Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Jay Lethal On His Infamous WOO Off With Ric Flair, Black Machismo, His Phone Call With Macho Man Before He Passed (Interview from July 2021)

Episode Date: July 6, 2023

Jay Lethal (@thelethaljay) is a professional wrestler known for his time with IMPACT Wrestling, Ring of Honor and AEW. He joins Chris Van Vliet in this interview from July 2021 to talk about how he broke into the business, the difference between working hard and being lucky, his time in Impact Wrestling as "Black Machismo", being Ring of Honor Champion, working with Ric Flair and the viral "WOOOO off" that they had, the phone call he had with Macho Man Randy Savage before he passed away and much more! Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV at http://thecoldplunge.com Quote I'm thinking about: "In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen. Chris Van. Believe. Oh, man. This is happening. Jay lethal, ladies and gentlemen. Oh.

Why are we giggling? What's going on here? Oh, man. We're giggling because I wish that, I wish that we hit the record button sooner because I was so, like hypnotized by your that whole shelf behind you and I wish that we caught that on camera but I should I should have to tell you guys about it the second this zoom meeting open I should

have just hit record look at all the things behind you like this is oh that you know these are things that they my gear lady made those those things behind you she can't make those somebody made these I'm sure that's true okay so this This here is my gear. This is where I put all my gear, by the way. I hang it up in this closet area. Let's see if I get my fingerwork. This is a ring of honor jacket.

This is a robe that she just made for me. Gear here. Boots. This here is a poster. The UFC company decided to work with Impact Wrestling when I was there. This was a tester. And then they, you know, they didn't like it. So then they stopped.

So that and I got this one here for my for my birthday My best friend got this picture of me putting Rick Flair in the figure four He painted it painted but that should be a much larger image You putting Rick Flair yeah you're sure The entire mural in your house Sure you're right Yeah I think I'm gonna tell my best friend you made a mistake you know Yeah be like it was a bigger it was a nice gesture but right

The thought the thought was nice nice But that's where it ends. Look, I don't have a gear lady making me things. You could. And I'm sure it'd be cheaper with those... The emmese? Those things you got behind it. Man, that is incredible.

You got four of them. Thank you. That's very kind. You know, I'm not a... Oh, my God. And you've got the lamp. You've got the leg lamp. You've got a leg lamp.

I'm going to grab it. You're the first... first person who's noticed. It's very fragile, by the way. Oh, okay, so there is a big discussion in my family on whether or not he said

fragile, but the F was cut off, so there's no reason, or he said radially, because the F was cut off, so all he saw was the R. So it was impossible for him to read the F, but there's a big debate in my family on whether or not he says fragilly or radially. If the F was there, we think he would have said fragile. But I think he couldn't

see the F. If you go back and watch it, the F is cut off of the box. So I think it's radially. It must be Italian. Well, it sounds Italian. Wow, you've got leg lamp. I lived in Cleveland for five years. That was the first American city that I lived in. And the Christmas Story House is in Cleveland. So they do a lot of things in Cleveland surrounding a Christmas story and the Christmas story house, which has been turned into like a museum now. Are we becoming best friends?

We are best friends. It's the scene in Stepbrothers. Did we just become best friends? Yep. I'm so pumped to have you on the show. I've been trying, I've been talking to Ring of Honor for like a year to make this happen.

And here we are. Okay. So, you know, I feel like I just want to talk to you about everything other than Rigabana right now, especially since I set a line and you knew where it was from. Me, my brother, and select few wrestlers have, I want to play my ringtone for you and I want to know if you know where it's from. Oh, my goodness.

But in order to do that, I just have to disappear for like three seconds. Would you mind? And like people are watching, this is live here, guys. What could, and as J. Leithel sprints off, what could this ringtone possibly be? I was less than three seconds. You seem like someone who, man, all of my friends, if you give them a line, they're like, oh, that's from this movie. That's from this movie.

The pressure is on now. If I don't get this, the interview is over. I feel like you're going to get it. Maybe. Okay, you ready? Mm-hmm. Here we go. I don't know if you can hear it.

What is it? It's from Beetlejuice. Oh. It's from Beal Juice. I haven't seen Beetleju since I was like six. Ah, okay. No worries. But I would have got that. I hope I didn't disappoint you too much.

You didn't. You didn't. Oh, my goodness. Because in the Beetlejuice movie, it's only in the movie for like 10 to 15 seconds. You don't get a lot of it. So like some people have no idea, but some people, they go right away. That's Beetlejuice. That was a deep cut. That's what that was.

All right. Very deep cuts. My goodness. All right. We're just taking this. Everywhere but wrestling. Who needs to talk about wrestling? There's more to life than wrestling, right?

What has been keeping you busy over the last 15 months? Because it hasn't been a ton of wrestling. It hasn't been. Twitch, Twitch, I've fallen into the Twitch. I streamed on Twitch, video games, anything on Twitch, yeah. Minecraft, right? I don't, I'm not a big fan of Minecraft. I just threw that out there.

Okay, okay. I saw you, you were on a Minecraft. stream, though, I believe. Was I? I don't know. Like someone made me? No, no. I saw, I was on your Twitter and someone had tagged you and you retweeted it.

I was Colt Cabana. Cole Cabana. Colt Cabana said, join us. Among us. Among us. Yes. Among us. That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Among us, great game. Have you ever played Among us? I played with my nephews who are twins and they're 10 and they were teaching me everything. And I kept saying, Suss. Yes, yes, that's a great word. Great game of deceit, you know. You know, there's probably about 10 people.

One of them is the imposter. You've got to figure out who it is. Great game, great game. Easy to pass the time. So what's the go-to game for you right now? Something called Fall Guys. A game called Fall Guys. Very easy to play, hard to master.

That's the best. The best games are super easy to get, but it's just hard to become really, really good at them. Those are the best. Yeah. Well, how difficult is it for you? when your world is wrestling for, you know, almost 20 years. And then it comes to a screeching halt.

So here's the thing. And I'm sure I'm not the only one in the wrestling business, but I really put all of my eggs in the wrestling basket. Sure. I didn't divvy my eggs up. I didn't have a backup plan. There's no plan B for me. It's wrestling or it's nothing.

And I hope that it's nothing because I don't want to live on the street. So because all my eggs were in the wrestling basket, there was sheer panic in my life. I was terrified because this pandemic had the ability to end wrestling for a foreseeable future.

Not just one particular company, but wrestling everywhere. So I was terrified. Terrified, that's an understatement. And then slowly but surely having these shows with no fans became a thing. Yeah.

which, I mean, only a wrestler would fully grasp this, but wrestling hurts. No matter what they tell you, and no matter how long you've trained and how long you've done this, it hurts. And the way we get around that is, believe it or not, the fans give you this boost of adrenaline. Adrenaline is the most powerful drug in the world. In fact, depending on what shows you watch, like Darkson, side of the ring. Other wrestlers go through great lengths to find another drug like adrenaline,

but there is no match for it, okay? You are invincible in the ring, and then wrestling no longer hurts until you're back in your hotel room, and then you're like, oh, man, that thing. But there's nothing like it. So when the fans are there, you're like, I can do this forever. This like, but when they're not there, you realize exactly what you're putting your body through, and it is not fun. But here's a thing. Chris, because I put all my eggs in the wrestling basket, I, you know, whether there's zero fans or 100, I got to be wrestling because it's what, you know,

I just positioned my life in a way where it's wrestling or it's nothing. So whether there's zero fans or 100 or thousands, I got to be wrestling. So I'm fine with doing it either way, whether it hurts or not. But it's just easier when there's people there. And luckily, people are coming back. I feel like it's Christmas coming up. I mean, it's July.

It's right around the corner here, best in the world. Crowds are coming back. Chris, I can remember Christmas Eve. I couldn't even sleep because I was so excited about what was going to be happening. You don't get the open presents and all the joy. That same feeling, I swear, is the way that I can only describe the feeling of knowing that fans are going to be back. Wrestling is not going to hurt.

And I get to perform in front of people. It's just, man, I can't tell you how excited. I am. Did, did COVID give you some perspective, if all your eggs were in the wrestling basket, did it give you some perspective to go, man, what do I do when I can't wrestle anymore? It did. It did. And I've struggled to think of other things that I could possibly do. I've got one or two things working in the background that I'm not going to mention. But yeah, it definitely opened my eyes, especially when I thought there was a chance that this COVID could end wrestling as we know it for the foreseeable future.

Yeah. Just sheer panic in my life. Every wrestler had to be panicking. Well, this is the thing that happens, not just in wrestling. This happens with all athletes across all sports where you're, you know, you're 18, 19, 20, 21, trying to make it, trying to, you know, make a name for yourself. And you don't think about, oh, well, what am I going to do when I'm 32 or 37 or 42? You know, you might have had a great run, but.

that's only a small little slice of your life. Correct. Correct. And we don't want to think about it. And that makes it real. It's like in wrestling, we get to make up this world. We go through the curtain and we get to control everything that happens once we get through that curtain.

You know, if in life you were this guy who got bullied and pushed around, when you go to that curtain, you're the macho man. You know what I mean? So to think about literally for you. Yeah, broileries. where are my glasses? Oh, here they are. Oh, man.

I should put my glasses. Oh, but on. What are we waiting for? Come on. Yeah, why have you been doing this? Why have you been doing this the whole time without those put glasses on? Where's black machismo? I don't want to talk to you anymore unless you got those glasses on here.

A little side note, you know, I just, this keeps going everywhere but wrestling. But that's the whole point. Yeah. You know, every time I see any image of me doing the macho man, because he'd always do show his teeth a lot. Yeah. And all the images I have, I have this gap here. But I got Invisaline, and I'm getting the gap close.

Oh, your teeth look. Perfect. Look at those. If you go back and look at all the pictures, I got this big gap in my teeth. Yeah. And I think I was the only one who cared because I asked several of my friends. Should I, I'm thinking about, no, don't do it, blah, blah. But it's all I would see when I look in the mirror.

you know. That's all that matters. That's all that all that matters is are you happy when you look in the mirror? Right. So now I'm going to show my teeth any chance I get you. Yeah. I was a fellow

Invisaline wear. Oh, no way. Well, I had braces when I was 16 until I was 18. Okay. You know, I wore my retainer and everything, but your teeth still shift a little bit. So I wore, I only wore him for like nine weeks.

I had Invisal line for like nine weeks and just straightened out a couple little things. I would have loved to have had braces, but unfortunately my parents had six kids. My dad was the only one working. It was literally like, oh, your teeth hurt. Well, you're fine.

Go, go, get on. You know what I mean? You have five siblings? I do. And they always make the joke. My parents must not have had a television. Where were you? The youngest youngest in the middle.

I share the middle. I share the middle with my older brother. So do you feel like maybe you had middle child syndrome? Because that's a thing. It's very much a thing. I, no, I don't feel like that. I don't. And I actually feel bad for people who don't have a big family. So many of my friends are only child. Like we had family movie night, family bowling night. We'd sit at the table plate cards. You had built in friends. friends. When you couldn't go out, you had even, like, to not have that, I couldn't imagine it. I couldn't imagine it. I just had one sister. So I don't, I don't know. Just an older sister.

Were you guys close? Not really, if I'm being completely honest. Four years older than me. And when you're a kid, four years is like an eternity. Yes. And trust me. I'm, you know, I'm eight and she's 12. I don't know what she's going on in her life. I don't really care either. Well, getting into the wrestling business, I, you know, my brothers and my family loved wrestling. I wish that I could have gotten into the wrestling business with my younger brother and we could have been a tag team, but he liked basketball or more. It's probably better for his body anyway. But I'm sure you were in other sports as well.

It wasn't just wrestling, was it? Just wrestling. Wow. So when your little brother's playing basketball, you're not playing against him? So everybody, I feel like even my sisters, but the, that's just a joke, but all the boys came before me, played football, and it was just assumed that I was going to play football. I remember once I got high school, the coach walking past me in the hallway and go,

hey, practices such and such. I go, whoa, nobody even asked me. I wasn't a big sports fan, especially since my brothers were so good. I never won anything, even when it came to sports video games. They were just so, like, sports wasn't my thing. I played the saxophone. I played the saxophone for about 10 years. So when the coach, that year was not so fun for me,

because when the coach found out that I was going to be on the field, but not in a uniform, not being a football uniform, but in a marching pan uniform, he was not happy. And he would make snide comments, but it didn't last too long. But, yeah, I just, sports was not a big thing for me. believe it or not. I joined the wrestling team, and I was only on the wrestling team for like half the year because

it wasn't the wrestling that I thought it was. I grew up you know, macho man Randy Savage. I want to be like him. There were so many rules amateur wrestling. Like when you got the guy on the ground, you're not allowed to lock your hands. Like, am I not trying to put in this guy? Like, what's going on?

You can only like, you can only do moves with one arm, like a full Nelson is illegal? Yes. Yeah. I was like this is not what I signed up for. So that didn't last long and I stuck with the music for a long time until I realized that rustle I had a chance to wrestle I went to a wrestling show with my buddies this little small time show and uh at intermission they said oh we're going to have a contest and whoever wins a contest we're going to train you to be a wrestler for free and I won the contest what was the contest uh they brought you in and the whole day

they showed you four things in the wrestling ring And whoever did those four things the best, they would pick three winners. And if you were one of the winners, they'd train you to be a wrestler for free. They showed you how to run and hit the roots. They showed you how to take a fall, land on the ground. There was like a, I think there was a jumping one or who had the best endurance or whatever. And then there was a promo one where you had to cut a promo. And I remember I was only 16.

So when, no, I was 15. I was 16, turning 16. And at the end, they picked three winners. I wasn't even one of the winners. So I remember my dad took off work to take me to this. And he sat in the back the whole time. I'm thinking, I didn't even win. I got to walk back over to my dad.

He took off work. So right before I got to my dad, they made another announcement. They said, you know, we weren't going to do this because he's so young, but we're going to make an exception and add a fourth winner. And it was me. I couldn't believe it. Wow. It's pretty much the story of my whole wrestling career. It's just one lucky win after another. I feel like my whole wrestling career can be, it's Charlana Chocolate Factory, the movie.

You know, I won the golden ticket. I got the chocolate factory. But I mean, yes, part of it is luck. But it's also a lot of like hard work and determination and right place, right time. People don't want to look at that, the hard work. They don't realize that's not, it doesn't suit their story. They're just like, this guy won a contest, he got lucky. Sure, you know, you got to have the skills and everything to back it up when the time is right. But I do attribute most of it. I am a pretty lucky guy. I am.

Right, but just because you won a contest and got free training doesn't mean you have this great run and impact wrestling and a great run and ring of honor. This is true, because what isn't discussed too much is after six months, that training school closed down. So then I had to go pay and search for other training because my training wasn't complete. So then, you know, I still went through all the things that people go through when they actually pay because I did have to pay for additional training. But they don't care about that. They just, the story, the silver lining that, that, you know, that headline is it's, he won a contest. He trained for free. Was the promo that you cut a macho man, Randy Savage promo?

It was not. It was not. You wouldn't know what I think helped me was I think I was the most athletic one there. I really think so. From all the years of not playing football. From all. Yes, I wasn't, no injuries or any.

And you know, another ball thing is, so four people won. I'm the only one wrestling today. Wow. Yeah, those four people stopped wrestling about two years after, maybe two, three years after they had won. I think there's a lot of people and you can. certainly relate to this. There's a lot of people who say they want to be a wrestler and even go so far as getting trained. And I think for a lot of people just going to wrestling school,

just being able to say their friends and family, I go to wrestling school. I think that's enough for a lot of people. It has to be. So I'm a trainer. I train people on how to become a professional wrestler. I have a school in Tampa. Yeah. And so I'll get by the way, because there's going to be people watching this that want to train with you. I have a wrestling school in Tampa, Florida. It's called the Russell Factory. Sorry, it's called the wrestling laboratory, not factory. Russell Lab for sure. I can't believe I said that.

Well, anyway, getting to my point, there's so many people who join the wrestling business because they want to make it to the WWE, which is, it's so tough. Some of them I have to explain, you have to be okay with knowing that you'll go through all of this training, all this hard work, this hurts, it doesn't feel good, you're going to leave here, your neck is sore, you've got to be okay with knowing that after all this work, you only get one match in front of like 10 people. If that is okay with you, then the wrestling business will work. But if you're going to shoot yourself from the foot, if you're like, yeah, I'm going to make it to WV because it's, there's no way to guarantee that. And then if you do all this work and you don't

make it there, then it's human nature to look for a reason why it didn't happen. Instead of it just, you know, it wasn't in the cards. And then you know, the worst thing it would be, oh, I didn't make it there because of your training. What didn't you show me that was, whoa.

You know what? That's never happened, but I'm terrified that it will someday. You know what I mean? No, it's clearly all on them. That's how wrestling is. Wrestling is not a team you know, sport. It's human nature you need someone to point out and go, that is why that didn't happen.

Sure. That's just natural. But I mean, as soon as you can get over that, the better wrestling will be for you. At what age did you determine I am going to be a pro wrestler when I grow up? I think it was always there. My oldest brother got hurt in the living room with my grandpa wrestling. I can remember in school, all of my reports. Anytime you got to pick the topic, it was wrestling.

In middle school, I remember going to lunch, and I didn't even eat. Me and my buddies would bring our wrestling magazines. We'd never go up to get food sometimes. We'd sit there in the table. Oh, did you see money and I brought? Did you see this? I think in those moments, I already knew that it would be tough to pursue it, but that was my ultimate dream.

Somewhere along the way, my back plan was going to be being a carpenter like my dad, because sometimes I go to work with him, help them, and I had my own tool set. But I think that the moment that I realized, okay, wrestling is the, that's full steam ahead, is when I went to that show with my buddies and they said, we're going to be hosting this contest in a few weeks, and if you win it, we'll train you for free.

There was never a second, there was never a doubt in my head that I wouldn't win this contest. I knew for a fact that I would win it, And this would be my big. So like from that moment on is when I knew I'd be a wrestling. Wow. It was always a thing in my head. I, like, this is going to be my dream.

I did start developing a back plan, like trying to be a carpenter. But the moment that happened, I was still in middle school. I was about to go into high school. Yeah. So, yeah, that was, that was a thing. That was it. And I remember my mom, when I came home to tell my parents, I remember they sat in the living room.

My mom's face didn't seem, she seemed like she wanted to say no. But my dad, who loved wrestling, I remember his face like, I almost remember him like nodding. And my mom's whole thing was, of course, they don't want to see their babies get hurt, you know? Sure.

But never once, they say no to me. Never once. My parents were like super supportive. My brother wanted to be a rapper, and they were fully, behind that. Like, they, no matter what you, as long as you had something that you wanted to do, they would support you. Yeah. So they never told me no, even though I think my mom did want to say no, but I remember their faces. My mom looked like she wanted to say no. Well, I don't think it's any

mom's like favorite day when their son or daughter says to them, I'm going to be a pro wrestler, mom. You're like, I get sure. Right. Right. And you know what's wild is, you know, if ever get to a point where I have kids and they come up to me and they say I want to be a wrestler. Shockingly, it's not going to be a yes. I'm so proud. I think it's going to be same like my mom. Are you sure that's what you want to do? That's not uncommon though when you've had a career in pro wrestling.

Like I'll talk to a lot of second or third generation stars and their parents are like, like I just had Ted DiBiasey on recently or Austin Gunn. And the parents are like, you really want to follow in these footsteps. steps. Like it's a tough life. As you know, it's a tough life. You want to know why? Okay, so here's my reasons why I would tell my kid, are you sure you want to do that? There's two reasons. One, I'm already a wrestler. So any second generation, you automatically compared to your mom or your dad, automatically. So right away, you're automatically not getting a fair shake because you're just instantly compared. That can be a blessing or a curse. They can get the doors open for you.

you were, it could not. And the other reason is, and it's the saddest reason, you know, there is a checklist in wrestling of all the things you need, right? You got to have a great body. You got to be able to talk. You got to have charisma. You got to be at a wrestle. You got to be too short. You got to be the perfect height. You got to be kind to others. All this, all this stuff. You can get all of those checks. You can have all of those things and still never make it. It's wild. There's like, this is just one, you've got to be lucky. So to have a son or daughter just gear their whole life towards this thing where at the end of the day, you really do need luck. It's just, it's, man, I would just try to persuade them not to, not too hard.

If they wanted to do it, I would be okay. But like I said, you can have everything you need and still not make it, which is the wild thing. But it's also, what do you determine to be success? For some people, it's working a few indie matches. For some people, it's main event at WrestleMania or nothing. Right. And those people get shot in the foot. Yeah.

Right? You're, oh, man. Because when you don't reach that, you never feel like it panned out for you. Yeah. Which is wild. Which is wild. I mean, if I couldn't wrestle tomorrow, I've had the greatest career that anybody could ever have. I feel I got an action figure.

I traveled the world. I went to another country and people wanted to meet. me like you've made it i was in a video game i mean i got to meet my idol i worked with them on paperview like i made it so uh yeah there's that it's pretty amazing i would imagine for you as a kid growing i mean you've had an amazing career wwee was probably a goal for you was there ever interest from them so uh i think working for the w w f or wwee For most of the people from my generation, that's why you got into wrestling. Of course.

And not just, you know, that is why you got into the wrestling. Most of us, along the way, your goals kind of change and you realize there's other things besides the WWE. Or for me, it was, I can make a living and not have to go to WWE. I didn't know that that was a thing. I didn't even know that that was probably. It wasn't. Thank God it is now. But, I mean, so there was a few times.

There was a little interest, but, you know, because of contracts here and there, it was never like a thing that I could pursue. And, you know, part of me thinks that it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I got to be, you know, hindsight is 2020. We don't know what would have happened, but I became the face of a company known around the world for its wrestling. I was a world champion. In Ring of Bonner, it's like you worked so hard and you got that big,

promotion and you got that corner office looking out over the water. Like, I got that promoted. Who knows what would have happened over there? And now that I have that promotion, why do you leave that, give that up to go try to, you know, like, I might as well have a big ring of honor tattoo on my back because I'm going to be there until I die. Yeah. You're the guy.

Like when people think of ring of honor, they think of Jay Lethal. And in wrestling, every wrestler is a dream scenario for them. them. And you can get that on some of the smaller indie shows, but it won't pay the bills. I have gotten that and I'm at a show that financially pays my bills. So it's a dream scenario. Like, I have won the lottery. I've got the chocolate factory. This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. And if you've ever been thinking of trying Blue Chew, how about your first month for free? Yeah, when you use the promo code CVV at checkout at bluechew.com, you'll get your first month for free.

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At what point in your Ring of Honor run, did you really start to bring that? did you bring it on yourself or did they bring it on you where you went yeah i am going to be the franchise oh that's a good question i feel like it was more so brought on onto me um that's a great question yeah i feel like it was more so brought on to me yeah in fact one day they i remember just hearing one day they started calling me the franchise and right away because i'm such a rustling historian douglas yeah i'm like he is not going to like that So I would have never come up with that on my own. But yeah, it was something that was brought on to me from Ring of Honor.

And even in the locker room, because, like, I hate anyone to refer to me as a veteran or like, oh, man, you're like the, no, man, we're all on the same playing field. We're trying to make this company and ourselves as big as possible. Yeah. So, but in the locker room, a lot of people call me captain. And I just think it's just, it's just. if they all had the vote, they'd be like, yeah, he should be the guy. Or like, ah, if we had to come together and make, who would speak for us, it's probably him.

I've been told that by so many of them. And I'm like, oh, no, like, I don't, that's not me. But yeah, so it's definitely not something that I said, yeah, I'm the franchise. Like, yeah, this is like, you know. But I mean, when you think about locker room leaders in other companies, you think about like, everyone always talks about the undertaker, you know, who's 50s. You know, you at this point, when you're being deemed the leader or the captain or the franchise, you're in your early 30s at this point. I know, I know.

Which is wild, too, to think about me being in my 30s. I remember when it feels like just last week or two weeks ago, I could always say that I was the youngest person on the roster. In fact, when I got to impact wrestling, I couldn't even rent a car. I was so young. And now to hear that I'm 30 something, it's like, oh, man, time really does fly. Yeah. Like if you don't live in those moments, if you're too focused on something else, these things just go by and you don't get to appreciate them.

I feel like I've appreciated them, but I really don't feel like I have fully grasped, everything that I've gotten to do yet. I think when it does hit me, my brain's going to explode and then I'll be dead. That's kind of been one of the silver linings of COVID is we've all had a chance to pause, especially in the world that you live in and the business that you work in, your city to city every single week. How could you possibly slow down and appreciate what you're doing when it's hotels and airports every single week? And COVID has been this great pause where you've been able to go,

I have a painting of me putting Rick Flair in the figure four. How is this my life? Right, right, right. Oh, man, that's hilarious. I mean, it's true. Those four Emmys you got there. Uh-huh, uh-huh. So you were like, yeah, so for some people, the thing is,

when have you made it? Because making it is different to everybody. Sure. So how many of those it take for you to realize? that you've made it. You had to get interviewed out. You got greedy. You got to get four of them.

Well, so, quick story here. I'm originally from Canada. Yes. So originally from Toronto. I was working in Cleveland. It's not easy as a Canadian or anyone from any other country

to work in America. A friend of mine got banned for that. So keep going. It's a huge process to get an 01 visa, which is what I was working under for my first several years, which is the alienation.

of extraordinary ability. That sounds amazing. So, yeah. So the thing when you have a visa is you can only work for the company who has sponsored your visa. So I can only work for CBS Cleveland, which was the company that sponsored my visa. That's where I was an entertainment reporter. But I was starting to get offers to do other things.

But I couldn't legally do these other jobs. So I reached out to an immigration attorney and said, do you think I could get a green card? And he looks at like my resume basically and goes, 60% chance. And I go, oh, that's goodish, right? He goes, anything over 50, I say we go for it. He goes, have you, what kind of awards have you won? Because it's all going to be about like, what have you done that you will be able to

take these jobs away from an American? So I said, well, you know, if I've won some of these awards, I've been nominated for an Emmy, he goes, yeah, nomination, that's okay. I said, but I'm nominated for two more Emmys in like two months. So you guys, if you win an Emmy there, you've got a really good chance to get this green. Wow. So I not only did, not only did I win one Emmy that night, I won two Emmys that night. And one of them was about a story I did about Gregory Iron, a wrestler out of Cleveland,

who yes, I'd fight having cerebral palsy. And so the fact that I was able to like tie my two passions together, broadcasting and wrestling together and win an Emmy for that. Now then you go, you go into the guy's office with your Emmys, slammed. them down on the table, right? So I'll never forget. I won those two Emmys on like a Saturday night in Indianapolis. And that Monday morning emailed the immigration attorney and said,

you'll never believe it. Not only did I win one. I won two. And he goes, let's get that application started and ended up getting my green card. So I don't know if that's a moment where I made it. But that was certainly a moment where someone who had a lot of power over the rest of my career, sitting in some random office in Texas, I believe, is looking at my resume and my application for probably like three minutes and going, do we give this guy a green card or not?

And that was a moment where I went, I've accomplished enough to at least stay here. That's tremendous. Wow. So that's, that was it for me. But what about for you? What's the moment for you where you go? I mean, and we've had a lot of time, as we just discussed, over the last 15 months. What's the moment for you where you go, huh?

I think I've made it. I know exactly when it was, exactly when it was. I got an action figure made of me from Impact Wrestling. My dad had it in his hand, and he said, there's so many people who don't have an action figure themselves. If you don't realize that you've made it by now, then you're crazy. And I go, yep, he's a lot. absolutely right. That was the moment.

Because it never dawned, believe it or not, it had never done. No one ever said that to me. I had no thought about what the crowning achievement is that would make me feel like I've made it. I kind of feel like I'd always made it. But I never thought of it. I never thought about it until that day when my dad held the action figure and he said, you know, you've made it, blah, blah. And I go, wow, you know what? He's right. But it's also, you know, it's also. the fact that it's your dad saying that to you.

Obviously someone that you have a tremendous amount of love and respect for going, hey, son. Yeah, look at this. Yeah, wake up stupid. You made it. How is this action figure not on display behind you? Come on. Actually, actually, it's, because I don't have many of them, obviously.

The one that I was talking about is at my parents' house. Okay. This one is actually my second one. This one's from Ring of Honor. the one I'm talking about. There's a lot of my things that aren't really my things, but they kind of belong to me, but my parents won't let them go.

So they're at their house. Like I've got a couple, you know, I threw the first pitch out. That was amazing too. When I threw a first pitch out, literally right before I was walking onto the field, all I could think about was,

this is what celebrities do. Like, what team was it for? I threw the first pitch out for three different teams. the White Sox, the Tampa Bay Rays, and then the Farm League. No, no, I did the Yankees spring training game and a Farm League in Vegas. Man, yes. And each time, especially the White Sox, they made a jersey for me with my name on it.

I can't tell you the last time I've seen it. My dad won't let it go. I live here in Tampa, Florida. It is not here in my possession because my dad won't let it go. He's got all the jerseys. I love that you have the perspective that you have, that you're able to look at these really cool moments in your career and go, that was cool.

Because there's a lot of people, and you know this, Jay. There's a lot of people that have those cool moments to go, yeah, of course. What's next? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And it's so sad, so sad. But yeah, I was literally. thinking, I said to myself, and there's been so many times where stuff like that is happening, and I'm like, they don't know that I'm just a wrestler. Like, they think that I'm like some big deal. Like, when we had the show in Madison Square Garden for Ring of Honor and the New Japan Joint Show, yeah. So first of all, I thought the only way to get to wrestle in Madison Square Garden, there's two ways.

One, you had to work for WWE. Or two, you had to fill out a janitor application, and then you could say you worked. Yeah, I worked for my business. That was the only two ways, you know. But because my face was on the poster, when I got there the day before, they brought me in.

Man, the social media people pulled me aside. Can you film this, film that? Then somebody came in nowhere and was like, I'm going to take you to this room where only a select few people have been like Mike Tyson and like they don't let just anybody in this room. I go, I think they think because I'm on the poster that I'm like a, they, they think I'm like

a celebrity or something. They rolled out the red carpet. There was like, man, it was incredible. And all I could think was I'm pulling a fast one over these guys because they think that I'm like this big deal. They're like laying out this, taking me to this room that. like, Miss McMahon was probably in that room countless times, but not a lot of people because

they don't allow people in that room. You've got to be a somebody. And I was like, this is unreal. But when it comes to Ring of Honor, you are the somebody. This is, yes, yes, but in my head, it's always, I don't know, not to downplay it too much, but I don't know, like, oh man, it's hard to explain. And then I was like,

after you know then you got to kind of play the part a little bit and I was like yeah you mind if I get that poster outside when you guys are done with it I asked if I could have the big poster outside Madison Square Garden and they were like oh yeah

no no problem hey get his name get his address down I mean and we'll send it to you and while he was writing my address down all I could think of was oh my God they just they think like this is this can't be real. They think I'm like some big star. They're just like what I felt like I could ask them anything and they would just let me have it or do it in that moment. I remember the lady said,

oh, just so you know, because last time we sent it to whatever big hockey player is, we had hockey here. And he was a little upset because, you know, when he got the sign, it kind of stinks because you have to remember this sign is outside. And I go, oh yeah, that won't, don't worry. That won't be an issue. I'm thinking, please, stop this. That ain't a big deal to me. I don't care of it stinks. So how bad did it smell? It didn't smell bad at all. I don't know what that guy was talking about. Sounds like people were pissing on his son.

Oh man. That was like one of the greatest experiences. And not to cut you off, but what made that moment for me, what made it was my very first wrestling match ever, my dad went. My mom, she didn't want to go because she thought I was going to get hurt, you know. Eventually my dad tricked her into going, then she loved it. My very first wrestling event, my dad was there, sat in the back, watched his son get beat up for like four minutes. The match was only four minutes. For the first six years of my career, he went to every show that I had. Even when Ring of Honor, because when I got to Ring of Honor, the first time I had to drive to the shows, but the first time offering me a plane ticket is that we're going to, we have a show in Chicago,

you made the list, we're going to give you a plane ticket. I go home, and I go home, my, I told my dad, oh, Ringabon is going to fly me. And he goes, well, what about us? I go, they're not going to fly you. He goes, well, we'll rent a car. We'll drive. I said, that's 16 hours. He said, we don't, we'll drive. Let's do it. I said, okay. And that became the precedent. Like, no matter where we had to go, whether it was a 16 hour drive or a two hour drive, my dad went to every show with me. So to have him see me, and sometimes, Chris,

they were the only ones in the crowd. There's been so many shows where, like, the crowd was my four family members, and the wrestlers would work just in front of them, and my parents would, like, they would give them the biggest reactions that four people could give, which was so cool at the time.

But so to have him see me in these small VFW halls, my very first match, and now he's in a big press box. Yeah. Looking down, sold out Madison Square Garden. I'm making my entrance with the world. Man, it was that, it is the greatest moment of my life. It's unreal.

Unreal. All of what you're describing here sounds like imposter syndrome. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure what imposter syndrome is, no. It's basically the idea of like, I'm here, but I don't feel like I belong here. Yes. It's just a matter of time until everybody else figures out that I'm not supposed to be here. Okay.

So that's wild that you just said that because I have done so many interviews where they asked me about what it was like my first time in Ring of Honor. Because I was there years ago and then I went to Impact Wrestling. But my first couple of years there was exactly that. I was terrified that someone was going to come figure out that I don't. I was wrestling with guys like Samoa Joe, C.M. Punk, Brian Daneson, all these legends. I didn't even, they were still training that I still needed to complete. That's why, because my school had closed down, remember?

There was still a lot of things that I don't know. When I sat down with a wrestler, I noticed that I wasn't coming up with any. They would lay the whole thing out for me because I wasn't that skilled. And I really felt like somewhere along the way, someone thought that I could hang here, but I can't, and I'm getting exposed, that every turn, it's just a matter of time before someone says, hey, what are you doing here? And then kick me out.

That's my whole description of my first, like, three or four years at Ring of Honor. It was unreal. That's crazy. It's called imposter syndrome. Yeah. But, I mean, it sounds obviously with what you've accomplished in your career, you've come to terms of the fact that, okay, I do belong here. Now, yes. Yes.

It sounds like it might have taken some time. And that's probably compounded when you go to impact wrestling. And when you were in impact wrestling, everybody was an impact wrestling. That roster was stacked. How do you mess that up? That roster was stacked. You're right. Kurt Angle versus Samoa Joe.

We had this great relationship. We did this, you know, we got brought guys from CMLL and New Japan. They had Okada there for crying out loud. It was unreal, the amount of talent there. And I'm rubbing elbows with all of them. I remember I went, Rick Flair had me come out to the bar with him to drink. I got to hang out with Kevin. Think about what you just said.

You're right to brush over it like it's nothing. You're right. When you came up with the Black Machismo character, what was the reception originally for that okay so i was i didn't want to do it originally um it was this impression was just something that i was always able to do and any time being in a locker room where you know if it got too quiet i would just bust out in this randy savage thing and uh one time kevin nash he just loved hanging out with the x division guys yeah there's another yeah i think it's because we laughed at everything he's the ex-division guys i think it's because

we laughed at everything he said. He had to, like, he's so funny. He's the funniest I've ever met in my entire life. It's like this dry sense of humor. Yes, yeah. And a lot of, there's been so many jokes that I can't repeat in public. But I remember one time he said to us, you know,

if you guys met me when I was in WCW, you would hate my guts. Because there was a lot of stories about he just didn't like the smaller guys. Well, anyway, he loves. hanging out with us and he heard me do the savage voice a few times and he goes yeah why don't you do that on TV that's hilarious and I go well no no I don't want to do it on TV my big fear was I would become a joke this would be funny getting into wrestling business nobody wants to be the joke everybody wants to be that badass world champion you know you want to be the stone code steve

Austin. Somewhere along the way, you realize, though, that not everybody can be that bad ass world champion, that Stonecoe of Austin. There is a spot for everybody. You just got to figure out what your spot is. If you're the funny man, you have a role. Like, there's a place for everybody as long as you realize that, because not everybody can be that number one. So he got me to realize that. I didn't want to be the funny guy. He helped me through that. Also, I didn't want anyone to think that I was making fun of matrimand, because I idolize. him and Rick Flair, if it weren't for them, I don't think I'd want to be a wrestler. Yeah.

So I was like, I don't want to make fun of him. So Kevin said, think of it this way. There's nobody talking about the macho man right now. If you do this, at least people would be talking about him. So if anything, you'd be helping them. And that logic was like, you're right. Nobody's talking about matron right now. So if I could bring any light to him, that would like, yeah.

And then I was like, all. for it after that. So it was all Kevin Nash's idea. Then he went to Jeff Jarrett and Jeff loved it. I remember them pulling me into the sound stage and they said, do your impression. And I would do it. They would play it back. And literally when they played it back, I was like, whoa, that sounds just, because I'd never heard it recorded before. That sounded just like macho man. They got such a big kick out of, man. It was incredible. And then that character lasted way longer than I thought it was going to laugh. Was there ever any pushback from WWE since that was their IP?

If it was, never got to me. Did you ever hear anything from his family? What a great impression. I became great friends with Lanny Pafo. So here's a Machimant story for you. I was doing these shows in the Midwest run by a man named Ed Schumann. and Ed Schumann, when I did his shows, he kept claiming to me, I know the macho man. And he's like, I know him, and I told him about you, and here's his number.

He wants you to give him a call. So I go, oh, man, that'd be great. So when I got home, you know, wrestling ribs were a big thing. So I thought, I'm going to call this number. Somebody on the other line is going to do a macho man. I can't be the own one who can do macho man. so I never called it. I ended up doing Ed Schumann's show maybe five, six times after that.

And every time I would go, he would say, Maltrowman said that you never called him. Like I gave his number, call him. I go, yeah, yeah, I get home, didn't call him. So then, like the fourth time, I go, okay, let me just call him so that Ed Schumann can stop hassling me and I can get this rib over with, they can laugh at me. So I call the number and I explain, you know,

Ed Schumann gave me your number. And the guy on the other line kept going, he kept going, is that right? And I go, yeah, and I'm a big fan of yours. Is that right? Yeah, and I've been doing this thing on TV. I don't watch much TV, but Ed showed me on YouTube. It's pretty good. And I go, yeah, I'm a huge fan of yours, man.

It's like, this is an honor. Is that right? Well, me and my girl about to go to get something to eat, I got to talk to you later. I go, okay. And that was like, so when I do the next Ed Schumann show, I go, okay, I talk to him. He goes, what did he say? I go, I felt like I was bothering him. I'm waiting for like, ah, ha, how he got to.

And that was it. He never said anything ever again about it. So then, like, three years later, I meet Lanny Poffel. Someone books me versus Lanny Poffel on a wrestling show. And he's such a cool guy. and at the end of the day, after I wrestled him, I pull him aside, I go, can I ask you something? He goes, yeah. I said, do you know a man named Ed Schumann?

He goes, oh, that's Ed Schumann. And as soon as he said that, my heart started pounding so hard. Like, oh, my God, I just, I said, okay, well, Ed Schumann gave me the number to Macho, ma'am. I don't have it anymore. But can you find out if that was really? him that I talked to. He goes, yeah, as soon as I get home, I'll, I'll, uh, give me your number. I gave my number. He gave me your email too. Gave my email. The next day, I had an email from Lanny Popple said, yeah, I just talked to my brother. He said, he talked to you once. He said,

you only called him once. He said, he gave Ed Schumann, uh, the number to give to you, and you only called him once. And I wanted to cry. I wanted to cry. I found the number. And I called him three more times, but every time the conversation was like 10 seconds because he couldn't talk. He was busy to him. And I was so mad. You have no idea. Like I just didn't believe that it was him. Otherwise, I would have asked, man.

And then he passed away. And you have no idea. Man, it was all because of people in the wrestling business, they play so many ribs. And I just thought I was protecting myself against, like, being made fun of. Yeah. There's no way to describe, Chris, how the feeling that I felt when I realized it was him, three times I tried to call and he was too busy to talk. But, like, I let that opportunity slip through my fingers because I thought it was someone playing a joke on me.

It was anybody's going to do any sort of impression for a rib. It's Hulk Hogan or macho man. So I completely can understand why you might think that someone was pulling a fast one on you. Yeah, yeah. But, man, when I said the name Ed Schumann to Lanny and he right away goes, oh, before he finished saying right then and there, I just felt awful that I didn't believe and I should have believed him. And here's the thing, Ed Schumann, he passed away too.

He was a great guy. never played a trick on me. He was always so nice to me. He booked me on his shows at a point where I was having this imposter syndrome. Like he was like there was no reason not to believe

him. But I didn't believe him. What do you wish? You could have asked macho man that you didn't ask. Oh man. There were so many things. So I enjoyed most of his heel stuff as opposed to

his good guy stuff. So I would have picked his brain. I wanted to become better at rustling. What advice do you have? I would have... There was one thing that I tried to do is I would have wanted him to hear me plan a match and tell me what was good about it.

No, don't do this. Why do you do it like this? And like, because the way his matches came out to me when he was a bad guy was so incredible. Like him, there's two people where I watched their matches. that I think they're geniuses, him and the other is Triple H. Like, they don't have bad matches the way it's from a wrestler's standpoint,

the way it's what we call structured and the way it plans out. It's always to me flawless. So that would have been the main thing I would have asked them. Can you hear me plan this match? And can you tell me what I shouldn't do and what I should, like, man, and then I would have passed on all the fan questions. What was it like working with Sensational Sherry? I was a big fan.

of sensational Sherry. I thought she was beautiful. One of my favorite moments was when she interviewed there was a storyline where if Warrior won the belt, Savage wanted a title shot.

So he sent sensational Sherry to ask her, if you win, can you give macho man? Man, there was so many, like, oh man, this was my childhood. And bad guy Savage,

there was one thing that I was super impressed. that and I tried to do incorporate little things like that when I was a bad guy. So he would make Elizabeth stand in a specific spot. He would like visually pointed her, you stand here, you know?

But then when things weren't going right in the ring, he would jump out. She'd be standing where he told her to stand, but he was mad that she was standing there. And he would make her stand in a new spot as if like, dude, you told her to stand there. What a dick. Yeah.

Like, you're like the worst person in the world. like little things like that that made you hate them and it wasn't because of what was happening in the ring it was because it was happening outside the ring and man yeah I just I missed the opportunity to talk to him well look I know you're beating yourself up about this

but there's not too many other people in the world whether their profession is wrestler or otherwise who can say they've had any sort of phone call with the macho man Randy Savage so I think that that's like a badge of honor you should be wearing it is and later on

in life, someone explained it like this. Think about all the people who get into basketball, let's just say, because of, who got into basketball a long time ago, because of Michael Jordan, let's say. Okay, what are the odds of them becoming a successful basketball player, so slim to none? And then put on top of that, the ads of them getting to work with Michael Jordan, the person who helps shape their love for, like, it's like capturing lightning in a bottle. They said, you've captured lightning in a bottle. You've got to be okay with that. And yeah, I am. And, I mean, it's not. just with Macho Man.

It's with Rick Flair. Yes, yes. And you're now a meme because of this moment with Rick Farr. Those memes, you know, you know Colt Cabana? Of course. Yeah, he was on the show last week. Colt said to me, could you imagine if you just got 50 cents for every time that meme was viewed?

Just 50 cents. I said, wow, you know what? I didn't think you're right. half a cent. Yes, just half a cent. Right. Right. Yeah, that, that meme. I remember people in high school that I hadn't talked to for years texting me the meme. Like, oh my gosh, this is wild. Was the plan going into that segment that you were going to have the woo off and do what you did? Okay, so no. If you were to ask me what the scariest moment of my life is, it's not any kind of near-death experience because I've never had any near-death experiences.

There's one time where, you know, I went through turbulence and the plane was like terrified me. But scariest moment of my life is that segment with Rick Flair. And it's because Vince Rousseau, when I got there, said, and he's, you know, from New York, bro, I got this great idea. You're going to have interaction with Rick Flair. You got a promo, bro, with Rick Flair. And of course, little kid me is going jumping for joy.

Yeah. He goes, but the problem is he goes, bro, Rick Flair won't let us write anything for him. He goes, when a wrestler goes to the ring for a promo, they always have bullet points. They know, but he won't let us even write bullet points. So you got to go to Rick Flair and ask him what do you want to do in the promo. I go, okay. So I go to Rick Flair. And I go, so we have an in-ranged segment today.

And he goes, yep. I go, Russo told me to come get with you to go over like what we're going to, what happens in the promo. And like it was a movie. So I'm standing in his locker room. That's important to remember. Like it was a movie, I go into his locker room. I say this. And I go, Vince Russo wants me to get with you to figure out what we're going to, how the promo is going to go.

And he stands up, comes near me. He goes, I don't talk about my wrestling promos. I'll see you out there. And he slaps me on the shoulder. Then he walks out of the room. First of all, why are you walking? Like, this is your locker room. Why are you walking out?

But it was like a movie. I'll see you out there. Then he walked out of the room. And in that moment, I kind of was like, is he joking? But like, I hope he's not because I had been at Impact Wrestling at that point, Chris, for six years. Never have they given me a chance to cut a promo in front of the crowd. live on television. I was doing the macho man stick.

So at that point, all my promos were filmed in the back, in the locker room, pre-taped, and let's just say they said, okay, in your promo, you're going to say one, two, three. In the macho-man voice, if I said, okay, one, two, seven, they thought it was funny. They didn't even care that I didn't say one, two, three. So I never had to, like, hit these marks or, like, hit these bullet points or, like, make sure I say the right thing. I can say anything in the macho-man voice. neighbor, one take, you're good. So now, from going to that to now live in front of the crowd, live on TV with Rick Flair, it was terrifying. It was the scariest moment in my life.

Scariest moment. And literally, we couldn't, I didn't know what was going to happen. Like nothing was written, nothing was planned. Remember before I went through the curtain, my hands went numb. That's how like nervous I was. And Simon Diamond came up to me, He goes, what, like, you look so, like, what's going on? You look so nervous and scared. I go, I am. He goes, what you don't understand, Jay, and maybe this will make you feel better, is you're only in this position because you have this killer Rick Flair impersonation backstage. He loved it so much that he wanted to work with you.

That's why this is happening. So don't do, don't go out there and do anything you wouldn't do back here. Just do what you're doing back here because that's why you're in the situation you're in. and that made me feel a little bit better. I was like, yeah, okay. So then did you know to do a Rick Flair impression before that in the chat with Simon Diamond?

Yes, yeah. Okay. I knew that I had to go out there and pretend to be Rick Flair, then he was going to come out, and then who knows what was going to happen after that. That's all I knew. And that was how we had like four promos together,

and every one of them was the same way. Go out there, start doing a Rick Flair impression, and then we'll see what happens. And it's terrifying. It was so terrifying. Wow. But it panned out, and I couldn't believe it. But I was so scared because it's like I don't want to say the wrong thing.

And like I don't want to mess up. And Rick Claire is like the best promo guy in the world. Like what am I supposed to do? But it luckily worked, it all worked out. That whole woo-off, none of that was planned. It all just happened, which is wild. Wow. Yeah.

None of it was planned. What's the best meme you've seen for the woo-off? The one where it's like when your dogs, when you're walking, two dogs are walking and just us wooing back and forth at each other. That was the, that's the best one I've ever seen. Oh, man. If, I mean, if you could somehow make that an NFT, you'd be rich. Oh, wow.

I imagine impact wrestling. We don't know. Right, right. But Impact wrestling should make it an NFT and give you guys a little bit something there. Right, right. Wow. Yeah, that NFT, you're right? I mean, I don't even know what an NFT is, but.

Yeah, but hands down, that's the scariest one of my life, Chris. Wow. What a story. Yep. And then there's a couple, like we mentioned, after one of the days he said come out and have a drink with me and I don't drink much but hanging out with him there's so many things that he told me that I can never repeat obviously but seeing him in the bar he really is a ladies man and the

the ladies just love Rick Flair it's wild um so to see him in like his describes it as he holds court at the bar. That's a good way to describe it. That's a good way. Yeah. They just, they're drawn to him. It's wild. And I've seen it firsthand.

They're just drawn to him. I mean, he oozes charisma. He does. He does. There's a lot of charismatic people in the wrestling business. But he is on a completely different level. He is. And his career is like, it's like a new resurgence now too because he's in so many

rap videos and there's so many like it's amazing he's got these Car Shield commercials. This is like life after Rick Flair but there's no you're still Rick Flair but life after wrestling for him is pretty sweet gig. Oh there is a large contingent of wrestling

fans who have never watched a Rick Flair match. I mean think about it. If there's people that are in their 20s or maybe even younger they're aware of who Rick Flair is. They're aware of the significance of him but they may have never seen a match. You want to, I've never even thought of that.

There's a lot of, this is going to blow your mind. There's a lot of people that've never seen a rock match. A lot of people that don't even, you know, the rock to them as an actor. Right. I can't even begin to imagine that. Wow.

That kind of like, it's like, does not compute, you know? How does that possible? The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup.

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Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Let me ask you this. Yeah. If there's someone watching this that's never seen a J. Lethal match for whatever reason, what match do they need to go look up on YouTube right now? Okay, well, it won't be on YouTube because Ring of Honor does a pretty good job for making sure. Okay, they need to seek this out somewhere else. Me versus, oh, there's three that come to mind.

Okay, give us three. Okay, me versus Jay Briscoe when I won the Ring of Honor World Championship. There was a clip of that on YouTube. There is. There's clips of that. Me versus Roderick Strong for the Ring of Honor Television Championship. We actually, that match went an hour, a 60-minute match. And then me versus Matt Taven for the Ring of Honor World Championship,

and that also went 60 minutes. Is that the one of Madison Square Garden? Actually, no, that one's not a Madison Square Garden. Believe or not, that one is in Las Vegas. Went 60 minutes. I'm proud of the match in Madison's scored garden But I don't think When you look at my body

My matches and my body of work It's not the like all that You need to watch that match As far as someone looking to see What is J. Lethal all about? Yeah It wouldn't be that match But I mean one of the greatest nights of my life that match

Sure But yeah it's those three Um Yeah I really think think there's some of everything in there. And the reason that those, I pick in three, those three is because it's had a time where I realized everything I've done before this, the macho man, the Rick Flair, getting to rub elbows with Kevin Nash, all that stuff was this great.

I should have had to pay money for that. It was a giant learning experience to the person and the wrestler that I am today. I got to learn how to cut promos from Rick Flair. I got to learn in-ring wrestling from Kurt Angle. I wrestled Kurt Angle on pay-per-view. I got to work with it. It was the greatest learning experience that I could have gotten to prepare me to be the face and the franchise of a company. And my body of work now is just, man, all that stuff needed to happen so I can get to this point.

With as over as Black Machismo was, how did you know it was time to put that away and start to be J. lethal again? I didn't. They told me it was time. I was just having so much fun. And one funny thing comes in mind, because I was like, oh, when does this? And then when it was over,

I was like, almost didn't know what to do with myself when they were like, enough of the black matrimo. Raven, had this joke. He goes, gee, let me, you mind if I talk to you for a second? I go, sure. He goes, so the one thing I noticed is

you're a black machismo impression. It's amazing. It's like, man, I can't take my eyes off the screen. I said, yeah. He goes, you're Rick Flair impression? Spot on. It's great. Like, I can't think of any other word, but great.

I go, yeah. He goes, you're J. Lethal impression, though? Need some work. I was like, wow. Okay. And I agreed with him because I was so good, I thought at being other people, because I watched them for years, that I didn't really know how to be myself.

I didn't know what Jay Lethal was or who he was. So it took a little while to figure that out. But all the things that came before helped me figure it out. I just wanted to be a mesh of all the greatest things that I found to be great about wrestling. And then I realized that's all you're watching from any particular wrestler. You're watching what they feel wrestling should be. And what drew them to wrestling, they're going to incorporate that heavily into whatever they are doing.

So when you watch me, you're watching a bunch of Rick Flair. You're watching Motsamand Randy Savage. You're watching some Kurt Angle. You're watching damn near some of everything. You're watching some Brett Hart, too. Like everything that, depending on if I'm good or bad, too, everything that I found great about professional wrestling is in my matches. And that same thing can be said for every wrestler.

So how did you find J. Lethal? After being a macho man impersonator and a Rick Flair impersonator, how did you find Jay Lethal? Well, he was always in there. He was always in there. I just didn't know it. And I needed to go through all that other stuff so I could be like, oh, I like this.

And ooh, I like some of that. And ooh, I like some of that and some of that. And finally, when I had all those pieces, then I was able to go, okay, this is lethal. He's all of these things. And your hair was always such a big part of your gimmick. Was it scary for you to take on a very drastically different look? Okay, so you want to know something about... Okay, so I had had corn rolls for almost.

13 years straight. And the thing about corn rolls is they look good, but after a certain amount of time, they pull your hair out. So I, through the corn rolls and through my dad's genetics, a combination of both, started balding. So the braids on the side would look super full, but the braids on the top would look kind of thin. And the funny thing is, because sometimes I'd let my braids out and have my hair.

down. And I love doing that, but you would really notice the hair was thinning, so I had to keep the braids in. And I remember one of my friends said to me, don't cut it. Don't cut it, because I was like, I think I need to cut my hair.

He said, did Hogan ever cut his hair? That's not a great example. He said, that Mott's a man or Jake the snake ever cut their hair? No, they fought the good fight. So keep fighting the good fight. So that's what you would call it, fighting the good fight. And I said, no, I don't think in this day and age I can fight a good fight.

So I remember going to the bar where I said, cut it. And then I go, oh, wait a minute. I got a great idea. Maybe I could have whoever I'm feuding with. Maybe they could beat me down and shave my head. So, yeah, that's what we did. I didn't want to do it. I really didn't.

But there was one day I was getting my hair braided. And I was like, this is. not only does it hurt, but it's getting painful because there's so little in the middle that she has to. And then one time my sister was like, well, I can add fake hair to it. And so I was like, oh, my God, I think I need to cut it. I mean, you rock it. You rock this. I love it now.

Yeah. I didn't love it so much when it first happened. It took a while I'd get used to. But now, oh my gosh. When I had the braids, Chris, every other week, because I was wrestling, so much. I had to get my hair redone. So think about having 13 years. For 13 years, at the end

of every week, you got to sit down on your butt so your sister can braid your hair. And it takes like three, four hours because she has to undo it. You got to wash it, redo it. And it was now, in the morning, I go in the shower, and then you're done. Yeah.

Ready to take on the world. And think of, there were a lot of people who did not fight the good fight, like Kurt Engel, for example. So many people. Right, but was he balding? Yes, that's the whole reason. Yeah.

I didn't, I didn't notice that he was bald. I mean, if you go back and watch that hair versus hair match, he was balding. And he told me that Vince McMahon said, gonna have to shave your hat. Luckily, luckily no one came up to me and said that. It would have made me feel awful. I think they just let it happen. It was luckily my decision.

but no, I didn't notice that he was bold and wow. And I mean, you named Jake the snake who pretty publicly had a hair transplant. Yes. So, and he fought the good fight in a different way. He did, he did. But you rock it. I mean, you rock it. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I look just like my dad. He's got the bald head. We just, we look very much the same. Your dad is a handsome man then. I thank you very much. I thank you. my goodness this has gone so much longer than i promised you it would go but it's okay it's i've had i've had a blast

the best is when time just goes by you don't even realize because you man the questions are so interesting the answers are interesting sometimes and it's okay to travel off of wrestling topics that's what i love that is that is the purpose of this show is okay i mean this my podcast is called insight because i want to steal your insights and apply them to my own life And you have so many nuggets of knowledge during this conversation about believing in yourself and chasing after the things that you want and making them a reality that I'm inspired. And I know that everybody listening to is going to be super inspired as well. Oh, man. Thank you.

Well, thank you for for having me on. This has been so cool. So cool. I can't tell you. I've done a bunch of these. Man, and this one, I really feel like. and sorry for the people watching. I feel like this one started

as soon as the call, as soon as our video thing connected and I saw you, there was a good minute or two that didn't get recorded. And I'm like, I got to hit record. Let's do that. This thing, and I know

the deal, right? I know like as soon as it starts, they normally say, okay, are you ready? We talked a little bit, you're ready? Okay, okay. And here we hit record. Yeah.

I know that that's the deal. I didn't think that when, when the camera turned off, we were going, but it's just this natural thing, and you had the Emmys there and like, and then we've got all the gear behind the year. Yes, yeah. So did we talk about that or was that all off air? No, we talked about that.

Okay, okay. All right. Man, like, yeah, this one was great. On air, off air. I end every interview talking about gratitude, Jay, because it's such a huge thing in my life. And I can tell from the stories that you're telling that, you know, you are a very grateful persons. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for as you sit here right now? So outside of wrestling can be whatever you want. Three things that you're grateful for today.

Okay. One thing I'm grateful for is that I have a dream job. And by dream job, I mean, I'm living my dream and getting paid enough to make a living. You know, I have a house and It's all due to wrestling in this dream job. So I'm so many people who have to go to work and they dread getting up to go to work. They hate it. And for some of them, it's all they can do. It's all they can get. They can't get another job.

And man, that is, my heart goes out to those people and it makes me feel so sad for them. And also appreciative and grateful that I got this dream job. And man, I got so lucky. I'm just so lucky. Another thing I'm grateful for, I'm grateful that the fans, I get to rustling from the fans coming up. I mentioned it's like Christmas Day.

I don't openly admit to being jealous of anyone, not too much, but I was very jealous of my friends at AEW who got to have a big pay-per-view in front of the fans. I couldn't stop looking at the fans. I knew the wrestling was going on, but believe it or not, When I watched their pay-per-view, I wasn't even looking at the action in the ring.

All I could do was keep staring at the fans' reaction because I couldn't wait until I could experience that again, and that's coming up. I'm so grateful that the pandemic didn't end wrestling altogether, and we got the fans coming back. And the third thing, I mean, I'm, wow, I'm just grateful to, to, to be alive. I mean, I'm healthy, especially in a business where, you know, not everybody can say that. I've actually only broken one bone in my life. Wow. And it was, yeah, I broke my left arm. It's the real, really the only bad injury I've ever had in wrestling. I've been very lucky. Never got any

teeth knocked out. I hit my head a few times that every wrestler has, especially when you're learning how to fall back. So I'm thankful that I've never been a knock on some wood here. Seriously, I will knock as well. Thank you, injured. But yeah, like, I'm just grateful for everything. Like, I really do think that my wrestling career and my life is like, can be described two ways. One, someone won the lottery. I really feel like I would, some people have a better chance of winning the lottery. than they do getting to live everything that I've gotten to live, work with their idols, travel the world, people like an action figure. And the other way to describe it is, if you just go and watch Willie Wonka in the Chocolate Factory, I am Charlie. And like you mentioned before, sure, you can say that, but you got to have the skills to back it up.

Sure, you got to have the skills at the right time. You need those to stay in that position. but I am on the side of the fence where I have been extremely lucky. Everything that I've gotten is due. I know I have hard work. I know I put that in, but I think that everything I got is because I got lucky and I was in the right place at the right time.

I really do. And the main reason I think that, Chris, I mentioned to you earlier, as a wrestler, you can check all the boxes. You can have the look. You can have the charisma. You can talk to talk, walk the walk, and still never make it.

But those people who never make it and check all the boxes, they put the hard work in. They know how to run. I mean, I've seen some great bricking rustlers. Yeah. Never make it. Yeah. And I did.

And it's, I just, I'm so lucky. I'm lucky. Not for Emmy's lucky, but I'm lucky. We're thankful for the career that you've had. I mean,

you're so damn entertaining in the ring. Thank you. Thank you. And so damn. entertaining in an interview. This was fantastic. Thank you so much, Jay. I've been looking forward to speaking with you for a long time. I look forward to when we can meet in person and do this in person, but this was fantastic and exceeded any expectations I would have. Thank you. I got one question. I want to ask you a question to end. So I can't see what kind of set up you have.

This is where you do most of your work. Unless we're doing them in person, yeah. Okay, so what's on your desk? What do you got on your desk that you, like, you're, you know, oh, man, this makes my setup complete, this thing on my desk. For me, it's this here. I've got a bunch of funco pops, but my macho man funkal pop was the last thing I got and it completed.

Like, that's when I was like, now my setup is complete. I've got lights and stuff, but this is what makes. this is wow i've got a few funckel pops here but this one was the last one i got it made my collection yeah my whole setup is now complete what do you got something on your so my i will i mean i'm going to break your heart here my desk is barren so my desk is just it's just equipment this is i don't work from this desk other than like recording interviews and maybe you know typing on my laptop okay all i've got here is like a mic and you know some notes that i made and this thing that we got to plug the mic into.

It's all behind me here. So, okay, so we talked about the Emmys. What is that belt? Oh, wow. This was a gift that was made. Fandu belts make some of the best replica belts. And it's the, my podcast used to be called the Chris Van Vleet show.

So, oh, wow. It is a custom belt. We got the YouTube platform. Logo there, podcast logo there. A custom belt that was just a lovely gift. That was a gift to you. It was a gift to you.

It was a gift, yeah. I liked it. That's amazing. Thank you. But I think the thing that really completes the whole set. The way you just did that, by the way. What? The way you pop the strikes that falls on your shoulder.

That is yours of being a wrestling fan. It does. For real. For real. I've given my, you know, I've won plenty of belts before on indie shows and stuff, and my dad, I let him hold it. I remember I brought the Impact Wrestling, the Exhibition title, and he would, like, hold it up.

And the way he wouldn't put it on his shoulder, he wouldn't pop the strap open, like, it's a thing. Yeah, you've got to be this big, avid wrestling fan. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Every wrestling fan can do that. Yes, yeah, yeah. But I think, so a lot of the things behind me here mean a lot to me.

So that is a building in Cleveland because I used to live in Cleveland. That is the Rogers Center where the Blue Jays play in Toronto. And I was a season ticket holder before moving to America. Picture my family. And another gift that was a, that's a bobblehead. Chris Van Bobble, I call it. I got this when I was in Cleveland. Chris Van Bable.

And we'll now you and I, we have figures of, we'll live forever now. We get to live forever. One of a kind right here. Nobody wants to live. But Jay, I can't thank you enough. This was so great. Thank you for having me, Chris. Thank you.

Thank you. This has been awesome. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video.

They're a band from 1988. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.