Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mat Franco Reinvents Magic And How He Won America's Got Talent

Episode Date: February 8, 2022

Mat Franco (@matfranco) is a magician and the winner of the ninth season of America's Got Talent. He has a residency at the Linq Las Vegas with his show called "Magic Reinvented Nightly" has a residency. He joins Chris Van Vliet at the Blue Wire Studios to talk about how he first became fascinated by magic at age 4, the process of learning his first trick, how he creates magic tricks now, his experience on America's Got Talent and winning season nine, his favorite magic movie and then he performs some unbelievable tricks for us! To find out more about Mat Franco visit: http://matfranco.com For more information about CVV and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bleas! Oh, good to see you, my friends. And welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet, and another magical conversation here. Yeah, Matt Franco, joining us inside the incredible Blue Wire Studios at the Wind Las Vegas. And maybe you're familiar with him from America's Got Talent. He was the winner of season nine, actually the first ever magician.

to win the show. He now has a residency at the link on the Las Vegas strip where what he does is nothing short of mind-numbing. Matt's on social media under his name Matt Franco with one T. He also has a great YouTube channel that's closing in on 300,000 subscribers, also under his name, Matt Franco. And if you're not following me already, I'm at Chris Van Vlead on Instagram and Twitter, Chris dot Van Vleet, if you happen to be on TikTok. And I'm also on you. I'm also on YouTube, two channels, the main channel, Chris Van Fleet, and CVV clips where we post the most interesting clips and moments from interviews, just like this. So check them out. And if you're subscribed to one of the channels, it'd be awesome if you could subscribe to both of them.

Our fan of the week is Man 444 who says, I just love you. If you want to laugh out loud and feel smarter and feel the love, then this is the show for you. Well, thank you for that. I read one review on every single episode. They're from Apple Podcasts. If you have an iPhone, they have the reviews on there. So just scroll down to the bottom, click write a review, leave a few words, and we'll shout you out here for free. Also on Spotify, they've got ratings now. So if you could go in there and leave a five-star rating, it would be so appreciated. It'd be so great if you could do that. All right, let's dive into this. Please welcome the magic of Matt Franco. This is going to be a magical conversation. I hope so. I can feel it already. Thank you so much

for coming by. Thank you for having me. You're the third magician we've had on like recently. Amazing. Yeah, Xavier Mortimer, Jen Kramer, and now Matt Franco. Wow. I'm just so curious. Why are people fascinated by magic, do you think? I think there's an element of mystery. I think what people like a lot about it is the element of surprise. Same reason we go to cinema. Same reason we watch TV and live entertainment. It's an element of surprise.

And nowadays, everything you can Google, magic, at least mine, you can't. So that's kind of, there are very few things that you can say that for. I like that you said, your magic, you can't Google, because I think there's a lot of other performers who are doing variations of other people's tricks. Sure, sure. You're doing very original stuff. Everything starts from somewhere. Everything's derivative of something.

And I actually spend a lot of time studying the history of magic and studying sort of lots of old methods and try to make them new again. So when you look back at the old stuff, who really inspires you? Oh, so the stuff I read is usually folks that were around before I was able to see them, for them to inspire me. But growing up, it was Lance Burton, who was a Las Vegas staple for many years, a guy named Bill Malone. who's an amazing close-up magician and Jeff McBride, who is a local to Las Vegas, who now runs actually a magic school. But I'd seen all of those guys and many others

on television growing up. And that was how I got bit by the bug. Yeah, you tell the story about seeing magic on TV for the first time when you were four. Right. Who was it? Well, that I don't know because I was so young. And it was the type of show

where they kind of had like a mix, a hodgepodge of different styles of magic so I just remember seeing magic and wanting to do it. Do you remember what the first trick was? That I did? No, that you saw. And then we'll get to that. It was what you call in magic a manipulation act.

Okay. So like an act where this was really popular in the 90s where a magician would stand on stage, usually silent, but to music. And it was all visual, whether it was a dove act producing birds or cards or any other kind of handheld props, which is actually the most difficult type of magic

because it's based on pure skill. So what was the first trick that you did? I had three. I brought into kindergarten with me for show and tell, and it was a magic wand that shrunk. Okay. And a classic trick with a little ball in a vase that disappears. Very classic trick.

Yeah. And then... I feel like with your hand like that, like one's going to appear right now. Yeah, geez. You don't know. You're not really wearing sleeves. I'm not. Short sleeves.

They are. They can't be used for me. That's why. Ah. There you go. I'm with you, anything's possible. Anything is possible. Exactly. And then the last thing I did was I tried to do thimble magic, which is really ridiculous, because why would a four-year-old have them? Who has thimbles?

Yeah, well, you know, you were doing some sewing, I guess. Right. I guess so. So I had these colored thimbles and I probably didn't have any idea what I was doing because thimble magic is actually really difficult. But I brought them in, nonetheless. At what point did you say to yourself, I want to be a magician when I grow up? Right from the, right at that moment? Right in the very beginning. Before I knew what it meant to make a living, I thought that's what I'm going to do. Yeah, I'm just going to have fun. I had no idea that, you know, you had to work and make money and all of that. I just thought there are other people that do this, so I'll do this. And then as I get older, I realized, oh, there's, you know, show business. Business is the bigger word.

Yeah. So at what point then in your life did you go, I could actually make money doing this? Gosh, I want to say my first paid show. I couldn't tell you my exact age, but I mean, it was probably around 10 or something. What? Yeah, I had to be in. Birthday party? Yeah, I had to be in, you know, fifth grade, roughly.

And I would start doing birthday parties for other kids in my class and things like that. And then I was also doing performances, like, on stage at the high school and the middle school at that time when I was still in elementary school myself. Wow. I was really ambitious. I just loved doing it, so I always wanted to, yeah. I know when any of my friends have learned, you know, some sort of really basic magic trick. Sure. The question that's always followed is, how do you do that?

Right. You hear it all the time. Sure, yeah. And I think, like, when one of my friends does it's like, if they can do it, then, like, I can also do it because it must be that easy. Right, right. When you get to the level that you're at and you get asked, how do you do this all the time, what's your stock answer?

I don't even know how that's done. Usually I just go there. I just kind of shrug it off. Wow. Because usually people don't really want to know, right? They just have no other reaction to have. Like, in comedy, you have that involuntary laughter. Yeah.

In magic, saying how did you do that is almost not voluntary. It just kind of comes out at times. So you're saying they don't actually want to know. That's just the thing. Yeah. How did you do that? Yeah, I think so. I think some people love to know.

I love to know because I feel the more you learn about magic and the more you understand the intricacies of how it's done, the more interesting it becomes. I'm telling you there are many times where the method is more interesting than the trick. Now, I'm not trying to be a tease here, but like that's, it's true. So, but some people feel like it ruins it. But I don't think that's true because I know how it works and it hasn't ruined it for me yet. Well, but for you when you learn, I think it's like it's seeing a different angle of it, right? It's going like when a chef is seeing how a beautiful dish or delicious dish is made, they go, oh, cool. Right.

Maybe I'll try that ingredient next time. Maybe I'll try that presentation next time. Sure. I imagine that you would take more of that approach, whereas like a layman like me goes, how'd you do that? And you go, well, if you really want to know, I did X, Y, and Z, you go, oh. Yes and no. Yes and no. But it usually can't be explained by just going this, this and this.

It's, oh, and by the way, this is why your brain thinks this. This is why when I did that, you didn't see it. And this is how I erased your memory of this because you never logged it in your memory. And here's how I did that. So it's mostly psychology in a way, not just, oh, look, the coin was under the card, right? There's a lot more to, why didn't we see it? We were all surrounding you looking at it. That's the thing.

You know, it's like watching Jimmy Hendricks play the guitar. Yeah. You know, you can have a nice close-up of his hands, and that's essentially a tutorial if you put it in slow motion. How many people can do it, right? I still appreciate it, even though I technically know what notes he's playing and what fret he's in, but it doesn't make it any less amazing to me.

Yeah. I feel the same with skillful magic. So at what age did you realize? Psychology played a really big part of this. it wasn't just like, ta-da. I'm not sure I appreciated that until I was an adult.

I feel like I appreciate that more and more on a regular basis. Yeah. How do you keep pushing the envelope now? Because what you're doing now is amazing. Oh, thank you. And it's unbelievable. But then you keep finding new ways

to amaze people. Sure. I think it's just trying to kind of step into territory that you haven't yet, you know, dabbling with different things that I've always wanted to try. There's sort of an endless,

in magic, you're literally taking things that are impossible and trying to make them possible some way. And you've got to figure out a way to do it. So there's sort of an endless supply of impossible things to try to tackle. So it never really gets boring. So do you have like a list on your iPhone or like a physical list you write out of like, if everything lines up, I could maybe do that thing? Yeah. I wish I was better at organizing these ideas. So I will jot notes into my phone, into a journal, like physically with a pen and paper believe it or not, I'm that old.

Also, I will film things. I will video things on my phone if I have an idea. And I'll explain it. I'll say, okay, here's my idea for this. This is the date. This is the time. And here's what I'm working on.

But a lot of times I don't go back to those notes. I don't have a system for going back. So I'll stumble across them like a year later and go, oh, I remember this. Maybe I'll pick that up. Do you have anything that took you like a ridiculous amount of time to figure out? Unfortunately, it's often the case.

Like, are we talking years? Yeah. Wow. To perfect it? Yeah. So I have things in my current Vegas show that I have written 10 plus years ago that have the method and presentation has changed probably, you know, every couple years up until this moment. Where now I think it's kind of where it needs to be.

But that doesn't mean it's necessarily done. It's not like a musician recording an album and that's what that song sounds like now. It's a living, breathing thing. Well, with the musician, it's like, or same with like a movie director. Someone says, like, it's done. We have to go make this album, make this movie. Right. For you, you could do something one week and keep evolving it throughout the week.

Yes. So then by the time next month comes around, maybe the trick looks different. Yeah, I've even put in a section of the show because at the link, we're doing a full production show. But I put in recently a section that is maybe 10 minutes long and it's around a casino table. and it's complete improvisation. So it's changed several times since we've reopened. It's me surrounded by audience members that are invited up on stage and we put it up on the big iMag and that's my time to do whatever I want to do.

You know, because we're not relying on lighting and cues and automation and all these high-tech things. We're all focused here for right now and I have the ability to just work on what I'm working on, which is like the most fun. So that's literally reinvented every night. So how much do you think your show has changed over the years you've been in Vegas? You know, it's changed quite a bit, but the heart is the same, right? For me, it's a show, it's a version of self-expression and being there with the audience and creating an experience. And when I say that, though, it feels funny because the show's not about me as much as it's personality-based.

It's really about the experience we create together because it's so interactive. So the tricks have involved, the presentations have involved, and the production is certainly evolved. But I like to think that the heart of it stays the same. You're still seeing the same guy. And like how long into your show until you start getting the reaction from the audience of, oh my God, wow.

I would say that's in the first bit, right? You want to come out strong, so I do. And I start out with an interactive piece. I go into a little bit of a middler that just, kind of like sets the tone and then it just ends with a with a big punch that's just even magicians go wait what what did I miss here you know are there still things that you see from some of your colleagues yeah it happens actually I feel like it happens more now than it did before I don't know if information just spreads faster people are getting better or we're able to

see what magicians are doing globally in different countries now but all the time I see you know these young kids online and things um and adults as well and I just just go, wow, that's unbelievable. Because there are so many different genres of magic, which people don't realize. It's not just like music, right? So there are people who specialize in coins. There are people who specialize in stage illusions,

people who specialize in cards, people who specialize in mentalism. And I could keep going. So many different genres. So you're always going to see things that someone dove into that topic more than you ever even thought about it. So there's been time you've seen videos online

and you can't even figure it out? Or in person. What? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely. That's actually amazing. It's really a cool feeling because it doesn't happen as much to me as I would love it to.

So whenever it does happen, it's such a cool feeling. Yeah. Like I think the term of like magic is kind of like it's overused in this world. It's broad, right? Because it could apply to like magic as a job or it could apply to like Disney magic. Right. And I think that sometimes it's overused. Yeah.

like, oh, man, that was a magical moment. Right. Perhaps it was. I don't know, but like, I feel like what you do has that, like, sense of its awe. And I think wonder is the best description of it. Yeah, to give people that sense of wonder. And most of us, as jaded adults, have an experience real wonder in a long time. So to be able to give that to people, honestly, it's really rewarding.

And I enjoy it. I mean, I do what I do for the smiles and the laughs. So the wow and the how did you do that's a fun part of it. for me, it's just about giving people an escape. And magic throughout my entire life has happened to be my outlet to do it. So here we are. I think that everybody has that one moment or perhaps several moments in their life that change their life or the rest of their life.

For you, I'm guessing it was America's Got Talent. Sure. But if we take it back before then, what were the steps along the way you said 10 years old getting paid for your first gig? Yeah. But what were the steps along the way where you were starting to realize that this was a real career for you. I always thought it was a real career. Wow. And then I started like, when I became 16, 17, 18, I started to like understand what real life was and like, oh, wait,

like, is this a viable career? Right. And then you start to question it when, when reality sets in. So when I went to college, I studied marketing business for to support my magic habit. And I figured, well, let's make a go of it. So like even though I knew that it was sort of a long shot, my goal was to just do magic full time. So that was the very first thing that I did as soon as I finished school. What was make a go of it? What did that look like for you? Well, I tackled to the college market at that time. So I thought, you know, how do these guys, how does anyone, especially of thinking about Vegas shows and people who do touring shows, whether it's comedians, magicians, whatever, how do they get so good? And the way I think people get good is flight time and experience,

doing it over and over again. And my problem, as I was, I guess, 22 years old, finishing school, was I would do a library show one day for kids and then a corporate show for business folks and tuxitos, or suits, the next day. And then the next day I would be performing on a college campus for junk people. And then the next day I'd be doing a birthday party. And, you know, it just was never the same show twice.

And I was always having to kind of tailor the material to the environment. so I wasn't getting enough reps in. So I thought, I'm just going to tackle one market. And I was the right age for it. I thought I want to perform for college students. So that's what I did. And I started marketing my show and traveling across the entire country, doing, you know, touring six months a year with my little one-man show.

And that was how I did it. Yeah, because if I'm the president of the student council, the person that's booking guests. Student Entertainment Committee. Yeah. Programming board. Yeah. Yeah.

Who better to bring in to do magic than someone who looks like. one of the students, someone who's about the same age as this. Sure. Yeah, it was a lot of right things happening at the right time, right? Yeah. The right age, the right material, the right kind of everything worked out. And it allowed me to just do the same show every night. And oftentimes getting on a plane doing it, waking up in the morning, flying somewhere else, because I was doing all the bookings myself. So it was never well-routed. It wasn't like I was going from Vermont and Maine and New England. It was like, okay, Wisconsin today, at New Hampshire tomorrow. Back to Wisconsin, Idaho. You know, so it was crazy. But,

It was fun. This sounds like the whole Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours thing. For sure. This is the whole idea of just like, the more you do it, the better you get at it. I think it's why you have to do what you love. I mean, it really is a labor of love because it just takes so much time to develop these ideas and then become proficient at them and then perform them. Never mind the business side.

Just the art alone is so much. So you really, really have to enjoy it. But luckily I do. For a really simple trick. By the way, trick, illusion, am I saying it correctly? I think it's all accurate vernacular. Some people might think trick downplays it or like cheapens it. Yeah.

I don't think so. Okay. I think it's what I do. Okay. Okay. You trick us. Yeah. Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. We experience the magic together. That's true. Experience it together. For a simple one. Yeah. How many hours of work do you think goes into it before?

shows up on stage. You know, define simple because simple could mean, simple is great if you mean premise. Well, I guess I mean the least amount of hours. The hours shrink, the more experience you have. And you've got lots of it. So, yeah, I can take things that are really quite complicated in terms of, I mean, sleight of hand is kind of my thing in a way. It's one of the things that I specialize in and enjoy. And I have experience, you know, with lots of different areas of that so if I can take a complex coin thing and I can pick it up pretty quickly and then shoot it off on Instagram like within a you know an hour of just messing with it and I you know that's a good take and I'll just throw it out there for fun because that's that's fun for me that's not you know

what I'm doing as a business or this it's just it's just what I enjoy so I say the longer you do it the less hours necessarily to pick something up right away right yeah I like that you mentioned Instagram because that's really shifted a lot of people's opinion on magic or at least open it up for a lot of people. Yeah, I think people are now aware that there are more genres of magic because we're exposed to magic more now. So we realize, I don't know, I wonder, I'd be interested to ask someone like what they picture a magician, especially someone like, you know, in grade school. Like, is it a top hat and tails and a bunny still? I hope not. And it might not be actually. Yeah, or even who is it, right? Right. Yeah. Is it, I think a lot of people go,

oh, it's David Copperfield or David Blaine or everyone else named David, I guess. Right, right. Yeah. I actually changed my name to David for a while. That's how you get into Vegas. Yeah. That's the only way to do it. But how much has the internet shifted it for you? I don't know that it's shifted magic for me. It's just given another platform to be able to share magic with people.

I was blown away when I saw that Zach King is one of the most followed people in the world. Right. And that's a whole different type of magic. So Zach King is doing video effects and visual magic without using traditional magic. methods. It's all video editing. And it's amazing. And it looks awesome. And yeah, it's great eye candy. I think your stuff, though, it's right there. It's right in front of us. It's one take. And I think it just leaves you going, there's only 30 seconds. Right. Mine is blown. How did you do this? Sure. Yeah. And that's what Instagram's good for, TikTok, all that stuff. And I share on there

frequently because it's a great place to just kind of share things I'm working on. And then maybe I'll do it again six months later and go, oh, wow, look how different it became now. You see that kind of progress and it's fun. But for me, magic is all about the live experience, you know, Instagram and television in particular, all those things help bring people out to the live shows. And that's where I can really spread my wings and do what I do. The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenburg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really

stake their claimant and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. What did your life look like leading up to America's Got Talent? I was doing the college is full time at that time. So just traveling constantly, being a road warrior. And I was hoping to go on America's Got Talent just to get some more video footage of me performing so that I could book more gigs. And then I got voted through the next round and the next round. So this was just for publicity. Yeah, I was hoping to just even get one spot,

even if it was just like five seconds in a montage. Because then I could say, as seen on America's Got Talent. And that would help too. Sure. You know, I didn't expect every single performance to end in standing ovations from Howard Stern and what have you. And audits, thousands of people at Radio City Music Hall. I mean, I never dreamt of performing at Radio City Music Hall. So, yeah, that was all just really outside of my goals. My goals were always, my goals are always broad.

And at that time, it was do magic full time. I guess technically, that's still what I do. But it's just on a scale that I didn't expect to be at. So I'm just so appreciative and thankful, forever grateful to the America's Got Talent folks for giving me that opportunity to be the first magician to win. I mean, I watched a lot of magicians. I grew up watching on TV on that show. And like, I never thought I would win.

I mean, it wasn't even in my psyche. So if your idea is just to audition and then you get through the next round, how many gigs do you have to cancel? I was doing both. And I think this is part of, you know, I was, I'd be in Radio City one night, the next night, I'd be in Mississippi performing at a family weekend. And then I'd be, you know, back in Arizona doing a college gig. And then I'd be back at, you know, the Dolby Theater performing at the next thing. So it was, it was really madness is what it was. But you had no vision for ever being a finalist? No, nope.

I didn't even think I had a chance to win till literally there were just two of us standing up there at the very end. Then I thought, oh my God. And then, you know, right as Nick Cannon opened the card, right, just a split second before he read it, I peaked at it. And I was like, oh, my God. You actually, you did a sleight of hand thing. That's how you won, right? Sight of eye, if you will. Oh, I'm saying you gave him the card somehow.

That's how you won, right? I actually came in dead last, but I changed it. That's, yeah. Then how much did your life change after that? You know, I like to think I'm the exact same person. Just lots of opportunities came from there that I never anticipated having available to me, right? So I immediately, for the next six months, started producing television specials for NBC, then spent the next half of that year producing my Las Vegas residency,

which my first year here in Las Vegas, I saw 30 shows close. Some of them opened and closed very, very quickly. So I knew, oh, this is tough. This is not just a thing that's necessarily going to work. So I didn't know if I was going to be here six days or six weeks or six months. And here I am now six years later. I guess you just never know.

It's just take one day, one step at a time. And yeah, that's how it changed my life, is that now I get to share magic with a lot more people. people and that's that's really what it's all about for me yeah writers talk about getting writers block uh-huh yeah what do you do i don't even know you call it like some sort of creativity block yeah what do you do to combat that pace around do a lot of pacing and thinking and uh trying to be present but struggling because i'm supposed to be focused on xyz but i'm still thinking about this writer's block that i have um so i kind of just don't let it go until i figure it out

Um, that's, that's kind of my method. I mean, I try to put it down, which is healthy to put it down. I meditate. I do, I try to do other things, um, other hobbies. Um, but yeah, I, I just kind of keep it knocking around. Let it marinate, sleep on it and, um, uh, hopefully it sparks something. And it usually, by the deadline, it does. And then what, like you were saying, once it's in your show, maybe there's a different way to do that as you continue to keep doing it. It's a really fulfilling creative process creating for my show because it is my show and because there isn't necessarily a timeline I can create at the pace that I want to create. It's more stressful when you're creating because you have to create for a particular appearance on something or whatever. That's not my timeline. That's when it becomes more difficult. That's the only time it could even feel close to work. Who inspires you that's maybe not a magician?

Probably musicians. Sure. Anyone in particular? Yeah, let me think about that. Mark Knopfler, do you know that is? Dyer Straits. They were a classic rockman. I got to see him live for the first time. That was cool. Like maybe within the past, I guess it was pre-pandemic. I was like Jason Mraz a lot.

Got to perform with him, actually. He was on a TV special that I did. I got to do magic with a guitar for him, which was really cool. Howie Mandel, I think, is, actually. just did his podcast not too long ago, is, and of course met on America's Got Talent. Yeah. And he's such an inspiring person. So funny.

Like some of the best stand-up I've ever seen and his crowd work is unbelievable. It's like he goes out on stage like this, ask the crowd questions, and then all of a sudden, you know, it's the 10,000 hours again. He can do anything. There's nothing that can frazzle him when he's on stage because he's been doing 40-plus years in comedy. More than that, actually, yeah. Man. So those are a few that just happen to come into my head, but there are so many more. So I feel bad to all the others that I'm not thinking of in this moment.

You mentioned Howard, Howie Mandel. Yeah. And Howard Stern was on one of the judges there as well. How much time, how much thought went into your audition for America's Got Talent? Because it's unbelievable because it's a routine. It's magic, but it's also a routine. And it's close up. Sure.

How much thought time went into that? You're talking about the audition. Yeah, and anyone who hasn't seen this needs to spend five minutes right now in YouTube to watch those. Yeah, yeah, check it out. It's what I call a card story. So this was inspired to me by an idol that I already mentioned, Bill Malone, who popularized the card story idea in the early 90s, but it actually goes back much further than that. I think the 50s or before. Anywho, he was the first to do it while shuffling and flourishing the whole time. So he's a true pioneer. And I had learned his routine from him. Bill's become a really great. great friend and mentor to me. Anyway, I'd learn that routine and I did it for years at, you know, private gigs growing up and in school and stuff like that. And then as I got older, I thought,

you know, it's time for me to write my own story. Why would I be doing this Sam the Bellhop? I should, I should come up with my own. It's time. Yeah. So I did. And I kind of sat on that for a while. And that's what inspired. Oh, I could write a story about my experience going on America's Got Talent. So yeah, I remember writing it like sitting by a pool at a hotel in some state. I couldn't tell you where it was while I was doing the colleges. So I, you know, every time I think of a thing, like for example, I threw down two jacks and a five. Jacks and five. Kiss your aces.

I thought of ones I didn't use. Ajax. Whatever. I don't know if that's still a brand that people know. Sure. But any pun I could think of, even if it was just like, and I ran. between two trees and you throw down two threes. Like anything I could come up with that would make some sense.

I wrote down first. And then I crafted it into a story over a period of, I guess, weeks. But I think what's so impressive, as I was watching, I was like, there's no way he's going to use every single card. Yeah. And the story's going to end with the last card going down. No way. Come on.

Thank you. And that's exactly what happened. Thank you. Yeah. So I had a friend of mine who was on America's Got Talent recently, Michael Yo, a comedian. and he said he faced of like a real conundrum because he was like, I want to use my best material to get through to the next round. But then if I get through to the next round,

I've already used my best material. Okay. So how did you deal with that? I just asked. I said to the producer, like, should I be like coming up ideas and saving them? And she said, no, whatever your best ideas, do that now. You might not be here next week.

And that was really fantastic advice. But then are you worried that if you do make it to the finals, you're like, yeah, that's not my best stuff? No, I never expected I would make it that far. So I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. There are people who have gone and sort of planned it out more strategically. I didn't plan on going past the first round. So I just, whatever my best idea was for that round, I did. And then I figured, yeah, I got a whole week to figure out the next one. And I thrive on those sort of high pressure situations to create. I do enjoy it. Like I said, it can feel like work. But I do. enjoy it too. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had a time on stage where things didn't go the way they were supposed to go? Yeah. What did it look like? I would say... And how'd you play it off? I would say... I'm sure

the audience probably didn't know. Yeah. Most often, like, no one would have any idea. Um, I've had more, uh, drastic situations, though, where I, I had a borrowed bill from an audience member. Okay. This happened here in Vegas. And the dollar, Bill disappears and then it reappears in an impossible location. Yeah. I saw you do this to Steve Harvey. Ah, yes. I know exactly what you're talking about.

Okay, so we can go into it then. Sure, yeah. It's been televised. That's okay. So it was the ramen. This was the ramen, yeah. Yeah, so it's changed. Inside the flavor pack.

Yeah, so it has changed since that performance. Great example. Okay. The method has changed. But anyway, same idea. Someone watching it shouldn't see the difference. Anywho. So the guy is on stage.

He opens the ramen, and then he's holding the packet, and he open and it's not there. And I know that means it is lost. It's in the pile of ramen somewhere? It's got to be. Oh my God. It's got to be.

So how did you play this off? As a joke. Like, as a joke like, I knew it wouldn't be in there. Because everyone's in, no, no, no. Because everyone's anticipating it to be there, right? By the time you get to that moment and all the tensions on, boom.

Now people, and this is, is sometimes the strongest thing in magic. You let them connect the dots first before it happened. Yeah, yeah. Right as it's happening, they go, no way. That's why you hear that, no way. Yeah, that's how you get to it. Yeah.

So you're at that moment where everyone knows it's going to be in there. So it's not so much of surprise anymore. So the joke works to go, that would have been good, though, and then send them back to his seat. And everybody laughs, and we move on. And because the show is so fun and loose and, like, we're all just having a good time, there's just, this isn't TikTok.

This isn't 15 seconds of, oh, how did that happen? Let me rewind. No, no. This is a fun night out where everyone's having a good time, more equivalent to a comedy show or a concert than what people think magic is.

So send them back. We move on to the next thing. Boom. Now we're already amazed by something else. And we're moving on. Now I have to figure out where that bill is and how it's going to appear. The second idea we had

of where it was going to appear also failed. So at the very end, of the show. I actually made it the finale. I had the gentleman stand up. I said, reach in your back pocket, and there was his signed bill. It actually was there? Yes, sir. Wow. Yeah. So it wasn't hidden in a flavor pack of one of the other ones. No, it was. No, it was lost. Yeah, it had to be found by someone other than me while I'm up there doing the dance monkey dance. We had to find where it would be. We had to, again, we tried a second option. and it was, didn't work.

And it got lost again, essentially. And then, actually, there were two fails other than the original one, two other ones. And then finally, by the last second of the show, the prestige, it came to fruition. The prestige, we were talking off camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. About how your favorite magic movie is the prestige, which the prestige is just a great movie in general. It is, it is. Christopher Nolan's an absolute genius. For sure.

But there's the idea. in the prestige, and I talked about this in another episode, that it's the pledge. I'm going to do this thing. The turn, or the prestige. What is it, the turn? The turn, then the prestige. So you had everything up till the prestige. That's right.

Yeah, that's right. And then it was like, that that's the ta-damo. Yeah, and if you think about it, it actually ended up being a pretty strong ending. I'd say. Yeah, so, you know, they're always out and in magic no-nows what's going to happen. So it's great to just, there's always a plan B and a plan C and sometimes it goes even further down the alphabet. What do you think is the biggest lesson that magic has taught you about life?

Anything is possible, right? Yeah. Anything's possible. I mean, that's what magic has taught me time and time again on this journey. I didn't have a planned answer for that at all. And that's just what came to mind, but it's true. It's taught me that, like obviously in the themes of magic, it's what it shows all of us. But just thinking about where magic has taken me as a child.

who had a poster of Vegas on his wall and watched Magic on TV and watching Lance Burton go, I want to do that. And then fast forward, what? Little kid Matt doesn't even believe that it's all come full circle. And now I receive those messages on social media. At Matt Franco Magic.

No, at Matt Franco. That's what it is. One T and Matt, though, like a doormat. Just walk all over me. You know, and I get these messages of kids that are inspired by seeing my performances. It's like the coolest, weirdest thing ever, you know?

So it's just very fulfilling and I'm just thankful to be able to do it. What is the advice that you have for up-and-coming magicians? Do it, right? Just do it all the time. Practice all the time. If you love it, do it, practice, perform, get experience in front of real people, not just your iPhone. Get in front of real people doing it.

Get feedback, honest feedback, not just family or friends who are going to say that was good. You want the person who's going to say, well, what was in your other hand? That's what you want. And I have two older brothers. So when I was a young kid, they were in high school, and I would perform magic for all their friends. Actually, a dude at the wrestling matches. And I would get in trouble because there would be more people surrounded around by the snack bar watching this kid do magic than we're in watching the wrestling. And the athletic director hated me.

But those are all high school kids. They're not going to be friendly. They're going to say, oh, well, it's in your pocket. Oh, I see what you did. you know, even if they don't see what you did. They're going to heckle you. Yeah. Right? So that's what you want. You want as much of that as possible. You want to make mistakes fail forward fast. Yeah, I always tell people, just start. Do it. Like I think the idea of like, first of all, put it out into the world. If you want to do this thing, put it out into the world and let people know,

this is the thing I want to do so you're held accountable for. Sure. But then just start. Yeah. Like take the first step and then that'll lead to the second and the third and the fourth. Also, this idea of doing it in front of real people is great advice for like comedians and musicians as well. Because your family is always going to go, yeah, that was good stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And in mentioning comedians and musicians, I'm sure when people ask you what you do for a living, it's immediately followed by, hey, show me something.

Honestly, I wouldn't say that. Really? It used to be that way. But it's, I get less of it for whatever reason at this point. Yeah. Because I think when someone finds out someone's a comedian, and they're like, oh, well, be funny. Yeah.

That is true. And we were talking about this off air, too. I am a little jealous because I have gotten it many times over the years, but singers don't get it. So no one tells people to sing it in opportunity times. Break out a song right now. Right. And I've always felt that way.

I always felt like, you know, is this really the right scenario for me to be doing it, you know? But I, yeah, I don't mind when people ask. But it just doesn't have, I don't know if people are, like, feel intimidated or what. people ask for a photo, but less likely to say like, oh, show me a trick, dance, monkey dance. I get less of it for whatever reason. Do you always travel with a deck of cards? So I did for years my whole life. Yeah.

Then I stopped for years because if I did get asked, I didn't want to do it. I wanted to just do my show. And then at some point, it was like right around the time I came to Vegas, I fell back in love with close-up magic again. Partially because of a mentor of mine, Johnny Thompson, the late Johnny Thompson. So I got re-inspired to like, because I was performing on stage every night for hundreds and hundreds of people. And that's a very different type of thing. So I kind of fell back in love with my roots of what kind of got me into it and slight of hand and close up. And I, oh, I carry cards on me now. Yeah. So for years now, I've been carrying them again, which feels good.

I just feel like it's the calling card. I go through phases. You asked me off camera, you're like, do you have a favorite card? Well, most people don't. That's why. And you said, You're like, no, I don't think of it. I don't know. Why would I have a favorite card? That's the thing. Then I made one up. But I also was like, wait, stop.

Are you going to make one appear right now? Like, there's your favorite card. It's somehow on the screen. Right, right. And that wasn't what you were planning. You were, I was curious. Yeah. You were just genuinely curious?

I like to know if people have one or not. Yeah. Do most people? No, most people don't. Do you? I do. Yeah, but see, here's a thing. You see magicians do that a lot.

Like, oh, take out your favorite card. And to me, that's a weird line to say because most people don't have one. So I think as magicians, we need to specialize really in connecting with people and understanding we're a weird group. Magician, we're a weird group. So we have to be able to connect with people who aren't as, you know, left of center or whatever. But think of how good this has made you at just reading people in general. Not when you're about to do a trick, but just in general. Think about reading people?

Oh, you do it all the time. All the time, especially because what I do is interactive. So I need to, I mean, honestly, a huge part of what I do is making people comfortable, right? So I bring people up that volunteer. But, and even if someone's very enthusiastic and over the moon excited to do that, they still very well might freeze up on stage because it's a number one fear, you know, public speaking, being up there. Yeah.

So like a huge, and I'm so empathetic or sympathetic empathetic to that because I realize this is an uncomfortable situation for them. For a long time, I'd be a little bit frustrated if I got someone that wasn't coming off as likable on stage. Now I just expect that they have no reason to be. This isn't what they do. So it's my job to make sure they come off as great as they can. And that's a huge part of what I do. And I think that's all about reading people, knowing where to take it in terms of energy and so on. Because you're now an expert in reading people. For sure, that comes with a territory. Perhaps. Perhaps. What do you think is like a great piece of advice that people should know about just connecting with another human.

Listen. Yeah. Right? Stop, stop talking and listen. Yeah, Larry King always says, I say this all the time, but Larry King always says, I never learned anything while I was talking. So true, so wise. I love that.

That's like Mr. Miyagi level. It is. Unbelievable. Yeah. What could you show us here today? Well, I told you I have my cards. Yeah. Let me see.

I'm going to scoot over towards you a little bit. I'm going to move the microphone if that's all right. I'll come closer to you as well. And I want to see. Talk about real close up magic. Where's our camera here? Which one am I looking at? I think we're going to look in this one straight ahead.

I feel like it's this. Is it where is it? I think it's this. Oh, there it is down there. Okay, I was looking up there. Right by Blue Wire Studios there. Yeah, very good. Now I see it.

Cool. Now you told me you don't play cards. Not often. Not often. So do you know how to shuffle at all? Yeah. Not much. Not well.

Well, I'll help you out. I'll do a little mix. But here, you take the deck in your left hand. On my left hand. Yeah, hold on to it. And just cut some cards onto the table. Maybe a third. No, hold them in your hand.

Okay. Yeah, and cut them onto the table. Just a third. Not too much. One. No, no, stop. Now mix. Now mix in your hands.

Oh. Yeah. Now mix these ones. Yeah. Don't be nervous. You're doing good. I'm like the person that's on stage here. Yeah.

Let me know. That seems pretty. Just cut some more. Okay. Here. Okay. Yeah. Or anywhere.

I don't care. It's your life. Mix again. Okay, so we'll shuffle again here. Yeah, this is like, this is the official shuffle of you. I like it. You can set down when you're done. The whole thing? Yeah. Okay, there we go. Three stacks. Do you want to do another stack or you're good? I don't feel good about that. Okay, good. Collect. The whole thing? Yeah. Sure.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Boom. Anyway you want. Okay. Oh, I might, I know me. I might try to cheat. Take the top card. Okay. Barry it more or less in the middle. You know how in the casino they kill a card? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do the bottom one, too, because I might peek underneath. Yeah. Okay. Cool. All right.

There you go. Happy? Sure. We're going to use the cards in exactly the order you shuffle. It's just like any card game. You start by shuffling the cards. Fair? I'm not even looking at the deck.

These are in the order that you mix them in, am I correct? Yeah, they seem, they're definitely shuffled. Well, you did it. Yeah. So I should hope so. So we're going to try to find just a couple of cards. For example, we use this one, this one, this one, and this one. Let me hold these up so the camera can see the four cards that we found.

Four aces. Just a four-eighths. Okay. out of nowhere. Yeah, absolutely. Now, here's what I want to do. If you wouldn't mind, back up from the mic for just a moment. And we talked about favorite cards.

You said you didn't have one, but I'll ask you to focus on one if you could. Yeah, do you still have one? Can you tell just the color so everyone knows? Red. Okay. I think, I can't remember. Okay, I think we did this. All right.

We'll get back to that. We'll get back to that. Don't forget. And let's see, hold out your right hand. Okay. Okay. This is the ace of spades. Those are four aces.

This is the ace of spades. In every deck of cards, it's the one with the big logo on it, makes it easy to follow. Just be honest with us. How much does that weigh in your hand just roughly? Just roughly. I don't know. A gram? That's really specific.

I'm not going to ask how you know that. One gram. This is the other black ace, the ace of clubs. Clubs. Very good. I'll place the club on top like this. Now watch, this is really cool, because when I snap, believe it or not, I can make the club go on bottom and the spade go on top. Ready?

Okay. Did you feel anything? No. Okay, hold on. Then when I snap again, they'll go back. I did it. Oh, wow. The hard part was getting both of them over here.

Can I look at what I have? Show them what you have. Come on. No! Yes. Yes. No. Yes.

Yes. Wow. I didn't feel anything. No, that's a good thing. Now, I want you to try to not look at the monitor. Okay. Can you look maybe straight ahead, down the camera? Yeah, sure.

I'll look right at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm going to hold up one card because we talked about this here. Okay. Actually, tell me any card. It doesn't matter. Any card at all?

Yeah, it doesn't have to be a favorite card. I don't want people to prearranged anything. The nine of clubs. Any card is possible. It doesn't have to be like one that we talked about before. So if you wanted to do a different one, you could. No, that's the one. Any card, though.

Yeah. It doesn't have to be one that we talked about. Okay. So if you want to change. Okay. I'm not going to change. Oh, you're not going to change. No, that was a different card than the one we talked about. I don't know. I don't remember what you said before. Earlier off camera, I said seven of diamonds.

Oh, right. Mine is seven of hearts. Yeah. So, okay. So nine of clubs. Okay. I'm not watching any of them. So can I get this camera out here?

No, no, no. You sure you don't want to change? I'm sure. Okay. Check this out. That is a queen of diamonds. Yeah, yeah. Hold out your hand like this. I want you to pinch onto it just like this. Okay, got it.

And your favorite card, not favorite card, but the card you're thinking of was... Was the... Nine? Yeah. Of clubs. And you don't want to change? No. Any card is possible.

There are 52 cards in the deck, and I always give people a chance to change their mind. You know that, right? Uh-huh. Nine of clubs? Watch this. Left-handed, by the way. Okay. You want nine?

Uh-huh. Oh, I just... This is unbelievable. Am I supposed to feel something? Magic. I felt magic. Wow. Matt Franco.

Well, my mind is blown thoroughly. Was it okay? Get out of here. Stop it. That was unbelievable. I'm thoroughly impressed with you and also with what you just displayed here. Oh, thank you. I end every conversation talking about gratitude.

Okay. So I'm curious, Matt. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? Family. Family, fans, and being able to. work on emotional intelligence. You know, I've been meditating and all of that and trying to kind of be present in the moment. I'd say that that's maybe the third one that comes to mind at the moment. I like it. I like that also you can't hold a deck of cards without shuffling. It's really hard.

I can't help. Can you show us a really impressive shuffling? Really impressive shot like a flourish. Sure. So this would be like a all right. And you said shuffle. So I'll give you a one-hander. Okay. Let me see if I can do this here. I want to get a good angle. where you can see it. So we'll do not just a one-handed cut, but if you look, we can get them to weave. Uh-huh.

And one-handle-h. And one-handed. Not so bad, not bad, huh? All of this. So good. Matt Franco. How does you do that? You should have changed.

What if you changed? Changed what? Your card. I told you it could change. You would have, you would have figured it out. I guess so. What if I said it was a, Joker. No joker's in the deck, so then it would have been in your pocket.

No, I'm just kidding with you. Where am I? Okay, there's nothing in my pocket. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. This has been so much fun. Unbelievable. Big thank you to Matt for coming into the Blue Wire Studios at the Win Las Vegas for this conversation. Big thank you to you for joining us in there as well. Share this episode with a friend. I know that you know somebody who loves magic. So share this with them. Snap a screenshot and let us know that you're listening. Tag us both. It's just our names. At Matt Franco, 1T, like he said. And I'm just at Chris Van Fleet. And also check out the magic tricks that Matt did for us on both of our social media accounts.

What he does with cards, it's just crazy. It's unbelievable. I'll leave you with this quote from Robert Browning, which is referenced a few times in the movie The Prestige, which if you haven't seen the Prestige yet, I mean, Christopher Nolan is a genius, but this movie might be his masterpiece. I don't know. He's directed so many good films, but the quote is, a man's reach should exceed his grasp. One more time, a man's reach

should exceed his grasp. Chew on that for a little bit. Be great. Be grateful. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumenter. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

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