Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Karrion Kross On Creating His WWE Character, What's Next For Him, AEW, Scarlett Bordeaux

Episode Date: January 11, 2022

Killer Kross (@realkillerkross) is a wrestler FKA Karrion Kross in WWE. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about what lead him to sign with NXT over AEW and NJPW. They also talk about winning the NXT Championship with a separated shoulder, his fiancee Scarlett Bordeaux, advice from Jon Moxley, his infamous main roster run in WWE, inspiration from director Christopher Nolan films and more! Grab Your NordVPN Deal by going to https://nordvpn.com/cvv or use code CVV to get up to 73% off your NordVPN Plan + a bonus gift. Act fast because this offer is for a limited time only! If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. For more information about CVV and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Berlin! What is going on, my friends? Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV Chris Van Fleet, and are you ready for this one? Like, are you truly ready for this? It's such a good conversation.

It's been a little over two years since the last time we talked to Killer Cross. Kevin Cross was definitely before he was Hary and Cross. Back then, he was. just leaving Impact Wrestling, and he was going to see where he wanted to sign with Next. He ended up going to WWE and had an amazing career in NXT, but kind of fell apart when he got to the main roster, and he digs into that a little bit more.

We talk about it all. And we also talk about films and filmmaking. Went down quite a rabbit hole there. I feel like I could talk to him for hours about filmmaking. He's just such a fascinating guy, and this is a fascinating conversation. you definitely see a very different side of him than you saw with his character work with WWE.

Give him a follow on social media. He's at Real Killer Cross. If you're not following me already, I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and I would hope that you're following the show, but if not, it'd be awesome if you could grab your phone right now and hit follow or subscribe wherever you're listening to this.

Our fan of the week is Goofy Fernandez-200, who says, Beast, Chris Van Fleet, Chris, Chris Van Fleet, the mecha of interviews. That's what it says. If you remember when I did that interview with the Youngbox, Chris VanVleet, the elite, the elite. I read one review on every single episode. So if you have an iPhone, I'd be so grateful if you could take a second right now

and leave a review on there. And I read one out as my way to say, thank you for being on this journey with me. Also, Spotify has a rating system now. So if you could go in there, click on the show, and then click on the five stars, that'd be so awesome. Also, if you follow me on Instagram,

you've probably seen that I've been traveling a lot lately. I was actually just back home in Canada for Christmas, where it was minus 27 degrees Fahrenheit with the windshield. Yeah. As you know, when you travel, public Wi-Fi is notorious

for being a hotbed for hackers to steal data, and I use NordVPN because it helps me protect from hackers and just gives me peace of mind when I'm traveling. So easy to set up on your phone or your computer, and it's super fast. And you could also access content from 59 countries by changing your virtual location with just one click. So I'll let you in on something with that.

Of course, you can watch Hulu and Netflix and HBO Max in other countries, but I've recently been using it so I can still access the WWE network instead of watching it on Peacock. Because I think a lot of people would tell you, that the content's better on the WWE network than Peacock. And even though I live in the U.S., I still have the WWE network. Mm-hmm.

Grab your holiday season deal that they have going on right now by going to NordVPN.com slash CVV or just use the code, CVV, you'll get up to 73% off your NordVPN plan and a bonus gift. They also have a 30-day money-back guarantee right now. So if you're not sure about VPN or you just want to give it a try and see what it's all about, you can get your money back if it's not for you.

Again, NordvPN.com slash CVV, and if you're interested, take advantage of this deal now because it's only here for a limited time. NordVPN.com slash CVV,

and the link is also in the show notes. All right, let's get to it. Please welcome Carian Cross, aka Killer Cross. Well, so good to see you again, my friend. And you as well. I think people are like blown away more than anything by the fact that you have hair now.

Oh, my God. It's nonstop. Is it that people didn't think you had hair? That's why you were just shaving your head because you didn't have hair? I think it's a mixed bag of, you know, perceptions and opinions on the subject. I mean, you know this about me because we talked with this last time. I've become very committed to character work, you know? And I thought the character would be best presented and suited as bald because there's a lot of character patterns and behavioral personality traits associated with people that shave their head.

You know, like it's you can't style it. You can't put product in it. You know, for someone who is tactical, for someone who doesn't care to participate in society and certain levels of, you know, social dynamics, they would shave their head because they're going in. for war, going in for combat or something like that. I felt that the character presentation at the time would not be concerned at all with having hair. I would go that deep into it. So I went to a lot of acting workshops and stuff like that and watched stuff online about how professional actors and stuff that would approach their craft. And I love wrestling and I want to be, you know, the best version of myself. So I would apply that stuff I would learn into, you know, into what I was

doing. Yeah. And I think one of the biggest things that people took out of our last conversation, which was over two years ago, that's crazy to think about. But I think one of the biggest things people took out was your commitment to the character and the way that you looked at wrestling as an art form rather than I think some people look at it more of a like a sport and you were like really into like the character work. Yeah, totally. And to me, to me it's all of that. You know, some people put themselves in very specific lanes of what this is to them or what it's supposed to be or what it should be. I think it's comprised of many lanes. That's the place that I come from. with this. I think you're going to wind up, not you, not you specifically, but you in generalities

speaking. I think a person can like wind up frustrated themselves in this industry or out of this industry if they try to over define exactly what this is because like I said, it just encompasses so much. Yeah. So last time we spoke, it was September 2019. It was right. It was all out weekend in Chicago. And you had a lot of options before you at that point. Like you were just figuring stuff out with impact wrestling. That was just coming to an end. And I feel like a lot of people were like, he's going to go to AEW. Was that ever an option?

Yes. Yes, it was. Man, I don't know if you'll remember this because I can't believe it's been this long. I really can't believe it. So right around that time, I was trying to swerve people as to where I was going to go. Because at the time when I put the post down on Twitter, I already knew. and I was trying my absolute best to protect that as much as I could, you know, try to protect your work.

And so I was like, hey, what would you like to see me next? And it was an overwhelming amount of people that said that they wanted to see me go to AEW. And I was like, you know, I had that Peter Griffin moment. I was like, and so I don't know, like, I know there was a lot of different ways to look at that. But one way I looked at it was like, it kind of pissed me off. And this is my own doing. I understand that it wasn't meant to be this way, but I thought to myself at a time when I saw an overwhelming amount of people

wanted me to go to AEW versus WW or New Japan, I was like, well, why are people so convinced that I would find much more success in AEW versus WW? Did they think that I can't become successful in WWB? Did they believe that? I was going to show them that I can and I will. And, you know, I was already, you know, a done deal pretty much at that time, sort of.

But I understand, you know, as time went on, that they weren't saying it in a resentful manner. They were saying it because they thought that I would probably be able to find the best version of myself there, right? So what was the, like, what finally made you decide WWE or NXT specifically is the place where I know I could go and succeed? Well, I feel like there's a lot of people out there who are going to relate with this, and there's a lot of people who are not going to relate with this. But I want to be honest with you.

I was honest with you last time. I'm honest with you. I knew since I was a little kid when I was watching this on TV that I could be there and I could do this and perform at the highest level. I knew that since I was a little kid. And little kids think they know everything. So it's hard for your parents, your family and your friends to really get behind statements and these ideas that you have as a child

because they want to steer you in the right direction. They don't want to burst your bubble, but like as time went on, nobody in my family was ever doing anything like this. They lived in a very practical world, very realistic, and, you know, they would go for what they knew that they could, you know, essentially get and they would work hard for it. So this seemed like, you know, these people are on TV. What are you going to do?

Climbide the television and be with them. Like it just seemed like such a foreign idea to get involved with that. But to me, I'm telling you, man, I had, I sold something here as a kid that told me that I could do it. and it was the first thing I ever watched was WWF, WWV. And part of me always wanted to be there. I went to a wrestling school initially in order to learn how to do this at the highest level to go there. And over the years, you know,

I would meet people that would discourage me from doing that or I would feel differently about it or I'd see something and I was wondering, you know, can I hang with these people? Can I do this? And you find places that you're working and that you really love independently. And, you know, it's finally I just really got committed into making the decision to take it seriously and pursue it.

And when I did that happen, I mean, you mentioned on Renee's podcast that it was John Moxley, who was kind of like, you can do this. Like, you can go to WWE and you can be really successful there. Yeah, I really, man, I really needed to hear that. And that feeling that I had since I was a kid, I let people subconsciously chip away at that. And I feel like that happens to all of us, different things in life. And we want to do something. And we, for some reason, for some sort of validation or for some sort of level of confidence or reinforcement, we ask her friends or we ask family, hey, do you think it'd be good at this? And that's not always the best thing to do.

I mean, sure, everyone would love a support system, but I think I just, I let the wrong people, and that wasn't necessarily their malicious intention to take away from that feeling I had, but man, I got really far away from something I was absolutely certain of. And when he said that to me, I was like, I read people very quickly, and this is not a lip service guy. He could absolutely not care whether I'm going to go or not. He's telling me because he really thinks that. So I was like, I need to listen to this. This is a message from the universe right now, and I need to pay attention for this.

It's a really interesting idea because when you're a kid, you can tell your parents, your friends, your family, I want to insert anything here. And they'll go, great, of course, Kevin. You can do that for sure. Something happens as we get into our adolescent years where it's like, well, are you sure that sounds like a lot of work? Or are you sure that sounds like a lot of money? And it's almost like they're seeing, like sewing these seeds of doubt in our mind.

Yeah. And it's like, you know, the big question that I guess would be different from person to person. I was like, what was their intention of telling you that? Was the intention to put you on a course that they absolutely felt like you were going to bat 100 on and knock it out of the park? Like everybody's parents usually wants that peace of mind to know, God, you know, one day when I'm not here anymore, I hope in my final moments, I'm not going to be concerned about whether my kids can take care of themselves and their family. right so i think it comes that that source it comes from that place that's why they want to put you on a road that you know has this little you know potential failure as possible and becoming a professional wrestler especially two men in the 90s they had all those hit pieces and on in television and news who's going to want their kid to go do that yeah so you sent a text message to triple h after that like

Like, did Moxley give you Triple H's number and go, here, reach out. Good luck. He did. He did. And I waited for the appropriate time to contact him. And like I said, I was on the subway at the time. But like I spoke to him. And it was a super pleasant conversation.

And I did have a correspondence over the years periodically with WWA on and off for background work or like triumphs and stuff like that. But I really felt like that was, I mean, that was the conversation that I think really cemented a lot of different things and just having the ability to get to know them and understand what it is exactly that he was looking for and I felt like I just I had a feeling that this man based on what he was producing was looking for people who were 110% and then some and then some and I was like that's I'm not going to wait to be told I'm going to bring everything I've done become fully committed to this and embrace the process and it was really funny too like I

I told you was trying to protect that I had gotten signed there. And I was very concerned about people accidentally stooging this off. So the first I went to MC, I put on a luchador mask when I walked in. So I'm going to three-piece with a lucha mask. I used to travel with a luch-or-mast when I went to Mexico because sometimes fans or, like, media would be at the airport. And if there's a car outside, you can only, you know, mess around so much of people. you need to get outside and get the car. So I would put the mask on sometimes

when I was going around in the airport and stuff like that. And I showed there, I see the mask. And I'm walking up and I was like, I wonder if he's going to recognize me. This might be really weird. I have to get this close to him to be like, hey, it's me. And then did you finally pull it off? It's me.

I should have. I think he just knew because it was probably the weirdest thing in there. He just, he was busy with somebody and he looked. I just started laughing and then I started laughing. And I walked up to my Shigasana. I said, sorry, man, I just really want to protect this as much as I can. And I want some of him to dogging it off. And he laughed and he goes, I appreciate your commitment to this.

So we're standing there and we're about to go walk off. And I was like, do you mind if I bake this off? I feel like a complete asshole. He started laughing. He's like, of course, take it off. So, but I just thought it would be funny icebreaker to do. I feel like you either endeared yourself a lot to Triple H or somebody else because you moved up the ranks in that.

NXT light lightning fast. Yeah. I don't like it I had such an awesome experience there. I don't know how else to put it. Like I was introduced to the entire chain of command of everyone I basically had to answer to and I asked a lot of questions. I wanted to understand the operation at every level I possibly could. If there was any time or ability for me to go into the truck and listen to what's going on in

the truck and watch the show from, you know, a producer standpoint, what sort of camera. angles that are calling for. I really wanted to learn as much about this whole thing as I possibly could. I even recreationally would research what the company was doing outside of what we were directly involved with, who they're working with, where they're trading, what's going on globally and stuff like that. Like I said, I wasn't waiting to be told exactly what I need to do. And I just thought to myself, I bet the people at the top of the food chain in this industry who were all aspiring to be working with probably did this or someone smarten them up to it. I was like, I'm going to get ahead of this, and I really want to know this.

I don't want to be somebody here who's like, you know, in a privileged position or something. I want to earn every single step I'm going to be given. And if I'm asked a question, I don't want to say, I don't want to say, I don't know. Is that a common thing to ask to go into the truck? I don't know. I didn't think about it. I just, I could see that going either way. And, you know, this is from the outside looking at.

I could either see that going, he's really eager to learn, or I could see them. being like, he wants to learn too much. This is strange. This is weird. This has never happened before. That did occur to me. But I just rolled the dice and I was like, I don't cross my figures on this thing.

Things that I'm like trespassing into, you know, territory or something. But it was, it was received comfortably by everybody there. So I was like, okay, cool. And I would always talk to the cameraman. I'd always try to find out where they were and what they were shooting. I'd always try to analyze everything I could. I think all of us, I don't know, I would speak for myself. I would imagine all of us, but I'll speak to myself.

I was always trying to find and have the perfect match every time I went out there. And I feel like a lot of pro-wrestlers, if they're not consciously aware of that, some consciously I think they are too. So any sort of edge I could get in order to have that, whether it's a listening or an emotional response to the audience or finding the best camera for the best shot on the best position, I was constantly looking for that all the time. I'm curious. Did you ever do that when you were an impact wrestling?

No. So what would be, from an in-ring performer's standpoint, what's the biggest difference between the type of wrestling you see in NXT and the type of wrestling that you see in Impact Wrestling? Respectfully, it just feels like a completely different operation. I mean, NXT is, there's more hands on deck to put it politely. There's a lot more moving parts. The days are much longer, not in a bad way.

It's just you arrive early and there's a lot of things to do. You've got pre-tapes, scripts will switch. You maybe needed to improv. God forbid somebody gets hurt, you've got to go on early or to switch something. There's just, I never really had encountered stuff like that prior to working there. And that, you know, before I was even working on the roster, I would always show up the TV and I would sit back at my own business and I would just watch things on ground on. see, you know, the speed that everybody's working at, not to eavesdrop, but to politely listen in

on how people are communicating what sort of verbs you're using. Just try to learn the lingo. And so when they call your number, the transition makes sense and you're, you know, a pleasure to work with. Yeah. And I feel like your debut was like lightning in a bottle. You've got a great look, amazing entrance music. You've got scarlet by your side. And then they put you on this winning streak. Like you were set up to succeed in the best possible way. Yeah, it was amazing, man. And I got the best people to absolutely work with. The only thing I, the only two things I, you know, and I'm grateful for it all,

I just wish the two things I had was full attendance. And I wish we had an XT out shows. I really do. I would, I just wish that I could have got a little bit more time with people. Some people were so fun to work with men. And then, you know, when you get out of the rain, you realize there, you know, these equations start going off in your head of a dozen. different ways to do things, it's better. And oftentimes, aside from Finn, I didn't get to

revisit people I really enjoyed working with. But yeah, it was awesome. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens, which is a super important part of my morning routine. With one scoop of athletic greens, you get 75 high-quality vitamins, whole food source superfoods, and probiotics to help you start your day right. This special blend of ingredients supports your gut health, your nervous system, your immune system, your energy, recovery, focus, aging, all the things. And best of all, it tastes amazing and it's really helped with better sleep quality and recovery for me. Whether you eat keto, paleo, vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free, whatever it is, it fits right into your diet. Look, lots of people take some kind of multivitamin,

and I think it's important to choose one with high-quality ingredients that your body will act. actually absorb. That's why I drink Athletic Greens every morning. And that's why it's recommended by professional athletes in all kinds of different sports. Right now, it's time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition, especially since it's cold and flu season right now. It's just one scoop in a cup of water every day. That's it. No need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health. And to make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a free one-year supply of immune-supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athletic greens.com

slash insight. Again, that's athletic greens.com slash insight to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. Athletic Greens. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Klinenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity.

All the guys are wanting to really take their claimant, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. I want to talk about the championship match where you win the

the NXT title. At what point do you realize, oh, I might be really hurt here. I was in denial about it. So, you know, it was like a, it was a simple bump. I really just to this day can't tell you what exactly happened. Maybe it's the accumulation of things over time. I don't know. It was just super unusual. Just our, you know, our rhythm was off that night. And it can happen to anybody and I don't know as soon as I began passing the middle of the ring I knew something was going to go wrong and it did it's hard to explain but as soon as I landed I literally my whole my whole mind went in slow motion I had a very very strange experience it made a strange noise I can't tell

exactly what kind of noise was it was like a crunch and when that adrenaline's going you could run through a wall so it made a crunch and then like I felt something move, I felt something shift. And I was like, no, I'm not going to let them see that in the truck. I'm shoving that back in. So I grab it and try to like rub it back in. My fear right now is something is wrong. We're going to stop the match.

I was like, no way. I'm shoving it back in. I'm winning the championship. Yes. I was like, you know, so many years to get to this one night and this happens. So I try to shove it back in, doesn't go in. And I was like, oh, damn. So I sit up and I roll my shoulder forward a little bit just to,

see if it comes out and sure enough it's sticking out like you know i was like i was like no man i was like oh the referee asked me if i was all right and i said yep i'm doing i because i just it was so much man and like i i i can i can tell you all the things that i thought about in that moment that happened but ultimately um the main thing was to just i was like i'm persevering through this it occurred to me immediately that this was an opportunity to show people that you can tell people how tough you are all you want on TV every single week. Some may believe it some might not. This is an opportunity to show your peers. All the people that have put equity into you and the people watching your home how tough you actually really are. Because now this is some serious shit. And now you've got

prove it. You really got to prove it. So I took it as an opportunity to do that. So you win the title, then you go to the back and you're probably like, well, I likely won't be defending this anytime soon, or did you think you could somehow work through this? It was slowly creeping into me and I was getting so upset, man. So what happened after the match, Hunter, Road Dog, Johnny Russo had walked up to me in the middle of stage before I get back there and they just walked up to me and I saw the look on their face and I was like it's worse than I think because like it was just on them you know what I mean and um I was just becoming like perpetually devastated and then they had they had to walk my name because it was Keith's last night

and so I'm of course playing it down I'm like I'll be fine you know what I mean so they're not overly concerned but there's enough human concern there and they did Keith's farewell speech in the ring with everybody out there. And I didn't want to be rude. So I stood there with my shoulder basically broken as long as I possibly could through Keith's farewell ceremony because that's an important thing to be present for. And I just started looking at it. And I was like, oh, man, I was holding the belt with it on the right arm.

And I was like, I should probably switch hands. And I switched hands with it. I just watch it shift forward. And I'm like, oh, man. So like I kind of like, I waited until that was done. And then I went to medical and then they gave you the news. And I was just thinking about all the years and everything I'd put into it. It really sucked, man, like emotionally.

It just sucked. I felt like I let everybody down when that happened. Did you instantly think all of the momentum that I have is completely gone now? Yep. I thought that was it. I thought there was going to be no reason whatsoever for them to revisit that at all. It's business. Business is business.

and you know it's you take one cog out and put another one in and i didn't hold that against them i just i know what this is and then i was totally blown away like that's not at all what happened and they had every single you know every single right every single reason to do something like that and it would not have been their fault but they didn't do that and they gave me a second shot and i had privately thanked them for that um i was very grateful for that and then you go to the main roster and like you want to talk about momentum going away like geez were you as shocked as everybody else was i think um i don't know i think everyone else was really shocked i think everyone else was just like pissed off too yeah they were really angry um and i i felt

that coming too um i don't know i don't know what i can really say about it it's like uh we all kind of, I mean, trust me, we were all, all of us, me, you and everybody, even though I was living it, we were all watching the same thing and kind of going like, what is going on here, you know? I, and my thought process is like, because the ideas and concepts are introduced to me, that there would be this master plan behind it. She got to understand from my point of view, look at the guys that have been working this. They're all incredible. And being in the machine, you know, even management writers, everybody, medical team. I was just used to a certain type of premeditated energy, you know,

and so I assumed with this, it would be there tenfold, gets us the flagship show. So I had reservations about how far this was going to go and what would wind up happening to me, but in the beginning, I was trying to be optimistic. And I was like, hopefully there's wheels on this thing. And people plan to, you know, do something with it that, you know, had some sort of extension of continuity of what people were watching. Because continuity is very important for wrestling and storytelling. Yeah.

Do they assume that when you go to the main roster that the general fan base isn't familiar with your previous work? Is that what the consensus is? I can't say exactly what the overall consensus is. because I feel like the consensus is different between each person. Everyone has their own opinion or perception or their own comprehension or conceptualization of what's happening when a person transitions from NXT to Raw. But I mean, I'm sure some people feel that way. Yeah.

I mean, so debut match against Jeff Hardy. Awesome. And then you're supposed to have like, I think it's 10 minutes, right? Also awesome. And then at a nowhere, it gets cut down. to 90 seconds while you're standing in the ring? Pretty much, yeah. Just, yeah, just unusual.

I mean, it's easy work, right? But, I mean, I'd rather, I'd rather, most of us would rather have a 10 out of 10 match than easy work. I mean, easy work's available anywhere, any walk of life, you know? Yeah. So, but that happens. You know what I mean? It happens, unfortunately, it happened to me.

And I just was hoping that Jeff and I were going to get a launch program. Him and I worked a lot of, we worked a few house shows, actually, I should say. And we got our time. And, man, being able to maestro the audience, especially with Jeff, we were working in Carolinas at the time, that was amazing. And being able to have that time that we wish we would have gotten for television, I wish more people got to see it. But had people gotten to.

And if him and I got to go to Extreme Rules and we had our team, TLC match. Oh, we both wanted it. We both wanted it. We would have showed you guys something. You haven't seen it a long time. When you and I exchanged texts a few months ago right after you got released, you said it was the most bizarre four months of your life.

What was the most bizarre part about this? The most bizarre part about it was the transition of the outfit. and the lack of explanation that we fail to provide to the audience. Because as I said before, not at all to be redundant. It's just continuity is extremely important, especially in storytelling. We're conditioning the audience. You know, like they are expecting to be, you know, to have things explained. And if they're not going to be immediately explained, they have to be explained at some point.

like that patience only lasts for so long. And if it's not explained, I feel like the audience, and correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like the audience feels like they're not being let in on something. That or they check out and they go into analysis mode, you know what I mean, where they're going to draw conclusions and they're going to basically,

you know, they're going to emotionally check out, which is the absolute worst thing you could possibly want to have for a wrestling show. People stop paying attention to the story you're trying to tell, and they sit there like this because they just don't understand what's happening. That was happening every week. I could feel it. I could hear it.

I could see it. And, you know, it's a big ship up there. And I, you know, had a very small part to play. And I did that as best as I could. But the fans needed more of an explanation as to why this was happening. And we never got it. So it just became this bizarre. thing that they were watching.

When you get called up to the main roster initially, do they lay out a plan for you? Do they go, here's who we think your first program is going to be with? And then if that goes well, that'll lead to X, Y, and Z down the road? No. But I did have several people tell me that

there were conversations at one point of me working with Randy, Bobby, Drew, Ray, maybe Roma. But it wasn't anything concrete. My name was being mentioned with theirs as, you know, like possible matchups and stuff like

that, which I was absolutely thrilled for. I mean, who wouldn't be? Of course, you're working there. Of course you want to work with these people. They're the best or the best. But when I had gotten there, there wasn't really any discussion of that. And you're just kind of showing up and doing what they tell you to do. And then did you just think like, this.

isn't going as I thought it might go, like, maybe I'm not going to stick around here. Like, maybe they're going to release me. They've released a whole bunch of my colleagues. Yeah, I thought for sure I was getting released because I knew that the segments weren't getting over. It was very obvious to me. And a smart end up fan watching, being able to read between the lines, could see what was happening. So, I mean, I just knew, I knew it was going to be a matter of time. One of the big things for me, and it might not be a big thing in general for other people see but like the like snap reaction of being debuted um on the main show without any sort of uh vignette or any sort of notice you know it was just sort of like out of nowhere it was like there was no next

week he's going to be here or nothing right so i thought that was that was weird like it was intuitively a red flag i guess i thought that was unusual i thought that was unusual i thought that was a sign of bad things to come. When they release you, they just say budget cuts, that's it? I don't know if I'm allowed to say. But I had a call. It was very respectful. Yeah.

Yeah. Because, you know, there's rumors online that it's like WWB's leaning towards having younger talent there. Did you ever get the feeling that because your age begins with a three, that you're not as welcome there? I never got that, to be honest with you. And I hope that doesn't piss any of my peers off, but like, I'm just being honest. I never, no one ever made me ever feel like that.

That never ever came to. So what now? Like, I feel like, is this come full circle, right? Like, this is almost like the conversation that we had two years ago where you've got a lot of options in front of you. So what speaks to you now? A lot of things. You know, like, I realized that I like to create.

I've been somewhat aware of this, but I like to create things. I like to create music. I like to paint. I love professional wrestling. I love to create stories for people. I love to create shorts and stuff like that, short films. And I don't know.

I just like that's something I like to do. So anything within that field is probably going to be of interest in it. And being, how do I say this? being bound to a script or the ideas of others and then being released from that has really made be very hungry to create even more. So I'm feeling very motivated, very inspired, feeling very creative to express that. So wherever those opportunities may arise, whether it's with music or television or movies, definitely going back to wrestling. I'm going to be there.

I'll be very engaged. We talked a lot last time about filmmaking. And are you interested in making films? Like, I mean, like directing films, writing films, as well as being in them? I would be for sure. I definitely know for sure that I'm going to be writing and directing films at some point. What I feel that I should do is I think I should learn it from the ground up at an academic level. I should probably take some courses and speak to some people.

And I have a bunch of people I could call up and talk to and probably shadow them on the job and stuff like that. That is definitely something I do want to do for sure. I know we can't live in the past, but with hindsight being 2020, what if you had taken the other fork in the road and gone down the AEW path? What do you think your career would look like? I'd probably still be wrestling. You'll be wrestling soon enough. Come on. Oh, no, I know.

I'm sure I would have been happy. I'm sure I would have been creatively fulfilled. All of my friends worked for AEW. I had only a couple friends working in WW. And I would have been in very good company. And not that I wasn't with NXT at all. Locker room was awesome there. But I think I would have loved it.

It doesn't sound like you had a bad time in WWE. If things change in a year or two or three, I feel like it wouldn't be surprising to see you back in WWE. I wouldn't be surprised, you know. I respectfully wouldn't go back and with the same circumstances. Just out of a, you know, a logical standpoint,

I definitely think I would be interested in a little bit more certainty about things. I think one of my biggest mistakes in general is, you know, I do pride myself on being a pleasure to work with, with whatever it is that I'm doing. I like to create that good energy that goes around and oftentimes.

I probably should be a little bit more assertive when I think something is a bad idea. But I think this time around with this particular situation, I was really concerned about possibly having to go back out there into a national economy that is, for lack of better words, still recovering. I think about my family. I think about people that I need to take care of, that I want to take care of. to think about my future. And working for WWV was the best place to be in order to secure stuff like that.

So to me, what is it to put on this helmet and suspenders and wrestle for gasoline, the guy for Mad Max? Like, in comparison to these things that are that important to me, I'll put on whatever they want. But let's acknowledge the fact that this is not the guy you're going to put on a poster. He's not going to be world champion material. And now let's talk about why we're doing. that when we built this, right? So I weigh things out like that.

And, you know, as a grown man and as an adult, you have to weigh out what's really important to you in life. Is creating really good professional wrestling important to me? Of course it is. But somebody else listening, you hear me, put yourself in that position. They give you an idea. It doesn't seem that great. Do you try to get it over or do you say I'm not doing that and then get fired for that reason? What are you going to do?

Yeah. Do you still have the helmet? No, I left it in the props truck. That thing? You ever seen Annabel? I'm going to go on a glass case. Put a crucistake so rid of the basement. Keep it away.

I feel, you know, the other answer might have been like you took it home and you immediately like burned it or something. I don't know. No, I had no resentment towards it. What was funny about it, though, I have to tell you, the material it was made out of, began to expand in the humidity. So every single week, it would get a little bit bigger

every week. And it started to me, it felt like it was becoming the helmet from space balls. I was like, this is ridiculous. So we won't be seeing you in the helmet ever again.

I don't think so. I don't think so, man. Who came up with the name Carian? I did. Was this one, of many names that you had to present to them? I don't remember, but I remember that was definitely, if there were a series of names, that was the top one.

And I've always been interested in Greek mythology and just old world stuff. So, Kyran was the son of Kronos in Greek mythology. It's half man, half horse, like a centaur. He has his own history. People could look up if they'd like. and then Quran was actually the ferreman that would take the souls through the land of the living

over the river sticks to the land of the dead. And I was trying to guess between those two names. You know, sometimes in languages, a word means one thing, and then it translates to another with a similar definition. The word carrying, which is like dead flesh, I thought was relatively close to those two characters, which have some similarities, but different enough.

And I just thought it rolls off the tongue. It's got a nice ring to it. I thought that would be a nice expansion for the character of Killer Cross because I don't think for their format, Killer Cross was never going to be able to sell to, you know, that particular market they're working for. Was there ever any thought of going back to being Kevin Cross?

I didn't want to go back to Kevin Cross because, and I've said this before, like, I very much, especially with that company, that is an opportunity to take advantage of engaging in the larger-than-life ideology. The way you can be produced there, most other places cannot produce you that way. So I thought to myself, I don't want any sort of resemblance of myself at all in this character, who I am outside wrestling, as people are beginning to see now that I have hair, it's very shocking. And so, like, it's, I myself as who I am would not be, at least I don't think, someone people would show up to see, you know, 80,000 people deep in a sporting event just because of who I actually am. And it's not that I think that I'm not special.

It's just like we're talking about gladiators in the Roman times. You know what I'm saying? Like that sort of place. I wanted to give them something that they can't see something. somewhere else. You can see Kevin Cross in line of the Starbucks. You're not, you're not going to see Kerry and Cross anywhere except for in WWNXT or in WW. And I wanted to create a character that just didn't feel relatable whatsoever. Because at the time, I'm not, I don't mean to be derogatory at all when I say this. There was a ton of relatable personalities and identities on

the roster. These are people you feel like you can meet, you can talk to, you can play, games with, I mean, whatever. I didn't, I was like, I would like to contribute something that is not like that whatsoever at all. So I don't want to go with your next door neighbor name for the character. So for people who are familiar with carrying cross and maybe haven't seen Killer Cross, what are they in store for when Killer Cross returns? Oh, dear. It's going to be, here it's going to be on some eyes more more psychological as much as i like to entertain you i like to inform you so there will be i don't know i've always i've always tried to entertain people who like to pay attention to the devils in the details people who don't like everything

exactly spelled out for them uh i'm probably going to be going more towards the 18 plus demographic for this. That's for sure. And yeah, I have so many different concepts that I've been sitting on for the last two years that would not work where I was. And I need to get them out and slowly but surely I'm doing it. And it feels so good. It's going to be very dark. Do you picture all of this with Scarlett by your side or is Killercross going to do one thing, Scarlett's going to do her thing. A little bit of both. At the appropriate time, she may be there. And in what sort of form is yet to be determined. Who are you taking inspiration from these days? Right now,

I'm really back into David Cronenberg stuff. I think when we talked, I was very into David Lynch at the time. I go through different moods of that type of stuff. I recently just saw a film Jamie Morgan from Code Orange actually suggested it to me and I'm so glad he did. So David Cronerberg's son, Brendan Cronomberg, just did a movie recently called Possessor.

And without blowing the plot about anything, it is deeply psychological. And when I watched it, that was kind of the place that had been floating into the last month and a half, really getting into what's actually happening around us as we see it and understanding why it's happening underneath. And that's the kind of the place I'll be creating from for the indefinite future.

The thing I love about the promos that you do or the vignettes that you were creating is that it's very much like, it's like a Christopher Nolan film, you know, like one of our favorite directors here. Like you see something on the surface like you're saying, but there's also something else that's there if you look hard enough. Yes. And look, fans know when you're treating them like they're stupid. I've known this before I was in wrestling because I was a fan. I still am a fan. The fan of me is still alive and well with what we're watching and doing. And I think it's important not to, as I've said before, not to let that die. Because that's sort of like your guidance. That's your radar for what you should be doing to understand what people would like to see and then what people would like to see out of you. and I don't know I've always just tried to entertain

the smartest people in the room I'm not alienating people who are not interested in what I'm doing I understand that there's some people who just like they're pro wrestling to be sport-based and they're going to get that for me

in the ring anyways especially now that I'm independent we're going to be going back to a little bit more of an independent how would I say Greco-Roman freestyle technical wrestling stuff I kind of stepped away from that with this character presentation

but like I'm going to be going back to that little bit, playing in that realm. But I just feel like there's what I want to do on the show will be unique versus what everyone else is doing. And that's going to be good for the entire show, because nowadays, I think you need a little bit of variety in seven or eight matches. I feel like fans are sometimes surprised when they hear that a pro wrestler is inspired by film. Because I think that so often we're used to pro wrestlers being inspired by other pro wrestlers. And I don't know, I love the idea that you watch films and go, oh, that's something I can take that and put it in my pocket and use later. Totally. And it's, I don't want to kill some of the magic, so I'll be careful how I say this.

But, I mean, a wrestling match is always going to be a wrestling match. And a wrestling match can be wonderful or it could be not so great. I think what's really going to determine the highest ratio of having good matches in general is a story. What's going on here? Okay, one guy wants to win, the other guy doesn't want to lose. Okay, beyond that, you got more matches in the show. I would like to insert things there and then build a match from there. Why is this happening? And yeah, novels, movies, television shows, I see things that I relate with.

I mean, I feel like I relate a lot with pain. So if I'm watching something and people are in pain or in suffering and stuff like that, That speaks to me on a real level because in a Hollywood machine, in feel-good movies, sometimes people, they've just seen too many of them, they don't want to watch them anymore. I think that's why people watch horror, because horror approaches really difficult subjects. And the most horrifying things in life are things that don't make sense because people can't relate. They don't understand why they're happening. It makes it feel displaced.

And so I create from those places. what do you think is the best christopher nolan film oh that's such a loaded question out here um for for me i can tell you right now my favorite is still inception and that that movie pisses a lot of people off because by the end of it they don't really wrap it up in like uh so you know exactly what happened but i don't think that you were supposed to know what what was happening at the end You're the one to decide how the movie ends. And I thought that that was very clever and very playful. And that's for me.

I don't think it matters. I don't think it matters whether the top keeps spinning or not. But I will say this. The fact that DiCaprio's character walks away from the top also shows that he doesn't care if the top keeps spinning or not. I love that you just said that. Yep, I completely agree with you. Because the rest of the film, he spins it and he watches it like, am I a image?

dream or am I in real life? And he's watching it intently until he gets the answer. And at the end of the movie, he goes, oh, I just don't. Sorry for it. This doesn't ruin it for anybody. Don't worry. I didn't give anything away. But I'm just saying that his character doesn't seem to care anymore.

Yeah, which also could be a very wonderful commentary on people and everything that happened in the film. You have to remind me, was tenant also of Christopher Nolan film? Yes. Yeah, I love tenant. I actually saw that in theaters. I'm so glad I did. I've seen that multiple times now, still trying to figure it out.

I'm fascinated with the idea of time travel and back to the future is my favorite movie of all time. I love how in Tenant you can't quite figure out what the actual timeline is here. Yes. Yep, I didn't. Yeah, and I love that I couldn't. Yeah. Also, Interstellar, I did not like the first time I saw it.

And now upon watching, and I think I've watched it five times, that scene where Matthew McConaughey comes back from the first time I saw it. the water planet and watches his kids grow up. I'm like, that is devastating that scene. Yeah. I watched it once and I had mixed emotions about it, but I definitely felt something. If you give it a rewatch, I think that you would be pleasantly surprised. Okay. Yeah. What do you think, as we wrap this up, what do you think is a film that people watching this right now need to see today?

Oh, boy. I would suggest that everyone watches The Fountain with Hugh Jack. Fountain. Yes. And I would suggest watching it with someone that you're very close with, so you can talk about it once it's done. And I don't want to tell you where the film was about. But make sure it's quiet when you watch it. Make sure you don't have any distractions. Put your phones down.

If you want to get some popcorn or like some sort of small snack or something and really pay attention to what this film is saying, because there's a message, there's multiple messages in the film. By the end of it, I felt like I had an experience within myself watching the movie. Maybe it's because I know people were in life, these things that happen on the film,

happen to them, but the fountain is definitely a movie. I would recommend it. I'm going to go see it tonight. I can't believe I love Hugh Jackman, too. He's one of the nicest people on this planet. I can't believe I haven't seen this. It's really, it's a watch. Wonderful movie. Have you seen Gone Baby Gone?

I have. Okay. So you talk about seeing this with somebody who you can have a discussion with after. I don't want to give too much away, but when Gone Baby Gone ends, there is a big moral dilemma. And it's oftentimes you'll think one thing and the person you're watching it with may think the complete opposite. And that movie sat with me for days. I mean, I still think about it now and I saw it like a decade ago. but there's the end of that movie is just yeah it's it's it's something that'll make your mind just be spinning for a long time all right you got me uh you sold me here so i i highly recommend that and ben afflick as a director's incredible wait a minute gone baby gone wait a minute no no i think i did watch this without blowing the plot right he has a wife it's casey aflick's the star of this

movie. Okay. And they're like detectives trying to figure out this a child goes missing in their neighborhood and they're trying to like figure out what happened. Hugh Jackman's in it? Hugh Jackman's not in it. That's that's prisoners, I think. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. That would be so good. Yes, it is. I'll check this one out. I will. I know I haven't seen it. Oh, it's so good. Thank you so much for stopping by, for catching up. And like, the future is so bright for you. I just, I can't wait to see what's next. Thank you so much, man. I'm excited to engage with everybody on a new level right now.

I feel like there's been a massive shift in consciousness over the last two years since we talked. Remember the last time I talked to, I told you I felt very introverted. I don't feel that way anymore, man. I feel like I can, I don't know. Just with the events of everything that's happened in the world, I feel much more open to talk to people and communicate with people. And I'll be around for these, again, in the immediate future for sure. I love that. Well, the question that I ask everybody at the end is I talk about gratitude all the time.

So for you, what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? Number one is to be alive. Number two, that my family is in good health right now. And number three, that I'm going to be marrying this lady. I believe in January. She's right there? She's on the other side of that. Hello, Scott. Thank you so much, ma'am. Thank you.

I look forward to what's next for you. Thank you so much. There we go. And every time I talk to him, I'm just so impressed with how well-spoken he is and also how different he is from the character that he plays. And we talked about it here,

but if you check out the video on YouTube, he looks like a totally different person with the hair that he has. Take a screenshot. Let us know what you thought about this. Let us know what stood out for you the most. If you share it on social media, make sure to give us a tag.

He's very active on there. So we can retweet it out or put it on Instagram on our stories. Tag him. He's at Real Killer Cross. I am at Chris Van Fleet. And I'll leave you with this quote from the great Jim Rohn who says, Happiness is not by chance. It's by choice.

Be great and be grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands. trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley?

How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this.

Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.