Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Finn Bálor: THE DEMON, Universal Championship, Judgment Day, Bullet Club & Why He's Better Than Ever

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Finn Bálor (@finnbalor) is a professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE and NJPW. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in London to discuss his journey from Ireland to WWE, if he thought about leaving New Japan earlier than he did, winning the Universal Championship and vacating the title the next day, how he stays in great shape, getting his head split open at WrestleMania 39, his last-minute match with AJ Styles, missing out a match with Bray Wyatt, wrestling CM Punk in Ireland, and more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Vlee! Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, it's been a long time coming. It has been. We had a very brief conversation, maybe three years ago. It feels like longer. It feels like forever. Yeah, I think it was out like a WrestleMania, like...

SummerSlam, something like that. Yeah, and you'd probably done 400 interviews that day. We popped in for three minutes or something like that. So I'm glad we get to chat with you for a little bit longer today. Yeah, yeah, me too. It was cool when you reposted this photo that I posted of you in 2016 and you in 2026 and I said that the photos looked like they were like 12 minutes apart. Like you haven't aged. Well, let me tell you, those 10 years have been a lot.

I've done a lot. You've done a lot. Yeah. It doesn't look like it. You look the same. Well, thank you. I guess. What's the secret to not aging?

Consistency, I think. Like, I just do the same stuff every day. Like nutrition is the same. Training's pretty much the same. And try to live like a stress-free life. And I'm happy. Like, yeah, I'm doing what I love. I think that's the big thing.

You know? So what more, like, I think aging is probably mainly down to like stress. I'm like, I can't imagine anything worse than the stress of going to a job every day that you hate. So I love my job for the last 25 years. So I'm very, very lucky. Have you worked a quote unquote real job ever? Yeah, yeah, I started my first job. I was 16.

I worked at a cleaning contracting company where, you know, floor buffers. Yes. So my uncle worked at the like the maintenance department and that. So you got me a job in there where all the floor buffers that were broken. They get broken a lot because like people buff over the cable and they cut the cable. So I would have to like replace the cables and like do like troubleshoot all the electrics in it. Of course, I electrocuted myself, which in Europe is like 220 voltage sold out of her. From there, I got a job at Tesco's, which is a supermarket or something.

Yeah, yeah. And from there, I worked in the family business, which is the railway in Ireland. So my family work on the railway. Oh, wow. Yeah, so I sold train tickets, done like the announcements for the trains. Ladies and gentlemen, the next train to Belfast is at 11 o'clock on Platform 2. Please board in 10 minutes. When did wrestling become your full-time job?

It became full time when I was 24. Okay. Yeah. So for the first six years, I was kind of like dipping in and out between jobs and wrestling. I was very lucky that when I was working in the railway, because my dad worked there too, a lot of people kind of understood that I had this wrestling passion, and they kind of were very flexible with giving me some days off and stuff like that.

So I'm very grateful to the guys that I worked with, and I still keep in touch with them. Was it also free train tickets to go wherever you needed to go? Yeah, and actually you could take free train tickets all around Europe. Oh, that's great. And then there was also like a certain amount of passes that you could take the ferry, which is like from Ireland to England. So like I could travel from Ireland to England and then take the train and then go to train and pretty much for free.

So that's how I was able to kind of fund my training, you know? You had a one word caption on that photo, it was consistency. And you talked about it. like eating right and it's like putting in the work and all of those different things. What's a day of eating look like for you? Right now. So like there's this huge belief that like I'm a no carbs guy and I was for a long time from like 2010 when I met one of my good friends John Anderson who I wrestle with in New Japan. He said, brother, you got to go on no carbs if you want to take it to the next level. So I went on no carbs from like 2010 to about 2022. No.

O carbs? Pretty much keto. Pretty much keto. So fats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then, so I was doing that for a long time. And then myself and Chad Gable are best buddies.

And I think we're in like the run up to a mania or something. And, you know, everyone's doing this mania prep every year, you know? And I just would always do everything the same all the time. Like I was. You're like, I'm always shredded. I don't get ready. I stay ready. That's the quote, you know.

Sure. And he said, dude, just. add in some carbs maybe I didn't like it like a carb like drink what in your workout so that was like the like the beginning of me like reintroducing carbs that was the gateway yeah yeah and uh so probably for the last two years I'm pretty much like on a regular diet I would say and so breakfast would be like three full eggs half an avocado either some Greek yogurt and berries or some cottage cheese then hopefully two hours later I'll work out free workout will be like beetroot juice or pomegranate juice with some honey I'll work out after the workout I'll have a shake and a banana

then within an hour I'll have like either a piece of chicken and rice or a piece of fish and rice and then that will repeat again about two and a half hours later and then before bed I'll have some Greek yogurt again with berries and I'll be it are you traveling with these meals Well, that's ideally at home. When I'm traveling, it's pretty close to that. I would travel with the meals. But also, I think what's helped, especially like the last year, is the schedule has reduced on the road.

So we're not like consistently on the road like four days a week. So it's been a little bit easier to like dial it in again. When you talk about having less stress though, or having no stress because you're working a job that you love. Yeah. Your sleep is all over the place. Sometimes it's on a plane, sometimes it's not really much at all. That's got a factor into all this.

That's the biggest obstacle for sure. And especially for me, I struggle with like coming down from the adrenaline buzz after the shows. So like even if, you know, the show finishes at 10, like I might not sleep until four. Wow. Yeah. And then the problem then is I might have like a 6 a.m. light. So like then there's no sleep. So what are you doing to wind down in those hours? I watch YouTube. Yeah, I got, I got, I got, the go to on YouTube. Ancient Architects is my favorite

YouTube page. It's all about like ancient Egypt and ancient structures and how to were built and possible theories on how they were built. And I find that fascinating. I find that stuff fascinating, too. Like, why, why do we still not know? I know it's a mystery. Or like the fact that when they found the sphinx, it was like covered in like mud and they just saw like the top of it. And they We just saw like the top of it and they had to like dig it out. Yeah. That stuff's fast. Yeah.

And what's still under all that sand that's in the Sahara too? It could be a lost civilization. Who knows? I know. I think about it all the time. And like I like the kind of like think about wild, wacky theories, but I always kind of go back to like the mainstream narrative. Because just so much evidence, so much study being done, so much research being done that probably the mainstream belief is close. to the actual history, I believe.

But it's crazy that we don't like definitively know. But what's crazy to me is that like we think that human civilization is this, like we started off with sticks and stones, making a fire, and then we slowly went up and up and up into cars and automobiles and airplanes and now iPhones and FaceTime where it's been like this, you know. Yeah. Because we built like the biggest structures on Earth like 4,000 years ago. it's bananas. Yeah.

And like how they move those stones, how they cut those stones so precisely, how they aligned it, like the true north, it's insane. And stones that were coming from quarries that were... Yeah, 500 miles away. Yeah. Yeah. That stuff's wild. Yeah.

I can talk about this for four hours. I can talk about it for 44 hours. That stuff's so, so interesting to me. And I think about that a lot with the movies I watch, too. I just love the idea of, like, you see a movie. It makes you just think. And you and I connect on Interstellar.

Oh, it's a great movie. I love that movie so much. Yeah. When they come back from the water planet and Cooper, Matthew McConaughey's characters watching his kids grow up, it's like gets me every time. Yeah. Especially now that I'm a dad, I'm like, oh, man, I'm probably going to start crying, thinking about it.

Yeah. That movie's just absolutely brilliant. Why does it resonate so much with you? Yeah. I just like thinking of the possibility of the future. I'm like, what's possible? And I've been very lucky to, like, have experienced a lot here on Earth. And I used to always say, like, if I had an opportunity to go to space on a one-way ticket,

like, I'd take it. On a one-way ticket? On a one-way, yeah. But that was before I was married. And I'd come back now. Actually, she wouldn't let me go. Well, maybe you could bring her with you. Did she go?

No, no, no. She's very happy here on Earth. It makes sense. Jim Rome takes on sports. I will always have a complicated relationship with this game. But people evolve. So do sports. Do not make me regret this.

Do not make me devolve. Back to that guy that so many clones wish that I still was. And do not embarrass the entire country. Now, I can go back. I can get there fast. Lose tonight. And you got a real problem. Do not blow it.

The Jim Rome Show podcast. You've been warned. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Form. Scrolling with Haley. I'm Haley Karinea. I scroll with the homies here in the live chat because there's a lot to scroll through on X, on Instagram, on TikTok.

Cutting through the clutter, one hot take at a time. Love seeing you all in the chat before the show. I tried to jump in just a few minutes before to say hello. I love the chat interaction. Thank you for helping. But I do it to get all of the videos and all of the content that you won't find anywhere else. Scrolling with Haley. Just search that up and I will be there.

Follow and listen on your favorite place. How do you feel like being married has changed you? It certainly made me more calm, more relaxed and more fulfilled and more happy. Yeah. Yeah. There's something about doing all of this in life with somebody by your side. Yeah. And, you know, what we do, like, we travel so much and then going home to like your person is so

beautiful, you know. and a lot of times when I'd be on the road, sometimes it would be on the road to three weeks at a time and then I'd be going home. And like, you don't really feel home because it's just a couch and a TV, you know, but when I go home and she's there, it's like just resets me completely.

So anytime, even if I get an opportunity to go home for like 22 hours, like I'd fly back from Europe just to see her and fly back, just to reset, you know. How do you feel like your approach to wrestling has changed or your mindset about wrestling has changed in your 20s, your 30s, your 30s and now your 40s.

20s was like, like you're scratching and clawing and you're chasing and you're like, oh my God, but you don't really feel like you belong and you feel like everyone's like, what's this little kid doing here? In the 30s, it was like,

all right, this is going to end soon. I'm going to burn the back axle out of this. And similar to like what J.D. was saying when he was on here, it's like, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to give it everything, every single night. I don't care about what happens tomorrow.

And now in my 40s, I feel like I'm a little bit more economical with my movements and my moves. And I feel like I'm very lucky to have learned from some incredible people who taught me some skills, not necessarily like physical skills, like our techniques, but like a mindset that can prolong my career. And I always tell a story about when I went to the performance. Center when I was like, I started with NXT, I think that was 34, which was quite late to start. And, you know, WW had came knocking a couple times. And I'd always kind of kicked up back because I was very happy in New Japan. I wanted to finish my, wanted to do my whole career there. And I was trying to negotiate a 10-year contract. And there was an issue. This was when I was 34. I was trying to negotiate a 10-year contract to stay there for the rest of my life. That would take you to right about now.

I know. I know. Wow. And then, and there was an issue because, New Japan was owned by another company, and that contract only lasted for four years. So they could only give me a four-year contract. And I'd been there like eight years, and I'd seen how when guys got to like their mid to late 30s, they kind of like phased them out. I thought, well, this will get me to my mid to late 30s, and I'll be phased out. And I want to wrestle longer than that. And I'm 34, and this is, you know, 12 years ago in W. where the roster was a lot younger.

They were signing much younger guys. And I thought, oh, this could be my last opportunity. So that's kind of the mindset I had. And I was talking about my dad about, you know, the decision. Should I, should I roll the dice in WWE or should I stay in New Japan? I always forget my dad. Or I never forget my dad said, son, you grew up watching WWF. That was your dream.

Like, you're in Japan. You're doing great. I've done it for eight years, but like, roll the dice. And I'm glad I did. If you were thinking in your 30s about, I can't do this forever, is that still in your mind now? In my 20s, I thought if I make it to 30, it would be awesome. As a wrestler. As a wrestler, yeah.

And in life, I guess. And then in my 30s, I thought, well, 40, that would be really incredible. Right now, I feel better now than I did in my early. 30s and going back to what I was saying earlier about signing with NXT a lot of people were like of the opinion of hey he's like an experienced guy knows exactly what he's doing in the ring like why is he in NXT he's wasting his time in NXT and you know you hear this so much and I started to maybe believe it as well and I was like why am I in this like performance

center doing like roll after roll and leapfrog drop down, drop down, and I run these drills. I just wrestled Abushi in front of 42,000 people at the Tokyo at all, like, four weeks ago. And now I'm in the performance center in a factory doing drills with kids who've never wrestled. And this was going on for about three months to the point where, like, I was, you know, I think I showed up one Monday morning at 8 a.m. for practice. And Terry Taylor was my coach, who I cannot speak more highly about. He's absolutely incredible.

And I said, Harriet, I don't want to be here. I feel like I'm just wasting my career. Like I'm 34. Like I need to be wrestling. Like, he said, Finn, I'm teaching you a style that you can perform for another 10 years. If you continue wrestling the way you've been wrestling in New Japan, you'll last about two more years. And I won't need to last longer than that. So he was very instrumental in like kind of helping me tweak my style to be more economical with my movements.

with my moves and really to go from being a good wrestler to being a star. And that's the person who I credit with that. And he taught me so much I cannot speak more highly about Terry Taylor. Are there moves you don't do anymore that you used to do? Of course, but nothing substantial. Like I still do all the stuff that I could do in my 20s. But now I do moves that the crowd react to. I don't do moves from me.

When I was in my 20s and 30s, I was wrestling for me. Now I'm wrestling for the audience. And I feel like that's kind of a really important thing for younger wrestlers coming up that they should learn that we're wrestling for other people. It's not like that they're paying their money to watch us to be entertained.

And you know they're being entertained when they're making noise and they're reacting. And if they're not reacting, it's because they're not liking the wrestling you're doing. It's not necessarily that it's bad wrestling. It's just they don't relate to it. And if I love technical wrestling, and that's where I've made my bread and butter in England and Japan.

But kids don't understand that. And we need to kind of appeal to the masses. And that's kind of how I've tried to like form. my matches now is like no will this get a reaction will they get a boo or a yay or a ah but it needs like an emotion attached to it it can't be just like oh holy shit that was awesome yeah so like i'm not into the like fast and the furious like action explosion match i'm into like the drama they're like you know so uh that's kind of what i more gravitate to now if the milestones were get to 30, get to 40, is it now, get to 50?

Now, it's just get to having fun and make sure that I don't want to overstay my welcome. I still feel pretty good. I don't feel like I've slowed down too much compared to 10 years ago. What are you talking about? Well, I don't know because I don't watch my matches back because I cringe so much. You don't ever watch them back. I like unless it's like really bad like that in the moments that like I didn't enjoy it in the ring and like I didn't feel like the crowd were reacting to it in the proper way like I'll watch it back to say well like you only watch your bad matches back yeah well like why ruin a memory right because I've lived it I've experienced it I've like felt the people yeah and like if I watch it back I'm only going to nitpick it apart and like go I wasn't as good as I remember so So maybe, like, you know, in 20 years and I'm all done, I'll go and watch things back.

But, like, just getting to live it and experience it, I think, is much more beautiful than, like, watching it on a TV. And, like, really the worst way to enjoy any sport is, like, on a little TV. Or now mostly people watching on the phone, right? So, like, I don't think anything beats, like, that, like, live experience and, like, that energy in the build and that, like, night. Have you watched back winning the Universal Championship? No. You've never watched that match. No. And you know what? I get I get like, like tagged in tweets like daily of like that spot and like I'll like scroll away before I hit the wall. Like I don't don't like seeing it. You don't like seeing it because it brings back a memory? It's just like why dwell on the past? Like you should be looking forward. Like can't change the past. Like it happened. so what?

Did you immediately know that your shoulder had popped out? Oh yeah. Because you can see the look on your face and then you go to put your shoulder back in like this has come out before. Do you dislocated your shoulder before? I had subluxated my shoulder a couple times before.

I'm not sure if it was the same one when I was wrestling like really early on in like maybe I was like 19, so probably like 2001. I tried to do like, this, you know the Tiger Mask flip where, like, the guy would be in the corner and he'd step up and flip over. Yes. And I used to be able to do that a long time ago. And, but I've done it to this guy that was wearing a shirt and a shirt like slipped as I was basing off it. So like as I was

coming back, I landed on my shoulder and it like, let my hand and it like overrotated and popped down. And then instinctively, I just grabbed the wrist and pulled and I felt to pop back in. So that happened, that had happened maybe two or three times then in the next two or three months, obviously because they didn't like heal properly. But then no, it had been fine for, you know, 10, 15 years. And then, yeah, hit the wall and rest is history, I guess, right? When you won that match, in that match, on a scale of 1 to 10, what kind of pain are you in? No pain, but I knew there was a big issue. And it had actually came out like three more times in the match. Because like anytime I lifted my arm to hit the ropes, it came out. I remember I got whipped to the buckle one time. It came out.

So I don't know if I've ever told this story. And I'm not sure if I should. But I remember at one point in the match. So me and Seth, I was very lucky to be in there with Seth when it happened because Seth is an absolute pro. And we were able to communicate, and I was able to tell him, hey, I'm hurt. So we were kind of like calling the match on the fly and editing spots and changing spots and talking the whole time.

So the match that we'd done wasn't actually the match that we'd laid out. That's still such a great match. Yeah. And I must give set credit because there was a point in the ring. We were outside the ring. And I was rolling them back into the ring

and I said, dude, I'm hurt. I don't think I'm going to be wrestling for a while. Like, do you want to switch to finish? And he said, no, stick to the plan. And I just rolled them back in and we stuck to the plan. And I often think, like, I wonder what that would have done for my career if we had a switch to finish. In what way?

Well, we're still talking about this 10 years later, right? And everywhere I go, every interview I do, I get, the question, hey, what would have happened if you hadn't got injured? Because you were the champ. But if I had got injured and lost, I just went away for nine months. But there'd be no, like,

sympathy from the fans, there'd be no what ifs. There'd be no. Well, it's not even sympathy, it's respect. It's like that guy was injured and still went through and still won the match. And it's like there's a lesson, I think, there of, even if things are difficult, you push through and you do it.

Yeah. like similar to what jd was saying on here about like you kind of compartmentalize when an injury happens and like you don't think about okay there's still whatever 18 minutes left in a match i just thought okay i'm laying on the floor on my shoulders out put the shoulder back in all right i'm still on the floor get back in the ring okay you're in the ring what's the next spot you know so you just kind of uh you know go step by step you don't really think it like the grander picture of just don't panic right and i think that comes down to like experience and obviously I was very lucky to be in there with Seth as well who didn't panic either.

So kind of trusting yourself and being able to get through it. And a lot of people, when things go off track in a match, they kind of get worried because they think everyone watching knows, but nobody knows because nobody knows the plan, nobody knows what you're planning on doing, what you want to do, how you want to get to this spot. So you don't have to stick to this plan. And people who beat themselves up,

ah, I forgot to do this spot or I skipped this bit. And it's well and good having a plan. But what you do is what counts. Yeah. So for me, my advice to younger wrestlers is don't worry so much about, like, hitting these spots or like remembering things or making mistakes. Just like trust yourself. And fans are very forgiving.

Like, you can see some of the stuff in the ring. Like, you see guys calling spots to each other. Fans don't care. And, like, we have this, like, unreal show that, like, completely exposes the business, which I'm not sure I agree with or not. Like, I know it probably brings in more fans. Like, I've become a fan of Formula One from watching Drive to Survive, which kind of, like, shows you, like, the behind the scenes.

Yeah. So I understand it brings in new fans and it shows, it gives people more. respect for what we do but it also takes away a little bit of that magic so I'm torn because I am old school and I was kind of trained the old school way but I'm working in the new era and so I know I need to find that balance and even like talking about this I feel awkward and I don't think I've ever even spoken disc candidly about like giving away k-fabe but I guess you're you got to change with the times, right? The other what if in that match is,

if you change the finish, do you ever become WWE champion? Because you won that night. It's a short run, but you were the champion. If you change the finish, who knows where it goes from there if you ever win the title.

Yeah, I could have been let go six months later before I even came back. Like, yeah, who knows? One thing that does bug me is that some people say, like, oh, that guy's injury, bro. Like one major injury in my whole career, like 24 years.

Apart from like a broken jaw, which like is a complete accident. Sure. Like, that's it, you know? Why do people think this? Yes. And look, they're both accidents too. Both injuries are accidents. No, absolutely.

But like, yeah, people can think what they want. It's not like you were running the ropes and you tore your hamstring or something. like he's torn plenty of muscles trust me yeah yeah yeah actually um I think we were going to talk about the edge cage match

sure yeah so yeah yeah so uh three weeks before WrestleMania 39 I get asked to do uh impromt I'm a raw performer

but they say hey can you can you come to Smackdown and do a match on Smackdown it's like a six man tag or something And I remember I grabbed Cruz Del Toro in her front face lock. And I step backwards to tag Damien. And as I step backwards, I tore my calf. I said, you go.

At first, I thought, like, Cruz was, like, messing with me. And he slapped me in the back of the leg. And then I looked down and his arms were around my waist. I'm like, oh, no. This is bad. So I tagged out. I'm like, I'm on the apron. I'm stretching it a little bit.

And I think. Doesn't feel too bad, but I got to get back in there. I'm like doing the math on my head. How long to WrestleMania? How long as a cavendry take to repair? While you're on the apron, you're... Yeah, and then I finished the match, and I probably made it worse by finishing the match

because, like, you know, put more stress through the tear. And people don't know. Like, I was on, like, one of those little scooters for three weeks. And even we done a promo, like, two weeks before Mania on Raw. And I actually... The way we done it, I think Edge was in the ring, and they just brought me out on the stage. But, like, we shot around it where I kind of, like,

limped out and just stood there and, like, stood on the stage, going, but I'll see you in two weeks at WrestleMania or whatever. And then, like, they killed the lights and, like, hobbled the back. And I got on my little scooter in the backstage. So, like, there's lots of, like, little injuries that, like, all the boys are dealing with all the time and we're trying to, like, work around. Did you know you'd get to Russellmania 39?

No, and there was, like, a conversation with Bruce, like, the next week saying, And it was actually right before that promo that we were doing that's, hey, can you make it? It's two weeks away. I said, dude, I can make it. Just trust me. I can make it. So I'm not missing a resume. How confident were you?

I was not that confident. But no, I was at the performance center every day. We have a great medical team down there. And really, like, the guys down there got me, like, right. It was right on the limit. And the day of, like, I was strapped up, I couldn't really like flex my foot the way it was strapped. And it did get helped by the fact that it was a cage match and they didn't have to move around

so much. And actually, a similar thing happened this year at WrestleMania with Dom was I had gotten beat up by the Judgment Day. I think I'd been out for a week. Dom was having a match against Penta on Raw. It's like three weeks before, mania. I do the run in, I come back, I beat up JD, I beat up Dom, I throw him over the top rope, and I'm in street clothes, right?

I'm going to do the dive over the top rope, but I'm in street clothes. So as I'm running, like I wear like baggy or t-shirts, and I go, oh, I haven't done the dive in a while. And I wonder, is this t-shirt going to, like, get snagged on the top rope? And am I going to, like, get stuck, like, top dollar, you know? And this one's going through my head as I'm running against the ropes. So as I'm coming back, I see the boys outside the ring. I said, I got to jump extra high and I got to tuck faster than I normally tuck because I normally kind of extend a little bit.

But I tucked early. And as I tucked, I popped a rib, right? In the air, not like on the landing or when they caught me, like in the air, I popped the rib. And I remember, like, the boys caught me gray, put me down. I stood up. I fired up like this and I said, fuck, I popped a rib.

Fuck. Oh, no. And then again, same situation. Three weeks to mania. How long's the rib take the heel? Shit, you know? So then now it was, again, just this last rest of the mania,

it was raced against time to get the rib. Problem with the rib recovery, you can't do anything. Yeah. There's no, like, rehab. You can't do anything, really. So it was kind of touch and go, and that was kind of a factor

into why the match was changed to a street fight. because it was able to I was able to like rely more on the on the toys like the weapons and stuff than have to actually you know wrist locks and twists and rolls and stuff like that so did you wrestle hurt yeah but just it's everyone wrestles hurt everyone's dealing with some issue yeah so like I'm not like you know trying to put myself over for being some badass like everyone wrestles hurt but a lot of people don't hear these little stories of like

the little issues that we go through. to get out there, you know? In that WrestleMania 39 match, was there ever a point where the match was about to be called off? Because you were bleeding a ton. So, me and Edge had spoke before the match. And I said, hey, dude, like, if you want to throw the ladder at me,

like, there was a spot where he was going to, like, hit me with the ladder. I said, dude, if I've got my back to you, just throw it and hit me in the back. if I turn, like, just hit me with it. So I'd still got my back and he starts throwing it, but I guess I turned at the wrong moment, and then no problem, I'll just put my hands up and block it. But it's a ladder, it's not a chair. So like the rungs were here and here,

and it just went right through my hands. And in that moment, my brain couldn't understand why it was still coming towards me because my hands were up. I was like, what's going on here? So I just went, and it hit me. I was like, that's stung, but it's fine, you know? So I'm just selling on the ring.

And then referee Sean Bennett comes over and he goes, but are you okay? I say, yeah, I'm fine. He goes, what day is it? I said, what day is it? It's not, it's a resumania, dude. You sure you're okay? I said, yeah.

I said, dude, you're carved open. I'm like, don't worry, it's fine. She's telling me we're going to stop the match if you don't get treatment. I'm like, don't stop the match. I'm fine. Just they're bringing the dock into the cage. So I crawl over to the edge of the ring where the door is for the cage, right?

So now the doctor's trying to get in the door, but the door's locked, right? They opened the door. Then she goes, oh, she left her medical bag over it because she didn't realize it was so bad, right? And they needed to staple me up. So then she has to go back out the door, which is on rampside, around the cage over to the bellkeepers to get the medical kit. She goes back in the door. and there's a camera here. Now, I don't know if the red lights on or not.

Now, thankfully, Edged, super experience, realize there's an issue. So he goes outside, keeps the cameras busy by like looking under the ring, taking out toys, throwing him in the ring. Meanwhile, doctor's going, dude, you're split open. Like, we got to staple it. I said, all right.

What are you waiting for? Stable it. She goes, it's going to hurt ourselves. It's WrestleMania, Doc. But at this point, then, the camera it comes around and it's here. And I guess they were just shooting, but it wasn't live. But I can't see if the red lights on or not because I'm looking at the dock.

So I start saying to her, stable it, because I go into demon character, right? To where the dog, Michelle just goes like, she gets scared because she'd never see me perform as a demon before. It had been a while, and she was like, new to company. So we always kind of giggle about that. But yeah, the staples went in. finished the mouth, it was fine. And I'd like, I'd love, I'm sure that.

It's like the exorcist. I'm sure that footage like lives somewhere and like maybe like if you talk to you, I was thinking of find that we can put it in here. Because I've never seen it myself. But like I remember like looking at it on, stable it. What hurt more? The latter do the head or the stables? Neither are really hurt at all.

What? Yeah, yeah. In that moment, like nothing hurts. If something hurts in the ring, you know, like, that's a serious injury. You know, like, if you really feel it, most of you don't feel like the next day. Man.

So we talk about you being in Japan. I'm so curious because you signed with New Japan in 06. Yeah. TNA's red hot at that point. Was there ever interest from TNA or WWE at that point before you sign with New Japan? No, not before then. I had been wrestling in England for about,

like five, six years. And I would, I'd kind of like liking it to like a fishbow. Like, you know, you can only grow as much as the pond is. And then I figured like I'd been wrestling here. I'd wrestled all the guys in the UK that like I was learning from. I said, I need to like take this to the next level and really learn. And so an Irish guy obviously has an aunt in Boston. So I said, I'm just going to go and live up like stay with my aunt.

in Boston for three months and I'd do the Indies around there. So I start doing the Indies around there. I get picked up by a scout Dave Marquez, who's involved in NWA Hollywood. He was involved in the in Okie Dojo in California at the time. He said, hey, why don't you come out and train with us for a couple of weeks? So I went out and I trained with those guys for a couple weeks. And kind of like, just to like learn a little bit of the Japanese style.

and by happenstance one of the days the president of New Japan had came to I guess scout somebody else that was training at the dojo and I was in the match with the person that they were scouting and after this scouting mission they came to me and said hey would you like to go to Tokyo and train at the dojo for three months as a young boy and so I said of course obviously

And so I went to New Japan for three months. The idea was just to train and be a young boy and learn. And after about three weeks, Liger came to me and said, he was the booker at the time. He said, hey, we're going to give you your first match. So, wow. So that's like how the New Japan stuff started. And that's really like what, like jumpstarted on my career there.

You know? So I was very happy in New Japan. probably about five years into that run when Dixie was in charge of TNA there was like a little bit of communication like the idea of going but for me like if I was going to leave New Japan

I was only going to go to WWE like TNA was cool and like at the time there was Kurt there was Chris Daniel, Samo Joe like it was there yeah it was an in incredible roster. But for me,

the idea of leaving New Japan, just, I wasn't ready to leave. I still, like, had stuff I wanted to achieve. And so,

yeah, I kind of toyed with the idea, but I was never really serious. All through this period, probably about four years in a row, WVE had approached me. But I didn't feel like it was the right move, because this was kind of,

It was still FCW. It wasn't NXT. And I felt like I'm not going to fit in there. I'm still kind of on the rise in New Japan. I'm still learning. I'm still like getting better. Like why cut my wings off, you know? And so I wanted to stay in New Japan.

And so they kind of came, W-W-W-Hit came knocking maybe three or four times and I turned it down. But when they finally came, I was like 33, I kind of realized, now is the time. It's easy to look back now with hindsight at how big the Bullet Club was. But when you were forming it, did you realize the implications I might have? No, not at all.

I just wanted to have fun. And originally, Bullet Club was, it wasn't supposed to be Bullet Club, it was supposed to be just me and Folle. Like so I'd been a baby face for like, you know, six years in New Japan. they wanted to turn me heel. And that was one thing then that made me stay in New Japan. So I was kind of thinking about, oh, maybe it's time to try WW now.

I've done everything in New Japan that I felt like I could possibly achieve. But then the idea came, hey, would you like to turn heel? I was like, oh, this is something new. Now it can be a heel in New Japan. I can learn more. So that's kind of what made me stay. And within like two weeks of having the conversation of putting me in fall eight together. It was Gato's idea who was the booker at the time, said, hey, why don't,

like, you're always with Carl Anderson. You're always with Tama. Before you guys are always together, why don't we make you guys a group come up with a name? So I kind of went to the three guys and say, hey, do you guys have any ideas for the name? They said, nah, you deal with that dude. That's, that's your department. So I went home, brainstormed a couple different names, landed on Bullet Club. once I turned heel, I think it was crazy because we had so much heat. I remember, like, Follet would be carrying me out on his shoulders at Corrigan Hall, and you kind of have to, like, walk through the crowd, and there'd be, like, fans hit me in the leg, like, punching me in the leg, like, giving me dead legs.

And then those fans, so many fans were calling the office to complain about Prince DeVitt cheating to win matches, that they had to set up a separate phone line to take complaints. Because, you know, there's so much respect. And I guess, like, it wasn't something that was done commonly or, at least recently in New Japan. Sounds like great deal work. Yeah. So, yeah, that was like lightning in a bottle. And it was such a short run for me in Bullet Club.

But, like, I look back on it, like, super fondly. And that logo is iconic. Yeah. Like, it's right up there with, like, the NWO logo or the DX logo. Yeah. that shirt got made by every indie wrestler, every podcast. Like, it's just iconic. Yeah.

I remember I went to, when I went to NXT, I was living in Orlando, and there was like a bullet bar in the downtown area. And they had, like, ripped off the shirt. And I'm like in the bar, like, looking. That's like my IP. Yeah. I'm like, the owner of the bars. Oh, yeah, this is our bar.

Like, welcome. But he was a cease and desist. But he had no idea that, like, like, like, That he owes you money. So funny. And it's iconic still to this day. Yeah, yeah. But look, that's not down to me.

That's down to everyone that was involved in Bullet Club. Like from AJ who came in after me, took it to the next level, then Kenny, Adam. Like, you know, everybody done such an incredible, the books. Like, it was a, yeah, it's a cool, it's a cool memory for sure. Do you prefer working as a baby face or as a hill? It's 50-50, really. Like, it's like anything, you kind of get, like, accustomed to doing something that then, like, you want to change. And I had been babyface for so long in New Japan.

I wanted to be a heel. Then when I came to WWE, they were like, no, you're a baby face. I'm like, cool, no problem. I, like, learned how to be a WWE-style baby face, which is very different than being, like, a New Japan baby face. So that was, like, a learning curve as well. But then, like, I'd done that so long that, not that it became boring, but it just felt like the same pattern over and over again to the point where, like, I just want to do something different.

And the opportunity came to turn heel in WWE, and it was super fun. I loved it. I think it's hard to have perspective on this because we're in it right now, but what do you think the legacy of the Judgment Day will be when it's all said and done? because you've had so many different members, different leaders, different storylines, but what do you think the legacy will end up being? I think it's underappreciated for sure right now, but I think the legacy is going to go down as one of the greatest factions in history.

Just for how it's able to change and evolve and have, you know, when they bring in different people, it kind of changes the mood of the group. I think it's still got like a long lifespan left. And that's credit to like all the different people that have been involved. And I feel like every different person who came in is like very, very different. And they kind of add their own little spice or their own little flavor to it. And that's what kind of keeps it fresh. Is it true the Judgment Day was going to be called street trash?

Or there was a moment where it was? No. No. So that came from. There was a program with Gunter, with either, I think it was Gunter and Dom, and he referred to us all as street trash. And we said, let's just lean into it.

Like, we're the judgment day, we're street trash. And we kind of just leaned into it. And, but it didn't really catch on. That was that. Yeah, people remember, like, Bullet Club and the demon. They don't remember, like, street trash. You know, it's not all, like, home runs, you know? What was the original?

idea for creating the demon original idea was i had recently turned heel and i was against i bushi into tokyo don which is like you know huge venue and i like to think about the live experience especially at that time i was more focused on like the live experience for fans than like what was seen on tv and in my mind i'm thinking okay this is a baseball stadium and there's people paying money that are like you know 200 meters away that are like looking at like two little tiny guys in the ring. And I'm against like the shining white light of Ibushi. So I want to be the darkness.

What's the longest amount of time you spent in makeup putting on the demon? Probably six hours. Six hours. Yeah, yeah. And then how long to take it all off? Longest. I'll tell you a story, right? So we done like a photo shoot at the performance.

And it was like a test paint on a photo shoot at the performance center. was when I was in NXT. And we done it on Friday. And, you know, the paint team had came and they painted me up. But then, like, I was going to train in it, do photos, work around, make sure it doesn't come off on the canvas and stuff like that. So after we'd done it, like, the team had gone. But they also didn't leave the remover, which you need a very specific remover because

this alcohol-based painted, like, I can stand in the shower, like, for an hour. and it'll just be perfectly on me. Wow. You kind of have to sweat it out through your pores and then you need like an alcohol solution to like break it down. So like it really, it really like chaffs your skin.

Like you'll be really red after it and stuff. But they'd gone. But this is a Friday night in Orlando. And my sister's getting married on Saturday in Ireland. So I have to catch a red eye at 10 o'clock from Orlando to Ireland. So, you know, we finished the, shooting at six o'clock run back to my apartment. I'm showering. I'm scrubbing my face. I get out of the shower

and I look in the mirror. There's still like teeth and everything here. There's a big eye on my back. I'm like, I got to go to the airport. My sister's getting married. So I get dressed. There's still demon on me here. I've got it like mostly off my face. Flight to Ireland, land, run home to my parents' house, get the suit on, like put this shirt and tie on. And I go to the church. But like, Little did anyone know. Like, if I had an unbuttoned my shirt, there's still, like, the demon under there. The demon in church. I know, yeah.

But thankfully, she got married by a humanist. She's very, like, you know, out there a little bit. And so it wasn't actually a church. And it wasn't, like, per se a religious ceremony. So that, like, gives me a little bit more. When did you finally get it off? Yeah, next couple days. Like, yeah.

That's wild. Yeah. Early days, like, you know, when the paint was like, another weird, I've never told this story before either. We done the demon in Saudi Arabia. I wrestled Andrade. And we've promoted the match. We fly to, we fly to Saudi. I'm getting painted.

I'm getting painted. I don't, this paint doesn't feel like the normal paint. What's going on? I asked the girl that was doing it at the time, I said, is this a normal paint? like, doesn't feel right. She goes, oh, no, they told me I couldn't bring the normal pain because it has alcohol in it. Alcohol's not legal here.

I said, anyone not think of telling me? Because I'm the one that has to wrestle in this. And she goes, oh, no, but I have a solution. I'm like, what's the solution? Well, if we use hair spray all over you, it like, it kind of sets it a little bit more. So, okay, well, you're the experts. So they paint me, they cover me in hairspray.

It's also like Saudi Arabia outdoors. So it's like 100 degrees, which is like whatever Celsius, like 38 or something like that. So pretty much by the time I've gotten to the ring, it's starting to come off. Right. So then, like, we do the match. It's a physical match. We're sweating like crazy. I start as the demon, I end as Finn in the match, right?

No problem. Yeah. So we get through the match. no injuries fantastic that's all I'm happy about right and I'm watching I think later on in the show was Undertaker Goldberg and I'm watching a match in the backstage like in a hallway I'm like looking at the screen and I'm like someone like hit a smoke machine in here like it felt like it was been smoked up you know like on the entrance but it wasn't it was just my eyes because what had

happened was the hair spray had ran into my eyes and burnt my retinas. Oh, man. And I went blind. And I was essentially blind where I had to be, like, linked by the guys brought out of the building, linked by the guys just carried up the steps onto the charter. I couldn't see on the flight. We landed in Germany to refuel the plane.

The dock had to leave the plane, go to a chemist, get, like, some special medicine to, like, heal my eyes. And then we flew when we landed in San Francisco, like, whatever. ever 15 hours later. Like, it was just starting to, like, unblur. But I guess all that hairspray had, like, irritated my iris so much that, like, I couldn't see. That was probably, like, the scariest thing that's ever happened to me in wrestling. Man.

Yeah. Was there a point where you're like, am I ever going to see again? Yeah. Like, I'm not, like, on the airplane, like, taken off out of Saudi. I can't see. I'm like, is this it? Good thing it didn't happen during the match. Could you imagine?

Yeah, I know. I know. Man. Yeah. Do you feel like the demon feels different now versus when you created it? Yeah. And I'll be honest, I feel like I'm still learning the demon. And I sometimes wish I'd done it more often because I really wrestle differently and I move differently and I feel different and like I emot differently when I had when I like put that pain on.

And I guess it's like similar to like a luchador when they put their mask on. They become that that luchador character. Yeah. And like even like Damien will tell you this. That like I'm Fergal. But when we're in the locker room, I can't even like sink at a match until I put my gear on. So it's just, hey, you got any ideas for the match? It's like, dude, I'm still on my clothes.

Like let me get my gear on and we'll figure it out then. So like he knows like, oh no, he needs to turn into Finn. and he needs to put on his gear before he can think about the match. But it's similar with the demon. I can't really turn into the demon until it's on, until the paint's on. So when there's a long period of time between doing the demon sometimes, I think it's been two or three years sometimes, that I kind of forget the movements.

And then it's very new to me. Once I get into the ring and the bell rings, a lot of that like body movements or like body language that's different than fin it's just coming to me in the moment and I wish that if I was doing it more often I would be able to like lean more into it and maybe portray the demon better or at least more differently and more uniquely than Finn but yeah I do like doing it. ever close to getting the demon versus the fiend? Yeah, I think that was certainly in the works

and something that I always think about and look back on and say, like I've been very lucky to have had almost every match that I've ever wanted to have, but that's one that, like, I didn't get to have. And we almost got Sister Abigail versus the demon. Right. And Wyndham had gotten sick

a couple weeks before. So that match, actually a couple of days before. We had to switch that match out, like short notice. I mean, what a match that ended up turning into. You versus AJ Stiles. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah, and I think that was like our first match ever.

AJ is someone who, like, I've looked up to my whole career, someone who I've admired and kind of, you know, you can kind of look up to people, but not really relate to them. Like, you know, I've always looked up to John, Sina, as like, you know, the pinnacle of being like a WW superstar. But I don't really relate to him in the sense of our journeys have been slightly different. The way we work is different. But like AJ, I feel like we're very, very similar. I was just like a couple years behind them.

So someone who like I've always like admired and aspired to be like. So getting to go in the ring with AJ that night was absolutely amazing. especially with like no buildup yeah and it didn't need a build up yeah yeah didn't need a buildup but it would have been fun i always look back and think like man we could have done so much more you know and if we had had more time to prepare our plan that was kind of like just thrown together on the day when you close your eyes what's the moment that you go to what's the moment you think of in in In wrestling, there would be, there's two moments. One, when I lost the NXT title to Samoa Joe and the house show and low.

And I remember taking the one, two, three and laying in the ring and just kind of looking over to the people in the front row. And there was almost like a silence and like a shock of disbelief. It's like, what has happened? What have we witnessed? And it just felt like really organic. And like no one saw it. coming and being able to like share that moment with Joe who like kind of took me under his wing

and like like showed me how to fight like because I was always like a rester and like smooth and everything was like deliberate but like he really showed me like how to like plant my feet and fight and like fight from underneath and getting to like learn from him for two years in NXT was like so instrumental in my development in my career. So I always look back at that, being able to share that moment with Joe. The other one is very recent. It was in Belfast against Pum. And just like the reaction from crowd and nights.

And got that my family there in her front row. Like 25 people. You get emotional. Why does it make you emotional? There's so many ups and downs in this business. And sometimes, sometimes you think like you've done it all. And like it's never going to get better.

And then it somehow did, you know. And it was punk as someone like, I'd never really interacted with much. I'd actually only met him one time in my life at Samoa Joe's wedding. Like, this is back. 2002, 2003, maybe. And then he had left WU when I had signed with NXT.

So we'd never really had any interactions. And I'll go on the record as saying, like, I'd heard horror stories about punk being this asshole, being difficult to deal with, being big-headed, this guy that no one wants to work with. And when he came back to WWE, it could not have been the opposite. I met this guy who was humble, polite, wanted to work with people. And I'm pretty sure he went to the office and he said he wanted this match.

Like, I don't think it came from the office. I think he came from punk. And the way like it unfolded, like that match could have been anywhere. I could have been in any random city in the United States, but it was in Belfast, like my home country. It was my mom's birthday the day before. So, like, she was there. And we'd done the match.

The crowd reaction was unbelievable. That crowd was so unbelievable. We brought back the old music. It was so fun. I was like enjoying it. I was like, wasn't, like, thinking about the match. I was just like living it. It was like easy to work with Phil.

It was like, we're just like having fun. We're talking to each other out there. It was great. Like we done the match one, two, three. I leave him in the ring. I walk to the back. And then like I hear him like, hey, where's Finn?

I can hear him on the mic. And then like the producers are running because I'm like toweling off and taking my tape off and stuff. Oh, fuck, that was so cool. I'm going to get to see my family now. It's cool. And then it's like,

punk's gone, yeah, in the ring. It's like, I walk back out there. I'm going to say. shit like i don't really like doing promos and stuff i don't like speaking in general like i'd rather just like rely on my my work you know yeah and uh he gave me the microphone left the ring i got to sing my mom like happy birthday from the fucking everybody it's the fucking coolest thing man yeah those are those are such special moments yeah and you clearly hold this in such high regard yeah yeah but then you think like can't it be

replicated. Like, it's a one-of-a-kind moment, right? I know. And then getting, like, the couple weeks later to do it again in Chicago with him, it was like tit for tat, you know? Yeah. And I think it meant as much to him in Chicago as it did to me in Belfast. Yeah. I think, like, we'll share it up on for a long time. How can you not be romantic about pro-rest? Yeah, I know. It's such a beautiful thing. Like, and, like, people say, this shit's fake. It's the first thing from Fagan to World. Yeah. What's the mindset you have about wrestling now?

We talked earlier about, like, it's changed. Do you think about wrestling into your 50s? I'll wrestle as long as the people have me to. They'll have you forever. No one's telling you to stop. Yeah, no, I don't want to stop. And, like, I always think, like, because I'm 44 now, like, and I look around the locker room,

like, a lot of the guys could be my kids. you know? And I still feel like that kid. And like I still feel like the new kid in the locker room. And I feel very lucky that I've got to do so much. And like guys will come up to me and they'll ask me for advice. I'm like, you're doing incredible. Like you're in WWE. You're a star. That's me for advice. Like look in the mirror. Look what you're doing. And so yeah, I'll just do it as long as they'll have me. You do a certain pose in photos. I'm glad you're changing the subject.

I don't want to cry anymore, dude. But I appreciate your openness, and thank you for that. What's the story behind this pose you do in photos? It's a very, it was a spontaneous moment. So we were talking about space earlier, and I'd recently moved to Florida, and Kennedy Space Center is just down the road. So I went to Kennedy Space Center with one of my buddies.

and he said, ah, Ferg, take a picture in front of the rocket. You know, there's a big giant, like, Atlantis rocket or something. And I was just, like, instinctive. I was standing in front of a rock, and I was like, what does, like, an astronaut do?

And I just like, like, that. And, like, that was the first one and I posted, and I guess, like, a lot of people I kind of, like, laughed at it and caught on. I was, well, what type of pose is that? And I just started, like, doing it from then. But that's, like, how it started. It was a complete happenstance.

And now it's the Finn Balanchance. Yeah, and like I stopped doing it when I turn heel. Like I stopped doing it. Oh, I'm going to be a bad heel. And I wanted to like change everything. And that's why like we changed the music and changed the gear and everything. And, but yeah, that's where the pose came from. People were so mad when your music changed.

Yeah. Like they loved that song. And now they're super happy that it's back. Yeah. But what was the reason behind the music change? First of all, I think the music, the secondary music, the heel music, version, I think it's like an underrated banger. Like it's cool. And

I haven't actually told anyone this, but when we were putting the match together, sorry, the music together, I was going back and forth with the music department. And they like give me a couple samples, a couple samples. I was like, no, no, no, it needs to hit more. And I kept saying, like Samoa

Joe's music, because like I loved how Samoa Joe's music was. You know, that like heavy, heavy beat. And, but the idea was like, the the baby face music like everyone like is so attached to it

that they didn't want to be walking out there as a heel to that music because they're still remembering the baby face and they're still going to want to do the thing and so I wanted to like take it away and it was the same like concept going back to New Japan like take away to the baby face squeaky clean good guy

like like cover myself head to toe and paint and so sometimes in wrestling, you're playing a part. And going back to what I was saying earlier about, like, I'm not performing for me, I'm performing for the people and I'm performing for the office. And if they want me to be a heel,

I don't want the crowd to be cheering me. I want them to be booing me. So that's why we changed the music. Then eventually I changed the gear. and you just need to kind of like adapt and change and try different things. And I really love wrestling like in the long, long pants and sneakers. It was great, especially like it was on an early match because I just put on a t-shirt and drive back to the hotel and get changed there and wouldn't really like bat an eye

versus like a guy in his underpants and like high boots, you know. Technically was it different wrestling and wrestling boots versus street shoes? I couldn't believe that I hadn't wrestled in street shoes my whole life. Because there's so little technology in a wrestling, like amateur wrestling shoot. Like it's just basically like a sock with like a little bit of a soul. So like the support they give you and the comfort and the cushioning. There's so much easier.

I'm walking around backstage because there's a lot of walk. These arenas are huge. You might get like 20,000 steps just in a day, just walking around the arena before the show. So, yeah, my feet weren't like not as painful anymore and stuff like that. You keep posting this video and edits of this video of J.D.'s head slamming into a locker. Yeah. Is there a certain version you love?

Well, I think there's the Tottenham version, which is like my favorite football team where it's like, Doof, Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Toot Do Totum. Which obviously, I love that one. 20th century Fox one is so good. His head's bashing on every beat. Yeah, I must say thank you to all the fans who sent those edits because none of those were made by me. The concept caught on.

Someone made one. I posted it and then it kind of like, you know, caught steam and like people started like making themselves. So like credit to the internet and the internet wrestling community. Like those guys were so creative. And like I love when they send me. like edits like that, videos like that, like pictures, drawings, anything that's like creative, like I love that.

And like if people can get to like express themselves through wrestling, like with their arts, it's like I love that. And also like I feel like this AI art like gets a lot like a lot of heat. Like I'm all for it. Like it's a tool. Like use it like spartingly obviously. But like if you can make sense. something fun that you can't physically make like with your hands in a pen like just do it how does fit or

how does jd feel about that at it i'm sure he likes it i'm sure he likes it i'm sure it likes it you posted a finskye picture the other day oh yeah that was so funny yeah that's actually an old one that was that that's it that's a guy who i've found online who he does a lot of different edits and uh he's super creative guy i'll give him credit and then Yeah, I love seeing all those things. Like, I think, like, the human brain and imagination is, like, so beautiful. And I think that's why I like the history, because I'm able to, like, use my imagination. And I like thinking about the future and, like, going back to interstellar, like, thinking about your imagination, like, what's out there.

Yes. And, like, just being able to create something that I wouldn't have thought of, I think, like, that's the most valuable thing in the world. like to be able to create something like from nothing. Like what is an idea? You know, like where does it come from? Like is it out there and it just pops in? Is it there all the time?

And I have to grow. You create it? Yeah. Yeah, I'm fascinated by that. What do you think is your greatest feud in your career? God damn. That's a good question. Probably Joe?

A lot of history with Joe. Yeah. Like I certainly wrestled him like, every night for like three nights, four nights a week for a year and a half. What do you think is my best? Joe, AJ, a lot of history with AJ, even if it's not within, yeah, but we didn't have many matches, which was the issue, you know. But I think that, like, real wrestling fans know the history from New Japan.

Yeah, but history necessarily isn't a feud per se, right? Sure. When I'm thinking about a feud, I'm thinking about on-screen feuds, and maybe, Maybe, like, maybe Bray, like I wrestle Bray a lot on TV. Yeah. Dominic? Definitely now, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, no, probably myself, to be honest, Richard, because I had battle with myself every day. Oh, that was terrible. No, I'm not watching. I'm like, is it Fergal versus Fergel? Fergal versus Finn? Fergill versus Finn?

Yeah. Triple friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know, but you'd have to ask other people what's the best, most important few of that. I don't know. How did you get a wrestling name that has an accent on it? Because I'm sure a lot of fans just type out B-A-L-O-R. Yeah, that was, I'll give credit to Robbie Brooks side for that, because we'd come up with the name. And the name is a very, like, tricky thing coming up with a new name because, like, there's no, like, emotional attachment to it. affiliation to it and the music too like when you get a new music when you walk

out there you have no memories of the crowd reacting to it before so it's all new I see you've no like emotional attachment to anything that's new right so that was that was with the music but also with the name and but the name my dad's name is finton to start with right so we shortened that but also in Irish folklore and mythology there's fin McCool which is kind of like the David character. And there is the baller, the one-night demon king, which is kind of like the Goliath character. And Finn McCool slayed the demon, Baller, right? Plus, it was an abbreviation of my dad's name. So we put the two together, and that kind of was the two sides

of Finn. Finn, Finn McCool, one-eyed, demon, baller. That's great. Yeah. I think a lot of people forget to put the... Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the action. Yeah. So the act. accent was, we had it actually up on the Titan Tron or Nxtetron, whatever you call it. We're up there. And it was before the show and Robbie Brookside was looking at it. He goes, you know, mate, you're Irish. Like, shouldn't be like, like, you know, like a little accent, like a fodda on there? I said, oh, yeah, yeah, we could put one on there to make it look more Irish, you know? So we put the fodda on the A. That's it. Yeah, that's it. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it was just like an aesthetic kind of thing. How are you feeling now? Like you talk about working through injuries all the time.

Yeah. Is there anything on you now that hurts? Nothing. I love that. Yeah. No, I feel great. And like, you know, aches and pains here or there. Like, but I think it's really important to take care of your body and train and smart.

I feel like my training has probably been one of the things that's helped my longevity for sure because a lot of guys train like bodybuilders. But like, we're athletes and like, we need to be moving. Like, I don't want to be tight. Like, there is an element. of bodybuilding in my training, but most of it's like movement, agility, and like functional stuff. Like that's that I can translate in the ring. Thank you so much for making this happen. This was a great conversation.

I could talk to you all day. But we can keep going. Can we? I feel like you need to get to Smackdown, no? Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, we don't need to do that? Yeah, yeah.

Sure. Is there a favorite match of yours that you feel like doesn't get talked about enough? Pete Donne in NXT. I feel like that second run in NXT is like one of my favorite parts of my career. And I feel like it really, my style and COVID wrestling was a great combination. Really? Yeah, because. Most people hated COVID wrestling.

Yes. And I'll explain this now, right? I can wrestle just like technically, which is what I love. like to do. But a lot of guys like to wrestle, like for the audience and the cadence of the audience. So, for example, block, yay, block, yay, bump, bump, duck, shoot, reverse. Yay. And they need the crowd to get that. When you take the crowd out of that, that cadence isn't there. So if you do that same sequence, it doesn't have the same effect because you don't have the audience interacting with it. Yeah, it's like a comedian telling jokes and there's no audience to laugh. Exactly. So

when we took the crowd out of it, well, when the crowd got taken out of it by COVID, and I realized, oh, I'm wrestling now for the cameras, not for the people. So I'm going to wrestle so the camera can shoot in tight on me. So now I can like manipulate joints, show the details, show the details that I can't really show to the audience that are here because they're not going to see it when they're like, you know, in row Z, but there's no one in Roe Z. Now I'm just wrestling for the people watching on TV. Yeah. So we'll get close in shots. So I feel like I was able to then revert back to like my technical wrestling style, like that I would do like a New Japan and stuff and kind of focus more on that. And that second run in NXT, being able to wrestle guys like Kyle, Pete,

Adam, I was able to, you know, go dive deeper into that style than I had in a long time and, like, kind of wrestle the way I wanted to for the cameras. And I feel like that run was, was one of my favorite runs of my career. Did you take that run going back to NXT as a demotion? Like you were doing big stuff on the main roster, and now it's back to NXT. No, not at all. It was a conversation I'd had with Triple H and Paul, sorry, Paul Heyman. And then NXT was going live for the first time. And they needed some guys who were able to, you know, deal with live TV.

I feel like maybe things in the WWW, like I wasn't going like that. I was just kind of going like that. And the idea was, hey, why don't we just go back to NXT for like three, four months, like help out with the live show. You know, we can rely on you in that sense. You can help some of the guys down there. And, you know, we'll bring you back in like three, four months. So it sounds great.

And then when I went down there, I think someone got hurt. And then they said, hey, can you be champ? I said, sure. And, you know, that was only going to be for, you know, a couple months. And then I think someone else got hurt and it ended up being two years. But I look back on that like so fondly. And like I really feel like I looked out because I was living in Orlando at the time. The full sale or the performance, and it was like 15 minutes from my house.

Whereas the Thunderdome was like two hours drive. Sure. Right. So like I was just having to like drive 15 minutes as opposed like two hours every week. And then also the guy. in NXT at the time were guys like that I really wanted to wrestle and kind of lent to that style that I wanted to do like especially Pete and then yeah I just feel very lucky that that kind of all kind of came together in favor of me and probably I benefited more out of COVID wrestling probably than anybody are you not in Orlando anymore and home in Miami now oh I used to live in Miami yeah I was on TV in Miami for years oh yeah ever put it on channel 7 you'll see Deco Drive the only show I was on. Oh, great.

Yeah, yeah. When you were a little boy growing up in Ireland, it's not like there were other Irish wrestlers in WWE you could like aspire to be like. Yeah. Look how many Irish wrestlers are crushing it now. Yeah. So I guess one is who did you look up to when you were growing up? And two, how have you guys taken over now?

Well, I always looked up to one, two, three kid. because it was the land of the Giants, right? And he was like the smaller guy. And like by no means is he a small guy. He's like six two. That's so funny. He's like he's six two, right? And when I met him in person, I was so, whoa, shut on.

And, and but that was kind of like the guy who made me believe. Like when I, you know, I was a huge fan from when I was like, you know, five, six years old, Ultimate Warrior and the face paint and, you know, my mom's running ribbons around my arms and stuff. but when I started to like develop as an athlete playing like gaelic football and soccer like I had this kind of oh I want to try this rest and stuff but I'm not sure if I can do it but like seeing like ex-pocker one two three kid he was the kind of guy that gave me the belief that maybe I can do it you know and then watching him like succeed in the like the land

the Giants was like a huge inspiration for me. So that was one person like in WWE land that I looked up to. And well like as like I got like later into my teens, like dying of my kid was someone I'd like really admired in the ring. And then other guys like Danny Collins, Johnny Saint, like from all world of sport stuff. But some of the Japanese guys like Hakushi I loved for his gear. and then when like he came to w wb a obviously and and wrestle there so it was yeah there was a lot of guys so how has it changed that like irish wrestlers are now you guys are just crushing it now

um i don't know i don't know but there was no wrestling in ireland obviously when i was like 18 and i used to read this wrestling magazine i've seen an advertisement for school in in england I said, all right, as soon as I finish high school, I'm going to go train with them. And, you know, having worked in the trains, I had, like, the free train pass on the boat, so I took the boat and the train. And funny story is, and I'd sent, like, the check for the training camp to the coach. But that went to his house. But, like, I'm a stupid kid.

So I just go, oh, well, I'm just going to that address. That's where the train is at. So I showed up to his house for the first day of training, which was actually like 50 miles away from where to train. So I was late for my first day training, like, by nine hours. But, yeah. Did you like knock on the door and you're like, no, it was a wrestling school in there?

So I'm very like, I compartmentalize everything in life. And for example, I don't look at where I'm going on a flight. I'll just look at, okay, the flight's at 7 a.m. I need to be at the airport at 6. You don't look at the destination? Don't look. And then when I get to the airport and I'm checking in, the lady will say, where are you going to?

Let me check. I'm going to New York. I'm the flight to New York place. So that's how I do everything. And that's kind of how I traveled to my first wrestling camp. And I figured, okay, I'm going to Ashford because that's where I sent the money to. and when I get the Ashford, I'll look up the street address. So I get the Ashford.

And I pull out the piece of paper at the time because there's no iPhones or anything, you know. And I pull out a piece of paper. And I go, oh, the training center is in a different town. It's in Sittenburn. So then I, like, go to this guy at the train station because there's no phones. You got to talk to someone. I say, hey, I'm in the wrong town. I'm trying to get this sit and burn.

And he goes, oh, no, you got to take a train to here. You got to change there. And then you got to take that train back there. I'm like, oh, no. You eventually made it that day? I made it that day, but I missed the first day's train and I walked in as they'd ended class. You'll never believe this story.

Were they like, where are the how you been? Yeah, we didn't think you were going to show up. And I was with my buddy Paul, who I started out with and grew up with. And yeah, we showed up late and we thought you guys weren't turning up. And it was pretty interesting because we'd kind of been doing backyard wrestling and like school yard wrestling. And I actually recently found a DVD. Someone had like burned a couple of years ago of like a tape of me wrestling in the school yard. And it was on like the feet like the soccer pitch.

And I'd called it grassroots wrestling. Right. Which I thought was a pretty cool name. Right. But yeah, that first week of training, because I'd like, I knew how to kind of, I was a pretty good athlete, and I'd kind of figured out the mechanics of the moves

from watching it so much. I'd always like Razors Edge or PowerBomb my brothers, like on the couch and stuff. And we would, you know, wrestle in school. So I guess the coaches could kind of see this that I had the mechanics right. And they moved me from like the beginner's class to like the advanced class on like the third day of training and i remember like on halfway

through the third day like i said to the coach and say hey like this is cool but like i want to learn like that stuff like i want to learn how to really lock up i want to learn how to like do a wrist lock and do the resting part this kind of stuff i can figure out later but i want the details like the stuff that i haven't tried myself and and actually i always tell you people this when they ask me for advice on training and I feel like that the most overlooked thing in training is the lockup that you know you start in a wrestling school and you know first day we'll be you know we'll do a lockup headlock and maybe we'll run the ropes and bumps or something but once you kind of do the lock up that's it okay i know how to do a lockup and then we never

train that again but that's the most important thing in the match it's the first thing everyone sees that's your first like introduction to the people right so if if that's not looking good you lose the people straight away and so I feel like that should be practiced over and over and over again and I also feel like I've been very lucky in my career that I trained in England for you know five six years but then when I went to New Japan I was treated as a young boy so I had to train again so then I trained again and I was pretty much a young boy for maybe five years until I kind of graduated. And then I didn't have to per se do all of the training for the last three years. But then when I went to NXT again, I was treated like a new guy.

I had to train again. So probably like the most overtrained like the rest are like a lot of people would see that as a detriment. A lot of people would be insulted. I don't need to train again. But why wouldn't you want to practice something that you love? and why wouldn't you want to get better at something that you love?

And like, I don't think like Picasso like just painted one painting and then I said, that's it. He painted the same painting like 500 times but he presented you one but he probably like done it like 500 times in his in his studio or whatever. And I feel like that's the way

like you should approach everything. Like just keep drilling it. Keep. Make it muscle. Make it automatic. And that's how like you become in the moment in a match. You're not thinking about the moves. You're not thinking about, oh, what's next? Oh, what's this spot? It needs to be like repetition where you're not thinking about what you're doing.

You're just flowing. And that's when you get to hear the people. That's when you get to like, control the audience or go off script, right? And this thing about staying on script, well, we talked about it in the back, so we got to do it this way. But you got to do it for the people. not for you. Yeah. So not worrying about the mechanics of it allows you to listen more and feel more and emote more. And I feel like that's how you really take it to the next level.

Do you feel like compartmentalizing has helped you in your wrestling career? Because it's not, it's probably not just, I'm traveling to this place at this time. It's you're compartmentalizing everything. Yeah. Like, yeah, like, it can be very overwhelming. Like, you're on WrestleMania. There's millions of people watching. There's a massive audience.

Like, all your bosses are super stressed that they want it to be, like, on point. Like, and if you start thinking about all of those things, it could be overwhelming. But what's, what can I control? Okay, put my gear on. Okay, get warmed up. Like, don't think about everything. Just think about, like, warm. thing.

Next thing. Yeah. That's actually brilliant life advice. Yeah. John Cena said three words in an interview. I'll never forget. Control the controllable. Yeah.

Because you can't control what other people say, what other people do. All you can change and react to is how you react to that. And actually that's something also that I feel like I've applied to myself in my training and my physique is that that's the only thing I can control, right? I don't choose who I wrestle. I don't choose how long the match is going to be. I don't choose where I'm wrestling, but I choose how I train and what I eat. That's the only thing I can control.

And obviously, be professional and show up on time. Sure. Yeah, your attitude. Yeah. There are the things I can control. What the office want to do with me or how the crowd want to react is, like, that's on them. So I can't worry about that.

I can just worry about me and hopefully everything else. By me investing in myself will then, like, you know, help. Yeah. Okay, I want to be super respectful of your time. Thank you so much for making this thing happen. I'm going to ask you the question I ask everybody at the end. Yes. Gratitude's a huge focus of my life.

Yeah. I wake up every day, say, I allow three things I'm grateful for, kind of sets the tone for the day. Yeah. Before I go to bed, my wife and I do the same thing. We list off three things we're grateful for. What are three things right now, Finn, that you're grateful for? My family, meaning my wife and my family in Ireland, my health, and my job.

I love that. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. Long time coming. We did it. Yeah. So thank you. All right, thanks, mate.

The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. Soccer Podcast. The place where I. Megan Klingerberg, a World Cup expert, teaches you everything that you need to know for this summer's World Cup. How special is it that we've been able to follow this young group of guys? It's been such a roller coaster of emotions. I think you can feel the intensity. Quite a bit of time, energy effort. Everything along the way on these guys making the country proud.

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