Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Headbanger Mosh: CRAZY Attitude Era Stories, Beaver Cleavage, Tag Team Champions, Jim Cornette

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Chaz Warrington (@ChazMosh) is a professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE as Mosh, one-half of the tag team The Headbangers. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss how he was paired up with Glenn Ruth (Thrasher) to form the tag team, how Jim Cornette created their name and look, his Beaver Cleavage gimmick, returning to WWE in 2016 for a match on SmackDown, getting set for his final match with The Headbangers in 2026, and more! Buy Mosh's book "Beneath The Skirt" here: https://chazmosh.com Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 20% off sitewide! DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT CAR GURUS: Buy or sell your next car today with Car Gurus: https://cargurus.com HIMS: For simple, online access to personalized and affordable care for Hair Loss, ED, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://hims.com/INSIGHT PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv AMERICAN FINANCING: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.196% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-721-3300 for details about credit costs and terms or visit https://Americanfinancing.net/Chris SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It is great to see you as always. It's great to see you. I love this. This is awesome. You have aged exceptionally well. It's a little bit gray. Maybe a little. Like the last interview that I did with you and Thrashor, I titled it, The Headbangers

Have Not Aged. And it's true, like when you looked at you guys, especially in that interview, it was like just a snapshot right out of the attitude era. Right. It's crazy. That was funny. It was with all the ducks bothering us behind the scenes. That was so weird.

We were doing this interview outside of an indie show. There were ducks walking and quacking behind us. Yeah, they were annoying. They were bothering us. They were. They were. Damn, ducks. I'm glad we're doing it here.

Yes. I've closed the door. I don't think any ducks will be coming in here. Okay, good. But congratulations on the new book. Thank you. Thank you. I'm very happy with it.

I'm very proud of it. There was a lot of work that went into it. I'm very happy with it. Yeah. What went into telling your story now? It actually started probably seven or eight years ago. And I said it all started with me just wanting to jot things down for my son. My son never saw me wrestle at the point that we wrestle at with WW.

How old is your son? He's 21 now. Right. So he wasn't even born. He was born in 2004. Like I left WWE in 2002. So he didn't know anything about anything. So I just wanted to just jot things down for him just to give him a perspective of what I went through.

If anyone, you know, if you hears about like stuff I did or something, kind of like, I don't know, like a journal or memoir for him. And the more I started writing, like the more just things started coming back. But it was a lot of off and on. It was more off than on because you get sidetracked, life gets in the way. And then I went back to a high school reunion in October of 24. And someone there, she, her name's Tori. She's the writing coach. She's an editor slash ghostwriter.

And she was like, oh, I'd love the work on that project. like, can you send it over to me? Like, I'd like to read it and just see it. I was like, yeah, sure, so I sent it over to her. And she called me up. She's like, this is amazing. She goes, you got something here. She goes, you need to finish it.

And at that point, I was probably, I don't know, 75, 80% done. So what happened was is she started from the beginning going through like editing, like making notes for me on the side of the paper of word and everything for me to go back and look and maybe add something here. Like, it's just really needed and kind of help me with it. But that motivated me to get. get it done. And I got it done and here it is now. So yeah. It's a crazy concept to think that your son wasn't there for like your best wrestling memories. It's almost like you live these two lives.

Yes. And the craziest part about that is, so when I lived in New Jersey, before I moved to South Florida where I'm at now, my basement in New Jersey was my man cave. I had like pool table, air hockey table. He had the dartboard. You had the bar. You had the big screen TV. But on the walls, it was all of my pictures, the magazines, the belts, like anything I had to do with anything with us, I had framed it was up on the walls. That was my mini-chaz shrine, I guess. But when I moved to Florida, there's no basements. Yeah. So I had nowhere to hang it for all those years. So I just moved, probably about two and a half years ago, I moved into a townhouse, three-story townhouse in the first floor. I was like, this is perfect. I have like shelves up

with my figures on and with the action figures. Then I was able to take all of those, because all the years, every time I moved, I kept all of this stuff in the big frames. I never got rid of them. So I started going, once I had that room, I was like, oh, this would be perfect. So that's what I did. I started going through it. But I had so much extra stuff. I actually went and bought one of those big art books, like this big from Michaels.

I bought a giant one. And I was like, this is perfect because now I have like a coffee table book of me. Yeah. So my son came home from college one time and he was downstairs. And I'm like, are you coming up? He's like, yeah, I'll be up in a minute. I'm busy. So I walked on.

I was like, what are you doing? He was sitting on the couch flipping through. He was reading, he read the stuff that I had hung on the walls, which was like WrestleMania 13, Ground Zero, and the bell. It's like all the big important stuff are the cool things I thought we did where I had enough room. I reframed it and hung it. But he was going through the book of newspaper clips. And when I threw out the first pitch at the Phillies game, like he's going through all that.

And he stopped. He looked at me, he goes, dad, I knew you were kind of like a big deal. he goes, I've never seen this stuff before. He goes, this is cool. He goes, I never realized, like, how big you were, I guess. Like, he didn't even know how to put it in the words. He was like, you're a bigger deal than you played off on or than I ever thought. He goes, this is some cool stuff you really got to do.

He goes, you know, like you did this basketball. Now he starts going through it, like showing me stuff that really stood out to him. And I dawned to me at that point, like, he really has no idea to the extent of what I did. So the cool part about the book now is is when, he does get around to reading. I know he's not going to read it anytime soon. But when he does get around to reading it, he'll be like, oh shit. Like, I didn't know what that happened.

Like my dad did that. Like, isn't that the ultimate compliment when your kids think you're cool? Yes. Because he won't tell me to my face. Like to my face, he's like, yeah, yeah, it's just dad. But he had, they had a parents thing. And we went up to college. He goes to UCF in Orlando.

And it was parents weekend. And it was funny because the kids were coming up and they're like, oh, you're Tyler's dad. And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, hey, so you're the wrestler he talks about. I'm like, oh, so he talks about me. Like, but to my face, he would never, you know, put that over. But yeah, it was, it's, it's pretty cool when he wants to actually acknowledge that I'm kind of a cool dad.

Does he have any interest in getting into wrestling? Zero. Okay. Are you probably happy about that? Um, yes or no. I think if he, he's so athletic, he's played travel soccer. Um, he was getting recruited by some colleges and then he had an injury, he had fractured his hip while playing at senior year in high school.

So he decided, I just want to go. to college, just go to college and have fun, which is amazing because he's butterfied into this totally different personally. He's the greatest thing. He's in a fraternity, he's president of his fraternity right now. So, I mean, he's doing great things. Part of me wishes he would because he's, he's taller than I am. He's like 6-3, 6.4. He's probably 200 pounds lean, and he's going to grow into it even more. I go up to the PC in Orlando with WWA and I go up there and I help coach. the first time I went up, he came. And it was funny, he's, because he's so tall.

And he's like, his posture's big. Like, he just, he really stands out. A couple of the guys came up because everybody, you know, they're meeting them. They're saying hi to him. And actually, Sean Michaels came over. And he was like, you're a big kid. Tyler's like, thank you.

Now, Tyler has no idea who Sean Michaels is. And he goes, I want to get in the ring? And Tyler looks at him dead in the face. And Matt Bloom was saying, Russell. And he looks at him, he goes, no, he goes, I appreciate what you guys do. He goes, I know my dad loves this, and I know my dad's going to have fun here doing this,

and everyone here is going to learn something from my dad because he's so passionate about it when he does. He goes, I have zero desire to get in there and do any of that. He goes, I want to run my own business. I want to do my own thing. He went on for like two minutes, and Sean just went, all right, great. Well, kids, nice to meet you.

He walked away. I look at town. I'm like, the hell was that? He was like, what? He goes, did I say something? I go, no, I just never, like, where'd you come from? And how are you so, it wasn't even like politically correct. It was just like he was so sure of himself of what he wants to do.

And he has no desire in doing that. And then at the other side, I said, do you know who that was? He's like, I'm like, that's Sean Michael. Yeah, that's one of the greatest of all time asking you if you'd like to get into wrestling right. Yeah. It's like LeBron asking you if you want to shoot some hoops. Yeah. And he was just like, he's like, oh, he's like, okay.

No, he goes, I'm cool. And I was like, all right. He has zero desire again. Showing how Tony wants to play catch with you. Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, I'm okay. No, thanks. No reason to, uh,

No, but his big thing is, is I'm a huge Phillies fan. So John Kruk is one of my favorite players. Yeah. And I got the opportunity to meet him. We went to a Phillies game when I had the new figures came out. And I got the opportunity to go up into the booth to meet with him. And we met Tom McCarthy. And so it was cool.

Like we were sitting there talking. But Tyler, we were out somewhere a while back. And Tyler's big claim to fame is, yeah, I met John Kruk. And his friends were like, who's John Cruck. Like you brag more about meeting John Cruck than having a conversation with Shaw Michaels, but yeah, it's funny.

So you've been at the PC quite a bit. You've been doing a lot of guest coaching there. Yes, right? Yes. How did that all come together? It kind of came together is kind of just, I don't know, I would say it was kind of just a joke I threw out. But Steve Carrino and I,

we've remained friends all these years and out of nowhere, and he's a Philly's fan also. So, you know, Durham baseball season, and we're always texting back and forth about something. What a legend, Steve Carrillo is. He is awesome. He is so, like for someone who never, and I don't mean this in a negative way to make a way way sound because he made it,

but he never made it like WWE status, like ECW status is unreal. What he's done in Japan, like what he's done is most people haven't done. But the knowledge that he has and watching him work with these kids and pass it down is just amazing. So we were. texting one day. And I was like, hey, I said, you know, just throwing it out there. You know,

if you ever need a, you know, a coach up there or is there a chance to come, an opportunity to come up and help out or something. He was like, yeah, no, absolutely. He goes, you have Bloom's, his number. I'm like, I think so. I'm like, it's just it. He's like, yeah, he goes, just text Bloom. He goes, he goes, and then he came back to me. He goes, you text Bloom yet? I'm like, no, not yet. He goes, no, he goes, I just talked to him. He said, yeah, he'd love to have you come up here. He goes, so just text them and you guys figured out. And two weeks later, there I was. Wow.

It was up there. So you've been working with the young talent there? Yes. The first time I went up was September of 24. And then it was like four or five months later. They brought me back up. And then it was like a couple months later. So it seems to be every, I don't know, five, six, seven weeks that, yeah, they call.

And I go up and I help out. I love it. Cool. What do you think the biggest thing, someone breaking into the business now needs to learn? Like, what's one of the biggest things you're teaching? them. One of the biggest things is selling, storytelling. A match has to tell a story. It needs to make sense. And for me, I'm very old school of how it was brought up the realism behind it. You know, you got a selling is huge to get, to get it, especially if your baby face, selling is huge.

And I'm being able just to tell that story. And then the styles change so much because it's Like everyone wants to go 100 miles an hour. It's fine to go 100 miles an hour. But every now and in, you got to pause. You got to stop. Because if you just keep going and going and going, the crowd's just going to sit there going, it's like a ping pong or tennis match.

You're just watching it with no reaction until the play ends. Like eventually that spot's got to end. You got to let it sit, marinate for a second and then let them, you know, let the crowd react and then move on. That's probably for me the biggest thing. I like the storytelling of a match

and then the realism of it. Do you remember the exact moment when you fell in love with pro wrestling? Geez, I mean, I watched it as a kid growing up. Who were your guys growing up? Growing up, so obviously, you know, that young age, everyone's a Hulk Hogan fan. Everyone had the Hulk Hogan poster on the back. I actually had it on the back of my door, so like I only saw it when the door, bedroom door was closed.

Sure. But my all-time favorites were for different reasons, macho man, just his charisma and the way he worked and just what he did. He was one of the first guys, I'm jumping off the top. I'm jumping over the inside to the outside of the way he would hang everyone over the top rope and do that. And just the colors. And then, of course, he had Miss Elizabeth with him. So who doesn't like any, he's not going to love that.

Ultimate Warrior, just, again, his speed, his energy that he came out with was just to me. I just loved it. I loved his music. I could get into it and sit down like this as he came out. Oh, what an entrance. Yes. And then this one's kind of the total opposite of those two is Magnum TA. I was watching. I remember my parents got me like a black and white TV for Christmas one year. And then, yeah, black and white TV.

Then the next year I got a VCR. So once I got to VCR, I immediately went to the West Coast video. And I went to the wrestling aisle. And I bought, I wanted to watch tapes. And I was like, what are these tapes? I was like, what is Starcade? I grew up in the Northeast. It was all WWF.

I'm like, what is Starcate? Like, who was the Rock and Roll Express? Like, I had no idea who any of those guys. So I bought those tapes back. I started watching them. And that was the point I was like, this is amazing. Like watching them. And then what I liked about Magnum TA was Magnum, there was no flared.

There was no flash. It was, let me get in a ring. Let me hit you with a belly to belly suplex. Let me pin you in 10 seconds and get out and move on the business. Like, he was just all business. with what he did. So those would be my top three. And then, like, my first match I ever had,

I had to do a belly-de-belly in it, just because of Magnum T.A. did it? At what point did you start to realize, like, I love wrestling. This is something I might be able to try to do for a living. Well, I used to go with friends of mine, especially my best friend, Mike. Every month if the WWF was in the spectrum in Philly.

So we would jump on the speed line, take the speed line over, jump on the subway, take the subway down, and we made like a whole venture out of it. But we would go and I used to joke around with him and my other friends going one day you'll see me in that ring. But never thinking that was, it was just kind of just a funny thing because I was just a huge fan of it. And I love the promos.

The promos sucked me in. So that was it. And then the riding down, there was a town. It was called Route 30 Martin, Clement, New Jersey, which was like 10, 15 minutes from my house. is an old rundown like flea mart like you would walk in there and you would go oh this place this is where the thrift stores come to buy stuff to sell at the thrift store like used underwear and bras with like pink stitching in and like it was crap stuff you would not really wear but um out front every down then there was a big giant white truck and it was spray painted on a side pro wrestling

saturday night at 8 p.m so one saturday had nothing going on like oh let me go check this out now meanwhile the only wrestling I ever saw was WWE or WWF and then WCW started running more so they would run it to convention center so there's the lights or there's some music, there's this there's a, I had no idea when indie wrestling was. Never been to anything like it

and I walked in and I sat down going what is this? Like, because that's where the monster factory was and I see the monster factory, I see WWA up on the wall but I have no idea what any of that means. And I watched it, the guys came out and I was like, this is

awful. Like, where's the lights? Like, there was music, like, where's the, where's the lights? And the guys, like, outfits weren't anything. Everyone just had, like, a single on. There was no, like, flair. I'm like, where's, like, the macho man? Like, I was expecting a production like that. And, um, didn't get it. But then I saw, like, the Monster Factory logo and WWA logo on the wall. I'm like, I got to figure, I got to find out what this is. And I kind of lingered after the show. And at the time, the heavyweight champ was the spider. And I saw the, the, spider hanging over like by this door. The ring was here. There was a ramp, like a, not a ramp,

like a balcony to sit on. And then there was an office door. So I saw him standing there. And then as everyone was letting out, I saw him take his mask off. And I went, that guy kind of looks familiar. So it turns out it's Glenn, my partner. Um, here are more we started talking, and whenever we started talking, the more we started talking, we realized we knew of each other because our high schools wrestled one another. So we, we never wrestled each other. other, but we kind of knew each other. So I started talking to him, and that's when he explained to me, oh, this is a school. This was just like a show that Larry does every month and blah, blah, blah, and that's when he convinced me to come and try out. And I was like, yeah, let me try out. Like,

what the hell? What else am I doing? Like, I was at that point, I was in my fourth year at community college. Like, that was, that was the thing. Like, you go to college. I called it 12th, 13th, 14th, grade, 13th, 14th grade, because that's what everyone did. If you didn't go away to school, you were at Camden County College. Were you studying? Nothing. College. I was, it was college because my parents would let me stay at the house rent free because I was still in college.

Yeah, so that was in. I went down to the school and I tried out and I signed up for the school. And at that point, I was like, I'm in the ring. I did what I said I would do. And I had no idea it was going to go to where it went. It was just me getting in there and going. Like, it was never one of those things where I was like, oh, there's a kid, like, I can see myself being heavyweight champ or tag team champion. like that. It was always like, oh, this would be a cool thing to try.

Did you have aspirations to be a singles wrestler or a tag wrestler? At that point, I just, the only aspiration I had was not to get hurt and just try to figure out life. Because at that point, I was, so I was 93, so I was like 22, I had no idea what I was doing with my life. And I was just trying to figure it out. So it was just one of those things. But then when Glenn and I started tagging together and I realized, oh, there's something here. That's when it kind of started clicking with me. Like, no, this is something that could really work or could really take off. What was the idea behind forming the tag team in the first place? So Glenn had, Glenn had been around for two or three years already doing

independent. So he was kind of known in that northeast area. And he had gotten, he had herniated disc in his back. And his thing was, he approached me because the moment we met, we clicked. We just clicked. We got along really well. We were hanging out all the time together. You know, when he was at the school, there was a month, he wasn't there. But, you know, he just kind of took me under his wing. It was like helping me like more than others. And his thing was he's tried to do it by himself. Like he had been to Japan. He had been to Puerto Rico. And if anyone's watching out there, I've never been to Japan. I want to go to Japan at least once.

We've now put it out into the world. It's out there. There you go. Someone in Japan, going to book you know. I hope so. I hope so. I mean, Noah's got an agreement with WWE and I am under contract with WWA. So, oh yeah? Well, we got the legends contract. Right. It's still a contract. Yeah. So, yeah, so I think Glenn's thing was is, hey, I've been doing it singles by myself. I really haven't gotten anywhere. Let me try a tag. We get along really well. We looked, our body types at that point were very similar, except that was just a smaller, skinnier version of him. And I mean, to the point where I went out

lost his, he was the heavyweight champ. I went out dressed as him and lost the belt for him, but I never took the jacket off, but no one knew that was me and not him. One time we had the masks on, we were at a show. His mom came over and had like a 10-minute conversation with me thinking I was Glenn the whole time. So we just jelled like that right off the bat. And yeah, so that's why he was like, hey, we should try this. Are you interested in trying it at that point? I was trying to figure out who I was. And when I was in the ring, all I did was laugh and giggle because I was like, I'm in a wrestling ring. So the mask helped hide that, you know, me laughing and smiling the whole time.

And I'm getting a shit beat out of me. I'm supposed to be selling. And I'm looking up at the crowd like laughing and smiling. So you worked tag matches before you ever work singles matches. I worked. I worked WWF back then, like superstars matches getting a shit beat out of me on my own. Then I had three singles matches when I first started. There was a guy down at the school, Craig.

He started the same time. did. So we trained all summer together. So we had our first like real matches against one another. So we did one in September. We did a Broadway, what do you call it? Time limit draw. And then the next month we had another time limit draw. And then the third month was kind of the blow off where we sat down at the desk with Larry Sharp, who ran the Monster Factory then. And he goes, so here's the deal. He goes, we're having a loser leaves town match. He goes, whoever sells the most ticket stays and Whoever doesn't leaves town. And Craig goes, that's not fair.

Chaz lives here. And he sells 40 to 50 tickets, you know, every show. And Larry goes, saw more tickets to him. I don't know what to tell you. And that was the blowoff match for us. And then the next month, Glenn and I started as a tag team. Wow. So I had three like legit singles matches on my own before we started tagging.

Weren't you training with some like pretty big names of the Monster Factory? Yeah, Dilo was down there. Who Bradley was down there. and then when we had left, like Big Show had come down, but this was months later, Big Show was there. Delo actually was a huge part. So Delo kind of trained himself, did the backyard thing, and him and his friends would come down and rent the ring,

and they put on a whole production. They were great. They had lights. They had ring music. They had their own matches. They videote it all. It was great. And Glenn and I would stay in work because they would rent the ring on a Saturday afternoon.

So after we got done training, so Glenn and I would sit there and watch. So when Larry convinced Delo to join the school, Delo is actually the one who helped us perfect the stage dive of our finisher. So he was a huge part of that. What a finisher, right? It's one of the greatest tag team finishers in the history of wrestling. Hold, please. There's not one of it, is the greatest tag team finisher of all time,

the most underrated finisher. And we say that, and Glenn's way more passionate about that I am. He gets hot when it comes up. but what's so great about it is the timing. Nothing else. Yeah, you need timing for the 3-D. LOD's finisher,

there's really no timing. You just stand up and jump off. Matt and Jeff's finisher is really no. The Heart Foundation, there's really no timing because you're just holding one up. Even demolition, as much as I love them, it's just across the knee with the elbow coming off.

The timing with hours and the, it's not even so much, the timing's important, but what else is important is, what you have to do. If I'm giving you the power bomb and leg drop, there's a way you have to land so you don't get hurt. And Glenn doesn't get hurt. Like you have to turn your head. You have to put your arm down. There's a lot more to it. And it's never been duplicated. And that's not normally how someone would take a power bomb. No, it's not. Right. So the power bombs,

you want to sit all the way up this way and then you come all the way down. But with hours for the timing purpose of Glenn coming off the top rope is I have to bring you up just to a certain height and and bring you right back down. And it's actually, it looks devastating, but it's actually really easy to take because the bump's not huge because you're only coming off the mat, maybe, I don't know, up to my waist because I just pull you up and you sit this way, you lean up, and then you just come straight. And I pull you back down and drop to my knees. But there's all of that tied into it where it's, you know, it can't be, it can't be duplicate. You can, people are doing 3D. People do, you know, doomsday device and you can't duplicate it. How did you come

up with the stage dive? Glenn had a dream. He kept a, uh, a pad and pen next to his bed and on his nightstand and had this, he woke up and he had this power bomb and leg drop in his head. Didn't know what it meant. He wrote it down. He came into the school. He goes, I woke up, he goes in it, because at that point, we were trying to figure out, okay, we need, you know, we're working on double team moves and we hadn't started. We actually didn't have a tag match yet, so we were trying to figure things out. And it was, okay, so do we do a power bomb, but how do we do a leg drop out of it? So it started with like Glenn trying to do a power bomb and me running and landing in the ring with a leg drop. I'm like, the timing's off if the person's hands are out this way, you know, if he's tilted a

little bit way or if Glenn lifts him too high and I can't jump as high, like he's going to land on my leg. So we're like, no, that's not it. And then it turned into, well, maybe if I'm on the second rope, there it is and jump off. And the great part was DeLo was our crash test dummy. He took a thousand bumps trying to help us figure this out. And some of those are probably scary bumps. The bump was probably easy. It was me landing on his face or me kicking him in the side of the head.

Trying to work out the kicks. Yes, to get the timing down. And then so because Glenn was bigger than me, it was made sense in our minds for Glenn to do the power bomb. I come off with a leg drop. the problem was me coming off the top was not good um that sounds kind of funny but my balance isn't the best and for me to get up on the top and then i was so green and new trying to jump off and hit the leg drop just wasn't i literally i'm surprised delo actually doesn't have really bad cTE right now from all my foot hitting him the side of head sitting on his face so many times

so then we just switched it we're like all right so let's figure it out and delo would sit all the way up like, no, that doesn't work the timing wise. So it was him who helped us, like, okay, you got to only come up this far. Then we realized the arm, that arm's got to go down. Your head's got to go this way. And then Glenn could nail the leg drop off the top. So it was just a matter of boom, boom. And when he was set, he would point, I would go.

And then as soon as I know where you're there, I just pull you right back down. So it took us a good, I'd say month to really, really get it down and perfect it the way it was just like instant. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Klinemberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking.

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So where'd the idea come from to make you guys the headbangers? That came from Jim Cornett. So we left. We packed up the car. And I started in June of 93. We packed up the car in April of 94 and went to Memphis for USWA as the spiders. So we worked to spiders there. And then we were in Ozark Mountain wrestling with Burr Prentice in Arkansas for a little over a year,

maybe a year and a half. And what happened was at the end of that, Bert started bringing in Ricky and Robert to Rock and Roll Express, Tracy Smothers. He was bringing them in for our big show we had every Monday night. And then it was just Ricky and Tracy coming and we were working them. And the good part is, is Larry would bring, you know, guys in. So he brought like Jerry Lawler in back in the day and then Cornett was there. So Glenn had like kind of knew them.

They knew of Glenn. And from being around. and with Tracy and Ricky coming, they basically, we were, we were giving them tapes. Like, hey, can you give this to Cornette? Can you give this to Cornett? Because, you know, USWA had the gateway into WWE back then, and so did Smoky Mountain. And the USWA thing just wasn't, you know, we went there as a spiders. We were there a few months. And then we were gone.

We couldn't get back in. And so we're like, okay, so Smoky Mountains is another way for us to try to get in. So Cornett called us one day. And he goes, hey, he goes, I got this idea. He goes, I'd like to bring you in. he said the gangsters are getting ready to finish up. I'd like to bring you guys in. We're like,

yeah, because with Bert Prentice at that time, we were making four or five dollars a night. Four or five dollars? A night, yes. I did a cage match there one night. Counting out singles?

One, two, three, four? No, no, no singles. Well, sometimes it was singles.

One time I did a cage match. It was the biggest house we had, maybe 200 people. Okay. Cage match against Colorado kid. I'm coming off top of the cage. I got color. You got the whole thing.

Yeah. I'm all excited. I'm like, there's 200 people out here. I'm going to get at least $40. Like, that was Memphis pay. It was $40.

If I got Memphis pay, I was happy. I'm like, this is the best. Got an envelope. It was heavy. And it was jingling. And I opened it up and there was a post-it.

It said, payoff $5 minus a dollar for hot dog that ate and dollar for soda that I drank. There was $3 in nickels and dimes in my envelope. $3. $3 and nickels and dollars. knives. Yes. It was awful, but if we didn't go through that, we never get to where we were. So the territories were huge for us. Yeah. So when Cornett called us, he goes, hey, I had this idea.

I want to bring you guys in. He goes, but I don't like the masks. I don't like masked wrestlers, which is funny because when he brought us in a ring of honor, what did he do? He put us under a mask first. That's funny. Yeah. But yeah, so he told us that he was at a, and you're going to laugh at this, snow and Jim Cornett. He was at a Glenn Dangson concert in New York. And he goes, it was the craziest thing I've ever seen. He goes, these guys had earrings and their noses were pierced and they had makeup on her face. They're wearing dresses and they had tattoos. He goes, with your guy's attitude from like northeast, he goes, I think you could pull this idea I have off. He goes, I don't really know what the idea is other than you'd be like headbangers. He goes, you would come out, listen to loud,

obnoxious music. He goes, you know, I want you to spit on people. I mean, the first TV we did, I walked down the ring side and I spit on every single person in the front row, right in her face. He didn't care. He was like, if you find roadkill on a road, thrown the back of the car, he goes, put it on a leash and drag it to the ring. We're like, gee man, it's a little, I don't want to go that far, but we, we get, road killed in a ring. I would have been freight. But I knew what he was, like the music he was talking about. I knew what he was talking about. I knew I had been to the heavy metal concerts at the bank and I've been to them in the spectrum in Philly with my buddies. So I knew exactly what we was talking about.

I'd been in the mosh pits. I've slammed. I've staged. I knew exactly. You were already part of that scene. Yes. I had done it. So I was like we were, first of all, we were just like, whatever you want us to do,

it's the opportunity that we were like, it's going to get us seen. It's cornet. We knew who was there and we knew it was another gateway into WWE. So we're like, yeah, sure. So we show up at TV. And it's actually funny because we show up and the gangsters were there. And we walk in and New Jack walks over to corner and goes, fuck these guys doing here.

And court, I'm like, what do you mean? What are they doing here? Like, they're coming in because you're finishing up. They're taking your spot. And they're like,

well, fuck you. We quit now then. We just leave. And the idea was to bring us in, give us two matches and then do two interviews. So be four weeks of TV. We're on TV.

and then we'd start doing the spot towns. And Cornyat was like, all right, so leave. He turns around and he goes, are you guys doing anything this weekend? Now you're booked. So we instantly got booked on everything. And he said, he goes, I can't guarantee you the world. He goes, but I'll guarantee you 75 hours a night. We're like, 75 hours a night for three nights a week.

He's like, yeah, I'm like, that's 225 hours a week. We're like, goldmine when you're making $3 in nickels and dimes. Right. I'm like, and that's going to be in like cash. bills. So we did that first TV and never forget, he gave us each $100 bill. And we went back to the hotel and threw it on the bed and we were like jumping and rolling around. We're like, we got $100. We got $100. It was so awesome. Yeah, so that's how the headbanger thing started. And he gave us, we walked in. Again, we had no idea we were going to do. So we had wore shorts.

I think Glenn had sneakers on. I had these like work boots that I had that I wore. And we walked in, Cornett handed Glenn Metallica t-shirt. He handed me a Slayer t-shirt. And he goes, go. And we were like, what are we like, what's our names? He goes, I don't know, Mosh and Thrasher, Thrasher, I don't know, something like that. He goes, you're the headbangers.

He goes, I don't know. He goes, we're going to figure it out as we go. So we literally went to the ring and they announced us as Mosh and Thrasher, the headbangers. We went, all right, I guess that's who we are. And we had that match. And then I never forget it. We went over because after the match, we were doing an interview.

So we go over to the interview and there's an old guy there with these big, giant, thick glass, Coke bottle glasses on. And I start messing with him. So Glenn's like, oh, you know, I'm thrasher. He's Mosh. I think we're the headbangers. Like, we, the promo is like, we don't even know who we are sort of thing. And the promos before we always did.

Like, we didn't do like a promo class. So, like, we just did promos as the spiders with a mask on. Glenn usually talked most of the time and I would blur. something else out. But as the headbangers, it was like, we don't know what we're doing. We don't know who we are. So if we say something, it doesn't make sense. It actually doesn't make sense because it doesn't make sense because that was our whole thing. I would stand in the ring and go, did you hear that? Do you hear that? Like, it was so silly. So we're doing this interview. I take the guy's glasses off. I start poking him in his ears. I'm like sticking it in his eye.

I'm like messing with him all over the place. And I put him on. I'm like, how do you see through these things. Turns out it's Les Thatcher. I had no idea who Les Thatcher was. Yeah. So we get in the back, Les Thatcher's a legend. We get in the back and the boys were like Tracy's mother's one of he goes, dude, what were you doing? I go, what do you mean?

He goes, just fucked with Les Latcher. Less Thatcher. I go, who's Les Thatcher? Because, you know, there's all those territories back now, but there was no, there's no internet. Like, you don't know who anybody is. Yeah. I had no idea. And I only knew who, like, Cornett was and, like, Ricky and Robert because of the magazines I used to get.

Like, no idea who anybody else is. I didn't know who Al Snow was or Unabom was. Like back then when we went there, I didn't know who dirty white boy Tony Anthony was. So I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, they're like,

dude, it's not good. And I'm like, oh, shit. Like, like, first day here. Like,

I'm going to have heat now with this old guy. He's going to come back here for my understanding and I'll beat me up. So he comes into the, Les, that sure comes into the back. I'm like, Les, I'm so sorry.

Like, if I offended you, like, I didn't know. He looks at him. He goes, what's wrong? I go, all the boys back here are like, tell me I fucked up by messing with you. He's like, no.

He goes, that's fine. He goes, that's your character. Right? And I go, I don't know the character. We just got here. And he's like, no, he goes, I thought it was great. It was good. It was funny.

Like, you got yourself over. And I'm like, I got ourselves. We got ourselves over. Like now Glenn and are like, we even got ourselves over. Like, we had to like goofballs. But no, it worked out perfect. So that's literally how it started. and then after a couple of weeks,

I said, Glenn, I go, we got to figure out outfits. And Glenn's like, what do you mean? Like, this is fine.

We're wearing shorts. I go, we look like PG-13, except we're bigger. Because PG-13, shorts, T-shirts, and sneakers.

Yeah. I'm like, we look like, and PG-13 was established in the Tennessee area. I'm like, we look like PG-13, except big,

bigger than them. And so we got to figure something out. Because Cornett told us, he goes, I don't expect you to get, get piercings and tattoos or wear dresses or skirts or anything like that. Well, one of the first things Glenn and I did was when got her ears pierced. So we show up like two weeks later.

We have all these earrings. And now Glenn had his tongue pierced. I said, we got to change the outfits. So we went to a thrift store. We're walking through a thrift store. And Glenn starts over this way. And I'm walking. And I stop and I look over to the right was the women's clothing.

And I just turned. And I went through the skirts. I just started looking and looking. And I found kind of what I thought was like, a cool looking skirt and I put it on and I walk down the aisle and Glenn comes out. He looks at me. He goes, absolutely not. He's like, no. I'm like, just try it. I'm like, it's different. No one else. No one else is doing it. I mean, you know, paper wore a kilt, but he took the kilt off. And I'm like, but these are skirts. It's not a kilt. And to this day, someone will argue with me. You're like,

oh, you wore the kilt. And I go, no, it's a skirt. Real men wear skirts. Like, I think I know what I wear. It's a skirt. So I convince Glenn, okay, so we, bought two skirts. We show up in the locker room. We show up at it. It was a spot town. And we put them on. And instantly, like the ribs start coming. Like Tony Anthony's busting her balls and, you know, Tracy's bustling her. Ricky and Robert are like, oh, we got to get in the ring with two girls tonight. Like, what is this? And Glenn's like, see, I told you. They're going to make fun of us. Let's just go out and see what happens. So we go out. We got so much heat. They were throwing trash at us. They were throwing stuff in the ring. We're in the Bible belt.

and you know here's two guys with heavy metal music demonic music cornet head playing for us we have the face paint on we're coming out in skirts we're spitting on people and yelling at them we got so much heat we walked in the back cornet comes over he goes where did you get those i said frist store he pulls out $20 and he hands us each $20 he goes go buy more you now wear skirts and that's how the skirts we're born and it just clicked it just clicked it just made sense at that time to be different and it set us apart from everyone. What was the idea behind the makeup you wore and the way that you guys had it on your face?

So when we showed up to the first TV, Cornett had like the black acrylic paint you can buy in a tube at Walmart or any store. And we were taking it and we were like trying to put it on like eye black like this, like trying to be nice and neat about it and then we kept washing it off. Then we would try it again. After like the fourth or fifth time Cornett comes over and goes, no, he dips his finger like this and he goes,

goes swipe, swipe, he goes, that's it, go. So there was no rhyme or reason. So some nights we would do it that way, some nights would do it this way, we'd let it run down. Then I learned that if I put water on my face first and I just did like a thick line here, it would kind of just run. Sometimes we just did it thicker, whatever it felt like that night. That's what it was. But the way that you have it and the way that Glenn has it, it evolved to be something very different. Totally different. My eyes can be sensitive and if I got it too close, it felt like it run in my eyes, my eyes would burn. So I tried to keep it more down here and let it run down. And then Glenn just evolved into I'm going to do it all the way around and just bring it down and that's what he liked. So I was like, okay. How did you eventually

get on WWE's radar? Um, so we had done, I had started in June of 93, three weeks later, I was on WWF TV. That's insane. Getting beat up by Adam Baum. And then the next night was Papa Shango. So I actually had the funniest part is I had four TV matches before I had my first real match down at the school. And Glenn had been going up to do jobs for years since he started because whenever they were in the Northeast area around Jersey, Baltimore, they would call Larry and they would use Larry's guys. So even all the years of leaving, of going to like Memphis, if we were home and they were around, we'd still go up and do TV. I think we did one or two job matches as the headbangers.

Like we had been on TV as Chas and Glenn and singles and tag. We had been on TV as the spiders together. We did, I think, one or two headbangers. And what happened was Smokey Mountain shut down. And when it shut down, Cornett was working full time with WWA. And when he shut down, he told everyone in the locker room, he goes, you know, I'm up here. We knew he was up there. But he said, he goes, I'm going to do everything I can to get everyone a job.

And so we're, you know, of course, you're like, okay. Like, I believed everything Cornett said because everything he told us would happen, we weren't smoking mountain, happened. Like, there was one time he had nothing for us for like three or four weeks. So he got us a spot in a movie called Box of Moonlight. And we wrestled in the movie, but it paid us enough that was more than if we were, you know, if we did the shows for him. So like everything he always told us happened.

Because when he said, everyone, you guys are going to be off for like a month, but here I got you this movie spot. In a month, I'll be able to bring it back. we were kind of like, oh, we're not coming back. He's not bringing us back. He brought us right back within a month. So everything he says, like, I believe. So we're like, oh, okay, like, cool. And then we were driving back from, we did an indie show in Detroit.

And we were driving back. We're in West Virginia. And Glenn and I had a, we had a beeper that was an 800 number. So people could call us toll free. And we could listen to the messages. We just had no way to call anybody back. So we got a message on the beeper from him. and at this point we happened to have a calling card.

So we called him back and we pulled over because we knew how busy Cornette was. And we were like, my God, we need to call him right away because if not, we may not get hold of him for a week. So we pulled over, got off the highway, and it was raining a little bit. So we were standing in a puddle at a phone booth sharing the phone like this to call Cornette back. And he told us basically what happened was he was spitballing with Vince. And he said to Vince, he goes, hey, he goes, I got to these two guys. He said that,

you know, we're in Smoky Mountain with me. He goes, he got a great gimmick. They're great workers. He goes, because we're in, they were in the northeast.

He goes, they live in this area. He goes, I like to bring them in, give him a dark match. It was a tryout match. Vince was in a good mood. Vince said,

well, tell me about him. He goes, well, you've seen him before. He goes, they've come up here and done jobs for years. Chaz and Glenn, they've been here as the spiders.

And, he goes, oh, I know exactly who you're talking about. He goes, they don't need a tryout match, just put them under a part-time contract. Because at that point, they had a part-time contract they were doing. And, yeah, so he called us and told us on the phone. So Glenn and I found out we were getting our first contract with WWE in a puddle in West Virginia,

and we danced in the water, in the mud, in the puddle. It's like a scene out of a movie. Yes. Take me back to some of those early matches. So, like, you're super green, incredibly inexperienced, and you're in the ring with people like Adam Bomb, people like Papa Shango. Are there any great stories from that time? The cool part with Adam Baum was, again, I had,

Motryman was there. So this was my first night, like first time being. I think we were in Wilkesbury, Pennsylvania. And it was a giant room. And it wasn't like a locker room. It was like just a giant room, like a cafeteria where everybody was changing. And I remember sitting there and I'm looking over. I'm like, there's Brett Hart.

Like, there's Owen. There's this one. And all of a sudden, there goes, Scott Steiner running naked, like across the locker. I was just like, it was like so surreal. I'm like, is this really, really happening? And then Glenn happened to know that macho man was my favorite. So we're standing in a hallway and you could hear him talking coming down the hall.

And I'm like, oh, shit. Like, I'm about to be like face to face with the macho man. And Glenn sitting there, he's like, relax. Like he just could, my expressions are written on my face no matter what I'm doing. So he could sense it. and his macho man got as far as way as we are, he pushed me into macho man. And if it wasn't for the wall behind him,

I literally would have landed right on top of him. And I jumped up. I'm like, oh shit. I'm like, I just messed up really. And I backed up from the macho man. I'm like, oh my God,

I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And me, and I turned around like to yell at Glenn. Like, what the fuck? He was gone.

Like he turned the corner after he pushed me. But I guess macho man saw it. And he was like, No, it's fine. It's fine. He's like, no big deal. No big deal. I was like, okay. So later at night now. So what I said, let me backtrack. So when Glenn said to me, hey, WWF's coming into town, like you're going to come up there. I'm like three weeks. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like what do you mean? I'm not ready for you. He's like, they're not going to use you because it's your first time. They'll see you. You'll get paid. But, you know, they'll see you. Maybe next time I

use you. I was like, perfect, great. And I had that happen. And then I'm sitting, we're sitting in a locker room. and Tony Greer comes out. They had a big whiteboard on wheels. He would wheel out and all the matches written on a whiteboard. And there it was playing his day. Adam Baum versus Chas Ware. And I'm like,

I thought you said I wouldn't work. He goes, guess I was wrong. I guess you're working. So I was like, shit. So, you know, Adam Baum had Johnny Polo with him at the time.

The good part was is Scotty and Glenn knew each other because Scotty, Raven, went to the Monster Factory. So they, Glenn, you know, they knew, so he knew how green I was, how knew I was. So he kind of walked me through everything and really helped me with the match with, with, with Brian. And so now I'm getting ready to go out. And back then it wasn't like an elaborate gorilla position. It was literally like a monitor, like behind a curtain.

And that was it. And I was like pacing, waiting to go out. And then here comes matriman again. And he stops. And he's like, first time here, huh? And I'm like, yes, sir. And he's like, and I said, again, I said, like, I re-apologized for what happened earlier. And he's like, no, no, he goes, you're fine.

You're fine. He goes, it's all good. He goes, he goes, you're going to do great out there. And I'm like, okay, thanks. He goes, you know what? He goes, I have nothing going on right now. He goes, I'm going to stand right here and I'm going to watch. And I'm like, no, please do not watch this.

And he's like, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. Okay, so now I'm walking to the ring and I get in booed. I'm getting booed. I'm getting told I suck. You're going to get the shit beat out of you. And I'm like, I know I suck. I don't know what I'm doing.

Like, I'm agreeing with them. Like, and then I get in the ring and then answer my name and I just put my hands up like this. And a big giant hairy armpits. And I'm like, you just like a door. They had no idea. Like you get this moment to shine on TV. Yeah. And I just stood there like this.

Like I didn't know what to do expression. Like I had no idea what to do. I get in there with Adam Baum and he's bumping me, around bummer. He shit cans me to the floor. He gives me a clothes line. I land crooked on the hard floor and knocks the wind out of me. And I'm like, well, you got to suck it up. He puts me, go through the finish.

And when I walked through the curtain into the back, macho man was still right there. He put his arm around me. He goes, kid, that was great for your first time. He's like, one day he'll make some money in this business. And he slapped me ahead and walked off. Only interaction I've ever had with him was that right there, that first night. Wow.

Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. So the only interaction I've ever had with him. Didn't you punch Papa Shango in the face? Uh, yeah. So, so this is great too because now it's my second night. So, you know, a bunch of us from the school. We all went out that night. You know, we had a few drinks and then we drove down to, I'll never forget it. It's the Wicamiko Center in Maryland and Baltimore. I think it's Baltimore. I don't know. It's in Maryland. The funny part of the Wicamika Mika Center is that I had my last amateur wrestling. I was still wrestling on amateur, like AAU tournaments and things like that. And it was my last amateur tournament that I had in that same building. So it's kind of like the last one.

And now it's like my second match. Yeah, like full circle. Yeah. So I'm sitting there, I'm feeling confident. I'm like, oh, I had a match last night. Like, this is going to be good. Like, I know. Watch my match.

Yeah, he told me I'm going to make money one day. Yeah. I'm like, this is great. They rolled the board out. And it says, Papa Shango versus Chasware. I'm like, oh, another giant. I'm like, okay. And then Glenn said to me, he goes, oh, shit.

I go, what's wrong? He goes, Larry and Papa have here. heat. He goes, I don't know what it is. There's heat there because Papa Shanga went through the Monster Factory. Now I'm thinking, I knew Papa Shango went through the Monster Factory, but I see that and I'm like, I'm golden. Like, we went to the same school. Now I have, you know, we can, we can talk about it. Yeah. And God was like, you can't mention the Monster Factory. He goes, him and Larry have heat. He goes, it's real heat. I go, what's the heat? He goes, I don't know, but just don't mention you went to the Monster Factory. So now I have to go over and introduce

myself to him and say, hey, you know, I'll be sitting over here when you're ready to tell me whatever you want to do to me. And now I'm thinking, like, what if he asked me what school I went to? What do I say? Like, all this is going through my mind. So my confidence of being here quickly got squashed. So Papa comes over.

He's like, come on, let's talk about it. And we went through a couple of things. And then he says to me, he goes, how do you throw a punch? And I go, I punch you like right there. And I'm pointing to his neck. And I'm like, right, I punch you there. Because I don't want to hit you up here or anything. Like, trying to talk him through, like, what I've been told

or what I've seen. Again, I haven't thrown a punch at the school. I've done nothing offensive at the school. I've just taken bumps and hit the ropes. So I'm like, I punch you right there. And he's like, okay, yeah, he goes, but how do you throw a punch? And I'm like, I hit you like down here.

And he goes, how do you throw a punch? And I'm like, I don't know what you mean. Now, looking back, like me today, if I get into the locker room with someone and someone's having that conversation back, I most likely would be like, I kid, I'll see, I'm like, don't worry about it. And in my mind, I'm thinking, like, I'm not going to let you do anything.

Like, I'm just going to bump you and that's it. He had such patience. He looks at him. He goes, throw a punch. Right now? Yeah. You want me to punch you right now? He's like, yes.

I'm like, okay. I punched him so hard. His head spins this way. He turns around. He's like, ah, kid. Tonight, tonight, you're going to throw kick. And I was like, okay.

And I'm like, do you want to see how I kick? He goes, no. Again, I had never thrown a kick and no offensive moves whatsoever. And then it's great in the match because we go through the stuff and he shoots me to the corner and he comes charge in and I move. And I'm like, one kick, two kick, three kicks. And he comes out of the corner and wham and just squashes me. But those were my first offensive moves.

And the best part about that story is, all the years we're in a locker room together. I never told him. I don't know why. Insecurities I always had, I never, insecurities I had, I never really felt like I fit. I guess maybe that was kind of why.

But years later, we were California for at Russell Con, one of the WrestleMania's was out there, and he had to pop a Shango gimmick on at RussellCon. And I walked over to him, I go, can I tell you a story? I'm like, Papa, can I tell you a story? he's like, yeah.

So I tell him the story and he looked right at me. He goes, you're the kid that almost knocked my teeth out in the locker room? And I'm like, you remember that? He goes, yes. He goes, I still talk about that. He goes, I tell people. I'm like, really? So it was cool.

I pulled out my phone. We went on YouTube and then we watched the match together. Wow. At the convention. So it was like a full circle moment of being able to share that with him. What was really cool. Wow. And then the other, so go back to Adam.

on a bomb real quick. I did Luke Gallows and Carl had a when they were leaving WWE this last time and they were getting ready to do their Japan thing. They did a whole thing on Zoom and Brian Clark was on her, he, he's Adam Bomb. And I'm like, hey, Brian, like, you know, we actually never, I said we've actually worked together a couple times. He's like real. I'm like, yeah, I'd like did a couple jobs for you. He was out of bomb, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, you were actually my first match ever. He's like, get out of here. And I go, no, first ever. So over their Zoom, I pulled up the match and I held it up to the camera. So,

like the whole, I think they had like 100 people in this Zoom thing that Luke and Carl had in there. And then we watched the match together like via Zoom over the camera. Oh, that's cool. It was really cool. He was like, I had no idea that was like,

because I would have had no idea if you didn't tell me. Like that was you. When the headbanger has won the WWF tag team championships, do you remember who was in the match with you guys? Oh, 100%. It was all legends. Legends. Legends.

So the titles were vacated to this point. Technically, yes, because that's when Dude Love and Stone Cold were tag champs. And Stone Cold had hurt his neck, wrestling and Owen at SummerSlam. So they couldn't defend the belts. So we found out four or five days before the pay-per-view that we were going to be slid into that spot. And we're just ecstatic to be on another pay-per-view. And, yeah, so it was LOD, the Godwins. and then Owen and Davey boy.

Yeah. They were. And the headbangers. We were all of a sudden just thrown into that mix. And again, we had no idea about anything other than we were just in another pay-review. So every time we were on a pay-view, we tried to step up our outfits. So we went to the thrift store. We bought wedding gowns and we dyed them black, specifically because we're like, we're in a title match on a pay-per-view.

Like, we need to have something a little bit different. Yeah. to be in there with them. I mean, you know, we had worked to Godwins. We had worked Davy and Owen. We worked LOD. So we worked all of them before. But just to be in a, you know,

I mean, we wrestled Davey and Owen a night after WrestleMania 13 for the belts. So that was one thing. You know, we had a title shot. But to be in that environment on the pay-review like that, we were just like all jacked up. Yeah. What was your reaction when you felt out you were going to win?

So we didn't know we were winning until like the day off. we had no idea. We put our stuff in the locker room. We're walking down the hall and here comes Cornette. And he goes, boys come with me. And we're like, is everything okay? He's like, just come with me. We're like, okay.

Cornett's called us a couple times on the road over some things we've done in the past. That weren't like bad, but it was a couple of things we had like situation we had to fix. So we're like, okay, so we walks down the steps. We go into the parking garage, which is just, underneath the Louisville, it was in Louisville, Kentucky, underneath the Louisville Gardens. So we're in the bowels of the Louisville Gardens and Jimmy's walking in the parking garage like to the back. We're like, Jimmy, what did we do that bad this time that you're taking this down here? He's like, nothing bad at all.

He goes, I just want to share this moment with you guys. We're like down here and like, we're totally confused. And he goes, I want to be the first one to tell you that you guys are winning the belts tonight. and we stood there and went, cool. And he goes, no, I brought you down here so you could jump around and get it out of your system now so you don't do it in front of everyone. So the three of us in the bowels of the Louisville Garden and the partnerage were jumping around that we were winning the belts. It was amazing. It was amazing.

And then to make it even better when we're in the meeting, all four of the tag teams are there and they're going through like this is going to happen. That's going to happen. and then it's going to be, you know, us and Owen and Davy Boy left and Stone Cold's going to come down. And as they were, I think it was Jack Lanza was the agent. And as he was saying, like, Stone Cold is going to come down to the ring. I literally go like this. I'm just covering in my mouth because I'm smiling so big. I'm trying to hide the smile.

Like, I was like duck on the pond. Like inside, I was like this on the outside. I was trying to be cool, which wasn't really working. And then they went through to finish how it was going to happen. And then we got up. We're like, all right, cool. We're like, thanks everybody, and I'll never forget it. The Godwin's turned around.

And they were like, this is awesome. We're happy for you guys. You guys can smile and jump around now if you want because we know that's what you're thinking. So literally, we all started hugging each other. And I'm like LOD jumped in on it and Owen and Davy Boy did. And then the match happens and I'm sitting in the locker room and had the belt across my waist. And like, I'm just sitting like this. I'm looking down just like it was just so surreal that I'm a tag team champion.

I'm the WWF tag team champion. And I looked at Owen and I go, is there like a felt bag for the belt? Like I have to put it in. He looks at him. He goes, stop being a mark. Kid, you've already had your moment. Move on. I was like, oh, sorry.

Like that started like that. But yeah, I was like, there's no bag for this. But he's like, just throwing your bag. I was like, okay. Your career in WWE was basically the length of the entire attitude era, right? Like you came in about the start of the attitude era. And when you left, it was about the end of the attitude era. What was it like being in the locker room with someone like Stone Cold?

It was awesome because everyone then, we all had the same goal. The goal was to beat WCW. WCW with the whole NWO thing. They were killing us in ratings. They were killing us. So that's all we wanted to do was, you know, get better ratings. You know, you would have your match and then they had the scoop sheets, you know, would come out the next day and like the segment,

whatever your segment was, what the rating was. And then you would look at the rating on WCW. Who did you compete against? And did you win or lose? And if you lost, you got heat. Like the boys would give you heat about it. But everyone knew the role. Like we knew what we were doing in that segment,

what the storyline had to be. We just wanted to be it the best it could be. And then, you know, we'd have guys like Brett would come up to us before he left and he would pull us aside immediately. The first match we had under contract with the headbangers, the Godwins came over to us. We're like, man, you guys are great.

Like, we're so happy you made it. Like, because we knew a lot of them from doing jobs all the years. So they were like so looking forward to working with you. Brett pulled us aside. After every match, Brett would pull us aside and like talk to us about little things we could do. But that attitude at our time, like everyone just wanted the same goal. And we knew where we were on the card, what our purpose was, what our job was. It wasn't to try and try and do better than someone else or do something to get to elevate ourselves.

It was just whatever our job is to get to higher rating to suck people in. That's what it was about. We were all kind of on the same page. Who was the locker room leader for you guys during the attitude era? Taker easily. Undertaker, 100%. Even at that time. Even at that time, 100%.

Undertaker was, Ferook was, you just knew certain guys the way they carried themselves and talked about things. And like, Undertaker, he would get into the locker room, he would grab a chair and boom right in the middle of locker room and put his bag there. Like here I am. He didn't have his own locker room. He didn't have that back then. No, he didn't have his own locker room.

He sat with all of us. All the boys sat with all. Yeah, Brett, they all like stole. Everyone had the same. We were all in the same place. And then we would all sit there and like joke about the night before and like, you know, joke about the night before something that happened or like someone had a shitty match and give him a hard time about it.

Everyone was everyone was together. The camaraderie was there for the one reason of just being a family to do it together with the goal of just beating WCW. How many matches did Beaver Cleavage have? One match. One match. One match. Four vignettes undefeated. Beaver cleavage is undefeated. Beaver cleavage is undefeated, yes.

This is the fascinating thing about wrestling. Wrestling is forever, right? You have one match, but it lives on forever. Here we are, 27 years. still talking about it. Still talking about one of the worst gimmicks in the history of wrestling. Do you think it was one of the worst gimmicks? Probably.

I still to this day, don't know where it truly came from. How the idea came up. I mean, the vignettes were some... I think the vignettes could possibly be some of the best vignettes ever done. I mean... Realistically? Seriously? Yeah.

I mean, they're hysterical. I mean, I'm sitting there and I come out of a room, and I tell my mother that I can't find the cat. He said, I can't find a cat anywhere. And she turns around and she goes, you can't find pussy anywhere? And I go, no, I can't find pussy anywhere. Meanwhile, she's peeling a zucchini.

And she goes, well, pussy's probably under the bed. She goes, I know what would get pussy or get pussy out to come around. I mean, for me, like I have a scrape on my knee and she's cleaning my knees. And I go, when it comes to working on your knees, my mom knows best. I mean, that's just, to me, they're, they're, they're, priceless. It's very of that time, right? Like it's perfect for the attitude. There were no rules back then. There were no, do whatever you have to do to get over to draw ratings. So you have no idea where this idea came from? I have a general, I guess, I guess.

First overseas to where I did, we went to Kuwait. It's first overseas to where I was ever on. Jerry Briscoe was the agent in charge of the trip. He gets my passport. He starts laughing. Now my passport picture at that point was from when I was like 20 years old. So he looks at it and he starts laughing. And he goes, oh, look at you. You look just like leave it to beaver. And I'm like, okay. So like that trip, I was called beef.

And then I found this out the other day. I didn't know this. That Bruce Pritchard, sorry, Bruce Pritchard was a huge leave it to beaver fan. So everyone wants to blame it on Russo. I mean, Russo helped with the vignettes and he was there when we did all the vignettes. but I don't know who actually came up with the idea of, let's have, leave it to be of her character, and we're going to insinuate that he's having sex with his mother.

I don't know who came up with it, but when it was presented to me, I was like, okay. And I was home. Glenn was hurt. He was rehabbing his knee. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm going to get used. I'm going to be on TV. I'm on TV.

Then I go to house shows. I make money when I'm on house shows because back then we didn't have a guaranteed contract. So I'm like, oh, this, sure, whatever. I had never done singles before other than those three matches I had my first, when I first started down at the Monster Factor's. I was like, yeah, this will be cool. Yeah. And I was like, sure. And then a vignettes were funny.

And then for me, it was a character. So I was able to dive into this big kid wearing a propeller hat bearing my face in my mother's boobs every time I went out to TV or staring at her boobs. Like everything revolved around my head being in her boobs. So I was like, this is funny. It's fun. And I don't know, we'll see what happens. I don't think people realize it lasted like a month. No, it was literally five weeks.

Yeah. Yeah. It was five weeks. And then so I did the four vignette showed. Then I had to one match with Christian. Yep. And then the next week is when, no, I think it was maybe one or two weeks later, they had me walk off the set live.

It was in Memphis. I was in Memphis. It was live on TV. I walked off. And what was the idea to kill this? character? I think there were things behind the scenes. Owen had just had his accident and passed. There was some sexual harassment charges being

discussed or thrown out. I don't know if they ever happened or not. So anything that was edgy like that, they were squashing. They were squashing right away. So then were you like, well, what's my character now? Where do I go? Yeah. So they said to me, they said, they said, yeah, so we're going to, you're just going to be Chaz. kid from Jersey, you're just here to have fun. And I went, what kind of description is that? Yeah.

And I went, okay, so. You're here to have fun. Yeah, I'm like, here I am is some, I'm headbanger, Mosh, who I know. Yeah. Now I'm this beaver cleavage guy who I knew what I had to do. Like, I just acting like a big kid, like just wanted to make my mom happy. And then it was like, Chas with a girlfriend. There's Mariana, the girl.

They were like, oh, that's going to be your girlfriend. And the whole idea was she convinced me just to be Chaz, a kid from New Jersey. Jersey just to, and I didn't know what to do. I'm like, who is Chaz? Like, I had to try and figure out who Chaz was. And then they came up with the storyline of me beating my girlfriend. So now I'm a, a woman beater on TV, and which actually leaked into my personal life a little bit because some people don't realize it's TV, it's entertainment. And they were like, guys at the airport, TSA, you see the TSA, same TSA agents going through Philly. We'd see him. And like all of a sudden, they're like, what's up with this new thing?

And I go, dude, it's, it's, it's work. Like, it's not real. Like, I'm not beating my girlfriend up. Like, you got treated differently. Like, my bags would get searched more at TSA because of this. But my, Glenn and I, when we were tag chance, we'd put our belt in the bag and boom, go through. Now I go through, you have nail clippers in your bag.

You can't have those. Boom. And I'm like, what? Like, TV's not, like, that's not real. Like, it's not. But, yeah, it's just, it's just. kind of leaked in and then um but it's still the whole time i was trying to figure out who chas was like it just wasn't it wasn't easy to try to figure that out because you had to figure out like

okay what moves do i want to do and because i didn't know what to do is you ended up figuring it out um i think i started to and then um then they brought glembach and then they put us back together as a headbanger so i think as i really started feeling my groove and and figuring out and started having decent matches other than just me going out there and trying to act like a goofball, or just getting beat up because the locker room was now against me because it showed vignettes at the locker room thrown me out and I wasn't allowed in the locker room.

There was times I wasn't allowed in a building because I was a woman beater and all these other things. Yeah, I think I literally started to get comfortable and then Glenn came back. What was the reason they told you when they didn't renew your contract? So you leave WWE in 2002, right? Yes. So what happened was they brought. Glenn back. They put us together.

Glenn wasn't in the best shape. One of the things that was Vince's pet peeve was, if you're off with a significant amount of time, you better be working out. You better come back in better shape because what else you're doing? I'm paying you to stay home. So you better work out. So Glenn rehabbed his knee, but he didn't work out. And when he came back, that's when the Dudleys were coming in. Matt and Jeff went her way up. Christian and Edge were doing her thing.

And when Glenn came back, I was like, oh, we're going to get thrown into the mix with them. Because now we're the most tenured tag team there. There's no other tag team has been there longer than us. The Godwins were doing a Southern justice thing, but they weren't doing it a lot. So basically we were one of the top teams. And when they came back, like it was nothing. We weren't included. I was like, what the hell is going on?

So they had us do our little thing, and then they put the stupid cones on us, and then they split us up. and that's when they put me with Delo. And then, yeah, so at the end of all of that, we went to, they sent Delo, P. Gas, and I to Puerto Rico to get us back into ring shape to bring us back up to TV. And then I went up back to Philly to do a dark match. Did the match.

Unfortunately, the guy I was working with, like pulled his back out on like the first spot. So we couldn't do anything. The match went like two minutes. And I went into JR. The next night we were in Baltimore, I think. And I was like, oh, I'm going to have another shot to do a dark match again to kind of re-show them who I am after being here for so long. I wasn't listed in having a match. So I went into JR and I was like, you know, how come I'm not doing a dark match?

I know last night was not great because, you know, he got hurt. And he looked right at me. He goes, Chas, he goes, you're in great shape. You do great work. He goes, creative doesn't know who Chaz is. So I don't know what to do with you. And I looked at him. I go, no shit.

I go, I don't know who Chaz is. He goes, well, we sang you to Puerto Rico to figure it out. I've been to Puerto Rico for three months. Like, we all know who Mosh is. Let me come back and be Mosh. Like, Mosh is an established character. Mosh could be a singles wrestler. I don't have to be headbanger Mosh.

I can just be Mosh. And he goes, no, he goes, we want Chaz. But Creative doesn't know who Chaz is, doesn't know what to do with Chaz. So unless we can. figure out who Chaz is and you can come up with some way to fit in. He goes, when this was in August of 2001, he goes, we will not be resigning you to a new contract in January when your contract's up. So I was like, okay. So I was walking down a hall and I saw Bruce Pritchard. I felt more comfortable with Bruce than I did with JR. I just felt like Bruce and I were closer.

Like I could vent to him a little bit more about different things. So that's what I said to him. I go, like, who the hell is? Like, I don't know who Chaz is. Like, let me come back as much. Like, Bruce, what do I do? Yeah. And he goes, watch the program and send in ideas. If you see a spot, maybe where you could fit in or get a story.

Because the problem was, that's right when they bought WCW. So they had two companies worth of wrestlers now. Yeah. With limited spots. Yeah. And back then, they didn't have a Smackdown crew and a raw crew. It was all one crew. So you had to find a spot.

And once you were off TV and I had been off TV since January. So I was off eight months to try to figure out a spot. So that's what I did. I went home. I watched. I saw something. I was like, oh,

this could be a good spot for me. Let me come up with this idea. I send the idea in. Now I'm watching TV. I'm like, oh, there's my idea being used on someone else. I'm like,

okay. Something else popped up. I saw it. A DDP came in doing his positive speaking thing with his bright shiny teeth and ends with a smile all the time. And I was like, what he needs is like the little devil guy over here, like doing his dirty work behind it. Like, DDP's the face. Yeah. I'm the positive guy. Like, you do this and do it the positive, you do it the right way. Yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, behind his back, I'm doing all the dirty work. There's this guy

doing all the dirt. He's cheating. He's doing this. He's doing it. He's causing shit in the back. But meanwhile, DDP's like, I don't know what's going on. Yeah. I'm this positive. of a figure. And a couple weeks later, there's Christian with DDP doing everything I pitched. I'm like, shit. So the next idea I sent in, I go, please hire me as a writer because you obviously like my ideas because you're using them with other people. And then that was it.

Yeah, that's, and that's how it ended. It just, it was very surreal because I still remember to this day, like, walking down to the mailbox and getting that last check. and I stood in front of the mailbox and I opened it. And I'm like, this is the last check I have. I had no idea what I was going to do. I knew I was thinking about moving to Florida. And I was like, what am I going to do?

And I had this last check in my hand going, now what? And I literally stood there going, shit. Like, what am I going to do? I had to figure it out. So was it a huge surprise when you get called to come back to WWE in 2016? Um, yes. So what happened with that is I would see road dog on into indie shows doing indie shows. And whenever WW was in town or anywhere near me, I would call. I would try and get a hold of hunter and say, hey, is there any way for me to, I'm not looking to come back. I said, just want to do one match at this point

I had a son. My son was born in 2004. He had seen me do hundreds of indie shows. And then when Glenn came back and him and I started tagging again, like he's seen that. All I wanted was one time for him to see me in a WWA ring. That's it. In an arena or whatever it was, that's, that's all I wanted. And every time I reached out to the office, I got no because of insurance purposes. And I'm like, you know, you don't have physical. You have this. And I'm like, you know, you don't have this. I'm like, I'll get a physical, I get blood work, I'll do whatever you want, I'll sign a waiver. I'll sign all the waivers you want. I just need one match, please.

That's all I'm asking for. And I kept being told no, but I would see Road Dog. And I'd be like, dude, you're still close with Hunter. Like, can you talk to them? Just one match. That's all I want. I don't care where it is, what it is. And then, um, so all of a sudden in 2016, I got a text and it said, hey, are you and Glenn

available to do Smackdown Live on Tuesday night. And it was like Foxwood's casino or, or something up in Connecticut. And I'm like, okay. Yeah, nice rib, well played. Like, okay. And then immediately he called me and it was road dog. And he goes, no, no, it's not a rib. He goes, we got the storyline we're doing. You know, we'd love to have you on Glenn. I couldn't say yes, fast enough. And then a couple days later, I get a text room. Sorry, dude. He goes, I didn't realize in Foxwood, wherever the casino was, you had to have full blood work done, full physical. he goes, we won't have enough time to get that dumb by Tuesday.

He goes, I want to try and keep the storyline going to bring you to Dallas the following Tuesday, but no promises. He goes, I'll do my best. I text in the back. Thanks, Brian. I appreciate you thinking of me. Like, appreciate the thought. Yeah, like, whatever.

That was it. Yeah, and I'm like, that's not happening. Yeah. So I actually hadn't watched WWE, and I couldn't, it'd been a while a year or two. I hadn't watched anything. I was a little built bitter and salty about being like the way I was like not resigned and all it says I just kind of separated myself um but at Tuesday night I'm watching Smackdown I'm like what storyline trying to see the storyline where we would have fit in never saw it and I'm like

oh I don't see where so I let it go Wednesday comes and goes nothing Thursday comes and goes nothing and then um actually have it saved on my phone I got to a tweet, a message on Twitter from Howard Finkel saying, hey, you know, please call me at this number. And I saw it before I even saw it. Like I saw it. And then like five minutes later on my phone rang. And it said it was a 203 number, so which I know was Stanford. So I'm like, hello.

And he's like, Chaz. I'm like, yes. He goes, Howard Finkel here. He goes, to know you and I don't know if you saw my message on Twitter. He goes, but you and Glenn are needed in Dallas, Texas on Tuesday. night for uh smackdown live are you available hell yeah we're available um so that and that was three four o'clock on friday so that's whenever oh my god this is really happening yeah um and then uh yeah hadn't been there in 15 years on tv in 15 years and now it was the opportunity for my son

to actually see me but not only see me but see it on tv live in the w w ring was even was even better yeah Yeah, so leading up to that, I had said to him, I was like, what can I do? Because that was the whole thing. The whole thing for me was for him. That's all I wanted. For your son. And in 2016, he was what? He was 12.

So, and again, he, I talked about it earlier. He had no idea, like, to the level that I did it or anything like that. So I said to him, I said, what can I do for you? So you know, it's just for you when I get to the ring. and we went through a bunch of stuff. Like, I used to do the monkey face. And I was thinking, you want me to do a monkey face? He goes, no.

So I used to do it a monkey face for my niece. When she was young, I did it to her, like just normal. And then I would do it on TV. So when she watched, she knew it was for her. And he goes, no, he goes, that's for Amy. He goes, you know, I don't want the monkey face. I'm like, all right. I said, we'll figure it out.

And then he came to me. He goes, I want you to dab. I looked down. I mean, that's when the dab was big with Cam Newton. I looked down and I go, I hate that. I go, I hate the dab. I think it's stupid. And I'm not doing a dab because that is exactly why I want you to do to dab.

So I went, okay. So we went back. It just worked out perfectly because a lot of times when you're doing stuff in the rain, you want to make sure a camera gets you. You talk to the camera guys or production. You say, hey, I'm going to do this. Like, can you get this camera over here? It just was the perfect.

I didn't talk to any of about it. It was just a perfect thing. I did my role and I hit that corner and bam there it was and uh the greatest part about it is my wife at the time she set up her phone behind Tyler and she videoed him watching me so I got to see his reaction I got like my entrance coming down like I got I watched the TV yeah but he was the TV was here and he was like here and I got to see the whole thing and as I'm coming down and he was like he could see his face like he was smiling he was he was smiling.

But the reaction of when I hit the dab, he was like, and he was like this. He was going like this. He turned his head this way. And I'm like, you teared up. He was no,

I had something in my eye. He goes to ceiling fan was going to blue in my eye. But like that's probably the greatest two minute. I haven't saved on my phone. That's the greatest two minute video I have of him as him being able to. And I'm so grateful to my ex for filming that because, all I wanted was for him to see me, but then I got to watch him, watch me.

You got kids now, so you're going to... Being a dad's the greatest. It's goosebumps. And for him to be able to do that, I say it. So in the back of the book, at the end of the book, I write kind of chronological order of, like,

when my top 10. So the only reason it's not number one is because I did it, sorry, chronologically, but that's got to be the highlight of my career, watching him, watch me get in that ring. It was just, and then we had,

you know, we had a decent match with Heath and Rhino because we knew them also. So they were like, no, whatever you guys want to do, let us know, like we're going to do. We want you to get your stuff in. And it was just, it was amazing. What a cool moment. When you went back to catering that day, so you hadn't been in WWE at this point for 14 years.

When you go back to catering, are you seeing some faces you recognize? So what happened was, it changed. Like, the locker room was, so we heard stories about how to locker room was so different than we were there. Because when we were there, it was, you know, guys were playing dominoes and guys are playing cards and guys are just ribbon on each other. And, you know, it was just fun. We got there. It was so quiet and reserved. And we're walking down the hall and we see the signs. It says, mail locker room on this door. And then it said

extras on this door. And we're like, are we extras? Are we like male wrestlers? Like, talent? Like, we didn't know where to go. Yeah. And Matt Cardona, back then he was Zach rider. He pops out of locker room and he sees this. He's like, oh, headbanders. He's like, come on in here with us. So we were like, oh, my God, thank goodness. Like, Matt ran out and saw us. So we sat with them. But then the next thing was, all right, let's go somewhere. And because the thing was when we were there and somebody would come, you could tell it was awkward for them. And then we felt awkward. Like, this isn't our house anymore. Like, we're guests here. So you want to kind of just be quiet, stay out of the way.

So the idea was going to catering and to eat, but then to find someone we knew that we could just sit down with right away, kind of get out of the way. And their idea was, where's Kyoto? We're looking for Mike Kyoto. We're like, where's Kyoto at?

We love that guy. He's awesome. We're like, Kyoto, Chimel, like one of those guys, where are they at? And we walked in and we kind of stood there and kind of looked around for a second.

And then from across the room, it was instant eye contact. It was John Cena. And Cena jumps up. He's like, shit, headbangers are here. Heard you guys were coming.

And he comes running across, literally running. across the thing. He's like, gives us a hug. And he's like, man, I'm so happy. You guys are here. Like, this is great. I heard you were going to be here.

I'm so excited. He goes, you know what? He goes, grab some food and come over and sit down and talk to me. He goes, I'd love to catch up with you guys and see what's going on. Now, before then, we only met Cina one time. We did an indie show in California when he was the prototype. He was just starting. Yeah.

He was just starting. So, like, I never met John Cina. I met prototype. Yeah. So for him to do that, we were like, oh, so maybe we'd, do still kind of fit in. You know what I mean? Like we didn't feel like so much outsiders.

But we sat down with him for, I don't know, 10, 15 minutes. And then he was like, guys, I like to talk more. We're like, no, John, we understand. Like you got shit to do. Yeah, go ahead. But it just eased us so much. And then when we went out, like we started talking to Heath and Rhino and Mike Rotundo was, was our agent.

And we walk over and we say hi to him. And he's like, oh, he goes, this is going to be easy. We're like, all right, cool, what are we doing? He goes, whatever you want. So what he said, he goes, just tell me what you're doing. He goes, there's the time limit you have. You guys figure it out. Just tell me what you're doing.

So I know, he goes, I have no worries about this match. We were like, cool. So then Heath and Reinhow were both like, so we want to make sure you guys get your. Heath's like, you know, you got your drop down close on. He goes, I want to take your flapjack. Like, we want power bomb leg drop in here. We were like, oh, shit, like, this is awesome. They want to take all of our stuff.

We're expecting to just come and just, you know, bump around and bounce for you guys. Yeah. But, yeah, it was awesome. You were on the list on www.com of one of the most ridiculous action figures ever. Do you remember the WWF Stomp 2 underwater siege action figure? Oh, of course. I remember every single action figure I have. It's a little silly looking.

It's not a little silly looking. It's very silly looking. So we were stomped two. So the worst part about it is they had a stomp one. And they were like, oh, this one over really well. We need to do a stomp two. You're like, there's a Steve Austin one. And he's like Scuba Man Steve.

Scuba Steve. Scuba Steve. That was before Big Daddy. But yeah, scuba Steve. Yeah, it was weird. Unexpected. But shit, it was another action figure. Sure.

It can't complain. It was awesome. But it's weird. It was very weird. And they were just trying to, I guess, branch out into different. because I know to have like a bunch of different series now. I don't know them like, you know, Matt and Brian do it with like Elite 1, Elite 2 or this series or that series. So I think they were just trying to come up with different stuff.

And the cool part was, yeah, is why the outfit was super weird. It was a different outfit than what they normally put on us. Because before it was always like a headbanger shirt, the skirt, maybe a different colored boxer shorts or, you know, some of the shirts had real men wear skirts on the back and some didn't. But it was just something different and weird. What are the accessories you have? I had a snorkel. I think that's a snorkel. Of course.

Because why wouldn't you? And then there's a, I'm going to guess that's like a jet propelled. Like a jet pack? Hack, yeah. And then a gun to shoot fish. Like a harpoon gun? Yeah. Of course.

Yeah. So you're like Aquaman. Yeah. Only not as cool. Without all the air. What a figure. Yeah. It was, yeah, it was something different.

And do you have one of those? I do. Oh, of course. I have at least one of all of our figures that were made. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So July 23rd this year, you guys have put this out there. The headbangers are going to have their last match.

We are having our, we are having our last in-ring match. Wow. How do you feel about that? I don't know yet. Like, I'm still, I guess, still trying to process it because it's been. been, it'll be June this year, June 20, June of 2026 will be 33 years for me. It will be 35 for Glenn. I think I'm at the point now where I've always said, people ask me like, you know, I'm 54 now and are like, you know, how much long are you going to do it? My answer has always been,

as long as I feel like I'm contributing and I'm having fun and promoters want to pay me what we want. That's the biggest thing. But my, my big thing is, is the last couple of times I say, As long as I have fun, the last couple of times maybe haven't been as much fun. I have more fun at the PC, I think, like helping, coaching, guiding, and watching those guys go and pull things off. Because I feel when I help them with their match, part of me is in that match. And when they pulled off and the excitement from them, I get excited over that also. Glenn and I joke around all the time. Like, we're up at 5 o'clock in the morning sitting at the airport waiting to fly out at 6 o'clock.

and we're like, why are we doing this? And then we get to the show. And then we were in the locker room. We're with all the boys. We're like, oh, this is why we're doing it. And then we get in the ring and we go, oh, this is why we're doing it. And then, you know, you get back to the hotel at 2 a.m.

You have to get up at 5 to go to the airport. And I go, why are we doing this? I think some of the funds going away. The other part of it also is my body's not beat up, but I don't move the same as I did before. and I feel some of the stuff we're doing in a ring is maybe slowing down a little. And one of the biggest things is I don't ever want anyone to watch one of our matches now and go, these guys suck or they don't have it anymore or I feel like I'm not contributing or like I'm not keeping up.

For the most part, I think because the way we can figure out the matches and put the matches together, we can still go. I mean, we can still go. It's just a matter of, it's just time, I think, just to, move on to something else. And I go up to the PC quite often. I did a show last summer and very simple belly-to-back suplex. You put your belly up against her back.

You lift them up like this and move. Just let them fall anywhere. You just fall next to them. I did it with this guy who I was trusting him because I was told like he was really good and blah, blah, blah. And he lifts me up. And when he does, he spins around in a circle and then just falls back. And on my way back, I'm going, I'm going to land right on the back of my head.

And the next week, I was actually going up to the PC. So as I'm falling backwards, all of this is going through my head. You're about to land on the back of your head. Make sure your chin's tucked all the way down. And what happens if you get hurt? You can't go to the PC because you go through a physical when you get to the PC. And I'm like, shit. Again, all of this is happening as I'm falling.

And I hit the mat and I went, motherfucker. And he goes, are you okay? And I just laid there for a second. And I felt fine, but I just laid there for a second. I go, if I'm fine, I go, I'm going to donkey punch you as hard as I can in the balls. And I literally got up because I told him just lift because it's a move I've done with Billy gone a thousand times. Sure. I do the backslash in the corner when I do it.

Another time is like Billy would catch me. I would jump up. He would catch me here. And Billy just turned and then boom, you go backwards. Yeah. But he went this way with me. So it's a different bump. and just factor in not having as much fun and then factor in the fact that now if I get

injured, I'm at the point where it's going to take me longer to recover. I'm older. It's going to take me longer to recover. I could miss out on other opportunities I have. And, you know, the risk is always there to get hurt. But why am I doing that now? Like, I don't need to do it anymore. It's a fun hobby and the fun's kind of coming down. And I don't want to I don't want to hurt a possibility of not being able to go back to the PC, if all of that makes sense. I know you had a scare with cancer. Yes. 2018?

2018, yes. It's just terrifying, right? So you battle cancer and you're cancer free now, which is amazing. Yes, thank you. Does that factor into this? Not really, because the only time I remember, giving you a cut spot there. The only time I actually remember that I have or had cancer with the wrestling side is when I'm getting dressed and I'm putting the thing on because the scar is down here. Oh, wow.

So what kind of cancer did you? I had thyroid cancer. What a scar. That spread to my lymph nodes. So they took out my thyroid. It was July 31st, 2018. It took out my thyroid and 122 lymph nodes. I caught it early detection.

I caught it just in time because it was a fast spreading seed. How did you know? I had a lump. So you had the big scar here. Yeah. And then there's another little, I think that might be it right there. Yeah. There's another little scar.

So I had a lump. It was probably between Thanksgiving and Christmas of 2017. I found a lump. And I was like, oh, it doesn't hurt. I'm pushing on it. And I'm probing on it and moving it all around. It didn't hurt. So I was like, oh, let me just ride it out.

Maybe it goes away on sort of gland or something. I don't know. and it didn't go away. So I finally went to my primary doctor and he sent me off to get an ultrasound. And this actually gets funny. He sends me off for an ultrasound, brings me back in. He goes, I don't think it's a big deal. He goes, but you need to go so you see an endocrinologist.

My personality is, unless there's something to worry about, I'm not worrying about it. Like, why worry about something that could happen? Because it might not happen or it might happen over here. So let me worry about it when I have something. something to worry about it. So the doctor tells me there's nothing to worry about, but I'm going to send you into endocrinologist. I'm like, I agree. I go to endocrinologist and she's feeling down here. She's like, oh, I feel the nodule. I'm like, I don't know what a nodule is. I go, but I got a lump and the lumps over here. Yeah. And I grab her hand up there. She goes, I'm not worried about that

lump. I'm worried about the lump on your thyroid. And I'm like, oh, is that where your thyroid is? Like, I had no idea where my thyroid is. I know I had one, but I didn't know anything about it. And she's like, yeah, and there's a nodule on there. She goes, it's probably nothing to worry about. That becomes the theme here. Nothing to worry about. We're going to send you for a biopsy. I'm like, okay.

Sends me off to the biopsy. So biopsy comes back one of three ways. Yes, you have cancer. No, you don't. We're inconclusive. Mine comes back inconclusive. So she goes, we're going to send you for another biopsy, but we're going to make it a little more in depth.

I'm like, okay. Go for another biopsy. It comes back inconclusive. So I'm like, Okay, she goes, probably nothing to worry about, but I'm going to send you to the surgeon. And I'm like, okay, nothing to worry about, but now I've got to go see a surgeon. I'm like, okay. So I go see the surgeon.

Same thing. He's feeling it up and sends me for another biopsy. So I'm three biopsies in. And they still don't know what it is. They notice something, but they don't know what it is. So my doctor then, Dr. Bimston, he's amazing. He brings in another doctor that does. ultrasound. He's an ultrasound specialist. So he puts this layer over the ultrasound that shows

vascular layer. So your neck in here should not be red because that's where all your lymph nodes are at. This is, this is what I've learned. You have all these lymph nodes, but lymph nodes, if it's red, it's a little dot because there's really no veins or arteries going through your lymph nodes. So he's the only ultrasound on this side. It's all black. It's all black. He gets like right here, starts from it. Then it's just beat red on this side. And the ultrasound doctor goes, yeah, I'm 100% sure. So the surgeon goes, well, I want to send him out for a TG test just to check, just to make sure. He goes, you can waste this time in your time. He goes, but I'm 100% sure. And he goes, well, maybe just to be safe. And again, one last time, the ultrasound doctor goes,

I'm 100% sure. And I'm laying on the table with them, look, and I'm looking at the screen up here of all this stuff. And I'm like, I'm right here. I go, what are you 100% sure of? And he looks down his plane and he goes, oh, he goes, you have thyroid cancer. That's spread to your lymph nodes. Wow. And I went, okay. So you guys have been telling me all along. There's nothing to worry about. So now I need to worry a little bit. Like, what does that mean? So my surgeon said to me, he said, well, he goes, we got to take it out. It's got to come out. No, if fans are butch, you need surgery. And I said, okay, he goes, there's one of two ways, one of two things we can do. He goes, we can schedule immediate emergency surgery.

He goes, like, I could take you right now. He goes, we can get it out. He goes, the problem is, I don't know what's in there. I don't know what I, it's so many things going on in there. And, you know, he goes, I don't know. He goes, or we can delay it six weeks and now, but during those six weeks, you're going to be in and out of doctor's offices two or three times a week, getting different tests done, this done, that done.

He goes, but this will lag. give me the data, I don't know exactly what's in there, exactly where I need to go. So I'm not exploring. Because if we do it right now, he goes, I'm exploring. He goes, I could be in there. Like, here's, I don't know what I, what's in there. And I looked at him, I said, am I going to die in the next six weeks? He goes, no.

Like six weeks it is. So, yeah, so we scheduled it out six weeks. I went in July 31st. Like I said, lymph node or thyroid came out, 122 lymph nodes. and I didn't know this. I didn't realize you had that many. You have like 800 lymph nodes in your body. 300 of them are in your neck.

So I lost a third of them on this side. And yeah, so I went into, you know, I had to surgery. And then I was supposed to be in the hospital for like three or four days after that. They sent me home the next day because everything healed up that fast. Fortunate, some odd reason, I heal very quickly. And then I ended up developing a leak. my neck just started blown up out of nowhere a week later and they called a colic leak and um so your body when you eat your food and digest it there's a um canal it comes up and it goes up near lymph nodes

your lymph nodes kind of disperse like what's needed and to where it needs to go or waste or whatever and um mine just kept filling up right here and uh they had to go in i was in and out of doctors and hospitals like getting drained because i'd keep draining it and the pocket there so it was kind of like a balloon and then you stick the needle and drain it, the balloon deflates, it goes away. But I had, it was like honeycombs in there. So there was all these little holes, these little pockets said to keep trying to drain. Ended up having a second surgery three weeks later, which makes the scar even bigger over here. Sure.

And the idea there was he said out of all the surgeries, he did research across the United States, you got a bunch of different doctors involved trying to figure out how to stop this leak. Because he put me on like a fat-free diet. I was not have any fat. I was in a hospital for days just getting like fed through intravenously just to try to make it stop. So he finally came in and he said to me, he goes, so I have a plastic surgeon that's here.

He goes, we're going to go in. He goes, I think what the problem is there's such a big gap there that your body thinks something needs to be there. So that's what it's doing up. He goes, but I have a plastic surgeon here. And I'm like, what's plastic surgeon do? And he goes, we're going to take your neck muscle over here and we're going to cut it. And we're going to piece it up and we're going to fill that in.

So your body thinks there's. And I'm like, all right, so that's going to fix this. They're like, we're 99% sure because the only negative is you is you're going to have an indent on your neck over here. So I'm like, I've been dealing with this for a month. Like, whatever we're going to do, let's just fix it. Yeah. I got to live. Like, you know, I felt fine.

I never felt sick. So I'm in the hospital with my work computer. Like I'm trying to work, do emails. And I'm trying to do phone calls with customers and things like that. Like life was still going on. So I get going to have surgery, come out of surgery, and I'm all bandaged like this. And I'm like, shit, that was bad. I'm like, this is going to be like I hurt.

Like I couldn't move. I'm like, oh, what just happened? And doctor came in. He goes, everything went great. Get some rest. I'll be in tomorrow. Like, okay. So my surgeon walked in the next morning with the plastic surgeon.

and they're like everything went great. I ended up getting a fever, which actually made all the ducks closed, so it stopped the leak. But the plastic surgeon said to me, he goes, I'm so happy I didn't have to cut that neck muscle. And I go, you didn't have to cut it? He goes, no.

He goes, the good part is, he goes, the reason I'm happy, he goes, the normal person's neck muscle is probably like that big. He goes, yours is like, he goes, because I joke around, I have a fat neck. He goes, it's all muscle. He goes, it'd have been like, that thing would have been like taking a butter knife

trying to dig through a steak, we're all a piece of steak. He said to piece it up, he goes, your indentation would have been ridiculous. He said, and you would have went through months of rehab. Wow.

He goes, but yeah, he goes, so the fever stopped the leak. So we went in there, and there was an infection there. We cleaned the infection out. He goes, we'll keep you here a few more days and we'll see what happens. So during that time is when I was on the pick line.

I was getting fed intravenously. All of a sudden, the pick line stopped working. So the doctor came in and he goes, pick line's not working. He goes, I'm going to take it a sign like the fever. We're going to take it as a sign. He goes, I'm going to pull the pick line out. He goes, enough for the next 24 hours, I'm going to feed you the fattiest food you want to eat, cheese steaks, french fries, pizza, whatever you want. We're going to give you, if you have no leaks in 24 hours, you go home.

24 hours, no leaks. I went home. You beat cancer. Be cancer. I did one dose for radiation. And then, yeah, that was it. It's been good ever since. You've got an incredible story. and I'm so glad that it's now out there for the world to see beneath the skirt. Is the best way for people to get this to go to chasmash.com? Chasmosh.com.

I'm about sure off the shirt. Shmash.com. Yeah, you can get it there. It's on Kindle. It's on Amazon. If you want it signed, the only way you're getting it signed is chasmash.com because then I get them, I have them,

and then I ship them out that way. Amazon, you're getting it straight from Amazon, but it's on Kindle. Yeah, a hardbacker. out now. So it's hilarious. You can get it virtually. You can get it soft and out a hard back's out so you can get me hard too. Well, I need a hard back book now as well. Yes, hard back book as well. Yes. Thank you so much for coming in here. No, thank you. This was awesome. This was fun. I'm going to ask you the question. I ask everybody at the end. You've already

said the word grateful, so I love it. Gratitude is such a huge thing for me. What are three things today right now, Chaz, that you're grateful for? Oh, grateful for my son. I'm a big believer in with him of, I broke a cycle with how Maya was raised from my father. I had a very good childhood. I never went without. My dad was never around. And when my dad was bored, I was his entertainment. And I'll leave it at that.

So whenever something would happen with my son, I would say to myself, what would my dad do? I did the opposite. it. My son and I are great friends. He's such an amazing kid. I'm so, I'm super proud of him. I'm so grateful for him. This is going to sound really silly too, but I am grateful for my ex. We've remained friends over getting divorced and things like that, which I think shows a lot to my son that, listen, yeah, even though we're not together, we can still get along and you can still have a good productive life without bickering and yelling and screaming and all that stuff back and forth. The last thing I'm grateful for is just life.

I mean, this is you take the situation you have. I've been dealt a lot of different situations. I've been dealt a lot of different hands. And if you use cards, I've been dealt a lot of different hands. It's a matter of what you do with it, which you're given and how can you make the best of it. A very positive person. I look at everything. And if there's negative in it,

there's negative in everything. But I try to scrape the negative back and say, okay, what can I make? What can I get positive out of this? I'm very fortunate. A lot of people say to me, oh, you're so lucky. I'm like, luck is winning the lottery.

You have no say over it. I'm lucky if I win a lottery. I'm fortunate because I've worked my ass off my entire life to get the things that I have. And I'm very fortunate for all of those. things um yeah so just life in general i still have the life i'm still learning i'm still growing i'm doing different things and life keeps presenting me with these different opportunities um so yeah so the biggest thing would be yeah my son and in life i mean that that's what it boils down to

thank you so much sir thank you this is awesome jim roem takes on sports why because i have a job to do with rapid fire takes so i don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.