Insight with Chris Van Vliet - GUNTHER Is Surprisingly Funny! Making WWE History, Losing 65 Pounds, Learning To Speak English

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

GUNTHER (@gunther_AUT) is a professional wrestler and the longest reigning WWE Intercontinental Champion of all time. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about making history in the WWE, whether or not he celebrated on his record-breaking night, who his favorite title defenses have been against, the difference between WALTER and GUNTHER, how he made a major body transformation and lost over 65 pounds, the viral photo of him and Ludwig Kaiser, how he learned to speak English from wrestling, wrestling against Chad Gable, why he thought WWE was never going to sign him, long-term storytelling and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: A work of art does not answer questions, it provokes them; and its essential meaning is in the tension between the contradictory answers. - Leonard Bernstein Sponsors: FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% NORDVPN: Try NordVPN risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! https://nordvpn.com/cvv For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are go. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Believe! All right, my friends, welcome back to another one on Inside. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you so much for being with us.

And thank you, yes, you, for making Insight one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. And this is a guest today that I've wanted to have on the show for a while. If you follow me on social media or if you subscribe on YouTube,

you saw that I did a five-minute interview with Gunther at SummerSlam and Detroit. Oh, by the way, quick time out. I never know to say Gunther or Gunther. So for the sake of today's episode, it will be Gunther. I hope that's okay. It was so good getting to know him here because he's so much more than just the longest-ranking Intercontinental Champion of all time. He's like shockingly funny and like also very challenging.

charming. And the more this interview went on, the warmer he got. And you're just like, man, this is someone I would love to have a beer with. So maybe round two here. When that happens, maybe it'll be us sharing a beer. Man, that'd be fantastic. If you are one of the many, many people who listen to this show and haven't hit follow yet, first of all, shame on you. No, not shame on you. but if you could do me a huge favor that would take approximately two seconds of your day, if you've ever enjoyed any of these interviews, could you please hit follow wherever you're listening to this right now? That following the show and leaving a review are the two biggest,

most helpful things you could do for the show. And yeah, we're a top five podcast in the world right now, which is pretty crazy. I say this all the time. It's like Jim Cornett, Bruce Pritchard, and Eric Bischoff, and than us, which is amazing.

But the bigger the show gets, the more people that hit follow, the more people that leave a review, the better the guests we can get. And we're really ramping things up as we end this year and we start 2024. So if you could hit follow

and also, if you have some extra time, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or hit those stars on Spotify. Man, that would go such a long way. And if you enjoy this episode in particular, snap a screenshot. And let us know what you liked. Let us know that you were listening and tag us both so we can retweet it and we can share

it on Instagram and Facebook. He's at Gunther underscore A-U-T. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and I seriously think you're going to love this. And I know you're listening to this and you probably already really appreciate Gunther. You're going to appreciate him so much more after this. So please enjoy this conversation with Gunther. Well, so good to see you again. Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, thank you for having me. I feel like the world of pro wrestling moves so fast. I'm curious if you've actually had the time to sit and realize just what you've done and what you're currently doing with the Intercontinental Championship. I'm aware of everything that happens, but I don't allow myself to lean back and rest on that, to be honest. I don't think that's the time, not the time for it right now. You don't seem like the type of person to celebrate, but I'm curious. When you did break the record, did anything happen that night?

Was there any sort of celebration in Charlotte, North Carolina? Well, we had the celebration in the ring, to be fair. That was very nice with the fireworks and everything. I enjoyed that a lot. But no, I think on that day, nothing happened because I bet my flight home the next day was at 6 a.m. How about when you got home? Did anything happen when you got home? No, not really.

No, I like to celebrate. I like to celebrate personal events a lot. But professional things, we've got to put the work in first. And then later on, there's going to be enough time in my life where I can celebrate it over and over again. So what does a personal celebration then look like? Is it smoking a cigar or is it having a drink? Yes, it depends. So smoking a cigar and having a drink, being with the people.

close to you, that's very important. And that's actually all I need, to be honest. I think at the end of the day, with everything that you've accomplished here, what's so cool is seeing that long-term storytelling is a thing right now in WW. Romans on this incredible historic run. You're on this incredible historic run as well. What does long-term storytelling mean to you? Good long-term storytelling.

I think often doesn't get realized because the point where you realize it that the dots connect happens later. That makes sense. It's almost the same when you watch a TV show and you go like, they forgot about the thing. They don't bring it up again. But at the end, it's like a major factor for a big happening. And everybody goes like, ah, now I get it. But I think especially in WV, it's super important because we have a way. weekly program.

And I think it's one of the, I don't even know if any other entertainment company faces the same challenges as WV does with, yeah, bringing on, let's say, innovative content week by week that keeps the people hooked. And just with that, it's not just, it's not just writing for like a TV show or something. that you're going to add all the physical action to that into that. So that means people are going to get injured. People can't get in the ring for many other reasons. That makes it even more tricky.

At what point during this run did you realize this was something special? So it sounds weird. I always had to. There's a certain reaction I want from the audience. When I wrestle, I have serious. interest in a match where it's always loud and everything gets like a signature chance, but this and that, blah, blah, blah. I love when people are just silent at the beginning of the match and don't say anything and

just watch it because there is nothing where they can go, ah, yeah, boo, or anything like that. They just watch the X. But once the first flight important thing happens, they come up and they're into it. And I try to get people drawn into the competition. when I'm in the ring and I try to develop drama in the competition and it's often when that is successful

you get a different reaction to what you do in the ring than most of the other matches I just had that feeling again we just did live events in Tennessee and in Virginia and I was wrestling semi sane and I was very happy with those matches

we had there because the people yeah took what we did it was an important match it was an intercontinental championship match something was on the line and both gave it their all

and that was exactly yeah that effort was reflected by the audience and yeah those are like the moments where that's what I'm looking for it was like people watching a match and go like okay we're witnessing something here that is important

that has some magnitude it's about a title And that title is really important. I think, yeah, I just tried my best to explain the vibe I'm looking for in the audience when I wrestle. So look, we're sitting here right now. You've been the Intercontinental Champion for 520-plus days and counting. At what point was it a weekend? Was it a month in? Was it six months in that you went, oh, I'm starting to make this feel maybe more important than it's felt in a long time?

Oh yeah, definitely. But that's something I could kind of tell almost from the get-go, I would say latest from the Clash of the Castle match on, where I felt like, okay, people are looking at this title or whenever the title is on the line in a different way now. But that's what I'm aiming for. I think a title, obviously, that title can elevate a wrestler. But at the end, it's always the champion himself who makes.

the title. And I've always been, when I try to do something in life, but especially professionally, I go full in or I don't bother doing it at all. So ever since I am the intercontinental champion, the only thing I'm doing is focusing on how to be the best intercontinental champion possible. What do I have to do? How do I have to carry myself? How do I have to act in the ring to give it that recognition. And yeah, it all worked out very well so far. This episode is brought to you by Bond Charge, and I have been loving their infrared sauna blanket.

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It's a soda blanket? This deal is hot. Go to bondcharge.com slash CVV to save over $170 this holiday season on that infrared sauna blanket. Survivor Series is this weekend, and what do you think? Is Gunther going to retain the Intercontinental Championship against the Miz? The odds at mybooky.orgie.orgia say, yes, he is, in fact, going to win that match, but what do you think? I know you're a big wrestling fan. That's why you listen to the show.

That's why you enjoy these interviews. Why not take that wrestling knowledge that you have and make a little bit of money on it? Instead of complaining about how predictable the outcome of some of these matches are, why not hash in on it? At mybooky.orgie.orgie, you can bet on everything. So we're talking, of course, football and UFC and boxing, but yes, you can bet on WWE. Let me say that one more time.

You can bet on WWE PLEs like this weekend's Survivor Series at mybooky.orgie.org. And if you haven't signed up yet, do it now. Use my promo code CVV, and you'll grab a free cash bonus on top of your first. deposit. The link is in the show notes, but once again, that promo code is CBV at mybooky.orgie. I feel like the Miz was the person before you. It's so fitting that you guys are wrestling each other at Survivor Series because I feel like he was the person before you that really

made the title mean something. And I'm curious, if you remember something specific from any of his previous Intercontinental title reigns that he had. No, I don't remember anything specific out of the Mrs. Curry. I can promise you that. I said it before because I don't know. I forget the years. I don't know. Maybe it was like I'm really bad with that. 2010 to 12 or something

like that. I don't know. But there was a time when I came up as a wrestler or even later. I didn't bother watching WWE because it was really not my thing. I like Japanese wrestling. I lot. Some of the indie stuff and that's where my focus was that I watched for personal entertainment but also like the guys to like Japanese matches stuff that happens to how

could I use it so the miss for me was always the embodiment of that area when I didn't like to watch WV at all um so getting in the ring with him now is fantastic um especially especially in WV and it's about the intercontinental championship and it's basically the match of who really is the greatest intercontinental champion of all time And I'm really excited for the match. Honestly, because I think when I joined the main roster, was clear from me, I need to make a statement. I'm not a guy out of that system.

I've been in the NXT UK. I've been a little bit in the NXT, but all my developments, all my, whatever, like character building, figuring myself out and all of that. All of that happened way before a WWE, so I'm not the typical AI. Mears, on the other hand, is a prime example of how good their development system is,

because he started with them, and he's one of the most decorated names they have. And I feel like especially in the presentation of the company in the general media world, he's just a very few have done better than him. So I wanted the challenge. It's like, okay, I need to, I'm still a little bit of a new guy here.

I'm definitely still in WV, I'm a little bit outsider, if that makes sense. That's at least how I feel when I watch it. I'm not the typical WV wrestler. So I always wanted to be in the ring with the miss, because first of all, he has that background with the Intercontinental Championship. And secondly, that's a great measuring stick for me,

if that makes sense, because it's a little bit of clash of two worlds. So with all that said, what's really interesting about your career is it was almost 14 years into your wrestling, career that WWE, you know, found you and signed you. Was there any point along the way when you didn't think you were going to get that big break? Yeah, always. I was sure because 2005, I had my first training, right? And then a few years in, whatever, the wrestling scene in Europe, and especially the German-speaking countries, was so small. Like, nobody gave a thing about it. It wasn't on free TV. Like, in general, the

public nobody you get looked at weird when you watch wrestling like most people didn't even know what's going on like it was not a it was not a topic in the mainstream entertainment world so all of that was so far away it's like even like 10 years ago if somebody from England I think like Shamers and Drew and Stu were like one of the first exceptions for Europeans to go there and actually make it or be somebody or Cesaro and then for a long time, there was nothing. It was just something that is, well, that's not realistic, so don't aim for that. My goal was always, I want to make a living of being a professional wrestler. That was always my goal. I want to make this my profession because I know something

about it now. It's like I have a passion for it and I don't want to work a job that just force the hell out of me. So I always wanted to make it a profession. When I achieved that, that was already something unheard of. when I became full-time wrestler and I had to be self-employed basically. And to every agency or every government body I had to go for whatever loss, pension, health insurance and all of that stuff. I got looked at, yeah, like an alien. Like, what is your job? Because I think at that time I was the only person in the whole of Germany that was, yeah, a wrestler by profession.

That was already like a big step. then everything else just fell into place over the time. The Indies changed big time. It was before COVID. There was such a big boom in the indie scene in England, especially, but all like in the States as well. And WBE decided to open the doors to, yeah, the independent wrestling world and also to Europe.

So that's brought up a lot more possibilities, obviously. And then everything just fell into place. So, yeah, it was never my big dream to go there. I think I was more passionate to wrestle for All Japan once at some point as like a big dream than being with W.E. How old were you when you learned how to speak English and how did you learn to speak English? We had it at school, but I wasn't good. It was really bad. I only picked it up for wrestling.

So maybe I started. That's hilarious. Yeah, I started speaking to. You don't have a Jim Ross accent then. I started speaking English, I would say, more regularly, like 2012, 13, when WXW always had English and American guys around and then, yeah, just have to make it your second language a little bit.

My first language, no, I feel like I don't speak German and that often. I feel like that's, I'm always so impressed because I speak one language. I'm from Canada, I live in the U.S., but I speak one language. I speak Canadian English. I speak English, right? The fact that you can speak more than one language, I think, is this, it's almost like a superpower. Well, thank you very much. Still learning it, it's like whenever I have a conversation going on or I hear word that I don't understand, all of the context and stuff.

I try to Google it right away and remember for next time, so I know that. But, yeah, obviously, my wife is English as well. So it's the language of the house as well. stuck with it. But I got to be, I mean, I say thank you. It's a compliment. But I also have to say English is very easy to learn compared to German or like French, for example. Those are the languages that are way more complicated than English. There's a reason why it's the world language. It should be easy to learn it. So there's this photo that has been floating around online for months of you and Lou Geyser. Have you seen this photo of you guys? You're very young. Do you know the one I'm

talking about. Oh, yeah, many times. Yeah. How old are you guys in this photo and talk me through what's happening here? I can tell exactly what happened there because we just talked about it yeah, on Monday on at Raw because somebody backstage was asking us about that. It was literally, I think the first time we actually met was that day because that must have been after a wrestling show in Northern Germany where I was booked and I think Marcel's coach was booked so he was around and there was a little bit of a party afterwards i don't know the occasion for uh in the wrestling school myself was training and that's where yeah that picture happens so basically out of we all got drunk after a wrestling show but the funny thing is both of you guys

pretty much unrecognizable in that photo oh yeah the i guess the weight i dropped he gained over the time. But yeah, it is. It's very nice. It's just a reminder of why you should take pictures for your own collection because that's a good example of

like obviously it's really nice to look back now, like look at us now and then look back where basically we ran into each other the first time. Yeah, it's nice to look at that. If you put a photo of Walter and Gunther side by side, I think there's a lot of people

that wouldn't believe that that's the same person. Oh, yeah. It's like when I see it now, like, when I see it now, I'm shocked. I'm like, oh, my God. But before, when I was my old me, I didn't feel like somebody

that is a little bit too heavy or something like that. Like, I didn't feel like an overweight person or something like that because it was always very comfortable. Like looking back now and seeing the difference. it's like, oh my gosh, like how... I mean, you know, if you work on yourself,

you know how it is, like, because you never start to, like, you can be on a diet and feel really shredded, but then you go out for one really good meal and the next day, you feel like, oh, my gosh, everything's out of the window, right? So funny enough, sometimes with feeling-wise, it goes like, I don't know,

I'm good most of the times anyway, but then we go out for a nice dinner or something, have a few drinks, the next day, just body-feeling-wise, I feel like, oh, I'm the old me again. But that's obviously, not true, but that's how your mind tricks you a little bit. But what was the first step towards making that transformation?

Because, I mean, you truly do look like a totally different person now. Oh, yeah, it is definitely. I mean, like the first step was like my, we've been during COVID, like we have a friend that is like a bodybuilder and he's coaching people. I think he's owning a gym now and runs it and stuff. And he started to help Kaiser and Gio with their diet a little bit. And they were following their diet. They got an incredible shape.

So we had that guy around. And I was never really, that's the one thing I have to say. Usually I was always in top of things in my life, in my adult life. But the diet is always something I kind of like neglected because it was good the way I was. But when I signed for the main roster and I knew, okay, I'm moving over now, I know I'm going to be on national TV. I thought, okay, let's bring, yeah, let's bring the best version of yourself. You can. You're going to be in front of millions of people every week.

I think that step is necessary now. And yeah, I'm glad I did it. I feel like the independent wrestling Walter that was a little bit bigger and it looked like a butcher from the next door shop. that was cool. I think that was fine for them. And I feel like for the wrestling enthusiasts on the independent market, like when you think back like Stan Hansen or Terry Gordy, like the bigger guys, I think it has its place in wrestling a little bit.

But I felt like it's time to make a step and progress. I'm always so curious. I've always been so curious when you were Walter, why was it in all caps like you were yelling your name at us? Because of Kenta and there was the other guy called Suba

from Noah back then. I think it was Subaru, the big heel. And I thought, and I was first on the Indies of the baby face, I was Big Daddy Walter. So I was like, I'm going to be a heel now. So what are we doing? I said, you know what? Just Walter, but dude, all caps.

I think that looks amazing. And yeah, I did that because like when you watched Noah, back then pro wrestling Noah, you would always see the match lineups, but it was all Japanese, so you wouldn't understand one. But Kenta, Kenta was always the five big letters. So, you know what, it's a good way to stand out. I'm going to do that as well. So with the correct way to spell Gunther now, is that all caps? That is all caps, definitely.

Then we go. The title of this video that it's going to be on all caps. Now we know. Everyone talks about how hard your chops are. In fact, when I saw you last time, you were talking about how you used your hand and your forearm, who's chopped you the hardest? I don't know.

I don't really take a finger. I was shocked one time. I remember at restaurants. In Germany back then, I was wrestling Pentagon, actually. And I chopped him, and he chopped me once, and I was bleeding right away. It was like, what is going on? Some of the Mexican colleagues, I got to say,

they chop like it's a the move in is a little bit like it's a whip if that makes sense because they chop from overhand most of them do that is painful I gotta say what would you say give us like maybe three

would have been your three favorite championship defenses that you've had as the intercontinental champion as the intercontinental champion I would say WrestleMania for sure Seamus and Drew What a match.

I was there for that. Incredible. Thank you. I was very happy with that. In general, it was a great day and weekend for me. My family was there and stuff like that. It was overall a really awesome experience. I would say Chad, the Chad Gable.

It felt good. I love an underdog scenario, like David Goliath scenario. Whoopi number three. Pleasure to cattle was good, but I've already mentioned Seamus and he doesn't deal too well with too much attention

so I can't I can't mention him again. Who else did I have? I think Drew, the thing is like Summer Slam against Drew I think was a match that was really proud of as well

because Drew is such an established guy in W.E. And if you look at his story, it's very impressive, I think. He was the young guy that got kicked

but he wasn't like or let it be he hurt his teeth and worked himself up again and then he worked himself up to the he was the champion he beat Brock at the WrestleMania and even though nobody was there was still

WrestleMania like it figured out a way to like really belong in that top picture of the company it's like you would see Drew McIntan and as okay that guy people turn around when that guy enters a room right so yeah he's

so being in the ring with him and having that kind of match with him at summer's lamb i really liked that it was like it for me it was a big test to have that match with drew and just to see if i can uh yeah just hang with him in there on that stage and having a match up that magnitude you're certainly the person that people think of when they think of this current design of the intercontinental championship because you held it for so long who is the person that you thought of when you were a kid when you thought of the intercontinental championship um i I think Sean.

I grew up like the first time watching the VHS back then. It was the time when Sean had the latter match with Razor and Sean against Jeff Jared Rumble 95 for example. And then Sean had his thing of like walking out with the title, right? Getting counted out. So it doesn't lose the title. They should have been really quicker with adjusting that rule, to be honest. He got away with that quite often.

The lack of what I have to say. by management yeah um no but john would be the guy i would uh connect with that yeah were you with sean guy growing up yeah like i wasn't i wasn't anybody's guy to be honest i really enjoyed wrestling and a lot of aspects of it so i didn't really have that one favorite where i was like yeah there were times i enjoyed the undercard and midcard matches more than the actual main events because I feel like, especially like in the early 2000 sometimes they felt for late 90s, it was always the big outside brawl in the main events before something happened in the ring. And I like the matches more when it got to the actual quick.

I feel like we get such tiny little slivers of who you are outside of the ring. And sometimes you give them to us. Like when you got married, congratulations on that. Thank you. What makes you decide to give us these little slivers? slivers into your personal life. You make me all to seem like a big strategist when it comes to that. Are you?

I'm totally not. In general, often I just operate like and I just do what feels right if that makes sense. Even if it's something that would benefit me, but it doesn't feel right for me to do, then I'm not going to do it. And sometimes it feels right for me to share a little bit of my price. life, but I like to have that, in general, I like to have that as minimal as possible. I don't like the idea of oversharing your own life or whatever, reach or interaction and stuff like that.

At the end of the day, I don't feel, I don't, yeah, I don't think it's a, it's healthy if that on-screen persona and Gunther and my personal self would melt and become the same person. I like to have a little bit separated to me. But I mean, when you scroll through your Instagram, it's like it's all, you know, your accomplishments in WWE and you keep scrolling and you scroll some more and then you're like, oh, there, he's a real person here. And then you keep scrolling and more WW. Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, especially on social media and stuff, that's what it's there for to, yeah, promote my career and promote myself. It's a tool for that. and most of the personal happenings

can only share in a very small circle. I don't know if everybody has picked up on this, but there are occasions when you call it the Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship. When did you start working heavyweight into it? When I was reading it, when I was reading that it was on the title, actually. It says on the title, Heavyweight.

So it was like, okay, I have to say that. That was all it was. I wasn't really paying attention. that but at one point I was just looking at the title and look like fast heavyweight yeah the intercontinental heavyweight champion from now on so obviously it just feels like a little thing that is like I don't know it's it's taken it up just even another notch now yes um obviously it helps it's like I feel like because we all grew up with like what was the most popular boxing matches heavyweight fights we grew up one of the most popular wrestling

matches, the big heavyweight matches. You know what I mean? What's the main event in Olympia weightlifting? The heavyweight. It's always that, I think, because we grew up with that a little bit. So when you add that to the title, it just helps, yeah, just makes it appear even more

significant than before if it makes it. When you're at home like you are now, I think you're at home right now, right? I am, yes. Is there a place for the intercontinental heavyweight championship? Does it live in a certain spot? Yes, on top of my suitcase.

Ready to go. Ready to go again, because I got to pack it in Wednesday, today, two days. What has been your greatest story of taking that championship through TSA at the airport? Oh, yeah, there's no, it's a... In Orlando, it's actually good because there's so many wrestlers living in Orlando that by now they kind of know when they see it. okay, it's title. And look, who is that? Oh, it's those guys again.

They know us there. That's good. But sometimes people get carried away a little bit. There were a few situations where I had to be like, do your job, sir, thank you. When they start, like, taking it or showing it off or whatever, it's not a toy. Put it back.

Do your job. Thank you. But as a champion, that's my job. That's why I carry it with me, so nobody can mess around with it. I can only imagine a TSA agent bringing it out and attempting to challenge you for it or something like that. Oh, yeah. You hear everything. There was one guy actually was quite funny because I had a streak of like annoying incidents there and it takes forever.

And I got to go to the flight. And this time I was annoyed already and it went to the side. And I said to guys, I actually was like, not again. And he was like, no, no, that guy, he looks, he looks serious. He looks like he knows what his job is. and I talk to him and I turn around and I see that guy grabbing my suitcase lifting it like that

over his head, working towards me and he slammed it on the table, opened it up, took the title out. Said something stupid. I was like, I had enough.

I was like, okay, guy, do your job, put the title bag of it. But that's, uh, that's part of it.

In general, but I like the idea of like that the champion carries the title by himself always did that. I was on the Indies, I think when I was PWG champion, I said, I take the title with me 100%. Wherever I go.

And on the Indies, it's a little bit, it's a good, it gives you a little bit leverage as well, so they've got to book you again. You know, I really can't see you losing this championship at any point with the run that you're on right now. Do you think it might be possible for you to hold both the Intercontinental Championship and the WWE?

championship at the same time? I think that is possible, but we will see. That's just hard to get to there. I think once a year I have a chance when the Royal Rumble comes around. I came very close last year. Let's see what happens this year. I think then it's absolutely possible. But it's also not my focus right now.

Is the focus just, are you going to take this to a thousand days? Is that what the focus is? I don't plan on losing it. I think no champion does that. But also I know that there will be a time where I lose it. That's nothing lasts forever. And it's the same case for my title reign. That will not last forever either.

But I just saw me to, yeah, hold on to it as long as possible. Is there a number? Is there a number of days in mind? No. Can I get to 550? Now can I get to 600? now, you know, a thousand maybe. I got to be fully honest.

It's like I have not once taken record, like have a look how many days or I was never paying attention to that. I only find out, yeah, mostly through Twitter because it was linked in something, but it was like, reach that new thing. Then it's nice to see, but I never have that number in my head myself because I don't like to compare myself with others. It's like the others do their thing. I just focus on myself and compete with myself

and I don't think it's healthy to yeah you can endlessly compare yourself to others there will always be somebody that is better than you Harrison is the thief of joy I love that quote it is yeah 100% you can whatever you achieve in life if you're focused with somebody else does better you will always find somebody doing something better

it doesn't matter who you are It's whatever. I tell you, there's a better businessman, a better entrepreneur out there than Elon Musk in some aspect. He won't care about it, I guess. But if he would, he could get frustrated about it, that some other dude, somewhere else is better in a certain aspect. So cut it out. It doesn't lead anywhere. One of the best things about talking to you is you're just so kind.

I don't know if people realize this. Like, you're just so kind in real life. And I appreciate that. It's always great to talk to you. Thank you. Yeah, I try to not change who I am, even though with all this stuff that happens. Because life changes dramatically when you're, yeah, when you make good money and stuff like that and you get recognized and you get a, you can do this for free and no jump in front

of the line. It's you. And sometimes that's comfortable. And sometimes I don't, yeah, it's not necessary because. at the end of the day. Work is work, and the person who I am is who I am. That's two different things. So I end every conversation talking about gratitude

because it's such an important part of my life. I wake up every day. I say out loud three things I'm grateful for and I do it before I go to bed too. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for as we sit here right now? My wife, my friends, my family. The three most important things.

And I got the most amazing wife I could ask for. I got friends just very few, but I know they would go to, yeah, they would go to hell with me if it's necessary. And my family, I cannot ask for a better upbringing and better support throughout my life and my career to this day. And I think those are the three most important tools. Those are three good ones. So great to catch up with you.

Man, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Okay, I feel like we just saw a totally different side of Gunther in this interview. I don't know about you, but I definitely feel like I appreciate him so much more after this conversation. And now when I see him on TV, I'm like, oh, yeah, kind of feel like that's my dude right there. And just between us, I know he doesn't have a number for how long he wants to hold the Intercontinental Championship for, but just between you and me, what are we thinking here? Like 600 days, 750, I don't know how many days would take us to wrestle. mania, but I guess it'd be close to, yeah, in the 600s, I would think, right?

Maybe 700? Does he go for a thousand days? I don't know. Who does he lose it to? Send me a message. Let me know what you think. Send me a tweet. And let's chat about this.

And if you enjoy this episode, share it with a friend and snap a screenshot. Tag us both so we can share it out as well. Man, how cool would it be to get retweeted by Gunther? He's at Gunther underscore AUT. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. and I just saw the movie Maestro, just the other day. Actually, I saw it yesterday

as I'm recording this right now. It's the new Netflix movie starring Bradley Cooper. Bradley Cooper also directed it. I feel like we're going to be talking about Bradley Cooper winning an Oscar for his performance in this. He's so good, like unrecognizable.

When he plays Leonard Bernstein, who, look, he's a maestro. I'm not going to get on the whole story here, but he's so good in this movie. And there's a quote that starts the film And I'm going to share that with you here because I think it's just so appropriate to life in general, but also wrestling as like an art form. The quote is, a work of art does not answer questions. It provokes them.

And its essential meaning is in the tension between the contradictory answers. And think about that, right? How contradictory can wrestling be? How subjective is wrestling? Like you ask someone who's the greatest of all time, you can get, you know, a plethora of different answers. And I love that. A work of art does not answer questions. It provokes them.

And also keep an eye out for Maestro when it starts streaming on Netflix, I think right around Christmas. I think it's December 22nd. So, so good. Hope you enjoyed this. Be great. Be grateful. And we will see you on the next one for some more insight with Zach Gowan.

Yes, Zach Gowen's back on the show. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video.

They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.