Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Jimmy Korderas On Owen Hart's Fall, His Problem With Some Current Referees, Friendship With Edge

Episode Date: December 29, 2022

Jimmy Korderas (@jimmykorderas) is a professional wrestling referee, commentator and broadcaster known for his 22-year tenure with WWE from 1987 to 2009. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about how he got started in the pro wrestling industry by accident, getting a job with WWE, going from setting up the ring to being a referee, some of his favorite people to work with, the biggest mistakes he sees referees make now, being in the ring the day Owen Hart died at Over The Edge 1999 and much more! For more information about Chris Van Vliet and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. So good to see you, my friends. Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. It's your friendly neighborhood, CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you so much for being with us. And thank you for making Insight one of the top podcasts in the world. I took a little peak the other day, a little peak ski at the wrestling podcast charts.

And all I can say is thank you. So cool to see us. there as one of the top wrestling podcasts in the world. I know that we don't just talk to wrestlers on the show. I mean, it's been a pretty crazy year talking to literally everyone from all kinds of different walks of life, but just really, really grateful for all of the support, not just this week or this month or this year, but ever since the podcast started in 2019 and also ever since the YouTube channel started back in, man, back in 2011.

just really, really grateful for you. And today's guest is someone that I've wanted to have on the show for a long time. Jimmy Corderas is a fellow Canadian. And I mean, think of the career that he had in WWE for 20 plus years. He has seen it all, refereeing matches with some of the biggest names in the business. And I just got to say, if you love this conversation, and I'm sure you will, make sure to check out Jimmy's book called The Three Count, My Life and Stripes, as a WWE referee.

He released it almost 10 years ago. He released it in 2013, but it's just full of so many great stories. And the foreword there was written by Edge. So I know you're going to love this conversation. Please share this with a friend and take a screenshot. Tag us on social media so we can share this out as well. It's just our names.

Jimmy is at Jimmy Corderas. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And a big shout out to Agent 27 for leaving this review on Apple Podcasts. Santa Claus believes in CVV, man. The Chris Van Vlead Show features an outstanding list of guests granting insight into the world of pro wrestling for those who work hard, not just in the ring, but also behind the curtain, kind of like today's episode.

Chris has a talent for asking poignant questions like a good journalist, but his enthusiasm as a wrestling fan always shines through. And what does this have to do with Santa? Well, Chris's positive attitude and passion for what he does hasn't gone unnoticed, and his signature sign-off makes for some great advice. So much so that this year's letter from Santa to my kids included this very important message. Be great, be grateful. Wow, that is, that's very cool.

Agent 27. Well, you actually wrote it in Roman numerals, Agent X, X, V, V, I, I. You know, I put that together. Oh, that's 27. That's what that means. Thank you for the very kind words. Appreciate you listening here, and that's a really nice message from San Diego. be great, be grateful. I love that. So please, we read one review on every single podcast. So if you have some time,

if you have Apple podcasts on your phone, leave a few words and we'll read it out here. All right, here we go. It's me and Jimmy Cordara's on Insight. You know, the thing that Canadians love talking about more than anything is like who's from Canada, right? Like, you know, anytime you see a celebrity like, you know, they're from Canada. You know, they're from Canada. You know, Justin Bieber, he was one of ours, right? Nickelback, I'm naming two awful ones here, but Shania Twain, and one of ours. So always good to connect to the fellow Canadian. Oh, man, it's great to be on here, Chris.

Thank you for inviting me on. And yeah, it's funny how we gravitate towards fellow Canadians when, especially in the sports and entertainment industry, like even in the NFL or Major League Baseball, whatever the case may be, it's, we gravitate towards other Canadians. And we said, yes, he's from Canada. Awesome. He's from Calgary, Alberta, Canada, because that's what you have to pronounce it.

You have to pronounce the city, the province, and the country at the end. And it's always funny when people will be like, oh, you know, they're from Toronto, Canada. You're like, no, no, you miss the middle one. Yeah. That'd be like saying you're from Los Angeles, United States. Like, no, you got to say the province in there. Exactly. Thank you to the WWF at the time for ingreening that in us with Brett Hart all those years.

And also Lance Storm, every promo. He was from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Yes, yeah, very much. And that's where he got it from. That's exactly where he got it from. Well, it's always good to talk to a fellow Canadian. And Jimmy, you are a legend. So I'm just honored to have you on the show.

Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. I hope I could live up to expectations. The interesting thing is, you know, when you talk to somebody like you, who's a referee, I had Mike Kyoto on not long ago, you learned that what you see on camera being a referee is like only just the tip of the iceberg of what you actually do as a job. So what were all of the many hats that you wore there? Well, just to give a quick recap, I started working for Jack Tunney when he was associated

with the WWF at the time in 1985. And I was the go-to guy for, we need this. Can you do this for me? Can you do that for me? He hands me the keys to his Fleetwood Cadillac, this big monster and say, you know, go to the airport Marriott and pick up Andre the Giant and Timmy White. And I'm like, you know, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to stay cool. Yeah.

At the same time, like, I'm, oh, wow, I'm going to go pick up Andre. You know, go pick up Hulk and his wife or something like that, you know. And then I got to get familiar with. all the main players, like a Paterson. From Canada, by the way. From the province of Quebec, Canada. And Pat used to come to all the shows as an agent

because they used to do Sunday nights at Maple Leaf Gardens every three weeks. And on the Monday afterwards, they would do wrestling challenge. They would take that at the Brantford Civic Center in Brantford, Ontario, Canada, which is about maybe an hour, hour and a half drive from Toronto.

And, you know, I was one of the, they called it a minibus, but it was basically a maxi van that I would shuttle talent back and forth with from Toronto to Brantford. And Pat used to sit up front with me and he'd jaw jack and stuff like that. And he was, Pat was a great guy, fun guy. Always kidding. I love having a good time. And then one day he walks up to Jack and he says, hey, Jack, you know, we got the kid here. He does all this stuff for us before and after the show. During the show, he's kind of

hanging around waiting for something to do. Why don't we use it? We'll make him a referee. Jack looks at him and says, yeah, but do we want to smarten the kid up? And Pat goes, he's in the locker room with the boys. He's hanging out. He's, you know, he sees what's going on. Yeah, yeah. Let's use him. Pat just came up and he said, okay, we're going to eventually make you a referee get yourself black sneakers, black pants, a blue shirt and a black bowtie, carry it with you all the time. And that's what I did. And how old were you at this time? Oh, okay.

I'm dating myself. So this was in 86, somewhere in, you know, the back half of 86. So I'm like 24 years old. Wow. And I didn't know enough to ask questions. But I was watching the referees as they went along. So in February of 87, they were running, we scum house shows now they're called live events in New Market, Ontario, Canada. And the main agent there was Chief Jay Strongboat, who I had become very close with at the time too.

And he says, Jimmy Jam, he had a nickname for everybody. Jimmy Jam, you got your ref gear with you. And I said, yes, Chief, I do. He says, go put it on. You're refing tonight. And I was like, okay, I didn't want to say, but I don't know what I'm doing. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So I said, I said, okay, he says, you're refting SD Jones versus the red demon who was Jose Luis Rivera. He says, get with them. They'll tell you what they. So, again, another, thank goodness, it was SD because SD and I were friends. And I said, SD, I'm riffing your match tonight. He says, oh, that's awesome. I said, but I've never refereed a match for a while. He says, stay close to me.

I'll talk you through it, which he did. And, you know, then I realize, okay, now go to the other referee, start asking questions, asking to watch the matches and give me feedback and that sort of thing. And I progress from there and then eventually led to, you know, starting to do TV. Well, it's such an interesting position because you're the third man in the ring, but if you're doing your job well, people don't notice that you're there. So it's this like, if you're doing it right, sorry to interrupt, but if you're doing it right. Oh, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. If you're doing it right, nobody sees that you're there. And like, that's an intricate balance, right, of being part

of the match, but not by actually, you know, interjecting yourself into the match. Right. You're not there to be the star. The star is the drawing is the talent that is in the ring. You're there to help them tell their story without being a part of the story. Unless, of course, there's a spot in a match where they need you to, whatever the case may be, you know, be distracted by this or or take a bump or whatever the case may be. But let's say, for example, two wrestlers come to the center of the ring, especially on television, which is very important. And they do a face to face. Yeah.

Your initial thought is to kind of stand between them. So to keep them separated, but at the same time, if you're standing in the middle, who's in the middle of the screen? The referees face. Stand off to the side. Let them have their moment. Let it breathe. Let the audience absorb this.

You know what I mean? Unfortunately, nowadays you see too many referees in, you know, kind of. overly interjecting themselves. Let's put it that way and standing out a little too much, in my opinion. I don't think we need to name names, but I think when you say that there's a few people who immediately pop into your mind, it's interesting because, you know, when I started, I was a big wrestling fan. Basically, attitude air is what I really got into wrestling. And I was obviously aware of it before that, but the attitude error is when I really got into it. And every referee had a name. And somewhere along the line, that stopped being a thing. Like,

When did that stop? That stopped after I had left in 2009. All of a sudden it was like, yes, we know that the referees are not to be a focal point. And for some reason, I couldn't give you a reason why, because that was someone else's decision. We don't need to name the referees and put any kind of focus on them. But if you watch any sport out there, and, you know, obviously professional wrestling, is sports entertainment as much as the hardcore fans dislike that terminology. That's exactly what it is.

Yeah. And they try to emulate real sport. So in real sport, you have referee Bill Friday. You have referee Herb Dean and MMA or a big John McCarthy. Yeah. You know, so it's a little recognition, but at the same time, they're not making them the focal point. It's just, it's kind of like a little shout out. Yeah.

So there's nothing wrong with that, but they've gotten back now. now under, it seems like under the Hunter regime to at least acknowledge good job by referee so-and-so or a nice call by referee so-and-so. Because for so long it was just the official. Like, what a bad call by the official. It's like, well, I'm sure they have a name. Come on. Yeah, it was, again, under the assumption that under the, not assumption, but under the thought

logic that the, you know, the referee is not there to be a distraction or a focal point, but that you sometimes you can go a little bit too far. And that was one of the things I think they went a little too far with, with, you know, nameless referee. Yeah. So before you got in with Jack Tunney, what did you want to be? What did you want to do for a living? I don't, I really was on the fence because I thought I was going to take, my dad was a, a mechanic. And he, you know, owned a garage in Greek town in Danforth, which was kind of cool. And I used to, you know, work there with, him and then I got some other jobs outside because I discovered that being a mechanic was not my calling and I gravitated to wrestling I used to go to every show at Maple Leaf Gardens I had as a fan

and I went to the office one day and secured what would be the equivalent of season's tickets I would have the same seats for every show and if you remember back in the day maybe we've gardens had that ramp that went from the entryway all the way to the ring level with the rank i was second row ring side right beside that ramp and one of my hobbies was taking pictures and what i would do is i would take pictures and they used to have a place up here called direct film where you double your prints for a dollar so i get my prints developed i keep a set for myself and i take the second set to the next show and sell them for two bucks a picture which would help fuel my wrestling habit, pay for it.

You know, it was kind of cool. And I got discovered, Iliosolenga was working for Jack Tunney at the time. And I didn't realize who he was. And he comes up to me outside the gardens one day and says, can I see your pictures? I said, yeah, absolutely. Here you know. He says, how much are they?

He said, two bucks each. He goes, you can't do that. He said, why can't I do that? Who are you? And he told me who he was. And he worked for Jack Tunney. He says copyright and all this stuff he's going on about. Oh, no.

He says, but you take pretty good pictures. So, you know what? Just don't do it in front of the gardens. Go move down the street a little bit where you're not where everybody can see you. And then one day he says, you know what, I'm going to introduce you to Jack. So he introduced me to Jack saying, you know, maybe I could bring you on board. Because him and I became friends now. You know, I'd see him at indie shows and stuff like that.

And he said, I'll introduce you to Jack. Maybe you can help me out take pictures for incite. And I'm like, oh, this is going to be cool. Yeah. So he introduced me to Jack. He says, well, we don't need another photographer, but we'll find something for the kid. Wow. Which led into what happened afterwards, which we already talked about.

Was there any point where you wanted to be a wrestler? Yeah, of course that thought comes into your head. But when you're there and you're watching it up close and personal and seeing, the icing and all the soreness that goes on backstage, sometimes it hit you and you go, oh boy. I say to my friends a lot because I actually trained. I trained in Toronto at the squared circle when I was 20. And I only trained for a few months because it was in between me going to school

in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. I went to Wolfram Laurier. And I kind of had to decide, do I continue with wrestling school or school school? And I decided, you know, I want to get my degree in communications and I'll figure out the rest of them there. I always say to my friends that all my friends that are wrestlers that are about my age, they get some pain when they get out of bed in the morning.

And oh, look at that. Yeah. And I'm fortunate that when I get out of bed in the morning, my knees don't hurt. My neck doesn't hurt. The back doesn't hurt. And I think, I feel like I made the right decision as a result of that. Yeah. So when you get in there with WWF at the time, what's the first?

big break for you. First big break? Yeah. In what regard? In referee? Yeah, maybe it's a match. Maybe it's someone kind of pulling you aside and going, Jimmy, you're doing great work. Again, it was more along the lines of just listening to people and getting great coaching and, you know, learning from some some esteemed veterans.

Like, I already mentioned Paterson. Gerald Briscoe was a big help. Chief Jay Stronggoe, again, Renee Goulet, Tony Garria. Those are all the agents that were a big help of them. You know, obviously David Habner was a big help back in the day, you know, and their role as well, all those guys. Timmy White was awesome. So I had a wealth of veterans to learn from and absorb and be a sponge.

What was the first big match where you went, oh, my God. I can't believe I'm going to be in the ring with so-and-so. Oh, wow. Oh, trying to think back. I'm trying to think back. Big match. I mean, that's in the era. Maybe it was the first Hover match.

No, that, yeah, I did a Hogan, Mr. Perfect match at Maple Leaf Gardens. Wow, that's a pretty good one. Which is pretty cool. But being a part of the very first Survivor Series in 1987, was very cool. and doing the women's match, you know, with the jumping bomb angels and, you know, and fabulous Moulon and that kind of stuff. Being a part of the first Royal Rumble that ever took place at Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Wow.

You're like an encyclopedia of wrestling knowledge. This is just amazing. I just wish I could remember it all. Sometimes I need some... Too many ref bumps? Too many ref bumps over the years, yes. We'll get into this. that, but actually, I'm just interested about that.

I feel like when refs take a bump, it's a different style of bump. It's not the traditional flatback bump. Right, right. Is that because you're not trained or is it because you're trying to make it look like you're not trained? Part B, you don't want to look like you're taking a bump as a trained professional wrestler. It has to look a little bit off, let's put it that way.

you don't want to do it in a way where you hurt yourself. At the same time, like you said, it shouldn't be a clean flat back and where the audience, especially the fan goes, yeah, he's taken bumps before. He knows how to take it. Yeah, yeah. It should, awkward, maybe. It should look a little off.

It's like a slight turn to the side, you know, and then you guys always hide your face so you can't see anything that's going on. Right. Well, so at least it looks like you can't. see where it's going on. Right. But that's, there's definitely an art to it. When you took your first bump,

were you prepared at all? Did anyone help you? Not so much. The first real, real big bump I took was actually on television. I even remember the town. Glens Falls, New York. It was on superstars. And it was the 747 from the one-man gang.

he had he was of course back in the day when they had enhancement talent Dave Stude Meyer he beats him with the 747 I count three I raise his hand he pushes me to the side picks him up again and hits him with it again now I get in his face and I start giving him crap for you know hey the match is over stop whatever you're doing and all of a sudden he hooks me and he gives me the 747 and I got with him before the match I said there anything you need me to do he says just when I get you up make sure you got your legs up so it looks like you're, you know, straight up so you look higher.

And, you know, and just I will protect your face with my arm. What you did is cool. He says, try to land as flat as you can. And I think I did okay because when I got to the back, you know, some of the guys are coming, Jimmy, are you okay? So yeah, I'm fine. You know, even Pat came up. Jimmy, are you okay?

Cool. Okay. And they were happy with it. But it was this weird feeling of adrenaline that I had, which is probably the reason why I didn't feel anything. Do you know what if you get what I'm trying to convey here? It was just like, this is awesome. I'm taking this huge bump on television. And, you know, because of all this, the juice is flowing inside, you know, you kind of just telling myself, lay here, lay here, you're the referee. You shouldn't move. And that's all I kept thinking to

myself. Was there any part of you that wanted more of that? Because like, I remember when Teddy Long was a referee. And, you know, then Teddy Long went on to be very well. well-known face, especially on Smackdown as a general manager. Did you ever want to dip your tone to that world? Thoughts were there, but at the same time, I also was thinking along the lines of, you know, as a referee, you have more longevity than as an on-air talent or something like that. Because, you know, even Teddy Long as a referee, eventually, as a general manager, for example, that runs its course eventually as a referee, unless they're tired of your worker, you can't.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So as long as you're doing your job correctly as a referee, there's no reason for them to let you go. If you're not performing on television or they're tired of your persona and they want to move you on, you always run that risk as a personality. When you wake up in the morning, after all of the years and the decades spent as a referee, does anything on you hurt right now? I've been away from it long enough where stuff has calmed down, but I used to, believe it or not,

the sometimes like the shoulder and all because people you know especially in w w i remember one in one in particular uh i was doing a false count anywhere match in madison square garden uh and it was a televised deal and i was counting and you know you're counting on concrete so you're not slapping as hard and of course i hear in my earpiece uh you're gonna need hit a little harder no i mean yeah so so i was feeling it there but in the ring too you're hitting kind of hard because you want to that pounding sound, and it's that sudden stop that kind of jars your joints. And then I discovered that wearing sleeves under my pants for my knees with padded knees

was a definite help. But you feel it. You do feel it. Obviously, not as much as the boys do, taking those big bumps. But it does do some wear and tear on your body. That's like repetitive motion. It's only on one side, too. Exactly.

Exactly. What about when you're doing the really close two and seven, eights, and you're stopping right before hitting three? What's the key to that? See, that's a difficult one because you know it's not the finish and you want to make it look as close as possible. Sometimes it's okay at times to look like you're trying to stop it, hit the canvas, but wave it off. you know, especially on a really, really close false finish. You know, not doing it all the time, just, you know, on a rare occasion, that that would translate pretty good on television, I think.

But I'm not going to say any, but there are some referees out there today who have a tell on false finishes. And unfortunately, I'll give you an example. When SummerSlam was here in Toronto in 2019, I believe it was, You know, the guys from our show were at the event, and we did a little thing there with the WWE guys. And with the producer, I was sitting beside the producer of our show, and there was a match going on.

And he goes, oh, I thought that was it. And I went, nah. He says, yeah, but you know, I said, no, I don't know what's going on in this match. I'm just watching. He said, oh, I thought that was it. And I went, mm-mm. He says, what's going on here? I said, well, the referee has a tell.

And he goes, really? What is it? I said, I don't want to tell you. Oh. he says okay okay and then it happened again and he goes come on you got to tell me

so I told him what it was yeah he says yeah I shouldn't ask you to tell me because now I can't unsee it wow so ever since that moment yeah and all my critiquing that I do

and analyze I will not give away a referee's tell on a false finish because if I do then whoever watches it after that kind of says yeah yeah I see it kind of like learning how the magician does his trick

Kind of sort of, yeah. Yeah. When referees reach out to you and they're asking for advice, what's the biggest thing that you think that up-and-coming referees need to work on? How to look involved without being a focal point. Like I said, for example, the face-to-face. Don't stand in between. Be there for the talent. Be close by so you can hear them and they can hear you.

But again, don't be a visual distraction. don't oversell things. Like there's referees out there that when someone gets punched in the face, they grab their chin like they got punched. It's okay to react. You know, subtle reactions like, ooh, ooh, that looked like it hurt. Ooh, that was, you know.

But if you're going, oh, and like, oh, and, you know, you get kicked to the ribs and you're, you know, grabbing your ribs and stuff like that. No, stop selling what's happening to them. It's okay to react and make it look like, hey, boy, that looked like it hurt. That's the art. What's the thing that's hurt you the most?

What's the ref bump for you that you went, that didn't go quite as planned? Oh, WrestleMania 4. I remember this. You don't remember it, I guess. Yeah, it was the match between the honky top man and Brutus of Barbered Beefcake. And Brutus gets honky in the sleeper hole. Jimmy Hart pops up on the apron. I go over to Jimmy trying to get him to get down.

He says, okay, I'll get down. I'll get down. As I turn my back, he waffles me with the megaphone, which was fine. But I'm supposed to bump down on my face, you know, so like so. And what happened was I put my hands on. My hands slid out. My chin hit the canvas and it hit the sweet spot. Oh.

That was it. Lights out. Lights out. Last thing I remember, next thing I remember is being kind of escorted out by the other referees and Danny Davis hooking me by the back of the belt, dragging my feet. And when we got to the back, he was doing me crap.

He says, why were you dead waiting us out there? And I said, dude, I was out. The other one, the other one that really, it was Ban Ban Bigelow's debut

after Royal Rumble on Raw. And he was wrestling Savio Vega. And, you know, he shoots Savio outside the ring. I get in, I get in in Bam's face. He grabs me and he headbutts.

me. But he headbutted me. And I went, oh, then he headbutted me a second time and I chipped the tooth. Wow. And then he throws me outside the ring right beside Savio. And Savio looks at me and goes, you're okay? And I broke my tooth. And he goes, and he put his arm around me while we're out, both on the outside ring or just stay here, don't move. Wow. When you're preparing for a match and you know there's a ref bump there. How do you keep it in your mind of like, you know this is coming up, but you don't want to blow the spot?

Right. The whole idea, yeah, you don't want to blow the spot or blow the bump, but you also don't want to give it away that you're taking one at the same time. Yeah.

You know, that's the biggest concern is not making it look like, okay, here comes a rough bump. That's the biggest thing. So I keep in my mind and just trying to work the match

like I normally would. So how much of the conversation are you a part of beforehand when two wrestlers are working out their match? Are you there for the whole thing? Not for the most of it. I try to be there. I want to hear pretty much the entire match,

what's going on. Sometimes you're busy doing other stuff as well, so you just get the main points. And a lot of guys will just say, you know what, don't worry about it. This is what we're doing for the finish during the match. It's going to be fairly easy. Just follow along.

like I talked about at the start of the show how you wear a bunch of different hats. So like when you talk about, you know, you want to be there while they're going over the match, but you've got other things to do. What other hats when you were, you know, in your prime in WWF, what were the other hats who were wearing? Well, pretty much on the ring crew. The ring was, you know, looking after the ring, setting it up, tearing it down, and also maintenance on the ring too as well, you know, what needed if their boards needed

to be changed or rope needed to be tightened that or adjusted or anything like that. basically looking after the ring. So were you driving the ring truck? I know Mike Kyoto was telling me he drove the ring truck. Yeah, on the ones that when we did the house show slash live events, yes, the TV ring truck was on a separate, was on transport.

I also had Tony Chimelon not long ago, and it's funny, you know, you see him out there as the ring announcer, and then you realize he's doing 15 other things behind the scenes. Oh, yeah. Tony and I ended up when we were pretty much on the Smackdown brand together. We were riding partners.

That was it, because he was on the ring crew. I was on the ring crew. So it only made perfect sense that we were riding partners. So was it just you and Tony in the car? No. Mike would ride with us a lot of times, Kyoto, Larry Heck, the trainer, sometimes Hornswoggle, which was unfortunate.

It was bad enough having Chimel in the car. Then you'd have Hornswogging there as well. You feel like Chimel and Hornswaguer of the butt of every joke I've ever heard. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's just they are the fun guys to make fun of. But don't get me wrong, Chimel, they're both great guys. But, you know, they're the guys that you kind of single out.

It's like, okay, we're going to pick on them. But the one thing, though, as far as the traveling and the car goes, I love being the driver because there was the one rule where the driver, I'm a bad passenger, first of all. But the rule is whoever's driving the car has control of the radio. You can get to listen to what they want on the radio. That's a pretty fair trade-off, I'd say. Oh, yeah.

Especially with the hours that you guys have to. I mean, my goodness. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. I remember one instance where, for some reason, the other guys left Chuck Palumbo at the building. And Chuck said, those guys left me because he was taking his time in the shower and he was, you know, I guess they were partly ribbing him. So he said, do you mind if I ride with you guys in the next town? You can drop me off.

Yeah, sure. Come on in. And I have this habit of listening to old music. I'm a 70s, 80s guy. And I'm not saying I can sing, but I like singing along too. And then when we finally got to the next town, it's like, Chuck, Chuck goes, thanks for the ride, guys. And Tony, does Jimmy know the words to every song from the 70s and 80s? And I kept trying to tell him for some reason when I'm hearing the song, it comes to me.

But that's weird because I'll go from the living room to the kitchen and forget why I went to the kitchen. you know what I mean, but I could remember words to songs for some stupid reason. It goes back to too many rough bumps. There you go. That's what I'll attribute it to. It gives coming back to that. And you were so fortunate in your career to see so many different eras of wrestling and so many different eras of the WWE. Were you able to actually sit back and go, oh, things are starting to shift here?

This, I can see that something's changing now. Yeah, definitely, especially, you know, being a part of the Hogan era. you know, at the start of my career, which was awesome. You know, and then watching it evolve and change to all the different to the attitude era and all the, the Monday Night Wars, which was another, you know, time where it was very interesting because, you know, we'd be doing our TV shows on Monday nights. And I remember one to, okay, sorry. It just, things pop in your head.

I remember. Bring it. Let's hear it. We're in the trainers room. and on the television, because we used to go live at 9, but Nitro would go on it, Monday Nitro would go on at 8. So we're in the trainer's room and they got the TV on and we're watching Nitro. And we hear that very distinctive voice, hey, turn that shit off.

You know, it was the big man. It was VKM. So everybody like scrambling to hide. And as he's walking away, you can hear him laughing. but anyway but that's what it was they used to watch it in you know in the truck probably I assume and you know

they kept an eye on things well I think that they kept an eye on things which is why they ended up winning that war I think I think so too and and they took their time they didn't they didn't panic especially during the time when Eric stooged off the the McFoly

title win Oh, man. Which ended up working in WWB's favor, so it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. At what point do you think referees are going to truly get the appreciation and recognition that they deserve and get a spot in the Hall of Fame? I don't know. I would like to see that happen sooner rather than later, that's for sure. And there's so many candidates.

I already mentioned a couple, like Timmy White, the Hebner's, Tommy Young, you know, wow, Nick Patrick. Charles, Mike, there's just even, even Younghead, Brian, you know, there's so many referees that belong there. And, you know, you have announcers in there. Yeah. I'm not mistaken. Why not referees? Because, again, not being a focal point of the match, but also an integral part of the match, they help tell the story.

So. Well, every name they just listed there, every wrestling fan goes, oh, yeah, I know that person, I know that person. We know them all. And they were part of some of our, you know, most favorite moments in wrestling. It feels like it's a real missing part at the WWB Hall of Fame. Yeah, I think, again, not because I was a former referee, but at the same time, it would be nice to have some acknowledgement.

And we've, you know, we've been fortunate and blessed to have some really great ones. And I have been, too, to learn from. when you look back at the amazing talent that you've worked with in the ring, who are the people that you go, I can't believe, like I can't believe I'm watching this person wrestle. They're just so incredibly good. Oh, man.

When I think back about it, you're talking about so incredibly good. Yeah. Randy Orton is just so darn smooth and so good at what he does. see because as you know chris wrestling is more than just the moves it is the personalities it's the talent getting people invested in what they do randy was able to do it all and make it all look effortless it was incredible eddie was one of those guys too eddie guerrero um god bless him you know and you look back at other talents you know um i know people are going to say well hulk hogan wasn't a great

wrestler, technical wrestler, he was a great entertainer. He was great in the ring and getting people invested in what he did. And that's the name of the game. I like to equate it to this. People are talking about, well, all the business has changed. It's evolved. It's more about the in-ring product. No, I get it.

When you look at the wheel when it was invented, it was made of stone, and then it became wood, then rubber, then vulcanized rubber. We have all these different variations of the wheel, but at the end of the of the day, that shape of the wheel is round. I like that. And that's what professional wrestling is. Yes, it's going to evolve a little bit in style and presentation, especially with TV and the advancement TV.

At the same time, the thing, you talk people into the seats. You talk people into the arena. It's the talent themselves as entertainers. You look back at the era where we had John Sina, the Rock, Stone Cold Steve. Boston, you know, a bunch of talents that that's what made that era special because it was the talent that drew people in, not the fact that this guy could do this and he could do a twisting, burning 450 Hammer Phoenix splash. That's cool where everybody goes, yeah, that was cool, but, you know. I always tell people that wrestling is like a buffet and, you know, maybe you like

hardcore matches, maybe you like high flyers, maybe you like brawlers or whatever, but you, you, you come to the buffet and there's a little bit for everyone. And I think that a great card has all of those matches. Right. And not everything might be your cup of tea. Look, I can appreciate what people call spot fest. A match where there's a lot too much sometimes going on. But I can appreciate it. I can understand why fans like that. Some fans like that. Some fans don't. I like the buffet reference. That's what it is. Some people love to eat meat. And some people are vegetables. And some people, you know what I mean? It's a little bit of everything for everyone instead of, you know.

And that's what WW was very good at during those big eras, was they were able to cater to a lot of different fans as opposed to one core group. I think today now, from a fan standpoint, they have a lot of information that they never used to get back in the day. And I think that's the problem. People are looking at it. Well, I don't like this. sports entertainment version. I want more in-ring product. That's cool. But you can give them a little

bit of everything in the one show as opposed to, we're going to concentrate on just being an in-ring product or whatever the case movie. Now that you're a little removed from it and you're kind of at arm's length now, do you see the changes that are going on in WWE under Triple H's regime? Yeah. It is less, it feels like talent is a little more free to, experiment, let's say. For example, like the, I'll give me, the promos now don't feel as, and I hear using this word scripted, they don't, they don't feel as, hey, we got to stick to this verbiage in the promo.

This is what is handed to you. They, you know, they probably give them bullet points and just say, hey, this is what the story is about. This is what we want you to say. Find it in your character. And that's, you know, what I think we're seeing more of now under the triple H regime. we're seeing regime as we're seeing that talent is being more themselves and they're feeling comfortable you look at a guy like a dominic mysterious man has he you know progressed leaps and

bounds now that he's absorbed this heel persona but they're allowing dom to be dom as opposed to their vision of what this is how i've envisioned dom you know what i mean and that's what i think helps and for sorry and you look at someone like a ronda rousey as a heel it's okay, but it doesn't feel natural for her at this time. It doesn't feel like she's embraced that character. She needs to let loose and just go, if that makes sense, in my opinion anyway. It feels like the perfect timing for something to change in WW with AW, changing things up and kind of pushing the envelope with what they're doing.

And now WWE is able to come in and go, all right, well, we're going to change things up a little bit too. No, no, it's good that they got that little push from AEW. Obviously, they need some, neither show is perfect. Both need, as a Hall of Famer says, screws tightened. For me, the biggest problem with AEW is, and this, you know, recently we saw this being a prime example, is them trying to rush too much into the show and trying to put too much.

Yes, they got a huge roster and not a lot of times. to present everybody. But one of my sayings is it's almost like they try to cram 20 pounds of potatoes in a 10 pound bag a lot of times on their television show. And they, you know, they rushed to the next segment. Like they had that, man, that nice opening

with John Moxley and Lance Archer, the hangman, Adam Page, coming back and them getting into their brawl and that sort of thing. But then we don't go to a commercial break and have let it time to marinate and breathe and the fans absorb it. We go straight into a match. Yeah. You know what I mean?

But then they do the William Regal spot with MJF and they took their time with it. They let it breathe. The fans were invested. They went to commercial. They come back and they're still, they're loading him into the ambulance. That worked great because they gave it time and they let people. buy into it before rushing to the next angle. That's one of the issues I do have with their show is they try to, and I get it.

There's a lot of talent there, but at the same time, you can't rush. Fans need time to get invested before moving on. I do think that what MJF is doing is, it's interesting. It's, I don't know, who does he remind you of? I know a lot of people are talking Roddy Piper, but, man, that would be right now probably the best example without going overboard crazy. Like Roddy used to get, you know, that psychotic look in his face. But man, he knows how to push buttons.

And as much as in this era where people, fans, especially hardcore fans, like to like the heels. Yeah. I'm sure they're enjoying him in his heel persona. But at the same time, he knows how to get the crowd to boo instead of cheer. And he's one of the best out there right now. And at his young age, for him to get it the way he does, that's amazing. I'm really curious what ends up happening with him. He's 26 right now.

Does he wrestle till he's 40? Or does he just become a massive star in wrestling and then transition into something else? Because he's an amazing performer. You could put him on a TV show or a movie right now. And I feel like he'd knock it out of the park. Absolutely. And the biggest thing. Like you said, we've seen it with other, you know, superstars moving on to Hollywood, for example.

Yeah, he definitely has that ability to go there and, you know, make a go of it. And the biggest reason why it works for him is he's believable in that role. Yeah. You believe that this is the guy. Even though, you know, we're saying, oh, he's cutting a wrestling promo, you believe, you still go, but yeah, but he seems like an SOB. You know, you've got to buy into it. Yeah. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast.

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Follow and listen on your favorite platform. What's the one match that really sticks in your head? Like for Mike Keota, you talk all about Rock Hogan, which I actually have a poster of my wall over here. I was there. You know, sky don't WrestleMania 18. What's the one match for you? The one match, again, going to WrestleMania 24,

Edge versus Undertaker in the main event. And one of the biggest reasons why is not just because a good friend, Edge, and our, you know, our locker room leader, the undertaker, who, by the way, was our locker room leader, not because he put himself in that position. He was, it was the locker room that kind of elevated him into that position. He was kind of voted in, for lack of a better term, as our leader. But, you know, if you, if you read my book in the forward, Edge explains that they requested me for that match, especially Edge. He wanted me to be the referee for that match.

And that meant so much to me. It was so humbling. It was so, man. But then it also put extra pressure because now they requested me for this. I better not mess it up. You know what I mean? So all those thoughts are going through your head. But at the same time, I remember the day before WrestleMania sitting at the hotel,

we're in the banquet room. You know, it was just reserved for us. and sitting at the table with the edge taker Michael Hayes and me and they're talking over the match and then all of a sudden they say Jimmy what do you think and I'm like ooh they're asking my opinion too this is cool and then you know obviously in that match I took a bump and said want to bump the referee in this and blah blah blah and then taker just looks at me and he says Jimmy you okay with taking a big boot absolutely what are you kidding me they're taking a big boot from the take from the dead man at

WrestleMania? Yeah. Yeah, bring it on. You were also part of the most infamous moment in WWE here history. Oh. What are your memories of that night? Do you actually remember

what happened at Over the Edge? Over the Edge? Oh, my goodness. Yeah, unfortunately, I do remember some stuff, but the other stuff is foggy, but I remember going to the ring, there was a hardcore match before the incident took place. So I went out to the ring to help them clear the ring of debris that was in the ring

and as on the screen was playing a pre-recorded interview that Kevin Kelly did with, I believe it's Kevin Kelly, it did with the Blue Blazer, Roman Heart. And I was in the ring kind of facing the the jumbotron holding that top rope and kicking stuff out of the ring moving towards that corner that corner and I heard some screaming

but then you know you're in front of a live crowd so I don't know what's going on and I felt something brush against the side here on my shoulder it wasn't enough to knock me down or anything but it was

just very lightly like, boom. But at the same time, the top rope I was holding sprung out of my hand and popped my fingers back, like kind of jamming my fingers. And I looked around to see if the top rope

had broke if that was what I felt. And when I turned, I looked in the corner and there was Owen, you know, laying there. And again, I knew the entrance was supposed to be him descending. But I, you know, you're not

putting it together and you're going what the heck the heck and as I went over I called out a couple of times and it was just his eyes wide open

you can see through the mask not moving and I just flipped out and started calling for help and just stood back and took it all in while they put him on the stretcher

to escort him out and I don't know for some dumb reason I just got his cape his blue blazer cape I just scooped up all that stuff and walked back with it. You know, gave it to somebody and watched them load him into an ambulance. And at the time, I was a smoker.

So somebody handed me a cigarette. I was sitting outside the arena on the steps as the ambulance drove by like shaking with a cigarette and stuff like that. And John Domingo, who worked in the production, said, they want you to go to the hospital as well and get checked out. Wow. I said, really? I said, yeah, they want you to go. So I said, okay, I'm going to go then. So I went and got checked out at the hospital and they came in there.

And they said, are you with the gentleman, the wrestler that they had brought in? I said, yes, I am. And I said, well, we're sorry to him for me that he has passed. And I just, that was it for me. It was, you know, I called my wife, who was my fiancee at the time? I called her from there and just told her. what was happening and then from that moment on after talking to my wife i don't remember uh going back to the arena getting my stuff and going to st louis i just remember waking up in st louis the next

morning uh apparently john domico had driven us to st louis whatever and it was the next day at at St. Louis that I found out, you know, when I walked into the building, the first thing was, you know, running into people going, are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay? And, you know, running into Taker and Taker said, Jimmy, are you okay? I said, I'll be okay. He says, if you need anything, you come to me. And J.R. said the same thing as well. But then I ran into Loller, Jerry Lawler. And he said, do you remember anything from last night? I just remember going to the hospital stuff like that. He says, I don't know if I should tell you this, but you don't know how close you

became becoming part of that tragedy. I said, pardon me? He said, you know, he saw the last 20 feet or so of the fall. He said, the first thing that came to his mind was, oh, my God, he's going to fall on Jimmy. And what I felt brushed by me was on. And when he told me that, it was just, oh. Wow. Yeah. And I, and, you know, Owen, I think now becomes the biggest what if in all of wrestling history. Like he was right there on the come up. And I feel, feel like he could have been just as successful as Brett was. Yeah. And again, no disrespect to Brett, but Owen had more personality from an entertainment standpoint than Brett did. So the potential to be even bigger was there in my mind. opinion. Do you have a favorite Owen memory? Oh my goodness. Where do I begin? You know,

as you know, one of the most legendary rivers in the history of the business, but at the same time, they weren't mean. They weren't hurtful. They didn't, you know, like he got me one time at a hotel where I get this call in my hotel room and from someone claiming to be from the front desk and said, my credit card was declined. You have to come down right now. I go, it's like 3.30 in the morning. He says, oh, can we deal with this in the morning? No, we have to take care of this right away. And so I get dressed and I head down to the front desk and I get the front desk and they're telling me, no, we know nothing about this. You know, and I'm like, what? I said, I just got a call. He said, no, no, it wasn't us. And next day I found out it was Owen. And he, he, one of, one of my

favorite ones, though, was we were in Montreal, and J.B.L. was wrestling Carl Leduc, who was Joe Liduke's nephew. And he had only been wrestling for like three weeks. And let's put it this way. He wasn't very

he wasn't ready for it. He was a little green, perhaps. So the match didn't go too well. But he was scheduled to wrestle the next night in Ottawa, and they changed it up instead of JBL, they put him in with Owen. They thought Owen could look after him and take care of him. So Chief says

to Owen, you know, whatever you do, don't shoot him in, don't let him run the ropes because he would run to the ropes. He would stop, kind of turn, lean, and start running the other way instead of hitting the ropes. You know, so Chief says, just don't run into the ropes. So they get together. I, you know, I'm there

and he says, so what are we doing tonight? So they're talking over a few things. He says, they grab me in a headlock and and I'll shoot you off and we'll do a crisscross. So you can only imagine how this went, you know, like Owen doing the over-exaggerated steps like this. Well, he's going by and things. Oh, my goodness.

And I don't know how he did it, but one time, he untied my shoe, my sneaker in the ring. During a match. I don't know how he did it. Oh, I wish I had brought him with me, too. I have downstairs somewhere. We were in Germany. And it was a tag match.

It was Owen and Jeff versus Edge and Christian. And they went into the comeback. The baby faces are making their comeback. And they got Owen and Jeff in the corners on opposite sides. And they get up on the second rope to do the 10 punches. You know, they look up at the crowd like this. And they're going, hey, shoot. You know, crowds flying into it.

While they're doing that, both Owen and Jeff reach into the pocket. They put these red clown noses on. So as they turn around, they go, eh. And they look down. and they go, oh, my goodness. And they started punching, and of course they pop off. I picked up the red clown noses, put them in my pocket. I still haven't to this day.

I kept them. So it's a little souvenir that I got to keep. But amazing. Are any part of you that wants to put the stripes back on, call a few more matches? It would be nice to have one more just thank you for everything match. But, you know, I've had a blessed career. Nothing can top with, I think, you know, stuff I've done. I think that when Edge finally retires, it should be Tony Chimel doing the,

you know, classic superstar and Drew, and then you calling the match. That, oh my goodness, that would be awesome. I mean, it seems to make sense. Yeah, yeah, if, yeah, Edge would be an awesome one. If Tony Chimel doesn't announce Edge's final match, I think that somebody's dropped the ball here. Exactly. Exactly. But Tony used to have fun with it too. Not only super sorry, he said, Gian Cinas, yeah.

So what is it that keeps you busy these days? Well, obviously my ref and rants, my daily reference from Monday to Friday, it's just a minute long where I make a little critique, but again, this is a great time to get a wrestling fan because wrestling is fun again, I think. I agree. Not just, it's

WWAEW, Impact Wrestling doesn't get enough credit. I think they do a wonderful job. There's a lot. There's a lot of good wrestling out there for fans to watch. So it's meant to just help tighten screws or just give an opinion. Something I'd like to see improved upon, for lack of a better term. But I do that. I do some stuff, some podcasting on Wrestling Inc. website where I do post-Rawr

and post-Dynamite reviews with Justin Mabar. And it's either Jack Farmer or ESA, the NYC Demon Diva. and we you know and I just again analyze right I always say that now is the best time to be a wrestling fan because you don't have to turn on the TV and wait for nine o'clock for raw or you should be eight o'clock for nitro like if I want to go watch any johnsina match I can either turn on the network or turn on YouTube and I'm watching it absolutely and again simple PVRs and stuff like that it's it's made obviously when you go live after the show you're have to watch the show to do it. But as a fan, you can just sit back and go, you know what, tonight the wife and I are going out on a nice little dinner or whatever the case may be. I can watch it later. Yeah, if you're covering wrestling and you have to watch it for a living or get to watch it for a living,

probably is a point where you're like, yeah, do I have to watch every single Monday? Like, could I take a Monday off and just catch up on Twitter or something? No, eventually you can. You know, obviously you can take a holiday and stuff like that. But if you're home and you like it, you watch it anyways, why not? Yeah. The only difference is, you know, sometimes I like to sit back and just watch and say, hey, that was fun. That wasn't.

That didn't hook me. Oh, boy, they got me with that one. Now I have to take notes and say, you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, Jimmy, this has been such a tree. Thank you so much for jumping on with us. I end every conversation talking about gratitude because it's such an important part of my life. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now?

Oh, my goodness. But I'm grateful right now. I'm grateful for outkicking my coverage when I got married, a beautiful, wonderful wife who understood the business when I was away a lot and now has to put up with me on a daily basis, which is not an easy test. So I'm thankful for her all the time. I'm thankful for the career I had in wrestling because, man, I was blessed. I was truly blessed to be a part of that. And like you said, through so many different positive eras, you know, it is amazing. And for making lifelong friends while I was there and who I still keep in contact with to this day.

And, you know, I'm thankful for all of that. And for, of course, currently what's going on. still being a part of this business in some form or fashion. Jimmy, thank you so much. Oh, my pleasure, man. Thank you for having me, Chris. All right, my friends. Big thank you to you for joining us on this one.

Of course, a big thank you as well to Jimmy for being with us and sharing all of these amazing stories. Take a screenshot. Tag us. Let us know you were listening and share it on social media so we can share it out as well. Jimmy is at Jimmy Cordares. It's just his name. I'm at Chris Vanley, just my name,

and I shared this quote on Twitter earlier this week and you guys really seem to resonate with it. So I'm going to share it here as well. You can, you should, and if you're brave enough to start, you will. It's a quote from Stephen King. Be great, be grateful, my friends. We will see you tomorrow for the last episode of 2022,

a really special one with my new wife. Rachel Van Vleet. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air.

It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take it man, jump, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.