Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Lince Dorado: The Man Behind The Mask

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

Lince Dorado (@lince_dorado) is a professional wrestler known for his time in WWE and MLW. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about how he got started in wrestling, working as a math teacher, the books that have inspired him the most, being a father of 4, Lucha House Party, his release from WWE, luchadors being compared to Rey Mysterio and much more! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blit! And we are back with another audio adventure here on Insight with Chris Van Fleet. That's me. I am CBV, Chris Van Fleet, and let me tell you, we get deep in this one. Try to make my voice real deep as I said that. Deep in this one. There's just so much more to Lincidurado than what you see on TV and what you see in the ring.

And I'm so glad we were able to have this conversation because you see such a different side of him here. If you're not following him on social media, he's at Lindsay underscore Dorado on Instagram, at Luchador LD on Twitter, and you can find me, just my name, at Chris Famfleet. Kyle Joyner, our fan of the week, thank you so much, my man, for leaving this review on Apple Podcasts. He says, this took me forever. I used to love listening to this podcast on Spotify. I started listening probably around 2019 when it first started, but I've been behind and I have a lot of episodes to catch up on. However, I just got a Mac and now I'm finally able to leave Chris a five-star review like he deserves.

His interview style is so genuine and different from other interviewers out there. Keep up the great work TVV and just know that your shows have helped me through some tough times. That is awfully kind to say, Kyle. Thank you so much for the kind words. Thank you so much for taking the time to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. I read one on every single episode. It's my way to say thank you for being on this journey. Also, my sneaky way to encourage you to leave a review of your own if you happen to be listening on Apple Podcasts.

If you're a Spotify listener like Kyle used to be, I know that a lot of the stats, they tell us that a lot of people are listening on Spotify. So it'd be so helpful if you could click follow on there and also leave a rating. Let's dive into this one. Ladies and gentlemen, Lindsay Dorado. Man, I didn't know if I was going to get the masked version of you or not. I know. I know.

I almost gave you the extremely handsome version of me. I don't know how to handle that. Two handsome guys on this. I think we had to keep the cheek guys away. You already know. You married? Well, how do you decide?

How do you decide when you're going to be the masked version, the luchador, or just you? Honestly, man, anything wrestling related has the mass persona. But if it's not in the ring, it's really me. Like, this is me talking to you. You see me at Ziggy's show. That's me.

That's me. Everything else on like what you've seen on TV, that was like, that had to be me, you know? But now it's me. So I don't really get to decide. Like, it really just happens. For example, I had to apologize to this referee this weekend because, you know, I had my match. the standard match. And I was like, as soon as I get through that curtain, brother, I don't know what's going to happen.

I don't know what I'm going to say. I apologize, but it ain't going to be me. So, and of course, I had to apologize about three or four times in that match because it wasn't me, but it was me. What did you have to apologize for? Well, no, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like I had to apologize. But for so long people, Chris, you know, people have like this idea of what Lindsay is or this luchador is.

So that when I give them something completely different, they're like, Like, what is that? But it's interesting, you know, it's interesting. So I actually started introducing myself as the most entertaining and interesting luchadour and professional wrestling. I like that. You know, you know how it is. We work together at Zickey Dice's Trouble in Paradise, too.

RussellCon. It was WrestleMania weekend. And like your character, if people haven't seen you on the Indies, is so different from who you were in WWA. Well, I mean, it's, it's me. It's not different. It really is me. and we just said it a couple minutes ago,

I had to represent or present a idea of what a luchador was supposed to be. And a couple years in, I decided to take that and really just turn it up, like turn it upside down. Everything a luchador was, I didn't want to do. I didn't want to speak Spanish. I wanted to speak English. I didn't want to, you know, wear tights.

I wore caprice. I just wanted to be different. And I don't, you know, Yeah, you're right. I shouldn't apologize for being different, man. Like, it really is a breath of fresh air just to be me. Yeah. And there's no restrictions. Yeah.

Man, yeah. A fan did that to me. He was like, you're free. And I did the exact same thing. I was like, oh, you're right. I'm free. Like, yeah. It's just, it's a great feeling, bro.

It really is a great thing. A lot of 420 references in your match. I mean, again, that is me, man. I'm not going to lie. I don't drink alcohol. I stopped drinking alcohol about four years ago. I don't take Thailand. I don't take aspirin.

I literally just smoke marijuana. I'm a big advocate of it. It really has helped me psyche. It has helped me anxiety. It makes me creative. I'm not one of those guys who just like to get stone. I like to do a lot of things. I'm not going to lie to you.

Even before this, I was making a pair of trousers, like dress pants, completely, you know, RVDed out of my mind. But they're looking awesome, bro. Like everything I do is, you know, I'm very functional. when I do that stuff. So I'm not condoning it, but I'm just saying, like, for me, it works. Right. And that's the thing.

If it works for you, who cares? Like, it doesn't matter. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I had to do, you know, a little, the 420 reference with the cat, cat nip, you know, how to give it to the catnift. And after the match, there was a little bit of, you know, making the celebrity. So what do you feel like you're able to do now that you're free, that you weren't able to do in

WWA. Honestly, Chris, man, I don't have to run ideas by anybody other than myself. And now I could just like really produce all the content I want. I can sound how I want. I can look how I want. I can present myself how I want to do it. Because like how I just said before, we have this idea what Lucille is or what a luchador is.

And I just don't want to be that. person. I always told Vince, I said, you got something special here between me and Metallic or Dorada where like, we understand the wrestling is not, it doesn't come first here in WW. Because, you know, WW isn't a wrestling company. It's an entertainment movie company. And we understood that. And we, we wanted to do, you know, everything different than Lucha Libre and what they thought Luchadores were. But couldn't do it, dude. Couldn't do it. But now, now I'm like on a weekly, you know, I'm doing the wrestling thing on the weekends. And on the weekdays, I'm either creating content, you know,

wrestling base, but using my wrestling brand to build something else. And to me, it's just content that's entertaining, that will pop me and the boys. And, you know, mostly my kids. So that's it. So you have four kids, right? Hell yeah. I'm a mega Puerto Rican, two boys, two girls. I don't know how you do it.

I'll tell you how I did it, but I don't think we should talk about it. No, birds and the bees talk, yeah. You know, but hey, and I was one of those cats that was like, I'll never, I was wrestling since I was 16. And I was one of those cats, I was like, I'll never have kids, you know, because again, growing up, I knew what it was like to be a kid in a house that wasn't like really full of love. And I didn't think I could muster that or, you know, because I didn't experience that. So I was like, how can I translate that to my kids? And so, yeah, I always said I didn't want kids. and then the last day of graduation of college,

yep, boom. Hey, you're going to be a father. And I was like, oh, well, time to stand up and man up. So, yeah, as you were pretty young dad. And you were on the path of, you know, being a pro wrestler. How did it having kids or your first kid? How did that change? Dude, that was rough, man.

Because like I said, I started when I was 16, four years in. I was 20. I had my first kid graduating college. I was already still wrestling, still traveling, still traveling. And my first daughter was actually probably the hardest because I wasn't with the baby's mom. I wasn't with her mom. And, you know, I just got in another relationship who she had a child with at three years old. So that's why I have four. I really have three biological, but I've raised the other one since she was three. And, you know, she called me dad before any of my kids. But particularly

my first daughter, I was actually going to Japan around the same time. she was supposed to be born. And it was a very rocky, you know, start to me and her mom. And, you know, to add on, hey, I may be going to Japan. It was like another thing. Luckily for me, though, I was able to, you know, be there for the pregnancy, there for the birth of my child, my first child. It was beautiful. I cried, I cried, you know, because I had to leave. Also, I had two days with her until I had to leave to go to Japan and keep that commitment. And, you know, it was very hard because ever since that trip, we have not been able to like rekindle that kind of like daughter-father relationship until recently, you know, actually this week she's actually going to be

coming to stay up my house for a couple of days the first time and I mean, forever, wherever. So it's still an uphill battle. Even now, like you think like being successful or somewhat successful in WWU, you think it would be easy or easier, but it really isn't. I feel like I'm in the same spot I was in before just more of a demand and more of a hustle than, you know, I was 10 years ago or 12 years ago when she was born. Yeah. I feel like there's pros and cons to being a thousand successful in WWE with a mask on.

Like the pros are like the character is over. Then you can live like a normal life, you know, behind the scenes. People don't necessarily recognize you. But it's the con that like you were the one that got that character over and then you don't get to like, you know, get that adulation in the rest of your life. I saw I thought about that too, Chris, man. Like, I've not, I'm not going to lie, before I've wrestled on main event or wrestled on Raw and literally took my mask off and walked around the arena with people in the arena while

the show was happening. And nobody knew who the hell I was. And you would think, like, I was like, oh, man, like, I kind of wish, you know, somebody would recognize me or even at the airport. I wish somebody would recognize me while I'm with my friends. But all honestly, I'm like, I get emotionally drained when I'm interacting with people. And to me, I love the Bruce Wayne Batman dynamic that I've created for myself where I can be, you know, inconspicuous in the back and do my thing in the front.

And like, nobody knows what I'm doing, you know, and keep everybody on their toes. But I really don't crave the attention. I crave it in the moments that I'm in the match, you know, because I'm creating something hopefully organic or unique. But outside of that, I really don't want to be bothered. We talked about where I live. I said, I live away from far away from everybody in the boonies. I don't mind driving 30, 40 minutes to, you know, civilization because I do like that

disconnect and peace from my pro wrestling world bubble to my hopefully back to whatever this reality is, reality that I need to get back to, you know? Yeah, I see this suit jacket on the chair behind you. When were you most recently rocking that? I think on a stream. I think on the stream I either wear my robes or the jacket. And this one I was talking about on my stream because I'm making, like I said, trousers.

I'm also making a suit jacket and the vest. And we were talking about what we liked and what we didn't like because my stream helps me create my own gear. and they help me make my outfits and all that. So, yeah, we were just talking about what we liked and what we didn't like, vocab that I never understood until literally recently. And yeah, that's why that bad boy is there. I'll put it on if you want.

I look sexy in it. I would don't doubt it, of course. Come on. So, like, have you always been putting your own clothes together? Gear, yes. Clothes, maybe in the last two years, I started making my own track suits, some shorts. I made some clothes for my kids

just because not trying to be cheap or I just like things that look different. My kids do too. And I like practicing on my kids, not just moves, but outfits and stuff. So a lot of my kids, they like cosplay. So a lot of times I'll be making stuff for them. But yeah, recently I just got into more tailoring.

Like, I don't know, something about the best book and tailoring process really intrigued me. and it wasn't that hard of a transition from making gear to, you know, regular clues. So you make your own masks too? Yep. Wow. Okay.

Everything about the boots. I know that a lot of thought goes into that. How did you land on this design? So originally, okay, my original Lindsay mask, I've been Lindsay Dorados forever. So my original Lindsay mask actually had the eyes closed with the screen. It didn't have this piece here. It didn't have this. piece here and it didn't have the hair. Everything else was kind of the same. It always had ears.

It always had eyes and I always had a nose. And as I got into wrestling right before WWE, I kind of like had this like mature moment where I was like, well, you know what? This mass has always been the same. Let's, you know, let's age a little bit. So what I ended up doing for my cruiserweight classic mass is I actually grew out teeth over here. I actually move. I didn't have hair here, but I had a Mohawk, which was later replaced with this piece. And in that sense, it was more like, you know, I was trying to find myself, but I felt like a, like a second part of my life or my wrestling life. And to me, that was like my teenage year.

So I felt like I was like a teenager, a rebel, a badass. And that's what I wanted to represent when I made that mask. It's actually right here next to me and one of my mannequins. And then as we got into WWE, You know, of course, I'm a businessman, so I know, okay, well, the eyes, we connect with the audience through eyes. So let's get rid of the eyewisors. The teeth were making a little bit hard for you to understand me talking when they did let me talk. So I got rid of them.

And then, you know, like all hair, I said, well, hair always, you know, I'm bald underneath. So I was like, well, here, we'll move from the top and move to the side. So let's get some, you know, sideburns mixed in with the beer. So it all kind of flows in. And a little bit more mature look, if you see a lot of gentlemen now, like, having that husky, like, musky looks. So I was like, you know, we'll do it naturally with the mask. Yeah. And as we kept going on, we just kind of kept evolving until, you know, finally we got to this part with, you know, again, this is replacing the hair.

My eyes are open so you can hear me. Oh, my mouth is open so you can hear me. And I still like the idea of the hair on the side going into the beard just so it's all uniformed. And when I do like brush it out, it does look cool and fluffy. So I feel like every luchador just instantly gets compared to Ray Mysterio, which could be a good thing or a bad thing, I feel like. What do you think it is? I'll tell you what it is after me, after you.

Well, I mean, I think he's the greatest luchador of all time. It's certainly the most well-known. But I also feel like everybody thinks that you would then need to perform like him, which would be a real detriment because he has his own style. You have your own style. You know who actually I like, and I'm not going to say more than Ray, but I've always said this. If it wasn't for this person, there may not be a Ray. And I'm not going to say Conan.

I'm going to say psychosis. Oh, sure. Sure. So if you look at my style, it's actually based a lot off of psychosis and like super crazy to Jiri, guys who kind of like, we're messing with Ray and elevating Ray, you know, at that time. But man, without those guys too, like fire. Yeah, a lot of guys want to compare a lot of luchadors to Ray. And to me, honestly, I think that's a bad thing.

I think that's a bad thing because when you think of luchadors, you think of like maybe Ray, you think of milk mask at us, Santo Blue Demon. And then everybody else after that, right? Everybody else follows that. And every one of those underneath got the comparison. Like, oh, the Ray, Ray Mysterios. And I'm like, no, dude, there's, we all are very different.

and unique, different styles, different mass. The other culture may be the same, but we're all very, very much different, you know, especially me. I'm very different. Very different. Is that something that when you go into WWE, they just go, oh, you're a luchador. We'll just put you in this box over here with the other luchadors. I think at first that might have been the case.

And I knew that coming in. So I tried really hard to break that. So, you know, try to be brother, brother with all the, all the producers. and like, oh, okay, this guy does speak English. You know, this guy is, you know, not just a luchador. I try to be like, not buddy, buddy, but I try to get, you know, be good brothers for everybody. So that way they can, you know, think of me as other than Ray, you know, or other than like just a generic luchador.

And it did really, it really did help us for a little bit, you know, being able to communicate with the bosses and not just like hide in catering or hide in the locker room. Like, you know, anytime we had a problem or wanted to speak. You know, they were there to listen to us. So it did help that we were able, or me personally, was able to speak, you know, really good English. So that way I could communicate and kind of get away from that, that idea of like, oh, he's just another mask guy or just Ray.

But at the end of the day, you know, WW is kind of like Disneyland. They kind of need one of everything on each show. So if you fit the bill, you fit the bill. And then it's kind of hard to convince the beast, like you differ, man. It really is like, I remember conversations. heart to heart conversations, me, Metallic and Vince, it was, it was very intense, like, emotional. And homie was biting. Vince was biting on everything. And it's just like, as soon as we left that door, it was kind of like, all right, what's the next problem? What's the

next issue for him? You know, so like, doing things on show days wasn't beneficial for us, you know? And if we had any appointments to go to Stanford or outside of TV, I think we could have been something bomb, something fire in WW. But it's just hard to communicate during showtimes. That's the only time we were able to communicate, really, basically. It's just so crazy to think that you recently told this story where you went to WWE and people didn't know you knew you spoke English. Yeah, first day.

in Memphis. I'll never forget that. And I don't have no, like, it will toward anybody. It really is because of ignorance. I totally get that. It really is totally ignorant that they just didn't know. But at the end of the day, man, it's, it's really the culture everywhere. Like, you look at some dude who looks brown and you assume, like, is he Spanish? Like, I get people who get very scared to communicate with me or, like, don't want to do podcasts with me. because they think I only speak English. And when they send them the email or a text or they interact with me, they're like, holy crap.

Like, what the heck? I was not expecting that. And I'm like, because you're being ignorant. That's why, like, just talk to me. I'm a cool, I think I'm a cool-ass dude. Like, I just like to have fun and do some wrestling stuff, you know. But it was mind-boggling at first when that dude said that to me. I won't say who it is.

But, you know, after that, I never had an issue, me personally. was somebody, you know, ever questioned it. If I was, you know, Mexican or un-American or whatever, you know, they understood that. Like, I made it very apparent, like, no, I'm this. And that's how it's going to be. Yeah. At what age did you move from Puerto Rico to, I guess we'll call it, like, the mainland? Sure.

So check it. Actually, you know what? I was the only generation, the first generation, not to be born in Puerto Rico. So my mom and dad were born in Puerto Rico. Someone needs to update your Wikipedia then. what city were you actually born in camden new jersey i assumed you were born in porto rico and then like six eight months old whatever then so so my mom and my dad they were born in porto rico and literally like my sister was born here in the states and

i think there was talks for them to move back and then i was born and then like we we all just stayed here my grandmom ended up moving my grandpa ended up moving uh i don't have i don't really have a big family left that i stay in touch with like my circle. But besides my grandparents on both sides, right now my both grandparents or my both grandfathers are both deceased, leaving both my grandmoms and my mom and my sisters left. So that's pretty much my family right now left besides my kids. But yeah, I just born in Camden, New Jersey, right outside Philadelphia, a lot of people always think I'm either Mexican or Puerto Rican. I'm 100% Puerto Rican, just living in America. I'm American. I'm American. I'm American. I would hope.

after this comes out, somebody goes in and updates you. They're not going to do it. Okay? They're not going to do it. That's why I started also announcing myself this weekend. I said, you know, by what I say, I said, the Lucha Lounge in San Juan, Puerto Rico by way of Camden, New Jersey. Because again, I want to give, I want to represent my people, right? Even if they, even if half of them think like, oh, this guy's the greatest because he's representing us.

And the other guy's like, oh, well, he ain't from the island. We ain't representing us. It don't matter. I'm representing my people. And then I'm also representing where I grew up in that part of the hood because without that, that I wouldn't have that, you know, in me as well. So I'm representing both my people in Puerto Rico, the island and, you know, the hood I grew up in, Camden, New Jersey. So shout out to all y'all out there.

Were your first words, Spanish or English? Every since I can remember, I want to say English, only because, again, my grandparents always spoke Spanish. I can speak to them in English. They speak to me in Spanish. We communicate that way. Or some, naturally, I'll speak Spanish with like the homies if they just like don't feel comfortable speaking English. I'm like, I got you, dog. Like, I'm not going to like, you know, force you to do it. But yeah, I don't really like stress speaking Spanish or English. I know a lot of cats do all my, they're like, why don't you speak Spanish? Why don't you speak English? Again, I'm just trying to connect. And most of my audience is, you know, English speaking. So it's just easier that way. So

If y'all listening to this and y'all got beef, kiss my fucking ass. Sorry, breathe that out. All right. I'm just, like, tired of just pleasing everybody else. I'm just trying to please myself, dog, for real. It's all you can do. All you can do is just make yourself happy. Yeah.

You know what? I'll tell you straight up. There was a time in WWI. I got sent home for about four months early on in my career. Not for having a bad attitude, but just stand in my ground. And now me and this guy, mega cool. He's in the top position, but that's why my ass got sent home. He's in the top position now. But yeah, I just didn't like the way that he was like communicating with me. I didn't like

the way he was like handling my ideas. I just basically, we were going to have it out. And I got sent home. And in that time, dude, I was like nobody communicated with me. Nobody. I felt like I was in exile. This is when Emma and Darren Young got fired. So I was like, all right, well, maybe I'll get fired too. And whatever. Let's see what happens. And I was in a bad mental state, really bad mental state. And because again, I made it to do there. And then I felt like I was getting sabotaged. And then it wasn't what I wanted.

And I just wanted more. I just really wanted more. And I just felt like I wasn't getting it. And then I started reading, started reading a lot of, like, inspirational book. All these books back here that you read that you see, like I legit read them. The top three or the bottom three are all math books because that's what I used to teach. after college. But all the ones above there are all wrestling and inspirational books,

especially the top two. And I remember reading a book called Relentless by Tim Grover. And I was like, man, this guy's inspirational. Then it was like, give me another thing. Then I started reading like a stoic life. And I was like, oh my God, what is it? And then just like my peace of mind started to get so good that like anything at work, anything outside of, you know, this was so easy.

to deal with. I just, I didn't care. I was having fun, like you said, I was having fun and I was at a really good state of mind. So I always recommend everybody. And even right now when I do seminars, I say, yo, if y'all want to be a pro wrestler, y'all got to start reading, reading, reading, because I don't care who you are. If you're a pro wrestler, you got some kind of mental illness. You'll go and you will develop that because of social media, all the stuff that comes with being a pro wrestler, it is very stressful and it's very taxing on your mind. And if you don't take care of your mind, just like your heart, right? Your heart's a muscle. Your mind is a muscle too. If you don't take care of that as well, you're going to start to deteriorate and you're going to hate this business.

And I started hating it a little bit before. But then like once I started reading and finding myself and finding that piece, I was like, man, I love life. I love life too much to fill, you know, fill it up with hate. So what book do you recommend that people start reading? Man, Okay. I've read all the books that you just listed. So I'm just fascinated about 48 laws of power. I don't know that one. Okay. I would if I'm going to write this down right now. Xavier Woods hooked it up for me in the, uh, the locker room one time. I mean a couple of dudes. He was like, yo, read this book. It'll change your mind on how you look at WWE, how you approach people. It's called the 48 laws of power. He was correct. A thousand and 10% correct. Like it, the book is so incredible.

to not just pro wrestling, but just to life, how to deal with bosses, how to deal with. It's just so smart. It made so much sense. So that's my very first book. I always recommend people

to read if you're a pro wrestler. Read that one. I also recommend the one I just said, Relentless, that one by Tim Grover. Tim Grover was Michael Jordan's coach. Yep. And Bryant,

Kobe Bryant's coach. Yep, yep. There it is. That's a pretty good endorsement. Yeah, crazy. And then I just want to say one more, actually two more. I'm going to say one one is called unfuck yourself literally.

No, I'm not saying to you, but that's what the name of the book is. I just finished that one a few months ago. Man, it's really good too. Yeah. I caught myself doing stuff and I was, I need to stop doing that. Yep, you're right. And I think that the really, the thing I love about that book is it, it reminds you that everything, all the problems are right up here. They're in your head.

Yes. you are the source and you're the cause of the problem of every problem that's happening. And you're also, you could be the solution of the problem. That's what I mean. The cause in the solution of every problem. Yes. And then the last book I actually had my girl read because I read it and I was like,

babe, this is, this is me. I need you to read this book. And it's called The Mask of Masculinity. Oh, by Lewis House. Yes. And I was like, wow. I literally have every one of these masks at once a month. Like I'm using one of these masks once a month.

And for those of you don't know what he's talking about, he's literally talking about how men or people, he talks about men in general, but it's mostly for people too, how they mass different things, you know, through laughter or through anger. And I was like, wow, babe, this is me. And if you ever want to, like, you ever see me dealing with something, it's probably in this book. So, like, figure it out. And ever since she's read that, too, we've been on a collision course of, like, just in peace, like, soon. super nice. She knows when I'm like kind of in a funk and she knows exactly what I need, you know, to lift me up. Just because of that, you know, the knowledge of reading some literature. Blow my mind, which kind of is like intriguing because growing up, I hated reading and literature.

Me too. My worst subjects were English and reading and my best ones were math. And then all of a sudden in my 30s and 20s, I'm like, wow, I'm finding peace and reading. And like, that's, It's crazy. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup.

Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are.

The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen. on your favorite platform. I remember watching a TED talk where someone was explaining, like the concept of a book is someone taking 20 years of their knowledge and putting into like two, three, four hundred pages. And I went, oh, I've never had someone explain it to me like that.

Like if you can take all of their knowledge and read it in whatever it is, you know, five hours, 10 hours, 20 hours, however many hours it takes you to read it. Like, what a win for you. Yeah. Well, you also got to sit down and read it. You can't just get the book and not do anything with it. That's why they call it shelf help for a lot of people. True, true.

I won't put any books on the shelf. Yeah, I won't put any books on there that I won't read. There are literally two books right here that I'm going to read. And then in the next couple weeks. So right now I got actually this called Resilience. Resilience. I saw something on Instagram where this lady like took a concept that was negative and made it into a positive. And I just like the way that she did it.

And I was just like, ooh. And then she said, oh, I got the. this from this book called Resilience. And I was like, oh, well, I'm going to read that next. So I got that one. And I'm actually reading this NFT book right now. Just the idea of, you know, NFTs. But I'm bringing it into the wrestling world.

For example, I had a great talk with Gabe Supposed to the other day. And I'm not really interested in NFTs, but I'm more interested in why people are interested in NFTs, especially in the long run. So my mindset is like, how could I take that same idea and apply it to wrestling. How can I get people interested in me in the long run? Not just now for the quick, you know, like the quick money exchange. I just want it in the long one. So that's what we were kind of like intriguing. What are making NFTs so desirable? You know, why is why are people want it? What's the long game? That's why I'm trying to apply those concepts to a per wrestling.

Yeah. You know, something a little bit different. Have you read the four agreements? Of course. That was a life-changing book for me. Yes. I kept calling it the four arguments for some reason, but yeah, agreements is the thing. Yeah. And they all kind of are arguments with yourself because you do these things all the time. But for anybody who hasn't read it, it's four simple agreements. If you can make these with yourself every single day, you will live a much better life.

And it's be impeccable with your word, always try your best or always do your best. Don't make assumptions and don't take anything personally. And they sounds so easy when you say them. But like, we all. every single day, take things personally and make assumptions. Yeah, oh, no, it's a thousand percent. I got to stop taking things personally. We all do.

I got to stop doing that. I got to stop taking things seriously. Like, yeah, like you said, everything's up here. Everything's up here. So we could take something that probably is negative and make it 20 times worse. But, yeah, I need to stop doing that as well. What do you think about manifestation? Do you believe in that?

Absolutely. I do, too. I mean, we could go down a deep rabbit hole with this, but I think the thing that's so fascinating to me is that when you set your mind to something and you point your needle of the compass in that direction, it's amazing how many things start flowing your way. No. Well, you know what? I'll be very honest with you.

Kindergarten is when I wanted to be a pro wrestler. And also, that's the time my memory kind of started. It started a little bit before that in preschool, but like really like I, my mindset. said, I always felt has been the same from now than it was in preschool when I found pro wrestling. And I said, I wanted to be a pro wrestler. No matter what was introduced in my life or whatever I was exposed to would not have changed my mind. I knew I was going to be a pro wrestler. So I manifested this my entire life since, you know, kindergarten. And I knew day one, like what I wanted to do. So, and I'm still doing it, man. You are. And I think that there's a big distinction that needs to be

made with manifestation because I think a lot of people think, oh, I just like put this out into the world and I dreamed it and like it didn't happen. Well, part of the manifestation is figuring out, okay, what's the next step? You know, for you, it's finding a wrestling school. It's starting to train. It's working out. It's those things. Like that all becomes part of that whole thing. Yeah. I think people are scared to just do the work. Like they want to manifest. Great idea. That's what it is. Yes. And okay. Oh, now I'm glad that you said that. So that was the idea that the girl in that Instagram video said. She's like, everybody's scared of fail, but you got to look at it as learning.

And when she said that, I was like, I've heard that before. And I was like, man, that made sense. But then like when she said it, I was like, oh, okay, there must have been a reason why I ran across this particular post and, you know, bought the book and all that. And yeah, people are scared of fail, but it's a learning experience. And if you're not learning from, you know, what you're failing at, then you're going to be stuck in the same, like, But like every failure is a lesson. You have to remember that. Every failure is a lesson.

If we all gave up after the first failure, none of us would walk. Because the first time you tried to walk as a kid and you fell over, you would have gone, well, you know, not for me. Yeah. Yeah, I'll crawl. Yeah, I'll just figure it out. Come pick me out, mom. I'm tired.

Yeah. Right. But I think I love that idea that it's not win or lose. It's win or learn. Yeah. And that's how I look at my WWE career. Like, again, nobody, I never manifest like, oh, I'm going to be WWE champion or whatever. That would have been cool. Great. Yeah, but at that time of me,

like, growing up, that wasn't a thing. I just wanted to be a pro wrestler in WWE. And then, like, when I got there, I was like, okay, cool, let me learn all of these things that I absolutely can. So when I leave here or if I ever leave here, my book and all those knowledge in one time, you know, in 20 years or whatever it is, I could give it to pass it off to somebody who may use it and now will be a head start from where I was, you know? So like, these things are all. part of our lives and a lot of people just have to be able to take risk on themselves because nobody's going to take it on them yeah nobody i think you know on that same vein like that the idea of the reticular activating system is so powerful and that's like the thing where you're looking to

buy a red Volkswagen Jetta and all of a sudden now you're spotting them all the time they were always there but now you're going oh there's another one oh there's another one there's another one over there. And that happens in our life in so many different ways. But I wonder how many people actually catch on though. That's a good point. Some people will catch on and be like, oh, maybe it's a bad idea. Some people will like, you know what I'm saying? Like maybe maybe some guys will see them. Maybe too many people have it. But if you want it, you want it. Like, just go get it. Yeah. I always say like if somebody's doing the thing that you want to do, that you want to do, that means it's now possible for you to do it as well. Like it's not just about, you want to,

like being lucky. It's about like putting in the work and figuring it out. Yeah, I don't think luck is, I mean, my girl always says I'm extremely lucky. But again, I do believe in karma. I'm a very, I try to be very positive and all that. But when it comes to achievements and stuff like that, there's no luck. There's just work that goes into it. And everybody, again, another post that I love that I always quote is everybody says,

oh, that guy's lucky, but they don't ever see the work that goes. into what that person had to go to, to be, you know, successful. Yeah. Nobody, you know, say, I love the quote, you know, I find that the harder I work, the luckier I got.

Yes. Yeah, that's crazy. That's why, you know, me personally, that's why I don't talk to a lot of my family because they saw me as that. And again, I got four kids, man.

I got four kids and a girl I got to take care of, like I can't be taking care of growing ass people. No offense of y'all hearing this. I'm sorry, but that's the honest truth. And that's why my relationship with my family has kind of like dwindle a little bit. But at the end of the day, like I'm working. I'm using my body. I'm not, it's not me being lucky and hoping like, oh, I get a big paycheck or whatever.

No, I get the same check or used to get the same check every week. Now I'm like, you know, I'm hustling and bustling to get that money to, you know, have my family have what they need and food on the table. Do you think that you'll ever have like regret? that if you don't reconnect with your family. Like they're only going to be here for a certain amount of time. Like do you not feel in five or ten or twenty years? It'd be nice to just have them in your life in some sort of way.

Now, I want to say, yeah, Chris, I'm not going to lie, but I'm just so cold-hearted when it comes to that stuff because of all the years of not feeling that love as a child. You know, my father was murdered when I was little. So and my mom being awesome when she was younger, a single parent went to school, did her job. I think she made her work two times, two jobs. But with that comes lack of love in the house. Yeah. You know, so.

And pain. Like it sounds like there's a lot of pain there. Yeah. So it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of hard to, to want to rekindle. And I try. We all try. We do, on both sides, we do try. But it's hard when you're an adult and people look.

at you still as a child, you know, and I'm not a child anymore. And I think that was one of the other things, too, not only in WWE, but outside of WWE, it's a hard thing where people known you forever, almost 16 years, 15 years, as this young guy that he broke in when he was 16 and now you, like, about to be 35, but they still see you as this, like, 20-year-old punk kid. I'm just like, dog, I'm not like, you know, I just don't want to deal with that. So it's kind of hard to break that barrier when you're an adult and a parent to. now that I know what a parent's like.

But again, just the idea of how to parent is different. So never say never, right? Obviously, never say never. It sounds like you want to give your kids all of the love and all of the attention. All you did. Yeah. I love my babies are my babies, man. Like I get choked up talking about them.

Like I never, I don't even want animals in my house. I got two pets. And I was like, I can't get another one because of that's just a lot of love that you know, that you got to give. I cried on my birthday when my, my fish died, a carnival goldfish that we had for like three years. But I love the shit out of them because I love life. I love

anybody who brings joy to my family, whether it's a person or animal, I love you. So when that fish died, I was like in tears. So I give all the love to my kids, whatever. I'm not saying I spoiled them or whatever, but I love walking around my house and my kids just randomly saying like, Daddy, I love you.

And then just walk away and do their stuff. I'm like, that shit would never have happened in my house. I didn't have anybody to say, I love you to, you know, because mom was either at work or my dad was, you know, dead. My stepdad was also working, but there's a disconnect because he's your stepdad, you know. So it's kind of like, damn, who do you say, I love you two? Like, you don't, I didn't get to say that until teenage years when I really meant it, you know,

when I thought I really meant it. So my babies get the love right now. That's why it's hard for me to, you know, give love to anybody else. And it must be tough with the schedule you were on. I mean, you were away so much that you want to make those two days that you're back at home with kids, like, mean, as much as you can. Yeah. I mean, the first two or three years were really hard, like right before pandemic, because, again, we would go Monday and we would do 205 as well. So sometimes on Friday when they moved it.

So, yeah, I mean, I didn't get to go home to my babies until. the weekend. Even then, it was like, well, let me go sleep for two hours or three hours. And then, like, when I get up, I'm like half asleep. I don't want to do anything. But then when pandemic hit, it was awesome, dude. It was like, I wasn't traveling. I was in Florida. We were Airbnb. We were like, you know, do the hotel because we were here in Florida. I worked one day a week to walk them to school, pick them up. You know, I did things that I wasn't doing ever or even thought that I could ever do. Like, Simple things like just picking up your kid. Like you think everybody has that like advantage. Some wrestlers don't have that advantage, man. Like I didn't have that advantage at all. And now I have that advantage where, you know, after pandemic, I was able to do that. And that was something so gratifying for me that I was like, okay, well, I like this.

I don't, I don't want to change this. So yeah, it was hard. But again, without that lifestyle and without that big break, man, I would have been stuck in a two, two bedroom townhouse still with four kids and my girl in there. So I'm very fortunate. Again, I'm fortunate and blessed to have the life that I have right now. Yeah. Do you think about life after wrestling? Dude, I had this bad trip experience probably about a month ago because I wanted, of course, everybody talks about life after wrestling, right? And I don't know. A lot of

people don't. A lot of people think this is going to last forever. I think, I think, no, 100%. I think honestly, if you're, if you're realistic, like, you have to think about two things. One, you have to think about and accept death. And two, you have to, in this case, accept life after wrestling. And I've accepted both in my, in my life. I've come at peace on both. Well, the first part, death. But the life after wrestling, I literally just came to peace with it, probably within the last month where I do find myself after wrestling, maybe open up a wrestling school. I'm writing actually two books right now. So I'm hoping, you know, maybe that'll open up my eyes to maybe more literature or something.

But that's why I wanted it to do something outside of wrestling, like the tailoring or, you know, cartoons or something. Like just something outside. I think once I'm done with wrestling, I'm done with wrestling. I don't want to, I don't want temptation. I don't want stress. I don't want to, you know, come back when I'm 99%. I want to be 110%. You know, I don't want anybody to think like, oh, man, that guy lost his step or, man, that guy used to be really good.

Like, I'd never, I don't want that in my life. But I don't think of it often, but I do think of it. And going back to what I was saying before, that last trip, I had this image in my head. of this triangle. And on one side of the triangle, like a piece of paper cut into three pieces. One side of it was basically like my childhood, everything.

I could see my childhood. It was like crazy. And then in the middle, it was like my wrestling career. And then on the last one, it was just blank. And I was like, why is it blank?

And it was because I didn't know. And I was so frustrated with myself creatively and professionally because I was like, I needed to find that answer. Like, am I going to be okay, mentally after wrestling. Am I going to be okay after wrestling, period? And then I got my answer. I was like, it doesn't matter. Just you'll get there. And once you get there, just like everything else,

you'll figure it out. So then I stopped caring about it. And then I just understood like, okay, there is life after wrestling. Don't know what it is. I'm looking forward to it, but I'm not going to stress myself out about it right now. Yeah. Do you feel like you really need to capitalize on the next, let's call it five to 10 years? your wrestling career? Yeah, I had, there's a number of my head. There's a number, I'll say right here, I said 40 years old, five years, I want to be done. I don't think my style and the way my body is right now inside and outside of the ring,

I just, again, I want to be able to leave on my own two feet, very happy with my career, uh, and healthy, you know, and I think could I do it past 40? Absolutely. you know, but I just, me knowing, I don't want to put out something that's 99%, you know. And I think I'm ready to like just move on at that point. Like, again, did everything in WWE, I could wrestle in TNA, wrestled in Impact, Mexico, Japan. What else could I really do that?

Like really once, you know, that a guy from Camden, New Jersey, a guy who should never have been born, guy who should never have gotten out of the ghetto. or what else could I do to, like, help me out. Like, it would just be boosting my ego at that point. I don't have an ego. I don't need an ego. Like, I just, I want to be like, man, my dad was cool. My kids say my dad was cool, but now he's my dad.

Like, to me, that's much cooler, you know? I think there's a lot of your fans that want to see you in AEW. Yeah, but I'll be honest, man. I see AEW as the same. For me, me personally, if I would be inserted in AEW, I'd just be in the same spot. I'd just be another mass guy. Like you already got another mass guy there. You got two.

You got Phoenix and Pentagon. Like, like you're already good unless you, I don't know, let me talk for them or let me talk for me. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like,

I would love to go to any company who would just be like, what do you want to do? And I'd be like, all right, this is what I'm thinking because this is the idea I've had for about 20 years.

And I think we can make some money off of this. But like nobody wants, Nobody, again, is ignorance of like, oh, why are we investing in a lucha guy when we got this lucha guy or that lucha guy or this luchy guy? Well, I'm the fucking best, dog. I'm the most entertaining and interesting motherfucker in the planet when it comes to Lucha Libre. Like we having a conversation with Chris right now in English and everybody's intriguing. Everybody's like this. Like, oh, my God, what is going on?

Everybody got a list of books they need to read now. Right? But like at the end of the day, like, I want to just, I want freedom. So even the money's great. I don't care about money, man. Like I said, I've been poor before. I've been broke before. I've been in the hood before.

I'll be good. But I just want that like, let me tell my story. And if AW is the place to do it or impact, I'll go wherever. When's this book going to come out? I can't wait to read it. Well, there's two. All right. There's two.

My satire to pro wrestling, that's not what the name is, but it's like a survival guide of pro wrestling. We'll be actually coming out in November. hopefully this year, I think it's in November. I was talking to my publisher about it. And then I'm writing my part one of my life, basically my life. I don't know when that's going to come out just because it's so, you know, there's a lot of things in my life.

I don't know what I want out, you know. Well, I mean, you're the author. You get to decide what goes out. Say, I'm going to put everything out on again. I'm going to put everything out. I'm going to apologize right now. And then at the end of the day, I'm going to say, well, y'all bought the book anyway. So thank you for me.

What's the best way that you're interacting with fans right now? Is it Twitch? Right now, yeah, personally, Twitch. On there, my fans and my OGs, man, I love my own. By the way, so people can find you. Yep, Luchelit Station. You come out there, we usually make gear, we make outfits, we play games, and we just have a good time on there.

I'm going to be doing my podcast on there, Blunt Talk, the Talking Blunt, sorry. Me and my boys are going to be on there. just, again, just doing what I want to do, talking blunt with maybe someone. I don't know. I can't say it here. But yeah, right there. And then, like, my Instagram is kind of like taken over by my daughter.

I paid her to do it just because, again, social media is just such a drag, bro. Like, I'm just overreading comments that I just don't want to read them. I really don't. Like, I don't want to have that moment of record Ralph where he reads the comments and he realizes the internet's the worst. Like, I'm done with it. What a movie. Oh my God, I love that movie.

Great. Wow. Man, I told everybody if you're a pro wrestler, watch record Ralph too, because that's exactly the moment where he realizes the comments could be your best run or they could be your worst enemy. And yeah, you got to deal with it. But honestly, besides Twitch and Instagram, I'm more myself on Twitter. I've been kind of wild on Twitter. I apologize right now.

You'll see some stuff on there that. I don't know. They definitely not PG-13 or Hort team. But again, at the end of the day, that's me, man. Like I'm not going to hide who I am. I'm not going to sugarcoat. You know, I don't have that anymore of like, should I tweet this? Like, you know, I'm going to tweet it because I'm, I want to tweet it or I'm going to say

this because I want to say it. So at the end of the day, man, that's the best way to find me and talk to me or try to troll me so I could troll you back. This is like the most mindful and like fascinating conversation I've had on the podcast in so long. Oh, man. Do you remember what I said to you at a Zikki? you dice to show? I don't know. Something like, this doesn't happen in Canada. Well, yeah, I did say

that one too when I was getting my ass beat. But I had said, I said, you said, when are you going to be on my podcast? Yeah. I was like, sure, whenever you tell me, you probably one of those people who didn't think I could speak English. Were you? No, no. There's a lot of people, and it's not you. It's just there's a lot of people that don't want to do podcasts. And I get it. And I never want to be the person who's like bugging someone to do something that I don't want to do. So I just figured I'd float it out to you and you were like, yeah, let's do it. I'm like, hell yeah. Well, I was definitely one of those people who didn't want to. But when we met in person, I was like, oh, he's actually a cool dude. Like, I know me personally, like you see me in public. Like, you know, sometimes I could be like

cool. And sometimes I could be like, oh, he don't like that person at all. But like me and you hit it off. And I was like, yeah, anytime you want, brother, I got you 110%. So you, Renee and I've got a whole bunch of books that I got to read. 48 laws of power, number one of my next list. It's thick. It's a thick book. You might want an audio book that one. It's my favorite, if not one of my favorite podcast, the School of Greatness.

So the Mask of Masculinity. I haven't read. So I'd like to read that. Oh, man, you're going to love that. Trust me. You are going to love that. And I'm telling you, once you read it, you're going to be like, wow, this is pro wrestling. I'm going to a bunch of pro-wresters.

You won't. Text me. I end every conversation talking about gratitude, which I think you. you all appreciate. I wake up every day. I say out loud three things that I'm grateful for and I do it before going to bed. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? Very first off, my family. Without them, I would not be here. I'm also grateful for my brain because without that, I would not be the creative genius that I am. And I also am thankful for air because without that I would not be able to fill my lungs and have this great moment with you

and all my friends. So I appreciate that as well. Appreciate you. Those are three great things to be grateful for too. What a great conversation, my friend. Hell yeah, bro. It was a lot better than I thought. I thought you were going to roast me. I just don't know. This conversation would happen in Canada, though. It would. Anyway, I would just, you know, it, I'd have to say sorry, sorry. Sorry. What part of Canada were you from? Just outside of Toronto. Pickering, Ontario. Okay, I like Toronto.

It's actually right next to where Renee grew up. She grew up in the city over, Ajax. I like Toronto everywhere else in Canada. It was not nice to me. So I will say, bevo Toronto. Oh, man. Vancouver, I'm looking at you. I love Vancouver.

Come on. I like Vancouver until TSA, want to go through my bag and try to make me take my phone out of my case And I'm like, well, that's some silly shit. I'm not doing that. And yeah, it was a big scene. I see. That's the story for another time.

Yes, sir. Am I going to see you next? Great question. Are you going to be in Baltimore for there's a show there in like a month? There's to be a lot of people on that show. I'm somewhere in Baltimore. Don't know where. I hope so.

Let's have a good time. All right, brother. Thank you. All right, man. Thank you guys. Lince Adirata. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. for listening to this. Thank you so much for sticking around all the way until the end.

And if you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend. Take a screenshot. Also share it on social media and tag us so we can share it as well. Linzay is at Linzai underscore Dorado on Instagram, at Luchador, L.D on Twitter. And you can find me at Chris Van Fleet. And I'll leave you with the very wise words of George Bernard Shaw. Progress is impossible without change. And those who cannot change their minds. Cannot change anything. Be great. Be grateful.

Have a great weekend. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock?

I'm looking for a music video. You're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley.

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