Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Heidenreich On That Michael Cole Segment, Undertaker Feud, Poetry, Legion Of Doom, Life After WWE

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Heidenreich (@JonHeidenreich7) is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in New Orleans, LA to discuss how the viral photo of him working at Walmart made this interview happen, playing professional football before signing with WWE, how poetry became part of his character, being managed by Paul Heyman, his infamous Michael Cole segment, feuding with The Undertaker, winning the Tag Team Championships with Road Warrior Animal as part of the Legion Of Doom, why he was released from WWE, being in the same NFL training camp as Goldberg, and much more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. John Haydenwright. Yes, sir. Great to see you. Yeah, thank you, man, for having me. It's tremendous to be here. I feel honored, you know.

No, my pleasure. This is your first interview in, what, like 10 years? A long time, man. Wow. Yeah. Been way too long, man. It's just, but it's good. It's like builds up for something, you know.

I mean, I'm coming back with the best dude that I've, I mean, I was out of the scene, but when I mentioned your name and had people telling me, like, dude, you don't realize this dude is like epic, you know, like the new word for being over or whatever, epic. And I said, man, all the guys that I've known from wrestling from the Indies and stuff, the younger guys, they're like, man, this is insane, dude. This is like, you're going back. You're going back to the top of the mountain and stuff. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, no, man.

Tremendous. I didn't know your history, man. I'm finding out more about it. I'm, like, I'm impressed, man. Well, like, I mean, you want to talk about history. Yeah. You've got incredible history. Yeah, it's crazy.

And when this photo went out, you working at Walmart, one of your coworkers posted. this. Right. There was so much love that poured in for you and people were so happy to see you doing well. Did you see the reaction of that? No, I didn't, I didn't really, I didn't see it when it happened. I didn't even, these kids that, I call them kids, kids that I've known working indies on the Gulf Coast and some other places, they started messaging me and calling me about it, you know? Have you seen the internet? I said, I don't really, you know, do that. And then I found out from them and then the guy who posted it, Wade, he handed me a piece of paper with, I think, your contact, and Steve, is I care of I reference him?

Yeah, sure. He said, through this thing, I guess they contacted him maybe or whatever, you know, because I don't think you knew how to get in touch with me. And then someone was saying, man, he's been saying like he wanted to interview for a while, and he wondered what happened to you. Like, where is he at? Is he lost, M.I.A. or something, you know, hiding right, right? Did you had referenced me before or whatnot?

I said, really, that's awesome, you know. So tell me about this day. So you're working at Walmart now. Yeah. And one of your coworkers snaps this photo with you. Yeah, he's actually, he's on the renovation team that travels around, but he was there for a couple months. He's coming back.

He's from Ohio, right? And people thought that you were living and working in Ohio. Yeah. Because he was in Ohio or from Ohio. Yeah, exactly. But he's all over, man. And you're in New Orleans. Right, right.

We're in New Orleans as we record this right now. The big easy. Heidenreichs town. No. I'm part of one of the many people from here. But yeah, I saw he was from Ohio and asked him if he knew about Ohio Valley wrestling. And he says, yeah. And he was a wrestling fan.

And I told him some of the stuff I did. And he left that night. And I think he said, he didn't really believe me, you know, that I was saying I did all this stuff. But he looked it up. And then he was like, dude, this dude's like, Heidenreich, you know. I remember you. or whatever. And then he got action, he said, I ordered an action figure. Are you going to sign it from me? I was like, no. And I was like, yeah, of course I will, dude. That's cool. And he's like,

why don't you tell me? I'm like, well, I don't, you know, unless wrestling comes up, you don't know. And then a bunch of his buddies found out, they were like, dude, he was like, they were telling him, why don't you tell us that he was the wrestler, man? They ordered action figures too, you know? And when my coworkers found out, one of the guys found out at Walmart Larry, he went and showed everybody. You know who this guy is? And they look, showing all these old black things like, man, you're like a legend, man. I was like, I guess so, you know. And they're always messing with me.

That's how that's how superstar wrestle, you know. But they're cool. A lot of people like wrestling, man. Everybody loves wrestling. A lot of these ladies are been working at Walmart 35 years, you know. They like, they watched old school midstiles wrestling, you know. And their sons watch me, you know, who are from the early 2000s. But I sign on pictures, you know, and stuff.

And it's just cool. What are you doing to do in? Walmart. What's your job? I put out freight at night. Okay. So you work like the overnight shift? Yeah, yeah. Mr. My black lady boss, Ms. Lynette, she goes, Mr. John busting pallets. You know, I mean, I get them out, you know? Because a lot of people, they just, they're on their phone all night long. And I mean, I just, if I'm there, I'm going to try to work, you know. But yeah, I think they like me because I can pick up heavy stuff and all. And I don't, as they say, if we ask you to do something, Mr. John, it's like, Mr. John, I'm like, I feel old, you know,

But I guess I'm getting old. It's respectful, but it's weird. I've never been calling Mr. John anywhere except Walmart, you know. Everyone, that's Mr. John. But if we actually do something, it gets done, you know, I'm like, well, that's the way it is, man. Right? That's the way I was raised. Yeah, you got that work ethic.

Yeah, I mean, I think Terry Cruz said that before he made it, you know, with the movies, he might have been a gladiator, but he was saying any job he had, if he was cleaning up or bouncing, he tried to do it like he was. getting paid a million dollars or something. It was some references, do a good job. I mean, right? I mean, what was it? I like movies.

The John Wick movie, the guy says, how you do anything is how you do everything. I love that quote. Right? I was blown away by that. I write it down, you know, quotes like that. Because it's awesome stuff, man. I mean, it's life.

Were you surprised by the outpouring of love and support? Yeah, people were like, I thought, well, they bashed me because I'm at a Walmart now. They said, no, dude, it's like, cool. And, I mean, people that, I think Schnitsky said some good stuff because he's a cool dude. I love him. Oh, yeah, he's good. He put me over.

He's like, man, I'm glad John's all right. We were wondering what happened to him, you know? Because, you know, a lot of guys go back or they're more involved in Internet and then doing indies. And I'm not Internet savvy or whatever. Well, you just got a Twitter account. Yeah, but that'll help you big time these days, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, I'm definitely a follow up on that.

I think you've just got a Twitter account. You're, I think Steve Stasiak, who's bookpror Wrestlers.com. He's helping you also set up an Instagram account. When COVID hit, I quit traveling, you know, because it was no, I mean, it was hard, right? And after that, I never really picked back up on it until now, which I'm glad I'm doing it because it's part of my history and I like it. And it's a good way to earn money. And I put all the work in, you know?

Yeah. It's a senior's tour. I sort of. Stop it. How old are you? I'm about to be 57. At the seniors, too. What are you talking about?

I feel like, yeah. Well, look at Randy Orton. He's still there, dude. That's amazing to me. Yeah. He's been there a long time, and he's a tremendous worker. I mean, he's still in great shape. He's at OVW with me.

But he worked the Undertaker after I did, and the stuff he was doing in the matches, I was like, dude, I could have, I would have broken my legs the stuff he could do, you know? I mean, he's impressive. He's a big dude. Everybody says he's so smooth. Yeah, he's awesome, man. I mean, I traveled with him and Ray some. There were a trip.

Why did you stop doing wrestling appearances? You weren't doing conventions here and there. Yeah, after COVID, I just didn't pick back up with it. I had some bad experiences, too, where things didn't work out. Shady promoters in wrestling? You don't say. Believe it or not, yeah. Maybe I was the only guy to ever meet him.

Yeah, maybe. But I had some bad deals. And I'm not the greatest when it comes to, like, talking, on the phone and like being organized with papers. I mean, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like an offensive lineman. It's like, oh, you know, you're a grunt. You know, I do the work. You know, I go out there.

If you tell me what to do, I'll go do it. But as far as being organized and polished with, that's a good thing to be at, diplomacy and everything. If you were watching Backlash, you might have seen a face that you recognize sitting behind Michael Cole and Wade Barrett. Not only did I have those awesome seats, I also got to. an impromptu interview with the Ms and Kit Wilson. Check it out on my Instagram.

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That was easy. Fans were excited to hear that you're number one doing well. Number two that you're back in the scene. You actually have some appearances coming up. I wrote them down here. ALW, Atomic Legacy Wrestling, Lakeland, Florida, September 12th. And then you've got the big event in New York, which is a huge convention, November 14th. And there's going to be some more dates that are out of all.

But, man, people are excited to have a chance to see you, shake your hand, get a photo, get your autograph. But there's so many fans, you know. I think the last deal I did where I was actually signing things was around the same time I did the interview with that guy at Russell Khan or when WrestleMania was in Orlando. WrestleMania 33. Right. That's when it's Hannibal, correct? Yes, you did the interview with Hannibal. That's your last interview.

That kid, he was, that kid, I say the kid, he was doing dark matches back in the day, you know? I remember him. I think he, I worked him some maybe because me and Adam were. We get the guys to do darks. We're on darks, but the guys that were the guys that weren't under contract. Yeah, yeah. They'd have to take that. Try out matches.

They'd have to take that doomsday device, man. That's a scary finish, bro. When I flip him off the top of his shoulders, man, it's like, Vince was like, man, that guy almost broke his neck. I'm like, well, you didn't, you got scared, you know. But anyway, yeah, I did that interview with him, and that's the last appearance thing I did. So it's been a while.

How do you feel about getting back into this world? Like this, football, but certainly wrestling is what made you famous, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, for sure. How do you feel about getting back into it? Well, I mean, with the right people, it's going to be awesome. I feel positive. I'll have a, I need assistance with that, you know? And not everybody, like I say, is on the level, you know?

But you guys, you and Steve, I mean, you're a professional, you know, you're like top guys. So I feel good, man. That's going to be awesome. I'm excited because it was like a part of me was gone and it was like dead and dormant. And it's always going to be a party, you know, wrestling. I mean, I loved it. It was my second love. Football is my first love, you know.

But I transferred into wrestling due to a lot of guys influencing. But I think it'll be good. and it'll be something positive, you know? Did you feel like you were okay with letting wrestling go? You know, if your last appearance was 10 years ago. Right. Were you okay with just letting that part of your life go? Yes and no, you know?

Maybe, I mean, I wanted to still do it, but it's like do it the right way, you know? And I think this happened like, like we say organically, right? Just that picture and then the whole chain of events from there and then now with appearances is somebody who does it. all the time like Steve, Steve, Steve, that man, I feel like I'm in good hands, you know? Yeah. And that's a good feeling, you know?

And I know the fans are tremendous, man. I mean, the fans everywhere were tremendous. I mean, Indies, WWE, I mean, that's what blew me away because, I mean, football fans are different, you know? It's not the same thing. And like, I wasn't, like I was a free agent that played all over, you know, a journeyman. W&B, I mean, I was a big deal working the Undertaker, man.

like I had guys telling me who'd been there, man, that's, that's, you don't get much bigger than that, you know, and I was a great, I mean, I can't, I still can't believe it, you know, working him and all the stuff we did, man, I mean, it was amazing, bro. How did you find pro wrestling after your football career ended? Let's see, I told you I met Buff Bagwell when I was playing the CFL in Shreveport. And he had, we hung out one night and he was telling me. You just randomly met him? We had a bar in Shreveport.

I think that they, they were. They were, they were, they had done a show there. That's been, that was in a, when was that, when it was hot in the 90s. So like WC, he was in WCWCW. Yeah, yeah, that was, I was, I was in Freeport with the CFL in 94, 95. So it was those years. So that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, like, big time, right? Yeah.

That was, that was the money, that's when they were battling. And it's like, every show was sold out I heard back then, you know, with WWF and WCW. I met him. hung out with him and he was telling me you're a wild dude but i had every football team i played at people were like you're a nut you need to be in pro wrestling because i'd be getting in fights and stuff and get kicked out of games you know billy joe tolliver i used to call me sarge because he came in the cfl after he left the falcons he was our quarterback and he used to tell me that uh you're a nut you need to be in pro wrestling man where do you think that came from uh well i grew up in

karate, so I think I had a fighting, my dad raised me to have a fighting spirit. And then, I guess something about, I was, one coach said, you're a little punchy, you know, when I was at the Falcons. I'm like, what does that mean? Like, you're like nuts, you know. I was like, because I think I was, I was so enthusiastic, it borderline and, and I was aggressive, you know, but sometimes it would be, it would be outside of lines, like fighting and stuff. But I don't know. It was like I'm trying to prove myself and earn my ranks, you know, but it wasn't always good, but it kind of got me a reputation, you know. A lot of guys have been, that's a crazy white boy hiding right, man. He's nuts, you know. I was like, I'm always, I'm good crazy, though,

I'm not bad crazy, you know. So where did you start training? I went to, uh, I saw a, a thing. It was a documentary about UPW. Uh, and I'm pretty sure. scene was on it. He was a prototype back then. Yeah. He was more jacked up then than he was with W.A.B. He's like a cyborg, bro. He had that haircut, and he was jacked, bro. I think I saw him on the documentary. And then I went and traveled out there from New Orleans. I had a buddy who was an attorney who said he was trying to help me make it in NFL and football. And when I didn't do that, he goes, man, if you want to go to that school, I told him about we'll fly there. I'll pay for us to go and we set up a deal to go on one day. I can't remember maybe Saturday when they had a try

with Rick Bassman and UPW and we flew out there and I watched him train. I watched Sina in the ring. I was like that dude's a bad ass man. I mean, he looked like, he's like chiseled, you know. And they had a bunch of people there. Other people that were developmental that ended up becoming big stars, you know. So I worked out that one day and UPW said, and if you want to come out of Come on, you know. So I did. I went back home and, like I said, I got a, I think I had $1,500. I loaded up my Sousa Rodeo and left.

And my dad was like, you're going to. You moved to California. Yeah, yeah, I went to L.A. Yeah. I mean, I set up something with Rick and the guy, Big Swag, who was an announcer for UPW. He was an actor also, a big guy to stay with him at the beginning, you know. And I just found, I got a hotel in that, I call it a hotel, motel. But where I lived at efficiency in Studio City, I got a place there, the Gilligan's Island place.

And I started bouncing because I didn't have a deal, you know, I didn't have a developmental. So I was bouncing four or five nights, maybe six nights going to train in Huntington Beach, which is south of L.A. And it was tough, man. I thought it was going to be easier than football. It was way harder because everything you do in there is so unnatural. Sure. Even, I mean, they learned how to take a bump, fall in my back, they had to put somebody behind me and push me over them

because it was so unnatural to get knocked on your backside. Yeah. In any sport, if you're getting that done, that's not good. Yeah. Wrestling's not natural, doing flips and all that stuff, man. It's unnatural, especially the bigger you are, you know. And, I mean, I got hurt so many different ways because, you know, it's unnatural, man. I think you got signed to OVW pretty quick.

Like, I think you only had five matches before getting signed to you. I got a developmental pretty quick, bro. Who noticed you? Bruce Pritchard was coming in at the time, checking out talent. He came in periodically, you know. And on the documentary, they showed that, you know. They put some of that on there. But he came in and said, you know, I got leaner and stuff.

And he said, man, you're looking like you're improving a lot. He goes, would a developmental help you? I'm like, well, hell yeah. It'd be like 500 bucks a week. I wouldn't have to work, you know, every night. I think that's what I started at. And he said, well, I'm going to go back. We're thinking about signing you.

So that's awesome, bro. So then you moved to Louisville. Well, I was in, yeah, I think I was there for a little while, but not long. They put you there, you know. And maybe when I went to Louisville, I think you may, you go from 500 to 750, I think, you know. I think they called you 6'7 and 320 pounds. Yeah, yeah. What were your actual numbers?

I'm about 6'6, and I mean, my weight in wrestling was 250, 260, you know. You look a lot bigger when you're leaner, you know? Yeah. I mean, if you're 300 pounds and not lean, and you don't look as impressive, but in football, you don't need to look. You need to be able to just move people, you know? You had very early matches with people like John Cena.

You had early matches with people like Randy Orden. Yeah, Orton, yeah. Talk to me about working with those guys. Well, I mean, me and Randy, we were actually practicing one day. and I went to give him a sunset flip or he was given one where I think that's it and I've lost my balance and fell on him and landed like on his face and neck and I thought I heard him man I was like I'm done I'm they're gonna that's like Randy Orton you know he's his three generations or whatever third generation I was tripping out man because I was thinking I suck man when I went to Louisville the um the California the California the California caliber of wrestlers was so, I mean, I hadn't been wrestling that long, and I thought I kind of knew a little bit, but I didn't know anything compared to those guys. So I felt really like green or a rookie. And I feel like if I hurt Randy Orton, that's not going to be like the best. I thought I might have hurt his neck, you know. He's trying to be fine. But the ambulance, they call it an ambulance, bro. Because I thought I landed on his face in his neck. And I was thinking, oh my God, if I heard him, I'm like, I'll think I'm just going to quit. Because, I mean, they might kill me, you know, for, and I was new. And I was new. you know yeah but uh i mean uh like i said i had rob convoy nick dinsmore trained me uh and then we had a lot of legends come into like the boss man came in there and uh he was super nice he was good uh

when did they feel like you were ready to get called up and make your debut on the main roster um well i supposed to start doing darts and when i hurt my shoulder i told you i separated my shoulder and then I got I took a while to heal surgeries and I got released and I went to Japan. Did that happen in a match? It was in a practice man

I told you if I was taking monkey flips Sean O'Hare is giving me a monkey I never I never took a monkey flip but it practiced you supposed to learn stuff out yeah and I mean they just said line up and I mean I ended up pairing up with him

I never taken one I mean I watched it be done but it's a little different taking it and he'd never given one. And we're both, that's a, I'll, Sean, here's a beast. Yeah, it's two big guys. The monkey flip is, I don't know if I remember ever seeing a lot of big guys give him, you know.

Yeah, it's more of a cruiser way move, I guess. But, you know, he runs up and he puts his feet here, and he's cradling your head, and you're supposed to take a bump, a flip over him. I see it, flip over him, but he's supposed to help. We're working together, we become like a unit. And I don't think he pulled, and I just jumped, and I tried to turn. Because I knew I wasn't going to make it head first, so I would have hit him in the head and maybe broken our heads.

So I tried to roll with this shoulder, like, and when I did, I hit my shoulder. I looked at it, it was hurt, it was separated. And so you got released after that injury? Well, I mean, yeah, I told you, I went to the Saints doctor to have checked and fixed because I felt like I trusted them more than the guy in Louisville. And it took an extra sense. surgery to heal for whatever reason. And so it was more time I was out, you know.

And when I got, I think I got cleared, they said they released me, you know. When did they end up bringing you back? So you go to Japan? I went to zero one. That's for me and Nathan were tagging. Nathan Jones. Yeah, we were the ultimate army, you know. And that was a trip, man.

That's a big dude. He used to throw me around in the ring, bro. him and Brock Lesnar, when I took moves from them, I felt like a small person. I didn't feel big because they're so strong, man. Yeah. I mean, Brock Leser gave me a belly back suplex. And when you picked me up, it was like being on a roller coaster, you go click, click, click, click, click, click. And I was at the top, I was like, dude, is he going to kill me?

Because I was like, he was like being, he picked me up like no one never picked me up, you know? Like he just held me there. I was like, oh my God. And he put me out and it was like perfect, you know. So he picked you up like you weighed nothing. Yeah, exactly, which impressed me. I mean, he's an impressive guy no matter what. But yeah, that was a trip, you know.

How'd you end up getting re-signed with WWA or with developmental? Yeah, well, me and Nathan started doing well in Japan. And I think JR contacted me. He asked me, what do you, what is your deal with Japan? You have a contractor or whatnot? I said, well, we're just doing tours. Rick was booking us and he says, well, don't sign anything, you know. Because we won the NWA international tag belts at the beginning of the tour,

and then you drop them at the end, you know. But I guess it put us on the map. We were doing good. We wrestled against Hashimoto and Ogawa, who were big time guys. So Ogaawa was a silver medal judo winner. And then Hashimoto was a big time star. in Japan. So we were wrestling against them.

Otani and Tanaka, we wrestled against him. Tanaka's from ECW. Yeah, he's a tough dude. Nathan Jones threw him on his head. And he goes, that's okay. I bump him on my head. Like, oh, my God, dude, we thought you broke your neck. Nathan was crazy, strong, bro.

He grabbed him by his neck, and it was one corner of the ring, and he just threw him, and he back bumping it through him, and he threw him all the way across the ring. and it landed on his head, I said, man, he might be dead, but that dude is, like, tough as nails because he had all those matches with Mike Austin. Remember in ECW? I mean, literally, I would have killed anybody else, you know?

What was the idea for your gimmick when you went to WWA? Or the Smackdown one or the Raw? I guess your original gimmick. Did I drink some of that water? You can have whatever you want to do. I originally started on Raw, which is the little Johnny thing, but it didn't last all that long.

I think I hurt my leg, but sometimes they started an angler, and it doesn't really go. Yes, you did this angle on Raw. It doesn't really go anywhere. Yeah, I got, I'm, we started good, you know, but it was kind of fizzing out, then I hurt my leg.

I had a hematoma, man, I bruised my leg. I thought I broke my leg, but I couldn't walk, so I had to be awful a bit. I thought I was afraid of it was going to get released again, but I went back to, Louisville and started training for a little bit. And I got, I got well. And then that's when they came, that's when I went to SmackDown.

When you debuted on Smackdown and it's Paul Heyman introducing you, that was a huge endorsement. Yeah, man, that was huge. Yeah, he's managed world champions, you know. Yeah, you're an early Paul Heyman guy. Right. I mean, he's, I mean, he's tremendous, bro. I mean, in the wrestling business, you know, I mean, that's something like I'm, That's a genius mind.

I look like a Tesla, you know, in wrestling, you know. He's a great guy. So that was huge, man. And in that segment, to Josh Matthews is interviewing you in the ring. Right, right. You lay out Josh Matthews with one of the coolest looking shoulder breakers I've ever seen. Yeah, he said, are you all hype? That's what he said, hype.

I'm like, hype, hype. That's funny. Hype. I'm hide and right. That was like the trigger word, man. Right. What's their safe word? Not hype.

Night hype. Then you give him, I don't even know what you would call it. You bounce him off the ropes. And I'm slinging him around like a dish rag, right? Yes. Yeah. And then back onto your knees. Yeah, I was saying, hype, hype or something.

And he was literally like limp, man. It looked like he might have been like unconscious, right? Well, you bounce him off like your knees. Yeah. And he sold that so well. Yeah, it was a great deal, man. Because it made me like a, like, I think Taz was saying, who's like a six foot seven, about 300 pound Rottweiler.

Yeah. Right. They were tremendous both Taz and Michael Cole, man. But yeah, that was the start of it, right? Well, they booked you like this monster that's also unstable. Because it's not long after that that you start coming out of a strayjack. Yeah, yeah, because that was one of his, Teddy Long, with all the segments with my behavior being out of bounds and criminal, you know. I think that's the only way we'll let him, you know, go to the ring. And Paul's like, I don't want you to wear this. You'll be defenseless, man. You can't go out there.

I'm like, I'll wear it, I'll wear it. You know, and I put it on it like, yeah, this feels like home, you know. That was weird. But I think I just come up with that, you know. Those were good deals, all the backstage stuff with Paul. And that stuff with Teddy was great too, you know. Yeah, how'd you like working with Teddy Long? I love it, man.

I mean, he's like a dad, you know, I told you. We traveled some. And he's tremendous. I mean, that guy's got a history, man, you know? He's been around. And he's just super nice. I did stuff with him in the Indies. Because he lives in Atlanta.

He came down to Alabama with the promotion. And I got to do stuff after, you know. But, I mean, that guy's, he's been around, man. He managed the Undertaker, me and Mark Callaway. Way back. I seen photos of them back in the day. It's full circle. Then it goes to one-on-one with the Undertaker.

Yeah, that's a trip, you know? I mean, Teddy Long is tremendous, man. Yeah, what a legend. He was great. I mean, all the stuff, when we were doing with all my behavior and all the bad stuff, it was good because he was putting it over. You know, your boy hiding right here. You know, we're going to shut him down.

And you're going to go, too. Because if we get sued, if I'm going, y'all going down, too, you know, it's funny, right? He's like, this is out of control, you know? How do you go from being this monster heel to then reading poetry? Yeah, that's crazy, huh? I mean, some people said, I mean, I guess when you're getting over, we're getting popular as a heel, a lot of times they want to turn you. Because you're already getting the cheers, even though you're supposed to be a heel.

I mean, I think with TV and the way things are now with WWE, I think things are, Back in the day, they may have taken a year or two to do that. Let you, you know, run every situation and different guys with heels. But, yeah, they turned me. I mean, you think they turned you too fast? Well, man, a lot of guys, older guys said that. Because I mean, I don't know. I haven't been, I wasn't in the business that long.

I watched wrestling, but that doesn't, that's not like being in it, you know, and just say, well, this was a writer thing. Some people said they should, it would have been good to work more people, you know, more guys, you know, work more guys and see. But, I mean, it was good. You know, the friends thing was, I liked the little kids. The little kids liked it. I mean, the march, like the march thing.

Vince loved the march, you know, and all the little kids were doing it. I think they may have been, may have had a t-shirt or were going to make one with the arm, you know, or something maybe. I can't remember. Well, your theme song was so catchy. Yeah. And then when you started adding the march on it to it. Man, that was tremendous. I'm pretty sure Paul Heyman.

went and changed my original music, I think he said, we're getting rid of this, we're going to do something. So I owe him a big thank you or shout out because he went and made that happen. That's his voice, right? Yeah, yeah, it's mine and his.

But I mean, I think... He went... He went... He went... I told you Vince Love, Mike. He said, I love your name. So maybe with that, he could go in there and do that

and say, we've got to get some better music, you know? And I think anything repetition, that's just going to get in people's head, you know? Because, I mean, my name is a long name, and a lot of people never could pronounce it, but when it's going hide and right, I mean, it's like, it makes it real simple, you know?

What was the idea behind the march? That was just goofing around. I think I was thinking, like, what is it, the dwarfs? Hi-ho, hi-ho, it's off the work I go, but I was thinking, wrestle, you know? Yeah. Because I was always to do goofy stuff, man. I mean, that's why I got nicknamed Looney Tunes

by The Undertaker. in JBL, which I thought was cool. You know, I like Looney Tunes. Because I'd say crazy stuff. Like, you know, Michael, Michael Cole and Taz would be like, he's calling on, he's doing his own color commentary in the match. He's calling his own moves or stuff. It'd be talking to himself, you know.

I forget what they do, but I'd be saying something. And they would, like, they'd play with it. Didn't Vince get mad when you didn't do the march one time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think when I started with Animal, you know, I did, I was like, well, I don't want do that with Legion of Doom, you know, that's disrespectful. And he's like, I came back and he's like, what's up? I said, where's the march? He goes, you got to do that every time you go to the ring, because that's over, you know, because I was still new at everything, you know. I didn't

know, but it was getting popular. I mean, it was cool. Because I mean, I call it the March of Madness, you know, or something, you know, something to put a term to it. So how does poetry become the gimmick for Hydenreich. All right, poetry. I've been writing since in college. I had an English teacher that let me write a story about Jim Morrison's poetry, and I got a high grade with it. And that, like, opened my door to, hey, I didn't think I was good at writing, but I started writing then. I've been writing poems and, like, songs and other stuff. I don't know what it is, but I have, like, notebooks full of crazy stuff. And I think I'm pretty sure I was on a plane flying with Paul was sitting behind me.

I was writing a poem. Yeah, Paul Hammond. I think I wrote a poem. I don't know if I wrote it to him or something. I just wrote it. I'm going to slip this back here, like your note, you know, like in school or something. And he read it. He's like, you write poetry?

I said, yeah, man. You know, all the time. He's like, hmm, I think, I've seen the wheels turn in his head. And I'm pretty, like I said, he, I owe him a lot, you know, but I'm pretty sure he said, hey, man, this guy writes poems, you know, something off the wall and bizarre. and then they liked them, you know. I mean, when I write them, normally I'd ask,

Vince was, like, involved with me a lot. He's like, I'm like, do you want to hear it? Because I know it's going to be good. I'm like, man, that's cool, man. That made me feel good. Do you still remember any of those poems today? Give us one. No, man.

I don't want to do the one from Chicago. That's terrible. The one from the, I had a great one when I worked the Undertaker. Okay. And I have them written down. I couldn't find him last night. But I know it's on one of the segments. The thing, with the story about me and him, the poem is killer, man.

I can't recite it now. And I was trying to find stuff last night. And like I said, I had so many pieces of paper and stuff with that poem about The Undertaker. But it was, you know, I referenced, I cost him the championship belts twice, you know, or something, meaning something for Heidenreich. And I said, Undertakers never met anyone so twisted as me who's at home with insanity or something. And I fear, maybe I referenced, I fear no man living or dead, you know. The only thing I fear is caskets. I said, The Undertaker, I'm not afraid of you.

I'm not afraid of the Undertaker. And I referenced, most people would hear the Undertaker's bell toll and they were like in fear. and like that was like a like a Pavlov style. You know, I hear that. I know it's time to go to war with him and whatnot. I can't remember the poem, but it was a good poem. I remember you being on top of the Smackdown fist. Yeah, that was crazy.

And you're reciting poetry on the Smackdown Fist, and Paul Heyman's yelling, you get down from there. Some people are telling me jump. And I'm like, golly, man. Jump. That's like you guys cared about me, man. That was, I'm, this is a story. I just remember.

They used to call me scared of heights. instead of high, didn't right, scared of heights. Because I was terrified to get up on that thing, number one, because that's like 60 feet. That's high. And we practiced it, and that lift raises me up. And I got a harness, you know, right? Because I'm like, I'm not doing it.

But when we practiced it, the guy who does all the stunt stuff, he went up there with me. I think he was a guy who worked with W.C. He was a real stunt guy for movies. But he went up there with me. And it was like, when it pulled to that big fist, it was like right on it. There was no gap, you know? When we went live, when we lifted the thing up, it was like six inches. I'm like, six inches seemed like 20 feet to me.

I was like, dude, man, it's not all over against the thing. He goes, man, you got to go, man. I said, I'm like scared, man. He like, shoved me, man. Get out there. But I had a harness, but I was like trying out that I scared on that fist. It's a big fist, but still, it's 60 feet. And if you don't like heights, because I used to get scared

to having to do the Legion of Doom Finish to stand up on top of the turnbuckle. That's way up there. So I'd get on it and I'd go right away before I fell. But anyway, somebody found out I had a fear of heights. And it was like, you're not hiding right? You're scared of heights. Like the camera dudes would be saying, I'm like, shut up, man. Scared up, heights.

Scared out, heights. I'm like, shut the eff up, you know, man. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get. Like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system, and it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group.

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Survivor Series is my favorite match of my whole career with him, without the casket. Like I said, that was the night. Everybody said a lot of great stuff. I didn't mean to cut you off, but I just thought about that. Well, how did you even get put into this storyline with The Undertaker? He's one of the biggest stars. Yeah, yeah. What a rub.

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, Kurt, is it okay if I referenced other guys that run Smackdown? Of course. Kurt was super nice to me. And I think the world of him, because he's a beast. He's like, man, Kurt Angle, yeah. He's like, you don't get, I mean, that's about as high as you can go, you know, for starting out.

And he says, that's great. And you said, you know, he said, you know, He was doing a good job. He was a super nice guy, like really positive. So that was cool. I mean, we started the thing in when it was Undertaker and JBL. That was a hearse match. And it was in New York or Long Island or somewhere, you know.

But that's when I started the deal. When I interfered, I was waiting in the, it's a hearse, right? It carries the casket, right? Yes, yes. So whoever put one or the other in there would win. Well, I was waiting in there. and he came back, you know. And that seemed like forever, but it was exciting, but, I mean, nerve-wracking, you know.

Because, I mean, I hadn't wrestled for 20 years, bro, you know. I mean, and, yeah, I jump out there and interfere in that, you know, and that, and then I put him in there. I think I used chloroform or something that makes him pass out. Is it chloroform? Yeah. That's what it was supposed to be, what not. But I put him in there, and I knock on a thing, and I think Paul was driving.

And then I'm, the next thing you see is me down there in that big Bronco. Not to be confused of any other Broncos. But I drive down and crashed it into the thing. And it blows up and whatnot. And I'm all bloody and stuff. And Paul's like, we got to go, man. We got to get out of here. I'm sitting there like, act like, yeah, I kills him.

He's done. I, you know, I finished him off. And then we leave. And I think the next segment's, Teddy Long's saying, hey, man, you know what? he wasn't even in there. And Paul's like, what? He's like, yeah, I had to get the jaws of life, but he wasn't in there.

So, like, that was, we cost him the belt, you know. That was the start of it, right? Yeah, what was it like working with The Undertaker? That was insane, man. It was a, I would be so cotton mouth because his intro is so long, you know. I would always hide waters in places like outside of the ring and stuff. I get thrown out so I could have something to drink. Because, man, my mouth would,

dry, I think it was nerves, you know. But if your mouth dry and you can't, like, you can't breathe and stuff, you know. But it was crazy. Working in him was just tremendous. I mean, I can't even describe it. So talk to me about this match you have at The Undertaker at Survivor Series 2004. Right. How are you feeling going into this match? I mean, I think we had did some house shows, man. It's hard for me to remember. You did a lot of house shows. I did work him outside of the TV. you know. Yeah. Because the TV, they kind of built up with it,

and then it was a big match set. But, I mean, it was, I mean, the way The Undertaker works and he's so good, it's basically, he told me, he said, hey, kid, when you're upside down, it's over. Is that cool? I was like, yeah. And then JBL's like, is he coming to ask you a bunch of times,

what we're going to do? He said, no. He goes, see, most of them, he's like, these guys just keep coming up to you because they're so nervous. They want to them to do. What are we going to do? What are we going to do?

I was like, well, I've worked with him some before. He said, just talk and walk, you know. I mean, it's okay with break Cape Fave. I mean, he was so good. I mean, you're in his hands. If you can't work with him, I said something's wrong, you know. And, I mean, he made you look awesome, and I knew what I was going to do. It was still nerve-wracking.

But that's my favorite match, you know, ever. When you got to the back after that match, what was the reception? It was standing ovation, bro. It sounds hard. still mind-boggling to think. See Vincent Man and everybody in Guerrilla. When you're talking about legends, you know, I can't remember who,

it was some of the agents or old-time wrestlers that train you. But, man, that was a trip, you know. And then I had Booker T. Tell me after, when we were leaving, kid, you stole the show tonight, you know? I was like, damn, that's awesome. And, I mean, I had so many people saying,

man, you worked the Undertaker, and it was a hell of a match, you know. I mean, I had, I mean, the refs and everything, The Hebner's and all those guys were just, I don't know. I mean, when I went there as a new guy, I kept my mouth shut and I was like happy to be there. Anything I was doing, I was like, man, this is cool.

Well, then not long after that, you had the honor of having a casket match with the Undertaker at Royal Rumble. Yeah, it was a trip. Yeah, how was that? That was a trip, man. And then we had, you know, Snitchki interfered, which was cool, you know. We had done two house shows, previous. to that in Alaska and Hawaii, where we worked them.

We actually worked the whole match, you know, which is cool. And that may have been to lead to Mania. I'm not sure, but it didn't, but I was hoping it would, you know. Yeah, there was a rumor that it was going to be Hydenreich and Snitsky versus Kane and the Undertaker of WrestleMania 21. Since he was doing this stuff on Raw, that's what the baby stuff, right? Right? Yeah.

And I mean, uh... And Lita, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's bizarre and I'm bizarre too. That's like the Bazaar brothers, right? That would have been a good tag. Yeah, that would have been fun. It would have been awesome, man. Yeah, why didn't that end up happening?

I don't know. Like, some of the things, it's funny, you'll ask me to inquire about something. You'll have more info than I actually had. That's funny. No, I mean, like the things you've told me, like, I really don't know, man. I could speculate, but I mean, that's not fair

because I'm just, I'm like grabbing straws, man. I don't, no one comes and tells you, It's not like in football, you have a playbook and you have a game plan. You know, you're an offensive lineman. You know you got your blocks. And in the rest, it's a lot more like it's on the fly. I mean, sometimes I heard the match will be changed while they're going out there. They'll have an idea.

And, you know, I mean, it's just. Speaking of Snitsky, you have this backstage segment with him where you guys are about an inch away from each other's face. And we're breathing heavy. Breathing, very heavy. If you have your eyes closed, you might think it's like something off of some other website. You know what I'm saying? So what's the idea behind this segment? Man, I mean, I'm trying to think if, well, the lines are his because he's doing the thing with, I think he maybe cost the child of Lita.

Yes. So he says to you. He likes my poems, right? I like your poems. And then you say to him, I like what you do to babies. Yeah, which is, I don't know, that's disturbing. even to this day, you know? But, and then I think I'll tell him, I tell him I hate caskets, you know, whatever.

And he says, I know, John, I know. But he said something comforting. He goes, oh, yeah, but I really hate caskets. He says, I know, John, it's going to be okay. He's like telling me I'm going to help you. You know, I can't think of the exact verbiage, but he's comforting me. But when they're putting this together, what are they telling you? Are they telling you to be this close to each other?

and to breathe that heavy? No, I don't think they told us that. I don't think we just did that. I don't know. We thought it felt right in some different world, like another dimension in time. The Twilight Zone. What do you think when you watch it back now? It's still funky, man.

It's weird. I'm like, bro, that's this is over the top, man. Something's wrong with that dude. Big show used to say, you got dropped on your head when you're a little baby too much, didn't you? You know, you're really nuts, you know? That's, I mean, that was, well, I guess I could say it. Paul told me that everybody up there didn't know when I was doing my gimmick. He said, man, they don't know if you're like really pretending or if you're really like nuts, you know.

He's like, it's like, it's kind of good because nobody knows what to really think of you, you know? It's what he told me. He says, people really think you might be effing nuts, you know, right? And that's good because it's believable, right? Yeah. I think it was part of me from the football and over. for aggressiveness. And I mean, and when I was in wrestling, I just amplified it, you know. I remember I was training in the ring before Paul was working with me, and the agents

were out there watching me. And I remember Paul telling one, he's like, come here, watch this. And I used to be real, I was like more violent before I was a taker because, the undertaker, because I was maybe like, I can't be that baby. But when I was in the ring that day working out, man, I was like, boom. I was like, I was like insane, you know, like Johnny Hs to be like, you can't cuss, man. Stop saying cuss words, you know? Because you can't, you can't do that, you know. But I was like super aggressive.

And I remember I saw Paul and I felt like he was telling somebody, watch this kid. He's like, I'm not trying to say I was great. But if I felt like, watch this fucking, you had intensity. Yeah, that's what I felt like. That's good because that's something I can bring to it that's different, you know. It's just like 31 flavors at Baskin-Robbins, you know, with wrestling, no. I mean, you want to be, you have to be certain things, but you want to be something different about you, you know? Yes, wrestling's a buffet.

Yeah, yeah. And it's characters, man. It's not Roman Greco wrestling like in the Olympics, you know. Yeah, because if every match was the same with similar, serious characters, it'd get bored real fast. Yeah, like watching friends every episode is the same episode, you know? I mean, right? I mean, you want, that's the characters and whatever you say, acting and whatnot. But, I mean, I just, like, what we do is so, it's so hard to explain and it's so hard

people to grasp how difficult it is to do pro wrestling. You're doing a live match that, like I did a movie in China. We shot 15 days, many, many hours a day for an eight-minute fight scene. on that, right? Or when we do a wrestling match, you're doing a live fight scene at a high level, like movie quality. One take, man. That's insane, dude.

In front of a live audience. Yeah, that's, that's, man, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot of pro athletes, tremendous great pro athletes that could never do wrestling. Yeah. I've heard the stories of guys trying out at UPW from the movies and stuff, guys, you know, that there were great movie stars, but they couldn't do wrestling to save their lives because that's so hard.

I don't know why I got on that, but it's just... Well, so much of it is committing to the character. Yeah. Right? It's you believing what you're doing. It's such an amazing thing to be, get involved with and do and actually do good at it, you know? Yeah.

It's like artwork, you know. It's like the canvas. I think somebody said it's an empty canvas, but you go out there and paint that art, you know? Yes. Is it a, you know, the Da Vinci or, you know, a bomb, you know, but, man, it's just, it's, it's an amazing thing, man. I do miss it. I wish I could still be wrestling. I mean, honestly, but I'm just all beat up, you know. Do you think you could

wrestle again? No, I don't think, I couldn't do a real match. I maybe could do running stuff or something or manage somebody. That'd be crazy. Hydenreich managing. He'd be mismanaged. How's your health now? I mean, um, I had some hard issues, you know. I had some, I have some heart issues, but my blood pressure is down and my weights down, and I'm not doing anything crazy like I used to do a long time ago. So considering all the sports I did my whole life, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm in good shape. I mean, they say I need to replace my left knee because I had reconstruct it, you know, and I have degenerative arthritis everywhere, you know, and like I told you the bone spurs in my spine, but I mean, I'm not going to, I don't think they remove it. I mean,

said don't wrestle anymore, you know. That was from car wrecks, football, wrestling. Because I was in sports when I was six years old, you know. Sure. I mean, and football is pretty violent. And wrestling is too. So, I mean, my health, I mean, I'm beat up, but I mean, I'm not overweight, you know. I would like to start getting in a regular training deal again, you know.

I was riding my bike around for transportation and travel, but it's too dangerous because I crashed twice and broke a bunch of stuff, and that's not cool. So I gave up two wheel anythings, you know. When was the last time you were in the gym? Man, probably when I was rehabbing my leg, when I broke my leg. What was that? That's November. It's probably been a year and a half.

Yeah. I mean, I have a ball at home. I do like stretching and sit-ups on and I have some bands and dumbbells. And I used to ride my bike to the levee on the lake, and I do workouts up there. You can do a workout without. weight equipment and still train. You can train with a towel if you have somebody to assist you. But I would do all kinds of different stuff,

some martial arts and stuff and stretching. But I need to get back into something routinely because it's good for you mentally. I was a fanatic my whole life training. If I didn't go to the gym, I'd be mad and angry, you know. My wife would be like, go to the gym. Come on, man, we can't deal with you, you know. It'll work out, you know.

Because it's a good thing, man. My father trained in karate his whole life. I grew up in a dojo and just doing the, something constructively with your body and your mind. Yeah. It's good for your mind and your body. I agree. You know, I mean, I got to tell you jack. I was like, dude, I don't know about that. Yeah, you are. Let's not go crazy here. You're good, man. I left a waiter too. Yeah, but that shows something when you take care yourself, man. It's not easy. And the older you get, it's harder. Discipline. But it also, it slows down the aging process. I mean, even though I did all these

sports that I'm all beat up, I know a lot of guys in my age that are, man, you know, they're a lot worse off. I'm lucky. 20 years later, how do you feel about this Michael Kohl segment? It'll always be disturbing, right? There's no doubt about it. I mean, it was brought to me, I don't remember particulars, but I do remember thinking, man, this is really, really off the wall. This is, I didn't train for, like, when you're training to do vignettes and practicing

in, in other, like, Louisville, you don't practice for a vignette like that. Would they call them vignette still? Yeah, maybe that's a backstage segment. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can't practice for that, you know. What's the pitch for this segment? Well, I mean, they said I was going to abduct him, right? You know, and bring him to the back and then put him in a room.

And then I think it was like you're going to act like you were like watching him and you're going one place with it. It's like you're going like it. And then you say, I'm going to give you a poem. But it sounds like I'm going to give him. him something other than a poem the way you understand what i'm watching you but it was like i don't know if it's innuendos and stuff when you say it i've been watching you i know what you want and i'm going to give it to you you understand i know what you mean yeah yeah the way that like and i didn't but i don't when i look back and all the things that have been said about all these years it's kind of made

me infamous you know i'm sure but more than famous you know but but i mean uh it's disturbing still and it's weird. Was it intended to look like? Oh, I'm sure. I mean. Like when you look at that segment. Yeah, like Pulp Fiction almost kind of thing. Sure. I mean, you can see a lot of that with WABs things that they've done, you know. I mean, I don't know if it's shock value or what it's going for, but it's definitely, there's no doubt it was going this way and I swirved it, as I say, right? Yeah, like I understand there's some innuend. there, but like it looks plain as day what this is supposed to be. Yeah, for sure, man. But I mean, when they bring it to you, I'm not going to say no, you know, like when they said, you're going to be

with Legion of Doom. I'm like, all right. Whatever they bring to you, that's where I was. If they told me to do a backstage thing or do this, unless it was like killing somebody or something where you know, you have to go to jail, I would do it. I'm like, I'm going to do it the best I can. What was the direction you were given for that? I mean, there's a lot of grunting, a lot of heavy Yeah, and I think a lot of that is my ad living, you know, just with, I mean, being hiding right, you know, somebody else might have done that totally different. I may not have done it all. I don't know. I just, I just did what I thought felt natural. That's, that's not good. It seems so natural. How did Michael Cole feel about that segment? I mean, I guess he was kind of real like, this is weird and joking around.

But he wasn't like, I didn't like he did like off put or not going to do it. I mean, I can tell he was, he was down for whatever. It's like we're working together, right? It's a scene and we're building a story. I mean, he was like whimpering, like, awesome, right? I mean, even though it was disturbing and weird and bizarre, I would have never come up without my own. I think it helped, like, not ink me or keep me.

that thing is like made me more rememberable, you know? Is that the word about saying like, I'm great? But that definitely people will never forget that. That is the number one thing people remember. Yeah, I mean, I remember here when they did interviews with other guys. I remember CM Punk saying whatever he said, it was like, that dude's like, that dude's like, he's wild there or whatever. Something he said it was good, but it was disturbing. But it's like, I remember, you know.

I mean, and I mean, I think, I think Faroo, they asked him about me, he's like, damn, you know. Like, because I think it was Smackdown anniversary thing or something, maybe. But, I mean, it's definitely made, it's definitely added something to my character being, if they always say bizarre characters, I get, I'll be up there with that crew, right? These guys. One of the disturbing, bizarre, other things, maybe not as nice. But I think it, it was good for me. It was good.

I think. After they say cut, right. What's the conversation you have with the people, Michael Cole and everybody else there? People I worked with, but they thought I thought it was good with all those things. Like, you know, not that I'm a great actor, but I always, it was positive, you know. Good job, man. And Vince loved all this stuff, you know. I mean, I know he liked it because it was disturbing and it was believable, I think, you know.

It's intense. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's something different. It's not a generic. thing that you're like, it's a match, this ever going to beat this guy. It wasn't like old time, it was like, okay, this is disturbing. But I think it was believable and it was weird. And it definitely, I mean, it definitely kept my name, you know, still, it's like you're on YouTube. It's like I'm still wrestling. It's like all that stuff still on there. So it's like, it keeps

you current in some way. Do you have any regrets about that segment? No. No. I don't, I did it. I think I did it the best is like the best, like, the best performance. I guess. I mean, I liked it. I liked it the way it ended. He was about to leave. I said, aren't you going to thank me? He's like, that's a poem by Haydnwright. The poem by Harden Right I thought was cool, you know. I ended up calling him disaster pieces after a while because I figured they're so bad instead of masterpieces. But yeah, I mean, I like the character, Heidenreich. I always, in my mind, I thought I would go back and I had a, I had a I had an idea to come back to, man.

I didn't even think about telling you this. I never went back, but I wanted to. I'm not going to lie, you know. I just probably just didn't know how to approach it to do it. But, I mean, if I would have went back, could I say the idea I always thought about? Yeah. I thought they would show, from my perspective, somebody watching Vince, like almost stalking him and whatnot, but never show it's me. And eventually I abduct him from the show, you know, and I take him, and I put him in a trunk.

and I build him to a building, and they still don't know. And they're like, he's lost, he's able, you know, he's missing. And then eventually I have him changed in a building with a light or something, a little light. And then I walk up and you see by the red gloves, you know, and then I read him a poem. You know, I was like, you know, and my thing is you cut me, you took my life from me, you know, you took my world, you know.

That was my world. And I was going to make him, I was going to abduct him to make him pay. and I guess try to make him re-sign me or something, but it was going to be kind of outside, not just getting back to wrestling, being like he robbed me of everything, because it was a big thing, you know. Yeah, why did you get released?

Some of it was my bad decisions at the time. I was showing up late, some shows. And then, I mean, I guess it was mostly me probably. being late. And yeah, I would say that. That was my bad, man. I was doing, I wasn't. I didn't realize how lucky I was

and the opportunity I had that at the time. I mean, my work, my whole life to make it at football. I really didn't make it to that level. And I get in wrestling and I get to that level. And here I am. And when I was doing the Legion of Doom, we had the belts. I think we maybe dropped them,

but still a top spot, bro. And I mean, I had a, I had an ear infection issue where I couldn't wrestle, but that wasn't the reason. They sent me home and released me a couple days after that. It was a built-up of probably some, me being stupid, and then them probably thinking, man, this guy's out of hand, maybe release him and he either gets himself straight and comes back, which I never really tried to go back. I should have.

I wanted to a bunch of times. People would tell me, you need to go to this house show or the show, and talk to somebody. And I think my pride was too big, it was stupid. When you talk about being stupid, doing stupid things, are you talking about drug use? Yeah, some drug use. And, yeah, basically that would cause me to be late, you know, sometimes. I would miss my flight,

but we'd have to buy another flight to get there, you know. But I was never messed up at the building where I screwed up in a match, but at home I may have stayed out the night. Like the night before I was going to travel, I'd go out and I'd stay out all night. and then I'd come home and I'd be like trying to get ready or I'd fall asleep or something, you know. Was this pain pills and drugs as well?

Yeah. Wow. A couple of different things. Yeah. But it seems like you're willing to take responsibility for that. Yeah, man. I mean, I was stupid, man. I had some issues with my relationship with my wife, but that's still no excuse.

But at the time, I used it, well, I'm medicating myself. I don't feel good. so I'm going to do this because I wouldn't have to feel so hurt, you know, but that was still stupid. I should want to talk to somebody or something. And, I mean, they even had the policy back then. I could have went and, like, say, hey, man, this is what's going on if I'd have, and they would help you, you know, which I didn't want to say.

Yeah, well, yeah, or something, yeah, and I didn't want to say it. They, they know when guys are doing, I mean, they're not stupid, man. They've seen it all at the WWE. I mean, we had guys that would be at the show. like the show's messed up bad. And we try to help them, but I'm like, it's obvious. It's 12 o'clock in the afternoon or 2 o'clock at TV and you fall out and your food. You know, it's just like, come on, you know.

And they're like, hey, man, you think anybody noticed? I'm like, no, nobody noticed you fell into your food. It's like, you're tired. Yeah, you're tired. How long have you been clean now? About 10 years, probably at least. Yeah. I mean, pain pills was a terrible addiction, man.

I wouldn't wish that on anybody, you know? And I started out taking them. I was hurt. I mean, I didn't want to get into taking them all the time. What was it? Was it Oxy? What was this like Laura Tab at first? I think it was Loritab or, yeah, Laura Tab or Laura set and then maybe Perkinset and then at the, well I mean, after I left it, I was taking Roxy's, you know. And then I got on Suboxone and tried to quit them, you know, and back and forth. but uh yeah but you're clean now yeah i mean i probably need them now but i don't want to take

him you know it's just like i don't want it's just that's a because you know you if you're after a surgery you might need them but i mean even after when i had my leg broken they may get me some in the hospital but i didn't take any when i went home because i didn't want them because it's like man i don't start taking them things again if i can get through it i'll make it yeah you know uh yeah it's a bad deal, man. Yeah. They have a lot of guys with the prescription thing is bad. But I think now they've gotten it reeled in with the way they prescribe stuff now. They don't prescribe stuff like you used to. You have to be like a cancer person to get, because everybody's giving out way too much stuff, you know. And I mean, that's, that's on the person taking it. But if I was a doctor,

I wouldn't be giving people. I would know, I would know the signs, right? You mentioned Legion of Doom. So how do you get lined up with Animal and you become a member of Legion of Doom? Right, right. Well, I remember that they came and told me about it. And then we started that progression of me doing the hair. And then I think the spikes of the face paint, I'm not sure how it went on, but it was like I was progressing with Animal, right? But I mean, my first paint job was the butterfly effect, which Animal came up with,

which I don't think they like too much, but the skull thing was actually given to me by, this is weird, Triple H gets me and asks me to come into the back with him. So I go into his locker room, and he sits there and puts that, it's bizarre. He's putting that skull on my face like real time. I'm like, man, that's weird.

Triple H is painting this on you? Yeah, it was his idea. Wow. And that was weird. Who knew he was an artist? Well, man, I mean, just like, that's Triple H. You know, he's like, that's the man, right? Yeah.

And I didn't know him that well. We'd spoken some. And at this point, he's just a wrestler. He's not booking or doing any sort of office job. Right. But he puts it on me and he tells me to look at it. And man, it's cool, you know, that skull face. But then we had to go ask the undertaker because he had those things on his tights at

the time or his pants. There was a skull type deal, you know. And he approved it. You know, he said, it's okay. I like it. And then I got that. I went with that, which I thought that paint job was way better, you know. But that was one of the, then I got the spikes, you know.

But that was, that was surreal because I, in college, we were LOD fans or marks, you know. I guess it's okay to say Mark. I don't mean anything bad by it. Yeah. But, I mean, I had photos of me and the guy I played college ball with at Mardi Gras, which is probably, it was Marty Gras of 1990 maybe. we made up our homemade LOD spikes and painted our faces,

and it was Mardi Gras Day, we went out dressed up like that. And I had pictures. So I bring one on my animal. Like, this is like, this is no bullshit, man. We were LOD. We wanted to be LOD, man. And like, I don't know how many years ago that was,

15 or 20 years. But now I'm in LOD, so that was huge. And you win the tag team championship. Yeah, yeah, man, that's just insane. I can't still believe, it's still hard to believe, you know, that was part of them. Because to me, that's one of the most recognizable tag teams ever, you know. Of course. Legendary.

Yeah. Hey there, I'm Paula Pan. I help people make the smartest money decisions possible. If you don't control your money, it controls you. Yeah, you're not in control of your finances. You have to look outside of yourself to live the life that you want. You're not in control. You're like, like, what is it that you actually want?

Money should follow the dreams and goals because sometimes we make the dream and gold the money and you've overworked yourself and you've exceeded what you've needed for the actual thing you want sometimes we forget like what's the actual thing you want afford anything follow and listen on your favorite platform square up you know what's going on man's and jir burto two-time world champion in our fault i loved it i really wanted to do that sit down from a fighter's perspective my gee what's going on what's going on my what now you got a chance to really draw in your audience to let them see who I've had to have a lot of internal talks to say, do I even want to carry on? But it's fight is, we know what time it is.

Like, I think the time is now. Square up. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Let's go. Red was your thing. Right. You had, all your gear was red. How did that become part of your gimmick?

That was all creative, you know, when instead of I was going to Smackdown, they told me, I think you told me at OVW, you're going there, you're starting a new deal, repackaged or reprocess whatever and they told me to get the boots they were red with the low they don't want them being high cut that's more like a shoot looking boot right yeah like a like a fighter yeah like the gloves were cool you know my pillows they got them because you could hit a guy and it wouldn't hurt them as bad right but yeah it was all red the red tights the red gloves and then the red boots i wore knee things you know i wore uh there was knee braces under them but it was covers with gel things.

I couldn't land on my knees without having some pads. Some guys, I guess, are tougher, but... And then I didn't wear elbow things, but... Yeah, the red thing was cool, man. It ended up being my color. Yeah, when people think about wrestlers that wear red gear... Yeah. It's you.

Yeah. I mean, it was... The way it all worked out, man, it was awesome, you know? I mean, I couldn't ask for anything better in that period of time of starting with wrestling and training and my experience, you know, and to be given that spot and have things go, I thought were awesome. Maybe it was my inability to realize how lucky I was to maybe make that longer, but I couldn't ask for more success and being in better spots, being put with people that were, you know, Leas and of Doom or working the Undertaker or Paul.

Yeah, think of the people you work to us. Paul Hame, I mean, all the people. Booker T as well. Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, just, and all the, all the different segments and different, or backstage segments and the character stuff, I got to do a lot of stuff out of the ring, which is good, because I think that was, I was a big part of me, you know, I wasn't just a big guy that could work, I was bizarre and I could do goofy stuff. What's the thing that you're most proud of from your WWE career?

Survivor Series Undertaker match. I think that's because, I mean, the things people said to me, the way I felt, it was like, I couldn't imagine the compliments that was given by guys. It blew me away, man. They were, I mean, and these are the guys that have been around a long time, you know. Fun fact, when you were training in the NFL. Yeah. You were with the Atlanta Falcons.

Yes. And you were in training camp with a guy at that time named Bill Goldberg. Yeah, you ever heard of him? I mean, I think he did a little something in the business, right? He's like God, man I mean, yeah, he was He was a great I mean, he was a tough, really good football player

He actually, I think He probably would have played longer And, I mean, he was successful But I think he had a lot of injuries, man, With his shoulders, you know But yeah, he was a defensive lineman And I was offensive linemen So you guys were pitted against each other

Yeah, we're not friends on the field Yeah, yeah I was like, man, I got to go against that damn That knucklehead, man Because he's going to bring it, you know what I'm saying? Yeah He was, I mean, like, When I was at, like, guys that have been around in the league for many years, at practice,

they had like one, two, you know, cool it, you know, because they had a spot, you know. But like guys that free agents and guys on the bubble trying to make a team, you wouldn't do that because you're trying to do anything and everything to get noticed, you know. And he was that way too. I mean, it wasn't no practice tempo. It was like full game, you know. But I respect him for that. He was a good football player.

He was tough. So after having a career in pro football. football because it was a lot of training camps with the NFL. Yeah, and every other goofy league. CFL? Yeah, every league that was working, going at the time, I played games. And I had four games in Atlanta in preseason. I had those games because Irv Eatman, it was a veteran.

They signed got injured, so I got all his reps. Mike Ken was the starter. He'd been like in the league 18 years. And then you got cut right before the season started? Right, yeah. I thought I thought it was going to make the team. Actually, the guy who was offensive line coach, Bob Palsick, went to the Saints. In the 98, he saw me in Houston's and the Orleans.

And I was still trying to get signed at the time. He goes, you should have made a team in Atlanta. He goes, we did you wrong. He goes, I'm going to get you signed with the Saints. I worked out for Jack Henry. He said, he wants to sign you, but the GM said, you're too old. I was like 28 or 29. Well, you know, not making it.

They could bring in a kid that was 24 and do that with. But, yeah, man. You ever signed a Haydnrike football jersey? No, I don't think I have, man. I have a feeling you probably will this year. I have my CFO jersey and my World League jersey. And my Saints jersey, I had somebody holding it in Texas. What number were you for the Saints?

65. What number were you for the Falcons? 74. I feel like someone could make a Saints jersey or a Falcons jersey. Yeah. But what other teams were you on in the NFL? Oh, the Redskins. What number were you for the Redskins?

I don't even remember, man. That was not a good experience. I got my butt kicked. That was a Super Bowl team. Yeah, that was a, that was a, not a come to Jesus moment, but it was like, hey, I think I'm bad. No, I'm not. It's like reality shake. But it was good.

I mean, I left there and went to every other team I went to. I was like, I'm going to make sure that, you know, I'm not going to get my ass handed to me, you know. Yeah. But, yeah. I feel like someone could make a Falcons jersey. Oh, yeah, yeah. Jersey, hiding right in the back? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's a good name. It's a good thing I'm a big guy, right? Because it's a small man, I don't fit on. No, I'm just joking. How was it going from a career in pro football to then a career in pro wrestling? Then you're doing the Indies and you're finding life after your WWE. But then at some point you have to get a quote unquote normal job. Yeah, it is.

How was that? Well, like I told you, I had a long business and detailing business in Mississippi. be, that's the first thing I did. Because I put out apps and I would probably put too much about wrestling and football and I'd be like these, like the girl I was... Like your resume would be like,

played for the Saints and the Falcons that was in WWA. We'll put less to that because if you did that, they'd be like, this guy's not going to come in and do a regular job. Yeah, why would he want this job? So I emphasize all the other jobs that had bouncing and whatnot

and my degree and whatnot. What's your degree in? Exercise physiology. Oh, great. Yeah, study. What school? Northeast Louisiana University, it's changed now, but there's a one-double-a school with Monroe. They went one-a.

But we won conference when I was there in international champions because one-d-a-a has the playoffs, you know. If you're a good player, they'll find you. They get fine guys at the N-A-I, you know. So you have to at some point enter the quote-unquote real world of, you know, an actual job. And I mean, like I ended up at Walmart. which is crazy because it's the Walmart with me and my dad used to shop, right? Oh, wow.

In Harahan, which is where my grandmother's house. So I have a lot of memories there, you know. Harahan is, it's right by the levee on the river, you know. And that Walmart's right by the levy, you know. Are you there when it's closed? Yeah. Well, man, I'm there from 10 to 7. It's open one hour in the evening and one hour.

Most of the time I'm putting out free, you know. So you're working the overnight show. Yeah, it's cool, man. I mean, it's a good job. Walmart's going to be around, you know. Yes. It's not going anywhere. and I'm investing, I'm putting money into the 401K,

which I'm saving money or trying to, right? Because I should have done that my whole life. Yeah. That's just my bad. My dad told me, you need to spend less and save. My mom might spend the money. So I inherited my mother's spending things, and my dad's saved.

But I couldn't ask for a better life. I've been blessed. I speak on behalf of all fans when we're just happy to see you doing well. Yeah, I'm happy to be part of y'all's world again, you know? I mean. Yeah, I think wrestling, fans are welcoming you with open arms. That's one thing about wrestling, business is forgiving, and not that I did anything bad,

but I mean, guys have left, you know, and come back and they've had all kind of things happen. But, I mean, we're all human, you know? And I mean, like, you reference guys like DDP, man, it's tremendous that he helps guys, right? He's an amazing person. Watching all the things he's done to help people is amazing, man. Yeah, the world's a better place because DDP's in it.

Yeah, and that's what we all should do, help creation, man, help each other. DDP's help so many guys. Yeah. The late great Scott Hall. Yeah, and guys who are in bad shape, man. Yeah, he was in bad shape. He turned Jake the Snake's life around. Amazing, man.

Scottie Riggs recently. Yeah. I mean, I'm just scratching the surface of people. He's helped. He's for real. He's for real. He's no below. He's not doing no gimmick.

And he is, what you see is what you get with him. Yeah, yeah. He's a tremendous guy, man. I mean, hey, hiding right's got to get like that one day, get himself together and help the world out. That'll be strange. You're such a, you have such a kind manner about you. Right. A lot of people say that, man, it's like you're going to kill somebody, but you really is a big teddy bear, wouldn't I?

Say, I don't mean I can't kill you, though. I want to thank you for making the time to do this. Oh, man. Thank you, brother. And thank all the fans, you know. I miss y'all. And it's good because it lifts your spirits, man, when you, you. You forget about what you've done and forget about a world you're part of,

and you're always part of that world, you know? I mean, because you were there, but you can interact with it. And getting out and meeting people and doing stuff is good, you know. I end every interview talking about gratitude. Gratitude is such a huge thing in my life, focusing on the things that you have. Yeah, you have to, man. You have to make a conscious effort every day, bro, you know, right? Because it's easy to get all spun out negative, man.

It's with the world and everything. Yeah. It's like, man, look at all you have. And it's not always easy, but I'm the same way. That's why I was impressed by you. You're kind and good. And it's just, if you have people like that around you, we're all fellowship and we're all comrades, right? Yeah.

And, I mean, that's a great thing, man. Because, like you say, you spread that, you know. So, John, what are three things right now that you're grateful for? Well, my life and all the experiences in it. my mom and dad, and I guess friends of mine that I've had and I've made like you, you know, that help me, you know, because no one makes it alone, right? There's so many people that have helped me. And getting back out there and opening the door to that opens up the opportunities, not just for money, it's just for growth, you know, and being happy and positive.

Because wrestling has brought a lot of joy to me, and I think it brought a lot of joy to others. I can get back into that and do it again. Yeah, and you brought a lot of joy to people watching. Yeah, man. I guess I kind of forgot that, getting, you know, whenever you're going through in life,

we're all going through it one way or the other, right? But getting back in touch with that, that's been like a blessing or a great, you know, fortunate. It was like, maybe it's fate, like you say,

things don't happen for just happenstance, right? Well, think about how this came together, right? You're just working a normal shift at Walmart. You're not thinking anything of it. You're chatting with this guy who just seems like a great guy. Yeah, he is. He takes a photo of you, puts that out there. That starts to get some traction.

That's insane, man. That turns into you now getting bookings at conventions. It turns out to us being friends now and sitting here having this conversation. We are friends and brothers, man, eternally. For real, man, you're awesome. Hey, I'm happy, man. I feel fortunate, you know? I love that.

I just love the sequence of events. Yeah. It was meant to be. Yeah. It was meant to bring me. you back to wrestling. Right, right. Yeah, it's time, man. It's been too long, right? I've been in my too long, man. Yeah, well, welcome back. Yeah, thank you, man. It's awesome. And thank you for this. Yeah, and I hope, I mean, I'm sure we'll stay in touch and do more stuff or whatever.

Absolutely. And if you ever need anything, please let me know. Yeah, I want to leave that open with you because there's so many people you reach, man, the numbers with your stuff is insane. So that's cool, you know. Because it's got wheels turning in my head about other things to do, you know? Yeah. Right? Well, let me know. Yeah, because, I mean, you want to get doing better where you're going to actually help, you know, try to help others in some way, shape, or form, right?

I believe that. Yeah. Well, John, thank you again. Yeah, thank you, man. It's cool. Hey, y'all's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up?

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