Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Karrion Kross on NXT & AEW, his intensity, Scarlett Bordeaux, film influences. Originally from 9/20/19

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

Karrion Kross sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Starrcast III in Chicago, IL. This interview was originally uploaded on September 20, 2019 but with his recent debut in NXT it seemed like a great time to revisit this conversation for anyone who may not have heard it. Or perhaps there's a chance you had never heard of Karrion Kross before you saw him on NXT! In this chat, he was still known as Killer Kross and talked about the advantages of signing with AEW & NXT, the movies and books that influence his in-ring style, his girlfriend Scarlett Bordeaux and more!   Thanks to Bet Online for supporting this episode! Use the code BLUEWIRE for a new welcome bonus on your first deposit at http://BetOnline.ag Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Woo! This is the Chris Van Gogh. Van Vleet Show. Chris Van Vleet Show. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. Well, here we go. Welcome back again to the Chris Van Vleet Show.

This episode is brought to you by Bet Online. And if you didn't catch it in the title, this is not a new interview with Carrying Cross. Let's get that out of the way right now. This is an interview we did in September, all-out weekend in Chicago, when he was still known as Killer Cross. and when he was deciding what to do next.

So now that he's debuted in NXT is Carrying and Cross with Scarlet Bordeaux and he's just tearing it up, now seems like the perfect time to revisit this interview. So if you've heard this before, I think this is going to speak to you even more now. And if you've never heard it, oh, man, you're in for such a treat here. This is, oh, man, this is such a great chat. He's so well-spoken and well-spoken. all read and just an intelligent guy. And if you've only ever seen Carrying Cross on NXT, man, buckle up because this is going to show you an entirely different side of him.

Oh, you're going to like him so much more. Thanks, by the way, for being here. A lot of you since day one, you know, both on the podcast and the YouTube channel. So thank you. And next week, the podcast turns one. And it's been an incredibly solid first year. I mean, we hit a thousand reviews on Apple Podcasts. We just did that a few weeks ago, so thank you for that. And let's keep this thing going. See Marlow 91 left this review with the title, Great Interview. I didn't know or even thought I wanted to know about Greg Hamilton, but that was an amazing interview. And then he put the five stars, but an emoji. So star, star, star, star, star. You know, that was a great interview. And thank you, C. Marlow, 91. Greg's just such a good dude. And I've got to spend a lot of time

with him recently because we both live in Cincinnati. But man, what a solid guy. We had beers together after we recorded that interview. And it's just amazing seeing how similar our lives are and our careers are. If you haven't checked out that interview yet, please take some time right now, take some time this week to give it a listen because so, so good. So to say, carrying cross has made a statement in NXT would be an understatement. He's put everybody on notice since he debuted, and that's just the type of performer that he is. In this interview, we dig into his influences, what they are, where his intensity comes from. He's very inspired by books he's read and films he's watched. And when we had this conversation, he was figuring out his contract situation

with Impact Wrestling. It's so interesting to hear at that time what his take was on both NXT and A.W, which both seemed like very viable options at the time. Although, if I'm being honest, Scarlet Bordeaux had just signed with WWE and had just moved to Orlando. He recently, he moved to Orlando like not long after that. So I'm like, you know what? I think you might go to WWE. Although in this interview, we talk about it. I said, do you really think WWE would allow you to be the character that you've been right now, both in Impact Wrestling and on the Indies? And he's like, you know what? I think they would. And you know what? He's right. You know, that's exactly what's happening right now. So you know what? Let's just get right into this because it's so good.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's carrying cross. All right, I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us. I know it's a busy weekend here in Chicago, but thank you for this time. My pleasure. I know a lot of people are very excited about this. I am personally very excited about this. you're one of the most exciting wrestlers, I think, that I guess we can call you a free agent, I guess. In one way, shape, form or another. But, you know, people are really blown away by your in-ring intensity, I think. Is that a good way to say it? I would definitely say, so I think that's a fair assessment.

One thing that I really have always tried to do is create an emotional engagement and a response to understand the purpose of what we're really doing out there. And for me, it's always been, you know, to elicit emotion and engage people with the art of storytelling, the oldest stories in the world, light versus dark, good versus evil, and so forth. With that, are you inspired by certain movies? Is that where this came from? I think it was just a combination of coincidences growing up being, I guess, just engaging with different forms of entertainment from professional rights. wrestling, like very first match I ever recall seeing was, you know, Warrior Pinning Hogan. I mean,

I may have saw the matches before that, but that was ingrained. That was ingrained in me. And I grew up in like that time when 80s horror films and early 90 horror films, like, they didn't make sense. And that was unsettling. Remember how things used to be? Yeah, yeah. And I think that that really scared people because like in life, the things that really bother us The things that create uncertainty. It's like you've been walking down the street your entire life and you know exactly where everything is. And then one day you walk down and everything is different.

It's just something as simple as that. It freaks people out. They feel displaced. So I've always tried to create that sort of atmosphere and what I've been doing. Were there certain horror movies that you were really drawn to? It's very weird. So at the risk of sounding totally insane. I think it might be too late for that.

It's too late. It's just to work. So yeah, it's kind of like, I remember seeing snippets of films I wasn't supposed to be watching as a kid, things that were super graphic and insane. One of the movies, and I know this film and I've seen it, I love it, the reanimator. I don't know if everyone's going to know that one, but I mean, there was just such graphic horror in those films and television shows. And it was just insane and dark and illogical. and I feel like that was sort of a satire or like a mirror image of what bothers people in real life. Like people who are illogical are always the ones who disturb people.

And then there's also people who are very logical that just have their own arbitration of what's right and wrong. And they will do wrong to others through justification that also scares people too. Well, I think it's interesting when you talk about storytelling because obviously wrestling is all about storytelling. But I feel like a lot of what you do in the ring and especially in your promos has like a, film aspect to it. Is that something that you intentionally, you know, worked into it? 100%. I, when I was breaking in, I would kind of assess and look at what was going on on a wrestling card or a television program. And sometimes the matches and the stories blend together because the parallels are too similar, right? Sure. So I thought on the independence,

while I had the freedom, if I could come up with creative things and variances that felt different from the rest of the things people were saying, that was going to be a great way to stand out. Not only that, it was my own individual way of contributing differently to a show versus everyone else. Why would I be valuable in a show? Well, I'm going to give people something that can't be emulated or done by anyone else. And that I thought was the best way to create value, you know, from a sincere place, you know? Did you have any aspirations of maybe going into acting if wrestling wasn't a thing? 100%. I've always wanted to be an actor since I was a kid. I dabbled in theater a little bit. And my teens, always also wanted to be a professional wrestler, too.

Sure. And then growing up in combat arts and martial arts and sports and stuff like that, coming from a family that was just always involved with that, I was very comfortable in conflict. And so, like, once you find out you're good at conflict, you know, you can kind of get lost in that. And I just, you know, everyone always asked me, you know, would you fight pro MMA? I had moved to Las Vegas to fight pro MMA. I was dabbling that for a little while, but over time, you know, you realize that there's certain things that bring you fulfillment. There's certain, you know, things that you're good at. And there's certain things that you want to pursue.

And I just didn't love combat martial arts enough to pursue it as a career. But all of that, I think, just kind of wrapped in one big bow in that general direction kind of put me on course list. But acting in the films, movies, TV shows, 100%. Are you still dabbling in MMA, at least for fitness or anything like that? Yeah, that's just the way of life for me. So I'm always training recreationally. Always. I can't stop.

I'll go crazy. It's a form of therapy. Really anything. Like, I'm out of Vegas. So anytime I could ever get a chance to go into Vanderley-Silva school, want fight team or syndicate mixed martial arts, I'll go in and just roll around and do what I do. Or if I can ever find a heavy bag, I'll do the routines I grew up doing there as well. So I need that.

I need that in my life. Who were some of the wrestlers that when you were growing up? I mean, you mentioned the first match you ever saw. But who were the people that really inspired you to want to watch? You know, a lot of people will always throw out one name for a political reason. Like, a lot of the guys in the business will say that their favorite wrestler was a specific person because they're afraid they're going to get heat from someone who's above them being like, why would you mention that guy's name?

He never drew any money. You know, but it's like I really had a ton of favorites. But, I mean, not to be redundant, I mentioned Warrior. Like as a child, I had a manic amount of energy. And I just felt... You don't anymore? More so as a child, believe it or not, I could scale this wall. That's impressive.

Yeah. So, I mean, I just identified with high energy characters. And back then, 80s and 90s, it was a lot of high energy stuff. People were screaming. Like, there was no... That was every promo, yes. Yeah. There was no such things that into her voice in pro wrestling.

No. It exists, you know? So basically, yeah, I mean, a warrior probably, as I grew up, I had new favorites Gary Albright, Dr. Death, guys that had an amateur background because, I mean, I was trying to decipher at a certain point as I grew up what was real and what was, you know, not. The chatter begins at a certain point ahead of your adolescence as to what was legit, what wasn't. And I grew up around wrestlers. So then when you learn to start identifying footwork and how they're grabbing people, you know, a gable grip or they're getting their hips under people, suddenly like a drop kick off the top rope doesn't look as effective as like, you know, suflang somebody on the top of their head and then

proceeding to soccer kicked him in the face like a Japanese match. So I had a lot of influences in that direction. Then later on I really, really, really got into character work. His name is not mentioned enough, but Sean O'Hare, he was amazing. Like I literally wear that coat down to the ring as a nod to him. A lot of people don't know that, but Sean O'Hare was immensely inspirational, Brian Pillman, just a broad spectrum. I don't have one guy.

Everyone wants me to say, you know, Ricky Dragon or, you know, steamboat, flare. I mean, everybody wants you to say those. And those guys were incredible. Sure. I mean, like a lot of us have jobs right now because of what they did. And how they secured, you know, a residual demographic coming to those shows where they sold out buildings, you know, of thousands upon thousands of people. But I just enjoyed so much across the boards.

And I feel like it wouldn't be fair. Like you said, it just named one person. Anyone watching this right now does not just have one favorite wrestler. No. Throughout the course of your life, there's been different people that you've been drawn to. So I appreciate you being, you know, being able to go, yeah, this is the way it should be. Sure. When you say when you were younger, you were able to deal with conflict, is that with words or is that with using your fists?

Both. Both. Yeah. So it was like it was a weird transition. So like every kid, you know, you know, I grew up in an age where bullying was ramped. It wasn't, it wasn't assessed. You got bullied? A little bit.

A little bit. I can't see someone bullying. Everybody, though. Everybody got kind of caught a beating growing up. and I didn't take to it as dramatically as some other people because I was involved with the amateur wrestling and boxing and stuff but like I never knew what I could get away with and what I could do because my father would always be like hey like

you know if somebody comes actually the wrong way then put them in the right direction and my mother would always be like hey listen like let's not let's not get kicked out of school so I mean I learned how to work from a diplomatic angle and then I learned how to work in the angle where diplomacy fails so I I don't and all I just turned out that way, I guess, from that type of nurturing. You seem to be so much like, not that other wrestlers are, but you're so well-spoken. Is this from your upbringing? Is it from your education?

What are you attributed to? Naturally, growing up, I was a kid stuck in a state of avoidance. I can give you some stuff here I've never talked about. Okay. And a lot of people live in different states of avoidance. And my communication was horrendous. I didn't express things enough verbally, you know. I was very introverted and I still think I am an introvert.

I'm not naturally an extrovert. I can do it. It's just not my natural place to be. You're an introverted extrovert. I guess. And I just, I don't like not being good at things that I want to be good at. So obviously communication, you know, is effective in all aspects of life. So I just chose to get better at communicating and I think I just try to come from an

empathetic place with that. If I kind of speak to people on that level, then that that trepidation to be that way kind of goes away. So what was it that you were avoiding? I mean, if you're willing to speak about it. I just keep my cards close to my chest. I'm just naturally always in that place. I just, I'm more comfortable just, I don't know, in my in my own skin, not putting my energy out there. I like to conserve it. Has being in the ring allowed you to be maybe a more open version of yourself? again at the risk of sounding totally nuts so like i'm not killer cross um but killer cross is definitely a real thing and um i think people would agree that when they go to the shows they're getting something very visceral very carnal um and and very real in the way that we can use that word for this uh out of him

so we put him away until the music and the lights start but there's got to be some sort of crossover some a bleedover between him and you. I would definitely say the development of that character comes from a lot of things that I've gotten from the pro wrestling audience. Like the toll man was a name that I got for a long time and that basically was pertaining to a promo that I cut at the beginning of my career and I said, you know, all of these guys running around, you know, trying to play the role like overgrown children masquerading around as adults.

I said, something of that nature. And I said, well, when I'm around, they're going to have to pay the toll. Had a little rhyme to it. So people started calling them the toll man. People started calling me the people's execution or people started calling me the anti-machine, all this different type of stuff. And if that's what they're calling me and that's what they want me to be, then I might as well embrace that. So the development of Kila Cross came from that.

And then, like I said, the inspirations from entertainment and art and stuff like that. So that's what I think. Well, I mean, you think you would know better than anybody. Let's hope so. Is this the part where you don't want to sound insane again? Just don't ask me about my psychological evaluations. Oh, God. That was, oh, geez.

That promo was great. Thank you. That was so good. I did not see that coming. I knew something was going to happen, but, and I think a best supporting actor nod for whoever. He's the best. We talked about that for a while. Did you ever see the movie Collateral with Tom Carrey, Jamie Fox?

I love that movie. We talked about that forever, and it was like a supporting actor in a great film or a television show really can tie the entire plot and the entire character premises together. And I was like, we discussed that. And Jamie Fox made Tom Cruise Erie in that film. It could not have been done that way without, you know, that sort of supporting positions. So are you a big film buff then? Huge. Okay.

Huge. What are like, name some movies over the last little while. Oh, no. That you've really loved. Because I work in television. I review movies all the time. I'm part of the Broadcast Film Critics Association. I vote on the Critics Choice Awards.

So I watch a ton of movies. Sure. In a broad stroke, I've really. thoroughly enjoyed all of the Marvel films. Sure. So I kind of dropped off the face of the earth with comics around 95 or 96, but I grew up on them, right? So like all the movies that they're making now, I read these comics when I was a kid.

And I always thought, you know, my friends, like, how amazing would this be if they could find a way to create, you know, a television show or like a movie out of this? You know, you fantasize about that. You grew up. You forget about it. Then all of a sudden, like full circle, like 20 years later, they're doing them. And so I was like, you know, that little kid in me was alive and well watching those films. I really enjoyed those films from a sentimental place.

I knew where all the characters were. I knew where the turns were and everything. And I thought they were so well done. Who's your favorite Marvel character? I'm going to say Captain America because he's completely incorruptible. And that was like a refreshing character presence in a film. I mean, light and dark is always so convoluted, right? Um, the film and the common era likes to play on shades of gray with so much. And I feel like there's

such a massive abundance of shades of gray. It's refreshing to see someone who's like either a white hat or a black hat. Yeah. I, I was in a discussion recently with one of my other friends was a film buff that movie stars don't open movies anymore. Like you don't go, oh, that's the Tom Cruise movie. It's going to make a hundred million dollars. I think directors, though, have that kind of pull. Sure. Um, is there a, you know, we've got a mosquito flying around here, annoying us. trying to get us five seconds and geez well you got it mosquito parasites they're everywhere in this business um who blood suckers is there a certain director that when you realize or when you find out

that they're making a film you're like i can't wait to see martin scorzzi ridley scott uh david lynch huge david litch fan i drew a lot of um that thing that i shot for john moxley uh i shot that with a few friends of mine and uh edited it and everything and But, you know, my final idea in post-production for that was to set that in like a David Lynch-esque environment. Because, again, like we were saying, David Lynch is notorious that in films like Lost Highway and I could go on on Twin Peaks, the television show and the movie Firewalk with me. All that stuff felt really strange and eerie and scary. And it felt so different from everything else you were watching. I didn't want this to just be a generic vignette or a promo or a selling point on something that could happen.

I wanted this to feel strange. So accomplished. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like for me, when Christopher Nolan's going to have a film, it's like, you know it's going to be amazing. Yeah, Christopher Nolan, he did the Superman of the Batman films and so many others, but those ones stood up for me. They were incredible. We just got to take a quick pause from this conversation. To thank our sponsor for this episode, Bet Online.

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and you'll get a free welcome bonus. That's one word, BlueWW, B-L-W-E, B-L-U-E-W-E. Bet Online. It's your online wagering experts. Obviously you're here. It's all-out weekend. A lot of your friends work in AEW. What have been your thoughts watching this company evolve?

From the announcement in January to the first show in May, see where we are now. I watched the AEW show live in Vegas, and I'm not saying this because I think I was supposed to say it. In all sincerity, I was really blown away by it because there was just a very different energy to the show in a good way. I mean, I've said this before, but I just think it needs to be said. Like, with all of the different tools that we use to elicit and engage in emotional response

from an audience when we go out there. From putting our bodies in the line to the execution of the story, sincerity, energy, listening to the fans during the match, timing, everything. There's like people literally weeping in the audience, Cody versus Dustin. Of course. Like, you can't, you can't, like, orchestrate that.

That's not something you can pre-plan. Like, you know, putting things together, you can't be like, at this part, the audience is going to cry. Like, that was amazing to actually be around. I don't think I've been at a wrestling event in the audience where that's happened. Yeah, it was just awesome. Penton, Phoenix killed it too. They kill it everywhere they go.

Everything. Seeing the international talents was really cool, too. It was just an awesome show. I mean, it was awesome. It was really cool. It feels like a good fit for you. And I'm saying that because everyone watching this goes, Killer Cross would be a great fit in AEW.

Obviously, you probably can't speak too much to that, but just know that that's where people think that, you know, would be a great spot for you. I think anywhere where you can be the killer cross that you want to be, I think would be, that'd be the best situation for you. I agree. You know, like, I think with the direction that they're going in with T&T, and I think that with the flexibility that I've heard that they're offering creatively, I definitely think there's some things that I could do there and creatively get out that I might,

it just might not fly elsewhere. But, you know, ultimately, I'm not married to go in any specific direction for any company right now. it's even difficult to think about it. It's stressful to think about just because of the other things that are associated with it. Yeah. That's why I've been trying to focus on these particular directions and kind of live in a good state of gratitude, I suppose, and just be in the present moment and focus on the things I can do. But I'm not, you know, I wouldn't be opposed to going down that road when I'm, I guess, able to.

A lot of what you're saying here about staying positive, staying in the moment's been what you've been putting out onto social media as well. Big time, yeah. Are there certain books you've been reading? or have read that have really, you know, kind of helped your mindset with this? Scarlett actually turned me on to a book called Theta Healing. And I can't even begin to explain that because I haven't finished it. But it's a book about engaging in different types of energy and healing. It's in the title.

Do you feel like you have some healing that needs to be done? I don't know. Maybe with the situation. Sure. Yeah. I think everyone is always in a state of, Healing, I suppose. But that book, Art of War by Sun Su, I've read probably 35 or 36 times.

Excellent, excellent book. That's a very specific number too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Behold the Pale Horse was a great book. American Psycho, excellent book. I feel like there might be a little bit of American Psycho.

I've never heard that before. What about Bronson? I love that movie. I know all about that guy. I watched the documentaries. I drew a lot, actually, from that film as well. People will see that, I think. Even the glasses are very similar.

Yep. Yeah, Tom Hardy's portrayal there is unbelievable. I love how those glasses are synonymous with really interesting and crazy people, too. Like Pilman wore those. Yes. Not that Lenin was crazy, but I mean, John Lennon wore those glasses, too. And, yeah, it's just want to make somebody nuts. You put those sunglasses on them.

But do you think you'd be able to do the, character work you've been doing recently in a place like NXT or WWA. Perhaps. But also perhaps not. I used to think perhaps not. And then I started to grow and develop a little bit more as a performer. And I began to realize, whereas I thought certain things that I was doing could not be pulled off there, I began to realize that was due to my own limitations.

And it's just so funny. like and every pro wrestler will tell you this or performance artist debate. So every pro wrestler will tell you every year. Sports entertainer? Yes, sports entertainer. Every pro wrestler will tell you one year they think they've got it all figured out and then the next year they realize they don't know anything. And like that's like the best feeling ever because you just feel like you have more cards to play. And whereas I thought that certain things I was doing were either one dimensional, even two dimensional. I'm in a place right now where I feel like

I won't really matter where I go. I'm going to be able to do what I'm doing in any way, shape, or form. Like, I've hit a really cool peak creatively with things. I know how to lay things out differently, so it would kind of work in any platform. And people haven't seen me do that yet. And there's a reason why, because I'm saving it for perhaps a direction that I finally go in once we're ready to move. Perhaps a grander stage?

Perhaps. With that said, do you look back at your old matches, even six months ago or a year ago, two years ago and go, wow. I've grown so much. Absolutely, all the time, all the time. I heard that, I mean, in my business of television, if you look back at stuff from six months ago and you're proud of it or six months ago and you go, oh, that was really good, you're not improving. Of course.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's always like that. I mean, I've always kind of treated every single match as a time to improve. And I know everybody else does, too. I mean, for the most part, you rarely ever going to meet people in this business that aren't looking to improve every time you go out there. You know, like, it would be a strange place to be in if you weren't doing that.

That's like a fun thing. Like, it's always something to discover differently. So, I mean, it's cool. Is it a coincidence that your initials are the same as your real name? KKKKKK, KK, K. Well, KRK would be the shoot. But yeah, but yeah, I get that a lot. Yep.

Yeah. That's just something. Like was that by design from the start? Well, Kevin Cross initially was sort of a, when we were putting ideas together about character, presentation when I first got started. I was thinking about things that chance or fan chance. Give me one slip. I was thinking about things that fans could chant because I was observing psychology and I was thinking like if you have some like abracadabba baloney name, you know what I mean?

It might be hard for fans to kind of get behind that if you're working babyface or something. And I was thinking about different names that they could come up with in chance. And I was also thinking about marketing. And I was thinking about something catchy, something that rolls off the tongue. Literally, Kevin Cross just came to me, and I just thought it was an easy name to remember, and I just wanted to kind of play off that direction for a while. And then Kevin Cross became Killer Cross, literally from different things that happened in the ring. I think it was around the time I had wrestled Shane Douglas. We did sort of like an ECW rule style match. I had extra tape on my hands, and I just finished watching No Country for Old Men

with Javier Bardem and Tommy Lee Jones. Of course. Yeah. And there was a scene that was just so disturbing. It was when they finally arrest heavier by the name's character. I believe his name was Anton Chigar. He's in the police station and he grape finds the cops back and he has the handcuffs and he chokes him with the chain. So I'd overtake my hands that night and I figured a great way to go home

would be to unravel the tape and do that exact spot. Yeah. And people were chanting Killer Cross and that kind of just followed me for a couple months and I was like that's also got a ring to it and it's very character driven and I could draw a lot out of that so the fans are calling me that for months. So I was like, well, my name

is Killer Cross now. I might as well, just like all the other monikers and stuff, I might as well embrace it. And it's been a godsend. It's been awesome. And I know you were a big ECW fan, are a big ECW fan. Huge. What was your one go-to match that you loved in ECW? Oh, I mean, the first one that came to mind, to be fair, was Bam, Bam and Taz. That was, there was like, I remember showing people that match growing up that they were so certain they knew what pro wrestling was they had a preconceived notion and some of them you know were wrestling fans and they were so certain they knew what they were watching and how it all worked i would show people that match and they were like they're really fighting they hate each other this is real you know what i mean it's like that's

an amazing thing like that's not something you can teach someone to do to create that sort of uh feeling when someone's watching that i mean that's art man people walk into a place with the notion that you know like a magic show david copperfield you walk in oh it's just magic man obviously we're going to get we're going to get hooked tonight the magic's not right that's not real. And then, you know, he makes a piano disappear and there's an airplane floating over your head and you're like, this is amazing. This is, this is magic. You know what I mean? It's like, it doesn't have to do with just collecting a group of gullible people and putting them in a room. It's not that. It's making people feel something. And that's what it is. It's not about tricking them. It's not about misleading them. It's about

making people feel something. And they ride that with you, you know? Um, other, like, obviously that was very early in the ECW days. Sure. Was there something maybe,

you know, closer to a 2000-ish that you look at and you're like, that's great wrestling? I think all of the matches, uh, with Kurt Angle

and Brock Lesnar were incredible. Okay, yeah. Kurt Angle and Michaels, that feud I thought was amazing. I loved. Kurt Angle and anybody. Really.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all that stuff was awesome. I loved all the Sean stuff with Hunter when they were feuding. When Sean, when Sean came back. I thought that was really cool. And I always look back at that and think,

like, that was amazing how much mileage they got out of that. And everyone was like locked into that for the longest time. I loved all of that stuff. I thought it was awesome. As we look at this arm, this rather large arm full of tattoos here, which was your first tattoo? It was a tribal up here. It was literally just this one? Yeah. Oh, it's being covered kind of. A little bit. It was a black band by itself. And I had always planned to do a sleeve. I knew that was going to be the start of it. So what year was that one? Oh, God. Maybe 2002 or 2003. Oh, my God. Wow. Wow. And what's your most recent one then? Oh, the most recent one would probably be my left chest. Some of it was done in Thailand. where we went to a temple in Shai, Scarlett-Brodon, I went to Thailand backpacking,

and we went to a Buddhist temple, and there was a, like, a ceremony done. People can learn about it. It's a long story, but it was a tattoo done, and it was like a protection blessing. So I had that done. I don't even know what it's called, but they basically take a rod, they kind of like nail it into your chest to do it. It's extremely painful. but if it's important to you and you understand the purpose of it, then, you know, you'll deal with it.

But it was probably the most painful thing I ever went through mine for how long? I think it was maybe only 20 to 25 minutes to do the whole thing, but like it felt like 30 years. You can't move. And I almost felt like the blade was hitting like my chest plate, like my bones. I'm sure, yeah. Pretty fucking horrible. But it was worth it. I'm glad I did it.

I think you're so much more spiritual than a lot of people would think from, you know, from the time your music hits to the time you walk back through the curtain. Have you always been this way? Or was there something in your life that kind of manifested this or the catalyst to make this happen? I would say probably over the last year and a half to two years, I've really embraced just a general sense of spirituality. I don't even know exactly what I could say I've encountered specifically that kind of turned me in that direction. But it's magnetic. It's something that's that I feel kind of in my chest and my core to be driven in that direction. And it always provides a lot of tranquility, a lot of lessons.

I don't know. It's just, it's been good to me. I always get a positive return out of it. It just no matter what you believe in, there's positive and negative energy that's been proven. And I think that, you know, being wary of that and respecting that is kind of a place where I draw from. Do you meditate as well? I do. Yeah.

That feels like, I feel like you have that kind of energy. Yep. Is that a daily thing? Yes. Wow. Yep. Every morning? Every morning.

A certain amount of time? If I'm home in Vegas, I go outside of the sun and I have a cup of coffee and I will sit in the sun and I will not look at my phone and I will kind of just embrace what's immediately going on with me. So that's sort of my form meditation. Or I'll go hiking. I'll go to a high point and just get away from everything. And I think that isolation serves a great purpose to people. A lot of people, I think, freak out when they're alone. But I think that, again, is living in a state of avoidance.

You're avoiding something. You're always in a state of avoidance if you're constantly engaging in things around you. When you get alone, you're isolated. Something's bothering you. I really think me personally, it's a good thing to sit there and be in that state of panic or whatever it might be. Yeah, you have to address it. Yes. Yeah.

Yes. And I feel like I heard an interesting conversation recently that we are in Cape of being bored anymore because 10, 20 years ago, if you were sitting in a doctor's office, you would literally just have to sit there. Yep. Now, the second you get bored, you pull your phone out and you'll just start scrolling. Totally. And it's very interesting that you say that you'd like that time to be quiet and be with

your own thoughts. Yeah. I feel like more people need to do that. More people do, but that's, you know, in the common air of society, in the direction that everything's going in. it's all about, you know, optimizing, you know, a consumer demographic, turning people into constant consumers trying to take, take, take, take, take. They're not just taking your money, they're taking your energy, too.

You know, it's like people need to, uh, I feel like we're moving away from like, uh, we're abandoning emotional discipline. I feel like with all of the technological advances, I don't think social media is a bad thing, but there are some people that really do not know how to use it effectively. Sure. It winds up controlling them. Yeah. It winds up bringing out a lot of negative.

of stuff and I'm and I just think it all goes back to emotional discipline. Well, I don't think it's fair for people that go, oh, it's the, you know, social media is awful. It's the root of all bad things. No, it brings people together. 100%. You know, it made, it brought this together. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I engage that as much as I possibly can when I'm able to and in a healthy way, you know, engaging with fans and stuff and stuff like that, I think it's good. Like, if people were not watching what I was doing, and people were not interested in seeing me, I wouldn't be doing it. You know what I mean? I'm doing it to engage people. And as much as I like to entertain people, and as much as I like to entertain people, in what I do, I also like to inform them.

And I can always tell people that if they're watching what I'm doing, they'll get a little bit more out of it than somebody else who might not be looking for the details. 20 years ago, if you wanted to find someone who was a fellow fan of pro wrestling, you had to, it just randomly would come up in conversation, or you would see someone in your high school, like wearing a shirt, and you'd be like, dude, you're wearing an NW. I didn't know idea you were a wrestling fan.

Yep. Now you can just go to a message board, a website, a YouTube video, Instagram, Facebook, whatever. And instantly, it's like that scene in Step Brothers. Did we just become best friends? It's like that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Totally. Tell us something about Scarlett that we might not know

from looking at her or experiencing her on television. Oh, God. What can I say that? They won't get you in trouble with her? Yeah. She's very intellectual. I don't know if people won't necessarily draw that from the character presentation.

Um, she's extremely intelligent. She's very worldly. Um, and I believe she's first generation American. From where? I wonder if I should say. That's a good story for her to tell. Okay. Well, then we'll have to get her on the show.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think people might, you know, might think that she is as mean in person as her character. She is. She is. People might also think that you're as intense and crazy as we see on TV. I am.

I shouldn't ask you about that. No. No, no, no. We will not discuss that. Everything is fine. Yeah, I can see. But seriously, everything is fine. You're awesome.

Thank you. No, I think there's so much more, even in this, you know, this brief conversation that we're having now, there's so much more. And I hope that this is the first of many conversations that we have. With the positive stuff that you've been putting out there, is there one phrase that you go back to or one phrase it's helped guide your life? Or maybe even just a mindset? I don't know. That's a, I'm going to get very introspective on that. I don't know if we have the time. I would, I don't know if I was, if I, you know, being afforded the opportunity to put something out there, I would,

I would encourage people to never do anything in their lives, whether it be career or personally, that they can't live with. And then. anticipate that who you are today is going to change in due time and what you change into will not be something you can anticipate. So be a good person. You said something in your shoot interview. I wrote it down here because I thought it was so interesting. You said that people love to be terrified. In what way do people love to be terrified? Because some people are terrified to be terrified. I think people in general, at least in this common era that I'm living in, to be fair,

are kind of just crashing into things and not really necessarily feeling something. I feel like a lot of people have become experienced junkies and have lost the value in, I guess, all things. I know that's very general. I think that people who are experienced junkies are always constantly looking to feel something regardless of the consequence, regardless of how it may change them, regardless of how it will make them feel just as long as they feel something. And I think in a controlled setting, being terrified for a person who may fall into that category or not is sort of a safe experience. to a degree until they lose control of that. That's a whole other story.

But I think that people being terrified is just it's an experience they want to have in a controlled setting. Sure. I want to acknowledge you for everything in this interview. I appreciate you being so open. There's so much more to you than people would just see in a promo or a match.

And I appreciate that we were able to, you know, kind of get some of that out there. I'm so excited for whatever's next. Me too. And I guess we'll see at some point in time what that is, whenever that is. So thank you for this. I'm glad we were able to make this come together. It's the power of social media people.

It's not all bad. Yeah. Don't be an asshole. Those are the words to live by. I tried not to swear. Maybe that was number two. Who's keeping count? Thank you so much.

My pleasure. Thank you for having me, man. All right. Well, there we go. Carry and cross. ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. I hope you learned a ton about both the man and the character here. Take a screenshot. Tag me. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Tag him. He's at WWE Carian Cross. And I feel like we also lifts it off to a lot of books there that you

can add to your list of books to read. Some really good recommendations in there. And I'm just so excited to see what opportunities he's given in NXT because, I mean, look at the guy. Look at him. He has championship material written all over him. And I think it would be a travesty if he doesn't become North American champion and then become NXT champion. Heck, you know, let's just skip over North American champion. Just make the man the NXT champion sometime in the next 12 months. I think that makes perfect sense, right? He's just running through opponents right now. And I know that he's going to have some incredible matches in WWV. So if this is your first time listening to this interview, I hope you loved it. If this was your second time, third time, whatever,

If you would listen to this before back when I released this in September and you're listening to it again now, I hope that it meant even that much more to you now. And since we talked about some great quotes in this interview and some great books in this interview, we're going to leave it with this quote that I love from Jim Rohn. It's one of my favorite quotes ever. If you really want to do something, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find an excuse. This Thursday, Spike Dudley, is going to be on the show. show. What a chat with him. He doesn't do a lot of interviews. So this is a really good one.

We dig in deep with this one. Hope you enjoyed this one. And I know you'll enjoy the one with Spike. We'll see you on Thursday. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs

on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry. And on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here.

The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.