Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Justin Credible On Battling Addiction, Why AEW Is Like ECW, Getting Fired From WWE - Interview from December 2019

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Justin Credible (@pjpolaco) is a professional wrestler known for his time in ECW and WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet for a candid conversation at Wrestlecade in Winston-Salem, NC in this interview that first aired in December 2019. He goes into detail about his battle with drug and alcohol addiction, his time as ECW World Champion, getting hired and also fired by WWE, why he doesn't think his character didn’t work in WWE, the similarities between AEW and ECW, what he thinks is the best ECW Pay Per View of all time and much more! Sponsors:  To get 15% off go to http://mudwtr.com/cvv to support the show and use the code CVV15  Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com  MANSCAPED - Get 20% off and free worldwide shipping with the code CVV at manscaped.com   Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3-PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF Quote I'm thinking about: Clapping for others does not take away from your own success. For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bleas! All right. Welcome back to another one here on Insight. I am CVV. Chris Van Fleet, good to see you. Hope the week is going well. Actually, in fact, I hope your week has been just incredible.

Uh-huh. Yeah, we had to go there. We had one half of the impact players on the show last week, a conversation that I absolutely loved with Lance Storm, my fellow Canadian. Also, my fellow Wilfred Laurier University, Goldenhawk. Yeah, we went to the same university, albeit at different times, but the same school. And once we got to talking, we realized we also stayed in the same dorm. What a small world.

Crazy. So if you haven't checked out that episode yet, that is an episode we did last week. So I think that's two episodes ago with Lance Storm. And when you think about ECW, especially in the final few years, Justin Credible is certainly one of the names that comes to mind. He's a former ECW ECW heavyweight champion when he beat Tommy Dreamer. Remember that? Francine turns and, oh, man, the whole thing there.

And this is actually an interview that we recorded in person in 2019. So if you didn't check it out then when it came out, you're checking it out now. And everything that we talk about here, I feel like it's still like very pertinent, especially all the talk about his career, everything he's been through, the ECW stuff. And that just makes me think, there's lots in the back catalog here. So if you're a new listener to Insight, first of all, welcome. I'm super grateful that you're here.

But there's some great interviews in there, like some obvious ones like The Undertaker, Cody Rhodes, LA Knight. Yeah, the Rock, Stone Cold, but like a ton. And I mean a ton of hidden gems over the last 500 or so. episodes. So do a little digging in there and dig up some gems. If you enjoy this, please tag Just Incredible. He's at PJ Polacko. He's going to be like, oh my gosh, I did that interview like three and a half years ago with Chris. That's so cool that all these people are listening to it now. So tag him. I think that would bring a nice smile to his face. Tag me. I'll retweet it so then

we'll make sure that he sees it, although he's pretty active on Twitter and Instagram. So take a screenshot, tag us and here we go. Enjoy this chat with Just Incredible. You know this interview is going to be incredible, right? I certainly hope. I do, man. It's a pleasure to be here, man.

Oh, no, I'm so happy to be able to make this work. Yeah, me too. Me too. And it means a lot to me because in the year 2000, 17-year-old Chris Van Vleet living in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, ordered a Got Blood shirt. That's great.

Online, I cut off the sleeves so I could wear it just like you. That's hilarious. And you know the story behind that was I didn't make the shirt up. I literally, at the time, I was just searching for something for a gimmick, and I literally was shopping at Hot Topics.

And I just thought, Got Blood, Blood, ECW. Seems kind of cool. Got milk was the hot thing, yeah. So I was like, okay. And it caught on. Oh, it caught on. And, yeah, here we are. So we're at WrestleMania right now.

North Carolina. You do a lot of conventions? I do, yeah. I try to stay busy as much as I can, and we do a lot in New York. I was just at the old ECW Arena, did one over there for Tommy Dreamers House of Hardcore. So, yeah, I'm staying busy, man. And you're still working. Like, you're still wrestling. Yeah, I'm still wrestling. I'm not in the best of shape, but I'm working on that. 46 years young and 27 years in the game. Yeah, that's crazy.

So, yeah, I'm just trying to, I'm just so passionate. Really, sincerely, Chris, I love this business. And there's nothing that makes me feel better than getting, you know, even though my style may have changed and I've slowed down physically, of course, all the years. There's nothing like being able to entertain an audience, whether it's 200 or 2,000 or 20,000. And to me, that's something that, you know, it's like a drug. You love it. It's what you do, like actors act. Sure.

You know, and I'm just blessed to be able to have any kind of platform, you know, to do what I do. Just, for example, just to be on your show is awesome. Well, you have your own show. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I do a podcast called Talking Elite with Vince Russo. And I also have my own little, small little individual podcast called I Hate This Podcast. So, you know, yeah, well, I hate this town I used to wear. Right. So it's just a little, you know, play on that.

But, yeah, I just try to stay as engaged in the product. And, you know, I don't want to be one of those old-timers that says, get off my lawn. I want to adapt to what the business is changing into and try to stay fresh. You know, hanging around kids, well, kids, younger men and women in this business and their ideas keep you young. Yeah. You know, like, Razor Ramon, when I started hanging around with him, he's like, I always pick up the, I always pick up the young boys because they make me feel young. And, you know, whether it's music, pop culture. And, you know, he just opens up your head to different ideas and different ways of doing things you may not have seen in your old ways.

So people that might not have tuned in yet to talking elite. People are going to think it's, you know, all elite wrestling. Yeah. And is that the only thing you're talking about? That's it. For this particular podcast with Vince Russo, it is. What we do is we watch AEW Dynamite on Wednesday nights. And, you know, we wait one day for the ratings to come out.

And then on Friday, we go. go live on Twitch and Patreon and just review the show. And it's interesting because Vince Russo, obviously, Attitude Era, writer, very successful, but also very controversial. Sure. You know, he had very high ups and very big downs. You know, people say a lot of things. You know what I mean?

Very opinionated. And, you know, and he admits himself. He's made a lot of bold moves. Some hit, some didn't. Right. But he's the writer of the podcast, and I'm the wrestler. So he gives his opinion on the writing aspect, and I just give the professional wrestling side of what, you know,

a veteran would say, you know, and we just review the show and give it an honest, you know, fun time, you know. Since you used to say I hate this town, and SCU's gimmick is worst town ever. Yes. Or worst time I've ever been in. How do you feel about that? At first I'm so not vain.

I try not to be. I didn't connect. And then I'm like, wait a minute. Didn't I do that? A long time ago. And I've known Christopher Daniels since, we were both kids. Like, I've known him since I was 21, 22 years old when we were all doing jobs in the WWF in the 90s. Right.

So I've known Christopher a very long time. But I just think they came up with that themselves. I don't think it was anything. But it's just, it's funny how what old, what was old is new again. Yeah. You know, it's usually the same spin. You're just trying to get a response from whatever crowd you go to. Sure.

And it's just easy. Cheapete as Mick Foley would say. Definitely. You know what I mean? This resurgence for you in the ring, do you think that's something that you owed to yourself? Or is that something you think you owed to the fans? That's a great question.

Not to the fans. It's myself. That's a deep question because I've always felt like, I was talking about this with Shane Douglas. A lot of guys, like, and I have no heat with any of them, but like the Hulk Hogan's, the Undertakers, and many others stayed around so long. And God bless them.

Um, there was that generation got skipped, for example. You know, guys like us that were, you know, when we're supposed to be coming up in like the 2005, that was like the veterans, that was our veteran time. They were still on top. So we kind of just went away and got wiped under the rug and then this new generation. So for me, I owe it to myself. I've made a lot of mistakes in my life through drug addiction and, you know, stuff like that, which really took a toll on my career in many ways,

and I've had many opportunities. I was under contract with the WWE three separate times. Twice I got let go once I quit. But for me, I have something to prove to me. Not to my family. Everybody's, we're all good, and the fans, respect and love me, and I'm grateful. But to me, I would just like to close it on my terms

because I do love it so deeply, and I feel so much passion for it. I would just like to do it right for me as a performer and as an individual. Do you have an end goal with how much longer you'd like to do it for or sort of match you'd like to end on? Not really. I honestly, I'm 46 years old. I don't see myself being able to go much longer than maybe 4850. And I'm not talking full-time.

I'm talking sporadic. Like right now I work once a week. I wrestle once a week. That's pretty solid. But it's not of the magnitude of. an A.EW or a WW, the physicality. You come out with a cane. Well, you know, I...

I don't mean a cane, like, I mean, a Singapore. Singapore. But I do right now, when you're on the indie scene, you know, I'm playing the retro gimmick, and it's all fun in games. A lot of ECW chance. And it's very easy and laid back. And I do work. Like, last night I worked in Dunbar, West Virginia.

I bled. I see that. And in front of 200 people. Not because anybody told me to. because I felt I owed it to the fans that paid their harder in money, and I figured, well, I might necessarily be able to give them the match that Just Incredible could have 20 years ago, but I'll at least give them a sense of hardcore

that they may have remembered from me back. I just want to send everybody home. I'm so grateful that they're coming out to see me and paying respect. I want to give them that back in any way possible. So, yeah, I always try to, and I don't do this every night. Don't get me wrong. You're not blading every time. No, no, not even close.

my wife would kill me. But, you know, what I mean by that is, though, I want to give them something. I want, I want the fans to go home saying, and last night I saw that in the kids' eyes, like, wow, you know, I saw a lot of stuff tonight. I saw a lot of young kids flying around, but, you know, I was one of the only guys at the merch table afterwards still selling my ribs and, you know, little blood dripped on my face, and they're like, wow. Like, they know it's not real, but it's still that. well, I don't know.

It looks kind of, I don't know, he looks hurt to me. And to me, playing that role is fascinating. And that's part of the business that I think is lost. You know, Terry Funk always taught me he would sometimes work the boys. He would limp around backstage and he would work the guys. And when he went through that, well, Mikey Whiprock used to call him Yoda. And the reason he called him Yoda was Yoda would limp around in Star Wars. and then when it was time to have the lightsaber duels,

he would zip around. Right. Boy, when Terry Funk went through that curtain, he would just be Terry Funk. Sure. And I just want to, I want the fans to always remember I gave them what I could.

Yeah. You know, and never ripped them off and gave my best. Whether, hey, if I'm a little overweight, if maybe I don't have the wind I used to at this moment, I'll still give you something. Yeah. So, you know, and I'm working on the physicality piece to it.

So nonetheless. Are you looking? to drop some pounds? Oh, yeah, no. I've been talking to Dallas Page for a while now, and I'm on the DDP yoga program. I'm on the diet. But my biggest problem is consistency, quite frankly, because my life has been really hectic, A, traveling, and B, you know, just life. My wife has, you know, she's a nurse's aid, so she's, her hours are different. I have a 12-year-old disabled boy that I have to take care of, which is, you know, he's wonderful. But sometimes, you know, You make excuses for, well, I'm a little tired today.

I'm not going to, you know, and I just got to do better, take more accountability and, you know, and get there. And I will. But when you have a reason to as well, you know, you know, and I think I have more of a reason now than I've ever have to get in shape. You know, you always, you know, it's like, you know, for example, you want to get ready for beach season, you know. You get a little cut up. You start, you know, hitting the gym, you know, you want to. And that's the same kind of thing. I think there's something in my future that is going to happen in the business.

That's going to give me that reason to work out and to get in good shape. So there's something the fans should be looking for you doing too? I think so. I'm anticipating. There's a couple things out there. I don't want to get too specific, but in the wrestling universe that I'm looking at. Great. You know, and yeah.

It's interesting that you say that you feel like your generation was kind of skipped over because I felt so bad, you know, you were east. CW champion, then ECW, you know, went under and got fought up by WWE. You came in and you were like low to mid-card. And I just felt so bad because you had so much potential. Well, what had, would it happen? It broke my heart too. And initially, it was the weirdest time in professional wrestling because, if you remember correctly,

WCW was going under as well. Yes. And ECW as well. So now you've got a monopoly. Yeah. And everybody's jumping ship. Yeah. And they had the whole invasion angle.

And it's like, if you don't have a, you know, if you don't have a life raft, Titanic is sinking and you don't got a raft, I got, I was lucky enough to get one. I got a six-figure deal. And initially they teamed me with Xbox, who was an old-time friend of mine, running buddy of mine. And we were a hell of a tag team. But then, right in the middle of what we were doing, you know, WCW got bought under. and then the invasion kind of I went with the invasion side

they went with the, you know, and then it just got completely blurred because you had all these amazing, think about it, you have every star and professional wrestling to compete with

and I'm competing for a spot. Yeah. So it really, you know, being that we could have been a hell of a tag team too, you're lucky you have a job kid. Yeah. It's just bad,

you know, wrong place, wrong time. It almost felt like WWE was going, yeah, you're lucky you have a job been like, because of that, we're going to kind of bury you a little bit. You can do whatever than want. Yeah. And also what would hurt me because one thing I learned in ECW was how to get over with the fans.

Yeah. But also, I wore jean shorts in ECW. Well, Stone Cold. It was still Stone Cold era. He wears jeans shorts. Okay, my finish, I did both the Tombstone and the Superkick. Well, The Undertaker does the Tombstone show on Michael. So I can't do that either.

Right. So whatever made Just Incredible, Just Incredible, and all of it became, you can't do that. Because ECW allowed you to almost, you could parody the other company. We were the anti-establishment, so a lot of it was an offshoot of what they were doing. And if they didn't want to play ball with the way my character was represented, and I know Vince McMahon never saw an ECW, Just Incredible match. They hired me on, well, we know PJ, we hear he's doing good work. Well, you had been there before.

Yeah, and that's the merit you get hired. Like sometimes young men and women think, you know, Vince sees our stuff. He doesn't watch wrestling. He watches his product, but he's not. You know, there's people that are telling, you know, this kid's good, he's coming up, blah, blah, blah. So, you know, it's silly for me to assume that they know my character.

And all that was going on, I never had the chance to fully communicate to them, like, my needs as a performer. and it just kind of fell by the wayside. It happened to Mike Awesome. A lot of us, yeah. It happened to Lance. And Lance, my former Impact player, you know, got the T-shirt. You know, one of the best, you know.

Yeah. We're the best ever. And, yeah, so, you know, it's kind of come full circle for Lance. He's now back with WWA. Which is amazing. And honestly, for Lance, that's probably where he belongs. Because I went through the heart camp in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, of 1992.

He had gone through in 1991. And originally, Keith Hart and Bruce Hart was supposed to be the trainers. Realistically, they were there once a week. Lance was there every day. Wow. So Lance Storm really was my trainer. Wow. You know, and he's so good at and patient with young men and women in the business.

And he's with his Storm Wrestling Academy, which is now actually closed since he's going back to WWE. he's produced so many talented men and women that are hugely successful. Yeah. That's his true calling. Yeah, and to be clear, he's going to be a match producer in the interviewer. Yeah, absolutely. He's not signing with them.

No, no, not as a performer, but he was always, he's that good at communicating and having patience and developing talent and teaching and grooming since day ones. I mean, he's a prodigy, so I think this is going to be his true calling. I'm so happy for him. He's one of the nice guys in the world. Yeah.

And, you know, he's my brother, you know. When you look at the product now, do you see any shades of ECW there? In WWE? No, in NAW. Yes. But in a specific way, I see that they are, their style is different. And in some ways, I don't necessarily always like what they do. I feel sometimes it's very much repetitive to me.

I think they could do better storytelling for me as a fan. just a fan. But they have that, that, that rebellious attitude that, there's a spirit about AEW that is really, it's, it's catching on it. And especially with the millennials, with that 18 to 48 demographic that's so important. So, yeah, I do see some similarities. The one thing that they don't have, and I'm not being critical, but they need, there's, there's the, we had Paul, him. and Paul was just a crazy insane visionary

and he just threw a bunch of, and I'm not going to swear, but a bunch of... You can't do it. Well, a bunch of shit against the wall and whatever stuck stuck. Right. And I just think that they're finding their footing, their groove.

But yeah, there are a lot of things that are very similar and they have a huge opportunity. And I want nothing but for AEW to succeed because AEW succeeds, and they are succeeding and doing very well, pro wrestling succeeds. Sure.

It's good for everyone. We all work more, and it's more awareness to the business professional wrestling and the product. And we all gain because if you notice competition with WW. Competition is healthy. Yes. It makes everyone better, you know. And, you know, I do.

I think there's similarities. I think it's healthy. And it's exciting. I mean, like I said, I watch it more than once because I take notes and I have to review it. So, you know, yeah. You didn't say anything bad about me on there. Oh, dude, no, absolutely. Are you ribbing me?

No, not at all. I made a couple of appearances on there. No, not at all. Are you kidding me? No. But I have really high hopes for it. And I honestly think that they can do great things. And they have the talent.

MJF. He's out of Long Island. And I'm friends with Kurt Hawkins. And again, I just did a couple shows with him from his wrestling school. It was MJF's last indie show, and that kid's on fire. He's probably going to be one of the best heels in the next 10 years. Sure. You know, he's really geared up for that.

He's a very bright, very talented individual. There's lots more to get to in this conversation, but this episode is brought to you by Mudwater. I love Mudwater. I drink it every day now as part of my morning routine. And no, I'm not actually drinking mud. Mudwater is a coffee alternative made with four adaptogenic mushrooms. So it has just a fraction of the caffeine of a cup of coffee,

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Go to try miracle.com slash CVV. They're already on sale right now like 40% off. But if you use the promo code CVV at checkout, you'll get an additional 20% off and three free towels on top of that. So go to try miracle.com slash CVV and use that promo code CVV. I find it incredible that it's been almost 20 years since ECW, you know, went under. And fans are still channing ECW. And they're not chanting TNA, which is still around. They're not chanting WCW. They're not chanting Wrestling Society acts, Lucha, whatever. What is it about ECW? The 20 years later, people are still, you know, kind of clamoring for that. It's not the violence.

At first, like, a lot of people think if they don't, you know, at first, it was a unique time in pro wrestling because WWF at the time I was Aldo Montoya. The Mantar. They had the goon. They had horrible ginaw. You had a jockstrap on your face. Exactly. And on the WCW side, and no disrespect, but they had the dungeon of doom, hokey stuff, real cartoonish stuff.

And what ECW did wasn't necessarily so groundbreaking. They just did what they did back in time. Texas in the late 70s and the 80s. They just brought it back to, you know, we brought in guys like Kerry Funk and veterans that could work, that were in between and really brought back wrestling, which, especially in the city of Philadelphia,

they were clamoring for just real good, hardcore professional wrestling, which I feel is what AEW is trying to do. They're the next phase of, because everything evolves. Yeah. You know, ECW wouldn't work today the way we did it, because really, we were just, you know,

what made us cool was Shane Douglas would get on the mic and Barry Vince McMahon or Barry Eric Bischoff. And it's not about that. Today, it was just a unique time, but the spirit and the style. And, you know, when you hadn't seen blood and you hadn't seen barbed wire, and that was from Japan and all,

so much going on globally. And now I think with the Internet and social media and so much availability, it would be hard to replicate because we see so much. but I think the spirit is there, the work rate was. ECW, what extreme was was work rate. I know it meant blood to a lot of people. And it was in the beginning, but it meant also to Jerry and Super Crazy.

And working hard and 20, 30 minute matches. And, you know, that's what it was. It ended up being something completely different than what people kind of thought it was intended to be. And I think AEW, if done right, is headed in that direction. Tony Kahn's a very big ECW fan. He was, yeah. I couldn't believe when I heard that. Oh, yeah.

That is that it blows your mind, man. It's like, that's why to this day, when I meet a young man or a young lady at a show, I treat them with respect because you never know. Sure. Seriously, you never know, man. You may influence these people. And that's why I'm always try to be kind and grateful to have fans because someday they may end up being your boss. Coming from that extreme era, coming from ECHA. What did you think of John Mock's, Kenny Omega's lights outmatch?

Even for me, seeing what I've seen, I even cringed a little bit. What was the most cringe-worthy spots? Not to give much away, because I don't know any of the inner workings. I do not know the inner workings, but the glass, some of the barbed wire stuff. Even to me, I was like, you know, because I had never done that. that stuff. Yeah. Even me.

Yeah. I've done some barbed wire stuff with Dreamer and Sandman and so forth. It worked with Terry Funk, but not at that level. So I thought it was, uh, it would, I mean, but at the same time, it shows the passion and the giving in their all. And John Moxley's been waiting 10 years to do that. Oh, yeah. He's been, you know, and Omega is, is Kenny Omega, one of the best in the entire world.

Yeah. So, you know, yeah, but it was cringe-worthy, man. I watched it uncomfortably. Not because it freaked me out. I was just like, guys, don't get, like, I don't want to see nobody hurt themselves. You know what I mean? Yeah, God forbid.

We just had Moxley on the show, and he was showing me like scars on his hand. Yeah. That's from glass, that's from barbed wire. Yeah. Dude. Yeah, I may have run into him as when he was younger because he's from Jersey,

and I lived in Jersey from that area. I don't think I've ever met him. I think he's from Cincinnati. Oh, is you? Really? Yeah, I think so. Maybe because it's CZW. Yeah, maybe there.

Yeah. Sorry. But I don't think I've ever met him, but he's truly, man. He's got it, whatever it is. And he could be the next thing. Well, he really good. He's in line for a title shop from the looks of things. Yeah.

And Jericho. Brother, even me. And like I said, I came up, Jericho was a class behind me. And I think Chris was my fourth ever match. Wow. It's out there somewhere on YouTube. If you look it up, Rocky Mountain Pro Wrestling, 1992, P.J. Walker versus Chris Jericho. Wow.

Yes, he had long, big rock and roll hair. A lot thicker than it is today. And I actually had hair in front of 100 people. But anyways, he was my fourth ever match. But to see Chris today. And the way he, man, you hear his music, I still get goosebumps. He is so over. And the way he's commanding AEW, it's just like, they really, have something special, especially with

Jericho. Yeah. You know, and I, and at his age, and I'm not, not to diss the age because I'm old too. Well, bad word, but he's still doing it. He's still doing it at a high level. Well, he keeps reinventing himself. And he's brilliant. He is. Brilliant.

I mean, you've been, you know, you kind of went through a reinvention yourself, you know, with the help of Diamond Dallas Page. Yeah. You know, how much did he helped you kind of get out of what you were in. Man, just

Dallas is one of those guys where he will call you no matter what time, no matter how busy he is, and he makes you accountable and not to bust your balls, but literally, bro, what are you doing? You know, and you respect and love him, and he's like, he just cares about you.

It's like, you know, get to this. Get up off your ass. Come on, man. And he'll talk to you for 30 minutes or 30 seconds, whatever you need. And he'll give you that time. And it's amazing. I thought to myself at first, like, why is Dallas doing this?

Like, I don't even know him that well. Yeah. And he's just a very selfless guy. And I think he gets something out of it because I think he genuinely likes to help people. And it's not a work. I don't get nothing from, you know, I don't get nothing from saying that. But I think that's genuinely who Dallas Page is. And just keeping me accountable.

And, like, any time, like, he'll give you a call. Hey, man, how you doing? Checking in. almost like a sober buddy you know and i'm not always i'm not going to say i'm perfect i haven't done drugs in i haven't i was an opioid addict heroin addict haven't done that since 2011 but congratulations thank you but i have a problem with alcohol am i perfect no do i drink every day no i'm trying i'm working hard and it's not very easy all the time i'm not going to lie to anybody And nobody asked me this question, I'm being open, because somehow that relieves me to, you know, just to get it out there.

But I'm getting better. And having a purpose, like, you know, having people by your side and saying, like, dude, because the only reason I have a purpose is like, I love what I do. Like, you love what you do. Yeah. This is being around these great people, you know, it gives you reason to, well, I want to wake up and train them. Yeah. I want to do better tomorrow. Yeah.

And that's what it's all about. Yeah. And I think that's for me for a long time. What was missing was, you know, and I kind of, it's like that make you work in the wrestler. Like, you took, you took everything that we love away. And I think that was where the depression and the shit hit the fan. Sure. Now that it's coming back a little bit, is it, you know, every day gets better.

Why do you think alcohol is your vice? It's not my vice. Okay. Well, because, you know, I'm not going to buy illegal drugs. I don't have a doctor to take, you know what I mean? Okay. You know, I have to take urine tests. So, you know, and you don't feel dirty having a couple of, you know what I mean?

Sure. It's more accepted. Like, I can't smoke a pot, for example. I know a lot of people. It's legal in a lot of places. It's a probation thing? It's a probation. Yeah.

And even if it wasn't, I wouldn't do pills or anything of that nature. But, you know, it's just, it's legal. If you're having a bad day, it's much easier to go to the liquor store and get some beer. You know, I'm saying? And again, it's no justification whatsoever. But it's just more, you don't feel dirty. You're not doing a backdoor deal to get something you shouldn't. Sure.

You know, and I guess that's the easiest way to kind of say it. Yeah, yeah. I know it sounds like it's a cop-out in some ways. But it's, you know, you rationalize, you know. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Klinemberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking.

I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. With the opioids, at what point did you realize that there was a problem? Oh, man, that's a great, and I have a great answer.

2001, after I signed with WWE, I had a couple weeks off. My son was turning one years old. Me and my mom, my wife, my dad, and my son went to Wildwood, New Jersey, to the beach, to the boardwalk. And we were ready to leave from Connecticut. It's about a four-hour ride. My wife says, hey, babe, you don't have any more Vicodin? Do you want me to call a doctor, get a refill? Like, no, I'm not wrestling.

Don't need it. Seriously, legitimately as stupid and innocent as I could say. No, I'm not wrestling. I'm cool. Well, I get down there, you know, fine. First night, man, Jill, is it a little, my wife's name is Jill. It's a little hot in here. I can't sleep, man.

Maybe it's the bed. A little nauseous. You know, man, take a shower, whatever. Then the next morning, you know, my wife's a little hot. You know, diarrhea, a little vomiting. Third day, I'm starting to cry for no reason, getting very emotional and very sick. Fourth day, I was cracking. I was, like, shaking and shivering, came in sleep.

Called my docs. I'm like, Doc, what's wrong with me? I don't know what's wrong. And he goes, well, do you have your medication? I know. I just didn't feel. He goes, okay, called it in, took a couple pills. Wow.

Normal. I wasn't even getting high anymore. I was just getting normal. Wow. And I didn't realize, wow, and then, like, light bulb, because I never was big into drugs. It was like light bulb, physical addiction. And I like a lot of people in a lot of professional sports, pro wrestling, whatever. You know, you get hurt, and you're, you know, you got to keep going.

Yeah. And they used to give it to you. They don't anymore, thank God. It's a lot more restricted. But back then, they just give it to you. And it took me down a road. It took me down a real bad road. That was 2001.

Yeah. And you didn't get clean on that. until 2011. It was 10 years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It was a battle.

It was a battle. And, you know, and it was, every day was where are you going to get your name? You know, I was running prescriptions from different doctors, different pharmacies. And what really happened when Chris Benoit happened, Vincent sent out letters kind of to everybody. And the doctors cut everybody off. So then that's where, I can't believe I'm saying this to everybody. that's when, you know, doctors cut people off. And then it's like, well, where am I going to?

I still got to go to work. Sure. I'm going to be sick. Yeah. And you're buying it off of, you know, not the streets, like, you know, on the corner, but, you know, you might know John, you know, down the road that has something. And once that dries up, you know, one day somebody's like, well, you ever do heroin? Yeah.

I'm like, no? Well, it's kind of like, well, okay, I'm sick. and then went that way. Wow. And thankfully, again, I'm not trying to put WWE over, but through their recovery program, they put me in treatment. And, you know, ever since, you know.

But that was, you know. They took good care of stuff. That was big for you, though, to go, I have a problem here. You call up WWE and said, can you guys take care of it? I didn't want, I couldn't live like that anymore. Yeah. Not with that.

And WWE, you know, they took care of everything. Yeah, they took care of everything. And more than once. Wow. More than once, because I went back to treatment for alcohol in 2017, and they took care of that as well. World-class places, too. How long are you actually in rehab for?

I've done a couple stints, 28 days. Okay. 28 days. And after 28 days, you're fine? Well, no. No, it's, you know, you got to do, they say to good, do meetings, maybe therapy once a week. You know, it's forever a struggle,

because when you take drugs or alcohol to that level, your brain chemistry is off. You know, your dopamine, your endorphins. They're very low, even though you're not addicted physically, you're still lacking in, you know, you're miserable. You're not happy, and you don't know why. And it's almost like a very much of a deep depression. It takes sometimes a year to build that back up in your body.

So it was a very difficult time. It was really, really hard in trying to mask it. Well, a mask is not a good word, but to hide it from the world out of shame, guilt, whatever. You know, and you don't want to let anybody know. So you just try to truck along and get by any way you can. But your marriage withstood this. Oh, yeah, married. Very impressive.

To a beautiful wife for 23 years, man, since 1997. You know, still going strong. Three beautiful kids. My oldest is a sophomore at Rutgers University. Wow. Congratulations. You know, and, you know, two other beautiful children with her. And yeah, still going strong.

But it's great to see, you know, after hearing all of that, it's great to see where you're at now. Yeah, I mean... You seem like you're in a great frame of mind now. I've realized now, especially the older I get, you know, all of this could be gone in a minute. And we're a very unique time in wrestling where there's so much out there for us.

And again, it's what makes me happy. And my therapist has said this to me, too. You've got to look for other things to make... And, of course, my family is my driving. force. But, you know, we're driven people. We're goal-oriented people. So, like, you know, you've got to find stuff to go after. So I got to just keep setting goals, whether they're in the business or outside the business, you know. And I just, right now, I just have a certain frame of mind where, you know, I only have a couple years left as an active performer. I just

want to go out on my terms in a positive way. I don't want to waste a career in a negative light. You know, I just want to make this right. And going forward, of course, Not just for wrestling, but, you know, for me, because it's something I hold so near and dear, I just want to make it right. Yeah. You know? Do you have a certain person that you want to have that final match with? No. No.

I, well, if I got to have a final match with anybody. Sure, anybody. It would probably be Tommy Dreamer. Yeah. And the funny thing is, and if he's listening and watching, we've already had this retirement match a couple years ago. in Sayerville, New Jersey. But if there was anybody, it would be him. Do you still keep in touch with Polly, at Paul Heyman?

I have not. I haven't taught. And there's no heat at all, no, no, you know, he's a busy guy. And, you know, it's weird sometimes in this business. There's so many of us, there's a disconnect, you know. And I haven't talked to him probably in five or six years. While there's a disconnect, you sat at a table here with Raven, Salmon, Shane Douglas, Rino. Yeah, those are the guys.

That's badass to see all you guys together. But when I see those guys, it's honestly like no time has passed. You know, I wrestled Shane Douglas two weeks ago. So that's a little bit. I see Shane quite a bit. But I haven't seen Raven in over a decade. Wow. I haven't seen Rhino in probably the same amount of time.

Mikey, I see quite often. Again, a lot of it's locally where we live and do independent wrestling. But nonetheless, man, it's like when you see each other, it's like no time has passed. And you love those people. There really is an honest. and especially with the ECW guys. And I've seen this, and everybody talks about it that's involved in it. You don't get it with the WWE.

You don't get it with other groups, TNA, and I've worked for all of them. Something in ECW, those three, four years, because it was almost like we were a band of brothers. Like, we were in this fight. Like, not a physical fight, but in this, we wanted to just make a mark. And, you know, that's something that only we know. Oh, yeah. And when we see each other, it's like, literally, your brother, your best friend, you know, and I love these guys, you know.

I'm telling you, I have said this as Sandman, if we had a, like, what we're doing right now, if we put that in the car, and just for the conversations we have. Yeah. Just silly stories, funny stories. I think you've got an idea. That's a reality show, dude. I've said it to people, nobody listens. Well, you can just put it on YouTube. I know.

I got to get these knuckleheads to do. Just, you know. Put your phone at the front, hit record, and do your thing. It's amazing. Just the stories, the silly stories. The stories of Terry Funk and Saboo and, you know, and weird stories about hotel rooms and certain groupies. Just all over the place.

I don't want to get too graphic. But, you know, just fun, crazy, rock and roll, ECW-style stuff that I think would be gold. Those were the days. Yeah, and it was fun days. You know, looking back, those were the best days. And I hate to say that because I hope to my... tomorrow will be better than today. But those are the best days of a lot of our lives, professionally at least.

Professionally. But the crazy thing is you've got another 40, 50, 60, 70 years in front of you to do and create whatever it is you want to do. Sure. You know? Do you have ideas for what you want to do? I really, I really enjoy podcasting. And not necessarily in the pro wrestling field.

You know, Joe Rogan, of course. Yeah, of course. I love the Joe Rogan podcast. And, man, I just would love to have disclosings. course in conversation about politics, society, music, art. I'm into so many diverse things. How do you get, you know, because people want to talk about wrestling, and there are so many wrestling podcasts available, it's hard to make a mark in that territory.

I would just someday like to find a little niche in that, and in other things, you know, but right now I'm just, you know, I'm still looking for it, though. That part of my journey I've not found yet, where my next, part of life is going to be. You know, somebody told me the other day, and I think Dallas has said this to me, too, you'd be a great recovery coach if you can get your ass sober. Like, because they say you shouldn't really do that stuff if you don't have a year. I certainly don't have a year.

That's true. That's honest to God. But you could, you know? If I want to take it seriously. And I thought about that because my story is so unique. Yeah. Look what Mark Merro is doing. Yeah.

Just helping other people. And the woman that I go to the center, you know, that helps me with that stuff. I go every two weeks. And she said, that would be something really good for you if you thought about it. And I was like, I never thought about that. And Dallas said it too. And I was like, oh, maybe somewhere down the line if, you know, you're not supposed to say it's going to happen, but you're supposed to say one day at a time because that's true.

Right. You know, and hopefully that comes to fruition. And if I want it to happen, it will come to. If you chased after this with the same drive that you had to get into wrestling, to get into WWE, then to get into ECW, become world champion, you can absolutely become the world champion of this too. Absolutely. I feel it's totally attainable.

I just, you know, I just got to stay focused. I really do, you know. And sometimes life kicks you in the ass, you know, whether it's finances, whether it's, you know, whatever happens in life, you know, your car breaks down, you get it, you know, something happens. Sometimes those are those triggers that make you go, but yeah, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.

When you talk about, you know, arts and films and all that kind of stuff, are there certain, you know, books you're reading or stuff like that? Right now I'm reading, I like self-help books. Right now I'm reading Tony Robbins, Awaken the Giant Within. That's a classic. Big self-help guy. I love that. And actually, Dallas sent me his book, Unstoppable.

That book's incredible. Yeah, I haven't finished that yet. But I, you know, and I love, right now I'm watching the Irishman. I started, it's a three and a half hour film. It's a marathon, yeah. Yeah, the Scorsese film with Pacino and De Niro. But I haven't got through that yet. Hopefully I get through that tonight.

But I'm just all over the play. I love music, man. I love music. And I'm actually doing a one thing real quick. I'm doing a small independent promotion called Battlefront Pro Wrestling Extreme. We only run once every two months in Connecticut. And I work with the band. They're signed to a legitimate label called Crossing Rubicon.

They actually did a video featuring me a full-length music video called Seeing Red. It's on YouTube. Super cool, shop professionally. And what we're doing is we're doing five matches and we're having bands play, but like real bands that are signed to deals and, like, you know, local. Yeah, play the entrance themes? Yeah, and like just something that's different. We're just trying.

And again, it's a low budget. But just something, again, like a passion practice. project, something that's not, you know, it's not going to change the world. But a local thing that we're just trying to do to have some fun and see if it sticks. Yeah. You know. You're very much an entrepreneur. You know, you're working for yourself.

I try, yeah. I really try, you know. And that's all, you know, that's what pro wrestling has been for me my whole life. I've been, you know, self-employed. Yeah. You know, I've been my own business. So, you know, yeah, I just, you know, but also because I love what I do. Yeah.

I love to create. And I love, because when it's right, there's nothing better in the world. world. Yeah. Even sitting here talking to you, I'm having a great time. Like, sometimes interviews are really painstaking, but I'm getting to, I feel like I'm getting to communicate to not just yourself, but to the people. Yeah.

And you have a broad audience, my feelings, my life, and kind of where I've been. So, you know, it's all positive. I think that, you know, there's a certain demographic that's watching this right now that hasn't seen you since either ECW or since WW. Well, a lot of the kids, that's the whole thing, too. that's the biggest problem for me, I feel, and a lot of us guys, ECW has been long gone. The kids coming up today don't know it other than the WW network, if they so chose, to go on and watch ECW. So you're really fighting an uphill battle to rebrand and somewhat reintroduce yourself to the young, you know, the millennials.

Well, let's help them out, you know, for the ECW fans that are watching or for the people who maybe want to tune into some ECW. Sure. What is the greatest just incredible match of all time? Wow, that's a handful. I'll give you two and I'll do them quick. Me and Sabu, Anarchy Rules, 1999, Chicago, Illinois. That was one of my favorites. Incredible.

And Jerry Lynn's going to get mad at me. But another one was me and Shane Douglas, 1998 from the ECW Arena. What is the greatest ECW pay-per-view of all time? Heatwave 97. Dayton, Ohio. And that's why Jerry Lynn's going to get mad at me. Because Jerry Lynn and I were the opening match. And we were just in Dayton, Ohio, a couple days ago.

And the arena we were sold out was the old Harrow Arena, which they tore down this year. But it was just top to bottom. I feel like that's what every ECW fan says. So to hear you say that that was your favorite. It was a special for me. And those are my bucket. And, you know, I hate to say that because, like, I never have any WWS stuff in there. It's like almost like I can't, you know, I burned out early.

It's like I was 25, 26 when I was half. in those matches. Right? You know, so it's kind of like, man, I, you know, but anyways. Whose idea was it for Aldo Montoya to have, what you had in your face? Well, originally, the reason they even offered me the Aldo job was I lived in Connecticut and the office is in Stanford. Sure.

And I was doing jobs and I was, you know, good at what I did. Brian Lee was coming in to do the faker taker gimmick. and they didn't have a performance center at the time. They just had a ring set up in their old warehouse. And I literally, they hired me for five days to go work with Brian Lee and Mark, Undertaker, to do the fake Undertaker. I was just basically a crash test dummy. Okay. Well, on Friday, full dress rehearsals, Vince McMahon and Paterson came down.

So it was just us, a couple guys, you know, four or five guys going through the motions. And then Paterson, you know, it all went very well. going to wrestle him live on raw the next week. And Vince and Pat started asking me questions. Like, who trained you? I was like, well, the hearts. Really? Brett was there. One was there. You know, there was a connection.

What language are? You know, where nationality are? I'm Portuguese, sir. Portuguese, really? Do you speak it? I'm like, well, yes, sir, I do. Oh, they popped. The whole time they were looking for a Portuguese character because business was bad in America. So they wanted to go

overseas to Portugal, but also Brazil, because Brazil, 75% of South America, and that's what they speak. And the Aldo Montoya, a lot of people don't know this, was originally sketched by creative as a soccer player because the World Cup was around in 95. So Aldo was supposed to be a soccer player. And then they scratched out. It made me look like, and if you saw the original Aldo,

I looked like I had road warrior shoulder pads, like a badass Adonis. And when they handed me that stuff two hours before I went out there on Raw. my debut, it looked nothing like you. Oh, no. But nonetheless, it was a great opportunity. You brought it back recently, didn't you? Well, just as, just to do a retro thing.

People ask, and, you know, not to do it in a serious manner, but almost in a tongue-in-cheek way. Sure, yeah. You know what I mean? How wrestling is now. You know, hey, why not? I haven't done it yet, believe it or not. Nobody's actually wanted me to do it. But I have a couple T-shirts out on pros and teas and, you know, hey, if somebody wants to do it,

I have it with me today. So, you know, just, again, if somebody wants to take a picture, why not, dude? You know, just, again, trying to just stay out there and do something different. I want to say... I know. It's a great note to end on, though. I want to say thank you for taking the time to do this. Oh, thank you, sir.

I appreciate it so much. We'd been texting for a while to make this happen. Yeah. And now we're in the same place at the same time. It's awesome. Couldn't have worked out better. And I'm so grateful. Thank you for having me on your show, man.

Of course. And, you know, where can people find you? On Twitter at PJ Polako, also on Instagram. Same thing, at PJ Polako. And I got a great YouTube channel with great instructional videos called Pro Wrestling 101. Just go to YouTube and put that on the search engine. And that's pretty much good. And then your podcast, too.

And my podcast with Vince Rousseau? Well, podcasts, yes. I hate this podcast is Apple, iTunes, that whole thing. And Vince Rousseau's podcast, Talking Elite, is Patreon.com, backslash Rousseau, T, WC. And that's pretty much it. It's just great to see where you're at now, knowing, you know, where you were, you know, 10-ish years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very grateful, man. I'm grateful to be here. And, you know, Winston-Salem is a great, there's like a high school reunion to be around

all these great guys and send your friends. And, you know, now I've got to wrestle in a couple of minutes. So that's another one. But I, you know. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chris. It was my pleasure, sir. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. All right, my friends. That interview wasn't just the coolest. It wasn't just the best. That interview, my friends, was just incredible. Hope you enjoyed that.

And even though that was three plus years ago, I just feel like so much of what we talked about there still holds up. That's why I reared this episode. You know, we re-air like one or two a month because, if I'm being honest, for my fellow creators that are listening right now, we do two episodes a week, at least, sometimes three. So, you know, extrapolate that out over the course of the whole year. It's a lot, 104 episodes, 104 interviews, 104 guests.

It's tough to get that many, right? So I think like ones like this, this is one of those hidden gems that I talked about at the start of the episode that maybe if you're a new-ish listener, like last few months for sure or last few years, maybe you didn't hear this one. Maybe you didn't see it on YouTube. So I hope that you enjoyed it now. and I hope you enjoyed it enough to snap a screenshot and to share it out. And tag PJ. Tag PJ Polako, that's his real name. He's going to be like, oh my gosh, wow, this is so great that people are listening to this

interview from so long ago. Tag me as well at Chris Van Fleet. Speaking of Twitter, I tweeted this out, and I think it's just such a great phrase, so pertinent. And I hope that this one really resonates with you. Clapping for others does not take away from your own success. I love seeing my friends win. I love seeing everybody win. So clap for everybody else as they're on their way up

because they are going to be clapping for you on your way up too. I'm clapping for you. And I've teased this a little bit. I've talked about it a little bit. If you are a fellow creator, we're building out something really special. It's called full-time creator. Going to be launching in like a week and a half.

September 19th is the official launch. So if you are a creator, who is so tired of putting out stuff that nobody sees or putting out stuff that you've never, ever even made $1 on, we are here to help. So full-time creator is something to keep an eye out for in the next week and a half or so.

Be great, be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all.

Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom.

Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.