Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Kurt Angle On John Cena's Retirement, 'Perc Angle', Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Brock Lesnar

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Tickets are on sale now for INSIGHT LIVE in Toronto, Las Vegas & Indianapolis with VIP Meet & Greet! Kurt Angle (@RealKurtAngle) is a retired professional wrestler and WWE Hall of Famer. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Pittsburgh, PA to discuss his legendary WWE and TNA careers after winning a gold medal at the 1996 Olympics, the merchandise he wishes could have been made, the origin of his "It's True" catchphrase, why he wishes he could have ended his in-ring career 10 years sooner, his legendary matches with Chris Benoit, being the odds-on favorite to induct John Cena into the WWE Hall of Fame, the 'Perc Angle' nickname and his battle with addiction, getting into a backstage fight with Eddie Guerrero and more! Quote I'm thinking about: "It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop." - Confucius Sponsors: PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insight33 to get 33% off your order of Mitopure while supplies last ORGAIN: For 30% off your order, head to https://Orgain.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT SQUARESPACE: Head to https://www.squarespace.com/INSIGHT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code INSIGHT VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at https://bluechew.com RHONE: Rhone’s premium performance clothing is made to move you. Use code CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV MANSCAPED: Get 20% off plus free shipping when you use the code CHRISVAN at https://manscaped.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Right. Welcome back to another one here on Inside. It's me. It's me. It's CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Hey, thank you for being with us on this one. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet.

Slap an ankle lock on that follow button wherever you're listening right now. Because if we've started off 2025, as strong as we have, just wait until you see what we have coming up for the rest of the year. There's a few bucket list interviews that we're going to be ticking off in the next few months. So keep an eye out for those ones. And we've got some big things happening this year. The first three live events are scheduled. We're taking Insight and some big guests on the road for Insight Live. We're going to Indianapolis the day before the Royal Rumble. Toronto, the day before Elimination Chamber. That's right. I'm coming home, baby. Can't wait to be back home in Toronto. And then we've got Las Vegas during WrestleMania week at Circa Resort and Casino.

Tickets for all three of those are on sale right now. It's CVVTix.com. That's CVVTX.com. So I hope to see you at least one of those. But maybe all three of them. That'd be amazing. So good to have Kurt Engel back in the show. And great to sit down with him in Pittsburgh for this one. And when you think of pure technical wrestlers, Kurt is easily in the top three, top five, just the intensity that he brought to every match. But what makes him really stand out

from other people on that list is how he wasn't afraid to be silly and how he wasn't afraid to lean into the comedic side of things. Think of some of his most iconic moments. They're hilarious, the milk truck, the man who plays with boys promo, the stuff with Stone Cold and the tiny cowboy hat.

He's a legend. He's a legend. And it's amazing that he's equally as good in the ring and, like, being serious as he is outside of the ring with all the other stuff that he did. Amazing. We covered a lot of things during this interview that Kurt hasn't talked about before. So I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. I appreciate Kurt for being as open and as honest as he always is. It's always great to sit down with Kurt.

Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. Let us know what stands out for you the most from this conversation. And tag us. He's at Real Kurt Angle on Instagram and Twitter and also on TikTok. TikTok's back. I'm at Chris VanVleet on Instagram and Twitter. Chris dot VanVleet on TikTok if you're looking for me there.

And let's do this. Ladies and gentlemen, the one and only Kurt Angle. Kurt, always good to see you. You too, Chris. You are a Pittsburgh legend. You mention your name anywhere around here in Pittsburgh. And people are like, yeah, of course. Kurt Engel.

Yeah, you know what? I grew up here and I stayed here. And when you grow up in a certain city and you make a name for yourself, the people adore you even more if you stay. So I'm a Pittsburgher for life. What was the reason you stayed because you could live anywhere? Family. You know, my wife's family, my family, we have a really tight-knit family.

And to move away from them would not, it wouldn't be beneficial for us, especially, you know, having six kids, you know, my, my, laws do a lot of babysitting for us. So we wouldn't have that opportunity if I'd move somewhere else. They always say the greatest parenting hack is just live close to the grandparents. Yes, yes. Actually, they practically live with us. Even better. It's actually better, yes, yes. How close were you to being a Pittsburgh Steeler? Ah, you know what? It's a long story. I'll make it short. A football player or a wrestler, three-time national champion Division I NCAA championships.

His name was Carlton Hasserick. And when he graduated college, he didn't play football. Never played football a day in his life. When he graduated college, he won three NCAA Division I titles. And the Steelers called him and said, hey, you want to come try out. And not only that, but he didn't even try out. What they did instead is they drafted them in the eighth round,

the lower, one of the lowest lower rounds. Yeah. And they brought him on the team and he did incredibly well. He was like a seven-time all-pro. And they saw me. I was the next one coming up through the ranks for the NCAA wrestling. And I dominated for the next three years, just like Carlton did. And Steelers thought, you know what, this kid might be a good choice too. Even though I was, I tried out of a skill position, which is backfield, defensive

a back, you know, quarterback, anytime that, you know, you have a lot of movement. Carlton was a line. So he was an incredible athlete, and he was so much better than the other athletes on the line. So I understand why they picked him and why they drafted him. But for me, being at a skilled position, you have to have a college experience. You can't, you know, they want me to be a running back. And it's like, you know, going from wrestling to pro football, it's, you know, it's a hard

transition. So it wasn't going to have. Well, they had me try out. I had a real good try out. They wanted me to go to NFL Europe for a year or so, and I didn't want to do that. And don't forget, the reason why I tried out for the Steelers is because I wasn't making the World Team or the Olympic team in wrestling. So in 1993 and 1994, I was losing. I ended up third and 93 and second in 94. I kept losing to these two wrestlers consistently. And so, after the 1994 season, I decided to quit. I figured what's the use of them? They're going to beat these guys. So why even try? So that's when the Steelers approached me.

And I tried out for them. And I'm glad that I didn't make the team because I ended up coming back after five months. And I made myself a promise that I was going to do everything possible to make sure that I could give the very best I can in the tryouts in 95 and 96. So I did something that really helped me. It was called exhaust training. That's when you train to you're exhausted, and that's when the training actually begins. It's almost a form of torture.

I learned this from the University of Iowa head wrestler coach Dan Gable. He taught his wrestlers this, and they were always the most well-conditioned wrestlers. So I did that, and in 95 and 96, I won the World Championships and I won the Olympic gold medal. When I defeated both years and never looked back. Did you have a moment in Atlanta in 96 where you went, it doesn't get any better than this? Because you changed your whole life just to make the Olympics.

Then you win gold at the Olympics. They can't get any better. No. You know what? Actually, after I won on national TV, I literally said, if I died tonight, I'd be having this man in the world. Because that's all I ever set out to do. But the difficult part about that is what was I going to do the next day? Okay, I woke up the next morning.

I'm like, what am I going to do now? And I didn't have any plans. I graduated college. I had a degree, but I wasn't going to use the degree. And I was like, what am I going to do now? This is tough. So what happened was the WVE approached me in 96, and Vince McMahon offered me a multimillion dollar deal.

My family doesn't have money. I didn't have money. He offers me a multi-million dollar deal. And I'm like, holy crap. I said, Vince, I don't know if I want to join yet. can I take this home and think about it? He said, yeah, take it home and think about it, but sign it and send it back to me.

I know you're going to say yes. And I went home and I talked to my brothers, and they were like, you're not doing that crap. That's fake, you're real. And I understood that because back in the 90s, amateur wrestling always took a back seat to pro wrestling. In other words, if someone asked me what I did for a living, I'd say, I'd say, oh, one of those wrestlers on TV,

I'd be like, no, you idiot. You know Hulk Logan? Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, it really hurt your pride, you know, that you're an Olympic wrestler, and they think that you're a pro wrestler when they hear the word wrestling. So the amateur wrestling community always was sour about pro wrestling. So my coaches didn't want me to do it.

My brothers didn't want me to do it. But what happened in 1998 is Vince came out of the closet and said, we are no longer sport. We're sports entertainment. And that's when everybody went, hey, you can do it now. And so in me, I fell miserably as a sportscaster. And I didn't have any direction. So I turned on TV in 1998, the TV, and I decided to start watching Raw. And I fell in love with Stonecoach Steve Austin.

I mean, he just, he made it so exciting. The show was entertaining and the rest of us were incredible athletes. And I saw myself doing it. And so I called the WB, and I asked that contract still, in 1996, and they said, no, but you can come up and try out. So I figured nothing in my life's ever come easily. This one of you, I'll go up and work for it. So I went up and tried out.

After the first day, I picked up on everything pretty quickly. So they offered me a contract. It wasn't a very good contract. It was only $7,5,000 a year. It's a lot less than the million you're offered. If you're a pro wrestler, and you're making $75 grand a year, and you're traveling 300 days a year, and you have to pay for your hotel, your rental car, $75,000 doesn't go very far.

Yeah. So it wasn't that great of a contract. But they did sign me, and I trained for seven months before I went on W.E. Television. Prize picks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active users. It's the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports, because unlike other apps, on prize picks, it's just you against the numbers. All you do is pick more or less on two to six player stat projections and watch the winnings roll in. You can also, Now win up to 100 times your money on prize picks with as little as four correct picks.

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R-I-com flash CVV. Where do you make the most money as a wrestler? Is it in the contract? Is it in the merch? Is it in the percentage of the gate? All three. The contract, okay, back then in the late 90s and early 2000s, the highest guarantee you could get was a million.

And only a few people got it. Is that because Stone Cold and the Rock were making a million? Yep. Yep. Stone Cold, the Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, myself. I'm not big show I think uh that's about it but now you can they're offering like eight 10 12 million dollars a year now wow it's really opened up but back then so you you were guaranteed that but if you work full time you're going to make two three four times out so where do you

where does the extra money come in um merchandise comes in with merchandise but you have to be a businessman which i wasn't um uh you're all you're also you know pay-per-view buys If you're main eventing a pay review, you're going to get a hell of a lot more than the other guys are. We're talking significantly more, 50, 70 grand more. Wow. So, yeah, so that's another way to make more money. But for me, for the most part, I made about, honestly, two and a half million a year. I did all right.

But, no, I'm sorry you say it. I did fantastic. But I wasn't a businessman. I didn't promote myself. You know, I didn't do a lot of merchandise. I didn't know. I went into pro wrestling thinking, all I have to do is wrestling,

and that's it. But you have to market yourself. And I didn't do that. I didn't do that at all. And watching Stone Cold, Steve Austin, you know, rumor has it that, you know, he made tens of millions of dollars with merchandise. So, you know, he obviously was a good business man,

but he was also the most popular wrestler of all. all time. Timmerha Halk Hogan. People still buy Austin 316 years and a half. Oh, God, yeah, until this day. Yeah. And if he makes an appearance, he's going to sell 8,000 of the t-shirts right at the arena.

Yeah, yeah. Is there a piece of merch that you regret not making? Hmm. Because think about this. Yeah, my gold medal. Yes. Yeah. That's exactly what I was going to say.

Yeah, but the problem was, I don't know how this happened, but somebody started making them. And the reason why I couldn't make them is because we weren't a lot of duplicate them. But somebody else did it. And now a lot of fans come to me with these gold medals and I'm signing it. And I'm like, where'd you get this? And, you know, they say, I got it online. And I'm like, well, somebody, you know, snuck in there and, you know, made those gold medals without the Olympic or the Olympic Committee's permission. But they didn't have to be Atlanta gold medals. They could have been just a WWE gold medal. You're right. But they made it Atlanta. I'm not sure how they did that. But, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like that could have been, I could have been huge if you did that. It definitely would have been huge, yeah. Especially all those little kids that want gold medals that strive to, you know, be the best. Yeah. Yeah, it would have been, it would have been a great moneymaker for me. At what point did you realize it's true was catching on as a catchphrase? That came by mistake. You know, Vince McMahon was having me cut promos, and whenever I go to one city or whatever city or whatever town, he would have me pick on their sports teams.

And usually their sports teams were doing horrible. So when I would say, hey, you know, your Olympic heroes here to save your year, you know, save your year, I represent you now instead of the, you know, Detroit Pistons who actually suck right now. And the fans would boo me and I'd say, no, it's true. It's damn true. So that came by mistake just because I was reacting to the fans' reaction. What do you think is the hardest of the three eyes to actually follow? Integrity.

Yeah. Sometimes intelligence. I do some stupid things. Ah, come on. No. What's the stupidest thing you've done in wrestling? Oh, God. Moon sold off the top of the cage.

The one on to Ken Anderson? Yeah, yep. I did that actually against Chris Benoit, Ken Anderson. And I did it one other time, and I can't remember who was with. And you took one from Cody, too. Yes, yes, I did. Yeah. Cody Rhodes.

Was the one to Ken Anderson the worst one? Yeah, I landed on his face. And usually when I do it, I miss. They got moves. For the first time, Ken's like, I'll take it. I'm like, you don't want to take that. He said, no, no, no, I'll take it. I'll be okay.

So we did it, and I landed right on his face. It looked like he was maybe too close. He was a little bit, but I went straight up instead of back. So I kind of gauge where I was. going to be. I was able to land on him barely, but I landed on his face. Did you immediately know? Oh, that's not good. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I was hurting. You know, I hurt my stomach. I knocked the wind out of myself. But I figured if I'm hurting this bad, Ken's hurting worse. The way you sold that, like it looked like you were in genuine pain. Well, that, that was half

fake and half real. You always had, I think, one of the most beautiful moon salts. Oh, thank you. You know what's crazy? I never practiced it. It's one of those things you don't want to practice. I mean, you could put a crash mat on there and go ahead and do it, but what the hell if you're going to do it? Just go ahead and do it and take a chance and see how it goes. I mean, I don't know any other way.

I don't know anybody that does practice moonsaults off the top of a cage. I could see them doing it at the top of the rope. Sure. But practicing off the top of the cage is just stupidity. But when did you realize you had that in your arsenal? Because it's so smooth, it's just perfect in the execution. Well, you know what? I did a lot of diving when I was younger, growing up even through high school.

And I learned how to, like, you know, do double flips and off the diving board and, you know, gainers and stuff like that. So a lot of back flips. And so I knew I had that ability. I just never thought it would be in a wrestling ring. So if you're doing gainers, you could do a shooting star press. Yes, I could. I actually have done it, but I... In a match?

No, no. Okay. I'm trying to think. I practiced it. I actually did that on a crash pad. And I ended up, I ended up landing on my knees. I didn't hit it on my stomach. So I was close, but no cigar. Yeah, that sounds like it could be painful. Yeah, well, I hit a crash bat, so I was okay. That's okay. What is the most painful thing you've done in a wrestling ring?

Oh, God. when I broke my neck against Brock Lester, when he hit me, he hit me over the head with a chair. It was the third time I broke my neck. Brock brought it and went straight over my head instead of swinging sideways. And I should have told him what happened was he was supposed to hit Chris Benoit and myself with a chair. And Chris told him before the match started, swing sideways so you don't go on top of my head where it crunches down on your neck. And I didn't tell him to do that. So he swung sideways on Benoit, hit him, which was a safe hit.

And he came over top and everything he had. He brought it, brought it. And right on top of my head, I knew right then I heard my neck crack. I was like, and my right arm completely went numb. I couldn't even use it. I couldn't raise it. And it was really painful. And I broke my neck before the Olympics.

And then the first time in WWE was against Brock, but it was a different move. It was actually, I was on his back. He ran across the ring. and he went to hit the turnbuckle with his back. We both hit sideways, my neck snapped sideways, and it broke right there. And my left arm I couldn't raise. So it was a different injury in my neck, but it was, you know, I still, I broke my neck again. So Brock Lesder broke your neck twice.

Twice, yes, he did. I'm sure you're not blaming Brock Leicester for it. Or maybe you are. I don't know. No, no. Brock's an incredible worker. He's always been safe. It's actually my fault, because I call both of those spots.

I like that you're taking the credit for it. How were you able to move your neck, move all your limbs now? Well, I was going to have artificial disc replacements. I talked to Joe Rogan about it when I was on a show. And so he forwarded some doctors for me to talk to. And I went to see them, and I wanted to get the disc replacement so my neck would have relief. And when they did an MRI of my neck, they found out that my neck naturally fused together. So I don't have discs in between my neck.

All I have is vertebrae. It's all bone. Wow. So it fused together, and now my neck is where it is. There's nothing I can do about it. So I have to deal with the pain and move on with life. Are you in pain now? Yeah.

Yeah. My fingers are numb. I have motor skill problems with my hands. A lot of issues. And I, you know, my, I have atrophy in both arms. I lost three inches above my arms. Thank God. they both atrophied because if you ever saw Chris Benoit, when he atrophied one arm,

he had this little tiny arm and the other arm was big. Paul Orndorf, too, had it. Yeah. And that's the last thing I want is have one big arm, one small arm, but they both shrunk at the same time. Is there a certain amount of regret that you have? If you had picked a different career after the Olympics. You know what? I wish I would have, I wish I would have finished my career in the WVE 10 years.

shorter. WBNTNA. So in other words, instead of 20 years, I think 10 would have been enough. And I think I would have been okay. But I pushed myself further and, you know, got into my 40s and I kept working at a high pace. And the only time, the reason why I retired is because I was, I was losing a step. And I could see it when I watched me on film. I didn't like what I saw. I didn't want the fans remembering me as a broken down Kurt Angle. I wanted them to remember me when I was in my prime. And that occurred when I went back to the WBE for the second time. And that was in 2017.

When I came back, I ended up, they wanted to induct me in Hall of Fame. And I was like, Vince, I'm not done wrestling. He's like, well, we'll get to the wrestling. And then he said that night after the Hall of Fame, he said, I want you to be a general manager of Ross. I was like, Vince, I want to wrestle. He said, it's coming. So he made me general manager of Raw for nine months.

And during those nine months, I was inactive. I never got in the ring. I was so busy doing general manager stuff, I couldn't get in the ring. And by the time they had me wrestle, I looked like an old man. Taking those nine months off, especially at my age, close to 50, it just, it, it, it, I shut down. My body shut down. And I literally, my knees were bent full time. Like I couldn't straight my knees out.

I had to have knee replacements. Now I'm my knee straight. Hey, look at you now. Yeah. But I had a rough time in that ring. And, you know, I wanted to retire against John Cena, but I was doing a program with Baron Corbyn. And Vince McMan said, if you wait another year, we'll give you Sina. And I said, Vince, I want to retire this year.

I don't want to be the person I am right now. I don't want to be out there in the ring where I lost the step. and I don't want the fans remember me like that. He said, well, you're going to have to wrestle carbon. And that was fine. If you had waited another year, you would have been wrestling in front of nobody. You're right. So at least you retired in front of a sold-out crowd.

You're exactly right. Was there an... If you wanted to retire 10 years earlier, was there an opportunity for you in 2009 to go back to WWE? Yeah, yeah, there was definite opportunity. You know, the reason why... I was having a hard time getting back in the Do you know, I was having a hard time getting back in 2016-17. When that, that's when I was trying to, you know, go back to where I, where I started.

And, you know, I told TNA, thank you so much for the 11 years. I appreciate it. But I wanted to go back and finish my career where I started. Was also, by the way, something happening in TNA at that time because 2016 is when A.J. left, when Bobby Rood left. Well, I would say this. I don't know for sure, but I could be safe to say that. the money was running out, and I could see that.

And I was making seven figures a year. So they were paying me handsomely. And I figured, you know, if they wanted to keep me, you know, they would have to pay me another seven figures, and I didn't think they were going to be able to. So that's when I decided, you know, this might be the right time. I tried to go back to W.E. And Vince McMahon said bad reputation,

because I had four DUIs. That's when I was making really horrible choices. I had four DUI. So Vince had me sit and I waited for about a year and a half, two years before they brought up. Was there a chance in 2009? Did you have conversations with WWE then? No, no.

I was happy in TNA. I was literally moving along nicely, and I love being there. The great thing about it is, you know, you got to, be creative yourself. You know, you got the, they would give you an idea, a promo, and you would, you would,

you would write the promo and do it. And, you know, when you wrestled, usually you have agents that will structure the matches for you. We did it ourselves for the most part. It seems like you flipped it into a completely different gear when you debuted in TNA. I, and I was excited about it. When people see your TNA matches and they compare them to your early, 2000s, WWE matches, doesn't even look like the same person. Yeah.

Well, you know what? The one thing about pro wrestling, and a lot of people don't understand this, but you don't really come into your own until about six, seven years into your career. And that's about when I went to TNA, right around my six and a half, seventh year. And that's when I was in my prime and I was really shugging along really good. And that's one of my best matches, it were. And so I was the wrestling machine in WWB right before I left. I was having great matches then.

But in TNA, I flipped to another gear and I was on a different level. Fans seem to like to blame it on the painkillers. You know the nickname, right? Yeah, yeah. What do you think of the nickname? You know what? I know that fans, you know, it's almost like they want me to feel good about it. Like, you know, it's, it's, the fans are having fun with it.

Yeah. Because I was the best wrestler in the business. Absolutely. So, you know, they want to say that, you know, Kurt Engel was perk angle. That's why he was doing it because he was all perked up. The thing is, I didn't, I didn't use painkillers while I was wrestling. I did them in the morning and then at night I would wrestle and then I did painkillers after I got done wrestling.

So I never wrestled high. Were you in a lot of? lot of pain when you were wrestling? Yeah, yeah, I was in a lot of pain. You know, I got introduced to painkillers in 2003 after I broke my neck the second time. And, man, not only did they mask the pain, but for me, they made me feel really good. I mean, I knew I liked it. Like, I was, like, drawn to it, like, wow, this is, this makes me feel energetic, you know? And so I know that's kind of the euphoric feeling you get with that, but I loved it. And I knew right away that I'm going to have a problem with these. People seem to have this misconception that that's why

you wrestled so well in Tiana. No, listen, you can't wrestle messed up. It's going to be sloppy. You've seen people in the past that have wrestled high. You know, people are like, what's wrong with them? You know, and so you can't do that. It's almost impossible, especially to have a good match. you have to be sober or you're not you're not going to have a good match. Was it, did you feel like you were proving something in TNA? Because it just, it really truly felt like you had flipped into another gear. Well, you know what? I guess a little bit because in WW, you know, I don't blame this for them for this.

But in WWE, you know, when I was addicted to painkillers, they were, they knew I had a problem. and they, you know, they want me to fix it. And, you know, they even had me sit at home for a week and try to go through a withdrawal. And that didn't work very well. And so, like, they were telling me that, you know, they were ignoring the situation. They had me working full time. I was working 300 days a year. And I was caught on the painkillers.

I was even getting injured quite a bit. I was injuring my neck, my hamstring, my groin, my abdominal muscle, my shoulder, everything was going. And they just never let up on me. And I started getting like a sour taste in my mouth about WV. And so when I left the WVE, I went to TNA, and I said, I'm going to stick it to them. And not that I did because, you know, you're not going to stick it to WVE. It's too big of a company.

And they have an incredible product. So, but to me, it just made me feel better. I'm going to stick it to them and show them how good I am. But you arguably had the best matches your career. I did. I did. I had, you know, AJ Stiles and Samoa Joe, Sting, Jeff Jarrett, a lot of those guys. Bobby Rood, James Storm, Christopher Daniels, so many incredible athletes.

Alex Shelley, Chris Saban. I had a lot of great matches. I was so excited about going to TNA because I heard about AJ and Joe, and they were barely known at this time, you know. You had to be in wrestling to know who they were. And it was like, man, I'm going to, you know, I'm salivating. I can't wait to get in the ring with those guys. You've mentioned his name a few times in this conversation, but Chris Benoit. Yeah.

And I saw that you had mentioned something about one of your favorite matches ever was you versus him at the Rumble, I think. Yeah. Does it feel strange that you have to be guarded with the way that you talk about your matches with him? Well, I will tell you this. I did it for a while. I did what I was told to do was to pretend Benoit didn't exist.

But what that did for me is it took away all my best matches. It was robbing on my legacy. So by saying that Chris Benoit no longer exists, is saying I never had those matches. And it's like, whoa, I have my best matches with that game. And he was an incredible wrestler. I don't condone what he did, you know, what he did was 100% wrong.

And, you know, it's unforgivable. But, you know, how he was in the ring, he was the best in-ring worker I've ever been in the ring with. He reminded me of me. I felt like I was wrestling my twin. What was it that allowed you guys to bring out the best in each other? Intensity. Chris, nobody more intense than him except for me.

We brought it and we would stay on each other. And we just had, we had incredible chemistry where we, we were able to do finished tradeoffs and submission tradeoffs like nobody else. I mean, nobody compared to us. You know, we would go from the ankle lock to the crippling cross face, back to the ankle lock, to the angle slam, to, you know, just, we had all these different spots in the match that really made it really, really good. Like, I will say this.

I believe that Chris and I might have had the greatest wrestle match of all time at Royal Rumble. 2003. That's how confident I feel about it. If no one's ever seen it, you've got to watch the match. I mean, we barely threw any punches, a couple of kicks. It was all wrestling. And that's really difficult to do, especially today. Do you consider Chris Benoit your greatest rival? Yes, yes, I do. Hammer, Brock Lesner. I also love wrestling Sean Michaels, but we only wrestled three or four times. It wasn't like a big program. But Benoit and I, We went for years. I mean, you know, it would be him and me, and then they would take a break from it,

and then they'd go back to him and me and take a break. Then it would be him and me tagging together when we'd be tagging and fighting each other while we were tagging. We just had a really strong program, and it went on for years. But Brock, our program went on for about two and a half, three years, and that was a good run. With John Seen on his retirement tour right now, your name keeps getting thrown around because you were his first opponent. people seem to think that there's a chance

you could be his last opponent. And I think it's just, you know, you've said it so many times, but I think it's important to make it clear that you can't wrestle anymore. No, I can't wrestle anymore. Actually, you know what I did? I did wrestle about two months ago.

I did a commercial for CBS. And it was for the NFL pregame for the Ravens and Steelers. So me and a gentleman named Kyle Brandt, he's a sportscaster for CBS. he uh he pretend he was the ravens and i pretend i was a stealers we had a pro wrestling match and i was bumping and um so you're telling me there's a chance no no no because what happened was i threw my back out and i couldn't walk for a week after that and my wife was like you're never

getting in that ring again and she's right i i shouldn't even got in the ring but um it was a lot of fun to do it but i i would love the rest with john cina there's there's nobody that wants to wrestle John more than I do for his retired match, especially with the respect I have for him, I just can't do it. You got 11 months between now and the end of the year. Yeah, yeah. Why is it not possible? Because if I get in the ring and I start beating myself up, I'll never heal.

It's just not possible? I could just walk in there cold and have a match with them, but then I probably regret it when I was done. You're the best in the world. I feel like it was. Ah, come on. If you look at the betting websites, if you look at my bookie, you are the favorite to induct John Cena into the Hall of Fame. Really?

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you this, there are a lot of people that deserve to induct John. Randy O'Artin, who was his biggest, I guess, competition or, you know, his nemesis. But Stephanie McMahon, don't forget that she's the one that discovered his rapping ability. and she was a big fan of his. I mean, she really supported him quite often. But, no, listen, I'd be honored to Dr. John Cena. You know, the one thing I want to say about him is he has shown that he is possibly the greatest

W.W. Superstar of all time. Winning 16 World Heavyweight titles in one company, Rick Flair won 16, but he won them, you know, in NWA and WCW and WCW and WV. And there's nothing, you can't take that away from him. They were all major promotions. But to do it all in one company, that makes you that company's biggest star. And I really believe that he deserves another title before he retires. It feels like that's going to happen at some point this year.

Yeah, I think so too. So number 17 is going to happen somewhere in there. And it should. It should. You think you might get a call at some point this year to do it. segment with him yeah that could be possible um you know if they need me to do something like that you know that that's cool i'm sure rar smackdown will come to pittsburgh at some point in time who better to bring out than pittsburgh's own olympic hero that's right they actually brought me on

tv for my birthday a couple years ago and then uh then they uh they brought me on to spray down uh who was it oh was chaggabal and odis with milk yes what i i did with with Gable Stevenson. Yeah. So I've had a couple of dates here in Pittsburgh. So usually when I, they come to Pittsburgh for TV, they usually give me a call and say,

hey, would you do something? Makes sense. I've seen a lot of people talk about, man, the dream match that I would love to see is Kurt Angle versus Chad Gable. And I'm like,

it happened. We saw it. Yeah, yeah. That was when I was at my worst. And you'd still look so good. It was okay. It was, but Chad,

Chad, Chad's incredible. He's a very talented kid, and I'm just glad that they're utilizing them properly because I know because he's undersized a little bit. They didn't know what to do with him, but this kid could be a world champion and be very marketable. I mean, especially with the gimmick he has right now, with the whole USA thing and you suck and everything where, you know, it's like he's like my, you know, he's like my son.

Like he should have been your son. Yeah, he should have been. Yeah, exactly. But Vince McMahon had other ideas having Jason Jordan be my son, which was ridiculous, but that, you know, that was cool. They're doing the you suck chant at him. I know, I know. And, you know what?

It's crazy because when they did it to me, when they first started doing it, it was because they thought I really suck. And for Chad, it's a term of endearment. So they're saying, you're awesome. instead of you suck. But they're just saying it because they used to say that to me. How do you not hear that for the first time and go, do they actually think I suck?

I don't suck, right? Yeah, yeah, you start to question yourself. Right? Yeah, yeah. And then you start to then eventually, like, play into it and go, yeah, that's my thing. And agree with it, yeah. You know what? The crazy thing is when they started doing it,

Vince McMahon wanted me to fight it. He wanted me like, no, don't say that. and stop talking. I'm not going to talk until you guys stop saying you suck. And I'd wait there for five minutes and it'd go. So it didn't really work. But I turned baby fix. The fans turn me baby fix.

They were even trying to make me a heel. I mean, I was saying degrading stuff about our military and African Americans and crazy stuff. And the fans still like me. And it was like, and then I did a promo where, I was like, you know what, I could do anything I want. I could make Jesus tap or I could, you know, I was just saying these things that are arrogant. And the fans are still cheering me. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't.

They're trying to turn me heal, but their fans are keeping me baby face. So that's what Vince said, you know what? Start going with you suck. You suck, you know. And encourage them to say it. So that's what we start doing. You guys know that being healthy is a big focus of my life. And I'm always looking to incorporate better.

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clinically proven to rejuvenate health at the cellular level. Timeline is offering 33% off your order of mitopure while supplies last. Go to timeline.com slash Insight 3-3. That's timeline, T-I-M-E-L-N-E-E dot com slash Insight-3-3. There's a photo that popped up recently on social media. I'll show this too. It's you and Eddie backstage. And I'm curious if you remember anything about this.

This is an iconic photo. Oh, yeah, yeah, that thing. Do you remember when or where that was or maybe what you guys were talking about? You know what? That was, okay. Eddie and I, we had a little scuffle one night. What happened was I was in a faction called the Honor Society. It was with Luther, Raines, and Mark Ginger.

And we were supposed to get heat on the Guerrero's. And I was the end of the show, and we went out in the ring, and Luther and Mark Jindrack beat up Eddie, and I was beating up Chavo. And we got backstage at the guerrilla, where you enter the arena. When we went backstage, Eddie started yelling at me. He said, you were stiffing me. You were hit me hard, for real. I'm like, Eddie, I didn't touch you.

And he's like, yes, you did. He pushes me. I said, hey, you don't do that again. He pushed me again. I shoved them and he tried to double leg. I got him in a front of face lock and I choked them out. And so, damn. That was after.

That was that day? Yeah. Yeah. And the thing was, when we went to talk, I went over to him and said, hey, I want to apologize. He goes, I'm not ready to apologize. And I said, oh, really? We started going at it again. And so Eddie and I were like brothers.

We loved each other and we hated each other hard. And, but that was right after that occurred. And, but Eddie, that's when Eddie calmed down and said, listen, I know, let's just let my guns be bygones. And, you know, he's like, I love you, Kurt. You know, I do. And so that, that photo right there is right after that incident. Wow.

Yeah. What's your best memory of Eddie? Oh, God. Yes. So many memories of Eddie. Eddie. But my WrestleMania 20 match, one of my favorite matches of all time. Eddie came up with the finish, which was brilliant because you know Eddie lies, cheats and steals his way to victory, and he kind of cheated his way to victory with me where he had his shoe untied and I had the ankle

lock and the shoe came off and then I charged him and he rolled me up real quick and won the match. It was a brilliant finish because it worked with his character and it protected me. So it wasn't like I lost legitimately. And that's a, what Eddie was good at. He was good at protecting everybody and making sure everybody looks good when they're wrestling. Early, early on, you wrestled Owen Hart. What do you remember about that match? I remember that he called the whole match in the ring to me. He was, he was every, honestly, I never wrestled Brett. I've watched him wrestle. But I will tell you that Owen Hart is just as good as his brother. He was. So I know Brett's always,

had the crown of being the greatest wrestler in the world, but Owen was really good too. And he was a little bit of a prankster, though. You know, he pissed a lot of people off, but he was really good in the ring. I had incredible match with him. It was 10 minutes, and when we went backstage, everybody was like high-fiving us and saying it was great match. And I just started at that time. Was this before your debut?

Yeah. This was like a dark man. A bunch of the business. Yeah, it was a dark match. Three months in. Yeah, and I had a freaking incredible match, and it was because of him. He's just so good. And I wish you had the opportunity to wrestle Brett, but. I know.

It's a time in the way. I talk about all the time. It's never going to happen, though. It's too bad because I would have been so good. Yeah, I believe that too. I've always looked up to Brett as being one of the greatest of all time. just watching his technique in the ring and the way he carried himself. I always, when I sign in 98, late 98, that's when Brett, I believe, moved to WCW.

Yeah, because I missed them by few months. Montreal was 97. Yeah. Yeah. So it kind of sucked. I missed them by a year. But I would have loved to work with them. You mentioned Owen being a prankster.

You don't need to name names here. But what's the worst rib you've seen? I remember when, who was it? I think it was Bob Holly. Wait a minute. What happened? Owen, okay, he called Bob Holly or Val Valvinas. I can't remember which one it was.

But he called them in their hotel room. He was in the lobby. And he pretended to be a fan. He's like, listen. come down here, I'm going to beat the shit out of you. And they said, what do you look like? And he looked at a fan. He's like, ah, I have a red shirt on and jeans.

He's picking a fan. So Val or Bob, I can't remember which one it was, came down and charged right for the fan. And Owen had to like cut in and say, no, no, no, it was me. So that's pretty nasty. I mean, that could end up a disaster. Sure. Did anyone ever rib you really bad? Or did they know better?

You know what? I was, you know what? I came in with humility. I was humble. I got along with everybody and I was a team player. And, but Rikishi got me during a match. He had to go to the bathroom before the match and he didn't wipe his butt. And he did this sting face on me.

And man. Oh, man. Yeah, it stunk so bad too, man. Oh. I went backstage. He was laughing. I couldn't, I wouldn't even mad. Was this a TV match?

Yes, yes. Oh, man. Yeah, the boys can be cruel. Did you want to get him back? No, no, I wasn't like that. I didn't play pranks on anyone. You know what? I'm going to eat target if they want to, they don't know, rib me, you know.

But nobody else rib me very much. You know, Undertaker, like, you know, he just like, we'd be on a plane traveling overseas, he would throw pillows at me, you know, while I was sleeping and they tried to keep me up, but nobody really read me that much. But you feel like you also would have had a target on you because you got so much so quickly. Well, you know what? You're a target when you're, when you have a big title and you're an asshole. That makes you a target because that's when they even want to get you more.

You know, you have all their success and you're an asshole still. Well, this, we're going to stick it to you. So, you know, if you come in, you know, and you're humble and you're, you show that you're a team player and that you're willing to do whatever they want to do, even though you're an Olympic gold medalist and you know you're better than them, you don't act like. And because I was so humble, they, nobody really ever rib me. When were the conversation starting about you winning the world title? Because you won it 10 months in. Well, you beat the rock. Okay.

I didn't hear anything about it until I wrestled the rock. in Triple H in a triple threat match at Somerslam. And Triple H gave me the pedigree on a table. And the table collapsed before he gave me the pedigree. And I went down and I hit the concrete floor of my head. And I was out. I was out cold. And Triple H couldn't even wake me up.

And he said I was snoring. So the thing is, I was supposed to do that. And I was supposed to pretend I was hurt. I was going to go backstage. and then they were going to bring me back out for the rest of the match. Definitely brings you back out. Yeah, so that was all planned. Okay.

But I got hurt for real. Now they pulled me backstage. And when I went back out there, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't, I don't remember what I did. So they called the whole match to me, Triple H and Rock. So whoever I was wrestling and they're in the triple threat, they were calling the spots and tell me what was next. So I don't know how they did it, but the match looked really clean.

It looked great. And you can tell if you look and watch their mouths, you can tell they're talking a lot. You can also tell, especially when Stephanie's bringing you out of it, you don't know where you are. Yeah. Do you remember anything from that? No. I woke up in the hospital at three in the morning and I was like, what happened? They're like, you don't remember.

I said, no. I remember being at a pay-per-view. They said, well, you got a concussion. And I was like, whoa, man, I don't remember that. So was it because of that match? They went, Oh, Kirkland.

Vince was like, you know what? You impress me. You know, you went back out there and you got the job done. I like you. So the next month, he ends up giving me the title.

Wow. Rock at it. And, you know, it was like, and don't get me wrong. Like at this point in my career, I wasn't ready to carry the title.

I'll tell you why. I barely knew psychology. Okay, wrestling, you know, psychology is good guy versus bad guy. Good guy out wrestles the bad guy, the bad guy cheats gets a good guy down for heat. The good guy who makes a comeback, the bad guy you're cheats and wins, or the good guy overcomes the cheating and wins. So I was learning that, and I could barely structure a six-minute match when I first started. So for the first year of my career, my opponents had to structure the whole entire match for me,

and then call the whole entire match in the ring so I wouldn't forget a spot. And even 10 months in when I wrestled the rock, he had to do that for me too. So I was world champion. And, you know, after one year, two months later, I was such a good listener and a good follower that I then became a good leader. I started structuring matches and I started calling matches in the ring. So after two years in the business, I actually became the best in the business. It happened that quickly.

but if it wasn't for Vince McMahon pushing me and forced me to go out there out of my comfort zone. Like my first night on the air, he wanted me to cut a promo. I cut one promo in Memphis, and it was horrible. See, we didn't have OVW or NXT back then, so we had no way to prepare the wresters except Memphis, and they didn't like me down there. They barely did anything with me.

So it was tough, and I had to go out there and cut a promo, and the crazy thing is he said, listen, I'm going to tell you the promo, and you're going to go out, I'm going to tell you once, you're going to go out there and do it. So I was like, you're not going to write it down. I said, so I could memorize.

He said, no, I'm going to tell it to you, you're going to go out there and do it. So he starts telling me the promo. I'm listening, and after three minutes, I'm like, holy shit, this is a long promo. He keeps talking, four, five, six minutes. He gets done. And I said, Vince, I'm sorry,

but I didn't hear a word you said. Can you repeat that? He said, I'm going to tell you one more time. You go out there, you either sing, swim. Wow. And I went out there and I got 80% of it right. He said, I can work with this kid. This kid has ability. So he started having me cut promos every week and they're getting longer, longer. I started mastering promos. I was getting better. I was learning all the job. So by a year in the business, I was one of the best promo cutters in the business. And I shouldn't have been.

But if it wasn't for Vince, taking me out of my comfort zone and forcing me to learn quicker, it would have never happened. I think you really endeared yourself to face. when they saw that you were willing to not take yourself that seriously. Yeah, and you know what? The reason why I was able to do that is because Vince McMahon came to me, and he's a genius, he really is. He came to me and said, listen, you're an Olympic gold medalist. It doesn't matter.

You could, you could, you could, you could, you could, you could, um, you could pull your pants down and run around the ring. And they're still going to take you seriously when you wrestle a match. So we could do all this funny stuff. And still, when you get in the ring, they're going to say, Oh, the shit's on. Angu's in there. So he made it easier for me to go out there and be the idiot, you know, the dumbass, the funny guy.

And it worked extremely well. I actually enjoyed doing it. And Stone Cold and I had some of the best times. So it was a lot of fun, but it was because Vince basically said, listen, you're a badass. It's not going to matter what you say because when you go out there, you're going to have the best match of the night. But you went all in on it. And I think that that's why it was so good. Yeah, I mean, you know, you know what, though, that is a little part of me.

I'm a little gullible. I, you know, I, I'm kind of an idiot at times. You know, I, I, um, it's hard for me to, you know, I'm just, I just, I am a little goofy. And, uh, so I, I don't mind doing that, you know, I feel comfortable doing it. My favorite segment of yours, and this is a deep cut, it's when you were, pretending to interview the Rock. Do you remember this? Yeah, yeah. And I remember it word for word. Me and my buddy Greg will talk about it all the time, but Rock, thanks for joining us today. That's super. Yeah. Do you remember putting that together? Yes, yes. The crazy thing is

Brock wasn't in front of me. Of course, because it kept switching to a shot where his sideburns were longer or shorter. He's wearing different shirt. They wanted to make it look like I put it together. The Rock will tell you exactly what he thinks about Stone Cold Steve Austin and all. his little shenanigans. Sure, he's a piece of monkey crap and a gibrony. Oh, you remember that? Word for word. Whoa, that's a little harsh, isn't it, Rock? Sure, Rock. Drink up. That was a lot of fun. The thing is, I didn't know how good it was going to pan out because all they had me do is the lines. Sure. I was like, what are you going to do with this? And then I saw what they did. And it was like, oh, this is awesome. It's like when Weird Al would pretend to interview people

on MTV when it was Al TV. It's just so good, even to this day, 25 years later, I'm like, it's one of my favorite segments ever. I had a lot of fun. My first year, my rookie year was the funnest time in my career. Just, I went to TV excited. I was like, I can't wait to see what I'm going to do this week. Because every week I was doing something that was just funny or exciting.

And, you know, it wasn't until I broke my neck, I guess my third year in where it wasn't fun anymore. Then it was work. And then, you know, I kept injuring my neck and I was getting deeper and deeper into the painkillers. And then my life became dark. And so those first couple years were so important to me

and so exciting and fun because I knew that the rest of the years were, you know, a trial. a test, you know, and I just, you know, I don't remember a lot of those years. And it's probably because I just blocked them out of my mind. And that's why I can remember so vividly what I did in my first two or three years. If you were in a dark time then, what helped you to get out of it? Well, I didn't get out of that dark time until 2012. And what happened as I got arrested my fourth the UI. And I called my wife from jail and she said, listen, I can't do this anymore. Either go to

rehab or I'm taking the kids and I'm leaving. And it wasn't an easy decision. I mean, I'm not going to lie you. I love my addiction. It was my baby. And I mean, I was so organized with my addiction. I had 12 different pharmacies give me 12 different prescriptions. And I had to write it down in a notepad and make sure I didn't go to the wrong pharmacy because then you get in trouble. And then I was ordering 500 illegally online every month. And so how many a day was it? 65 a day. Extra strength I can.

And were you actually counting them or were you just grabbing a fistful? No, I was grabbing them, but approximately 2,200 pills a month because that's what I was getting. And so it was a toll. But, you know, my addiction is. what was, you know, I had to make sure I had painkillers. So it was my first priority every day is what do I have to do to get my pain killers to make sure I have enough. And so that overtook my life.

And my wife said, listen, you either go to rehab or I'm taking the kids and I'm leaving. And I love my addiction, but I knew I love my kids more. So I went to rehab. And I've been cleaning sober for about 14 years now. Congratulations. Thank you. It's a lot of people when they go down, that path of painkillers, it turns into heroin at some point.

You know what? It might have with me. But, you know, in 2012, heroin was out there. But, you know, for the wrestling community, the safe bet was getting painkillers. What have you done to repair your reputation? Like you said you wanted to go back to WWE in 2016. Yeah, they didn't want me. Because of your reputation.

But look at you now. Nobody thinks about current angle in that light anymore. Well, I stay clean for 14 years, you know. Time always helps. You know, when you're not in trouble and you're out of the, you know, the eye of, you know, going against the law and you show that you got your shit together, people start to forget it. Yeah. You know, the only time they remember is when they say, hey, remember perc angle. So, you know, that's one of the things that, you know, I still have to deal.

with, but I understand it, you know, for the fans, it's more of a term of endearment. You know, how great was Perk angle? He was awesome. You know, so I know they're not saying it to try to hurt my feelings. I mean, even though I... But does it hurt your feelings? Yeah. Yeah.

But I know they don't mean it. Yeah. And for that, I'm, you know, I'm okay with, you know, if they say it. I don't want them to say it to my face, but, you know, it is what it is. Does it hurt your feelings because it reminds you of a... a time you don't want to remember. It's a time where I was in a dark situation in my life. And that is the part I don't want to remember. All the trouble I got into, you know, the divorce I had and, you know, and just a lot of things that were going on in my life that I don't want to remember

anymore. If you were so competitive for so much of your life with leading up to the Olympics, everything before that too, but leading up to that and then WWE and TNA and then back to WWE, what gets the competitive juices flowing now? Oh gosh. I don't know because do you and your kids compete with something? You know what? I don't really compete anymore. I don't play video games. What I do now is I'm a husband and a father first. Maybe you're competing against all the other fathers to be the best dad. You're right. You're right.

I could say that because we do have our kids in sports. I have a daughter that wrestles. I have another daughter that does gymnastics and I have a daughter that's a swimmer. And they're all really good. But I'm there for them. So that's the outlet now? Yeah, that's the outlet. That's what I focus on.

And I focus on my wife, too, because she did so much for me in my life. She never left me high and dry. She actually, when I retire from pro wrestling, I got depressed. I got really depressed because it was like, what am I going to do now? You know, my wife's like, open your eyes. You have a family. And I still didn't get it for a while. You know, it's like, well, you know, what am I going to do now?

And how is my legacy going to pan out when, you know, now I'm just over to hill old man, you know, and she's like, you don't understand. Your legacy is intact. What you did in the Olympics and what you did in pro wrestling, nobody can ever take that away from you. People are going to remember you as one of the greatest of all time in both amateur and pro wrestling. So you built a legacy that no one can ever take away from you. And when I started to understand that and I was like, you know what? I want my legacy not just to be a great athlete and a great pro wrestler,

but I don't want my legacy to be a great man. And the way you do that is what you do with your wife and your kids and your family. Is it because your identity was so tied to wrestling for so long? Yes. When you retire, it's like, what am I now? Yeah, I didn't have an identity. And it was like, what am I going to do now? And I don't have a purpose.

And my wife, you know, opened my eyes and said, you do have a purpose. It's really important. Yeah. Look, Kurt, it's always so great to be able to catch up with you and sit down with you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for inviting us to Pittsburgh to make this happen. I'll wrap this up with a question I ask everybody at the end. I think you answered that's the last time you were on.

But gratitude's so important to me in my life. And I wake up every day, say out loud three things I'm grateful for. My wife and I do it before we go to bed every night. What are three things in your life you're grateful for right now? I'll say this right off the top of my head. I'm grateful for God being there for me. I'm grateful for being a father and a husband. And I'm grateful for my legacy.

And I know that, you know, if I died today, that I did everything I could to make the life that I wanted. And there's nobody that can take that away from it. You are one of the absolute greatest of all time, both in the ring and outside of the ring. Hell of a guy as well. Thanks, Chris. So are you.

Thank you, sir. Well, there we go. Big thank you to Kurt for welcoming us to Pittsburgh for this one. And thank you for listening and being with us all the way until the end here. Name a bad Kurt angle match. I'll wait. Exactly. There's no such thing as a bad Kurt angle match.

And I just appreciate how honesty is about his career and his legacy and him saying that he wished he'd retired 10 years earlier. But, I mean, if you think about it, during those 10 years, he still had such amazing matches. But I get it. We're often most critical about ourselves, right? I also appreciate how opening is about his addiction of painkillers and that period of his life in TNA. And I know that his story of sobriety is really going to speak to someone who's going through that themselves or has been there and they know what it's like and they know the struggles associated with that. So I just appreciate that. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening and tag us. He's at real Kurt Engel. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. Tickets are on sale now for Insight Live in Indianapolis, Toronto, and Las Vegas, grab them at CVVTix.com. That's CVVTIX.com.

I'll leave you with this quote from Confucius. It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop. Be great and be grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got former WWE superstar Baron joining us on Thursday. We'll see you right. Back here for that one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987.

I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.