Insight with Chris Van Vliet - John Morrison Is Bald Now! Crazy Moments, Being Called Underrated, Royal Rumble Saves, Iconic Matches

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

John Morrison (@TheRealMorrison) is a professional wrestler currently signed to AEW. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss losing a hair vs. hair match at CMLL and now being bald, his wife Taya's reaction to the new look, replacing Chris Benoit at Vengeance and winning the ECW World Championship in 2007, his dive from the top of the Elimination Chamber, his parkour Royal Rumble save, having more than 34 names throughout his pro wrestling career, and more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Getting used to seeing yourself with no hair? No. You know, it's, it's, imagine like your whole life. You know, every time you see your reflection, there's a guy there with hair, right? Sure. I never shaved my head.

But more than that, for the last 24 years, 25 years, I've had long hair. When I got my W-to-B-E contract in 2003, that was the day I stopped getting haircuts, basically. I just grew it out from, then till now. So you lost this hair versus hair match. What are you looking to be like that for?

Okay. This is what I see when I look in the mirror. You look great. You have to say that because I'm sitting right. You look great. The consensus online is you look great. Thank you very much. And to everyone online, also thank you very much.

It, you know, it's everyone's worry if they get their head shaved that like, like, what if I have kind of a weird shaped head, you know? Yeah. And everyone's head is a little bit weird, but like, it's not bad. You're good. It's all right. I want to read you some comments here I saw on Twitter. John Hedigan makes me sick.

The guy loses a hair match and somehow looks even better than he did. Is that from Taya? I was baffled. He should have celebrated like he was the winner. I mean, I got to admit the match did feel fantastic. You know, like that hair-hair match, I feel like, was one of the best matches I've had in years. And it was the first time in a while that I felt like me again. You were late?

Didn't know, like kind of just being off or feeling unfulfilled, basically. You feel like you were like you again? Is that what it is? So I guess to that point, I mean, not just me, a lot of people in wrestling, but for me right now in AEW, I feel. underutilized. And can't blame anyone. It's just how wrestling promotions work. You know, there's only enough, like, TV time for a certain amount of people.

And those people at AEW, we've coined the term the island. Those people are on the island, so to speak. And I don't feel like I'm on the island with Tony or AEW right now. So because of that, I feel like I'm doing, like, you know, 10, 20% of what I'm capable of storytelling-wise, wrestling-wise. in the ring. And with CMLL, I'm on their island. And so I got to, like, do everything that I could.

And it was cool. It made me realize, like, hey, yeah, I do love wrestling. Had you been thinking for a while about shaving your head? A little bit, honestly, like, my acting coach has been on me for years about shaving my head. And I had a bunch of missed calls when I got back. from Mexico. It's all Hank, all him going like, hey man, you got to take some photos.

You could go out for cop rolls, soldier rolls, all kinds of stuff. World Joyce now, come on. So I'm, thanks, Hank. He doesn't have social, so one of those comments wasn't his, but he's excited. Where did the idea come from?

And how long had you been thinking about this? You know, like, I've been thinking about it for a long time. I had wanted to wrestle a Phoenix, try to take his mask when we met up at AEW for a while. But the timing just didn't quite work out. And then I started thinking, you know, if I'm going to put my hair on the line,

it might ought to be for CML since the partnership with AEW. Because just culturally, it feels like that's where hair, hair, mask hair, mask career, all that stuff really started was Lucillebra in Mexico. and I feel like the significance it has culturally down there is greater than it has in other places. So just started thinking, it made me think, if I'm going to do this, I should try to do it in Mexico. No, CML, no, CML, Mexico, Mexico, Mexico, the oldest, like, most nostalgic Mexican Lucha Libre promotion, CML, the oldest Lucre-L-L building arena, like in the world still operating. Arena, Mexico, and Mexico City.

Yeah. So what's interesting is you get your head shaved. Everybody sees it first. You don't. So when did you finally, like, look in the mirror and see what it looked like? You know, so as soon as I come back from the match, honestly, as soon as I come back from the match, Mexico City is like a mile and a half above sea level. My hands are on my knees.

I'm looking down for like 30 seconds before I find a mirror in lieu. Whoa. And a couple things. things. A few days prior, actually three days prior to this match, I came back to L.A. and I had to shoot a bunch of projects because I was shaving my head. And continuity-wise, I had to finish up a bunch of stuff that had just kind of been like on the to-do list. Sure. So I was doing like this like two days before the match. I was doing a bat in the sun like superpower beat down video playing Casey Jones and like fighting foot soldiers.

And there's this one part where I kept joking this guy with a payphone cord. You know, you got a call from Payne 101. But the payphone was a prop and it kept like falling and like gashing me in the head. Like there was one time I like got gashed there and I started bleeding a little bit, which doesn't really matter because if you have hair, you can't see it. Sure. But I was thinking about that before the hair match. I was like, man, I wonder if I have had.

like those marks from like the payphone fight scene on my head. And then I wonder if like all those times like Saboo hit me in the head with chairs or like a Kendo stick to the head from Seamus or something. Like I just never noticed they have like a gnarly scar. And it like when you look in the mirror, I was like, yep, I guess I was right about the payphone marks because I am kind of cut up. He's either that or the the barber character in CMLL, she gave me pretty quickly. without a guard on the razor.

What does Tyne think of this? She was one of the first people, I mean, this is in like our family text group to say, like, I think John looks amazing, which, I mean, probably the most important perspective to me of anyone in the world. Sure.

She's cool with it. All right. I'm fine with it then. Is this your look moving forward? You know, I'm liking it. I like all the feedback. It's a weird question. I'm a grown man deciding if this is my look moving forward.

But think about it. When Kurt Angle lost his hair versus hair mask to edge, he was bald. It still is to this day. Like that was a defining moment. You know, I... When Vince McMahon shaved his head, it was temporary. We saw it like once, and then he grew his hair back. What did you think of Vince's head?

It was a strange look for him. Like his head was like too, like, squatty or something? I don't know. I think we just, we just weren't, didn't have time. time to get used to it because he was wearing that fedora for a while. Oh, yeah. Got ripped off a few times. And then the next time we saw him, he had like shortish hair for the next however many years.

Yeah. Bishoff kind of the same thing. Bishawth never really shaved his head, right? Yeah. Like he had his hair shaved, but he had like that gray hair underneath. That was the reveal. Yeah, yeah, that's right. It was like an excuse for him to stop dying his hair.

Exactly. And he looked better. So as I digress, like, is this my look forever? Probably not. I'm not planning on growing my hair back out like super long. Speaking of comments on social media, I, man, it was a few months ago. I was working on a step-up cork to like landing on a lower level, which is like a gainer full twist off one foot. And I haven't hit that in years. And I like nailed one at Jam like on the mats. and posted it.

And for some reason, like, that was the first time I saw the top of my head and thought, like, huh, I'm losing my hair. And the comments on that video were, like, half like, oh, my God, oh, shit, that was awesome. And then half like, ooh. Like Richard Pryor memes. John should cover his head. That move was really cool, but it went better with a hat. stuff like that.

You could go back to your tough enough audition days. Your hair was like the length of mine. No, no, I think your hair is like a little bit longer than my tough enough audition. Could go back to that hair. I've told you before I liked your hair. I mean,

you're too kind. It's possible that next time I'm on the pod, you could have matching haircuts. We could have a hair versus hair match. I'd have to win. Loser grows hair. Loser grows it out long. You know, I always thought it would be funny

to have a mask-mask match. But like, say you and me, mask versus mask, except the loser now has to wear a mask. It's just not fair that you look great with a shaved head. You are 46 years old, 47 later this year. You're still shredded. It's just not fair. I mean, continue.

I don't even know what to say to that. It's true. It's just not fair. I mean, life's not fair, I guess. And sometimes I complain about it, but right now, no, I'll take it. I do work very hard, though. I spend a lot of time training still, like, hitting, stunt gyms, gymnastics gyms, parkour, lifting, doing fight choreo, doing all my weird flomo stuff, I call it, which is kind of like a yoga slash, like functional movement, animal flow type thing. Well, it's working. It's working. Who was the first person in your WWE career to say, hey, you kind of look like Jim Morris?

You know, I can't remember, but it wasn't a thing that had happened super frequently. It was more so that, and we've talked about this, I think. When I won the ECW championship, I was Johnny Nitro. Yeah. And prior to that, Vince had mentioned a few times that, like, Johnny Nitro is not like a champion's name. not like a good name, you got to change it. Why do you think that, Vince? Is it because it reminds you of WCW Monday Nitro? Yes. The day after I won the championship, actually the week after,

because the day after everyone in the roster got some very bad news, but we can talk about that if you want later. The week after Vince walked up to me in catering, which is rare, said, you got to change your name. You got to have a new name.

Put like a paper down on the table and a pen. And just make a list. Make a list of names. And so I was like really on the spot. And I just started writing down like, like, what could be an M&M name that fits? And then I was like maybe like a Johnny Brando, John Morrissey, John Morrison. Couldn't think of very many ends. And so I made a list of like,

kind of like celebrity, like Brando Morrison, Johnny Brando, like stuff like that. And the first one that I'd written down was John Morrison. And like a couple hours later, I handed this list to Vince. And he just went like this and read the top.

He was like, John Morrison. I like it. That's it. So then after that, like, I kind of went from like this Johnny Nitro wet hair look to a,

getting the makeup department to flat iron my hair. I used to say I wanted it to look like Farah Fawcett's hair. That's an old reference. But once I started doing that and wearing aviators, I got a ton of people saying you look just like Jim Morrison. Even to the point where I started getting fans asking me if I was Jim Morrison's brother sometimes. And I would sometimes make a smart-ass comment.

Like, I mean, he... He died in 79. If I'm his brother, like, am I a vampire then? Like, I would be like, now I'd be like, what, 80 years old? I didn't know how to do the math. The math doesn't math on that. How long after you changed your look and changed your name to John Morrison, did you get that cool slow motion entrance?

You know, I haven't thought of the exact timing on that, but I want to say it was pretty quickly, like within a couple of months. Because it worked so well with the new character. And it was a combo of becoming the new ECW world champion. You're kind of like the brand ambassador then for like one of their shows. ECW was on Tuesdays then. So I was the Tuesday night basically like brand ambassador for a while. And when you're in that spot,

they try to think of ways to accentuate your character to like signify to the crowd that like, hey, like watch this guy. This is important. So for the slow-mo, I was talking to Stephanie about Jim Morrison was a film major, by the way, so was I. We were talking about cinematic treatments that we could possibly adapt to my entrance. And we were talking about slow motion, I think I had mentioned some, this would have been kind of impossible and her idea was way better. I wanted to shoot basically some part of my entrance with like a phantom and get up to like 10,000 frames per second. And like, you know, you get excited sometimes thinking of stuff.

And she was like, awesome, slow motion. I have a great idea. And then she like came back with this like basically the idea of how they could go from live switch to a camera that's filming in slow motion basically. and then in slow motion, you know, the shot would carry over so that there's going to be kind of a jump in time when you go back to real speed. And so she kind of laid that out. I got it.

We did it. It was her idea, which was fantastic, her idea, because that meant it happened very quickly. And it just really like right time, right place. You know what I mean? Yeah. Combination of time and place. You mentioned winning the ECW championship.

So that was at Vengeance, no way out. or sorry, Vengeance Night of Champions, 2007. Correct. It was supposed to be Chris Benoit versus CM Punk for the vacant ECW championship. At what point do you realize throughout the day, Chris Benoit's not showing up and, oh, I'm his replacement. Man, so we're at Vengeance, 2007. Not everyone's there. You know, it's a pay-per-view, but I happen to be there.

The ECW roster didn't have a lot of representation. at that particular event. So, you know, say call time, I think was like, maybe two. Were you booked to do anything? No, it was like a standby. I was booked to be there. Maybe you have a dark match.

I don't know. So say call time is like one. Everything's fine. Like, I'm just in catering. Two, two, thirty, three, around three. I hear like Chris Benoit hasn't showed up. And if he doesn't show up, I might need to fill in or something.

Okay, sure. He'll be there, though. It's Chris. Four, 4.30, like 5 p.m. Like, me and Mordecai, Kevin Thorne, get called into talent relations to the two of us. And we're told like, hey, can't get hold of Chris Benoit. He's not here. And if he's not here in another hour or two, it's going to be one of you two guys versus CM Punk. and we don't want to let the crowd down by having the replacement lose so whoever it is between you two is going to win. And so kind of like both looked at each other like,

I hope it's me. Both of us did. How did they determine who was going to be that? I bet they probably just picked the better talent. You know, I don't know who made that decision in that call. I hadn't. Because this is the difference between the veteran and someone who's at that point, what,

four or five years in. True. But, like, I'd had a lot more TV time consistently than he had up to that point. You know, whoever made the decision, thank you. I agree. Good call. So we have that talk, right? And then I spend the next, like, two hours, like, pace.

hoping that Chris Benoit does not show up like walked out to like the parking garage a couple times just to like see if I saw a car coming and then like the pay-per-view started put my tights on the whole time like oh my God like Chris Benoit was going to show up and this is going to get squashed and it'll just be back to business as normal

he doesn't show up though and we have the match at Russell CM Punk we can get into punk matches later but it was a great match Punk and I, like, had several after that leading to eventually us having great chemistry. Eventually, the two of us having great chemistry. The first couple were a little clunky, but still, still fun. And so I win the ECW championship. And it was like one of those like, man, like this morning, I thought I was just coming to this pay-per-view to eat catering and like hang out. And didn't really have anything going on TV storyline-wise to, Tonight now, ECW world champion. The writers are all asking me questions. They're going to start writing the show around me.

And holy crap, this is the best night ever. Then the next day, we get the news about Benoit and what happened. And I felt like crap. I felt so guilty just for being happy with, something that came to be because of the tragedy that, like, we've all heard about and talked about at nauseam. And it's, like, still tough for me to be happy about how everything came about. I'm happy that I got that match.

And my career took, like, a huge turn upwards because of everything. It's just a very confusing. confusing thing to benefit from a tragedy, even if you really had nothing to do with it. Because up to that point, as far as I knew, I thought Chris and his family were just very nice people. And Chris, I thought, was nice to a point. Like, he always liked me, I think, and respected me because he could tell that I liked wrestling. and that's what I was there for. But he was one of the guys that was kind of going to weed you out

if he didn't like you or if anyone thought you had an attitude problem. You're going to have to deal with him. And I, you know, like I kind of felt like it was cool that, like, he saw me in regard to the fact that, like, I did like wrestling then. I like wrestling now. More than that, I loved it, and I still love it. And I've mentioned confusing, like talking in circles about it. I just can't quite articulate.

Does it feel like your world title victory is a little tainted? Because now you're the footnote of this tragedy. I would never, I've never thought about it in those terms. Like, the only thing that I think about is I feel guilty about being so happy and excited. because I didn't know what it happened. Yeah, you didn't know. Yeah, but still, you know. And then, like, I don't care if it's a footnote or not.

Like, what happened after it is, like, more meaningful to me anyway. You know, it's hard to believe that it's already been over a month since John Cena's final match. And I'm grateful to say that I was able to be there in person in D.C. With some amazing tickets from Seatkeek. And I want to give a huge shout out to Seatkeek for sponsoring this episode. With over 35 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on Seatgeek,

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There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Where do you feel like that, the WW ECW World Championship falls in the lineage of like

WWE Championship world title? Because it is a world title. So, you know, technically, there were three world titles when I won ECW, the ECW World Championship. There was Smackdown, Raw, one was like the World Championship,

one was the heavyweight championship. Yeah. And the ECW World Championship. everyone, those three champions all got immediate first class travel. It was like the three titles. I think a week or two after I won it, they decided that like, we're going to have two main titles. Like Ron Smackdown, those are the two main ones.

ECWs, like a title, but it's ECW heavyweight championship. It's not quite on the level of the other two. But technically for a week or two, I was well. But you felt the shift happen? Yeah. Like, I mean, if you think about it, if you want to compare it to like a television show, right? Yeah. It's like if you're like, you know, one of the guest stars or recurring lead or a supporting lead, you're in all the episodes.

And the stories kind of are like mostly about like the top like people on the call list, right? but like say like two of the top actors leave and then suddenly like you're number one in the call it sheet um it's a nerdy acting analogy but it means that like the show is kind of written mostly about you you're the a story so with the eccw world championship it became the a story for the hour long show ECW on wwe on tuesday nights where do you feel like that could have taken you because you're world champion there. One of the words that's always attached to you is underrated. Do you feel like there was a chance later on to become a world champion? Yeah. Like I, you know, I mean, you can say what you want about this, but to this day,

I still feel like I could be world champion of WWE one day, maybe, of AEW, maybe. I feel like I just need another opportunity. And the way wrestling works in my mind is things come in waves. Might have mentioned that to you before, but you ride a wave for a while, and then it passes and you're kind of waiting for the next wave. Sometimes you're waiting longer than other times. But when waves come and you catch them, they take you places. And the ECW, maybe the championship win for me was like the first huge wave that I caught.

and it led me to some really amazing places and it could have ended up leading me to become like a world champion on Rawr Smackdown or it could have like just completely backfired and like something else weird happened and then led to nothing. So I'm kind of happy with how things turned out and don't what if, Chris. Anyone watching this? Don't what if. How do you feel about being labeled? is underrated.

I mean, probably better than being labeled is overrated, right? That's true. It is strange how, I mean,

I guess this isn't a lot of things, right? It's always said as a compliment, though. Oh, yeah. No, I know. And to everyone who's made that comment,

yeah, I agree with you. I should have been world champion. Thank you. But, like, wrestling specifically, because it's what I know most and the most experience

with, of just anything I've done in my life, to be a fantastic professional wrestler, it needs to become a part of your identity. And I feel like that's true for a lot of jobs and positions that require time. You know, if you want to win a gold medal in a pole vault, you're going to have to spend so much time training that part of your identity is going to become like, I'm an Olympic pole vault. I'm a brother, I'm a son, I'm a boyfriend or a husband or whatever. But the amount of time you spend training for that event would mean that it would be a big part of who you are.

So in the same way, like, okay, like I'm a professional wrestler. And if I want to be the best version of myself as a professional wrestler, I'm going to have to define myself in that way when referring to my own identity. or thinking about it, right? So that means like, okay, if I am John Morrison, ECW champion, that means when I wake up, I better start acting like it.

When I wake up, I better have some eggs and not cinnamon rolls and donuts. I'd better do my cardio. I'd better watch tape and familiarize myself with people on the roster. I'd better be thinking about what I would do with every single person on the WWE roster and I'd better be thinking about how I can evolve

or how I can stay sharp. And that takes a lot of time. And I did that. I still do it. I still think about matches that I could have with people on the AEW roster and have like just notebooks full of ideas written down. And I haven't been able to do a lot of them

because the matches haven't happened. And so in my mind, thinking about all that stuff in my office that I have written down when I hear people say I'm underrated. Thank you. Who's on the list of people you haven't worked with yet in AEW that you can't wait to get in there with?

I mean, a ton of people. And so some of these people maybe have worked with in like a trios or a scramble or a Battle Royal. But I mean, Mike Bailey, Speedball, Kevin Knight, Kenny Omega, John Moxley. Have you had a match with Will Osprey? I have. I have two matches with Will.

back in 2014 for PCW in Manchester, no, in Preston, next to Manchester, England. I mean, I love to wrestle him again. Was that the last time he wrestled him? Yes. 12 years ago? Yes. Well, both of you guys are so much better now.

I mean, he is really so much better. He was just a kid back then, and he was fantastic. But anyway, like tons of people like that. You had a side note there before I cut you off. I know. I can't remember the side note. It was John Moxley and then you had a side note. Oh, side note.

I have wrestled Moxley before. I was his first match in the WWE. You were Dean Ambrose's first match? No. I was John Moxley's first match in 2006. It was local John Moxley and his partner tagging against Eminem. And I didn't even really remember it until I saw someone posted on Instagram like a year ago. And I watched it back.

It was like a brand new John Moxley, like blonde ponytail. And like, there he is. Wow. Getting stiffed by Johnny Nitro. And I saw him at AEW a week or two after that. And I like asked him about it. Like John, like, remember that match we had on like this velocity? And as Mox would say, he's like, yeah.

You know, that was the most important thing. that it happened to my life up to that point. Just matter of fact, that's it. I was like, cool. What does your life look like if you don't win tough enough three? Man, you know, if I don't win tough enough three, I don't know. I had gotten really into the idea of becoming a professional wrestler. I had already started.

Did you get that idea after you? you auditioned the year before. Yeah. Because for people that don't remember, you audition for Tough Enough Season 2. Right. And they're like, do the Spinneruni.

And you didn't know what the Spinner Rooney was. And they're like, clearly you're not a wrestling fan. And then like something like kind of vaguely clicked. And so I just did some windmills. And they're like, oh, it's a spinnerooey kind of. Technically, like, windmills are much harder than a spin Rooney.

But after that, like, I, it was actually great that I didn't get on season two. Like, did you take that as fuel of like... Oh, my God. Between Cineering season. and two and three, I spent like six to eight hours in the gym every day. And it wasn't like just lifting weights. I would go to the gym.

I would lift. I would do cardio. And then I would do either Wushu, BJJ, gymnastics, or breakdancing. Because those are all the clubs that UC Davis had. And so it'd be like, I'd show up and like breakdance for an hour or two, then lift weights for an hour or two, then like, do gymnastics stuff for another hour or two. the next day, it'd be like Wushu Day. I do Wushu with the Wushu team.

I made Kung Fu movies back then too. I was a film major. So just all my ideas of entertainment and movement really got sharp in the year between Tough Enough 2 and 3. So that when I got accepted on to Tough Enough 3, I, now that in retrospect, I would have been very hard to beat. Like, that version of me was like such a perfect. the candidate to become a professional wrestler.

From the outside looking in, it seemed like it was a middle finger of like, like you auditioning for season three was a middle finger of like, look at all the things I can do. Like you guys kind of like lit a fire under me before. Yeah. Like now I'm the perfect contestant for the show.

Was tough enough to. Chavo always says, like he thought that I should have been on tough enough too. Thank you, Chavo. Kevin Dunn said, I don't think he wants to be a professional wrestler. I think he just wants to flip and run and do tricks. And, um, nah.

And then like a year later, um, I worked on my flips and kicks and tricks and running and wrestling too. I started training at a wrestling school in Sacramento called SPW in the interim. But I'm actually really glad Kevin Dunn said that even because like the fire that had lit at that time in my life when I was like young. and I had the time because I was going to college to focus on, like, physicality and storytelling through cinema and movement really kind of dialed me in for the show. By the way, what do you think pro wrestlers do mostly?

Like flip and, like, run and, like, trick, and it's kind of what we do. During a match. Right. So, like, yeah, like, if that's all I wanted to do, then good. Oh, you've made a pretty great career out of it. Yeah. So if you don't get called back for season three,

If you don't end up winning season three, do you still think that you're passionate about wrestling enough to find a path to get you to WWE at some point? I remember when I said, Don't, what if Chris? Come on. That's true, it's true. I have thought about that a lot. And I really honestly don't know

because they haven't truly lived it. In my mind, I feel like I would have pursued wrestling for sure because I was really digging it. I was like getting really over as a referee at the Indy Fed in Sacramento. Over as a ref. Well, you start as a ref. No, but like I spent so much time thinking about it

and training for it that I would have definitely pursued it. At the same time, I would have continued to pursue filmmaking, action, acting, and action design. and I don't know what my life would have looked like. I just, I know that I would have been involved in some sort of like physical storytelling. And I like to think that it would still have been professional wrestling because that was the thing that I liked the most. I just, I don't know.

The way that I grew up, I didn't have any friends or family or anyone of my family knew that was a professional wrestler. And, you know, all my friends just, you know, kind of do what most people did. Like, you graduate from high school, you go to college, you graduate from college, and you get a job, you know, responsible choices for your future. Yeah. So I would have been constantly worried about, like, is this choice now that, like, spending a lot of time and money pursuing professional wrestling,

going to be worth it? Or should I, like, be putting my, like, degree to use and, like, be doing something? something different. It's a very good question. And in my head, like I said, I like to think I would have still been a professional wrestler. I know I would have pursued it and pursued movement and storytelling, like I said, but I just can't know unless it's happened, right? I think it's fair to say that you were the most successful, tough enough winner of all time. I agree. Like, Ms. I think is the most successful tough enough contestant. Oh, he came in second, though. That's right. He didn't win, but what a career. You know what the irony is? Like, I, I've thought about it. I've thought about

this too. If I didn't win tough enough, I feel like my career is totally different if I had one. If Ms. did win tough enough, same. I don't know if he makes it as the tough enough winner, especially because his year, I think, was the Daniel Puter year. Was it a $250,000 tough enough? Yes. So I remember at OVW when I got there with my like tough enough contracts, which is $50,000 a year, basically a grand a week showing up to OVW and there being people like Rob Conway and the Bashams and Nick Dinsmore

who had been there for years and they were 500 a week or 250 a week and like Conway had like been there for years and most of it he worked part-time as a like a furniture mover and installer in addition to the training

and so there's people that are making that much money there's people there with years of experience that are just there on their own dime. And I walked in with this contract and TV and got beat up. And like I deserved it. That's like kind of what I feel like should happen to everyone who wants to get into pro wrestling.

There's a part of it where you pay your dues. But Puter had just won $250,000. And he like drove up the first day to OVW in like a brand new Mercedes and like designer sunglasses and they kind of locked his car and like just walked in with a little bit of swagger. And I thought to myself like, oh no, he doesn't get it. He doesn't get it at all. And it didn't work out for him for a lot of reasons. But Ms. has like such like this natural thing about him to rub people the wrong way or be annoying or unlikable that if he had won tough enough, like, I mean, he, even coming in second, like, went to Deep South, like, fought and worked his way up and got bullied and bullied and bullied and kicked out of the locker room.

We've all heard that story. What if he'd won? Like, how much worse would it have been for him? And I don't think that the Miz would ever have quit wrestling. I truly believe that, like, he, like, from the time he was a kid, there was something in his heart. soul that told him like, I'm going to be a professional wrestler. So even when he was on the real world, we saw what he kept saying on all his shows back then, was he wanted to be in the WWE.

But the difference is just him having to overcome, like, not winning and work his way up, I think was more palatable to the rest of the locker room than if he had won and been given, like, a good position. Like, he already rubbed people the wrong way. I might have rubbed people too far the wrong way. look at, like, Ms. is getting his flowers now. Well, that's what I'm saying. I love it.

Like, the stuff I said, but he would never have quit either way. Yeah. And, like, he fought for so long with, like, nothing promised to get where he is now. And, like, he fought through a lot. But something shifted the last, let's call it, five-ish years where he gets respect from everybody now. It was because I came back and people feel. But it went from, like, Ms. is another guy to, Ms. is a future Hall of Famer.

And, like, now everybody. my God, he's a feature Hall of Famer for sure. Of course, but that wasn't the conversation five to seven years ago. Right. Something shifted and changed now where it's like, damn, Mrs. Good. I, you know, I feel like he's always been good. It's just that, like, he's such a natural heel and, like, really, like, so good at it, right? That, like, the lines with him have just always been blurred.

Like, I don't like that guy. Like, don't know. the people do you think he is with the fedora and the jorts and I was wearing tights. I don't get it. You're not supposed to get it. And the point is you're not supposed to like him. And the reason that he didn't get his flowers earlier, I don't think, is because, like, he was doing such a good job.

And now in more retrospect, like, holy crap. Like, where's this generation's miss? Yeah. That's a great question. I want to talk about some of your big moments here. We just had Elimination Chamber recently. you were the first one to have a real crazy elimination chamber spot. How did you dream this up?

You watch Elimination Chamber, right? Yeah. I mean, so when I was like a, I mean, I wouldn't say growing. Like high school, college, I was watching the chambers. I always thought they were cool. When I got signed and I was in OVW and Louisville, I started watching more closely and then I saw like a, that parkour movie, District 13, and started doing parkour a bunch and I hadn't been in a chamber

match. And then I started watching parkour and chamber matches and in my head, like, booking all these crazy things that I could potentially do in the chamber. And this is like two years before I had my first chamber match. So when I knew that I was going to be in the chamber match, I had like the 10 ideas of like different kinds of crazy. things that I wanted to do. Like, ready to go. That one was wild, though. Like, that's high when you're up there.

It's so high. It's like the one where I crawled up to the top and, like, then dropped down on Seamus. You know, it's funny. Like, when you're up there and you're dropping, it feels like you're three stories up. It doesn't look like that on TV. It's not that high.

But it feels that high. And it's also, like, when you're falling back, you just have to have a lot of trust in what's behind you. And I, man, I know Seamus, I trust the hell out of that guy. He would always be there to catch you, pick you up, and then just hit you in the face with his fist. You were in the elimination chamber match where The Undertaker got burned on the way of the ring.

Oh, my God. Yes. And like everyone's heard this story now about like a taker. Pyro being let off a little bit too soon and his jacket being like engulfed and he had to take his jacket off. So I was in the pod and I was I was washing everyone's entrances. I was in my pod locked. I coat off and I was like trying to look cool. And Paker's entrance hits and it's the stoic, you know, here he comes slowly walking. And I like see the flames go off on the ramp.

He's standing right in the middle of him. And I thought like that's so cool. Until, like, oh, he's on fire. And then, like, I see him, like, take his jacket off, throw it down. And then, like, take a few steps quickly and, like, look around and then, like, back to character. Except, like, for me, I don't know if it's really true or not, but I feel like I saw his face change from, like, you know, just like, the Undertaker Walk to just be, like, seethingly angry.

Like, and rightfully so. Like, he just got burned in front of a reedful of people. with pyro that was botched by the guy to end the fire. And the story that Taker tells is like when they were doing rehearsals, he's like, that one's a little too close and it's drafty in here. I, you know, after the Pyrro went off and Taker got on fire, the guy that was the Pyro guy, like, took his headset off and just ran and never came back. Like, Taker after the match, like, ran back to look for him and he'd been gone for like a half hour.

He never came back to work even. But back to the other part of the story. So now, like, a seethingly angry Undertaker who just was lit on fire and put his jacket out and threw it down. Never seen the man break character. He's walking to the chamber. And he's getting into his pod. And I'm thinking, like, man, like, you know what? I got, like, five or ten minutes in there with that man.

And he looks so angry. are we going to, like, wrestle? Or it's like, what's, what's going to happen? And then, like, I was, like, kind of, like, looking at Ray was in one of the pods, too, and, like, looking around. And everyone in the pods was all kind of looking at Taker and then looking at each other, like, and I looked at Taker, and he was, like, looking around, still mad, but he started doing this.

He started going, like, like, like, licking his lips, like, really weirdly. And then I started going, like, what the hell is going on? until like I stopped and I was like he like burned his mouth and his like his mustache and his face and he's trying to dry like wet his lips because they're dry and um

the match is like going and like as like a the time comes for um I think it was my pod open he might have been in there already um I was I was terrified when I got in there with him um

nothing but like the most professional like solid guy was there in the ring performing. That's him. And kind of a nervous, like, younger dude, that was me. But fantastic. I was going to talk to him after a match and thank him, but I couldn't find him because he was running around the parking lot

looking for the pyro guy. I don't know what he would have done if he found him. Your Spider-Man Save at the Rumble. How did you know you'd be capable of doing that live? Parkour, Chris? Parkour! you know, like, basically, when I'd been working on parkour,

and at that point it'd been like maybe like three, two or three years. So this was easy for you. Kind of. It was like, it was possible because I had been training parkour, like really like two or three days a week, which is difficult on the full-time WWE schedule. So that meant if I was doing four or five shows a week,

I was home, like usually a couple days during which time I would go to this gymnastics place in Culver City and train parkour on Thursdays. So that meant like, okay, well, I need to get more reps in. So on Mondays, I would get to the building at call time. And there's this period usually, this probably goes for any TV company, where everyone shows up and like you kind of talk and you go to catering and like hang out and, you know, a few hours go by and everyone finds out like what they're doing and they start putting their matches together. I would get to the building though at call time,

immediately change into gym clothes. And I kind of like in a weird Minecrafty way, like started, would move the road cases around to make obstacles to like jump on. And there was crash pads at TV. So I could assemble like obstacles for me to work on like. They made a segment out of this. Yeah.

Yeah, right? They did a segment of you doing. So like that segment was based on people seeing me like for like the year or two prior, like, doing that kind of thing backstage. Not in my gear, but, like, as, like, legitimate training. So, I think because of that, when it came time for Rumble, Dean Malenko asked me if I could think of any kind of spectacular way to do a near elimination but not be eliminated. I thought about it for a little bit and came back with that, which is basically a get kicked,

do kind of a 180 kind of jumping cat grab, which is what it's called. hauled to the barricade and then jump back to the stairs. Actually, what I was most worried about was going from the cat to the barricade, walking to jumping back to the stairs. That was more difficult than the apron to the barricade grab. What really sells it is while you're in the middle of this spectacular looking thing, you also kick William Regal. Yeah.

I mean, that's the beauty of working with experienced agents, Like Dean, aren't everyone in the Rumble. We're all like, you do this like this really cool thing. But like you got to like have like some nuts too. Like so if Regal does that and he almost throws you out and then he gets out, you should get some comeuppance for him, you know, before you get back in. And like that's the beauty of having like really experienced like agents and producers helping you come up with everything.

Your handstands save at the Rumble doesn't get talked about nearly enough. it's not as cool as the cat. Nothing's as cool as that. Yeah, but maybe more difficult, actually. Really? Yeah. For some people, handstands are like ridiculously easy. Look at Flip Gordon's stuff, for example.

I don't know how crap he does that. But thank you. Like, the handstand save I thought was really good. Sometimes the rumbull spots would cross the line into a little bit too hokey for me. And when I did the handstand spot, I thought maybe too hokey, because it has to be like,

one or two feet hit the ground, but your hands don't count. Like, that's cool, but like, at some point, like, if you're out of the ring and, like, kind of messing around on the mat and the people think you're out, like, you kind of killed your own momentum.

You inspired so many great near saves because the handstand one, I think, then many years later, inspired Casey Katanzaro, who did the handstand and then walked on her hands to get back into the race. Casey Katanzaro is a ninja. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

She has special abilities. There are people in this world that can just get their body to do whatever they want it to. And some people say that I can do that. Oh, yeah. But I'm saying that she can do that. And there's certain people that just have like crazy skills. I was asked recently on a podcast where I was a guest. They said, what's the most underrated finisher?

I said the swanton 450. Unbelievable. Both of those moves in and of themselves are crazy. You tell me you're going to do a swan ton and then also a 450. The other one I said was Starship Pain. I think there's like one person on this planet that can do that move. And he's sitting in front of me. I mean, is that a question?

Thank you. I've talked about Starship Pain before. You know, it's tricky to say that anyone ever, like, invents anything new. But I'd never seen anyone in wrestling do Starship Pain, basically, which is like a split-leg corkscrew moonsault. It's so quick, though, the way you do it. You know, it's quick and specifically a split-leg because I was doing, like, a, like basically a yang time for a finish at OVW for a while,

which is a full twist moonsault from the top rope. The problem is like that's just a lot of impact. And if it's like Matt Seidel had this problem for a while, it's like shooting star is his thing. Everyone wants to see it. That means he's got to hit it or miss it a bunch of times every match. And so for me like that cork off the top was like great for a month until I kind of like landed a little funky on my knee once.

And then another month of landing on my knee made me think, like, man, like I can do this move, but I don't think I can do it like four nights a week and sometimes twice a match if you're going to miss it and then hit it. Split leg corkscrew is a much more difficult skill technically, but less impactful on the body. So it's a really good combo of like spectacle because it's fast. It's very difficult, but it doesn't trash your knees as bad as like the top rope one does. What's the story behind the intestinizer? Oh, man. Okay. So I'd mentioned one of the things that I'd done between Tough Enoughs was I spent a lot of time breakdancing.

And I was watching like VHS tapes, like Battle of the Year, out for fame. and I saw one crew do a thing where, like, one of the guys took another guy in his crew, and he boosted him up, they put him on his head standing, and then he spun and spun the guy on top of his head, like a top, like spinning, and then popped in the guy, like, laid it on his feet and hit a coin drop, and they'll pose. And I made me think, like, wonder if you do the opposite of that as a wrestling move, whereby there's a guy on his back and I put my head in his stomach

and spin and I'll call it the intestinizer because it disrupts his GI tracts it's like a hand grenade he gets intestinized and like four days later dies kind of like I was into Kung Fu movies too but so I started training that specifically and I would like train it at

I think it's a Louisville Athletic Club I would go into the aerobics room while everyone was lifting weights and put a helmet on and like work on head spins. I'd like putting one of those aerobic blocks down to be like the guy and work on getting into it cleanly. Started hitting it on OVW shows. The guys liked it so I sometimes would like hit it while we're out at the bars on people. Like it would become a quest. Like we've got to find someone to let Johnny intestine eyes. and like I do it in like the like wherever we were

on like Bardsdown Road and the bars in OVW not very successfully while I was drunk but on shows at OVW I would hit it on Capitelli a ton who is the co-winner of Tough Enough and because I wrestled him a lot and we were tight and like at that point someone like the older guys thought it was dumb Jim Cornett thought it was also extremely dumb and told me one time

at TV after I did it on the TV taping. The goddamn Johnny, never do that. God damn hokey bullshit again. Fuck that. And the horse hit rode in on it. You know, classic cornet. So I stopped doing it there. I called up to Smackdown.

And when I was programmed with Jeff Hardy, we're wrestling on live events. I had mentioned it to him one time. And Jeff was like, yeah, man, that sounds wild. Yeah, yeah, you can do that. So I did. I hit it on Jeff, like three nights in a row. And every time Jeff's like, man, that thing is crazy. the third night,

Arne Anderson saw and said, Nitro, come here. First of all, I'm not sure how you did that. But really, I'm not sure why. Never do that shit again. God damn, it's dumb. Never.

And so I stopped doing it then. I was like 2006. But it's like this thing that's been in my mind forever. I hit it on Max Caster on AEW. A different variation, though. instead of me just like drilling with no help with MXM. Oh no, this is actually QTV with Solo and QT. I got up into the headstand and had them both grab a leg and run around Max.

And it was a little tricky because like my hair was catching on his stomach because like he wasn't oiled up at all and, you know, long hair. And so it kind of pulled my hair out a little bit. And then he was laughing. He said because it hurt. So like he was going, you know, I was like kind of bumping his stomach. And he's like, man, it was hilarious. And then I laughed. And like it started hurting really bad.

I was like, oh, I think I pulled my hair out too. So then this is a long, a long way around to get to this. I lose my hair against Angel de Oro on February 27th. And usually after Cabillera contra Cabillera match hair versus hair, they want you to wrestle after, you know, to pay it off. So on the 28th, I had another match It was a trios versus him and his sphingi for CMLL And right before we went out, it just kind of occurred to me

I was like, man, like, now I've got like a shaved head And like, Luchadors like are always very oiled up. Like the two guys I'm wrestling are just covered in baby. So in my head I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to intestinize this guy. I'm going to testinize the crap. out of them. And for some

reason, like, even though I hadn't been workshopping it in a while, I slammed him, got up into, like, the headspin position on his stomach really clean, which is sometimes tricky because it's not like the floor, it's a higher level. And then I, like, drilled him. And because of his

baby oil, moistened stomach and my bald head, I just, like, drilled. I got like a rotation and a half or two, but he sold the crap out of it. But also the people, like it was almost like a holy shit for the Arena Coliseo in Mexico City.

And they also acted like it was devastating. Is this part of the move set now? I think it has to. I mean, I've gone to like the length of thinking, like, do I like get some kind of weird hair pattern that looks like a saw on my head or cheese grater? You know, like is there some sort of like intestineers or merch? can get like a...

Ooh, good idea. Right? What do you think the highest thing you've ever jumped off is? Man. You know, Lucha Underground, they had this ledge that was really far above the ring.

This is the highest thing I've jumped off in professional wrestling, I'm assuming the question is. Yeah. It's probably slightly higher than it would be jumping from, like, the... Actually, no, a lot higher.

then jumping from the top of the ring to the floor, like in WWE. That's the highest I've jumped off. Probably like a 12, 12 foot drop maybe. I hit that once, landed on my feet, parkor rolled into a duck flying chuck kick. But it was against. It was against Big Rick,

and it was because him and the crew were beating up Prince Puma. I saved Prince Puma, because we were bros at the beginning of Lucha. But speaking of Prince Puma, the scariest thing at Lucha Underground that I did that was also almost as high was in the all-night long match I had against Prince Puma, Ricochet,

which is basically an Ironman match that lasts the entire episode. There's a bandstand that we had in Lucha Underground that's maybe like also like 10, 11, 12 feet up elevated from the ground. And I had gone up in this match. It was like four to one in my plan at that point. Heel Johnny Mundo was just going to run away from ricochet and run the clock out.

But of course, I decided to go up to the bandstand where I get caught. And he speared me off the bandstand to the floor through tables. But it was way scarier than jumping because instead of having control of it, Yeah. Like, imagine like you're falling and you're like, okay, I see that now, but like, is it going to still be there in a few seconds? It will be, of course. But it's just like this mental thing for me, like falling backwards, falling blind,

trusting him to like spot where he should like take our momentum, trusting the tables for some reason, like to not move, even though they won't move. You know what I mean? Like there's this weird illogical like stuff that comes up for a lot of people falling backwards. Makes sense. You can't see it. It ended up being perfect. We obliterated.

There's four tables, and we cut through all of them and still hit the ground. Were those higher than you, during Hell and a Cell, the PLE, you climbed onto like the set, like the entrance way, and then you jumped off of that? The Lucha Underground deck from there to the ring was slightly higher. I also, like, jumped a lot harder. and the PLE, like I jumped from off the W on a Seamus, I think you're talking about. Yeah, that too, yeah.

Was probably also about that same height, all about the same height. The difference was like, I was way more confidence after that jump. So for Lucha Underground, I like just jumped. And if you watch the jump off the W for on Seamus, it wasn't like a, yeah, it was like a, because I was a little bit nervous. You had such great chemistry with Jeff Hardy. In fact, you had a match with him

where you drop kicked him from the top of the ladder. Johnny Nitro did all kinds of crazy stuff. I mean, I remember, like, Jeff's the best. Like, anytime I suggested anything, like, or we're talking, he would always be like, damn, man, that'd be wild. Hey, Jeff, like, what if, like, instead of the eights, we used 12 foot ladders for this match. That'd be wild, man.

What? So I suggested the drop kick. That'd be wild. Before the match, I started thinking about what I had done. And it meant like, wait a minute, like, I'm going to like stand on top of an eight full ladder, then jump up higher than the ladder, and then fall on my stomach.

And he, like, has to take a bump, but not... He can kind of let on his feet or whatever he wants. And then I was out there. I didn't want to change it because I was like, I want Jeff to think I'm afraid of anything. So we did the, we got out there. I did the drop kick. And I like, if you watch the video of it,

I do get quick, like a little double clutch because I'm nervous. And then I'm like, oh, no. I hit it. And I fall to the canvas. And it was extremely scary. I bet it would hurt a lot. But I didn't notice it because, I was so pumped with adrenaline.

And Johnny Night Show was indestructible. You know, I mean, most people are indestructible in their 20s. So when you change your name to John Morrison, not indestructible anymore? John Morrison, like, played it a little safer. Johnny Mundo for Lucha Underground for some reason, like just lost all fear. There was a time between when I left WBE to Lucha Underground where I wrote Boone the Vounty Hunter and I just spent like five days a week training really hard. martial arts, tricking, flipping.

And I had a lot more, like, air awareness and coordination after that period than I'd ever had in WWE. I read that you are on your 34th name right now. Does that sound accurate? It sounds accurate, if not, underrated. I feel like there's a handful of names that I've had, like, say, Johnny Zero when I wrestled for below Zero wrestling in North Dakota for one show. There's a ton of those, like, one, one show names that I've had. So more than 34. Yeah.

It's hard to keep track of. What are some of your favorites? Ooh, Johnny Blackcraft. This is a fun one. Mostly because, like, Johnny Blackcraft was, like, after that Blackcraft wrestling. But he was, like, a heel for Blackcrafts. So his gist was, like, you know, all you, like, nerdy dudes playing with your Ouija boards in your basement. you're all sweaty and playing video games and buying funco pops.

Need to get laid because, God damn, you're an embarrassment. It was a fun character to play. Johnny Mundo, I really loved the freedom I had at Lucha Underground, and I'm proud of the work I did there. Johnny Caballero was a fun one. I wrestled as Johnny Caballero, which is this blend of kind of Johnny drip-drip Because I had, it's like a cowboy Johnny drip drip. I had gunholsters with drip sticks and sometimes a bucket of water.

And I'd also have a llama on a stick that I called Lorenzo and like a cowboy hat. And I'd ride Lorenzo to the ring with my water and drip sticks. And like squirt people with the drip sticks. I do quick draw spots. Even at a triple mania one year, a friend of mine who wrote the Johnny Cabiero song, I orchestrated him and these two amazing twin horn players, the Potech twins,

to fly to Mexico City with me to perform Johnny Cabiero entrance theme live. That was such a ridiculous character. Lorenzo Lamas, also, by the way, did the voice of the llama once for the finale of Johnny Lois Taya season one. They didn't do enough with Johnny

Drip, trip. Oh, man. First of all, Taya hates Johnny Drip Drip, she just does not like the word moist. Most of Johnny Drip-Drip's things are based on the fact that Taya hates hearing moist. So America's Moist Wanted, the most Moist C superstar. I made the choice to be moist. Got the moist voice. Like, all that stuff was like, ha.

And then at some point I realized, like, maybe I went too far. Like, she's not like, like, huh? Funny? She's like, no, seriously. Don't say that. How many names do you have right now? Oh, I don't know. Oh, currently?

Currently. So currently, I'm Johnny TV with AEW. Yeah. Johnny Kinsejo with CMLL. Yeah. But the last match I had, they, Analdi Oro, flipped it to Johnny Culvo,

which means bald Johnny, basically. I don't know if that counts as an official name. But I guess that would be three, unless you count some of of the little indie shows that I've got coming up, which I haven't even taken the names of the feds yet, but I'd love to. You're almost 25 years into your career now.

Side question about names. Sure. What do you think about RussellCon merch, shirt with all of the Johnny names on it? That's pretty good. Kind of like a band tour shirt of like all the places. Would you then have dates as to when all those names existed?

Dates. It is. Maybe. You'd have to figure that out. Yeah. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. They used to have a jersey. Sorry.

I know. They used to have a jersey that would hang in one of the storefronts as you were walking to the stadium. And it started with Tim Couch, who was the quarterback when the Browns came back to Cleveland in 99. Right. And then his name was crossed off, replaced with the next one, the next one, the next one. And it was like all the way down, past the end of the jersey.

Like, it would be a similar type of thing. Some version of that. Yeah. Would be cool. Because there's a lot. If anyone sees this, comments on this video, name shirt, yes,

no, maybe. Johnny name shirt. Would that be the front of the shirt or the back of the shirt? Let's design the shirt right now. I feel like back of the shirt. I agree.

Like a tour shirt. Yeah. Front of the shirt? I don't know. So then it says like Johnny on the front or if it's like. Johnny Forever? It's not the name.

That's not good. No. I'm not there yet. You know, the Hardys are doing like to infinity? Yeah? Like they're doing start date to infinity? I mean, you know, I ever saw this Johnny Hardy once. Do you know that?

I did not know that. I filled in for Jeff. Tagged with Matt at AA and they announced Johnny Hardy. It works. I think that counts. It was advertised. So what would be on the front of the shirt? I don't know.

Like Johnny, we're like... Yeah, I don't know. Just your face? No. Like, I feel like faces on T-shirts... are like very specific to like wrestling and sometimes like maybe something that a wrestling fan would wear to an event. And this shirt I feel like would be nice if it was, uh, understated enough so that like anyone

who knew what it was was like, that's cool. Yeah. But not like so that like everyone who saw the shirt was like, who the hell is that guy? Yeah. What's his face on your shirt? You want someone to like, who doesn't watch wrestling to be like, that's a cool shirt. Yeah. What's it mean?

Yeah. Well, there's this wrestler that he was John Morrison and WWE, Johnny TV and AEW. Johnny Impact. Johnny TV is what they'd say, probably. His real name is John Henigan, and like, so then he had hair and now he doesn't have hair. And he changed his name again because the hair. But it looks great. And I hate him.

Get a shirt. I hate him because he looks so good without the hair. And like, he's still jacked. And it's just really not fair to everybody else. But now he can spin on people's stomachs because there's no hair. It's the whole thing. I don't know. I feel like the people in the comments

could design a great shirt for you. Oh, yeah. Somebody in the comments, like, just design it, send it. We're going to print it up if it doesn't suck. You're going to get a bunch of DMs with people being like, hey, here's an idea. Oh, man, I've got to check my DMs.

I'm not bad at that. Well? I'll check my DMs. Okay. If you guys are listening to this, you DM me. After this goes up, I'm going to check my DMs for 10 days. 10 days.

So there'll be the other, folder on Instagram, and then there's the other other folder, you know, the one like, hey, we think this might be spam. Yeah. But some, there are some good messages in there sometimes. I mean, like, Ty is good at that stuff. Okay. Yeah.

There you go. I'd buy one of these shirts. I'd give you one for half off. Half off. What a deal. It's like the old JR scheme. Guys got a cone of my rib joint. It's fantastic barbecue.

You get there, it's like, no one gets free ribs, but you get free desserts. What? I give your shirt. What's the highlight of your? career. The highlight on my career, I think, is always will be and should be what's coming next. Sounds cheesy. I said that before, but I feel like you can say there's been a lot of high points, but if in your mind, like the high point of your career, maybe even your life doesn't lie ahead, then really kind of messes with you mentally.

And I'm not ever saying, like I'm not saying that maybe like in 10 years I'll be more athletic than I am now. But the version of like me that is sitting here right now is like capable of stuff that I wasn't capable of 10 years ago. And because of that, I'd like to always think that what's next is the most exciting for me. I don't know if I subscribe to the idea

of you're only as good as your last match or you're only as good as your last game. I like to subscribe to that after I've just won a match. Like, after you have to beat someone, then you tell them you're only as good as your last match. Because when you say that, I think it discounts like the career-making moments. Like, tell Freddie Freeman that you're only as good as your last game

when he hit a walk-off Grand Slam in the World Series. Yeah. Right? Like, no, that's the moment people are always going to remember about that guy. So that's interesting because agreed completely, but from his point of view, I mean, I would hope that he's constantly excited about what's ahead.

While he's still playing, for sure. No, but even after, like, what's ahead, I guess then it's not necessarily in your career, but it's in your life. But while he's still playing for sure. But that's definitely a defining moment. You think about, like, Tom Brady and, like, what a career, but, like, one of the great moments

is the comeback in the Super Bowl. Like, that might be the greatest Super Bowl game of all time. Yeah. Now that his career's done, you can go, yeah, are you only as good as your last game? Because for Tom Brady, it was a loss in the playoffs. That's that you're only as good as that? Okay, I completely agree with that. So if we're thinking about like career making moments, yeah, there's, it's easy to list them.

Like, I for some reason, hate the concept of being asked, what is the one thing that's best or your one favorite? I always, like, switch it subtly to hear us. some of my favorites or best memories because it change over time. But I'm sure you've had inflection points. So you talked about winning the ECW title being one of them. That's huge. That's an inflection point. Eminem's debut on their debut match on Smackdown, 2005, I went from being called up

as apprentice to Eric Bischoff, Johnny Nitro, to being sent back down to OVW because I was green. I was. Then spending like six months to a year starting to get nervous. people are getting fired, people are getting called up around me. Then finally, Eminem gets called up as a package. And I'd been doing videos for us and sending them to the office. And then we debut in Chicago and Carlydus Cabana.

The next night, our first match is against Eddie and Ray at MSG. It's like two long segments, and the finish is us winning the titles off those guys. Legends. That was a pretty big night. Oh, man. You remember being told that and going, excuse me, we're winning? Yes. And like it also made things kind of make sense because prior to that, we'd been wrestling

like Bob Holly and Charlie Haas on like live events for months and just getting this crap kicked out of us. Like eardrums, rushed. Like burst of sacks and my knee and my elbow just like bursting. My joints are filled with fluid getting knocked out. And I feel like, oh yeah, I bet you those guys. knew, which is why that happened. And again, I feel like that's not wrong in wrestling. It toughened us up, for sure. It toughened me up. But that one night made me feel like I was nervous about so many things. Like, is this the right path for me? Like, am I wasting my time? How can I convince people that I can

do this to like, oh, okay, well, they must have enough faith that I can do this to make me a tag team champion and now I am called up and now I'm part of the roster and I'm not just going to have a try. I'm going to get a couple swings at bat. I'm allowed to like strike, catch a couple strikes. The ECW championship, another big one. You know, there's one moment in my career that was always sticks out to me. You mentioned you're from Cleveland and that was a wrestling room stereo in Cleveland for the IC title. And the reason it's stuck out because is because, is because I was a face and he was a face. And walking into that match, I kept thinking like, man, I'm a heel tonight.

I mean, there's no way anyone gets cheered against Ray. And the fans were fantastic that night. They were like cheering for me, like almost as loudly as they were cheering for him. But they were like for both of us, you know, like, let's go Morris and let's go. It was a live crowd that weren't like, booing anything. They were just stoked for the match. And that stuck out to me, like, that like, wow, like, okay. Like if the feedback that I got from this live crowd is like, they're cool with me, like, winning this,

beating Ray for the I see title and still cheering, then I belong here. It's pretty amazing that you can say. I beat Ray Mysterio for the Intercontinental Championship. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. What do you think the best chant is? what's what's what's what's what's what's the best chant that you've maybe even been on the receiving end of i mean see there's all the typical ones i'm trying to think um what are some of your favorite chants i love both these guys i do too like uh i i can't remember exactly like uh like some of the

wrestling is wrestling like uh let's go johnny let's go johnny let's go johnny let's go john i was wrestling like uh somebody named john and i feel bad so i was i was thinking of it was thinking That's pretty good. Both these guys, Fight Forever is such a good one. Fight Forever is solid. Please Don't Die. Please Don't Die. Please don't die.

I think of what I think of that. I think he started the Please Don't Die. Really? Yeah, Ring of Honor way back. Holy shit, I think. So here's like what I say or what I said a lot in Luch Underground to people. There are a chance like fight forever and holy shit that are awesome because it means you're having an awesome match.

But there's also chance like, zero mea-dalo, and that's different because they're into Pentagon, specifically, the character of Pentagon. They want to see Pentagon. And he is having a holy shit match, and they love his matches too. But that I feel like is a really important distinction to make for wrestlers. Like, holy shit chance means you're doing a great job. But how do you take a holy shit, a holy shit. chance and convince people that, like, you're going to deliver that every match. So they should start chanting your name in some form or fashion because they know that those

two mean the same thing. Kind of, that feels like the delineation to the ECW chant, right? Like, when things were really awesome in ECW, ECW, ECW, ECW. ECDAB! Yeah, totally. But, like, there was also, like, RVD chance back then, you know? Yeah. Specific, like, a chance for, like, like, their favorite character.

characters. Yeah. How do you feel about that this is awesome chant? Love it. I feel like it's great when it matters. Not everything can be awesome. You know, I don't mind any chant, especially this is awesome that's positive because it usually means the fans are having a good time. And sure, sometimes, like, you get like kind of smart-ass crowds that like you lock up and this is awesome, this is awesome. And it's a little bit like satiric. But it, I think really just means that they're into the match. They like you guys. Both guys.

You're in phenomenal shape. You've always been in phenomenal shape. What's this about grating cheese on your abs? Have you been watching Johnny Loves Taya season two? Because the episode two tag, so we call it, is at the end of every episode of season two, you're watching Johnny TV. And now cooking with chef Johnny is the end of episode two. and it's just like a quick, like 15 and 30 second, like, hey, everybody, I'm Chef Johnny,

and today we're going to make a ham and cheese sandwich. First, you're going to want some parts skim mozzarella cheese and your abs. And we're going to grade this cheese. And so, and then it cuts is how we end the episode two. But it is a thing, the grading cheese on my abs. Have you ever tried it? I have abs, but I don't have John Morrison abs. So you've never tried, like, grading cheese on your own abs or, like, tasted the cheese that I've

grated on my abs. Can't say how much. I'm just joking. I say part-skim mozzarella is best because like, you're like, you're going to want to eat it and you don't want to have all the fat from whole milk. But it started when I was like way back as John Morrison. I think I just mentioned it like once or twice about

how like I make a tasty omelette with my ab cheese. An omelette, you try it. Ladies. Bumelette. I was saying stuff like that, and then I did a radio show in like 2009 or 10 with Ms. in Fresno, and the DJs were like, so serious question for you, John. I've heard a lot about you saying you grab cheese. I heard a lot about you saying you can shred cheese on your abs.

And we have some cheese here, and we're ready to see if that's true. We've got video cameras. we're going to do this live on the radio. I had never actually tried it until that point, and it worked. Like, it actually worked. So, technically, I don't know if it's specifically grading cheese, but what happens with abs,

and especially, like, kind of cool cheese and a warm tummy with abs is, cheese kind of like rolls off into these little like rolly things that look like it's been graded and you could use them to make a ham and cheese sandwich or an hummel.

I guess if anyone's watching and I want to try this at home like low moisture mozzarella is good Havardi cheese is good. You want something cool like don't do Parmesan because it's too hard and you want it to be kind of cool

not freezing and you want your body temperature to be like a little warm to high, you know, the difference in temperature is going to make a difference. I can't believe this is a real thing. I actually wish that I brought some cheese. We could both be grading cheese right now. Checking your watch. Wait a minute.

We're going right out of time for Chris to trade cheese on his ass. Wow, yeah. I might need a week to, you know, lean out a little more. I don't know. That was another idea I had for merch maybe at Russell Con. Omelets. Everyone talks about Bad Bunny's match with Priest. because of the incredible entrance in Puerto Rico.

They got an espie for that. What an entrance. What an entrance. The match you were part of at WrestleMania 37, I feel, gets skipped over. They had the SP for the match at WrestleMania 37. Specifically, those two guys. Oh. Only.

Which is totally fine. But that was kind of like, that allowed the audience to see what Bad Bunny could do, which then set up for the amazing match at Bad Bunny. backlash in Puerto Rico. Right. You know, Bad Bunny, Benito, man, I am the biggest fan of that guy. Like, he coming into that match is Bad Bunny, the number one recording artists in the world. Honestly, I'd heard his songs, but didn't even know who he was until I heard that I was maybe going to wrestle him. Then looked him up and I was like, oh, that's the guy on Cardi's track. And like, I know him. And like, oh, my God, he's so big. He's huge.

He's so famous. Sometimes when you beat people that are that famous, they're like a little bit kind of standoffish or just people at arm's length. Not him. He was like obviously like very busy and had a lot of people around him kind of only like allowing like

the type of conversations that needed to be had with him so he didn't get bombarded. But he was humble. His work ethic was insane. He, canceled some shows to relocate to Orlando so he could train for that WrestleMania match. And he was in the performance center training every day

and opened to ideas and having ideas of his own. And it also mattered a lot that he was a lifelong wrestling fan because he kind of just had this natural instinct of how it should feel to have a match and how to work the crowd obviously is. a lot of practice working crowds. But what other nice things can I say about him that I haven't?

You took a bunny destroyer from him? He wanted to do something crazy or like just pretty like special. And I thought about it and mentioned the bunny destroyer to him without mentioning it to any of the agents. Because I felt like if he wanted to do that, I know it. could. And I know that maybe agents wouldn't like it, safety, whatever. But he was completely into it. We, I think, nailed one of my best Canadian takes, like, ever, with the bunny destroyer on the floor. And, yeah, man, like, props to Bad Bunny. It's a giff now. It's a giff on Instagram. It's like when you type in Bad Bunny,

There's only a few. That's one of them. Famous. Obviously. Johnny famous. I'm friends with Bad Bunny. You know, he did the Super Bowl. I know.

I'm just kidding. Sounds like he might wrestle again, too. I hope so. He should. He is an entertaining. He's like, he is going to do whatever he wants to do because he's just good at everything.

And everyone likes him because it's just hard to not like him. Yeah. And the songs are so catchy. I know. Yeah. You know, he really blew it, though, by not collaborating with Miz and I on a song. I don't know if you followed the story.

the three of us probably could have won whatever they called. The song awards called. Grammys. Grammys. Grammys. A Grammy. We could have won a Grammy. Probably.

Definitely probably. You know, AJ Stiles says he's going to shave his head now that he's retired. Oh, really? He said when he's done, like, he doesn't need long hair anymore. I mean, he should drop it in Mexico. You could provide him with some tips. No, he's done wrestling, so. I mean, he's not.

he could probably go back. Well, that's the thing about wrestling. He already said he was losing his hair, though. So now he'd be too obvious. Right. You're right. Do people think you were going to lose going in? Oh, no.

Like, the fans of CML, especially, were starting to get really upset that, like, Johnny Canseo just changes his name and shows up and it's going to probably just take under the Oro's hair and leave? No, this is bullshit. Which I thought was really great. Even on hell, like I thought that he was going to have to shave his head. He didn't know. Like, I mentioned it to him once.

And he was like, no, no, no, no, you, no, you can't shave your head. It's like, okay, we'll see. Well, again, we hate you for looking great with a shaved head and for still being shredded all the time. By necessity. I mean, like, you are redefining the term dad. bought, right? I did. Look at you. Yeah, I mean, I'm in, I mean, just look at you. Would you look at it? Look at it. Just look at it. Just look at it. I'm in good shape.

You're a fantastic shape. I'm in pretty good shape. You're a pretty good shape. You're a podcaster and a dad. Like, I'm in pretty, thank you. You don't need to be in great shape, but like you, you can be really don't. Like, but you are because it probably just like makes your life better. For sure. And I think that that's, the gym is the cure for a lot of things. Right. Agreed. Like, you never leave the gym going,

that was a terrible idea. I say that exact thing to people. Even if you don't want to be in there, you always leave going, I'm so glad I convinced myself to do that. I'm so glad I woke up early. I'm so glad it drove to the gym, whatever the case is.

It's like the opposite of going out to the bar. Yes. It's so true. Because you never wake up and say like, oh, man, I'm so glad I went out and drank all that last night. Oh, yeah. I'm glad I didn't sleep that much

and I'm glad I have a headache. But I started working out at 16 just because, like, I watched wrestling. I had dreams and goals to be a pro wrestler. And like, I was a backyard wrestler and then I did train for a little while. So, like, I think that working out was rooted in that. I mean, I can vouch for springboards people. I don't know if it's true. The first interview we did. In your backyard. Yeah. But I think for me, working out just turned into like, just loved the way that you feel. I completely agree. Immediate source of energy right there. Like, you get like those like natural endorphins. Like, I got hooked on running. On the runner's high. Yeah. And I don't really run

anymore just because of, you know, the joints. But I feel like the gym for me has become this kind of like meditative place sometimes. Yeah, I could see that. Especially when I'm doing like my flow mo type stuff, which is like the yoga, animal flow type warmups, just kind of like get really into like how everything's feeling and make sure like any problem area I have, like my radio. was bug on me, for example, is warmed up and stretched and, like, the end ranges of motion have been kind of, like, worked over. And if I don't get that, like, for a day or two, for me, actually, like, I start to get agitated. I feel like I'm, like, if I was here and I hadn't worked out in a while, it literally would be

thinking right now, like, I've got to go to the gym. Jim, I got to go to the gym. There's a gym around the corner on Cole. Hollywood Golds. You've been there? It's not gold anymore. It's a US Fitness. No. That's what I'd be thinking the whole time. That's a good addiction to have. It's open until midnight. When I was living in Miami, I got into like, I wanted to see how lean I could get, how shredded I could get.

Because my co-host, her boyfriend at the time was a fitness photographer. So he's like, if we set a date at the time, we can go like. I thought you were going to say it was in shape and you wanted to show him up. He's like, if we set a date in a time, like, well, we'll, we'll, we set a date in a time, like, well, do like a professional shoot. So I was like, okay, let's dial this in. So like, I dialed it in where like for like half an hour, I was like almost as lean as you.

I'll show you actually. You'll see. I feel like you're like a very kind of modest, humble guy and I've got a feeling this picture you're going to show me. You're going to be completely ripped. I don't know about that. And way later than me. Not leaner than you?

Yeah. I don't even think that's possible. Yeah, it is. Like anyone, like anyone can get lean. Like, it's definitely possible. I think some people can get lean. I'll pull this up here and somewhere on my phone. No, anyone can get lean, but like there's just a lot of factors that come into it,

like health, genetics and things. And it's a much harder road. Here it is. I was lean. It's like a, is that an APEC? I don't know. It was airbrushed? No, that's straight out of the camera.

Man, like, I don't have great vision and I can still see all the apps. That's extremely neat. Redefining the dad bod. And he's like, you're running in that? I was dragging a tire. Oh, and you can't see the tire. There's a spot on South Beach where it's like an outdoor gym. So that was one of the things that he was like,

throw the tire around your waist and let's see what that looks like. The one thing that I learned about like muscle photos from, you know, I just did this photo shoot for the cover of muscle fitness in 2010 at Gold's Venice. The Rock showed up for it. But anyway. That's amazing. That's amazing.

That's true. I was having trouble, like, in the Rock's words, like, looking manly, he said. And it helped me to hold, like, two 30-pound dumbbells by my side because it kind of just made me retract by shoulder blades and kind of keep everything tight. But, like, the photo was cropped so you couldn't see them anyway. And, like, in that photo, because you're pulling the sled behind you and I couldn't even see the sled. it's like a little trick. But holding the dumbbells instantly makes the bicep vein pop out.

Yeah. That's a good trick. It's a good trick. The editor at the point said maybe like one out of every five cover photos was dude holding dumbbells out of the frame. Smart. Okay, now we're going to do this in every photo. Oh, yeah. Well, great to see you.

Great to see you. Thanks for having me. I feel like we could keep talking for another hour or two. Well, it's just great to always catch up. with you. Yeah. We could talk for four more hours probably. But then we couldn't come back and do another episode of your pod. We'll have to see how much hair you have the next time you come on. Oh, yeah, good question. This looks. It looks great. I think I should grow my hair out to try to match your hair. So when I come back for another episode of your podcast, we can have the same hair.

It's not like you were like George Costanza. Like, you know, it's not like your hairline was back here. No, look at the Instagram video of me doing that quark at jam that I mentioned. Yeah. play that and then you can you can kind of see like the little like little baldness kind of creeping into the top of my head on that one. Maybe. Anyway. I will ask you the same question I've asked you every time. What are three things, John, that you're grateful for today?

Three things that I'm grateful for today are number one. Season two of Johnny Loves Taya finally airing. I would say us being finished taping it, but we're not, because now that I shave my head, we're going back and retaping some stuff to make it make sense, which is still fun. We've worked really hard and long on that for season two. I'm glad that it's out.

It's on AEW's YouTube channel. Please check it out. If you do, I'll be grateful for that too. That's two things, but I'll just count it as one. I'm grateful for Taya. You know, the person that you hold closest to yourself, I think, is just such a big factor determining your happiness and your state of mind. And I'm really lucky to have her. And I'm lucky that she thinks I look cool, bald.

And, you know, just because I'm in the mood today to say, you and everybody in, like, this wrestling business. that accepts kind of like the weird absurdness of all the characters that we all are. Like you're not a normal dude. I'm definitely not a normal dude. Like entertainers are kind of strange. And being able to be in that family and accepted by people like you is something I'm grateful for. When you think about what you do for a living.

Yeah. It's out there. I mean, like when you break down what a pro wrestler does. Like, when I was training last night at the gym by my house, there's like, it's kind of like an elite gym. And wrestling fans aren't there. It's just like kind of a small private gym. And like a couple of guys are like, whoa, you shaved your head?

Like just the fact that I was like, oh. So like for work, I went to Mexico City and I put my hair on the line. And I lost it and had to have my head shaved. I've never been to Mexico. And they're like, what? Did you know you were going to lose? What? You're like, that's all I have time for.

Yeah, then they shaved my head in the middle of the ring. And, you know, like the clippers didn't have a guard, so usually kind of gassed me a little bit, but whatever. How was your weekend? The answer to that question is usually, like, much more like, you know, like it took the kid to the soccer game. Yeah, I went to Trader Joe's. I mean, everyone knows Trader Joe.

Love Trader Joe's. Yeah, Trader Joe's. Sponsors, please. Well, again, thank you, sir. Anytime. Thanks for having me. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all.

Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom.

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