Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Jimmy Jacobs: The photo that got him fired from WWE, rehab, Impact Wrestling, Vince McMahon

Episode Date: August 8, 2019

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It's Chrysalmania, brother. That's a great question. Look at you, man. With the powerful questions. Woo! This is the Chris Van Vleecho. Chris Van Vleecho. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris

B! Hello, my friend. friends, welcome to the Chris Van Fleet Show. And every time Justin Roberts says it in the intro there, I get very excited. Thank you for downloading this and get ready to expand your mind, my friends, with this conversation with Jimmy Jacobs. And thank you for the five-star reviews that you've been leaving on Apple Podcasts. I mean, you honestly don't understand how important those are, especially for a new podcast like this one, kind of getting it off the ground. And I've been saying that I want more reviews, but I realize that's a very vague.

goal. And as we know, VEG goals get VEG results. So specific goals get specific results. So the specific goal now is to get a thousand reviews by this time next year. I mean, at last check, we had, I think, 189 reviews. So I feel like this is possible, a thousand by this time next year. And if you want a shout out on the show, it's as simple as just leaving a five-star review. It's my way of saying thank you to you for being part of the show. It's, you know, I'm just going to keep reading one on every single episode because you honestly are the most important part of the show. Otherwise, it'd just be me sitting here,

talking into a microphone by myself in my spare bedroom that I call my quote-unquote office. Ty M. Bergdad, what a name. Ty M. Bergdad writes, great pod. This is an incredible podcast for any wrestling. fan out there. The YouTube show was one thing, but making the interviews available on audio has taken them to a whole new level. The fact that Chris as a lifelong wrestling fan reads so well in his interviews with these superstars. The questions are great and tailored specifically toward each interview, which is refreshing. In addition, his easygoing style allows the stars to shine as

their true selves. It's always nice to hear from these men and women as human beings instead of just their characters as great as many of those characters are. Keep up the great work, Chris, and congrats on signing with AEW, looking forward to the upcoming shows. I'm looking forward to the upcoming shows too, especially October 2nd, AEW on TNT. Yeah. So keep these reviews coming in, and we'll keep reading them on the show.

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That's Chris 15 for 15% off at greenroadsworld.com. CVV show is brought to you by the pro-podcasting pack from Samson Technologies, which is broadcast, quality, sound at prices you can actually afford. SamsonTech.com is where you can see their entire lineup. So this interview with Jimmy Jacobs wasn't actually supposed to happen. It wasn't planned out at all, but I'm really glad it did. I've known Jimmy for years. I was actually the ring announcer for his match at Prime Wrestling in Cleveland, Ohio in 2012. He was wrestling a guy by the name of Johnny Gargano.

Maybe you've heard of him. But yeah, I was at the Impact Wrestling show in Hollywood, California last weekend. I ran into him there. We got to talking. I said, you know, I'd love to have you on the show some time. And then we kept talking a little bit more, and he's such an interesting, intriguing, engaging guy. And I said, you know what? Let's just do this right now.

Like, let's just do this. I grabbed my mics, and two minutes later, we were doing this. We talked about his infamous photo with the young bucks. that got him fired from WWE. Talks about his time there and working for Vince, who he calls, quote, the crazy man. We also get into some pretty deep existential ideas. So get ready.

It's my chat with Jimmy Jacobs. I'm glad that we very randomly made this work. So thank you for making this happen. I mean, is it random? Are the situations of the universe? Are they random? Oh, wow. I don't know.

We're getting right into it. Well, look, you were in this place and I was in this place. So in that sense, it wasn't random. We were just both here. So here we are. But we didn't plan. This is what I'm saying. I didn't reach out to you and say, Jimmy, let's do this interview.

But planning. Are you a planner? With interviews? Yeah. Really? Okay. Because I would like to, like, you know, do my research and know, like, these are the things we should talk about. Should.

Should's a strong word, isn't it? Not talk about. You can talk about whatever we want. We can do whatever we want. That's the brilliance in life. Once you realize that there are no restrictions, there are no forces, there are no authorities greater than yourself. And once you realize you can do that, it's like, yeah, man, let's do it.

Are you always like this? No. What changed? What changed? I went to rehab two plus years ago and it gave me the distance to, and space to look at my life, to look at my wrestling career, my drug use, and just what I was doing. It's like, we don't get that opportunity a lot. I think everybody should get to go to rehab.

Like whether you're a drug addict or not. I think you should be allowed, you know, a polling case of emergency. 30 days where nobody's allowed to talk to you where you don't have a cell phone where all you have to do is work on yourself. And it was so great. And so it led me on this journey of like, all right, man, like the way I was living in so many ways, clearly, like clearly here I am. I'm in rehab.

Like clearly what I've been doing is not the way to live. So what is the way to live? What was the moment for you that you went, okay, I need to go to rehab? I was going through a breakup because, you know, she broke up with me because, you know, the drug addiction and all this stuff. And I was trying to get clean by myself. And I just, I was on the floor of my friend's apartment, just on my knees, just crying. And he goes, he goes, what are you thinking? And what I was thinking was, I'm going to go get a fifth vodka.

I'm going to go to the strip club. I'm going to find some heroin. And he goes, what are you thinking? And I go, I think I need to go to rehab. And I wasn't thinking that. It was just like, it like flowed into my, into my, consciousness into my brain and I that just began the the steps of like hey yeah I can't I can't do this anymore I can't keep living like I'm living like I give up it was like a white flag like I give

up like let's do it a different way wow that was your rock bottom I guess yeah I mean it was the moment where I said okay I can't do it anymore I can't do it the way I'm doing it the way I'm doing it the way this this thing we all want to you know live our lives how you know our own way play by my rules and and all that sort of thing it's like it that wasn't working for me you know so I I had to try to play by somebody else's rules for a while. Rehab's not cheap, though. No, no, it wasn't. Man, there's a whole story.

So I just Googled, you know, rehabs that took my insurance, right? Okay. And I called this guy, and he said, well, this would be out of... At a pocket. No, out of... Oh, out of network. Yeah, out of network. And he's like, you don't have that coverage then.

I'm like, well, how much is it? He's like, well, it's $25,000. I don't have $25,000, right? And so I just like hung up on him, right? After I gave him all my information and everything about me. And I was just like, man, I can't do it. And so then he calls me back. He's like, I think I figured something out.

Do you want to do it? And I go, yeah, yeah, if we can do it, let's do it. And then all of a sudden my dad calls me. And I go, what the? So my dad calls me, he goes, you know, what's going on? We got this call from this guy. I gave my dad's contact information, just calling, you know, in case of emergency. My emergency contact.

So this guy calls my dad and lays upon him the situation. I'm like, Dad, we don't need to do this. We don't do it. He's like, look, son, we're talking about a few thousand dollars versus your life. Like we're, you know, this, it's fine. And if I was him, I'd have been the same way. It's like, it's just money. Because it is just money.

Who cares about the money? Yes, it's money. You can do great things. But also who cares. Yeah. And so my dad did that for me. And it was brilliant and it's awesome. It's great to, you know, have parents that would do that.

You know, humiliating to be 33 years old and having your dad, you know, bail you out one more time. But I'm so grateful it happens. But I'm sure your dad's going, at least this, you know, at least I'm able to bail my son out. Yeah, man, it's just so grateful that I had that, that there were, that, you know, nobody has that safety net. Nobody has a father that would do that or the ability to do that. So, so grateful and it brought me to where I am today, which is a great place. So when you're in rehab, is it, you know, is there certain books in there that you're reading

that really opened your mind up to this? Well, it was really just getting to the point where I just had to throw out everything I thought I knew. That's why, you know, I have this podcast called Jimmy Jacobs doesn't know because it was just, I had to go, look, maybe I don't know anything. All the ways I've been living, maybe I just, I don't know at all. Because like these things that I thought were like these great pillars of my life, like this thing like, follow your dream. And I go, what does that mean? Follow your dream. Here I am working for WB, unhappy, surrounded by guys that are millionaires that are unhappy there. And I go, wait a minute.

I spent all my life, you know, climbing to the top of this mountain. Now I'm looking up there. I go, there's nothing up here, man. There's nothing at the top of this mountain. And you realize, like, hey, the thing that's on the other side of your dream waiting for you, it's just you. That's it, man. That's what's waiting for you. And so if you think you're going to find this external thing to fix this internal problem, as they say, like, you're not going to do it, man.

So I just had to, like, things like that, I just had to like, wow, this thing I based my life off of. It's like, it's nothing. And so what is it? And so, you know, I read this book called the Tao of Pooh, which is a Taoism told through like stories about Winnie the Pooh. There's a book that's big in recovery circles called The Four Agreements, which was really good. Yeah, you've read that?

Yeah, great. So these sort of things, it just started to bring me on this journey. And to Darren Brown and to Russell Brand and to Neil Strauss and all these guys that have, you know, started to lay this path for me. Yeah, you've named some great authors in there like Neil Strauss. Are you looking to maybe write a book? No, no, as, as a... Not yet.

No. Okay. I don't even know what the story is. You know what I mean? I don't even know what the story of my life is. So you're kind of still trying to figure things out is what you're saying? I feel like in a way you found yourself. Well, I'm circling right towards something that I would call the truth,

which is weird to say, because I think it's very bold for somebody to say, like, this is true. It's like, yeah, how do you know that's true? I mean, really, how do you know anything that's true? Your perception, you're going to trust that. Like, you're here and I'm here and these bricks are here. Like, yeah, how do you know that? Because your eyes are telling you, because your hand is telling you?

Like, I'm not so sure about that. So it's like anything, anybody says, no, this is true. It's like, I look at very suspiciously, but I think I've circled around something that's true. And I think it's amazing. But I think we can look around us and say, You are sitting here in front of me. There are bricks here. Well, your perception is telling you that, right?

And, like, so what, you're going to trust your perception? No, there's stuff that goes through your brain, and your brain spits it out a certain way, right? So you're not seeing what's there. You're seeing what's there as filtered through your brain, right? So, you know, so who's to say that what we're seeing now is what it is? Or if you come out here and, let's say you're drunk and it's blurry. Like, is that, is that what's real? Like, you don't know that, like, that consciousness is what's true.

What's true consciousness? You know, I'm, you know, psychedelics or something that have really, you know, changed my life. And you go, wait a minute. You know, on these psychedelics, is this the consciousness that's reality or is it, is it, is this the consciousness that's reality? And you go, wait, what, what is reality? You know, it's just, it's what we see filtered through our brains. Which psychedelics specifically have helped you out. Absolutely, man.

Which ones? I don't like to say it flippantly. Well, the first thing was, you know, like LSD, you know, man. It's the first time I took that, you know, it was a handful of years ago now, probably 2015, was the first time I saw, like, wait a minute, things aren't what they seem. Wait a minute. Things, you know, in society, don't have to be this way. The way we're living, it's arbitrary.

There are no rules to this. And because we start to think that we have to be a certain way. The things have to be a certain way. Oh, I have to have this job. I have to go to work. I have to. It's like, no, you don't have to anything, man. There's one thing you have to do, and that's die.

everything else it's up to you you know and so that was the first time I saw okay the world isn't what what we think it is and then you start going down that that road more and more and more until you realize like okay like nothing is what it is nothing is what it is and it's like wow when you come to that realization that you know your experiences aren't your experiences your experiences are your perception of your experiences which means your perception which isn't necessarily correct is you know it's it's subjective so to kind of dumb this down for someone two people could have the exact same experience but then they might tell the story differently you know afterwards well I mean that that's I want to say something a little

bit different I mean okay we talk about storytelling it's like yeah man so as as human beings were we have this uh percolity uh different for storytelling like we we tell stories through so many things yeah humans love telling stories yes and and we tell these stories about ourselves and that that was one of the first thing like Darren Brown introduced this idea to me it's like we we tell stories about ourselves right about your history you know I I can say, you know, Jimmy Jacobs, you know, scratched and crawled and, you know, his parents didn't support him to go to college and be a lawyer or a judge or whatever my dad was.

And, you know, he did it. He fought the world. It's like, yeah, maybe. That's a story. It's also a story like, hey, man, you grew up really well. Your parents took care of you really well. And they weren't exactly supportive of your career, but they were supportive in so many different ways.

Like, no, you had a lot of help too. And those are both true, which means they're both not true, which means the way you view yourself isn't true at all, actually. The way you view yourself, these stories you tell about. yourself, it's made up, dude. It's all made up. The thing you are is made up. The thing I, the thing I think I am is made up. Everybody, it's all made up. And once I started to realize that, the pillars started to fall. I go, wait a minute, this is made up about me, and this is made up, and this is made up, and this is made up, and this is made up. And it's like, so what's

underneath that? And what's underneath all these stories we're telling ourselves, these ways we identify ourselves that are just things we like. But in the root of living life in America, you know, it is a truth that we need to have a place to live. We need food to eat, right? So we probably need money to get those things. If you, no, not necessarily, right? If you want to survive, right, you need to eat, right? Generally speaking, I would say. Do you need money? No, I mean, do you have a family? I do. Do you have a family love you? Yes. Hell yeah, man. That's great. Me too. I'm sure my parents would be like, oh, you want to come live with us? Absolutely. You know, if my brother's got, you know, five daughters and wife, if they were like, hey, mom, you know, mom and dad, move in. Yes,

great. You have friends that are probably like, oh yeah, Chris, come on in. Like, we don't, nothing has to be the way it is, man. This individualistic way that our culture is like, that's made up, dude. You know, for years and years and years and years and years, for the evolution of our species, it was all, you know, communities, tribes,

things that were close-knit, this individualistic way we live in the United States. Like, this is, this is so new. This is like 50 years new, the way things are going on now. So, no, nothing is what it is. We're going to take just a quick pause from our chat with Jimmy Jacobs to tell you about shipstation.com and when you're selling

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I mean, we're backstage here at Impact Wrestling. Yeah. You're a writer and producer here. How does this all tie into that? It ties into it because now I have a freedom from this business to enjoy this business, right? For so long, I felt like this is something I have to do. This was my dream. You know, I owe it to my 13-year-old self to keep on going, and I've worked so hard for this.

And the resting business had a hold on me. And all of a sudden, now, now it doesn't. Now it does. I do this because I enjoy it. I do it because hopefully it entertains people. Hopefully I can help the guys out backstage and help out with their careers. But the minute, the minute, I don't enjoy coming to work. I'm not going into work, man.

and I'll figure out what the next chapter of my life is. Like, it's fine. I can leave it all behind. I can just drop it and walk out the store. I don't care. So do you have dreams for yourself now? Well, that's the question, man. And I think that's the biggest thing in my life.

It's like, okay, what's next? Because you realize, okay, I can do whatever I want to do, man. This world is your playground. And, like, you know, you can go on whatever adventures you want. You can go, whatever rides you want. You can make it whatever you want. You go, okay, great. Now, what do you want?

It's like, oh, I don't know. So really, the thing I'm trying to do now is, you know, being open to the universe, you'd call it, like the universe or God or life or whatever. It's kind of like, you know, what's life asking of me? You know, just keeping my ears open to, wait a minute, maybe this is the track to go down. You know, just being open to, you know, you use the words like calling, you know, that sort of thing. Oh, okay. That's fine. We're all right?

Yeah. Okay. you still are working in the ring too. Yeah, yeah, man. I love performing. Yeah. That's great, man. It's great to get out there.

I get to play, dude. Somebody pays me to play. Just like, are you getting paid for this? Yeah. Yeah, man. You get paid to play. Well, I mean, I hopes if people are watching this, then, you know. Great, man.

Like, what a cool gig. That, I mean, that's always been my thing is my definition of success has always been if I can be excited for what I'm doing at the start of the day and proud at the end of the day. That's great. I love that. I love that, man. You can borrow that. That's a nice way to live. Because I think there's too many people that can't even enjoy Sunday because they know Monday's the next day and they got to go to a job that they hate.

Dreading it. You know, and that's no way to live. And you don't have to live that way. Nobody does, which is great. Well, and we now live in a world now where, you know, you're able to create opportunities for yourself. Absolutely. That didn't exist, you know, when you had to be a farmer or whatever, you know, you basically to do what you did to put food on the table to provide for your family. Yeah.

I mean, to an extent, you know, like, I'm big on land. So you say like had to, it's like, does anybody have to? What, like, what does anybody have to do? When somebody says, I have to go to work. It's like, do you have to? No, you can choose not to. You can not get that money and there's consequences for that, but you don't have to. You know, and there's other ways to get money.

And there's other ways to get what, get your needs met. Like I said, you know, families, communities, all these sort of things, like these alternative ways of living that, you know, you just, you just brush off, like, no, no, it needs to be like this. Nothing needs to be what it needs to be because nothing is what it is, you know? There is so. much more to you than I think people would ever see if they watch a Jimmy Jacobs match. And we're scratching the surface a little bit here.

Yeah. But your podcast really dives into this. It does, man. Yeah, it's called Jimmy Jacobs Doesn't Know. And, man, this is what I just talk to people about this. Like, I'm like, hey, man, I've been on this plant for 35 years. How old are you? 36.

So it's like, hey, basically it's like, hey, and you're 36 years. Like, what have you figured out? What do you? What, like, it's about, you know, the existential nature of things and the, like, how to live too, like the functionality of like what's the best way to live. It's like what is life and how should how should we live it? So it's kind of both those things. And so it's good. I talk to different people, some wrestlers, some non-wresters, but basically like, hey man, like how have you made it through life? Like what do you think this is about? Oh, you know, you're a comedian. Oh, is that because

when you were a child, you felt you needed to be funny to, you know, get love from your parents? Is that, you know, and you go, you go down that rabbit hole of like, you know, how you're you became who you are, who you think you are, all that stuff. It's interesting hearing these existentialists takes from Tommy Dreamer, Sammy Seine, Zach Gowen. I mean, everybody has a story to tell. Absolutely. But when you're talking, when you talk to a wrestler, not just about wrestling,

it's very fascinating to see what happens. Yeah, you don't know. And sometimes I feel like I'm fighting these uphill battle as far as like, you know, getting listeners or viewers because like, ah, you know, like I have a wrestling audience. The people that are into Jimmy Jacobs are into wrestling. So it'd probably be a little more popular if I, you know, watch Raw every week and gave my inside knowledge of the booking and the writing and where it's going and why might they do this and why they would do that and, you know, or talk to wresters about wrestling, about, you know, like, you know, for whatever I do, the creative process is what I know in wrestling. So it's like, yeah, man, there's probably a lot of people that want to hear that. But instead I'm going like, hey, you know, what's the nature of our existence do you think?

Do you think the self is created or discovered? Which one? It can be one or the other. Which one is it? But it may end up evolving into something else. That's why I did it. It was like, okay, I want to do something other than wrestling. I don't think this is the thing, but maybe this is the thing that leads me to the thing, that leads me to the thing.

That's what I think. Well, anyone watching this right now or listening to it on my podcast, we're going to make the audio version available. They are now aware of your podcast. Jimmy Jacobs doesn't know. Awareness is the first thing in making any sort of change in your life. It's awareness. First, got to be aware of it, right? Are you still watching Raw?

No. At all? No, no, no. No. The only wrestling I watch is impact wrestling. You know, and that's because, like, part of it is, dude, I'm not obsessed with wrestling anymore. I've got a healthy relationship with it because, like, I lean into the things I like about it,

and I back off the things that I don't, you know? So it's like, yeah, I don't want to watch wrestling every week. That doesn't bring enjoyment into my life. So great, it's done. You know, I feel no obligation to watch it. What do you do with that time? What do I do with my time? No, with that time that you would have spent, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I. Dude, I'm reading a lot of books. That's a thing. I listen to, you know, different podcasts, different interviews. I mean, the thing I'm doing on my podcast is basically what I do every day in my life. Okay. You know, that. Who's really inspiring you in terms of authors or podcasts?

I mean, you know, Russell Brand was, you know, his book recovery really reshaped the frame in which I saw recovery in, which was really, it was life changing, nothing sure of life, life changing. And even, man, like, man, I heard Russell Brand on Pete Holmes podcast. And Pete Holmes has basically gone through the exact same thing I've gone through. So all his stuff, you know, Pete Holmes? He's a comedian. Yeah, yeah. Right?

But all his stuff is like super like spiritual, I guess he would call it. Because he's basically gone through the exact same thing I've gone through. And I read his book and I go, great. This is the person. This is the first time somebody's put towards the way that I feel. put towards what I've gone through and what I've experienced. I'm like, yes, it's this. Like, yes, this same thing, yes.

So, yeah, it's great. So that's what you're doing instead of watching wrestling? Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're happy to not be working at WWE? Dude, I'm so grateful that I don't work for WB. It's nothing against WB. I'm so grateful for the time I had there. Man, it was life changing.

It changed my life and brought me in the path that I'm on now and has allowed me to, you know, to work here and to be somebody that, you know, they reached out to come, and help them out. It's like great. You know, WB was such an integral part of the journey that I'm on right now. So it's great.

But yeah, man, I don't miss that place even for a second. It's just crazy, you know, from the outside looking in that it was a photo that basically led to your demise there, which is, it seems so innocent. Well, I mean, when I did it, I knew it might make some people upset. But at that point in my life, I didn't care. I wasn't trying to not get fired anymore. Because for so long I was there just trying to not get fired. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. They might fire me. Oh, my God. They might fire me. At that point, I was like, yeah, yeah, I don't care. You know what? From now on, they have Jimmy Jacobs. And what comes with that is whatever comes with Jimmy Jacobs, whatever comes with this character

that I've, you know, created in life for myself. Yeah. With all the whatever eccentricies or whatever people might say about it. There's a great. And that's it. And so, you know, I think Vince, Vince had a problem with that in general. Because, you know, whatever. I wear a suit and tie.

And my tie's pink. And it's like, God, he dresses so gimmicky. You know, it's like stuff like that. Like, I can't please the crazy man. So I think when, when, I don't know how I got fired exactly, but I'm guessing got brought to his attention. And he just took it as this sign of, okay, here's this guy. He's just trying to get himself over again.

He's out. Which they did for me what I could have never done for myself. I would have stayed there another 10 years and been miserable and hated life, just like most of the other writers there. I don't want to speak for them, but there's a lot of unhappiness there. So they did that for me, man. And I was blessed with that being fired. Is this a happier work environment for you here?

I mean, happy is a funny word. Like, what is happiness? I don't know what words to use with you. I know. Well, you have to think about this. It's like, what is happy? Like, happiness seems like an emotion. Like, what kind of emotion?

Well, it's, you know, it's joyous, but it's fleeting, right? So happy. It's like, am I happy here all the time? No, you're not happy, but do I get fulfillments out of it? Yes. Is it a healthy work environment? Yes. Do I have nice communications with my?

bosses yes do they respect me yes to the talent respect me yes do I feel free to to contribute to that I'm able to contribute to be my best self to let my my talent shine through yes I only said happy because you said unhappy about the other situation right I figured that would be the opposite right yeah yeah I was it was not what it just wasn't a healthy situation for me I found I want to speak for anybody again but generally speaking people in WB do not seem it does not seem to be a work environment like conducive to people's like, you know,

feeling good or enjoying themselves. It breeds a lot of insecurity, a lot of, you know, discontentment, a lot. You probably just had a lot of free time after you got let go. Not really, man. Really?

Well, I mean, especially when I first got fired, there was this like hot 15 minutes where I was like really in demand, which was like really fun. It was like, it was so much fun, man. I got fired like a month later. I'm like, God, this is awesome. You know, getting fired for, you know,

running an angle with the young bucks was a great idea, right? And so, yeah, man, but I keep pretty busy, and I keep pretty busy at Impact, man. You know, I just came off of, we had like three days of creative in Canada and flew right here for three days, and I'll go home and I'll start working on the scripts for the shows and we go to Mexico in a couple weeks.

And so, yeah, man, I stay busy enough, but, like, I still have time to do what it is that I do. I think there still are a lot of fans, though, that go, there's a full-on script for the shows I'm watching. I think people are really surprised by that. Yeah, yeah, guys, wrestling's fake. And then people know that, but they just figure, like, I think a lot of people from the outside looking and think it's like, okay, you're going to beat him and this is the finish. Yeah, no.

See, a lot of thought is put into, you know, the stories and, you know, what the angles are and putting it all together. It's a lot of pieces you got to move around and put into play. It's kind of like a Rubik's cube. You put it together. You move one thing and everything else moves around. You're trying to write a lot of weeks of TV. So you're trying to, you know, create continuity between this and this and this and this guy doing. You've got to make this guy strong.

Got to keep this guy hot. You know, all this sort of stuff, and you just try to do it the best you can. And, yeah, it's fun, it's challenging. The first interview I did with Jerry, or the most recent interview I did with Chris Jericho, he gave you a lot of credit for the list. Yeah, man, I came up with that. Yeah. Is there anything else that you were super proud of in WWA?

The stuff with Kevin and Owens and Chris Jericho was like, The best friend stuff? Yeah, that was the, like, the crowning stuff of my time there, doing all that with them, you know, coming up with the list of Jericho, whatever involvement I had in writing the festival of, friendship. That day it was like, yes, like the culmination of this thing we did.

Like, yeah, man, like, that's cool, dude. Like, a lot of it's cool. A lot of WDB is really fun, except there's like one, like, black cloud that hangs over the entire place. And that's, that's the crazy man. And it just it just creates this environment where people aren't trying to do

what's best. They're not trying to, you know, come up with the best segment or have the best match, do the most creative thing or the thing that's best to the fans. It's just like, what's the crazy man, going to yell me about and that's it man that they ain't no way to run that place so he can bring in paul haman and eric bischoff and you know whoever he wants and bill wats and who whatever bookers from the past he can he can move all these pieces around dude but as long as this piece is on the board the game is going to get played the same man i feel like raw has changed a

little bit over the last few weeks yeah well i don't know if that's haman's influence or not so i mean Vince, I'll say this, man, his feet up, or feet are starting to get up against the fire. You know, AW, a little bit, but more like ratings are growing down, and they're about to go on Fox. And if the way things keep, you know, trending, the way they're trending, they're going to get murdered on Fox. And that was a big, big money deal. So I could see, I could see him doing some things that he wouldn't to normally do otherwise because there's some pressure on him. And this isn't to say all of Vince is bad, because, man, if you blame the guy for every, everything that's bad, you gotta give him credit for everything that's good.

For sure. He built this empire. And there's so many things, anytime you see something good on TV, you gotta go like, Vince, Vince let that happen. Maybe he wasn't the one that said, hey, make it happen, but he at least allowed it to happen. So you have to give him his due in that. Well, and I think that there's a lot of recency bias here. It's easy to see the bad things that are going on now and easy to forget the bad things

that happened 20 years ago. People look at the attitude there and go, it was the best. Well, Naked Midian was also running around back then. Yeah, a lot of bad stuff. And, you know, May Young gave birth to a hand and, you know, a lot of other stuff. But, you know, it's easy to go, yeah, but Stone Cold, and The Rock and Undertaker and Triple H and all that stuff was really good. And it was really good. It was really good.

It was also some stuff that wasn't very good. Yep. But hot time in the business. And, you know, it took balls to make that happen. And, you know, Vince has tried to make the product so, I don't know, they're sterile. You know, to get, you know, sponsorship. ships and all that sort of stuff and it worked really hard and it got to commend him for that but also also he's just got his grip on things man he likes to micro manage things and look it's his show

he gets to do that you know I'm not saying it's like oh this is wrong this is an injustice like no man you know once you have a billion dollars you can you can do your show however you want right that's what my mantra in life is not my show dude if it was my show this is how we do it but you know what it's not my show so so you know all I can do is is give my suggestions. All they can do is do the best I can do. But everything else, man, outside of this bubble, it's out of my control, man.

That ain't my show out there. If we circle back to what you were saying earlier, talking about how you're kind of circling towards a truth now. What is that truth? What is the truth? Yeah. It's something like, it's something like none of us are who we think we are. What we are is the awareness inside of us,

the thing that they're seeing out of our. our eyes, the rest of it is just kind of a character we've created or preferences that the bodies we live in have. You know, we're kind of all, basically all in these spacesuits, more or less, the same thing, but we're the same thing. Like you and I are the same thing. We're consciousness, we're awareness, you know, just like Willie Mack over there and Johnny Yuma over there.

Like, we're the same thing. And so you look like, okay, it's not different. It's all the same. and and there's more to it. There's something else. There's another thing. It's like there's something with a shared consciousness or something. This great mystery that one would call God or the universe or life or truth or love

that sort of encompasses everything. But I can say for certain what I know. There's one thing I know right now. Because there's one thing to know. Because everything else is like I said, it's just your, your perception of things. So the only thing I know is I have perception. That's it.

I am. I have awareness. I have consciousness. That's all I can say for certain. Which is good. It's like it's good to have like one thing. I go, okay, this is this is for certain. Everything else, who knows?

Yeah. But for certain like I am. I have the consciousness. I have this thing, the same thing that you have. You know, I think so far as you exist. So far as I can tell you exist, right? I guess so. So that's cool.

It's a good, it's a good. I mean, I want to say starting place, new starting place, you know, to wipe out every. And I don't expect to get there, man. And that's the weird thing about this, right? You know, we have these identities for ourselves. And I didn't expect to lose mine. I didn't expect to go into a journey and go, wait a minute, I'm not this. And I'm not this.

And this is made up. And if I'm not this, I'm not this. And this belief I had, well, it's just a belief, which means it's not even true. And this is gone. And this is gone. All these things that I thought I was, and I realized, like, no, I'm just, you know, playing a character. You know, these are just things I, you know, happen to identify myself as that aren't, that aren't real things. They're just, they're stories.

Yeah. And all these stories are subjective. And I go, then what the hell is underneath it all? They go, oh, consciousness. That's what's underneath at all. On a very surface level, I do that with a lot of people that are like, oh, I could never hit the dance floor. I'm like, of course you could. Yes.

You're choosing not to. And that's everything. You could never have a YouTube channel like yours. Yes, you could, because I'm doing it, and you could do it. I think way too many people have limiting beliefs. Absolutely. Of course. Well, any belief is limiting, because any belief, there's like, you know, I was thinking

about the term false belief the other day. I go, a false belief, that's a bit redundant. Because any belief, any belief is malleable. You can believe anything you want. So these ways we define ourselves that hold us into these boxes. You know, for a long time, you know, I'm an emotional guy, right? That was me. I'm just an emotional guy.

I'm just an emotional guy. So that gave justification for acting however we want it. Like, oh, yeah, my emotions. I just go where the wind takes me however I want. And I go, wait a minute. No, no, no. That's just a habit that I've gotten into, that I haven't learned to manage my emotions. And now I'm working on that.

And now I'm better at that. And all of a sudden, oh, I'm not an emotional guy. Oh, how about that? So this thing that I thought I was, I wasn't. So we all think, oh, I'm just impatient. Like, no, you're not. You're not impatient. You're choosing to be impatient.

and you work on patients. And all of a sudden, okay, now I'm a patient guy. So if you could be an inpatient guy or a patient guy and anywhere in between, it's like, okay, so that's not you. Because that's, you know, what's you at your core? Well, if that can change or that can change, that's not you, is it? That's, you know, you can take that off. That's not you.

Like this noise. Yeah. You should make a shirt that makes that noise. That's what happened, man. Like, it happened with me when this girl, I was talking to this girl, and she goes, Chris, you're so wise. And I go, yes, yes, I am. And I'm just all of a sudden.

I'm transported back to being like three, four, five, six years old. And I have one older brother who was kind of wild, so he got attention. But me, I got attention when I was smart. And when you're young, you equate attention with love. And here I am 30 years later, still doing the same thing. Jimmy Jacobs is a genius. Yes, yes, I'm a genius. Still doing the same thing, you know, playing this character of somebody who's smart

because it was a survival tactic I had as a child. So it's like, wait a minute, I'm not a smart guy. I'm playing a character of somebody who's smart. I've used it as a coping mechanism. It's like, I'm not my coping mechanisms. I know that. So that's not me. And I go, wait a minute.

If I'm not, if I'm not my intelligence, I'm not in my creativity, which means I'm not my career, which means, oh my gosh. And I thought I was an emotional guy, but I'm not emotional. So, and you just keep going down. And it's like, what the fuck? What's here? What's underneath here? And to find that, you know, what it is.

It's like, oh, that's cool. Look, I want to be respectful of your time because I know you were getting called away here. That's fine. Everybody live until they don't. Will they? Until they don't, man, right? That's all of us.

I'm very interested to see what everyone takes out of this. Yeah. Because I've taken a lot out of this. I hope that, you know, this has been good for you too. Yeah, man. I enjoy jamming about this sort of stuff. This is great. Yeah, this is where I'm at now.

Well, your podcast, we'll mention it again. Jimmy Jacobs doesn't know. Yeah, dude. Available wherever you're listening to this podcast, if you're listening to this, an audio version. If you're watching this on YouTube, we'll drop a link below here so you can check that out. I appreciate this. Hey, man.

Thanks so much. I didn't know what to expect. Here it is. You never know what to expect out of life. And that's the beauty of it, dude. Here it is. It's just, it's just, it's this crazy, wild ride, and we get to be on it, dude. And that's awesome.

That's what I love. This was awesome. All right. Thank you, man. Thank you, bud. That is awesome. There you go. There's a lot to unpack from that interview with Jimmy Jacobs, both about the wrestling world,

just about life in general. Congrats to him for being clean. It was really inspiring to hear his story about rehab and that he's clean. now. And thank you to Jimmy for making the time to do this interview. It was very last minute, and we put it together, and it was a great chat. Thank you to you for listening. Thank you for the reviews. You've been leaving on Apple Podcasts. And while we're talking about podcasts, you can give Jimmy's a listen. One more time, it's called Jimmy Jacobs doesn't know. Thanks to shipstation.com, you can use the code blue, B-L-U-E, to get 60 days for free.

use the code Chris 15 at greenroadsworld.com for 15% off your CBD products. Also, thank you to Samson Technologies for making us sound as good as we do. So this is the second of four interviews I did last weekend in Los Angeles at the Impact Wrestling show. I just uploaded my chat with Impact World Champion Brian Cage. And then there's this one, so that's two. And then you can keep an eye out for my interviews with Melissa Santos. and Ethan Page. Both great chats should be out in the next, probably the next week or so.

And if you're enjoying this, aside from just leaving the reviews, which are awesome, take a screenshot. Tag me on Instagram, tag me on Twitter, let me know that you're listening. Let me know what you think of the show. And I'm going to leave you with this quote from Brian Tracy, which I think is very applicable after this conversation with Jimmy Jacobs. It goes like this. There are no limits on what you can achieve in your life,

accept the limits you accept in your own mind. Mm-hmm. There you go. Have a good one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

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