.

Really? Yeah. Where's the movie? They put big show in it. Oh, wow. I don't know that knucklehead is the exact script that he wrote for Eugene, but I think some of it is very similar, and the story is very similar.

So when you got the okay from Vince to go forward with this character, it sounds like you had like less than a week to actually figure out the nuts and bolts of us. Yeah, yeah, like I said, the only time I did it was in St. Louis, with Lance, and then we just went live on TV. But then when you, you know, I watched your debut recently, and you nailed it.

I mean, the Eugene that we saw in your debut really wasn't that different from the Eugene we saw years after that. Like, you had, you'd hone that character so perfectly. Yeah, I don't know. It just happened. I just, I went into it. I was like, I just got to become whatever this childlike character is going to be. You know, I had to have the emotion of, in my head. That was it. You know, like, like, naive emotion. And you caught on with fans so quickly. What was the, like, what were some of the initial reactions that you?

you had from fans where you really thought, okay, what I'm doing here is really working? Like I said, the first match, the fans are cheering for me. But when they put me in the ring with the Rock, that elevated me, like, oh, my God. It was like, then people knew who I was. And then fans really got endeared to me

because I was the Rock's friend. They liked Eugene, and he was funny, and he was building. But that was like, you know, they just put it over the top. It went from a slow build to, oh, my God, you're a top guy now. You're made. Yeah, what were the steps to take

to get there. Like, you seem to have a pretty fast rise. I mean, but it was a character that was different. Yeah. Ryan to write for it. Yeah. So they just started featuring it. And then I had, you know, a lot of guys that start now don't have, excuse me,

a lot of guys that start now don't have the eight years experience that I had. Because I had eight years of very good experience, you know, very good training. And whenever I was given an opportunity, I would usually nail it. Because they would limit the amount. that I could do, thinking that the green guy's going to mess it up, and I would just nail it. So then they just commit a little more and a little more. And I'd been a top guy in Louisville for six years,

so I knew how to wrestle like a top guy. So the fact that they put me right in there with Triple H. Yeah. And guys like Kurt Angle, Cornangle wanted to wrestle with Eugene. Wow. And he beat Kurt Angle. He had a storyline written for it where he was going to do something

and his teeth were going to get, because this is before he put in the mouthpiece, to lead to the mouthpiece. He's got something where he busted his teeth and he had to have his mouth wired shut. And then they knew that the Olympic champion and then Eugene was going to show up at the airport and they're waiting for him, the two limo drivers.

And Eugene comes out after he won the medal with the gold medal. Well, that must be the Olympic champion, puts him in the limo and takes off. And Ango comes out with his mouth wired and bumps his toe or something and starts screaming. You can't. And so they put the head and put him in the bus and boom, he's out. And it was all this funny stuff that was really good.

But at the time, they wanted to build Kurt as a killer to work with Sina. So they limited the amount of comedy and made him pretty mean and vicious. What was it like working with the Rock, both in the ring and behind the scenes? So, like, I showed up that day, that Monday. We were in San Diego. And Silvan Grunier comes up to me, one half of La Resistance and goes, they're going to bring the Rock in to be with you tonight. I was like, no, they're not.

No, that's ridiculous. No, that's not going to happen. You're rid of me. But I wouldn't believe it. So as a day, kind of gone on, they came and said, yeah,

he might show up. So I figured, well, he won't. It's not going to happen. And it got right to it, and he showed up, and then we had the one segment,

but I had, I think, seven segments, so, or maybe four. And I was running around doing different things, and I would go back

because he was working with Brian on the stuff that we were talking about. And I had the one line. You know, whatever, Triple Age, who's your favorite wrestler? And I missed it every time.

Every time in practice, we run through it. And my guy, I'm just every time I'm flubbing it in the ring, live on TV, I had no idea where we were again, and I would have flubbed it. And he just walked around as the people are chanting. He just walks by me and goes, here's your line, kid, and then says it and let it right to me and fed it to me. I mean, just put it, spoon fed it to me. And it's like, that made me.

That 15 seconds. Wow. Who would you say is the best person that you stepped into the ring with? I mean, AAA. is called the ring general, you know, and he's given the, he made his way because he's really good. He's really good in the ring. I mean, he's really, I mean, and it was, it reminded me of the way that I used to work with Rip, because Rip could puppet those people and work slow and be mean and have those people, you know,

suspend that disbelief and bite in and get hot and Triple H can work the same way at slow pace and then feed somebody for a comeback. It's very similar. I think it's safe to say a lot of things have changed. in 2020, including how we work. Businesses across the globe now are challenged to be their most efficient, which means every hire is critical. Indeed is here to help. Indeed is the number one job site in the world with more visits than any other job site. Indeed helps you find quality candidates quickly so you can focus on hiring the person you need to keep your business going.

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That's bluewire, all one word at betonline.org. Bet online, your online sportsbook experts. You were also in the ring with Hogan. I mean, we mentioned Kurtang. You beat Kurt Angle. I was in the ring with Sina. I helped work out with him. I was in the ring with the ring with Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania 21 to have my

WrestleMania moment. It's tough to say what's the best of them all. Did you ever think that Eugene could be, I mean, you were a tag team champion, but did you ever think Eugene could be a singles champion? I don't know. I didn't know. I mean, the thing is that Eugene didn't need it. Yeah.

You know, I mean, I could have been. They could have written some story. but you know Eugene to me was the character much like a George Steele or a bushwhackers that wrestle for three or four months and then come off and come back and oh my gosh hey they're back

and just a little rotating comedy a Santino type role do you think you could come back again now like maybe a surprise appearance of the Royal Rummel? My lawyers told me that I cannot confirm or deny that I'm currently in contract negotiations to come back for a limited number of dates

I think what's really interesting is it took you a while to find the Eugene character and hone it in and it looked the way that it did on TV. Was it hard on the flip side to find Nick again? No, because that's just that, I mean, that was, but actually they're both very natural. Eugene is a sense of, like I said, that raw, naive, youthful innocence. Yeah. I was just trying to hone in on that. and what was right and what's right and what's wrong in the purest sense.

And then I feel like I'm pretty much the same way, although I have to sometimes come out of that little bubble of Camelot where it's magical. So a lot of Eugene is really just who you are? For me, I feel like if someone is going to do a gimmick in wrestling, I'm not going to say actors because I don't know the process they would go through, but it has to be some part of you that you can really immerse yourself in. The guy that, like I could say, you're going to be a fireman and you're going to be

a bank robber. But if these people don't know how to do these characters, it's not going to be, it's not going to work. But if you know everything about snakes, if you're a snake hand, learn a snake breeder, that might be the guy to put the snake with, you know? Yeah. Except in that example, Jake, the snake, I think, didn't like snakes at all to begin with. Riegel's the only should have brought out a snake after a while. Is that right? Because he's got, he's got, In his house, he's got a big herpard quarrying with all these snakes. And he had some in Colorado. We wrestled in Colorado and we went to the snake farm because they were breeding them.

And I'm holding, I'm freaking out. And he's like, he's like loving it. He's the one should have come running this night. Wow. What did I think of that before? What would you say is the best advice that you got in your wrestling career? I don't know. I mean, because it was like an education.

It wasn't like one piece of advice. It was like slowly. Rip, to help us learn, he would do something that we knew we were going to mess up. And then he would blow off the handle and get mad and come back. And he'd pull me aside. Sometimes we wouldn't pull other guys aside. He pulled me aside and say, this is what you did wrong. You should have done this.

You should have done this. Do you know why? Okay. And then the fact that I could generally only make a mistake once, I could learn it, was then, you know, I just kept getting better and kept getting better. There's something I felt. I don't know. With how over Eugene was and.

It was just such a lovable character. Did you think that there was ever any reason that you would be released from WWE? I mean, I don't know. I wasn't thinking about it. But I guess because at one point I lived in Louisville. I moved to Phoenix for a couple of years as I was Eugene. And then I was phasing back into a coaching job at OBW. So I moved back to Louisville.

So, yeah, I was intending on moving into the coaching side of it, which I did that eventually at the performance. Center. So I think I've had maybe 12 to 14 total years working for them. Wow. You were a trainer at NXT, right, in the Performance Center for a year. When they moved from FCW to Orlando to the Performance Center, I was in the first group. I was one of the coaches and I was coached for maybe a year and a half. Why didn't that end up lasting longer? I don't know.

I just know that I probably wasn't putting out my best performance because I was in an environment where I was uncomfortable. And I was uncomfortable because, I mean, these were people that I looked up to that I was in there with. Terry Taylor, there was dusty roads. There was triple H sitting next to me. And I would get nervous sometimes. And I might just be quiet and assist the situation. But I'm not really putting out a lot. And I feel like in that environment, you've got to be on and go.

going. And I would kind of sit back and I would make, I knew what was going on. And I was aware. I was just, I was just, my mouth shut. My ears were open. Right. And that might not have been the situation for it. Um, I love the, the coaching aspect of it.

Didn't necessarily care for the producer aspect of it. But it was a great, um, education to see the tools that these guys are given now. And what they're expecting of WWE superstars today, you know, the fact that I, I got to teach that and coach that and I still got the manuals and all that. So I know what they're looking for. I feel like I do. But it's an ever-changing process. So this was 2014, 2015.

Who were some of the talent that you were in there with? So Ron Strowman started in my class. Chad Gable started in my class. I worked with Charlotte. I worked with Social Banks. Right before I got released is when, Finn Baller and Kevin, Kevin Owens were hired, and they were sent to the Performance Center.

And like the first month that somebody comes to the Performance Center, they generally don't let them participate in, well, when I was there, when we did, they didn't let them go in ring. The first month was get yourself settled, find out what's going on, and then we'll get you in there. And so Kevin Owens is sitting ring side because you're just watching the class. I sit down next to him, talking to him. And he said, like, I think the first time,

he ever wrestled was for Jacques Rougeau, I think is what he said. He kind of, he acted like somebody else really helped train him, but I think he's for some reason the first show was Jack Rujo, so a couple days ago by, come back, I said, they got a character for you. They're going to bring him in as the new

Mountie. And he was starting to cry. I mean, you can't let him do that. I can't do that. I said, no, it would be great. It's going to be awesome. You're going to, you're going to, you're going to have the red thing. They might even bring Jacques in for you. It's going to be great. And he's like, it was beginning to panic. I need to say it didn't happen. I mean, what are you doing those situations where you're pitched a character that maybe you don't believe in

or maybe you don't want to do? You do it. You're going wholehearted. How can I make the best of what I'm given? You can always say, I'm not going to do that. You have that option. But unless you've got a really good reason, that generally is, okay, who can do it? I can.

I'm over-prepared. Right. So it's a matter of, yeah, it's a matter of who's willing to step up at that time. There was a story about a particular WrestleMania where there was a match. We need to cut a match and we need you guys to go four minutes. I can't have a match in four minutes. Okay, who can? I can. Okay, go. Wow. That was it. One guy was in and one guy was out. This reminds me a little bit of the story. I just had Chava Guerrero on.

And he was telling me the story of how Kerwin White was pitched to him. And he's like, I didn't really want to do it. And I wanted to be on TV. And I knew that this character would be on TV. So it's like, I'm going to take it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do the best that I can with it. You've got to admit yourself wholeheartedly and just accept the character and make it for what it is.

Which is exactly what you did with Eugene. Yay. Yeah. There's a little bit of Eugene right there. Yeah. That's, that's, there's, there's definitely still some Eugene and you for sure. Yeah. What you're going to do, brother?

So now that you know what WWE is looking for, when you're training your own students now, how does it affect the training that you have? Well, like I said, if there's been several guys that have come to me and says, you know, I want to get a tryout. So, okay, I try to prepare them to be most ready for that situation. I feel like sometimes the trial process is made to make people feel uncomfortable to see how you react to that stress. So sometimes you can't replicate the environment,

but we can try to replicate the cardio level at what you need to be. So that's, I've heard that that's one of the biggest things about the tryouts is the cardio. It's intense. And you're probably not even wrestling for the first several days, are you? I think some of them, even the guys aren't even trained. So they don't wrestle at all. No way. I don't know for sure.

Again, I'm not there currently. Yeah, yeah. They had some tryouts for guys that had wrestled and they had some tryouts for people that had not wrestled at all. Yeah, wow. So there's a lot of running and exercises and trying to do roles. And you get some of these big guys that aren't, you know, haven't perfected how to do a role.

And you're trying to hustle and through it, it becomes painful and agitating. Yeah. With the current situation going on right now in the world, what does Midwest All-Pro look like with COVID? Well, South Dakota, I think I believe we only have, I could be wrong, 480,000 people in the state. Sioux Falls has 172,000 people in the city area,

so there's not a lot of people, although we are now a hot spot. They have not yet shut anything down. Even when the shutdown, we had to stop wrestling. All the live events had to stop. But as it slowly picked back up, our Republican state has been fairly open. So although it has hindered attendance, it necessarily only for about three months hindered putting on shows and training. I counted the other day. I've been to a lot of different states, and I counted the other day.

I've been to 33 states, and the Dakotas are not, they're not included there. Well, this is a thing. So if I made a trip to South Dakota, what do I need to see when I'm there? So I'll probably come in a July and you come out to see them out Rushmore. You know, if you want to go to Sturgis, there's always wall drug, which is like promoted for miles and miles. Come to Wall Drug. But then, of course, you'd have to come to Sioux Falls, the best little city in America, and you'd have to come to a Midwest All for Wrestling Show, and we have generally July show is probably one of our bigger shows,

usually outdoors in the sun. All right, this is it. Next July, I'll be there. I'll book it. Okay. Speaking of Mount Rushmore, I get asked this question a lot, and I'm curious to hear what your Mount Rushmore for wrestling is. We've done this before, right?

Okay, here we go. I feel like you have to put Vince on there. Ooh. And that throws everything off, because everybody's through the four guys, but you got to put Vince on there. You can't not put Vince on there. I think you got to put Hogan on there. Yeah. And then it's like, for me, it's Rock Austin Sina.

Oh, wow. Rock Austin Sina for getting over and drawing attendance. And, you know, if we're in a business to make money, those guys have drawn the money. Wow. That's a great point. Yeah. I always leave the Rock as number, and Rock's my favorite wrestler of all. time. I always have him as number five. He's the honorable mention because I argue that Rock has become

a bigger star since wrestling. Rock only wrestled for like seven years or something like that. He's become a bigger star since wrestling. And then I replaced that spot with The Undertaker. Always difficult decision. I mean, that's the thing. To narrow down to just more, it's so hard. It was actually supposed to be a bigger construction so we can actually start adding heads like Donald Trump I have heard that the actual Mount Rushmore is smaller than you would think it is. Yeah, it's built into them. It's beautiful, but it's not as big as you would think. I heard on some historical reenactments that the whole sculpture was bigger,

but they got kind of started, and I don't know if they ran out of funding or the guy died or they just switched. I mean, it's Mount Rushmore. It's like Grand Canyon. You look at it. You're like, wow, this is amazing. And then you go, what's the Grand Canyon? That's like the Chevy Chase scene, right?

Like, well, there are. Well, the bad lands. Also, the badlands are there around the Sturgis and Deadwood. You have to go to Deadwood. It's almost like country western Las Vegas. It's phenomenal there. That's definitely a place to go. Well, I look forward to going there in 2021.

I will be heading. I've been many places, you know. I've been to 21 countries. I've been to all 50 states. I've been to Kalamazoo, Kathmandu, Timbuktu, Rancho Cucamonga, and Lake Tiddy Cacca. And I've learned two things, two things. Number one is, you play with yourself in public sometimes.

I don't know the rest of the dose going to be. And number two, the best little city in America is Sioux Falls. Yeah. Midwest All-Pro! Definitely didn't think we'd be getting a promo for Sioux Falls. This is fantastic. Somebody's got to do it, right? I love it.

I was hoping we would get more publicity when Our Truth said Sioux Falls City. They weren't even in the area, I believe, but people do confuse Sioux City, Iowa, and Sioux Falls, South Dakota. I got you. Do you think your WWE career might have looked different if you hadn't had some of the issues that you had behind the scenes? Well, absolutely, absolutely. You know, right at the beginning of the wellness program, I failed the test, and it got me fired pretty much right away. like now, before when I was on the road, it was three fires, but, you know, they had sent me to rehab when I came back.

And I don't know, it was a difficult road. It was a different time. But then when I got rehired in 2009, I probably wasn't in the shape that I should have been in. And so when I came back, it was like, ah, we'll pass. Do you think when you got rehired in 2009, the way you were booked was maybe sort of like, a punishment for what you had done before?

I wasn't booked. That was just it. I mean, they hired me, and I showed up. And I said, oh, well, Vince didn't like the way Eugene looked, so it was out. And that was it? Yep. Wow. Well, then they put me on, they called me, they called me and said, oh, we won't you

have come to Canada. So I had to go to, the, uh, wrestle the Calgary kid who was Ms. And then, like, Eugene had been on TV in, whatever, three years, two years. Just bring you back for a contract on the pole max that he loses. That was it. Wow. When you were sent to rehab, were you ready to go or did you just kind of go because you knew it's what you had to do to save your job? It's a tough decision.

Looking back now, I don't know if I should have went or because I had learned that, you know, many people have a ton of problems. And I had a problem and some people are sicker than others. But it was just financially. I ended up, you know, quitting all that much later, going to a different doctor in Louisville who helped me through taking Suboxin, which was a godsend. And I came off a bit much easier than trying to go there.

And then it hurt me financially, absolutely. Because you weren't with WWE? Well, I mean, even when I was, I wasn't making the money. And then when I came back on TV, they would bring you to TV. and it was a long time before they really kind of got me going again, and I never really picked up. So what, I mean, what actually happens when you go to rehab?

Is it like cold turkey? Like, you're done? You can't do this anymore? For people who are the worst addicts, the basic prescription is, you know, don't do drugs, don't drink, don't gamble, don't, if it's, whatever that vice is, whatever emotionally that we have inside of us, that the symptom is coming out as me being obsessed on something,

thing, people who do hoarding in their houses, people that do hoarding, it's that same kind of obsession of, you know, and it's just, and out of control, they say it's a disease. Some people say it's a choice, but it's a difficult thing that people live with. I mean, I'll still have a glass of wine today, but back then we were also wrestling really hard, and I'd had a knee surgery. I had a torn patella. I was trying to come back from that, so I was heavy, you know, to taking the opiates and the pain pills to cover the pain. And that's when they were. put me in an angle with Kurt Angle. So I'm trying to keep up with him on one leg after surgery.

So I probably didn't allow myself long enough to heal. And it just kind of, I was trying to mask it by taking whatever it is that I took, you know, just the opiates that they were prescribing. This was also in the pre-education on opiates era. Well, this was back in the people that are now filing lawsuits against those companies for the doctors pushing them, which at the time, I mean, That was the answer. You're here, take this.

Yeah. Little did you know, you're trying to keep up with Kurt Engel, who was doing the exact same stuff? If you watch our match at SummerSlam, you can tell that I'm not 100% because he's like shooting me across the ring and I can't even run. I couldn't keep up with him,

but I couldn't run at all. But crazy that you're trying to keep up with Kurt Angle in the ring, who's, you know, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, you probably weren't even aware that he also was a dick. at the same time. I think everybody in the back was aware of what was going on

because it was always one locker room. Nobody really dug into anybody's business, but the guys that kind of were familiar would end up paling around every now and then or whatnot. It was some people that were very quiet about whatever they did or didn't do, but because we were a crew that we were together all the time for a long time, you know, and we just got to know each other. And you seem to be in a much better place.

now in spite of all this? Well, I mean, and like, I don't know that I was in a bad place then. Oh, okay. I was just having to do what I had to do to keep following the dream, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah.

And then it was, Eddie had passed away. And then the scene was, see, what happened was, we were in England, I believe we were in Manchester at the hotel. I'd taken some sleeping medicine, got my, the food sent up to me, so I had the tray,

and I'm going to set the tray outside the door, and the door shuts on me, and I left my key in there. I'm in my boxer shorts. So I have to go down to the front desk. Well, the bar was right there, and everybody was in the bar. All the fans, all the agents, Triple H is in the bar,

and I'm halfway to it and just collapsed, and that was it. So they put me out a luggage cart, taking out an ambulance, And after that, then it was like, okay, you have to go talk to the, you have to have a vacation. Wow. But then shortly after that is when they started the wellness policy. Right. It's a much better thing, but it's also education.

We know that opiates can lead to a certain end, but also education on now we have to train our bodies differently. We can't try to be a bodybuilder and wrestle. So we have to try to work out to be durable and to take the amount of shock that the body is going to have to take, which is what they do at the Performance Center. They train very differently than back then when I was coming up because everybody wanted to be a bodybuilder. Yeah.

That's not necessarily the best way to train. Right. I feel like if you weren't in your boxers, this situation would have been very different. What do you do, man? You know, makes for a good story. It's a hell of a story. And then so the wellness policy was mostly because of what happened with Chris Benoit, right?

No, no, Chris is still alive. Eddie. Eddie passed away. Right. And then I got the issue in England. And then shortly after they started it. Yeah. But, I mean, it's been taken care of.

It made the locker room better because, I mean, and it's not like there was a huge problem there. but as many people learned, opiate started to take effect on everybody in society. Yeah. And it was just a pandemic that we're in now, you know, that we've created. Right. It's unfortunate because it was at a time when doctors would push that and it was okay. It was okay. You get from the doctor and then you start to figure out, you know, the stuff.

Yeah. It might be a little bit more dangerous than we're giving it the liberty of. Right. How much wrestling do you watch now? I probably watch wrestling every day, but I'll probably watch wrestling every day, but I'll watch old wrestling because I want to watch to see what the guys that I liked back then

did in certain matches or I watch, you know, I want to work this week in training on being a vicious heel so I'll watch Arne Anderson or Fit Finley, a lot of that. I want to work on being a baby face. So I watch Brad Armstrong, nonstop, which is awesome. You know, I've got a guy that he's going to wear a Japanese mask, so I'm going to watch Great Muda

and guys like that to just kind of get a sense of of things that we might better draw upon. The best ideas are stolen. Always. History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes, I think, is the phrase I've heard. This might be difficult to answer, but if you had a go-to match that you were going to put on, what's that match for you? Well, you have the main event of WrestleMania.

I don't know. I don't care who it's against. Well, I'll ask my students when they come in. I'll ask them, what's the greatest match of all time? and everybody gives all their different answers. And then I usually come back with what has drawn the most money. If we're a business that's trying to make money, we're going to find the greatest by the matches that have drawn the most money

or the most people. So you could say, you know, the most people in a building, most people, you know, in an open arena, most people on pay-per-view, most people in attendance, most money, biggest gate, you know, biggest pay-per-view gate. There's a couple different factors, but there's been guys in history, that have said that Claire and Antonio Onoki drew 250,000 people in North Korea.

I don't know. So what's the biggest draw then? Is it Rock Hogan? I think it was, if I'm not wrong, Triple H and Roman Raines in Dallas. Oh, right. Yeah, AT&T Stadium, WrestleMania 32. I could be wrong, I think that that. So we're going to, yeah.

One of those categories, and one of those categories, it exceeded everything else. But Roxena also might have drawn the most people maybe before that, or maybe they drew the most money. I don't know all the facts. Right. I just know that if we're trying to make money, if we're trying to draw people, that's how we've got to define what we're looking for. We've got to find our goal as business part of professional wrestling. The artist, the performance part, is something completely different. Yeah.

I guess at the end of the day, it's a business. and you are looking at this definitely from a business standpoint. It is. But if people are going to be drawn on the performance, you also have to be a good performer. I liken live pro wrestling to being like a stand-up comedian. If you go out there and you start doing your bit and people aren't laughing,

you have to be good enough in the room to find out what these people want to hear, what they want to laugh at, and then be able to tell those jokes. You have to be able to switch gears. Because if you keep going with your material, It's Yeah. So what do you, I mean, what kind of advice would you have now

for people who are wrestling in arenas where there are literally zero people in there and there's no reaction to feed off of? Well, I think it's a little bit different time now because the pay structure for WB guys, it might be a little bit different with the network and less pay-per-views and wrestling in front of no people.

If those guys are content with what they're making, then go for it. If you want to be that pro-wrestling superstar that we all grew up watching, the business is very different now. You can still do it, but sometimes it's not as lucrative. Yeah, it's definitely a different business from the one that you grew up in, isn't it? I mean, from when I watched it as a kid to when I got into wrestling, to now it's a multi-billion dollar media company that tours the world and sells merchandise.

Well, that's on one side of things. That's the WWE side of things. But then you've got this whole other side of impact wrestling, Ring of Honor, or AEW New Japan, that is not the multi-billion dollar media company. Absolutely. Like I said, like those places where people can make themselves stars, they can make whatever they want, they're sometimes given a lot more leeway. And I'm not going to say, I'm not going to say anyone else is probably not having fun.

Those guys are probably having fun. Those guys are loving it because you can tell them the performance. If you go out there and you're having a good time and whatever it is on your face and you're into it, the people are going to be into it. Yeah. Guys, the people that are uncomfortable in the ring, sometimes it comes out more times than not. But those guys usually look like they're having a good time.

So the fans have a good time. But you look like you're always having a good time whenever we see you in the ring. That's how you can do, right? That's what it's all about. Yeah. I always say it's important to be grateful. And in fact, I say, be great, be grateful. And I want to end this interview.

I end every interview by asking you, what are three things that you're grateful for? in your life right now? Oh, I'd have to say my health, although as I'm getting older, it feels like it's getting limited, but definitely for my health, for my wife, and for the family around me that supports me for Sioux Falls, absolutely for Sue Falls, because they've accepted this dream that I have of running a pro wrestling territory. They've taken a sin wholeheartedly, and, you know, just the life in which I've lived,

I'm thankful for that because it's been an incredible journey. I don't regret anything. Yeah. Where can people find out more info about Midwest AllPro? Midwest AllPro. Midwest AllPro.com is our website. At Midwest AllPro is our Twitter. We got the Facebook.

We got the Instagram. We have the YouTube channel, which I love YouTube. So I run the Midwest All Pro YouTube channel, and I run the Nick Densmore YouTube channel, which I've got a lot of Nick Densmore matches. And then Eugene is at U-G-E-E-S-E-E. Densmore, D-I-N-S-M-O-R-E for the Twitter. I do have an Instagram, but I don't use Instagram.

I got to a point where I'm out. You're like, I've just listed off 10 other things. I don't need to add one other thing to that. When Instagram started, I was over social media. You know what I mean? And I think a lot of people grabbed Twitter and really like it, and it's very successful, but I'm like, I just, I can't do another one. I'll do me what's all pro Facebook.

I do Midwest all pro Twitter. my Twitter. I have a Facebook. I don't post a whole lot, but I don't want to do another one. Nick, I want to say thank you for, this has been a great conversation. And I want to acknowledge you for taking a character and running with it. Not everybody would have been able to do with that. And not only did you run with it, you made it a super successful character. So I want to acknowledge you for that. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. It's been an incredible journey. It was a magical time. It has allotted me to keep performing wrestling as a for a living, so I'm thankful for that.

Well, I'm thankful for this conversation. So again, Eugene, Nick Dismore. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Well, there you go. Nick Eugene Dinsmore, and a huge thank you to him for such an insightful, in-depth look at the creation of that character.

And again, thank you to Coda from the podcast Uncut Live for connecting us together and making this interview happen. And, you know, Eugene is an example like Hurricane or Super Rosie or any number of other characters where if you commit fully to the character and you are the character rather than just playing the character that people actually get invested into it with you. And again, you can find Nick on Twitter at the letter U-G-E-Dinsmore, U-G-E-Dinsmore. And while we're talking about commitment, because that seems to be, you know, the most

important thing in getting your character over in wrestling. I can't help but think of this quote from the author, Neil Strauss, who says, without commitment, you cannot have depth in anything. And think about that, without committing to a relationship, you can't have depth in it, without committing to a job, you can't have depth and really, you know, go as far as you want in that job. Again, without commitment, you cannot have depth in anything. This was such a deep conversation.

I loved it. So I hope you enjoyed it as well. Be great. Be grateful, my friends. Have a great week. And we will see you on the next one. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why?

Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here.

The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.