Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Kurt Angle on his retirement match, Jason Jordan storyline, plans for WM20 match vs Bret Hart, John Cena

Episode Date: January 9, 2020

Kurt Angle sits down with Chris Van Vliet for an epic interview in Pittsburgh, PA. Kurt talks about his original retirement match versus John Cena, the match he had with Baron Corbin, the plans to wrestle Bret Hart at WrestleMania 20, the storyline with his “son” Jason Jordan, his battle with addiction, leaving WWE and signing with TNA, his infamous milk truck moment, his current job with WWE and he tells a crazy story about Vince wanting to "beat his ass". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the Chris Van Vlead Show. Chris Van Bleed Show. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Vleet! Episode number one of 2020. Happy to you, my friends. Welcome to another episode of the Chris Van Vleet Show. And if this is your first time listening to an episode, thank you so much.

Thank you for listening. Thank you for finding us. If you're regular, you know what? An even bigger thank you to you. I can't wait to dive into 2020 with you and what a way to do it. This is one of my favorite interviews that I've ever done in my entire career as a broadcaster. I've been a fan of Kurt Engel since his debut in WWF. In fact, I told Kurt this story right before we did the interview that I waited for him outside

in the dead of a Canadian winter in February of 2001. I waited in this line for six hours for an autograph signing with Christian Tristratus and him. I was 16 years old. And he's like, oh, yeah, I remember that autograph signing. It was really cold that day. I'm like, yeah, Kurt, I was standing outside. That was actually the XFL kickoff party. Yeah, 2001.

It was the XFL kickoff. And I guess that was the year the XFL kicked off 2001. It was also the year the XFL ended 2001. What a great chat, though. We dug into so many different topics here. I dug in deep on some of them. And for someone like Kurt Engel that I have an immense amount of respect for, I was just so incredibly grateful for his time here.

I'm also so grateful for the kind words for the reviews you've been leaving on Apple Podcasts. The show now has 590 reviews, which is crazy because it started in June. So please keep these coming. The specific goal for the year, because as you know, vague goals get vague results. specific goals, get specific results. So the specific goal is a thousand reviews, and I know we can do this. So please keep them coming. And if you listen on Stitcher or Google or Spotify or somewhere else, I thank you.

You're awesome. I super appreciate you. There's just no reviews on there. I can't read them. So listen wherever you're listening. You're awesome. But this review is from Billy Gunney is number one is the username. And it's true.

I mean, he's the one Billy Gunn. Remember that gimmick? I love that gimmick. The CVV show equals fantastic. Chris, you have the world's greatest wrestling podcast. Seriously, you are the Haas and Benjamin of wrestling podcasts. Your past experience and communication always shines through in every single interview that you do. Keep up the good work and continue to leapfrog stun gun your way through 2020.

Well, Billy Gun is number one. That's exactly what I'm going to do in 2020. Thank you for the review. Please keep them coming. Also, if you're listening right now, take a screenshot. Tag me, tag Kurt Angle, just let us know that you're listening on Instagram or Twitter. And I'm so glad that this interview actually happened because it almost didn't happen. Kurt told me he had exactly one hour to do this interview and we could do it in Pittsburgh on a weekday at 1 p.m.

So I left my house to drive to Pittsburgh, a drive that should take like four and a half hours. It ended up taking five hours and 56 minutes. So I left my house at 7 a.m. thinking, I'll have plenty of time. I'll get to this hotel. Yes, I booked a hotel just for just to do this interview. So I booked the hotel, used it for an hour. I'm sure there's lots of other people that book hotel rooms at this particular hotel and use it for other things for their hour. But I booked this hotel figured, I'd get there with plenty of time, set up and everything. I got to the hotel with four minutes to spare. Four minutes. I literally ran down the hall, set everything up in the room. And just as I was

finishing, Kurt was walking in. So it worked out amazingly. And I think an easy case can be made that Kurt Engle is one of, if not the best technical wrestlers to ever lace him up. I know that, you know that. And guess what? Kurt Engel knows that too. He talks about that and he talks about how unfortunately some of his best matches were probably not seen by a lot of fans because they happened during his time in Impact Wrestling. We also talk about his drug addiction that led him to leave WWE, sign with Impact Wrestling, and also how drugs caused him to say some pretty awful things to Vince McMahon. Things so bad that Vince wanted to fight him.

It's a crazy story. Kurt also talks about how he was this close to signing with UFC, and Dana White had a deal on the table for him. He almost did it. So I can't tell you how much I love this chat with Kurt Angle. I know you're going to love it too. Ladies and gentlemen, he's your Olympic hero. It's true.

It's damn true. It's Kurt Engel. Wishing you a happy belated birthday. Thank you. Yeah, it was just two days ago. Oh, you got to hold the mic up here. Yeah, there we go. 51, right?

Yeah, I'm 51. Yeah, you're looking good. You feeling good? I'm okay. Yeah. Could be better. Could be worse. Well, I mean, what could possibly be worse?

You look awesome. Everything. I was just showing you a photo off camera that the first time I ever met you was 2008. You came to the TV station I was working out in Toronto. You put me in the ankle lock, so thank you for that. It was a great honor. I'll never forget, though. I laid down to do it, and I lifted my leg up, and you're like, wrong leg, idiot.

I don't remember, but I would say that. But there's a right way to do this, and there's a wrong way to do this. Well, it's always left. Right. Left side, left hand, left leg, yeah. And I just lifted up my right leg like complete idiot. So I don't think people realize this, but, you know, because they don't see you on camera with WWE, you are still working for WWA.

Yeah, I've been doing it since WrestleMania. I'm a part-time producer, and, you know, I help the rest of structure their matches. So when you say part-time, you mean just one of the shows a week? Well, yeah, we're all full-time, but I, you know, I do rock every week. There are some producers that do both, Raw and Smackdown, but I'm focused mainly on Raw. So, you know, obviously with the experience that you had, you know, with all the years you spent in the ring, what are the things that you need to do to be a great producer and the job that you're in now? For one, pay attention to the show, see where the storylines are headed,

watch the athletes, the superstars wrestle, and see where they need improvement and, you know, tell them what their strengths and weaknesses are. So there's a lot that goes into it. It's just, it's from every aspect, though. It's not just the wrestling part. It's the storyline part. It's the structure of the show. And there's a lot of work.

Do you remember a specific producer in your time in WWE that really helped you craft a storyline, craft a match? There were three that really, really helped me quite a bit. One was John Laurinitis. The other one was Pat Patterson. Pat was extremely highly educated on structuring matches, coming out with great finishes, things you never saw before.

Pat Patterson is the guy that invented the Royal Rumble. He came out with a lot of concepts that WWE uses today. So he was my favorite, him and John, Lauren Ayas. When you returned to WWE after 11 years in TNA, Was it the plan that you were going to wrestle a little bit, have the on-screen role as the GM and then go into this backstage role? The plan for me was to wrestle first, do the GM second and Hall of Fame 3rd. Okay.

For me, they went the opposite. They did the Hall of Fame first, GM second, wrestle third. That was, for me, it was a lot harder. I think a lot of people, you know, see a wrestling, quote-unquote, retirement on TV or on a paper view like yours with WrestleMania and they go, yeah, well, that's just a wrestling retirement. Right.

You know, we know how those all work. Is this it for you? Or do you have another match in you? No, I'm done. I knew I was done when I went to Vince and told him I wanted to retire and just had my last match at this past WrestleMania. I believe he wanted me to go another year, but I just didn't want to do it anymore. where I know what I'm capable of now,

and it's not enough for me to be comfortable going out there and performing. If I can't do it like the old Kurt Angle, I don't want to do it anymore. So the plan to go another year and then maybe this WrestleMania, WrestleMania 37, you would have your final match? Yeah, most likely with John Cena. But I chose not to because I wanted John Last Mania, but we already had a storyline going on with Baron Corbyn and myself. and Vince said, if you're going to retire, you're going to finish with Baron Corbyn, you know, if you don't mind, because you guys have a great storyline and we're not going to just stop.

And Vince was right. So I said, okay, I'll wrestle Baron and, you know, that's, it'll be my last match and that's it. You know, there wasn't any way to work this in to have that match with John Cena. It would have been, you know, so poetic to do that. I think it was thought of. I think it was thought of for the following year. But, you know, because I wanted to retire early and, you know, Vince McMahon wanted me to continue the storyline with Barron,

there was no possible way. What was ironic is when I got the WrestleMania, I did my throwback to my team angle when I wore the hoodie. And Cina did his throwback. We never talked to each other. We just walked up to each other. We just walked up to each other. And so that was way back from 2003.

it had been kind of cool to bring that back in Russell John. Well, I think when Sena's music hit there at WrestleMania, I mean, I was there. I think that people were expecting it to be some sort of a figure out some sort of a match between you guys. Well, I knew that John didn't have anything planned or at least nothing long term. So I already knew I was wrestling with Barron. So I figured John was going to do something quick like he did. Yeah. Have you looked back at that match with Barron?

Are you happy with the way that it went? Yeah, no. Barron's a great wrestler. He's a great talent. You know, a lot of people don't like him, but he's really good at his job. He's a great. He's the top heel on the business right now. Now, I know that people might naturally hate him, but that's a good thing.

Like, everybody thinks, well, he has real heat, not WWE or wrestling heat. It's like, well, that's the point. He wants to have real heat. So, you know, I got the rest of the top heel in the business. That's the way I look at it. And that's kind of the thing is. you know, the plan is that you want to go out putting someone else over, and you certainly put there and over.

I didn't expect to win, not against anybody. So I figured I would lose my last match, just like everybody else. With the amount of time that you spent in TNA, did you ever think that you'd be retiring in WWA? Yeah, I knew I would go back. I just didn't know when. You know, I probably waited a couple years too long. I did stay in great shape when I got back to WWI.

2016. Yeah. And I was ready to wrestle. I was wrestling matches that year. I took a year off and I just focused on wrestling. I wrestled Ray Mysterio. I wrestled Del Rio, Cody Rhodes a couple times. Three times, actually.

So I was just trying to keep my body fresh and also get enough activity to keep me in enough shape to, if I did come back to WB, I'd be ready. And when I did, you know, Vince would. man and Triple H, you know, pulled me aside and said, we're going to induct you the Hall of Fame first. Is that okay? And I said, yeah, but I'd rather wrestle first, you know, but I didn't have any options. And I think I understand why.

I don't think it was to criticize me or, because I did leave the WB high and dry in 06. It was my choice to leave, and I know Vince and I didn't part on good terms. and I went straight to the other company. But I, you know, coming back, Vince never forgot. I had a painkiller problem and I had a severe neck problem. And I think when Vince brought me back, he looked at me as a liability. And I think that's why he had me do the shorter matches. He had me help put talent over.

He never really ran with me with a title run or anything like that. So I was expecting that because, you know, Goldberg came back, had that. I think even Sting had at least a title match, but it wasn't in the plan. So I don't blame Vince for that. I think that me being a liability with my five broken necks and my campaign killer problem from a long time ago, I don't think he wanted to see me fall back into that. Sure. When you originally did leave WWA 2006, when you went into TNA, did they allow you to do

things that maybe you weren't able to do in your first time with WWE? You mean like from a creative standpoint? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we know, we came up with a lot of our own stuff, but we had a good writer. A lot of people want to pick on Vince Rousseau. I love them. I thought he was really good at his writing. I think the problem was, you know, there were a lot of talent that weren't willing to do what he wrote. So when it came down to TV time, nothing really meshed together

because you have talent saying, I'm not doing that, I'm going to do this. And all of a sudden the story turns into something different or phases out. It doesn't really work. So Vince was always, Vince Russo was always on top of stuff. He was writing. I did everything he told me to do.

I trusted them that much. So unfortunately, I didn't get to work with him in WWE. just left right before I went on, before I debuted. But Vince was a great writer. I had a great writer in W.O.B. with Brian Goertz. And I was very blessed to have those guys. When you first left WWE, was there a, let me just straighten this out of Sarah. Was there a plan for you?

Did you know you were going to go to TNA? Or you were just like, I'm not going to be here. And I'm going to figure the rest out. When it went public that I was really, I got a phone call from Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett. And they asked if they could fly up the meet with me. So they did. So this was probably a week after I got released.

Okay. And we worked out a deal and got it done like that day. It was really quick. I'd say it took us 15 minutes. But, you know, I felt badly too because I told Vince McMahon the week prior that I'd be back six months. So, you know, I, I went after it because it was a reduced schedule. The money was from a guarantee standpoint just as good. Yeah. So I knew I was guaranteed that money and I knew I would wrestle a lot less. Yeah. And it just was more appetizing to me at that point. But this was

around the same time when UFC was reaching out to you, right? So it's like, had things happened in a reverse order, maybe you would have been an octagon. Yeah. Yeah. You know, No, but I also knew in the back of my mind, once I broke my neck the second time, the first was in the Olympics in 96, or before the Olympics in 96. Yeah. The second one was in 2003, and when that occurred, I lost a lot of strength of my upper body. I was having, I guess, circulation problems from my neck going down my arms, couldn't feel my hands. I lost a lot of strength in my arms. I could only bench at the time, 135 pounds.

Wow. So for me to go into Octagon, after all that trauma, it wasn't, I don't think I could have done it. Unfortunately, before it had a broken neck, I would have said, hell yeah, it'd have been great. I'd had a great run. I probably would have won the world title. You never know. You never know. But it was more appetizing to me than pro wrestling.

Of course you would have won the title. There's nothing you, anything you set your mind on, you accomplish. I appreciate that, but it's not an easy sport, and there's some badasses out there. But, you know, whether I did or not, I knew in the back of my mind I couldn't do it. And Dana White gave me a great offer. Thank you, Dana. He's been really good to me. I've reached out to him a couple of different times, and he was willing to talk to me and, you know, give me two separate deals, two separate times.

Wow. I backed out. And it was, you know, I just knew I couldn't do it. And I knew if I did it, I'd probably embarrass myself. And I didn't want to get to that point in my career. So I decided just to wrestle. Because Dana wanted me to quit pro wrestling. I said, I just signed with TNA.

He said, well, you have to quit that too. And I was like, can't quit. I just sign with him. So it didn't work out. Would you think you would have fought as light heavyweight, 205? Yeah, I would have been a light heavyweight. I would have fought in a heavyweight division, too. You know, I always paired well against bigger guys.

I don't know if you remember when Randy Couture beat the one guy, he's seven foot tall. Yeah, yeah. He can't remember his name, but Randy also is really good at that. He always worked with guys bigger, heavy weights. And me too, so I wouldn't have mind to going in there with anybody. it was 280. It's fine.

Maybe if UFC was, you know, as popular as it is now, when you came off the Olympics, you probably wouldn't have had a WWE run at all. That's what I tell people. I, you know, I got offered in 96, UFC offered me, but they offered me a 10-fight deal for 150 grand. That's 15 grand a fight. Right. That's not worth it.

Especially when you're a name. Yeah, yeah. So I had to pass on it. And I'd say about six, seven years later, it just exploded. And because of Dana White, he did a tremendous thing by reigniting the company. But, yeah, I knew if I would have done it right at the Olympics, you know, I probably wouldn't be in pro wrestling. I mean, I was an amateur wrestler in high school and into college as well. And I know that you weren't supposed to watch pro wrestling because that was the quote-unquote fake stuff.

What was your first introduction to pro wrestling? Well, I started watching it before I, WW contacted me in 96. I turned down that offer. In 1998, late in the year, I just started watching it. I turned it on every week and watching the Rock and Stone Cold and Triple H Undertaker, those guys. But my biggest inspiration was Austin.

I really enjoyed watching him perform. These guys were really good athletes. I never watched it before, so I'm watching them perform these stunts and go, wow, man, these guys are serious, you know, world-class athletes. So I called WB and said, can I get that contract still?

And they said, no, but you can try out. So that was like a guaranteed contract. They originally offered you. Yeah, it was a 10-year deal, yeah. So I turned it down and they didn't offer me it again. I had to work for it. Right. So you had to go in and basically start from the bottom,

but it was so impressive seeing you in there because you took to it so quickly. How many parallels were there between the Olympic style and WWA? None. I had to forget everything I learned. Well, I know wrestlers don't like to be on their back. Yeah, well, it's, you know, the back and everything else, the stunts. Even showing the emotions and just stuff that you don't normally, you know, do in amateur wrestling.

You focus on your opponent. The job is to take them down and pin them, and there is no storytelling. You know, you have to show emotion. You have to show you're afraid or you're angry or you're upset or excited. and you have to be able to talk on this right here. There were a lot of facets to it. The only thing that I got out of amateur wrestling that I was able to bring into sports entertainment

was my C-plexes. Other than that, everything was completely different. Yeah. When someone refers to you or Brett Hart as the best to ever do it, how does it make you feel? Great. You know, I know how good I was. especially in 2003 to 2006, barring no injuries because I broke my neck, geez, three times.

Did you break it in a WWE ring? Yes, yes. Let me see. I got hit over to head by Brock once, broke my neck with a chair. And Brock also ran across the ring. I was on his back, and he kind of turned sideways, and my neck went less, and my two vertebrae broke there. So two with Brock One with Eddie Guerrero

at WrestleMania I did an angle slam off the top rope and landed on the back of my head and my neck broke and then in 2006 in January I broke it right before I wrestled Undertaker at no way out so that was four times

outside those injuries there was nobody better that period of time nobody but unfortunately I kept going down with neck injuries It just wasn't working out. Yeah, that match you had with Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania, where he goes for the Shooting Star Press,

and he almost broke his neck. Was that supposed to be the finish of the match? Yeah, yeah, that was my idea. And Brock was doing it in OVW years prior. And I just wanted him to have a WrestleMania moment. I didn't know so. So he did miss, but the cool thing about it is that's what people remember most about WrestleMania 19

is Brock missing the moonsaw. So it was a great moment for him. And we, I love wrestling, Brock. He was so physical, just like me. And we would trade back and forth. And I enjoyed wrestling probably more than anybody. So that was going to be the finish, though, the shooting star? Yeah, that was the finish.

And unfortunately, he missed. And I was trying to, you know, he was knocked out for a little bit. He was on Loopy Street. And finally, he was able to get me up for another F5, and he delivered it and won the match. And there were rumors that the next year it was going to be the dream match of all dream matches. You and Brett Hart. I don't know if you've ever addressed this.

Was that actually the plan for Russellmania 20? Well, I was trying to get that done. And I understood why Brett didn't want to do it. Me being at 51 now and looking back, and if a young Brett Hart came to me right now and said, hey, let's do our dream match. I'd be like, it's not going to be the little dream match that I'd like it to be. I probably don't want to get in that ring. So I understood why Brett didn't want to do it

because he had the stroke and he had a lot of bad luck, you know, some things that were, you know, medically, you know, difficult for him to be able to come back and be at his very best. So I understand why. And he wanted to be the Brett Hart that everybody adored, you know. And so did I.

I was, you know, I even told him, listen, you don't have to buy it. at all. I'll do all the bumping. And he was like, nah, it won't be the Brett Hart match. I was, that I wanted to be. I can't do that. And I completely understood. There was also another rumor that you were originally in talks to be the first ever

universal champion, champion, you know, and then it ended up being Jericho in the unified champion. Do you know what ended up happening there? Yeah. Vince McMahon came to me two weeks prior to the tournament and said, we're going to, we're going to give you the strap again and you're going to be the undisputed chairman. Undisputed chairman. I'm sorry. And, you know, I thought that was pretty cool

considering it was, the pull was Chris Jericho, Rock, and Austin, which is, you know, those three are among the very best of all time. So I knew going into it that I was going to win and then about five days before it, Vince gave me a call and said, hey, I really want to get Jericho. the title. I think that he would benefit from this. And I agreed. I was like Vince, if anybody needs it and would run with it, it would be Chris Jericho. So I'm cool with that.

I was really very honored that Vince had enough respect for me to tell me, listen, but we're going to switch it. Instead, just doing it not tell me. He wanted to get my feelings on it. And I agree with him. Chris Jericho, it benefited him, put him right in that title, you know, picture and main event. And Chris was always up in there. He's always up in the main event. But, you know, he'd come down to make Cardin and back up the main event. And he was such an important factor of the company because he did, he can make anybody look good. So, you know, we used him wherever we needed him.

He was like one of our most important assets. So him getting undisputed title really took his career to another level. Well, I feel like if you wanted, if he wanted if Austin or Rock won it, I mean, everybody wins in that situation. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think so too. I think that, but, you know, at the time, Chris needed it the most. Austin Rock definitely didn't need it. Yeah.

I could have used it, but I didn't need it. So I think they made the right choice in Chris Jericho. I have more respect for him today than I ever did. I can't believe the things he can do now. Yeah, it sounds like through what you're talking about with your story with Vince, that you had a pretty great relationship with Vince throughout your run in WWF slash WWA. Yeah. It was, is that something that continued on afterwards, or when you left in 06, did, you know, did that kind of burn a bridge for a little while?

Oh, it definitely burned a bridge. Vince and I were really close. It was the last year and a half. I got out of control. You know, I was doing a lot of painkillers, and I was getting injured quite a bit, and I was wrestling full time, and it was really getting to me. I mean, I was tearing my hamstring, then my groin, then my abdominal muscle. and it's just my knee, then my shoulder, my back, my neck, and it just got to be too much.

And the painkillers, you know, I was taking up the 65 extra strength like it in a day. I've heard that story and that's just crazy. 18 at a time and chewing them in my mouth and swan them. So I was a wreck. Vince didn't know this. And back then, they didn't have that drug policy. So they, you know, up until 05, six, they didn't, they start drug testing, but before that, you know, you could do whatever you

wanted. So, um, although I, you know, I was really, I was really screwed up physically, mentally, psychologically, um, and I, I had to leave. And when I, when I did, Vince and I never spoke again until I came back in, uh, two years ago. That moment that's captured on camera? Yeah. Wow. I talked to Hunter, Triple H for a couple of months. months, but never Vince. And the first time we saw each other, and we hugged each other. And, you know, I apologize to him for the things I did and said. And, you know, he said, don't worry about it.

We're back, you know, we're back to normal. And so, you know, Vince has always been a father figure to me. I never wanted to intentionally hurt him. Yeah. But, you know, I remember, you know, I'll give you a quick story. Yes, please. I decide I wanted to quit. And my manager and I, we went to the headquarters.

This is an 06? Yeah, yeah. What happened was I injured myself real badly, my hamstring groin. There was blood all over, across my genitals, my hamstring, both legs, running down both legs, on the inside, like bruising. Wow. It was really bad. Yeah. And I showed at the Vince when we had a meeting, and I said, we need to talk, Vince, because I'm not doing really well.

And so he pulls out about five tight pages of text messages and phone call messages. I left them. And I'm reading. I'm like, it says, Vince, I'm going to beat the shit out of you when I see you. Vince, you know, better answer him at the call. I'm going to kick your ass and really, really crazy stuff. Wow. And you don't remember sending it?

No, I was at the point at the time, unfortunately. I was taking Pankos, I was taking somas, and, you know, every once in a while I would black out, and here I am, Texan Vince. And so he showed me all these. I'm like, oh, my God, I actually said this stuff. And he stood up, and he took his jacket off. He says, you want to kick my ass? Let's go right now.

Wow. And I looked at him, I'm like, oh, my God, I can't believe Vince McMahon wants to beat my ass. You know, this guy's been my father figure for seven years. and I have too much respect for him to stand up. But he wanted to go. Wow. And I left the room and I came back and I just broke down. And I said, Vince, I can't do this anymore.

I need you to release me. And he did. He did. And, you know, sometimes I look back and I wish he didn't. But, you know, it had to be done for me to save my life. And I know I wasn't. I wasn't represented WV the way Vince needed me to.

In other words, he's a publicly traded company. Sure. You know, he has a liability on his hands with the broken neck, the painkillers, and whatever else.

So it was time for me to leave, at least for momentarily. But he wanted to release you and then have you going to rehab, right? Yeah, year prior, he wanted me to go to rehab. And no, no, no, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Yeah, in 2006, You're right. When I quit or when I asked for a release, Vince wanted me to go to rehab. You're exactly right. And he said, I want you to go for a couple months and come back in six months and we'll start your contract back up.

Yeah. And so I said no. And I didn't want to do that. And so I decided I'm going to leave and I'm going to go to TNA. So I had the option. Go to WB, stay in WBOVE and go to rehab or leave. you got a TNA.

And I don't regret it. I loved my career in TNA. I loved Dixie Carter. She was incredibly good to me. But, you know, what sucks is my best phase of my career was in TNA. As good as I was in WWE, I was the best there. I got better in TNA. And unfortunately, the WW.

Universe will never see those matches. Well, there's probably a lot of people watching this that have only watched your matches in WWE. So if someone's watching this, they want to see one of your best TNA matches. What should they watch? Anything with AJ Stiles, Samoa Joe, Bobby Rude, Desmond Wolfe, Ken Anderson, the Sting, Stinger. But there are a lot of great people.

Your matches with AJ were all incredible. We had a great chemistry. Everybody has great chemistry with AJ. Everybody has great chemistry with you. You too. Thanks. I can't even think of a bad cred angle match. Hopefully I didn't have one.

I don't know. I wouldn't remember. So in TNA, when did you realize, oh, my God, maybe I do have a problem. Maybe Vince was right. I do need to go to rehab. I didn't see it. I didn't. I knew deep down I had a problem, but I was in denial for so many years.

I mean, I didn't consider rehab until I got hit with a DUI. And it was my fourth one. Okay. And the reason why I never quit, never went to rehab, never, you know, stopped doing it is when I got the DUIs, I would go to court and they would be either thrown out or be a lesser offense. And to me, it was like, well, I don't have a problem. I mean, obviously I blew right on the level of 0.08 or 0.078. and I wasn't really drunk and I wasn't really high. And I was able to make myself believe that I wasn't, there's nothing wrong.

So four DUIs in five years. And the last one, I was in jail and I called my wife and she said, I can't do this anymore. I'm going to leave you. And she said, if you got to rehab, I'll consider staying. But I can't do this anymore. So I went because of my wife and my kids. It was the best move I ever made. The story you're telling here sounds kind of similar to what Jeff Hardy is going through right now.

And you know, you worked with him for many years in TNA. You know, what kind of advice do you have for someone like him? It's not. It's not easy. I mean, going through these problems, especially with alcohol and drugs, you know, I don't know what the issue is with Jeff. I don't know if it's, you know, it could be he's in so much pain. from his body, which I completely agree.

I think that Jeff, out of anybody, his daredevil stunt work that he does, night in, night out, he has, his body has to be shot. And, you know, there's a way to coat with pain, but, you know, drugs and alcohol is not the way, although it helps temporarily. It's not the way to cope with pain. So, you know, I'm always praying for Jeff. I love the kid.

I know he can pull through this. So since, you know, after you went to rehab, obviously things worked out with your wife. I know you're very focused on being a father now. How much did that change your life? Oh, it changed everything. I never spent any time with my kids. I, you know, I would get home after touring and I would drink a 12 pack of beer and take a couple of soma or Xanax and pass out and wake up the next day. and never even talked to my kids.

My wife pointed that out to me, and I was like, oh my God, you're right. I'm just coming home, passing out every day and not really spending any time with any of you. So that's what changed my life. When I came home from rehab, I started getting a relationship with my children and my wife, and it was so much better and so much,

it was so much better than being high. trying to isolate myself. It was better to have the love of my kids and my wife. And I don't, I don't ever want to lose that. I know if I go back to it, I will lose it. Yeah, yeah.

And was it, was there, you know, was it hard to build that back up with them? No, no, they were actually very open and forgiving. And, you know,

my, especially my wife. But she, she's the reason I did it. You know, people say, you know, you know,

it's because you're strong internally and you, You know, you deserve the credit. No, my wife, my wife got me to believe in what was important. And I never, I didn't grow up, I guess. My dad was very, very hard worker, but he wasn't affectionate. We didn't hug or anything. We shook hands like men, and I was very distant from my father,

and I started feeling that with my kids, with my isolation, drinking and stuff. And my dad drank every night. He would drink until he passed out. And I was turning into my dad and like, oh God, I need to stop this, you know. And when I did, I realized,

you know, I get these, I have kids that love me and, you know, they want to be with me. I never thought about that. My kids want to spend time with me? Why? I'm boring. You know, all I do is travel and come home and pay the bills. I'm not a, exciting person.

But they wanted to spend time with me, which is really cool. So that's more important to me than anything. It's great how open you're being about this. And I love that you've been able to reconnect with your family. And I think I speak on a lot of fans' behalf when I say that it's great to see, you know, how good things are for you right now. Thank you. I feel really good right now.

And I like what I'm doing. I like where my life is headed. And the hardest part about now is letting the, guys step in and take the place that I had. And when you're older, until you get older, you don't really understand. Yeah, yeah. You want to be those guys still, but you can't. It's like anything, pro football, you know.

Dionne Sanders, you don't think he's thinking about in the booth where he's commenting. You don't think he doesn't think about getting back out there? Now, Dion might be able to do it still because he's a great shape. Yeah. He probably could still run a 4-1. but for the most part, you know, when you get older, you lose that, you know, ability to have, you know, world-class athleticism and be able to display it the way you want to.

So if you can't do it the way you want to, then you don't want to do it. But it must be so hard for someone like you who did it at the very best of the best, at that top level. What was the moment where you're like, I think I might have lost a half a step? I would say that was when I was, um, when I went to rehab. 2013. When I got out of rehab,

no more painkillers, no more Xanax, no more alcohol, no more somas. I had to just, you know, go on trying to maintain my body, stretching yoga,

you know, working out. And it was, my body just started to age, very quickly. I don't know if it was the painkillers that were enabling me to continue on and feel young, which they probably did. But, yeah, now I had to be smart because now I'm feeling every bit of pain I have in my neck, my back, my knees.

And I'd say that's when I started losing a step. And that had to be 2013, 14, yeah. And you've been clean and sober for how long now? Since then. August, second in 2013, so almost six years. Congratulations. Five years. Thank you. That's great. We recently had Ken Shamrock on the show.

He's great. I love him. And he said that the one match that he wished he would have. Me too. Was you. Yeah. Kenny, when I started in WWE, I just started so I was just training, but I would watch Ken's matches every week. He was the guy that I tried to portray, and I actually did. his ankle lock.

He was the first one he's the ankle lock. But I always picture myself wrestling him. Maine of Vandings in some pay-per-view and unfortunately he left and started

fighting again and we were never able to make it happen. I know that sometimes storylines in WWE end differently than what the original plan was. Was Jason Jordan

the original end of that storyline? Yes, Jason unfortunately got injured. That would have been my match at mania, this past mania, Jason. So, you know, that would have been, I guess, potentially a retirement match.

Yeah, yeah. And not that Vince wanted it to be. Yeah. You know, he wanted me to go another year. But yeah, initially, I mean, for the most part, yes. Jason would have been my last match, and it would have made sense. I adore that kid. He's so talented.

And, you know, he got a lot of heat. for being my son. Yeah. And he played the part great. That's why people hated him. He was being a spoiled brat about everything. And, you know, he was using me to get what he wanted. So it was a great.

Vince was great with that. A lot of fans really did hate him, just like Baron Corbyn. And I think that's good. Some people think it's bad, but I think it's good. And he was really good in the ring, really good. Were you surprised by the backlash in general? because it wasn't just on Jason, it was also on you for being part of that storyline.

Yeah, I didn't mind it at all. For the little fan base that enjoyed it, I thought it was a great way to bring Jason in. I thought it was a great way to, you know, you're going to make this kid son of Kurt Angle, a WB Hall of Famer, he's going to go straight to the main event right away. Now you have another main eventer.

So it was a great way to bring Jason in. Jason has a great look. His communication skills got better, and he was ready to go. How's he doing now? He's good. You know, I do expect him to come back. He's still waiting. He has some problems with his circulation and using his left hand.

So he's going to have to wait a little bit longer. But, you know, he might need another surgery. That might be the reason why he's still not able to function. properly but he's he's a lot better than he was and he got his strength and his size back up and he looks just like he did before because i think there was some concern that maybe he wouldn't you know ever wrestle again yeah well you know i think that was i think that was the initial you know diagnosis as you know uh but uh the surgery went well and jason's been improving slowly i mean heck it's been what a year and a half so yeah i don't know how much longer he can wait um he might

need to see another doctor and look for another surgery. So how many days a week is the current WWE job for you? Well, including travel two to three days a week. Great. So what do you do with the other, you know, four to five? I do appearances and... Yeah, actually, I saw you recently in New York. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. And I also, when I'm home, I'm taking these kids to everything from karate, the gymnastics, to swimming, to dance, to... I've got so much stuff here. I literally don't have time to have a career. Being a dad is the busiest thing I've ever done. I mean, I have kids with speech delay so that we got to get them to therapy. And, I mean, we were running around from the, when we get up until we go to sleep.

My wife and I, we're actually getting a date night tomorrow night just so we can get away. Yeah, all right. Yeah, so my in-laws are going to watch the kids. But I never have time alone with her anymore. Having six kids is crazy. Do you have a future WWB superstar in your household? Well, one wants to be our adopted son, Joseph. He's a big WWE fan.

And he wants me to get him a tryout when he gets older. So I told him if he does well in school, I'll get him a try out. And you're okay with having one of your kids be a wrestler? No, no. I, um, it's, the thing is, today it's not. so bad. You know, what Vince McMahon has been able to do with the drug policy, the wellness policy, you know, these guys having to go through physicals every year. If they can't pass physical, it can't wrestle. The food that they serve at the arenas is incredible. They are personal

trainers and doctors and trainers. So they catered so much to the athlete right now that I would feel okay with it. Yeah, back when I was there, we didn't have any of that. We were lucky to have a doctor. Yeah, yeah.

So there's a lot of good things that Vince McMahon has done to keep the company ahead of all the other competition. I think, I mean, obviously people know you for the great in-ring work that you did,

but some of your best moments, we saw this in your Hall of Fame induction, with the stuff that happened outside the ring, like the milk truck. And I don't know if everybody knows this story, but that wasn't actually all milk. You were spraying on people. No.

stuff in the cartons was and you have this great story about like you got this milk all over your clothes and on your shoes and then had to get on a plane smelling like milk. Yeah. That was my fault. I just got done and I had milk all over me and there was a red eye flight in an hour and it was the only fly I could catch that night. Right. I went soaking wet.

I got on the plane and after about three hours you could smell like sour milk and everybody's looking around like, who stinks? It was great. And like, obviously you got off the plane and you throw those shoes out? Yeah, I had to throw the shoes out. Yeah, yeah. And it was funny.

I mean, you know, anytime, if I could do it all over again, I would. The scene of looks on those people's faces at the plane. Yeah. Some of the other great moments were like the stuff with Austin, Austin and Vince. Yeah, we had a lot of fun. Do you still have the time?

Cowboy hat? No, no, I think Steve has it. Really? Oh, yeah. Well,

he's the one and bought it. For real. He saw it in an airport. He was like, I need to get this for angle.

So we had a lot of fun. And the crazy thing is most of those segments were not, there was no verbiage written. It was an idea

that Vince came up with or Steve Austin. And they just said, listen, let's go with

you know, say your verbiage and whatever you want to say and at the end, don't laugh. Just whatever you do, don't laugh because if you laugh, it's gone. Right. So, they don't want to catch anyone laughing on film.

So we were doing the segments and once Vince would yell cut, everybody would start laughing so hard because we couldn't contain ourselves. But it was so funny, we had such good chemistry. It was, yeah, Deborah and Steve. Steve and Vince and myself, and we had a lot of fun. You ended up embracing it, but did the youth suck chance ever get to you?

No, no. I, you know, it started with Edge. Yeah. You know, he, it did stick. Well, at first it was angle. Yes. Engel. Yeah.

And, yeah, Edge came up with it. And I liked it. The thing is, the more I went crazy, the more things. did it. Right. And I was like, this is cool. You know,

I got them. They think they have me, but I have them, you know, and it was a lot of fun doing that, especially the night when I told everybody that, you know, that I earned the right to be called,

you know, that I suck. So it was, it was pretty cool. When you were about to return for this most recent run, I'm like, they can't, they can't sing you suck.

Current angle's too good. And then your music hits and. They did. They always will. You know, it's great because the WBA universe, they always want to be a part of the show. And any time that they could be a part of an entrance or a segment or a match, you know, they're going to want to be part of that.

And that's what it's all about. That's why we entertain fans and why we go, we travel around arena to arena to let people see this from a live standpoint. Yeah. And to be involved in the show. So the U-Suck thing is just, you know, one. thing that we do that the fans are able to do every night, you know. Daniel Bryan, it's yes, yes, yes, yes. At least that one's positive, though. I know. Well, what about Austin? What? What the hell's

that? I can't believe that's still around. I know. Almost 20 years later. Yeah, there's a lot of fans still do it. You're right. What do you think it is inside of you that's always made you want to be the best? I mean, it was the case, even before you won the Olympic gold and then going into WWE and still to this day. I don't know. I just, I've always whatever I step into I end up falling in love with when I get married to something

I do it excessively so when I wrestling the Olympics I trained excessively I knew what I wanted and I knew where I wanted to go same with WWE you know a lot of people were saying Kurt Dangles you know

transferring from Olympic wrestling to pro wrestling and he's not going to get it and he's going to be an intercontinental champion at most, which, by the way, is a major honor. Sure. But, you know, they were trying to say that I would never get to a level of main event status. But I did. And I knew why I did, and I knew what I had to do.

I spent a lot of time getting ready on my own because, you know, back when I started, we didn't have a VW. We had the Dory Funk Dojo, and there were two camps. They were both five days long. And that was it. Then they quit. Wow. I didn't have anything.

So I didn't really, you know, Vince Rand didn't really work with me with promos or pre-tapes or all I did was worked on wrestling. And I did dark matches every week for Ron Smackdown. And that was it. Wow. And then I, you know, the night he started me on TV, he wanted me talking. And I was like, Vince, I don't know if I can do it. He said, well, we'll find out. Yeah.

And he said, we're going to throw you in the river, see if you sink or swim. Which of the three eyes do you think is the most difficult to do? Which is the most difficult to have? I would say, for me, integrity. I'm good in intensity and I'm fairly intelligent. But my integrity and the wrestling ring, you know, I was mainly a heel most of my career. And, you know, I would always preach the audience about, you know, having integrity. Yeah.

And I never did. So, you know. Which is why it worked. Yes, yes. And it was a lot of fun. Vince came out with that. Brian Goertz and Vince McMahon came up with the stuff that I did. What I said, like I told you, I didn't have any experience.

I didn't know how to be creative to write myself promos and, you know, do, I would do what they told me to do. And every week they had something great for me. It was like I was a little kid to candy store just like picking whatever I wanted because you know, fortunately you know, from a heel standpoint

every week I stole a show. Not just from wrestling, but like, you know, you know, doing the, you know, sexy curd or you know, the wrap off of Sina or the milk thing or, you know, just bringing a motor scooter out for

for Undertaker and just I had a lot of dimension to me and and and the Brian Gorses and Vince McMahon made sure that they they made me a very complex character and it was it was a lot of fun is there anyone I mean you've been working a lot behind the scenes in WWE is there anyone there that you think has the intensity that you had in your prime uh where in NXT WWE NXT wherever um I'm really high right now I really like this ricochet kid and he is him and Cedric Alexander. I just, I had their match this past week. It was on main event.

And this man, these guys have taken wrestling to another level. I mean, it's no longer ground wrestling. These guys are in the air flying. Yeah. And they don't, they don't do it too excessively. They do it, they do it the right way, you know, when you need it. or, you know, they're not just doing it, try to be cool or make it look cool. It's whenever you need it, that's when you go to the air.

And I think guys like that, you know, like the 205 Live Division, Buddy Murphy, and, you know, he's starting to come into his own, Alistair Black. You know, these guys are really, really good, and they're going to have big careers. Well, I want to be respectful of your time. But I also want to say thank you so much. Thanks, ma'am. Such a pleasure to chat with you. here today. I know you have to pick your daughter up very soon here, but what an honor to chat with you.

Thank you so much, and I'm glad to see you're doing so well. The bioaccelerator with the stem cells really helping you out. My shoulders have got a lot better. They say it takes two to six months for recovery, so it's only been two months. My shoulders are good, my neck and back are still waiting on it, but I'm not up for missing. Well, it's such a pleasure to sit with you and hear all these stories. And thank you for everything. Really. Appreciate you. I appreciate it. Thank you, Kurt. Well, there you have it, my friends.

Wow, I really enjoyed that chat. And what a way to kick off the year, to kick off the new decade. Kurt Angle is such a goat. And hearing his perspective on everything there was amazing. So I told you at the start of the show, it took me six hours to get there. It took me five-ish to get back. So 11 hours in the car round trip on a random Wednesday to make this interview happen. One thousand percent worth it.

by the way. Although the whole drive back, I was thinking, I loved this interview. I just don't know which part I loved the most. Like, what stuck out the most for me? I don't know. So let me know. Let me know what it was for you. Let me know what you enjoyed the most of this. Take a screenshot, tag me, tag Kurt Angle, and let us know. And man, starting off the year strong. And we've got so many more interviews. I'm actually flying to Las Vegas as we, as you're listening to this right now in the Thursday, flying to Las Vegas to do some more interviews, which I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to exactly say who it is. You'll see it's the next episode.

Hopefully it all goes to plan. It's the next episode and it's going to be super in-depth and super just good. It's going to be a real good one. So you'll be seeing that one next week. Let me know who you want to see or here on the show this year. And I will do my best to line them up. Don't expect people to support your dreams. Your dreams are for you.

They have their own. Their support is not required. for you to make progress. Great words from Brendan Burchard, as we start the new decade. 2020, it is the year of clear, perfect vision, 2020 vision.

Have a great week, and we will see you next Thursday. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all.

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