Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Jay Lethal on Macho Man, his viral segment with Ric Flair, becoming The Franchise in ROH

Episode Date: July 8, 2021

Jay Lethal is a professional wrestler currently working for Ring of Honor. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about "Best in the World" which is ROH's first show with fans on July 11. He also discusses how he broke into the business, the difference between working hard and being lucky, his time in Impact Wrestling as "Black Machismo", working with Ric Flair and the viral "WOOOO off" that they had, the phone call he had with Macho Man Randy Savage before he passed away and much more! Submit your Blue Wire Hustle application here: http://bwhustle.com/join If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, yeah. And welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm Chris Van Vle. Thank you so much for joining us, whether it's your first time here, or whether you listen every single episode. So glad to have you with us. So glad to have the franchise in Ring of Honor, Jay Lethal, with us. This was such a fun conversation, like right out of the gate.

I feel like I'm now best friends with Jay Lethal. And I feel like everybody. should be best friends with Jay Lethal. What a guy. Give him a follow on social media. He's at the Jay Lethal on both Instagram and Twitter. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. Also on both Instagram and Twitter.

And I'm closing in on 100,000 followers on Instagram. So if you have Instagram and you don't follow me yet, it would be so great to connect with you on there. And I love these reviews we've been getting on Apple Podcasts. I love that we're reading one on every single episode again. I put a poll out on Twitter a few weeks ago and I said, should we bring the reviews back? Because you guys were so helpful in getting us to 2,000 reviews.

We're well over 2,000 reviews now, which was the goal, right? The goal was 2,000 reviews by my birthday, May 19th. We did it all because of you. And I put a poll on Twitter and I said, should we bring them back? And you guys like resoundingly said, yeah, of course. We want a shout out. So they're back. And this one is from Joseph in Asheville,

North Carolina who says on another level. Chris's podcast is something that I look forward to because it gets me through the workday. I'm a delivery driver and I get to hear all of his podcasts. They get me through the day. But more importantly, there are many times when I listen that I'm inspired by Chris and his guests. Listen to this podcast. It's a good way to hear the deep information of the world of wrestling that we all crave. My favorite part of the show is hearing Chris asks his guests what they're grateful for. It's a great way to end the show and makes me think about all the great things that I'm grateful for. And being grateful and focusing on those things can change my outlook on life when things maybe aren't going so well. Thank you,

Chris. Keep up the good work. Joseph from Asheville, North Carolina. Well, thank you, Joseph. I appreciate you listening to every single episode. And thank you so much for taking the time to leave such a kind and thoughtful review. And I love that you're focusing on the things you're grateful for in your life. I can tell you I'm grateful for you. And I am super grateful for my guest today. So let's dive right into this. Please welcome the franchise. Jay Lethal. Oh man. This is happening. Jay Lethal, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, why are we giggling? What's going on here? Oh, man. We're giggling. I wish that we hit the record button sooner because I was so, like, hypnotized by your, that whole shelf behind you. And I wish that we caught that on camera.

I should, I should have to tell you guys about it. The second, the Zoom meeting open, I should have just hit record. But look at all the things behind you. Like, this is, you know, these are things that they, they, my gear lady made those, those things behind you. she can't make those. Ah, somebody made these, I'm sure. That's true. Okay, so this here is my gear.

This is where I put all my gear, by the way. I hang it up in this closet area. Let's see if I get my fingerwork. This is a ring of honor jacket. This is a robe that she just made for me. Gear here. Boots. This here is a poster.

The UFC company. decided to work with Impact Wrestling when I was there. This was a tester. And then they, you know, they didn't like it. So then they stopped. So that and I got this one here for my, for my birthday. My best friend got this picture of me putting Rick Flair in the figure four. He painted, got it painted, but that should be a much larger image. You putting Rick Oh yeah, you're sure. That's the entire mural in your house. Sure, you're right. Yeah, I think I'm going to tell my best friend, and you made a mistake.

You know, yeah, it was, it would be bigger. It was a nice gesture, but right. The thought, the thought was nice,

but that's where it ends. Look, I don't have a gear lady making me things. You could. And I'm sure it'd be cheaper if, with those, uh, the emmy series,

you got, those things you got behind it. Man, that's, that is incredible. You got four of them. Ah, thank you.

That's very kind. You know, I'm not a, oh my God. And you've got the land. You've got the leg lamp. Wow. You've got a leg lamp.

I'm going to grab it. You're the first person who's noticed. It's very fragile, by the way. Oh, okay. So there is a big discussion in my family on whether or not he said fragility. But the F was cut off. So there's no reason. Or he said radially because the F was cut off.

So all he saw was the R. So it was impossible for him to read the F. But there's a big debate in my family on whether or not he says, fragilly or radially. If the F was there, we think he would have said fragile. But I think he couldn't see the F. If you go back and watch it, the F is cut off of the box. So I think it's radially.

I must be Italian. Well, it sounds Italian. Wow, you've got leg lamp. I lived in Cleveland for five years. That was the first American city that I lived in. And the Christmas Story House is in Cleveland. So they do a lot of things in Cleveland surrounding a Christmas story and the Christmas Story House, which has been turned into like a museum now.

Are we becoming best friends? We are best friends. It's the scene in Stepbrothers. Did we just become best friends? Yep. I'm so pumped to have you on the show. I've been trying. I've been talking to Ring of Honor for like a year to make this happen.

And here we are. Okay, so, you know, I feel like I just want to talk to you about everything other than Rigabana right now, especially since I set a line and you knew where it was from. Me, my brother, and select few wrestlers. I want to play my ringtone for you and I want to know if you know where it's from. Oh, my goodness. But in order to do that, I just have to disappear for like three seconds. Would you mind?

And like people are watching. This is live here, guys. What could end? As J. Leithel sprints off. What could this ringtone possibly be? That was less than three seconds. You seem like someone who, man, all of my friends, if you give them a line, they're like, oh, that's from this movie. That's from this movie.

The pressure is on now. If I don't get this, the interview is over. I feel like you're going to get it. Maybe. Okay. You ready? Mm-hmm. Here we go.

I don't know if you can hear a thing. I don't. What is it? It's from Beetle juice. Oh. Oh, it's from. I haven't seen Beetlejuice since I was like six. Ah, okay.

No worries, no worries. But I would have got that. I hope I didn't disappoint you too much. You didn't. You didn't. Oh, my goodness. Because in the Beetlejuice movie, it's only in the movie for like 10 to 15 seconds. You don't, you don't get a lot of it.

So like some people have no idea, but some people, they go right away. That's Beetlejuice. That was a deep cut. That's what that was. All right. Very deep. My goodness. All right.

We're just taking this everywhere but wrestling. Who needs to talk about wrestling? There's more to life than wrestling, right? What have you been, what has been keeping you busy over the last 15 months? Because it hasn't been a ton of wrestling. It hasn't been. Twitch, Twitch, I've fallen into the Twitch. I stream on Twitch, anything on Twitch, yeah.

Minecraft, right? I don't, I'm not a big fan of Minecraft. I just threw that out. there okay I thought you were on a Minecraft stream though I believe was I I don't know like someone like someone made me no no I saw I was on your Twitter and someone had tagged you and you retweeted it I was Colt Cabana Cole Cabana called Cabana said join us among us among us yes among us yes Among us that's right yeah yeah yeah among us great game have you ever played

among us I played with my nephews who are twins and their 10 and they were teaching me everything and I kept saying suss. Yes, yes. That's a great word. Great word. Great game of deceit, you know. You know, there's probably about 10 people. One of them is the imposter.

You've got to figure out who it is. Yeah. Great game. Great game. really good at them. Those are the best. Yeah. Well, how difficult is it for you when your world is wrestling for, you know, almost 20 years?

And then it comes to a screeching halt. So here's the thing. And I'm sure I'm not the only one in the wrestling business, but I really put all of my eggs in the wrestling basket. Sure. I didn't divvy my eggs up. I didn't have a backup plan. There's no plan B for me.

It's wrestling or it's nothing. And I hope that it's nothing because I don't want to live on the street. But so because all my eggs were in the wrestling basket, there was sheer panic in my life. I was terrified because this pandemic had the ability to end wrestling for foreseeable future. Yeah. Not just one particular company, but wrestling everywhere. So I was terrified. Terrified.

That's an understatement. And then slowly but surely. having these shows with no fans became a thing. Yeah. Which, I mean, only a wrestler would fully grasp this, but wrestling hurts. No matter what they tell you, and no matter how long you've trained and how long you've done this, it hurts. And the way we get around that is, believe it or not, the fans give you this boost of adrenaline. adrenaline is the most powerful drug in the world.

In fact, depending on what shows you watch, like Dark Side of the Ring, other wrestlers go through great lengths to find another drug like adrenaline, but there's no match for it, okay? You are invincible in the ring, and then wrestling no longer hurts until you're back in your hotel room,

and then you're like, oh, man, that thing. But there's nothing like it. So when the fans are there, you're like, I can do this forever. But when they're not, there, you realize exactly what you're putting your body through, and it is not fun. But here's a thing, Chris, because I put all my eggs in the wrestling basket, I, you know, whether there's zero fans or 100, I got to be wrestling because it's what, you know, I was,

I just positioned my life in a way where it's wrestling or it's nothing. So whether there's zero fans or 100 or thousands, I got to be wrestling. So I'm fine with doing it either way, whether it hurts or not, but it's just easy. when there's people there and luckily people are coming back. I feel like it's Christmas coming up. I mean, it's July 11th. It's right around the corner here, best of the world. Crowds are coming back.

Chris, I can remember Christmas Eve. I couldn't even sleep because I was so excited about what was going to be happening. You don't get the open presents and all the joy. That same feeling, I swear, is the way that I can only describe the feeling of knowing that fans are going to be back. wrestling's not going to hurt. And I get to perform in front of people. It's just, man,

I can't tell you how excited I am. Did, did COVID give you some perspective, if all your eggs were in the wrestling basket, did it give you some perspective to go, man, what do I do when I can't wrestle anymore? It did.

It did. And I've struggled to think of other things that I could possibly do. I've got one or two things working in the background that I'm not going to mention. But yeah, it definitely opened my eyes, especially when I thought there was a chance that this COVID could end wrestling as we know it for the foreseeable future.

Yeah. Just sheer panic in my life. Every wrestler had to be panicking. Well, this is the thing that happens, not just in wrestling, this happens with all athletes across all sports where you're, you know, you're 18, 19, 20, 21, trying to make it,

trying to, you know, make a name for yourself. And you don't think about, oh, what am I going to do when I'm 32 or 37 or 42? You know, you might have had a great run, but that's only a small little slice of your life. Correct. Correct. And, you know, we don't want to think about it. Yeah. And that makes it real. You know, it's like in wrestling, we get to make up this world.

We go through the curtain and we get to control everything that happens once we get through that curtain, you know, if in life you were this guy who got bullied and pushed around, when you go to that curtain, you're the macho man. You know what I mean? Like, so to think about literally for you yeah, where are my glasses? Oh, here they are. Oh, man. I should put my glasses. Oh, put him on. What are we waiting for? Come on. Yeah, why have you been doing this? Why have you been doing this the whole time without those put glasses on? Where's black machismo? I don't want to talk to you anymore unless you got the glasses on here. A little side note, you know, I just, this keeps going everywhere but wrestling, but,

that's the whole point. Yeah. You know, I, uh, every time I see any image of me doing the macho man, because he'd always do, show his teeth a lot. Yeah. And, uh, all the images I have, I have this gap here, but I got invisible line and I'm getting the gap close. Oh, your teeth look.

Perfect. Look at those. If you go back and look at all the pictures, I got this big gap. in my teeth. Yeah. And I think I was the only one who cared because I asked several of my friends. Should I, I, I'm thinking about, no, don't do it. Blah, blah, blah. But it's all I would see when I look in the mirror, you know? That's all that matters. That's all that. All that matters is, are you happy when you look in the mirror? Right. So now I'm going to show my teeth any chance I get you. Yeah. I was a fellow Invisaline wear. Oh, no way. Well, I had braces when I was 16.

until I was 18. And, you know, I wore my retainer and everything, but your teeth still shift a little bit. So I wore, I only wore them for like nine weeks. I had invisible line for like nine weeks. And just straightened out a couple little things. I would have loved to have had braces,

but unfortunately, my parents had six kids. My dad was the only one working. It was literally like, oh, your teeth hurt. Well, you're fine. Go, go, get on. You know what I mean?

Oh, there's pain to your teeth. You have five. siblings. I do. And they always make the joke. My parents must not have had a television. Where were you? All this youngest in the middle? I share the middle. I share the middle with my older brother. So do you feel like maybe you had middle child syndrome? Because that's a thing. It's very much a thing.

I, uh, no, I don't feel like that. I don't. And I actually feel bad for people who don't have a big family so many of my friends are only childs like we had family movie night and family bowling night we'd sit at the table plate cards you had built in friends when you couldn't go out you had even meant like to not have that i couldn't imagine it i couldn't imagine it i just had one sister so i don't i don't know just an older sister were you guys close not really if i'm being completely honest four years older than me when you're a kid four years is like an eternity yes and Trust me. Trust me. I'm, you know, I'm eight and she's 12. I don't know what she's, you know, I don't know what's going on in her life. I don't really care either.

Well, getting into the wrestling business, I, you know, my brothers and my family loved wrestling. I wish that I could have gotten to the wrestling business with my younger brother and we could have been a tag team, but he liked basketball or more. It's probably better for his body anyway. But I'm sure you were in other sports as well. It wasn't just wrestling, was it? Just wrestling. Wow. So when your little brother's playing basketball, you're not playing against him? So everybody, I feel like even my sisters, but that's just a joke.

But all the boys came before me, played football, and it was just assumed that I was going to play football. I remember once I got to high school, the coach walking past me in the hallway, go, hey, practices such and such. I go, whoa, nobody even asked me. I wasn't a big sports fan, especially since my brothers were so. good. I never won anything. Even when it came to sports video games, they were just so like sports wasn't my thing. I played the saxophone. I played the saxophone for about 10 years. So when the coach, that year was not so fun for me because when the coach found out that I was going to be on the field, but not in a uniform, not being a football uniform, but a marching band uniform, he was not happy.

And he would make snide comments, but it didn't last too long. But yeah, I just, sports was not a big thing for me, believe it or not. I joined the wrestling team, and I was only on the wrestling team for like half the year because it wasn't the wrestling that I thought it was. I grew up, you know, macho man, Randy Savage. I want to be like him. There was so many rules, amateur wrestling. Like, when you got the guy on the ground, you're not allowed to lock your hands.

Like, am I not trying to put in this guy? Like, what's going on? like with you can only do moves with one arm like a full Nelson is illegal and yes yeah I was like this is not what I signed up for so that didn't last long and I I stuck with the music for a long time until I realized that Russell I had a chance to wrestle I went to a wrestling show with my buddies this little small time show and uh at intermission they said oh we're going to have a contest and whoever wins a contest we're going to train you to be a wrestler for free and I won the contest What was the contest?

They brought you in, and the whole day they showed you four things in the wrestling ring. And whoever did those four things the best, they would pick three winners. And if you were one of the winners, they'd train you to be a wrestler for free. They showed you how to run and hit the roots. Okay. They showed you how to take a fall, land on the ground. There was like a, I think there was a jumping one, or who had the best endurance or whatever. And then there was a promo one where you had to come.

had a promo. And I remember I was only 16. So when, no, I was 15, I was 16 turning 16. And at the end, they picked three winners. I wasn't even one of the winners. So I remember my dad took off work to take me to this. And he sat in the back the whole time. I'm thinking, I didn't even win. I got to walk back over to my dad. He took off work. And so right before I got to my dad, they made another announcement. They said, you know, we weren't going to do this. because he's so young, but we're going to make an exception and add a fourth winner, and it was me. I couldn't believe it. Wow.

It's pretty much the story of my whole wrestling career. It's just one lucky win after another. I feel like my whole wrestling career can be, it's Charlie and a chocolate factory, the movie. You know, I won the golden ticket. I got the chocolate factory. But, I mean, yes, part of it is luck, but it's also a lot of like hard work and determination and right place, right time. People don't want to look at that the hard work. They don't realize that that's not it doesn't suit their story.

They're just like this guy won a contest. He got lucky. Sure. You know, you got to have the skills and everything to back it up when the time is right. But I do attribute most of I am a pretty lucky guy. I am. Right.

But just because you won a contest and got free training doesn't mean you have this great run and impact wrestling and a great run and ring of honor. This is true. because what isn't discussed too much is after six months that training school closed down so then i had to go pay and search for other training because my training wasn't complete so then you know i still went through all the things that people uh go through when they actually pay because i did have to pay for additional training because but they don't care about that they they just uh the the story the silver lining that that you know that headline is it's uh he won the contest he trained for free

Was the promo that you cut, a macho man, Randy Savage promo? It was not. It was not. You wouldn't know what I think helped me was, I think I was the most athletic one there. I really think so. From all the years of not playing football. From all years, no injuries or anything. And you know, another wild thing is, so four people won.

I'm the only one wrestling today. Wow. Yeah, those four people stopped wrestling about two years after. maybe two, three years after they had won. I think there's a lot of people, and you can certainly relate to this. There's a lot of people who say they want to be a wrestler and even go so far as getting trained. Yes.

And I think for a lot of people, just going to wrestling school, just being able to say their friends and family, I go to wrestling school. I think that's enough for a lot of people. It has to be. So I'm a trainer. I train people on how to become a professional wrestler. I have a school in Tampa. Yeah.

And some of it, by the way, because there's a lot of people. There's going to be people watching this that want to train with you. I have a wrestling school in Tampa, Florida. It's called the Russell Factory. I'm sorry, it's called the wrestling laboratory, not factory. Russell Lab for sure. Russell Laboratory. I can't believe I said that.

Well, anyway, getting to my point, there's so many people who join the wrestling business because they want to make it to the WWE, which is, it's so tough. Like some of them I have to explain, you have to be okay with knowing that you'll go through all of this training, all this hard work. This hurts. It doesn't feel good. You're going to leave here. Your neck is sore. You've got to be okay with knowing that after all this work, you only get one match in front of like 10 people. If that is okay with you, then the wrestling business will work. But if you're going to shoot yourself in the foot, if you're like, yeah, I'm going to make it to WWE because it's, there's no way to guarantee that. And then if you do all this work and you don't make it there, then it's human nature to look for a reason why it didn't happen. Instead of it just, you know, it wasn't in the cards. And then, you know, the worst thing would be, oh, I didn't make it there because of your training. What didn't you show me that was, whoa, like, you know what?

That's never happened, but I'm terrified that it will someday. You know what I mean? No, it's clearly all on them. That's how wrestling is. wrestling is not a team you know it's it's human nature to you need someone to point out and go that is why that didn't happen sure that's just that's just

natural but I mean the sooner you can get over that the better wrestling will be for you at what age did you determine I am going to be a pro wrestler when I grow up I think it was always there my oldest brother got hurt in the living room with my grandpa wrestling I can remember in school, all of my reports,

anytime you got to pick the topic, it was wrestling. In middle school, I remember going to lunch, and I didn't even eat. Me and my buddies would bring our wrestling magazines. We'd never go up to get food sometimes. We'd sit there in the table. Oh, did you see Monday, and I brought? Did you see this?

I think in those moments, I already knew that it would be tough to pursue it, but that was my ultimate dream. somewhere along the way my back plan was going to be being a carpenter like my dad because sometimes i'd go to work with him help them and i had my own tool set but i think that the moment that i realized okay wrestling is the that's it's full steam ahead is when i went to that show with my buddies and they said we're going to be hosting this contest in a few weeks and if you win it we'll train you for free there was never a second there was never a doubt not my head that I wouldn't win this contest. I knew for a fact that I would win it and this would

be my big. So like from that moment on is when I knew I'd be a wrestling. It was always a thing in my head. This is going to be my dream. I did start developing a back plan like trying to be a carpenter. But the moment that happened, I was still in middle school. I was about to go into high school. Yeah. So yeah, that was that was the thing. That was it. And I remember, remember my mom. When I came home to tell my parents, I remember they sat in a living room, my mom's face didn't seem, she seemed like she wanted to say no. But my dad, who loved wrestling, I remember his face like, I almost remember him like nodding. And my mom's whole thing was, of course, they don't want to see their babies get hurt, you know. Sure. But never once did they say no to me.

Never once. My parents were like super supportive. My brother wanted to be a rapper and they were fully behind that. Like they, no matter what you, as long as you had something that you wanted to do, they would support you. Yeah. So they never told me no, even though I think my mom did want to say no, but I remember their faces. My mom looked like she wanted to say no. Well, I don't think it's any mom's like favorite day. son or daughter says to them, I'm going to be a pro wrestler, mom. You're like, are you sure? Right, right. And you know what's wild is, you know, if I ever get to a point where I have kids and they come up to me and they say I want to be a wrestler, shockingly, it's not going to be a yes. I'm so proud. I think it's going to be same like my mom.

Are you sure that's what you want to do? That's not uncommon though when you've had a career in pro wrestling. like I'll talk to a lot of second or third generation stars and their parents are like like I just had Ted DiBiasey on recently or Austin Gunn and the parents are like you really want to follow in these footsteps like it's it's a tough life you know it's a tough life you want to know why okay so here's my reasons why I would tell my kid are you sure you want to do that there's two reasons one I'm already a wrestler. So any second generation, you automatically compared to your mom or your dad automatically. So right away, you're automatically not getting a fair shake because you're just instantly compared.

That can be a blessing or it occurs. They can get the doors open for you or it could not. And the other reason is, and it's the saddest reason, you know, there is a checklist in wrestling of all the things you need, right? You got to have a great body. You got to be able to talk. You got to have charisma. You got to be at a wrestle. You got to be too short. You got to be the perfect height. You got to be kind to others. But all this, all this stuff. You can, you can get all of those checks. You can have all of those things and still never make it. It's wild. There's like, this is just one, you got to be lucky. So to have a son or daughter just gear their whole life towards this thing where at the end of the day, you really do need luck. It's just, it's, it's,

man, I would just try to persuade them not to. Not too hard. If they wanted to do it, I would be okay. But like I said, you can have everything you need and still not make it, which is the wild thing. But it's also what do you determine to be success? For some people, it's working a few indie matches. For some people, it's main event at WrestleMania or nothing. Right.

And those people get shot in the foot. Yeah. Right? You're, oh, man. Because when you don't reach that, you never feel like it. panned out for you. Yeah. Which is wild. Which is wild. I mean, if I couldn't wrestle tomorrow,

I've had the greatest career that anybody could ever have, I feel. I got an action figure. I traveled the world. I went to another country and people wanted to meet me. Like, you've made it. I was in a video game. I mean, I got to meet my idol. I worked with them on pay-per-view. Like, I made it. So, yeah, there's that.

It's pretty amazing. I would imagine for you as a kid growing up and you've had an amazing career. WWE was probably a goal for you. Was there ever interest from them? So I think working for the WWF or WWE for most of the people from my generation, that's why you got into wrestling. Of course. And that is why you got into the wrestling.

Most of us along the way your goals kind of changed and you realize there's other things besides is WWE. Or for me, it was, I can make a living and not have to go to WWE. I didn't know that that was a thing. I didn't even know that that was probably. It wasn't.

Thank God it is now. But I mean, so there was a few times. There was a little interest, but, you know, because of contracts here and there, it was never like a thing that I could pursue. And, you know,

part of me thinks that it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I got to be, you know, hindsight's 2020. We don't know what would have happened, but I became the face of a company known around the world for its wrestling. I was a world champion. In Ring of Bonner, it's like you worked so hard and you got that big promotion and you got that corner office looking out over the water.

Like, I got that promoting. Who knows what would have happened over there? And now that I have that promotion, why do you leave that, give that up to go try to, you know, like, I'm going to, I might as well have a big ring of honor tattoo on my back because I'm going to be there until I die. Yeah. You're the guy. Like when people think of Ring of Honor, they think of Jay Lethal.

And in wrestling, every wrestler is a dream scenario for them. Yeah. And you can get that on some of the smaller indie shows, but it won't pay the bills. I have gotten that and I'm at a show that financially pays my bills. Yeah. So it's a dream. scenario. Like, I have won the lottery. I've got the chocolate factory. At what point in your Ring of Honor run, did you really start to bring that on? Did you bring it on yourself or did

they bring it on you where you went, yeah, I am going to be the franchise? That's a good question. I feel like it was more so brought on to me. That's a great question. Yeah, I feel like it was more so brought on to me. Yeah. One day they's, I remember just hearing one day they were started calling me the franchise and right away because I'm such a wrestling historian. Yeah, I'm like he is not going to like that. So I would have never come up with that on my own. But yeah, this was, it was something that was brought brought on to me from Ring of Honor. And even in the locker room because and like I hate anyone to refer to me as a veteran or like, oh man, you're like the, No, man, we're all on the same playing field.

We're trying to make this company and ourselves as big as possible. Yeah. So, but in the locker room, a lot of people call me captain. And I just think it's just, if they all had the vote, they'd be like, yeah, he should be the guy. Or like, ah, if we had to come together and make, who would speak for us, it's probably him. I've been told that by so many of them. And I'm like, oh, no, like, I don't, that's not me. But yeah, so it's definitely not something that I said, yeah, I'm the franchise.

Like, yeah, this is like, you know. But I mean, when you think about locker room leaders in other companies, you think about like, everyone always talks about The Undertaker, you know, who's 50s, you know, you at this point, when you're being deemed the leader or the captain or the franchise, you're in your early 30s at this point. I know, I know. Which is wild, too, to think about me being in my, 30s, I remember when it feels like just last week or two weeks ago, I could always say that I was the youngest person on the roster.

In fact, when I got to impact wrestling, I couldn't even rent a car. I was so young. And now to hear that I'm 30 something, it's like, oh, man, time really does fly. Yeah. Like if you don't live in those moments, if you're too focused on something else, these things just go by and you don't get to appreciate. I appreciate them. I feel like I've appreciated them, but I really don't feel like I have fully grasped everything that I've gotten to do yet. I think when it does hit me, my brain's going to explode and then I'll be dead.

That's kind of been one of the silver linings of COVID, is we've all had a chance to pause, especially in the world that you live in and the business that you work in, your city to city every single week. How could you possibly slow down and appreciate what you're doing when it's hotels and airports every single week. And COVID has been this great pause where you've been able to go, huh, I have a painting of me putting Rick Flair in the figure four. How is this my life? Right.

Right. Right. Oh, man. That's hilarious. I mean, it's true. Those four Emmys you got there. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

So you, you were like. Yeah, so for some people, the thing is, when have you made it? Because making it is different to everybody. Sure. So how many of those did it take for you to realize that you've made it? Man. You had to get four.

You got greedy. You got to get four of them. Well, so quick story here. I'm originally from Canada. Yes. So originally from Toronto. I was working in Cleveland. It's not easy as a Canadian or anyone, someone from any other country to work in America.

A friend of mine got banned for that, so keep going. A huge process to get an 01 visa, which is what I was working under for my first several years, which is the alien of extraordinary ability to be able. That sounds amazing. So, yeah. So the thing when you have a visa is you can only work for the company who has sponsored your visa. So I could only work for CBS Cleveland, which was the company that sponsored my visa. That's where I was an entertainment reporter.

But I was starting to get offers to do other things, but I couldn't legally do these other jobs. So I reached out to an immigration attorney and said, do you think I could get a green card? And he looks at like my resume basically and goes, 60% chance. And I go, oh, that's goodish, right? He goes, anything over 50, I say we go for it. He goes, have you, you know, what kind of awards have you won? Because it's all going to be about like, what have you done that you will be able to take these jobs away from an American.

So I said, well, you know, if I've won some of these awards, I've been nominated for an Emmy, he goes, yeah, nomination, that's okay. He said, but I'm nominated for two more Emmys in like two months. So you guys, if you win an Emmy there, you've got a really good chance to get this green. Wow. So I not only did, not only did I win one Emmy that night, I won two Emmys that night. And one of them was about a story I did about Gregory Iron, a wrestler out of Cleveland, who was going to fight having cerebral palsy.

And so the fact that I was able to like tie my two passions together, broadcasting and wrestling together and win an Emmy for that. Then you go into the guy's office with your Emmys slamming down on the table, right? So I'll never forget. I won those two Emmys on like a Saturday night in Indianapolis. And that Monday morning emailed the immigration attorney and said, I'll never believe it. Not only did I win one, I won two.

And he goes, let's get that application started and ended up getting my green card. So I don't know if that's a moment where I made it. But that was certainly a moment where someone who had a lot of power over the rest of my career, sitting in some random office in Texas, I believe, is looking at my resume and my application for probably like three minutes and going, do we give this guy a green card or not? And that was a moment where I went, I've accomplished enough. to at least stay here. That's tremendous.

Wow. So that's, that was it for me. But what about for you? What's the moment for you where you go, I mean, and we've had a lot of time as we just discussed over the last 15 months. What's the moment for you where you go, huh? I think I've made it. I know exactly when it was, exactly when it was. I got an action figure made of me from Impact Wrestling.

my dad had it in his hand and he said there's so many people who don't have an action figure of themselves if you don't realize that you've made it by now then you're crazy and i go yeah he's absolutely right that was the moment because it never dawned believe or not it had never dawned no one ever said that to me i had no thought about what the crowning achievement is that would make me feel like i've made it. I kind of feel like I'd always made it, but I never thought of it. I never thought about it until that day when my dad held the action figure and he said, you know, you've made it, blah, blah, blah. And I go, wow, you know, you know, it's also, you know, it's also the fact that it's your dad saying that to you. Obviously, someone that you, you know, have a tremendous

amount of love and respect for going, hey, son. Yeah, look at this. Yeah, wake up, stupid. You've made it. How was this action figure not on display behind you? you come on actually actually it's because I don't have many of them obviously the one that I was talking about is that my parents house okay this one is actually my second one this one's from ring of honor though the one I'm talking about there's a lot of my things that aren't really my things but you know they kind of belong to me but my parents won't let them go so uh they're they're at their house like I've got a couple you know I threw the first pitch out that was amazing two when I threw a first pitch out literally right before I was walking onto the field all I could

think about was this is what celebrities do like what team what team was it for I threw the first pitch out for three different teams the white socks the Tampa Bay raise and then the farm league no no I did the the Yankees spring training game and a farm league in a farm league in in Vegas. Man. Yes. And each time, especially the White Sox,

they made a jersey for me with my name on it. I can't tell you the last time I've seen it. My dad won't let it go. I live here in Tampa, Florida. It is not here in my possession

because my dad won't let it go. He's got all the jerseys. I love that you have the perspective that you have, that you're able to look at these really cool moments in your career and go, that was cool.

Because there's a lot of people. And you know this, Jay. There's a lot of people that have those cool moments to go, yeah, of course. What's next? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And it's so sad. So sad. But yeah, I was literally thinking, I said to myself, and there's been so many times, there's been so many times where stuff like that is happening. And I'm like, they don't know that I'm just a wrestler. Like, they think that I'm like some big deal. Like, when we had the show and. Madison Square Garden for Ring of Honor and the New Japan Joint Show.

Yeah. So first of all, I thought the only way to get to Russell and Madison Square Garden, there's two ways. One, you had to work for WWE. Or two, you had to fill out a janitor application. And then you could say you worked. And I was, yeah, I worked for Madison Square. That was the only two ways, you know. But because my face was on the poster, when I got there the day before, they brought me

in they man the social media people pull me aside can you film this from that then somebody came in nowhere and was like i'm going to take you to this room where only a select few people have been like mike tyson and like they don't let just anybody in this room i go i think they think because i'm on the poster that i'm like a they i'm they think i'm like a celebrity or something they rolled out the red carpet there was like man it was incredible and all like a think was I'm pulling a fast one over these guys because they think that I'm like this big deal. They're like laying out this, taking me to this room that like, Vince McMahon was probably in that room countless times, but not a lot of people because, you know, they don't allow

people in that room. You've got to be a somebody. Like, and I was like, this is unreal. But when it comes to Ring of Honor, you are the somebody. This is, yes, yes. But in my head, it's always, I don't know, not to. downplay it too much, but I don't know. Like, oh, man, it's hard to explain. And then I was like, and then after you know, then you got to kind of play the part a little bit. And I was like,

yeah, you mind if I get that poster outside when you guys are done with it? I asked if I could have the big poster outside Madison Square Garden. And they were like, oh, yeah, no, no problem. Hey, get his name, get his address down. I mean, and we'll send it to you as soon as. And whilst he was writing my address down. All I could think of was, oh, my God, they just, they think like, this is, this can't be real. They think I'm like some big star. They're just like, what I felt like I could ask them anything and they would just let me have it or do it in that moment. I remember the lady said, oh, just so you know, because last time we sent it to whatever big hockey player is, we had hockey here. And he was a little upset because, you know,

when he got the sign, it kind of stinks because you have to remember this. sign is outside. And I go, oh, yeah, that won't, don't worry. That won't be a issue. I'm thinking, please, stuff this, that ain't a big deal to me. I don't care of it sinks. So how bad did it smell? It didn't smell bad at all. I don't know what that guy was talking about. Sounds like people were pissing on his sign. Oh, man. That was like one of the greatest experiences. And not to cut you off, But what made that moment for me, what made it was my very first wrestling match ever. My dad went. My mom, she didn't want to go because she thought I was going to get hurt, you know?

Eventually my dad tricked her into going, then she loved it. But my very first wrestling event, my dad was there, sat in the back, watched his son get beat up for like four minutes. The match was only four minutes. For the first six years of my career, he went to every show that I had. even when Ringabonner, because when I got to Ring of Honor, the first time I had to drive to the shows, but the first time offering me a plane ticket is that we're going to, we have a show in Chicago, you made the list, we're going to give you a plane ticket. I go home and my, I told him my dad, oh, Ringabon is going to fly me.

And he goes, well, what about us? I go, they're not going to fly you. He goes, well, we'll rent a car. We'll drive. I said, that's 16 hours. He said, we don't, we'll drive. Let's do it. I said, okay.

And that became the precedent. Like, no matter where we had to go, whether it was a 16-hour drive or a two-hour drive, my dad went to every show with me. So to have him see me, and sometimes, Chris, they were the only ones in the crowd. There's been so many shows where, like, the crowd was my four family members, and the wrestlers would work just in front of them, and my parents would, like, they would give them the biggest reactions that four people could give, which was so cool. at the time.

So to have him see me in these small VFW halls, my very first match, and now he's in a big press box. Yeah. Looking down, sold out Madison Square Garden. I'm making my entrance with the world. Man, it was that, it is the greatest moment of my life. It's unreal.

Unreal. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster.

There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henko. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. All of what you're describing here sounds like imposter syndrome. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure what imposter syndrome is, no. It's basically the idea of like, I'm here, but I don't feel like I belong here.

Yes. It's just a matter of time until everybody else figures out that I'm not supposed to be here. Okay. So that's wild that you just said that because I have done so many interviews where they asked me about what it was like my first time in Ring of Honor. because I was there years ago and then I went to Impact Wrestling but my first couple of years there was

exactly that. I was terrified that someone was going to come figure out that I don't put, I was wrestling with guys like Samoa Joe, Siam Punk, Brian Daneson, all these legends. I didn't even there was still training that I still needed to complete.

That's why, because my school had closed down, remember? There was still a lot of things that I don't know. When I sat down with a wrestler, I noticed that I wasn't coming up with any idea. They would lay the whole thing out for me because I wasn't that skilled. And I really felt like somewhere along the way, someone thought that I could hang here, but I can't. And I'm getting exposed that every turn, it's just a matter of time before someone says,

hey, what are you doing here? And then kick me out. That's my whole description of my first like three or four years at Ring of Honor. It was unreal. crazy. It's called imposter syndrome. Yeah. But I mean, it sounds obviously with what you've accomplished in your career, you've come to terms of the

fact that, okay, I do belong here. Now, yes. Yes. It sounds like it might have taken some time. And that's probably compounded when you go to Impact Wrestling. And when you were in Impact Wrestling, everybody was an Impact Wrestling. That roster was stacked.

How do you mess that up? That roster was stacked. You're right. Kurt Angle versus Samoa Joe. We had this great relationship. We did this, you know, we got brought guys from CMLL and New Japan. They had Okada there for crying out loud. It was unreal, the amount of talent there.

And I'm rubbing elbows with all of them. I remember I went, Rick Flair had me come out to the bar with him, the drink. I got to hang out with Kevin. Think about what you just said. You're right. Like, it's not that you're right. When you came up with the black machismo character, what was the reception originally for that?

Okay, so I didn't want to do it originally. It was, this impression was just something that I was always able to do. And any time being in a locker room where, you know, if it got too quiet, I would just bust out in this Randy Savage thing. And one time, Kevin, Nash, he just loved hanging out with the Ex-Division guys. Yeah, there's another I can't have a Nash, just hanging out with the X-Division guy.

I think it's because we laughed at everything he said. And he had to, like, he's so funny. He's the funniest I've ever met in my entire life. It's like this dry sense of humor. Yes, yeah. And a lot of,

there's been so many jokes that I can't repeat in public. But I remember one time he said to us, you know, if, if you guys met me when I was in WCW, you would hate my guts. Because there was a lot of stories about he just didn't like the smaller guys. Well, anyway, he loved hanging out with us and he heard me do the savage voice a few times. And he goes, yeah, why don't you do that on TV? That's hilarious. And I go, well, no, no, I don't want to do it on TV. My big fear was I would become a joke.

This would be funny. Getting into wrestling business, nobody wants to be the joke. Everybody wants to be that badass world champion, you know, you want to be the stone coat Steve Austin. Somewhere along the way, you realize, though, that not everybody can be that badass world champion, that Stonecoe, Steve Austin. There is a spot for everybody. You just got to figure out what your spot is. If you're the funny man, you have a role. Like, there is a place for everybody as long as you realize that, because not everybody can be that number one. So he got me to realize that. I didn't want to be the funny guy. He helped me through that. Also, I didn't want anybody to think that I was making fun of macho man because I idolized them.

Him and Rick Flair, if it weren't for them, I don't think I'd want to be a wrestler. Yeah. So I was like, I don't want to make fun of him. So Kevin said, think of it this way. There's nobody talking about the macho man right now. If you do this, at least people will be talking about him. So if anything, you'd be helping him. And that logic was like, you're right.

Nobody's talking about matrim right now. So if I could bring any light to them, that would like, yeah. And then I was like all for it after that. So it was all Kevin Nash's idea. Then he went to Jeff Jarrett and Jeff loved it. I remember them pulling me into the sound stage and they said, do your impression. And I would do it. They would play it back.

And literally when they played it back, I was like, whoa, that sounds just because I'd never heard it recorded before. That sounded just like macho man. They got such a big kick out of it. It was incredible. And then that character lasted way longer than I thought it was going to last. Was there ever any pushback from WWE since that was their IP? If it was, never got to me. Did you ever hear anything from his family?

What a great impression. I became great friends with Lanny Potho. So here's a Machimand story for you. I was doing these shows in the Midwest, run by a man named Ed Schumann. And Ed Schumann, when I did his shows, he kept claiming to me, I know the macho man.

And he's like, I know him, and I told him about you, and here's his number. He wants you to give him a call. So I go, oh, man, that'd be great. So when I got home, you know, wrestling ribs were a big thing. So I thought,

I'm going to call this number. Somebody on the other line is going to do a macho man. I can't be the only one who can do Macho Man. So I never called it. I ended up doing Ed Schumann's show maybe five, six times after that. And every time I would go, he would say,

Macho Man said that you never called him. Like I gave his number. Call him. I go, yeah, yeah. I get home, didn't call him. So then, like the fourth time, I go, okay, let me just call him so that Ed Schumann can stop hassling me. And I can get this rib over with.

They can laugh at me. So I call the number and I explain, you know, Ed Schumann gave me your number. And the guy on the other line kept going, he kept going, is that right? And I go, yeah, and I'm a big fan of yours. Is that right? Yeah, and I've been doing this thing on TV. I don't watch much TV, but Ed showed me on YouTube.

It's pretty good. And I go, yeah, I'm a huge fan of yours. And it's like, this is an honor. Is that right? Well, me and my girl about to go to get something to eat, I got to talk to you later. I go, okay, and that was like, so when I do the next Ed Schumann show, I go, okay, I talk to him, he goes, what did he say? I go, I felt like I was bothering him. I'm waiting for like, ah, ha, how he got to.

And that was it. He never said anything ever again about it. So then, like, three years later, I meet Lanny Poffel. Someone books me versus Lanny Poffel on a wrestling show. And he's such a cool guy. and at the end of the day, after I wrestled him, I pull him aside, I go, can I ask you something? He goes, yeah. I said, do you know a man named Ed Schumann?

He goes, oh, that's Ed Schumann. And as soon as he said that, my heart started pounding so hard. Like, oh, my God, I just, I said, okay, well, Ed Schumann gave me the number to Macho, ma'am. I don't have it anymore. But can you find out if that was really. hand that I talked to. He goes, yeah, as soon as I get home, I'll, uh, give me your number. I gave me your email too. Give my email. The next day, I had an email from Lanny Popple said, yeah, I just talked to my brother. He said, he talked to you once. He said, you only called

him once. He said, he gave Ed Schumann, uh, the number to give to you and you only called them once. And I wanted to cry. I wanted to cry. I found the number. And I called him three more times, but every time the conversation was like 10 seconds because he couldn't talk. He was busy doing it. And I was so mad. You have no idea. Like I just didn't believe that it was him. Otherwise, I would have asked, man.

And then he passed away and you have no idea. I, man, it was all because of people in the wrestling business. They play so many ribs. And I just thought I was protecting myself against like being made fun of. Yeah. There's no way to describe, Chris, how the feeling that I felt when I realized it was him, three times I tried to call and he was too busy to talk. But like I let that opportunity slip through my fingers because I thought it was someone playing a joke on me.

It was anybody's going to do any sort of impression for a rib. It's Hulk Hogan or macho man. So I completely can understand why you might think that someone was pulling a fast one on you. Yeah. Yeah. But, man, when I said the name Ed Schumann to Lanny and he right away goes, oh, before he finished saying right then and there, I just felt awful that I didn't believe. And I should have believed him. And here's the thing.

Ed Schumann, he passed away too. He was a great guy. never played a trick on me. He was always so nice to me. He booked me on his shows at a point where I was having this imposter syndrome. Like he was, like, there was

no reason not to believe him. But I didn't believe him. What do you wish you could have asked macho man that you didn't ask? Oh, man. There were so many things. So I enjoyed most of his

heel stuff as opposed to, his good guy stuff. So I would have picked his brain. I wanted to become better at wrestling. What advice do you have? I would have there was one thing that I'd try to do is I would have wanted him to hear me plan a match and tell me what was good about it. No, don't do this. Why do you do it like this? Well, and like because the way his matches came out to me or all when he was a bad guy was so incredible. Like him, there's two people where I watched their matches and I think they're geniuses, him and the other's Triple H. Like, they don't have bad matches the way it's from a wrestler's standpoint, the way it's what we call structured,

and the way it plans out, it's always to me flawless. So that would have been the main thing I would have asked them, can you hear me plan this match? And can you tell me what I shouldn't do and what I should, like, man, and then I would have asked them all the fan questions. What was it like working with sensational Sherry? I was a big thing. fan of sensational sherry. I thought she was beautiful. One of my favorite moments was when she interviewed was there was a storyline where if Warrior won the belt, Savage wanted a title shot. So he sent Sensational Sherry to ask her if if you win can you give match a man? Man, there was so many like oh man, that's my childhood. And bad guy Savage, there was one thing that I would, was super

impressed that and I tried to do incorporate all things like that when I was a bad guy. So he would make Elizabeth stand in a specific spot. He would like visually pointed her, you stand here, you know? But then when things weren't going right in the ring, he would jump out. She'd be standing where he told her to stand, but he was mad that she was standing there. And he would make her stand in a new spot as if like, dude, you told her to stand there. What a dick. Yeah.

Like you're like the worst person in the world. Like little things like that that made you hate them. And it wasn't because of what was happening in the ring. It was because it was happening outside the ring. And man, yeah, I just, I missed the opportunity to talk to him. Well, look, I know you're beating yourself up about this, but there's not too many other people in the world, whether their profession is wrestler or otherwise. Who can say they've had any sort of phone call with the macho man, Randy Savage? So I think that that's like a badge of honor you should be wearing.

It is. And later on. in life, someone explained it like this. Think about all the people who get into basketball, let's just say because of, who got into basketball a long time ago, because of Michael Jordan, let's say. Okay, what are the odds of them becoming a successful basketball player? So slim to none. And then put on top of that, the ads of them getting to work with Michael Jordan, the person who helped shape their love for, like, it's like capturing lightning in a bottle. They said, you've captured lightning in a bottle. You've got to be okay with that. And yeah, I am. And I mean,

it's not just with macho man, it's with Rick Flair. Yes, yes. And you're now a meme because of this moment with Rick Flair. Those memes, you know, you know Colt Cabana? Of course, yeah, he was on the show last week. Colt said to me, could you imagine if you just got 50 cents for every time that meme was viewed? Just 50 cents. I said, wow, you know what?

I didn't think you're right. a cent. Yes, just half a cent. Right. Yeah, that, that meme. I remember people in high school that I hadn't talked to for years texting me the meme. Like, oh my gosh, this is wild. Was the plan going into that segment that you were going to have the woo off and do what you did? Okay, so no. If you were to ask me what the scariest moment of my life is, it's not any kind of near-death experience because I've never had any near-death experiences. There's one time where, you know,

I went through turbulence and the plane was like terrified me. But scariest moment of my life is that segment with Rick Flair. And it's because Vince Rousseau, when I got there, said, and he's, you know, from New York, bro, I got this great idea. You're going to have interaction with Rick Flair. you got a promo bro with Rick Flair. And of course, little kid and he's going jumping for joy. Yeah.

He goes, but the problem is he goes, bro, Rick Flair won't let us write anything for him. He goes, when a wrestler goes to the ring for a promo, they always have bullet points. They know, but he won't let us even write bullet points. So you got to go to Rick Flair and ask him what do you want to do in the promo. I go, okay. So I go to Rick Flair. And I go, so we have an in-ring segment today. And he goes, yep.

I go, Russo told me to come get with you to go over like what we're going to, what happens in the promo. And like it was a movie. So I'm standing in his locker room. That's important to remember. Like it was a movie, I go into his locker room. I say this. And I go, Vince Russo wants me to get with you to figure out what we're going to, how the promo is going to go. And he stands up, comes near me.

He goes, I don't talk about my wrestling promos. I'll see you out there. And he slaps me on the shoulder. Then he walks out of the room. First of all, why are you walking? Like, this is your locker room. Why are you walking out? But it was like a movie.

I'll see you out there. Then he walked out of the room. And in that moment, I kind of was like, is he joking? But like, I hope he's not because I had been at Impact Wrestling at that point, Chris, for six years. Never have they given me a chance to cut a promo in front of the crowd. live on television. I was doing the macho man stick. So at that point,

all my promos were filmed in the back, in the locker room, pre-taped, and let's just say they said, okay, in your promo, you're going to say one, two, three.

In the macho-man voice, if I said, okay, one, two, seven, they thought it was funny. They didn't even care that I didn't say one,

two, three. So I never had to, like, hit these marks or, like, hit these bullet points or like, make sure I say the right thing. I can say anything

in the macho-man voice. neighbor one take you're good so now from going to that to now live in front of the crowd live on TV with Rick Flair it was terrifying man it was the scariest moment of my life scariest moment and literally we couldn't I didn't know what was going to happen like nothing was written nothing was planned remember before I went through the curtain my hands went numb that's how like nervous I was and Simon Diamond came up to me he goes what like you look so like what's going on you look so nervous and scared i go i am he goes what you don't understand jay and maybe this will make you feel better is you're only in this

position because you have this killer rick flare impersonation backstage he loved it so much that he wanted to work with you that's why this is happening so don't do don't go out there and do anything you wouldn't do back here just do what you're doing back here because that's why you're in the situation you're in and that made me feel a little bit better? I was like, yeah, okay. So then... Did you know what you were going to do a Rick Flair impression before that in the chat with Simon Diamond? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I knew that I had to go out there and pretend to be Rick Flair, then he was going to come out and then who knows what was going to happen after that.

That's all I knew. And that was how we had like four promos together. And every one of them was the same way. Go out there, start doing a Rick Flair impression. And then we'll see what happens and it's terrifying. It was so terrifying. Wow. But it panned out and I couldn't believe it, but I was so scared because it's like I don't want to say the wrong thing and like I don't want to mess up. And Rick Claire's like the best promo guy in the world. Like what am I supposed to do? But it luckily worked, it all worked out. That whole woo-off, none of that was planned. It all just happened, which is wild. Wow.

None of it was planned. What's the best meme you've seen for the woo-off? The one where it's like when your dogs, when you're two dogs are walking and just us wooing back and forth at each other, that's the best one I've ever seen. Oh, man. If, I mean, if you could somehow make that an NFT, you'd be rich. Oh, wow.

I imagine impact wrestling we don't know right right right but impact wrestling should make it an nfts and give you guys a little bit something there right right wow yeah that nfti you're yeah i don't even know what an nfts is but yeah but hands down that's the scariest one of my life chris wow what a story yep and then uh there's a couples like like we mentioned there after one of the day days he said come out and have a drink with me and i don't drink much but uh hanging out with him there's so many things that he told me that i can never repeat obviously uh but seeing him in the bar he really is a ladies man and the the ladies just love rick flare it's wild um so to see him in like his describes it as he holds court at the bar

That's a good way to describe it. That's a good way. Yeah. They just, they're drawn to him. It's wild. And I've seen it firsthand. They're just drawn to him. I mean, he oozes charisma.

He does. He does. There's a lot of charismatic people in the wrestling business. But he is on a completely different level. He is. And his career is like, it's like a new resurgence now too because he's in so many rap videos and there's so many. Like, it's amazing. he's got these Car Shield commercials.

This is like life after Rick Flare, but there's no, you know, you're still Rick Flair, but life after wrestling for him is pretty sweet gig. Oh, there is, there is a large contingent of wrestling fans who have never watched a Rick Flair match. I mean, think about it. If there's people that are in their 20s or maybe even younger, they're aware of who Rick Flair is. They're aware of the significance of him, but they may have never seen a match. You want to, I've never even thought of that.

there's a lot of this is going to blow your mind there's a lot of people that've never seen a rock match a lot of people that don't even you know the rock to them as an actor right i can't even begin to imagine that wow that kind of like it's like just does not compute you know how is that possible let me ask you this yeah if there's someone watching this that's never seen a j lethal match for whatever reason. What match do they need to go look up on YouTube right now? Okay, well, it won't be on YouTube because Ring of Honor does a pretty good job for making sure. Okay, they need to seek this out somewhere else. Me versus, oh, there's three that come to mind. Okay, give us three. Okay, me versus Jay Briscoe when I won the Ring of Honor World Championship. There was a clip of

that on YouTube. There is, there's clips of that. Me versus Roderick Strong. for the Ring of Honor Television Championship. We actually, that match went an hour, a 60-minute match. And then me versus Matt Taven for the Ring of Honor World Championship, and that also went 60 minutes. Is that the one at Madison Square Garden? Actually, no, that one's not a Madison Square Garden. Believe it or not, that one is in Las Vegas.

Went 60 minutes. I'm proud of the match in Madison Square Garden, but I don't think when you look at my my matches and my body of work it's not the like all that you need to watch that match as far as a

someone looking to see what is J. Leethle all about yeah it wouldn't be that match but I mean one of the greatest nights of my life that match sure but yeah it's those those three yeah I really think I there's some of everything in there and the reason that those I pick

three, those three is because it's had a time where I realized everything I've done before this, the macho man, the Rick Flair, getting to rub elbows with Kevin Nash. All that stuff was this great, I should have had to pay money for that. It was a giant learning experience to the person and the wrestling that I am today. I got to learn how to cut promos from Rick Flair. I got to learn in-ring wrestling from Kurt Angle. I wrestled Kurt Angle on pay-per-view. I got to work with it. Like, it was the greatest learning experience that I could have gotten to prepare me to be the face and the franchise of a company. And my body of work now is just, man, all that stuff needed to happen so I can get to this point. With as over as Black Machismo was, how did you know

it was time to put that away and start to be J. Lethal again? I didn't. They told me it was time. I was just having so much fun. And one funny thing comes in mind, because I was like, oh, when does this? And then when it was over, I was like, almost didn't know what to do with myself when they were like, enough for the black machismo. Raven, Raven had this joke. He goes, Jay, let me, you mind if I talk to you for a second? I go, sure. He goes, so the one thing I noticed is your black machismo impression, it's amazing.

It's like, man, I can't take my eyes off the screen. I said, yeah. He goes, you're Rick Flair impression? Spot on. It's great. Like, I can't think of any other word, but great. I go, yeah. He goes, you're J. Lethal impression, though?

Need some work. I was like, wow. Okay. And I agreed with him because I was so good I thought at being other people, because I watched them for years. Yeah. But I didn't really know how to be myself. I didn't know what Jay Lethal was or who he was.

So it took a little while to figure that out. But all the things that came before helped me figure it out. I just wanted to be a mesh of all the greatest things that I found to be great about wrestling. And then I realized that's all you're watching from any particular wrestler. You're watching what they feel wrestling should be

and what drew them to wrestling, they're going to incorporate that heavily into whatever they are doing. So, like, when you watch me, you're watching a bunch of Rick Flair, you're watching Motsam Man Randy Savage, you're watching some Kurt Angle, you're watching damn near some of everything.

You're watching some Brett Hart, too. Like, everything that, and depending on if I'm good or bad, too, everything that I found great about professional wrestling is in my matches. And the same thing can be said for every wrestling. So how did you find J. Lethal? After being a macho man impersonator and a Rick Flair impersonator, how did you find Jay Lethal?

Well, he was always in there. He was always in there. I just didn't know it. And I needed to go through all that other stuff so I could be like, oh, I like this. Ooh, I like some of that. And ooh, I like some of that and some of that. And finally, when I had all those pieces, then I was able to go, okay, this is too lethal. He's all these things.

And your hair was always such a big part of your gimmick. Was it scary for you to take on a very drastically different look? Okay, so you want to know something about... Okay, so I had had corn rolls for almost 13 years. straight. And the thing about corn rolls is they look good, but after a certain amount of time, they pull your hair out. So I threw the corn rolls and through my dad's genetics, a combination of both started balding. So the braids on the side would look super full, but the braids on the top would look kind of thin. And the funny thing is because sometimes I'd let my braids out and have my

hair down. And I love doing that, but you would really notice the hair was thinning, so I had to keep the braids in. And I remember one of my friends said to me, don't cut it. Don't cut it, because I was like, I think I need to cut my hair. He said, did Hogan ever cut his hair? That's not a great example. He said, did Mott's a man or Jake the snake ever cut their hair?

No, they fought the good fight. So keep fighting the good fight. So that's what you would call it, fighting the good fight. And I said, no, I don't think in this day and age I can fight the good fight. So I remember going to the barber, I said, cut it. And then I go, oh, wait a minute. I got a great idea. Maybe I could have whoever I'm feuding with.

Maybe they could beat me down and shave my head. So, yeah, that's what we did. I didn't want to do it. I really didn't. But there was one day I was getting my hair braided. And I was like, this is. not only does it hurt, but it's getting painful because there's so little in the middle that she has to. And then one time my sister was like, well, I can add fake hair to it.

And so I was like, oh, my God. I think I need to cut it. I mean, you rock it. You rock this. I love it now. Yeah. I didn't love it so much when it first happened. It took a while I'd get used to.

But now, oh my gosh. When I had the braids, Chris, every other, every week, because I was wrestling. so much. I had to get my hair redone. So think about having 13 years. For 13 years, at the end of every week, you got to sit down on your butt so your sister can braid your hair. And it takes like three, four hours

because she has to undo it. You got to wash it, redo it. And it was now, in the morning, I go in the shower, and then you're done. Yeah. Ready to take on the world. And think of there were a lot of people who did not fight the good fight, like Kurt

angle, for example. So many people. Right, but was he balding? He lost. Yes, that's the whole reason. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't notice that he was balding. I mean, if you go back and watch that hair versus hair match, he was balding.

And he told me that Vince McMahon said, gonna have to shave your head. Luckily, luckily no one came up to me and said that. It would have made me feel awful. I think they'd just let it happen. It was luckily my decision. but no, I didn't notice that he was bald and wow. And I mean, you named Jake the snake who pretty publicly had a hair transplant.

Yes. So he fought the good fight in a different way. He did, he did. But you rock it. I mean, you rock it. Thank you. Thank you very much. I look just like my dad.

He's got the bald head. We just, we look very much the same. Your dad is a handsome man then. I thank you very much. I thank you. My goodness, this has gone so much longer than I promised you it would go. It's okay. I've had, I've had a blast.

The best is when time just goes by, you don't even realize because, man, the questions are so interesting. The answers are interesting. Sometimes, and it's okay to travel off of wrestling topics. That's what I love. That is the purpose of this show. Okay. I mean, my podcast is called Insight because I want to steal your insights and apply them to my own life and you have so many nuggets of knowledge during this conversation about believing in yourself

and chasing after the things that you want and making them a reality that I'm inspired and I know that everybody listening to us is going to be super inspired as well oh man thank you well thank you for uh for having me on uh this has been so cool so cool I can't tell you I've done a bunch of these. Man, and this one, I really feel like, and sorry for the people watching. I feel like this one started as soon as the call, as soon as our video thing connected and I saw you, there was a good minute or two that didn't get recorded. And I'm like, I got to hit record.

Let's do that. This thing, and I know the deal, right? I know, like as soon as it starts, they normally say, okay, are you ready? We talked a little bit. You ready? Okay. okay and here we hit record yeah i know that's the deal i didn't think that when when the camera turned on we were going but it's just this natural thing and you had the emmies there and like and then we've

got all the gear behind yes yeah so did we talk about that or was that all off air no you we talked about that oh okay okay all right man like yeah this one with great mix of on air off air i end every interview talking about gratitude jay because it's such a huge thing in my life and i can tell from the stories that you're telling that you know you are a very grateful person so what are three things in your life that you're grateful for as you sit here right now so so outside of wrestling can be whatever you want three things that you're grateful for today okay uh one thing i'm grateful for is that i have a dream job and by dream job I mean I'm living my dream and getting paid enough to make a living you know I have a house and it's all due to wrestling in this dream job so I'm so many people have

to go to work and they dread getting up to go to work they hate it and for some of them it's all they can do it's all they can get they can't get another job and man that is my heart goes out those people and it makes me feel so sad for them and also appreciative and grateful that i got this dream job and man i got so lucky i'm just i'm just so lucky um another thing i'm grateful for um i'm grateful that the fans i get to rustling from the fans coming up i mentioned it's like christmas day i don't openly admit to being jealous of anyone um not too much But I was very jealous of my friends at AEW who got to have big pay-per-view in front of the fans I couldn't stop looking at the fans I knew the wrestling was going on but

Believe or not when I watched their pay-per-view I wasn't even looking at the action in the ring all I could do was keep staring at the fans reaction because I couldn't wait till I could experience that again and that's coming up I'm so grateful that the the pandemic didn't end wrestling all together and we got the fans coming back and And the third thing, I mean, I'm, wow, I'm just grateful to be alive. I mean, I'm healthy, especially in a business where, you know, not everybody can say that. I've actually only broken one bone in my life. Wow. And it was, yeah, I broke my left arm. It's the real, really the only bad injury I've ever had in wrestling.

I've been very lucky, never got any teeth knocked out. I've hit my head a few times that every wrestler has, especially when you're learning how to fall back. So I'm thankful that I've never been a knock on some wood here. Seriously, I will knock as well. Thank you, injured. But yeah, like, I'm just grateful for everything. Like, I really do think that my wrestling,

career and my life is like can be described two ways one someone won the lottery I really feel like I would some people have a better chance of winning the lottery than they do getting to live everything that I've gotten to live work with their idols travel the world people like got an action figure and the other way to describe it is if you just go and watch willie walk on the chocolate factory I am Charlie and And like you mentioned before, sure, you can say that, but you got to have the skills to back it up. Sure. You got to have the skills at the right time.

You need those to stay in that position. But I am on the side of the fence where I have been extremely lucky. Everything that I've gotten is due. I know I have hard work. I know I put that in. But I think that everything I got is because I got lucky and I was in the right place at the right time. I really do. Because and the main reason I think that, Chris,

I mentioned to you earlier, as a wrestler, you can check all the boxes. You can have the look. You can have the charisma. You can talk to talk, walk the walk, and still never make it. But those people who never make it and check all the boxes, they put the hard work in. They know how to. I mean, I've seen some great, freaking wrestlers. Yeah.

Never make it. Yeah. And I did. And it's, I just, I'm so lucky. I'm lucky. Not for Emmy's lucky. but I'm lucky. We're thankful for the career that you've had. I mean, you're so damn entertaining in the ring. Thank you. Thank you. And so damn entertaining in an interview. This was fantastic.

My, thank you so much, Jay. Like, I've been looking forward to speaking with you for a long time. I look forward to when we can meet in person and do this in person, but this was fantastic and exceeded any expectations I would have. Thank you. I got one question. I want a question. I got to ask you a question to end. So I can't see what kind of setup you have. This is where you do most of your work. Unless we're doing them in person. Yeah. Okay. So what's on your desk? What's what do you got on your desk that you like you're, you know, oh man, this makes my setup complete, this thing on my desk. For me, it's this here. I've got a bunch of funco pops. My macho man, Funko Pop was the last thing I got And it completed.

Like that's when I was like, now my setup is complete. I've got lights and stuff, but this is what makes, this is. Wow. I've got a few funkel pops here, but this one was the last one I got. It made my collection. Yeah. My whole setup is now complete. What do you, do you got something on your desk?

So my, I will, I mean, I'm going to break your heart here. My desk is barren. So my desk is just, it's just equipment. This is, I don't work from this desk other than like recording interviews and maybe, you know, typing on my laptop. So all I've got here is like a mic and, you know, some notes that I made and this thing that we got to plug the mic into. It's all behind me here. So.

Okay. So we talked about the Emmys. What is that belt? Oh, wow. This was a gift that was made. Fandu belts make some of the best replica belts. And it's the, fan do. My podcast used to be called the Chris Van Fleet Show.

So. Oh, wow. It is, you know, a custom belt. We've got the YouTube plaque. Logo there, podcast logo there. Yeah. So a custom belt that was, yeah, I mean, it's just a lovely gift. That was a gift to you. That was a gift, yeah.

I like that. That's amazing. Thank you. But I think the thing that really completes the whole set. The way you just did that, by the way. What? The way you pop the strife that falls on your shoulder. That is yours of being a wrestling fan.

Yes. For real. For real. I think that I've given my, you know, I've won plenty of belts before on indie shows and stuff. And my dad, I let him hold it. I remember I brought the Impact Wrestling, the Exhibition title, and he would like hold it up. And the way he wouldn't put it on his shoulder, he wouldn't pop the strap open.

Like, it's a thing. Yeah, you've got to be this big, avid. wrestling fan watching enough to know every wrestling fan can do that yes yeah yeah but i think i saw that you know a lot of the things behind me here mean a lot to me so that is uh that's a building in cleveland because i used to live in cleveland that is the rogers center where the blue jays play in toronto and i was a season ticket holder before moving to america picture my family and uh another gift that was a that's a bobble head chris van bobble i call it i got this when i was in cleveland chris van bobble And we'll now you and I, we have figures of, we'll live forever now.

We get to live forever. One of a kind right here. Nobody wants to be. But Jay, I can't thank you enough. This was so great. Thank you for having me, Chris. Thank you. Thank you.

This has been awesome. Well, there you go, my friends. Thank you so much for being with us on this one. And a huge thank you to Jay. How fun was that? That story about the woo-off with Rick Flair? Unbelievable. And then the story about,

calling macho man Randy Savage thinking it was a rib, it not actually being a rib. So, so good. So I love that we were able to make this happen. Take a screenshot. Let us know what stood out for you the most. Tag us both on social media. Jay is at the J-Lethel on Instagram and Twitter. I am at Chris Van Vlead.

I'm getting very close to 100,000 followers on Instagram. So if you happen to have Instagram, let's do it. Let's connect on there. I will leave you with the words of Roy T. Bennett, who says, if you want to fly, you have to give up what weighs you down. Be great, be grateful, and we will see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened

to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. You're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley.

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