Insight with Chris Van Vliet - How to be a better interviewer - Riaz Meghji on why Every Conversation Counts

Episode Date: April 8, 2021

Riaz Meghji is a television host, professional speaker, and author residing in Vancouver, BC, Canada. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about his new book "Every Conversation Counts", how you can ask better questions in your life, the power of human connection, tips to make people feel famous when you speak to them, his favorite celebrity interviews, and more!If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to https://chrisvanvliet.comFor more on Riaz, visit: https://riazmeghji.comFollow CVV on social media:Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVlietTwitter:twitter.com/ChrisVanVlietFacebook:facebook.com/ChrisVanVlietYouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, y'all? It's Drewski, and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a hilarious new basketball podcast called The Do Zone with Drewski. Learn the backstories of your favorite ballers and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time or no? Was the Raptors even started around that time? Come on, bro. I ain't that old, Phil.

You're talking like I was 50. Taylor, Rokes, Asian Wilson, and many more. You won't want to miss this. Listen to the Doozone with Drusky on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Well, here we go, my friends. And welcome back to another. audio adventure here on the podcast known as Insight. I'm Chris Van Vleek.

Thank you so much for choosing our show in a sea of so many other options. And not only am I excited to have you with us for this, but I am pumped to have my good friend, my brother, Riaz Meggi, on the show. We've known each other coming up on 15 years, and our career paths are eerily similar. We both worked at MTV Canada. in Vancouver. He was there a few years before me. Then he went to Sun TV in Toronto. After a few years, he left. Then I worked at Sun TV in Toronto. And he is easily one of the best interviewers on the face of the planet. He's so good at connecting with other people that he wrote a fascinating

book about it called Every Conversation Counts. And after hearing this conversation, you're going to start to think about every conversation that you have in your daily life in a completely different way. Oh, by the way, Ries has also given several TED Talks. So when you have some time, look them up on YouTube and prepare to be inspired. Share this with someone who you know is going to be inspired by this. Tag us on social media. Let us know what stands out for you the most.

I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Riaz is at Riaz Meggi. That's R-I-A-Z. I said Z, even though I'm Canadian. Sorry, Riaz. We say Z in Canada. M-E-G-H-J-I. And if you haven't yet,

please hit subscribe or follow wherever you're listening to this right now. Abdullah Ahmed in Great Britain left this review on Apple Podcasts that says, Upper Eschalon, been listening and watching your interviews and podcasts for a few years now and only recently joined Apple Podcasts so I can finally leave a review. Well, thank you. Your podcasts are very enjoyable and the conversations flow seamlessly.

One of the best podcasts out there, in my opinion, Keep on doing what you're doing. And who knows, maybe one day I will be lucky enough to be on here. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to leave a review. And one day, yeah, I look forward to interviewing you, sir. I'm going to keep reading one review on every single episode till we get to that goal, 2,000 reviews or my birthday, May 19th, which is, man, that's just around the corner.

Man. All right. Those interview skills when I do interview you, Abdullah, will be vastly improved after taking some tips from this conversation. Please welcome Rias Meggi. What a pleasure to be doing this, Rias. So good to see you, man. Been too long.

Been too long. My Canadian brother that left once upon a time, but here we are back, reunited in new medium. The last time I saw you, we were both television hosts. Now we're kind of like, I don't even know what you'd call content creators. You are an author, like, you're a father now. congratulations on everything that you've got going on. Thanks so much.

Thanks so much. It's been a journey. And obviously, as a television host, in this era, whether you live in Canada, and that's why I am right now, Vancouver, BC,

or anywhere in the world, there are so many opportunities to just get creative and share a message if you have one. And here we get to do that here on Insight. So congrats to you too, man. This is a great show you put together.

Although I don't have any wrestling moves. I feel a little inadequate being here. I'm sure you could do a headlock or something like that. You know. I'm the hit and run guy. I'll be the manager that I'll slap you and then run for carbon. I like this. You won't know this, but something that you said in one of your keynotes inspired the heck out of me when I first heard it many years ago.

And your whole thing is every conversation counts, which on the outset is like, it's so true. Literally, every conversation counts. Our entire lives are built on the conversations that we have. But when you ask the question, what's the most important conversation of your life? It really took me back and I went, oh, wow. Because the answer to that, I think, really shows like, what type of a person you are and the direction that you're headed in as well? Now you got me hooked.

What was it? I mean, it took me a long time to really think about this. And I think for me, it's like my whole career has been about like broadcasting. I started in radio, internship in television turned into the career that I've had now. And I think if I had to boil it down to one conversation, I think it was the conversation that landed me an internship at Checks TV in Peterborough, Ontario. I was driving an hour each way, working my high school job at the fish department of a pet store to pay for the gas to go to my internship.

But this isn't about me, but basically I googled the general manager. manager's email at the small TV station, Peterborough, Ontario, lied to him and said, I'm going to be in Peterborough next week for spring break. It'd be great to just come in and have a conversation with you. And that's basically how my entire career began. So I think for me, that's it. But where did this idea come from for you that that one conversation could be so pivotal to someone's life? three days before I gave a TED talk at TEDx Simon Fraser University back in 2012. And I was a business grad that just defected into television because of pure passion and commitment. Yeah.

A friend of mine, Sam, reached out and said, hey, Rias, you know, you're probably going to share some great stories in your TED talk. But what's the title you're going to put on this talk? And anyone that has the opportunity to present, you know, their material or give, you know, a more formal talk, that's a real opportunity to impact somebody and move somebody and inspire them to do something differently. And him, Sam asking me that question made me really reflect on why is it that I love the art of the interview? Yeah. Why is it? And at the point, I was hosting a show called Breakfast Television, Vancouver.

Why is it that I'm waking up at 4 a.m. every morning. Monday to Friday to interview people for a living. And when I really got down to it, the answer was the power of any given conversation. Yes. And it really made me reflect on that, you know, not every conversation we have is going to be life-changing, but every conversation, whether that's a celebrity, whether that's a wrestler, whether that's a philanthropist, an athlete, every conversation has the potential to change somebody's life.

Yeah. And when I answered that question that Sam threw at me, I became more intentional entitled to talk every conversation counts. And then that gave me such clarity and more of a fascination to deep dive into the science of how and why we connect on a human level. I mean, I look up to you and I have for a lot of my career because you're such a great interviewer. And I want to know for you, where does that begin?

What do you think are the building blocks of a great? conversation or in our case in our career a great televised or broadcasted interview this is so good on so many levels that that you address this right off the top i would make the critical mistake in my interviews that i would research the guest that watched their movie listen to their album and then come up what i thought was a brilliant list of questions and then the way i and i watched my playback to this day, every single interview I do, and even being an interviewee, just to watch and to learn. And Chris, I would watch the interviews and then say, yep, I asked all my questions, check, success. But then after time, I started to realize I am completely missing the mark

because I'm caught up in all of this research I'm doing. And the one key lesson and breakthrough that I have is to approach any great interview is to over-prepared to improvise. Because that research is going to give me confidence and show that person that I care about the contribution they've made. But the opportunity for real connection is that leaning in, listening, and improvising, because they may throw something at me that I didn't research. But that's a priority to them and that could have a highly emotional component. and following that lead as opposed to falling back on, oh, but I had this question. That's where the magic happens.

And one of the things I would do in the green room, and I was becoming more conscious of doing it, was I'd walk in and no matter who the guest was, one of the first questions that threw out them was just, hey, thanks for being here. What's on your mind? And the things that would come out of their mouth would allow me to understand that's the priority occupying this person's mental space, let's explore this because people love that. They're like, they're listening, they're paying attention, and then examining and exploring that space unlocked new spaces because then they trust. And once you have trust, you can have

a beautiful, deep dive of a conversation. I've heard that Oprah would go into the green room before her interviews and go, what's your intention for this interview? And I went, oh, that's so good. That's so powerful. Because otherwise, it's just a conversation. It's just an interview. But if you're going to be on the Oprah Winfrey show, one of the biggest shows in the history of television, she's basically saying, all you're going to have six minutes, eight minutes,

whatever the segment is. What's your intention? What would you like to get out of this? And I thought that that was just so powerful that she was aware enough to know to ask that question before they even started. I love that even more. You just took what's on your mind

and just put it into the honors class. What's your intention? Well, I think you put Oprah in any sentence and it just takes it up a level, I feel like. Oh, that is great because you get to the core, either question, what's on your mind or what's your intention of what the priority is for the person in front of you, and that's where the magic happens. I think one of the big things I've realized, you know,

now that I've had my podcast almost two years now and my YouTube videos have just been getting increasingly longer and longer because I just love a great conversation. But Rias, you've got to know how difficult it is. I mean, you're on breakfast television. I'll set this up for our American. listeners, our American viewers. That's like the Canadian version of Good Morning America. It's like the Canadian version of the Today Show. And sometimes you've only got six minutes to have this entire conversation where you and I will have the luxury during this conversation

to talk for an hour-ish. Sometimes when a person's leading you down that path and you know you've only got two minutes until you've got to throw to a commercial break, it's tough to switch gears and go to another topic because you need to promote their book, their movie, you know, their appearance, whatever. That's a difficult thing to do. And I think that's where the preparation comes in to understand a six-minute interview. And it's funny now being on the other side answering the questions. At first it was really weird, but being a good interviewer is a skill. Being an effective interviewee is also a skill.

For sure. And there's an opportunity on both sides. If you're watching and listening to this conversation right now thinking, okay, I've got big interview coming up where I'm the guest, think about what is the magnetic quote that you could share that's going to resonate in somebody's mind. And even if you're told, especially in a live atmosphere, you have six to eight minutes, I've been doing, you know, live interviews where they say, sorry, we're running behind. We only have three minutes, 20 seconds. In my mind, I'm recalibrating thinking, okay, what, you know, what is my intention to quino of what you want to get across?

or it's pure guidance. Like I will ask a question, give them 45 seconds to 60 seconds, you know, max in a live interview if it's truncated, and then guide them. Follow their emotion and guide them. So I know what they want to get across and make sure they get those key messages in. We've both interviewed a lot of celebrities. We've both interviewed a lot of the same celebrities. How interesting is it when you get those great interviewees that you talk about where you

could throw literally any question at them and they're going to go. So, wow, my new film is out on April 30th, and you can see this everyone. It's like, wow, you're both a pro, and this is also super frustrating. Yeah, because, and that is a good challenge. And as you described that, it makes me think of junket interviews, where someone's got that movie coming out, they're in a hotel for the weekend, us as interviews, we go in, we all have five minutes. They know they're talking points.

And then it's on us to break through that, which is difficult at times, because they're has to be a willingness on their part to share something new. They could be exhausted. And it really comes down to a commitment to listening for the cues they give us so we don't get caught up in the curiosity that we had coming in. And then it just falls into autopilot. Like the message behind every conversation counts in this book has always been, how do we all, especially after this past year and people are just feeling that something's missing and we've lost human connection, And how do we break out of autopilot mode and just become more intentional with how we connect, whether we're interviewing somebody or just beside somebody, whether that's our partner,

a parent, friend, or maybe even a child? I want to bring this back around to that first question that we started this conversation with. What was the most important conversation in your life, Rias? This conversation for me was a crossroads conversation. And it happened early 2000s, final semester. Simon Fraser University, going after a business degree, going to be a broker. And I had just finished facilitating some sessions at a conference in Quebec City for the student group, international student group.

The co-chair of this conference, his name is Lofi. Phenomenal, charismatic figure, he could electrify an audience, funny guy. Now, I had the fortune of having Lofi sit in on some of my sessions. And after this conference, Lofi came to me and he said, hey, man, I don't think you should go in a business. And I remember looking at him, thinking, okay, he's like, look, you were 22 years old. You've got something to contribute in the presentation space. I think you should go after it, whether that's television or some type of visual medium.

You have an opportunity to do something great in this world. And I remember looking at him, thinking, yeah, but I'm also from a South Asian family, right? So if you're not a doctor, lawyer, dentist or some sort of financial expert, you know, that's a problem with mom and dad. Look, even as I say, you can hear sirens in the background, right? It's like, hey. Jay Shetty always jokes that you're either a doctor, a lawyer, or a failure. Those are your three options.

Oh, that's good. Yeah, that's real talk, though, on the cultural line. And when I threw out that excuse, because that's really what it was, Lofin came back and he said, when are you going to stop playing safe? and start living your life. Did you feel like you were living somebody else's life? Absolutely. I was living the life of what my parents wanted me to be.

And when I made the decision, you know, after that conversation, a seeds planted. Any of us in our lives, if we're fortunate enough to have somebody that sees something in you before you see it yourself, that is such a gift. And that's what that crosswords conversation was for me. and then entering all these contests to break into the industry, my parents were concerned. And now so many years later, being a parent, I understand it's not that they didn't want me to do what I wanted to do.

They were concerned for my well-being because for them, they came from East Africa in the 70s to Canada with a couple hundred bucks in their pocket. And they worked hard to create a life for myself and my brother and to take care of their family. And they wanted to make sure we were okay. Yeah. And I get that now, but at the time it was scary, but it was exhilarating to have that sense of discovery of this could be the thing.

And I love doing this. And then it really started opening up opportunities in the television business in Canada. And this is 20 years ago when social media didn't exist. So you've got to carve this path for yourself, which is so much more difficult than how it is now. Man, it was an uphill battle at all times. I mean, the media industry is so volatile and has been shrinking in the past decades. I thought I hit the lottery with my first on-air gig with MTV Canada. And I just, you know, always actually, you know, one of the producers at MTV gave me some great advice,

bringing my business analytical minded to my first interview. I gave them my list of questions and they said to me, okay, I can tell you, research this person, but, you know, where? Where's the fun in this? How are you going to ignite this guest? So they're having fun, they're smiling, you're smiling, and the audience will enjoy the experience too. And for me, in that lesson, I was kind of stubborn at the time because coming out of the business world, the ego was built up. No, these are good questions.

This is how it should work. And that producer reminded me to always maintain a beginner's mindset. Because if you're the expert, there's only a few options in your mind. But if you're the beginner, the possibilities are endless. That's such a great mindset that you can take with you into every aspect of your life, too, that beginner's mindset. And the people who have some of the greatest minds, the people who have accomplished some of the biggest best things in the world, approach every situation with that beginner's mindset.

Yeah, just staying open to the possibilities. It's so easy for our ego to get in the way. And that was such a great lesson for me to disarm and let go of the ego and just be that sponge that can stay open, that can learn, that can explore the possibility of what someone might get. I love that there's going a lot of people listening to this going, what's my conversation? What's my one conversation? What's the most important conversation in my life? And you can probably boil it down to five or three or two. But I think there's also going to be a lot of people that might be at that crossroads, where they go, I've always wanted to do this,

but I'm stuck doing this other thing instead. What do you say to someone? that maybe is scared, maybe is nervous about chasing after their passion. And maybe it's the interviewing instinct. It's not something I'll say. It's something I'll ask. And if they say they're scared, I'll explore that. Because my goal is always, if somebody's at a point where they're unconsciously making excuses of why they don't have something or why something's not working,

and excuses are just those unconscious assumptions that it's going to fail. or I don't have time. One of the biggest questions I'll ask is, why do you need this? Because we don't lack time, we don't like discipline, we lack necessity if we haven't achieved that thing or we're not going after that day. So the first starting point I would ask is, why do you need it? I love it. And then ask the questions to allow them to self-diagnose where they're at.

Because people don't need me to tell them, oh, here's what you need to do to get there. it's just being that soundboard and that mirror to objectively ask the questions to unlock something for them to say, that's why I haven't done it yet. Okay, I'm going to go after it. And that is truly the power of questions and what our curiosity can do. Tony Robbins always says the quality of your life is the quality of the questions that you ask. And for someone like me or you, and I love how you'll phrase that you say you're in the business of conversation, I'm like, ah, it's so good. You're not an interviewer, you're in the business of conversation. I'm like, I'm totally stealing that Rias. That's so good. But because you and I do this for a living, I realize, like, the better your

questions are, the better your answers will be, not just in an interview setting, in life, in general. What do you think are like three building blocks for someone to start asking better questions in their life every day? Starting point, less info, more emotion. And I'll give you some great research done by the late psychiatrist Gordon Livingston. He really focused on what the happiness equation is for people. And in his work over the years, he looked at the idea that the happiest people have something to do, they have someone to love, and they have something to look forward to. And when you think about the context of, hey, okay, us as interviewers, Chris, somebody could be listening,

well, what if I don't have all the time to do the research? What if I really want to connect with someone that's right in front of? to me and I have no context of who they are, you ask them about what they're doing, who they love, and what they're looking forward to. All of those questions have a high emotional component. We get caught up in the superficial information. Like, think about what small talk is about the weather. What are you doing on the weekend? These are just information transactions. If we want to connect with people, let's break away from just the info and really dive into the emotion and the emotion of what matters with people.

And emotion really lives in relationships. Think of how powerful of a question, what are you excited about in your life? Think about how powerful of a question that is because you're right, it cuts through all of that small talk, cuts through all the BS and gets to like the core of who you are as a person.

Because however you answer that question tells me a ton about who you are as a person. And when people give you that gift, one of the things I always try to consciously do is not only listen to what they're giving me, but look out for uncommon common commonalities. You and I have this unique history where we both worked on a show called 969 for MTV Canada.

We both worked on a show called Inside Jam for Sun TV way back in the day. And now we're both in this online space creating content. The little social cues that people give us that are unique connection points, if we can document those, One of the things I want to see the world get rid of is sending an email when you're checking in with someone, whether it's a week, a month, a year after you've had a conversation, much like we're having a conversation today, instead of saying, hey, Chris, let's eliminate hope you're well and say, hey, Chris, remember when you told me this, when we had that chat on insight, the most important line someone could give you is like, man,

it's been so long, I can't believe you remembered that. Yeah. That's what we need right now. Well, that's, I mean, so the subtitle of your book, your book is called Every Conversation Counts, but I love this subtitle here. It's the five habits of human connection that build extraordinary relationships. Can you kind of bullet point for us, those five habits that we can do to have better relationships, to have better connections? Well, we've talked a lot about listening, and I'm going to batheed off with the first habit of listen without distraction. Yeah.

And the concept of this is especially during the pandemic, for many of us working from home and figuring out how we do this and multitask with all of these distractions. Some of the science we found for this book is that our brains absorb four to 500 words per minute. Yet the average person speaks at a rate of 125 words per minute. And if you look at that, we're almost too smart for our own good. And our brain has a sensational appetite for information. So we could be having this conversation. And meanwhile, I could be scanning my phone looking for information. I could be caught up in daydreaming.

I could get emotionally distracted if I disagree with you. Listen without distraction really starts with auditing ourselves and really looking at our conversations and understanding what's getting in the way. Yeah. And then when we pinpoint those, start picking them off one by one. Yeah. So that's number one. What are the other four here?

Number two, make your small talk bigger. and one of the biggest ways to do this is to dive in and focus on the emotional context of our questions. Expansive questions we're asking of questions that start with how, that start with what, that start with why. Because they open up the conversation to create a more emotional component. If we're just going who, we're going when, these are just straight informational transactions. We're breaking out of that. And the other idea is to ask for stories, much like you've done about hey, what's the story behind your most important conversation? As for stories, not just answers, because emotion lives in story.

And I think people need to realize you don't have to be a professional interviewer to use these tactics in your daily life. This just makes you a better communicator from top to bottom, whether you're talking to your husband or wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend, whether you're talking to your kids, your boss, whoever, if you can have a better, if you can be a better communicator, just get better places in life. as you're articulating that think about the idea of a job interview and if somebody said to you Chris now tell me what your characteristics are as a team as a team player you could sit there

and say you know what I'm a hard worker I'm trustworthy now are they going to believe you if you just say those things or if you have a great story that reveals your character of the adversity you faced you're going to draw them in so much more one they're going to remember you and two they're going to believe those character traits so much more. And I think that's a big thing that you've keyed in on here is like making people remember you. Like how important is that job interview, perfect example? How about a first date?

You want someone to remember you. Like it's such an important thing for people to remember you. All right. So that's one and two. What's number three? Number three is going to dive nicely into this first date example you just gave. Number three is put aside your perfect persona. there was an interview that I had done years ago with the former publisher of success magazine,

Darren Hardy. He actually wrote the book Compound Effect, one of my favorites of just consistently showing up and the success it can create in your life. And I had 20 minutes with Darren Hardy at a conference in Whistler, BC. The organizer just said, hey, if you want to talk to him, we'll give you that time. And I asked him, because Darren's interviewed some of the biggest names in the world, Oprah included. And I said to him, like, Darren, what is this? the secret for you to get people to open up and trust you. Yeah. So you not only get something great for your interview, but you're also building a powerful relationship. And he kind of smiled and he said, go first. And I said, okay, go first. Like, what does that mean? How does that, like, how do

I apply that? And he said, if you want someone to trust you, go first and share something raw and candid in your own life to show you trust them. That's so good. And if you want to motivate somebody, go first and find out what motivates them and help them achieve that. Yeah. And this idea, and I thought, okay, go first. And if you're listening to this, you might think, okay, first date, what if I go first

and share something? And then it's like TMI. There's a fine line on that because that's an important point of going first. And there's a psychological concept known as the pratfall effect. where credibility before vulnerability is key. Yeah. Because it's important to establish our point of authority, responsibility and respect first,

and that vulnerability after will draw people closer to us. But if people already perceive us, if you're on this first date and you look like a schlep and people are thinking you're incompetent, your share will be construed as an overshare and create distance as opposed to drawing somewhere closer. So it's really important as we're putting aside our perfect persona, one, to lead with honesty and realness, but two, to put in the work and establish your credibility as well.

You are dropping all kinds of knowledge bombs here, Rias. I love this. Man, we're only halfway through. What's number four? Number four is to be assertively empathetic. And if we look at the polarized climate, we're living through, not just in America, not just in Canada, just around the world right now, how can we, if we're going to be assertively empathetic, discover before we dismiss people? And this pops up especially, I think of emotional distractions on this when we disagree with someone. Like relationship is the foundation for productive conversation. And what's happening is when we disagree, it's a confrontation.

It's not a collaboration. And some quick tips on how we can really lead and show up in our. our lives, not just at work, but just with the people we love with people we're meeting, is how we put the relationship first and then logic second. No matter what somebody has said, whether you agree with it or not, acknowledge them. You've heard them, recap their perspective, acknowledge what they have given you because people want to be seen, heard, and they want that sense of belonging. Yeah. And you don't necessarily have to agree with someone to empathize with them. You can go, you know what? I've never looked at it that way. That's a really interesting

way to look at it. And I think that that's such an important thing to say, which a lot of people don't do. It opens it up of saying, you've accepted what I've given you immediately out of the gate. And I think that helps disarm the tension that could exist and help de-escalate conflict so you can have really productive conversations. Yeah. It's like, how do you productively disagree? Assertive empathy is our big starting point. And then, you know, through the power of questions and logic after really understanding, okay, Chris, what's your ideal scenario with the insight? You know, what would it take for this to work for you? What's the real challenge here? And it shows through acknowledgement, empathy, that, hey, we're on the same side of a productive

conversation as opposed to opposite ends of an unproductive confrontation. Yeah. Number five is my favorite. Make people feel famous. I absolutely love this. And like I mentioned before, you and I interviewed a lot of the same people. I'm really curious, Rias, who's the celebrity that you've interviewed, or maybe it's more than one, who made you feel famous, who went out of their way to make you feel like a star? Well, I saw this on display. And anytime I give this example, there's a mixed reaction on this star, but I'm going to say it anyways, because I respect the way he runs his business of celebrity, and it's Tom Cruise. And in Vienna, I think this was like 2016,

2017, don't quote me on the year, but... That was Mission Impossible five red carpet, wasn't it? It was Rogue Nation.

Oh, yeah, oh yeah, that's it, yeah. Yeah. So that was my first glimpse

of how Tom operates. And, you know, a host, I think I was beside a host from Extra at the time, you know,

how it is on the red carpet, they jam me all in. And he said, watch, Tom's going to show up an hour before this red carpet, and he's going to be

with the fans for an hour before he hits this carpet, hours and he's going to talk to everybody. And I'm like, no way. How was he going to do all that? And then watch this movie. But sure enough, this is exactly what he did. And I thought for sure, I was beside extra. I was reporting for a Canadian outlet, City TV. And I thought they're going to brush by us. Tom came right up. Bang, eye contact locked in. And even as he was answering the

questions and giving us, you know, just the best of himself, I saw the publicist, you know, they come in, they tap the elbow, go on to the next one. He's brushed it off. He was there to answer the questions and be as present as possible. And I thought, who am I to this guy in the grand scheme of things? He's got all these other major outlets there to do his press to amplify his movie. But I watched him, not only with myself, but with every single person. And it was such like a simple thing. And some people will say, well, you know, Tom, Tom's kind of weird. He's a little extreme. Remember when he was jumping on Oprah's couch? People, you know, when I tell this story, they talk about Scientology. And I'm like, put all about

aside and look at the simple gesture of how. you could show up in somebody's life because make people feel famous, especially right now, speaks to the fact that everybody in their life needs a champion or a cheerleader in their corner to lift them up. And you can do that for anyone, not just a close friend, anyone you meet on the street at any given time. How can someone in our everyday life, not in an interaction with Tom Cruise, and we'll get to that a little bit more in a second. But how can people in their everyday life make someone feel famous. Celebrate them.

And looking at the idea, a simple example of how we use praise. And like if you see somebody and you know what you like what they're wearing or you love the smile they have or the energy they give, let's get into a space where we're using praise to be specific. Let's eliminate just saying, hey, man, great job or hey,

love what you're doing. Get specific with it. And make it personal of, hey, what you did, Chris, what you're doing with insight, man, I'm inspired to go out there and create even more content because of the consistency you're showing up with. And making that praise public and making it urgent. Sometimes like, you know, we wait. We're a little anxious.

Oh, maybe they don't want to hear my comment. Well, maybe that comment could make a huge difference. And thinking about the power of praise, you can give any human being today, whenever, you know, next week, maybe you're seeing somebody important. Light them up. but do it with specificity. My story with Tom Cruise is very similar to your story. I got him for the next Mission Impossible movie.

In Paris, in the shadow of the Eiffel Tower, I tell the story all the time. And I get a similar reaction, like, really, Tom Cruise? I'm like, personal life aside, what an incredible actor, what an amazing movie star. But it's funny on the flip side of things, Reyes, how you can have an interaction with a celebrity that doesn't go the way you thought it would go or interaction just with somebody. Maybe it's when you're getting coffee or maybe when you're getting gas or whatever, maybe when you're checking into the hotel that can absolutely ruin your idea of that person or that brand for the rest of your life.

Yeah, it's nerve-wracking, especially if you respect somebody in such a major way. And then you're like, oh, no, that's what they're really like. But also recognize that could be a bad day for that person. And then we've crossed paths with them in an off day. We all have off days. So that in itself takes a bit of empathy to understand, okay, maybe that's not really them. How can you really judge somebody on a sample size of one? It's hard.

But I think that there's always that time where you're sitting on the couch, you're watching that movie on Netflix or Hulu or HBO or Max, whatever happens to be. A certain actor comes on and they go, yeah, I saw that guy walking out of a pizza place in New York. I said hi. He looked at me and then looked the other way. I hate that guy. It's like, well, maybe he didn't hear you. you. So that I kind of took what you said with number five there, make people feel,

feel famous. And I've remembered that in my life with any sort of interaction that I might have for someone who subscribes my podcast, might have seen me on TV, listens to me on YouTube. I'm like, let's, let's take that moment and try to make this the best interaction absolutely possible. And for you, I mean, you were on a massive show for so long in Vancouver, one of the most recognizable faces in that city. I imagine that that's something you applied to your life all the time too. If we're fortunate enough to be on a platform, I fully recognize there's a big responsibility that comes with it.

And if people are engaged and if people like what you're doing and they come in contact with you. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. soccer podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clevenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity.

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But if you're going to be in the public eye, one I understand. you'll never have 100% approval. So no matter how pure my intention can be, there could be some people that really jive with this content we're talking about and some that'll be like, Tom Cruise, well, make people, no, I'm just going to do me. And that's okay. Yeah.

And that's okay. And it's just my role is just to accept, to listen, and just be open to any energy that's going to come my way. And then I have a choice of how I'm going to react to it. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Is there something interfering with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? BetterHelp will assess your needs

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Just go to betterhelp.com slash insight. That's BetterHelphelp.com slash insight. Have you had the good fortune of interviewing The Rock? Oh, no, but I love the rapport you have with this man. It is brilliant. That is a gift in itself. Thank you. That's very kind of you to say. I think it's about 1% me and 99% Dwayne Johnson going, I'm going to make this guy any person actually feel famous when we do this interview. Man, like from what I've seen from his interactions and like this is like the degrees of separation to the rocks greatest through you. It's just, and even Will Smith, Will Smith. The way he does that, like it's a gift.

But that takes effort. They recognize they are where they are because of the reporters, because of the fans, because of the people that get behind them. And it's so important to just give that energy back. How much do you think that this is an innate quality and how much of it is a learned behavior to make someone feel famous, to be a great communicator? A bit of both. One, I think it's a heightened sense of self-awareness of how am I showing. up. What's the energy that I'm putting into this space and how are people jiving with this energy? Like one of the greatest and most difficult questions you could ask somebody is, and you've got to

trust them to ask this, what is it like being on the other side of me? And if you're going to ask that question to someone that you care about, you might learn some interesting things and it could be a challenge to stay open because it's easy to get defensive. But having that desire and curiosity to understand how this energy, how this contribution is being read, is important. Yeah. Because if you want, like I've always operated under this service mentality. And as I say this, there's a fine line because I never want to sacrifice authenticity for external approval.

That's not what I'm saying. It's just having a sense of awareness of what I'm putting out there. Is it serving? Is it helping people? If it's missing the mark, I want that constructive feedback. I'm not looking for you to validate who I am as a person, but I want that constructive. constructive feedback to grow, learn, and serve in bigger ways. I think it'd be too easy to ask you who's your favorite celebrity that you've interviewed.

So keeping with the theme of your book and every conversation counts, what's been your favorite conversation that you've had with a celebrity? We've stumped him. You know, that's so interesting. So many thoughts come to my mind because I'm a guy that always tries to document the lessons. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think one of my favorites, and this is lesson driven, would be with, he's a notable figure in Canada. And he hosts Hockey Night in Canada.

Ron McLean. Ron McLean. Yeah. And he's a magnificent storyteller. But I remember in an interview with Ron, he was telling me about his most important conversation, being a young radio jock that was all about himself. And when he first got into the business, he was really happy about a moment he had with a list. and his program director said, yeah, but it was too showy. You were more concerned about how good you looked as opposed to leading with authentic wonder with the listener.

And in that moment, he shared with me, Reyes, no matter where you are, whether you're an interviewer or whoever you're with, there are always two teachers in the room. And I said, two teachers in the room. And he said, yeah, the one, the person that is speaking and sharing their life experience, their story, their lessons. but you can also be a teacher with how you listen and how you ask these questions and how you explore the experience with them, which leads to one of the great themes behind the book of, look at you is greater than look at me.

And that is a pillar for connections. So out of all of them, I know it's probably not like the glitz and glam of AILA celebrity, no dis to Ron, because he is, you know, incredible at what he does. But that would stay with me. And I appreciated the realness he brought in that chat. Ron is Canadian broadcasting royalty.

So, no. And I'm with you. Like, sure, it's been cool to, you know, I could list off a hundred names of people I've interviewed. But my favorite interviews are the ones where I can take a moment from that interview or a line from that interview and go, that changed my life. And I'll give you my story here real quick. It is The Rock. And The Rock meant so much to me growing up. Like in high school, I was huge, huge wrestling fans.

am, but a big fan of the Rock. And the Rock's dream wasn't to be in the WWE. The Rock's dream wasn't to be a movie star. The Rock's dream was to play in the NFL. Think about that for a minute, that the Rock's dream was to play in the NFL, and he got cut from the CFL. So when I interviewed him on the red carpet for ballers, and his character in Ballers is a retired football player, I said, if you wanted to be more like Spencer Strathmore, your character in this TV show, would you go back and change anything so that you could live your dream to play in the NFL. And he said, first of all, he said, that's a great question because that's what the rock does.

And he's so good about making you feel famous. But I wouldn't change anything because sometimes the best things in life are the things that don't happen. And you were not aware that you said this before we were on camera here, but I was talking about something. You said, that's probably the best thing to not happen to you. I went, yes, it's so true. Because sometimes we have this idea in our mind of like,

I need to do A to B to C, and this is my path that I'm going to go on. Sometimes life throws you a curveball. And sometimes you need to sit back on that curveball and hit that curveball rather than going, no, I'll just wait for the next one. And I think that that's such an important thing. Look, that's basically the story of your life. You're on a path to become an investment banker. And look where the path that you've taken yourself has led to.

I know. I'm here broadcasting from my son's old bedroom. at some's all bedroom. We made moves, man. We made moves. But as you say that, as you say that, Chris, I want to recognize this, this point you're making with the rock story of what is the best thing that never happened to you? For everything, we have all been through during this pandemic. Uncertainty became our universal commonality.

We all had to change. We all had to evolve. But we learned how resilient we could be. if you were to take one thing from this interview, ask yourself, what's the best thing that didn't happen to you during the pandemic? And how do that shift your path? That is powerful, man, because there are going to be some just amazing stories that come out of the last year. If, you know, once we get past the health aspect, it's been difficult, but there's plenty of upside from what we've been through. What do you think is the biggest lesson that 2020 tie you?

I articulate this in the book, the human connection. isn't an option. It's a necessity. Yeah. Our touch points got overlooked. Like how many times that somebody said, hey, you want to come to this? You want to show up at that event? And we may have second guessed it. And we may have just been on autopilot mode of how we checked in with people. You take that away from us as social animals. I personally felt the degree of loneliness. I mean, the book tackles what I call the social pandemic of loneliness that existed well before the pandemic and COVID it even began. And now, when we lost that all, one of the other things I say is that the pandemic,

it doesn't change your identity. It reveals it. And one of the big reveals for me was looking at how powerful human connection is because our well-being or our meaningful connection, that's our new competitive advantage. And one of the most important questions I'm asking now is not what's the world going to look like post-pandemic or in 2025 or 2030. For me, it's how can I and how can we have meaningful human connection regardless of the context, regardless of the barriers that are up against us? I think it's been a very revealing time, right? And I heard someone refer to this as the great pause.

And I love that because it's given us all a chance to pause and go, who's important and what's important in our life. And I think you're so right. This isn't just a lesson that we learn from the pandemic. This is a lesson we learn from the pandemic and move forward and take with us for the rest of our lives. and how we can just be more intentional with every gesture. One of the things, it's a simple thing, but the late social scientists, neuroscientists, I should say,

John Cassiopo, he was known for putting the idea and challenge of loneliness on the map. And he talked about, well, how do you combat loneliness? And on a simple level, it's creating more face-to-face connection. Yeah. So that got stripped out this year. But if you think about the events that you could celebrate, the milestones you could celebrate, sometimes in autopilot mode, we could send a text. Hey, happy birthday. Happy anniversary.

But instead, just pick up your phone and shoot a 30-second video and send that to someone you know. Let them see you. Let them feel your emotion. Those simple gestures make a huge difference. Instead of just buying somebody's card, hallmark card, that's got words in there already, let's personalize the message through video, through emotion. And that's a simple thing that could become a new habit even post-pandem. Something I've noticed from high achievers is they love voice texts.

And I think, number one, it definitely adds a different sense of like adding that personal touch to it. But it's also like, it's way easier to just hawk your thing out and send it to someone rather than typing it out. But I think that there's a huge lesson to be learned there. Like if you sent me a voice message, I hear the tone of your voice, I hear how excited you are or how angry you are, whatever it happens to be. And I think you're right. It's like not even going the extra mile. It's like going the extra like, I don't know, handful of feet. Just walk a couple more steps.

Yeah. And here's also, you know, unconsciously why this is valuable. Because what we see shapes what we hear. Yeah. And even on a voice text, sometimes it's hard to, you know, retone and connecting a virtual world's difficult. If you just send like a two-letter text like, okay, think about how okay is. misconstrued in so many ways. But if they see you, they're like, oh, yeah, I'm feeling that energy.

I know what Chris is saying here. It makes a difference. Like, we've all been able to connect a little bit more over this last year using Zoom and connected a lot less over this last year because we can't meet up in person. Like, hell, I didn't even have a Zoom account to like 10 months ago. I don't even, I think I was aware of what it was, but I didn't have an account. I'm really curious, Rias, are we hanging out right now? or is this still not quite at that level of hanging out in person, grabbing a beer, being able to hug each other?

Hugs and handshakes, man. Nothing will ever replace that. Agreed. But the, you know, I use this word a lot. The intention behind this exercise of having this conversation and talking about, you know, meaningful ideas. I haven't talked to you in years. Yeah. And to be able to have this type of catch up, I mean, it's so valuable.

I mean, it is weird. because as we're doing virtual, I'm looking at the camera. Now I'm looking at the screen. Now I see you, man. Look at that smile. But the whole time I'm looking at a camera. And it is weird because if we're in a group setting and everybody's looking at their screens like I am right now, it's distracting because you think, oh, Reyes isn't

paying attention because now he's looking down at the screen. So this new choreography of connection, I believe can work requires us to just generate feedback frequently from the people involved so people don't fall into a passive mode. but nothing will ever replace the power of touch and the oxytocinic and release when we have the chance and get past us to shake somebody's hand or embrace them and feel what that means all over again. I mean, before this, I did every interview in person. Because even if it just gave me that 1% edge, I wanted to have a better interview than I would

have if we did it over Zoom or the old days of doing those satellite tours. But there's something about like feeling someone's energy and feeling someone's by vibration and like raising yourself so that you can be at their level. I love that kind of stuff. It's beautiful. And some of those intangibles of how do you read the virtual room? You give up a lot of it. And to understand is somebody, you know, are they feeling the questions I'm given?

Are they feeling these ideas? You really, you can't read it. Like one of the things, if I'm delivering a keynote speech, one of the benefits of virtual is before I close that Zoom window, there's a comment thread with immediate reaction to what you're sharing. And I will hit those three dots and I'll save the chat and I'll dissect it afterwards. I'll watch the playback and then I'll look at the chat and understand what was of value to the people. So there's just different cues for us to pick up on now in the virtual space. But yeah, nothing will replace that vibration and that energy you speak about, about being in the room with someone

and playing off each other. So we're not talking over each other. We're just propping each other up. We've talked so much about being a better listener, being a better interview or asking better questions. You are such a great speaker on a stage. You're such a great keynote speaker. And for people who are just starting out

or maybe someone who has the task in front of them of speaking to their company, what are some things that they can do to be a better public speaker? The number one place to start is to understand the psychology of speaking. A lot of people say to me, my God, I got the speaking anxiety.

Oh, I can't breathe. I tense up. And I ask them, why? Yeah. And they say to me, well, I don't know how it's going to go. And I say to them, why don't you know how it's going to go? And they're like, well, I don't know. Maybe they've heard the content before.

And then I'll ask them, are you there to give them something or are you there to take something from them? and the greatest speakers are the ones that give. And how you can speak with generosity involves presenting before you're presenting. One of the things I'll always do, if there's a keynote, I won't just talk with the event organizer to understand priorities. I'll ask them, who are three influential leaders that will be in the room or virtual room at this event that could share their personal perspective, their stories, their experiences so I can understand the pain points of what they need? So there's clarity in the necessity of my contribution. That alleviates the anxiety.

So it's not a guessing game. There's a great understanding of what they need. Then it's customizing the message that serves them. Because some speakers go on stage, they've done the work beforehand. They've talked to the people. They know what's needed. And then they go crush it and punch it home. There's others that could come up with their own message that could be

brilliant, but it's a huge guessing game because they didn't focus to understand what the group needed first. And then they're in front of that audience taking the validation, taking the applause. So many people have said to me, oh, I just can't stand virtual. No one's laughing at my jokes. And I just encouraged them to point your focus forward. It's not about your humor. It's not about how you're coming across. It's about what they need. Yeah. So really, step one, understand. crystal clear what they need and go into that groove because if you want anyone to listen to what

you're saying, you need to make a connection first and asking those questions beforehand makes a big difference. Oh, that's so powerful. I heard someone say that no one is following you on social media. Nobody's watching your videos, listening to your podcast because of who you are. They're doing it because of who they are. And this is exactly what you're saying here. It's like, think about them first because it's not about you. Yeah, I mean, that's what YouTube is. That's the critical mistake when people say, I have no views on YouTube, because the you and YouTube is not you, the presenter.

It's you, the one person on the other side of that screen that's watching you and how can you deliver for them. And what's the niche you're going to carve out? Like, it's really comes down to just pointing that focus forward. Yeah, it's bringing value. It's bringing value to the one person on the other side of that camera, on the other side of that microphone. it's bringing value.

And I think a lot of people don't leave with that. Yeah. I've really enjoyed catching up with you, man. I am so excited. The book's called Every Conversation Counts. Where's the best place for people to get it? It's available at all major bookstores, all the details behind the book at reasmicjee.com. You have to spell Mickji.

Hopefully you can put just a key on screen. I don't know. Maybe type it out on a social post. Good luck for that one. But it's on the website. And hopefully, I mean, if you choose to get this, this book and connect with the content, hit me up on social and just let me know how it serves you. It's one thing to write a book. This is my first book, but it's another to understand how it

serves people. So I'm in a state of curiosity right now of how this message lands. Look, we've both got last names that are difficult to spell and difficult to pronounce. So I very much feel you on this. The struggle is real. Rias, I end every conversation talking about gratitude because for me, me, that's the most important thing. I start and end every day with things that I'm grateful for. So I end every conversation by asking what are three things that you're grateful for in your life? Number one, my wife and my son, very fortunate during this time during the pandemic. There have been bouts of loneliness working from home and figuring out how to do this and having

my wife who goes into the office come home at the end of the day. And being with my son have helped me on those down days. Two, I'm grateful for just a powerful team that I discovered in the past year that got behind the Every Conversation Counts message. Dude, I was scared, man. You're naked. When you create something you believe in and put it out to the world, but to have people that back you and believe in you,

you know, I've had like a great experience of learning. That beginner's mindset has been powerful. So I'm grateful for my team. And three, I'm going to throw this back at you. You've created a space to have an organic conversation and dive into this point of human connection. I woke up today, excited, one, to catch up with you. And two, grateful for your interest to have this in your space.

And I joke, man, I've got no wrestling moves. I suck at every sport. But here you are having a diverse set of conversations, not just in the wrestling world, but conversations to make people's days better. So I'm grateful that you invited me in to do this with you. So thank you. That's very kind of you say thank you. And thank you for your time today.

Look, I'm fascinated by people who are at the top of their game because I think that we can learn from everybody, whether they're wrestlers or their actors or celebrities or authors or speakers or whatever. I think that, you know, us normal people are able to take, you know, a few habits and tactics and techniques from people like you and apply them to our own life. So Riaz, so good to catch up with you, but thank you for sharing some of your wisdom with us. My pleasure, man. This was a long time coming, so it was great. We had the chance to do this and hugs and handshakes. Hopefully I can make it down to L.A. in the next year and we get to do this in person and just hang out. So thanks, Chris, man.

This is part one, part two in person. Some people would be like, oh, man, this guy's going to keep talking. I'm good with part one. No, they're going to be like, I'm going to learn so much more. I'll take it, man. Thanks so much, Chris, and congrats on Insight. This is such a great vehicle, man, to just inspire the world. Well, there you go, my friends.

You can head to Rias Megg.com to get every conversation counts and to just find out more about Riaz and everything that he has going on. And I just think about conversations so differently after reading his book and after having this conversation with Rias. And that question about what the most important conversation of your life is, is it's such an interesting thing to think about. out because I think for some people, boom, you know, immediately right off the top of their head, I know exactly what it is. Maybe it's career driven. Maybe, and that's what it was for Reyes and I, but maybe it's the last conversation you had with a loved one before they passed away. Maybe it was the first conversation that you had with your significant other. But the whole root of this,

the whole point of all of this is human connection is so important and even more important over this last year that we've had. As the journalist Christopher Morley famously said, there was only one rule for being a good talker. Learn to listen. Be great. Be grateful, my friends. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary.

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Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.