Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Josh Alexander Is A Free Agent! TNA, 5 Star Matches, Will Ospreay, Breaking His Neck, C4 Piledriver

Starting point is 00:00:00 Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Right. Welcome back to another one here on Insight, my friends. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. This is such a good one today. Thank you for being with us. And thank you, as always, for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet.

Starting point is 00:00:35 Grab your phone right now and hit a pile driver on that follow button on Apple or Spotify. We've got some big episodes coming up. to wrap up the year. Actually, we've got a huge guest on Thursday, someone that I've been trying to get on the show for years. So you won't want to miss that. Also, I know these Spotify wrapped lists will be coming out very soon. So if by chance, Insight is on that list of your top podcast of the year. Tag me so that we can share it out. I've known Josh Alexander for years. He was tearing it up on the independent circuit in Ontario, Canada for years.

Starting point is 00:01:15 Him and Ethan Page were a tag team known at that time as Monster Mafia. When Josh signed with TNA in 2019 and reunited with Ethan Page, they became known as the North. You already know that because I'm sure you're a TNA fan. But after they split up, Josh broke out as one of the absolute best technical wrestlers in the business. And we talk about some of his iconic matches, but if you haven't seen these, go check out his matches with TJP, Mike Bailey, or Will Osprey, just to name a few.

Starting point is 00:01:49 Now, Josh has decided that after six years with TNA, he's officially going to be a free agent as of February 15th. He says he wants to test the market, wants to see what's out there for him. And I feel like with the skill set that he has, he could really sign anywhere and he would fit right in in any company right now. Josh is the kind of guy who just goes out there night after night and just leaves it all in the ring. There's a reason that he's been one of the faces of TNA over the last few years because he has a work ethic that is unmatched. Snap a screenshot, tag us so we can share it out.

Starting point is 00:02:27 He's at Walking underscore Weapon. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Walking Weapon, Josh Alexander. black eye. You came in here with a black guy? What happened? I got headbutted in the face on Saturday. Friday. Yeah. So this is a few day old black eye. Yeah. There's a good one though. But I mean, look how badass it makes you look. I just get weird looks at the gym because I forget and I'm like, why are these people looking at me weird? I'm like, oh yeah, my face. Well, there's a funny thing, right? Because when you're in wrestling that much, you just kind of

Starting point is 00:03:03 accept that as your norm. And then when you step out into like the real world, you're like, oh, yeah. Not everybody. You know, just walks around with black eyes all the time. for me, like, it's been a constant over the past three to four years. Like, it's either like a cut on my forehead or my eye swollen shut or my nose is like busted. I've been kind of, like, my reputation in TNA is like if he's not bleeding, he's not trying. Because like, I had a streak of like every major match coming to the back. Like my nose broke at BFG with Eddie Edwards. And like the next show, it was just like my lip was busted open. My eye was swelled shut. Like, it's just a constant thing that happens with me. But I've been, I was on a good run for like the past

Starting point is 00:03:40 three to four months, man. I came out on skates and then all of a sudden, of course, before I'm coming to do this, I get headbutted directly in the eye socket. That's a tough standard to keep up to, you know, if you want to be bleeding every single time. It's not that I wanted to. I'm not that foolish. But I just have a thing. Like, so many people, like, they shy away from contact and stuff.

Starting point is 00:04:00 And I'm like, I want this to look good. Like, I'm not throwing my head into it so I get concussed. But I'm just like, I'm not going to, you're not going to see me do this on a super kick. Like, I have an ear padding with my head gear. So I'm always kind of like, aim for this. and if they'll slip off and hit my eye, like, whatever. But now you wrestle in like a really, like, aggressive way. Like, I feel like if someone hadn't watched wrestling before and they watch a Josh

Starting point is 00:04:21 Alexander match, they're like, oh, damn, like, he really hates that guy. Uh-huh. Well, it's kind of what I went for it. Whether it was like a healer or baby face, I kind of wanted to always be like, I heard William Regal say this thing in 2012. And I was there doing extra work and stuff. And he sits you down the first day at Raw. And he just kind of talks to all of us.

Starting point is 00:04:40 And he was just like, I think he was talking about Brian Danielson, Daniel Bryan. And he was like, that guy can do everything. He can make you laugh. He can make you cry. He can make you scared. And for his stature, it's like unprecedented for what he's able to do. Like he's obviously like, if not the best wrestler, one of the best wrestlers of all time, right? He was just like, but he doesn't sell tickets to the kids right now.

Starting point is 00:05:00 He's the one that goes out there and wrestles a certain style so that the parents are going, oh my God, this guy's an ass kicker. Like that, that looked real. That looks legit. Like at no point in time. time of the parents going, ah, that's phony, like all this other stuff. You know, we're not coming back to this. He's making sure the parents that buy the tickets for the kids want to come back again. And, like, that was the thing. And I was just like, it really kind of like resonated with me.

Starting point is 00:05:21 And I was just like, that's kind of what I like to do and have been doing. So I'm just going to focus on that more. And it's just expanded over the past 10, 12 years. There's something about the way you deliver that one punch. I mean, you don't need to peel it back that much, but what, how do you do it? Well, it was a lot of practice, man. You're talking thousands of punches just to learn the distance and all this stuff. So you're not killing people. But my trainer, you would make us get out of the ring and punch the ring posts. So I mean, it sounds barbaric, and it is. But it works. Like pain's a very valuable teacher. You either hit that post so hard, you're going to hurt yourself. Yeah. And then you understand, like, that's too hard. You're going to stiff somebody, knock him out, do something. Or you get the timing just perfect. So like, anytime, like, I have. the distance off. Like right now, I could punch you over the table and I just, all you feel is like a little tap. It's, and it's amazing like in the match with Osprey, you came like running at him and like landed it and I was like, that looked like a real knockout punch. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just practice makes perfect, man. Like I tell my students even now at K&M and Windsor like get out punch walls. Like as your fridge doors closing, when you grab something, throw a punch while it's moving and try to get your distance down.

Starting point is 00:06:34 And like, when I first did it, obviously, I'm 18, 19 years old. And like, it looks like, you know, remember bloody knuckles? This is like a barbaric game from where in high school where you flip loonies and tunis. Sorry, Americans had your knuckles and see it was tougher. But like, I had like little blood spots on my fridge door from hitting it too hard and stuff like that. And yeah. I love explaining to Americans that we have a $2 coin in Canada. So why is it called a loony?

Starting point is 00:07:00 Well, there's this bird. It's called a loon. and on the $1 coin, there's a loon. So we call it a loony. Oh. So why is it called the Toony? Well, there's bears on the Tooney,

Starting point is 00:07:14 but because it's two Loonies, Tooney. Oh, okay. Yeah. It came out when I was like seven and I never even questioned it until this moment when you're talking about it. It's just, I get it.

Starting point is 00:07:28 But I think here it's like, you know, there's something about like having the actual physical one. to, you know, dollars that you're putting out. Yeah. And when I go home, though, I always look at the loony or the tuning and I'm like, man, that's cool. Like, that's just cool that we have one of those things. Yeah, vending machines are different in Canada, man.

Starting point is 00:07:44 Yeah. Yes, you can put a lot of coins into it. Yeah. So where are you at? You're a free agent in February? February 15th, there'll be a free agent. I mean, TNA announced my, uh, they extended me, picked up a year extension February 14th last year.

Starting point is 00:08:00 So yeah. And then to a free agency for the first. time. How do you feel about it? Equal parts nervous, equal parts excited. You know, obviously, like, there's the one end of the spectrum where you're like, nothing might come of this. Like, you have to be realistic. Like, I have kids. I have a wife. I have a house I pay for and stuff like that. And like, you know, I can just do wrestling because I love it because that's all I've ever really done. That's what kind of led me through this business the entire time. Just getting fulfillment out of it's the most important part to me. And as long as I get to do it at some level, I'm happy.

Starting point is 00:08:31 I do indie still to this day where I get tons of fulfillment, very happy to do it. And that might be it. I might just be doing indies. It might be back to a construction to feed my family and stuff like that. But every so often you got to bet on yourself. And I just, what was it, five years ago, it was Santana is one of my very good friends. And he was finishing up with TNA at the time, Impact Wrestling. And we had an indie date.

Starting point is 00:08:58 And he actually debuted the next night. But I didn't know that. He never told me anything like that. that. So we're just, you know, chilling out of the hotel. It's just like, what made you like, you know, want to leave or, you know, really look at it as an option? Because he's very happy at impact at the time. They were very successful, obviously. And he was like, I just didn't, we just didn't know what more we could do. We've held these tag team championships this many times. We've had this many amazing matches with this tag team and this tag team. It's just like,

Starting point is 00:09:25 every once in a while, you got to think about what's coming next and what's going to excite you. because he kind of alluded to the fact that he hadn't been excited in quite some time. And I was just like, man, that really hits because like now I'm thinking about my own thing. I'm just like I've done so much in TNA over the six years. I'm very grateful for it because like opportunities are like the one thing wrestlers need. And like TNA has given me tons of countless opportunities to prove myself and show what I can do. But I've also done everything and worked with the bulk of the talent that's in that company right now. So it's just all about what's going to get me excited beyond this point.

Starting point is 00:10:00 Well, your career has been so interesting because it's been about constantly leveling up. I remember for so long when you were the guy on the Ontario indie scene, when you were just like, I want to get a contract. Like that contract will make me feel like I've accomplished something, right? So then you get a contract. And then you and Ethan Page as the North, they're like, I want to be one of the best tag teams in the world. Well, then that's part of the thing.

Starting point is 00:10:22 You've leveled up to that. You're one of the best tag teams in the world. Well, what could I do on my own? Well, then you shatter records in TNA on your own. And it's like you're constantly like pushing things forward and leveling up. And it's just amazing that now you're at the stage of your career. We're like, what else is there out there for me? And that's like the big question mark.

Starting point is 00:10:42 Because like I don't I don't know what the next step is. Like I've been ragged on it in the past for saying like I never had the dream of main eventing WrestleMania. And I know like, you know Hunter himself has had the quote being like, if you don't want to be the top guy here, then you're in the wrong business. And it's not that I don't want to be the top guy or. don't think I have the ability to be the top guy or anything like that. It's just, it was never my childhood dream because, like, I honestly never thought anything that I'm doing or have done was even possible. So this is all just like this amazing, like, trip I've been on the entire time. And it's just been setting little goals along the way, like you said, like from, you know,

Starting point is 00:11:17 I want to win this Ontario Indy Promotions World Championship, too. I want to get paid a certain amount to wrestle too. I want that contract to kind of validate all this work and all this travel. and running cars into the ground for little and no money to drive to Chicago and back and one night and make it back for work the next day and stuff like that. And then you achieve that contract and like all this other stuff I've been able to do. And now I'm sitting here going like, what could I possibly do next? That's going to be the next step. And it's just like I need to grow, you know, my name.

Starting point is 00:11:48 And like I feel like I've established myself as a top guy in TNA and, you know, whatever might be next after that. I mean, I'll find out and then I'll set those other goals. Well, if anybody's been watching you over the last few years, you're one of the best wrestlers in the world. So your options are wide open when February comes around. It could be staying with TNA, renewing there. It could be AEW, WW, WW, New Japan, or something else. Is there one way or another that you're leaning? I mean, I would say no, just because I'm looking at everywhere right now.

Starting point is 00:12:22 Like, both my sons are wrestling nuts, Jet, especially my six-year-old. Monday's Raw, Tuesday's NXT, Wednesday's Dynamite, like Thursday's Impact. Like, I'm watching everything with my kids all week long, which is awesome because I get to share this passion with them.

Starting point is 00:12:36 At the same time, I'm watching the product going, you know, looking at NXT being like, man, you know, me and Ethan could tag up and we can face that tag team. That'd be awesome. Or like, you know, I'd really love to have a match

Starting point is 00:12:46 with like Pete Dunn or Gunther or, you know, the list goes on. And then you watch Dynamite. And I'm just like, man, I've torn it up with Will and Takeshda in the past. Like, I would sure love to do that on a bigger stage.

Starting point is 00:12:56 and like one bucket list thing I might have, like a wrestler that's still, you know, out there wrestling that I would really love to get a chance to wrestle his edge. He's an AEW, you know what I mean? And then there's Japan. We're like, Shingo's the one guy in my bucket list that like was like, this is doable.

Starting point is 00:13:13 I'm going to make this happen. And like him and Ishi, we're like neck and neck. And I made the Ishi match happen. Shingo's the other one. So I just look at like the landscape of it where I can go and where the talent is I want to work with. Everybody's kind of stacked.

Starting point is 00:13:25 you know, roster-wise and like just, you know, to be able to tell stories and stuff like that with these people, like, the options are all open. What's it going to come down to? What's the thing that you're looking for, for whatever that next move is? Hmm. Probably just personal fulfillment. And like that, a bunch of things go into that. Like, I love wrestling. I love the actual act of wrestling. You give me 20 minutes on TV or pay-per-view. I'll go out there and I'll do everything I can to make magic happen. So where the opportunities come, that's probably the most important part, right? But, you know, obviously money plays a factor. Like I said, two sons, a wife. I need to upgrade, you know, where we're living because my kids are

Starting point is 00:14:04 only getting bigger and more crazy and stuff like that. And you're in a different stage of your life, right? You've got to think about providing for a family. You're not a single guy who's out there and you're just doing it for you. Yeah. Yeah. And like I can't say that's not a big part of it. You know what I mean? But like I'm just lucky to be in this situation where like you said, come February 15th, like there's going to be people that are interested in me and we're going to have to figure out where it falls. Like I said, TNA's not out of the conversation. Like I told them, I just, I want to experience free agency for the first time in my career. I'm very grateful for everything we've been able to do over the six years.

Starting point is 00:14:36 And we've continued to do this year since they picked up my extension. But yeah, so it all comes down to February 15th. Who's calling me and who's saying what? Was there a certain moment in TNA where you went, I don't want to, I want to experience free agency. this thing happened and now I want to just see what my options are. I wouldn't say one specific moment. The entire world title ring was like I thought it was really successful. Like doing these pay-per-view matches month after month with these all sorts of different sizes and shapes of talent and stuff like that and be able to tell these stories and have it well received by the wrestling community and fans.

Starting point is 00:15:16 You know, that was something where I was just like, man, I'm getting somewhere with this. You know what I mean? I'm getting more confident in this and confidence is everything with wrestling. as it is probably with your career and stuff like that. Like if you have people that'll fake it until they make it and you can do that, and it'll only get to a certain point. But like when you have that real confidence and belief in yourself and like know what you're capable of,

Starting point is 00:15:36 I think that's where you really get comfortable. And then you can really show what you can do. And I fell into that during the world title ring, tore my tricep. All ended terribly, obviously. But yeah, when I came back, it was probably the two matches with Will where like, I'm looking at Will like this guy's the most over wrestler, not signed to a major company like AEW or WW right now known around the world. And we went out there and, you know, instant chemistry, may magic happen, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:02 highest rated match in TNA history for the second one and all this stuff that was well received. And that's where I'm just like, you know, if he, if he's capable of doing this stuff, I'm certainly capable of doing this stuff too, you know, maybe not at the same level or whatever. But, you know, that's where I'm just like, this is where I need to start thinking about free agency and looking elsewhere and maybe seeing what else I can do. Did you feel like there was a time where you were, I don't know, I feel like you were like the best kept secret in wrestling for so long. And then something happened 2021-ish, maybe, where you just broke out and people were like, where's this guy been. It's like, well, he's been around for a long time.

Starting point is 00:16:39 I think it was the Exhibition run, mainly the Iron Man match with TjP. That's the one I kind of credit with it. And I knew that going into it because I remember I was approached by, I think it was R.D. Evans. I'm a creative member of TNA at the time. And he said, we're thinking about doing an Iron Man with you. And I was like, with who? Like, that's the first question. Because I'm like, I'm in there for an hour with somebody.

Starting point is 00:16:59 I want to make sure, like, this is going to be something good. And it's somebody I have chemistry with him. Like, TJP, I'm like, please, let's make this happen. You know what I mean? Because this is like, it's like the golden ticket. You know what I mean? Like, you're giving me an hour of air time on a wrestling program, which that, how often does that happen?

Starting point is 00:17:16 Yeah. HBK, seen it, had it. You know, I think Kurt Brock did it on television. Other than that, there hasn't been a ton of hour-long matches. AEW's done a couple as well. But, like, I just saw this as a golden opportunity to show what I'm capable of. Like, not many people can go out there and wrestle for an hour and, you know, really captivate the audience. And to do it with no crowd as well was just like another thing on top of it that just compounded it.

Starting point is 00:17:41 And I'm very proud of that match. And I know that that's like, whether was the springboard for my name in the wrestling community being like not the best kept secret, it was definitely the springboard for management. and TNA to be like, we can trust this guy with more stuff. And that's where the opportunities came. I feel like people sleep on that match. Maybe because there was no crowd there? No crowd. Weird, you know, piped in crowd noise here and there.

Starting point is 00:18:06 A weird era of wrestling. I mean, certainly weird. I always said, like, it worked to my benefit because it seemed like wrestling was under a microscope during that time. Like, you didn't have the crowd to distract from things that were happening in the ring. And one thing that I've hammered home the entire time of my career is I really want to be skilled at the fundamentals. From the punch, like you mentioned, to every hold you put on, the way I move, I want to make it look as legitimate possible as all times. And I feel like the crowd being sucked out of that, that kind of put the microscope on the in ring wrestling even more.

Starting point is 00:18:38 So that's like a reason why I stood out. So although I hated it, I'm very thankful for it because I think that helped. When you're a tag team with Ethan Page on the Indies for so long, then you get signed into, impact wrestling at the time. You're the north. And then you guys have the epic run that you have there. How do you break out from being just a tag team guy? It was tough, man. He kind of like, we taped our last tapings in I think November. And then he was off. And Hard to Kill aired with the pre, they pre-taped the whole, I think it was the karate man thing that happened with him. And that was my first, that would be my first show that Hard to Kill broadcast. And I was not booked. I wasn't

Starting point is 00:19:20 involved in anything. And I remember texting RD and Scott. And I was just like, hey, can I have a pre-show match on the YouTube show? And they were just like, ah, you know, I don't know. I'm just like, in my head, I was like, more people are watching this free YouTube match leading into Hard to Kill than might watch Hard to Kill at the time. So I was just like, please, anything. And they're like, well, you probably won't go over. I'm like, I don't care. Just please put me in a singles match. Let me show what I can do, me just asking for an opportunity. And they granted it to me. And I went out there with Ryan Myers. We had a great match.

Starting point is 00:19:50 He beat me with the roster cut, I think is what he calls the close line, you know. But I came to the back afterwards and then I remember I broke my heel in that match. And like I was just iced out on the floor and I had to wrestle the next day. And they were like, we don't know where we're going to go with you. What do you think? And RD asked me this. And I was just like, just book me in matches. Give me, you know, 10 to 15 minutes per match with whoever.

Starting point is 00:20:15 I don't care. and eventually, like, not a healer baby face, I'll just get over as time goes on based on my wrestling. He's like, what makes you so confident in this? I was just like, I started an independent. That's what happens. And within three to six months, I'm their champion. Like it just, it has happened dozens of times over the past 10 years.

Starting point is 00:20:32 I think it can apply here as well. He was like, okay. So they booked me in matches and like, it was like three, four months. I won the Exhibition Championship, right? So whether it was, you know, building my name and getting over, because it was COVID, so you don't really know if you're over. I think it was more that I was getting over with the office, showing that I was dependable and consistent with these matches I could have.

Starting point is 00:20:52 You are the shortest reigning champion and also the longest winning champion. So that's a true redemption story right there. Two-time champion. The first one was for three minutes. Is that right? If that, yeah. So how does it feel when they're telling you you're going to trade in the X Division Championship option C, right?

Starting point is 00:21:15 Yep. For a World Heavyweight Championship shot, you're going to win. You're not going to hold it for very long. How do you feel in that moment? I remember the phone conversation, and as I was speaking, I was like, oh, this all sounds great. Yeah, no problem, cool, all this stuff. And you hang up the phone, you go, part of me was like,

Starting point is 00:21:33 damn, man, I really wish, like, it wasn't like this because, like, I think I can do like some really good stuff. But, like, I didn't see the forest from the trees or anything. Well, you're also thinking, like, what if this is it? What if this is the only title run I ever get? Exactly. That's what it is. But on the flip side, it was like, you're going to main event against Christian at Boundfrew Lory.

Starting point is 00:21:53 And a year ago, you were in like a four-way tag match here. You know what I mean? Like this in a year span, you've gone from here to the main event against, you know, an AEW, former WWE star, like TNA legend as well in Christian for the world championship. Like to be the TNA wrestler that brings it back to this company. So I was just like, absolutely. Like this is opportunity again knocking at my door. So it was just like, that's cool. But I would be lying if I said there wasn't a small part of me.

Starting point is 00:22:21 I was just like, man, it'd be cool if you didn't do this Moose thing. And I could just, you know, show what I can do. Because you never know if that's going to come back to where like I didn't know that I was going to go on to beat Moose at Rebellion six or seven months later. I'm sure management kind of had an idea to see how it would get over. But like anything can happen to wrestling. I could have gotten hurt. You know, Moose could have gotten hurt. And then that match would never have happened or, you know, anything could have happened.

Starting point is 00:22:42 that didn't make a transpire, but luckily, you know, everything does happen for a reason. And we got there eventually. It made fans hate Moose a lot. I remember the day, like, I got to my hotel room in Samstown and I checked Twitter. And, like, you know, people are like clips of the match and saying, you know, all these great things. And then they're just like hammering TNA for this terrible booking decision. We're back to the Vince Russo era, all this stuff. And I'm just like, I mean, this is kind of nice because I guess they want to me to be.

Starting point is 00:23:12 champion. Well, I think it was this amazing moment with this beautiful arc. Yeah, Josh Alexander, like this pure wrestler, he's the guy. And then a few minutes later, what? Yeah, Christian hugs me, raises my hand, puts the belt of my waist, my son and my wife come in the ring, and then... A beautiful moment. The most dastardly thing that could happen happens.

Starting point is 00:23:32 And I'm very thankful it did, though, for the way it all played out. Was there any sort of guarantee that, like, all right, I know this sounds pretty bad right now, don't worry, we have a larger plan for you down the line. I don't think I was told that exactly, but it was kind of like, we're going to see where this goes. Because like, immediately, I think it was the next day. They were like, you get Suzuki the next day. And then it's going to be Jonah.

Starting point is 00:23:57 And then it's going to be like, they just laid out six months of me working with monsters to try to get me over. And I was just like, cool. And they never said really 100% we're getting back to Moose. But like, it was probably like two, three months into that. I think it was after the Jonah match at Hard to Kill. They were like, we're totally doing you and Moose, probably a rebellion. And for people who don't know, we're talking about Bronson Reed.

Starting point is 00:24:18 Yes. Yes. I took three tsunamis and three centons and spit up blood, just like you've seen Seth Rawlings doing raw recently. The official numbers, 335 days. They held the championship for it. Is that the number we're going with? That's the number that everybody goes with on Twitter. I think it's actually like 347 or something because like the show didn't.

Starting point is 00:24:41 until 12 days after it was taped, but I gave it up that, you know, the 335th day of actually. I mean, regardless, you're the longest reigning TNA world champion of all time. Yep. Which is crazy when we run down the lineage of everybody who's ever held that championship.

Starting point is 00:24:58 Yeah, I have a shirt made that says longest reigning champion that I sell at Indies and it's got like sting and it's crossed out. It's got Kurt Engel and it's crossed out. Samojo and it's crossed out and it's just Josh Alexander. I'm like, and I read it to this day and I'm like, Jesus. Like I said, never thought any of this was possible. I mean, AJ Styles and like Bobby Rood and bully Ray and the list goes on and on and on. It's completely insane to me, especially as somebody who ordered the very first Wednesday night pay-per-view,

Starting point is 00:25:28 watched them religiously with my friends and stuff like that and came up as a true like TNA fan. Who were your TNA people during those early years of TNA? Day one, AJ Styles low-key and Abyss were kind of like the guy. I was like, I was totally in for something new in pro wrestling, especially at that time when there was one show in town. And, you know, as it progressed and went on, I was just like, man, Christian, Kurt Angle, like, the Bobby Roads. Like, all this stuff is just getting wilder and wilder. And we're adding names like the machine guns were in there. Sanjay Dutt was a guy really, like, enjoyed watching.

Starting point is 00:26:02 I love malice in the early days, too. I thought malice was awesome. You know what I mean? But it was just like all this excitement of somebody new in wrestling. Like I discovered Samoa Joe through TNA and then I went back and bought all the Ring of Honor DVDs at my local HMV like we used to do back in the day

Starting point is 00:26:18 and like studied up on Samoa Joe, you know what I mean? So it just broadened my horizons on like pro wrestling in general because TNA was this place that took people I'd never heard of or wouldn't have in the WBE bubble, right? It also provided just a different style of wrestling. I was such a huge TNA fan like 05 to 0809 like just watching like there was things

Starting point is 00:26:40 AJ Styles did that I just didn't think were possible yeah I can say the exact same thing man you talk about the Unbreakable Threeway all the time it's kind of like the standard barrier for matches yes and for a long time sorry to interrupt it was the only five star Dave Meltzer TNA match and in my opinion as a fan should still be the only five star

Starting point is 00:27:01 because I don't think anything's ever going to top that for me like as a fan watching like I'll stop it your match with Will was incredible Yeah, but like, sure. But like, you got to think of like my eyes watching it as a fan are going to judge this differently, right? Like I watched Mike Bailey and Vikengo at BFG and I was like, that's one of the greatest matches I've ever seen in my life. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:27:20 I'll never watch my own thing. Be like, like, that was great. I'll be like, why did my foot move like that when I did this? Or why did I grab him like this? You know what I mean? Like, I'm just tearing it apart the whole time. But like you talk about that match and just the stuff they did in that match. Like it changed my perspective of what was possible in wrestling.

Starting point is 00:27:36 like AJ Stiles doing the, I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but he just like the crazy corkscrew. Spiral tab. Yeah, the spiral tap onto the pin where you absolutely like as a wrestling now. To break up the pin, yeah. Absolutely destroy Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels. Like there's no way like me as a wrestler now, be like, yeah, they're dead. They're definitely like, it's not good.

Starting point is 00:27:57 The springboard shooting star, like all this stuff. And like I talk about this stuff. And then you see interviews and like Will Osprey talks about this stuff. That match has inspired so many people. along the way. And it's because AJ style is literally 10 to 10 at every aspect of wrestling, whether it be high flying, striking,

Starting point is 00:28:14 technical style, everything. Like, probably the most complete wrestler across the board since Eddie Guerrero or Kurt Angle, in my opinion. But do you think now about the kids who are watching like your 5 and a half star match with Will Osprey and going, I can be a wrestler now because of that match?

Starting point is 00:28:30 I mean, yeah. So, yeah. Like, I have to step back and really kind of look at it from like an objective view for that. But like when I do, I'm just like, man, I really hope something I'm doing along the way is going to inspire somebody just like, you know, Samoa Joe and AJ Styles inspired me when I was 15 and didn't think this was possible. Like maybe, because for me it was like, I'm watching Randy Orton and Batista on one show being

Starting point is 00:28:52 like, no way I can do this guys. And then I see Loki come out. He's like 170 pounds. But you do not for a second think that he can't go in there and kick somebody's ass. You know what I mean? Just the way he like, he did everything he did. And like the same thing goes for like the AJ styles and the entire X division. Like you didn't question anything because they were so athletic and so good and so crisp.

Starting point is 00:29:14 And that's what made me think this was possible for me. Really Samoa Joe because I was a really big kid. Like I was a 300 pound kid in high schools. Really? Yeah. And so like I saw Samoa Joe and I'm just like, this isn't a cookie cutter wrestler here. But like he's a badass and he can go. Especially like when his first match with Kurt Angle and stuff like that,

Starting point is 00:29:31 you're seeing like the juxtaposition of their size and their present. and stuff like that. And I never questioned it. And I was just like, maybe, maybe this is something I can pursue. And I never thought of a career. But I was just like, I can go try it for sure. You were 300 pounds until when? Oh, senior year of high school. So that's grade 12 up in Canada. Yeah. And did you make a change at that point? Or? I asked my mom, it was Christmas time. And I knew prom was coming up, obviously, in like five months. And I asked my mom to get like a dietitian for me. Because I knew I had no knowledge. her ability to get anything done. So she did that for my Christmas gift. And I went down to like 250 for prom. But like this entire time I want to say like I wasn't like a football player 300 or 250. Like I couldn't do a pushup.

Starting point is 00:30:20 Like there wasn't an ounce of muscle on me. What was the biggest change you made that dropped those 50 pounds? It was just understanding portion control and spacing out meals. So like I would probably eat the same amount. But before I was eating it in two meals a day where now I was eating. getting six times a day and splitting it all up. And just doing that, like, boosted my metabolism enough to lose weight. And then when I moved to weight university at Brock,

Starting point is 00:30:44 I found out wrestling existed because I had something more than dial-up internet for the first time of my life. And I found a wrestling school. And when I started there, that's when, you know, the gym membership happens and all this other stuff to try to pursue this. But it never really got serious until, I don't know, maybe 2008, 2009. That's what I really dove into it. Is there still a small part of you?

Starting point is 00:31:05 that thinks of yourself as a 300-pound kid? There's a large part of me that feels like that. Like, that's all I see in the mirror to this day. Like, I'll tell my wife, like, I'll be dressed a certain way and I'll be like, I can't wear this. She'd be like, why? I'm like, you can see this and this. And she's like, there's nothing there.

Starting point is 00:31:20 Like, you have veins sticking out of that. Like, what are you talking about? But like, it's body dysmorphia. It's a real thing. Like, I can't explain it to somebody that doesn't have it or hasn't experienced it. But like, I just look at myself and think that I look like the worst possible version of myself at all times.

Starting point is 00:31:34 Which is funny because juxtaposed to that, you walk around in your underwear for a living. Yeah. And that's a tough thing to do. But like that's the, it's a weird like, maybe it's like a weird psychological thing where like I separate who like this Josh is from the Josh and the single with the head gear. Like I put that head gear on and all of a sudden I'm a super human. And that's where I feel like I'm indestructible. That's where I feel like all that stuff's possible. And I don't think the same way or see myself the same one.

Starting point is 00:32:00 What's the approach that you have to putting a match together? So I always want the perspective and opinion of my opponent first. So like some people will show up and be like, I have this, this, this, this, this, this and this. But that's without speaking to the opponent. And I've always like idolized guys like Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero and all these guys where I felt like they were kind of chameleons where like if Eddie Guerrero was in there with a luch guy, you'd see more Lucha style. If he was in there with a brawler, he could go with a brawler like him and JBL or anything like that. or if he was in there with a more technical guy, like he'd have crazy matches with a Kurt Angle

Starting point is 00:32:37 or they're not leaving the mat. They're just going around, you know what I mean? And that was the stuff that I really enjoyed. So I've always tried to be that kind of way. So depending on the match and who my opponent is, you're going to get a kind of different way of putting it together every single time. But the approach that you have,

Starting point is 00:32:52 it just feels, for lack of a better word, very authentic. Like, it feels like you, I mean, you bring it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:32:59 Well, I'll always have the intensity cramped up 10 out of 10. but like it's always the one thing I always try to do is to have things make as most sense as possible in a kind of a nonsense business. So like, like I will say like I want to do this this way because, you know, it doesn't make sense the other way. It doesn't look real. And they'd be like, well, is an Irish whip look real? I'm like, no, absolutely not. But like, come on guys. Please. Could we stop? You know what I mean? Like I always want like, like it goes back to the William Regal thing I mentioned where he said, you know, you got to sell tickets to the parents that are buying the tickets. It's like, I never want somebody to look at what I'm doing and be like, oh, that, that look phony.

Starting point is 00:33:35 That didn't make sense. You know what I mean? It's all about suspension of disbelief. So I really try to lean on making it as real as possible at all times. Prize Picks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active users. It's the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports. Because unlike other apps, on prize picks, it's just you against the numbers. All you do is pick more or less on two to six player stat projection.

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Starting point is 00:36:23 I mean, I'm probably the wrong person to ask in this one. Like, I always just chalk it up to consistency and dependability. Like, I had been told by somebody, you know, midway through that, they were just like, it doesn't matter who we put you in there with, you're always going to get the best out of them. And I was just like, that's a great compliment. You know what I mean? Like, and that's what I run with. Like, I always try to have my opponent's best match possible.

Starting point is 00:36:48 And I think that depending on my opponent, gives me the best match possible most of the time, right? I'm just trying to think because, like, I think Eddie Edwards, they had talked about him, winning the championship off me at either the special before or on TVs and taking it from me and me winning it back at Bound for Glory. I had heard that and I think it was in Nashville and I was just like, oh, that's weird. But okay, like it doesn't matter. Like, I'm not saying this to anybody. I'm just kind of saying it my own head. And then I remember Scott saying something. I go,

Starting point is 00:37:23 yeah, you guys want to give it to Eddie and then I'll win it back at BFG goes, no, that's not happening. And you just kind of shut it down like that. I'm just like, oh, okay. So this was like a discussion in the creative room that was kind of passed around and somebody liked it. And Scott was like, no, absolutely not. So I don't know if it was in his mind that like they were going to go longer beyond BFG into this longest running championship. Or if it was just something that kind of transpired. I think around the bully Ray match at Hard to Kill, they were like, he's itching close. Like he's like 40 days away from me the longest reigning champion.

Starting point is 00:37:53 And they kind of looked at it. And I think that's where they decided. There was like, Josh is going to take that mantle or whatever. But you never lost the title. No, I did not. You had to relinquish it. And it kills me every day, man. I wish I could have lost that title so bad.

Starting point is 00:38:07 How much longer do you think you would have had it? I think there was a good chance Steve Macklin was going to take it at Rebellion, which was like two weeks or three weeks after I tore my trice. You would have been so close to a year. Yeah. I think it would have ended up like three days short of a year. Wow. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:22 That moment when you're relinquishing it to Scott and your son, Jet goes and grabs it, Like, what an emotional moment. Yeah. My son is a fantastic actor. And, like, you would think it's completely, like, you know, just happen that way and stuff like that. But I remember we had to talk with him in the back where it's like, if you want to, when I go to hand the belt to Uncle Scott, you can come grab it. And he was just like, like, deer in headlights, like, no, this isn't going to happen. I'm just like, there's no way he's going to do this, guys.

Starting point is 00:38:56 And, like, I remember my wife was walking him. down holding them the entire time in high heels. What, like, talk about a Spartan woman, okay? Walking on ring padding with a 35-pound child in high heels. But, and then if you watch, I don't even help her in the ring with. Because I'm out of it, dude. Like, I'm in the ring. I'm depressed.

Starting point is 00:39:17 I'm like, I had surgery the morning before. Wow. And I flew straight to, from Orlando to Windsor the night before tapings. And I surprised my wife by coming back and, like, my arm all slinged up and stuff like that. But like I was like fresh at a surgery. I remember they were talking me about the promo and I was just like, like I didn't take any painkillers,

Starting point is 00:39:38 but like I don't think they'd worn off from surgery still because like I was all like pasty mouth and stuff and all this stuff. Like it was super strange. And I got in the ring and I was just like so emotional. And I remember like on the video clip, I walk in and behind me, she's trying to get like under the bottom rope while holding him in high heels balancing. And people called me out on Twitter for it.

Starting point is 00:39:55 They were just like, this man won't even help his wife and son in the brain. What a heel. One of the biggest regrets of my career, man, because it was like the one thing where you can point and be like, yeah, this guy is a dick. But yeah,

Starting point is 00:40:10 we got in and as the promo was going on, like, I go to give the belt and like, I remember when she got in the ring after that story, she looked at me, she's like, he's not going to do it. I go,

Starting point is 00:40:19 okay, cool. And when I went to do it, he just took off. Like, this is my moment. You know what I mean? And he took it and it all went great. I feel like I got so much more emotional

Starting point is 00:40:28 now that I'm a father. Yeah. When that happened, I'm like, oh, geez. Yeah. Anybody with kids completely understands. Yeah. And then anybody without kids is like the ones on Twitter. They're just like, ah, this is phony baloney, but you know what I mean? Come on. You guys don't have the same feelings as us, okay? You've had such a close relationship with Scott. And you talk about being given opportunities in TNA.

Starting point is 00:40:52 And he was one of the guys who gave you a lot of those opportunities. Does him leaving TNA play a factor in you wanting to be a free? agent? Somewhat. Like when I first found out, he was like, oh, I, you know, I, I, I teared up. I'm not going to lie. Like, I was just like, I was thinking about these last six or five years at the time I had in TNA. And everything along the way from like when I started, you know, having zero relationship

Starting point is 00:41:16 with him. Other than he was the guy that got me a visa and was giving me this opportunity to this point where we developed this relationship of trust and he coached me along and gave me so much help and put me with the right people to make sure that I was leveling up like my skills along the way from storytelling and promos to in ring wrestling and stuff like that. Just putting me with these certain people that he didn't have to, but he knew it would benefit me. And then leaving, like, you gotta think, like, we were ride or die for this guy. Like, the entire locker room was, like he, especially with the rebranding of TNA thing happening,

Starting point is 00:41:52 you know, at the end of BFG and then the debut of TNA, we're like riding, high. We just sold out the palms. These shows were insane. Yeah. And then it felt like the rug was just pulled out from under you, right? So it's like, how do you react to that? How do you feel about that? And like the relationship we built, I was just like, man, I'm losing a mentor. And that sucks. But it's also the wrestling business. So like, I can't say like it's 100% the reason why I'm thinking about free agency. I would have thought of free agency regardless. And I kind of, you know, Scott, when we negotiated my three-year deal that I signed, you know, to keep me there up until this February, he told me, he was just like, you're either going to be worth so much I can't keep you at the end of this or I'm going to make sure you get paid to stay here. But you're going to be worth much more because I know what you're capable of.

Starting point is 00:42:41 And that was kind of like the thing we sat on when I signed that deal. It just, it's so crazy, bizarre, ridiculous to think that he was the guy who was championing TNA. then TNA we're effing back, right? That whole very passionate promo, hard to kill is incredible. And then it's like a month later. No, it's like two weeks later. Two weeks later.

Starting point is 00:43:03 Two weeks later, he's gone. Yeah. And just from the outside looking in, it doesn't add up. Yeah. And like that's a business conversation that is well over my pay grade. And I don't understand the inner workings of it

Starting point is 00:43:16 from a wrestling perspective from like, you know, being the guy that it has to be accountable for this roster and this production team and all this stuff, the ins and outs. I mean, I saw the guy worked 20 hour days every day for years. And he has another job on top of that. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:33 And like, I don't know how he does it. Like, I'm, dude, I'm dead. From Monday to Thursday before I leave for shows, I am a dead body at home. My children take up all my time and energy outside of the workhouse I have to do every day and I'm just spent doing that. So I couldn't imagine.

Starting point is 00:43:49 But like, it's wrestling. management, business, all this stuff. Bosses change. They come and go. I think, like, you can't say that, like, TNA hasn't done great things this year since the changeover. You know, I was skeptical when it first happened. I had a meeting with them to talk about, you know, maybe not picking up my option for the year because I was just kind of uncomfortable not knowing, you know, these new people that were going to be my boss and, like, what their ideas were. But they picked up the option and, like, you're talking about, like, record houses this year.

Starting point is 00:44:18 Yeah. Businesses up. More people tuning in. you got the ascension of Joe Hendry coming in. Hardy boys are back, like tearing it up. Like, you can't say they haven't done great stuff. Like Ariel Anthony, Gail, Tommy, this entire, you know, new team that's kind of taken over since Scott left.

Starting point is 00:44:32 They've done great too. One of the great things about Scott is he was able to wear a lot of hats. And like, he told me this great story of like when they needed to kill time, he would just go out there and cut a promo. And after your match with Osprey, he was told like, we got like four minutes to kill. Go out there. Yeah. So what are you doing? So the match is over. You know, you guys are doing your thing after the match. And out of nowhere, here comes Scott down the ramp. What are you thinking what is what's going on here? No, I absolutely knew what was going on. As we're going home in the match, like the final like four to five minutes in my head, I'm going, we're going early. 100% we're going early. And I'm trying to think of a way to communicate it to Will to like do something else so we can buy time and fill that time. And then we get so deep and the crowd's so hot.

Starting point is 00:45:21 that like doing anything ad-lived would just sacrifice everything we've been building to. So I was just like, whatever, I'll cut a promo afterwards. It'll be fine. And like in my head, I'm just like, I'll cut a promo, I'll put over Will. I'll put over TNA, like all this stuff. Basically, kind of the gist of what Scott did. But like the, we go home, we're sitting there. I'm about to like get up and ask for the microphone, Scott's music hits.

Starting point is 00:45:45 He comes out and I go, this guy is stealing my thunder right now. Like in my head, because I knew it was happening, but I'm so glad he did because like, like, I, I'm wearing low sleeves, but I have goosebumps right now. I was just thinking about it, man. That guy got in the ring and off the cuff cut this insanely passionate promo that had me, like, welling up and goosebumps in the ring for how passionate he was about TNA being back and just like the amount of like hype that was around these shows and how happy he was that we've gotten back to this point where T. Because like, he wanted TNA back for years. And it was just like an uphill battle of being like, people are going to think tits and ass or something or you know what I mean. Like it's a dead brand. And you're like, and I don't think everybody in the business side understood like when I was crossing the border weekly to fly out to a show, I'd be like, oh yeah, for who? And I'll be like, impact wrestling. And I'd be like, have you ever heard of TNA? And they go, oh, yeah, yeah. Like the brand recognition alone just based off the border guards was like enough for me to be like, let's bring TNA back. There were a lot of fans that didn't call it TIA or didn't call it impact. It was still TNA for all those years to them.

Starting point is 00:46:52 Oh, I had to catch myself doing media for years being like, because like I would talk about the stuff I was a fan of and I'd say TNA, but then I'm only a part of impact. So I don't know if it's the same thing. So yeah. That match, by the way, it was on free TV. And it's available now on YouTube if anyone wants to go watch this. If you haven't seen it yet, that promo that Scott Cut is included in that on YouTube.

Starting point is 00:47:13 But like for that match to be. available for free. You guys are too good to us. Yeah, and it's a blessing for me too because that stuff's out there. It lives forever on YouTube and stuff like that. And like I think it's got like 700,000 views on YouTube. So like that's

Starting point is 00:47:30 700,000 people that may not have tuned in otherwise to see it, right? I get to see what I'm capable of, what Will's capable of if he didn't already know because he's the guy. How is everybody able to make magic with Will? It's a testament to him. And it's the same

Starting point is 00:47:45 thing to like a lesser extent like with stuff I've been able to do because people have like been like that was that guy's best match I've ever seen blah blah blah and it's just like you have to cater to people's strengths and like when me and will are putting the match together we're on the same wavelength with a lot of stuff and like the realism thing all this other stuff and just his formula for how he thinks of wrestling it's so like is neurotic the proper word like he's so like just devil in the details on all this little stuff. but it makes a difference. And it helps when you have this body of work that has gotten you over with the fans.

Starting point is 00:48:21 So they're reacting the way they are because at the end of the day, we are out there for the fans. The more loud and into the match the fans are, the better our matches. You could have the best wrestling match in the world. If nobody's making a peep, it ain't that good. Like that's, to me, that's the measuring stick for wrestling. That tiger driver that Will Ospre gave you to through the table, it's tough to watch.

Starting point is 00:48:41 It was terrifying, to be honest. but honestly, Will, like, because like, I don't care. Like, I'll take the bump and I'll be like, this will hurt, but we'll get over it. Will is one of the strongest pound for pound wrestlers I've ever been in the ring with. He's deceptively strong. It's pretty insane. So there was no issues with me getting up for that or anything. But if you had previously broke your neck, are you not scared about moves like that?

Starting point is 00:49:05 Oh, yeah, it did break my neck, didn't I? Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. No. Yeah. So, like, when I came back from a neck injury in 20, 16, 16, 15. So I'm like that.

Starting point is 00:49:17 COVID ruined my like ability to remember years and time. Like it just ruined it. But yeah, when I came back for the first few months, I was wrestling and I was being very careful, trying to avoid anything where like I landed high on my neck or anything. I didn't want to get hurt again, obviously. And I ended up hurting like my shoulder. And then I hurt my elbow.

Starting point is 00:49:36 And then I hurt something else, all because I was trying to work around landing on my head. And then I finally just said, you know what, forget it. I'm going to wrestle the same way I used to. and I'm just going to chalk this up to being just like a freak accident that happened, which it was. And I haven't looked back and I've been fine ever since.

Starting point is 00:49:51 For people they don't know, how did it happen? Ring of Honor. It was here, wasn't it? No. PWG. That was the second time. Oh, okay. First time was in Detroit.

Starting point is 00:50:05 We did a Ring of Honor show. We opened the show. It was the Monster Mafia at the time, also known as the North, against Red Dragon. and for whatever reason that night, it was like lightning struck. I was the most overperson in that building that night. That was the night Kevin Steen was having his final Ring of Bonner match. He wrestled Steve Carino in the main event.

Starting point is 00:50:22 And during the main event, throughout the entire show, they were chanting, we want headgear. And like, I'm sitting in the back being like, I'm not signed here. I'm not part of the roster.

Starting point is 00:50:30 Oh my God. I hope they don't hate me. I don't know if heat, blah, blah. And like, Adam Cole is coming up to me. I'm like, bro, what did you do out there? I'm like, I don't know. And I'd never put it together that Rick Steiner's from Michigan. I'm wearing headgear in Michigan.

Starting point is 00:50:40 maybe that's what it was. Or maybe they just really liked my like Northern Light Suplex that night or something. That's probably it. But yeah, I took Red Dragon's Finisher. It was a tornado DDD into the Brain Buster kick thing. And on the DDT, it just crunched my neck a weird way. Did you know? No.

Starting point is 00:50:58 I knew I cracked my neck and I was like, oh, there's not a lot of pain. And it was like three days later, I moved a certain way. And all of a sudden it was just like the hot coffee sensation and atrophy within a week. And of course, it took me 12 weeks to get an MRI, took me another four to get surgery, and I didn't tell anybody. And you wrestled through it? I wrestled until the surgery.

Starting point is 00:51:19 Oh, my gosh. And because Ring of Honor was talking about signing us at the time. And you got to think we're in a tag team as well. Like, if I stop, there goes Ethan's opportunities as well. So I was just like, I can't do this to him again, because I already did it a year before when I hurt my back. And there was like a lot of guilt on my end there for like having them, because that's when he did the Ethan Gabriel.

Starting point is 00:51:38 Bowens thing. But anyway, I just didn't tell anybody. We came back and we got PDBG and we're like, this is the next step. I'm like, when we debuted at PDBG, I think it was four months post-neck surgery. So I'm like, I'm through it. I'm good. I feel good. And then I took a power bomb meteor, like the knee drop thing while I'm up in a power bomb.

Starting point is 00:51:58 And I landed right on the back of my head. And everybody knew instantly. And I was like, no, I'm fine, guys. I'm fine. I flew home two days later again, hot coffee. Oh, on the other arm. Yeah, the first time was C5C6, the second time was C4C5. And so I'm like, they're like, you can't wrestle anymore, obviously, blah, blah.

Starting point is 00:52:17 So I did a whole retirement thing. I did a retirement show in Hamilton for Alpha One, Ethan's promotion. And then- You can't wrestle anymore, but go have a retirement match. I didn't tell them this part, but like for my own personal fulfillment, I wanted to like close out the way wanted to against two of my best friends that I came up with since the very start in wrestling. They were called the Jim Rats.

Starting point is 00:52:35 Alessandro Del Bruno and Scottie O'Shea. And we had this tag. The hacker? The hacker, yes, sir. I know NSPW is your... Early days. There you go. He would hit people with a keyboard.

Starting point is 00:52:47 Yeah, yeah. I'd take it many of those. But I had my final match with them and I was like, okay, riding off into the sunset, you know, blah, blah. And I came at a surgery and they were like, oh, we didn't have to fuse your other level. It was just like debris and stuff from the first surgery that you kind of pushed around. It was in your spinal column. So we cleaned it up.

Starting point is 00:53:05 But like do nine months of rehab and then you can wrestle again. You wrote an article right before going into surgery right before your last match. Yeah. And it was titled, why I'm walking away from wrestling. How difficult was that? Because you talk a lot in that article about like, you know, you've wrestled all across North America, but you never got the chance to sign that contract. Like you felt like you still had more to prove.

Starting point is 00:53:28 Yeah. I tried to play it off like it wasn't that tough of a decision to make that I was completely fulfilled with everything because that's kind of the mindset you have to put yourself in when this might be your reality for the rest of your life, right? Like I didn't want to have regrets. The problem being when I came into surgery and he told me I could still wrestle, that's when all the regrets flooded in. And I was just like, you know what? I didn't work hard enough. I got by on my God-given ability and my aptitude for pro wrestling. But like I wasn't, I wasn't dieting. I wasn't working out the best I could. I wasn't like putting the time into the

Starting point is 00:53:59 other things that would make me, you know, an elite level wrestling. to the point where like I could fit in with like the people I was working with. Like I would work with the Roderick Strongs of the world and these people and everybody would know just by the eye test that they're the better wrestler. They just look like a more complete product. And like I was fine being a big fish in a small pond. And when I came back from my next surgery after writing that article and stuff like that, that's when all the regrets seeped in.

Starting point is 00:54:25 I was just like, I'm not going to have any regrets this time. Do you feel like you have regrets now? No, no regrets. Like everything now is like. It's like a pleasant surprise that I'm able to do all this stuff. I'm just happy to be able to wrestle still. And I mean, I'm more than happy to be able to do it at the level I'm doing it at. Like, that's all just roses for me.

Starting point is 00:54:45 But yeah, I can't think of any single regret I'd have now because it's all a bonus. I want to read you this line that you wrote from that article. I'd found something to mold me as an individual to make me feel like I had some value. Wrestling taught me that life was even worth living. Sadly, something I question on a few occasions in my life. Yeah. Is that how you felt at that time? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:14 So I had like a real bad childhood with both my parents struggle with addiction, two different homes. And they didn't like wrestling. Wrestling was kind of my safe space that I found. I never really made friends. I switched schools. I talked to my wife with this the other day. I switched schools six or seven times between grade five and grade nine. It's so hard being the new kid, too.

Starting point is 00:55:35 Yeah, but you're talking six times. Wow. Like, you're talking six months spans in school, you know what I mean, trying to make friends. And I wasn't very good at that anyway, to begin with, as, like, the fat kid wearing the DX shirt. You know what I mean? But, like, luckily, by the time it all settled in grade nine,

Starting point is 00:55:52 I found wrestling wore that t-shirt to school, and I found another guy wearing a t-shirt. I was like, hey, what's your name? And then all of a sudden we're best friends. And we have this group. And, like, like, everybody else in the school might think we're losers, But us five, we're a group. And that's my community.

Starting point is 00:56:07 And then when I left there for university, I discovered wrestling school. And when I went to wrestling school in the Ontario Indy scene, I discovered a community. Like-minded individuals, this is a safe space for us to, like, you know, develop relationships and share this common bond. And that's kind of been what wrestling's been the entire time. And I was lucky enough to find my trainer, Johnny Devine, and, you know, a barbaric man by wrestling standards for wrestling training and stuff like that. because he came up in the heart dungeon as like a five foot six dude. So he was getting stretched and beat up every day. So when he trained people, like that's kind of what he did.

Starting point is 00:56:42 But it made me who I was and it made me really respect wrestling. And it made me kind of become a man because when I was 18 and I went to an university and I started wrestling, I didn't have any idea of what the value of a dollar was or any work ethic really. Because like I said, coming up in like a terrible household, I have no motivation to better myself or do anything. I'm just trying to escape by and survive most of the time, going to see my dad on weekends and survive that and stuff like that. So wrestling was the one safe place I've always had from when I was like 14 or 15 on.

Starting point is 00:57:14 And when I retired, like, man, saying that, like I haven't read that since I wrote it and posted it. But like I'm just like now having kids watching them trying to maneuver. Like my one son's in grade five, trying to maneuver social situations and stuff like that. And there's struggles at times. Yeah. He has long hair.

Starting point is 00:57:32 People try to make fun of him and ask him, you know, if he's a girl and stuff. And he comes home upset sometimes. But like, he's developed this thick skin now where he's like, I don't care. I like my hair. I'm like, yeah, you can look and act however you want. Yeah. Whatever makes you happy. Like for me, like, I need to find other people in wrestling.

Starting point is 00:57:48 And that's something that's like just like follow me along. And just to hear me write it like that. That's obviously like a cathartic thing that I wrote out that entire piece, right? Yeah. I have to go back and read it now that you wrote that because. You read that out because, yeah, I forgot a lot of it. But it's all true. Where's your life at if you don't find wrestling?

Starting point is 00:58:11 I don't know. I don't think I'd be anywhere near where I'm at right now. Like, as a 37-year-old man that owns a house and has two kids that, you know, make sure that his kids are happy, safe and all the stuff at all times. I wouldn't have fallen into drinking or addiction because I've always just learned from my mistakes of my parents and family members that fell into that along the way. Like, I have two stepbrothers. We're now both dead from drugs and alcohol. Wow.

Starting point is 00:58:37 You know what I mean? And they went that direction. I find that people either gravitate to going the same way or they go the opposite. They run away from it. I was luckily that I ran away from it. But without wrestling, I wouldn't have had that work ethic that made me, you know, kind of be able to survive over these past like 19 years since I was 18. Wrestling is the thing that's driving you and pushing you and it's at the center of your life for your whole life.

Starting point is 00:59:01 What did that moment mean when Scott came out to the ring with a conjure? I mean, it's validation for me 100%. But on the other end, it's like me showing everybody that ever said I couldn't do it. Like, it's kind of sticking it to them. And that's the thing that really like made me proud of that moment. Because like same thing. My stepfather and an aunt of mine, there's, I found this thing like a few months ago and sent it to my uncle.

Starting point is 00:59:32 But they were going back and forth on Facebook talking about how they saw a poster of me in my old town for a wrestling show. And they were ripping me apart for being like 30 and like, oh my God, look at that tan. He looks so unhealthy. Like they obviously edited the poster wrong and like they washed me out or whatever. But like, so it didn't look great. But like they were just ripping me apart for being this guy that just would rather play on weekends and do this wrestling thing than actually be serious and get a job. What was the job you had before wrestling?

Starting point is 01:00:00 I was in construction. I was making, you know, 60K a year working 50, 60 hours a week. but like that's what I had to do to survive. And like I always had this work ethic to provide for my wrestling habit. You know, and then later on to provide for my family. But yeah, it was just this weird thing where like I really, when I got that contract, I thought about that being like all these people that said I couldn't. Here it is.

Starting point is 01:00:26 Yeah. And to my wife and stuff like that that like when we got together, I had been retired. Like I didn't, I returned to wrestling after. we had our dates and stuff like that and gotten together. And she never signed up to be with a wrestler. She's in the business, luckily. She understands my passion for it. She understands all this stuff.

Starting point is 01:00:46 But she had this talk with me where she's like, I didn't think I was getting into this. Because like, I thought you were done. I thought I was done, all this stuff. And I was just like, okay, so is this like a deal breaker? And she was like, no, absolutely not. I'm super happy about it. It's just it took me a minute to be like, okay, this is what I'm into now. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:01:03 And she's really happy it happened, obviously. Yeah. I don't know what life looks like without wrestling. It's just the only way I can say it. Was there a difficult shift when you thought that wrestling was over for you? Because that's your identity, right? You go from being wrestling fan to being wrestling trainee to then being independent wrestler. Yep. And then all of a sudden it's taken away from you. It has to be an identity shift of like, who am I now? My son was born like eight months before I ended up retiring from wrestling and I just with an absent father growing up and stuff like that, I just really wanted to be a dad

Starting point is 01:01:47 and make sure I was always there for my kids and made sure that they felt safe and happy at all time. So I was like retiring thing that identity crisis, I'd already shifted into being dad. Like before you call me a wrestler or anything, I want to be dad. And now I'm dad, husband, then wrestler. These are the hierarchy of the importance in my life that they need to concentrate on because I grew up watching people make mistakes on those first two, husband and father. And I always want to make sure that my kids don't have that same life I had. Are you looking at these next few months between now and February 15th that's just like a proving ground?

Starting point is 01:02:23 Like you have an incredible resume. But it's like now you've got a chance on TV to show your worth. Like, you know, if we're going to subscribe to the idea of you're only as good as your last match, you've got the ability to have a few of those. Yeah, for sure. Like, I mean, the debut of MLP, the second night, I went main event with Takesha. I certainly looked like, looked at that as a job interview for AW. And this is Scott DeMore's new company.

Starting point is 01:02:51 Yeah, Scott DeMore's new company. Yeah, first shows were in Windsor. You can get them on Triller. I think it's called now. Sorry, it's changed names a couple of times. Yeah, Triller. Triller, yeah. You know, I started out. I opened the very first show for him, you know, in the Canadian versus the world six-man tag, Allah kind of hearken back to flying Elvis's against AJ,

Starting point is 01:03:12 Loki and Jerry Lynn. That was kind of the booking idea, even though it probably wasn't that good as that match because I put that match up on a pedestal too as a TNA fan. And then I bookended it by having a main event with Sakesha. And we went like 32 minutes or something like that. And it was just like, I looked at that as a job interview for AW. I was just like, if anybody from that company is watching this, this is one of the best wrestlers you have in your company, I want to show that I can make magic with this guy. And that's the same thing for everything I'm doing in TNA.

Starting point is 01:03:40 I wrestled Joe Hendry in September. And I was just like, this guy's on an XT right now. I'm sure somebody's going to be paying attention to it. I'm going to make sure that they know that, like, I could have one of the best Joe Hendry matches and stuff like that. You know what I mean? So like everything, I look at every match I have as a job interview to a certain extent. Like this is all building upon itself and like even smaller stuff like the Indies.

Starting point is 01:04:02 I'm wrestling on an independent in a week called Northern Crown in Toronto. It's the only booking I'm going to have in Toronto before I become a free agent. It's the last one. And Gabe Spolski is going to be there for his WID program thing, just watching local talent Canada. And like I want to have a really good match with the Canadian kids I'm wrestling in hopes that they might get this WD thing that might help them get a visa to be able to, you know, wrestle more freely and stuff like that. yeah, you're only as good as your last match, but, you know, I like the pressure. I like the pressure. I don't know if that's a thing.

Starting point is 01:04:36 I don't, I don't think it's a thing because I think, like, I was at Rick Flair's last match. And I don't think that was his greatest match, but he's still one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, you know? Like when people say you're only as good as your last match, but then they're like, But Undertaker versus Sean Michaels is so good. Well, yeah, but that was like 15 years ago. That's exactly what I'm saying, right? like Eddie Guerrero versus Ray Mysterio is the greatest match of all time. Yeah, Rock versus Hogan.

Starting point is 01:05:02 Like, you're only as good as your last match, but as many teams, the best match ever, in my opinion. Yeah, some things live forever as, like, the greatest thing you've ever seen,

Starting point is 01:05:11 right? And I think about that, like, oh, you're only as good as your last game. Yeah, tell that to Freddie Freeman. Like,

Starting point is 01:05:15 game one of the World Series is going to be the moment of his career forever. Yeah. Like, I think that, like, I can understand that, like, wanting to get better and,

Starting point is 01:05:24 like, wanting to look back of your old stuff with a critical eye and improving on it, but, I don't know. I don't know if I subscribe to that. I don't think it's a really good saying. It's a great saying. It's catchy.

Starting point is 01:05:34 It's a good saying. But I don't think I agree with it, no. Not only did you have a match with Joe Henry. You also got the full Joe Hendry treatment. Oh, God. Yeah. Does he set up for you? Like, this is what the song is going to be about?

Starting point is 01:05:47 No. So I had been ripping apart Joe on Twitter pretty heavy. Like, just trolling him. Because, like, I'm the wrestler's wrestler guy, right? So I'm just like, this guy is the complete opposite of me. I'm just going to play into this and lean into it. And so I'm like making fun of him. He like puts up a thing saying like, oh,

Starting point is 01:06:05 NXT's been great. They have me down to the performance center training every day. I'm like, you need more training, dude. Like blah, blah, blah, like whatever. And we go into that TVs and it's before the TVs. And I go up to him and go, so what do you got? And he goes, I don't know. I kind of looked at you.

Starting point is 01:06:19 And I was just like, what do I really make fun of them about? Like there's not much. And I go, oh, you'll find something, dude, don't worry. And then, like, I watched it live. I didn't want to know because, like, I wanted to be out there reacting on the spot. Like, with my promos and stuff like that, I find if it's just very, like, off the cuff rather than, like, predetermined. Yeah. And premeditated.

Starting point is 01:06:39 I'm way better at delivery and stuff like that. That's more natural. People enjoy it more. So I watched it live and I'm just, like, holding back like, this son of a bitch, man. You kept the straight face. Yeah, it was tough. I was biting my lip pretty hard. But, uh, Kurt Angle from Wish.

Starting point is 01:06:55 That's the line right there, man. Like, you can do the Walter White thing all day long. That's fine. You kind of do look like Jesse Pinkman a little bit. I get, okay. See that? Thank you. But, uh,

Starting point is 01:07:05 very successful Emmy winning actor. Um, but the Kurt Angle from Wish thing, like, that was August. And I'm still hearing about it today. So, for better or for worse.

Starting point is 01:07:15 While that is, uh, he's making fun of you, that's also an incredible compliment. Yeah. You're in the same sentence as Kurt Angle, one of the greatest of all time. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:24 Yeah. I mean, I've never looked at it that way. You make me feel a whole lot better about it right now. I mean, think about it. Yeah, I'm being, I'm the T-Moo version of the greatest wrestler of all time. So that's pretty good. I mean, come on. I mean, I do do German suplexes and an ankle lock.

Starting point is 01:07:39 I think it's the ankle lock. Yeah, yeah. I've thought about getting rid of it. Did you have to talk to Kurt Angle and say, like, to do this ankle lock? So I was doing like a half crab at first. Like I think if you watch that Myers. Like Landstorm. Brian Myers match, I do the rollback half crab, Canadian crab in that match.

Starting point is 01:07:59 Canadian Maple Leaf. Yes. And then somewhere along the lines, it progressed to an ankle lock because there's way more ways in and out of it to make your match exciting. And then Ken was at TNA. Oh, that's what it was. Ken was there. And I went up to him. I was like, hey, I heard this is your last day.

Starting point is 01:08:17 He goes, yeah, it is. And I go, is it okay with you if I use the ankle lock from now on? He goes, oh, absolutely. Yeah, you do it great. Oh, blah. I'm like, okay, cool, got his approval. And then I did Kurt Engel's podcast like a year and a half later. And I said, hey, man, I ask Ken, I got to ask you.

Starting point is 01:08:32 Now that you've watched one of my matches, is it okay if I use the ankle lock? He's like, you have my blessing 100%. You do it properly, all this stuff like that. I was like, sweet, awesome. So I got the stamp of approval from the two guys that are best known for the ankle lock, right? So maybe I can't get rid of it. Now, you've just talked me into this. You can't get rid of it.

Starting point is 01:08:47 I see, I thought about getting rid of it because I'm just like too many people just compare me to Kurt Angle because I wear a singlet and do an ankle lock. but if you watch us like wrestling wise like I don't other than the Germans there's no other thing in my move set that I think it crosses over but I think it's just the intensity yeah and I think it's just like the pure wrestling that you bring to it but I mean that's a pretty great comparison yeah it's me and me and Kurt up there Chad Gable obviously I think Chad Gable's the only other person doing the ankle lock right now like oh if I get this wrong I'm sorry yeah but then Chad Gable gets the comparisons all the time as well.

Starting point is 01:09:23 Yeah. I think you're just stuck in that situation if you're a good wrestler and a singlet too. You just... You versus Chad Gable. It has been brought up on Twitter many times. I've seen in my mansions a few. I mean, how good would that be? I mean, I went through like a wave on Twitter with this NXT, TNA relationship. People are like, we need Josh versus Obafemi.

Starting point is 01:09:44 We need Josh versus Chad Gable. Okay. That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm like, yeah, sure. Bring it on, all this stuff. And like, I heard rumblings. that like Josh versus Gunther. I mean, it almost happened on the indie several times and got shut down to.

Starting point is 01:09:58 Oh yeah, this is different. Different. I mean, physically looks like a totally different. 60 pounds later, I have a better chance to be able to throw him somewhere. Yeah, I heard rumblings that the NXT thing was going to happen on a couple occasions. There were stuff that like was legitimately talked about for whatever reason it didn't transpire. And that's unfortunate. But like, I mean, you never say never in wrestling business, right?

Starting point is 01:10:20 Well, with the relationship that TNA had with NXT, we saw Jordan Grace and we saw Joe Henry, we saw some others. Everyone was throwing your name out there. It was you and Moose. They're like, it's just a matter of time, right, that we're going to see them. Well, I think me and Moose are kind of like for, especially the men's division side of things. Like, I think we're the two, like, I was the face, the heart and soul of the company for like two years. Moose has been the one constant over the past like decade now in TNA. Like he's the longest tenured guy there. So I think those are the two names that kind of stick out the men's division that you'd like to see do something else.

Starting point is 01:10:52 Like, if not me, like especially Moose, because you've only seen him tangle in this kind of playground. Yeah. TNA for so long, right? And I think the thing with this relationship,

Starting point is 01:11:01 the thing with AEW, New Japan is like, from a fan's perspective, this is what we want. We want to, we want to book dream matches and fantasize about, like, things that we never otherwise thought possible, right?

Starting point is 01:11:11 So I'm, I'm super grateful. I get into it, like, all the time when I read my mentions and there, like, something happens. And all of a sudden, it's like, we need Josh Alexander,

Starting point is 01:11:19 Chad Gable. And it's like, fuck. Just my Twitter going crazy. I'm like, well... Just wait till this interview comes out. I'll keep my fingers crossed, bro. I think we'd tear it up. But like, there's a bunch of guys like on that, on Raw and SmackDown that I was just like,

Starting point is 01:11:32 I would just love to be able to wrestle these guys, like Ilya, like, Bronn Breaker, Seth Rawlins. I've never wrestled. Oh, man. You know what I mean? Yeah. You go through those. And obviously like Bronson Reed and stuff, we've shown that we can have awesome matches.

Starting point is 01:11:45 And then like, I watched Dynamite and I'm just like, they're stacked too. You know what I mean? And it's just the wrestling business is an interesting place. It's going to be fun for me on February 15th, I guess. This episode is brought to you by Timeline. Timeline is a Swiss-based life science company, and they're a global leader in urolithin A research. So what's urolithin A?

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Starting point is 01:13:09 The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss. And I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clevenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Times ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claimant. And they want to be on that World Cup roster.

Starting point is 01:13:30 There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures. But we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast. Presented by Henko. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. When I see you do the C-4 spike, I just like, it's... Man, it's devastating.

Starting point is 01:13:48 Do you not think as a guy who's broken his neck twice that there's a real irony in doing a move that looks like you're breaking someone's neck? Yes, of course. But also I have the one thing where like, if they're hesitant to take this move, I'll be like, listen, I broke my neck twice. There's no way I'm ever hurting anybody's neck

Starting point is 01:14:07 so you can trust me. So you feel confident that you wouldn't hurt someone with a move like that? I've done that move over a thousand times. Nobody's ever complained any bit about it. And it's a testament to a few things. I know how to execute the move to make it look good. A slight bend of the knee helps elevate their head so it won't hit the mat.

Starting point is 01:14:28 If you see somebody do a pile driver and lay their legs straight like this, that's your head's hitting for sure. That's a pure ECW pilot driver. Yes, exactly. So a slight bend of the knees and a little lean back on the tailbone and everybody's safe and happy and it looks devastating. Like I did want to Alex Shelley prior to BFG the year before I wrestled Christian. to put him out of that tag match at the very start on the stage.

Starting point is 01:14:52 And I guarantee, like, his head was quarter of an inch off the ground. But that's how confident I'm in giving that move. And to go into this, I was wrestling at Slammiversary this year in, like, a six-man war, Ziegler, or Nick Nemeth, Joe Hendry, Frankie Kassarian, Steve Macklin, me, Moose. And Joe, obviously, this is where I do the turn. I low blow him. I give him a C-4 spike. eliminate him,

Starting point is 01:15:20 kill everybody's dreams in the world of believing in Joe Hendry, right? And I don't. You don't believe in Joe Hendry? Not none. None an iota. Okay? But like before the show,

Starting point is 01:15:33 Joe was kind of like, oh, I've never taken the double under pile driver, all this stuff. And he's like, and I can tell, like I'm reading his mind. I'm like, he's doing NXT. He doesn't want to get hurt.

Starting point is 01:15:42 He's terrified of getting hurt because he's got all these opportunities coming up. And I'm just like, Joe, I'll tell you how to do it. Like, I walk him through how to hook his arm so he keeps himself up and safe. And I'm just like, and I'll pick you up and just go up like a vertical suitbox. Like, let me pick you up right now.

Starting point is 01:15:56 And I hook. And this is before the show. So like the ring's just like all these wrestlers around like, oh, I'll do this moonshole, blah, whatever. And I'm like, hook, hook, okay. And now tighten up and I pick him and just go straight. And they go up and his ass comes right here. And he goes directly in my mouth, directly in my mouth.

Starting point is 01:16:20 What? Like the cutest little like like a kitten farted. And it came out of Joe Hendry. And it went right. And it was like, and I just like drop them like a sack of shit. And everybody in the ring for how quiet it was like literally it was just. And for how quiet it was,

Starting point is 01:16:43 everybody in the ring is just on the ground laughing hysterically. And I look at Joe and Joe's crying because he's like laughing so hard. And he's like, I'm so sorry, man. I'm so sorry. Oh, my God, that's embarrassing. This is how scared he was. He almost poked himself. The most adorable fart hitting in the back of the throat.

Starting point is 01:17:03 When I saw you give the C-4 spike to Moose, like, Moose is a big guy. Yeah. There's just an extra layer to it, an extra element of like you're getting someone that big up. And it looks even, I don't know, more devastating. Yeah. And Moose's head is a little bit.

Starting point is 01:17:21 enormous, so I really have to bend my knees to make sure to the minute. And if you gave them one through a table on the outside. Yeah, and that killed me. That, like, I couldn't walk the next day. I had a New Japan show the next day, and I flew there not being able to walk and, like, somehow wrestled the match. But as long as I can hook my hands, if I can hook your arms and hook my hands together, there's no chance you're going to get hurt.

Starting point is 01:17:40 So if someone's really big, you might not be able to do it to them? I just don't. Okay. Because, like, how are you going to get your arms around Bronson Reed? Yeah, we tried. He was like, maybe if you do, like, the thing, like the London, thing where you take me off the top rope with the feet thing. And I was like, no, man, I'm not confident.

Starting point is 01:17:57 He was like, no, it'd be fine. I'm just like, no, dude. Like, if I have a question, if your head's going to hit, I don't want to do it. I don't want to hurt anybody. So I just like ankle locked him. It's crazy. If you go to WWE, you might be able to do it. We recently saw a pile driver there.

Starting point is 01:18:11 A regular pile driver's pretty devastating. So mine would be like a completely different animal. I mean, or if I go to AEW, it probably can't do it because 17 people do it there. So, like, I don't know what's going to happen. No, of course you can do it there. I mean, yeah, but it might be kicked out of like once or twice before I go out. But maybe it's just mine. That's super impressive.

Starting point is 01:18:31 But, yeah, that's all stuff like I'm thinking about, too, leading in a free agency. Like, where could I go? And what would I have to change and stuff like that? Because obviously there would be like an evolution of what Josh Alexander is, too. What do you think you'd have to change? Well, you just want to be different. You want to stand out, right? Like, I wouldn't want to do pretty much any moves that anybody.

Starting point is 01:18:51 else does just to make sure I stand out. I know MJF does like my power bomb on the knee move I do. I've seen Kenny and Will and some other people do the Donald Party. I think Kyle Fletcher just did it too. So like that would have to change. I think somebody's already doing an ankle lock in a. So

Starting point is 01:19:07 I might have to change everything. But I'm okay with that. If you're saying February 15th, there's no chance of you being in the Royal Rumble. I mean, unless TNA and their WWB relationship works something out. I guess anything's possible. Yeah, we can do that all day long. Anything can happen. And at WWW.

Starting point is 01:19:23 And you never say never in the wrestling business, right? But is it, so it's February 16th? February 15th. Oh, so I, Valentine's Day is my last day. Okay, okay. Which is weird, but yeah. Hmm, it's romantic. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:19:36 Yeah. What's that line for Moneyball? It's something about getting romantic about baseball. Feel the same way about wrestling. There you go. How can you not get romantic about wrestling? Well, I'll just be an anxious person on a date with my wife that night, I guess. Are you anxious?

Starting point is 01:19:50 Yeah. Well, like, anxious. I said, nervous, excited. You know what I mean? To me, I have had to bring myself to the fact that I might just be doing construction again because I always want to think worst case scenario. I have learned over 20 years in wrestling to never think of the best case scenario and never like count your chickens before they hatch or anything like that because you'll be let down

Starting point is 01:20:10 the majority of the time. And I've learned those lessons the hard way. So I'm not doing it this time either. But if there was ever a good time to be a free agent in wrestling, it's now. I've been told that by a few people as well. Like I hired representation now. So like I have agents and stuff like that working and they'll be doing all this for me, which I'm super grateful for because that makes this so much easier because they know way more about it than I do.

Starting point is 01:20:34 Yeah. But they've said the same thing. Like AW just got their television deal. WWE last year at this time when I had my discussions about maybe not picking up my option. Like they were in a holding pattern because like management was shifting and the restructuring of like the whole TKO merger acquisition thing. So like now kind of the dust is settled and all that stuff and both companies seem to be doing really well.

Starting point is 01:20:58 So it seems to be a good time. You've got options. What do you think that Bully Ray match did for your career? I think it showed people a different, different side of me that they otherwise would not have seen working with, you know, I did great storytelling and great promos with like Eric Young leading an Islamiversary. like nine months before that. Same thing with Alex Shelley at emergence.

Starting point is 01:21:23 A few months later. Same thing with Eddie Edwards going to BFG. But like until it's somebody that has this clout in the wrestling business of being one of these people that does this, you know, has done this at the highest level with some biggest names. I think it's just a different thing. And like, bully worked with me very, very, it was tough at the start. I don't know how to really say it other than that. Like he kind of was standoffish with me. And I don't know if it was that he wanted me to buy into his gimmick more in like a backstage perspective.

Starting point is 01:21:56 But he was also very helpful at the same time because he's all about storytelling. And that's what we do at the end of the day is tell stories. And the stuff I learned just in that two and a half month span leading up to that match at Hard to Kill is stuff that I'll take with me forever. Like just like a pre tape. So a pre tape is like a promo with no audience, right? And you're just talking to a camera. A lot of times they feel flat. And for me, I was struggling.

Starting point is 01:22:20 Because I'm just like, I can't, like, if I go out there in front of the crowd or if I have a wrestler in front of my face, completely different story. I have no problem, like, just delivering that. Like, it's a real thing. When it's just a camera, that's where I struggle. And bully, like, pulled me aside. He was like, you look at that camera and all you see is me. He's like, you see me peering at you and you want to give me a thousand yards stare to

Starting point is 01:22:39 make sure that I'm intimidated by whatever you're saying, that I know what's coming to me, all this stuff. And just like, the way he said it, I was just like, oh, my God. How did I not just think about this, like, all the time? So now every time I cut a pre-taped, like, I'm picturing whoever it is I'm talking to as the camera. And it's like helped me tenfold. And it's improved my promos so, so much. But that and like I kind of had a chip on my shoulder with that because like the greater wrestling audience on Twitter and social media was like, this is going to suck.

Starting point is 01:23:07 Bullies the worst. Blah, he's over the hill. All this other stuff. You know what I mean? And I was just like, no, this is going to be awesome. And like, I think you put like bully Ray hard to kill title defense I had up against anything I did in that title. offense. I think it's neck and neck with some of the best matches I had. Is there a moment in that match when it really clicked or a moment just working with bully that really clicked?

Starting point is 01:23:27 I would say it was in the match and it was probably when I ended up getting zip tied to the top rope. And I saw my wife came down to the ring from like the audience to like kind of get in the way because she's kind of been sprinkled into the storyline here. And this was a very hardcore match for anybody who hasn't seen it. Oh yeah, I'd already bumped in tax. She's greater to your face. Yeah, I had tax in the back of my. my head and stuff. And I'm zip tied to the ropes. And like, he just said, come in and beg me off. And they did like a beg off thing for like two and a half minutes as I'm trying to like rip

Starting point is 01:23:58 myself off these things. And he's like, give me a wedding ring. And she was like, what? And she's just like, they didn't talk about this prior anything that he's saying. And like she's reacting. And he's like, yo, you give me that ring right now. Because above all this stuff like making her bag. And I'm just like this guy's like it. And the crowd's going insane with everything he's saying. He just keeps up in the ante along the way. And I'm just like, you got to be able to go to that place. And it takes an insane amount of trust from your opponent to let you do that and stuff like that. But at the same time, like I told bully, I have all the trust in the world for what he's going to do.

Starting point is 01:24:30 I'm very grateful that we got to work together. I wish we could have worked together longer because I would have learned so much more, I think. I don't get how cheese grater's work. You don't need to explain the magic here. But I watched him and I'm like, man, when I nick my finger when I'm grading, cheese. I'm like, ah! You guys are taking this to your forehead. I don't understand the magic of it either. To be honest, that

Starting point is 01:24:53 thing was touching his forehead the whole time. Like, rub it down his forehead. You were bleeding a lot, too. Yeah, I was bleeding off, like, I think the first thing he did, I can't remember, but yeah, then that was the first time I did tax. Like, you think about my entire run

Starting point is 01:25:08 throughout that World Title reign, I had shown really kind of one note of me. Just really badass wrestling, hard-hitting wrestling. Yeah. And sometimes really technical wrestling, sometimes like working with a high flyer. It's like just a more high fast pace wrestling. And I wanted that match to be different. Like I had talked to them after Bound for Glory.

Starting point is 01:25:27 And I was just like, you realize I've never done a gimmick match here. Like what do you mean? I was just like, I've never done a gimmick match here. Like any stipulation other than Iron Man, which I don't think is really a gimmick, guys. Just a long match. Yeah, it's just long. And they were like, well, you don't need one. Like other people need it to have like better matches.

Starting point is 01:25:44 Some people are protected with, you know, ability to use tables and stuff like that. And I was just like, okay, but think about how much better my match could be if we had that stuff. And they were like, okay, we'll give you, probably for bully, we'll give you full metal mayhem. I was like, thank you. Oh, my God. Yes.

Starting point is 01:26:00 Because it's just like, it makes it like, as brutal as that match was, that match was so easy for me to do. Because like, it's just moments. Hardcore matches are just moments that you split up. There's no like transitions of like, you're not getting blown up.

Starting point is 01:26:16 having to like, not that I get blown up a lot, but like, you know what I mean? You're not like really pressing yourself from a cardiovascular perspective to like keep the pace up and stuff like that because you have these huge moments with these huge payoffs where you get to relax and sell and tell a story with the facials and stuff with the camera. So you feel like you have to prepare more or less for a longer match. Because there's this quote, I'm just going to paraphrase, but like if you have to give an hour long, if you have to go a five minute speech, it might take you two weeks to like figure out, all right, what are one of the, one of the few. things I want to do. I have to pare down. If you have an hour-long speech, you're like,

Starting point is 01:26:50 oh, man, I have the freedom to now do whatever I want. I've never heard that, but that's exactly how it is for me. And I feel the same way about these interviews. Like, if we only had four minutes together, I'd be like racking my brain for weeks. Like, what are the three questions I'm going to talk to Josh about? Yeah. We get an hour plus like this. Just hang out. Yeah, yeah. The conversation always leads itself to being a much easier interview, right? Sure, yeah. But like, same thing with wrestling for sure. Like, if it I don't think there's anybody in the world. I don't care how good you are.

Starting point is 01:27:20 I don't care how many five-star matches you have or something. If you have an hour-long match, there's no way you're remembering an hour of content for your match. If you can, all the power to you. I haven't met that person yet. But, like, for me, I think an Iron Man match is the most challenging match stipulation there is for you to challenge yourself as a pro-rassler to see if you're capable of doing this because you can plan 20 or 30 minutes of stuff.

Starting point is 01:27:44 and then after you run all that stuff, that's what you're going to find out if you can really do this. And that's the stuff that sets you apart. That's putting yourself in uncomfortable positions when you do it on pay-per-view or on TV where you have time queues and all this stuff to hit. And I'm thankful that I've gotten opportunities to put myself in those uncomfortable positions.

Starting point is 01:28:00 But I for sure spend more time obsessing about an eight to ten minute match than anything. If you get me 20, 25 plus, I'm breathing easy because I'm just like, we can just make magic happen out there for most of this. Like, do you feel confident?

Starting point is 01:28:18 I'm sure the answer to this question is yes. But if you were wrestling a 10, 15 year veteran and you had a 10 minute match, could you call it out in the ring the entire thing? Yeah, absolutely. It's like as long as, so I've had this happen a couple times where I've worked on short notice. Somebody got hurt and they're like, Josh, can you go out there? I'm like, cool. And I'll just be like, what do you do?

Starting point is 01:28:39 And they'll be like, a super kick pile driver, moon, assault suicide dive. And I'll be like, okay. And I'll go out. And I'll be like, that's fine. Because they're all in my head right now. And I'll do this, this and this suicide dive and I'll fall out the ring. Oh, there he is.

Starting point is 01:28:53 Boom. All this stuff. You know what I mean? And like, me and Nick Nemeth did an Iron Man match. That was probably the least amount of plan for an Iron Man match that I've ever done. Maybe 15 to 20 minutes of it was planned. Everything else was just us walking and talking. And I'm wrestling this guy who I have a ton of respect for, you know.

Starting point is 01:29:12 And I'm just like, he's called matches with John Sina. He's called matches with Randy Orton. He's just like, where they're just going out there and be like, see you out there, kid. Like, that's all they do.

Starting point is 01:29:21 And I'm just like, I'm going to see if I can do this shit too, you know, whatever. And we get out there and we're just, we're telling each other's stories the entire time just talking. And like half the stuff we're like not even calling spots.

Starting point is 01:29:31 We're just like, you okay, dad? How's this going? Blah, blah. Oh, I think it's going great. You know what I mean? And the crowd's none the wiser. And I'm just like, this is wild.

Starting point is 01:29:38 But it's a lot more fun that way too. because when it hits, that's when you're really like you fell upon something as opposed to putting it in the back, obsessing over it. And then you go out there and it doesn't hit. And you're like, oh, what was all that work for you? You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, as we sit here right now, it's three months away. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:56 It's three months until you're a free agent. It'll be very interesting to see what happens. I'm excited for you. And good to be able to catch up with you. And congrats on everything. A ton has changed since I saw you in person last. And I just want to say congratulations on everything you've done. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:30:14 I appreciate it. Obviously, I'm very happy to see that you're flourishing in the wrestling community with all your interviews and stuff like that. I love watching them. I'm trying. Send all your friends over here. We'll bring them all on.

Starting point is 01:30:25 All right. I'll end this with the question I ask everybody. I don't think we did this last time you were on. Gratitude's so big for me. Josh, what are three things in your life that you're grateful for? Well, first I'll say, health because, you know, I know a lot of people that are in good positions of being in health right now. My friend Chris Bay is in the hospital 20 minutes from my house right now, you know,

Starting point is 01:30:53 dealing with a neck injury. And that really puts it in perspective, you know. It could happen at any moment. Family, I'm just, this family I've built over the past eight, nine years, just something I never thought possible. I'm just like, I wake up and I'm in awe of like just having this thing. just to be in the position I'm in where I can provide for them and stuff like that and make sure they're happy every day. That's a beautiful thing, isn't it? Yeah. And it was just like, this stuff you, I don't know if you did this because you've only recently

Starting point is 01:31:24 had children and you're at a different point in your life than I was. But when I first, my first son was born, I didn't know how I was going to get my next paycheck sometimes or how, you know what I mean? And just to have that pressure and that anxiety weighing on you and then to be in a position now where you don't, that's. I feel it's still like do my own thing. So at the start of every month,

Starting point is 01:31:45 I have zero dollars. I have a good idea of what might come in, but it's not like every two weeks I've got a paycheck. No. It's like, yeah, I've got a little girl at home and another baby on the way. And it's like,

Starting point is 01:31:57 yeah, like there's a real sense of like, you've got to make some stuff happen here. Then I had a moment that you're kind of talking about. Like, I just woke up the other day and I said to my wife, I'm like, what a beautiful life we have.

Starting point is 01:32:10 Like, It's just reminded me what you were saying there. Yeah. Like I have people in my life that are like complainers. And they like to just dwell on the negative and stuff like that. And they'll be like this, this is this way. This is this way. I'm like, you know, like there's millions of people that don't have fresh drinking water right now somewhere in the world.

Starting point is 01:32:29 And that's why I love to focus on the things that I have rather than being upset and angry about the things I don't. It instantly changes your perspective. Yeah. And perspective is everything. That's one thing I've definitely learned as I've matured over the years. Third one? Man, I mean, my wife and kids kind of encapsulate family. Health is really important.

Starting point is 01:32:54 I mean, I'm grateful for opportunities, the ones that I've had before and the ones that I might get in the future. That's a good way to sell this off for three months coming up. It's a perfect boat on top of this. Well, good to see you, man. It's good to see you, too. Thanks for having me. Well, we'll see what happens in a few months. All right, my friends.

Starting point is 01:33:23 So February 15th, that's the day that Josh officially becomes a free agent. He's so extremely talented. I can't wait to see what's next for him. So also, go check out some of those matches that we talked about during this episode. The two matches that he had with Will Osprey in TNA were just incredible. And TNA is really good about putting their full matches out on their YouTube channel. So go find those on their YouTube channel. And while you're on YouTube,

Starting point is 01:33:50 drop an elbow drop on that subscribe button on both my main channel where you can watch these full interviews and also on the CVV clips channel, which is closing in on a million subscribers. I hope that you're one of them. Snap a screenshot and tag us so we can share this out. He's that walking underscore weapon. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and I saw a quote. I don't know who this is from, but I will share it with you because I love this.

Starting point is 01:34:16 You can do anything, but not everything. Focus. Be great. Be grateful, my friends. We got a big one coming up on Thursday. Bobby Lashley was my first wrestling interview that I ever did, January of 2007. So almost 18 years to the day later, we are running it back. Yes, Bobby Lashley is on the show. On Thursday, you will not want to miss it. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands.

Starting point is 01:34:50 trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley.

Starting point is 01:35:04 Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Josh Alexander Is A Free Agent! TNA, 5 Star Matches, Will Ospreay, Breaking His Neck, C4 Piledriver

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