Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Marc Mero On Sable, Stone Cold Refusing To Work With Him, Life After Wrestling, Brawl For All

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

Marc Mero (@MarcMero) is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in WCW and WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Atlanta, GA to discuss how Dusty Rhodes created his Johnny B Badd persona, his other gimmicks like Marvelous Marc Mero and Wildman Marc Mero, jumping to WWE and being asked by Vince McMahon if he could do a Tarzan yell, negotiating the first ever guaranteed WWE contract, having his wife Sable as his valet, Steve Austin refusing to work with him, his work today as a motivational speaker, and more! Get Marc Mero's book "Badd To Good" here: https://a.co/d/0bzqassE Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Vlee! Mark, we've been talking about doing this for so long. We're finally here, so thank you for making this happen. Oh, man, I'm excited. When I heard you were in town, I said, oh, man, we've got to make this happen. And here we are. Here we are. Congratulations in the book.

Oh, thank you. It did really well. And I was, you know, it's finding someone, you know, Ben Ville, who co-wrote the book with me, find someone that can take your words and make him into life, where people are reading and going, oh my gosh, I feel like I'm there. It did really well, but it's still doing really well. Yes. Like, people are still talking about it.

Like, your story is so amazing. And we're going to dive into it throughout this episode. But I'm curious, do you think that life after wrestling has been more successful for you than when you were in it? By far. It's like in life, you know, it's not like finding your calling. You know, it's like wrestling was entertaining, but what I do now is life changing. and there's no greater joy than helping another person. And I found that joy through so much heartache and loss and brokenness

and stories that people can relate to. And I think that's why it's been so successful. Well, that Mother's Day video gets me all the time, a mother's love, which is, it's full circle that we're sitting here in the Diamond Dallas Page Performance Center here, DDPY's Performance Center. His team filmed that video. Yes. And if someone hasn't seen this,

oh my goodness, pause this and go watch it. It's five minutes long. It's just so powerful. Talk to me about that story and how Dallas and his team filming that and putting it out there, how much that changed things for you. Well, whenever I came to,

I was living in Florida at the time. Whenever I came to Georgia, I would stay with DDP, you know, and hang out with him. He said, we've always been great friends. You know, we wrestle each other like 200 times, you know? And he never beat me. But anyways, that's another whole story.

Don't look it up. Yeah. But anyways, I was staying here in Georgia, and I was doing local schools. And Steve U, who works Dallas's partner, said, hey, why don't we come out and film it? And so Dallas had the crew come out and film it because I get photo releases and video releases at the schools I go to. And they came out and filmed it.

And a couple days later, DDP calls me up and he goes, hey, bro, you mind if we put this video up on YouTube? I said, sure, he sends it over to me. You know, I go, wow, that's really. Steve, you just edited this video so beautifully. And next thing you know, he calls me back like a day later, two days later, he goes, bro, the video just hit 100,000. I go, did it really? I go then send it to me.

They put it up on my YouTube channel. Well, anyways, the next thing you know, this thing just explodes. And celebrities like Charlie Sheen, Little Wayne, Damon Wayans, all these celebrities are putting it up on their channels also. Next thing you know, this one's got 200,000, $200,000, $2 million, $5 million, $10 million. And it just explodes where we looked at one day, we just decided to go see how many people have seen this video. And it was over half a billion people.

Oh my gosh. It's just incredible. Well, it's so easy to relate to it. Yeah. Everybody has a muscle. There's a little piece of everybody in this video. For sure. How we may treat someone,

how someone may have treated us, how we take it granted for life. Life is so precious. And sometimes we just don't realize how important it is and how we treat each other is really the bottom line of this. video. There's a line in that video that it gets me and it's I no longer live in time. I live in

moments. What does that mean to you? Every moment is precious. You know, when we're always thinking about the next day, next year or living in the past, which could be worse than that, you know, living with bitterness, resentment or unforgiveness. And I just, I just live in these moments I have. I'm going to be 66 years old. You know, we only have so... You look great. Well, thank you, brother. I got the memo on wearing black. Thank you. This is a uniform.

But I realize that there's... Time is so important to me now, you know, and I just got married in December, my beautiful wife, Melissa. Congratulations. And we just, every day is so important. Like, we wake up and meeting someone that's happy all the time and realizing that we're going to, you know, um, travel more and do things and not look back on life and say, oh, I wish I would have done this or done

that. I'm doing it now. Yeah, you're speaking to something that I love so much and it's gratitude. Yeah. And there's this quote I always come back to. It's no amount of anxiety will change the past and no amount of anxiety will change the future and no amount of regret will change the past, but any amount of gratitude can change the present. You know, it's the attitude of gratitude. It's living in the moment and, you know, preparing for the future, but living in the moment, it's very important for me. You've had so much loss. You've had so much pain. But you show up with a smile on your face and you live in such a spirit of joy all the time.

Where does that come from? Well, first and foremost, my faith in Christ. You know, I'm a Christian and he has changed my life. When I gave my life to, you know, I grew up Jewish. Well, I feel I don't know this, but I grew up Jewish. and my last name used to be Merowitz, and it was shortened to Merrow. And but when I gave my life to Christ, everything changed. But I went through, you know, I backslid.

I went through some hard times, brokenness and, you know, divorce and death. And, you know, my little brother and sister, they both died at 21. My mother died at 58. My dad died while I was holding my arms from lung cancer is looking right at me. And losing, of course, all the guys we wrestled with and against in the business that passed on. So many hit me hard. You know, Eddie Guerrero was just such a light in the world, you know, and having so many

great matches with Eddie and some of the guys that Brian Pillman and guys that we just traveled with and were with all the time that next thing they're gone. It's just you realize how precious life is. So you show up with a smile on your face all the time. Well, you know, I look at what's the alternative. There's a lot of people living in that all tournament. Yes. A lot of people, you know, that are just upset about.

what they have or what they don't have and they're focused on a lot of people focus on the things they don't have. Right. Yeah. But you're, you just have this, like you're just, this light. Well, thank you, man. I, you know, I realize that, you know, because I do so many schools and so many presentations, you know, you, you, you feed off the audience, but the audience also feeds off of you. And you got to come out there and you just got to have a lot of energy and positivity. And when they hear my story, they, they think, you know, maybe my life isn't so bad, you know, maybe I should start spending more time with my family. Maybe I shouldn't bully those kids or do this or do that. And it's really changed a lot. After my presentation, we have to see kids hugging each other, which is

it's like you know you've touched their heart in some way. So for people who don't know, where did this start for you? Where did you start speaking to students? Well, what happened was I opened up a gym in, in Altamont Springs, Florida. And I became a trainer. And this is Post wrestling? Yeah, post wrestling. Let me take a break just for a second. Yeah. Because I got that this story is going to get a...

What happened was after I lost everything, okay? When I say lost everything, we were at a point where we had millions of dollars at one time. And after wrestling, divorce, I just start squandering my money. I mean, taking trips to Vegas and gambling and just living a horrible life. And the next thing I know, I'm running out of money. I'm down to my last... 200 grand, which when you have millions of dollars, 200 grand is not a lot of money, especially living that lifestyle.

And I remember just to have something, I bought this little office building in Maitland, Florida, a little office building. But I opened up a gym. Well, no, I'm sorry. I started working at Gold's Gym. And I'll never forget, Chris, people would come in Gold's Gym and go, oh my gosh, Mark Merrill, what are you doing here? I go, I work here.

It was like, you work at Gold's Gym? It was a humbling experience, but I love training people. I love inspiring people. And that's where it kind of started. But what happened was I got a call from Melbourne High School Football Coach. And he asked me if I would come to speak to his players. I thought, well, that'd be cool. So I'd go and speak.

They had no, no, no, no presentation, nothing. Just spoke from my heart. And back then, Facebook was real popular with the kids. And so I started getting a message through Facebook saying, man, this really changed my life. You really inspired me. and unbeknownst to me that that coach called another school and said, you should have come to speak to your players. He goes, players, I'm coming to speak to the whole school.

Next to you know, school after school starts calling. And, of course, when the video went viral, we had 3,000 booking requests that month. Wow. So it just took off from there. And Chris, that was 19 years ago now. You've been doing this for 19 years. 19 years. And up until the pandemic, we average 230 events a year.

It was just like being in restaurants. wrestling again, you know? Oh my gosh. And I remember coming home from wrestling. Our last was Capital Carnage was my last one with the WWE. I remember flying home from there thinking, never got to travel again, never got to go nowhere again. I just want to be home. I've seen, been over to Europe so many times, been Southeast Asia, you know, South Africa, been all over the world. And I remember just thinking, oh, I just get to be home now. And then not going to tour next to you know, I'm back on the road again. Did you have any plan for what life after wrestling was going to look like? Oh, man. And, you know, first of all, life after wrestling was, was really dark. That's when I really fell in the

drugs again, walked away from God, just lived a horrible life, just didn't care, let myself go, out of shape, out of money, out of time. You know, it was just where I remember that it came to the point where I just didn't want to be here anymore. The, the losing so many people in my life and then, of course, going through the divorce and going through all that again. It's just like the depression got so bad that I just, and then I had anger issues also on top of that, you know, because you blame other people and you live with this bitterness and this resentment and all these things that come together just weigh on you.

And you just feel it. I know someone out there is listening to this right now. That's going, I went through that, or maybe I'm going through that right now. And it came to a point where I just remember that I just wanted to end it. And it was Christmas Day. and I drove to Cocoa Beach, Florida on Christmas Day, and I sat under a pier. And I remember the waves just rolling in and out

and just thinking, I don't want to be here anymore. I had no place to go. I mean, Christmas was always so big in my life, you know, and I had no, you know, many of our friends have passed on through the wrestling and, of course, going through the divorce. And all the heartache I went through, I remember just wanting to end it all. And then if it wasn't for me,

getting on my knees and asking Christ back into my life. I didn't know how, I remember just begging him for forgiveness and thinking to myself, what am I going to do? I'm basically starting over again as, you know, so I get a job. That's where I got a job at Gold's Gym as a trainer and started, and then this thing started getting better and better. And the next thing you know, when the school thing opened up, but let me get back to that little office building, I bought for 200 grand, okay, because this is part of the story. Yeah. So fast forward now, all these years later, I have this little building that I recently sold four years ago, but I held the note.

I was the bank, okay? And they gave me a huge down payment, and they have to pay X amount of money for 10 years, and there's a balloon payment. And the way the Lord works, this balloon payment is $214,000, exactly what I bought it for all those years ago. Wow. So it's an incredible story, but it's just how my life has turned out. that things have just, you just wonder how this happened, you know, I don't believe in coincidence. I really believe that things are meant to be, you know, so anyone out there that's maybe going

through a hard time, man, hang in there. It's going to get better. You got to believe that. Was that day, Christmas Day, 2003, was that your rock bottom moment? That was my, and well, not only Chris, my rock bottom, I believe that rock bottom had a basement. And I went right into that basement. And that was it. That was going to be the end of Mark Merrill. because you didn't just think about committing suicide. You were, you were ready to do it. Yeah. It was going through so much pain that,

when you don't have anybody to talk to, you don't have someone in your life that you can just share with, you know, and not saying that there weren't people that would have listened to me or whatever, but sometimes you feel like you're more of a pain to people. You know, they don't need to hear your sad, stop stories. And I held so much inside,

and I think that's the worst things because, And when I deal with a lot of students' day, too, they hold in these, this, this, um, suicidal thoughts or self-harm or whatever it is, this, this pain. And when you hold things inside, it's like a volcano. And sooner or later, that volcano erupts. And it often erupts a negative behavior, whether it leads to you hurting other people, horrible relationships, anger issues, bitterness, resentments, self-harm, and worst case, those suicidal thoughts. So if that was the rock bottom moment, Take me into your wrestling career. When did you feel like you were on top of the world?

It had to be as Johnny B. Bad. Yeah? First of all, here I am a boxer from New York, right? That, you know, my boxing career was over, 10 years of drug addiction. And then next thing, you know, I get off the drugs. I get a, I had a bunch of friends over my apartment. And one of my buddies had the remote control for the television. And he's flipping through the TV channels, and he lands on professional

wrestling. I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop it there. Let me see this. I'm looking at the television, and I get this aha moment. You know, some people, some people call it the aha moment. Like, and I go, guys, I can do that. My buddies, who are still my buddies today, they bust out laugh. And they go, my God, you're crazy. Look at the sides of those guys. I think it was like the road warriors were on TV. They had traps from their ears coming down, you know. They go, look at the size of those guys. They're going to pick you up and just throw you right out of that ring. I said, no, man, I'm telling you, I can do that. Because I was always a good athlete, you know? And another friend of mine go, Mark, you're 30 years old. What are you

do to start a pro career now? And I remember, and I use this to this day. And I said two words. I go, I believe in that those two words change my life, man. So, and it's always about taking action towards a dreamer goal. And the action I had to take back then I had to find out where there's wrestling school. I don't know how to wrestle. I was living to Venice, Florida, and there was a wrestling school in Tampa. Boris Melenko, Dean and Joe Malenko's father had a wrestling school. So I drive there after working on weekends, one year later at 31 years old is when I signed my first contract. But being at Malenko's school, now, and I got to say, remember, I boxed, played football, hockey, lacrosse, all physical sports. Boris Malenko had me

get in the ring, and they kind of have you just cross your arms and just fall backwards. I hit that mat. And I sound like a seal from Cs. Sea World. I was like, I couldn't catch my breath. I couldn't believe. I thought to myself, how do these guys do this night after night and land on their backs like this? You know, because I didn't know how to fall at the time, you know? Of course, he trained me and taught me and got me ready to get a trial with, when they went to the trial, I was a job guy for, that would drive nine hours from Venice, Florida to center stage here in Atlanta, hope to get picked on television. And that's when they picked me to be on television. And, and,

after my match is when Dusty Rhodes came up to me and said, hey kid, anybody ever tell you you look like Little Richard? And I thought to myself, I thought I was talking about a wrestler. I go, I never heard of Little Richard. He goes, you don't know Little Richard?

Wampumbleu bop, mawamba. I go, oh, the singer? I go, yeah, no one's ever told me that. He goes, oh, I think I got a gimmick for you. That's how you became. That's how I became Johnny Be Bad. Wow. Yes, from going to making from $23,000 a year digging swimming pools, you know, to, you know, becoming a multimillionaire in wrestling, was because Dusty Rhodes said, kid, anybody else to tell you, it looked like Little Richard.

So that gimmick changed your life. It changed my life, man. And not only that, it opened the doors at meeting so many people. I mean, oh, my gosh, it was like all these celebrities wanted to meet me, you know, that were, that obviously knew who Little Richard was. And so many people, first of all, they all thought I was black, you know, being so dark and tan and the little Richard Gimmigman. You were very dead. Yeah. So to this day, I'll go to a place and someone goes, what character were you in wrestling?

I go, I was Johnny B. B. Bia. They go, no, he was a black guy. I go, no, no, that was me. You know, it's hard to believe that it's already been over a month since John Cena's final match. And I'm grateful to say that I was able to be there in person in D.C. with some amazing tickets from Seek. and I want to give a huge shout out to Seekkeek for sponsoring this episode. With over 35 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on Seatgeek, including concerts, WWE, sports, festivals, and more.

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Follow and listen on your favorite. Do you think fans are more familiar with your work in WCW or WWA? Well, you know, WWB being more recent, but I think the fans that really remember me as Johnny B. Bad, that was obviously my favorite character because a wild man Mark Merrill, it was like I didn't, you got to really relate to what you're doing in the ring as far as the character goes, you know. I learned how to wrestle and thanks to friends like, you know, Dallas that we'd go down to the power plant here in Atlanta and work on our matches. I learned how to wrestle will go out.

I became one of the most improved wrestlers out there. But having that great gimmick, the Johnny Bebant character, how do you hate this guy? He's shooting confetti guns throwing frisbys, loving, kissing babies, you know? And it's just a fun character, you know. Then going to the WWE and becoming Wild Man Mark Merrow, it just, everything just really changed. So when you became Wild Man Mark Merrow,

Vince McMahon asked you if you could do a Tarzaniel. Yes. Okay. That's a, well, what happened was I think they, they were thinking they would get kind of a knockoff of Johnny B. back.

Something similar like they do with some of the characters, you know, but because the lawsuits were really going back and forth now. Remember, guys are jumping ship. You'll see one guy on Raw one week and next week, and next week he's on Nitro or something. So it wasn't going to happen.

So they had to completely change my character. And, of course, I'm trusting them. Whatever they're going to come up with is going to be great. I mean, they made The Undertaker. They made all these great characters, right? I remember they flew me in for, um, um, to talk about what they're going to have me do.

And we sit around a table and Vince looks at me, goes, Mark, what do you think of a wild man, Mark Merrow? I go, what's a wild man? He goes, can you do a Tarzan, yell? I thought. they know what they're doing. I go, Vince, I don't have a very strong voice, and I cannot do it Tarzaniel.

He goes, all right, we're going to go with Wildman Mark Merrow, and I go, okay, am I from the jungle? Or what am I? You know, I'm doing this, you know, two-de-fruity character in WCW coming out. Now, where am I from, you know? So it was very hard for me to relate to, which the audience doesn't relate.

too. So it was very hard. And not only that, you know, they hired my wife Sable is my valet. And now you got this beautiful woman going to the ring with you and what are they going to cheer for? You know, so it was a, it was very difficult right off the bat, but they really wanted to push me and give me a, you know, some momentum. So they have me entered this intercontinental tournament where I had to beat Owen Hart, Stone Cold, Steve Austin, Ron Simmons. I mean, these are some top guys that they're putting you over to win the intercontinental title. So I was thinking now they're really going to start giving me that push. I always dreamed about why I went to the WWF or WWE.

And, you know, the next thing you know, I'm wrestling the fake diesel, the fake razor, T.L. Hopper, the goon, you know, guys that, you know, a wonderful guys and good workers, but they're not the guys that is going to take you up the ladder in the WDL. BF. What shifted? You know, and that's the thing that maybe it's a great question for Vince, you know, I don't know.

You know, maybe my confidence wasn't there. I thought, you know, it was very hard for me to work with guys. First of all, this is really kind of hard to talk about in a sense is that I wasn't well liked. And my whole life, people had a lot of

friends. I was always popular in sports captain of my teams. And then you go into this new organization where you're not very well-liked, and you didn't really understand why. Well, come to find out later, I got this guaranteed contract. I have my wife flying everywhere I'm flying, so I'm not hanging out with the guys, not going to the bars. I'm not, you know, staying up and doing things with those guys are hanging out with guys,

and I'm with my wife all the time. And then I start realizing that no one really wants to work with me, and you're kind of an outcast. And it's the worst feeling in the world. So is this, is it jealousy? You know, part of it is, I guess, you know, when you think about Stone Cold Steve Austin and Mick Foley just came in months before me

for an opportunity. Next thing you know, I'm the first guy that gets this not only guaranteed contract, a big signing bonus on top of it. How did you negotiate this guaranteed contract because I believe it was the first one that Vince McMahon had ever given out? Right.

So how did it come about that you were able to convince him to do this? What happened was three years before this, Vince flew me to New York after my second contract with WCW was up. And we had dinner together at his house and had a great conversation. And he said to me, what's going to take to bring you to the WWF? I said, Vince, I got a three-year guaranteed contract waiting for me at WCW and a signing bonus. and I would need that if I'm going to come to the WW. And he says, you know, Mark, we'd love to have you,

but we don't give guaranteed contracts. We give opportunities. And I said, well, then I can't come. And we shook hands. There was no arguing. There's no animosity. It was like, it's really giving me a hug. They took me in the airport and I left.

Three years goes by. And next thing you know, my contract is up again. and Vince says, what's going to take to bring you at WWF? I go, Vince, you got to give me a guaranteed contract. And he goes, I've never done that before. I go, well, that's what I got to have because I got another three-year guaranteed contract with WCW. And he goes, okay, I go, well, I also have a signing bonus there. He goes, okay, is that it?

Well, Vince, I'd like my wife to fly everywhere I fly. I just got married not too long ago. It was like, we just got married two years before this. And I've seen so many divorces in the wrestling industry. Was she in the business at this point? No, no. She'd never, you know, she stayed at home mom for her daughter, Mariah. And he said, wait, you want your wife to fly everywhere.

You fly. Well, yeah, Vince, I see too many divorces. And I just want her to go where I go. But since she's going with me, why don't we make her my valet? He goes, no, no, no. He goes, let's just worry about you. And so he agrees to all the, all the demands I had, guaranteed contract, signing bonus, and my wife would fly where I flew.

So we're excited about this. And then he sends me the ticket to fly to New York to go over the new character, but he only sends one ticket. So I call him, I have a cell phone. I call him, I go, Vince, I got the ticket, but there's only one here. He goes, how many did he need? I go, well, my wife's supposed to fly everywhere I fly. He goes, to sign a.

contract? And I said, yes. So he sends another ticket. We fly in. And that's when he said, when we're walking into his office, he goes, I got to put her on TV. And that's when we came with that name that day. We went through a bunch of names. We came up with the name her and I disabled. That was the first time he met her? That first time Vince ever met her. He was like, that looks like a wrestling character. That looks like something we got to put on TV. Because I remember, they're flying her everywhere anyways. Yeah. So why not, you know, put her to work? Yeah. And it could be your valet and make it work.

And that's how we both signed our contracts. And you're right. Like you go out there with her. They want to cheer for her. Yeah. And what does this do for your character? But you know what? Here's the thing that a lot of people maybe don't realize.

Like, when you're married and you're in love, you're a team. Sure. And I'm thinking, I'm getting guaranteed money no matter what. If she gets her, like she starts building her character up, She's going to make a lot of money and merchandise and so on, right? And sure enough, you know, the more I did to lower my profile, the more her profile raised, you know. Of course, things like, you know, to have her come out in a potato sack or something, she'd rip it off and have a bikini on.

And we were doing this over and over again where she was always one step ahead of me, you know. And until we came down to actually having to wrestle against each other and she's sable by me. and I was ready to go into a program with Steve Austin too, which, you know, that's the top of the food chain right there. And when she's able to me, now, I basically, you know, she's a good athlete, but I basically save upon myself. It looks clean. Yeah.

But it took me out of the program with Steve, because Steve thought if a girl's going to do that to him, I'm not going to let him get in the ring with me, you know, which people would be like, oh, you blew the opportunity. But remember, now I'm raising her profile. We're living home. They're backing up the brink struck to our house at this point. You know, so when you're a team like that, you just, you just, you know, I'm going to make

the same amount of money whether I get really popular or not. So I took that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, move or that opportunity and did that. How quickly did you realize she was much more popular than your character? Very quickly. But it was fun because when I became marvelous, Mark Merrill became the heel. Yeah. It was all perfect. Well, it worked perfectly for that gimmick.

Yes. Right, right. But the wild man character, you know, even though I'm going to the ring and they're basically cheering for her, you know, it's like, wow, I really, how am I going to get over, you know, but this, so we changed it up and then that's, and it worked out perfectly how, and then they had a teacher how to wrestle. Now Vince wants her to put her into wrestling and bring the woman's title on her. How quickly did Vince want to now be part of the storyline? Because there was a romantic angle with Vince McMahon and Sable. Well, that was after she went back after we left the. company, that's when we were going through our breakup. You know, she decided to go back to the WWF, and I didn't want to go back to wrestling. And so I was kind of a stay-at-home mom with our daughter Mariah, and she went back on the road. And that's how, you know, she met Brock, and

that's how that all ended in divorce. How did you find out about that? Well, I've told the story before, but what happened was every night before, she'd be traveling all over the country, all over the world, but every night she would call home to talk, you know, tuck in Mariah for say good night to both of us, you know. And it just seems weird that the calls were becoming less and less. And, you know, and Mariah wouldn't get to talk to her mom, so she'd be a little upset that, you know, I didn't get talked to mom today or nothing, you know. How old your daughter at this point? I think she was around. I would see, maybe 12, you know.

And so she was not calling as much. And I remember I got really upset because I'd call her and just go to voicemail. So I called up and I just left this really nasty message. Like, you know, why don't you? What is wrong with you? Your daughter's upset. I'm upset. And then I felt really bad because I know what it's like being on the road.

And so we have each other's a combination to get into the phones so I can call back and delete my message. So I press in the code to get into her phone and it says, you have two unheard messages. And so I got to listen to this first message first, which was a male's voice talking about their night before. And an apologizing to her and, you know,

It was just really just heartbreaking. Like she's with somebody else. And I didn't say nothing about it. I just kept it on the phone. And then when I picked her up at the airport, I said, who is this? And I played it. And she just said, I want a divorce.

And that was it. And we, we, we, she moved out. And that's when, you know, my life kind of went, started going south. At what point did you find out it was Brock Lesnar? It was later on. I mean, it was a while. She never would tell me who it was.

Yeah. And, you know, the amazing thing about forgiveness is, like, people say, well, how do you forgive somebody? And for me, it's real easy. It's like when they mention her name, I don't get angry anymore, you know? And I wish them the best. They got great kids. And my life couldn't be better. Like, I think about all the paths that I've taken since then led to right where I am today,

talking to Chris, but right to where I am today, married to the most incredible woman, my life partner, I couldn't be happier or more blessed to have Melissa in my life. And if all those paths didn't happen the way they did, it wouldn't depend what it is today. So everything that maybe I lost, I got back, and I got back even more in a sense. that I couldn't imagine being more content, more blessed in my life than I am right now. You wrote in your book that you think that Sable should be inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame.

Oh, absolutely, yeah. She did something in the women's division when they didn't really have a woman's division so much back then at all, but she brought eyes to the channels, you know, the ratings and everything were very high because of her. It's amazing that she's not in it.

Actually, as we sit here and think about it, She was so iconic in that era. Also, I think it has a lot to do with, you know, she's always wanted to be in the spotlight, and then she had a big part of the spotlight, and then getting married, and they live a very private life. I mean, we still share our daughter, you know.

Mariah was just here not too long ago, stayed with me with our granddaughter, Sophia. But she just stays out of the spotlight, and that's what they chose. And because, you know, she doesn't do wrestling conventions, or she's, I don't think she's ever at Raw or Smackdown with Brock. But that's just what they choose. And you got to respect that from her.

Do you think it's because she sued WWA? No, because remember, she went back after she sued WWE, you know? And unfortunately, you got caught up in that. Oh, my, I just signed a brand new three-year contract at that time for, and back then. I mean, think about the late 90s, $350,000 a year and goes up $25,000. That's a lot of money. It's over a million dollars that I walked away from. A lot of money in general.

To go with her. And so the idea was that we would go to Hollywood for one year. She wanted to get into acting. I mean, she was on top of the world with all the magazine covers that she did and things like that. So she was very popular, everybody knew who she was. So we thought it's a shoe in to get into Hollywood, which isn't always true. So sometimes tougher than people think.

it is. So we got a place in Studio City. We decided to do it for one year. Let's rent this place for one year and we still got our home in Florida. So I'm going back to Florida while she's staying in Studio City trying to get into acting. And she got some small gigs, but nothing, nothing that really made it. And I remember her telling me, she said to me, what do you think about me going back to the WWF? I said, are you kidding me? They will kill you. I mean, you sued him for over a hundred million dollars and we had to settle out of court and they they can't stand you you got on all these talk shows and talk down to them and no you can't you can't she goes and she goes she goes um and i said Vince will never take your phone call and she goes he already did I was heartbroken

thinking how can you do that and she called him and the the plan was she had to go back and apologize to some of the top guys that were really didn't want her back at that time but you know undertaker or shan or triple h or whoever that she had to go back and that was part of the deal you know and so i'm supporting her believing you know that's what she needs to do you know so we're having our friends over for like monday night raw parties you know and it was like a you know cheering her on you know and then seeing some of the storylines just got really out there you know um being vince's concubine or something, you know, I don't know what that was, you know. And then, of course, obviously, the story I just told you about what happened was it went south.

Did she talk to you about the storyline with Vince? No, I mean, she's just thinking it's just acting, you know, I'd have to do this if I was in a movie or something like that. So, yeah, but it would just didn't sit right with me. You know, didn't look right, didn't sit right. And it just was not good. Was the door open for you? to go back to WWA that? I had no desire to go back there.

You know? You were done with it? No, I thought I was. But then, you know, I did do some stints at TNA for a little while. And then, of course, I was friends with Hulk, so they started the ex-WF. And I tried that, you know, for a little while. And then I had my last match in, like, 2006, and then hung up the gloves. How did you?

Of course, gloves. How did you know you were done? You know, I've had 14 surgeries. And anybody that's in the business, and Chris, you know that anybody that's been in the business for a long time has usually had knee operations and shoulders and elbows and everything. Yeah, it's crazy to think that it's not a matter of if you get injured. It's a matter of when you get injured. Yeah, yeah. But see guys like AJ Stiles have gone, you know, almost nonstop for so many years, you know, and guys that Chris Jericho, they're just amazing how their longevity is, you know.

But it just, your body gets really bad. broken down, you know. And then obviously having, uh, my final surgery was the open heart surgery where I had a new valve put in. So I realized that my, my wrestling days are, are over. Do you think you've had a Hall of Fame career? You know what? It's, if you want to look at my, my W.D. Beth's stint, you know, but, uh, if you want to look at, um, things I've done with WCW is Johnny B. Bad. We're very entertaining. Um, you talk about, three time US champ. Yeah. TV champ, sorry, three-time TV champ. What I've done after wrestling, like, could you imagine?

Like, I often thought, like, here I am doing 230 schools, you know, events a year all over the country, all over the world. I've been to Russia, Guatemala, speaking at schools, Canada. And I thought, you know, the WF or WVU is trying to, like, they had a program called Be a Star or something, where they might have a wrestler go to a school, you know. But it's like a guy that you see on TV and you just go crazy over the guy, but you're not giving a story. you know, where I'm going there and really touching students' hearts and changing lives. I always thought, why don't they partner with me on this? You know, how cool would it be if WWE partnered with me and did schools and we started programs

all over the country that we kept a program in the school, a WWE scholarship program or something that we could do, you know? It would have been so wonderful to do something like that, and they just had no interest in working with me. I feel like you'd be the perfect recipient for the warrior. award. Yeah, you know, something like that would be wonderful, you know, and if I ever did, I, DDP would be the guy that induct me, you know. I feel like DDP's inducting so many people. It's the best. We have the, we have the most competitive, fun relationship because we've wrestled

each other so many times, but more than that, it's push-up contest, it's pull-up contest, it's ab contest. We're just like two little kids, man, you know, we're getting up in our late 60s year, we're still challenging each other, you know? I will never look past an opportunity to put over DDP. He's such a good friend. He's such a good person. Like, I think the world's a better place because GDP's in it. Absolutely, man.

You know, we both found our calling after wrestling in a sense. Yeah, you guys are two of the very few examples who have had a better career after wrestling. And both of you had amazing wrestling careers. But you think of the obvious ones like The Rock, Batista, John Cena. But when you think beyond them, like you and Dallas are right at the top of that list. Yeah. Well, thank you. We just have so much fun. You know, when I see him, his number come up my phone, I know I've got to have at least a half hour to 45 minutes. There's no way you can just go, so hey, how you doing today? And then hang up, you know, it's like we have so much to share all the

time with each other. And, you know, especially me getting married now, you know, and, you know, wanting to spend time with him and his wife. So it's just really cool. An interesting fact about you is you were part of the Rock's WWE debut match. I was. Survivor Series 1996. Yes. I was the captain of the team. And, you know, the plan was obviously Rock was going to win the match and stuff. But it was great. A lot of people, Rock is such an amazing guy. I mean, we got along so well. You know, I mean, he's brand new in the company. And I was there for just a little while longer before he was there.

But a lot of people might know this about him, though, but he used to come and grab me, and we'd pray together before a match, which I always remembered was a really cool thing, you know, like his faith was really strong. And I hope it continues to be strong. I hope it is. I haven't talked to him in a long time,

but I know he's, obviously he's doing amazing, you know. Did you see that charisma in him during that debut match that we ended up seeing later? I don't think anyone saw it the way it turned out to be. He just found confidence and it kept, it was like a snowball effect. It just kept getting bigger and bigger, you know, and seeing him, oh, just create this amazing character, man.

It was so much fun. I mean, he was one of the most fun guys to watch. You know, when you put that microphone in front of him, it was like, you don't know what was going to come out of his mind. Right. I had Christian on my show not long ago. Yes. And he said that you stole the TKO from him.

Well, you know, it's funny that Christian said that. When I blew out my knee, I need a total reconstruction of my knee. When my knee started getting better, red heart offered me to go to Calgary and rehab it at the dungeon, the famous heart dungeon. And I couldn't wait, so I got a plane ticket. I went up there to rehab my knee. And I met Christian Edge Test. these are young guys trying to get into the business, you know. And so we're all working out together.

And apparently he was doing a move similar to that. Maybe he showed me at the time or whatever. But when I found that move was actually from Diamond Dallas Page. And anyone could call Dallas and ask him because he'll remember the conversation. What happened was Dallas would do the diamond cutter out of nowhere. You know, he just come out. That was so cool about it. You just never know what he was going to do it.

Well, he did one into a fireman's carry into the diamond cutter. And I needed a new move because, remember, come back from rehab from knee surgery. I'm doing this wild thing off the top rope landing on my knees. You know, so I needed something where I could be more stationary. So I saw DELs do it on television. I called him right up. I go, hey, DDP. That move is amazing, man, the fireman's carrying to the diamond cutter.

I go, do you mind if I use that on WWF television? And I had to come with a name, so I come with the name TKO, total knockout. And he goes, absolutely, bro, man, man. You don't have to ask me, just take it, you know? And that's when I started using it. And then when I saw the video of Christian saying, I stole his move. Well, first he said he gave me the move. Well, Christian said you took him out to dinner.

Yeah. Like, he did the move. Right. And then you took him out to dinner and you said, hey, I'm about to go back. Would it be okay if I did that move? And he's like, yeah, all right. one of my stories say, right? Yeah, that's what he remembers.

And, you know what? Christian, I love you, man. He's such a great guy, you know. And maybe that is true, that he showed me that move, but I don't remember it or, you know, because when I saw Dallas, do I go, oh, my gosh. Well, it worked out because Christian does the unprettier perfectly. Like, that move fits him so well.

Yes, yes. And I don't know if Christian would have been able to do the TKO on everybody in WWE. Well, you know, the funny thing was, is that when I first started doing it, they put me on the road with Rakey. I got to tell you this story because he was the sultan back then. That's right. He was a son.

And when you pick up a guy that's almost 400 pounds, right, I remember starting the tour with Rikishi. I was about six foot tall. By the end of the tour, I was like 5'4 because every time I picked him up, I'd feel my back go down a couple notches. Were you giving him the TKL? I had to give him every night, yeah, because I would beat him as the Sultan. Yeah. But the way we did it, though, wasn't me just picking him up. I would throw him off the rope, so I had a little momentum coming in.

So even heavier when you pick him up and he just comes down on your shoulders, it would be like, I feel I would hear my back go. So, but anyways, yeah, that was a, it's a good move to do because it wasn't put me up by the top rope anymore, or at least not as much anymore. But that's a tough move to do because you can't do it to everybody. Like, could you do that to the big show? No, no way, no way. And the great thing about a move like the impritory.

for example, you can do that on anybody. It doesn't matter how big or small they are. Yes, yeah. But anyways, I'm glad we straighten that out. When did the Shooting Star Press become a move that was in your rotation? Well, because when I first came to the WWBF, I didn't have a finishing move.

And my first match ever was against, believe it or not, it was Glenn Jacobs. First match ever. He was Dr. Isaac Yankham. Remember that? Yes. The dentist. Yeah.

And so the way I beat him, I think it was a sunset flip off the top rope. You know what I mean? It was like I didn't have a, I had a lot of moves, but they weren't finishing moves. So I had to come up with something that was a little different. And when I was in Japan, I remember who it was.

I don't know if it was just Jut, Liger, Jusian Thunder Lager. Yeah, Juschen Thunder Lager. I think it was him that did the shooting star press that I saw in Japan. I go, wow, that is a cool move. You know, now as a kid, I used to be on the diving board all the time, doing doubles and stuff.

So I had some trajectory I could do, you know. Well, anyways, I didn't know, it never did it off the ropes before, you know, like where do you practice something like that, you know? They weren't some resident schools all over like there are now. So I went to my daughter's gymnastics class with her. And while they were on the other side of the gymnastics doing like the bar or the, what they call it, the uneven bars or whatever, you know, I would take a pommel horse and a, crash pad and I'd get up on it and I would do the little flip and I had to land on my stomach.

Remember, this isn't like you land on your feet. You got to land on your stomach to cover the guy in your hands and knees got to go on each side of them. Well, the kids start watching me and they're going, they're all laughing because they see me land on my stomach and I think I'm doing great. I go, yes. They're like, the kids are all cracking up because he's a gymnast a gymnast, you're supposed to land on your feet. Yeah. So anyway, that's how I came up to move. But now, fast forward now, the first time I ever tried it was live, not only live, but, it was SummerSlam pay-per-view. Never did it in my life on the ropes or in the ring.

And my opponent was Gold Dust. And Dustin is one of the greatest guys. Have you interviewed Dustin yet? Yes, I love Dustin. He's the greatest guys. He goes, so we're kind of walking through our match at SummerSlam. I got this new move I wanted to try it today. And he goes, sure, he was, what is it?

I go, well, I'm going to like Samoan drop you kind of near the corner. I'm going to go to top rope. I'm going to do a flip and open up and land out. He goes, how are you going to do the flip? I go, I'm going to go backwards. And he goes, I don't want to know anymore. Just do it. He didn't want to think about it.

And you were confident you could land it and not land on the guy? I'm just like that. I'm a adrenaline junkie. And I just said, I'm going for it. And I remember dropping him in the corner, I go, oh, my gosh. And I got to the top rope. And remember, WWF ropes are much different than WCW. WCWs were like cables.

They're very, you can. You could really jump off those. WWF's ropes would get very loose sometimes. I remember getting up there going, oh my gosh, I got to really fly to get this thing to get my trajectory momentum up in the air. And I remember just going, here I go. And I went for it.

And luckily, I landed it perfect. And I've never hurt anybody with that move. The only one I even hit hard one time was Droz. One time I did it with him and my knee, hit him a little bit on the side of the head. But that guy was, I remember going back. from going, man, I am so sorry. He goes, what?

He's like, didn't phase him, you know? What's the scariest moment you've ever had in the ring? I remember wrestling Raven, or he was Scotty Flamingo with WCW. We were wrestling at the Omni in Atlanta, and I believe it was Christmas Day. They used to have to do it on Christmas Day. And we were doing a match. I remember, or maybe it made Thanksgiving. I can't remember.

It was a holiday, but I got knocked out in the match. somehow whatever I don't remember what I hit how how I got hit or whatever but I was out and now I'm supposed to win the match and and I don't even know where I am I don't know who I am you know I mean I was I was concussed and somehow or another Scotty pulled me on top of them for the one two three and when I went back to the dressing room I didn't even know where I was I didn't know I didn't know I wrestled. You know, that's how bad it was. Wow. Yeah. So that was probably the scariest moment. The most painful moment was I was doing these planches over the top rope and landing on the guy. And I threw Dallas out of the ring and he's on the floor. And when I went over the top

rope, he wasn't ready for me yet. And he was on the ground and he had his knee up. And I'd never forget my ribs hit any of his knee. And it didn't break my ribs. What it did was it tore the cartilage open. It is more painful than breaking your ribs is what I've been told later on, but I couldn't breathe. And the next move we did was, I threw him in the ring. We got to do a tilt the world back breaker. And I'm thinking, I came and breathe. It hurts so bad, you know. And Delis goes, tilt the world. I'm like, oh my gosh, because he's already going off the ropes, you know. He's coming at me. I go, you better spin yourself. And he did. He's just, we were so good together, you know. and but we had to end that match quickly.

Do you remember what the original pitch was for Brawl for All. Don't even remember what it was. I also remember what was, I got a call from, I don't know if it was Pritchard or Vince. I think it was Vince that called me. And he says, we're going to do this thing now where we're to have the guy's fight and take down kind of like a tough man contest. And he said, you know, every time he do it, I think it was $5 or $10,000 extra on, top of your salary. And I didn't blink it. I think no problem. Okay. You know. It's perfect for you with the boxing background. Well, you would think so. But remember, I've already had five shoulder

surgery, five elbows. I didn't have the speed or the power I had as a young 20-year-old boxer, you know? So my, my, but, but the thing I did still have was, um, I had amazing ability to slip punches. Like, no, nobody, no one could really hit me, you know, so the only way I can really lose if I get taken down. Well, they put me in there with, to take down. King, you know, the state black men. And he took me down over and over, and I remember that son of a gun, you know,

it never got hurt or anything like that. But he blew out his knee. And so next thing I know, I got my money for the fight, and they called me back. They go, guess what? You're back in the brawl?

I go, great. It's not our 10 grand or whatever. And they told me I'm wrestling Bradshaw, which I'm going to be really honest. I couldn't stand Bradshaw back then. I didn't think a lot of people couldn't because he was a bully. And when we wrestled each other, he didn't like me, and he would take liberties on me. He would, like, power bomb me so hard where I thought,

I thought my lungs were to come through my chest. It would hurt so bad, you know, and I didn't like him. So they told me how to fight Bradshaw. I was like, yes, I want to fight that guy so bad, you know. And Bradshaw calls me and says, hey, man, you know, if you, if you bow out, then I get to fight this guy. And, you know, you're kind of out of it anyways. You're, you know, I go, no, I want to fight you. And so he knew I had no fear of him, you know. And so we obviously, it's three rounds. We do our three rounds.

They call it a draw. Like, he took me down, but I hit him better shot. So they call it a draw. And then remember, they're ready to take off the gloves and everything and put the gloves back on. We're going one more round, you know. So we had to fight one more one. We're the only ones that did four rounds in that three. Because you needed a winner.

Yes. And they gave him the decision, which was in Cleveland. the place just was booing thinking that I won the fight. It's the concept of this. I want to say this to this. Bradshaw, we couldn't stand each other back then. I love that guy. I mean, when I say that, meaning that what he has done after his wrestling career with building wells for over in Africa somewhere, I believe, he's helped so many people. And I can't, like if I see him now,

just give a big hug or something, you know? Like, there's no animosity or no bitterness. But back then, you know, and what I love about going to wrestling conventions is like, guys you made didn't like back then or didn't hang out with, it's like, everybody's like, we did something that not many people in this world could do. Yeah. And so it's this camaraderie that you have, this unspoken word that you just see someone, you go, hey, how's going, you know?

So how long did it take you to get to that point with Bradshaw? Yesterday. No, I'm just kidding. No, years ago. man. He actually, we kept in touch through social media and wrote some nice letters to each other. It's really cool. But the concept of Brawl for all is crazy that like you guys are going in there fighting for real and then the winner gets served up to Butterbean. Yes. Yeah. And the thing was is that one of the dumbest ideas because I'm one of the only

guys that never got hurt doing it. You know, I mean, almost everybody really got hurt pretty bad. Bar-gun got knocked out. It ruined his career. It ruined Dr. Death's Steve Williams' career. You know, so you take two of these top guys that now didn't have a career really after that, you know? Bark Gunn was like this tough guy that's knocking out of guys, you know, hurting guys and wrestlers. And then you go against this. And see, Butterbean hits like a mule.

I mean, he just got this right hand that could kill anybody, right? I know this. I'm a boxer, you know. When I sparred with Butterbean, he had real trouble hitting me because of my elucinness, you know? and I could move on my feet. I knew how to move that out away from his power punch, you know, just from years of boxing.

And knowing that, he's going to nail, he's going to, he's going to destroy Bart when he hits him. And sure enough, here he is ready to go to the next level, probably being a program with Steve, you know,

make a lot of money. And they put him in this match with Butterbean. And, wow, I mean, not many people seeing a guy getting knocked out that bad. Yeah. And he's a great guy, too, man,

you know? I really liked a bard. You inspire so many people, Mark. I'm curious who inspires you. Wow, that's a great question. You know, oh, man. I mean, people like Dallas, I don't want to sound weird or anything,

but my wife, like I've watched her with kids. And when I see someone else treat people better than they want to be treated, it inspires me. So I love, I don't know, I love people that help other people. That's, I always just want to be better than I was yesterday type thing, you know, just always want to treat people good. I treat people better than they treat me, you know.

I always think of that, like people treat me really good. I want to up them, you know, I want to let people know. I'm at a place of my life where I love telling people that I love them or I care about them or I'm there for them. and I get hundreds of messages every day. My wife helps me with them because we get so many messages from kids. You know, we read them to each other. Then we have to respond to these kids because, you know,

we're talking about the kids that are writing to, a lot of them write to you just tell you what a great presentation, but you get the kids that are self-harming, the kids that don't want to be here no more. The kids have been bullied most of their life. The kids that have no relationship with their parents, they just want to be heard. They just want to know somebody cares.

And that's what we do. You've dropped so much wisdom during this conversation. You've dropped so many great quotes. What's a quote you always come back to or one that maybe guides your life? Well, you know, one of the things that I think about is life is short, live it. Love is rare, grab it. Anger is bad, dump it. Fear is awful.

Face it. Memories are sweet. Cherish it. That's good. I've watched your Mother's Day video so many times. I cry every time. How are you able to deliver it? Everybody in the audience is crying.

How are you able to tell such a sentimental, heart-wrenching story and not break down? You know, I'll be honest. I tear up at almost every single one of my presentations, not because I'm telling the story. It's seen a student in the audience. and thinking what could they be going through. And because I have to relive the moment of me walking up to my mom's casket. That's how I do it every single time.

I really relive that moment of walking up to her cask because I didn't, first of all, I was staying so far back because I couldn't walk up to it. And so many people came out to say goodbye to my mom. The line was so long. So they like started having groups of people going up to her and saying goodbye and praying over and everything. And all the all I did was look from a distance, but I kept thinking to myself, mom please wake up please get up and then i finally had the nerve to walk up to her and as i got closer

chris i could see my mom for the first time i mean she looked so beautiful she was dressed in white she she looked like an angel and i remember just stand over and i just said mom you are my hero everything i am everything i hoped to be was because of you you you love me so much you gave me a life you work two jobs. You're the only one that ever believed in me. And how do I repair by getting drunk, by getting high, by getting stupid, by hanging out with friends that could care less? They didn't come to the funeral.

You know, and it was just, uh, and the greatest thing, Chris is I can't tell you how many letters I get from, from kids that tell me they went home and told their parents, they loved them, or letters from moms and dads that, I got one funny one from my mother recently that said, my daughter came home school today, and she said, I want to start having dinner with you and dad. And she's being nice to her little brother. What the hell did you say? And those are the great things that happened on tour.

You had already written a book before. Yes. Not a biography, but a book. How to Be the Happiest Person on the Planet. What a great title. And then Dallas comes along that son of a gun. How to be the second happiest person on the planet? What's the key?

How do you, how do you be the happiest person on the planet? be the happiest person. Oh, it's a choice. You know, it really is. It's, it's very easy because once you all turn it up, you know what I mean? I choose to be happy every day. And it's just, it's just the way I am. It's just the, really bad things happen to all of us, but that means we don't have to live in it. We don't have to keep rehashing it over and over again, you know. There's things in life we can't control. Can't control the stock market. We can't control the weather, there's just things you can't control. I can't control the way someone's going to act,

but I know I can control me. It's not how we, it's not the circumstance or situations, how we respond to it that makes all the difference. John Sina told me three words that I think about every single day. Control the controllable. And it's exactly what you're talking about, but I'd never heard it distilled down so simply

into three words like that. But I think about it every single day. You can't control what other people say. You can't control what other people do, but what you can control is how you react to those things. Yes, yes. What I'm getting at here is now you've come to a point where you wrote this book about your life. What made you decide to write this? Well, you know, I've always wanted to write kind of a biography and really tell my story.

Like, I shared stories in this book that I've never shared. You know, people didn't know I burnt out my house at five years old. Come on now. What was the hardest thing to write about? You know, writing about depression is very hard for me now because of the joy I have in life. It's like rehashing those moments of going through that. But understand you have to go through that to help somebody else. You know, you have to understand your current, and I tell these to people all the time,

your current trial is going to be your future testimony. Like, I never knew I'd be on stage talking about these horrible things that happened to me in life, of all the people in my life that have died. And I just think that by sharing my story or someone sharing their story is going to help another person. Yeah, you share a lot. I do. I do. Were there topics where you were like, I don't know if I want to include that?

Yes, the drug dealing was another tough one, you know. You know, I'm working with the Colombians out of Miami bringing cocaine to New York. You know, it was like this, people would never know that about me. know, and school still let me in? No, geez, there was so many years ago. Were you like, is the statute of limitations up? Okay, we can put that in the book. Yeah, and, you know, and there were certain people I had to get permission to share some

these stories because they were with me. And, you know, one of my buddies, you know, he did seven years in prison that ran with me and never read it on nobody, you know. Did this mend some fences? Like, had you talked to Eric Bischoff before this? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, yes, not only talked to Eric Bishop before this, but seen him in a convention. We have so buried the hatchet.

We hung out together, and he's a great guy, man. You know, he gave me my first really big contract. He believed in me when the Johnny Be Bad character, I think they got rid of Dusty at the time. They had new bookers come in, and it was just all crazy. And he just said, hey, don't go nowhere. I got something special for you and he gave me that first really big contract. Sounds like you've buried the hatch with everybody. Yeah, yeah.

Well, if there's anyone that has something with me, it isn't because I got anything with them. I don't ever want to live with bitterness or resentment. If there's anyone out there that I ever hurt that I haven't apologized to, that if they remind me of it, I would be absolutely, dude. So sorry about that, you know. If you're starting to get down in yourself or you're in a funk, what do you do to do? snap out of it. Oh man, I got, you know, you go to so many of the blessings in your life. You know, it's, it's so hard to stay negative. And being around other positive people. My wife is so positive.

We wake up happy every day. Like, I mean, and then when you start your day like that, it just goes through the day. You know, you're always talking to people and you're happy and they see this energy about you. And it just transpires into other people being happy. You know, they're like, man, you're such a good mood all the time, you know? Yeah. I think about that all the time. I'm so lucky to have the wife that I have, the partner that I have.

Now seeing her as a mother to our kids, it's like, oh, my gosh, I won the lottery. Yeah, yeah. It's the greatest thing to have that person by your side. And there's a perfect example right there. If you ever get down and you just think about that. you know how do you how could you stay down when you could look in your kids eyes your wife or i look at the back of my phone and i'm like let me get rid of these notifications here but i'm like how could i possibly be upset when i see those faces there of my kids

logan and cooper oh that's so cute yes it's the greatest thing and i think a lot about like little kids are only little kids for such a short period of time so fast almost three years old and 15 months and I'm like, oh, yes. Like, yeah, it flies right by. You know, and especially as I'm getting older now, like, I'm aware of my mortality. I'm aware that, you know, the average person lives to 76, a guy, you know, men. And not that I hope to live much longer than that, but I realize that that life is really passing, I mean, think about this.

It was 30 years ago, I was with WCW. That seems like, yeah, I mean, I talk to fans, it seems like they're, remember these matches that were just seemed like they were yesterday and they were 20, 30 years ago. And so I think about 20 years from now or 30 years from now would be in my 90s. Wow. You know, so I really am enjoying this chapter, these last chapters more than anything. And I just live with the rest of your life will be the best of your life. I love that.

When you look back at that guy in WCW, do you still see you? I see it was a real playful character, you know, and I'm always joking around. I'm always silly, I guess you'd say, you know. And that character was, I'll never forget, when Dusty Rhodes first was showing me this character, and he says, now here's what I want you to do. He goes, when you walk up to that microphone,

you say, I'm so pretty, I've been born, a little gal. I go, oh, Dusty, really? He goes, yeah, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. You had me practice it, right? And I go up to my brother and go, I'm so pretty. I should have worn a little girl. He goes, no, you guys, I'm a little girl. I was like, oh my gosh.

Now, I got to tell you this, Chris. My dad, who was a detective in New York at the time, right? All his friends are police officers. They used to go and watch me fight knocking guys out. Go to the Golden Gloves and they'd all the police officers. My dad's friends would be there and stuff, you know. And so my dad, When I first got my contract, you know, I was at the CNN Center and I was waiting for

just to meet with Dusty Roads. And so they finally said, go on and see Dusty. I go in his office and he's on the phone and a really deep conversation. And so I'm standing his desk and he goes, hold on. He goes, hey, kid, he has a contract, take it home, have you a turn this, look it over and get back to me. And he gets back on the phone. And I got this contract.

And I'm looking at it. And Chris, I turned the page and says 75 the first year, 150 the second year. But with merchandise, everything you're going to make about six figures your first year. And I'm thinking, I'm making $23,000 busting my butts, digging swimming pools, right? So I go, excuse me, Dusty. He's kind of annoyed now. He goes, what? And I go, do you mind if I just sign this year?

I don't even have an attorney. And he goes, welcome to WCW. Now, Chris, I can't wait to call my father. Now, my dad is a Jew from New York, okay? My dad was from Brooklyn, okay? So he talked like this. Like, Mark, he is a dollar. You know, that's how my dad would talk.

So there's three things I say you don't do. You know the old saying. You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't spit in the wind. You don't call a Jew collect. Okay. See, I have no money. on me, right? So I got to call my father collect. My dad would not take a collect phone call.

So I call up, and this is back in 1991 where they'd say, you'd say, click call from and you say your name. Yeah. And they go, click call from. I go, dad, don't hang up. It's an emergency. And he goes, okay, I go, I'll take it. He's Maulk, what's up? I go, dad, you're not going to believe this. I'm at the CNN Center and I just signed a contract with WCW wrestling. And he goes, he pauses and He doesn't say a word. He goes, Mark, I always do someday. My son was going to make it. And he goes, what do they got you doing?

I go, well, Dad, they got me doing this Little Richard game. He goes, Little Richard, is that that gay black guy? And I go, yeah, but Dad, they're paying me $100 grand a year. He goes, oh, I always liked that Little Richard. What a story. Yeah. It's been so great finally having you on the show. Thank you, Chris.

Congratulations on getting married. Yes. Congratulations on the book. I'm sure a lot of people after hearing this conversation are going to want to go check it out. Yeah, bad to good on Amazon. I'm going to end this interview with the question I ask everybody. You love gratitude. I love gratitude.

It's a guiding force in my life. I wake up every day and with my wife Rachel, we say out loud three things we're grateful for. Doesn't matter how tired we are. We do it before going to bed. What are three things you're grateful for right now? Number one, first and foremost, my relationship with Christ. Number two, my wife, and number three, my health. Most important things.

I love that. Mark, thank you so much. Thank you, Chris. You take care. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about.

You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.