Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Lex Luger On Possibly Walking Again, Working With DDP, Hall Of Fame, Sting

Starting point is 00:00:00 Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet! Welcome back to another one here on Inside. I'm CBV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for being with us on this one, and thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Grab your phone and put that follow button in the torture rack because we've had some big guests on the show in January and February, but just wait until you see who we have coming up.

Starting point is 00:00:43 in March and April, and I don't want you to miss it. Also, it's just crazy that according to the analytics, 70% of people who listen to the show don't follow the show. Only 30% of you are supporting the show by following the show. The rest of you can't click a button. That's it. I'm not asking for money. I'm not asking you to subscribe to a Patreon. And if other shows do that, that is totally fine. I'm just saying, could you just click a button? That's it. That's just a That's it. Click a button. But I digress.

Starting point is 00:01:17 I'm sure if you're listening to this, you've seen the videos that DDP's put out showing the work that he's been doing with Lex Lugar. Lex tells the whole story here, but he suffered a spinal cord injury in 2007 and was paralyzed from the neck down. He's been able to gain mobility of his shoulders and his arms, but the work he's been doing with DDP has been incredible.

Starting point is 00:01:39 He's now able to stand on his own. They just put that video out earlier this week. It's crazy. It's truly incredible. And we talk about all of that. We also dig into his career with WWE and WCW. And as he says, he went from the penthouse to the outhouse to the jailhouse. But now he has such an excitement for life and this massive energy about him. And I think you'll appreciate just how candid he is in this conversation. snap a screenshot and tag us online. Let us know you're listening to this.

Starting point is 00:02:15 He's at Genuine Lex Lugar on Twitter, and that's the only social media that he has. So if you think you're following him or if you think he's following you on Facebook or Instagram, that's not him. He's only on Twitter. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. So tag us on there.

Starting point is 00:02:32 And here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, Lex Lugar. Lex, so good to see you. Thank you. Appreciate it, Chris. I can't believe we've never done this before. How about that, huh? Yeah, and you look fantastic.

Starting point is 00:02:48 Thank you. I feel fantastic. So you've been working with DDP for the last handful of months. Yeah. So where are you at now? Life changing. It's, it's, we've made a lot of progress. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:59 Where did this journey with Diamond Dallas Page begin? Well, we've been obviously friends for years. Sure. Through wrestling, but the latest journey started when I had taken a lot of falls. And I always wanted to get the most. out of what I felt the good Lord gave me as far as recovery from my injury and function. I'm what Shepard Center called like a one-percenter, which is they're a world-class spinal cord rehab centers.

Starting point is 00:03:26 I spent two years there back at 08, 09 after my spinal cord injury. And I was had such high, I'm such a high functioning, they call me a high-functioning quadriplegic. I had a cervical injury, which makes me a quadriplegic, paraplegic's waist down, quadriplegic, neck down. So all I was supposed to be able to do is move my head and shoulders, need 24-hour care of the rest of my life, bat, bed, clothed, round-the-clock care. And, you know, I live independently, and I was able to walk, you know, out of Shepard initially. Wow. And, but I was pushing the envelope on my, on my ability and mobility and balance. I started taking a lot of falls. And, uh, it got to the,

Starting point is 00:04:13 the point where they felt I was endangering. My neurologist at Shepherd told me, Dr. Bilski. Because Lex, he goes, you're one of our miracles. But he said, if you keep on falling like that, you have to wear a helmet, elbow pads, and knee pads like a skateboarder. Or he goes, or you're going to have to use some mobility of voices like a walker and a chair for safety and balance because we don't want you back in here with a head injury, which they also specialize it.

Starting point is 00:04:41 because you've already been here for a spinal cord injury. We do not want you back in here with a head injury. So I said, okay. And I started using the mobility devices, but I kept on pushing the envelope by walking. I was taking some really bad fall. It was a miracle I didn't. Really have a bad injury.

Starting point is 00:04:58 And so they finally convinced me to use the chair and walker more. And I kind of, I had to admit the D when we got back together here recently. I got scared. It's hard to admit for us guys, but I got scared of some of the falls and what they tell me could happen, and I started sitting too much and like anybody else

Starting point is 00:05:17 and not walking enough. And if you don't use it, you lose it. And I pretty much lost alma mobility. My quality of life had dropped dramatically. I saw Dee back at Sting's retirement match that we both were able to go to, which was awesome. And I just said, hey, Dee.

Starting point is 00:05:39 He goes what? I go, I think we could do maybe a little bit of work on, get a little more movement. I go, I'm pretty much just chair full time, man. And I'm having trouble just doing everyday stuff from brushing my teeth, the shower, and I go, you know, my quality of life's dropped quite a bit.

Starting point is 00:05:55 My energy levels, everything. So, man, you know D, right? All you got to do is tell him that. He goes, brother, I've been waiting for you to come to me on this. So we went to work, and we made an amazing progress that we were going to reveal to everybody. for his incredible partner, Steve and him are document and kind of filming it and the progress, and it's going to be pretty cool.

Starting point is 00:06:18 I'm real excited. So to be clear. And thankful for what he's doing with him. He's taking a, I mean, our friendship was always there, but I mean, our friendship is growing. So he's a special guy. Yeah. He's the best. He's a special guy.

Starting point is 00:06:30 And the great thing about Dallas is he cares more about others than it cares about himself. Absolutely incredible. He has such a gigantic heart. Yep. He's an encourager A-plus, man. Yes. God gave him the gift of encouragement. He takes it all the way.

Starting point is 00:06:46 He told me that it roots back to a quote from Zig Ziglari heard years ago. You can get anything you want life if you help enough people. Yeah. Absolutely. So to be clear. He's living it. Yes. You do have a wheelchair.

Starting point is 00:06:59 It's off camera, but you're sitting in a chair right now. Uh-huh. Comfortably. There you go. Is this something you would have been able to do a few months ago? Nope. No. Not at all.

Starting point is 00:07:08 Yeah, I was in the wheelchair for a much full time. Wow. Yeah. So I'm excited. What's been the biggest change? Well, everything from BEL stand up and brush my teeth, suddenly lean over the sink trying to. There's things we take for granted, getting off from my chair into the shower,

Starting point is 00:07:26 my chair under the, in the morning, your shower, you're going to the bathroom, your brush your teeth. When you're sitting, it's challenging. And even to safely get from your chair to a toilet or anything. So just everyday functional stuff, eating my coffee up in the morning. I can stand up and put it in the microwave now. I couldn't do that.

Starting point is 00:07:47 I was trying to reach out, spilling coffee everywhere. So, I mean, we were documents of it, but the things you think about, when I go to the grocery store now, I just have to wait, and my grocery store guys would know me, and they see me pull up and they bring me out the power cart. Now I can get the power cart myself with stuff, you know, so, I mean, everything. shop again. So just, I mean, I go on and on every day, if I can go through my day with you,

Starting point is 00:08:13 my quality of life and my function is increased dramatically. So it's amazing. I just love the zest for life that you have. Like, you just have this real energy about you and like, it's very clear that you're grateful for what you have. I am. I do a post on my only social media at genuine Lex Lueger. I'll give it a plug if you don't mind. This is on Twitter, yeah. Yeah, I, I have a little Twitter account, X account. And I do it all myself. You have a guy to do that? No, and every day I put another day, thank you, Lord.

Starting point is 00:08:43 So I'm 118-24, which is today is the day the Lord has made us rejoice and be glad in it. So I'm thankful for every day, and I just want to make the best of it. So, yeah. Are you looking to get to a point where you can walk again? Oh, yeah. Now, I may need to use devices sometimes for safety. I'm longer distance up. I'd like for shorter term walks and stuff,

Starting point is 00:09:06 I'd love to get back again. Like if I parked my car, I want to go in the restaurant with my family and friends' stuff instead of getting the wheelchair out of the car and the big production with that, I'll be able to get out of my car and walk in the restaurant

Starting point is 00:09:19 and sit down and have a meal and walk back out. That would be huge. Did this feel impossible a few years ago, the idea of standing up again, the idea of possibly walking again? It did. I had gotten... scared and discouraged with the walking and all the falls I was taking. So I had really pulled back and was

Starting point is 00:09:40 pretty much relegated and had come to the terms that maybe I'm just going to be in the wheelchair the rest of my life. So I was going to make the best of that, but still to have this gift that by working with Dee and a gift from God, I think, to be able to get this increased mobility again, I think is very exciting. Your story is so interesting because it wasn't a car crash. It wasn't an accident. It was a freak accident, right? And for people who don't know, walk us through exactly what happened.

Starting point is 00:10:17 I'm headed to San Francisco for an appearance. I had to get in that one last heavy workout and shower and run to the airport for overnight, like a red-eye flight from Atlanta into Frisco left. I don't know, like midnight or something. So I got an heavy shoulder-trapping neck workout, which they say may have been a factor, might not. So that was my last heavy workout ever. And I was on the airplane sitting.

Starting point is 00:10:50 I was talking to somebody next to me had my head turned right after that workout. And I turned my head back. This is just my theory. The neurologists aren't sure that had this had anything to do with it. But I kind of feel like it did. And they think it might have. I turned my head back to the front and had this burning, stabbing pain between my shoulder blades.

Starting point is 00:11:10 But, you know, football, wrestling, we get aches and pains, a little pinched nerves all the time. So I think, oh, boy, I go, man, that didn't feel good. That, that didn't feel right. I got to the hotel. I checked in. And I woke up. I'm not sure what timing was. I was just pre-dawn.

Starting point is 00:11:28 and I had the worst burning stabbing pain in my lower neck shoulder blade area. Unbelievable. And it was so bad, I was trying, I'm a side sleeper, I was on my side towards the nightstand. And I was trying to get to a phone. And so I figured maybe I'd get to the phone

Starting point is 00:11:49 like a seal, hit it with my nose. I didn't know what, I was in so much pain. I fell off the bed down to the floor. And when I was on the bed, I actually felt like I was in a metal, you know those old metal diver suits? You see in the metal helmet?

Starting point is 00:12:04 Yes. From back into like the mid-fitt 1900s? Yeah. I felt like I was in one of those suits and there was magnets pulling me from underneath almost through the mattress. I didn't know what being paralyzed felt like. And so I can move my head and shoulders,

Starting point is 00:12:18 but that threw me off the bed. Now is up against the nice stand with my chin down to my chest and I didn't know this either. When you have a cervical, high spinal, it affects your breathing, which didn't help my breathing. My breathing was already compromised, so I thought I was going to suffocate. So now I'm up against the nightstand, can't move. I feel like I'm being pulled by magnet through the floor now,

Starting point is 00:12:40 and I feel like I'm suffering. I thought that was it. And I tell people this, and the Lord came into that room, man, Proverbs 3, 5, and 6. I was a brand new believer. I didn't even know I had a verse memorized in the Bible, but Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not upon your own understanding.

Starting point is 00:13:02 Ignallage me in all your ways and I'll make your past straight. It was so calming when I felt like God was actually almost speaking to me. I didn't hear a voice or anything, but that resonated so much to me that my breathing calmed down and my heart rate. And I laid there probably for hours until they came from my appearance. When I answered the door, they had to knock my door down. Wow. I locked my door. I usually don't put the, of course, I put the extra lock in my door, which I don't normally do.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Say the drama, I always have a life of drama. Are you screaming to them? Like, I can't get up. I couldn't scream because my breathing was compromised. I can't believe the guy heard me. He's knocking the door. Knock on the door. I'm like, help.

Starting point is 00:13:47 That's all I could get out was help. And, but they knew when I didn't open the door and it was locked, they had to be in there. So that's when they called the 9-1-1. They came in and bashed my door down. And who's there? Go back to D. Now, let's go full circle back to DDP. Who's there out in Frisco for the appearance I was at as well?

Starting point is 00:14:05 DDP comes into the room. And he can business me. I wanted the medics. They had picked me up off the floor and sent me in a chair in October. I'm like, I'm paralyzed back down in a chair. And I'm like, no, I'm okay. I think I'm dehydrated maybe. And D looks at me.

Starting point is 00:14:21 He goes, Luke. You got to go with these guys, man. This ain't dehydration. Bro, you know, he's a jersey boy. Hey, bro, this ain't, this ain't eff in hydration. You need to go with these guys. So they took me downstairs. The medics were big wrestling fans, a guy and a girl.

Starting point is 00:14:38 And they looked at each other. I see, I'm laying there. I can't move up, but I'm listening to him. They go, guys, where do we take them? And they're naming these hospitals, and they're like this. And they go, Stanford, which is like almost an hour from the airport.

Starting point is 00:14:51 the guy goes oh man we might get fired if we do that let's do it they drove me all way to stanford which is a world-class medical facility they were unbelievable ran every test you could possibly do even they once again getting back to your original question i've given you a really long answer that's great but they said it could have been the workout it could have been you we saw a little bit of stenosis nothing from your wrestling and football career that would that necessarily made the this happen. We see this in people all the time that never did sports or any high collision stuff. We put it in a category, kind of like a category, we don't know what you have,

Starting point is 00:15:33 or what caused a transverse myelitis swelling of the spinal cord. I massive swelling from C5 down to T5. And that's the lights out. From there down, that's it for the rest of your life. Because when they were telling me my prognosis a few weeks later when I got to Atlanta, which was an unbelievable story. How I got to Atlanta, there wasn't any planes to get me there. I got to Atlanta in Sheber Center,

Starting point is 00:15:55 which is a world-class facility right here in Atlanta where I was living at the time, which was a miracle. They put me in room 316, John 316. Yeah. I go, I must be in the right place.

Starting point is 00:16:04 The two nurses agreed were grace and hope. When I came in the room, the name tags, I'm like, oh, my God. Wow. Wow. If you were so defined.

Starting point is 00:16:17 Divide intervention, Chris, I'm telling you, man. It's an incredible story. If you were so defined in your wrestling career by your body, how difficult is it to be defined now by what your body can't do? Well, I focus on what I can do, or what I can't do, of course. I'm a, I call it a, my mentor says Lex,

Starting point is 00:16:36 you've got to be a windshield guy. But I mean, don't be a rear view mirror guy. There's a reason those rear view mirrors are so small. Don't be looking in there, look at her eyes and be a windshield guy. So I always say, I'm a windshield guy. So I'm moving forward, man. There's a great quote we talked about earlier about MLK that you can't fly, run, you can't run, walk,

Starting point is 00:16:57 if you can't rock, qual. But whatever you do, keep on moving forward. If I need a chair, I'm going to roll. I'm going to keep on moving forward, Chris. Where did this mindset come from? It'd be so easy to go, I can't believe this happened to me. I can't believe this. Instead, you're looking forward and going,

Starting point is 00:17:14 look at all the things I'm able to do. You know, Chris, I had my moments where after it happened. they used to come in the morning and lay a Bible on my things. I couldn't hold anything to your reading. They'd tilt my bed up. I'd open up the proverb 3, 5, and 6. Trust the Lord with all that heart, one of my life verses.

Starting point is 00:17:32 Lean on upon your own understanding. I'm like, Lord, I don't know why this happened. I was really questioning God. I spent my whole life, as you said, working out and being one of the best built guys on the planet, one of the strongest. I'm like, what kind of representative of the kingdom am I going to be now, paralyzed to the neck down.

Starting point is 00:17:50 You know, I felt like a useless sloth. And all my muscle mass was disappearing because when you're paralyzed, it's like being in a body cast. If you have your arm, if you broke your arm, Chris and a body cast, you've got good size arms, your arm when they take the cast off. It's like, there's nothing left. Right. And that's what happened to my body over a period.

Starting point is 00:18:10 It's almost like, it was almost kind of looking back, kind of comical. All that never miss a meal, you know, that whole mentality. eight meals a day, get my protein, wake up in the middle of night and pound of protein shakes so I don't get catabolic. Within three or four months, 100 pounds of muscle mass was gone.

Starting point is 00:18:27 Wow. What did you weigh at your heaviest? $2.95. And what did you weigh at your lightest? 175. Wow. I lost almost 100 pounds of muscle mass very quickly. I remember when it hit me, they used to take me out of the bed.

Starting point is 00:18:43 They lift you up with a net like Peter Pan and put you in your chair for rehab every morning, take you down to the rehab center. And they lay in this big elevated mat on a table. And they move you around because even though you can't move, they move your limbs around, stretch you and try to keep some moving in there that they're doing for you. And my shower and my room was being used by one of my roommates.

Starting point is 00:19:09 They had four guys in a room back then. So the tech took me down the hallway, and I went by a mirror. And I saw this really skinny-looking guy. So they had my shirt off and everything. I go, man, look that skinny guy. And I legit. Hit me. I went, gosh, that's me.

Starting point is 00:19:29 I hadn't seen myself in a mirror. I lost over 100 pounds of muscle. I looked so amazeated. I was like, oh. You know, I had a point, though, I had a real Eeyore time for a couple days. And the chaplain at the Sheper Center noticed it because I was, he goes, Lex.

Starting point is 00:19:45 So what's going on, man? I got, I'm having a little E.R. Some E.R. from one of the poo moments. He goes, man, Lex. He goes, I feel like what do I do now? I mean, what's my purpose?

Starting point is 00:20:00 But I mean, look at me. And I mean, Lexi, you realize that, I didn't realize this. 80% of spinal cord injuries are young men, 14 to 24. Wild, reckless, four-wheelers, motorcycles, diving, jumping, you know. And he goes, all those young guys. there time frame-wise, he goes, grew up watching you. Because when you come in that room, because I wonder, why am I here? What do I have to do now?

Starting point is 00:20:25 What am I going to do? And he goes, when you come in that room, every eyes go on you, all those young boys. Who haven't had a chance to live a life like you lived? He goes, what an opportunity to witness to them by how you handle yourself in there. If you stay up, you lift the whole room up. I said, my, God, thank you. I still have a purpose. Right here in this room, right here right now.

Starting point is 00:20:47 Right? Yeah. For these guys. It's not about me, feeling sorry for myself. I can be uplifting to them by how I set this able to, well, Lex can handle what's going on. Then maybe I can too. So it gave me a purpose right away. And I said, Lord, I don't know how to live this way, but I go, either bring me home or show me how to live this way.

Starting point is 00:21:11 And he opened that opportunity up for me through the chapel or shepherd that I still have a guy. He still has a purpose and plan for my life. this way rather. It kind of became a blessing in the sky as Chris. It kind of like, God got my muscle suit out of the way because that was like a false God

Starting point is 00:21:26 to me, almost an idol. That's what I thought about almost 24-7. And for it to be useful to God's purpose for my life and to be an encourager for others, I almost had to get myself, my own selfish interest,

Starting point is 00:21:39 out of the way, so I could be a light and an encourager for others. So in a way, my injury was a real blessing. Prize picks is the best place to get real money sports action. With over 10 million members and billions of dollars in awarded winnings, prize picks has made daily fantasy sports accessible to all. You just pick more or less on at least two players

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Starting point is 00:23:40 Make sure you watch Queen of the Ring when it opens up in theaters nationwide on March 7th. Faith is such a big part of your life. What would this accident look like if you hadn't found God beforehand? Sting says, he said, I would have committed suicide. Wow. My best friend. Because if you hadn't been a believer before that happened, he goes, he goes, the old Lex, you know, Second Grand Prix 5 said, we're a brand new creation in Christ.

Starting point is 00:24:11 So I'm a brand new creation. He said, if you hadn't been born again at that point, he goes, you never, He goes, the old lecture, everything was about you, your body, your workouts. He goes, you would have ended it. When you look at old photos of yourself or old clips, do you see you? Oh, yeah. I love it. I had my moment as the muscle guy and I look back.

Starting point is 00:24:34 I embrace all the, you know, you'd a point like there's a grieving process. I grieve the old lex for a while. But they say in the point of grieving you, for sometimes you're sad and crying and then you're angry sometimes, then you get to a point where you start thinking of the good moment. If your mom or dad passes away, you get the point where you know you're healing and moving forward when you start seeing things at trigger memories of your mom or dad or something that make you smile and are positive thoughts. That's sort of the process I went through.

Starting point is 00:25:07 I was kind of grieved the old Lex for a while, the old muscle suit guy. And then after that, I knew I was through it when I could look back at those photos. and think, wow, look at, man, I really had it going on back then. That's kind of how I look at it. I'm proud of it and how I train and ate and all that stuff, but I actually still go to the gym, still love to go to the gym every day and do a little something, something. Not what I could do, and I'm thankful for that.

Starting point is 00:25:34 But, and sometimes I go, man, I wish I could see some guy doing some heavy stuff. Yeah, I said, man, I missed that a little bit, but I'm glad I can do something. So that's kind of the process I went through on that. DDP was saying like the old Lex never would have been like this. Like you were difficult to deal with. All you thought about was yourself. Definitely. What was the shift?

Starting point is 00:25:58 Was it was it talking with Sting and becoming a believer? Or was it something before that? That was the biggest part. Obviously my transformation was my walk, having a relationship with God, being more. more and again. So that was the big transformation. A lot of things happened instantly for me in that transformation. I didn't, all of a sudden, I didn't cuss anymore. I didn't realize you're a union don't cuss anymore. That's you're right. So there's things that are supernatural that I didn't realize, but it's also a process as we go along. And the old Lexville tries to pop his

Starting point is 00:26:36 head up now and then there's a series as soon as we battle as a believer is the worldly world. that's very alluring. We all want to follow the wide path of Bible calls of destruction. And chase after all the worldly things are out there. They can be very alluring. Nice stuff, nice scars, no house, houses, you know, all that. Satan, of course, he's real. And then our own flesh.

Starting point is 00:27:00 That doesn't leave us to take it home to heaven. So we still have the flesh, so we still can be prideful or selfish sometimes. But the Holy Spirit that lives in us that we really, receive upon salvation helps help us write the ship on that so we've got that as our helper so father son the holy spirit so that that's really the main component but then also i feel there's that mental physical the physical staying in shape and doing what you can do and and enjoying that right that ties in with it i can't do what i used to do but i keep my weight like i can only eat like 25% of the calories i used to wow man chris i love to eat i go

Starting point is 00:27:40 oh, you'll lose that big appetite. No. So I have to really start out with, I'm still a carnivore and live all the protein, everything, but I have to, I'll order big, sometimes I'll only part of it and save the rest for later or something. So I have to really adjust, I had to really adjust my nutrition,

Starting point is 00:27:57 because my tablet is way slower now, because I don't have the big muscle suit. That was a big adjustment, but I still want to stay trim and healthy. All my, I mean, the doctors, my doctor's, my blood work, I have, no medications. which what I've been through at my age and my 60s is blows people's minds.

Starting point is 00:28:14 Yeah. I'm on zero meds. Wow. They go, what medication is you on? I go, nothing. And the lady with her glasses, the doctor, I go, you're on no meds. I go, you're on no meds. I go, well, wow, the Lord's been good to you.

Starting point is 00:28:26 I'll go, hallelujah. Wow. And all my blood work, everything's phenomenal. So I'm really, I mean, I have mobility challenges. My health is excellent. I'm thankful for that. I attribute it to eating healthy still, not letting myself get.

Starting point is 00:28:42 If I hate what I wanted to, I'd tell people I'd be like a beach ball. I wouldn't need that wheelchair even to get around. They could just roll me around because I love to eat, man. So I'm a buffalo boy. We grew up on chicken wings and, you know, blue cheese dressing. I was just on the other side of the lake. I'm from Toronto. There you go.

Starting point is 00:28:59 I feel you go. Yeah. Who was the total package? Well, that was a heck of a nickname, Dusty Roads Gaming, the American Dream. I was in the back. He goes, I want you to be the, I want you to be the, I can't do it dusty, but the brains. He was, I want you to be the brains and the brawn and the, and the beauty. Because I want you to have the look, the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and the, the, and the, the look.

Starting point is 00:29:24 And he goes, I, he goes, I want you to be the total package. Baby, you know, so he, he, uh, he came up with that nickname and he came up with the finish to torture rack. Uh, because he thought it showed my body and my abs. It wasn't easy to finish to execute in a lot of guys, but, um, it was, um, he was, It turned out to be a really good finish for me. So, yeah, he said, I want you to just be the total package. And, of course, I had mentoring from nature boy, Rick Flair, on that early on as far as as that persona.

Starting point is 00:29:55 And a lot of people said back then, the old Lex took to that pretty easily as far as thinking he was total package. Eric Bischoff, who had him and I become really good friends. People thought we hate each other, but we love each other now. And Eric Bischoff said, Lex thought he was the, I'll use Carney, she is it. And he said, and he made people believe him. He may not have been the greatest interviewer or worker in the ring. But Lex had a horror about him that he thought his, you know what, didn't stink.

Starting point is 00:30:30 And he goes, that came across on camera and in front of people who said, he believed he was the total package. And I did. For sure. younger siblings have been putting the torture rack because of you? No doubt. No doubt. It's great finish. Hey, still on the 2K game, rated so high because once you're in the rack, man,

Starting point is 00:30:49 there's no getting out. How are you going to get out of it? Outside interference. Right. Yeah. I remember distinctly you slamming Yoko Zuna. Yeah. And it was like, and I'm Canadian, but I remember watching being like, this is the most

Starting point is 00:31:02 American thing I have ever seen. It's the 4th of July. Yeah. You're on the USS Intrepid. There was just so many things about it. It's like, this is Americana right here. There was a great moment for sure. I was actually petrified coming by the time I got the trip

Starting point is 00:31:18 because they flew me on a helicopter, and I only been a helicopter ride once for my life. I'm not a theater of heights or anything. I had this ex-Vietnam combat pilot flying the helicopter in, and we were there with no belts on, nothing in this helicopter with open doors. He was tilting and showing off on the way, and I'm like, I'm holding on for dear life. and then I go to the ring and they threw Bobby at me.

Starting point is 00:31:41 I didn't know Bobby was going to meet me. He was my heel manager as a narcissist. So Bobby comes out to me, and I'm like, hey, Bobby, as I'm walking to the ring with Yokozuna, Bobby goes, Bobby goes, push me. I go, what? He goes, push me, you stupid SOB.

Starting point is 00:31:59 I go, oh, I shoved him because I didn't know Bobby was going to, you know, meet me part way down, like trying to stop me from going to the ring. And, but I got in the ring and I had cobblower boots and I had no footing. So I go, I get nose and nose of yoke and we go nose and nose. We're supposed to be trash talking, but I'm telling Yoko, we can't do it, man. I was panicking.

Starting point is 00:32:20 I got no footing. I got no footing. Yoko actually was a cool as ice Samoan brother. We call him the dancing bear. He was so agile for a guy, 600 pounds. He goes, looks at me, and the nose knows, goes, no problem, brother. he goes, just get a wide stance. He goes, I'll do the rest.

Starting point is 00:32:40 Yeah, so I tell you, you look so excited afterwards. You knew you were going to slam him. I go, well, I was hoping we did a walkthrough, but I'd never slammed him. They didn't want me in the walkthrough to hurt Yoko. I'm like, I call him Yoko. And I go, I go, hurt Yoko. What about me?

Starting point is 00:32:56 I'm going to get double hernia trying to slam the guy. But we did it live first time in that ring, so I was really nervous with no footing. Yoko just pushed himself around me. He still, I had to help turn him. And that ain't easy. Yeah. So I played a part, but I tell people, I was so excited afterwards,

Starting point is 00:33:15 even though I knew I was supposed to slam him because I was so happy it came off. I go, Yoko basically slammed himself. He was that agile. Did you? He got on me and flipped himself off of me by getting a wide stance. Well, he runs off the turnbuckle, gets the momentum. If you watch him, watch him, put his hand on me, and turn him. start to turn himself and everything.

Starting point is 00:33:35 He's unbelievable athlete. Did you... One of the best big men ever. He doesn't get credit for that. One of the best big men ever. Did you not think it was possible even leading up to it? Like, cowboy boots aside. I thought if I had footing.

Starting point is 00:33:46 I was freaky strong. Sting called me Herman Munster. But for my feet of strength in the gym. So I looked like a body, but I was strong. So I trained with a world-class power left named Don Rineau. He was a world record holder for like 10 years in high school and college for football. So I was like, I always had that tend to live. ligament. So for a guy, it looked like a body, but I was, I was really, really strong in the

Starting point is 00:34:08 weight room. Is there a path? I had some big lifts. Is there a path in your life where you could have ended up being an NFL star? You know, I, I went out of college early. I kicked out of Miami. That's a whole other story. How did you get kicked out of the U back then? I managed my roller coaster life. Nobody gets kicked out of the war. No, I did. And I nickel-nigned him to death. and my behavior. And I went early pro 19 up in Canada. Back then, you had to wait to your class graduated from the NFL. I would have to wait two years with no football, so I went up to Canada.

Starting point is 00:34:44 I made the team, which was a miracle. I think I was the youngest Canadian at that point ever, American football player. Because I didn't know there's only 15 Americans per team. Only a couple at your position. So I was like, oh, my gosh. I made the team. And I ended up playing a great cup, my rookie year. Wow.

Starting point is 00:35:01 Yeah. Warren Moon was the quarterback, and I had been Eskimos, we lost, but I got to playing a Great Cup. Wow. Yeah. Is there a path from there where you could end up being, it was the Packers, right? I went to the Packers, got injured, and then USFL came about out in the Green Bay was crazy cold, even from a Buffalo boy. The temperatures are way colder than Buffalo. Buffalo gets the snow, but Green Bay was, and my rights were owned because I went to Miami by the Tampa, Buck in a year.

Starting point is 00:35:29 so I, every always called me to negotiator. I called Tampa and I got, I asked Mark Star if I could be released. And because I felt like maybe I had other opportunities better elsewhere. He was such a nice guy. And I went, I went down and signed with the Tampa Bay Bandas. I had the ball coach Steve Spurrier there. Then I got traded to the Memphis showboats with Pepper Rogers, which are such fun coaches that played for.

Starting point is 00:35:57 But then after that, when I was in Memphis, that's where I got interested in wrestling. I didn't grow up watching wrestling. And in Memphis is a rassling town, man. Jerry the King Loller, and what a history there. Everybody's ever wrestled has gone through there. And everywhere I went there, I thought I was a pro wrestler because I always had the physique.

Starting point is 00:36:16 The pro football players in the locker room, I said, Lex, what are you doing playing football with that body you have? You should be in movies or in pro wrestling or something. You don't even look like a football player. So I looked into pro wrestling in the offseason. After Memphis, every thought I was a wrestler, while I might as well look into it.

Starting point is 00:36:35 I walked in the office at championship wrestling in Florida. I was living in Tampa still from my time with the bandits down there, and it took one look at me, introduced me to Hero Matsuda, who trained Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff, Hul Kogan. Matsuda took a liking to me. I was in the ring four months later and never went back to football. So could I maybe played on and had a long football career? Yes, but it worked out a lot better with the wrestling.

Starting point is 00:36:56 But I'm so fascinated in life. Which is crazy, right? It's so crazy. I'm fascinated when this thing happens that leads to this thing. If you don't get injured, you keep playing football likely, right? Maybe you find wrestling later, but it's interesting. I don't think I ever want to wrestle because I didn't grow up watching wrestling. Even when I wrestled, I was a wrestler who really didn't like wrestling, but I wrestled.

Starting point is 00:37:18 I thought wrestling fans were out of their minds. I've come to love them. They're so fanatical. and we're like a family when I had a point in my life when I thought I was unlovable they showed me love so I mean we're wrestling fans are special

Starting point is 00:37:32 but at the time I wrestled I used to try to almost avoid him and coming through the back of the hotels and so I'd have to walk through the lobby because they were so they were all right after you and I thought these fans are crazy but they're crazy good so yeah so I learned

Starting point is 00:37:48 and now I'm a wrestling fan I like to watch watch it I like to watch the paper views in some of the shows. So I went from being a restaurant who wasn't a fan to a retired restaurant who is now a fan. Yeah. Yeah. After slamming Yoko, you go on the Lex Express. Did you enjoy being on the Lex Express? You know, they portrayed it a little bit. My family was upset on the A&E special. They made it look like I didn't enjoy myself. We had a great time on that tour. It was judiciously edited by Bruce Pissure to make it look like Lex wasn't the guy and he'd have a good time. They took

Starting point is 00:38:23 excerpts on that A&E and made it look like I was healing on people during the tour. And I wasn't upside. I go, they're just spicing it up. I said, you know, they're just throwing some stuff in there to tell their story. So it didn't bother me at all that they put

Starting point is 00:38:39 that stuff in there. Like they would, for instance, they would show me like acting like I didn't get a suite at the hotel and I was making a big sting desk. I was joking around with the camera guys and the desk people. They made it look like on the A&E, but I you could make it, you could portray it so that I was throwing a hissie fit because I didn't get a

Starting point is 00:38:57 suite at the hotel, which was not what happened, but that's what it looked like on the A&E. But I was laughing. I thought it was funny. So, yeah, but it was, they actually did a really good job on that. What do you think your legacy in the ring is? Well, I don't know. I think, you know, I feel like I had a 15-year really active. 86-01. I figured it out one time. I used to run out wrestling matches every year.

Starting point is 00:39:26 My contract was 275. 275 matches? A year. And I used to run out by November. They'd added more events. So I wrestled over 300 matches a year times 15. That's almost 5,000 matches.

Starting point is 00:39:43 And I guess my... You wouldn't know looking at me now, caught up with me. maybe, but I was very durable. People don't realize that part of the reason I got switched back and forth so much was Eric Bischoff said this as well. I always knew Lex could handle being a top heel or like a top five baby face. I knew he could walk that line and stay authentic with the fans. It might not have been best for his career long term, Eric said, switching back and forth.

Starting point is 00:40:14 Because everybody's like, oh, here goes Lex again. He goes, but you could be an arrogant heel. or a confident baby face. He goes, you could pull it off. That's a rare thing. Most guys are either a really good heel or a really good baby face. He goes, you could almost walk the line. So whenever we got an injury to one of our top five,

Starting point is 00:40:30 he goes to baby face, they would switch me. If you look back in time, like when Sting got hurt at one time really bad with his knee, they switched me baby face in my match with flare. And I kind of took Sting spot as a top baby face. So they were always moving back and forth. So I guess versatility, I guess I was like a, I think Eric put it.

Starting point is 00:40:51 I was like a utility all-star. They could put me wherever they needed me to be, and I could still perform for the company. He said that made you a very valuable asset for us because you never got hurt. Yeah. I went, I missed a few matches with torn bicep tendon. Right at the very end, I missed like three months,

Starting point is 00:41:09 but I never missed a match for almost 15 years. I think another part of your legacy is just the way you looked, like especially during that era. Well, there's been a lot of good physiques. Atlas back in the day. A warrior during that time as well. Yeah. But the way.

Starting point is 00:41:24 They maintained it for 15 years. Right. Yeah, that was, wasn't easy. I was to say to myself, did you like, you know, being that? I go, well, I love being looking that way, but it was a high maintenance persona. I go, my body was my costumes.

Starting point is 00:41:39 I had to stay tan, work out, eat right. I go, sometimes I wish I'd done the, like the, maybe been the pizza man, walked to the ring with a, at the pizza box, eating pizza and with torn up clothes or something, I go, it would have been a lot easier. I go, when we travel, we'd fly to a different city back then every day. And all the other guys to go to hotel and sleep

Starting point is 00:41:59 until they went down to the building, most of the guys. Stadden brothers and Sting and I would travel a lot in WCW. We'd have to rush to the gym and get a tan and then go almost right to the building every day. So it was a high-maintenance type of persona, you know? So, but I guess that's, I guess that's part of my legacy of maintaining for 15 years, kind of a wrestling terms, a world-class physique. Body guy.

Starting point is 00:42:29 Yeah. That's the wrestling. Absolutely. You're a body guy. So yeah, I'm pretty proud of that. Yeah. Sure, yeah. How did you?

Starting point is 00:42:35 So durability and, you know, staying in top shape for 15 years. Never, you, you, I dare some of you find in the 15 years where I looked really bad. It's true. Even when I was evince when we were drug tests. like sometimes five nights in a row. I was clean the whole time. I was with WWE. I lost about 20 pounds, but I still looked very fit.

Starting point is 00:42:54 I don't think people believe that. Like that... Yeah. Oh, we were legitimately tested. I was clean the whole time. What year, what span of time would that be? Oh, I was there, what, 93, 94, 95? If you look closely, I was down to about 245 pounds.

Starting point is 00:43:08 I was using 265 to 7. Oh, wow. I was about 20 pounds less muscle, but on camera when you're lean, you almost look bigger. bigger if you look at like Eddie Guerrero. I don't know what he weighed, but he didn't weigh a lot. But when he got really ripped, you looked big.

Starting point is 00:43:24 He also had a bicep vein that looked like a snake in his arm. Well, when you're ripped and you're lean, you look bigger on camera. So at WGV when I was cleaning the whole time I was there, something who wouldn't believe what I was. And because when I was in high school, man, I was, I was built. I mean, once again, I give God the credit. Now, God gave me great genetics. So when I started lifting weights in high school, heck, I was benched 400 pounds within like a couple months.

Starting point is 00:43:51 Wow. I never touched the weight. So, I mean, I was, I had, God gave me that gift of having that type of physique even without any kind of PEDs at the time. So clean in WWE, but not clean in WCW? No, I was on some PEDs then. You both before and after. Now towards the end of my career, I switched over from, like, you can see I was huge, the World War is that era. of wrestling was more the, like the, uh, testosterone and, and dying a ball and whatever.

Starting point is 00:44:25 And then towards the, uh, then I was clean obviously with WWE. And then towards the end that, uh, the baseball players and all then brought in the little bit of the growth and test. Yeah. Growth hormone. So really, the last few years of my career, I think maybe I looked my best was on a basic what you'd call like a, for older guys, I'm an older guy now, but a lot of older guys take a little bit of testosterone and growth hormone.

Starting point is 00:44:48 Like TRT. Right. Testosterol. And I was on a shot of test a week and a little bit of growth hormone towards the end there. And very little. Basically like a medicinal dosage of that. So it's like you had incredible genetics. And then it's a little bit more after that.

Starting point is 00:45:06 And a lot of hard work and eating right and all that for sure. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. How did you nail the timing for you and Brett to both hit the ground, at the same time in the 94 Royal Rumble. Brett tries to credit me. I credit Brett.

Starting point is 00:45:21 All I had to do, really, it was Brett, the excellence of execution. Because all I had to do was catch him and go backwards over top rope, which is not fun. I didn't do a lot of backwards over the top rope kind of stuff. I trusted Brett because he had to tuck my head and everything because when you go backwards on top rope, you got to, you know, for safety, tuck your head and everything. So Brett cross-bodied me and took us out. and then man he spider-monkeyed me man he pulled me in and put my head in and they said Vince didn't normally just Vince jumped out of his chair in the back because we walked through it

Starting point is 00:45:56 however we're going to do it bang bang bang bang cross body out and Vince goes try to hit the floor at the same time we'll touch it up afterwards say you both hit at the same time they even did it in slow mo what a miracle and you couldn't tell in the slow motion who hit first but Brett pulled me in so tight and the way he hit we hit the apron with me going backwards and from there to the floor

Starting point is 00:46:21 Brett just got us both like level and even we both hit at the exact same time wow yeah we probably could have done it a thousand times after that when I got it just perfect timing that's what Vince like jumped out of his chair wow oh my gosh

Starting point is 00:46:34 they nailed it what was the original plan if you've got co-winners of the Royal Rumble what were they originally planning to do there wasn't really because like even SummerSlam They go, what a lame finish. You didn't beat Yoko.

Starting point is 00:46:45 After that big tour, I go, that was never the plan. Vince was such a fan of the garden. That was his dad's place. That was his place. He always stood at the curtain watching the matches of the garden, see the response to the crowd towards new talent. The garden was, they don't call it the mecca for nothing. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:02 And that was Vince's place and his dad's place. So Vince and I had a very good relationship. And he said, if I put the belt on you, it'll be at the garden. at WrestleMania 10. That's going to be a big pay-per-view. And if I do, because I'm not saying you are. And I go, well, I'm not asking you to promise me anything.

Starting point is 00:47:20 He goes, well, I'm not. So I was never promised the belt. And if it wasn't going to go on, was going to WrestleMania 10. He went with Brett, which is a great choice. Brett's a great champion. We had that, you know, going Brett and now arrest him for a title at WrestleMania 10.

Starting point is 00:47:34 But I didn't felt guilted or I'd been lied to it all because they never told me I was going to be the champion. And I always, once again, I don't go up to Eric, like Lex, I always thought he was the, you know what, I didn't have a problem

Starting point is 00:47:47 with win or losing or I always felt no matter what I could, I could, even when I went, walked out first on the Monday Night Wars, went from WWE, WWF the time,

Starting point is 00:47:58 back, Eric lowballed me and offered me almost nothing. I said, you know what? I'll come in and I'll become a big star for him and he'll take care of me,

Starting point is 00:48:07 which Eric did. Wow. So I never, once again, what's the old Lex? I never lacked confidence. That was part, I guess, part of my persona. You were a world champion in WCW,

Starting point is 00:48:18 but it feels like there were so many opportunities for you to do it in WWE, but it just didn't happen. Well, people say Vince wanted to be the next Hulk Hogan, which also was not Vince's plan. Vince always knew there was only going to be wasn't Hulk Hogan. Sure.

Starting point is 00:48:32 He always wanted a merchandise selling baby face seen it became the guy. But Vince always knew that the red and yellow and, you know, see your prayers and take your vitamins and all that. Pythons, there's only going to be one Hulk Hogan. He didn't want me to be another Hulk Hogan knockoff. He wanted to be Lex Lugar, the baby face.

Starting point is 00:48:54 Vince was actually a very patriotic kind of guy. He wanted me to be the red, white, and blue kind of champion and sell a bunch of merch. He ended up going with Brett as the world champion, but I always felt that if I'd stayed at WB, I was determined that I was in a show that I, that I was in and get another shot at the title someday and be there a world champion.

Starting point is 00:49:15 It just feels like... I won that win the eagle, man. That's a beautiful belt. I was going to go after that. So if I stayed there, and Vince and I were trying to work it out. When I went to... That was a last-minute thing

Starting point is 00:49:26 between Sting and Eric Bischoff that came out on a random phone call with Sting because of our friendship, that I wasn't under contract anymore. That we were trying to work it out on a handshake. I was going to stay at WWB. I had no plan on leaving. So when that was huge you walk out on the very first nitro

Starting point is 00:49:43 Well we had no idea though right They kept their big secret and all that But we had no idea in nitro And the money at war is going to get so big I would sting to me we're gonna do Monday night show I'm like good luck with that up against raw That was my attitude but okay There was always like a distant second right

Starting point is 00:50:01 Kind of at that point yeah We try harder but we're number two You know the old car rental ads And stuff back of the day So, yeah, we didn't know. We had no idea. It was going to actually overtake them in ratings and stuff. My God.

Starting point is 00:50:14 Who would have thunk? So I had no idea that moment when I walked out there, they had to actually pull me off the tape. Tapes we had already done for the shows for WWV. Wow. Yeah. And I was very uncomfortable because of my good relationship with events, I couldn't tell him I was going to do it.

Starting point is 00:50:29 That was Eric's one stipulation. I went home with my wife. I go, man, Peg, he wants me to leave, but Eric wants me to give no notice. show up on Nitro. I go, that's gonna, Vince is gonna, I heard rumors and Vince was watching with his wife. And she kind of like, Linda turned to him,

Starting point is 00:50:47 never said anything to him like, if you ever bring that guy back. Because Vince always would forgive and bring guys back, but people would have thought it was impossible. I'm not sure if that's true, but I heard, I heard that rumor. Linda was almost like angry with me that, because Vince and I had such a good relationship,

Starting point is 00:51:03 I didn't even give notice. I walked out of Nitro. Did you ever hear from Vince again? Oh, yeah, We saw it until the air party a year later. He shook my hand and smiled and we were cool. He just knew it was business. Yeah, business, yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:13 It's not like you got a phone call the next, that Tuesday going, what the hell? What are you doing, Lex? No, he didn't call me. There was definitely some hurt there. Sure. But I saw me a year later and we were good. So if you don't win the title in WWE,

Starting point is 00:51:27 what did it mean to win it in WCW? I didn't realize the one I didn't get at SummerSlam. They thought, man, they should have at least put it on you at SummerSlam. Well, you celebrated like you wanted? build up. Yeah. And then put it back on Yoko if they wanted to win it.

Starting point is 00:51:40 Yeah. Turn it back a week later even on Nitro and get heat on Yoko again because he was doing a thing with Taker, which was put the belt back on him, have him have his rum a taker, then do what you want at WrestleMania 10. But you need to get a result. I get that, you know, but obviously still worked out for me. I had a pretty good career after that. A lot of people like the promoter was with me on the Lest Express.

Starting point is 00:52:03 He was a Hollywood guy. They hired. He goes, you're not winning. the belt at Somerslam? I thought, no. He had no wrestling. I don't know anything about wrestling, but your career is over. I was like, well, gee, thanks a lot. I sure hope not.

Starting point is 00:52:20 You don't win that. He goes, after this buildup, he goes, you're done. So, fortunately, I wasn't. The fans gave me a second chance. What did it mean to win the world championship in WCW? That was crazy. They didn't tell me to right before I went to the ring. They didn't tell you the finish?

Starting point is 00:52:35 Back then, the phones and everything and the internet was hidden. They didn't want anybody to know. Eric Bischoff and Hogan took me inside right before I was almost ready to go to the ring. They go, hey, we're switching the belt. What are we talking about? Switching the belt tonight.

Starting point is 00:52:49 On me? With Hogan? I go, Hogan's that put me over on a national TV, not like a pay-per-view, but a sudden on like a live show on TV. Well, it's a 100th night drill. Because you guys have been left laying for like, I think he said, 63 straight weeks.

Starting point is 00:53:05 We need to throw the fans a little bone. He said, we're going to put the title on you tonight. You go, as you're red hot. Because things come out of sitting, but you're there every week, and the fans are with you. I was like, wow, because they had me, like, rack all the other NWO guys before that, like, big show, big show everybody. So you're red hot, man, we're going to, we're going to show them a little bone. Our ultimate goal will be sting. You're going to put it back the following week on, on Hogan at the Sturgis show.

Starting point is 00:53:33 I go, we're going to put the bell on you tonight. I said, you got me, kid. And Peewee, the referee thing, like, signaling for the belt. He was like, he was looking at me like, he was the same as me. We were like, really? I go, what's the finish? You go, torture rack. I go, he's going to just take the rack.

Starting point is 00:53:50 Just submit, he goes. Hogan didn't put a lot of people over. Submit to my, he had me kick out of his finish during the match too. Yeah. If you notice, he had me kick out of his finish. Yeah. Big leg. Wow.

Starting point is 00:54:06 Yeah. put me over big time. We always got along really good. We still do. Holkster and I. That was huge. They let Hogan pick who we wanted to work with. He picked me.

Starting point is 00:54:16 Wow. That was a massive respect from him for me. And we didn't hit it off because I went to nose and nos on the Monday thing the first night. I went home with someone probably going to get fired. My wife goes, what do you mean? I go, I got nose to the Hogan. We went to a commercial break.

Starting point is 00:54:33 And I go, I broke character and smiled at him. I had never been around Hogan before. Really, especially in the ring. He looked at me, brother. Hogan looked at me and goes, wipe that smile off your face or I'll knock it off. I'm like, we're in commercial break. He goes, I don't care.

Starting point is 00:54:52 Wipe that, whoever break character. Just wipe that smile off your face right now. I'll knock it off. I tried to chase after him down the hall afterwards. He wouldn't talk to me. Wow. I went up to him the next week before he wrestled on TV. I said, man, I'm so sorry that I thought I was being unprofessional.

Starting point is 00:55:11 I go, I knew we were on commercial break and I go, I was sort of like being a heel like smirk and I go, you were 100% right? And please accept my apology. After that, we were totally cool. Except to my apology, we're always cool with each other. How were you not part of WWE after WCW got bought out? I was under contract. But almost my downfall. From the penthouse to the outhouse to the jailhouse.

Starting point is 00:55:37 I had too much time and money in my hands, Chris. I had almost three years of guaranteed contract left with AOLT time and Warren for a lot of money. And Vince couldn't touch me. But could you not? I would have had to have like given up three years of guaranteed money. Could you not have done what Goldberg or Steiner did and come over later on? Yeah, but after that, everything happened.

Starting point is 00:55:57 I got messed up on the wine women and song deal and, uh, I had too much time and money on my hands and got messed up on drugs. and alcohol. At a period, I was a complete train wreck, a tragic passing of Elizabeth, but obviously I,

Starting point is 00:56:15 people go, well, he killed Elizabeth. Well, I didn't kill her, but was I a contributing factor to the lifestyle I was living and her being around me all time and she overdosed?

Starting point is 00:56:27 Absolutely. You take responsibility? Absolutely. For what happened to her? Sure. There's always collateral damage to lifestyles like that, and she was part of it.

Starting point is 00:56:34 So absolutely. Is it that you were part of the, the level that you were partying at and she's so much smaller than you? Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Was that the rock bottom moment for you? You think it was, but that led me to more depression where I felt completely unlovable. I was never going to be able to be part of wrestling again after that happened.

Starting point is 00:56:57 Instead of, I hate to admit who I was back then, instead of being so grieving over loss of Liz, I was grieving of what this is. is going to do to me in my career almost more so. I hate to admit back then, that while I'm done in wrestling, and my fitness nutrition quest after wrestling, I was going to be a big fitness nutrition guy, I had my own nutrition company, and actually I said, well, no one's going to want that for me now.

Starting point is 00:57:23 So I wanted a massive depression, darkness, did more drugs, more alcohol. It wasn't until at that point where I dug such a deep, dark hole, I was so I could somehow work or be smart enough to get out of it and I knew I was at the bottom of a pond man with no light and there was no way to the top

Starting point is 00:57:43 and I was drowning in darkness and that's when I turned that's when I turn to God have you been able to I knew there's no way I could get out of this so go God if you're if you're really real you're gonna have to get me out of this because I'm done. Have you been able to forgive yourself

Starting point is 00:57:59 for that? Oh absolutely as a believer um my met one of my main mentors dr frady was my earthly spiritual dad he's not was not with us anymore noticed i was when i first got said i i'm not a crier man my dad my dad taught my brother and i not to be criers old school you know he he'd used the belt on us when we we messed up if we cried too much my dad would say you keep on crying i'll keep on hitting you so um back in the day if i had one of the day if i had one One tear cut in my face, I was bawling inside. I was kind of raised not to cry and show emotion.

Starting point is 00:58:38 And when I got saved, I had a new tender heart. I was, man, I was bawling and crying about everything. And I'm like, man, I'm a mess. I'm like, oh, mushy, I go, what's wrong with me? And he noticed it too, and he goes, Lex, you've got to forgive yourself. I was looking back at my past and I had such regret, remorse, and what kind of awful person I was. He goes, if you stay in that mode, he goes,

Starting point is 00:59:06 you're going to be useless to God's planning a person to the kingdom. He goes, he's forgiven you. You've been forgiven in full at the cross. He goes, you're denigrating God if you don't forgive yourself, because he did that for you because he loves you that much and has a plan and purpose for your life. And if you stay where you're at now, you'll be useless to the kingdom.

Starting point is 00:59:25 What kind of witness were you to do? be for him if you're if you're always in regret and remorse because he's forgiven you got to forgive yourself else you'll be useless to the kingdom man i need to hear that that that really helped me move forward with my life in a positive positive way from there on out instead of think about all the horrible bad stuff i did in the past and dwelling once again on that rear view mirror right the enemy wants us to look in that rear view mirror all the time and bring it up and remind us of what mistakes we've made and what we've done wrong, what we've done bad, he wants us to live in that so that we can't move forward with our lives

Starting point is 00:59:59 where I believe God wants us to go. There's still a lot of fans that hold that against you. No doubt. And I totally understand. And I do. Yeah. Where's your grace and forgiveness? And a lot of people make mistakes in life.

Starting point is 01:00:13 I get it. She was a beloved character, Liz. And I'll always be tied as part of what happened with her. and I get that I have haters out there and I understand. I understand where they're coming from. I get it. With all of that that happened

Starting point is 01:00:30 in that phase of your life, what was your relationship like with WWE? You know what? Vince Colin asked me if I was doing okay and a lot of people checked up on me. This is after Elizabeth? Yeah. Showed me some love.

Starting point is 01:00:44 I didn't feel very lovable, but a lot of the guys checked in with me to see if I was okay. Sting, of course, most of all. He never gave up on me, man. He always held out that. He was kind of my rock when I was at my lowest. He called me and the voice message.

Starting point is 01:01:00 He knew I wouldn't answer the phone. I was in such a dark place. I wouldn't even answer the phone. My friends or family. I was so depressed about myself, me, myself and I. People ask, what's the difference? I go, well, now I have the joy formula in my life, the acronym. But what's the joy formula, the J-O-Y?

Starting point is 01:01:15 Jesus, others, and then you. Back then it was me, myself, and I, when I was so focused on myself, I go, I was in a dark place. A really dark place. I was so obsessed with me, myself, or not. So that shift away from ourselves, like, when you're depressed even as a believer, we get depressed too.

Starting point is 01:01:33 How do you do that? Think of something to be thankful for. Think of what kind of you to help somebody else. Talk about DDP. DDP thrives on helping other people. It's hard to be depressed, man. It's positively page. It's hard to be depressed if you're thinking,

Starting point is 01:01:47 what can I do to help somebody else? Instead of obsessing on myself. Yeah. Right. What's your relationship with WWE now? Awesome. I'm on a Legends program. So you're officially on the Legisium?

Starting point is 01:01:58 Oh, yeah. I've been on the Legends program. People don't know over 10 years. Yeah, I don't think people know that. I'm into my third, just into my third five year or now. Congratulations. Quietly. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:02:06 I think it's a great program. I think you put some 2K games, action figures. You go to signings and people line up with like travel luggage, rollaways and wagons and they bring out still bring out new action figures at walmart and target and all that pops all the stuff on us it's crazy and the guys from our generation watching by that and they bring their sons up they watch a new generation at the signings that we do at like russomania they have us come in do off the fan interactive stuff and they line up with all our merch they call it our our figures have you sign them i have guys i was in uk this past weekend i

Starting point is 01:02:44 a guy come out to me, a couple guys crying. They had posters on the wall from, or something of me, they wanted me to sign. They kept all these years and they have it like all wrapped up and protected. And I've had this up my wall since I was a little kid. They're like 40-something years old now. And they go, I want you to sign this for me. Because you were like, you and Sting were like father figures from me.

Starting point is 01:03:06 When I was young, I didn't have a dad. And they start crying at the table, man, these big, like, guys. I mean, I had a job. When I was in jail, one of my lowest, I had a tattooed-up, big jail guard started crying because he said my grandfather. He was like my father because I never had a father. He goes, you were his favorite. He started sharing him.

Starting point is 01:03:28 He started crying. So that made me start thinking, these wrestling fans are special. When I, the first time I got around resting fans was- What are you think of you're in jail at this point? It's the lowest moment. And people are telling you how great you are. I didn't get it yet. I wasn't a believer yet.

Starting point is 01:03:42 What, Pastor Steve, who led me to the Lord, still a huge part of my life. Pastor Steve, the jail chaplain that led me to the Lord in an hotel room, April 23rd of 06. He, before that, he used to try to do relationship tests. He knew if you tried to share the gospel with me right away. I was like, an atheist slash agnostic. I'd give him the heisman, like, save it, you know.

Starting point is 01:04:04 Don't give me that religious stuff. Because when Sting got saved back in 98, I thought I'd lost my best friend. I was so mad at him. So he didn't want to do what I wanted. He didn't want to go clubbing anymore. He didn't want to go womanizing anymore. He didn't want to drink or do any drugs. He was, he went the whole other direction.

Starting point is 01:04:21 I thought I'd lost my best friend. The only time in our friendship, there was a, on my part, a wedge, I was angry with him. I thought he'd become like a religious fanatic. I didn't understand it. Didn't grow up with religion in my life. So I was like an atheist slash agnostic. And so Pastor Steve knew God gave him the discernment. through the Holy Spirit, I believe,

Starting point is 01:04:46 not to try to share the gospel. When I met him in jail, I used to sneak me peanut butter and stuff. It was a jail chapel. I go, this guy, this religious guy, he ain't so bad,

Starting point is 01:04:55 because I was starving in there. I still was the Big Lex, right? Yeah. On 2000 jail carers day, bread and peanut butter, you know, right? I was like, so,

Starting point is 01:05:04 that's why I saw I was in a penthouse, the outhouse, the jailhouse, I've been through it all. I go, my roller coaster life. And so, he used to see me peanut butter

Starting point is 01:05:15 since I got the liking him. He didn't say, talk any religion with me. He talked sports and about his life a little bit and stuff like that. And he tracked me down when we got out. And he wanted me say he wanted me to train him

Starting point is 01:05:30 in the gym. I go, the old Lex, I'm still the old Lex, right? I'm like, you want me to train you? I'm going, I'm not a personal trainer. I'm Lex Lueger. I don't train people. What do you think I'm a trainer? I'm lax, total package. So he showed up to gym, he found, I didn't tell him where I was at.

Starting point is 01:05:50 He trapped me out every gym in Atlanta, which is, Atlanta's got a lot of gyms. Yeah. I was coming out with my drug dealer to do a buy. I bump into Pastor Tee, it was lax. Remember, I wanted you to train me? I was like, sure, why don't you just go ahead and show up? Jim, I'd have him do lunges and squats. I was going to make him so sore, the elliptical.

Starting point is 01:06:11 because he hadn't worked out. He was a high school athlete, but he was out of shape. I couldn't chase him off. He would take me to Walmart on the way to have lunch together afterwards all the time, I asked me to go in.

Starting point is 01:06:22 My point is, I'm like, I'm good. I asked me Lex, he never come into Walmart with me. I go, I don't do Walmart, Steve. That's where poor people shop. That's who I was. I've never been in a Walmart, Steve.

Starting point is 01:06:39 That's where poor people show. I love Walmart now. Targeet. But he took me. And finally, I just, I said, all right, I'll go in with you. Man, after all that happened, Elizabeth, everything, those fans just made me feel loved when I was, I felt totally unlovable at that point.

Starting point is 01:06:59 They lavished me. It's so good to see you, Lex. See, out again. I got sworn in that Walmart by wrestling fans. That's where our peeps are, man. Walmart's, you know? And Steve had the discernment. God gave him a sermon to know that.

Starting point is 01:07:13 That was a big part of me, you know, of me realizing, well, maybe my life's not over, you know. So if you've got a great relationship with WWE, you're on your third Legends deal, how are you not in the Hall of Fame yet? Well, people say that. Good things come to those who wait. Always hopeful. If not, I still feel I had a great career. There's a lot of deserving guys other than me.

Starting point is 01:07:35 You still aren't in as well. So, yeah, it would be a huge honor, though, if and when it happens. I feel like it's right around the corner, especially. especially with the new regime here. Is it the falling out with Vince? Is that why you weren't in earlier? You know, I don't know what criteria they do, because there's a lot of other guys, too,

Starting point is 01:07:51 that should have been in. Sure. I don't know if it was me personally or anything with Vince at all. I'm not sure about that. Only they can answer that. But there was a point in time when you didn't have a great relationship

Starting point is 01:08:02 with WWE, and now you do. What changed? I think they waited and saw that I think they observed. that I was a different guy now. And I felt that they learned to maybe trust who I was. That just wasn't some temporary thing that this is the new Lexon. This is direction he's headed with his life.

Starting point is 01:08:27 So I'm thankful. They've been a real blessing me in every way, including financial. You know, they give them in the merch out of it, and you send you the guys called mailbox money. Yeah. Is it monthly, quarterly? Quarterly, yeah. What makes the most money? Is it being in a video game?

Starting point is 01:08:41 Is it an action figure? Is it a T-shirt? mind. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, wow. So I'm very, I'm very thankful for them welcoming back into the family and making

Starting point is 01:08:52 a part of WD. Obviously, the Hall of Fame would be the cherry on top, the whipped cream and cherry on top, for sure. If I never get in the Hall of Fame, I feel, I feel like I had a great career. That won't change it. But it would obviously be a huge honor to be like definitely the crem to the crem to the crem, for sure. It just feels like, no doubt.

Starting point is 01:09:12 It just feels long overdue. former world champion, former Royal Rumble winner, the career that you had, the characters that you played, the moments that you created. And you, it's been, what, 20 years since you wrestled a match? It is, yeah. It's long overdue. Well, thank you, Chris. I appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:09:31 What's your outlook on life now? It's changed a lot. We've talked a lot about who you were and also who you are now. What's your outlook on life now? Man, I'm just loving life, Chris. Man, I wake up every day, and I thank God for the breath of my lungs and the beat of my heart. I do my devotionals and spend my time with him first, give my utmost for his highest one of my favorite devotionals in the morning by Oswald Chambers. And I dedicate the day to him.

Starting point is 01:10:00 And, I'm out the door, man, roaring to the gym and doing stuff. And I'm just dialing every day. I love it. I'm loving life and thinking what I can do. you to help other people. And it's, it's, uh, very rewarding. I'm very thankful. There may be a lot of people watching this or listening to this that are at their lowest

Starting point is 01:10:20 point. Yeah. What do you say to them? How can they get out of that? Get to where you're at now. Don't ever give up, man. There's always hope. I tell you, hang on to something.

Starting point is 01:10:31 Find something in your life. You can be thankful. Hang on to that strand and, and, uh, don't ever give up hope because I go. If there's hope for me where I was at, I was in dark, but there's, is hope for you, for sure. What about someone who may have had the same diagnosis as you, someone who was told that they couldn't walk again or they couldn't move their limbs again? What do you say to them?

Starting point is 01:10:54 Let's focus on what we can do. Even if I was paralyzed from neck down, hadn't got the kind of function that I have. I'm a very high-functioning quadriplegic. I'm very thankful for. I'm rare. But even if I hadn't done that, I was still, I could have moved my head and shoulders. they've got things you can give you to help you have a better quality life. Focus on what you can do, what you still can enjoy and what you can still accomplish.

Starting point is 01:11:19 I have young men that I still work with and mentor from Shepard that can only move their head. And they have to use a blow thing for everything. But they're creative. They write. They try to do artwork and stuff on computers with their mouth. And, I mean, they're working on what they got. When did you realize it was possible? You could only move your head for a little while, right?

Starting point is 01:11:43 Was it, could you barely move a finger or barely move a toe? Yeah, I was totally paralyzed other than my head and shoulders. When did it? What was the first thing that shifted? Was the first thing that? My right index finger. It's the first thing that moved below the neck, yeah. Was that just a twitch or was that real?

Starting point is 01:11:59 Then my one toe started moving a little bit. So it didn't happen all at once. It started coming back slowly or a period of months. I started getting some function. Oh, you might be getting a little function there, kid, you know? I wasn't a kid, but so Dr. Billsky could, hey, kid, you're getting a little function now. Let's see where that goes. They say using the first two years after spinal cordon degrees like that, you're going to get

Starting point is 01:12:22 pretty much a level of function you're capable of, either none or some or, in my case, quite a bit, fortunately, which I'm very blessed for that. But, yeah. Where are you at with DDP now? You were filming some things behind the scenes here? Steve and the team with DDPY is, man, he's got an army. He does. I was in the UK, he had all kind of DDPY people coming up.

Starting point is 01:12:47 He's got a global army of followers that he's helping. Well, how can you not love? How can you not love Dallas? No doubt, man. It's the best. That energy, right? That positive energy. It's the best.

Starting point is 01:12:57 I say, Dallas, you're the ultimate front, man. Seriously. I go, Steve's your guy, but you're the ultimate puts all these great, Steve, you, his partner brings all these great, like he's like a cinema. photographer puts all this great butter bean. He set up these shots here. Yeah. It puts all this stuff together at studio here that we're at right now.

Starting point is 01:13:15 Yeah. So like a world-class studio they have here. But Dallas is, I go, you were the ultimate front, man. So, yeah, I love it, man. I love what he's, and I'm so happy for him. He built this brand-new house on the beach. And he got, like, emotional. I go, man, Dallas, I am so happy.

Starting point is 01:13:31 You got this beautiful place to you and your beautiful wife, Paige, built on the beach. And he got, like, emotional with gratitude. Yeah. it. So, man, I love that. I love this guy. I love the. Yeah, I love that guy too. Absolutely. He's, uh, he's one of a kind. He is, man. I know that it's a big part of your life. It's a big part of mine as well. Just gratitude is the center of my life. And I want to thank you for this conversation. Attitude of gratitude, right? I love it. Gets, gets rid of that negative stuff right away.

Starting point is 01:14:02 Yeah, when you focus on the things you have, rather than focusing on things you don't have, it changes everything. Absolutely. I want to thank you for this. I can't believe it took this long for us to do a conversation. No, thank you. And I'm going to end this with the question I ask everybody, because gratitude is so important to me. What are three things, Lex, that you're grateful for as you sit here right now? The good Lord and my friends and my family.

Starting point is 01:14:26 Yeah, definitely him first, and then my family and my friends. That God's as a place to my life. Wow. Yeah. I'm surrounded by incredible people. Yeah. And this conversation has acted as the best teaser. for whatever is next. I don't know what it is, but whatever's next. We're all, we're all tuned in.

Starting point is 01:14:45 Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it, man. For having me. There's a thrill being in with you. Thank you. No, thank you. All right, my friends. It has been amazing seeing the progress that he's been making with DDP. And I've said it before. I'll say it again. The world is a better place because DDP is in it. And look, I think that an induction into the WWE Hall of Fame for Lex Lugar is long overdue. And hey, the day after we posted the interview with Michelle McCool, she got the news that she was being inducted. So perhaps the same thing will happen here as well. Snap a screenshot and tag us online. Let us know what you thought of this conversation.

Starting point is 01:15:34 He's at genuine Lex Lugar on Twitter. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. and I saw this quote on social media, and I can't stop thinking about it. Like this whole idea of judging other people. I thought a lot about this. The quote is, we judge ourselves by our intentions,

Starting point is 01:15:53 but others by their actions. It's a quote from Stephen Covey. And I think about that all the time. If we only knew the intentions of other people, if we just asked someone, instead of just quickly jumping right to a judgment, I think we'd be in so much of a better plan. So we judge ourselves by our intentions, but others by their behavior.

Starting point is 01:16:15 Just, oh, man, that's powerful. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Ask CVV number 72 tomorrow. If you've got a question for that, leave a comment on Spotify. Send it in on social media using that hashtag AskCV or shoot me an email. CVV at Chris Vanfleet.com.

Starting point is 01:16:34 See you right back here tomorrow for that. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand.

Starting point is 01:16:59 He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.

Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Lex Luger On Possibly Walking Again, Working With DDP, Hall Of Fame, Sting

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