Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Kevin Owens On Injuries, WrestleMania, Stone Cold, Beating Up Vince McMahon, Sami Zayn

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Get your tickets for INSIGHT LIVE in NYC & Las Vegas with VIP Meet & Greet!Kevin Owens (@FightOwensFight) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Chicago, IL to discuss his journey from being trained by Jacques Rougeau to main eventing WrestleMania, being Steve Austin's first opponent in 19 years, winning the Tag Team Championships with Sami Zayn at WrestleMania 39, beating up Vince McMahon and busting him open with a headbutt, attacking Cody Rhodes off camera at Bad Blood, bringing back the package piledriver, his hilarious t-shirts, why you should never follow him at the airport and more!Quote I'm thinking about: "When we strive to become better than we are, everything around us becomes better too." - Paulo CoelhoPlease support our sponsors! PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux SEAT GEEK: Get 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure! STASH: Go to https://get.stash.com/INSIGHTto see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures MAGIC SPOON: Get $5 off your next order at https://magicspoon.com/cvv VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv FABRIC: Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://meetfabric.com/CVV ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.comMIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for FREE with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet! Greetings and salutations, my friends. Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Hope your day is off to a great start. I know there's a lot of wrestling podcasts out there. So thank you for clicking on this one. And by doing that, thank you for helping to make Insight

the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. it, hit a package pile driver on that follow button on Spotify or Apple or Casbox or wherever you're listening. If it is Spotify, could I ask for a three second favor? Could you leave a rating on there? And if it's Apple, could you leave a review on there? Both of those things help so much. The rating on Spotify, the review on Apple.

So thank you in advance for that. We just announced who the guest is going to be for Insight Live in Las Vegas next week. I'll be joined by none other than our truth. Dare I say, this is going to be the funniest event happening all WrestleMania week. You don't want to miss it. Tickets are on sale at CVVTX.com. That's CVVTX.com. I'm pumped that Kevin Owens is on the show today for the very first time.

And I answer the question right out of the gate that I know a lot of you were asking. This was recorded before he announced on Smackdown that he has. out with a neck injury, that he needs surgery, that his WrestleMania match with Randy Orton is off. So it was hard for us to talk about that because it hadn't happened yet, but we covered so many things. This May marks 25 years since K.O. debuted, like since he made his wrestling debut.

And he was one of those guys who worked his tail off to make a name for himself on the Indies. He did it for 14 years. It wasn't until he was 14 years into his career that W.W.E. signed him. And since being in WWE over the last decade, he's pretty much done everything. He's a Grand Slam champion. He's main evented two WrestleMania, one of them against Stone Cold Steve Austin in his

first match in 19 years. And then he's also cut some of the most legendary promos over the last decade. And the thing that fascinates me about that is the fact that English isn't even his first language. It's amazing. What a story. K-O has, and I'm so grateful for the opportunity to share a conversation with him on this show. So thank you for being with us. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening.

Let us know what stood out for you and tag us. He's at Fight Owens Fight on X. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Kevin Owens. Well, it is great to officially meet you. Likewise. I feel like I had met every Canadian, but apparently not yet.

That was the last one. That's man standing. You're the last one. You don't live in Canada anymore, right? No, no, I live in Orlando now. It's slightly warmer there. Yeah, I mean, travel is easier and stuff like that, so we moved several years ago now.

Was French your first language? Yeah, yeah. And at what point did you learn English? I started watching wrestling when I was 11. So I kind of started picking it up then. My dad would watch TV in English, so I watched like some TV shows with them here and there. Like, I remember friends.

I watch a lot with them. And then I think, think I'd say by the time I was maybe 14, I couldn't really speak English that well, but I understood everything. And I'd like to say Jim Ross basically taught me English. And then, yeah, by the time I was maybe 17, I think I was fully bilingual, something like that. Did you understand what a slobernocker was? So I actually thought that Slavernapper knocker was part of the U.S. English language. I thought it was a normal word. And I would use it. And like, everyday life when it made no sense. So a lot of my friends from the wrestling school that were English

would like, that was one of the things they loved that it was, I spoke English, but like Jim Ross, which is why I say Jim Ross taught me English. And it made no sense. But I eventually I picked up like, oh, that's just a weird expression that he made up. Like, did you have a bit of an Oklahoma accent too? No, I don't think so. I think I had a very thick French accent for a long time that kind of dissipated over the years. It still comes out here and there. And you don't really have that much of a French accent. The thing the more tired I get, the more it comes out from what I hear. That's a thing? I guess.

That's what I'm told. I always sound the same to me. Are you speaking French at home? So I speak to my parents in French, but my wife, although she does speak French, is English. And my kids, you know, since they grew up in an English-speaking household, so we speak English. My son understands French, speaks it a little bit. my daughter's pretty clueless about French, but yeah. I learned, of course, high school French growing up in Canada.

That has helped me out zero in real life. Yeah, I really don't know how much. So my son does take French or was taking French in high school. And I guess it did help him a bit, but now that's done with. So, yeah. Like in real life, I don't need to ever say, just sweet two a, ill, LA, like. Yeah, I mean, unless you live in Quebec or in France, you probably would never really need that. But even, like, that's not even a real sentence, right?

Like I am, you are, like. I mean, you just said them in English. That is true. That is, but I feel like my high school, even before that, however, eight years of speaking French, I don't even know if I could order food. Yeah, well, thankfully, if you go almost anywhere they speak French, they also speak English, so you don't have to worry about it. So this year's 25 years in wrestling for you. Yeah. Does it feel like you've been doing this for well more than half your life?

Um, honestly no, because I feel like if I feel like I should feel way worse than I do physically for somebody who's done this for so long. And of course, there's been injuries here and there throughout the years, but I feel pretty good. You know, I wake up in the morning and maybe I'm a little sore, my back, sometimes, maybe my neck a little bit, my knees, not great, but man, like for all this stuff I've done and the style of wrestle for so long, to have a bit of knee pain. It's really not that big of a deal. In the day to day, is there something that, you know, like sitting on a plane for too long? Does that start to bother you? I mean, I think that's everyone, even people that don't do what we do.

Like you sit on a plane for five, six hours, your back might hurt and stuff like that. You know, I'll get maybe numbness in my fingers and hands from like just my elbows being like this. But, you know, you just shake it off. It's just, that's a very common thing for wrestlers too. Like, you sit on the plane for too long, it'll get pins and needles. Was the plan for you to debut on your 16th birthday? No, that just happened to be the day the first show I was booked on was. So it worked out pretty great.

What a birthday present? Yeah, yeah, it was awesome. Also, who's letting you train before you're 16? I started training when I was 14, in a barn, actually, back home. It was a local wrestler. It was really talented, very, you know, really good at the basics. He taught me well. I was only with him for about a month, though, because then the barn actually.

collapsed on the ring while nobody was there thankfully so then i went about a year with that wrestling school until jacques rujo the mountie opened his wrestling school in montreal i heard about it begged my parents to bring me there to try and uh see if i could join his school which i did and then uh i trained with him for a while although he was not really much part of the training it was mostly one of his already like one of the guys he had already trained in the past his name was eric is eric he's still around. So I was really trained by him, a really good guy. And yeah, and then I had my first show on May 7, 2000, yeah.

On your 16th birthday? That's amazing. Yeah. And then was the goal when you got into wrestling, was it always, I want to be in WWU? Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's all. I was watching Wrestling Millennium 11 when I was 11 years old.

My dad rented the tape. It was like a month after the show actually happened. And he just went to the, you know, local video store where we could rent tapes and whatever he was looking for a movie we had seen everything's like let's just rent this wrestling thing like okay i'd never really seen i knew what it was but i never really seen it and uh he wasn't like an avid fan or anything he was just let's watch something we don't usually watch and uh i was hooked pretty quick um like i really got into the first match i remember loving the british bulldog he was in the opener and i thought that guy

rules. And then as the night went on, all the matches I really enjoyed. And then Sean Michaels came out. And to me, at the time, I was 11 years old, but like I was so small for my age, people would think I was like seven or eight. And to me, seeing the smallest guy on the show by far, being the best, the best one. I was like, I could do that. And from that point on, that was it. That's all I wanted to do. I told my parents, the tape ended. I told my dad, that's what I'm going to do. Wow. And then And they cultivated my interest. I was very lucky. Like they could have told me, oh, don't be silly or whatever, you know, like most parents would, I guess.

But no, they went all in. They started buying all the pay-per-views for me, letting me stay up to watch Raw and, you know, Smackdown when it later came. And, yeah, they were 100% behind it from the start. What gave you the confidence to know that you could do it? Because if this is the mid-90s, there's not a lot of Canadians there doing it. No, I don't really know, honestly. I just kind of didn't, I didn't know enough about it.

to know that, oh, this is a very hard thing to accomplish. To me, it was just like, I'm going to do this. I'll figure out a way. So the first step was trying to find a wrestling school, but obviously I had to grow up a little bit, right? So when I was 14, my mom's actually the one who found the wrestling school that was in the barn because somebody at her work mentioned that he knew this guy who was a wrestler and trained wrestlers and she happened over here.

And she asked him about it. And the guy was like, yeah, so they actually have a show. this weekend. It's very funny because where my mom worked is a very small village in Quebec. And every year they have the corn festival, which is literally a week-long celebration of corn. You just go and eat corn and there's a bunch of shit you can do, but it's all based on corn. Anyway, so a staple of the corn festival is a wrestling show that they would put on, like outside in the middle of a field. A corn field, of course. Actually, it was a minor league baseball.

Yeah, yeah. So we went because the guy that runs a school was wrestling there, and we went to meet him. And that was it. He told me, yeah, come to this place in a week, and we'll see what happens. So that's all it all started. My mom found this place when I was 14. And that was my first time in the ring.

Yeah, from then on. But there's not really, there wasn't a path before. that. No, you really didn't know, which is funny because, well, once I join Jacques Rujo's wrestling school, obviously he had the WVE connection as far as we knew because he had wrestled there. So of course, like I met him and I was like, oh, this is a big deal. Like, there's a guy I watched the WVETV.

Like, whoa. And in Quebec, the Ruzzo name means a lot. It's, you know, that family, you know, is legendary for wrestling in Quebec. So it's a really big deal for me to meet him, really big deal for me to train with him. Over the years, though, I was probably at this wrestling school for three years. We just had different, you know,

different mentalities and different values and just different points of view on life and wrestling as well. And he would run his wrestling school a certain way where he would run shows every three, four months, only one or two shows every three, four months, but he would do them in like 2,000-seat arenas. And because of his name, you'd get like 1,000 people or 1,500 people, you know. So it was great to wrestle in front of those types of crowd,

but you can only wrestle once every three, four months. So I wanted to wrestle. Like, I by that point, I kind of figured out like, I got to get more experience, you know. But he wouldn't let us wrestle on smaller, you know, wrestling companies around Quebec just because he was like, I don't want you guys to get hurt. I don't want you guys to pick up bad habits from other wrestlers, this and that. But what he would dangle is I'm your way to WWE, which, you know, we didn't know any better.

And we bought it. And but then about, I'd say, three years in, I think he had some health issues that led to him not running shows. So when he said, I'm not going to be able to run shows for a while, we're like, well, you got to let us go wrestle somewhere else. And he said, okay, fine. So all the students from his wrestling school started wrestling all over Quebec. And I was booked every weekend, everywhere. And, you know, that's where I met Sammy. Like, I met a lot of people and I just started wrestling every weekend multiple times a week.

And it was such a blast. I loved this so much. And then about six months after he, or maybe less than that, three months after he started, you know, we started doing that, he pulled it back and said, look, I need you guys to stop wrestling everywhere because now WWV is coming for Raw soon. And I secured a tryout for two of my guys. He says it's going to be me and another, the other guy. Eric, the trainer. He said, but if you want that, you have to stop wrestling everywhere else. You have to sign a 10-year contract with me as your agent. That guarantees me 15% of your contract. And I couldn't care less about the money. I couldn't care less about him. I'm like, yeah,

whatever. But I don't want to stop wrestling anywhere else. Until that the tryout, I have to keep wrestling. He fought me on it, fought me on it. And then eventually he called me, It was in November of 2003. And I was wrestling for IWS at that point in Montreal, which was like the biggest wrestling company in Montreal, and it was a lot of fun, and I just loved wrestling there so much. And he called me the day after what I thought was going to be my last show with them

because I'm like, I can't wrestle anymore. So he called me, it's okay. So, I don't know, he just started talking about the tryout, and the Ross coming, and I'm like, when is Raw? He's like, I don't know, they haven't announced it yet, but it's coming soon. And I'm like, but when is it? He's like, I don't know.

I'm like, well, is it in three months and six months? And he got, like, annoyed with me. And then I was like, something just doesn't feel right. Like, I really don't want to stop wrestling. And as soon as I said that, he's like, all right, fine, you made your decision. And he hung up on me. That was the last time I spoke to him. And from that point, I was like, all right, fuck it.

I'm going to go do whatever I need to do anywhere. And, uh, yeah. Even to this day? Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Growing up, why was Owen Hart, your guy? So I have a brother that's 10 years older than me.

And, you know, as brothers do, we'd fight a lot when we were kids, you know. And because he was 10 years older than he was a lot stronger than me. So he would, you know, he always won. Let's put it that way. So when I was younger, I couldn't help but have a bit of resentment towards him, which is not the case. You know, I love him. But, you know, when you're a kid, you feel differently about things.

And I remember, so I watched WrestleMania 11. And, you know, I like Brett Hart enough after WrestleMania 11. But then I started going backwards and watching the shows that were before WrestleMania 11. I rented all the tapes. And I believe it was a Royal Rumble of that same year. Brett's wrestling Diesel. And in the match, he tries to tie Diesel's legs up with the camera wires. And to me, that's cheating.

He's cheating. This is terrible. Why is he cheating? And then Owen comes into frame to try to fight Brett. And to me, I'm like, yeah, that's the right thing to do. Trying to keep him from cheating. And he's the younger brother trying to fight off the older brother. So I was like, Owen Hart's my guy.

Like, that was it. You know, it was like the dynamic between me and my older brother and him and his older brother is what made me like him at first. And then obviously he was an incredible wrestler. and very charismatic, very entertaining. So, yeah, I just become a huge fan of his. And your name is tribute to him. If you couldn't be Kevin Owens in WWE,

what was your name going to be? I don't really know. So my name is actually, so we also share the same birthday. And I, when Owen passed away, I remember thinking, if I ever have a son, I'm going to call him Owen. And then, you know, several years passed, obviously.

And then in 2007, my wife got pregnant. And thankfully, she was on board with calling him Owen, which was even crazier because we visited an apartment that we were going to move into while she was pregnant. And the tenants that lived there previously had left some stuff behind. And on the door of what was going to be our son's bedroom was, like, in letters, like, wooden letters that they had put on the door was the name of the kid that was there previously and the name was Owen. Wow.

Yeah, so it was like, she was like, that definitely has to be his name. Like, yeah, all right. So it's actually more of a tribute to my son, but my son's a tribute to Owen, you know? So it's actually Triple H who suggested I be Kevin Owens. We were going back and forth on names and nothing really, you know, nothing really sounded right. And then one day Hunter just said, because I had pitched some Owen something. And he's like, what about Kevin Owens? I'm like, yeah, I love it.

So we went with it. And I remember after it kind of, I guess, WD trademarked it, so, you know, the websites found out about it and it started going online. Obviously, it's going to be Kevin Steen's name. I got to the performance center, and for some reason, I forgot my key cards. I had to go through the front, and I'm waiting for somebody to open the door. And the door swings open, and it's dusty. And he's walking in front of me. He goes, Kevin Owen, huh?

And I go, yeah, you like it? And he goes, nope. Who came up with it? I go, Triple H. And he goes, I love it. Yeah. He was the best, man. Yeah, so that was it from then on.

Do you, were you watching over the Edge in 99 live? Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. It was really rough. The next night was, it was crazy, too, for a kid at that point, for me, I was, and, you know, you could ask anyone that knew me back then. And look, my dad, especially, like, he said it in interviews before. four ladies down for WWE.

From the time I was 11, when I saw WrestleMania 11, to, I mean, from the rest of my life, all I cared about. All I cared about was wrestling. I stopped playing other sports when I discovered wrestling. I couldn't care less about anything else. That's all I did, 24-7, 24-7.

That's it. That was it. I never got in trouble when I was a kid because I couldn't get in trouble. I was at home watching wrestling. Like my parents knew where I was all the time. I was watching wrestling. That's all I did.

So to me, all these wrestlers were the most important people in my life. They were like my friends. And I remember the night after on Raw when they're celebrating Owen's life and everybody's talking about how a great guy he was and everything and they're all just pouring their hearts out. It was so, I mean, it felt like I lost a friend, you know? And I think a lot of people probably felt that way. And the same thing, you know, when Eddie Guerrero passed and all that stuff.

Like you watch, you watch these guys so. for so long, you know, you just become so attached to them. And I just can't imagine what the, and you know, I've discussed this with people that knew him. I've talked about Owen with people that knew him and met him. And, yeah, he just seems like a very, very special person. And I just can't imagine how hard it was to lose him that way for all those guys and all those people.

And obviously his family as well, I just can't even imagine, you know. This episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. This has happened to me before. I'm sure it's happened to you as well. You sign up for something, forget about it after the trial period ends, then you're charged. Month after month after month, the subscriptions are there, but you're not using them. In fact, I just learned that 85% of people have at least one paid subscription going unused each month. Thanks to Rocket Money, I can see all my subscriptions in one place and cancel the ones I'm not using anymore.

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You know, it was me, my wife, and my son. And, yeah, by that point, I remember actually one specific afternoon in 2013, where my son was at, I think he was at kindergarten or whatever. We'd pick him up in the afternoon, but me and my wife went to the dog park with our dog to like 1 p.m. on a Wednesday or something. And I'm throwing the ball around and watching my dog run around. And I remember thinking, it was a beautiful day. And I remember thinking, man, I get to do this on a Wednesday at 1 p.m. I don't have to be, you know, I worked in a warehouse.

I've worked in jobs that I didn't like that I just had to do, you know? And I remember feeling so grateful and thankful. And I think I even sent out a tweet right then and there thanking like everyone that's supports independent wrestling for allowing me to literally be at the dog park with my dog at 1 p.m., you know. So things were pretty good, and I had accepted that it probably wasn't going to happen, and I was really okay with it until it became a possibility. Like, I remember Super Dragon messaged me saying William Regals coming to Bola, Battle of Los Angeles.

And from that, as soon as he said that, I was like, everything shifted. I'm like, oh, that's it. That's it. So, yeah, that it kind of like lit a fire back, you know, like I remember Sammy signing his contract. And that was like, bittersweet because I was so happy for him. And he signed it in front of me. We're in the car together. And he signed it in front of me. And I was really happy for him. But it was bittersweet. And at the time, I was still under contract with Ring of Honor. So even if WW had expressed any interest, which they hadn't, I couldn't have done anything about it, you know? I had two years left. So, but in those two years, I really accepted that, eh, this is, it's probably not going to happen and it's fine. And then I started talking to Ring of Honor about a new contract coming up. But then that's when, yeah, Regal is going to be at Bola. So I'm like, maybe this is my chance, you know. So I had the match with Johnny Gargano at Battle of Los Angeles. We rocked the house.

We came back, Riegel told us we had a really great match, congratulated us, gave us a bit of advice, which was, really great to see. Him acknowledged that it was the first time I saw an old school wrestler, acknowledged that while this may not be his style or the way he would do things, for the crowd that we were in front of, that was perfect because they ate up everything. Everything. He's like, so who am I to come here and tell you guys that you did it wrong? You didn't.

You did it absolutely right. I had seen other guys, you know, that had been in WWE and stuff like that, that veterans that could be a positive influence on wrestlers just tear us down. Like one, I remember one came to a Ring of Honor show and tore up the main event that was a fatal four way and just told all the guys how stupid they were and you shouldn't have done that. Why'd you do this like this? Why did you do that? That should have been the finish. The crowd ate up everything, everything. to a degree, I will add that that particular guy had never had a crowd in his life.

I watched his matches. He never had a crowd going like those guys did. So it was so refreshing to see William Regal have that, you know, that outlook. And then I remember he left and I was like, well, if it leads to something great, but if not, just the kind of words he had for me, I was like, this is just a career holiday for me. and then like a week later, Sarah Del Rey, who was a trainer at WWB at that time, messaged me saying, would you have interest in coming in for a tryout? And I was like, yeah, absolutely.

So then it actually took quite a while to get it. This was probably in September or October of 2013. And I didn't get my trial until March of 2014 because I was still a Ring of Honor. Ring of Honor was agreed to let me go to the tryout, but I couldn't do it in December. Like, WW wanted me to, I had to wait a little longer. So I did in March. And, yeah.

WWP posted a video on their YouTube channel saying, this is the promo that got Kevin Steen hired. Is that actually? Was that it? Yeah. So the trial was, tryouts are hard. They're very hard. They're very physically demanding.

They're basically like blow up drills. reals nonstop. And it's really not about trying to see if you're in amazing shape, because they can mold you into shape at the performance center. It's really to see the heart you have and the attitude you have. And, you know, I was at this tryout, and there were so many guys that were jacked to the gills that you'd think, like, oh, these guys are amazing athletes for sure. These guys are as good as signed.

And they fell like flies left and right. but me and Willie Mac were probably the guys that were in the least athletic shape there. We weren't, you know, beating records of speed in these drills, but we were doing them

and we weren't stopping. So we showed, you know, the heart that they were looking for and the attitude where they were looking for, I think. And you weren't willing to give up. No, and I actually had to at one point, not give up, but like one of the drills on the second day,

you know, from sheer exhaustion is very hard. you're like jumping over like a heavy bag to do drop downs and I landed like my hand crook and I thought I broke my wrist. So I had to stop that particular drill and I was really upset because in my head I'm like, oh shit, like that's going to hurt me. And then, but then so right after it happened is when they sent us back to the gym to like get a break. And then Matt Bloom, who at the time was not the head trainer of the PC, was just one of the trainers. It's like, come here. So I went, and it was just me, and Canyon Seaman and all the trainers were lined up,

and they were like, cut a promo. So I cut that promo. And then they were like, okay, thanks. And then I walked away. So they didn't tell you to prepare a promo? No. That was just off the top of your head? I mean, I had prepared one because I knew I was going to have to.

Yeah. So I had, I knew what I was, like, I knew the basis of what I was going to say. But I was ready. But they just dropped it on us. And like, the promos were supposed to be the next day. But they just asked me to do it right there. Who was it in your career early on that told you like you got to work on your mic work? Stone Cold, actually.

So I knew that the guys that I cared for the most in wrestling were always the guys that could talk. So I knew it was important. But, and you know, I made it a point throughout my career to have engaging and interesting promos. But the one that really drove the point home was in 2005. And, you know, if people watch. my work before then, they'll see that I was already, you know, very, you know, vocal. And even when I'd wrestle, sometimes it's not even about a promo in the middle of my matches, I'd be doing, like, running commentary and stuff. And I think that became a good part of, like, why I was appealing on

the indies. But in 2005, me and Sammy were on our way to a PWG show. And we're connecting in, I want to say Dallas. And as we're walking to our gates, I think Sammy is like, well, I'm going to sit down here and he sits there. We're waiting. And I'm walking to, and I'm walking to go get some water and I see Stone Cold standing on the corner. So I go back to Sammy and I go, I've told this story before. I was like, hey, come on. I didn't want to alert there. I was like, come on, come on.

He's like, what? We're going to go see Stone Cold. He's like, what? And he stands up and follows me and goes, who are we going to fight? And I go, what are you talking about? He's like, you want to go fight somebody? I'm like, no, we're going to go see Stone Cold. And then he looks and goes, that's not, oh, shit, it is.

So we approached him, you know, as subtly as we could. And he was cool. It was so cool. We told him we're independent professional wrestlers on our way to a show in L.A. And he started asking us about, you know, what we were doing, how it was going, the state of independent wrestling and stuff like that. So we talked for maybe 10 minutes. It was great. It was just so great.

We took a couple pictures that are out there now. There's a picture of me and Steve from that day. And then they called First Class, which obviously he was on and we were not. There's a funny story after that, actually. So they called for his class, so he's like, all right, guys, I'm going to see you on the plane. But then I went, hey, we have to ask. Just if you have one piece of advice, one, what is it? And he goes, just never stop running your mouth.

Just run your mouth. And then he looked at Sammy and goes, that planch of shit will kill you. But just run your mouth. And then he left. And I was like, that's it. And then I started doing just that. And then funny enough, we were like, 38, like all the way in the back.

And we could see from afar, like his bald head in the front. So we should do something cool for him. Oh, yeah. Let's buy him a beer. And then we're like, we asked the flight on, can we buy a beer for the guy in row three? And she goes, we don't even buy it. What? She goes, he's in first class.

It's free. Oh, okay. But yeah. So that's it. That was it. I did. And then I took that to heart, man. I just ran my mouth a lot, sometimes too much.

Probably said stuff, definitely said stuff I shouldn't have said. But it was all the guys of trying to, I don't know, man, I just needed people to care. Like I, as small or as big as the matches might be, I approached every match with just this needs to, whoever sees it, it needs to stand out and they need to remember it. And that's really what I approach everything I do, and always done in wrestling. I remember like a few weeks ago, a few months ago, some interview that AJ did where he talked about how wrestling is more about moments than matches.

That was in my show. So I've actually been saying this, and I'm not saying he took it from me, but I've been saying this stuff for 15 years. Matches, people will remember matches, but they'll remember those matches because of specific moments in the matches, and they'll remember moments that aren't in matches

because the moments are memorable. So I really do think AJ's dead on. it's about creating special moments, whether it's in a match or outside of a match, leading to a match, whatever. So yeah, that's it. I just kind of tried to make every time I'm in the ring a moment people will remember.

It's amazing that you've become known as a promo guy when English isn't even your first language. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that was really, the whole Stone Cold's advice was very crucial in that because I really just took it to heart, started talking all the time. But also, man, like, as corny as in my sense,

sound you'll hear wrestlers give advice to you know up and coming wrestlers like oh you know practice your promos in the mirror and stuff like that that's i mean if i was driving anywhere in a car going anywhere i was cutting promos to myself in the car about anything like wrestling wise you know like i'd pretend i'm i have a match with the miss in two weeks you know and stuff like that or uh if and if i'm in an independent match like i have an independent show coming up i'm cutting promos about that guy and stuff like that and i really did that and it was just not I wasn't forcing myself to do it to practice. It was literally just this is what my brain does, you know?

So, yeah, I think all that was pretty crucial in getting me there. But you add such a level of realism. Like when you're mad at someone, it actually seems like you're mad. Like when you feuded with Sammy, it's like, wait, are they not friends anymore? Well, that's very easy because I've known him for so long. So it's very easy to access the anger when it comes to Sammy. because, man, if people were around him for that long, they all understand. So you put a little extra in those power bombs?

No, no, I just give them as hard as I ever have. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's just there is something to it. And like, I don't like tooting my own horn or anything like that. But I will say that some guys in what we do manage to have a more genuine, stronger connection with the audience than others. And some just have it. And I think I for some reason fall into that category. But, you know, I really wouldn't really be able to tell you why.

I think probably a lot of it is I'm just a fan. And people will, you know, like I've heard people trying to knock me, like knock me with this. Like, he looks like a fan. Like, yeah, I am a fan, dude. I just managed to fool everybody into thinking that I could do this. And now I get to do it. So I think that helps, you know. I kind of just attack, like, the moments I'm trying to create or the matches I have,

I try to do them so that I, if I'm watching them, will I like it? Yeah, that's what I'd like to see. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that probably helps in the, my genuine, you know, the genuine connection I have with the fans is because I'm really just, I am one. If people are trying to point at you and say, he doesn't look like a wrestler, he looks like a fan, you've kind of broken the mold. Yeah, I mean, I still get it all the time, but I really, it's, the people that feel like that's a knock or an insult are just, it's very stupid, you know, I'm, I'm so comfortable with how I look. I always have been, which is probably what's driven so many people crazy. You know, because my weight has fluctuated over the years for sure. There were times where I was much heavier than I am now. And, you know, there were reasons for that. And we'll say, well, you weren't working out enough. You were eating like shit. Yeah.

That's true, but it never hindered my work. So you might have not liked looking at me the way I looked at that point, but I was having killer matches either way. I was able to talk better than most people on the roster, and that never changed. So now I've lost weight because honestly, I haven't done anything. This is the funny part. I haven't done, I haven't done anything to lose weight. I didn't set out and go, I'm going to lose weight.

I really didn't. Just my weight fluctuates a lot. I might be a little more active in my everyday life than I was for a while, you know, whatever it may be or my, I don't know, my metabolism, I really have no idea. But yeah, right now I've shed some pounds. Uh, I might put more on. I really don't know, but I've never made a conscious choice to be heavier or be, you know, lighter or look better. And man, that really drives a lot of people crazy. But, uh, but nobody can question your athleticism. Nobody can question that you have strength. And I think that people want to look at someone like you and go,

well, he's, he's clearly not athletic. It's like, well, you can't question that. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. There's just, I don't know. I mean, it's like everyone. They'll, there'll be fans that will look at guys that are in incredible shape and still find something wrong, you know? So, yeah, some people are just born to discredit other people because of their own shortcomings, I guess. As stupid as it sounds, you know, like, oh, they're just jealous. There probably is something to that, to a level, even if the people that are, you know, if you spend most of your time trying to tear other people down, even, you know, subconsciously, there's kind of something with you that's the problem.

It says more about that person. I would say so. And it does about you. Yeah. And like the thing that I can't stand, we're going on a tangent about just everyday life, but it's very applicable to wrestling as well. And even wrestling promos, I'd say. I don't like when people will try to put something over or give,

you know, express something like, this guy is so good. But they'll say, this guy is so much better than that guy. That I hate. I can't stand that. Why tear someone down to try to express how good somebody else is? You know what I mean? And, yeah. Isn't that the whole thing in wrestling that you're trying to end up the other guy?

Yeah, I think there's great value to that basic piece of advice, which, you know, I've heard for a long time. I couldn't tell you who first said it, but they're very right. If you tear down your opponent, then you beat a loser. If you build them up, you beat a winner. But at the same time, I can see the appeal of, because even right now I'm saying, like, I don't find anything more unlikable than someone who tears someone else down to bring themselves back up. So, well, if you're trying to be a heel, isn't that what you want to do? So, you know, there's like, and I've applied, like, stuff that I see on everyday life that I can't stand.

I've tried to apply that to my heel character because, man, I really hate when people do that, so I'll do it. Like what? Well, when I was doing the face of America that Chelsea stole her gimmick from. And it's so ironic that it's a Canadian that's the face of America. Yeah. I would just try to act with a smugness in my promos that I would see certain. people in charge of the United States the way they had it. And I'm like, man, if I can kind of capture that, it's so incredibly unlikable.

And I tried. I don't know if I really did. And eventually that gimmick died quite quickly because Jinder Mahal, Roussev, we can't have another foreign anti-America heel. That's over. What do I do? Just go back to being chaos. All right.

It was that simple. So, yeah. How did you get Stone Cold out of retirement? Well, I didn't do it. I feel like you had a, you played a role in this. I really didn't. I really didn't. I don't know the exact story and how it all unfolded.

I will say this part. A couple of years before this happened, I was doing the pop of power bomb as my finishing move and everyone was doing power bombs. I would see a lot of guys doing power bombs. I'm like, man, everybody's kind of doing power bombs right now. I think I need another finishing move. And I'm like, what could I, do. And I'm like, well, the greatest finishing move of all time to me is the stone cold stunner.

And nobody does it. Some people will do it here and there. I actually have done it once against Roman in Texas. And I only did it because we're in Texas. But it was just a one-time thing. But then when I was trying to figure out, I need a finishing move. I'm like, man, Stone Cold Stunner is it. But before I could do that, I had to ask Steve. for permission. I could not do it. I could not like, you know, like I said, I'd used it on the Indies once. Actually, I did his podcast on the Indies. Like, while I was on the Indies, I happened to do his podcast. So two days later at a Ring of Honor show, I used the stunner just because I'd just done his podcast or whatever. It was kind of a topical. And then I used it against Roman once. But I'm like, if I'm going to use it on a regular basis of

finishing move, I have to make sure he's okay with it. So I happened to run into him at a show in Baltimore that he was at for Raw. So I went in, talk to, like we talked. And it was funny because, like I said, I saw him in 2005. Then for years, didn't see him at all. And then in 2012, I was a ring of honor. I was at the top of Ring of Honor.

It was probably the top guy on the Indies at that point. And I was listening to Stone Cold's podcast all the time. And at the end of his podcast, he'd always say, if you have any questions, send it to like questions at BSR, whatever his website was. So I said, I'm going to send him an email. Thanking him for the advice he gave me all those years ago. And maybe he'll answer, but it might have him like, maybe he'll even have me on his podcast.

And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. I emailed them in 2005 of the airport. You gave me great advice. You know, and my career's flourished since, thank you. And he wrote back, like, I actually do, I remember that. So you want me on my podcast? And I'm like, yeah. So he goes, okay, I have Jim Cornett as my guest on this podcast.

And, you know, we'll, you know, I'll, you know, I'll do an hour with Jim and then your part will be after like we'll do 10 minutes with you. I'm like, great. And then he calls me and goes, hey, I don't know what happened, but Cornett, Cornett's not answering. So let's just do the whole podcast together. I was like, yes, finally Jim Cornett does something good for me. So yeah, we did the whole podcast, talked for like an hour. And when it came out the next day, it was a huge deal because he hadn't really done a podcast with an independent guy at that point. I think maybe Colt had had done his podcast. by that point, but that was it.

So it was a huge deal for me, and the fans were really excited, and they listened to conversation. And I think that really helped. At the end of the podcast, he goes, WW should take a look at this guy. And it wasn't long after, I'd already had the, I'd already had the communication with them. But I think that helped in, like, making it more serious

and making more of a priority almost. And then years later, here we are running into each other at WWE. You know, and I had to tell them just how crucially was in helping me get there. So anyway, and then I asked him, like, I want to do the Stone Cold Stunner as my finisher, and I just want to make sure you're okay with it. And he said, yeah, I can't, I actually can't believe nobody's asked me already yet. So yeah, please go ahead. So I was really pumped. And then I went to Vince and asked him if I could, and he said, no. I was like, no, you can't do that. Okay. Then years went by, and I got her.

hurt. I went away for a bit and I came back as a baby face. And my first match back was a tag team match against Eric Rowan and Brian, Daniel Bryan, who was doing the, you know, the, you know, protecting the earth, yeah. And I had to go over. I had to beat Brian that night. And they're like, well, what do you want to do? That's a stolen cold stunter. And they said, okay. All right. And that was it. From then on, Stunner became my finish. And so I would have to admit, tie him back to how he came back. When I asked him to use the Stone Cold Stunner, yes, I wanted a new finishing move, and yes, I think it's the greatest finish of all time.

But there was a big part of me who thought, in the unlikely event, which won't happen, but if he ever were to come back for a match, it's going to be against the guy who was doing his finishing. And that's exactly what happened. So I don't think that played a part in it. I think Vince wanted him to be on the WrestleMania in Dallas and he wasn't sure in what capacity. And I'm not sure how.

I think they talked. He said no at first from what I understand. he said no and then they went back to him and he's like okay who would it be with and i think they that's when they said me which i think he was he was he was good with and then it somehow was it was was it was it was going to be a talking segment was it going to be a match was it going to be a stunner was it what is it going to be that literally up until the day of the show we had no idea me and Steve had talked. I would talk to Steve.

Ask him, what are we going to do? And you go, I don't know. Depends on Vince. So I talked to Vince. And then it's go, I don't know. Depends on Steve. And I'm like, can't you guys talk to each other for fuck's sake? But, yeah, up until that day, we really didn't know for sure what it was going to be.

And turned out to be what it was. And it was pretty great. That's pretty incredible. Yeah, yeah. I really, I'm very lucky to have been a part of it. It's to this day the craziest thing that I'll ever have done in my career, and I don't think anything will top it just because of how, like, even me and Sammy went in the tag titles of WrestleMania was unbelievable in the main event,

which is great now because, you know, WrestleMania main event night one, it's like it's always been, there's a lot of people that argue like it's not really the main event. But now that punk's in it this year, everyone says it is the main event, because you don't want to take that away from them. So now it finally validates that, yeah, We've made them at the wrestling. We've got two of them.

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, you know, winning the titles at WrestleMania together was insane, like crazy. Like we were talking about this stuff when, like, our dream would be, hey, let's win the Ring of Honor tag titles. Like, we're talking about this in like 2004. And then we never even really talked about winning the WWE tag titles because we're not going to be in WWE, are we? No, we are. And then we started talking, man, we got a team and win the tag titles. And then we teamed for a little bit in 2018, but then we went our seven.

separate ways. So we're like, ah, we didn't even win the tag titles. And we kind of thought, well, I guess that's it. But then the story started shift with him and the Usoes and stuff. And anyway, all the pieces fell into place. And we won the tag titles of WrestleMania as incredible and kind of unlikely as that moment was. It still wasn't as unlikely as Stone Cold coming back 19 years later for a match. So to this day, that match with Steve will always be. And like I said, I don't think anything will top it, the craziest night of my career. He said quite a few times that he was stiffering you in that match. Oh, yeah.

Do you feel like he was? Yeah. Yeah. He actually, the night after, like the night of the match after when I go back to my hotel, my earlobe was swollen like this big. And I went, because from his punches. And I went and it just splattered against the mirror. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, he was. And he kept things like, you didn't give me any receipts. What am I going to do? Slap the shit out of stone cold. But honestly, in that moment, too, like, I felt the bunches, but there weren't any words than anything I felt before, you know? But to him, that shows how much of a pro he is. Like, you know, Brett has always prided himself on how he's never hurt anyone. You can barely feel him in the ring and stuff.

And that's amazing. And I think Steve was the same way, you know? So he prided himself on not killing people. And that night, he knew he was killing me. But to me, it was, you know, it's not any worse than. other guys. So, yeah. What kind of stunners sell do you like the best?

Because we've seen just a litany of ways to take the stunner. Some guys just go overboard, which I think ends up making the stunner itself look terrible. Like, I've seen guys do like standing moonsaults on it. And I find that so dumb. I've had to tell a guy, do not standing moonsault on my stunner, please. You did it the other week, and it's stupid. But, you know, Scott Hall at this amazing cell that people still remember. And now, Austin Theory, it's, it's so over the top, but somehow he nails it.

The timing is perfect. The way he does it is perfect. So I love those kinds of cell. But I like a good, just like dropping and you just kind of see the guy's head go, like, you know. Like a curt angle cell. Yeah. Or Shane, actually. I think Shane always took a little.

really good stunner. And one of the most underrated stunners, I think, was Jerry Lawler. When Steve, it's, he, I don't know if it was the only time he hit it on him, but Steve's reading like a paper is in 97, I believe that, you know, maybe Vince sent him or whatever. And he's, and like, Jerry's trying to read over his shoulder. And Steve just stuns him. And, man, Jerry, like, I don't know, it just, you see, like, it's really good. Yeah. I always love the Santino cell. He would still, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty. Yeah. I mean, there's all kinds of different ones. Like I said, I don't like the ones that are more about trying to make people go,

well, did you see how he sold it than trying to make the move look good? And I think theory actually has a perfect, everyone goes, holy shit, did you see that? But it makes it, he still managed to make the move look good. He goes just his reaction. Goes like 14 feet in air. He's got some, he's got some very impressive vertical, vertical leaps. When you talk about wrestling being about moments, I couldn't believe watching that segment where you headbutted Vince McMahon because there's nothing fake about that.

What was the setup to that moment? He just talked all kinds of shit. He's shaking my hand and just saying, I don't remember what he said, but he's definitely very, he was really trying to provoke me because he wanted to make sure I was going to lay in that headbut. Little did he know I was already planning on laying it in because I worked for him for two years at that point. I wasn't going to miss that chance, you know? So I did. And yeah, it was a pretty insane moment. When you came up with the blood and everything, I was like, whoa, here we go.

But my favorite part of that whole thing was after, it's a moment that was only seen. I don't think it was on TV, maybe only caught by digital. As I'm everybody standing to Vince, I'm walking at the back and I turn around to look at the ring. I'm just looking at the ring and I hear kind of like a rumble in the crowd. and I go to turn. And as I turn, Stephanie's right there in my face. And she's looking at me. She looks furious.

And she just looks at me, goes, get the fuck to the back. And I go, okay. Turn around and all that left. I really like that. I really like Stephanie a lot. She's been, she's been such a great, like just, she's been so supportive of not just me, but everybody. Like, you know, when Hunter was running NXT and we all got there at the same time,

like a lot of us, like my crop of NXT guys, like, you know, me, Sammy, Finn, Bailey, Becky, you know, that crew, Charlotte. Stephanie would be at the NXT shows quite a bit, you know, and she was just always so supportive and so just proud of us. And, yeah, it was great. It was like that whole generation of NXT man was so special. not just because of the talent there, but the support we had

from all the trainers to, you know, like, dusty, Hunter and Stephanie, they really felt like we were, to a degree, like, kind of their kids, and they were trying to, like, get us out into the world. And, yeah, that was really special

to be around that kind of energy. And, yeah. Was the plan to bust him open? Or were they just, the by-profit? of headbutting him really hard. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I wasn't, I didn't expect it.

So I don't know if he did. What a moment. Yeah. You think we might see a match with you and Matthew McConaughey? I would love that. I really would. So a couple years ago, he came to a show. And I didn't get to meet him.

And he's actually my favorite actor. So I really wanted to meet him. But when I saw the line of people waiting to meet him, I was like, okay, I'm not going to crowd this guy anymore than he already is being crowded. like, you know, people trying to take pictures with them for their Instagram. I just want to tell them like, hey, frailty is a amazing movie. Oh, is that your go-to McConaughey film?

Yeah, it's my first, it's the first movie I saw him in. I was like, that guy's, that guy rules. Anyway, so didn't get to talk to him or nothing. But I heard at that point that he really loved wrestling a lot and that he might even be interested in doing something in wrestling one day, like a match. I was like, what? They're like, yeah, I don't know. He said, like, oh, you know, maybe we'll have a match one day. I'm like, oh, man, I want to wrestle him.

So then I did an interview after WrestleMania. I think it was the one with Steve. The week after I did, like, Corey Graves' podcast. And he asked me, like, next year is WrestleMania. Who did you like to wrestle? And I threw out Matthew McConaughey. So I'm like, why not? So since then I've said it in a few interviews here and there.

But then obviously back in January, they pulled me a sign. They're like, hey, Matthew McConaugh is coming to the show. Do you want to do something with him? I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I do. They were like, okay. And then they were kind of going back and forth what we could do.

And in the end, they're like, well, we're not really going to do anything, but hey, if you want to talk shit to him, he'll be in the front row. So I'm like, okay. So he didn't even know it was going to happen? No, no, yeah. And then he got into it.

And it was great. It was a good time, man. It was fun. Like, he totally, you know, he went for it. And it's cool. Yeah, you can tell he's a wrestling fan. Yeah, big time.

The way he was like, come on. Yeah, yeah. It was cool, man. And yeah, if he ever wants to step in the ring, I'm happy to make sure he never does it again after. These t-shirts you've been wearing over the last few months, where do you come up with these ridiculous ideas? Well, I buy a lot of my friends' t-shirts

just because I like to support and I generally like the t-shirts. And I don't, I'm not a fancy dresser, if anybody would believe that. You know, a pair of Zubaz shorts and a wrestling t-shirt is pretty much... Or a band t-shirt like today. Yeah, this is it. Yeah, pretty much the only band. But, so I'll buy a lot of t-shirts. I have a lot of wrestling t-shirts, current and past.

And as it turns out, the nature of our industry makes it though that so that sometimes my friends become my enemies and then I have all these nice shirts to wear. Or in the instance of the last few months, I end up deciding to get a shirt from someone's prior gimmick that he really didn't like. But where am I going to get a shirt like that? And it has to be a WW license shirt. I just can't wear any shirt. So I scour the internet to try to find a genuine WWE approved Stardust T-shirt.

And turns out Walmart.com. What? In a box in some warehouse that someone probably had to like go up 10, you know, 10 levels of the scaffolding to try to pull it and blow up the dust. Like, yeah, I found that. I found a couple other ones. that I will not get to wear I don't think, but like legacy T-shirts,

the legacy with Randy, Cody, and Ted DiBiossi. So I have a few of those that will never see the light of day. They're just sitting in my closet. And then like, yeah, so many other shirts of just all kinds of people. Or just the parodies of the classic shirts. Yeah. I mean, those were just really, they're just right there, you know? The son of a security systems technician,

the little tribute to my dad, too. Even saying that out loud is so funny. And that one, well, even the Cody Sucks X one, what was cool about it is after I wore it, Nick Con was texting me goes, those shirts are amazing. And like a week, like, not a week, like an hour later, it's like they're up, they're up for sale now. When I made them, I'm like, I'm not looking to sell these. I'm just doing it to bought myself. Yeah. But they, they, people responded to them so much, you know.

So it's cool. It's like, it's nice. It's just like a little Easter egg for me, you know. Well, and it's also nice to like being able to, like, being able to. say to the fans like, hey, you're in on this too. Yeah, I've said this before, man. Our fans are very smart. People pay attention.

People remember stuff. And even the ones that don't get it, because, you know, not ever, like 12-year-old kid's not going to understand the security systems technician thing. But maybe his dad will get it and then tell him and then the kids, oh, wow, that's cool. Yeah. One of my favorite ones actually was the Naomi T-shirt because Jimmy didn't see it before the match. He only saw it once I was walking out. So that was pretty cool.

And it's funny because I didn't have a Naomi T-shirt. I had to make it because, you know, I wear whatever, Excel. And the only shirts they had of Naomi was like medium, which is the short, or maybe even small, the shirt that she wears. So like, well, all we have is small. So I had Surat cut her logo of her t-shirt and then sew it onto one of the Kevin Owen's shirt

just so I could wear it for the match. But, yeah, it was cool. I love Naomi, too. So I'm glad I was able to. support. She didn't seem to really be happy about it on Twitter after, but it's okay. We're in such a different era of wrestling right now, and it felt like you were really acknowledging that when you turned on Cody at Bad Blood, and there were no WWE cameras to capture it. Yeah. And it's basically saying, like, oh, we're doing it. And I know that spot in Atlanta where you did it at the

arena. There was like a fan bridge that took you in and out of the arena. It's like you knew if you guys had this thing happening there, a bunch of people would capture it and the story would write itself. That has a lot of faith in knowing that this is the era that we're in right now. How'd you know it would work? It wasn't me. That was Triple H. That was his idea. He felt confident in doing it that way. I was not sure. I'm like, I don't know, man. Maybe there won't, is there even going to be enough people there? Turns out he was completely right. There was. And yeah, it's just a different way of telling the stories and he's got a different mentality than, you than Vince had.

And it's really interesting. And people really responded to it. And the same thing with Randy, the way I ended up ultimately turning on Randy was, it was on TV, but it was done differently. It wasn't, you know,

it was something that was released later as well. And you just kind of caught the tail end of it on TV, but then they did the security footage after. And yeah, it's just a way, just that he wants to tell stories differently. And he's willing to, you know, try stuff out and see what sticks.

And I think that makes the show way more interesting, you know. It doesn't mean it's always going to work. Like there might be sometimes it doesn't land. But we're trying different things and new things. And I think that's so important in wrestling. Like when it gets monotonous and repetitive, like it's just no matter how good the matches are and the promos are, if you feel like you've seen it before. And it's okay to have seen it before once.

Like if you see a rematch once or twice, great. But man, there were times over, like, I'd say in 2008, 2009, I was an avid fan. I would never miss any WWE shows, even when I was an independent wrestler traveling the world. But I started paying a lot less attention in 0809 because I felt like this is literally the same thing every single week. And there were times where, you know, even when I was here, like 2016, 2017, I felt like we just did this two weeks ago.

And now we're doing it again. And you know what I mean? And to me, when it gets like that, it's just not the way to we need to do things. I think we need different things, different things, new things. We need to try stuff. And it has to feel unpredictable and exciting, you know. Less is more. And we hear that so often in wrestling.

And I feel like that's what made your pile drivers so effective is we hadn't seen them in so long. Yeah. What did the approval process look like to bring the pile driver back? Well, the package pile driver was something I've asked many times before and there was always no, not right now, not today, doesn't work, can't do it. Until eventually it was, yeah, okay, let's do it. And then I didn't feel like hitting it on Randy was the best decision.

I thought a normal pall driver was enough for Randy because Randy is gigantic. And, you know, I didn't think I could, quite frankly, I didn't think I could get him up for the package ball driver because of the way his body needs to be. He's just too massive. But yeah. And then Cody, Cody at Saturday Night's main event was the right time to do it. It was cool. I waited a long time to get to do that in WWE. And the funny part is, you know, I knew Penta was coming.

and Penta was doing the package bottle driver. And I was like, he better not get to do it before me because I will lose my shit. But it all worked out. This episode is brought to you by Hymns. No man wants to lose his hair, but for men, it's actually very common. And now with Hymns, the solution is simple.

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I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claimant, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting a World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. I started collecting trading cards recently, and the inscriptions you had on these cards are they're special. Yeah. Let me read a few of these.

Maybe you can tell me the story behind them. I ate soup once. Oh, I did. I had more than once. but that is a true statement. So, you know, they make us sign these cards and there's a lot of them to sign. So sometimes we're sitting there for 20 minutes,

sign them all, signing them all. And I get bored very easily. And to me, an autograph is very boring. Like, it's just a scribble of somebody that looks kind of like his name, but not really. So I like to just give a little something more to make it more interesting. If it was up to me, I'd do it on all of them.

But I like, you can't do it on all of them. It takes too long. You can only do it on so much. No, they never tell me what to do. They just told me you can't do it on all of them. We'll be sitting here all day. But I can do as many as I want or as little as I want. I just, I do.

When I feel like it, I do it. There's so many more, like from that batch that people started finding, there's at least 10, 15 more that I still haven't, like people still haven't found, I think, because they haven't ended up online. So how money in total do you think you did? I'd probably sign like 40 or 50 of them, like weird stuff on them. The bloodline aren't really related. They're not. they're not. Not all of them.

Some of them are, but they're not. Some of them are just, like they were, our dads were tag team partners. Yeah, that doesn't mean you're related. Anyway,

you know? I like several Shakira songs. I do. Great artist. Which ones? Hips don't lies, classic. Underneath your clothes,

I believe is the name of it. It's very nice. What about whenever, wherever? Yeah, of course. I like, yeah,

I like a lot of them. Some of them I don't even know the names of them. She Wolf. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, that one's, that one rules. Which inscription are you hoping people will find soon? So there's one that I wrote that I don't think anybody has found yet.

It says, don't follow us at the airport. And that one's like, that's, that's, that one that people should take that to heart. That feels personal. Yeah, you know, we love our fans. We really do. And what I do now at airports is I gum and when they're all waiting for their autographs. I just go, I don't sign at the airport, but I'll gladly take a picture with you. And when I say that, 20 of them turn around and...

What? Yeah, so, because they're not there to be fans. Because they're going to sell it on eBay? Yeah, which I don't really have a problem with. But I just got to the airport. I'm either tired. I got, I go to go to work. So I, you know, and sometimes, man, like, when we get to an airport and it's five or six people, okay.

But nowadays, we get there, man. 40, 50 people. sometimes it feels like you're like you're like they get around you can't even you can't move it's like very it's overwhelming for me and I know like I've seen it done like to the girls and the girls some girls have told me like it gets almost scary and I know nobody that comes to the airport is setting out to do that they just want an autograph whether they're going to sell it or not whatever they're not trying to crowd somebody and make them feel like hey this is too much But when there's 40 of you, that's what happens.

So what I suggest is just don't come to the airport. They're like tracking your flights, aren't they? Yeah, there's some that are actually, so just recently, we landed from Newark Airport, from the charter that took us back home after the Europe shows. And there's like 11 or 12 of us. The flight was delayed. We landed late. 11 or 12 of us are trying to make our connection.

And we're all going to be really tight. So we're all running, all trying to, we get to right where we have to cross back into security to get to our flights. And all of us are like trying to make it within 15 minutes. And there's 10 people trying to get us to sign. And I had to say, now is not the time. Get away from us. We don't have time. We're all rushing for our flights.

And I think they got the message, thankfully. But there's just times too where we just can't do it. Or like they, some of them have started buying tickets to get across. security. So they meet us at our gate. Oh my gosh. And those guys to me are like rotten. Like if you do that, you're an asshole. And I told that to one of the guys that did it recently. As I was walking by him, he was at our gate and he's trying to get me a sign. I go, nope. He goes, well, stone cold doesn't have a problem signing. I told him, okay, good for you. And he's like trying to talk shit. Because he's at an airport. Yeah. So he can do it. He knows nothing's going to happen to him. He would never do that in the

street. You know what I mean? But like that just says a lot about the kind of people like, and like, I remember seeing a video of Ray being ambushed in between flights past security. He's trying to catch his flight. And I think he told them like, I don't have time to do this. And then they tried to like put it online and say like Ray was rude or whatever. Like this is just insane. Well, this is why you have autograph signs. Yeah. But again, like man. Like you can meet you guys at WWE. world or something like that. Or, you know, even outside of the shows, like when people come to the shows and they wait, you know, where we're parked sometimes, some guys will be happy to go talk to them and sign. And I try to do that.

And some of the guys don't. And that's fine. But yeah, the airport is literally just never the place. We never like it. I guarantee it. Some guys might not mind it. Other guys really don't like it. I, but I mean what I say when I go there, I'll happily take a picture with you.

But it says a lot when I say that. Five, six of them. maybe more, depending on how many are just, oh, and they turn around, like, okay. Well, I feel like you just made the value of that one trading card with that description on it. That's the most expensive card. There's another one that I, uh, because they'll, sometimes they'll come up with signature, like something I already signed and go, did you sign this? Is that yours? And I look at it and I go, I mean, most likely it is, but it's just a scribble.

It doesn't seem, it's not far fed. It's not far fed. Someone just recreated it. So I wrote on the card, I signed it, and I wrote, if you asked me if I signed this, I'll say no. I've been fascinated watching the tattoos on your arms grow since you debuted in WWA. Yeah. Because it was zero, right? And then, no, it was the one.

It was one on the shoulder. Yeah. Just one. Where's two? There was this one and the bull when I started. And now you have. And I had a K over here, me and my wife, a month after we met. We had a time.

That one's hit. We wouldn't know that one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then I got hurt in 2018. And I had like four or five months off. So I'm like, all right. I always wanted to get sleeves.

I never, I always waited to make sure I was going to make a living off wrestling before I got it. Because, you know, back in the day, it's not like now. You know, now you can have as much tattoos as you want to do anything in life, which is great. But back in the day, like, you can't have too many tattoos. It's going to hinder your work. So I didn't know, you know, until. I made sure that I knew I was going to be a wrestler for a living. I waited to get everything.

And then, yeah, I started getting this, the vulture on my arm in 2018 during the break and just grew from there. A lot of dinosaurs. Yeah, the dinosaurs came. There's a whole dinosaur arm? Yeah. So this arm is just all the animals. Yes.

Triceratops. This arm is just all animals that I really love. And before I decided I was going to be a wrestler, the only other interest I had was either being a zoologist or, uh, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, What's the word? Archaeologists? Yeah, like Jurassic Park. Like I saw him, like, yeah, digging up.

Like, I would, after seeing Jurassic Park, I'd go in that backyard and try to dig up dinosaur bones. And I just found a hole, so many cats buried in my backyard. So many. And I kept them. At first, did you think, ah, it's a dinosaur. I knew it was clearly a cat. I mean, many cats. So I had a whole, I had a collection.

They put them in the box. My mom was like, okay, fine. But yeah, so dinosaur fossils, I was, was a passion when I was a kid. And both dinosaurs in general, but the thing about it is we have a pretty good idea what they looked like. Well, you can't know for sure. And I feel like in the last decade or so.

They've changed. Exactly. So we know what their fossils. Yeah. We know what their fossils look like. So I went with that. And there's people that are like, you know they weren't real. Yeah.

What? Okay. Where the bones come from? What's the one on your hand mean? Your knuckles? This one? All right. The knuckles are my grandfather's initials.

This is Melvinstein, which is my dad's father. and Pierre Benoit, which is my mom's father, they both passed away. Before I made it to WWE, but they were both huge fans of mine. They supported me so much. They loved, like Melvin would take me to WWE shows when I was a kid.

And Pierre, you know, he'd watch all my matches at home. And when they'd passed on the Indies, I would have white wrist tape and I'd write their initials on my wrist tape. But then when I got to WWI, I decided I'm probably not going to wear white wrist tape, so I won't be able to put their initials. So I went and got them tattooed on my wrist tape. knuckles because I just kind of need them with me all the time. This one is for my parents.

So my mom loves skulls for some reason. She loves skulls. And my dad loves hockey and golf. So I always had this idea of doing like, you know, the pirate logo where it's like the skull with the swords. But I did a hockey stick and a golf club for my dad and a skull for my mom. And then this one was my son actually drew this one. What? Yeah. That's a great stegosaurus. Yeah, and he drew it in like two minutes. Like, my wife was getting a tattoo, and I was just sitting there, and then the tattoo artist became available.

She's like, if you have something you want to do quick, I can. So I texted my son, hey, drop this stagosaurus real quick. And like two minutes later, he sent me that. Wow. And then she drew it. My kid's name is my wife's name. Yeah. Well, as we wrap this up, since you're wearing a Guns and Roses T-shirt, what's your favorite G&R song?

man that's a really tough question November rain probably makes me feel like I'll listen to that one probably more than any others but I you ask me for a favorite it's terrible I can't pick depends on the day both my kids were born to Guns and Roses song my son was born to patience and my daughter was born to sweet child of mine

and then I used better as an entrance theme on the Indies which I really like It's very hard to pick, man. And I would say every time I go see them live, I probably have a new favorite song when I walk out of that concert just because of what it made me feel in the time, you know?

But yeah, I love Guns and Roses. Well, thank you for making this happen. Congratulations on everything in your career. 25 years. Yeah, I know. It's wild. Man. I will wrap this up with a question. I ask everybody at the end.

Gratitude's such a huge part of my life. And I wake up every day, say out loud, every three things I'm grateful for because it kind of sets the tone to focus on the things you have. rather than what you don't have, and I do it before I go to bed. What are three things in your life you're grateful for?

Well, obviously my family, my parents, my wife, my kids, which, you know, there's really no purpose without them. My friends, I have a lot of very good friends that are really, like just all, like friends, a lot of them, too, that I have done this whole journey with a lot of them, you know? and to have been by their side and have had them by my side for so long and going through all these trials

and tribulations with them and seeing where we are now, it's a pretty great feeling. It's very special. And finally, I'm just really thankful for the... I'm thankful that I've been at the right place at the right time a lot in my career,

which has led to me getting to experience some really incredible things, like the match with Steve, or, you know, winning certain championships and this and that. I'm not, like, I, humility is a very important quality for me. I know I'm good at what I do, but I'm not arrogant enough to think that all those opportunities happen because I'm so good. They happen because chance a lot of it, and I was lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time, and I'm very grateful for that. Thank you so much. There we go.

Big thank you to Kevin Owens for this, wishing him a speedy recovery from his next surgery. That segment on Smackdown was heart wrenching. I was there in Chicago for it. Maybe you spotted me sitting behind the announce table. Got a lot of messages from you guys about that. So thank you for that. And now we can play this game.

We can speculate who will be Randy Orton's opponent for WrestleMania. We'll, of course, chat more about that on tomorrow's episode. on Ask CVV. But it just, man, that sucks for Kevin Owens. That was one of the matches I was looking forward to the most. K.O. versus R.K.O., going to be so good. And look, I feel like Kevin Owens made it pretty clear here, but it bears repeating. Don't follow them at the airport.

And I do feel that that card that he was talking about, the don't follow us at the airport an inscription is going to be his most valuable signed card ever, especially after this story here. Hope you love this conversation as much as I did. Snap a screenshot and tag us online. He's at Fight Owen's Fight on X. I'm at Chris Van Vleet and Paulo Cuelo said it best. What a great quote here. When we strive to become better than we are, everything around us becomes better too. be great. Be grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got AskCVV number 78 tomorrow. If you have a question, leave a comment on Spotify. Send it in on social media using that hashtag AskCVV or shoot me an email. CVV at Chris Vanfleet.com. We will see you tomorrow. We'll wrap up the week on Friday with AskCV. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do.

With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here.

The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.