Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Jake Hager Is Done With Wrestling, Jack Swagger, Leaving AEW, WWE World Heavyweight Champ

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

Jake Hager (@RealJakeHager) is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in AEW and also WWE where he went by Jack Swagger. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to discuss leaving AEW and his new trucking business called "Haulin' Oats", appearing alongside Chris Jericho on Dynamite, the "I like this hat" segments, winning the World Championship in WWE and the criticism of his reign, the origin of the "We the people" catchphrase, being slapped by Michael Cole, and more!Quote I'm thinking about: "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" - Tim NotkePlease support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux   SUPERPOWER: Go to https://Superpower.com and use code CVV to get $50 Off your annual Superpower subscription. Live up to your 100-Year potential. #superpowerpod   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV2025 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 20% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Oh, welcome back, my friends, to another one here on Inside. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Yes, CVV, the three numbers on the back of your credit card. And out of all the wrestling podcasts out there, and you know there's a lot of them. Thank you for hidden play on this episode. And thank you for helping to make insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit a gut wrench power bomb on that follow button.

So you don't miss out on any new interviews every Tuesday and Thursday. And if you're a real one, you don't want to miss out on any Ask CVVs every single Friday. If you're listening on Spotify, man, a rating on there would be so helpful. It would take like six seconds. If you're using Apple Podcasts, could you write a few words as a review? Both of those would be amazing. Jake Hager is on the show, or should I say the newly redoubt? tired, Jake Hager.

You knew him as Jack Swagger in WWE, then Jake Strong in Lucha Underground. Man, I miss Lucha Underground so much. Then he wrestled under his real name, Jake Hager in AEW. And after almost 20 years in wrestling, he says he's done. And

we get into why he's done and why he says he's jaded about wrestling. He now owns a trucking business in Florida. What a name. It's called Holland Oates. And we look back at the career of the All-American American, which included him being ECW champion, winning money in the bank, and cashing in that briefcase after WrestleMania 26 when he won it,

cashed it in a few days later on Chris Jericho and became the WWE World Heavyweight Champion. He also had an impressive MMA career in Bellator, an undefeated record of 3-0-1. And then he had that big debut in AEW on the first episode of Dynamite, when Chris Jericho formed the inner circle. Jake Hager was there just as a beast as Jericho's heater in the group. Later was a member of the Jericho Appreciation Society. There is so much to get into in this conversation. So snap a screenshot.

Let us know that you're listening to this one and tag us. He's at Real Jake Hager. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jake Hager. 42. That hair is looking great, my friend. Thank you. Is that, uh, you also have lots of hair.

Ah, you know, it's starting to get a little thin in some areas. We're about the same age. Yeah, I'm 43, 43. 43, 42. Do you like, do Canadian maple syrup in there? It helps regenerate. That's it. Yeah, yeah.

It's like regenerative farming, you know. I just spent some time with my dad last week. He's 74. Yeah. And he still has a full head of curate. Oh, nice, curly. Yeah, and I'm just like, I think I'm going to be okay. I'm a little worried, though, because, you know, this was the hairstyle when we were kids.

Yeah. Like, you know, revealing your forehead. Short and spiky. But also, like, revealing, you know, the hairline in the forehead. The kids now, they just put it down and, like, you don't know what's under there. I mean, I see, I got two nephews. They got perms. I mean, they look great.

They're very good looking. They have perms. That's right. Yeah. You know, the side shaved. Yeah. Yeah. Different day and age.

Do you remember our last interview, 2019? In the parking lot. We were in like an alley of like a indie show in Orlando. Yeah. The show, USAA or something that does the five-hour show. Do you remember, do you remember what happened? We recorded the interview. Okay.

And then I went to like look back at it. And this is when I was recording the interviews on my phone and I had like separate clip on microphones. The mic didn't work for whatever reason. And I will never forget, I had to come back into the locker room and be like, hey, Jake, I don't know how to tell you this, but could you do it again? And you went, oh, okay, all right. And what was amazing was we did almost the exact interview, like word for word, like question for question. You even told some of the same. jokes again. It was like it was a perfect performance. So I want to say thank you for doing it. Yeah, no worries. I'm glad that you, uh, obviously have stepped your game up since then. So hopefully,

tap, tap, microphone is on. Thanks. Uh, looks like it. But we also did an interview. You might not remember this. Our first interview was 2010. I do not remember that in Cleveland, Ohio. Do you remember, Do you remember those guys? Oh, wow. Wow. I remember that suit. Don't hate the game. Hate the Taylor.

That thing needs it cut. As May 25th. Yeah. Trill this camera. Oh, there we go. May 25th, 2010. I just started in Cleveland. I was like, I think it was, I started in Cleveland in March.

So I was two months in and I was already like revealing to my boss that I was a huge wrestling fan. Why do you have a black eye? Uh, What did I have a black eye? I don't know. I always wrestled very physical. So like stuff happened.

You know, I expect people to hit me. That's just the way I worked. Like I almost needed you to have like a physical presence on me so I could sell it better, you know, if you're going to do something. I'll probably, you know,

regret that later. But I don't know how I could forget that. Look at that handsome guy in that photo. How could I forget me? Yeah, and I'm also in that photo too. I had this ridiculous style back there where I thought wearing a cardigan with a tie was cool. Dude, everybody wanted to pull up the cardigan.

Everybody wanted, they see Josh Hartnett wear a cardigan one time with the fucking beanie. And they, you know, you want to be Josh Hartnett. But we can't be all a cardigan. Love me, love me. Say that you love me. Wow. Scotchy, scotch, scotch, scotch. down into my belly.

Scotch? Drin scotch? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the brown. Yeah, you can tell it scotch. Very clear. What are the memories you have when you see that World Heavyweight Championship?

Oh, man. The first one that comes in mind is right after WrestleMania the next day, we were in Phoenix, and I did a tease with Sina, and then I was supposed to be off. And then Tuesday morning, I get a call. I'm still in Vegas because I was there. I had just proposed to my ex-wife now. But

anyways, I was off and they called me to come to, well, no, go to Las Vegas for the thing. And they had an idea. And so they were taping Smackdown at that time. Yeah. And they were taping it there. And then it was going to air on Friday. And I got to the building early. And I go stand outside Vince's office. Chris is in there, Edge is in there, John Laurenitis is in there, Vince is in there. And I can just hear Chris yelling because like Chris and Edge just had that epic. It was a great heavyweight championship match at WrestleMania two nights before. And then, you know, obviously like wherever they were heading, the plans shifted. And so they got me waiting the hallway.

And I still to this day, don't know. This was like, oh, like if they were just fucking with me. because I just hear Chris yelling and yelling and yelling and, you know, he's always professional, but, like, I still think that in the back of my head, they're like, hey, let's fuck with the rookie a little bit and, like, put him out in the hallway. It's like, because, like, why was that I in the meeting at all? Anyways, we get in there and Chris says, you better not fuck this up. Great advice, right?

Wow, yeah. You know, I took him in his word. And so it all worked out great And like Chris did the thing where he he like took his shoe off a little bit before the gut ridge power bomb and the shoe went flying into the audience and That was something that he wanted to do. So I appreciate both those guys and I had matched with Randy Orton after that. It was awesome Worked with Big Show. So many times I worked with Big Show what I loved working with him I could just be like, we do live events, and I could just kind of like be an idiot. Like I can remember this one time at Fort Myers.

My uncle was in the crowd, and I really looked up to my aunt and uncle. And they had a beer. And so they were sitting in front row because I got them seats. And so like I'm selling on the outside, like working the crowd. And I take their beer and I take a big swing of it. And show already knew what to do. Like I hop up on the apron. I got my back to him.

I'm just talking to the crowd. As soon as I turn around, he just punches me and goes everywhere into the crowd. Chokeslam matches over. Like, sometimes that's all you need. You know? So I always remember that. He will always give me shit. He's got a bad knee.

And I blew it out during that heavyweight title run. We had did this certain spot a hundred times. And for some reason, one night, when he called the spot, I just stopped short. He was like, take out my knee. He was expecting me to do the front, the front chop block that I would do. And I just stopped short and I kicked him right in his knee for some reason. I don't know. And he always gives me crap about that.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, show. Please forget me. Please. Is there truth to that scenea didn't want to put you over when you won money in the bank? Oh, yeah. He absolutely refused. refuse to do it.

But he told you that? Or was just like, was that the original plan? Was the original plan for you to win? He, he didn't tell me that. I was told that was, that was what happened. Like, because the original plan was I was going to beat him Monday night on Raw and not do the tease. But, like, I'm a young guy. I mean, I've been there for a cup of coffee.

So what are you going to do? Wow. But, like, I'm not the only guy he's done that, too. He did that throughout his career. I was surprised to see what happened with him in truth lately because usually he tried to take that glory, but I feel like this time he's the one who said, we better go with truth and get him back here.

It really does feel like on the John Cena retirement tour, he's like doing a lot of unselfish things. I don't watch anymore. I just paid attention to the true stuff because that's my dog. You don't watch it all anymore? No, no, I've seen enough for us. matches. So you're done. You've retired from wrestling. Retired, baby. Hall of Fame. I used to say before I would go through the curtain and grill,

I was like, you want to be in the Hall of Fame? Like right before the music would hit, like that would just be my mentality. Like, you know, so. So you're, you're done, done. Because we know how wrestling retirements work. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm definitely driving up the price. So, you know, never say never. Okay. So never say never. Yeah. What, led to you deciding you wanted to retire? You know, I had done it since I was 2006, dedicated like a lot of my best parts of my life to the sport, roughly 17, 18 years.

Very grateful, very grateful. Had a good gig for most of that. And blessed to have done it because, you know, pro wrestling is very tough to get into when there's literally hundreds of thousands of people who want to become pro wrestlers and it's growing every day. I just wanted to, like I said, I don't watch it anymore. And so I think for me, like I had accomplished everything that I really cared about and wanted

to move on for the longest time. I always were like, what am I going to do after pro wrestling? What trade do I have? And this is a great story. I wrote with Dutch Mantel for years, and I'll put winning the World Heavyweight Championship up there with riding with Dutch Mentel. It was that important to my career, like the things that I learned, the things that he taught me, and just his fucking funny phrases. The guy has just a way with words. He could insult you, and you're like, thank you, Dutch.

But he was always like, he was always like Jack. It always calls me Jack. Jack, whatever you do from here, you got to use what you did in pro wrestling at the WWE, the way they use you. You got to use that background to, and whatever you venture into next. And if you think about it, like, that advice always stuck with me. You're like, okay, I could be a salesperson because I can talk on the mic in front of live people or I, you know, I can be endearing and be vulnerable at the same time so that could help me

with, you know, something else. But pretty much with pro wrestling, like, you're a professional driver. Like, you are gone Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and then you're home Wednesday, home 36 hours, and then you're back out on Friday. And every single one of those days, you're in a rental car and you are driving town to town, making the town. And so that really stuck with me. And it kind of like influenced me to go into the,

truck driving business because I'm already a professional driver. I used to say, I told Vince this once. I was like, the wrestling I'll do for free. You got to pay me for the driving. And so it kind of let me do where I'm at now and I'm excited about it. So you got a trucking company with the greatest name ever. I think I'm witty. It's pretty good. Like if you like a haul and oats music, I mean, what else, like, what else you can call your, it was either hauling oats. Your company is called Holland Oates. Yeah, with an apostrophe, L-I-N. You know, we got our motto is making your dreams come true.

Who, who, who, who. A lot of singing in this interview. Yeah, you know, the scotch has me feeling very good. It was either hauling oats or it was going to be go truck yourself. I do like the anchorman reference with the scotch. Scotch, scotch, scotch, down into my belly. unique New York. The arsonist had oddly shaped feet.

I wish I could pronounce as sharp as you. Are you actually driving the trucks? Right now, you know, like when you get into a new industry, you got to learn the business. You got to learn the ropes. Like how can I train, you know, my drivers if I don't know what to do. So I'm in very early stages of it. I have two trucks right now. I got one driver and one and then I'm driving the other one.

And so we're kind of learning the ropes. And like there's a little bit of regulations that come along with, you know, driving. It's not CDL, but there's a lot of DOT stuff that you have to do. And so what are you hauling other than oats, of course? A bunch of bullshit. It's like warehouse to warehouse palleted, you know, crates, palleted tagged in. And so it could be anything. Like I hauled a forklift the other day.

You know, it's paper cups are in the truck right now. They're going to be dropped off tomorrow. You own the trucks? I own the trucks, yeah. So, you mean, you could start any business. Why trucking? You know what? It's, you have a great interview with Mike Keota coming out soon.

And he's kind of the reason why I got into it because I met his buddy like 10 years ago, 12 years ago and his buddy is very successful at trucking and his buddy lives in Tampa now. And so I kind of found my position like, what am I going to do? And I always say this, like, America needs more apprenticeships. Like, we need to be apprentice. We need to work with someone who's done it and to learn the ropes. And then you can really kind of make it your own. Like, less universities and the high tuitions. Don't get me started. But anyways, I kind of found myself in that role where he was like, hey, let me show you the ropes and what to do and like get started. and I'm very grateful for it.

And so I had that opportunity to learn from someone who's done it for years. Like, this guy's got 100 trucks, you know, so like, who better to learn from? Do you feel like you, there was a moment where you stopped loving wrestling? Absolutely, absolutely. I'm very jaded from my exit at AEW. Like, I'm very proud of the stuff I did there. But, like, at the same time, I find myself questioning right now. I wish I would have just stayed in MMA at some point.

Like, Inner Circle was one of my favorite, like, favorite things to do in pro wrestling. I love those guys. JAS, Daddy Magic. I mean, I just really loved working with Chris. I think he's like, he's number one on my Mount Rushmore, Chris Jericho, like, because he can just constantly reinvent himself. And he can not only do that, but he can, like, see what he has around him. And he knows how to elevate us and, like, to bring it up and, like, make it look good. good like Chris Jericho is the reason why that purple hat was so over what do you mean it was it was his

like intuition we um uh did that backstage promo and it was it was live to the crowd and where i first said i like this hat and the crowd just popped and once he heard that pop that's all he needed to know he is fighting for his life in that promo to not to not break character He's looking at the camera like, well, I do have a way with words. I will, you know, give me some credit. But, dude, I had so much fun. You got that purple hat over. You know what's cool is like I'm an undefeated MMA fighter, but like my wrestling

character at AEW was almost kind of comical. Yeah, you were a little goofy. Yeah, I was allowed to be goofy because like Chris would always like put me in a situations where I could look tough again. But like, I could be, I could be funny. And it's like, if you know me, that's my real personality. I like to fuck around. bullshit and drink scotch.

So when did you stop loving what you were doing there? Or just loving wrestling in general? It was right after we did the Vegas was at the stadium stampede. No, it was like the second blood and guts. The second blood and guts we did in Vegas

and it was against Daniel Brian and Cesarro and those guys and then Sammy jumped off the cage. My contract, my first contract with AEW was up. And after that, we were like the negotiation process was very one way. And I could tell that, well, anyways, I always find a way to say this every day. So I think everyone should too say fuck Tony Kahn. I could tell that he didn't want me there.

He offered me like a year and a half. I was like, bro, I just did stadium stampede twice. Like, don't act like stadium stampede and put AEW on the map. I was in the debut episode. I was the big spoiler. And you offer me 18 months after all that. So it was that in the way that he started running the business that it really, like, he wasn't a professional. Like, we, like, after all the punk shit that went down, the boys got together and we had a meeting.

And this was the boys only no office, right? And we're all in like stings in there, show. Jericho, Brian, Mocks, they're all standing at the front kind of like talking us through this shit. And low and the hole who comes into the room storming in, daddy's little billionaire. And he's like yelling at us because I think it was Daxon, Cash, Cash and Wheeler didn't want to come in. They didn't like the storyline, so they refused to come to TV that day. And he was like, listen, I'll put you in a six man, six minutes before the show, and you're going to do it. And we're all just like, all feeling disrespected.

And I still did this day, wish I would have stood up and said, you know, a lot of things. But like, you just told Sting that you're going to put them in a six man in six minutes, but then you're going to honor him for his retirement. we were all, we became his little playthings. We had to wait outside his office. His storylines were very good at debuting, but he can never carry anything through. And it got to the point where, I'm carrying on, but it got to the point where I couldn't tell him anything.

He couldn't take criticism. He was fucking up. And we were all just having to deal with it, you know? Like, we all had blood, sweat, and tears, put into that company. We were all there at the beginning. Like, we all had our careers behind us that helped build that company. And then we all had to just sit side by side and couldn't do anything because he wanted to run it the way he wanted to run it. So you chose to resign, but it puts you in a spot where it's like, if you don't resign, what do you do with your career? Why did you decide

to resign? Yeah, because I, like, I didn't know what I was going to do next. I mean, I will say that AEW paid well. And so, like, I resigned to, like, give me more time to figure out what's next. We negotiated the contract a little bit longer. But the writing was on the wall. And I could see that from the way he treated me. Like, even, like, when we were doing, like, it was like me and Daddy Magic and Jeff, and we were doing that little threesome we were doing.

We had a little stint against Billy Gunn and his boys, the tag team. And we did that like wrap off, you know, we went out and wrapped in the ring, which is, I mean, who doesn't want to see white guys rap on television? But like, it's Daddy Magic. So you're going to love it. You're going to tune in. Right before that happened, like the beat started. And all day, Daddy was like, I'm going to forget. I'm going to forget.

I was like, dude, it's just a promo. Just remember, like a promo. And he turns to me and goes, I fucking forgot. And so I said, like, the first word that starts his little. lyrical conquest. And he had it from there. But, oh, man, I loved working with those guys. When you left AEW, did you know what was next this time around?

No, no. I left AEW. My shoulder was banged up. I was selling my house. So, like, I had, like, I had so much on the plate. Like, I had just got divorced. I just stopped pro wrestling on TV pretty much. And I had to like sell the home that I lived in for the last 13 years.

So it was it was quite the fucking mountain that I had to climb. I feel, I feel good that we're on the other side of it now. Yeah, what got you through that? That's a lot to be dealing with personally and professionally. Scotch. I got, I got two great kids. I love being their dad. So like I really stick my teeth into that.

And then, you know, I was very blessed. I got great family, great parents. I didn't have this great career by myself. I had obviously a lot of support that I could lean on and very grateful for that. Men, the only thing worse than losing your hair is waiting forever for it to grow back. That's why you need Hems. You can start seeing your hair grow back in as little as three to six months. Hymns provides you with convenient and quality access to a range of hair loss treatments that work all from the comfort of your couch.

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The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You mentioned a few times this interview. You were undefeated in MMA. Undefeated. Did I say that? Undefeated. I've never lost an MMA.

That's some scary shit right there. Is MMA still in the cards for you? No, I'm retired from MMA. You know, like your body just has a window. And I can tell how my body reacts to stuff now that I just can't train that's required. you have to train in MMA like your backs against the wall like you got a gun to your head like this is everything if you're not training like that you're going to go into that cage and you're you're going to get hurt right that's why i'm undefeated because i trained very hard i had great coaches that pushed me very hard um but like i know it's up

even though i still like to spar i'll still go in like spar it's great hindsight being 2020 do you wish that you would just continue with MMA in 2019? I do. I do. I mean, I was, I made, I had a great year in 2019, and then I had one fight in 2020, and then one fight in 2021. And, like, wrestling really took over. Like, I really gave a lot of time to AW.

That first, that AEW dynamite that you were on. Yeah. It was October 2nd, 2019. Yes. And then two weeks later, I had my third fight. You know. I wish I would have went better. It was the one that had the no-d-Q.

They said, I need them in the nuts, but the guy was acting. He did that in another fight. But it was a great time. I had a lot of opportunity. Honestly, I wish I would have got an MMA when I was 34 and not 37. What about if you got an MMA when you were 24? You know, if you, UFC being what it was at that point in time, what if you had got in instead of going to WWA?

I credit a lot of my success in MMA to pro wrestling because if you can go on live television in your underwear and do the things that's required to be entertaining and pro wrestling, you can do anything. You can do anything. I'm not nervous about anything because I know I've done that. And so like fighting another man in the cage, it's scary at first, but once you get used to it and they close that door, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. I remember the first time, the first fight, I hit a huge elbow on a guy. And I'm in the middle of the fight, and I go, ooh, that felt good. Like my inner voice, I was like cracking a giant egg.

It was like very satisfying. I'm sick, but, you know, it kind of takes that to be successful. You took a little bit from what you learned in WWE and you applied it to your MMA career, especially with promos. Yes. Oh, my gosh. The best time to give a promo is after you just got done fighting someone, if you want. Sure, sure. It's probably the worst time if you lost.

Yeah, there was something about it, the adrenaline. And, like, I always saw it, like, that was a fighter's moment. That's like the collateral. That's where, like, okay, I'm getting paid this much. But if I create this moment with this interview, then I up my, I up my worth with it. So I always like planned. Like I had shit run down every time. And it kind of just depending on where the interview went.

The one in Chicago, I could have like went so hard on Chicago. They were booing me because I thought that I held on to the choke too long. But really the ref was breaking the guy I was choking out. He wasn't touching me. So I wasn't feeling anything. Anyways, they were booing me. You know, I could have said like, hey, are you mad because he looks like your wife? Are you mad because your quarterback's name is Mitchell?

It was Mitchell Tribusky at the time. I'm from Oklahoma. I can't pronounce shit, all right? Trubusky, there I said it. You cut the rock hard promo. Yes, yes. Rock hard Jake Hager. I'm rock hard with emotion right now.

Aren't you happy? I'm rock hard with emotion, yeah. A couple hard dicks just sitting right here doing an interview together. I mean, your name is Richard, right? Sure. My real name, yeah. I'm sorry, I'm not funny. But that was a great interview.

And like, Jericho always went up to me. He was like, cut that interview again. That was always like his like, well, motivation for me. Like you got scouted when you were still in school, right? When you were still in college, like they were already aware of what you could do. And WWB was talking to you, right? Yeah, yeah. I met them.

I met Jerry Briscoe and Jim Ross, like my sophomore year in school. Did Jim Ross just love you because you went to the University of Oklahoma? Yes and no. You know what he really loved? He loved my roommate, Dusty DeVorechek, who was an NFL Chicago bear, a defensive lineman, too. We were in the same class. We lived together.

That's kind of how I met. Jim was through him. He was recruiting Dusty very hard to go into the WWE. And Dusty was destined for the NFL. fell. So Dusty had long, flowing hair. So he kind of just looked like the pro wrestler part. I was kind of skinny and I need to get a little bit more, a little more cut. He's big, but he ain't got no cuts. What did you, what weight did you wrestle at in college? Heavyweight, yeah. So what was your normal weight for a match? My freshman year for football, because I went there for a football scholarship. I got up to 293. I was the most I ever weighed. And then like, heavyweight. What position are you, 293? defensive tackle. You got to be 290 pounds if you want to play D-TEC in the NFL.

I could have used a little bit more speed, but, you know, wrestling, the heavyweight weight limit is 265. So you wrestle at 265. You were dominant in college, right? Dominant. Two-time All-American. One time, All-Time American. One-time All-American. You were just American,

American American. I missed being a two-time by one match. I got beat. So did you think at that time, I mean, you're getting heavily recruited by WWE, but did you think like, what if I took this into MMA? Did you think about that at that time?

No, it's funny is like, I can remember my senior season, and there were guys who were starting to do jujitsu because we were off-season, but we'd still come in and work out, we'd wrestle, and, you know, just less serious stuff. And guys were like doing jujitsu.

They were putting on the geese in the wrestling room. And I was like, what, what is this? What is, I had no idea what it was. And so this is like 2006. So like, it was like Chuck Liddell versus Randy Couture, you know, Tito, I can't believe it. Anyways, those big fights. Yeah, big fights.

Tito guy Medsker at that time. Yeah. Yeah. And so we would, we had just started to get together like, you know, and do the pay-per-view watch parties and whatnot. But, like, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know what Jiu-Jitsu was. I didn't know why they were laying on each other like that.

I was like, this isn't wrestling. Yeah, like that era, like Rampage Jackson was in that era. Like, those guys at 205 were, they were running the division. Yeah. And so, like, to me, I'm very grateful that I went pro wrestling first because you need a name. You need a name. So it helps with the fight. Because you want to eventually, like, everything is pro wrestling.

You want to promote, right? Even if you're fighting, you want to promote. And since I had the wrestling background and I had a little bit of a name, it helped me. Like, I didn't have any amateur fights. I went right into professional MMA, which is wild. No one goes from high school to the NFL, you know, in this very similar skill set. If I think so, but I'm just kind of talking out my ass. a lot scotch in me.

But I imagine when you decided to leave WWE, and we'll get into that, but when you decided to leave WWE, UFC probably caught wind of the fact that you wanted to do MMA. Was there an initial conversation with UFC? There was a big time agent that I

spoke with in 2014. I can't remember his name. I went to a UFC Orlando pay-per-view, and I'm Like, I'm, my college football coach is, works for UFC now. Like, so he's good friends with Dana.

And they, like, I sat right by, like, right behind Shaq. Like, I had great seats. And I got to, like, meet Dana and whatnot. And then after that, I met this agent. And he was like, you know, like, Brock had just started doing it. And Brock was really the idea behind it. Because, like, I got, I saw how he, he came back to wrestling and then made him a bigger star. And I'm like, what if I do that, you know?

And I wish I would have done it sooner. I wish I would have done it in 2014. It would have, but like I didn't know the path. When I first decided to do it, when I left WWE in 2017, I called my friend Josh Rafferty. And he was always kind of, I met him through Dave Batista. And I was like, hey, Josh, who was Josh, who was Dave's MMA coach?

And he was like, oh, that's easy. It was me. And like I had a lot of beers with this guy throughout the years. And I never knew he was an MMA because he didn't put it out there. He was very humble guy. And we would just hang out and have a good time. And turns out Josh Rafferty was on UFC contender number one, like the season that built the UFC. So he, we started training together and I wouldn't be here without him, 100%.

Was your decision to leave WWA? purely that you wanted to get an MMA? It was contracts again. I felt disrespected from what they offered me. They offered me like half of what I earned that year. And with pro wrestling and here's some advice for some young guys, like, if you want to make sure a company is going to use you and use you in the right way, then you have to make them pay you because then you become an asset.

If they're not paying you a lot, they can use you whatever way they want to. So I felt like I needed to stand up. I knew my value. And it's scary. Like I can remember like six months after I left them and I'm training in MMA wrestling Indies. And like I had just a whole month of Indies canceled on me. And I'm putting my daughter to bed at night.

She's like two years old at the time. And I'm like in tears, I'm like, how am I going to fucking pay the rent? You know, like I got to train. I got to do all this. And so. It was a lot to handle, but like, you know, going through stuff like that really, like, makes you who you are. To catch 22, though, because in order to get paid, you need to be valuable.

Yeah. And in order to be valuable, you need to get the opportunities. Yep. So if you're standing up for yourself and saying, I'm not going to work for less money, if they don't consider you valuable, they'll just go, well, see you later. And that's really what I come to realize to you with pro wrestling, which I love it. I had a great career. I was very blessed to have the opportunities that I had in it.

But in pro wrestling, your hard work doesn't always determine your success. And this is why I kind of wish I would have stayed with MMAs, because my hard work would have 100% directly contributed to my success. There's politics, you know, the audience of won. Like, I feel like the hat could have been way bigger, but he didn't like me. Like I pitched an idea. I think this is great. And like I wanted to turn into Groot from Guardians of the Galaxy where I would say I like

this hat and everybody in JAS would know what I'm saying. I'm not saying I like this hat. I'm not saying I am Groot. You know, they would just like, you know, play off of it. Yeah. That's good. Dude. Yeah.

But did you pitch this? I pitched it. Yeah. I pitched it. Well, I'd be in. You can do this entire interview with you just saying, I like this hat. I like this hat. for a good time.

I like this hat. We're doing a scotch commercial. BKFC brings in a lot of big names. Would you do bare knuckle? I spoke with the owner to do that. David Feldman? Yep. And, you know, at the time, I was very into AEW.

And so, like, I wasn't really into, like, I, going to a bare knuckle. fight is awesome awesome summer rays with the other bare knuckle promotion and she's doing great yeah she's doing like the interviews there yeah yeah she's so hot yeah yeah i said it um but like it's fun to go to a bare knuckle to see the blood flying like that and like and those knockouts are quick yes yes and that and that's the thing with them that's like the whole excitement behind it like i've seen bare knuckle boxing i couldn't imagine doing bare knuckle mma though that's just seen You told me off camera, you're like, I can't even do a thumbs up anymore.

Yeah, I have, I got some nerve damage in my, in my, in my shoulder here. Hopefully it's going to get better. Thumbs up. Thumbs up. Oh, man. Gun. Oh, no. Yeah.

So I still got like full mobility with it, but like, you know. Can you still grip things? I mean, like, weights and. Are we going back to the rock hard conversation? Wow. Hey. Yeah, I still have like full strength in it and everything, but like straightening it. Yeah, that looks painful.

It's not painful. It's like numb. And so it's, you know, what I had a great career almost 20 years. Like it takes a toll. Like when I got out of college in 2006, I was like, I'm done. I'm going into finance. I'm not doing anything more athletic. Like I thought my body was done then.

Turns out like, you know, don't let your brain tell you what you can. can do because you can go more. You can go farther. This match you had when you won the money in the bank briefcase at WrestleMania 26 was a 10-manent ladder match. Do you remember everybody in that match? Yes. Give it to me. All right. Matt Seidel. Yes. Evan Bourne. Shelton Benjamin. Yes. MVP. Yes. Matt Hardy. Yes. Um, Christian. Ziegler.

Where am I at? I mean more. I should have been counting here. I think you have three more? Uh, Jack Swagger. Yes. Did you say MVP? I did say MVP.

Then you got, I think, two more then. Three more? Three more. Um, I'm going to give you a hint. Yes. He's from Scotland. Oh, uh, Finley. I think he's from Ireland.

Uh, well, When I first got into WWE, I had the pleasure of working with fit, and I was so very green at the time. And this is when he used the shaleli. And I always knew if I had a good match with him, if he was happy with it, how the shaleli felt at the end of the match, because he could place it perfectly where it doesn't touch you. And then sometimes it kind of connects a little bit.

And you're like, oh, okay. Oh, man. A lot of times I knew what had happened, but, uh, you know, it's all, it's fun stuff like that, you know, for the boys. Listen to how stacked this match was. Jack Swagger, Shelton Benjamin, Christian, Kane, Matt Hardy, Drew McIntyre, Coffey, Kingston, Evan Bourne, MVP, Dolph Ziegler. A bunch of Hall of Famers right there.

Wow. Yeah. Going into this, how much of lead time did they give you that you were going to win? So it was on Sunday. I think they told me on Friday, maybe, maybe a little bit earlier, maybe the week before. And did they tell you the plan of like, are you going to win it and you're going to cash in the same week? No, no. They didn't know when the cash in was going to happen.

I'm glad I did it before they started doing the old Damien Sandow. You don't get to cash it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of criticism around your World Heavyweight Championship win. How did you deal with it then? And 15 years later, how do you deal with it now? I mean, I'm on a list, a very elite list of World Heavyweight Champions. I don't really care what people think. Hindsight is 2020. Like, I never got into this for, I got into this for me. I don't, like, I'm glad you guys like me. I don't care if you hate me. It's like I'm not going to sacrifice. my happiness, they'll worry about that stuff, especially in this day and age with social media. It is what it is.

I'm a world heavyweight champion, whether you like it or not. Two-time champion, ECW champion, and then world champion, world heavyweight champion. What did the ECW title mean to you when you want it? It was very cool because that was the first one. I was so sorry you had to hold that ugly belt. That version of that championship was. It sucked to travel with it. It was so fucking heavy.

but that was when I first learned kind of like what a really good match was composed of and that's when I first heard the big pops as we call it in the business, sorry, playing footsie. That match with Matt Hardy at the Royal Rumble. Like we had some great spots. We had worked together before so we had good chemistry. Matt is the first ballot Hall of Famer

so he already, you know, he took care of me and made me look strong and knew what to stay away. from and stuff like that. And like it's incredible when you're in there in a championship match on a paper view and you hear the crowd erupt like that. It's like, you know, oh, very, very vindicated because you know like you're doing it right. How much different do you think that run might have been had you already had the knowledge from working with Dutch?

Like Dutch gave you so much knowledge, right? When you were working with him and we the people. I feel like that made you so much of a better wrestler. I love Dutchman's Hill, Dirty Dutch. I call him poopie. Love you, poopie. Why do you call him poopie? It was a story, and he's got amazing stories.

Him and Jimmy Hart used to call, or Jimmy Hart used to say that to him. He was like, I love you poopie. Like, he used to call Dutch poopie. And so I started, I took that from Jimmy Hart. And I was like, I got to call you poopie now, too. Poopy. And he calls me poopie too. And Kelly Kelly, her nickname.

is poops. I don't know if you know that. She's about to be on the show soon, so I'll have to bring that up to her. Yeah, call her poops. Are you the only one that calls her that? Like, I think me, Creambo Cologne, you know, there was a couple of us because she would ride with us. Why is her nickname Poops? Is there more to this story? I forget the story. I think it's a great nickname. It has nothing to do with shit or a toilet or anything. I'm glad we're clear on that. You're welcome, Kelly Kelly. Just a fun name, like you'd call someone like pooky. Yeah, she calls me poops.

It's just like kind of like one of those endearing gimmick words that you can, it's like, poops, come on, poops. What do you think the biggest thing you learned from Dutch? Oh my gosh. One, how to prepare for what's after wrestling. Like I said, like he told me whatever I did, I have to use. pro wrestling in the next thing I'm doing like some form of it find it and make it your own um but like just like really how one how to get somebody over like this guy dutch has done everything he's done

the promotion he's done the riding he's done the wrestling you know and he's done it in multiple territories Memphis Puerto Rico WWE and like his knowledge 40 years Maybe going on 50 years now. He's old as fuck. Sorry, poopie. He's got 50 years of wrestling knowledge. Like, he knows how to write a storyline. He knows how to get somebody over.

Like, he always would tell me a story about when he first work, Scott Hall. Scott Hall just came into a territory. And Scott was like, what do you want to do tonight? And so Dutch went out there and he cut up. a promo. And I've done this exact same match on multiple times. He cut a promo, got the crowd all hot at him. Here comes Scott. Duck clothes on schoolboy, one, two, three. Scott rolls out of the ring. He's fucking Dutch is just fuming in the ring. And he grabs him like, he's like, get back in here. You can't do that again. So he's like, of course, he gets back in there. He tries to cheap shot him

this time, like throw towel at him something, ducked it, roll him up again, one, two, three. crowd erupts again, even bigger. They don't even know who Scott Hall is at this time. I think it was in Minnesota. I think it was for Vern. And then he gets on the microphone again, does the same thing again, pisses the crowd off. Scott comes back.

This time he does get the cheap shot in. Gets a little heat on them. So the crowd's all booing now. Scott turns it around, hits another move. One, two, three. Scott's over now in that territory. It's like, to me, like, I love that about pro rome. wrestling. It's like we can go in there and be physical and we can do all the acrobatic dives and

flips, but like you got to tell a story. And I think that's what Dutch really taught me. It was like, like, you got to be vulnerable. Otherwise, people won't care. You can't just be a tough guy. You got to be vulnerable as a baby face. You got to be vulnerable as a heel. Either way, you got to be vulnerable. And it was like little nuances like that and just like stories that he would tell me. I don't know. Like, we. road, we, I didn't want to ride with them. I was riding with Mike Kyoto and our truth and I was forced to ride with him, um, uh, because he's old as fuck. Did they basically say you guys are paired together so you should ride together? Pretty much, yes. Yes. Some chemistry. Yes. And it was

great. I'm so glad I did at first. I didn't want to as a course with all great things. And, uh, he needed someone to drive him. And so he would just sit there and play music, which he has a great taste music, so I wouldn't complain about that, but he was just complain about my driving all the time. All the time, he would complain about my driving, which at the time wasn't the best. Hopefully, I've gotten better since I'm a truck driver now, but. Did you have the intention of getting we the people over as a catchphrase? Yes, and this is a great story. So I win the elimination chamber, and they're trying to put some heat on me, and they're like,

All right, let's come with a mouthpiece. And we just so happen to be in Nashville where Dutch lives. And I'll be honest at the time, I didn't really, I didn't like know that much about him. Of course, I heard the name, Dirty Dutch Mantel before. I knew he was from Memphis, you know, kind of. But I didn't know everything. Triple H brought him in. Triple H was a big fan of his.

And so we bring him in, and this is before Raw that night that he comes out. And we're like cutting promos. and he did one and we're like, okay, do this. And then he did another one, do this. And then when he did the second one, no, this wasn't written. It wasn't planned. He just felt it.

And he said, we the people at the end of it, they're like closed the interview. And everybody in the room just knew. Like, oh, shit. And like, this was originally my storyline that I pitched to them. John Piramini and I wrote it together. And, uh, what was I going to say? Anyways, we like, after that, we were like, okay, that just felt right.

And we would go out there at times and we'd do live events and Dutch is great at promos. And he just has a way with words like, like I said, when he would say some, you know, pretty insulting things. And at the time, still now it was very, um, kind of like scandalous a little bit to be talking about these things. And then still at the end, no matter how much they would boo us, they would say, along with us, we the people, at the end. And so we knew, like, okay, this is big. And I don't think that was my point earlier. Like, when I pitched the, when I pitched the angle, I was like,

if they go for this, this could be big. I don't think WWE really got on board with how big it could be until later down the line. You debuted in AEW and the crowd was chanting, we the people. Yep, yeah. I mean, like. Years later. It really shows you, and I wish I could have brought that back to AEW. It really shows you like, it wasn't me.

We the people is for the people. It's for the crowd. It's theirs. They took control of it. It went from an immigration heel storyline to something more powerful, something like the people. Like, everybody can stand up, like everybody in the crowd, like we're for them. And it really was cool to see how overnight Dutch and I could go from Heard's, to baby face with the Rousseff angle.

Like overnight, we're a baby face. As soon as Rousseff's music hit on that promo, we were baby face. Like in an instant. Did you know that was going to happen? I mean, we had a feeling, yeah, yeah. But his music hit and it's like, okay. Of course I was worried about it. Like all pro wrestlers want to be over.

But like I pitched the storyline to it. I wrote it. So I always knew like, hey, this is tantalizing. This is, this is, this is current. And like anything with pro wrestling, you got to have like a little bit of realism in it to make it better. Like it makes it more effective. It makes it more believable. And like it definitely allows fans to have more feelings and motion about it if it's, if it's current.

And so I jumped all over it. I'm glad they went with it. But they still kind of like put their thumb on it because, uh, you had Cesar to the mix, at which he just took us to the moon. We were on fire at that point. one of my favorite matches was the four, the four-way tag match had Mania in Louisiana, and it came down to us of the Uso's.

And we're two in the ring, they're in the ring, and they give their war cry, Oos! Oh, whole crowd says it with us, and then me and Cesar, put our hands on our hearts, everyone says, we thought people. And then we just charge and, you know, go into the finish. But, like, it was powerful. I wish we could have done more with it.

Do you have a single, coolest moment in wrestling that you go back to? Probably one that I wouldn't want to talk about on camera. Oh, boy. What about one in the ring then? Oh, man, so many, so many. I'm blessed to work with so many Hall of Famers and great people. That was one of my favorite moments.

Working with Ray Mysterio for the World Heavyweight Championship, we kind of had a couple good matches. I remember working with Taker and Mexico. city in front of 19,000 people. And I fucked up. He called his signature flying clothesline and the comeback, and I thought he meant for me

to close line. So we kind of double clothesline each other, and we're both laying there, and he's like, you got to know my shit, brother. So that's kind of what started the, me working with Ray, is take or stop

working with me. He was like, okay, you go work with Ray on this store. You had a mask off for a little while. You had Soaring Eagle. Oh my God, the Soaring Eagle. How amazing was that? It was certainly memorable. Is there truth to the rumors that that was Chavo Guerrero?

Number one in your heart, number one in your program, Chavo Guerrero. He did it for most of it, and he did it the best. It was amazing. He was not happy doing it, but he was amazing at me.

Why was Chavo Guerrero the Soaring Eagle? I think it was just one of those timing issues where we needed someone with experience. Obviously, he played to the crowd so well with everything. And he didn't have something going on at the time. And also a young guy, pair me with an older guy so I can learn and get a little wisdom from it. Chavo, thank you. you will always be my soaring eagle. And you're also the reason why I'm drinking scotch right now, Chavo.

Wait, why does Chavo make you drink scotch? Man, I forget. And you're all out. I'm sorry. I forget one, yeah, bartender, garson. Garson means boy. One European tour, everything changed. We went from drinking every now and then.

to drinking every night. And that reason was Chavo. Ooh, Chavo! You know, he was a veteran on the tour, and we had to keep up with him. Otherwise, we felt the wrath. So when it wasn't Chavo as Soaring Eagle, who wasn't? My personal MVP, he slater.

I got kids, man. he did it for a little bit and like I love you brother but you were no chavo so could people could tell the difference or you could certainly tell the difference but could people tell the difference in the way that the eagle act acted you know that'd be good uh we should uh watch some watch some film and go back and tell uh it was just like more than manuisms chabos were more uh larger than life slater get some charisma jerk leading up to Michael Cole's match at WrestleMania. You were his guy.

You were in his corner. Yeah. And it got, I mean, Cole had so much heat on him. Oh, so much. So much so that I think people forgot how talented he was on commentary and just treated him like the heel character that he was playing. You were a big part of that at that point in time.

But he also kind of made you like the punching bag. Like he'd cut promos on you even though like you were supposed to be in his corner. Yeah, I had Jim Ross put me in an ankle log. But like if it's all worth it if you get to take a stutter from Stone Cold at WrestleMania. If that's the payoff. That's the payoff. It was worth it for me.

Got a WrestleMania match out of it. And, you know, it's all part of her career. And like, like, this is something I learned from Jericho. You always got to evolve. And like I said earlier, you got to be vulnerable. So, like, if you do this big, tough guy, you can only do that for so long. Nobody wants to watch Goldberg now. You can't run a spot.

He sucks. Yeah, I said it, bitch. Oh, that guy carried away. You think Goldberg sucks? He can't run a spot. The only thing you can do is a fucking spear and get paid $600,000 for it. He's 58 years old. Then stop pro wrestling.

Stop coming in and taking our money. Sorry. That felt real. I'm not sorry. Anyways, what were we talking about? Talking about your WrestleMania moment, Jericho telling you got to evolve. Right. Okay.

And so, like, also I got to take a spear from Stone Cold. And then he drove the, yeah, I want to take a spear. My bitches take spears. Anyways, he drove the four-wheeler down the ramp. That was his big entrance. And, like, I waited until the last minute to dive out of the way. Like, he almost hit me. It was awesome.

Like, I, like, dove into some crowd. I broke some fan's phone. What? I knocked it out of their hand into phil and, hit the ground. Yeah. Yeah. I like jumped on the barricade, but like half of my body went into the crowd.

And there was this big buildup to like Cole slaps you. Like he laid it in on you too. Yeah. Yeah. He gets like a girl. Oh, wow. Who hits the hardest? I do.

I always enjoyed working with Seamus, even though it was sometimes difficult to put the match together. Like we could go out there and we could hit each other and we knew. So, you know, this is how we work. So where do you go from here? Like you've had this incredible career in WWE. You're closing the chat. Like, that's it.

You're closing the book on your wrestling career. That's it. For sure? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Feel good about it. Excited to move on. It's been a big part of my life. But I've also sacrificed a lot to have this time away from my kids,

so much time on the road. So it's really important for me. me to be a dad right now, be home. And it's a great question. Like, like, I'm trying to figure out. I think it's a trucking company. But, like, you know, you got to work hard every day and figure it out. You're with your kids at, like, a pretty formidable time in their career or in their life, right? You're with them. How old are your kids? 10 and 13. So 10 and 13. Like, those are really important years. Yes. Yes. And it's just a few years from now, they're going to be off to college or whatever they do and like maybe out of the house.

Yeah, yeah, it kind of goes through a phase where like, like once they get so old, which scares me to death, like you're not their friend anymore. You're, you're their parent, you know, and then they come back when they're older. I heard a great quote because I have two kids as well. Yeah. My daughter just turned two. My son's eight months. I heard a great quote that's like you've got 18 years to basically make them want to be your friend

when they have the choice. Like they don't have a choice up to that point. Right. But after that, they have a choice whether they want you in their life or how much they want you in their life. And my daughter's too and I think about it all the time, right? Yeah. I have so many moments where it's like, I think about like, I don't want to miss this thing that I have right now. The moment's so fleeting.

And it's a powerful emotion. It really is. It really is. And it's hard to explain unless you are a dad or are a mother. And like you think about it, my son was eight when I left, uh, w-db-e-so like half of his life. I was on the road. Yeah.

You know, so I mean, these sacrifices we make to do this. Yeah. Everyone says, oh, man, make the most of this. Like, you got to appreciate this.

And like, yes, I can hear those words, but that is so hard to like actually do in the moment. Like, oh yeah, when you're, when your,

your son is eight months. Yeah. And you got to pack a bag just, to go to the grocery store. It's hard to appreciate, you know, or like if he woke me up, he didn't sleep through the night, you know, type deal. Like, is he, how does he sleep? He sleeps amazing.

Our daughter did not sleep amazing. So I feel like we've been blessed with the second one. That's been great. But like, once you have the second one, you kind of like know a little bit too, like, oh, he's going to be okay. You're right. I'm going to sleep. I'm going to get my sleep.

But someone's saying like you got to appreciate it. like someone's saying like, try to, I'm going to pour this water into your hand, try to catch the water. And you're like, you can only have it for a second. Like, and you realize how fleeting. Like you have this moment with a, with someone who's eight months. But you're going to snap your fingers and then they're nine months. And then they're a year. And then they're two years.

And then take me back, man. Take me back. Yeah. Right. And like, you know, there's that, there's that moment when you board a plane and you take off and you can't get Wi-Fi to like 10,000 feet. And you're just like, you know, you're in, you're in that moment, in that present moment. Sometimes I'll just, like, go on my phone, like, scroll through photos and videos.

And I'm like, oh, my gosh, you was so small. It's a baby. That's so awesome. And then you look at them now and you're like, where did time go? Yep. And then you'll have a grandma and grandpa, like, in a couple years sending you pictures. I was like, oh, remember this picture that I took on my phone? I'm glad that you're there for the kids now.

Yeah, I love it. Oh, I've always been there for the record. But you're not on the road as much, just what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. Like it's not like what city am I off to now? Yep. I would rather drive anywhere. I would, like, I only want to get on a plane if I have to.

It better be a bad bitch in the Bahamas or something like that. A quick flight from Florida. Bahamas. I'm excited to see what you do with Holland Oates. Yeah, it's going to be great. I got a lot of help. like, I'm going to work hard. That's all I know how to do is, like, I will outwork you.

If people live in the Tampa area, will they see trucks that say Holland Oates on the side? Yeah, I drove the truck here. You drove the truck here? Well, like, originally I thought we could do the interview in the truck, but you need all this lighting. And it's a little humid down here. We got to go take a picture by the Holland Oats truck. I actually, I didn't drive. Ah, that would have been great.

What a tease. What a tease. What a tease. Thank you for coming here, even though you didn't come in the truck. And I'm going to ask you the question I ask everybody at the end of every interview. And I wasn't doing this actually the last time we did that interview in a dark alley. Gratitude means so much to me. I start every day saying out loud three things I'm grateful for.

And my wife, Rachel, and I do it before we go to bed every night. So what are three things in your life you're grateful for right now? Yeah, that's a great question. I'm grateful for my kids, obviously, number one. They mean the world to me. Everything. Once you become a dad, everything becomes about them. Yeah, that's amazing.

Two, I'm grateful for the career that I've had. Like, I just was inducted into the Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame. So very grateful for that. Congratulations. Thank you. And then three, I'm grateful for my family because, like, everything that I have, I learned from them, like, how to work hard, how to be kind. how to work smart and like how to you know sometimes you know do the dirty stuff that nobody wants to to get ahead and so um my mom my dad

my older sister uh my aunt my uncle um my cousin ryan the reason why i ever started wrestling is because i idolized him you know i'm like so so many people that are so important in my life and uh just grateful that they want to be in my life. Well, thank you again, man. Hey, all we can do is keep going. You've got you another scotch. It's that time. There we go.

Thank you for checking out this episode with Jake Hager, Holo Notes. What a name for a trucking company. And if you haven't yet, hit a close line on that follow button on Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening right now and snap a screenshot and tag us. So we know you're listening.

He's at Real. Jake Hager. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And I'll wrap this up with one of my favorite quotes ever. It's from Tim Notkey. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Be great and be grateful, my friends. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got the referee from your childhood. Mike Keota back of the show on Thursday. We'll see you right back here for that one. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes.

So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef?

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