Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Justin Credible: his battle with addiction, why AEW is like ECW, being fired from WWE

Episode Date: December 19, 2019

Justin Credible (PJ Polaco) joins Chris Van Vliet for a candid conversation at Wrestlecade in Winston-Salem, NC. He goes into detail about his battle with drug and alcohol addiction, his time as ECW World Champion, getting hired and fired by WWE, why his character didn’t work in WWE, the similarities between AEW and ECW, what he thinks is the best ECW Pay Per View of all time and much more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, y'all? It's Druski, and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a hilarious new basketball podcast called The Do Zone with Drusky. Learn the backstories of your favorite ballers and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time or no? Was the Raptors even started around that time? Come on, bro. I ain't that old, fam.

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This is the Chris Van Vleet show Chris Van Vleet show Ladies and gentlemen Chris Van Ville All right my friends Are you ready for something Truly incredible

Oh you know you clicked on this You know You know this is just incredible Thank you for being part of this audio adventure And thank you Thank you for putting the show into the top 200 list on Apple Podcasts last week. That is, that's incredible.

See what I did there? That's incredible to think about. It's amazing to think about. And it was such a nice surprise. So thank you for being part of this and helping to spread the word to everyone and let them know that yes, I do in fact have a podcast because I understand that not everyone has 45 minutes or an hour or two hours like the Austin Aries interview to sit down and watch. and pay attention to a YouTube video.

You'd rather just listen to it. I hear you. Literally, I hear you. I'm with you on this. Get it, hear you? Because it's a podcast. But it means so much to me that more and more of you are part of this. Whether it's on the podcast or the YouTube channel,

people ask me all the time, what would be better for you, Chris? If I listen to the show on your podcast or if I watched it on YouTube, and the honest to God answer is it doesn't matter to me. If you're just part of this, and in one way or the other, whether you're watching it or listening, to it, whatever you're happening to do, however you do it. It's just great that you're part of this with me. So thank you for sharing in these conversations. Please take a screenshot. Let me know that you're listening to this. Tag me in it. I'd be happy to retweet you or share your Instagram

story. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And if you happen to be listening on Apple Podcasts, please take a second to leave a review. That helps the show grow more than anything. And I'm happy to read it here. Like this one from Blaze Mob, who says the goat of podcasts, Chris Van Vleet. So he wrote it out like that, like lots of eyes and lots of ls and ease. Thanks for the great interviews, bro. So glad I can listen to this at work now that it's in podcast form. Thanks, Chris Van Vleet. So many S's and A's and E's in that one.

Well, thank you, Blades Mob. And this is exactly what I was talking about. that you can listen to this at work when you're in the car commuting, driving to work, or whether you're on the treadmill. I listen to my podcast most of the time, not my podcasts. I listen to the podcast that I listen to when I'm at the gym. I actually don't really listen to my podcast. Just kind of like appreciate the moment as it happens, appreciate the interview and the

conversation and then let it live on as it's living on right now. Also, thank you to Samson for providing us with the audio equipment to make the show sound great. You don't have to spend a ton of money if you're looking to get into podcasting or YouTubeing. That's a verb, right? YouTubeing? Sure. My mics are just $89 and they sound great. They're super portable and they're awesome. You can check out the full lineup at samsontech.com if you're looking to get into this. Now, Just Incredible's work rate in ECW is like really second to none. And when I was just starting to get into ECW, it was him and Mike Awesome that were the champions at the time. So we're talking like the end of 99 and into 2000 here.

Now, don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. I still watched a lot of wrestling before that, but I was mainly like into WWF, little bit of WCW during the commercial breaks. And then I randomly one night stumbled upon ECW on a Friday night on TNN. Remember when Spike TV was called TNN, the Nashville network? And it was so hard to not fall in love with ECW and everything that it stood for. I mean, ECW took the attitude era that WWF was doing and turned it up to 11.

And they were doing stuff that the WWF would never think of doing. And it was amazing. And you'll hear the story here. I loved Just Incredible so much that I bought a Got Blood shirt. I had it shipped to me in Canada. I left out of the part of the story when I told him that the shirt was too big and looked kind of stupid on me when I wore it. But I wore it nonetheless because it was awesome. And so is he.

And I love how open he is here when he speaks about his struggles with addiction. And while I'm sure he's moved to WWE after his super successful run and ECW was like really frustrating with how underused he was, he could be super angry about it. But he speaks about it with this immense amount of gratitude. And I really loved hearing that from him. You can just tell you can tell how much he loves the business. I really enjoyed this. I know you will too.

It's not just the coolest. It's not just the best. That my friends is just incredible. You know this interview is going to be incredible, right? I certainly hope so. How are you doing, man? It's a pleasure to be here, man. Oh, no, I'm so happy to be able to make this work.

Yeah, me too. And it means a lot to me because in the year 2000, 17-year-old Chris Van Vleet, living in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, ordered a Got Blood shirt online. I cut off the sleeves so I could wear it just like you. That's hilarious.

And you know the story behind that was I didn't make the shirt up. I literally, at the time, I was just searching for something for a gimmick. And I literally was shopping at Hot Topics. And I just thought, Got Blood, Blood, ECW. Seems kind of cool. Got milk was the hot thing.

Yeah. So I was like, okay. and it caught on. Oh, it caught on. And yeah, here we are. So we're at, we're at Russellcade right now in North Carolina. You do a lot of conventions? I do, yeah.

I try to stay busy as much as I can, and we do a lot in New York. I was just at the old ECW Arena. Did one over there for Tommy Dreamer's House at Hardcore. So, yeah, you know, staying busy, man. And you're still working, like you're still wrestling. Yeah, I'm still wrestling. I'm not in the best of shape, but I'm working on that. 46 years young and 27 years in the game.

Yeah, that's crazy. So, yeah, I'm just trying to, I'm just so passionate. I really, sincerely, Chris, I love this business. And there's nothing that makes me feel better than getting, you know, even though my style may have changed and I've slowed down physically, of course, all the years. There's nothing like being able to entertain an audience, whether it's 200 or 2,000 or 20,000. Yeah.

And to me, that's something that, you know, it's like a drug. You love it. It's what you do, like actors act. Sure. You know, and I'm just blessed to be able to have any kind of platform, you know, to do what I do. Just, for example, just to be on your show is awesome. Well, you have your own show. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

I do a podcast called Talking Elite with Vince Russo. And I also have my own small little individual podcast called I Hate This Podcast. So, you know, yeah, well, I hate this town I used to wear. Right. So it's just a little, you know, play on that. But, yeah, I just try to stay as engaged in the product. And, you know, I don't want to be one of those old-timers that says, get off my lawn.

I want to adapt to what the business is changing into and try to stay fresh. You know, hanging around kids, well, kids, younger men and women in this business and their ideas keep you young. Yeah. You know, like Razor Ramon, when I started hanging around with him, he's like, I always pick up the, I always pick up the, I always pick up. pick up the young boys because they make me feel young. And, you know, whether it's music,

pop culture, and, you know, he just opens up your head to different ideas and different ways of doing things you may not have seen in your old ways. So people that might not have tuned in yet to talking elite, people are going to think it's, you know, all elite wrestling. Yeah. And is that the only thing you're talking about? That's, for this particular podcast with Vince Russo, it is. What we do is we watch AEW Dynamite on Wednesday nights.

And, you know, we wait one day for the, the ratings to come out. And then on Friday, we go live on Twitch and Patreon and just review the show. And it's interesting because Vince Russo, obviously, Attitude Era, writer, very successful, but also very controversial. Sure. You know, he had very high ups and very big downs. You know, people say a lot of things.

You know what I mean? Very opinionated. And, you know, and he admits himself. He's made a lot of bold moves. Some hit, some didn't. Right. But he's the writer. of the podcast and I'm the wrestler.

So he gives his opinion on the writing aspect and I just give the professional wrestling side of what, you know, a veteran would say, you know, and we just review the show and give it an honest, you know, fun time, you know. Since you used to say I hate this town and SCU's gimmick is, worst town ever. Yes. Or worst time I've ever been in.

How do you feel about that? At first I, I see, I'm so not vain. I try not to be. I didn't connect. And then I'm like, wait a minute. Didn't I do that? Like a long time ago. And I've known Christopher Daniels since we were both kids.

Like I've known him since I was 21, 22 years old when we were all doing jobs in the WWF in the 90s. Right. So I've known Christopher a very long time. But I just think they came up with that themselves. I don't think it was anything. But it's just, it's funny how what old, what was old is new again. Yeah. You know, it's usually the same spin.

You're just trying to get a response from whatever crowd you go to. And it's just easy. Cheapied, as Mick Foley would say. That's definitely. You know what I mean? This resurgence for you in the ring. Do you think that's something that you owed to yourself? Or is that something you think you owed to the fans?

That's a great question. Not to the fans. To myself. That's a deep question because I've always felt like, I was talking about this with Shane Douglas. A lot of guys, like, and I have no heat with any of them, but like the Hulk Hogan's The Undertakers and many others. stayed around so long and God bless them.

There was that generation got skipped, for example. You know, guys like us that were, you know, when we're supposed to be coming up in like the 2005s, that was like the veterans, that was our veteran time. They were still on top. So we kind of just went away and got wiped under the rug and then this new generation. So for me, I owe it to myself.

I've made a lot of mistakes in my life through drug addiction. and, you know, stuff like that, which really took a toll on my career in many ways, and I've had many opportunities. I was under contract with the WWE three separate times. Twice I got let go once I quit. But for me, I have something to prove to me, not to my family. Everybody's, we're all good, and the fans, respect and love me, and I'm grateful. But to me, I would just like to close it on my terms because I do love it so deep.

deeply and I feel so much passion for it. I would just like to do it right for me as a performer and as an individual. Do you have an end goal with how much longer you'd like to do it for or a certain match you'd like to end on? Not really. I honestly, I'm 46 years old. I don't see myself being able to go much longer than maybe 4850. And I'm not talking full time. I'm talking sporadic.

Right now I work once a week. I wrestle once a week. That's pretty solid. You know, it's not of the magnitude of an AEW or WW, the physicality. You come out with a cane. Well, you know, I don't mean a cane, like, I mean a Singapore chain. But I do right now, when you're on the indie scene, you know, I'm playing the retro gimmick. Yeah.

And it's all fun in games. A lot of ECW chance. And it's very easy and laid back. And I do work. Like last night I worked in Dunbar, West Virginia. I bled. I see that. and in front of 200 people, not because anybody told me to,

because I felt I owed it to the fans that paid their hard-earned money, and I figured, well, I might necessarily be able to give them the match that Just Incredible could have 20 years ago, but I'll at least give them a sense of hardcore that they may have remembered from me back. I just want to send everybody home, I'm so grateful that they're coming out to see me and paying respect. I want to give them that back in any way possible.

So, yeah, I always try to, and I don't do this every night. Don't get me wrong. You're not blading every time. No, no. Not even close. My wife would kill me. But what I mean by that is, though, I want to give them something. I want the fans to go home saying, and last night I saw that in the kids' eyes.

Like, wow, you know, I saw a lot of stuff tonight. I saw a lot of young kids flying around, but, you know, I was one of the only guys at the merch table afterwards still selling my ribs. You know, little blood dripped on my face, and they're like, wow. Like, they know it's not. real, but it's still that, well, I don't know, that, it looks kind of, I don't know, he looks hurt to me. Yeah. And to me, playing that role is fascinating.

And that's part of the business that I think is lost. You know, Terry Funk always taught me, he would sometimes work the boys. He would limp around backstage, and he would work the guys. And when he went through that, well, Mikey Whiprek used to call him Yoda. And the reason he called him Yoda was Yoda would limp around in Star Wars And then when it was time to have the Lightsaber duel he would zip around

Right Boy when Terry Funk went through that curtain He would just be Terry Funk Sure And I just want to I want the fans to always remember I gave them what I could Yeah you know

And never ripped them off And gave my best Whether, hey if I'm a little overweight If maybe I don't have the wind I used to at this moment I still give you something Yeah So you know And I'm working on the physical piece to it.

So nonetheless. I mean, are you looking to drop some pounds? Oh, yeah. No, I've been talking to Dallas Page for a while now, and I'm on the DDP yoga program. I'm on the diet. But my biggest problem is consistency, quite frankly, because my life has been really hectic, A, traveling and B, you know, just life. My wife has, you know, she's a nurse's aide.

So her hours are different. I have a 12-year-old disabled boy that I have to take care of, which is, you know, It's wonderful, but sometimes, you know, you make excuses for, well, I'm a little tired today. I'm not going to, you know, and I just got to do better, take more accountability and, you know, and get there, and I will. But when you have a reason to as well, you know, and I think I have more of a reason now than I've ever have to get in shape. You know, you always, you know, it's like, you know, for example, you want to get ready for beach season, you know. Right. You get a little cut up.

You start, you know, hitting the gym, you know, you want to. And that's the same kind of thing. I think there's something in my future that is going to happen in the business. That's going to give me that reason to work out and to get in good shape. So there's something the fans should be looking for you doing soon? I think so. I'm anticipating. There's a couple things out there.

You know, I don't want to get too specific, but in the wrestling universe that I'm looking at. Great. You know, and, yeah. It's interesting that you say that you feel like your generation. was kind of skipped over because I felt so bad, you know, you were ECW champion, then ECW, you know, went under and got bought up by WWE. You came in and you were like low to mid-card. And I just felt so bad because you had so much potential.

Well, what had happened, it broke my heart too. And initially, it was the weirdest time in professional wrestling because if you remember correctly, WCW was going under as well. Yes. and ECW as well. So now you've got a monopoly. Yeah. And everybody's jumping ship.

Yeah, and they had the whole invasion angle. And it's like if you don't have a, you know, if you don't have a life raft, you know, Titanic is sinking and you don't got a raft, I got, I was lucky enough to get one. I got a six-figure deal. And initially they teamed me with Xbox, who was an old-time friend of mine, running buddy of mine. And we were a hell of a tag team. But then right in the middle of what we were doing. doing, the

you know, WCW got bought under. And then the invasion kind of I went with the invasion side. They went with the, Pac went with you, you know. And they just got completely blurred because you had all these amazing, think about it, you have every star in professional wrestling to compete with.

And I'm competing for a spot. Yeah. So it really, you know, being that we could have been a hell of a tag team to, you're lucky you have a job kid. Yeah. It just bad, you know, wrong place, wrong time. It almost felt like WWE was going, yeah, you're lucky you have a job, and like, because of that, we're going to kind of bury you a little bit. They could do whatever than want.

Yeah. And also what would hurt me, because one thing I learned in ECW was how to get over with the fans. Yeah. But also, I wore jean shorts in ECW. Well, Stone Cold. It was still Stone Cold era. He wears jean shorts. Okay.

My finish, I did both the Tombstone and the Superkick. Well, the Undertaker does the. Tombstone Show and Michael, so I can't do that either. Right. So whatever made Just Incredible, Just Incredible, and all of it became, you can't do that. Because ECW allowed you to almost, you could parody the other company. We were the anti-establishment, so a lot of it was an offshoot of what they were doing. And if they didn't want to play ball with the way my character was represented, and I know Vince

McMahon never saw an ECW, Just Incredible match. they hired me on well we know PJ we know you know you know we hear he's doing good work well you had been there before yeah and that's that's the merit you get hired like sometimes uh young men and women think you know well Vince sees our stuff he doesn't watch wrestling he watches his product but he's not he you know there's people that are telling you know this kid's good he's coming up blah blah blah so it was you know it's silly for me to assume that they know my character and in all that was going on, I never had the chance to fully communicate to them, like, my needs as a performer, and it just kind of fell by the wayside.

It happened to Mike Awesome. A lot of us, yeah. It happened to Lance. Lance, my former Impact player, you know, got the T-shirt. Yeah, you know, one of the best, you know. Yeah. One of the best ever. And, yeah, so, you know, it's kind of come full circle for Lance.

He's now back with WWE. Which is amazing. And honestly, for Lentz, you know, Lance, that's probably where he belongs. Because I went through the heart camp in Calgary, Alberta, Canada in 1992. He had gone through in 1991. And originally, Keith Hart and Bruce Hart was supposed to be the trainers. Realistically, they were there once a week.

Lance was there every day. Wow. So Lance Storm really was my trainer. Wow. You know, and he's so good at and patient with young men and women in the business. And he's with his storm wrestling. Academy, which is now actually closed since he's going back to WWE, he's produced so many talented men and women that are hugely successful.

Yeah. That's his true call. Yeah. And to be clear, he's going to be a match producer in WWA. Yeah, he's not, you know, he's not signing with them as a wrestler. No, no, not as a performer. But he was always, he's that good at communicating and having patience and developing talent and teaching and grooming since day ones.

I mean, he's a prodigy. So I think this is going to be his true call. calling. I'm so happy for him. He's one of the nice guys in the world. Yeah. And, you know, he's my brother, you know. When you look at the product now, do you see any shades of ECW there? In WW? No, in NAW. Yes. But in a specific way, I see that they are, their style is different. And in some ways, I don't necessarily always like what they do. I feel sometimes it's very much repetitive to me.

they could do better storytelling. For me, as a fan, just a fan. But they have that, that rebellious attitude that there's a spirit about AEW that is really it's catching on it, especially with the millennials, with that 18 to 48 demographic

that's so important. So yeah, I do see some similarities. The one thing that they don't have, and I'm not being critical, but they need, there's, there's, the, we had Paul Hamon, and Paul was just a crazy insane visionary, and he just threw a bunch of, and I'm not going to swear, but a bunch of, well, a bunch of shit against the wall and whatever stuck,

stuck. Right. And I just think that they're finding their footing, their groove. But yeah, there are a lot of things that are very similar, and they have a huge opportunity. And I want nothing but for AEW to succeed, because AEW succeeds, and they all. are succeeding and doing very well, pro wrestling succeeds. Sure. And it's good for everyone.

We all work more, and it's more awareness to the business professional wrestling and the product. And we all gain, because if you notice competition with WWA, competition is healthy. Yes. Makes everyone better, you know, and, you know, I do. I think there's similarities. I think it's healthy, and it's exciting. I mean, like I said, I watch it more than once because I take notes and I have to review. it. So, you know, yeah.

You didn't say anything bad about me on there. Oh, dude, no. Absolutely. I made a couple of... Are you ribbing me? No, not at all. We had a couple of appearances on there. No, not at all. Are you kidding me? No, but I have really high hopes for it. And I honestly think that they can do great things.

And they have the talent. They're MJF. He's out of Long Island. And I'm friends with Kurt Hawkins. And again, I just did a couple shows with him from his wrestling school. MJF's last indie show and that kid's on fire. He's probably going to be one of the best heels in the next 10 years. Sure. You know, he's really geared up for that.

He's a very bright, very talented individual. Yeah. I find it incredible that it's been almost 20 years since ECW, you know, went under. And fans are still chanting ECW. And they're not chanting TNA, which is still around. They're not chanting WCW. They're not chanting Wrestling Society Acts, Lucha, whatever. What is it about ECW?

The 20 years later, people are still kind of clamoring for that. It's not the violence. At first, like, a lot of people think if they don't, you know, at first it was a unique time in pro wrestling because WWF at the time I was Aldo Montoya. The Mantar. They had the goon. They had horrible gags. You had a jockstrap on your face.

Exactly. And on the WCW side, and no disrespect, but they had the dungeon of doom, hokey stuff, real cartoonish stuff. And what ECW did wasn't necessarily so groundbreaking. They just did what they did back in Texas in the late 70s and the 80s. They just brought it back to, you know, we brought in guys like Terry Funk and veterans that could work, that were in between and really brought back wrestling, which, especially in the city of Philadelphia, they were clamming for just real good, hardcore professional wrestling, which I feel is what AEW is trying to do. They're the next phase of it because everything evolves. You know, ECW wouldn't work today the way we did it because really we were just, you know, what made us cool was Shane Douglas would get on the mic and Barry Vince McMahon or Barry Eric Bischoff.

And it's not about that today. It was just a unique time, but the spirit and the style. And, you know, when you hadn't seen blood and you hadn't seen barbed wire and that was from Japan and all so much going on globally. And now I think with the Internet and social media and so much availability. it would be hard to replicate because we see so much. But I think the spirit is there. The work rate was.

ECW, what extreme was was work rate. I know it meant blood to a lot of people. And it was in the beginning, but it meant also to Jerry and Super Crazy. And working hard and 20, 30 minute matches. And, you know, that's what it was. It ended up being something completely different than what people kind of thought it was intended to be.

I think AEW, if done right, is headed in that direction. Well, Tony Kahn's a very big ECW fan. He was, yeah. I couldn't believe when I heard that. Oh, yeah. That is, it blows your mind, man. It's like, that's why to this day, when I meet a young man or a young lady at a show, I treat them with respect because you never know.

Sure. Seriously, you never know, man. You may influence these people. And that's why I always try to be kind and grateful to have fans because someday they may end up being your boss. Coming from that extreme era, coming from ECW, what did you think of John Moxley and Kenny Omega's Lights Outmatch? Even for me, seeing what I've seen, I even cringed a little bit. What was the most cringe-worthy spots?

Not to give much away because I don't know any of the inner workings. I do not know the inner workings, but the glass, some of the barbed wire stuff, even to me, I was like, you know, Because I had never done that stuff. Yeah. Even me. Yeah. You know, I've done some barbed wire stuff with Dreamer and Sandman and so forth. It worked with Terry Funk, but not at that level.

So I thought it was, it would, I mean, but at the same time, it shows the passion and the giving and they're all. And John Moxley's been waiting 10 years to do that. Oh, yeah. He's been, you know, and Omega is Kenny Omega, one of the best in the entire world. Yeah. So, you know, yeah, but it was cringe-worthy, man. I watched it uncomfortably. Not because it freaked me out.

I was just like, guys, don't get. I don't want to see nobody hurt themselves. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. God forbid. We just had Moxley on the show, and he was showing me like scars on his hands. He was like, oh, yeah, that's from glass. That's from barbed wire.

I'm like, dude. Yeah, I may have run into him as when he was younger because he's from Jersey. And I'm, I lived in Jersey from that area. I don't think I've ever met him. I think he's from Cincinnati. Oh, is he? Yeah, he's from Cincinnati. I think so.

Maybe because of CZW. Yeah, maybe there it is. Yeah. Sorry. But I don't think I've ever met him, but he's truly, man. He's got it. Whatever it is. And he could be the next thing.

Well, he really good. He's in line for a title shop from the looks of things. Yeah. And Jericho. Brother, even me. And like I said, I came up. Jericho was a class behind me. and I think Chris was my fourth ever match.

Wow. It's out there somewhere on YouTube. If you look it up, Rocky Mountain Pro Wrestling 1992, PJ Walker versus Chris Jericho. Wow. Yes, he had long, big rock and roll hair, a lot thicker than it is today. And I actually had hair in front of 100 people.

But anyways, he was my fourth ever match. But to see Chris today, and the way he, man, you hear his music, I still get goosebumps. He is so over. and the way he's commanding AEW, it's just like, they really have something special, especially with Jericho. Yeah. You know, and I, and at his, and not, not to diss the age, because I'm old too. Well, it's bad word, but he's still doing it.

He's still doing it at a high level. Well, he keeps reinventing himself. And he's brilliant. He is. Brilliant. I mean, you've been, you know, you kind of went through a reinvention yourself, you know, with the help of Diamond Dallas Page. Yeah. Um, you know, how much did he help you kind of get out of what you were in?

Man, just, Dallas is one of those guys where he will, he will call you, no matter what time, no matter how busy he is. And he makes you accountable and not to bust your balls, but literally, bro, what are you doing? You know, and you respect and love him. And he's like, he just cares about you. Yeah. You know, get to this. Get up off your ass.

Come on, man. And he'll, you know, he'll talk to you for 30 minutes or 30 seconds, whatever you need. And he'll give you that time. And it's amazing. I thought to myself at first, like, why is Dallas doing this for me? Like, I don't even know him that well. Yeah. And he's just a very selfless guy.

And I think he gets something out of it because I think he genuinely likes to help people. That's not a work. I don't get nothing from, you know, I don't get nothing from saying that. But I think that's genuinely who Dallas Page is. And just keeping me a kind of. accountable. And like anytime, like, he'll give you a call. Hey, man, how you doing? Checking in. What's all? Yeah. Yeah. Almost like a sober buddy, you know. And I'm not always, I'm not going to say I'm perfect. I haven't done drugs in, I haven't, I was an opioid addict, heroin addict. I haven't done that since 2011.

But, congratulations. Thank you. But I have a problem with alcohol. Am I perfect? No. Do I drink every day? No. I'm trying. I'm working hard. And it's not very easy all the time. time. I'm not going to lie to anybody. And nobody asked me this question. I'm being open. Because somehow that relieves me to, you know, just to get it out there. But I'm

getting better. And I'm, you know, and having a purpose, like, you know, having people by your side and saying, like, dude, because the only reason I have a purpose is like, I love what I do. Sure. Like, you love what you do. Yeah. This is being around these great people, you know,

it gives you reason to, well, I want to wake up and train tomorrow. Yeah. I want to do better tomorrow. Yeah. And that's what it's all about. Yeah. And I think that's for me for a long time.

What was missing was, you know, and I kind of, it's like that make you work in the wrestler. Like, you took everything that we love away, and I think that was where the depression and the shit hit the fans. Sure. Now that it's coming back a little bit, it's it, you know, every day gets better. Why do you think alcohol is your vice? it's not my vice okay well because i you know i i'm not going to buy illegal drugs i don't have a doctor

to take me you know what i mean okay you know i have to take uh urine tests so you know and you don't feel dirty having a couple of you know what i mean sure it's more accepted like i can't smoke pot for example i know a lot of people it's legal in a lot of places it's a probation thing it's a probation yeah and even if it wasn't i wouldn't do pills or anything of that nature but But, you know, it's just if you're having a bad day, it's much easier to go to the liquor store and get some beer. Hell, you can go to the corner store. You know what I'm saying? And again, it's no justification whatsoever.

But it's just more, you don't feel dirty. You're not doing a backdoor deal to get something you shouldn't. Sure. You know, and I guess that's the easiest way to kind of say it. Yeah, yeah. I know it sounds like it's a cop out in some ways. But it's, you know, you're rationalized. Yeah. Well, with the opioids, at what point did you realize that there was a problem?

Oh, man, that's a great, and I have a great answer. 2001, after I signed with WWE, I had a couple weeks off. My son was turning one years old. Me and my mom, my wife, my dad, and my son went to Wildwood, New Jersey, to the beach, to the boardwalk. And we were ready to leave from Connecticut. It's about a four-hour ride. my wife says hey babe you don't have any more Vicodin do you want me to call a doctor get a refill like no I'm not wrestling don't need it seriously legitimately as stupid and innocent as I could say no I'm not wrestling I'm cool well I get down there you know fine first night man Jill is it a little my wife's name is Jill it's a little hot in here I can't sleep man maybe it's the bed a little nauseous you know man take a shower

whatever. Then the next morning, you know, diarrhea, a little vomiting. Third day, I'm starting to cry for no reason, getting very emotional and very sick. Fourth day, I was cracking. I was like shaking and shivering, killing sleep. Called my doctor. I'm like, Doc, what's wrong with me? I don't know what's wrong. And he goes, well, do you have your medication? And no. I just didn't feel, he goes, okay, called it in, took a couple pills. Wow. Normal. I wasn't even getting high. anymore. I was just getting normal. Wow. And I didn't realize, wow, and then, like, light bulb, because I never was big into drugs.

It was like light bulb, physical addiction. And I like a lot of people in a lot of professional sports, pro wrestling, whatever, you know, you get hurt. And you're, you know, you got to keep going. Yeah. And they used to give it to you. They don't anymore, thank God. It's a lot more restricted. But back then, they just give it to you.

And it took me down a road. It took me down a real bad road. So that was 2001. Yeah. And you didn't get clean on that until 2011. It was 10 years. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. It was a battle. It was a battle. And, you know, and it was, every day was where are you going to get your name? You know, I was running prescriptions from different doctors, different pharmacies. And what really happened when Chris Benoit happened, Vincent sent out letters kind of to everybody. And the doctors cut everybody off. So then that's where, I can't believe I'm saying this to everybody,

that's when, you know, doctors cut people off and then it's like, well, where am I going to, I still got to go to work. Sure. I'm going to be sick. Yeah. And you're buying it off of, you know, not the streets, like, you know, on the corner, but, you know, you might know John, you know, down the road that has something. And once that dries up, you know, one day somebody's like, well, you ever do heroin?

Yeah. I'm like, no? Well, it's kind of like. Well, okay, I'm sorry. And then went that way. Wow. And thankfully, again, I'm not trying to put W.W.E. over, but through their recovery program, they put me in treatment. And, you know, ever since, you know.

But that was, you know. They took good care of us. That was big for you, though, to go, I have a problem here. You called up WWE. I needed it. Can you guys take care of it? I didn't want, I couldn't live like that anymore. Yeah.

Not with that. And W.W.E, you know, they took care of. everything. Yeah, they took care of everything and and more than once. Wow. More than once because I went back to treatment for alcohol in 2017 and they took care of that as well. World-class places too. How long are you actually in rehab for? I've done a couple stints, 28 days. Okay. 28 days. And after 28 days, you're fine? Well, no. No. It's, it's, you know, you got to do me, they say to good, do meetings, maybe therapy once a week. You know, it's forever a strong.

struggle because when you take drugs or alcohol to that level, your brain chemistry is off. Sure. You know, your dopamine, your endorphins, they're very low. Even though you're not addicted physically, you're still lacking in, you know, you're miserable. You're not happy and you don't know why. And it's almost like a very much of a deep depression. It takes sometimes a year to build that back up in your body. So it was a very difficult time.

It was really, really hard in trying to mask it. Well, a mask is not a good word, but to hide it from the world out of shame, guilt, whatever. You know, and you don't want to let anybody know. So you just try to truck along and get by any way you can. But your marriage withstood this, which is very impressive. To a beautiful wife for 23 years, man, since 1997. You know, still going strong. Three beautiful kids.

My oldest is a sophomore at Rutgers University. Wow. Congratulations. You know, two other beautiful children with her. and yeah, still going strong. But it's great to see, you know, after hearing all of that, it's great to see where you're at now. Yeah, I mean...

You seem like you're in a great frame of mind now. I've realized now, especially the older I get, you know, all of this could be gone in a minute. And we're a very unique time in wrestling where there's so much out there for us. And again, it's what makes me happy. And my therapist has said this to me, too. You've got to look for other things to make...

And, of course, my family is my job. driving force. But, you know, we're driven people. We're a goal-oriented people. So, like, you know, you've got to find stuff to go after. So I got to just keep setting goals, whether they're in the business or outside the business, you know. And I just, right now, I just have a certain frame of mind where, you know, I only have a couple years left as an active performer. I just want to go out on my terms in a positive way. I don't want to waste a career in a negative light. You know, I just want to make this right. And going forward, of course, not just for wrestling, but, you know, for me, because it's something I hold so near and dear,

I just want to make it right, you know. Do you have a certain person that you want to have that final match with? No, no. Well, if I could have a final match with anybody. Sure, anybody. It would probably be Tommy Dreamer. Yeah. And the funny thing is, and if he's listening and watching,

we've already had this retirement match a couple years ago. in Sayerville, New Jersey. But if there was anybody, it would be him. Do you still keep in touch with Polly, Paul Heyman? I have not, no. I haven't taught. Unfortunately, there's no heat at all, no, but, you know, he's a busy guy. And, you know, it's weird sometimes in this business. There's so many of us, there's a disconnect, you know, and I haven't talked to him

probably in five or six years. While there's a disconnect, you sat at a table here with Raven, Salmon, Shane Douglas, Rino. Yeah, those are the guys. That was badass to see all you guys together. When I see those guys, it's honestly like no time has passed. You know, I wrestled Shane Douglas two weeks ago. So that's a little bit.

I see Shane quite a bit. But I haven't seen Raven in over a decade. Wow. I haven't seen Rhino in probably the same amount of time. Mikey, I see quite often. Again, a lot of it's locally where we live and do independent wrestling. But nonetheless, man, it's like when you see each other, it's like no time has passed. And you love those people.

There really is an honest. and especially with the ECW guys. And I've seen this, and everybody talks about it that's involved in it. You don't get it with the WWE. You don't get it with other groups, TNA, and I've worked for all of them. Something in ECW, those three, four years, because it was almost like we were a band of brothers.

Like, we were in this fight. Like, not a physical fight, but in this, we wanted to just make a mark. And, you know, that's something that only we know. Oh, yeah. And when we see each other, it's like, literally, your brother, your best friend, you know, and I love these guys, you know. I'm telling you, I have said this as Sandman, if we had a, like, what we're doing right now, if we put that in the car, and just for the conversations we have. Yeah.

Just silly stories, funny stories. I think you've got an idea. It's a reality show, dude. I've said it to people, nobody listens. Well, you can just put it on YouTube. I know. I got to get these knuckleheads to do. Just, you know.

Put your phone at the front, hit record, and do your thing. It's amazing. It's just the stories. The silly stories. The stories of Terry Funk and Saboo and, you know, and weird stories about hotel rooms and certain groupies. I guess it's all over the place. Sure.

I don't want to get too graphic. But, you know, just fun, crazy, rock and roll, ECW style stuff that I think would be gold. Those were the days. Yeah, it were fun days. And, you know, looking back, those were the best days. And I hate to say that because I hope tomorrow. will be better than today. But those are the best days of a lot of our lives, professionally at least.

Professionally, but the crazy thing is you've got another 40, 50, 60, 70 years in front of you to do and create whatever it is you want to do. Sure. You know, do you have ideas for what you want to do? I really, I really enjoy podcasting. And not necessarily in the pro wrestling field. You know, Joe Rogan, of course. Yeah, of course.

I love the Joe Rogan podcast. And, man, I just would love to have disclos. course in conversation about politics, society, music, art. I'm into so many diverse things. How do you get, you know, because people want to talk about wrestling, and there are so many wrestling podcasts available. It's hard to make a mark in that territory. I would just someday like to find a little niche in that, and other things, you know, but right now I'm just, you know, I'm still looking for it, though. That part of my journey I've not found yet, where my next part of life is going to be.

Somebody told me the other day, and I think Dallas has said this to me too, you'd be a great recovery coach if you can get your ass sober. Because they say you shouldn't really do that stuff if you don't have a year. I certainly don't have a year. That's true. That's honest to God. But you could, you absolutely could. And I thought about that because my story is so unique.

Yeah. Look what Mark Merro was doing. Yeah, just helping other people. And the woman that I go to the center, you know, that helps me with that stuff, I go every two weeks. And she said, that would be something really good for you if you thought about it. And I was like, I never thought about that. And Dallas said it too.

And I was like, maybe somewhere down the line if, you know, you're not supposed to say it's going to happen, but you're supposed to say one day at a time because that's true. Right. You know, and hopefully that comes to fruition. And if I want it to happen, it will come to. If you chased after this with the same drive that you had to get into wrestling, to get into WWE, then to get into ECW, become world champion, you can absolutely become the world champion of this too.

Absolutely. I feel that. It's totally attainable. I just got to stay focused. I really do. And sometimes life kicks you in the ass, you know, whether it's finances, whether it's, you know, whatever happens in life. You know, your car breaks down.

you get it, you know, something happens. You know, sometimes those are those triggers that make you go, but, yeah, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Well, when you talk about, you know, arts and films and all that kind of stuff, are there certain, you know, books you're reading or stuff like that? Right now I'm reading, I like self-help books. Right now I'm reading Tony Robbins, Awaken the Giant Within.

That's a classic. Big self-help guy. I love that. And actually, Dallas sent me his book Unstoppable. That book's incredible. Yeah, I haven't finished that yet. but I you know and I love right now I'm watching

the Irishman I started it's a three and a half hour film It's a marathon yeah Scorsese film with Pacino and De Niro But I haven't got through that yet Hopefully I get through that tonight But I'm just all over the play I love music

I love music And I'm actually doing a One thing real quick I'm doing a small independent promotion Called Battlefront Pro Wrestling Extreme We only run once every two months In Connecticut And I work with the band

They're signed to a legitimate label called Crossing Rubicon. They actually did a video featuring me a full-length music video called Seeing Red. It's on YouTube. Super cool, shop professionally. And what we're doing is we're doing five matches and we're having bands play, but like real bands that are signed to deals and like, you know, local. Yeah, play the entrance themes? Yeah.

And like just something that's different. Yeah. We're just trying. And again, it's a low budget. But just something, again, like a passion. project, something that's not, you know, it's not going to change the world, but a local thing that we're just trying to do to have some fun and see if it sticks. Yeah. You know.

You're very much an entrepreneur. You know, you're working for yourself. I try, bro. Yeah. I really try, you know, and that's all, you know, that's what pro wrestling has been for me my whole life. I've been, you know, self-employed. Yeah. You know, I've been my own business.

Yeah. You know, yeah, I just, you know, but also because I love what I do. Yeah. I love to create. I love, because when it's right, there's nothing better in the world. world. Yeah. Even sitting here talking to you, I'm having a great time. Like sometimes interviews are really, are really painstaking, but I'm getting to, I feel like I'm getting to communicate to not just yourself, but to the people. And you have a broad audience. My feelings, my life and

kind of where I've been. So, you know, it's all positive. I think that, you know, there's a certain demographic that's watching this right now that hasn't seen you since either ECW or since WW. Well, a lot of the kids, that's the whole thing, too. That's the biggest problem. problem for me, I feel, and a lot of us guys, ECW has been long gone. The kids coming up today don't know it other than the WW network, if they so chose to go on and watch ECW. So you're really fighting an uphill battle to rebrand and somewhat reintroduce yourself to the young, you know, the millennials. Well, let's help them out, you know, for the ECW fans that are watching or for the people who maybe want to tune into some ECW, what is the greatest just incredible match of all time?

Wow, that's a handful. I'll give you two and I'll do them quick. Me and Sabu, Anarchy Rules, 1999, Chicago, Illinois. That was one of my favorites. Incredible. And Jerry Lynn's going to get mad at me. But another one was me and Shane Douglas, 1998 from the ECW Arena. What is the greatest ECW pay-per-view of all time?

Heatwave 97. Dayton, Ohio. Dayton, Ohio. And that's why Jerry Lynn's going to get mad at me. Because Jerry Lynn and I were the opening match. And we were just in Dayton, Ohio, a couple days ago. And the arena we sold out was the old Harrow Arena, which they tore down this year. But it was just top to bottom.

I feel like that's what every ECW fan says. So to hear you say that that was your favorite too. It was special for me. Those were my bucket. And, you know, I hate to say that because, like, I never have any WWF stuff in there. It's like almost like I can't, you know, I burned out early. It's like I was 25, 26 when I was half. those matches.

Right? You know, so it's kind of like, man, you know, but anyways. Whose idea was it for Aldo Montoya to have what you had in your face? Well, originally, the reason they even offered me the Aldo job was I lived in Connecticut and the office is in Stanford. Sure. And I was doing jobs and I was, you know, good at what I did. Brian Lee was coming in to do the faker taker gimmick

and they didn't have a performance center at the time they just had a ring set up in their old warehouse and I literally they hired me for five days to go work with Brian Lee and Mark Undertaker to do the fake Undertaker I was just basically a crash test dummy Well on Friday full dress rehearsals Vince McMahon and Paterson came down

So it was just us a couple guys you know, four or five guys going through the motions. And then Paterson, you know, it all went very well. And I was going to wrestle him live on Raw the next week. And Vince and Pat started asking me questions. Like, who trained you? I was like, well, the hearts. Really?

Brett was there. All right. You know, there was a connection. What language are? You know, where nationality are? I'm Portuguese, sir. Portuguese, really? Do you speak it?

I'm like, well, yes, sir, I do. Oh, they popped. The whole time they were looking for a Portuguese character. because business was bad in America. So they wanted to go overseas to Portugal, but also Brazil, because Brazil is 75% of South America, and that's what they speak. And Aldo Montoya, a lot of people don't know this, was originally sketched by creative as a soccer player

because the World Cup was around in 95. Wow, okay. So Aldo was supposed to be a soccer player. And then they scratched out. It made me look like a... And if you saw the original Aldo... I looked like I had Road Warrior, Shoulder, shoulder pads.

Okay. Bad ass Adonis. And when they handed me that stuff two hours before I went out there on Raw for my debut, it looked nothing like you. Oh, no. But nonetheless, it was a great opportunity. You brought it back recently, didn't you? Well, just as, just to do a retro thing.

Yeah, yeah. People I ask. And, you know, not to do it in a serious manner, but almost in a tongue-in-cheek way. Sure. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's how wrestling is now. You know, hey, why not?

I haven't done it yet, believe it or not. nobody's nobody's actually wanted me to do it but I have a couple t-shirts out on pros and teas and you know hey if somebody wants to do it I'll throw it I have it with me today

so you know just again if somebody wants to take a picture why not dude you know just again trying to just stay out there and do something different I want to say I know

it's a great note to end on though I want to say thank you for taking the time to do this oh thank you sir I appreciate PJ we'd been we'd been texting for a while to make this happen and now we're in the same place at the same time. It's awesome. Couldn't have worked out better.

And I'm so grateful. Thank you for having me on your show, man. Of course. And, you know, where can people find you? Um, on Twitter at PJ Polako. Also on Instagram. Same thing at PJ Polacko. And, uh, they got a great YouTube channel with, uh, great instructional videos called Pro Wrestling 101. Just go to YouTube and put that in the search engine. And, um, that's pretty much good. And then your podcast, too. And my podcast with Vince.

Podcasts? Well, podcasts. Yes. I hate this podcast is, uh, Apple, iTunes, that whole thing. Vince Russo's podcast, Talking Elite, is Patreon.com backslash Rousseau, TWC. And that's pretty much it. It's just great to see where you're at now, knowing where you were, you know, 10-ish years ago. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very grateful, man. I'm grateful to be here. And, you know, Winston-Salem is a great, it's like a high school reunion to be around all these great guys and seeing new friends.

And, you know, now I've got to wrestle in a couple minutes. That's another one. But, you know. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chris. It was my pleasure, sir. Appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Well, there you go. Just Incredible. Ladies and gentlemen, and if you're an ECW fan like I was, I know how much you must have enjoyed this chat. Give PJ some love on social media. Check out both of his podcasts. And I really hope that he's able to accomplish everything it is that he lays out for himself in 2020, both personally and professionally.

And once again, a huge thank you to Just Incredible, PJ, whatever you want to call him, for being as open, as honest as he was here. And I love that his love for the business just oozes through in absolutely everything that he says and every single story that he tells theirs. So if you enjoyed this, please take a screenshot. Tag me, tag PJ, let us know what you thought about this one. And man, I'm just so glad we were able to make this happen. We had messaged back and forth for like six months trying to make this happen.

So I'm so glad that this conversation happened. And it almost didn't happen. It almost didn't happen at Russell Kate. I saw him. I spoke with him. And we went about our business for the rest of the day at the convention. And then when I reached out to him, he's like, oh, man, I just left. But I will turn around and come back there and make this interview happen.

So PJ, thank you. Thank you for making this happen. And I kind of said this in passing in the last episode, but a lot of you tweeted me about it and quoted this. So I'm going to put out there again. and in like a more official term. It's a quote from Tony Robbins. And he says, the quality of your life is the quality of the questions you ask. So you want a better life?

Start asking better questions. I'm going to try to ask better questions in 2020 as well. So I'm so pumped for the last few weeks here of 2019. I hope that you make the best of those weeks as well. And man, 2020 is just around the corner. Let's make 2020 the biggest and the best year. yet. Woo!

I'll see you next Thursday. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video.

They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.