Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Matt Taven on winning the ROH World Title, his new hair, Mike Kanellis, his injury

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

Former Ring of Honor Champion Matt Taven joins Chris Van Vliet for an interesting conversation. He talks about winning the Ring of Honor World Title at Madison Square Garden, his new haircut, being trained by Spike Dudley, his tag team partner Mike Kanellis, how his injury recovery is coming along, what he is doing to pass the time during the quarantine and much more!Thanks to Bet Online! Use the code BLUEWIRE at BetOnline.ag to get a 100% Welcome Bonus on your first deposit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Look at you, man. With the powerful questions. Woo! This is the Chris Van Bleach Show. Chris Van Bleachow. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris! The!

Welcome back to the CVV show. Thanks for joining us on another audio adventure. This episode is brought to you by Bet, online. And since last week with Sammy Callahan was the last in-person interview that we did, that means that from now until this quarantine, this lockdown, this stay-at-home order, whatever you want to call this, until this thing is lifted, all the interviews are going to be like this. They're all going to be done virtually, which, of course, has its pros and has its cons. The pro is, I can literally roll out of my bed, turn on my computer, and boom, we got ourselves

an interview. That's the pro. It definitely makes the travel easy. Although I don't mind the, I don't mind traveling on a plane. I don't mind airports. I don't mind the five and six hour road trips we've taken to make these interviews happen. It's a great time to lose at a podcast, right? The con though with these virtual interviews is that you don't actually get to be in the same room with someone. You don't get to look them in the eye, shake their hand, have that manly embrace that we often have. You also have to deal with technologies. So with that said, there's a few audio glitches in the sound here as one of our computers. I don't know if it was mine or Matt's was buffering.

So bear with them. Please power through them with me because I promise you, it gets sorted out as the interview goes on. And of course, as the interview goes on, it gets more interesting, the deeper that we get into this. And Matt Tavins, he's one of the poster children of Ring of Honor. And it's so fascinating hearing his journey, getting into Ring of Honor. and then to the top of Ring of Honor, winning won the World Championship almost exactly a year ago

during Mania Week last year at the sold-out Madison Square Garden Show. Man, what a moment that was. Now, I know there's a lot of people at home these days, which means, in theory, the review should be skyrocketing. The review should be pouring in on Apple Podcasts. What else you have to do other than watch Tiger King on Netflix?

We're closing in on 800 reviews, So that's amazing, by the way. We're just 200 more to go till that specific goal of a thousand reviews before the end of the year. Until then, though, I will keep shouting you out on the show if you're leaving reviews.

So thank you to Roman Studios, who left this review. It's titled Work Jams. When I'm working, I am listening to your podcast. I'm not even really a podcast person, but I love your interviews. Well, I love you, Roman Studios. You're awesome.

Thank you. appreciate you taking the 27 seconds out of your day to help out the show. And this is the most helpful thing you can do for the show. So thank you. It really helps climb the charts. Like, it still blows my mind that the CVV show is on the Apple Top 200. Wow. The show isn't even a year old yet, so I can't thank you enough for that.

And just for continuing to support the show in general. This is awesome. Now, if you're a Ring of Honor guy, the name Matt Taven is one you've been familiar with. for about 10 years now. He's gone through some character changes. He's gone through some haircut changes, and he's only the second person in ROH's history to be a Grand Slam champion.

If you're a Ring of Honor fan, you already know who the first one is, but I'll tell you anyway, it's Christopher Daniels, and that's some pretty great company to be in. Now, Matt Taven has a crazy, impressive frog splash, and he tells me why his trainer, Spike Dudley, played a key role in making his frog.

Splash look as good as it does. I can't wait to see Matt Taven back in the ring, both after this coronavirus thing ends and when he comes back from injury. We cover it all and so much more with the Matt Taven. I can't believe it worked. That's great. And there we go. All right.

Well, it's good to be face to face with you, even though we're not actually, you know, face to face right now. As close as we can do, quarantine person to person. in this that we can do right now according to the CDC and the government. So we're just, we're being good boys by doing it this way. We are. I mean, we are at least six feet away. We might be, you know, a thousand miles away, actually. Yeah. Yeah, you're a good plane ride away, which I probably wouldn't do right now as it is. So this is probably as close as we can get to one another. Well, it's good to be able to do this. I appreciate you taking the time. How's,

how's everything going in your world? It's quarantine, I mean, it's crazy how much the dog has gone walked more than ever in his life. And I'm sure he appreciates it, even though he seems like he's more tired than ever. But I need something. Like, I'm so bored. And then there's those dumb things. Like, I'm in my office right now. And I'm like, I'm supposed to be cleaning one of these closets in the office.

I was supposed to finish some taxes for this quarter. I haven't done any of that. And when I think about it, I'm like, I have all the time in the world now. I have no excuse. but I just, you know, I just don't want to. Quarantine life's got me doing nothing and enjoying it, I guess. I'm in being to get out, but I'm enjoying my time inside. It's funny how when you're in this quarantine life right now, you do like one thing and you're like,

look at all the stuff I accomplished today. This interview right now, that's my day. I was like Wednesday, I got this. And then I don't know, I'll find some little documentary to watch or something. What are we drinking over there? We're drinking the shop and stop brands. There it is. Shop and stop brand selsa water because the polar salsa water was sold out.

That in toilet paper is in high demand here in the Boston area. Jeez. So if life was continuing on as normal, if we weren't in quarantine, if all this wasn't going on in the world, what were your bookings looking like over the last few weeks? Well, I mean, obviously with Ring of Honor, I'd be heading in Tampa tomorrow. actually. I was just thinking about it. And, you know, I had Russell Con and then the Super Show and stuff like that, SuperCard. And also I help out at Northeast Wrestling.

I do a lot of stuff behind the scenes there. We had a show Matt Hardy's return was canceled as well. So it's like a lot of stuff that this time of year especially, like a year ago we were headed into Madison Square Garden. A lot of stuff that you're just expecting to be busy at this time of year. You're like, none of that's going to happen. What am I doing? So it's kind of crazy because you've got to find new ways to do all sorts of things. Me and Mike Bennett, we started the XWA Wrestling Kingdom in Rhode Island.

And obviously we haven't been able to get in there with everything going on. It's been we shut down the school for obviously safety reasons. But now we, tonight we're going to have like a Skype class, which I'll have to try to figure out what to talk about for a couple hours via Skype to everyone. So it's just kind of things like that. You know, you have to find ways to not only keep yourself not bored, but to keep yourself engaged with everyone else who's bored out of their minds at home. Like right now is a great time to put out content.

At the same time, it's like, well, what do I talk about? Huh, let me think of something that happened years ago and I'll talk about that. So it's definitely a strange time and I'm trying to stay busy much like yourself. Well, I think you've keyed on on something interesting there because there is, is a lot more need for content right now and certainly a lot more want for it. But there's a difference between just putting out content and putting out good content. I appreciate that you're actually taking the time to go, what would people actually want to hear about? Yeah, I mean, Ring of Honor is going to air the entirety of the Supercard show from last year.

So in conjunction with that, I'm doing some things, doing like a little Players Tribune for the website, kind of talking about everything that led up to last year's Madison Square Garden Show. And, you know, obviously, with so many odds of things to watch, you've got to, like, find something that's going to catch someone's eyes. So, you know, Brimaud is going to pump this up. Then we're going to do a couple of things to tag along with it. And in the meantime, you know, I'm like everyone else watching Tiger King and trying to figure out how I figure out a documentary about myself

that everyone's going to sit on their couch and watch for the next week. I feel like everybody in the world has watched Tiger King. And if Netflix didn't have this planned out, like I feel like Netflix maybe was going to release this later in the year. And they went, quarantine, let's get this thing out now. They have some sort of masterminds out there at Netflix because they came out with that pandemic show, like right before everything happens. So someone's on the inside there.

And actually, you know, we did a loop one time from Dallas and Austin maybe up into to Oklahoma City and me Jay Lethal, Dalton Castle, a couple others. We stopped at Joe Exotic's Tiger. Because when you're driving, when you're driving through Texas, you see billboards everywhere of Joe Exotic like lying across the tiger and you're like, I have to go to the plate. I have to go there. And since Jay is from the Tampa area when he told him that he was from there,

they started freaking out thinking we were from Big Cat Rescue, you, you know, some sort of secret spies trying to take the place down. But after calming down, the people at the front desk, they allowed us to roam the grounds. And it was a decent time. I'm not going to lie. It wasn't the best time. Wasn't the worst time. It was okay.

You know, 228 tigers on a billboard, you're going to stop at that place, obviously. It didn't disappoint. I wasn't upset that we stopped there, but I wasn't also blown away at the same time. The best part about this story is that they thought that Jay Lethal was employed by Carol Baskin. Well, it didn't make sense to me, like, why they were freaking out. And there's actually a podcast about the whole Joe Exotic thing. And when I heard the podcast, that's when it finally, you know, made sense to me. And I, like, called Dalton.

I was like, remember when they freaked out that Jay was from Tampa? I was like, that's because you try to kill that chick. So it was, it's definitely, you know, we try to explore as much as you possible and it's weird when you find yourself at places that now there's you know everyone's obsessed about because there's a Netflix documentary about it right well you'd mentioned Madison square garden you know that's exactly a year ago now that's obviously a big night for you um you know is would you say that was the biggest night of your career it's the best night of my life i mean when i think about it is it's the best night of it's the best thing that i've ever done in my entire life i'm

I've, you know, I became a wrestling fan at six years old, watching WWF, watching Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior. And it seemed like everything that was, that was anything special happened at Madison Square Garden. And now here I am in Madison Square Garden alone, you know, in the main event, in a ladder match. And then I find out, you know, right before, and people don't believe me when I say this, but I found out hours before I walked out there that I was winning. And it's just, it's like, I still feel like it's a movie. Like I still, when I watch it, it doesn't feel, it feels like I'm watching someone else live that experience. Because I still look at it in my memories as like a movie because all the lights and all like the hoopla around it. But yeah, man, it's, it almost makes me like laugh like a madman when I think about it.

Like, I won the title of Madison Square Garden. What? So it's, it's the best thing that has ever happened. to me professionally, personally, it's everything. So someone from Ring of Honor put things in perspective for a lot of us, and especially for me, because they said, you know, this might be tough right now and we might be bored or down or worried about, you know, what the world is going to be like when this is all said and done.

But if this happened a year ago, we would have missed out a Master Square Garden. And like, shelf, you know, for me personally, to be shelf-is about it for a a quick second. It's like, thank God that that didn't happen that. It took away the best moment of my life. So it's a crazy experience. And still, you know, a year later, I still feel like, oh, man, that happened. So it'll definitely be something that when I'm in a nursing home one day, I'll have bragging rights over whoever my roommate is at the time. And, you know, I'll tell him that he never won the title of Madison Square Garden. I think people, you know, fans often don't appreciate the fact that you will show up to the show

not knowing the outcome of, you know, what's going on there. So when you were, you know, heading into that was New York, who do you think was going to win that match? You know, I've talked about, you know, it's such a polarizing Madison Square Garden. And it's like, there's so many things that come to mind or that are talking points. And I truly am a believer that if you were a Ring of Honor fan that watched this product consistently, that saw what happened in Vegas, that saw what happened months before, basically since I returned from Mexico and declared myself the real Ring of Honor World Champion, it had to be me. But it's just, but that's me thinking also as, you know, as biased as I can be that, yeah, I should be the one to win him at Claire Garden. But I'm also a wrestling nerd and a wrestling historian.

end. I think that's what us wrestling marks call ourselves. But it's one of those things where I realize like a show like that, it could just the baby face because you want to feel a good moment. But if you the storyline, it should go to me. Like there's just, it had so many things. It should go just stay on Jay to make, to solidify him as the franchise of the company. I think there was, you know, everyone could have, it could have gone this, it could have gone that. But to me, after you watch me and Jay Leitha go 60 minutes in Vegas, there's only one, I'm dead if I don't go over at Madison Square Garden. I basically, you know what I mean?

I prove everything. I'm saying I'm the world champion and I go 60 minutes that I do. I live up to and then all of a sudden I fail. I don't know where I go at that point. So for me personally, I think it was the right choice. And I would do it again. There were probably points in your career, though, where you thought, man,

I should have got the title five years ago or six years ago or something like that. This was probably just, you know, this was a long time coming for someone like you. Yeah, I mean, I think, and I guess it goes to my confusion sometimes with my love, hate relationship with the internet, is that, like, I grew up as one of those fans that loved seeing those guys work their way up, like Brett Hart was a tag wrestler. Then he was the intercontinental champ. Sean Michael, same thing. Then all of a sudden, he's the world champion.

He did it. He made it all the way at the top. I feel that, like, people feel that way with guys like Dolph Ziegler now. And it's like, you know, these guys that you've seen have worked all the way up. And Ziegler's been the world champion, but people still feel like, oh, come on, this is the guy that we've been behind forever. For me personally, I feel like that's a similar story with me is like I was the television champ. I was a tag champ. I was a six-man tag champ.

And I progressed along the way. it's like, this is what, you know, a wrestler, for me, what I always thought like my wrestling destiny would be to work my way up and to like work my way up the ladder like this. So there was definitely times where, you know, I thought it might happen when Dalton got hurt. I thought it might happen then. And it didn't. And honestly, you know, thank God it didn't because then I got to win it at Madison Square Garden. So suck on that, right?

So it's like it's one of those things where, you know, you think that maybe everything does happen for a reason. I've made so many mistakes. I've had so many setbacks. So many things have happened here and there. But when it comes down to it, in the end, I win the world title on Mass and Square. I don't know if I would trade anything for that, right? Right. And obviously your character has evolved a lot as well.

Could you have seen your old character being the world champion? I thought that was, like I said, I thought there was a chance when Dalton was the champion, but when it didn't happen, it made me really go, well, I've done this. I've been, you know, Matt Taven, Hoopla, I've been Matt Taven with the kingdom. I need to do something to change things. And it was, you know, one of the reasons why I wanted to do the hair match in Mexico. And when I came back, I had, you know, a different look. But it's just more of an attitude of like, I've made a vented arena,

I've made a event at Sumo Hall. I've been here for years. I've won everything here. If you don't believe in me, well, then go F yourself. Because this is, this is the guy. I'm the guy. Take it or leave it. And I had just that chip on my shoulder.

And it was like, you know, like I said, everything, I guess happens for a reason because it's just the stars were aligned. And I could tell from that first night back, Will Osprey, Jay Lethal, the incredible match in Vegas. I show up and dump Jay with the new title belt. And I could just feel the reaction. I was like, I've done the right thing. Like, making the change right now was the right move.

But also at the same time, like, I've seen my idols continuously change. And, you know, there's no better example than Chris Jericho. You know, he continues to do it now. And he always is coming back with something fresh and new. And I would be lying if I didn't say that he's one of the reasons why. I have done a lot of things in my career as far as especially traveling internationally. So that's always in the back of my mind is like if they've seen it, then what makes it different now?

You have to make it different. You have to change it up. You have to keep it fresh. And it was the thing that was on my mind that I thought would bring me to the world title. I think that sounds scary though, because you've had, you know, these other things. Right. You've got these other, you know, gimmicks and characters that have worked. and for you to abandon that for the unknown,

hoping, betting on yourself that it's going to work, and that's a big leap. I had long hair for over a decade, and I love long hair. I personally, all my favorite wrestlers had long hair. I grew my hair out because I thought you had to have long hair to be a wrestler. To get my head shaved in Mexico is a terrifying thing. Like, I don't know how I look with a shaved head.

And it's just like, will this change everything? Well, if I come back with a new look and I really want to strip things down and just make it like slightly similar because I was still with the king for it. You know what I mean? Something new. To show up and say like, here's me. And if whatever everyone goes, oh no. You're like, please don't do that. Please don't do that.

So it's a terrifying thing. And it gives me even more respect for guys that are able to continue. can usually reinvent themselves, come back, and stay fresh. Well, now you're in great company in Ring of Honor being a Grand Slam champion. It's you and Christopher Daniels. Yeah. That's it. I mean, that's pretty amazing to be mentioned in the same sentence as someone like Daniels.

Oh, without a doubt. And like just the Ring of Honor World Title alone to look at the lineage of guys that have done that. And it's something that you really truly can't appreciate in the moment. and I'm getting to kind of appreciate it now because a lot of the stuff I'm doing, I'm reliving past stuff. But if wrestling wasn't being,

you know, affected like everyone else's with the coronavirus, we'd be talking about current stuff. And you live in such a go, go, go time that you really don't have a lot of time to smell the roses in wrestling. I always joke that it's, you know, here today, gone today.

Because the wrestling business turns like that. And I can even tell from, like, interactions on my social media since I've been hurt and not necessarily on TV as much lately. You know, it's just a natural thing kind of out of sight out of mind, which I get. And the wrestling business, it does that more than any other business I personally feel. So to put my name in the history books with guys like Christopher Daniels, but the Jay Lethals, Dalton Castles, Adam Coles, Cody Rhodes, guys that I've respected, you know, And all the way down the line, the Samoa Joe's that held that title for over a year,

it's like, wow, my name is next on that list. It was definitely a proud moment. And then other things that I really didn't know that I was like the only one to win a title in CMLL, New Japan, and Ring of Honor. It was like me, Rocky. And I think now Dragon Lee and Tama have been added to the list. But at first, I was like, look at me. I've done it again. So it's, it's, you know, there's been so many cool things to happen.

And I'm just, as a wrestling historian, Mark, I'm just happy to really kind of cement my name in a lot of those different categories. Well, so many of the people that you named or a lot of, you know, people that you've wrestled against, you know, have spent some time in Ring of Honor and then they've gone on, you know, elsewhere to do something else. Why is, why have you been so loyal to Ringham Auto? I mean, Matt Taven, Ring of Honor, you know, they go hand in hand. You know, and there's so many different things. I've always been a fan of those guys that stick with one team forever. You know what I mean? The Larry Byrds.

Like in my mind, Michael Jordan never played for the Wizards. That's just ridiculous. You know what I mean? Magic Johnson. It's just like those guys that are synonymous, they brand themselves basically with their team logo. And it's always been something that is. been on my mind. But there's been a million things that Ring of Honors that has been there for me time after time. I've made a million mistakes. You know, I've done a million dumb things. And it seems like

Ring of Honor is always kind of, instead of pushing me down, picked me up. And there was one thing in particular that happened when I got injured four years ago. You know, I blew out my ACL at a time that was if people knew what was going on backstage, it was just complete chaos because Mikey and Maria were going to TNA or they were at least in the midst of their contract stuff like me and Cole there was talks about us something else and boom blow out my ACL um and my contract's about to expire it's about to expire like Mike's and so Mike knows that he's going elsewhere I thought I was staying but now all the sudden this I'm hurt before my contract expires and ring of honor comes to me and they say you know what don't we'll we'll honor

our deal the way it was until you're back and we'll just we'll take care of things from there and I was like from a guy that you know really killed himself on the indies and you never know when that next paycheck's coming when that next you know the indies you're lucky if you get a hot dog and a handshake after you wrestle and for being to be in a scary situation where you're like I'm about to be a free agent and hurt what am I to do like how do I sell myself to people people will just say oh well tell when you're healthy again. Well, they eat in the meantime. You know what I mean?

From now, like I get back in the ring, the bills still keep coming in. So for Ring of Honor to say, hey, man, we want you to be here. We will take care of you. You're part of our family. I never forgot that for a second. And I never will. Well, you talk about guys that stay on the same team their whole career. You're a Boston guy.

And that was Tom Brady for the longest time. Oh, why? It's tough. There's a real sick part of me that is almost like happy that there's a chance the NFL season might get canceled. That's what you get. That's what you get, Tom, all right? You don't even get to play now. You left us.

Cancel this whole season. Cancel it. But, yeah, no, I, man, I don't know. Like, I'm still going to wear my Brady jersey. Like, it's not, like, I'm still going to think that Tom is the greatest of all time. It's just I grew up when the Patriots were terrible. And like when I started getting older, we started getting better. And like kids in this area, they have no idea what it was like to be like the bottom of the basement patriots.

And to think that that life is coming back on Sundays is not exciting for me at all. So I'm very disappointed. But, you know, Tom, God, Tom didn't you see what happened when Joe Montana left when he went. went to Kansas City, it was just not that great. Why would you leave us, Tom? Come on. Belichick is such a great coach that I feel like he's going to make whoever goes into that position fantastic in that role. Oh, without, I mean, that's the thing, is that like, I'm not too concerned of what the future will be, and especially in the AFC East, but to see Tom Brady in another uniform, like my friends, you know, jokingly send me like the new Bucks jersey.

Like, are you going to, you're going to buy this? I'm like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. It just doesn't even look right looking at it. So it's been a tough, tough offseason here in an area, let alone coronavirus keeping us all indoors. Like half the Patriots team has left. So it's been a tough one. It's a sore subject. I'm so sorry.

Very sore subject. How have you been able to work out with the, okay, I guess. I'm a lot of workouts. Are you working? worried about losing mass. I'm worried about gaining mass is my problem. No, I mean, like I've been able to work out at home enough. You know, I have through the years, you have so many bands and cables and weights and like machines that we have like I have in the house.

It's just not the same as like your normal gym workout. So it just feels the same. And like getting cardio in, you have to find, you know, different ways to do it. I'm not very much of an outdoor runner as far. especially after a couple of knee surgeries, I've made that a lot more difficult. So, like, for me to do cardio in the wild is a little different. I found, like, you know, four floors of stairs

to just run up and down for a half hour. And you have to find things like that. My biggest concern is right now being only a couple months out of knee surgery. And right after final battle, I had surgery on my ankle, I've been going, you know, to PT and rehabbing both those injuries. Right now, unfortunately. both the places I was going to for my injuries are closed because of the coronavirus. So luckily, you know, my doctors have been keeping up with me via email and stuff,

and I've been able to do a lot of stuff at home. Unfortunately, there are things that just treatment stuff that I wouldn't be able to do unless I was there in the office. So I'm hoping that things can calm down more for my rehab more than anything. But, man, working out at home is the worst. You know, it's like you're in the middle. You're in the middle of crunching away, and you're like, do I really want to do 20 more crunches? Or could I get up and watch my favorite TV show and, like, you know, go in the kitchen and distract myself by looking in the cabinets for a habit.

It's like you find any excuse not to work out when you're at home. There's something about getting your shoes on, getting into your car, driving to the gym, and then going, all right, well, now I'm here. I might as well work out. Yeah, of course. And like I'm a firm believer that if you're getting dressed, I've been like able to do cameos and stuff like that for people that are saying, I have no motivation to work out or work at home. And I'm like, you know, get dressed, getting your routine. But if you're getting dressed where you're putting jeans on, you're a serial killer. We're doing all these meetings from the chest up.

I have sweatpants on. I'm in a Jersey right now anyway. But if I had jeans on, call the police. Okay. You're going to quarantine, an uncomfortable wear. You should be in leisure wear, athletic wear, while you're in quarantine, or you're the next psychopath, and we should probably never let you out of quarantine. I appreciate that you're wearing pants at all.

I mean, I was actually thinking about it. I was like, but I'll do something dumb, and I'll get up halfway through the interview, and everyone will see, like, you know, some Speedos on or something ridiculous, cheetah print underwear on or something. Well, you know what that music means. It's time to thank our awesome sponsor, Blue Wire. Also time to get on a microphone that sounds a lot better here. Now with currently no NBA, NHL, or MLB, you might be thinking, Chris Van Fleet, there's nothing to bet on.

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Just make sure to use the promo code, Blue Wire, all one word. Bet online. It's your online wagering experts. How are you feeling after the surgery? Like if everything were to keep going on with your rehab, when do you think we could see you back in the ring? I mean, the thing was the ankle surgery was going really well. And then I had my knee done. And that kind of had a little bit of a fluctuating timeline with depending on how it was going to react to certain treatments.

And now that I can't go in for treatment, it's a little bit up in the air. I mean, I'm hoping to be back ASAP. Definitely before the end of the year, you know, I have made the statement when I first went to surgery that I would be world champion again before end of 2020. And I plan on living up to that statement. So I'm just hoping that this quarantine thing can go by quicker, safely, but as quick as possible so I can get back. And so the doctors can clear me. You know, honestly, it's just so someone can look at me and bend my ankle in certain ways and said my knee won't sweat. up as much anymore and they can send me on my way.

But until this whole thing gets figured out, a doctor, a doctor does want to, they want to do this, but they can't really see, you know, exactly how, how I'm going to react to certain situations. At the same time, you know, we have the school, which is such a benefit for me to get back and roll around a little bit, but I haven't been in a wrestling ring at all since final battle. And again, with the coronavirus, it's one of those things where who knows when we're going to be able to safely get back in the ring. So my biggest thing is that I think four years ago when I came back from knee surgery, I came back probably too quickly, which is why I had this knee surgery just recently.

So I don't want to be, you know, I don't want to see any more doctors as long as humanly possible. So I'm going to try to take my time in rehab and make sure that when I come back, I'm good to go 100%. Yeah, well, that's the thing. I hope that you come back 100% and you know that you're better than ever. Now that's looking ahead. If we look back here, let's kind of like dial it back a little bit. Where did this all begin for you? Like where did your love of pro wrestling begin for you? Oh, man.

I can remember the story like it was like yesterday. And I'm sure my memory is not 100% accurate. It's a lot more beautiful in my mind, I'm sure. But my great uncle was staying with us. And my parents did not get professional wrestling. And until I was, like, deep, deep into professional wrestling, did they start to kind of come around on it? But when I was a kid, they would always be like, you really like that? You sure you like that?

They would bring me to the Boston Garden. And afterwards, they would say, like, we're returning on this day. And I'd be like, we have to go. And they'd be like, but are you sure you had a good time? Before you really like that. So anyway, our great uncle, my great uncle comes to stay with us. He is, you know, flipping through the TV guide or whatever, trying to find wrestling. and I can remember him telling me what channel to turn it to.

And I don't know if it was like this, but in my mind, it was like, I turned it on and it was that like, the World Wrestling Federation. And it was the ultimate warrior with like lightning bolts striking behind him and all these colors and stuff. And coming from a kid that's watching, you know, Thundercats and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles right before that, it's like all the superheroes that were cartoons now just came to life and were wrestlers. And so for me, I was hooked.

Like I was obsessed with it all through growing up, all through my childhood. But I think as we all grow up, and like I said, my parents were always like, oh, yeah, you want to be a wrestler, that's great, go get a job. So like, you know, I always wanted to be a pro wrestler my whole life. But my parents were like, yeah, you're going to college and you're going to do what everyone else does. So school, when, you know, graduated, actually started working for the New England Revolution and the Patriots. And one of my buddies that I grew up with,

who I used to backyard wrestle with. And funny story, Todd Hanson, one of the Viking Raiders now, he used to backyard wrestle with us as well. We're all from the same hometown. But another guy that was in our backyard wrestling federation was doing independent stuff. I came by to see him and I was like,

this is it. Like, this is my calling. And it's a little. Literally, I kind of ran away and joined the circus ever since. I can remember calling, like, my dad outside in the parking lot of Gillette Stadium, thinking that he was going to tell me I was insane, but saying, like, I'm pretty sure I'm going to walk in and quit right now and just take this wrestling thing on full steam. And he was like, go ahead.

You're only young once. And I was like, well, that's not what I expected. So I'm going to go do this right now. And I haven't looked back. What was your backyard wrestling man? Because I was a fellow backyard wrestler. See, I had a bunch of different names. So, like, then it was huge Chris Jericho mark.

So I remember, like, one of my characters was just a blatant rip off of Jericho. And it was like Y2M, the highlight or something. But I had a mass one that was like White Angel. I had, like, a corporate one that was like, you know, my real name, but like my all long version, no nicknames, like my middle name and stuff. It was, man, we were in the gamut of different gimmicks and wrestlers. But at the same time, like, it definitely got me ready. And I don't want to say, I'm always going to give this as like a backyard wrestling advertisement. But like, it got me prepared for what I see now or what I deal with now as a wrestler because I had to think for so many different characters and different ways.

And now it's like my brain just kind of works like that. Like it works like, oh, well, what would the heel do in this way? What would this character do this way? And, you know, again, please be safe at home. Don't break all your parents' furniture like I did. But, man, it definitely led me down a track that I've followed for the rest of my life. Did you basically just Google wrestling schools in your area and went, oh, Spike Dudley's here? No, that was a long, long, long way around.

So, like, in the New England, Boston area, everyone knows Killikwalski. Everyone knows that Kualsi School was the place to go. At the time that I was looking to get into it, Colise School had kind of changed and it turned into the chaotic school, which was north of the city close to New Hampshire. At the time, I had gone to school in Providence and was working for the Patriots and Revolution, so I was living in Providence, which is like, New England's kind of separated from north and south of Boston.

So anything like north of the city, if you try to get through it through rush hour traffic, like forget about it. Right. So I remember reaching out to Hansen, to Warbeard, and him telling me about the chaotic school and just like, you know, trying to get there from like work and stuff like that,

it just wouldn't have worked out. So I started kind of poking my head around these, these, you know, indies that weren't probably the best and really kind of getting information and meeting people and a guy that was the assistant trainer at Spike Dudley School, Ryan Waters, saw me, brought me to Spikes, and it was just one of those things that kind of, like, this is where I was supposed to be. You know, Spike blew me away because I was a huge ECW fan, and ECW used to always come to,

it was huge in New England. It used to come to New Hampshire and Boston, so you would see it a couple times every time they would make a loop up here. So I'm like, oh, my God, Spike Dudley, this is going to be crazy. Little did I know that he's like the best technical wrestler that. no one ever knows about like no one realizes that his wrestling mind is just unbelievable um and so i had like a totally different learning experience i don't know what i was expecting from spike but i was it was like mind-blowing that's i was like oh my god spike at least like the best wrestler of all

time how did i not know this uh but also you know i'm i'm new and just i've never seen a guy that that was so versatile um and that's where i met mike bennett um jimmy preston the throw ride Fiff Bucig, who's only Lorkin now, and, you know, Vinny, that's where we all met. And it's weird because even still to this day, there's a kinship with all the people that come out of that school just because we know, like, we might not have been there when you were there, but we know the process and what it's like there. And there's a respect to it. Like, TK. is a lot younger, or came in a lot after me and Vinny.

But he fit in that group so well because he had come up in that system. of Ryan Waters and Spike in the school. And when we met him for the first time, it was one of those weird situations where you're like, this is a guy that I feel like I've known my whole life. And like, just instantly was like, all right, you're with us now, like, getting in the car. So it's one of those places that still is a great school,

still running the Lockup Academy in Fall River. And it's a brotherhood that we formed out of there that has gone to our school. And it's weird how it's like branched out through all of wrestling. You know, you text your friends and, you know, Adams here or Mike's here and this guy's over here. And it's like it's just kind of crazy, you know, when we think about how we all started in this little spot

and now we're all branched out all over the wrestling world. It's, you know, it's amazing that you, you know, give Spike Dudley that much credit for his wrestling ability because he's so good. But ECW did him no favors by replaying his highlights with Mike Awesome and, you know, he'll be thrown out of the ring or thrown through tables. You know, and that's like what I think of.

It's like, oh, throw Spike into the crowd. But like, there's a match that we watch during training that I literally, and I suggest anyone curious about Spike Dudley's wrestling abilities, go and watch it's on YouTube, Spike Dudley versus Rob Van Dam. And like, I'm a huge Rob Van Damme fan. But Spike Dudley looked like Rob Van Damme. in this match. Spike's jumping up, doing all Harkin' Ron is doing all the crazy stuff. And I'm like, Spike is unbelievable. And I'm glad that I got to learn under a guy like that that didn't,

he doesn't think that, you know, he thinks nothing of himself. But when you are under that learning tree, you're like, my God, this guy's unreal. Rob Van Damme obviously has one of the best five star or one of the best frog splashes in wrestling. But your frog splash is very good. And who, who inspired you to make your frog splash as good as it is? Well, I'm not going to lie, you know, backyard wrestling-wise, Rob Van Damme was a huge, I must have threw every object I could in someone's face hoping that they would catch it just so I could kick them as hard as seemingly possible. So, like, obviously, Rob Van Dam is where that started for me, like on the trampoline.

But as I got older and as my wrestling knowledge grew, I'm a giant, giant Eddie Guerrero and Art Bar as well. Like just watching, like, especially going down to Mexico and like watching Art Bar and Mexico and seeing the stuff that he would do down there and just the heat that they would generate down there. It's like, and then he'd bust out this beautiful frog splash. I was like, hmm. That's pretty good stuff right there.

So I remember when I first started, I tried to do like a, like I wanted to do the frog splash, but I wanted, like I was like, I got to be different. So I tried to do like this thing where I'd grab my heels, almost like the old Kenny Dykstra, like leg drop there and then do that way. And Spike didn't think that looked impactful enough. And he's like, why don't you just do the frog splash? Like, why are you trying to change up a good thing? Just do the frog splash. I was like, all right, you're right.

So, you know, it's stuck with me ever since. And it's one of those moves that, you know, you can lie on the ground and someone can jump on top of you. You know how that feels. So no matter who sees it where they're. they see it, they can understand that impact of two human beings colliding like that. After your first knee surgery, when you got up to do the frog splash for the first time, were you worried? Absolutely terrified.

My first matchback from knee surgery is the craziest thing of all time. So, again, I'm a huge wrestling fan. You know, guys like Guerrero, Jericho have inspired me so much. you watch them go from place to place and learn their different skills from these different areas. And that's what makes them this whole person. And I always felt like that's something that I wanted to do. You know, I was a tag wrestler.

Me and Mikey went to Japan. Now I got hurt and I was like, I got offered Arena Mexico before I got hurt. And they came back and they were like, well, hey, we want to bring you down in September, if you're willing to come back, you know, from injury a month early. And so here I am. I have like this goal in my mind and then someone throws Arena Mexico in my face. And I'm like, throw that out the window. I'm going to Mexico because I'm just one of those guys that I'm all for the adventure.

And again, like I got to check that off the bucket list. So next thing you know, I'm on a flight to Mexico. I speak very, now I speak better Spanish, but I think very, very, very. broken broken Spanish. I've never worked these guys before in my life. I haven't wrestled since knee surgery and these guys are calling all these dives and all this stuff like that. I'm like, well, if it's if it's not going to work now, you know, we're going to find out pretty quick. Yeah. I'm diving to the floor in Arena, Mexico. And I can remember the first time I did like my big, you know, Undertaker dive and landed and kind of landed on one foot and checked it out and was

like, oh my God, I'm a okay. Okay, I can do this. And that whole tour was such an adventure. I'm icing my leg every night because it's swelling up, but I can't find ice in this hotel. So I have to go to a local 7-Eleven where all they have is the big five-pound

block of ice. So every night I'm lying on like a slab of ice, like I'm in the morgue or something. And like it all built up to this one-on-one match between me and Roos. And as I'm walking down the steps of Arena Mexico, the brace, one of the straps on my brace breaks off. So like I'm wrestling,

like my first singles match since being back with like a broken knee brace. What an adventure that. Yeah. And, you know, like I said, I think I probably came back too early, which is why I have this new surgery now, but would I change it? Absolutely not. Mexico, it was like a resurgence of my career and really kind of put me on the map. And like I said earlier, does Madison Square, happen without Mexico. So, you know, everything happens for a reason. Well, that's where the, that's where the new look came from. Is there anything about the long hair you miss? Well, I don't get missed getting called Polly Shore.

We'll get called Polly Shore. Yeah, well, you know, I think that's racist because, you know, against people with curly hair, not everyone with curly hair is necessarily Polly Shore or Kenny G or tarotop. We're cursed with this curly hair. You don't have to just, you know, tightcast us into the small group of people. And I love headband. So whatever, Pauly Shore doesn't even have long hair anymore.

Anyway, I miss long hair just because I love, like, throwing my hair around. But as a wrestler, and this is something that I always try to teach students or guys that ask for advice, like, you're selling action and you know you're selling movement you're selling all this it's you know some people might think it's it's smoking mirrors but we have to be the guy that's that's showing you the magic trick that's distracting you while something else is happening and having long hair is just another way to kind of have extra movement you see someone get hit and their hair flies around

it just looks that much more impactful so like i can remember when i first was back without the long hair. I'm whipping my head around like my hair's still going to flow in the wind. And it was very upsetting. It was very upsetting the first time I couldn't do like the, you know, Prince Farquah hair toss. It was like a grounding moment. But, you know, it's, who knows? I could be back one day. Who knows? You never know. It might be. You know, old hair, new attitude. Could be that. Right. You know, what's old could be new again. If someone comes up to you and they're 18 years old and says, I want to do what you do. I want to be a pro wrestler.

What's the first piece of advice that you tell them? Well, I think everyone tells them to have a backup plan, which I think is a smart move. I personally wish that I probably started wrestling while I was in college. For example, like me and Mike Bennett are roughly the same age, but he had almost nine, ten years experience more than me. I didn't start until I was 23 and he started, you know, when he was in the womb. So it's like it's one of those things where I would suggest getting involved early, but at the same time I would always have that backup plan, always, you know, go to school, have an opportunity because whether it doesn't work out or it does,

if you're more valuable in different aspects of the wrestling business, that just makes you more valuable, period. So, and you can't bump forever. So like if you can do something, you know, a lot of our guys at the school can do video production. It seems like every kid these days is awesome at that. And I'm like, that's a great skill to have for wrestling. Yeah. But, you know, to always have that kind of something to fall back on because God forbid you get hurt, X, Y, Z.

But, you know, you have to go to a good school with a guy running it who's got some sort of name value or at least has experience, has trained other people. I can't tell you how many people you see come to seminars or you see come to visit the school and they say they've been trained and they say, oh, I got trained by this guy. And, you know, not that I know everyone, but maybe if I haven't heard of them and then all a sudden they're in there and you're like, oh, we kind of have to start back at the basics. And that's fine for me, but I feel bad for that person that might have wasted all their time going to someone that, you know, other people might not have heard of. I always suggest if there's a school that has a connection to a promotion, that's an easy,

you know, I was a student here, now I'm wrestling here. That's an easy way to get your foot in the door. We don't really have that problem too much in New England. There's almost too many good schools. There's chaotic. There's the lockup where I went to with Spike Dudley. There's my school in Rhode Island. So there's plenty of places to go and plenty of guys with fantastic backgrounds and reps that will lead

you in the right direction. So do your research, you know, Travis, Flip Gordon there. I can remember, I can remember like day two of him being at chaotic. And I was like, how did you end up here from Montana? And he's like, I just googled wrestling schools. Well, at least you did your, you did, you did a good amount of research because you ended up at the right one. So, you know, do your research. And maybe you'll drive yourself across country like crazy boy flip. His story always blows me away. It's awesome. It's awesome. I'm begging him to take me back to his hometown because I've never,

Montana's like one of the only states I haven't been to and it's just beautiful. Can I see where Flip Gordon came from? Because like I said, I've known that kids since basically he started wrestling. And man, sometimes he does or says things that just blow my mind. So I'm like, I have to see where you came from. He told me he wants to buy a farm. And I'm like, what? It makes perfect sense.

Every time he's home, he sends me a picture of his backyard that has like a goat or like some sort of crazy life just strolling through it. I love the name of your signature moves. Climax, just the tip. Amazing. Were there some that didn't make the cut that were maybe a little too risque? Yeah. See, like I think it was always the best when. it could ride that line.

And I can remember one, and I feel like I'm name dropping now, but like Tomaso Champa's wedding, he had this guy from Arch Kincaid, who is a guy from, if people from New England, they know him from the local scene. And Arch Kincaid is just one of those characters that doesn't really care who's around. He's just going to detox loud.

Everyone can hear him. So here's all of Tomaso's family. And Arch Kincaid wants to break down why I named my finishing move the climax and how great it is, that I'm like, can we just, can we just pump it down a little bit right now? I don't think Tomas's grandma needs to hear why this moves called the climax. But Just the Tip came from, from Colt Cabano.

I have to give him all the credit there. He came up with Just the Tip, and he asked if, because he wanted to say, just the tip of the knee. It's a wedding crasher's joke is where it really began. Of course. And so, like, I was like, absolutely. In fact, the name of the move now is just the tip. So you thank you.

You've named it. I appreciate it. So there wasn't like, you know, I'm just, we'd be spitballing off the top of my head here. You didn't have something else like, I don't know, the pump and dump or the night stand or something. Yeah, I haven't done too many, like the sexual taven gimmick, which is out, it's floating around because it's only happened a couple of times.

I haven't really truly been able to wrestle as that gimmick. the gimmick that I was doing when I was hurt last time and trying to stay on shows and stay relevant. So beyond wrestling, thank you. Let me do sexual taven a couple times there. I'm sure if I was to wrestle under that name more, if you thought the climax in just the tip, that's me like living in a PG world because hoopla, our first thing that we did in, in a ring of honor was going to have a lot more risque stuff until Sinclair broadcasting, saw the very first segment and said,

you guys got to relax. You guys got to relax. The very first segment, I pulled a belt out of my pants and it kind of dangles in front of me. What was is that, you know, I found that to be very funny. But sensations around the country

thought that that was a little absurd, and so they blurred it. But when you saw it blurred out, it looked like it was just me blurred all the way down to my knees. So I need to send a thank you, you know, a question. it to all those stations. I think in like the Bible Belt in the Midwest, I wanted to blur it out

because you guys made me look like an absolute champ. But after that, we were told we had to calm down. So I'm sure that if the situation was a little bit different, those names might have got even a little more risque. I thought your work with Purple Rain was really brilliant. I thought that you, you know, claiming yourself as the real world champion was awesome. Now, what, hoops did you have to jump through or what approval did you have to get to basically be walking around with a belt that you know you hadn't really won um so like that's the thing that i have to always give like ring of honor the credit for is they listen and they're so open to ideas and like what ended up happened was like this thing just kind of all organically happens on

its own. So Dalton's hurt. He's supposed to defend the title against me in basically my hometown in Massachusetts. I have like my family in the front row. Unfortunately, he's hurt. He can't wrestle that night. I start saying that Dalton should have forfeited the title to me and I'm the real world champion. Now after that, since I started saying that just to put a little, you know, a little more feel to the fire, I pin the world champion in the match that Jay Lethal end up ends up winning the belt and I pin them for like a 10 count. The ref doesn't see it. Now I'm having this like legit gripe.

But at the same time, I also go to Mexico for like a two-month tour. And I have nothing to do in my hotel room, but think about everything that I want to do. And so I've pinned the champ. I'm the champ. Like I'm the champ. And so I was like,

I'm coming back as the Ring of Honor World Champion, but I can't just say it. I need the belt. And so we have the belts made. the people that are are um i don't know are are very pay a lot of close attention will realize that that belt is not the same belt that ends up getting smashed later uh when i showed up back from mexico and i got the actual belt it was more of like a pinkish and i was like it's supposed to be purple all my stuff is purple so uh thank god there was another leather maker that got it

done correctly the way I wanted it to go. But man, I just saw pictures of it recently. And like the Ring of Water World title, I think, is a great looking belt. And as a guy that has loved wrestling belts and wrestling titles, whatever you want to say. God. Forever. I always thought the Ring of Honor one. But man, with that purple background, that title looks pretty sweet.

I don't think anyone touches it. I just think that it's amazing that Ring of Honor was like, yeah, we'll make you your own belt. I think that that shows that they, you know, obviously were really invested in this gimmick. Yeah, I mean, and like they had watched me put so much work into things that I had done with the kingdom for so long. And, you know, there were times where maybe we weren't people, you know, there were so many things going on. We kind of like out of sight out of mind a little bit. And I would be like, no, absolutely not. Instead, I'm going to rent a van.

I'm going to get a megaphone. I'm going to stand outside and act like I'm protesting the show. And so, like, I think they constantly saw me doing stuff like that, but they were like, if we go along with it, he has the ideas, or he has at least the motivations to make this work by hook or crook. And, you know, it's another reason why I stay loyal to them and probably always will. I mean, but you can't say that in wrestling, but I hope so.

There's no, there's nothing final. There's nothing perfect. Well, I know you're a wrestling historian. Wrestling Mark, right? Will you be watching Mania this weekend? I feel like I almost have to watch it just because it's going to be so weird, right?

It's going to be just so different. Unfortunately, and not to, I don't know, seem like I'm bragging. I haven't kept up with too much of this stuff, but then now that I have nothing by free time on my hand, I feel like I've caught up with everyone's stuff. I mean, I don't think there's ever been a WrestleMania I haven't seen.

I don't think there's been many big. shows that I haven't seen. So I'm sure I'll find, since I have, you know, such a busy schedule these days, I'm sure I'll find some time to squeeze it in. I appreciate you squeezing this chat in and your crazy busy schedule that you have. God, I barely, right after this, I have to sit on the couch, think about doing some stretching, probably not do it for another hour. You know, it's going to be, I don't know how I'm going to get any of the stuff done. Well, you got to drink some seltzer water, too. I'm out. I'm all out of a lot of, no. See, now it's another journey to the fridge.

I don't know if I'm going to have time to do that. It's a busy day. The toughest thing about this quarantine is the unknown of when it's going to end. Yeah. Or like you wake up and you're like, well, if I'm just staying inside all day today, why don't I just do all those things that I'm supposed to do today tomorrow? And then it's just this endless cycle. The other day I wasn't sure what day it was.

I was like, oh, it is. I think I even tweeted out because I probably should have plugged it by now, but I also do a podcast called Take a Bump. I'm pretty sure on Monday, I was like, make sure you get your questions in for tomorrow. I was a day off. Not just by complete accident, I did not realize that it was only Monday and not Tuesday.

I don't know, man. It's making all of us lose our minds. So I've been waking up every day and writing down everything that I had to do that day. Like from the most ridiculous small things like call my mom, like send this email. So that at the end of the day, I can go, look at this list.

I did like 17 things today. Yeah, and I put like a little treat at the end. I'm like, if you get all this stuff done, you can have one bowl of cereal. All right? Well, how about that? You can not diet and have a little bit of cereal and eat by yourself in the darkness,

like a real, like a real sad boy. What's the go-to cereal, though? Oh, fruity pebbles all day. I'm a fruit. Wow. Yeah. Pebbles guy forever. And I just saw that they added, like, you can do fruity pebbles with marshmallows.

So lucky charm, fruity pebbles. I bought it, tried it out. I don't know. I think I would stick with the original if I was having to do it. I said I had one cereal box that I could get on this weeks of quarantine or this week of shopping, for quarantine, I should say. And I think I made the wrong decision. But thankfully, I didn't just go crazy and buy every box on the shelf like I wanted to because

it's like, well, if no one's going to see me for a month, why don't I just like cultivate as much mass as humanly possible via cereal that I've missed for my entire life? Well, I appreciate your time. This has been great. And I don't want to keep you from your seltzer water and your cereal. Don't do it. It's much a pleasure talking to you, Matt. I really appreciate the time.

Hey, no, thank you, man. I'm glad that you're safe, and I hope everyone out there watching this, please stay safe. Hopefully this ends sooner than later, and we can have this conversation, face-to-face person to person next time. Well, as soon as we get the opportunity,

I'm going to make this happen and we'll do it in person. It's a deal. Another virtual interview in the books. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for powering through until the very end. Sorry again about the technical glitches. I have three more interviews planned this week, so rest assured. I will have this all sorted out by then.

Take a screenshot right now. Tag me, tag Matt. Let us know what you thought about this interview. Or heck, let us know what you hated about this interview. That's fine, too. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. He's at the Matt Taven on Instagram, at Matt Taven on Twitter. What a fun chat.

What a good dude. I look forward to being able to do this one in person. In fact, all these virtual interviews that I'm doing, I plan to do an in-person version when life returns back to normal. I'm hoping that soon. And when that does happen, the floodgates will open back up, and we'll do as many of these in person as we possibly can. A lot of change going on in the world, a lot of uncertainty.

But as Albert Einstein famously said, the world as we have created, it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking. It's all it takes. Change of mindset. Appreciate you hanging out for this one. We will see you soon. Also, woo!

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