Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Excalibur explains his mask, AEW commentary, advice from Jim Ross, favorite calls, Cody, PWG

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

AEW commentator Excalibur sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Chicago, IL. He talks about the origins of his mask, starting his career as a wrestler, being one of the founding members of PWG (Pro Wrestling Guerrilla), how he started doing commentary, his influences growing up, who his favorite wrestlers were, his behind the scenes job in AEW, what he has learned from working with Jim Ross and Tony Schiavone, his favorite calls and more!   Thanks as always to our sponsor Bet Online! Use the code BLUEWIRE at BetOnline.ag to get a 50% welcome bonus on your first deposit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Look at you, man. With the powerful questions. Woo! This is the Chris Van Vleet Show. Chris Van Vleet Show. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris The! Welcome back to an unbelievable

episode of the Chris Van Fleet Show. See what I did there? This episode is brought to you by Bet Online, and what an honor. What a privilege to sit down with one of the voices of AEW. I feel like there's not a lot out there about Excalibur. I mean, he does wear a mask,

but who is the man behind that mask? Why does he wear the mask? We dig into all of this here. Please take a screenshot. Tag me at Chris Van Fleet. Tag Excalibur. He's at Shut Up Excalibur. Seriously, that's his name on Twitter.

Shut up Excalibur. And last week, you guys were amazing at leaving these reviews on Apple Podcast. We had a huge boost last week. So thank you for that. And if you're listening to this on an iPhone, please take six seconds to take it out of your pocket and leave a five-star review if you haven't yet. Thank you to everyone who has left it. The specific goal for this year is a thousand reviews on Apple Podcasts.

We're up to 740. And March just began. So thank you. I'm going to keep reading one on the show until we get to that specific goal of a thousand reviews. Because you know, vague goals get vague results. Specific goals get specific results. That would make a great t-shirt, wouldn't it? Well, vague goals and vague results.

Pro Wrestling teas.com slash Chris Van Fleet. You can grab one there. Please leave a review like this one from King Rue 2 in Ireland. The title of this is, excellent podcast, number one in the world. Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but I appreciate it. Thank you so much. This is by far the best wrestling podcast that's out there today. Chris takes the time.

not only to listen, but he lets them speak their mind. Thanks, listening from Ireland. Well, thank you. That's very kind. I just, look, I love the fact that I get to share this with you guys and that I get to do this at all. But it's mind-blowing to me that we can live in a world where I can have these conversations in a hotel room, like this chat with Excalibur, just the two of us in a hotel room. And boom, click a couple buttons, put this out into the world, and we can all listen to it together. And for a lot of people, the first time that you heard Excalibur was all in September 2018.

And if you were like me, you're like, ooh, this guy's good. And then when they showed him on the screen, you're like, oh, this guy's wearing a mask. Which then, of course, leads to, why is this guy wearing a mask? Who is this guy? And if you are familiar with Excalibur, you'll know that he used to be a wrestler. He's one of the founders of PWG, poor wrestling guerrilla. the massive indie federation in Los Angeles where so many stars have gone through.

And now he's the voice of AEW, along with Tony Chivani and Jim Ross, where he told me that he's learned a ton from working with those legends. And while Excalibur was working in PWG as a wrestler, he became the voice for PWG as well, and then transitioned out of just the wrestling and into strictly the broadcasting after a few injuries there.

So this is why he has such an interesting. in-depth knowledge of all of the moves. And you'd be surprised to hear the wrestling that he grew up watching and who his broadcasting influences are. They are not who you'd expect them to be. So here we go. Give it up, my friend, for Excalibur. I'm sitting with a masked man right now.

And nothing strange about that. Two grown men in a hotel room, one of them wearing a mask. Thank you for taking the time to do this. We had talked about making an interview, you know, doing an interview for a while. So here we are, make it happen. My pleasure. It's always happy to talk. And it's great to hear your voice and see you a little bit on Wednesday nights.

You're just doing an incredible job on Dynamite. Thank you. I mean, it's, it's a dream come true. But my father-in-law asked me at Christmas, he said, so is this your dream job? And I said, well, technically no, because I never dreamt that a job like this could exist. You didn't dream that big. Yeah. Yeah.

And so, I mean, like, yes, it is my dream job, but no, it's not because I would have never dreamt about doing this. Because, you know, for the longest time, it was just WWE or nothing. Those were really your only options. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's been, it's been awesome. So I think for people who might be, you know, just getting familiar with you over the last year or so, you've got to explain your mask. Well, it may shock people to learn that I used to wrestle professionally. I started in Southern California where there is a big Lucha Libre tradition, you know, just being

north of Mexico, and Lucha Libre being the Mexican style of professional wrestling. And masks are very prevalent not only in Lucha Libra, but all facets of Mexican culture. It's part of their, you know, their cultural mythology, basically. And so I took a shine to Lucha for two reasons. One, because it's grown up, I was a big comic book fan. And so there was, you know, the superhero-esque aspect of it. And two, I just like the athleticism of Lucha and that style of wrestling more than what was kind of happening in like the mid-90s in WWF or WCW at the time. And so that led me down a road where then I discovered the Japanese version of Lucha where all these wrestlers would come over from Japan.

They were usually junior heavyweight style wrestlers. and they would come home from Japan, train in Mexico, and then go back to Japan. And they started their own promotion. It's called Universal Pro Wrestling. Grant Hamada was the one that started it. And that promotion had the very early incarnations of the great Saske, Super Delphin, Takamichinoku, ghetto, Jado, Ultimo Dragon, you know, like all these guys who would go on to be some of the greatest junior heavyweights. And so that, when I saw that, and I was like, oh, my God, that's even better than Lucha because it's taking. some of the harder-hitting aspects of the Japanese style, marrying it with, like, this athleticism.

And that really is, like, my sweet spot for professional wrestling. So, you know, a lot of guys will talk about, like, oh, I remember when, you know, Austin and Rock did X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, oh, no, I remember when, you know, they had the most amazing six-man match at Michioku Pro is the kind of, you know, and, like, that really is my sweet spot. And so that's, um, You know, like, because I was, I think people could tell for my commentary that I am a wrestling nerd. Like, I internalize all of this stuff. And so that I've always been a nerd in that regard because I would go out and tape trade and stuff like in the early days of the internet. And Rexport Pro Wrestling, there was like these tape trading circles.

And, you know, and so I was always seeking out stuff. There was, when I got my driver's license, I found out there was a Japanese bookstore about 30 miles away from, you know, the house. grew up in and so every Thursday I would drive to the Japanese bookstore I would get that week's tape of New Japan Pro Wrestling bring it home I would dub it on my two VCR you know so it's like I was I was into it so was this the mask you were always wearing as a wrestler no I actually uh my backyard days I had a different gimmick where I was a backyard wrestler as well yeah so I was I was I was Scorpio Diablo it was a different mask but uh then when I started training I'm not sure why I wanted to switch. I think, actually, I know I want to switch because I was in, uh, uh, in Southern California when I told,

told the native, uh, Spanish speakers that I wanted to go as El Scorpio Diablo. They were like, yeah, you're kidding, right? So, uh, so then I, I switched up to Excalibur, but then, you know, switch up to look as well. And so this, this style of mask has always been, you know, what I've had since 1999. When you're like, imagine you don't wear the mask all the time out in public, but if you're like checking into a hotel like, we're out here, are there ever fans that are like, I know that voice? Occasionally it doesn't happen that often. I think because my speaking voice is a little different than my announcing voice. Like just enough that...

I don't know. This is a booming broadcast voice. It is. But, you know, there's been times where I'll meet somebody, you know, like backstage at an AEW show and I'll, you know, be talking to them for about five minutes. And that's when it finally clicks. Like if I'm just, you know, in passing, you know, if I'm like, you know, like, here's my credit card and driver's license or whatever, you know, then that's not enough of a sample size.

But once there's a little bit of a conversation going, then people are like, hey, wait a second. That's what happened the first time I met you. Because I met you like the day before and then I saw you the next day with your mask on. And I'm like, oh, hey, I'm Chris, good to meet you. You're like, yeah, we met yesterday. I'm like, oh, oh, I get it now. Yeah. And it's hard too sometimes because I don't remember that I met you out of the mask or in the

mask or whatever, you know, and so it's like, then I'm just like, like, oh, remember at the hotel lobby or whatever? And, yeah. So your, your wrestling career was like seven-ish years, I believe? Yeah, yeah. So what caused you to go from wrestling into commentary? Well, it was kind of by necessity because in 2003, some friends and I, we started a promotion called Pro Wrestling Guerrilla, PWG, and we realized that, you know, selling, take

and DVDs at the time was unnecessary to have the business be successful. And so I think the first show we released without commentary, but it just kind of felt weird. And so we went back and just recorded our own commentary as myself and disco machine. And we just did commentary for the show. And it was a lot, it was very tongue and cheek. It wasn't good. Like if I listened to it today, I would just want to tear my ears off. But that was the roots of it.

And, you know, throughout the years, you know, we didn't have the budget to bring in anybody to commentary. And so we just did it. Everything about PWG is, you know, DIY, you know, very bootstrappy. And so, you know, all, you know, from tip to tail was all done internally, including the commentary. And so just throughout the years and, you know, the repetition of doing that, allowed me to develop. And then as we started going on for longer, I kind of realized like,

oh, we legit have like the best wrestling in the world. I need to be more serious about my job and commentary to do these guys the best job possible. Because if they're going all out in the ring and I'm just sitting here making jokes, like that kind of undercuts the importance of what they're doing. So I started taking a little more seriously. Right.

And did you have any sort of. a formal broadcast training or any play-by-play training? Nope, no, it was just... Oh, just listening to the greats that you're now working with? So that's the other interesting thing is, of course, I know Jim Ross and Tony Schuani, I've listened to a lot of their calls throughout the years, but the, the broadcasters that really inspire me are actually like basketball or hockey broadcasters. And, you know, like there was...

I grew up in Detroit, and so when I was growing up, the Pistons and the Red Wings were both super hot. And so I was always watching those games and like George Blaha from the Pistons. And then, you know, like now in NBA, Mike Breen is one of my favorite commentators and just listening to to his delivery and then how he's able to, you know, call the action, but then, you know, tell, tell a story. And, you know, especially in a sport like basketball or something. You know, there's two teams trying to score the most points, but then there's all these little sub-stories that he's able to identify. And it's like, oh, last time we were in Denver, you know, this happened, these guys got into a scuffle.

We should keep an eye on that. And so, you know, stuff like that has been, I think, a little more influential in my style of commentary than, you know, Jim Ross or Tony Chivani. But, yeah, I mean, they are, you know, legends in this field. But if you grew up watching Japanese wrestling, you're not really able to learn about the commentary. because they're speaking Japanese.

Right. And I think that's where kind of the emotion in my voice comes from. Because, you know, when I would be watching those shows, you're right. I couldn't understand a word. But I could hear, you know, they would get excited. And they, you know, they, as the intensity of the match came up, you know, rose, then the intensity of the announcers rose as well. I want to jump back into the PWG stuff because what you've built there is nothing short of incredible

and incredibly impressive as well. At what point along the way did you guys start to realize, oh, we've got something really special here? I think it was the 2007 Battle of Los Angeles. I might be wrong. It might be six. But it was the first show where we had Dragon Gate guys come over and compete in the Battle of Los Angeles tournament.

And after that happened, there was a couple of guys that were on the show, El Generico, Pac. Kevin Steen that by wrestling with Shima and the Dragon Gate guys, they got invited to go over to Japan to train and work at Dragon Gate. And so then we're like, oh, this is, you know, we never set out with PWG to be the biggest or most financially successful wrestling promotion in the world. We started because we loved wrestling. and we just wanted to put on good fun shows. And so to see that something that we had built, you know, over four years or whatever it was, was now allowing our, you know, friends and peers in the wrestling world to go on to bigger and better opportunities.

Then we were like, oh, okay, we've really got something here. I mean, there's like a real legend attached to PWG, the fact that your tickets sell out very quickly, the fact that, you know, you have a very hardcore fan base. Have you ever thought about running bigger venues so more people can come? So that I'm my involvement on and you know with PWG is strictly on kind of I guess we'll say like the marketing side. You know like I mean I was a graphic designer by trade. And so all of like the you know the DVD elements or the on screen elements and stuff like that. I still do that.

I still do the DVD covers. But everything else is all Super Dragon who's my partner in PWG. He's the booker, the live events coordinator. He's everything. And, you know, he's got a very strong belief in, you know, keeping things small and keeping it special. And, you know, and that's much to my frustration, you know, there's been times where I'm like, oh, we could do, you know, this type of merchandise

or we could do this kind of shirt or whatever. And he's like, no, that's all right. I'm like, but we're leaving money on the table. It's fine. You know, and so that's, I mean, that's honestly never been a goal of his to, to, to run a big arena or to do anything like that. It's just to consistently have the best pro wrestling and to have the best showcase for, you know, because his, his in-ring career and my in-ring career are, you know, well over with. And so what we are able to do now is create a showcase

for the next generation of guys to, you know, to really get noticed on a larger stage. So if, if you started the commentary out of Nessels, What was the was there a necessity to stop wrestling because of that as well? No, the the wrestling, I stopped just because the injuries were kind of racking up. I was, I had had a few concussions, so I was really worried about that. And then the other thing, too, is just my heart wasn't into it because because I was injured, I was, you know, less motivated to train or to, you know, to go to the gym. It just, you know, just sucks if, you know, you're all banged up like that.

And so, so then I started just kind of coasting in between. between matches and then I would go out there and I wouldn't have the kind of match that I wanted to have. And I saw all these guys coming up at PWG around that same time who I felt like if I, as, you know, one of the co-founders of PWG wanted a match on the show, I could have that. But I'd be taking a spot away from somebody else. And so I think it was a tough realization to come to, but one that I'm ultimately glad I did come to when I came to it. it because, you know, I mean, you've talked to enough wrestlers, you know, that they're a stubborn bunch and some go on well, beyond, well longer than they should. And so, you know, I mean, I'm still paying the prices from all the stupid decision I made. What on you right now? Like, you go,

oh, man, I can't believe my neck, knee, elbow, whatever hurts. It's lower back and knees, mostly. Okay. Yeah, that's, I had my, my meniscus repaired a few years ago. go and then just like almost immediately retore it. And, but because then, you know, like my lower back was banged up. And so that's, you know, bent and on again, off again issue. But then because my meniscus is damaged, I've changed, like my physical therapist told me, like, oh, you've changed your gate to adapt to how your meniscus is. So now I'm putting more pressure on my left hip.

And so now my left hip is getting weird. You know, it's like this whole weird thing. And so, you know, I mean, I just try to. Luckily now, I'm able to be a little more mindful of it. I'm able to do the physical therapy exercises and things like that to try to relieve the pressure and stuff like that. So we know who Excalibur the commentator is. Who is Excalibur the wrestler? That's a good question.

I wasn't very focused in terms of what my character was or anything like that. Ultimately, I wanted to be a good base for guys. one of one of my favorite rivalries was ray mysterio junior in sikosies and wow and and sicoses would always make ray's stuff look so amazing so i always liked wrestling you know like shorter athletic guys and then uh you know being able to take their moves really well and really um you know really accentuate their athleticism and stuff like that through my you know through my bumping or through my taking their moves And I think that's also kind of, you know, my commentary style too is, I mean, yes, I wear the masks, but I, you know, I don't draw any attention to it. I don't really talk about my career. I'm there to accentuate and to enhance the in-ring product. Was there ever a point when you were starting to make the full-time transition and adjust commentary that you went, maybe I don't need the mask? No, because, I mean, it's, you know, I said, you know, I said, you know, I said, you know,

that that that era of wrestling in the you know in the 90s in Japan was really my sweet spot and you know I mean that's it's you know it's the thing I love about wrestling is you know the the the the the pageantry the fantastical element this you know this this this new cultural mythology that's developed around wrestling and so you know for me you know I mean I've been Excalibur my entire career and just just because other people don't know about it. You know, for me, you know, like when I, when I take off the mask, then, then the wrestling ends, you know, like that's a separate thing. That's my, you know, my away from wrestling life, my home life or whatever.

But when I have the mask on, that's when, you know, that's when it's wrestling. Well, I think the first time that I was introduced to you was all in. And when they cut to you guys, I went, oh, he has a mask. And he's like, really good. And I think that you're right. It makes you stand out. it makes you incredibly unique. And then you just kind of go,

it doesn't matter what it looks like. You see me 30 seconds a show. What does it matter? You know, Jim Ross wears a big black cowboy hat. Tony Chivani's got diamond earrings. Like that's, you know, I mean, what does it matter what we look like? As long as we're, you know,

doing our job well, then it doesn't matter. And I think that that's the thing just about broadcasting in general. People don't notice really until you're bad. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, if you're really,

really, really good. People just kind of expect it. And then if you're bad, we were like, oh, that's awful. Right. That thing is terrible. So how did it all in come about for you? I had known the Young Bucks for, I guess at that point, about 12, 13 years. And I actually met that.

I'm actually no longer than that because I met them the first time was at Super Dragon. And I and myself were running or guest teaching a class at Rev Pro, which, Revolution Pro, in Southern California, unrelated to RevPro UK. But we were at the school and we were running a class and Matt Jackson came in and he was Mr. Instant Replay

Matt Jackson. He already had his gimmick and he came in from his backyard fed and like he had all his backyard titles and stuff like that. And you know like the drill was you know like leapfrog drop down shoulder tackle elbow drop

or something like that. And he did leapfrog drop down shoulder tackle standing moonsault press, you know? And this was just like in front of like the class and myself and Dragon just looked at you. Like who is this asshole? And so that was the first time we met him.

And then a few years later they had, you know, they kind of realized like, oh, we can't be doing stuff like that. And they'd kind of tightened up that, that aspect of their attitude. And they ended up getting booked on PWG. And so I had known them through that. and Matt approached me about doing all all in and he said you you know you are the the soundtrack to our to our rise in wrestling and because with you know without pwg they wouldn't have gotten booked in dragon gate without getting booked in dragon gate they wouldn't have got booked in ring of honor without ring of honor they wouldn't have got booked in new japan and you know and so i was i was there commenting all their pwg matches throughout the years and um you know and so that was that was really special for me to be acknowledged, you know, I mean, I truly believe they are, they are the best tag team in the world. And so for somebody, you know, to get that type of acknowledgement from them was really special.

And to have me, you know, to bring me on board for that. We just, before doing this podcast, we did a panel here at C2E2. And Cody, you know, the subject of me, me being on all in came up. And I told Cody, I said, well, you were out on me. And he's like, I wasn't out. I just wasn't convinced because he, you know, he didn't, you know, he was a little weird about the mask. Because, you know, obviously he's got a traditional wrestling background. He came from WWE where, you know, things are done a certain way.

And after he watched the show, he was like, all right, I get it. You know, it's fine. But the fact that he was willing to give you that chance, though, I speaks volumes for your work. Yeah. I appreciate that. And I appreciate, you know, the faith that the, the bucks put in me. And then, you know, the fact that they thought, you know, my, like I said, no professional broadcast experience,

but they thought that I could do a good job on cable TV. Primetime cable TV is just mind-boggling. So the amount of faith that they've put into me, I hope that I've been able to return on my side, you know, with my, you know, with my output, you know, like even a tiny iota of that. So then what changed for you after All In? All In was,

actually the same weekend as my the same weekend as my sister-in-law's wedding. And so I had to get like a very serious permission slip to, because it was the weekend or the wedding was on Sunday.

All-in was on Saturday. So I missed the rehearsal dinner. I missed it. Yeah, yeah. And I have to tell my fiance that, you know, it's like, hey, I'm never going to have a chance to do something like this. You know, like this means a lot to me.

All these guys are here. I've seen them come up. And she's just like, okay, but if you miss that wedding, I'm going to kill you. And where was the wedding? It was in San Diego. So I was on a 5 a.m. flight from Chicago to San Diego. At least you gain three or two hours when you're going to go. Yeah.

And so I ended up, and I'm making it to the wedding in time. I was, I was dog tired. But then when I got there, she was like, she was like, you need to keep your energy level up until at least 10 p.m. Wow. Not congratulations on probably the greatest night of your life at that point. Well, it was her sister's greatest night, too. So, you know, she's known her longer than me.

So, yeah. But, but I did my part and I stayed up until 11 and then I just crashed in a heap. But, you know, after that, I watched the show back and I watched it with her. And I was like, wow, that was, I'm really glad I got to do that. And she's like, I'm happy for you. And then a couple, hey, maybe. maybe a month or so later, Matt was saying, he texted me and he's like, hey, there's something coming, you know, and just we'll let you know what there's something coming.

And so, you know, she and I talked and, you know, because I had a job away from wrestling, had a day job and everything. And there was a lot of, you know, because, you know, the details about AEW at that point, even after it was announced, all we had was the pay-per-view. That's right. The TV deal and everything wasn't announced. Yeah, basically from January until the pay-per-view. It was announced.

Six months, yeah. And then the TV deal wasn't even announced until, I think right before the pay-per-view. I'm not, I think it was after that. Was it? Yeah. Was that the up fronts, right? Yeah. So that made it in June, yeah.

But anyway, so, you know, like, you know, I was saying to her, you know, could, is, can I make a career of this? Like, is this possible? And she's like, I don't know. I mean, you know, like she, it wasn't that she was supportive, but she was trying to be realistic. And I was trying to be real. I do, because there's been so many failed pro wrestling promotions. For sure. And so it's like, obviously I knew that to be, you know, I have a healthy dose of skepticism.

But, you know, once I met Tony, Tony Kahn and talked with him, saw, you know, the infrastructure that they had set up from January 1st to May 25th and, you know, all of this stuff. And all these people that were taking a chance on AEW, I. you know, both she and I agreed that, yeah, this was something that, you know, that it's a once in a lifetime opportunity and, you know, I couldn't pass it up. So what was, what was the plan, you know, if, if AED hadn't happened? What, what course were you on? Uh, just keep my day job, you know, and keep, keep doing PWG and, and I would, I mean, I think I would have been happy with that, you know, like, I mean, I would have had, I said no to AEW and AEW gone on to, you know, to what it is today. and I had turned it down, I would be, you know, miserable.

But, you know, had AEW never, never even been an option, I think I would have been fine because I never had any expectations of, you know, about my involvement with wrestling beyond just PWG and beyond being a place where guys could, you know, sharpen their instruments and, you know, get ready for the next stage, whether it was, you know, Japan or WWU or wherever. When you found out that Jim Ross was getting hired on, what was your reaction? there's absolutely no way they're going to let me sit next to Jim Rose. Were you like, I'm out of a job now?

No, but I just thought like, you know, there's no way Jim is going to be able to sit next to a guy in a mask. And then the first time we met, you know, they flew us to Atlanta a couple weeks before double or nothing to do kind of some chemistry tests. And, you know, the first time we met, you know, the first time we met, you know, they flew us to Atlanta a couple weeks before, you know, time we met. I knew that already he was very skeptical of me and my abilities. And he said, you know, like, the important thing here is to get over the boys in the ring, not yourself. And I said, thank you, sir. I know that. And that's, I hope you, you know, and after that weekend,

you know, he was, I think, a little more at ease. And then after double or nothing, he was like, okay, yeah. Like, you know, you are, you are focused exclusively on getting the in-ring product over. And so I was, I was very, very happy about that to get his kind of seal of approval. And then Tony Chivani gets added on a few months later, you know, what were your feelings about that? I was awesome because I was always more of a WCW guy during the Monday Night Wars than the WWF guy. And, I mean, I would watch both, but I always look forward to WCW more just because they had the cruiser weights, the Lucha guy, the Japanese. guys and so that I wouldn't have to you know get get a fourth generation VHS tape to see that and so so I

always heard Tony a little more than I heard J.R and and so I mean that was cool because I really um you know I really like Tony um as as a fan and then getting to meet him as a person is he's just like the absolute coolest guy he's so nice too like one of the nicest people I've ever met in wrestling yeah and and the great thing about Tony is he he's I mean, he thought his wrestling career was over. He thought, you know, he was never going to really do anything again. He was happy doing, you know, University of Georgia sports, doing minor league baseball. And I mean, that's, you know, those are, that's a cool thing to be able to, not many people get to do that.

And so, and so now that he gets this kind of second act in wrestling, he is just, I mean, he's beyond thrilled. Because he also, after WCW, he did step away from wrestling and he really hadn't watched. And so now all the stuff that he's seeing is new. And so when you hear him, and he, he react. surprised or shocked at something. That's authentic. You know, that's not like a manufactured thing. He's just like, oh, my God, I have never seen that before. Those are two pretty good guys to sit under the learning trio.

Yes, and I am so thankful for that. What's the biggest thing you've learned from Jim Ross? The economy of words. You know, being concise and now that I'm not, now that I have to think about it and say and I'm not being concise at all. It's ironic. Yes. But it just, you know, because for PWG,

I was used to either calling it all by myself or only having a two-man booth. And in AEW with the three-man booth, we have to share the ball a lot. And so if I do have a point that I'm trying to make, getting out, making it quickly and concisely, not only, you know, is a better messaging tool for the audience and, you know,

saying, getting them to understand what I'm trying to say. But it also creates an opportunity for a conversation to happen between the broadcasters where, you know, Tony or JR can expound upon it. And, you know,

and then it really adds emphasis to it versus me just saying, this is this, this way because of this. Yeah. It creates a conversation and it, it, it raises the importance of it. Now,

is there something specific you learn as well from Tony? I think the part of my job that I'm the worst at is being a pitch man and you know saying it's like oh you know tickets will be on sale for Denver blah blah blah Tony can do those in his sleep he is so great at that and so I'm always looking for I'm listening to him and listening to how he transitions into it like the openings that he looks for or if he's got to got a specific segue or something, you know. And so that's, that's something that I, I'm very happy that. And they both have two completely different styles. And so being able to learn from these guys that are, you know, legends in their industry, but then have two distinct styles of broadcasting has been so great.

And there's not really a play-by-play guy or a color guy or a third guy. You guys kind of all just come together and what comes out always sounds great. Thank you. I mean, it's, yeah, at first we were kind of, you know, in that first chemistry test with JR, we were kind of trying to determine the roles because of myself, Jim and Alex Marvez. And Alex has since moved into more of a backstage role, interviewer role. But, you know, so Jim was saying, it's like, well, you know, I'll handle the play by play. You know, you can be analysis. Alex can be, you know, statistics. And that was kind of the original way. way we started it out. But then I think once Jim realized how familiar I was with like the Bucks, the Lucha Bros, and all these teams, he realized that there was not, not no way that he could catch

up with that level of knowledge, but he already had somebody here that knew that. So why not rely on me? And so yes, for like those type of matches, I will be, you know, I'll be play by play. And for a more traditional style of a match like Cody versus Dustin Rhodes, Jim Ross will take, you know, take the reins out of And it's not something that we ever say like, okay, you're doing this, I'm doing that.

It just kind of happens naturally. That's the best way for it to work. And now you've got Taz in the mix. Yeah. So this is from a viewer speaking here, from the outside looking in for me. Is Taz coming in when Tony Chivani is doing something in the ring? Originally, Taz was coming in as kind of Tony's backup because he still had University of Georgia commitments. And so Tony couldn't be at TV every week.

So that's what Taz was kind of brought in for on a case-by-case basis. But everybody loved having Taz backstage and, you know, the network loved TAS. And so, you know, now he's kind of, yet like this past week of dynamite in Kansas City, Tony had so many hosting responsibilities on the show that it just made sense to have Taz out there instead of Tony getting up every second match or, you know, doing that. And so, and it's great that we have kind of a relief valve, too, you know, in Taz if, you know, if, you know, if, you know, if JR gets stranded and, you know, wherever I'm stuck somewhere, you know, we have, you know, we can have a three-man team out there and a really good three-man team. Well, I think people don't realize from a production standpoint, there's more than just you guys

calling what you see on the monitor. I don't think the fans realize that you have to pitch to these tickets are on sale or we're going to throw to this package that sets up this match and all that type of stuff. So walk me through like dynamite ends Wednesday night. Then what's the rest of your week look like leading up? the next dynamite. So not only am I, you know, I have my on-screen announcer role, but I'm also a marketing manager with AEW. And so I'm working behind the scenes with Dana Massey, our CMO, and she

and I kind of work together on just, you know, basically anything that's, that's marketing-related, whether, you know, like Jeff Jones, it handles a lot of our, handle all of our, you know, social media and our kind of digital stuff. But, you know, whether, you know, it's like a printed thing, a banner, marketing elements, advertisements, billboards, whatever that is. Dana and I work that. We kind of, you know, we've developed like the brand identity and things. And these are all things that I've done in my, away from wrestling career. Yeah. Okay. And so it's been actually really cool because, I mean, that's something I do enjoy working on and then to be able to to have that aspect of it along with the, you know, the on-screen

aspect is really cool. I mean, those are like two of my biggest passions. And so, so after TV, you know, fly home, catch up on, you know, catch up on the emails. We'll, you know, kind of chat with the Turner guys. You know, what are they thinking about next week? What are their big marketing activations? Then weekends are usually, you know, thankfully pretty quiet. And then, you know, Monday we, you know, have conference calls with the Turner team, our internal team, about the next week's, you know, priorities. And then Tuesday morning, flying out to Dynamite. And then Tuesday night production meeting, Wednesday, you know, show day, Thursday, fly home. you know, catch up with Dana emails.

You know. Prince Lather repeat. Yeah, yeah. I'm surprised to hear that Turner people are that involved with what's going on. They are, they've been a fantastic partner with us because, you know, at first we were kind of skeptical. We didn't know, know what to expect. But the team at Turner has given us, their, their full-throated support.

They have dedicated so many unexpected resources to us. And it's, they're just as invested as, as the, the, the, you know, the, you know, the, you. internal AEW team is in our success. And that's that's really awesome. Like here at C2E2, we have AEW, we have our own booth presence. But Turner, um, in, in order to promote dynamite has, you know, had made a big marketing spend on, uh, everybody gets like a AEW drawstring bag and there's like free posters and all this stuff. And so, and that's separate from our company. That's all done by Turner. And that's, uh, and so they are super, super, super. involved in promoting the show. Well, they should be. I mean, they're probably pretty happy to have such a

popular show on TNT. But in terms of the actual work that you do that we hear on the air on a Wednesday night, what all goes into that? I have my own, you know, kind of way of writing up my notes and stuff like that. Like, well, after the production meetings, Alex Marvez, we'll actually kind of write up some bullet points about, you know, statistics and these sort of things and I like to let J.R. and Tony have those and then I write up my own notes because if we're all reading from the same thing then it could kind of sound you know a little redundant or something like that so I try to look for for different you know different angles of storytelling than you know than the other other guys might and so yeah I mean I you know I watch back the shows I you know I've got I've got my own notes like

like almost kind of like a like a diary of things that had happened. Like, you know, like for Cody and MJF, like as it's happening, if I have certain thoughts, I'll write that up. And then I have like a, you know, a Google doc that I could just refer to. That said, you know, week whatever in Huntsville, like this, this happened and, you know, blah, blah, and like, you know, so then I'm able to take that chunk out, put it into my show notes for that day and that sort of thing. Now, people that are watching overseas, they get like a different feed, right?

So when it goes to commercial, they still hear your commentary, right? Yes. Yeah. The fight TV feed is uncut for two straight hours. That's got to be difficult because that's usually the point. And I speak from experience in television during commercial breaks is when you get to talk to producers, figure things out. Did that go well? Let's try this.

If people are able to listen in on this, how do you get that stuff accomplished? That's, it's tough because, well, so I've, all my broadcast experiences have been up until dynamite. I'd been on a pay-per-view. And pay-per-view is just, you know, four straight hours. That's true, yeah. And for PWG shows, there's no producer or anything. There's no, it's just me, you know, talking into the, into the box. And there's four straight hours of that, you know. And so, like, I've always kind of worked in, in that way. But, you know, J.R. and Tony, used to TV wrestling, used to commercial breaks and stuff like that. And so there's, what we'll end up doing is we have a talkback button where we can talk back to the truck.

And so if I have to relay something to Tony and we can't do it in commercial break, I'll relay it to the truck. Then they'll put it back out to Tony or to Jim or whoever. And that's kind of how we get around that. Oh, and the talkback button doesn't go over the air. Right, yeah. And so we're talking directly to the producer. Right. Do you have a favorite call?

I mean, it's only been, you know, not even a year, but do you have a favorite call so far of yours? I like when the best friends do the hug. I just said it, you got to give the people what they want because every time they do it, they do the big Okada zoom out and it's way more dramatic than it should be. Which is amazing. Right. And so I just, I said that just like as a joke one time when they did it and, you know, because it is so absurd that they're doing the zoom out on this hug.

And then so now it's just become like one of my calls. And then JR's favorite call of mine is Topes Suicita. And so like when a guy does a dive, he'll literally like turn to me and be like, eh? Yeah. When you're done calling the show, because it's not just dynamite, it's obviously dark as well. What's your voice sound like? It's pretty good. I, you know, like I think as time goes on, I'll probably have to do some, you know, vocal training or, you know,

like what singers or anything like that does. But, you know, now because I'm only calling one show a week or in cases like this with the pay-per-view, two in a week, I've got enough downtime in between that it's not. To rest it. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, like I've done PWG shows like Battle of Los Angeles where it's three straight days and I'm doing it solo.

And it amounts to being like 13 straight hours or, you know, 13 hours and three days of wrestling that I'm calling. And by the end of that, like I'm totally fried. And so to have, you know, to just do three hours on a Wednesday night with dynamite and dark, you know, maybe a little scratchy afterwards, but by, you know, by Thursday night, you know, like 24 hours later, I'm back to normally. Well, when I did the interview with Justin Roberts, he talked about there was a point in his WWE career that he almost lost his voice, like completely. Yeah. And, you know, I get it. He's very, you know, very boisterous with his voice. But, you know, you are too with your style. And I think it's the not. only is the AEW schedule helpful to the interim wrestlers. It's helpful to everybody that's involved

in the show because Justin doesn't have to hit the gym. You know, like he doesn't have to hit that every single night, night after night after night. You know, he has to hit that once a week. You know, and so it's helpful in that regard. And, you know, it gives longevity to everybody. And, I mean, including like the production team. You know, they, in Instead of striking the stage and getting, you know, getting it out to the next day to, you know, the next town and putting it up and having to do that, you know, work this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this next schedule. They can, you know, strike the stage, get it to the next town and then leave it in the next town, fly home, fly back, get the stage up, you know, so it's, it's a much easier schedule on everybody. You must have so many frequent flyer miles already. Yeah.

I'm going to. What's your airline now? I'm a Delta guy. Okay. And... The diamond medallions, what you're trying to get to? I just missed diamond last year. Ah.

And so... That's a lot of flying. Yeah. And I'll have diamond probably by April this year. That's ridiculous. Yeah. That's 100,000 miles? I think it's 150.

Maybe 125. But, I mean, it's all the west to east flights. Of course. You know, it's every... Like a lot of the guys are based, you know, northeast or Atlanta, Orlando, that kind of area. So it's like if we're, you know, if we're doing Nashville or whatever, that's, you know, hour and a half, two hour flight for them. For me, that's, you know, that's a four and a half. And then sometimes, you know, a lot of times with layovers or something.

And time changes. That's, that's, that's, why, that's why I'm always on the, like, the 6am Tuesday morning flight is. I mean, that's just, like the same flight as the Youngbox all the time? No, they're flying out of Ontario. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. No, no.

Ontario is on Riverside. Yeah. Oh, my God. And so, so, so, yeah, it's like, it's a pretty small regional airport. but the good thing is because they are, you know, EVPs, they can say, fly me out of this airport, you know, and everybody's like, okay, cool, yeah, no problem. In doing the research for this interview and just, and even finding out about you after All In, there's not a lot of information about you out there.

I mean, if you really, really did. Right. But is that something that you like? Like, obviously you're wearing a mask. You're a man of mystery, you know, in a certain way. Is that how you like to keep things? I mean, I do enjoy my privacy. I do like being able to walk through the airport or, you know, walk through the convention center here

and nobody really knowing who I am. And because, you know, I mean, despite being involved in professional wrestling and despite, you know, wearing the flashy mask and stuff like that, I never, you know, like I said, I never, I always wanted to be a base for somebody. I always wanted to make somebody else look good. And so I've never really set out to be a star.

And, and I'm having, happy with that. You know, like I, I, it, it would be very easy for me to just all of a sudden take off the magic, like, this is me. Now everybody noticed me. But it's like, I don't, I mean, I, it's, it's cool when, you know, people recognize me or find out who I am and they, you know, they're, you know, they, they smile and stuff like that. And that, that's a cool feeling. But, um, you know, that's not really what it's, what it's about for me. It's not, not, not, not to say that everybody that's, you know, on screen is self-serving or something like that. Well, that's kind of how wrestling is, though. In wrestling, people are trying to put themselves over. That's very much how it is.

And my job, I 100% believe my job is to put over the in-ring product. But, you know, and that's a that's a rare place to be coming from. I think that a lot of people go, I'm on camera, I'm now. Well, I mean, you know, you're, you're Canadian and I'm from Detroit, which is just right across the river from Windsor. I think there's something about that, that Midwest. you know, good hard work will be eventually rewarded work ethic, you know, and I think, I mean, that's something that I mean, you know, I still believe is just like, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't need a pat on the back. I don't need to sign the biggest contract today. But if I do a good job and, you know, everybody, everybody likes my work, both the fans and the, you know, the, you know,

the office and the Turner people, then, yeah, I mean, I think one day, you know, like, I mean, I'll be rewarded however however it may be monetarily or otherwise was there any discussion you know years ago about an audition or try out with wwee no um i've i've heard a couple rumblings that it's like oh you know they they asked to pull a tape together for you but um i've never never been contacted any or anything about that and i think you know i mean a large part of it is a my my style in pwg is not the WWE style at all. Right. And, you know, that's not to say that, you know, like Moro Rinaloa doesn't have a W.W.E. style typically. But, you know, he works in, in that system. He's able to work. And so that's not to say that that would be the one excluding factor. But I think there was,

there was a number of things that, you know, just, just didn't line up. And so. Your style is actually kind of similar to Maros. You know, it's excited. Which I think we're all excited watching wrestling. Why shouldn't you be excited? Right. And I think, you know, the, the tough part that with both morrow and my style is that um if something isn't going well or if you know if something kind of lands with a thud then you can't uh you can't oversell it because then then people think you're you're disingenuous and then they don't believe you and so that's been um you know kind of a learning curve for me and something that i've kind of learned a little bit from from Morrow and, you know, listening to him as well is that, you know, you have to be truthful.

You have to be authentic to your audience. Have there been other people along the way now that you have this job that have either asked for advice or that you've now gotten advice from? No. So a lot of wrestlers because they know I'm watching the whole show will ask like, you know, oh, what did you think of my match? Did you see this? How did this look and things like that? And I haven't really, you know, spoke. to any other broadcasters about, you know, imparting advice or anything like that.

But, you know, on the Indies are, you know, everybody, I think, is very supportive. And Ian Rickabani and I have had conversations, Lenny Leonard and I have had conversations. We're all very supportive and very happy for each other. And I think there's like a lot of, a lot of camaraderie in that world that may not necessarily exist in, you know, in WW. Sure. You mentioned your fiancé earlier. Is she a wrestling fan? No.

So how did you explain this to her? Well, so I think it was on our second date. I was like, hey, I've got something to tell you. Oh, no. And she, she's an attorney. And she's like, oh, yeah, I have the LexisNexis database. I already looked you up. And it's like, I know, like nothing you're telling me is a surprise.

But, you know, then kind of introducing her. to the world of wrestling. And by that point, in my fandom of wrestling, I wasn't really watching it for enjoyment. It was just more to like prep for PWG and stuff like that. And so, you know, and she didn't care. You know, like her only experience with wrestling was that, you know, when she was in high school, all the boys in her class would do, you know,

DX. And so that's, you know, she didn't really have an opinion outside of that. And so when I think when she saw, saw how, you know, how passionate and how, um, how much I enjoyed it and how big of a part of my life it was that she was fine with it. I don't think with wrestling you can really be one foot in. Bless you. Thank you. Um, and if you were just watching it before to kind of prep for PWG, you probably weren't all in with you. Or maybe all in with PWG, but won't, weren't all in with wrestling. Pardon all the puns. Not all in. But, you know, did that obviously

changed for you about a year ago? A little bit before that, I started watching a little bit more New Japan and stuff like that just for enjoyment's sake. Because I think, you know, like with New Japan World, it became a lot easier. You know, I didn't have to do a lot of legwork for it. And, you know, like, I mean, at the time, you know, I had my day job. My recreational hours were kind of limited. And so I don't want to have to, you know, search for content and do that sort of stuff.

if I can just, you know, pay 10 bucks a month and just get all this stuff, it was a lot easier. And so then that led to me watching a little bit more wrestling. And then, you know, just going down rabbit holes, like, you know, before, you know, I guess five, six years ago for PWG, I would just kind of watch whoever was right in front of me, whoever's going to be on the show that, you know, that night or whatever that week. But then I would, I think as wrestling Twitter has kind of grown, I would see like gifts. And I'd be like, oh, this guy looks pretty good. And then I'd go down a rabbit hole looking at their match that they would not necessarily. really booked on POWUG, but just kind of general awareness.

Do you have any advice for someone who might be watching this that wants to be in the position that you're in now? Well, I hope you don't want to be in my position because I have no intentions of relinquency. I will die in that chair. No, I think the advice would just be don't, it would be don't give up, but not in a like, oh, you have to be relentless way, but just don't, you don't. Let your discouragement or if, you know, if things aren't going well, don't let that be the kind of death now on your dream. You know, it's like I said, I never expected this to be possible.

This, you know, there was some sort of cosmic confluence of events that allowed, you know, Tony Khan, the Young Bucks, Cody and Kenny Omega to come together and and start this wrestling company. And, you know, if that can happen like anything can happen. You know what I mean? Like, it's just so crazy that we're sitting here, you know, 24 hours before our pay-per-view in Chicago and that, you know, that's just, wow, that's, that, this shouldn't exist. And so if this can happen, then, you know, anything can happen. And yet it does exist. And every time you walk into one of those arenas, is it still just like an overwhelming feeling of gratitude for you?

Yes, yes. It's cool. And, you know, like, I'm less, less nervous now that I've, you know, we've been doing this for 21 weeks or whatever it is. But, you know, I'm still just like, there's still a part of me that that is the wrestling fan that, you know, when I hear JR welcome us to this show, you know, hello everybody. And like still kind of gives, you know, gives me goosebumps. And I hope that never goes away because this, you know, this is a dream job.

And so we're trying to do, I say we. And I mean, everybody in the company is trying to do everything that we. we can to make this successful for as long as we can and to keep the you know keep the camaraderie and the culture that we have backstage like it is and you know not not turn it into a lot of backbiting or you know like that sort of stuff and I mean that will will happen eventually but I think you know it's it's important that that we kind of keep that that supportive attitude of everybody, you know. Since it's been 21 weeks, like you said,

one have been the biggest changes since week one and two and three to where are you guys right now? Definitely the tightening up of the show, you know, on the, on the format, the actual run of the show. I noticed J.R. doesn't throw to break. He goes, we'll continue in picture and picture.

And from a production decision, I'm like, that's very smart. That is, is. And it's something that, you know, J.R. Throwing to break is an heart. Yes. And J.R. has it down to a science. And if we, if we're getting counted down in our ear that we've got eight seconds to break, J.R. has an eight second version of it. He's, he's got a seven, a six, a five, a four, you know, like, he's got it, he's got him chambered,

and he can, he can pull him out at any, anytime he needs to. And so because he's, you know, he's got these standbys, it was a little tough to get him to change it up. And so now he's, He has to, you know, instead of saying, we'll be right back or don't go anywhere or whatever, you know, he has to throw in that picture and picture thing. But not every break is picture and picture. No, it's not. And so, and but we're, you know, we're getting the heads up in our, in our ear that, you know, this is a picture and picture. This is a full break. Whatever the case may be.

And, yeah, so it's there, there's been changes in that regard. And just, you know, the overall, you know, from a production standpoint, there's been a lot of experimentation with like, different camera angles and things like that. Like the, there was a couple shows where we had like the sky cam that was on the wire. And that, that provides like a really cool angle, but not every building is set up,

you know, where they have the trusses in the right place to do that. And so, you know, it was something that I think the production crew really liked, but from a, you know, from a logistical standpoint,

didn't always work. And so they abandoned that in favor of other angles and things like that. So there, you know, there was experimentation. There will continue to be experimentation. But I think now that we've gotten 20, you know, 20 plus shows under our belt of weekly television, we know, we know now what the AEW formula is. And now we can experiment a little more safely with, you know, like knowing that, okay, if this doesn't work, we can fall back on this.

And I'm sure that if we had the same conversation a year from now and two years now and three years from now, the product's going to continue to evolve. Yes. And continue to get tighter and better. Yeah. I mean, it always will. I mean, that's the, the whole thing about, I mean, just, I mean, almost anything is, you know, once you become complacent, you know, people, people realize that. And then they stop, they stop being interested.

Yeah. Well, speaking of the high angle camera, I'm glad you had one when Cody did his moonsault off the cage. I can take absolutely no credit for that. I was really happy we had that too. that was a pretty insane spot yes uh Cody Cody mentioned that he was like uh when his form was basically like when on the Muppets when Kermit would get thrown across the room he was just like it's like like a total rag doll but it worked that's it's it it was great and it was one of you know I mean the thing is we've only AEW has only existed for 14 months at this

point and if you want to call double or nothing the actual start point less than a year right now. Yeah. And in, in that time, we've had already so many iconic moments. Well, and you've got to realize being on the inside of this, how much AEW has changed the landscape of pro wrestling in that short time. Like last January, people were like, this is amazing. There's finally competition.

And not even a second of a single match had even occurred. Right. And here we are, you know, a year and a bit later. Are you able to feel that? Is it palpable? Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, just from the level of, like, not only fan interest, but, um, wrestler interests, like, you know, and not just guys that are on the indies looking for a break

or guys that are in, you know, WWE that are, you know, looking for alternative or looking to, to leverage us for contractual things. It's just, you know, it's, I think it's sparked a lot of people. It's, it's brought, brought the fan back to these. kind of wrestlers that might have been jaded. And it's brought the fan back to these, to these lapsed fans, you know, that have been out,

out on wrestling or, you know, just might have, you know, might have watched it. Still were kind of interested, but it wasn't that big part of their, their routine, but they now have kids and stuff like that. And that's been,

that's been actually one of the coolest things is talking to, you know, people that are around my age, but now they have, you know, 10, 11, 12 year old kids or whatever. And those kids are watching it. And, you know, those kids are painting their face.

like Darby Allen or they're, you know, like doing that sort of stuff. And that's, that's super cool. Look, I've really enjoyed this conversation. And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to do this. And, man, man, and everything. Yeah, it's my pleasure. And like, like I said, I mean, without AEW, we wouldn't, we wouldn't even be sitting here. So I'm extremely, I don't know. I'm moving LA soon. So I will be at PWG shows. Look at some fish tacos. You know, we'll do that. Oh, can we? No, but I'm just, I'm so stoked to see what's been going on with AEW and you know it's it's your voice along with JR and Tony Chavani is that's kind of leading us on this path that's that's so wild I mean still still pinching myself over that thank you so much

thank you man appreciate you oh what a chat what a guy and he is just getting started with AEW well AEW's just getting started like he mentioned 21 weeks into television I guess 22 weeks now because this was recorded last week I hope you enjoyed this chat as much as I did and I I hope that you leave this chat going, man, Excalibur couldn't even dream this big, and now he's doing it. What would happen if you started to dream bigger? I hope you also leave this conversation with a little more knowledge about Excalibur. And I know that next time you hear his voice on Dynamite or on a pay-per-view, you'll appreciate him that much more. He's very talented, and like I said, he's just getting started here.

So take a screenshot. Tag me at Chris Van Fleet. Tag Excalibur at Shut up Excalibur. And let us both know what stands out the most for you. Oliver Wendell Holmes said, man's mind once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions. So stretch your minds with the rest of this week and into the weekend.

Got a bunch more interviews on the way, one from Impact Wrestling, one from someone who used to be in WWE, and one from NWA. It's on the way. And if you're going to be in Tampa for WrestleMania Week, WrestleMania weekend, I would love to see you there. I'll be there, I think, most of the week.

I think I'm flying in on Tuesday. So I'll be there most of the week. I'd love to see you, I'd love to meet you. And, man, that's like a month away. Man, time's just flying here. How are two months of the year already done? We have 10 more to make this great. Make it a great weekend.

Make it a great week. We'll see you soon. Woo! Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today.

No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef?

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