Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Matt Cardona On Chelsea Green, Possible WWE Return, Adam Copeland Match, Chris Jericho, John Cena

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Get your tickets for INSIGHT LIVE in LA and NYC with VIP Meet & Greet! Matt Cardona (@TheMattCardona) is a professional wrestler previously signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss his post-WWE career 5 years on from the release, why a return has not happened yet, his matches in AEW and ROH against Adam Copeland and Chris Jericho respectively and why they never led to more, advice for released wrestlers, whether he is interested in returning as Zack Ryder, being married to Chelsea Green and more!Quote I'm thinking about: "It's better to be consistently good than occasionally great." - Nick BarePlease support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux  SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount   TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!  STASH: Go to https://get.stash.com/INSIGHTto see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures   MAGIC SPOON: Get $5 off your next order at https://magicspoon.com/cvv   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv  FABRIC: Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://meetfabric.com/CVV   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv  HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.comMIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Uh, yes, welcome back, my friends, to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CBV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for hitting play on this episode. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit an elbow drop on that follow button on Spotify or Apple or wherever you're listening. You certainly don't want to be one of those Jubrubrown. who just listens to the show all the time but hasn't hit follow yet.

And according to the numbers, that's a lot of you. That's like more than half of you. And I don't want you specifically to be known as a gibrony. So just check right now. Check to see if you're following the show. And if you haven't yet hit that follow button with an elbow drop, it would be so, so appreciated. I'm excited to tell you that we have a new tour date coming up.

We're doing Insight Live on Friday, June. 6th in Los Angeles. It's the day before money in the bank. That's going to be such a good one. Tickets are available now at CVVTix.com. That's CVVTX.com. Great to have Matt Cardona back on the show. Also, happy 40th birthday to Matt. As you're listening right now, his birthday was yesterday, May 14th. He's been on the show many times since he was released from WWE in April 2020. And I'm always so impressed. by his business mindset when it comes to wrestling. And that's not a new thing. Like this dates back to when he was doing

the Z True Long Island story on YouTube and calling himself the internet champion. But I don't think there's anyone in wrestling, certainly not an independent wrestling who approaches it the way that he does. There's actually a perfect example during this interview where he talks about reaching out to John Sina to ask if he would be his opponent

for when GCW was at Hammerstein Ball room. Like, could you imagine John Sina in GCW and the way that, like, the fact that Matt Cardona thinks that's a possibility? I love it. We cover a ton of different things in this conversation. I hope that you enjoy this as much as I did. Snap a screenshot and tag us online. He's at the Matt Cardona. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Matt Cardona. See you again. Good to see you, man. Back in. LA. That's right. I've been here in Cali all week. Yeah, a lot of stuff with TNA. Yeah, we had the big pay-per-view Sunday. Chelsea's dad lives in Palm Desert, so I was there for a couple days.

Then the impact tapings, and then I got GCW tonight, the Universal Studios last night, so I've been here all week. Last night, not like during the day. No, at night. So we had TNA in Irvine. I only had to do a pre-saint. I was there. You were there? Night two, you weren't there. You didn't see me? What if I was there? No, I only had a pre-taped, which is good and bad, because I got to leave and head on over to Universal. They have this, I think it's called like Fan Nights or something like that. And back to the future, one of my favorite movies, that's where they filmed it on the backline. Yes.

And they recreated the Hill Valley. So like your clock tower, right? I've seen this. Oh, so jealous. Einstein. There's a real dog there. Great scotch. Exactly.

So I'm like, I have to do this. It's only for a limited time a couple of weeks. I'm giving this plug to Universal. I'm going to payed. Come on, Universal. Give me a VIP tour to Orlando or something. What do you mean one of your favorite movies? It is my all-time favorite movie.

It's in my top five, for sure. Do you have a number one? Oh, man. I think I just have five, and depending on the day, the order can change. Do you want to throw a few else? Oh, man, back to the future. Ghostbusters, the original Star Wars New Hope, Monster Squad, and Home Alone. Oh, you knew those five pretty good.

I mean, those are, I mean, if you ask me tomorrow, might be a different list. But today, right here, that's it. Yeah, back to the future for me, number one, and then everything else kind of after that. I think it's a perfect. movie. I do too. There's nothing you can cut. No fluff. I agree. You know what I'm saying? And it's, it's funny. It has heart. Oh my God. And there's like a real like story and like a real meaning. Like I almost cried last night in the backcloth. I'm like, this is Hill Valley. That's the clock town. This is where Marty drove the Delorean 88 miles an hour. I was right there.

Now I need to go now. You got to go tonight. I can't go tonight. I got two young kids. It closed at two o'clock. But I'm asleep. I went. By myself? Will you go with me? I can. I'm out of here. I got there at nine last night, State Hill 2. Easy, put the kids to bed.

I could actually do that. But the thing about having kids, Matt, is... Call a babysitter. You wake up at 6 a.m. whether you like it or 5.30 a.m. whether you like it or not. Your kids don't care if you went to bed at 9 or 2 in the morning. Yes, I get it.

Well, I don't have kids yet. Just dogs and cats. You have like a whole farm full of them. We got a zoo. We got a zoo, yeah. We were going to do this interview in December. And you were like, I'm in town for this GCW. show on December 11th. I'm like, that is my son's due date.

He might come early. And if he arrives early, we can do the interview. He ended up arriving late. That was a good GCW show. You missed that one. It was good. Jericho did that run-in, attack you for our big Hammerstein ballroom match. What was funny was Jericho did the run and like, who could this be?

And then you look at his shoes and you're like, it's very clearly. Not a lot of other people wrestling. Nobody could pull that off, only Jericho. That is true. That is right. Well, because he has that blend of like he is a superstar in the ring. He has a rock star on the stage. Of course he'd be wearing those shoes.

There's a reason he's still on top after all these years. Well, it's reinvention. Absolutely. He just keeps figuring out new versions of himself. I look up to him in that sense. I mean, like, he is the, you look up reinventing the dictionary, Chris Jericho's face is there and then maybe mine. Well, it's amazing that like what you've done now,

there's probably fans out there that aren't even aware of the work you did as Zach Ryder. Because of what you've done as my Cardona. Also, on the flip side, there are fans that have no idea what I'm doing now. And I'm at wrestling con, like, where are you been, Zach? Well, all over the world for the past five years. Do people say that? Yeah, but I don't blame them, you know, because I was the biggest, the times have changed, yes, but I was the biggest wrestling fan growing up.

Like, I didn't watch indie wrestling. It was different than. There was no internet, you know, there was no streaming stuff. So I get some people just watch WWE and that's fine. So they come up to you and say, man, when are we going to see Russell again? Yeah. stuff like. I mean,

I wrestled yesterday. Right, exactly. Like, I always get one. You're going to come back to WWE. I get that all the time. But sometimes it's like, where have you been since WW? I'm like,

uh, I mean, don't you see all these eight by tens? They see all these bloody pictures, these titles, all these moments, but I don't hold it against them. So at a signing,

what is the percentage of Zach Ryder autographs and Matt Cardone autographs? I think it's like 75 Matt, 25, Zach. Okay. I get it. You know, like, I was,

you know, Zach Ryder, set me up for Matt Cardona. So, like, I have no problem signing a Zach Rider 8 by 10 or an action figure. You know, like, that Interconnell title picture of that 8 by 10, I've made the dollar side of that. So I'm grateful for it.

Yeah, what a moment that was. Yes. Is it, that's... Have we ever talked about that? That moment, I think we've got like millions of years when we talk about that moment. It's one of those things that, you know, we don't have to rehash it, but

no writer wrote that story. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wasn't supposed to be in that. match, I ended up winning the inner conal title. I took a picture with Scott Hall afterwards holding my interkynal title. He held mine because years earlier, I was at WrestleMania 10. I watched him in a ladder match win the intercal title. And then months later, I took a picture holding his, it's like storybook stuff.

Yeah. It's real life. That's what's so crazy, but it's all real. And then my dad hops the barricade, you know, for real. Gives you a big hug. Did you wave him in? No. Ziegler waved him in.

In the moment, I was so pissed. He tries to put that damn cowboy hat in my head. but I mean, it was my WrestleMania moment. It's a moment that I will never forget. What do you think was missing from your WWE run that you have now? Man, I would have loved the opportunity to show the different side, the heel side, if you will. But in WWE, like, you could pitch all day. They're not necessarily going to do it.

On the independents, you can do whatever I want, right? So I organically turned heel, so to speak, on the Indies. and I'm so comfortable in that role. I love that the fans hate me. Now I think they're starting to love to hate me, which is fine too because they're still buying my merch. But, you know, I've said this many times. I needed to get fired to find myself, you know.

So I don't even want to say blessing in disguise. It was just a blessing. Like, I needed to get fired to find myself. There is so rarely a through line in independent wrestling. Like you can work as a baby face on Saturday, go to another town on Sunday. You're working as a heel. How have you been able to find that through line?

Man, because, like just social media. And like I said earlier, like independent wrestling 10 years ago, like if it happened in New Jersey, it happened that night in New Jersey. Now it's streaming. People watch all over the world. And then I'm posting about it all week leading up to the match, promoting it. And all week after showing off what I did. So I'm forcing it down people's throats.

But there's also, you have to go in with the assumption that the crowd that is right here in Santa Ana, California may have no idea what you did last week. I learned that from William Regal a long time ago. Every time you walk through the curtain, you have to pretend that they don't know who you are. And I tell the guys and girls in the Indies all the time. You can't think like, oh, they watch that cell phone promo you cut. You know what I'm saying? You need to like reintroduce yourself and tell that story in the ring.

So what does that look like? I mean, for me, it's just so easy because like I'm this chicken shit heel. It's as simple as like ding ding ding, like we're about to lock up. I just roll out of the rig. It's just easy stuff like that. I feel like these bad guys now, they don't want to be uncool. I have no problem being uncool, you know?

And then you tell that, so there's other things I can do throughout the match or even just subtle things on the entrance. Some things can be very cheap, you know, like for instance, like putting out your hand for a high five, taking it away.

I mean, ripping up a sign like that, you know, it's kind of easy. That's like, you know, it's just right in front of your stuff, but you got to be smart. Every crowd's different.

You are the complete, Matt Cardone. I am. What is the complete? Well, you know, so I was the indie god, the death match, King and then I told my peck, which sucked.

You know, there's no good time to get injured, but that certainly was not a good time to get injured. I was about to, as crazy as sounds, celebrate my four years of being released from WWI. I filmed this whole hype video and I got hurt like the Saturday before. I'm like, shit, just told my pack because like I knew I'd be fine, like, work-wise because like people bring me into cup provos, you know, I ended up being the general manager of GCW.

So I was fine, money-wise. But being asked, like, I can't just comment. back wearing that crown or the indie got had again. I needed like a fresh coat of paint, so to speak. So I was just thinking of all these ideas and like it just hit me like the complete like it means so many things. A like the total package like Lex Lugar like I can do it all. I looked apart. I wrestled apart. I talked apart or the complete like everything that led to this point in my career, whether it be the major brothers or the YouTube broskey stuff or winning the IC title or getting fired. Then the death match king. The indie got everything wrapped into one is the complete

Matt Cardona. And maybe this is going to get too deep with this idea, but do you feel complete in your career? No. But I'm always grateful, but I'm never, like, satisfied, if that makes sense. Like, of course, I'm, if it ended today, I'm very grateful what happened in my career, 21 plus years, getting paid to live my dream. But I have a lot more goals that I want to accomplish. Do you think about this big birthday that's right around the corner of you? Oh, why you bring it up? I just had it recently. Do you think about what turning 40 means for you? It's so different than it was 10 years ago.

You know, I feel, I don't feel like I'm 40. I feel like I'm 25. And luckily, my body still feels away because I've wrestled a certain style. Maybe some of the smart marks don't like it. But I'm wrestling the same way I wrestle when I was 25. And I feel like I can go another 10, maybe 15 years. I don't feel 40. I don't look 40.

It's only don't act 40. But, you know, check my license. I'm about to be 40. What about personally? Like, do you feel like you've done everything you want to do up to this point? I mean, listen, Chelsea and I want to start a family, but, you know, our careers are thriving around, especially hers. Yeah.

So there's, there's no time to press the pause button. And there's so much I want to accomplish in wrestling, in the other side business I have. But, yeah, I don't feel like, I feel like I really feel like I haven't hit my prime yet. Maybe I'm being a little delusional, maybe optimistic, but I feel like I got a lot left for the thing. You put out this. Really interesting tweet the other day. Oh, which one? WWE announced another round of releases.

Yes, yes. And you said to everybody who just recently got released, you've got three options. That's right. For anyone who didn't see the tweet, do you want to go through that? I'm paraphrasing it, but it was like you have three options, right?

Like you can one, like fade into obscurity, feel bad for yourself, have a pity party, never be seen again, or like be delusional with your prices, never get booked again, you know what I'm saying? or you can coast off your WWE name.

And I don't just mean your literal name. I mean the fact that you were in WW. Just coast off that. Do a couple Indies here and there. You know, like some autograph sign. And you probably do that forever, right? Or the one I chose,

work your ass off, reinvent yourself, have a lot of, can I curse here? Of course. Have a lot of fucking fun and make a lot of fucking money. And you have three options. You choose.

It's not, the third one's not easy, but it's possible. Which bucket do you think most people fall into. Man. I think history shows that they fall into number two. Yeah.

Just coasting. And that's unfortunate, you know. It's not easy out there on the independence, especially because a lot of these guys and girls don't know what it's like to do the independence. I didn't, you know? Like, and I had to just dive in head first and I had to teach myself.

And of course, like I stole things from Cody, from Drew McIntyre, the guys who had left and had, you know, made their names even bigger. And then I created my own blueprint. it feels like there has to be like this ego death that happens because you're going from 10,000, 15,000. Oh my God. WrestleMania maybe 60, 70,000.

These guys and girls are making the most money like ever. Sure. Right. They ain't making them on the Indies, pal. Right. So you have to go from tens of thousands of people in the audience. Yes. To sometimes tens.

Hopefully not, but literally sometimes tens of people. Sure. Yeah. What does that do to your? to your confidence, to your ego. Man, I think you just got to embrace it. And I mean, yes, I called myself the indie god and I had all these titles and I wore the stupid Indiana Jones hat.

But I really embrace the grind. Like when I was doing those push-ups, like for instance, tonight, I'm going to GCW, Ukrainian Cultural Center. I talk about it. The locker room is an alley. But instead of bitch in a moment, like when I'm doing push up there on the street, you know, or pissing in between the two dumpsters, like, I'm like, this is it, baby, here we go.

You know, I'm not doing it with a boo-boo face. I'm doing with a smile. It's all like your outlook and your perception. But where does that come from? Because it'd be so easy to be like, I'm not where I was. Well, I'm forcing myself to be positive. I'm not naturally positive.

I don't wake up like, today's a great day. No, I wake up and like, oh, that glass is half empty naturally. And I've had to force and condition myself to be positive. Is all of this of like, I'm going to impress somebody at WWE. I'm going to get back there.

I've said this a million times. Like when I got released, it wasn't like, what can I do to get back to WWE or get to AW's? what can I do to prove myself right? And oh my God, even saying that again and again and again for five years, I've been saying that I don't want to prove people wrong. I want to prove myself right and my fans right.

It makes me sick say because I feel like I've said it so many times. But it's the truth. I feel like I have. But man, like what else I need to do to get back there? You know what I'm saying? Well, you got released five years ago. Yes. And if we're being honest here, are you surprised you haven't been resigned?

Honestly, yeah. But obviously, you know, I'm missing something. I don't know what it is. Listen, people say to me all the time, especially like we just had WrestleMania, RussellCon, thousands of people at WrestleMania, probably every other fan,

if not every fan, when are you coming back? Well, it's up to me, you know, or at the WrestleMania Hotel, thanks Chelsea for letting me stay in a hotel room for free, you know, all,

all, save me somebody, thanks, man. Found blue, right? Yeah, great hotel. Beautiful. Great steakhouse too.

But so many people from the office or other wrestlers, like, hey, man, when are you coming back? It's like, I don't know. You know, I've reached out many times, I should say many, a few times every couple months when something cool happens or I have something to say, hey, look what I'm doing. There's been no offer.

So they write you back? Of course, yeah. But there's no offer. Everything's very nice, professional, but there's no offer. And you know what? It is what it is. I'm going to keep working my ass off. What if they said, we'd love for you to do a one-off spot at the rumble, but you got to be Zach Ryan.

I've had gear ready every single year. Okay. This is the truth. So I always have gear. I'm always ready. I always have gear, right, where it has a, where the trunks are like the same, but the knee pads are interchangeable to ZR or an MC.

So like whatever what I have, you know? So you wouldn't be opposed to being Zach Ryder? It's not my first choice. I think Zach Ryder is dead, and I don't mean that in a negative way. Zach Ryder set me up for Matt Cardona. I mean, obviously W.D.E thought Zach Ryder was dead. They fired me five years ago.

Yeah. And my, my Matt Cardona name, I feel like I've done these interviews for five years. Right. And again, this is like how many things. times if I said this, but I don't care how you define success. Money, accolades, happiness. This is the most successful I've ever been in my career as Matt Cardona. But it's because Zach Ryder and WWE set me up for that. Do you make more money now? Yes. Every year. Yes. Then you did in your

best year in WWA? 100%. That was a lot of yes. Also, little asterisk, like the WWE guys now and girls, they have those big deals. I didn't have those giant deals. So if I got to released now making some of the you know making my some of those people are making maybe i wouldn't be making the same amount of money but for what i was making then yes i'm making more now but it's a crumbs make crumb cake situation you know it's the wrestling it's the podcast it's the conventions the autograph signings the pro wrestling teas you know the figure business is everything all combined yeah you have what is it five businesses is it technically three businesses i've always ready ink which is always ready ink which is Yeah, the wrestling. I have the major wrestling viewer podcast and major the toy comes. So three,

technically three businesses. And so at the end, business credit cards. Yeah. So it's a real business. Oh, wow. Yeah. Your books must just be a mess. I got a guy. Yeah. It's been amazing seeing which Chelsea's been doing. Oh, it's the best. The best. Yeah. How do you feel as a proud husband? Oh, my God. So proud of her. Like, I'm our biggest fan. rooting her on, you know, like, I get all, like, she doesn't care about the merch. I got all her trading cards, all her action figures, all her shirts. I'm super proud of her. It's the best watching, because I knew when she got released the first time, like, they missed

the boat, you know, and she was killing it on the Indies. And when she got the call to go back, she had to go back. There's something different this time around with her. I think it's just opportunity. Yeah. You know, she's always had the talent, you know, but she didn't get the opportunity. And that's fine. Not everyone always gets an opportunity.

but she did this time around and she is making the most of it, whether it's a match or a little backstage or if she's not on, she's filming something for social media. She gets it. She's the epitome of that phrase you always hear in wrestling,

maximize your minutes. Maximize your minutes, maybe. Like if she has 20 seconds in a backstage promo worth six other people, you'll remember that Chelsea Green was there. I say it's all the time. I tell us some people on the Indies when they ask for advice,

it's not about the moves, it's about the moments. You know, when you think about that way. I'm not saying have a bad match. Not saying purposely go out and shit the bed. But the people remember the moments. And she has, yes, some matches, but it's because the moments in those matches.

You know, not necessarily the moves in those matches. Yeah, it's that, I've said this a few times now, but I think it was Nigel McGinnis who sat here and said, wrestling is what happens in between the moves. Sure. And it's like, that's, that is so, I've never heard it said better. I like that. And it's the idea of like,

yeah, you can do this move, followed by this move, followed by this move. But how do you tie it together? Absolutely. And how does that make you feel something? Like Rock Hogan, right? Arguably the best match of all time, right? Oh, we could talk all day about it.

If you have two indie guys, random guys, do that match, move for move, as a random show, it's going to be the worst match ever. But the people were invested in those two men, those two characters, the story. So yes, they did moves. It's the moments. Yeah. You know. You guys know that when it comes to health and well-being, I'm always looking for an edge.

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and it starts to represent this big gap between the quality of life we expect when we're older and the one we actually experience. One way to think about mitopure is like they're the little Pac-Men in your cells chomping up the damage mitochondria that make you feel old and tired, and we're cycling it into new healthy ones. For me, taking mitopure is really helped with recovering after a workout. I'd start to feel myself getting stronger with more energy and experiencing less inflammation. I think it's worth you checking out as well.

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Run your game. Did you almost buy the women's United States championship? Almost buy it. Why didn't? I already bought it. Why didn't this become a thing? Because I did it with the tag team title. Which is exactly the way people were expecting you to do with this.

And that's why I didn't do it. You know what I'm saying? It's like, all right, I did it once. Am I going to do it again? No. But I did buy it. I thought about it. I'm like, yeah, I already did it.

I don't like doing the same thing twice. Were you close to doing this? Well, yeah, I told you I bought it. So I mean, as close you get. I still haven't. Maybe I'm going to do it. It's funny because when you talk about stuff like this, it just, it comes down to for this, like, why do you, why do you still care so much about your indie appearances? Because there are a lot of people who, and you know them, we're not going to name names here.

They just phone it in. I love this. I love pro wrestling. Yes, it is my job. And I'm so grateful that it's paid the bills for, for 21 years. I never had a real job in my life. I worked at a deli, slicing meats, you know, stealing nest quicks to get the protein. I worked at a pizza place.

I was a personal trainer at Gold's Gym with no clients and a pro wrestler. You know, so like this is my life. This is my, I'm living the dream, man, whether it's wrestling or talking about wrestling figures or designing and producing wrestling figures. I just, I love wrestling.

My whole life I've been obsessed with it. So like, yes, there are certainly some indie shows where I'm thinking like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? You know, like I'm still getting paid. I'm still getting the money, but I'm like,

it's middle of nowhere. The travel suck to get here. There's nobody out there. Like, what the fuck? Then there's indie show like tonight. It's going to be awesome. GCW. The venue sucks, you know,

but the atmosphere in that venue is amazing. The fans are rabid. I haven't been in G7, four months. I know they're going to hate me. They're going to scream like, fuck Cardone or we want Chelsea. It's going to be just awesome.

You know, like I just have so much fun doing it. When you get pitched for a booking, if they meet your rate, is that it? You're going to do it. If I have the date free and they meet my rate, I'm in. That's it. That's it.

You don't look at like, don't give a shit. And this is my problem. I feel like an old school, like, well, not old school, but I got a paper calendar. I'm the internet champion, but I don't use the calendar on my phone. I've got paper calendar. So if someone hits me up with a date and I have it free, I say, listen, I love money. I love wrestling, Chelsea Green and money.

I feel like those are your three things you're grateful for. Just end the interview right there. But, you know, the good shows, the bad shows, in all seriousness. Like, I learn from all of them. I think when you stop learning, you stop growing. So, like, I learn from every opponent I'm in the ring with, whether they've been wrestling the same amount as me, more than me, two weeks. I'm always trying to learn something or pick something apart from that match

that I can continue on and carry forward with. Where does this paper calendar exist? It's in my backpack. Oh, it's on you. It's always on me. Yeah, it's always, it's in my backpack right now. It's a Mickey Mouse calendar. Bobby Root and Myers and Ziegler, they don't like it.

They make fun of me. Actual Mickey Mouse? It's a big. Every month is a different, you know, Mickey Mouse. This is amazing. This is incredible. Well, not yet. Not yet.

Yeah, 39 for a few more weeks. Well, our birthdays are five days apart. Wow. Well, happy birthday. Well, happy birthday to you as well, May 19th. Don't say that date to Kane. Don't bring up cane around me now. Yeah.

Oh, boy. What do you wish you were? told about indie wrestling when you got into it. Because because you've been the guy, everyone comes to you now. When people get released, you're a text or phone call away. And they're how many I got yesterday? And like, you know, I take pride in that actually. Some people, some people knew me. Some people don't know me. Some people reached us and said, thank you for that, that post that really lit a fire into my ass. You know, when I got into the Indies, first of all, when I get fired, pandemic just starts. The world is unknown. There's nowhere. You can't. You can't

I can't wrestle on me. There are no Indies. And then maybe eventually there were some like outside with social distancing and masks. I'm like, I can't do. That can't be my first wrestling, you know, after being at WW. So, you know, we talked about a cup of coffee at AEW at the time. I did some TNA stuff that's or impact. That's where I got my feet wet again, like and got comfortable again. Start actually wrestling again because, you know, I do stuff in, I get fired in in April, do the AEW stuff in July, I believe or August. And then I don't wrestle again until January. And then the world opens up again, like, March or April the next year. And that's when I just, just dive head first into the Indies and just, here we go. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to be the guy. I don't know how, but I'm going to figure it out. So when you do get that text from a recently released friend or colleague, what do you tell them?

Well, I mean, some people are very toyetic. So I add them to the, uh, the major toy line. Oh, we're going to see a Braun Stromen action figure. Okay. There's some people that, you know, I, uh, you know, I, uh, you know, I recommend to other promoters or, you know, like, I don't know all the answers. Obviously, I don't because I'm sitting here talking to you. I'm not in WWE, right?

So I don't know all the answers, right? But you know all the answers. But I know how to make money. When it comes to indie wrestling, like, you should have a online course about this. I should actually. Yeah. No, but I, listen, I'm not a gatekeeper. If anybody, whether they're released or still or never got to WWE, I will answer any

question they have. I'm not saying it's the right answer. It's just what has worked for me, you know? I think what's worked for you is you, have treated this like a business. Well, it is a business. It ain't show friends. It's your business.

But I think there's a lot of people that if you treat it like a hobby, it's going to pay like a hobby. Treat it like a hobby. Treat it like a business. You are one of the few independent wrestlers who treat it like it's a business. You're probably one of the very few that has an LLC or an incorporation. Always ready egg. You're probably one of the few.

Right. Where did that come from? I'm just so passionate about this. I love it. this consumes my brain 24-7. Like when I was in WWE, uh, listen,

highs and lows, right? Well documented. And, uh, I, uh, I think I invented the,

the passive aggressive tweet about your spot. You know, you know, like I think I invented that, uh, which I'm not proud of, but, um,

so we feel of copy in it since. But I realized one day, like I said, I'm not a nationally positive person, but I'm like, listen, what? I can't be miserable at work because it's,

it's, it's not, you know, changing my spot. And it's certainly not making me happier at home. So what can I control? How can I, like, shift my mindset? And I realize, okay, what can I control in this WWE environment?

I control my gear, right? I can always look like a star. I could always treat like it's WrestleMania, whether it's a house show or raw or or main event, what other shows are called, right? I can control my physique. No one's going to say you can't be in the best shape possible. And like, I can control my attitude. I can always come in with a smile, whether it's forced or not, right?

and just be in a good mood and a good attitude. And those are the three things I could control. I would try my best. And if things worked out, they worked out. They didn't work out. I tried my best. I did the things I could control. Now in the Indies, I fucking control everything.

Yeah. I literally control every little thing. So my mind doesn't stop. It's always going. Like, I wake up the middle and I take a piss. I'm thinking about wrestling. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm always thinking about it.

And not everything's going to work. There's been so many failures that I've done on the Indies. But I just, pivot and I, you know, and I learn from those things and I grow from those things. Isn't it kind of nice, though, that when it doesn't work on the Indies, it's only in front of this group of people? Sure. Also, it's things that I, you know, it could be merch ideas and I spent thousands of dollars on thinking they're going to be a huge success and they don't work. And I'm like, oh, shit. That's the biggest merch flop. Oh, biggest merch flop. I made like Burger

King style death match king crowns. I thought for sure, these are going to sell five, ten bucks in the gimmick table, but I had to buy thousands of them because I created like what the mold of my crown looks like. So it was unique. But towards the end, I was giving them away. Do you have any left? I have none left. Okay. But I was giving them away.

I made my money back, but I thought I'd be rich up these fucking crowns. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not so much. Didn't work out. Didn't work out. Were there ever times in WWE when, you know, those are the three things you can control?

Right. Did anyone ever go, hey, stop, stop, you know, dial it back. little bit. No. Did you ever get in trouble or like when you were doing. Oh. No, I get,

continue. I'm sorry. Did you, did you ever get in trouble for going out of your way to do things like when you were, you made yourself the internet champion? Listen, I hate to say, I'm never going to be one of those guys that say they buried me for doing this or that.

I always want to blame myself. So during that time, did it, did it, listen, I went from the beginning of the year, 2011, buddy start a YouTube show end of the year i'm u.s champion teaming with sina on raw the rocks

returns they're chanting for me over the rock right the next year you can't push up the stage uh at a wheelchair barcane now is that being buried i don't want to cop out and say that i could have went knocked on at vizumman's door and said hey what's going on here i didn't do that so i i want to i just take all accountability for what happened i like to just blame myself and move on then we're going to go from there like it was just then i just kind of floated for a couple years and I was always ready. Anytime they threw me a bone, I capitalized. I see title of WrestleMania. I mean, that was after

the YouTube run. Then back to doing nothing. Then me and Hopkins were the tag team that was in New York, New Jersey. Well, it was like the pre-show, but I still counted as media. It was technically mania. The sign me on you, said to WrestleMania. We got the plaque. There's a plaque? Yeah, with the canvas and all that. Oh, I didn't. Oh, I wouldn't say, I can't say, I'll send you one because it's mine, but yeah. Yeah. Maybe on eBay.

Send me a photo. I'll send you a photo. Yeah. And then, you know, I'll send you know, I just floated again until I got fired. But I was always ready, always pitching ideas, always being proactive. But it is what it is. You know, there's so many moving parts in WWE. There's so many characters. It's a TV show.

Not every character on the TV show can be featured. Just how it is. When Chelsea got brought back to WWE, did you go out? Were you checking your phone a little more often? I mean, especially that time. It's got to happen. When all those people got rehired, like, I'm not sure what the prerequisite to get and rehired was.

Is it doing nothing? Because a lot of the people were doing nothing. And, you know, it is what it is. It's just, everyone has a different path. Everyone has a different journey. I can't, you know. If the phone rings right now, I will pick it up. It hasn't rang yet, you know?

And I hate to say I'm always ready, but I am like, if they pick up, if they call today, I'll pick up and we'll have a conversation, yeah, but they haven't called. The phone has rang from AEW. It has a couple times. Yeah. Done a few things for ADW. Yes, I have, yeah. The moment with Edge, full circle with Adam Copeland, that was

Cool. Career highlight for sure, you know, um, having that match with Adam. It was a match I never thought would happen. You know, WrestleMania 24 is my first WrestleMania. And I run in the main event. Me and Hawkins were the edge heads. We help edge, um, not successfully, but, you know, Undertaker chokeslams. I was like, we're in the main event of WrestleMania. And this delusional, naive kids like, well, next year, WrestleMania, it's going to be the edge heads explode. Hawkins, there's rider versus edge. No, that didn't happen. We, Hawkins and the rider were, we were lumberjacks and the tag team. pre-show match. You know what I'm saying?

And then, you know, Adam eventually gets the unfortunate, you know, career-ending injury. He retires. Then he comes back and I'm in WWE, but then I get fired. And then he leaves and goes to AEW.

Well, this match could actually happen now because A.E.W., the forbidden door, they're always bringing people in. So he was doing the cope open. And I just shot him a text saying basically like, hey, man, if like you ever need an opponent, just please consider me.

And he said, I'm like, yeah, I think this story is coming to an end. But if we ever do it again, I'll keep you in mind. I totally forgot about it. A couple months later, got the call. Can you show up Saturday? I had to cancel my match with Ultimo Dragon. But yes, I was there.

And it was an absolute dream match. What do you do when the calendar says you're booked? Well, I mean, this is this is one that you have to cancel. I always, you know, stay committed to my dates. But this is my dream match. You know, there's nothing that's going to stay in the way of that. Yeah, for a long time, that match felt impossible. Right.

Like, Edge versus anyone was impossible. Right. And that match, it was so special for so many reasons. Like, teacher were student, Edge was Edgehead, but like a match I really thought would never happen. And that was my dream match before I even got into the business. You know, I always wanted to wrestle Edge, you know, like, whatever my name was going to be against Edge. That was always my dream match. And then just coming out that night and the crowd, like, chaining like, holy shit. Like, it made me feel like, oh, my God, like, everything I've been doing on the Indies, like,

have been recognizing it. It's working. And, you know, I didn't win, unfortunately. But, like, just being in that match was the win. And all, like, I'm not going to say all the compliments he gave me afterwards. But, like, him complimenting me, like, seeing that he was proud, man, nothing beats that. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, now you had more with AEW. Yeah. So then I go away for a couple months. And then I got a call, like, hey, you interested in working Chris Jericho, the Hammerstein ballroom? Yeah, let me think about it. Duh. again, one of my childhood idols,

he was on my birthday cake, but I was ninth grade. Like, I love Chris. You know, as a performer, I look up to Chris. So to wrestle Chris,

we had a whole program and for a ring of honor. Had to do it. Another dream match. Why didn't that turn into more? Again, I don't know. You have a match

for the Ring of Honor World Championship. Yes. And that's it. That's it. I don't know, man. Dave Meltzer reported

that I got offered a contract. But I did you? I did not. So I don't know what happened. I'm going to put you on the spot here. If you got offered a contract from A.W., would you take it? If it made sense. I don't want to be anywhere just to be a guy on the roster.

And I know there's no guarantees in pro wrestling. But I need, like, intent, you know? Like we see you doing this or we envision you being, you know, here, you know? I don't want to just collect a check. I kind of been there, done that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And you wouldn't have the freedom to do what you're doing now.

No, and listen, I still have a great relationship with. A.W. Like, for instance, our toy company major, we work with JazzW as their company. We have an exclusive figure coming out, Smart Mark Sterling, A.W. guy. We're making his Jazzware's AEDU figure, like separate from like our toy company. It's like, I still have a great relationship with all them. When you were paired with Edge in WWE, were you traveling with them at that time? Not really. A few times we did, but, um, me at Hawkins, we were, like, ride with like, Jesse and Festus and, like, we were doing some just stupid things young guys do. Staying out all night.

I think that laugh says it all. But when you talk about teacher-student relationship. The stuff I learned from him, like, he's putting together these matches. A WrestleMania main event match. Me and Brian, we're sitting there in the rehearsal. Just listen.

And then every single night, you know, we'd have a tag match on these live events. You know, we'd always have a tag match. And then we'd be out there with Edge, like, you know, being his manager. and like we have this front row seat to watch

and the world champion wrestle guys like Undertaker Batiste, Raymistero, Sean Michaels, Rick Flair like we were like learning from the greats. It's a lesson that like, I don't know if anyone can recreate the things that we learn. What are the things you were learning then that you still apply now? It's how to be a star to slow down.

You know, even back then I knew that it was about like the moments and not necessarily the moves. just storytelling. And one thing I always let you tell the guys and girls in the Indies, like, it's hard because you want to keep going because, like, you're not on TV, but I always, listen, I was on TV. So I practiced that, like, I'm pretending there's a camera here. And then on that opponent's face and there's commentary.

So, like, I use, like, fake commentary in my head to slow me down these Indies matches. I try to teach that to the guys and girls like, this is a story. Pretend it's on TV, you know? So, then there's all these camera angles. Pretend the commentators are putting you over. telling your story. What's the smallest crowd you've wrestled in since being released? Oh, my smallest?

I mean, I've done some bad ones. I did one at like some fare. I'm like, I joke with Heath Slater. He's going to hate me for this. Like, I'm the indie god and he's the shindy god.

You know? And there's nothing wrong with taking these bookies. Sometimes don't post about him. You know what I'm saying? But there was one in particular. I don't want to throw the company under the bus. But it was like at some fair. And I won the title.

like at some fair and I dropped to my knees like Sean Michael style like on the grass. Yeah. You know, on the grass. And it was so ridiculous. Like, I got to post this. You know, it's like, you know, like I got to. Like I'm literally winning a title at some fair, you know. That's probably my worst one.

And like not everybody at the fair is a wrestling fan. And they're going, what the heck is this thing? That might be my worst one. There's probably like horse riding going on over in this section of the fair. God forbid it it rained. You know what I'm saying? Oh, it did. No, it didn't.

But like what it did. Right. Yeah. But you're doing it. I'm doing it. The good shows, the bad shows, everything. And I think the thing that is most impressive about what you've done over the last five years is you've embraced the grind. You have to, man.

You don't have to. I have to. You could go, I'm only going to do three bookings a month. Oh, my God. They've got to be good ones. I have three this weekend. Literally, no exaggeration. Wow.

Thursday, Friday, Saturday. There's three. Yeah. There is. But it would be so easy to go. I'm only doing these cities or these shows or whatever, you know? I can't do it. Like I know that if I'm not out there, if I'm not promoting myself, who's going to do it?

You know, if I was in WWE, and let's say like I wanted to, oh, I'm going to get off my phone this week. Okay, well, WWE's account's going to post about you. The Netflix account's going to post about you. The shop is going to post about you. If I don't pose about me, who's posted about me? You know what I'm saying? I got to shove it down everyone's throats of what I'm doing because I know they're not.

not everyone's not watching what I'm doing like literally watching the match they're seeing what I'm doing I'm literally forcing it down the throats it's going to come up in their feed they're going to see it they're going to know what I'm doing where did this work ethic come from where did this get instilled from I just always had especially with that YouTube show back in the day like I just knew I wanted more I was in wb I was living the dream so to speak the dream job but like I wanted to be more than just this guy who was already in the ring from commercial break. I wanted to be a star. And for a time period in WWE, I felt like a star.

I'll never forget, like walking into like a Kmart back when there was Kmart's. After that YouTube run, there was like, it was like a back to school calendar. It had me, CM Punk and John Seed on. Like I'm like, I'm on the calendar. Like, you know, like this is, this is great. That was like, I've made it. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a folder out. It was a folder. It was not a calendar, folder. You know, like one of those like back to school folders. Yeah. I'm like, I'm on the fold. The cover the full. Three guys.

Me, C.M. C.F. Punk. I think I made it. Did you know you were going to be on that? No, it's just one of those random. Because at that time... That's cool. Yeah, because when you're at a certain level in WWE, they just throw your face on everything.

You know what I'm saying? So, like, you know, I collect all my own stuff. And it was, it's kind of easy to keep track of the Zach Ryder, Mac Cardona stuff. Like, how does John Cien or CMP or Ramis Dio or Cody Rose keep track? If they were a collector, they'd be screwed.

Like, I've heard Jericho tell the story of how Gene Simmons has every kiss thing ever made. And it's like an entire, I don't know how big the room is, but like literally everything is on the school. I'm trying to do that for Matt and slash Zach. I'm trying. I don't have it all displayed, but I have it. This is why you're building a whole new house. Well, there is going to be a big, big toy room.

But it's not going to be all Matt and Zach stuff. And how do you, how do you straddle the line of like, I'm collecting this stuff and it's not a shrine to myself? Oh, because that stuff's not on display. You know, that stuff is in the toe in the garage. There's some things that are on display, like my titles are on display. my action figures. I don't think that's like, I don't think there's anything wrong

with displaying the stuff. Like, you think Michael Jordan doesn't have his, like, his cool stuff up? You know what I'm saying? I mean, have you seen Michael Jordan's house

that's been for sale forever in Chicago? I've not seen it. Like the gates have 23. Everything's personalized, which is why they can't sell the house. Yeah, well, listen,

I don't have everything up. Just, I have the belts, you know, the titles, the figures, I have a painting of me and my dad hugging a WrestleMania,

hung up. Other than that, you know, all the stuff's, like, put away, but I have it. Have you been to DDPs office in his house?

That's awesome. I'm inspired by it. It's great. And Fluffy, have you ever been at Fluffy's Compton out here? No, I've never been there. It's the same thing. Like, it's every great moment in your career,

every big celebrity you've met. That is cool. Printed out, hung on the wall. I think there's picture of me in DDP's office. There is. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there is. And the cool thing is, like, you walk into that room and if you're not DDP,

you look around and you go, oh, wow, like, what a life he's lived. If you are DDP, you look around and go, what a life I've lived. I see both sides. I don't think there's anything wrong with being proud of what you did. You know, like we've lived this life. We chose this path.

Like, if you're successful and there's all different levels of success, like, why not be proud of it? You know what I'm saying? Who's the person or what's the moment where you've been like, I can't believe because of what I do for a living, I got to meet this person or do this thing.

I'm not a big, like, not big into like meeting celebrities. I've met a couple through WWB and stuff like that. I just think that like, you know, I can wake up whatever I want. on a Tuesday and, you know, like,

walking to this toy room of all these toys and then some of those I made, you know, some of them are figures of me. Some of them are figures of my hot wife. You know, like, seriously, like, as a teenager, I had posters of these WDivas on my wall. I'm literally married. They're not called divas anymore,

but I'm married to one. You know what I'm saying? Like, I used to envision what they look like naked. I know what looks like naked. You know what I'm saying? I know exactly what you're saying. If that's not living the dream, I don't know what is. I'd like to shake your hand.

Thank you, sir. Good stuff. Congratulations. You're living your dream. I'm living the dream, baby. I'm sweating now. Chelsea is going to kill me for saying that. She's going to be proud of you, isn't she?

She's very proud of me. We'll tag her as a collaborator on that clip. Okay. She'll accept it, right? Right? And I think another reason why, back to why I'm so successful is that I'm so authentic and transparent. and I have no filter.

Like what you see is what you get. And not saying everything I say is right or wrong, but it's like, this is it. This is how I feel. This is like, you know, wrestling is my love, my passion. I'm a big kid at all right.

I love Disney, love universal, love toys. Take her or leave it, you know? And then in the ring, ask a couple of guys, I'll stiff you.

I'm a hard hitting son of a bitch. All of that was so well said. Well, thank you. You were going viral, you know, making people notice you with your YouTube show back then. Yes.

What do you think is different about going viral and getting noticed now. There's so much more noise now. I think, you know, social media, it's this free tool. It's free advertisement. If a wrestler, especially independent wrestler, is not using it, what the fuck you're doing, right? Double-edged sword is free for everybody. How are you going to stand out, right?

So it's a lot harder to stand out. But also now, like, the algorithm, like, you could start today. If you have a hoppy as a content, you could take off. You don't need X amount of followers and a percentage of those files will see it. Yeah. With the algorithm now, the TikTok style, you put something out as good, people will see it. Yeah. TikTok especially.

You could have 16 followers and get a million views. Absolutely. Yeah. So if you're just continuing to feed this content machine, how do you know when something's good? The numbers. Numbers don't lie. There's things that I think are great. Yeah.

Nothing. There's things that I just put up to put up, 100,000 of views. Yeah. I don't necessarily make things to go over. I just share everything. You know, and I'm just throwing things that. the wall and seeing what sticks. I feel like me and you have a very similar content strategy.

Yeah. Like I post 10 to 15 times a day on Instagram. Sure. And I just throw all the spaghetti at the wall. Yeah. One or two pieces, hopefully sticks. Like that clip that you were talking about marrying a diva, marrying a movie.

That's going to be a good one. That's a viral clip. I got you. But like, you know, like when people come to me for advice on the Indies and I say, like you got to post social media, like I do. There was one. I'm going to throw him under the bus. Joe Alonzo was the name.

Great kid. I'm going to throw him under the bus. I hope Joe. I know Joe well. I hope they slice a fire under your ass. He said, I post a lot. I said, give me your phone. I opened up a social media.

He hadn't posted like three or four days. What do you mean? You post a lot. You posted three or four times a day. You know? Like, what are you doing? Yeah, and in those three or four days, you've posted what?

10, 20 times? You have to. Yeah. You have to. Like, listen, I wish I didn't have to. I wish I wasn't on my phone 24-7. But like I said earlier, if I'm not doing it,

I can't rely on anyone else to do it. And it's so funny. Gary Vaynerchuk talks about this all the time. I'm going to tell you how to do it. I'm going to put all the information out there. I'm going to make it free because I know like 99% of you aren't going to do it. Right. For sure.

And that's exactly what you do. I see these seminars. Yeah. That content you've been putting out recently where it's like you talking in a seminar and you clip it out. Yeah, I'm about to do that again, actually, because I think I ran through all those clips. But yes. It's brilliant.

You're giving this invaluable advice for free. Right, for free. Well, those students actually paid for it. But you're getting But everybody on line gets it for free But you know Listen I always get to ask Can you do a seminar

And I was like oh I'm not going to teach someone How chain wrestle A because I'm probably not good at it You know? And B because I don't care about that stuff I'm not passionate It would be a cash grab

You know what I'm saying Like I would do it I get paid but I'm not There's nothing inside me That wants to teach you How to do a hammerlock Sure right But there was one in Orlando

House of Champions They finally got me to cave And said I'll do it I'm not bumping Not because I don't want to bump is because I want to teach these guys and girls about everything else, but the business side of the wrestling business. And I just did like a two or three hour Q&A,

and that's where those clips came from. And man, like it was, it was like that likely that I found out of my ass. I'm like, okay, I like this. I love coaching like this, these topics. I don't want to teach you how to do an Irish whip. You know what I'm saying? Like, you need that stuff.

Go to creative pro. Let Brian Myers, the best trainer in the world. And I mean that in all seriousness. Go there and learn how to wrestle. and the footwork and the fundamentals. I'm not going to teach you that stuff. But when it comes to the other side of it, the business side of it, there aren't, I can't think of anybody who's doing it better than you.

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Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Hencoe, follow and listen on your favorite platform. I don't know anybody who has the consistency on social media that you do. Other than maybe, I'm in a completely different category, but I guess, you know, I'm putting out that much content. I mean, and look at your numbers don't lie. You know, look at how many YouTube plaques you got? You know what I'm saying? I got a few now.

There you go, man. See? And it's hard work pays off. And the thing I always think about, like whenever anybody asks me for advice, I would just be consistent. Right. Like you just said, it's free. Yes.

Why wouldn't you want to put out as much content as you can possibly put out there? And also, like, I say this all the time, too, so you can't, this wrestling business, and I don't mean this in a negative way, it will chew you up and spit you out. It doesn't owe you anything. You can't just love it. this business when things are going great, when you're on top, when you're on TV, when you're going to tell you got to love this business when it fucking sucks. You got to love it when you're

not being used when like when you're injured when things aren't going your way. Because guess what? When when you get thrown a bone or something happens, you're going to appreciate a lot much more. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? Like yeah, you got to love it like eat, breathe shit wrestling. You got to love it like through the good and the bad. And it feels like to me there's two types of people that are signed to a major contract. There's the people who are like, that are two types of unhappy people that aren't being used. There's one that goes, well, I'm here. I'm still here.

At least I'm getting paid every two weeks. I'm getting that amount of money in my bank account. Then there's the other people that go, man, I'm getting paid that much, but I'm not happy here. I want to do more. And like, those are, I think of the people that ask for a release. And listen, I see both sides of it. Like, it ain't, like, this is a wrestling bit.

It's about money, right? So I see both sides. Like, if you're not getting paid, that's great. I'm not wired that way. You know, like, I want to be. use. I want to creatively be fulfilled. I want to be happy. I want to do all these things. So being on the independence, having all these different avenues and having my hands and so many different things. Like, man, it's been so much fun. It's been so rewarding on so many different levels.

Is there anybody on the Indies you still haven't worked? I'm sure. I'm not sure there's tons of people, but like, is there somebody on like the bucket list? No, I have no more dream matches. Like I wrestled edge and matriman's dead. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I think this the truth. You know, my dream matches, which one's going to make me the most money? But no, in all series. Like, I would love to, you know, Cody, you know, or, or Cina. Or, listen, I pitched Cina to wrestle me at Hammerstein Ballroom, GCW, like, because I had this, uh, a mystery opponent. I reached out.

I, I, I threw the hell Mary, you know? Obviously, he couldn't do it. But I tried. But you went back and forth with him about it? It was a back and forth. A question and a response. A question of response. But I tried.

Because I knew, like, I, I, I need an. opponent, Ramersstein ballroom. What if it's Sina? You know, and plus him coming back. Yeah. For that, you know, because if Sina wins, we riot, you know. Of course. Didn't happen.

Wasn't in the car. Wasn't meant to be, but hey, we got some, we got some time left. Yeah. Now until December. We got some time left. That would have been unbelievable. Wasn't meant to be. Could you imagine hearing John Sina's music from G.C.W?

What have been nuts. Wow. Instead, they got Tommy Invincible. Similar. Similar. Right. That guy's crushing it. He is the best.

somebody, I can't believe I'm giving him more free press here, but he is, again, viral moment. Nobody's watching my show. He bust his ass, you know, I'm sure you've seen him. Yeah, right? He gives it all, and he does the shows with nobody there, and he's given, if it's a ball.

Like, this guy is great. I'm like, if somebody is going to leach off this guy, it's good, I'm going to be the first to do it. But since then, you know, I got him that Hammersine ballroom thing, and he handled it so well, like the people were shitting on him, they were booing him, but he like, he, he, he just soaked it in and he led him. And then I just brought him into the Vegas. I think it was his first flight ever to be a guest on our live podcast.

He did the same entrance, you know, for this podcast about wrestling videos. He comes in in trunks full gear, invents, about, like no pop. And he says, oh, man, thank you guys for that great response. And I'm like, oh, my God. He's such a great kid. Such a great guy. What does he need to get to that next level? I think he's going to get there.

I mean, everyone's talking about him. See Triple H. talked about him. And Ackery talked about him. Didn't Seena post about him? Seed a post about it? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's only a matter of time. I think you're right. That's right, baby. It's kind of like when you see the band before they get the radio signal. Yes. That's what this feels like. Yeah.

So no more, like when you look at the people who are available to be indie wrestlers, people you could bring out of retirement and have a moment with. You've done them all? I just don't think about it in like in that way. Like, I think about like, um, like money. I'm seeing a theme here. Well, no, because like, what match is going to be the biggest box off of an attraction in that way? Like, what's going to create the most buzz?

You know, like... But if you're in a small town in, you know, some state, what does it matter? Like, sure. You're going to get X amount of people no matter what, don't you think? I do think there's something to, like, maybe revisiting one day the Nick Gage thing. Okay. Another death match with Nick Gage, but the money and the buzz, the circumstances have to be right. I don't want to just do another death match to do another death match.

But that match, it changed my career, changed my life. The original death match, really the only one that I've done, people say all the time, like, oh, man, I love all your death matches. And I'm like, yeah, thanks, bro. The one. But I've worked the whole wrestling world into thinking I'm this death match wrestler. Because I had won the way I, you know, capitalized on it. Call myself the death match king.

We're in the crown. Branding is key. I had one. Listen, I've done some other, like, violent things or street fights, whatever. but the true death match, I've had one. You probably thought I had much. No, I know you had one. But I'm fascinated by branding.

So if you call yourself something, and you start to believe it yourself. And I do believe it. Everybody else will too. And it doesn't take long. No. Like if you start to do it for a few weeks, months. Right.

Perception is reality. I used to hate that saying, but it's true. It is so true. It's true. It is so true. So whatever you want to call yourself, if I want to call myself the interview king. Right. And I say it enough times.

Right. I'm the interview king. I'm going to shove the complete down everyone's throat. You know what I'm saying? Complete Matt Cardona. I make sure, even like as simple as when the announcers like, oh, how much you weigh, like what's your head? Make sure it's the complete, like everywhere, you know, on all my social. Like the announcers, my merch, everything.

It's on my gear. You could have the Jerry McGuire catchphrase. Show me the money. That's not him. What's from the movie? Yeah. You complete me. Oh, bad.

Chelsea Green, you complete me. Show me the money. Seems to be the theme here. I mean, listen, I would do this for free. I heard Christian Cage say, I would do this for free. Don't tell anybody. I'm the same way. Like, I'm truly living my dream in so many ways.

The wrestling. Yeah, I was a kid. I wasn't even a kid. I was in high school still playing with these wrestling figures, you know, having my fig. Now, like, I'm getting paid to talk about them. I'm getting paid to make them, you know, making legends who either, like, haven't had a figure in years or, or never had a figure, or people who just got released. Now, I'm giving them a way to make money.

So I'm giving them, you know, getting them a payday. And then when they go to these conventions, they're signing, making more money. So, like, not that I like giving back, but, like, it does feel good to give back, you know? Christian actually told that story on my podcast. That's where he said it. Yeah. And it was so brilliant. And for anybody who hasn't seen the episode, I'll sum it up here.

He was explaining to a radio DJ what he did. Right. And the radio DJ goes, oh, it sounds like you get paid to do the thing you would have done for free. Right. Huh. Yeah. That's it. Yeah.

How, I think about this all the time. And you know, I love gratitude. I say to my wife, every day, not only how lucky am I that I found her and, like, we're the perfect match. She's the best thing has ever happened to me. How lucky do I, am I, that I get to do this for? for a little. Right. Yes. Like sit and share a conversation with somebody who has been there and done it and is at the top of their game. Like, how lucky am I that I just get to like learn from that person? Right. And share this conversation. At the same time, it's not lucky. You worked your hassle for it. Yeah. And I, and that's the whole thing of like preparation meets like. Yeah. Opportunity, hard work. There's so many, there's so many things that go into it, you know? Yeah. And that's, that's you. You are like, you were that personified. And I, I'm sure you were aware of this. But it's the idea that, like, you're in the position that you're in because you've worked your ass off. Yeah, you know, and I joke and I call myself like the self-made superstar where, you know,

but the fans got me here, you know, whether it be the YouTube show or, and they supported me when they really shouldn't have, you know, even that WrestleMania match, like, I'm just the ladder match. I'm just thrown in there. And the moment, you know, winning was cool, but the moment wouldn't have been special if they, like, didn't care that I won. Place went fucking nuts. Yeah. And they had no reason to believe.

me. They saw my career go down the toilet get pushed off the stage of wheelchair, do nothing for years. But that night, they believed in me. And now this post-WB run, they're supporting me again. You know, whether it's new fans, old fans, it's crazy to go to these shows or even, you know, whether it be a fan who grew up watching or like a wrestler who grew up watching. You know, it's like, it's wild to hear these stories. And like, without the fans, I'd be nothing. So yes, I joke in characters and I'm the self-made superstar. And yes, I do believe, like, a lot of stuff I had done on my own, but without the fans, I'd be nothing. I think you could make an argument that you laid down a blueprint for someone like Joe

Hendry, who just kept chipping away, chipping away, chipping away, kept getting over and over and over with the fans so big that TNA couldn't ignore him. Sure. And he became, now he's the TNA world champion. I say it's all the time. Like, when someone comes up and they ask for like, I just started wrestling, like, you have any advice? Yeah.

Don't quit. That's it. Because it's not over until you quit. when you quit, then it's over. You know what I'm saying? Like, right now, like, do I wish I was somewhere else? Maybe, right? But it's like, I'm not there yet.

And not there yet. You know what I'm saying? I haven't achieved everything I want yet. Yeah. And it's not over until I quit. When I say it's over, then I never achieved that thing. But I'm not throwing in the towel yet. Yeah.

Do you think about how much longer you want to do this? Until the wheels fall off. I love it. I love it. And I feel like, listen, I'm in the best shape I've ever been in. I feel like I'm not missing a beat, you know. Do I do the most acrobatic, technical, you know, stuff? No.

Like, I'm the same wrestler I was when I was 18. Well, you know, like I'm still moving the same. Of course, I've grown and gotten better and stuff like that. But I feel like I'm at my game in the ring. You know, I don't care, like, who I'm in the ring with. I feel like I bring out the best in them. And like, this is going to sound ridiculous. But when Jericho and I were having that little AW thing, he compared me to Brett Hart.

I was like, that's pretty ridiculous. But I'm like, you know what? Like, that's a great compliment because I feel like Brett Hart could have a match with anybody and could adapt to anyone's style. And listen, I'm not saying I'm as good as Brett Hart because I know this is going to turn it to Matt Corona says he's as good. But no, I don't think I'm as good as Brett Hart, the best there ever is, you know. But like I do feel like I can adapt to any style, you know, whether it be a high flyer or

a death match guy or just anybody. You know, I can have a great match with anybody. I feel like that's my one of my best. qualities. Do you take care of yourself differently or train differently now? Not as well as I should. Sorry, DDP. I'm not doing that DDP Y, really like I should. I think about I should be doing that way more often. Recovery, the stretching. Like, this is, my body is my tool and we're not getting any younger. Yeah. You know what I'm saying. I've had some injuries. Uh, knock on wood. I don't know if there's real wood. It is. Hopefully no more injuries,

right? You can't, you know, you can't always prevent. You do whatever. You can't prevent an injury. Like when I told my peck, I threw a clothesline. A move I've done literally thousands of times. This one, you know? Did you know immediately? Immediately. It was the worst. It was the worst.

It was for Booker T's reality of wrestling. Nobody's fault. I was wrestling Kenny King. Went to a clothes line over the top row. Did you hear it? I felt it. I've never told my peck before, but I knew I tore my peck. And I don't want to chew my own horn,

but afterwards they're trying to rush me. I'm like, in ER. I'm like, why am I going? of this ER in Texas, like, I know it's torn, where they're going to go, like, x-ray, MRI tell me it's torn. I had this line for the meat greet. You know what I'm saying? And yes, like, I'm thinking money to be made for me, but I'm thinking these people waited

who came to see me. I'm going to sign for all of them. That's just like how I'm marty. What was your pain level? I was a 10. Oh. It was, I tore my pack right off the bone. It was the, the best tear because it came right off.

And then, believe it or not, like, I'm a civilian at the end of the day, right? independent wrestler, you know, doesn't have, you know, like I have health insurance that I pay for right, but like, I couldn't get surgery. I couldn't even get in with a doctor. I had a, at Chelsea, like, asked W.V. to get me in with a surgeon. Why couldn't you get in? Because I'm just like Mac Hardin of the dude. You know what I'm saying? Like, they don't care about me. But what if, like, you know, it wasn't life-threatening, told my peck. You know what I'm saying? So for most people, how long do they wait for surgery? Probably weeks. What? Yeah. How do you function? Good question. Why didn't find out because WAPE, thank you, WV.

got me with their doctor in Orlando. I had surgery in a couple days. Oh, my gosh. So, like, if you just have a normal job, you're an accountant or you work in retail, you're screwed, you're in a sling. I think you're screwed,

pal. That's ridiculous. But then, you know, had the surgery. And again, in my calendar, I don't know if it was a Mickey Mouse, because 2024 might have a different calendar.

Yeah, what was 2024's calendar? But, oh, you know, it was a Chelsea Greed calendar. Oh, my gosh. That was weird because, like, because, you know, I'm at the airport and I get to,

email, you know, like, what you're available this day. I'm okay, so I get up my calendar and they're like, but it looks, it's like Chelsea Green on the beach in a bikini. Let me cover that up. Let me cover those boobs up. I just got to see that. That's my wife, for real, for real.

It's my wife. But I got hurt. I'm like, okay, the doctor said like six to nine months. I said, no fucking way. And I circled a date, a GCW, like their big wrestling, their WrestleMania every, every August, homecoming. I circled that day.

I said, I'm going to be back for that. It was. Wow. Yeah. I watched the Tom, 80 documentary years ago. It's like this hidden gem. It's called Tom versus Time on Facebook Watch.

Never seen it. And they're like 20 minute. It's like five or six episodes, 20-ish minutes each. But I was just so struck by his recovery and how much time he put into stretching and like massaging and lengthening out the muscles. And I think about this for you guys all the time of like, I think we do a few stretches here and there. Yes, I don't do enough.

You go in the ring and that's that. Right. And like the older you get. And as your career gets on, it's like that stuff's probably more important than anything. No, like I used to not even like warm up before matches. Now I need a good like hour to stretch, pop up, like get hot, you know? And a lot of it's probably mental, but there's a whole routine I do. Like DDP's 69.

He looks great. He looks great. He can still hold his leg above his head. And I think that people have this misconception that he's always been that flexible. Right. That's not the case. This is like a learned behavior. Sure.

Like he figured that out. So I'm with you. I got to do more. You got to do more. Let's stretch today. DPY. Yeah. I'll do in the alley of the Ukrainian cultural center.

Actually, there's probably not enough room. It might be a little cold there too. Jimmy Lloyd's piss on the floor. What happens if it's raining? Good question. Because it's, it's outside. It's drizzling right now. Oh, man.

What do you do? I'll sit in the car. You won't have a car. I've dropped my car up now. Jesus. I'll figure it out. What are you going to? I'm not sitting in the rain.

Well, they'll mess up my hair. Oh, they won't put anything. It won't put a tar box for you? No, this is GCW we're talking about. I mean, they don't have ring steps. GCW is fantastic, though. It's the number one indie.

By far. There's no question. It's the number one independent. And they're unlike any other independent because they run everywhere, not like not just a couple states. Like I've been all over the world for GCW. Then they still go places that they haven't brought me. They go to Japan, Mexico, England.

Like they brought me to my 50th state this year. I went to Hawaii, my 50th state. That was the only one on my left. list. I went with GCW of all places. You know, so they're the number one indie. I'm sure everybody who got released yesterday is hitting up Brett Lauderdale, you know, politics can get on. They should be. Yeah. And I feel like, and I feel like the other companies are seeing what GCW is doing. Sure. Going, oh, who's that person? Right. What are they doing? Yes. I've always wanted to ask you about your Broski shirt. The cut. How do you cut it have right here? Oh, my goodness. Okay.

The Brosky cut. Where does it start? You fold a a t-shirt in half. Hold in a half. Okay. Lengthwise? Yeah, lengthwise. Okay. And then the scissors. So you cut it in half and it so it makes both sides even. Okay, symmetrical. Symmetrical. And, you know, I want to accentuate my positives, you know, so I want to show that the side peck, a little last some traps. You just get a deep cut. Okay. And then you cut a little here to make the V, you know? And then if I'm going to wrestle, I cut the bottom off so it's easier to do that. One of my moves, my moves said is I ripped the shirt off, you cut the guy. Yeah, yeah, of course. I saw you do it on Thursday. Yeah.

Yeah. It's one of my moves, my move sent. And then your shirt goes in the crowd, right? Well, I try to tell the ref, keep it there because then I can sign it and sell it on whatnot. Every Monday,

6.30. You sell some ridiculous things on whatnot. I should think it's 530. I've sold some pretty ridiculous things and whatnot. That's right. You know my buddy, Jamil. So when we were at the hotel of WrestleMania,

I had my like note card like this of all the notes I was going to have. You sell that. Signed on whatnot. Yeah, I just threw it in, crumple it up, threw it in the trash. I can't do that. And he's like, you know, you know, Matt Cardona would have sold that on Whatnot.

I would have. I'm like, what are you talking about? There's a lot of. Do you want to sell this one on whatnot? We could both sign it. Absolutely. I'm not even lying. My writing is so messy.

That's fine. What Not is a great revenue stream. It's something I've passed on to a lot of the wrestlers, right? So what it is, I don't know why I'm plugging whatnot, right? You're plugging everything. They used to pay me. They'll pay me anymore. But you make money on that.

It's so good that I'm like, well, I'm not going to stop using it. So what it is, it's like Instagram Live meets eBay. so I'm on every week. And it's an appointment viewing. If I went on right now, I get slaughtered. You know what I'm saying? And I probably like 50 or 60 items, 30 second auctions started.

50 or 60 items? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Started 99 cents and the people bid. So it's either ring worn gear, I have my own toy lines and my toys or toys I find on the road. Oh, that's a rare one that already have. Let me bring that.

Or maybe like there's a figure and I know I'm going to see, you know, I'm going to run into Matt Hardy. So I buy the figure you get Matt Hardy to sign it, sell it. you know, or something like this. Do you have a Sharpie? Are we doing this last? Why not? We might as well.

People will know it's legit, right? Yeah. They can see my, this is my terrible preparation for. Is this the first time right? I think, thank you, Zeus. Zeus at West Coast Creative Studios here. But then,

should I sign it first or should you? You sign it first? Yeah, it's a show. I'll sign it right in the meat of all these. Yeah, that's great. This is the first time. This is, this is fantastic. Yeah.

So you know, I'm not going to put this up. Yeah, I'm going to put it up after the episode drops to get more. course, then we'll know. That's right. So there's mine. Yeah, I'm a sign my right here. And then you know, not,

you can't just write Matt Cardona. It's right. The complete. Oh. You know what I'm saying? So I should write, I should put a. Well,

not necessarily because I just want to get that nickname over. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. No, it won't. I bet it goes for at least $99.00. What? I bet. I'll write one of one on it too.

So that people like limited stuff. Well, it is because flip it over. These are your research notes. Oh, wow. So did we get through all the topics? Should we give them both pieces of paper? So this is the potential question that my guy typed up here.

Alex Hunt, he's awesome. This is ridiculous. Oh, man. It's just another way to make money, right? And that's one of those things. Like, if I was in WWE, I wouldn't be able to do my own whatnot. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

At least I don't think so. What's the silliest thing you've sold on there? Well, sometimes, you know, like I'm at a hotel, like I'm doing in a hotel room and I'll sign like the toilet paper or they do not disturb sign. People want it. It's crazy. It's crazy. You know what I've done once? This is probably the carniest thing I've done.

I've like, you know, my cat's shed. So I like pet my cat put in a zip lock. Stop it. Do you sign the zip lock? I'm not sure if I signed the zip lock. Maybe I did. Maybe I did. And do you ship these items out?

I now have my best friend's wife comes and picks it up and ships it out for me. That's a good business. That's a good business. Okay. Yeah. Better than you shipping cat hair. It was just too much, you know. Time is money.

I have realized this. Yes. It's funny that when you start off in business, you are willing early on, you're willing to spend your time in order to save money. Right. And as you get going, as things get bigger,

you're willing to spend money in order to save money. Absolutely. You know, like so. It's funny how that flips on its head. Right. So like, you know,

for our toy business, you know, it's me, Brian Myers and this guy, Mike Kinnick. He's like the third guy. He's the guy that came to us. He was just a fan of our podcast,

fan of us. And, you know, he's making like our foam fingers or enamel pins and he's like i think i can make you guys toys he's hey bro if you go figure it out in china we'll cut you in yeah long story short he did and now we're a couple years into it and like we're not just doing wrestling now we're doing like right now if you go to collect major dot com we have uh stalone rambo like officially licensed what yeah we have kickboxer john club band damn and we we just saw i hate like hyping stuff up like stay tuned i

hate doing that, but we just signed something that's going to be like the coolest wrestling crossover, I think, ever for figures. And that's saying, and like, it's a sports and wrestling thing and I'm not a big sports guy. And even I think this is the coolest thing ever. How did you get Stallone to say yes or his people to say yes? Oh, back to the theme of this episode. Let me, but all are, all are, you know, the wrestling figures, all the wrestlers, whether it be, you know, macho man's estate or Fee. It's all officially licensed. They're all getting these royalty checks. And it's great, like, because then you're paying them, they're making good money, right?

And then they go these conventions and fans are bringing it to them and they're making more money signing them. Yeah. It's a whole business. Man. Like I convinced me and Brian convinced Bubba Ray to sign his Legends deal.

He didn't want to do it. He didn't understand like why he should sign. He said, no one else, you don't own Bubbery Dudley. No one else can make Dudley boy merchandise. So you sign, Mattel will make it.

Then you'll get paid for Mattel. And then you'll go to these conventions and the fans will bring it to you, and you make even more money. I think there's a lot of legends that go, oh, they're only offering me, and you know how much the offer it. Oh, man, that's not very much money for a Legends deal.

And they don't understand all the money in the back out. You know, especially someone like the Dudley boys, one of the best tag teams, I can't believe I just said this. One of the best tattoos ever. You're putting everybody over. But they're going to make a lot of figures of those. Of course.

All different, you know, whether it be Funko, Pops, Mattels, whatever. Sure. Put them in there with the Hardee's. Sure. Yeah. And then. I'm in there with Edging Christian.

Well, they can't do that because they're a TNA and A. You know what I'm saying. But there's so many different versions. And then they'll go to these conventions forever. Forever. I'm still signing Zach Ryder figures that came out in 2011. So did Devon also do the Legends show? This makes so much sense.

And now Bubba has agreed that we were right. Yeah, he's publicly thanked me. But I just, you know, I'm not trying. I want everyone to make money here. I want everyone to be successful. I want everyone to make as much money as possible. You know, with these wrestling figures, we don't make anyone sign an exclusive deal.

go, if there's another toy company, go sign with them. If someone's going to offer you a legend deal, sign with us first and then get that legend deal. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I want everyone to make as much money. We put our bodies on the line here.

A lot of those guys were gone. There's so many wrestlers. I was on the road 300 days a year. Nowadays, no one is anymore. Yeah. But back then they were, right? So, like, let them get the money now for all their hard work. Would you do an entrance in a Dolorian?

You did the, oh, ho. I actually said a text today. And not just a DeLorean. You'd have to do it in a time machine. It can't just be a DeLorean. So I've done the Ecto 1. Yeah. I've done the Jurassic Park Jeep.

Yeah. I think it might be next. It is the 40th anniversary of Matt Cardona and Back to the Future. Yeah, that's true. It might have to happen. At DeLorean rental on Instagram. I got a couple of places in New York. Although, here's a funny story.

So last year I used for G.CW for their homecoming show, I did the Jurassic Park thing. Yeah. So I had like dress park inspired outfit, which by the way, I did something that was never before done. I did with this company Super 7. We teamed up. We planned the figure in advance. So as I came out, there was a lower, first of the lower third on an indie show. Get the figure now.

It dropped in the gear on where it's never been done before. Brilliant. Came out on the dress bar jeep. And they just made some contacts with them. And I'd already used them or someone they knew for the Ecto 1. And months later for that Jericho match, Hammerstein Ballroom. A.W. came to me to me. Hey, like Jericho's going to do an elaborate New York engine.

You have anything in mind? I'm like, yeah, let me get the Ecto 1 and drive from the firehouse. They're like, okay. Oh, shit. So I'm like, well, actually, I know an Ecto 1 guy. So the night before, Hammerstein, I'm there at the firehouse with all the camera guys, dress in my Ghostbuster gear. No one, no shows.

No shows broke down, car trouble. I don't know if that's true. But, uh, so yeah, yeah, no Ecto 1 entrance. But I still like came out with the gear the next night. But yeah, it didn't work out that night. Jeez. Yeah. Well, the time machine.

Time machine. It's going to be badass. Fill it with the smoke on the inside. I think we'll have to do something. Open the DeLorean door. I don't want to spoil, you know, a potential entrance, but I'm working on it. Yeah. Yeah.

Back to the future, inspired. Just in case there's a figure or merchandise, you can't use the logos. You can't use the IP. You got to be smart about these things. You know it all. That's right. It's so good to see you. Thank you for all the business lessons.

There's been a wild combo, huh? This has been great. She's going to kill me. She's going to love that. Did I say anything bad? No, I'd say anything bad. I don't think so. No.

What could you have said that was bad? Listen, I think there's a great interview. I love talking to you because it's just a conversation. It's not like you were always ready. You had some questions, but you're not like, you know, reading off my Wikipedia like several others do. You know, it's a genuine conversation. You don't know what's coming next.

So I appreciate that. But it's also our fifth, I think. Is it? It's at least three or four, yeah. I think it's fifth. Yeah. So we've got to do something. different every time.

Yes, that's right. Who's the fourth? Yeah, do you know I won the intercontinental wrestling? Did you? Oh, boy. I didn't know that. Yeah.

Well, you know a question I'm going to ask now. Yeah. What are three things you're grateful for? I think it's going to be the same ones I said last time. Because every morning I actually say five. I have things I'm grateful for. So I beat you there.

I do many. Throughout the dam, it's like, no, like I'm definitely. So grateful I get to record this studio. There's a fireplace. I don't know if the camera can pick that up. The West Coast Cree of Studio.

Real fire, by the way. Yeah. Grateful for Chelsea, you know, like, she's my best friend. She's so supportive. She's also very hot. But seriously, like, I love her. Like, you know, like, we can go out and have, like, a night on the town or just sit in the couch with the dogs.

Like, it's the best time. I'm so grateful for her. You guys together are just the most fun, most goofy couple. I think, you know, like, it just right. It writes itself, like, we should be doing something. on television, whether it be like in wrestling or like some sort of reality driven thing, you know, like it just, it just writes itself. Maybe one day that will happen.

So I'm definitely grateful for her, grateful for my family, always being supportive. They're, they're healthy, you know, this month, they're coming down to Orlando. So I'm going to see all of them. I'm going to take them to Disney World, the Matt Cardona way, you know what I'm saying, the good way. You know, like, because there's ways to do Disney. There's ways to not do Disney. You know what I'm saying?

Like, when people say, like, oh, I hate Disney. I'm like, yeah, because you wait on lines, you don't know what you're doing. you're not planning it. What do you mean? Like, I plan it. I listen all the podcasts. I know all the tips, all the tricks, you know?

So like if I want to get on Space Mountain, well, are you rope dropping? Are you what, I got to plan your whole day for you. If you just go in the middle of the afternoon, wait online, on the standby line,

you're going to get screwed. You got to plan it. What's your first ride? What part are we talking? Are we rope drop it? There's so many, we have another podcast. Magic Kingdom.

Who I'd probably rope drop tron. Rope drop means you there. As they're like letting in, you race over. Do you actually run it? Just a speedy walk. Well, now I live there. So if I don't go on Tron, I'll go on it next week or something.

Do you go, do you not go on weekends? I go on weekends. Oh, okay. I'm usually not home on weekends. That's true. Like Tuesday and Wednesday are my weekends. Animal Kingdom. Ooh, Pandora, the flight of passage.

Of course. Yeah. Epcot. Epcot. Guardians of Galaxy. Okay. Cosmic ReW. Have you done that?

No. Best coaster. I haven't done that. Yeah. I like, I'm not like a roller coaster high five guy. We're like, great coaster, man. I want some. You know what I'm saying?

Like, this ain't six flags, pal. You know? Hollywood Studios. Rise of Resistance, Star Wars. Oh, that is a good one. It's like you're in the movie. Yeah, and it's such a long ride, too. It's so long.

Yeah, it's great. They don't call them rides, right? Attractions. Attractions. So, yeah, so I'm going to take my brothers, my parents separately. So I'm just so grateful for that. My family, always so supportive, you know.

California Adventure. Hmm. I love the Guardians ride there, like the old school tower tower. Spider-Man's okay. Soren. Soren. First? Yeah, it's class. It's not first. Classic.

Classic. It ain't first pal. No. Chelsea and I, we once started when she was released, we did a, we temporarily did a theme part podcast, but it almost led to our divorce. I'm kidding about the divorce, but we were like, button heads, argue,

because I was thinking it so seriously. She's like texting Diana the whole time. I was like, like, we're going to do this serious business. Anyway, so my family, grateful for my career. I've been doing this for 21 years. And it's wild. Like, we just had WrestleMania. And I was thinking, like, I think that was my 18th year being paid to go to WrestleMania.

Obviously, I wasn't, you know, wrestling on WrestleMania, but a lot of money at RussellCon. I was there, like 18th year being paid to go to, where all of these wrestling fans all around the world paying to go. You know, and at the end of the day, I'm just a wrestling fan who grew up loving this and not take a no for an answer, you know. And I think if anything, that's the thing I'm most proud of in my career, like not taking no for an answer and just work my fucking ass off until like it happened. And some things haven't happened yet. And hopefully I make them happen.

But the fact that I get to, you know, put on this little underwear, right? And then talk about little plastic men in their underwear and then make rubber men in their underwear. Is that not living the dream? What a perfect way to end this. Thank you, man. Thank you, buddy. Okay.

Thank you for joining us for this. and thank you for sticking around all the way until the end. Matt's work ethic is just insane. He's reinvented himself so many different times and so many different ways. And I think the big question that he's always going to get is some version of, do you want to go back to WWE or are you going back to WWE? Of course, we talked about it during this conversation. But in the meantime, until that happens, he's just going to keep reinventing himself. And also, and it was a recurring theme during this interview, he's going to keep finding new ways to make money.

What a great chat. Snap a screenshot and tag us online. He's at the Matt Cardona. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And I'll wrap this up with a quote from Nick Bear. It's better to be consistently good than occasionally great. Keep showing up in your life with whatever it is that you're doing.

Be great. grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Ask CVV number 83 tomorrow. If you're listening on Spotify, leave a question in the comment section there for Ask CVV number 83 or shoot me an email CVV at ChrisVeyn-Vlead.com or send it in on social media using that hashtag AskCVV, but we'll see you right back here tomorrow for AskCV Double. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock.

But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then?

To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. form.