Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mickie James: Hall Of Fame Induction, Trish Stratus, Nick Aldis, WWE Return, Hardcore Country

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Mickie James (@MickieJames) is a professional wrestler and TNA Hall of Famer. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Nashville, TN to discuss her recent Hall Of Fame induction at Bound For Glory, if one more match is possible, wrestling most of her career under her real name, her rivalry with Trish Stratus and the infamous spot during their WrestleMania 22 match, receiving her belongings in a trash bag after being released, if her husband Nick Aldis could return to the ring, and more!Please support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV2025 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount   NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Flee! It's so good to see you. It's so good to see you too. Congratulations. Thank you. Hall of Famer. Crazy. Look, we already knew you were a Hall of Famer, but now it's official.

It's, yeah, it is official. It's crazy. It's crazy to even say Hall of Famer. How does it feel? I got to change it in my bio. Yeah. It feels amazing. I think it feels, it's like, I'm super humbled.

And I think, you know, you spend your whole career being trying to be humble and all that other stuff. one night you can kind of like pat yourself on the back but it's super uncomfortable to do it you know but still it's it's always incredible i think when um you're recognized for your contributions um to the company or to any business and um for tNA to do that for me i was incredibly honored you know well for so long people looked at the knockhouse division in tna and they went nobody has women's wrestling like tna yeah you were a huge part of that thank you I feel like TNA has always been one to give the knockouts a chance.

Like they really did believe in the women and recognize that the ratings, they were getting better ratings and they were doing all these things. And also I think back to like even the first time I was there with Jeff and to be able to do all these first time ever like the first ever woman to do the clockwork orange house a fun match. And we beat the crap out of each other. But that was unheard of at the time, you know. It was just, it's been wild. It's wild to me. You were on the very first TNA show. Yeah.

So take me back to that very first show 23 years ago, 2002. Mm. You know, I think for me at the time, I was so young and still new in the business, but I was starting to get really good, you know, and as far as there weren't as many women training to be wrestlers. So as far as female wrestlers that were up and coming, I was. being called like one of the better ones, you know? And so, but I still had so much to learn. You like think back and I was like, God, I was so green. I had no idea what I was doing and or even could even fathom at the time like an opportunity like that what it was going to do for me now or where we are now, you know?

And that was just kind of the first step of like that journey. But I just was excited to get an opportunity to be seen, you know? And his lingerie battle, well, I was like, sure. And I could go out there and it's going to be on pay-per-view and it's this young upstart company and everybody's excited about it because, you know, especially as an independent performer and you're making nothing and just like that exposure, what that could do for you. But also the opportunity to have like another place, you know, another place hopefully for us to all go and grow. And you could already feel in the building that there was so much excitement and love behind it. So yeah, it was crazy. But I had no idea what I was doing. It's just kind of crazy to think back that your debut in TNA was a lingerie battle royal. Crazy.

But I was tell of the times, though. Right. It speaks to the time. I mean, the company was called TNA. Yes, total nonstop action. It was implied. Of course. Yes.

I mean, we had ladies dancing in cages. One of my dear friends still to this day, Jamie Pop, Sharo. She was one of the cage dancers, but also wrestled, you know, later. But, yeah. So who was Alexis Lurie? I had no idea who she was. I had no idea who she was at the time. I was just trying to be everything I thought of pro,

the most, you know, awesomest female wrestler at the time could be. I mean, I went through so many phases of like I have, which I still have these like LOD shoulder pads that I was doing with my kick pads and all this. And then for that I was just trying to be, it was lingerie.

I was like, okay, what can I wear cute and lingerie sexy, but also wrestle. But I want to be serious wrestling. out there and show that I can be a real wrestler. Yeah, I didn't know who I was. I was trying to figure that out.

But isn't that such an interesting thing that you're trying to figure out who you are? And then it comes right back around to your Mickey James, your actual name. And even getting that opportunity to use my real name was a whole, you know, that's a whole other story. And of when I actually debuted in WWE. Because I was Alexis Lurie.

I got to go there and I'd, did the gathering. The gathering was another whole thing. That had to be a goth character. I had to like look it up. I bought forever. Like, what was that hot topic at the time? Sure. Out. Out of every fishnet they had. Every skirt, t-shirt. I was like, I'll wet my hair, I guess. I don't know what is goth. It wasn't my jam, but it worked. It worked. Yeah. You were just trying to, you were trying to fit in, right? This is a faction with Raven. You're trying to. And what an opportunity for me to be able, the fact that, you know, he after that laundry battle royal i didn't hear from tna or anything for a while and then it was raven when he was working with c m punk at ring of honor and they were doing like this dog collar

match or like they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff and then he saw me i guess i was i was i wrestling becky bayliss maybe or you know with special k and then there was all these alice in danger um he saw me that night and he's like hey you can really go for a girl like for a girl you're pretty good which I always hate it. I always hate it. Oh, you're pretty good for a girl. I was like, that is a stigma I'm going to change. That was early on because I always got that compliment.

And I know it was meant to be a wonderful thing. And it was meant with love. But I took it as a backhanded compliment because I didn't want to be good for a girl. I wanted to be great, period. I want it to be as good, if not better than the boys. Because that's who I was training with. And so they were who I can say. my competition because there wasn't a lot of females out there to compare myself to,

except for the ones that were already where I wanted to be. You know? So anyway, I was like, thanks, you know. But he was, it was his. He's like, do you think you could do a goth? I'm thinking of this idea with TNA. And I was like, TNA. I was excited again.

And yeah, he's like, do you think you could do a goth character or would you be interested? And I was like, oh, my God, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Say yes to everything, right? Say yes to everything. Unless in your gut and your heart, if it immediately goes, ooh, if it does that, then it's a no.

It's never going to work. But for that, I mean, I had, but I was like, oh, I can't believe. And then the opportunity to sit and listen to him, put together these matches and why these in-betweenes, because I was still trying to, that light bulb hadn't even began to click yet. I'm just trying to be great at wrestling, you know.

But to sit there and listen to him, put these matches together and how they would do it and why they would do it and how they would, do all these like little magical parts of it, not to expose too much, but it just blew my mind. And I was able to sit underneath there and learn from him and learned from Julio, who was already my brother from MCW, because that's where, you know, I really started to break out from. And then punk, and that's where I really, you know, from Ring of Honor and then to get to work alongside punk, you know, and it's just, it was really cool. It was so, so cool. But anyway, so fast forward back to

the Mickey James story. Lots of stories. So many stories. We won't tell them all. This is why we love you. We won't tell them all. The Mickey James, how Mickey James came about was from OVW. I was Alexis Lurie and OVW. And that kind of said.

I just love the name Alexis. And Lurie is my legit middle name. So that's how that name came about. But I'm about to debut in this crazy stalker character. and Vince is like, what's, what's her name? Alexis Lurie, I don't like that name. I don't like that name. Sounds like, it sounds like a stripper name.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess it does, doesn't it? I don't know. Yeah, okay. I was like, oh, and he's like, well, got anything else? What else do you want to, got any other names? And I'm like, I don't know. I was like, uh, Mickey James. And I love it.

Love it. I didn't say, oh, it's my real name. Until I was like, oh, okay. great. It's my, okay. I was like, so I was able, and probably one of the last few people to actually be able to use their real name, I was able to use my real name. Wow. Crazy.

And how grateful I am for that. So the original pitch for the stalker gimmick was you and Lita, right? That's how I wrote it. And I wrote it, well, when I wrote this, I won't say I wrote this whole story. Obviously, there was so many people, the writers and Trish, obviously. And the original pitch that I had wrote for this character, this crazy kind of super fan was for Lita. And because I had, you know, I was friends with Lita.

And I felt like she was really a mentor to me in a lot of ways. Like when I was doing the independence and up and coming, I worked in the Carolinas a lot, that whole Mid-Atlantic area that's kind of like was my home base almost. And then started to go more northeast. But if she was ever at a show or she was. ever close. She would watch these and she would give me advice and like that advice still reigns true today. And she just helped me a lot. And I think she looked out for me and I think

she fought for me even in getting my job. You know, I think she always like was really, really great to me. And so I felt comfortable asking her if I could pick because I was like, I have an idea for this kind of wild character. It's crazy. It's different. And I asked her if it was okay if I pitched it with her in mind because you can't, you can't just go out there willy-nilly pitching like storylines for, you know, anyone. Yeah. Yeah. Hey Rock. Like, I'm going to come in and, you know,

do this thing. It's going to be great. Right. But so I asked, and she was like, oh, of course. You know, so then I wrote it and I sat down and I wrote like 18 weeks of TV of like this character and how she's going to be like. She's super fan. She's so excited to be there. She grew up, you know, all she wanted to do was be a wrestler because of her idol and this. And I came up with it because we have so many, you think of fandom as a whole. I think wrestling has some of the most passionate fans out of any sport in the world, in my opinion.

And but you also hear of all these crazy stories. And it was like that movie single white female was out. And then you think of Selena and like these kind of stories of like how these fans can get so overzealous and like just become problematic. Yeah. You know? And, but in their mind, they're not doing anything wrong. They're just trying to show love, you know? So I was like, that's, you know, I think I can do that in my range.

And I think I was taking acting classes in OVW and trying to do all that stuff too on the side to just kind of get my range down. And anyway, yeah. So pitched it with Amy. And then they loved it. And they really liked the idea. And I think we had TV and like, because when we were in OVW, we'd travel around. I think they had TV in Cincinnati or something like that. And I'm sitting back there and Michael goes, hey, we saw Michael Hayes, P.S.

Hey, we read that idea you had. And he's like, it was pretty good. And I was like, really? Okay, great. He's like, yeah. He goes, Vince loved it. And I was like, okay, great. He's like, yeah, you should go, you should go tell him that you wrote it and that church.

And, you know, nobody can play it like you. And, you know, I was like, okay. So I. And then even throughout the day as, you know, you're sitting there walking around on eggshells, trying to be seen, but also unseen. He, every time he's like, did you talk to him yet? I'm like, no. Like, just, what, talk to Vince?

Like, hey, hi, Vince. So I literally waited outside of his office after the show. And I was like, I'm going to wait outside his office. That was the advice I got. Like, I just wait outside his office after the show. And I felt like I was sitting there for an eternity for him to come back. And, yeah. And I did just that.

I walked into, like, I was like, oh, Vince, Do you have a moment? I can like to chat with you. And he had no clue who I was or what I was doing. I walk in. And I was like, I did exactly what Michael told me to do. I said, Vince, I, Mickey James from OVW, and I heard you read my story, my storyline idea. And I heard you really liked it.

And I just want you to know that I wrote her. I know her. She is me. And there's no one that can play that character like me. And I could just, the confidence that came out of my mouth in that moment, I don't know if it translated the way I thought, but like I felt like it was so confident, but it was so fake. Like I was dying on the inside. I was like, I can't, I'm sweating. My palms are sweating. My knees are shaken. It was, he's an intimidating man, right? Like, especially for me who was just like, this man has

the power to give me my dreams or not. Yeah. You know? Um, yeah. And he goes, okay. Takes a lot of balls, kid and I was like, thanks. Thank you. I was like, okay, well, that was it. And I was like, I hope you have a great night. Thanks so much. And then I walked out and I wanted to throw up. And, yeah.

And then that was that. And then I didn't hear anything back for like six months. And I was like, oh, God, what did I do? Damn it, Michael. I ruined it. I'm fired. I'm so fired. Yeah.

And then they brought me in and they were like, hey, we're going to do that character. we want to do that character. And I was like, okay, cool. He was like, yeah, but we're going to do it with Trish. And I was like, I didn't know Trish. I met her, and she was always pleasant. She was always amazing backstage during these tryouts and during any of the time in my time of trying out. And then also being in OVW for like two and a half years, never really had a full conversation with her.

And, yeah, the way she embraced it and embraced me and were still. best of friends every day. Like she was the first person to FaceTime me after getting, because she was getting her own Hall of Fame. We joke, I'm like, it was like your 20th Hall of Fame award. Get it. I tried to say too. And she's like, actually, it's a little more, but it's okay.

I was like, all right, right, I got to add a zero. I feel like it's just a matter of time before you're in the WWE Hall of Fame. I hope one day. I mean, it's, you know, someone would say I'm too young to be in the Hall of Fame. Ooh, well, you are still an active wrestler. Technically. Yes. I've never lost.

the championship. Yeah, I had to vacate it. And then, yeah, I never officially retired. No one ever actually ended the last rodeo. There it is. But when you look at your career, this is the career of a Hall of Favor. There's no question. So great. I mean, to be honest with you, I could. There's always that part inside of you. There's, oh, you could do one more. It's the feeling and the love that you get out there. There's no feeling. Could you do one more? Hell yeah. Okay. I could do 10 more. No. But, you know, it's also with the career that I've been so blessed to have and the moments that I've been able to have and the people that I've been able to work with, I could retire tomorrow and be a happy woman, right? Like I don't have anything else, I think, to prove in the wrestling business. But I also love it. And there's nothing like it. And I've done, you know, I've been able to act in films. I've been able to do music and perform on stages and alongside mega names and stuff. like that, which is also incredible, but there's nothing like performing in front of a live wrestling audience when they are so, especially when they're so invested in your story, in that

story. And there are a lot, because you, it's the emotion is that's what we live for. That's, that's the art of this dance that we do. You joke that you're too young to be in the Hall of Fame. And like you have, you've aged like 14 minutes in the last 25 years, which is amazing. I thought you were going to say in the last 20 minutes. But like, I think you solidified your Hall of Fame career after the first WWE run. Like it's what you did in TNA, what you did in WWE. And I feel like, no? I don't think.

After the next TNA run, what do you think? I think what I was able to accomplish with the last rodeo solidified, it validated me, it vindicated me. My first WWE run, I was able to have some amazing moments. but I was also, I think it was cut short. I think I had a lot more to do in WWE and the timing and my own life and professionally and personally. I needed to go away, I think. So it was unfortunate, but I think my first tenure was cut really, really short.

And especially when I look at opportunities, because we all make mistakes and we all live and learn. I think about comparatively, like mistakes other people. perhaps we're making and when you try to compare it. And that's where I had to like take my own ego and stop comparing because you can't compare careers. You can't compare anything because we're all individuals right. So I was not satisfied. I would have been very unhappy. I think I would have been disgruntled and I was would have hated the business if I would have ended my career after my first run. You know, I would have been all that work, all that dedication, everything, you know, to really, it would have been unfulfilled. And then I would have had a chip on my.

my shoulder because when I left I had a chip on my shoulder because I felt like they didn't have to fire me, you know. But that's, you know, we live and learn. I was also young and making mistakes as we all do. Do you feel fulfilled now? I feel so fulfilled now. I feel so fulfilled. Not only that, it was, if I think about that now, and that was that me in the moment. So I'm speaking me in the moment, 27, 30 year old Mickey James, you know, if I hadn't even, even, you have left, not only like part of healing, my healing journey and all that stuff, but I would have never met my husband. I would never have my beautiful son. And when I left WW the first time, and I was in this reset trying to refine myself and redefine myself. And then I meet Nick.

And, you know, that story and that chapter opens. And then obviously, hardcore country is born in that same. So that is all. And then I wouldn't be here today or sitting in front of you as a Whole Famer. This episode is brought to you by Hymns. Tired at trying to figure out what actually works for hair loss? Through Hymns, you get access to clear solutions, expert guidance, and an online process that takes the confusion out of care. Hymns offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with

ingredients that work, including chews, oral medication, serums, and sprays. Doctor-trusted and clinically proven ingredients like Phanastoride and monocidil can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself. Hymns brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access, the personalized treatment plans that put your goals first. No hidden fees, no surprise costs, just real personalized care on your schedule. For simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ed, weight loss, and more, visit Hymns.com slash insight. That's Hymns.com.

slash insight for your free online visit. Hymns.com slash insight. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monocidal and finasteride. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effective mis or quality.

Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Factor. There's a lot going on in the fall. It's a bit of a reset, right? Back to school, busier routines, shorter days, and finding time to cook.

can be tough. And that's why I love Factor. Their chef-prepared, dietitian-approved meals, make it easy to stay on track and enjoy something comforting and delicious, no matter how hectic the season gets. You can choose from a wider selection of weekly meal options, including premium seafood choices like salmon and shrimp at no extra cost. On the menu this week, I am pumped for garlic rosemary chicken breast. Oh, yeah.

Hot roasted, shredded beef and mash, and Parmesan and sun-dried tomato chicken penny. Oh, yeah. From more choices to better nutrition, that's why 97% of customers say that Factor helped them live a healthier life. Feel the difference no matter your routine. I use this and you should too. It's so easy when I'm on the road recording episodes like this one.

Eat Smart at FactorMeals.com slash Insight 50 off and use the code. Insight 50 off to get 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for one year. That's code Insight 50 off at factormeals.com for 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for a year. Get delicious, ready to eat meals delivered with Factor. Offer only for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renew subscription purchase. Who's hardcore country for people who might not be familiar? Hardcore country is me. I think it's, you know, that's why that was the opportunity finally, like, just step authentically.

I didn't have to be anything else but me. And that's who I'm most comfortable out there being. And obviously the volume's turned all the way up. And she's not as vulnerable. Maybe sometimes, you know, as me personally. But, ah, man, she's the girl next door. She's the girl with a dream, you know. and willing to put in the work.

Is it work harder, you know, for her opportunities? And sometimes doesn't always get the credit that she deserves and she's going to, she's not going to stop and she's not going to quit. Yeah, she's everybody. Pretty great theme song, too. Hot-cold country. Do you know who that is? Who is it?

Serge Salinas. Is this like... Dixie Carter's husband, Serge Salinas. Thank you, Serge. Thank you, Dale Oliver, who I did. God, there's a thousand thank yous in that speech I didn't get to. That is, we all sat down together and created, Dale and I, you know, wrote the song, create the song. And that is Serge, hollering, hardcore country. I thought it was so interesting in your Hall of Fame speech that you thank the haters.

Got to. Why was that important to you? I think because, you know, I think a lot of people let the haters get to them. Yeah. And I think, you know, we talk about a lot about social media and how it can affect you. And I think that's a way that I've always been able to remember that if you don't have haters, then, you know, people want to hate on people's, other people's successes, especially when they are too fearful or have made excuses not to go after their own dreams, right? or have not been held themselves accountable for their own screw-ups. Like there's so many levels to it.

But. Well, they're just comfortable. That's a lot of it. Brother Kompf, you know. I heard a great quote that I will never forget. It's that people aren't afraid of the unknown. They are afraid of the loss of the known. And it's like you're afraid of like leaving this because you know this.

Yeah. And people are also afraid to fail. Yeah. They're so afraid. If I can't tell you how many times I've failed. You know? And you just got to fail forward. You got to fail forward.

Right. If you didn't fail, you wouldn't be where you're at right now. They're not, it's not failure. It's less, it's learning. Right. You know. It's not win or lose. It's a winner learned.

Yeah. Totally. And I think, I mean, those are hard lessons to learn, especially, you know, it's a lot easier to say that to me now than it was to say that to me at 20. And I think it's like as you get older, you learn to separate your ego, uh, from things. Because you have to. because otherwise their pride gets in the way of so many things and it has for me. I'm guilty of it as anybody, but, you know, I had to acknowledge the haters because I think that they were a catalyst in my success.

Because if nothing else, I am very competitive. And I've been told no, and I've had all these, you know, mountains that felt like I've had to climb in my life. and those people telling, like those haters, those people telling me I couldn't have a thing that I desired gave me so much fuel because I love to prove people wrong. How do you not take what the haters are saying and let it get to you? I won't say you don't let it get to you. I mean, I think, I mean, there's been moments, obviously, some things say, you know, people say that it kind of hits close to home and, you know, check, you know, yourself or even your accountability with that situation, whatever. However, I have, you know, I have. You have to remember that a lot of times haters are coming from a different place, you know, and I think it's like a fear base or like if they're scared to go, like I said, scared to go after their own dreams or jealousy. It comes from a place that is really more about them than it is

about you, you know, and that's kind of how I've separated. And also, I prayed for this. I prayed for the fame. I prayed for the glory. I paid for the accolades. And with that, the other side comes too. And you have to know that. So if you want this, you have to know that that's going to, the light doesn't come without the dark. And you have to be able to embrace them both, right? Is it difficult when that's then worked into a storyline? Like you got, you have the storyline with Michelle McCool and Piggins where it's like, it's bullying and it's haters and now it's magnified on TV every week. Yeah. Yeah. And especially at a time in my career where I felt like I was being kind of punished on a professional level. And, you know, so I wasn't sure how much of that was like,

does the company truly think this about me? Is someone saying this like in creative and they just think it's funny and let's see how this plays out on TV? Or is this just a storyline? And like, I think if nothing else, that's where I had to put my ego aside. And I was like, you know what? I don't care what I'm going to do because this is powerful. And we've all been bullied and there's been moments. And there's just a story right now of this little girl, Sophia in middle school, like then the town over from where we live right now who just committed suicide over bullying.

She's 11 years old. Right? So you think about that. And you think about the cases of suicide. and all these things of like people really getting bullied. And I think it was really coming to light at that time of because social media was becoming a thing. So it was really starting to come a light how this can affect people, especially affect

people who weren't even, weren't mentally capable of deciphering like young children. You know, you can't. But no one was looking at you on WWETV at that time. Going, she's fat. Yeah. I was a little thicker, I will say. You were an incredible shape. Thank you.

And maybe it was the cargoes. I thought the cargos looked so cute. I was like, was it? Maybe it was a whiskey. I don't know. Anyway. Probably number two. Whiskey girl?

Not anymore. I just love that song. Toby Keith. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But she, you know, so that was different. Michelle McCool credits you, though, for putting her over. Absolutely.

Yes. Absolutely. I think, well, it took all of us because for them, too, they had to be the bad guys in that situation and be okay being the bad guys, which I think a lot of people still struggle with because, you know, as, as performers, you're like trying to be loved and trying to be hated, to be a heel. But you have to be okay being hated, you know? But also for them to be able to go out there, her and Layla both and do all of these things

and then have to take on all the hate from the fans for doing these hateful things, you know, and really embrace it. it was a lot. And I think we all three of it, I think we all struggled with it doing it in the moment. And I was like, no,

what we're going to do is we're going to go out there and we're going to make it gold. And we're going to make it better than they ever expect it. And it did. And not only did it like really land in the hearts of a lot of people, I have people that still come,

you know, come to me about that whole story and how much it helped them. And I'm sure Michelle and Layla have the same. But it's, it helped. launch Lake Cool. Do you know, it really, they, I think they were looking for something to turn them into monster heels because there wasn't really a strong, strong heel on that, especially on SmackDown

or whatever in the female division. And they wanted to really get some hot steam behind them. And they chose me to do that. And I should be honored. I should be honored that they believed in me enough to be able to help in that story. You know, so there's a lot of conflicting things on there. What was the hardest part about that? Because they're like pouring stuff on you and like, you know, there's food all over your, was that difficult? Oh, yeah. I think the hardest part for me was, for me, was because I was so insecure at that moment, was trying to figure out whether this was, if this was a real thing of how the company felt about me or if it wasn't. Or if this was just for show.

but also tapping into other hurts and pains, you know, like that's what I used in there to come up, you know, to cry and to do all these things. But also took it as a challenge because I was like, I'm really going to step into this role and just test my acting skills to the best. I've done the crazy. Now, this sympathetic character of this massive vulnerability to show that on television and to really dive into that type of emotion and really pull off of, real feelings to do that. So it was a challenge. Who would you say is your biggest rival? Of all time?

Yeah. Oh, Trish. For sure. Every day, all day. Even still. And I think about, you know, when we, we've not had really a chance to do a whole bunch of, but even like that rumble moment or like all that where we had a chance and the people just erupted.

And I think that that says it all. That says it all. And that was such a validation that what we did then. still holds true and still connects today. You and Trish stole the show at WrestleMania 22. Thank you. And you get to win and become women's champion for the first time. Surreal.

So it's like not only you're getting this WrestleMania match with Trish, on top of that, you're getting the championship. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. It was surreal. I always say if I could take my emotion that night and like bottle it up, I'd be so rich.

If you could put that emotion into one word, what is it? Oh, God. I don't have a word. I don't think there is a word to like even begin to explain. I think when you think about the Knox and everybody's journey is different of like what it took to get to that moment. And my own life, in my own career and everything, all the things that it took to just finally get. and the thing that you, you know, I had envisioned it and prayed for it and all the things of, like, being women's champion. And then it came to come to that and being even better than what you ever could anticipate to be at WrestleMania.

You know, like all, it was like all these gifts came at one time. I'm like, you know, it was, it was unbelievable. It was, like, I still get chill bumps now. So far removed from it. I still can get chill bumps. I still can tap into like how much love and emotion and just pure raw, like, gratitude was in that whole all of it.

I was so lost in it. You can see it before the match even starts. Yeah. When you go out there and you're posing, you can just see, you're just like beaming. I am in it. I am like I'm lost.

I lost myself that night. Like I was just, I was like out of body experience sometimes. I think back and I was like, who is this crazy woman? I was so, I was committed. There's a moment in that

WrestleMania match with Trish, where you do a, a certain gesture. Yes. What was the reaction to this gesture? It was not good. I mean, the people loved it.

The people loved it. The reaction on camera, the people, in my opinion, I made the right choice, in my humble opinion. That crazy. I did not,

not what I expected? So what went into this? So I had asked, Steve Kern, Steve Kern was our agent as well, you know, fit always I'd ask Steve Kern

Can I lick my finger? Because we had already had We're going to do the crotch grab spot We're going to do it We're going to ha ha ha You know so we knew we were going to do The Vaggrab, right? The Vaj Grab.

You think about the whole story I have pretended to be Trish I have accused her boyfriend of terrible crimes You know I have kids kidnapped Ashley Massaro. I have stalked her in the shower, her home. I have done many things. Tried to kiss her numerous occasions, you know, access denied. So here we're at WrestleMania,

and I'm like, all the things that we've done to lead to this. And they want this moment, you know, I'm like, okay, okay. I felt like that was what was, that's what anybody would have done in that moment, in the moment, after all that, Finally, finally you got, I don't know, I'm not going to go there. It's just a little crass. That's a little too crass, even for me. But I also thought, you know, so I had asked if I could lick my finger. Clearly, that's not what I did.

It's not what I did. He was like, well, lick your finger. Like, I was like, well, yeah, I mean, I'm grabbing, like, wouldn't I? I've been trying to get my hands on her, on all, you know, forever. Like, this would be my. my dreams come true, right? And he was like, oh, let me out. I will see.

So he's like, I went away and he comes back and he goes, yeah, okay. I think he goes like, whatever. Sorry, Steve Kern. And yeah, so that's not what I did. And I did this. Actually, I think it was more like this. It was a double. So they definitely, so they made sure they saw it.

Because my hands aren't big enough, obviously, you know, so I did both. Dude, and I thought I was, in my heart and in my soul, I honestly believed I was going to walk back through that curtain. And I had never received a high five. I'd seen other women get high fives from Vince and thumbs up and all these things. I got thumbs up before. I got a few thumbs up. I thought I was going to get the biggest hug of a lifetime and fist bumps, you know, something, maybe even a hoist on a shoulder out the door or something for being so brilliant. It's not what happened at all.

Go back through the curtain and Vince is pissed. Pissed. He's like, that was crass. Do you know what we're going to have to do? How much money is going to cost to edit that and to pull it from every, like, we're publicly traded company. What are you thinking? And I was like, so if you can imagine the high of a lifetime being like,

and then walking through and they just shanked right through the curtain. I was like, oh. It was, yeah, so it didn't turn out. But clearly he didn't hate me too much because I still was the champion and I still got to do. So maybe deep down, he really loved it. But that footage is nowhere to be found. You can't find it. Or at least not in the WWE vault, you can't find it.

You can find it. Some grainy footage on YouTube. Graney YouTube footage that's been taped over a VHS double taped. And someday you probably won't ever be able to find it again. When you went home that night, so you're talking about you riding the high of being out there winning the championship, match with Tristratus to then the low of going through the curtain and being chewed out, you go back to the hotel that night. Humbled.

Immediately humbled because it was like high of high, of high, of high, and then humbled. That's my whole career, a career being humbled. Is it also like, okay, maybe I shouldn't try things? Like, are you in that moment, like just trying to walk on eggshells for the next little while? Well, now I'm like, well, now I'm the champion. Are they going to take the championship off me? Or is he? Like, am I going to lose this tomorrow at Raw?

Or, you know, and I didn't. And I, you know, I would think, yeah, I was, I won't say I was devastated. I mean, it was a little bit because I was, I thought it was going to be awesome. And I thought it was a moment. And I was like, oh, this moment's going to live forever in WrestleMania history. And it's going to be awesome. And it's going to be nutrition. And it does, but in a different way.

It lives in information. So maybe, yeah, in infamy for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it was, I was still high in the moment, you know, but I was just, I was defeated. I felt really because I was like, oh, you know. Shopping for a car should be exciting, not exhausting. But between misleading prices and hidden fees, it can feel like a mace. That's where car gurus comes in.

They rank the best deals, verified dealers, and make sure you never pay more than you should. your big deal just became a great deal. Car gurus will connect you with trusted dealerships when you're ready, ensuring a transparent and hassle-free buying process because you don't want any hassles. With over 4 million listings, Car Gurus has more car listings than any other major online automotive marketplace in the U.S. So you can find the best deal. It's no wonder similar web estimated traffic data shows Car Gurus is the number one most visited

car shopping site. Buy or sell your next car today with car gurus at car gurus.com. Go to car gurus.com. Make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S.com. Car gurus.com. This episode is brought to you by timeline.

Have you tried all the health trends, but you're still feeling tired, foggy, or off your game? You are not alone, my friend. It's time to go deeper. We're talking. way deeper because true health starts in your cells. Timeline has the first ever longevity gummies powered by Mitopure. A delicious, easy way to put more energy into your day.

These are the only clinically proven urolithine gummies for strength, endurance, and healthy aging from the inside out. I recently turned 42, and I think a lot about what life will look like in my 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. I want to live into my hundreds. And I understand that our body makes less and less energy as we get older. But these really help to recharge the batteries. I take them every single day, and I love how these gummies taste.

If you want to stay strong and energized now as you age, then you have to try mitochondrure gummies. My friends at Timeline are offering 20% off just for you because you're listening right now. Head to Timeline.com slash insight to get started. That's timeline. dot com slash insight for 20% on. Your cells will thank you. I feel like a lot of careers, not just wrestling,

a lot of careers in general is high, and then you kind of string a bunch of highs along, right? Eyes and lows. Dips. It dips. Well, it's got to. What's the next high after that? Where do you go to from there?

From WrestleMania to... WrestleMania, first women's championship. Yeah. I'll say, you know, another the one cool, another cool moment, and I've had so many, it's hard to think, but I think winning the championship from Beth Phoenix in England for the first time on television, I know it crossed, you know, but for the furthest time that I could ever remember, certainly of that generation or whatever, for the women's championship to change hands over outside of the country,

outside of the United States of America, and to do that. And England and, you know, also got the cover of the DVD, like that official box set stuff, that that was out there and that's, you know, and that whole story with Beth, like, I love, she was one of my favorite opponents ever, you know, we just, I think, too, because I had Beth's first ever match, you know, that she ever had in a wrestling ring, um, in front of people to all the way there and our careers and passions that, you know, for so long, it's crazy, but that was really, really cool. It's hard to define because nothing could compare to that moment. You know, that was the moment.

And then everything, I think all the stuff after that, I guess, was work to try to maintain and still be seen or stay in the picture or, you know, your own insecurity start creeping in or whatever. But I certainly had some awesome moments or whatever, but nothing ever kind of compared to that moment until, I mean, aside, like from, my son being born, you know, stuff like that. Until the Rumble, when I went back to knockout, as the knockouts world champion, I think that was, I won't say it was equal, but it was different. You truly crossed the line with that one. Like for at that point in time and people may not realize this, there was no relationship with WWVNTNA.

No. Is it true? I mean, aside from sometimes there might have been like, hey, can we like footage share? Sure. Or something. You might have seen a glimpse of TNA footage and a package very rare. Is it true? Vince didn't know where you were working at that point in time.

So he wanted you in the Rumble. And someone was like, well, she's kind of the knockouts out knockouts champion right now. And I think it was like, well, okay. Really? Who told you that one? I'm actually not sure. You heard through the great mind. This is the story I heard.

Oh, wonderful. Like they're in a meeting and like, they're like, well, we need some nice surprise. This is in the women's rumble. Yeah. How about Mickey James? Well, might be difficult because she works somewhere else and they figured it out. Yeah. That makes me happy that he would, you know, I, because even the day of like the whole

trash bag incident, we talk about that. Like, he caught, everybody called me, obviously everybody. And I was in the middle of a photo shoot as, like I posted the picture. Did I tell you this? I've told you this story. Yeah, why was it important to you to post that photo? I don't know if it was important to me to post that photo. But you could have just texted someone and been like,

What the frick? Yeah. Because I wasn't, I don't think, I wasn't as offended as the fans were when it happened because I think, I don't think you realize how many times we've been offended or you, I just had stopped. I'm so numb to getting my feelings hurt or like I'm so used to like, oh, you got to separate your ego from it. And don't take it personal.

It's just business. It's fine. You know, so I posted it in sarcasm because I'm a sarcastic person. I'm a sarcastic person. And if I was to be honest, I got two boxes with two trash bags, you know. And I still have the trash bags because I'm keeping them. Keeping them. Receipts. No. But I think it was important for a couple reasons. Well, one, because I'm a smart ass and it was sarcastic. And I'm, you know, I remembered in 2010 when I got my stuff back and I got it the same way. And 2010 me was devastated. In 2010 me was like, oh my God, they think I'm trash. They hate me.

Like, they're throwing me out with the trash. Oh, like, nothing I did matter. Like, you know what I mean? I took it real personal. This time I didn't take it personal. I'm like, of course. Like on part. Don't think.

Like thoughtlet. It's not about it was intense. It's more about the lack of thought of how you're so disposable. That's how. And I was like on par of sometimes how this game makes you feel, you know? And so I kind of posted it like that. Like I was literally excited to get the box only because it had all my jackets in there. And I'm getting ready to walk out the door to do this photo shoot with Chapel Heart for our single that's coming out and do all this other stuff.

And so I'm like, oh, my jackets. I'm so excited. And I open it. I'm like, mother. Of course. So did that. And then as I'm driving, I posted it. And I was like, yeah, there.

Like. And then as, yeah. I mean, the hunter called me. Stephanie texts me. Johnny called me. Johnny called me. Right. Like, and, you know, I feel like that.

I feel bad. You know, I still feel bad for Mark Carano who got fired for it because Mark was always good to me. Mark took care of me. when I was there. He was probably one of my dear actual friends sometimes there. And so he's the one who got fired, but it was just a testament to like they,

that was like a company thing of like, they just didn't really think, you know, of how that would affect, especially if you are already in a bad place when you talk about mental health and all these things. And one of the worst days of your life. Worst day of your life, whatever. Worst day of your career for sure.

Totally, especially if it's like the first time you lost, you know, now you're on the, oh, there's always, there's never a, you know, there's always an opportunity to have a second time or a third time. Yeah, you realize that. But then, you know. Yeah. In that moment, you've lost your dream job.

You're devastated. Yeah. You're devastated. And your stuff has arrived in a trash bag. Totally. And so, and then other people came out and, oh, of course it did. Because that was just like how all it was done. We have these massive drawers full of all of our stuff for the road.

We got lots of just in case outfits. And so ship them. And I don't think anybody else would get their stuff that way anymore. So that's fine. You changed. Yeah, I don't think they come in Gucci bags, but they certainly don't come in hefty bags. It's crazy. It was crazy to see.

And then as the fans are responding and like whatever, because I'm halfway through the shoot. And then all of a sudden I look at my phone, my phone's blown up, and I'm doing all this time. I'm like, what? I was like, oh, my God. I didn't even realize I should have been offended. You know? I'm so used to being like, suck it up, Buttercup that I didn't even think about that. side of how offensive it actually was.

And how would they, who, you know, not to compare stuff like that, but would, I don't know. Would they have done that to someone that they thought highly of, you know? And so I was like, oh, I guess I should, should be offended. Like I kind of did it, you know, out of sarcasm, but you're right. This is bullshit. Kind of bullshit. But, yeah. But Vince called me and I spoke to him on the phone.

And so that was what I was going to. as I ramble on. Vince called me, and we spoke on the phone. In the middle, I called him. He was the one person I actually did call back in the middle of that shoot because I was like, Vince has never called me before. So, and he was like, left me a voicemail or a voice note, actually, where he's like, because my voicemail box was full.

And he was like, your voicemail fox is full, by the way. I was like, oh, no. I can't win with this man. Yeah. But he was genuine. like, you know, I've never thought that of you and I've always thought highly of you and I'm so sorry that happened and that person is not here anymore. And then I was like, oh, felt bad, Mark Corona. I was like, God. Like, but, and I was, and I was even honest with him. I was like,

I don't, I don't, I don't think that you ever felt that way. And I don't think, but Vince, I don't, sometimes I did feel that. I did feel. And I don't think it was you personally. And I don't ever, he's always, he was always good to me, gave me more opportunities, gave me my dream and all that stuff. But I also didn't think he was sometimes aware of the other things or like how we feel in those moments because you can't just go run into Vince and talk about how you feel, you know? But then within that same year, you're in the Rumble. Yeah. And that was a massive moment for me. Because so then after all of that and then, so I knew it wasn't a personal thing. That was kind of my point and all that. And then I was very grateful that he even took the time to call me and to apologize

and to really talk to me and tell me that he valued me because I think that was something that I always wanted to hear. And so that meant a lot. It meant a lot to me. And then, yeah, so then they wanted me to come back for the Rumble. And I was with TNA at the time, but not technically, I wasn't technically under contract, but I was the knockouts champion.

And when they called and asked me and talked to me about it, and I was like, I kind of was like, I'm only going to do it if I can be me. I'm knockouts champion. I'm TNA knockouts champion and I'm hardcore country. And hardcore country was something I always wanted to present in front of a WWE audience. But I never had an opportunity to try, you know. So it was an cool opportunity to do that and to show them that this would have worked and it would have been awesome, you know.

But also to shine. a light on TNA and the knockouts division and a division that I think was the true catalyst of the women's revolution of a division that always gave their women an opportunity before it was cool, before it was catchy, before it was trendy, before it was a hashtag, you know, they've always done that, you know. So, and it was to take care of a company that always took care of me and bridge a gap that I think always needed to be bridge, because of even, especially when you look at the WWU roster right now and a lot of the folks that are in that roster, a lot of them had a journey here at TNA as well.

So yeah, it was cool. You were the bridge between two eras, really. Like, you're the bridge between the Divas era and like what we have now. Yeah. Wild. He's wild. Yeah, crazy to think about that. Yeah, I think it.

Well, even the air, like I was fortunate enough to come in. they had started calling it the divas era or whatever, but it wasn't, I wouldn't say, it was on the tail end because Lita was still there. Trish was still there of that golden era of the women, where it didn't feel like we're all being grouped into this one group of like the divas, you know?

And so I was, that was really, really cool, but I also was like, that's what I wanted. I wanted to be Mickey James, the superstar, not,

you know, one of the divas, you know. And so I really struggled with the divas, I think a lot on a personal, professional level, because I'm like, I'm more than just a diva. I don't want to be grouped into a group. I want to be a superstar. Like I got, I love this and I want to be the greatest women's champion of all time. I can't do that if I'm just a diva. Like, you know, it was so weird, but it was like, yeah. So I obviously love all the women and the divas and all that and all the women that I got to work with in that. But, But selfishly, I was like, no, I want to be Mickey James, you know.

When did you start to see the tides turning? Right before I left, right before I left. I mean, I felt like it was kind of turning, but it was this weird shift that was happening. And it was going more, I could feel it when it was like, hey, maybe the girl shouldn't throw punches. I was like, I throw great punches. Great punch. I worked really hard on my punch. What do you mean not throw punches?

Girls don't want to, we don't, nobody wants to see a girl get punched in the face. I'm like, you told the slap? Flippers instead. What would be flippers? Who hits with their elbow? The flippers, and I tell you what, I got a bad shoulder today, bad shoulders.

Why? Flippers. Tell you. I don't, yeah, so. Anyway, just little things like that, like of like, oh, no, we can't let the girls do that. Yeah, I was like, you know, and this is coming from a time where you had already seen the women in a main event. You've already seen the women's in Falls Count Anywhere matches. You'd already seen, you know, Trish and Lita main event the show and do that hard.

You know, you'd seen jazz do hard. You'd seen all this. So it was like almost like we were digressing. We were going backwards. And it was away from everything that I had, you know, I had made a promise that you want to change the business and make it better for the women. And I was like, why are we going backwards? Oh, because the wrestling's going backwards. And it's, you know, we're not hiring as many wrestlers.

We're hiring models and we're hiring, you know, different folks and nothing to them. You know what I mean? Some of them are still my dearest friends, you know. And there's some of them like the Candace Michelle's or Kelly Kelly or even. Foxy. You know, you look at them and they were hired under it. But they busted their ass and really dedicated themselves to the craft and to be known as a good wrestler, too, you know. But there was a lot of them there that did not care about wrestling at all. And it was so frustrating, you know. So, yeah, I think it tested me, you know, it was a different type of test. That whole, that was

kind of like, oh, this isn't what I really want. This is. what I'd signed up for, you know. So then when evolution came around in 2018, did it finally feel like, okay, things have changed? It certainly felt like, hey, the company, I think things had changed before that, you know, I think it was really cool because I think it was something that women, all the women had really, really wanted and had hoped for for a long time as an opportunity just to do something cool and unique and really like push forward the women.

I think it was the first time the company goes like, okay, aside from, hey, we're going to do this divas magazine or something like this, this was like, no, we're going to do a pay-per-view. And we're really going to highlight the women. And we're going to show what we can do if we just put on an all-female card. And it was magical, and it was an incredible night. And for everyone that showed up and showed out. And then there were so many moments within that pay-per-view. and I still think like that first one, like it was, it was special.

And it was special because I think the fans were so hungry and happy and on for the ride as well. Because they were hot that night. And it was like they were as hot as they would be for any other pay-per-view that night, you know. I can't believe it took seven years to do another one. Wild. Right. I don't even know if we should have called, like, it should have been called number two at this point. Or if it should have been like, revolution.

I thought for sure it was going to be every year. Uh, yeah. That's what it felt like. It would have been cool. Yeah, I thought, I kind of was hoping. I think we all were hoping like, oh, it would be, you know, one every year. Or maybe it could be one of those things of like they do at WrestleMania weekend or like SummerSlam weekend. It could be a doubleheader or something like that.

Like, you know, that's okay. Feels like maybe that's where we're at now. Maybe. There's a lot. There is a lot of wrestling right now. Oh my gosh. There's so much wrestling. Yeah.

It's so much rest. This can't keep up with it all. It's great. It is great. Think of how many of your friends now. Get to have jobs. Yes. And have a place to showcase their talents and their abilities and make a living.

Get to wrestle full time. And not just be weekend warriors and praying for one company to give them a chance. What was your job before you were a wrestler? Oh, God, which one? The last job I had before I got signed the day that I could quit to go. become a full-time WWE employee, whatnot employee,

independent contractor, and moved down to Louisville. I was working at Olive Garden. As a server? As a server. Unlimited breadsticks and soup. And soup and salad. That's right.

And sometimes the postable, the unlimited postable. And I had to know all the wines and what they paired with. Yeah. I chased a whole table, a party of, I don't know,

it must have been 15 or 20. It was a corporate party or whatever, out the door and through their chains. back at them when they tipped me like 37 cents or something. No. How much was their belt? I think they thought that I, because I didn't, I never, hindsight, I was, you know, I was broke as a joke.

And, but I was really annoyed because when you have a party like that when you're serving and you have a shift, they take up your entire shift, right? So then your whole, that was that party and then a couple other tables for like, that was my whole day that day. so I literally probably made $14 that day. But, and not the 37 cents because I threw it at them. I ran out and I almost got fired that day. Their tip was 37 cents.

Yeah, and their bill was like, I mean, it's all of garden. So it was a lot of endless things that you could have. But still in the hundreds. It was, yeah. It was like a big party. And they would have like corporate. Oh, my gosh. And I never grat it because I always get pissed off when people automatically grat because

I was like, I was going to actually tip you more than that. So I always get annoyed when people did that. So I never did it as a server. I never really did it. And I think maybe they thought that I had included it, but I did not. Anyway, so I ran out the door and threw it at them. You keep this. You keep your 37 cents.

And I don't need it now either. Your quarter, your dime, and your two pennies. I don't want it. What am I going to do with it? this. What was the job before that? I was working at a truck stop as a waitress. I was working at truck stop as a waitress. I was living, I'd moved back in with my grandma. This is in Virginia. This is in Virginia right before that. Before that, I had moved that. And before that, I was dancing. I was a stripper. That's what I did. And I was making bank. I was making so much

money. You know, I don't think I've ever actually talked about this publicly and I'm talking about this with you. And this, I was saving this for my book, because a lot of people actually know this and know this journey or whatever, but I was dancing. I was out of high school, wanted to go, I thought about going to the, I wanted to go to college. Didn't go to college. Couldn't afford to go to college. Parents couldn't afford to go to semi-college. And I failed to get the honors diploma because I failed algebra two. It was terrible at math still to this day. Does I ask my husband. But yeah, so, but so then I, I, got left and then I thought about doing the Army of Reserves chickened out because, you know,

if you do that, you can go to college for free folks. But I chickened out. It was just crazy because, you know, it was right before the Gulf War. Yeah, what was that? Yeah, crazy. And I chickened out. Think of how different your life would be. Oh, my God. And, you know, that's why I chickened out. I was like, I can't go to war. I can't kill nobody. I mean, I would. If I had to, we come in my house, three o'clock in the morning. You may not leave. Um, but I was like, I, I can't do this. I was like, I, pet that all, whatever. I was like, this is what am I going to do? And yeah, went to, I don't know, 18 young, dumb me, whatever. But I will say, so I was dancing at a club and that's what I was doing. And, but that's how I

found the wrestling school is because a friend of mine who worked the door at the bouncer at the club, I would, in the middle of shift, whatever, I would be watching. wrestling and the stuff like if it was Monday Night Raw if it was whatever I was already I grew up a wrestling fan I was passionate about wrestling like loved wrestling and now it's the attitude area and wrestling is cool again is the coolest it's ever been probably the coolest it will ever be um and yeah was watching and then my buddy goes hey my friend owns the wrestling school it's up by DC so it's like two and a half hours for me so you really love wrestling I was like oh my god so much love it so much I always said I could be a wrestler.

But, you know, yeah. And he's like, why don't I just, why don't you? I'll get his number or whatever. Want you content? I like, you can go up there. I was like, really? I had never even heard of such a thing, you know. And so, yeah, I went up there.

It was a November, November 98. Went up there and walked into this jujitsu boxing school that they had a wrestling. It wasn't a wrestling ring. It was boxing ring in the back. the rope sucked, had no give. It was terrible ringed learning, but that's where I learned. And that's what I walked in and I saw. And I'm like, yes, I'm doing this.

Came back because I was making bank. How do you stop making bank, though? How do you leave that? I'll tell you. I'll tell you. So, many levels to that story. But I'll tell you the, I remember the night to this day. And it's crazy.

I can't believe I'm sharing this with you. But okay, whatever. Anyway, so I went back the next week, paid in full for my class, boom, in cash. How much was it? I think it was $1,500. Wow. Yeah. Paying cash, boom.

I said, let's go. And I never looked back. Never, never look back. And so then I'm doing that. I'm doing boat, like I'm just, you know, training and doing stuff. And then I'd go work these, wrestle in front of it. of 50 people at the Armory. And it didn't matter that it wasn't making any money because I wasn't getting paid.

I wasn't making any money. Really, I was still a trainee. And, you know, I think for the first two years, the most I ever made was $25 to wrestle, to do anything, you know. Yeah. And what was your best night dancing? God, like 10 grand. 10 grand.

Yeah. What was your worst night? Like a grand. Better than 25 bucks. Better than 25 bucks. Yeah. Yeah, no, it was stupid. I was like, but it was also a different me.

I was also doing a lot of other things, extracurricular activities, things that, you know, we'll learn about. I'll book one day maybe. But I'll say it was a life. It was a weird life. It was, you know, and I look back and I go, oh, God. Thank God we didn't have social media back then, you know. Thank God. But learning and lessons.

So the way I walked away from it was not only was I, I was engaged to this guy at the time and then he we actually started training wrestling he came school and started training wrestling too and he's not i think he's um he was i have no ill will and like amazing i think he's moved on kids whatever everything else um but he we broke he cheated on me we broke up and all that other stuff and it was i was devastated and um then i was working in the restaurant i mean in the bar one night i was at that i was at the club at the club at the Liza, working one night, and W.W.E. happened to be in town that night. And of course, after the show was over, I was working this night. I've never, I've never told the story.

And I won't say who walked in, but post show and walks some wrestlers from television. And I could not tell you how fast I ran to the back and sat back in the back. it would not go out there. And as I'm sitting back there and they're going like, make you get out there, you should go out there, you should go talk to him. You can get a job. You're like, whatever,

especially my friend who had told me to get into wrestling in the first place. Like, why aren't you going out there? I was like, they can't see me like this. They can't see me like this. I don't want to be known for this. Like, this is not how I want them. I want them to respect me. They'll never respect me.

They'll never respect me if they see me like this. They're just going to think I'm a rat. They're going to think I'm this and I'm not. Like, I want to be respected. in this business means a lot to me. And I was like, I can't let them see me like this. And I wouldn't go back out there. And I actually got and I left.

And I went back home to my hotel. And I was like, I had to make a choice. And I was like, it was almost like God. I was like praying. And I was like, I have to make a choice. Like, do I want wrestling? Because this easy money, but it's not going to last, you know. And also I didn't respect myself.

And I was, I didn't respect myself. Didn't love myself. Didn't a lot of things. myself. And I was like, if I ever want to make it in this business, I can't have both. Like, I can't do this. I can't do this anymore. And I certainly don't want them to meet, like, so I just quit. I just walked in the next day and I said, I can't do this. Wow. And I couldn't afford my apartment anymore in my lifestyle or any of that stuff. And I was just like, and I had to move back in with my grandma. And I've lived downstairs and had to, that's when I got a job at the truck stop.

And I was like, I am committing a whole like 1,000% to wrestling. Like, this is going to be it. Like, I'm going to make it. I have to make it. I have to make it. There was that one moment. If Raw hadn't been in town. No.

If they hadn't walked in that bar. Right. If they hadn't walked into the club. Or if you weren't working that night. And they had just said like, oh, the other boys, the wrestlers show, you should have been here. I would have been like, oh, God, I'm glad I wasn't there. Yeah, I wouldn't have. Because I think sitting back there in the locker room like this.

and going like, I don't want them to see me like this. Like I was embarrassed. I was ashamed. You're right. I was. Your identity was already, you're a wrestler. Yeah. Not this.

Right. I was like this. Yeah. This is somebody else. Like this isn't. And so I left and I never looked back. Wow. I mean, my banquet, when I was stealing gas to make it to Badoca, Kentucky one time,

I was second guessed if this was a good choice. Stealing gas. And then I got a speeding to. No, from a truck truck. a gas station. You know, because it wasn't the ones. I mean, this is pre like you had to tap or anything. Right, right. Pre authorization. Yeah, you're in the middle of nowhere, Kentucky. They probably thought I was going to come in and just pay cash after, you know, like whatever. I did not. I'm so sorry. And I don't. Maybe you're still wanted for this. Instant karma. I got probably 30. And I'm running late for a show and everything. I'm with Bobby Joe Persephone. We do wrestling shows all the time. We traveled everywhere for our $25 everywhere. Um, about 30 minutes later as I'm racing through, I got a speeding ticket for like 90 and a 55. Instant karma.

So anyway, yeah. But that's how, yeah, I was broke. If you now could go into that club and talk to that version of you back then, would you say? You know, I think I was, you know, looking for a lot of things. I didn't value myself a lot in that. And I think it took a long time for me to really, even that or through all the things, it took a long time for me to fall in love with myself as who I was. I think I spent a long time of my life escaping who I was in my history and my childhood

and all these things. So if I could tell her anything, it would be I love you, you know? That's powerful. Yeah. You've got a hell of a story. Crazy. Crazy. Are you writing this book?

I'm scared to write the book. I can't even be like, you know, healing is a journey. And I think that you think you're healed. And sometimes it's just when you think about it. It's just not. Yeah. We love you, Mickey. Yeah.

Thank you. I love you too. And I do love me as well. You know, the good, the bad, and the ugly. You got to love them all. When did that happen? Um, I don't know. I think it's something that I've,

you know, probably more recent than not, you know. Hmm. Do you think becoming a mom? Definitely helped. It definitely helped. I think that's the first time I really knew, true, true love. You know. It changes everything.

God, it changes everything. And people say that and it's so corny. And I never really saw myself as wanting to be a mom just because of my own life, sorry. No, no. Thank you for being so open. Oh, my God. I'm surprised that I am. Because, you know, I did.

There's a reason why I haven't talked about many of these things. One, because it hurts. But two, because it's like, you know, sorry. No, it's okay. I'm sorry. Like I said, it's okay. You don't have to apologize. I think, like you said, you spend so long, like, at least I did.

I don't know if this is true for everybody, but I spent a lot of time escaping, trying to escape who I was and still be loved, you know? And it took me to accept who I was, mistakes and all to be loved. And the only person I really needed love was from was myself, you know? But yeah, it's just been, it's healing is a journey. And I think that what you see, and that's what you see on screen, you don't see the full picture, you know? You don't see everything. I've always been amazed by that, right?

Like if you have a match on Monday, for example, or even match on impact, people see you for eight, 10, 20 minutes a week. Yeah. That's it. And they think they know you. Yeah. And they don't see the rest of your life. They don't see the rest of the week and everything else you go through.

They just see you curtain to curtain. And so many of you struggle with so much. Yeah. I think that's what makes, that's probably, you know, You know what? As painful or hurtful or traumatic, as some of the things that, you know, anyone, I think that's what's really made me a great performer, honestly, is because of the, you know, the obstacles and the overcoming and it's really tested me in a lot of ways of who I am as a human

being. Is it difficult when your wrestling name is Mickey James? Am I real? To separate the two. Yes. And your real name is Mickey James? Um, sometimes, sometimes, uh, it's a blessing and a curse, isn't it? Because you can't escape it. It's not like I'm, you know, Alexis by, you know, over here and then I can go home and just be me and just be Mickey James because there is that still that expectation, I suppose. Yeah. But like when the undertaker's the undertaker, right? We get it. He's the dead man. Yeah. He's the dead man. Yeah. He's the. Mark Calloway is a completely different person.

Yeah, he's a human being. Yeah. You know? Mickey James and Mickey James, one and the same. Yeah. And I think, you know, especially when fans are coming. Luckily, I've been a baby face for most of my career. So for the most part, I get a lot of love.

Yeah. But like, you know, when they come at, they're like, come at you. They're coming at you as a performer as a person. Yeah. Which one is it to separate the two? You know, and that's actually probably made me, made it easier for me to separate the two because I, because I had to, and I had to, like, remind myself, they're not talking about me.

They don't know me the person. They only know what I've let them see or what the companies let them see or this side of me. And some of it's not all, like, not all of it's real, you know, of like a real of how I really feel or what, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, same thing with Nick.

Yeah. With your husband. Yeah. Right. His real name's Nick Aldus. I know. Yeah. Crazy.

Good for you, babe. Smart. The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Times ticking.

I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the Home Soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco, follow and listen on your favorite platform. You have your job and you're as busy as you are.

Yeah. Nick has his job. He's as busy as he is. And you have a son and you're both trying to be there, but you're both growing in your careers. Yeah. How do you balance that? I mean, that's been the story of our relationship, really. We met and we've always for the, I think we always kept our careers, especially when

we first started dating and stuff, we kept our careers separately because, you know, he was up and coming and he was Magnus, you know, and he was, um, a lot of man. A lot of man. Yeah, he is. That was weird. Mustard biscuits. I love it. I mean, Magnus is, I would probably should say one of the most jacked TNA stars of all

time. Oh, he's so handsome. Very handsome. Did he, I know, he's told you out my looking at him like him. like and that's the story on how you guys met how we fell in love no i knew i loved him when we were in leon but that's yeah it's it's i think our whole careers have been separate there's very few stories that we've actually done together you know we we kept it separate in the beginning i think because i was already established and a household name and wwe coming from wwe when i met him

and, you know, coming into TNA and he was still getting opportunities and being seen and then started doing with Doug. And I think he just didn't want to be, um, and nor did I, because I knew he was so good and he's so talented. Never wanted that stigma of being like,

oh, Mickey James's boyfriend or, you know, Mr. James, God forbid. Or like, like, ever to live in a shadow of like, because our careers are so different. And then there was been very few times when we've actually done stuff together, you know, which has been magical. But it just, you know, it just took a while, I think. And I think now to see him on this side and doing all this, it's amazing. But our whole careers, we've been balancing this juggle act of like fitting in time for each other and stuff.

Nick plays this GM rule so perfectly. Oh, my God, so good at it. Because it's like, it's almost like a. stern parent. Yes. Yeah. Like maybe he's borrowing that from his real life. I don't know.

I don't know that he's that stern with D. He's not. But it's like he, there's a fine line, right? Because he's, he's management in this role. Yeah. Like he's,

he's calling the shots. He's not your friend, but he lays down the line. He's the boss. Yeah. I think he's really stepped. I think he's owned it. And he's so good.

You know, like I go, he rivals. like, who he might rival at Teddy Long? He might, as the greatest GM of all time, in my humble opinion. And I think that right now, with Adam Pearson Raw, with Nick on Smackdown, these are the best GMs they've ever had. It's so far.

But also in the back of your mind, you know both of them can go at any given moment. And everybody always talks about that, right? When you've got the Raw General Manager, who's the former NWA World's Heavyweight Champion, You've got the Smackdown General Manager who's a former NWA World's Heavyweight champion. Totally. If they were captains of the teams

for Survivor Series. Oh, I think you're on to something, Mickey. Yeah. Blood feud. Maybe not that part. No, that's just too far. Too far. It is always nice, though, when Nick's in the ring.

Always. Because... I mean, aside from when he gets like Archaoed. He's just happened a few times. Bullshit, Randy. Do you think Nick has another run in him? Oh, my God. God, yes. Oh, he's far from done. I mean, I think if he was ever given, and I would pray for, like, the perfect opportunity and story or whatever, but I think that if he's ever given an opportunity to put on his boots and get out in that ring, I know it would be a dream come true for him, obviously.

You heard the whispers around WrestleMania when Randy Orton did an opponent. Can you imagine? He was at the top of the list. Yeah. And my list, too. My list, too. No. God, yeah. Can you imagine? Oh, it would be a dream come true. I don't think you get into this business without dreaming of a WrestleMania moment. Or if you do, I don't, we're not the same. You know what I mean? Because that was, I didn't just, I mean, you want the WrestleMania moment. You want to be the greatest of all time.

You want, you know, want, want, want, want, what's your favorite nickel this match of all time? Oh, my gosh. I don't know. You know, the 10 pounds of gold stuff for me, all of that and the traveling champion, that whole thing. I think that not only was it the best thing NWA had done in a very long time and probably has done, you know, since. But it defined him and it separated him and it was unique in the way it was done. And it really allowed him to just be himself, you know, to speak from the heart, to speak. And he's always been a great talker.

I mean, it worked, it worked for me anyway. But to just be himself. And I was like, oh, my God, it was so good. It was so good. And the people embraced it. And it was just beautiful. And it was beautifully done. That whole.

And I think at that time in our lives, you know, it was special. And Donovan was there for so much of it, too, with him. And I was on the road with WWE. It was just different. And it was unique. And I think that's probably my favorite stuff he's ever done. What's your favorite match? Of mine?

Yeah. Oh, it'll forever be me and Trish. You know, and I think because that was the dream come true for the girl, for the little girl and me that, you know, and it was like proving that dreams do come true and all that. So that match will always be emotionally my favorite match of all time, for sure. So you are most certainly not retired as you sit here in front of me right now. I'm not.

I mean, I might be a little grizzled. I don't sell it. But not retired. Retirement's an interesting word in wrestling. I don't think people ever retire in wrestling. Right. I mean, the right moment, the right story, the right opponent. Do you think about those things?

Right moment, right opponent, right time. Oh, my gosh, yes. I think you're always open. I was like, even till the day, you always got to be ready. And that's like a mental crazy. Always got to be ready because you just never know. You never know. The Royal Rumble is right around the corner.

It is. It is. And my shoulders feel good. So I feel like I could throw a lot of people out. How about some flippers? We're going to have it now. But the Royal Rumble is right around the corner. I feel like there's a chance.

We could see you there. So you're saying there's a chance. I love that movie. So good. good. So good. Yeah, could be. So you're in. James. Thank you. Samson. I was way off. Swimmy, swammy. Dumb and dumber. It's so good. It's so great. So good. Oh, God. You're a legend. And thank you for being so open. Oh, my God. Thank you. Thanks for coming all the way here to Nashville and coming to talk to me. Of course. I'm honored to sit down here and talk to you. You have talked to some amazing people.

And I think what you're doing for us and for the business and to be able to be transparent, but also it's just really cool. And I love you as a person. I think you're awesome. Thank you. I love you, Mickey. You're the best. Yay. What are three things as we sit here right now that you are grateful for? Because gratitude is such a huge part of my life. Got to. I think every day that I get to wake up and take a breath and be a mom, I'm grateful for all of that, you know. I'm grateful to have made it on this side of the journey because I think that I've made some decisions in my life where I go like, I'm surprised that I did make it this far.

You know, I think for my faith, I'm grateful for my faith. And I think that not just, you know, in above and God and that that has made me keep the faith in myself as well, you know, even in the darkest, lonely, places, that is always there. And you can always see that. So that. I don't think I have anything that I'm not really grateful for. I'll be honest.

Beautiful thing to say. Yeah, I don't have, I mean, I'm grateful for my son and my family and all the same cliched things. But I don't think there's a moment, even the dark times that we talk about, like, that I'm not grateful for because it's what made me who I am. and it made me make it here. So, yeah. Congratulations on an incredible career.

Thank you. We haven't even talked about this beautiful belt that's next to you. This is not an official. It's not, you know, TNA doesn't have replica belts. Well, they should. They should. And this is the old school one. You can grab it.

The most beautiful one. May I hold it? Oh my God, please, feel the density in this thing. It's a legit replica belt. know I have this belt. It still has the crystals taped to the back in case we lose one. So Lisa Marie, my dear friend Lisa Marie, she goes out and she's getting ready to do this thing. And I see that she has a belt in her hand.

And I think Lisa is being Lisa. You've met Lisa. Yes. She's wonderful. She's one of the greatest people on the planet. But you know she, like when she does signings and appearances and stuff like that. Oh, she's in character. Full gimmick.

And she has the women's championship. All the gear, yes. knockouts chance she has all the things she's ready she's the most prepared than anyone else so i thought she was just going out as you know with the championship and in my mind as i'm watching her go like why is she taking the knockout championship out there with her what was she doing and then she threw her shoe and other things happen she's the greatest and i love you and there's nobody else that i would want to share at that moment with um because she was part of making hardcore country Like my whole first year as hardcore country was it was me and her and Madison

You know anyway She had this made for me And she gave it to me because she says I'm forever a champion Forever a knockout so she had this made for me and gave it to me that night So that's why I never had one now I have one Oh How about that? Amazing yeah

Mickey you're the best thank you thank you again thank you I try Jim Rome takes on sports Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand.

He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.