Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Lance Storm On Jim Cornette, First Match Ever vs. Chris Jericho, Team Canada, ECW

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Lance Storm (@lancestorm) is a professional wrestler known for his time in ECW, WCW and WWE. He joins Chris Van Vliet from his home in Calgary, Alberta, Canada to talk about his current job as a producer for Impact Wrestling, the fact that he and CVV went to the same college Wilfrid Laurier University, moving to Calgary for pro wrestling training, having his first match against Chris Jericho, being tag team partners with Justin Credible in ECW, signing with WCW, forming Team Canada, meeting Bret Hart for the first time, joining WWE, The Alliance angle, how he came up with his catchphrase "If I can be serious for a minute", The Un-Americans, his thoughts on 5-star match ratings and much more! Sponsors: 👉 To get 15% off go to http://mudwtr.com/cvv to support the show and use the code CVV15 👉 Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com 👉 MANSCAPED - Get 20% off and free worldwide shipping with the code CVV at manscaped.com  👉 Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF Quote I'm thinking about: Happiness comes from WHAT we do. Fulfillment comes from WHY we do it. - Simon Sinek For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bleas! Ah, yes, my friends, welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Vleet. So good to see you here. And thank you for making us one of the top wrestling podcasts in the world by coming back each and every episode. And if by chance this is your first episode, first of all,

thank you, welcome. I hope you enjoy this enough to want to go back through the back catalog and listen to some other conversations that we've had. interviews with people like The Undertaker, Cody Rhodes, Lita, L.A. Knight, yeah, Tony Kahn, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, and about, I think, 500 others. This is episode number 509 here. And it's with Lance Storm. I say it at the start of this interview, but this is someone I've wanted to talk to probably longer than anybody else in the wrestling industry. And that's because Lance and I both went to the same college. Not at the same time, but we both went to Wilford-Loreau

University in Waterloo, Ontario. That's where I studied communication studies. It's, I guess, partly the reason that I'm doing what I'm doing now, but it was good to be able to talk to Lance about, like, that thing that we had in common that I feel like it's so rare. I don't know any other, like, certainly not wrestlers, that went to Lurier. So it was cool to be able to talk to him about that, and for that to be like the common grounds that we have here. He also has just such a unique perspective because he was in ECW, WCW and WWE all within like a two year stretch. So he saw it all from the good to the bad to everything in between.

And of course, yes, we talk about his catchphrase, if I could be serious for a minute and how it wasn't even really a catchphrase when it first happened. it just kind of came up, came together by accident here. We talk about those picture perfect super kicks. And of course, the Storm Wrestling Academy and all the big names that have come out of there. He is currently working backstage as a producer in Impact Wrestling. And after you listen to this conversation, you're going to be like, man, that is the perfect place for him to be.

And I feel like no disrespect to Impact Wrestling, but they're lucky to have him and the wrestling mind that he possesses. If you enjoy this, please take a screenshot and tag us so we can share it out. He is at Lance Storm on Twitter. At Storm Wrestling Academy on Instagram, I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Lance Storm. Lance, such a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much. No, no problem.

My pleasure. I think that you're the one wrestler that I've wanted to talk to for the longest, you know, for the longest time, and now we're finally making this happen. because we both went to Wilford Laurier University in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. Yeah, I was only there for a year and a half, but that is my university from way back when. Yeah, I played volleyball there. You played volleyball at Laurier. Wow.

Yes. For people that may have never been to Canada or maybe don't know what we're talking about, the $5 bill has Wilford Laurier on it, and this is what our university was named after. I didn't know he was on the five. What do you mean? You don't really? Not something I was aware of, no. Maybe back then I was, but I've been hitting the head a lot.

Did you live in residence? I did, my first year. Do you remember which one? I remember physically, like I could go there and tell you where it was, but I don't remember what it was called. So I stayed in Willison. I don't know if maybe you were in Willison Hall. Sounds familiar. Do you remember any other names? There was Mac.

And Little House was the all guys one. Mac, I don't know, MacArthur, I don't know. Willis and seems to be the one I would think. I was top floor. If memory serves, it was a wing to the right and a wing to the left, perhaps. I was to the right. I feel like that might have been all of them. I don't know.

I don't know. I have a vision of, and again, it was a very, small circle of where I went. Sure. You know, there was the athletic complex, my residence, and then again, a couple of buildings for classes, and that was it. It looks like you're an athletic complex right now. Yes, my generic gym green screen.

This is like, you're like the rock with the Iron Paradise, you know, this is where you live. I just need a higher angle of my camera so I can look up more. It looks real. It kind of looks like you're in the corner of your own beautiful personal gym. Well, most people that do these, they have the camera that can treat any room like a green screen, but it's really fuzzy and crappy around them. I actually have a green screen on my wall so that it's green behind me. So it turns up a lot better. So was Lurier only for a year and a half because then pro wrestling became the main focus?

Yeah. I was in their advanced business program playing volleyball for a coach I didn't care for. and by my second year, I wasn't enjoying myself. And it was, my grades were getting worse. I was unhappy, and it was my roommate at the time, Bruce McGregor from Ottawa. I'd love to touch base with him if anybody knows where he is. He was the one that pulled me aside and said, do you think maybe your grades are getting worse because you're trying to force yourself

to make the decision you want to anyway? And I went, you know what? I think you're right. and I went to the administration office, whatever it was, and talked to them about it. They said, if you leave now, your grades are high enough, you're always welcome back. If you stay on this trajectory to direct, I can't even talk today. The path you're on now will throw you out in less than a year. I'm like, I will see you later.

And I withdrew and started looking for a wrestling school. So, and how did you find a wrestling school in, what would that have been 19, 90? It would have been 89. The end of 89 that I started looking. My stepdad at the time started making calls and investigating. He talked to

the power plant in Atlanta. He actually got put through to Jack Tunney at WWF offices in Toronto and spoke to him. And I found the heart camp in a wrestling magazine.

But yeah, Jack Tunney told him that WWF finds all of their talent through amateur wrestling. And I told my stepdad that that was a lie. So he called him back to call him on his lie. Wow. And Jack Tunney told him, sir, to be perfectly honest, I just assumed not bother with you and hung up. Wow. Yes.

I think I told this story once. But when my stepdad told me that story, because I was always a WCW fan more than a WWF fan. My secret goal in life was to someday be successful enough that I had the chance to go to WCW or WWF. And I was going to tell WWF, thank you, sir, but I just assumed not bother and go to WCW. The thing that I love about this story, and what's so interesting, is you wanted it so bad that you were going to find a wrestling school no matter what. And there's so many people, right now that want to be pro wrestlers, they say it's their dream to be a pro wrestler. You can literally get on your phone and find the nearest wrestling school or the best wrestling

school in your area and they still don't do anything about it. There is. Although with that, and this is where I think I differ from a lot of people, I gave myself a five-year window. Like I told myself that if I'm not making progress where it seems like this is a viable career, I'm going to go back to university. I'm not going to be just some guy chasing some silly dream. I think I might enjoy this job. I think I can make a living at it. Let's see if I have an aptitude for it. And it was funny. A friend of mine's dad, Steve Benning, if he ever happens to listen to

this, everyone I knew was supportive. Everybody was like, yeah, go for it, go for it. And he was the only one. he pulled me aside and just said, whatever you do, just don't become a bum. And it meant a lot to me. It's like, hey, chase your dream, but don't chase it down a garbage dump. You can't always, you know, maybe this isn't as inspirational as it should be, but you can't always succeed at your dreams. You have to be realistic. So I set the goal that if I wasn't making progress, if it didn't seem like I had a real chance

of success at this, I was going to go back to school. school and I was making my living in three. Wow. I did the exact opposite of you. So I went, I started training as a pro wrestler between my second and third year of university. I was in Toronto. And then it was summertime. So then when school came back around that September, I was at like a fork in the road. And I'm like, all right, do I focus on wrestling school and giving my all to that? Or do I focus on school school and giving my all to that? And I made the opposite decision and went, I'm going to go back to school school, because wrestling will always be there. I can get my toe into that later on in life.

What year was this? 2002. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's 2003. 2003. And I was going to the squared circle in Toronto. I'm sure you're familiar with it. Okay, yep.

But yeah, that's a tough time because that's basically just WWF, TNA had just started, but it was like, seemed like a lot, and Indies hadn't exploded and taken off yet either. So I could see it being a daunting business of there's WWF and no steps in between. Yeah, and the internet wasn't nearly what it is now. So like, how are you going to make a name for yourself when YouTube doesn't even exist, when social media is not even a thing? Tell me about it. I broke in 1990.

Well, and that's the thing, right? You broke into this, like when very few Canadians were breaking in. You were really a pioneer during that time. Well, there would have been those who, because Stampede just ended before I broke in, so there still would have been Canadians getting in that way. And Stampede was just alive still. It was still on TSN playing national in Canada

when I signed up for the Hart Brothers Pro Wrestling camp. Do you remember your first thought? And it shut down like a month after I sent my money in and signed up. And I was just like, oh, no, there's no more wrestling. But the guy who was running the heart camp for Keith said that, no, a new promotion is starting up. It'll be bigger and better. And I'm like, yeah, sure it will be. But it did, in fact, CNWA, I believe the name was, did fill the TSN time slot.

So I saw, okay, there is a promotion. So I figured it's like, well, I can at least get work when I get out there. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember the first time that you met Chris Jericho and what your impressions were of him when you met him? Yeah, I do. We all stayed at a hotel, well, there was two people from Calgary who lived in Calgary, but we all stayed in a hotel in Okotokes, Alberta, which is basically a bedroom community now. And it was this crappy hotel, and I got picked up at the airport and taken to this hotel. And every person I see when I get there is skinny little kids.

kid, big fat guy. Like, no one looked like an athlete at all. And I had no, again, you didn't have internet. So you didn't know that that's what all wrestling schools look like. Right. I was, you know, and I train. I was in good shape. It's like, I'm expecting to show up at like an NFL camp, right?

Where I'm like, praying to God, I'm in good enough shape to hang. Yeah. And then I see this. And because my stepdad had looked into the power plant and looked into the Hart brothers, I chose Hart Brothers because Stampede had a rep for smaller guys and staying in Canada made it easier. But I had went to the end of the hallway. There was a fire escape. And I'm standing on the fire escape.

And in my mind, I'm thinking, I've made a huge mistake. This place is a joke. So I'm in my mind going, can I change my flight? Can I, you know, I'll call my stepdad. I'll see if he can get me into the power plant. I need to get the hell out of here. And then this green beat up looking 76 Valare pulls into the park. parking lot and out jumps Chris Jericho.

And I see a kid that clearly goes to the gym that clearly looks like an athlete. And I'm like running down the fire escape to meet this person because maybe there's, if there's someone else here that has a hope in hell, then maybe I didn't make a mistake. So I ran down and introduced myself to Chris and helped him carry his trunk of clothes and stuff out of the trunk of his car and helped him move in. And it's like if not foreseeing him, I probably would have been on a plane back home the next day. Wow. I'm just so fascinated in life by these moments that change your life, you know, for better or for worse.

Like, could you imagine? Chris Jericho could have gone to wrestling school a year before or a year later in this meeting never would have happened. Yeah. And Chris and I have talked about it because unless we both ended up going to a different school. But assuming I stayed and he wasn't there or he stayed and I wasn't there, There was quite literally no one else to work with. Like, we would have been doomed because we did everything with each other and trained. Like, we were at the top of the class and it was a big gap to who was next.

And without each other, it's like we would have, I don't know what we would have done. I can't imagine we would have progressed anywhere near where we were. So if you're born in Ontario, you're going to college, university, city in Ontario. Is that what brought you out west to Alberta, was wrestling? Yes. Yes. I packed everything that I needed that I owned in a large duffel bag and got on the first commercial flight I'd ever taken and flew to Calgary and got picked up at the airport by Ed Langley and Brad Young. Ed was the guy that ran the camp for Keith. And Brad was a grad from a previous year that did all the instructing. That was sort of the gimmick to the Hart Brothers camp.

Ed ran it. Keith took the money and a graduate from a previous year taught the class. Wow. I taught it in 91 and 92 after graduating in 90. Wow. And you've lived in Calgary ever since? I lived in Tennessee for 10 months during my Smoky Mountain run. And I lived in Cape Coral, Florida for a year during my ECW tenure. But other than that, yeah, it's been Calgary.

Wow. It's amazing. And also, Chris Jericho is still wrestling now 30 plus years later. Yes, that's sort of the running joke between us because we've, over the years have made a pack that, because our very first match was against each other. We did like a 10 or a 15 minute draw. I don't remember which in Pinocke, Alberta out here. And I've always contended that it would be cool, especially because we know each other still, to do our last match. with each other too and have us both bookend our careers. And on one of the Talk is Jericho podcast, as well as recently just personally, we've sort of, you know, what's the word, reaffirmed the pact to do it. But I keep joking with him. It's like, dude, you have to retire at some point or I'm not going to be able to do it. You know, you've got to retire inside the next

five or ten years, dude, or I'm not going to be, I don't want to do it at 75. Yeah, how much longer could Jericho go? The man's indestructible. Yeah. He really is. Like, he's had so few serious injuries, and he just seems to keep on going. Like, he had the broken arm in 94 in Smoky Mountain, which never hurt.

Like, he was never in pain ever from it and had to take some time off because they had surgery, but it still wasn't hurt. And again, he did talk about that he did his first, I think it was his first hiatus from WGB. his back was bothering him. And it was bad, but DDP yoga fixed him up and he's never had a problem with it since. I believe he did tear an ACL way back, but was told by doctors, you're one of the few people that still has a fairly stable knee and just never had anything done about it. And he wears a neoprene on his knee and is fine. The dude's inestructible.

It's insane. And it's not like he's taking it easy. Like he's still a rock star on tour. he's still running the Jericho cruise. He still has the podcast, one of the top wrestling podcasts in the world. And he's wrestling all the time with AEW. Oh, it is.

I don't remember when it was, but it was a while back. He was in like a six man with either inner circle or his appreciation society. It was like a six man. Yeah. And it's like, he's the workhorse out there doing all the work. And I remember texting and go,

dude, you realize you're the big name now. You don't have to do that. He's like, that's just me, man. You know. And I'm like, yeah. I know, I'm the same way, but it's who he is. Wow. So my first introduction to you, I was obviously aware of ECW, but as you know, it wasn't airing in Canada until like, I think was 99 when it was on the new TNN.

And I saw you for the first time and I went, Lance Storm, that's my guy. But I also was thrown off because I'm like, you and Just Incredible seemed like polar opposites, but you worked so well together. And I'm just curious, what was, what did Paul Heyman see in you guys to make you a tag team? It wasn't Paul. The, I mentioned earlier that I had taught the heart camp in 91 and 92. Well, Just Incredible was one of my students in 1992. Wow. So I trained and taught PJ how to work.

So when I got to ECW and he got there, we kept bugging Paul. Can we have a match? Can we have a match? because we wanted to work with each other. We had wrestled once, you know, one of his early matches, his last one before he left Calgary to move back to the States, we had wrestled once, but we wanted to work. So after hounding Paul forever, we were both heels.

So eventually there was a three-way dance with Dreamer, where he put us both together with Dreamer. And since we were heels working Tommy, we kind of teamed up and beat him up a little bit. And I think Paul saw it then that we could go together. And you mentioned we were polar opposites. I think that's why we worked in that ECW had two real elements. Well, three, if you count the crazy women in the catfights.

But from a men's wrestling standpoint, there was the hardcore stuff. You know, the balls Mahoney, the sandmans, the samos, the just incredibles. He's got the stick. He's got the jeans. And he's not your traditional wrestling. But ECW also had the Shane Douglas's, the Dean Melankos, the Chris Candidos, the, I'd like to say the Lance Storms, the wrestlers that did, you know, the Dean and Eddie's and all the wrestling stuff. So I was the professional wrestler side of ECW and Justin was the hardcore side of ECW. So together we covered those bases and then you moved Don Marie into the mix and we really covered all three elements of ECW pro wrestling.

wrestling, and I think that's why we worked. I think that you guys were instrumental in making Calgary, Alberta, Canada, like something that wrestling fans would know. I don't think any Americans would ever have any idea what Calgary even was, let alone where it was on a map. I laugh because that does seem to be so many people now say it that way as the way you're supposed to say it. And I will forever hear from people where it's in a, they're flying in from somewhere.

And it's like, we're about to a land in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. And they're like, they say it just like Lance does. And it just became my gimmick, if you will. And it was just naturally the way I said it. But the dramatic pause became a thing. And yeah, it just sort of stood there. And that too was Paul wanted me basically doing the Brett Hart deal that Brett was doing in WWF before that.

Canada versus the U.S. And I didn't want to do the exact same thing as Canada versus the U.S. So I decided to just pick the city. I'm from here. It's the wrestling capital of the world. I'm just pro-Cowgli. This isn't a nationality thing. I'm not out here waving a flag.

I just think my hometown's better than every other place. It's the grassroots of pro wrestling. And because of that, I'm better than everyone. And just to make it my own and not have Paul realize I'm not doing what I'm told, I went just with Calgary. It's just such an interesting thing to like repeat the name of your hometown in every promo that you cut.

I don't know if that had ever been done before at that point. I have no idea. Like people, you know, would do it as a cheap pop when they're in that town. Sure. And, you know, I think, you know, punk has certainly made Chicago his thing. but it's not like he name drops it everywhere he goes.

And there's an interesting thing that happens in wrestling. And as a Canadian myself, I was always hyper aware of this. But like Canadians were just instant heels. It was like, and you didn't even have to say like, we think we're better than you because we're from Canada and you're from the stinky US.

It's just like, no, we're from Canada. That's all you'd have to say. And it was immediately, boo. And I just never understood it. Well, I think, and only in the U.S., and that's something that, you know, WWF, WW, whichever you want to use, never understood. But it's all about America is always America's the greatest place in the world. And, you know, if you've actually been anywhere else, it's not necessarily the truth. And I think any foreign person who touts their country as being good gets heat in the U.S.

And I say how WVF doesn't realize it. I guess I should just use WV and get used to it. But that, like, they assumed the un-Americans would be heels everywhere. Yeah. And I'm like, no, we're going to be baby faces everywhere, but the U.S. You don't get this. And they didn't understand that my pro-Calgary thing would be a baby face in other parts of Canada. They're like, well, you're not from New Brunswick.

Why would they like you here? It's like Canada is the world's biggest small town. It's like if you're a Canadian that made it on the international scene, you're our hometown boy. It doesn't matter if you're from Victoria, you know, Moose Jaw, New Brunswick, Ottawa. If you're a Canadian that made it internationally, you're our hometown boy. You just are. We'll buy you a Tim's.

That's the way it goes. There's this funny thing. I live in Los Angeles now, so there's this funny thing when you run into another actor or person that's from Canada. You're like, oh, one of us. And then you start listing off. Like, also, Ryan Reynolds and Nickelback and Justin Bieber and Alanis Morset and Alex Trebek and you just keep listing him off.

You're like, one of us, one of us. It just happens to be a thing. And it's incredible of how many of us there are. Absolutely. And in pro wrestling, too. Like, I think there's so many wrestlers that have, you know, are from Canada and maybe don't tout it as much. Like, it's not part of their gimmick.

But you can look back and go, Oh, yeah, Valvinus. Wow, that's a Canadian. Yep. I think Evil Uno of the Dark Order is Canadian. I think Daddy Magic is too. I could be wrong about that, but there's lots of them. Although there was that interesting thing that happened after 9-11,

where all of the baby-face pro wrestlers in WWE were no longer from Edmonton, Alberta, like Chris Benoit, or Winnipeg, Manitoba, like Chris Jericho. it was now residing in Tampa, Florida. Well, that was primarily, again, I will say my fault, but that, well, it started when the un-Americans became a thing, which would have been 2002. Actually, you know a little bit before that, because we were already the un-Americans at the anniversary of 9-11. So it was just not long after 9-11 that we were doing the un-Americans.

And the office figured that the wrestling fans were too dumb to tell the difference. difference between Test Christian and Lance Storm, who are Canadians and hate the U.S., and Chris Jericho and Edge, who are Canadians, that don't hate America. So they actually, Edge was the only one I don't think they changed, but Jericho was using his birthplace of Manhasset, New York, and Benoit was from Atlanta, and they were, just Vince didn't think people could tell the difference and thought that, well, all Canadians will be heels now because test Christian and

Lamp Storm are evil people from Canada. We jump it all around here a little bit. I want to get back to ECW for a minute. I think you ever had any run there or any storyline that was leading towards you becoming the world champion in ECW? I don't think there ever was because my leaving happened so abruptly

that we were, you know, Paul had his top guys contended in who they were. And it really wasn't until Mike Awesome Jump Ship, that there was a bit of a panic of, oh, crap, what do we do now? But by that time, he didn't have me locked up secure timeline wise. I was World Tag Champs at the time with PJ. So it was really a case of it was never a time. You know, we were being used and being functional where we were, well, he had bigger plans already for his world title. And then by the time he had to start looking for, okay, Taz is gone,

Awesome's gone, where do I put my world title? He was trying to secure everyone with their contracts, and I wasn't as secure as others. And there was that point, and oddly enough, it was, God, was it the same night? I think it was. We did, I got hurt. Thankfully, it just ended up being a stinger. but I took a Kendo stick shot to C1 and just had a little bit of tingling in my fingers on a run-in.

It was before the match. We were supposed to a six-man in the main. So I ended up getting backboarded and was going to be taken to the hospital. And I believe that was the night he had PJ throw down the world tag team titles and I think won the world title. But it was all around the same time frame.

and I think it was the case of he realized I'm probably gone soon. Having Justin turn heel and throw the belts down and ditch me, so to speak, took care of that thing. And then with PJ being more locked up and Paul figured he would stay, he went with Justin. And that's why my last match was challenging Justin for the title and leaving. Yeah. because I wasn't locked into ECW because I knew they had financial issues. If you want to get a better night's sleep and change your bedding less often, let me put you on to Miracle Maid's bed sheets.

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I feel like they ruined Mike Awesome there. They did, yes. What the heck was that gimmick? Which one? Oh, I was referring to that that 70s guy. Oh, because the, the fat chick thriller was not all that in a bag of chips either. But I assume because when he jumped,

he was the career killer and started, you know, I think he, you know, attacked Kevin Nash and was like in the mix. And he was immediately downgraded his career killer and fat chick thriller. And I assumed it was just a political move by people with power, whether, and that's one thing that everyone booking WCW to a certain extent does have, I don't know if a get out of jail free card is right, but the built-in excuse of too many people had creative control, you are limited to what you can do. You know, you can have a good idea.

If three people on top go, no, I don't have to do that. It's in my contract. It's like, what do you do? Yeah. But, you know, he was quickly sabotaged to the fat chick thrill. and then what really annoyed me was the New Blood Rising show, where it was Mike and I in the pay-per-view where Brett come out. They could have really cemented me as a top guy, especially in Canada,

but they did the absurd finish where Mike beat me like six times in the match and then I squeak it out on a ridiculous technicality. And they made him that 70s guy a week and a half later. And I'm like, if you knew you were going to make him a comedy joke, in a week. Why didn't I just beat him clean? And, you know, and I've, both Mike and I were so annoyed when they pitched the finish to us because we just wanted to have a good match.

We were buddies. We'd worked every place. We've always had good chemistry. And it's like, you know, I've thought about it afterwards. It's like with where he was going, if they knew, they may have decided three days later that they were going to make him that 70s guy. But had I put him in the half crab at some point for a good near fall, he has seen. I eventually put him in the sharpshooter and win.

Tap them clean in the middle of the ring. Then when you hit Brett's music, you can have the announcers put over. It's like Lance stole Brett's move. Is Brett coming out with, you know, hold on kid, gimmick infringement, brother? And he gets in the ring.

We have that moment where he look at each other. We hug and Mark Madden hits the line. I say, well, who do you think taught him the hold? He's from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. And I get Brett's endorsement, and I now use the sharpshooter. I'd have been a god in Canada from a wrestling standpoint. I was pretty over as it was in Canada with three belts with flags on them.

But it would have been such a stronger thing to do. And it wouldn't have changed Mike's projection moving forward because he's that 70s guy in a week in the Lava Lamp Lounge in a stupid leisure suit. Yeah. Do you remember the first time that you met Brett Hart? It was New Blood Rising. I was that night. That was that night. Yeah.

And ironically, I don't know if that's ironic, but it was funny in that he pulled me aside before the match. And he said, you know, I don't know how to put this. I just want to be nice. But it's like, I just hope you realize there's a good chance the crowd could turn on you tonight with this finish. And I said to him, I said, well, I think that's why you're here. And he looked at me. I'm like, I think they figure no matter how bad they crap. on me in this booking, if you come out and raise my hand in the end, all will be forgiven.

And he's like, you're probably right. But thankfully, the fans didn't turn on me. But, you know, I got pinned for a three count and restarted it. I tapped out and they restarted it. I got pinned for a five count. They restarted it. And then Jacques Rougeau knocks him out with brass knucks. And I win because he helps me to my feet.

It's like, you could not have booked me weaker. in a city that I went in as a bloody hero. Yeah. And if it was anything other than a Canadian in Canada, they would have turned on me. Yeah. I mean, when you think of Calgary, Alberta, Canada, I think there's two wrestlers that immediately pop into your head, and it's Brett Hart and it's Lance Storm. Yeah, and weirdly enough, I'm amazed that that is the case.

Because, again, when I was a fan and broke in, Brett Hart, Calgary, the hearts, the hearts, the hearts, Calgary, Calgary, Calgary. The fact that people remember me when they say the city is a real accomplishment, a point of pride of mind that I actually managed to squeeze myself into the crowded wrestling history of Calgary, Alberta, Canada. But look, this is the great thing about wrestling is if you say something enough, if you repeat it enough, that's the thing that wrestling fans will always remember. It really is. It's, well, that's Vince McMahon, right? You're branded enough. If you tell people the name long enough, people will sink into it, yeah.

Although I would imagine my hometown in Ontario probably feels left out. But along those same lines like Landstorm and the word serious, you know, they're linked together for the rest of your life too. Yes. And thankfully, there's still a few people. Nigel McGuinness, uh, manages. just to keep me alive. There was a collision. I think it was MJF,

put someone in a half crab. And he actually said, the champ is getting serious for a minute and put over that the hold was mine. And that's another thing that I'm really surprised and pleased about

in that I remember when I broke in, I was a huge Bobby Eaton fan. And I thought it was really cool that if anyone ever did a leg drop off the top rope, they thought of Bobby Eaton. and I thought it'd be really cool if there was a wrestling move that if anyone in the world ever did it, wrestling fans thought of you. And as a young former volleyball player that's jumping and flipping and trying to get over with crazy stupid moves,

I never in a million years thought a half Boston crab would be it. But it seems that whenever anyone does a half Boston crab, especially if they do the back roll into it, everyone thinks of me. So that's another thing that's just insane. And I've talked to Jericho about it. It's like when we broke in in Calgary, we're all trying to do springboards and flips and all these moves. And it's like,

who would have thought both of us ended up with a Boston crab finisher? But look, it's the move that every little kid can put on their little brother. I'm not sure that's a good thing. How does, if I could be serious for a minute, become a catchphrase? I think like many, in that it was just one line in one promo

that when I said it, everyone just sort of thought it fit. I don't remember who wrote it. But because in WCW, I would always be given the page of the booking sheet with what I was doing. And they would have a promo written out with what you're supposed to say.

I would always rewrite it into my own words because I think the very first promo I did in WCW, I did it verbatim. And it wasn't in my words and I botched a couple of the words because it just the sentences were the wrong length. It wasn't how I spoke. So I always rewrote my promos. I'd keep much of it the same, but I would rewrite them my own way. But I do remember the, but if I can be serious for a moment, that was written in there because it was when I won the U.S. title. I'm a heel, but I start putting over all the other.

great U.S. champions. And then I do that, but if I can be serious for a minute, I deserve much better. And then I denounce the U.S. title and, you know, name it the Canadian title. And when I came back, one of the writers or the agent, I don't recall who it was, someone just went, you have to say that in every promo now. It's like it just, it's you. I'm like, okay. And then I said it in virtually every promo for the rest of my career.

And it wasn't, you, you did it. You did the point with two fingers. I'm trying to, there's my camera. There it is. I didn't know I did that until they did the Bill DeMott and the Misfits in Action did the spoof promo where they dressed up like us, which is a very Russo trait. It was done really well with either DX or the nation or whoever it was the first time. And then everybody did it whether it was any good or not. but they did that and Bill DeMott did the promo.

And when he pointed at the camera with two fingers, I'm like, why is he pointing with two fingers? And when he came back, I even asked him, I'm like, that looks ridiculous. Why did you do that? He's like, that's what you do. I'm like, really? Did they ever at any point say, you have a Canadian accent and we need you to have less of a Canadian accent? No. No one has ever said that or accused me of having a Canadian accent.

accent. I suppose I do to an extent, but... I mean, it plays into your character as well, right? Well, it's who I am. So, but yeah, the only time I've ever had anyone tell me to talk differently was, you know, that first year

or so in WWF where they were telling me to cut monotonous, flat, monotone promos. They told, and it was just their take on, if I can be serious, for a minute was,

this man shows no emotion. And they told me outright, it was Brian Goertz that said, you know, our vision for you is Sam the Eagle from the Muppets. Great. So they would make me do backstage segments and promos. Like,

I'd have to do three or four takes and tell, you know, where they'd tell me, no, flatter, flatter, flatter, okay. And then after about three months, Jericho pulls me aside.

And he says, just so you know, they bury you in production meetings for having flat robotic promos. I'm like, oh, great, because they're making me do them that way. And then throwing me under the bus. And I guess whoever was telling me to make them flatter, didn't want to jump up and go, oh, sorry, I was making them do that and just let me get buried in production meetings for being a flat promo. Wow. And I think there's a lot of people that still, to this day, think that you are boring and monotonous,

and you speak like that all the time. Well, like we said earlier, you tell people something long enough, that is a fact. And the boring angle that we did for about a year, maybe less, yeah, that people have just decided that that's who I am. And it's like, well, if you go back and watch any other part of my career, I had emotion and personality. And so be it. you had an interesting stretch of your career there where you worked for ECW, WCW and WWE, all within, I believe it was less than two years. So if you're to look back at this, what's kind of the main memory or like what's what

of like the way that things are in each company, let's backstage ECW, WCW and WWE, what's the main like idea that sticks out for all three of those? I think the biggest thing from a career standpoint, point for me. Like ECW is where I found myself as a performer. Like before ECW, I was Lance Evers, really good athlete professional wrestler

using a pseudonym. In ECW, I found who Lance Storm was and became an actual living, breathing pro wrestler, where there was a definite feel and identity of his own. own personality outside of Lance Evers.

So I became a true performer, pro wrestler, and ECW. I think WCW was where I proved that I could main event on a big stage. And then WWF was just sort of, okay, I'm on the biggest stage. And I think that's where I really had the chance to. And again, Chris Jericho can attest to this. My goal, even from wrestling camp, was never to be world champion. It was to be respected by my peers as a good worker. And I think WWF was really where the top level performers of the industry worked with me most.

And I earned that respect. So I think that was sort of the cherry on top of the Sunday, really, even though I, those will say I didn't have as much success in WWF. but I did have several world tag team runs as well as an I see title run and got to work with, you know, Rock and Hogan. So it's not like I was completely wasted. It wasn't all just dancing and having a large penis. I feel like WCW guys just weren't given the respect in WWF that they should have got. There's a ton of examples of that.

I just feel like there's guys, I talked to DDP recently. It's just like what they did to a guy like that. I feel like there's a lot of examples of that. well, I think in wrestling, and this, you always have to fit in and adapt. And not everyone can do that. And that's something that, again, you know, I attest Jericho and guys that broke in in our era, like Jericho went to Mexico and got over. He went to Japan and got over.

He went to ECW and got over. He went to WCW and got over. because he could adapt, WWF, AEW, New Japan. And then there are those that succeed in a certain environment. And they may not be able to adapt. And when they go somewhere else, they want to succeed in under the exact same situation, they got to succeed in the last place. And that's not always the case.

And that's where versatility really helps. And there was a lot of people that succeeded greatly in ECW, but didn't thrive elsewhere. There was people that thrived in WC, but now there was a lot of politics keeping a lot of people, you know, from succeeding when they went to WWF. And I think I was very fortunate in that, that I think I was far enough down the main event pecking order of the WCW guys, that I was low on the radar of guys that needed to be neat. capped when they came in. But I was high enough up that I wasn't just a guy they're going to send to developmental and put in the cruiserweight division. So I was sort of, I think I benefited on that.

And then also, too, I'm a very versatile guy that can make others look good and quickly get the respect and the desire of others to want to work with me because, wow, he'll really make me look good. And that too is, you know, there's stars and there's star makers, and I don't make any bones about it. I'm more a star maker than a star. But if you're a star, then you require star makers. And when you're an outsider being brought in, the home team doesn't want to be the star maker to your star. And that's when politics gets in the way.

And if you don't adapt and fit into the model that's there for you to fit into, it makes it easy for people to dismiss the abilities you do have. Speaking of abilities, I think that nobody has a more textbook super kick than Lance Storm. And it's funny, it was not something I ever planned or wanted to do. Wow. I think I could be wrong, but in my memory, the first one I ever threw was just because Jimmy Delray called one on the fly in Smoky Mountain. He sent me off the ropes and said, leapfrog me, hit me with a super kick.

I'm like, okay. And I, and just the, the, the footwork of leapfrogging is why I throw it with my left foot, not my right. That is just as I land and turn, that was the leg that was facing him. That's the one I threw at him. And then when he called it again the next night, I'm like, oh, shit, I should probably figure out how to do this damn thing and started working on it. Now, it's possible my memory is not accurate and I threw one before then, but it's, just the way. And it ended up being, you know, again, really good for me. And I got quite good at. And I think, because I know other people don't, but I always practice mine on a brick wall.

Wow. Because if you stiff the guy, you knock yourself over. Yeah. So you have to be pretty much perfect. Because either you don't touch the wall or you hit it too hard and you fall over because you're standing on one foot. And so I always, you know, sometimes it's a metal fire door or something, but I always would stretch and warm up and I'd pick a spot on the wall. And if I could tap it with my toe, then I knew I was light.

And when I had, I, like, I lunge in with my whole body and there's that big throwing at the hip. So it's like there's a lot of appearance of oomph behind it. But I don't extend with the knee and actually kick. And I got really good because that's one thing that I always, I appreciate when people say I had one of the better looking super kicks because it's like, I touch you, but I don't touch you.

I've had countless people pull me aside afterwards and apologize for putting a hand up and swear they never will again. I had a student. It was funny. We were doing camp because I wrestled with all my students when I ran my school. Yeah. And we used a super kick as the finish. So I hit him with the super kick and hit him. then we're watching the match back.

And the kick looked great. Kid took a really nice bump. But when he watched it back and saw how good it looked, his mouth fell open. He's like, how? I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, I didn't feel it. How? I'm like, well, I'm pretty good at this one. You know how many up-and-coming wrestlers are going to be kicking brick walls or doors like from this point on after hearing this story?

If it makes their kicks safer, I'm all for it. A lot of people point to the era that you were in your prime, you know, late 90s, early 2000s as, you know, the heyday, the best era of pro wrestling. Wrestling the last, let's say, two, three, four years has definitely been having a resurgence. And I think that this may be an era that we look back on in 20 years and go, man, things are pretty good right now. What do you think it is right now that is causing this resurgence in pro wrestling?

I think the biggest thing is AEW. The late 90s to the early 2000s was when we had, well, we had WWF, we had WCW at ECW. We had, you know, two giant players and a pretty solid player as well. So there was a lot of places to work, a lot of people wanting to get into the business, a lot of options. And then when both ECW and WCW shut down, it just, sort of, oh, there's just one. And there was less excitement when there was just one. And when AEW formed, it was just like, holy cow, you know, there's another player on the field. And I think it really stirred up. And it also helps that Indies had really started building up bigger and bigger.

And impact has been there, the bridge from when WCW shut down until today. But it, of than a very, very brief period of time, never really had that giant feel. And I just think AEW has built that competitiveness that in some ways totally doesn't help, but in other ways it totally does. And it just people like to have a side to root for. I think that's why people pick their home team and basketball, football, or whatever. And with wrestling now, they can pick a home team. and root against another team.

And it just, and it creates a bit more buzz and obviously the ability for people to make bigger and bigger money really hopes. You were working backstage as a producer in WWE and now you're working backstage as a producer in impact. So, you know, you're in there. You're seeing it. And I'm curious if there's anything that is missing from this era of wrestling that you guys did have 20 years ago.

There is, but I don't think it can be brought back. back, and I only had a few times, but when fans, the majority of them, or even just a large percentage of them, truly believe and care, it is like nothing else. Back, you know, we go back into cave, if you will, like Smoky Mountain, those people, if you came out of the babyface locker room, they loved you. And if you come out of the heel locker room, they genuinely hated you. Yeah. And they cared whether you win or lost.

they weren't out to see how many stars you'd get, which moves you'd pull off. They were genuinely hoping you would win. And again, I did a tour of Lebanon early on, and those fans 100% believed it. There was a gun pulled at one point in time. What? Yeah. So, and, you know, Europe, when I worked there, they genuinely believed it and cared when you one and the emotion you get and if you've ever seen you know world class footage von erics freebirds it's

like there's a level of emotion and true excitement when fans believe that is just different and i don't think you can necessarily ever get that back but it's different and i've worked both it's so much better that just when they live and breathe by what's going on It's just, you can't really talk about it. It's just different. And it's just, it's gone. And again, it's not anyone's fault. You know, there's the internet.

There's the availability information. Like, I didn't even know the wrestling observer existed when I broke in. You know what I mean? There was still many people who thought wrestling was real. And there was, or at least had that doubt because the number of people who asked me to confirm finally once and for all. it's fake, right? And they wanted someone on the inside to confirm it for them.

That little ounce of doubt makes a big difference. I've seen you make some tweets about it. And since you mentioned the wrestling observer and five-star matches, where do you sit? Where do you sit on match ratings? I think for the most part, they're asininely stupid. Well, it's just someone's opinion like, you know, a Ciskel and Ebert giving it two thumbs up. It's like, oh, great. And I think when it started, it was very valuable because it started during the tape trading era.

And if you're old enough to be part of the tape trading error, it's like you would get lists of tapes that someone had in the mail where you actually went to the post office, picked up your letter and opened it up. And there would be a printed photocopy sheet of all the tapes the tapes the dude had. and if you're ordering three tapes of all Japan pro wrestling, which tapes do you buy? Well, if you have access to the observer, you can go look up the shows, and you can find out, oh shit,

this show had, you know, really highly rated matches. It's probably good. So it's like a movie critic. What movie you want to see? Well, what are the critics saying is a good movie?

I'll go watch that. So it would help you. But I just find it insanely ridiculous that someone would watch the movie and then want to know what someone else thought about and determine their enjoyment based on the like you've seen the movie did you like it if you did it's great if you didn't it wasn't and going back and comparing like i'll go watch this match man i think that was three and a quarter i'm going to go see if i'm right yeah what do you mean if you're right. It's like, that's just his opinion. Who's to say either one of you are right?

Yeah, I got into quite the discussion with Dave Meltzer about this. And I guess for me, it just comes down to, if we're going to use movies as an analogy here, if you're constantly saying Quentin Tarantino movies are awesome, and you're saying, yeah, Christopher Nolan movies are just okay all the time, I guess people sometimes go, well, actually, some of these are pretty good. Maybe you should give them another luck. Why? But he likes Tarantino movies. You're right.

He likes New Japan. I mean, that's really really good for him. Everybody has their tastes. It's like if you asked, you know, yourself, you know, someone asked you, hey, rate these 10 albums and they give you a hip-hop album, a country album and a pop album, whatever kind of music there is, a reggae album. in a bluegrass album, it's like, you're going to like certain ones. Yeah. If you give him to Jim Cornett, he's probably going to like different ones. Yeah.

Doesn't mean anybody's wrong. Yeah. It's just you don't like bluegrass. Maybe Jim Cornett does. Yeah. And arguing over a number, like, what? And it's also because I'm old. But when I broke in, the goal was not.

never ever have the best match possible. The goal was hook the people with as little physical effort as possible. Because the goal was that was a night off, but we had them. And you worked as hard as you needed to to get the crowd. And it was a common saying, and any person probably my age or older has said it, where there's that moment in the match where you just under your breath to your partner, we got them. And you just know they're hooked. We've emotionally hooked the people. And it's like, then you do your match and you leave and you're happy. And if it was a night off and

you didn't have to kill yourself, it was even better. And it used to be a common expression in the business. Oh, that guy's a night off. Because you know you could hook the people without any effort. And we used to joke about it, but there was contests of how long you could go in your match before. before you actually touched. And it was just playing the crowd with cheap heat, but you had to entertain the crowd the whole time. So having a quote unquote five star match, it was never a goal.

It was never talked about. It was never considered. It was, did you hook to people? Yep. Anybody get hurt? Nope. Job done. And that's why I laugh about,

oh, more people are getting five star matches. It's like, well, you know, that was never Jim Duggan's goal ever in his life. Right. His goal was to get over and hook the people. So it's like, is Kenny Omega a better wrestler than Jim Duggan? It's like, well, technically everyone's going to say yes. But it's like Jim's Duggan's job was to get over. And if you go back and watch UWF and early WF, dude got over.

Mission accomplished. And it's just a different industry. Now there's a whole generation of wrestlers that are going, well, how many stars did my match get? Yeah. And it's like, I can honestly say never in my career once ever. Did I look, check or find out? I did. It was a year or so ago.

Me and a friend of mine online, the topic of ratings came up. And there was a match that neither one of us liked particularly much. And Dave gave it some kind of number three and three. three, quarters, four, whatever it was. Yeah. And we started talking and I'm like, I wonder if Dave's ever rated anything I've ever done that high. And we went back and looked up like anarchy rules from ECW that a lot of people today

still talk about, you know, my SummerSlam match with Edge, a few of my, what you would consider my better matches. Yeah. And they all were like three and a quarter or something. Wow. And there was, whatever match it was we were talking about, it's like, I guarantee in a week no one will remember this match ever occurred. And it was rated considerably.

It's like, but like we looked it up for the sake of an argument and a debate, but it's like, who cares? Like, anarchy rules was 98, maybe 99 at 99. And it was the first paper that was carried in Canada. But it's like, it was 24 years ago, people still mention that match to me. and at the time we opened the show in Chicago, the place went absolutely bat shit crazy. We got a standing ovation midmatch.

It's like, we got him. Yeah. And neither one of us got hurt, and we had a hell of a lot of fun. And I've even mentioned this to Dave once. I was talking to him about it. And I don't know where the hell I would have been act. Because my brain, we actually spoke about it,

not just DM'd, but my match with Terry Funk, which is probably my favorite. I've had several, but the one, I worked Terry Funk in his hometown of Amarillo, Texas. I dropped the Canadian U.S. title to him on a host show in WCW. It was perfect. As much as Americans love America, Texans love Texas, and Amarilloites, whatever they might be called, love Terry Funk. He was a god, and they hated me. And literally everything we did, if I touched him, I had just committed the gravest sin in the history of the world.

and if he touched me, it was New Year's Eve and the ball just dropped. Like the crowd reaction was insane. And when he won, the place went nuts. The baby faces that came out to raise Terry on his shoulders afterwards thanked us both for letting us be a part of that emotion. And like I told Dave, I've got it on DVD. Charles Robertson recorded it gave it to me in VHS. I've since converted to a DVD. But it's like in that moment that night, I told Dave, it's 10 stars.

It's perfect. I said, but you go back and watch it. It's probably like two and three quarters. Who knows? You know what I mean? It's like because wrestling's about the moment. Yeah. And in that moment, there is no way we could have hooked the people bigger at all.

But if you're going to sit down and watch a match from 2000 today in your living room without the angle, the story, and the mood of the building, who knows what it is. Is this one of the big pieces of advice that you're giving to wrestlers in your role now in Impact Wrestling? Is it about creating that moment? Not that moment so much, but quite literally in quotes, I use that you need to create moments. And it's that there needs to be, if you're a baby face, if you're a heel, there needs to be a moment where you do something as a baby face that makes the crowd excited and happy. And you need to be in a position where we can see your face and you look as happy as we feel so that we can connect in that moment and associate that joy with your face. And similarly as a

heel, there needs to be a moment where you make us mad, where we are unhappy, pissed off, angry, whatever you want to say. And we see you and associate that with you. And also, too, matching the energy in that moment that if the crowd energy drops, you as a heel need to represent that. You can't be moving around quickly because then the energy doesn't match. That's where the old school baby face fire came from. It's what an end zone dance is all about. You score that touchdown.

The crowd's doing this. Well, if you're just standing there like a dork, you're not in the party withs. But if you're spiking that football and you're doing your icky shuffle or whatever other dated reference I can throw out there, where you look as excited, then we connect. We're at the same party.

We're both drunk. We're having fun. We associate that with you. Where if you are just constantly doing your spots and never have that moment where we can celebrate with you that points have been scored, that ball has been spiked, then it's just that we enjoy the match, and it's not you.

And that's where you get over. And then on top of that, it's something that Jim Ross taught me in 1994 in Smoky Mountain. In that moment where you stop doing all of your action and stuff, it gives the announcers and the commentators a chance to actually put you over. Because Jim Ross pulled me aside one of the first matches he called for me in Smoky Mountain. He says, just so you know, kid, he says, unless you actually

stop doing something long enough. I can't ever talk about you and put you over. And again, he did it in a funny, very honest way, but just sort of like, I kind of carry a lot of credibility here. Let me put you over, kid. And it really drove it in my head because he says, if you just keep wrestling, I'm going to be saying, oh, drop kick, touchdown, arm drag. He says, if you stop for a second, I can tell people how great you are and get you over.

Wow. And I'm like, thank you, sir. I'm going to do that. And you realize that there needs to be those moments where the audience can connect to you. And if it's on television, that the announcers can do something other than stating the names of all the moves you're doing and let people actually know who you are as a person so they can connect to you. Yeah, I know how much, like, Smoky Mountain meant to you and how important it was to your career to become the performer that you were. That's something you learned from Jim Ross there. What's something you learned from Jim Cornett when you were there?

The biggest thing I learned from Jim Cornett was you're not doing the wrestling, and this is probably, again, dating me because it's not necessarily done this way anymore. You're wrestling the match for the audience, not yourself. Don't do the match you want. Do the match that the audience wants. Because when Jericho and I went to Smokey, we're watching New Japan Junior Heavyweight matches in, you know, 1993. and we're trying to be cutting edge and doing all these fancy moves and shit. And then we're in Hazard, Kentucky. And the audience is looking at going, what the hell of these kids doing?

And it's like we had to slow it down. And Jim was the one that drove at home that I know you guys want to be going 55. No one in this town has ever drove over 35 in their life. Maybe start at 40. You've got to bring them into the decade before you try to bring them completely up to speed. And I learned that it is your audience. It's like you're the performer. You're not doing the match for you.

You didn't buy the ticket. And that's where I really started realizing that, okay, what is this building want? What do these people want and working to them? The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. soccer podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clevenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity.

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And you love him or you hate him. There's really no in between. I would say there's a lot of people that are both, but yes. Maybe they love to hate him. No, I think there's something positive. But I think there's people that love what he did in his career and his knowledge of history. And they also hate where he's gone with his podcast and his digging in and his takes on much of current wrestling, which are very easy to hate. you know, the, the rant he cut on Becky Lynch for getting pregnant was just like,

what are you talking about? You know what I mean? It's like, let the woman have a kid if she wants to have a kid. It's like, yeah, it's almost like he's playing up like a heel version of himself, you know, on the podcast. I think many podcasters get into that. Yeah. And politicians.

I should turn a heel on you right now. No, but there's that I must develop a following. And actually, he's following the advice he's. gave me to a certain extent. True. He's found an audience that wants to hear this, and he is delivering that to his audience. And there are those. And I don't know if it's a defense of him.

I know I've used it before. But I think the wrestling business is so important to Jim that it's like his kid. and when he saw Kenny Omega wrestle a blow-up doll, a nine-year-old girl, that was such an atrocity against his child that it can never be forgiven. So no matter what Kenny Omega ever does, he could solve world hunger, he could, you know, be the greatest human being on the planet, do the greatest matches of even Jim Cornett's style, there is that sin that was committed against Jim Cornett's child

when he was in DDT that must never be forgiven. And he's just dug in for that. And he just seems to refuse to acknowledge that anything he's done after that point has any value whatsoever, despite mounds and mounds of evidence to the contrary. Yeah, now there's a whole group of things. fans, they will just always know Kenny Omega's, twinkle toes.

Yes. There's an additional part to that, but we will leave that out. The thing too, like, I'm, I'm appalled as much as anyone when I see people wrestling eight-year-old girls blow-up dolls in particular. But if I was in year two of my wrestling career, year five of my wrestling career, and the only booking I got was this company in Japan. And I'm in Japan working and other people on the show are doing these matches. And then I'm told, your turn, even as much as I would hate it, I don't know if I'd quit my job over it.

And I think that's something that like, I've never talked to Kenny about it. I know them, but not well. Obviously, we both have Don as a mutual friend. So there's an association there. But it's like, I don't even know whether he was particularly happy with. doing it. But that's what DDT was and to a certain extent still is. And it's not something I would like to do, but I don't know if I would have been man enough to not. Right, right. Lance, this has been like an absolute masterclass. I feel like there's going to be a lot of people who want to get

into pro wrestling that are going to be listening to this several times because I think you've given us so many great nuggets here. I just have a few more questions as we wrap this up. You think the Storm Wrestling Academy will ever be reopened? Maybe you have a little bit more time on your hands right now? I don't see it happening. It was such a giant task of getting it started. Getting insurance is a gigantic hurdle, even just getting a ring, getting it. It was a lot of work. And I don't know if I have the desire to do that much work again. And I stopped doing it primarily because I'm a hands-on. teacher. I took literally every time we taught moves, I was pretty much taking them from all the students first. Wow. From a safety standpoint, too, because I'm really good at protecting myself. So, all right, we're doing DDTs today. I'm going to make sure you're doing it right. DDT me first. Okay, we're doing suplexes, suplex me first. If you don't hurt me and I feel like you're

competent, you can give it to the rest of the students. And I had matches with every single student, but one. He was someone who kept showing up late and his last day, which was his turn to have a match, he showed up late and didn't get his match. But I had a match with every student. And it just started taking its physical toll. It was probably more abuse than having a wrestling career was. And I was just, no, I'm done. I really enjoyed the producer teaching aspect of it. So I suspect I will stay with impact for an extended period of time because I love the atmosphere and the talent there and very much enjoy the schedule. Or some of your students that came through that you're especially proud of what they've accomplished. This is a weird thing with me.

I don't like the word and I don't like saying I'm proud of people. Okay. because I feel then I'm taking their credit. You should be proud of your own accomplishments, but if I go, I'm proud that Taya Valkyrie has succeeded so much in a career, I'm boasting my chest that I did a good job. It's like, no, she did a good job.

She fought like crazy and paid her dues and fought like crazy and dealt with stuff and succeeded. I'm extremely happy for her. I have a tremendous amount of respect for her. But I think pride as a word is hers. And there's many of them, you know, Chelsea Green right now is having a hell of a run and really found herself. And I'm tremendously happy for her. But I always sort of, it gets stuck in my throat to say the word proud.

And I think the only times I've used it, I've had people when, you know, when Emma got signed, when Chelsea got signed, when Tyler Breeze got. got signed. When, you know, Peyton, Hoyce, I always say Hoyst, it was Royce for them, but my fandom of Hicks and Gracie and Hoyce Gracie comes out. When they got signed, they're like, oh, you must be really proud now that they're signs. And I'm like, I was proud of them day one. Because they worked harder after my school and succeeded, I don't think I should feel better about myself for that. So I always think saying I'm proud of you is in some way taking credit. And I don't like that.

And I've noticed it. There will be people that, hey, I'm so proud of you, brother. And I'm like, there is no connection to his success to you. Why are you proud? And I just think it feels like you're taking credit you don't deserve. So I avoid using that term, but I'm very much. very happy for so many of them that have had success. And I've had that too in that, and it's a different era again, a difference between when

I broke in and now. Like, it blows my mind when people congratulate people for winning a pro wrestling match. Because in my era, you would be labeled a mark if you acted like the win mattered to you. And I remember when I won the ECW tag titles with Candido, we come back to the. the curtain, everybody was congratulating us. And when Chris and I got by ourselves by our chairs and sat down, I'm like, I said to him, I'm like,

they're ribbing, right? He's like, no, they really mean it. I'm like, we didn't really win. And it's like, well, yeah, but they think it means something. I'm like, okay. And so when my students or friends achieve different levels

and you will see everyone congratulating them, I never do. And I have sent DMs to people. I remember Drew when he won the world title at Mania, the pandemic years, because I'd worked with Drew as my brief run before the pandemic as a producer. Yeah. And a big fan of the guy.

And I was really happy for him. And I sent him a text or a DM. I don't remember which. And I just said to him, it's like, I refuse to congratulate people on winning professional wrestling matches, but I am very. happy for you. It's really nice when the good people win. And it's like, and by that, I wasn't even meaning win the match. It was just win in life. It's like, you know, he achieved that level and I was happy for him, but I can't. And just to clarify, I do believe in many instances, not all,

there is an accomplishment with being, reaching that top level and being the world champion, and especially if you're actually the figurehead of the promotion. But even to me then, I wouldn't wait until the one, two, three to congratulate them. Like once the decision is made that Adam Copeland has achieved the level of success, we can main event with this guy, we're going to put the world title on them and have them as our top guy. Well, that's when the congratulations are due.

we don't need to wait until he gets his hand raised and walks back with the trophy because again, I was taught in a different era where it's a work, brother. And that was sort of my mentality when I came back from the match with Chris Candido. It's like, everyone's congratulating him and I. And I'm like, we're the same, like, Phil and Doug and balls and axes. also busted their ass. It's like, why are you congratulating us?

The six of us worked together to have this match. It's just the outcome was decided ahead of time that we would be the ones winning. We haven't accomplished anything after the match that we hadn't accomplished before the match. And it just didn't sit well in my head. So I always, when there's those that I feel like deserve the pat on the back, because I know they're happy they have achieved a championship, I always preface with the, I will not give congratulations, but I am very happy for your success. That is such a great perspective.

I feel like moving forward, I'm going to be thinking about that every time I type out, congratulate. No, no, no, backspace, back. Lance, this has been such a great conversation. This is everything I would, I hoped it would have been, and more. And I can't wait to talk to you again. Maybe it's sometime in person next time. But I end every conversation with the same question because gratitude, such a,

a big part of my life. I wake up every day. I say out loud, three things I'm grateful for. And I do it before I go to sleep too. What's three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? I think my family has to be first. It always was my priority over my career. I have two kids and a wife that I love dearly and are a big part of my life now. And then I think the other two things. Like my career as a whole, but I, like Chris Jericho, the debt of gratitude, I owe that man, not just from making me stay in Calgary and not quit that first day, but for the constant support and assistance throughout my career. I just don't think it's possible I could have gotten through those first five years without them. And then I think there's always, because I always

who you really want to think, but fit Finley. I worked with him in Europe as a wrestler and stole a lot of stuff from him, but him just his professionalism and his a business, the job of pro wrestling above all else that he always put the business ahead of himself and that level of professionalism. I both appreciated being around, but also just what it taught me and helped make me the man I am. Those would be my go-toes, my family most important. And then my career would not have happened without Jericho.

And I don't think I'd have been the performer I am and the man I am without crossing paths with Fit Finley. Well, again, sir, thank you so much for this great conversation. Thank you for making the time to do this, too. Oh, no problem. I'm semi-retired. My impact schedule makes things fairly easy. And the Laurier tie-in was an easy sell when they approached me with doing this interview. Although the guy who pitched it was incorrect in that he had pitched to Lou that we went to the same high school.

Yeah, I was like, no, Derek, we got this wrong. It was the same college, the same university. Yeah, because I'm like, really? And so I looked up who you were and it's like, Lori, I'm like, okay, they just got it wrong. Lance, thank you again. Oh, my pleasure. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, Lance Storm,

the perspective that he has on pro wrestling, I just feel like it's unlike anyone else's. By the way, by the way, do you think we're going to come full circle? Are we going to get Chris Jericho versus Lance Storm for their very first match and Chris Jericho versus Lance Storm for their very last match?

Could you imagine? I don't think that's ever been done in the history of pro wrestling. Certainly not with 30. it'd be 33 years now, but who knows when Chris Jericho is going to retire, because I feel like that guy could just go forever. Unbelievable. And like I said, the intro here,

it just feels like with everything that Lance Storm has, like the knowledge that he possesses, what a great fit for what he's doing as a producer for Impact Wrestling. And by the way, so please, take a screenshot, tag us. He's at Lance Storm. He's at Storm Wrestling on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. But by the way, I love how many of you have been tweeting me about these quotes at the end of these episodes.

Because it just makes me feel good knowing that we don't just go, what are three things you're grateful for? Thanks for being on the show. Boom, you turn it off. That's it. Thank you. You're still here right now. And thank you for listening all the way until the end. I put a lot of time and thought into these quotes because they mean so much to me in this moment as I'm recording them.

And I hope that for some of you, these land and these resonate, and they mean something for you. So this one is from Simon Sinek. He's written one of my favorite books, at least in the last, call it decade or so, called Start with Why. And this quote is, happiness comes from what we do. Fulfillment comes from why we do it. So good. So powerful.

Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast. 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987.

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