Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mickie James on her WWE release, trashbag incident, her role with NWA, Nick Aldis

Episode Date: June 17, 2021

Mickie James is a professional wrestler and country singer. She talks to Chris Van Vliet from her home in Nashville, TN about her recent WWE release, her new role with the NWA and working as the Executive Producer for the all women's Pay Per View event called "Empowerrr", what her husband Nick Aldis thought about her being released, her country music career, her new single called "Grown Ass Woman", her podcast with SoCal Val and Lisa Marie Varon called "GAWTV" and much more! Submit your Blue Wire Hustle application here: http://bwhustle.com/join If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, my friends, and welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm Chris Van Fleet. Thank you so much for being with us on this episode and on every single episode. And what a treat to have Mickey James back on the show. This is our third interview together. The last one, if you want to look it up, episode number 100 with her GawTV co-host, SoCalVal. God TV, of course, is the podcast slash YouTube channel that Mickey does with SoCal Val and Lisa Marie Varen, aka Victoria from WWE.

So wherever you're listening to this right now, you can find their show, Gaw TV, G-A-W-TV. I was actually a guest in December. I don't know why they wanted me on the show, but I was a guest in December so you can go check out that episode. If you're not already, you can follow Mickey on social media. She is at the Mickey James. I am at Chris Van Fleet. So take a screenshot. Let us know that you're on this ride with us

because we cover a lot in this conversation. And if you don't already, make sure to follow or subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening to this. And we talk about her recent release from WWE. We talk about the trash bag gate that was being called. You know what I'm talking about

when she was released and all her stuff was put in a trash bag. We also talk about her new role as the executive producer with the NWA and they're all women's pay-per-view called Empower, which is happening on August 28th. So let's do it. Ladies and gentlemen, Mickey, James.

So good to see you. Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. Welcome back to the show. I know. It's been a while. It's been a long while. It is, well, look, I mean, we did an interview in person.

This was years ago. Yes. You know, we had some of you and your Goss sisters on recently, like, you know, during the pandemic when this was the only way that we could speak to each other. I know, I know. But since then, you know, your, your podcast, your YouTube channel has been growing so much. It was crazy. It's crazy. We've found our, we've really, really found our groove. I think that in the space of like taking the show, like really trying to create the show as a real show and kind of editing it down and then doing the podcast and doing like different things, just kind of, it's taken a minute.

We've been doing it for a year now. And obviously it started during the pandemic. because, you know, we thought it would be fun and we needed something to cure our boredom. But it's really taking on a life of its little own there. So it's really, really cool to see. Well, and I was honored to be a guest. I can't even believe that you guys would want me on your show. I can't believe you wore a onesie on our show. Yes.

It was amazing. Lisa showed up at my house and said, I have a onesie. You don't have to wear it. But if you're like, give me that onesie. I'm like, I'll do anything for you. you guys. But it's so good to have you back on the show. Obviously, a lot has changed, you know, since the last time I saw you on.

How about the fact that you were now an executive producer in NWA? Yeah. It's a really cool. It's a really cool space. It's really, really cool because obviously it means that I'm in charge of and kind of co-owner, co-promote, or co-whatever you want to call it with Billy. And the fact that Billy believes in me enough to, you know, give me the NW. umbrella to kind of build this thing, which was something that I've wanted to do for a long time,

is really, really cool. You know, and it's, I think that we have the potential to do some really, really cool stuff there. And I'm just grateful to be, you know, to be able to shine a light on women's wrestling, you know, is something that I've wanted to do. And I think that we do a lot of that, but we have so many, like, shows out there that's really cool. And obviously, I know I'm not a pioneer.

There's been tons of women's wrestling show. but for television women's wrestling, it's a different space. So I'm excited. So what exactly does the title executive producer mean? Because that's not a title we hear in wrestling that often. Yeah. Well, and it was ironic that Billy chose that, like when he said it that way, because I go, like, you know that a lot of people aren't going to understand what executive producer

means. Like they just hear the word produce and they go like, oh, yeah, she's going to, you know, help put the show together. And it's like, no, you have all, like, the responsibility is like completely on my shoulders. And I'm so grateful that Billy trusts me to put that responsibility on my shoulders as like creating this brand creating. So it's my, it's mine, my little baby thing, you know, and I've been like really leaning on like I'd really like to put a space together where I have a powerful group of women that have been there, have done that, got a T-shirt and

knows what it takes to make money in this business to help lead the future. Because you have, you like I only had a handful of people to really help me with that. And I think once I, I had that core group of people like women like that to help lead me, I grew so much so quickly. And it's just nice to be able to help to provide that platform for girls. Yeah. Yeah. Are you planning to be booked on this show? I mean, I'm not a mark, Chris. I'm not going to sit there and put myself on top on my own show. Come on. Who does that? Who wouldn't want to see that though? Everybody does that, don't think? This is how wrestling works. is how wrestling works. I didn't, I don't have any, like, I don't really have any intentions of

working on the show. I'll probably, like, come out and say, because I really want to focus on the show. And I want this show to be a success. And I'm going to be in gorilla on the headset, running and talking and doing all these things. I can't perform that job to the best of my abilities and be out there, you know, wrestling at the same time. I just feel like it would be, it blurs, the lines, you know, like I'm not saying I won't wrestle. And obviously, I'm still an independent contractor. I could do all kinds of things. I can still wrestle. I'm pretty good at it. Last time I checked, I'm all right at it. We're very good at it. Thank you. Thank you. Sometimes we forget, so it's nice to be reminded. I mean, the industry has changed, I feel like, so much since you got into it,

especially in terms of women's wrestling. What would you say have been the biggest shifts that you've seen in the course of your career? You know, I feel like it's all gone through ebbs and flows, you know, like I've watched wrestling and the women in the industry, and it's always done this kind of, we take it seriously and then it dies back down and then it's like novelty brawn panties, like T&A kind of. And then it takes back up and it's back about the wrestling and then we go back down and it's going to be divas and this and that and the third. And then we take it back up and it's about the wrestling. But now we've taken it back up and it's about the wrestling. And there's like a little, but it's not the best. But it's not the best.

big, it's not like the roller coaster, it's just like little ripples, you know, which is cool to see. But I think everyone and every company is really stepped up in developing their women's division, but honestly because it's because they have no choice because the women are so good now. Whereas before you might only have a handful of really good female talent, now there's an ocean of female talent out there that can go, you know, and that's the real different maker. but I think that's a testament to all that groundwork and all that pavement treaded, you know, by every single female before us, before myself. And, you know, that did that because it's taken a long time to get to the space where it's

like people go like, no, women's wrestling actually kicks ass. Like, it's a, you know. Was there, like, when you were coming up, was, were women being trained differently than the men were being trained? Um, no, because I only trained with men. There wasn't any women wrestling, like, there was no, females in my training class. There's none. And then it wasn't until

I was about a year and a half in the business. And then I'm, except for the one like the girlfriend, but she was only a manager, you know, and come out, like, if she wasn't really training, she just came out with her boyfriend on the shows, you know? So it's just like there wasn't a whole lot of women training to be a wrestler. If they were training to be anything, it was a ballet or, you know, something like that.

So I only, I was only training with, men. So I had to learn how to work like the guys. Like I had to learn how to wrestle like the guys because that's who were teaching me, you know. And it took me a minute actually to realize like, hey, I need to wrestle a little like I need to throw in my femaleisms because that's what makes me different to wrestle like a female. I feel like there's a real art to being able to go like the boys, but remembering that you're a woman and throwing those female aspects in there because that's what makes us different and that's what makes it unique. And I've been like,

I don't know if you've ever been in a bar fight, Chris. I mean, I don't know if I want to get into the details here. We won't go into the details. We won't go into the details. But men and women fight very, very differently when it comes to real fighting. Right.

Like you guys don't like go clawing at the eyes or like snatching weeds or anything like that or picking up bottle. Well, you might pick up a bottle. Yeah. But women are nasty when they fight. You know what I mean? Like, they get vicious.

Like when they're really fiery red, hot, there is no telling what we might do, you know. So that's just that unpredictability about us, you know, it's hormones or whatever you want to call. You know, you talk about these shifts and these ebbs and flows. When would you say would be the biggest shift that you noticed where things trended up and didn't really trend down that much? The women's wrestling matters movement, I think, was the big shift. shift. It was the real awakening moment of that awareness moment because I felt like it always been a thing and there had been some groundbreaking stuff that had happened before that, whether it was Trish and Lita, main event in Raw, or there was like so much stuff that had

happened at Trish and I at WrestleMania, you know, like that was like really like a cool, like that story had so much investment. So I felt like there was already the swelling, the swelling that had been happening and then we like give them a little and then we take it away. And then we let them have it a little bit and we take it away. But at that moment, I felt like it was trying to be taken away or start. And the people were like, no, no, I don't like this. Yeah. You know, I don't like this.

This is not cool. Like, this is not how we see women anymore. It's, you know, it's a new age. It's a new dawn. So, yeah, that was a real impactful moment. And I think it was a real, like, awakening moment for every company to kind of step up and start presenting women in a different level and a different aspect and start taking them seriously, you know?

So yeah. Look, NWA seems like the perfect place for you to land since, you know, someone who lives in your house is very involved in NWA. He's very, very involved. He's very, very involved. But I felt like that was the key element of me not just going over to the NWA. And obviously, I'm not, you know, I haven't signed with the NWA. I'm partnering with the NWA. So there's a different element for me, you know, because I think that, you know, Billy and Nick and everyone involved at NWA have worked. so hard and I've been able to see that from the sidelines and watch it and support it. And I feel like they've done so much to bring that brand up in a space. But as you know, when you're married to someone and you want to be, you know, mesh together, but sometimes he's worked so hard to separate himself and to redevelop himself, especially after like Magnus and all these other things to come over here and he's killing it. Like absolutely killing it.

probably the best, best body of work of his career. And I felt like a weird space of going like, okay, I'll just, you know, I could show up, but I guess I could be at the NWA too.

And I love how they present the show. Like, I love how they present wrestling. I feel like it's so different than what everybody else is doing. It's that throwback feel. It's what I grew up on, like that type of wrestling that I grew up on.

And I love the promos and just the characters. It's awesome. It's awesome to see. And it's something I definitely like, you know, it resonates with me as a wrestling fan. But yeah, so I've known Billy for a long time, though. Like, I've known Billy probably longer than I've known my husband.

You know, it's crazy to think that way. But we have always remained friends. And so I've always been, like, had a serious sense of admiration for someone who, in my space, like I've tried to cross over into music. And I've done, like, some acting, but, like, I know how hard it is to try to cross over from one genre to another and be taken seriously. So for Billy, and that's the kind of irony of the twists of fate with us, is like for him to come from music and then crossover and wrestling and then build this

and bring this back to life like he has. And they have so much. Like it's been really, really cool to see because a lot of people aren't that successful in doing that, you know? Yeah. A little sidebar here. What's your favorite Smashing Pumpkin song? Oh, my God.

We were just having this conversation the other day. and he was like, really? Bullet with butterfly wings. The world is a lambire. Do you want to know why? Please. No, there's tons of, like, there's so many good ones, right?

Like, there's just a, yeah, there's so many good ones. Yeah. You would think it was like 1979, because I was like, I was born. We don't need to talk about that, but I know, that's a good one.

That song is like, it's just the soundtrack of nostalgia. It is. It's a good. There's so many, right? Like he's just a musical genius. It makes me angry sometimes. So why is it bullet with butterfly wings?

Okay. So the reason why is because when I was growing up, we didn't have cable television in Montpelier, Virginia. So my stepbrother would, when he was home visiting his mom, he would tape MTV for me. So that is like, and my sister and I, so that was my first experience of music videos of Yo, Yo MTV Raps of music videos.

And that was the very first Smashing Pumpkins video. That was my first introduction to Smashing Pumpkins. That was the first one I ever saw was on a VHS tape in my living room just going, what is this? Like, what is this? And so that's why I think it will always resonate with me. And that, like, that's probably my favorite song. Because I can go back to that moment of like when I was first introduced to music

videos. Yeah. When I interviewed him, he said that people call him the Rat in a Cage guy. That song. He is a legit rock star. Yeah. He actually told me a cool story, the backstory, because I don't think that he was absolutely in love with that song. And he ended up going with that song. I'll let him tell you that story, I guess, one day, because I don't want to get it wrong. But I think that he wasn't going to lead with that song. That wasn't his pick for like this lead song. And he just put his trust in the guy that was like, no, trust me. kid, you know, because that was like a big breakout song for them. I don't want to misquote him or tell his story, but he was, we were talking about that. I was like, because he was like, oh, you know, we were talking about this exact same thing. And I was like, yeah, that was the first time I saw music videos. And that was like one of the first, flashing pumpkins video I ever. And I was like, these guys are cool. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you spent so much of your career in WWE that I assumed, I think a lot of other fans assumed that you would end your career there.

How surprised were you to be part of this recent round of releases? Well, I think surprise is a word that I don't throw around. I'm never surprised at anything. Like, nothing surprises me really anymore. I had, I guess, you know, it's hard to have expectations, right? Because nothing ever goes according to your plan. but I really thought that I would, I thought I would wrap my career there. And I thought I was like so grateful to be able to go back and have the opportunity to kind of wrap up my story there and kind of bow out in a good graces kind of way because I felt like the first time I left was on such weird terms. You know?

So, and I did some amazing stuff when I came back. I really did. But it was, it wasn't shocking because I kind of was in the space where I felt it kind of coming. And I can't explain it. I can't explain why. just because I'm a weird person. But I kind of felt it already coming, but it was just like disheartening.

You know, it just was disappointing, I should say, more so than anything. How different is this release from the other release that you had? I think, well, I'm a, you know, I've been through a lot more since I have been then.

And I think that that Mickey James in 2010 was in a very, like, weird space with Mickey, James. Like she was in a bad space with Mickey James. And it's crazy to think that after the amount of success that I had had had there, but I just had so much personal stuff going on that it really started to affect me. And I was just burning the candle at both ends in the middle. And I dedicated to everything. All my eggs were in the wrestling basket, right? Like my whole life was wrestling, wrestling, wrestling. And I'd really like only valued myself according to how the company valued me.

It was just like that kind of mentality that was just grown up. I was young and I was hungry. and I just loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it, loved and not do anything for wrestling and whatever you want. And, you know, that kind of super crazy wrestling obsessed. This is my dream. This is my passion. I'm just grateful to be here. And so when that was taken from me, in a sense or whatever, however you want to slice it, I was devastated. I was absolutely, it came me.

Like I remember when Impact called me, you know, Dixie called me and I was like, Dixie, I just don't want to. Like, I'm so heartbreak and I have zero desire to do anything right now. Like, I don't want to do anything. And she kept calling. She had Kurt call me. She had, like, Kurt was the one who actually talked me into going to Impact. It was Kurt who called me that talked me into it because he's just amazing.

And it's Kurt Engel, you know, but no disrespect to Dixie. Like, I love Dixie too. She's awesome. But it was like I knew Kurt from your time in WWE. I did. I did. And then, like, it was just like a real like, honest pep talk and like a reality check for me from him because to get his perspective and for me, I'm like, I, when I think of one of the greatest wrestlers in the world for sure on checks every box all the line, I think Kurt Engel is like one of the greatest of all times. And so for him to like understand where I was coming from, but also have a relatable answer to that was really, really cool. Kind of like opened back up my eyes because I was just so,

sad, you know, it was really, really sad. And they're like, this time I wasn't as sad. I was just more disappointed, you know, because I'm like, you can reproach, because now we've been through things and you know how the business works. And now it's not my absolute everything. All my eggs aren't in that basket anymore. I'm an entrepreneur. I built, you know, I'm doing all these things. I'm a mom. I'm a singer. I try to do these things. I try to incorporate them in when they're accepted and when they're not. That's cool too. Like, yeah. So I feel like I approached it this time. I'm a lot. I'm for from a more adult grown standpoint. Yeah.

But yeah. When you were released in 2010, did your stuff arrive in a trash bag then, too? It did. Wow. It did. And I said that. And I said that. And I was like, I guess, you know, we, this is a crazy thing because I think that, you know, the fans reminded me almost.

Like, I kind of posted that picture and not in jest, I would say, but more as a, oh, yeah, this is a. this is still a thing. This is kind of on. You're kind of saying like, I'm used to this. This is what I expected. Because we become so desensitized to, because we've put up with so much crap in wrestling that you forget that

because we live in our own, like it's a bubble, you know, we live in our own world and we like all these things that I forgot how, that that was offensive. I forgot that it was actually, you know what I mean? I was just more like,

hey, yeah, this is not cool, but okay, whatever, you know, but I also, And there was more to that than that, too, because I also rewind it back to 10 years, you know, the 2010 Mickey James and where I was mentally in that space.

And when that happened that time, the first time, I was, it was, it was like the stab in the heart to my already open wound. You know what I mean? Like, that was a real, like, low blow. Because I genuinely took it then as they think I'm trash. They're throwing me out with the garbage. like after obviously I hadn't like done you know what I mean I was with the company at that point besides developmental on television for like you know four years five years at that point but for me I go like they just think I'm like I can't believe it they just like are throwing me out with the garbage and they

think I'm trash and it's just all these things all these thoughts these weak thoughts were running through my head but they're real thoughts and if you're already broken down they can really devastate a person And so it reminded me of that. And so when I'm thinking about it, then I'm thinking about that list of people who got released right beside me. And I'm like, I see my name on the bag. And I'm like, well, that's because that's defining

which bag is going in which box. You know, so then I'm thinking about whatever. Like I'm thinking about those girls going, oh my God, they've got to be heartbroken over this. But they're never going to say anything. Just like 10 years ago, Mickey would have never said anything because I would never want to, mess up an opportunity for the future because there's always, you know, an opportunity to do

something in the future. There's always an opportunity to do something, a second chance or something, right? Yeah. But this Mickey James just don't give a shit. I'm just kidding, but I'm not. Like, I just, yeah, I know. I believe you. Was there a moment?

I say that in a loving space. I do have nothing, but like, I am super grateful for my career and the ability to have been able. And I could not have done that without WWE. Like, they have. have give, like, and they say that, like, oh, we give opportunities. You do. They do. Give a lot of, like, people like Mickey James would have not been a star coming from Montpelier, Virginia. Well, maybe not me. I'm just kidding. But you know what I mean? If it wasn't, you were born, you were born to be a star. Come on. Was. Yeah. I don't know about that.

Was there a moment, though, before you sent that tweet where you went, should I really do this? I mean, look, you're a future Hall of Famer. Or should. Sure. And this could maybe make them go, huh, we were going to put Mickey in the Hall of Fame one day. Then she kind of said this mean thing about us. Yeah, but this is, this is silly. Yeah, there was actually. There was. I had it. I was like, I started to, and that's it. Because I was getting ready for this, the photo shoot for my new song. I was, we had the photo shoot planned. And I was like getting ready, hair and makeup, all these things. And then the box arrives, you know. I actually got two boxes that day. One of the boxes arrived. after I'd already gone to do the shoot and all that stuff. So here I am getting all my stuff together to go do the shoot. And then the box arrives. And I'm like, you know how like just like I'm like, so I open it?

And I'm like, motherfuckers. Like really? Of course. You know. And don't get me wrong. Like I don't want it to come off as bitter because I'm not bitter. And I hate like, this is one of the reasons why I avoided doing media for a long. Because I'm like, I don't want to just be the trash, the bag lady.

Like or be known for the trash or that. That can't be a defining. thing of Mickey James. You know what I mean? It's just what it did do though, and I'm great for that, is that nobody else will get their shit in a trash bag. Yeah, you definitely created some change here. I think the next, that next, this last

set around, like round of releases are probably getting all their stuff in Gucci, you know? Nicely folded, yes. Folded with the, with the paper, you know, in between to divide, thank you letter,

you know, all kinds of things. So how shocked? Give you a gift card to Ruth Chris. How shocked were you that it did actually create some sort of change? I was pretty shocked because there was even a minute where after I'd already sent it and I was kind of like, okay, done, whatever it is, what it is, where I sat and then like as I was getting ready to, you know, leave, I go, maybe I, you know you second guess yourself. You're like, because I never want to come off in an ugly space or like just, you know, in an ugly space, right?

So I was like, maybe this is too much. Maybe I'm going to come off as like the bitter one. And I'm not bitter. I'm not bitter. I'm better. I'm not bitter. I'm better. Right.

But can we say that? Can we say that out loud? I like that. Yeah. Don't be bitter. Be better. Yeah. Yeah.

But so I thought I was like, oh, I should probably delete this. Like maybe I should delete it. Because I'm still company, make a company girl, Mickey James thinking out loud. Like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. I was. Oh. you know, and then I was like, no, fuck it. Like, no, I'm leaving it because one, it's kind of funny.

And two, they need to know. Because I don't think this is something that way at the top, they know that this thing is happening. This is a down-the-latter thing that has been happening and is a cultural thing and it was just a thoughtless thing. And that's just it. It was a thoughtless thing. Yeah.

Well, they made it seem like Mark Carrano was going, all right, bag up Mickey's stuff in a trash bag and send it out to her. Yeah. And, I mean, he ended up taking the brunt of this, but you made it sound like that wasn't the person that actually was responsible for this. Yeah. I mean, I don't think that me getting my stuff in a trash bag was the point where I felt, like, when I looked at and I said it's on par, because it's on par of how I felt for like the last

two years. Yeah. Because I've been so, I've tried, like, I tried everything in my space to pitch, to do. and I felt like I was cut off at every turn or it was turned into some kabuki, like weird thing that was kind of twisted to make it look like it was on me. And like there was all these weird things that happened.

And I can't go, like I'm not even going to go into all of it. But there was a lot of things that happened in the last two years that really made me feel that I was being purposely humbled along the way. You know what I mean? Like, no, we, don't want to like and no you don't really deserve a retirement match just stepping and it wasn't like i was upset about stepping into a producer role because i love the idea of helping develop talent i don't

want to wrestle forever this was when i sought sought out on this run with w e this was my last run in wrestling that's kind of in mickey james plan this was the perfect parlay and i can go over all i want it was like this one like little moment i didn't need to win the championship can i build someone on the way out? Can I put somebody over? Can I do something that means something that's magic? That then I can bow out gracefully and then I can parlay over in that. In between that checks and trying to balance or like compromise. I just felt like there was zero interest and then, you know, which is totally cool. Like I'm, you know what I mean? It's totally cool. Get it. But then even sitting back and then trying different things of commentary or, you know, going to NXT and just trying out the trainer role and sitting back there and then constantly

like pitching this idea for this women's thing and and really being made to feel like it not that it's not like women's wrestling isn't appreciated it's just more of like that's that's a little bit too much you know like that's just it's not viable from a company standpoint you know like yeah and for me when I'm like well then what have I dedicated to 20 years of my life to this business for if women's wrestling isn't a marquee thing, doesn't make money or whatever, because I set out to change the business and to help grow it and to make it better. And it'll be really cool. We're in a space now where people are very receptive to that. And they are almost demanding it. And they really, really want it.

And it would be cool because we have so many stars. And there are so much talent out there. That's just it, even on the indie scene, that we have our hands on that a lot of them we're not even using and it can really grow them and develop them and give them a chance to sit under these umbrellas of legends who have done it. You know, like there's, there was a huge opportunity to capitalize on the movement. And it was just kind of like, yeah. The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S. soccer podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host. Megan Clarenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup.

Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim. And they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures. We're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Hencoe.

Follow and listen on your favorite platform. It seems really unfair that you may be considered, quote, unquote, old as a woman's wrestler. But then there's men who are about the same age as you who are considered in their prime. Brock Lesner or Randy Orton or Seamus, you know, that we could go on and on and on. It just doesn't seem fair. Well, yeah, I mean, it isn't fair. But I think that's always been a culture. Like, I remember when I first came on, they were like, oh, by 35 women are done in this business.

Like there's like, and women also had much like a shorter careers, like a five-year career for a woman on television was a long time, you know? And maybe that has something to do with the fact that I've been on television and stayed kind of relevant for the last 15 years in some capacity. And there's probably a couple, couple factors. You know what I mean? And I'm all about like building to the future and stuff, but you can't shit on your former champions and the history that was made in those things in the process, right? Like there's an art to it. And, you know, maybe it's because I'm a wrestler and I look at wrestling from, you know, a wrestler and a wrestler. wrestling fans perspective because I was also a fan. And I also am kind of like up on what's relevant

today in 2021, you know? And so I just kind of look at like how people's mindsets have changed. I mean, we have like J-Lo, one of the sexiest woman in the world and she's 50, you know, 50, 51, 50 now. Jennifer Anderson, same. And I like, we just don't look at age like that anymore. But in wrestling, it's still kind of, as we always have been a little late to the party. Yeah. And that's okay. I was just like, I don't, I couldn't, I could never wrap my head around why. And I even said, like, I don't think this is funny and I don't think it's entertaining

to get, like, would you have given like one of your male champions who were, are older than me, by the way, by all of them almost? Would you have given them depends on a walker? Like, that's kind of, it's bullshit. It's not funny. And I can't believe that you guys think it's funny. They're so out of touch. You don't even realize you're out of touch.

And I was so offended. And I said that I was offended, but I'm also a professional. And so I did it anyway because I'm like, and as a pro, you go like, well, fine. I'll just do it and we'll see what the people say. Right. Yeah. That's kind of like where I go. Like I try to speak my claim, my truth in the sense of what I feel and what I think.

And if people listen, great. If they don't, then I'm like, all right, well, let's do it. Let's do it and see what happens. And nine times out of ten, I was right every single time. Yeah. But. But it's already happened, though. It's already out there.

But it's late then because it's already happened. But it's like almost had to do it just to prove my point, you know? And that's a crappy place because I'm like, I feel like you should trust me enough at this point to know that I'm not an idiot. And that I'm not just like looking at it from my own perspective and my own lens. I'm looking at it from the lens of our audience and where they're at now, you know? And this is why, you know, empower NWA's event is going to be so great because you're looking at it through a completely different lens. Yeah, well, and too, and no disrespect, because I am, you know, I approached my career with such gratitude and I am thankful and I am humble, but you can only be humble for so long, you know, and you can only be humbled for so long until you go like, no, actually, I am pretty awesome and I have done a lot and I deserve the respect. And if I'm not, if that's not going to be given to me, then I don't deserve to be in a place where I'm not getting it in that space, you know.

And if I have a chance or an opportunity to do something that can change that and change that mentality. So other people, by the time, you know, a Sasha or a Bailey gets to this space, that perhaps they're treated with a little bit more grace. You know what I mean? Because they deserve it. And they absolutely deserve it. And that's not me being shitty. That's just me being honest. Yeah.

I'm really curious. What was Nick's reaction when he found out when you told him that you were released? We were sitting outside. We were by the pool because we were actually looking at calling the pool people to figure out how we were going to get this pool open, you know, and like figure it because I was struggling with the pump. That's so weird. But I'm like, we're sitting there and then Johnny called me and I saw the phone ringing

and I was also like in this weird because I told you, I was like, I kind of felt it at WrestleMania when I was there, not at NXT. When I went to WrestleMania, I had this weird thing kind of, like, it was just like a weird energy in the locker room. And I just finished talking to Foxy. And she had to go up. She got up to go do something or whatever. And I was just kind of sitting there and like looking and observing the locker room.

And I just had this like feeling. I go like, this is the last time I'm going to be in the locker room in the space. Like it's going to be the last time that I'm going to be a talent in the locker room. Wow. Just enjoy it. Embrace it. Take it for what it is. it is what it is, right? And so it was just really, really weird. So it wasn't like, I was shocked

at any, but I wasn't heartbroken either. I just kind of was like, I had the conversation with Johnny, and he was polite and he was nice. And he was like, you know, I hate to be the big, like the one to say this. And I'm like, you always are, but hate to be the one to say this because he was the same person who let me go the first time, you know. And I love Johnny. Don't get me, like, it's not even a thing. It was just like, yeah, like, I've always been able to be blunt and honest with Johnny. You know, like, he knows that I don't come from a malicious space. But, yeah, I just kind of was like, and then I hung up the phone and I just kind of sat there for a second. I'm going like, yeah.

And then Nick kind of looks over and he's like, because he's doing whatever with the pool. And I'm like, I just got released. And he was just like, he was shook. He was a bit like, like, are you okay? Are you okay? and I go, yeah, I'm fine. I'm good. I'm good.

No, I was like, I mean, we all go through our processes differently, but in that moment, like, obviously I got sad about it and I went through the whole and I was like, oh. Yeah. You know, but I really was like, hmm, because I think it was that thing of going like, I knew. Yeah. It's like when things feel weird with the boyfriend or girlfriend and then they send you the, we have to talk. text and you're like, hmm. And even though that wasn't sent to you, or we have to talk text, yet sounds like what it felt like when you were at WrestleMania. Right, right, right. It was. It was kind of, we need to talk.

Yeah, and that's never good. No, it's never good. At what point in your career did you start to think about life after wrestling? Before I went back the first time. Okay. And that's when you were all in on music. that's when I was really, I had, because I had walked away from Impact at that time and I'd had Donovan and I didn't, I wasn't in a space where I really wanted to go back to Impact. Like, it wasn't like, I was like, I wasn't against it, but I was also like, I don't know, like, kind of, I don't know.

Because there was like a little bit of weirdness or whatever there, but I don't, I don't know. And then I was sitting there with Nick and I'm like, you know, I don't want to end my career on the end, Indies. you know, like I've seen, I've been in wrestling so long. I've seen so much. And I was like, I just, I think I'd rather just kind of bow out gracefully now, like quiet. Like I didn't want this to be my retirement, but I think I'd rather just stop wrestling all together. And then just do the music and just do appearances and maybe do something now and then if it meant something or if it was cool. But I don't want to slowly fizzle away, you know, like,

you know, and it's, what is it, Randy the ramp? Yes, from the movie The Wrestler, yeah. Yeah, I just, I was like, oh, maybe it's time, like, maybe it's time. Like, clearly, WW, because at that point, I was like, clearly WWE isn't interested. Like, I'd reach out to them several times. Didn't really want to go back to impact. And then the only other option was like ring of honor at that time. And I was just like, that felt like I was going backwards.

Yeah. And I'm not a person who goes backwards. It's always forward, forward, forward, and up. Never sideways, right? Like, that's kind of how my mind thinks. And I just was like, okay, well, it's next chapter time then. And it's ironic when you finally let something go and just kind of go like, all right, that was when I got the call.

That was when I got called to go back. And it's easy to think about. So, yeah. I mean, and look at all the things that you've done since then. Yeah. I have. I have. And I have to remember that sometimes.

You know, you have to. remember about all the things that you have done and all the instead of like all the things that you didn't get to do you know sometimes we we because we have so many expectations or we have like this vision and we have this plan but nothing ever really goes according to our plan i don't care how well you try to like doesn't like we get all these curve balls thrown at us mine tend to smack me right in the face um but yeah like it's just i've just learned to realize like i i need to I have to stop trying to controlling the direction and just trust the direction. You know what I mean?

I mean, all you can control is your reaction to what's happening to you. 1,000%. You can't control what's going to happen. All you can control is your reaction to the things that are happening. Right. And I'm not like hard done by or like this victim or anything like that. You know what I mean? I'm too tough to be that.

But you're so right in that. Like you really, the only person or the only thing that you have control over, is your own self, you know, and then it's hard to think like that. You know, it's hard to be in that. Yeah. If you're still trying to control other people's thoughts or opinions of you or. Yeah. What do you think is the best piece of advice you've received? It doesn't need to be in wrestling, just in general. What's the best piece of advice that you've received? Um, oh, God. Oh, God. There's so many. Um, I think, I don't even know how to answer that question. I'll be honest. I'm like, God, there's been so many. You know, it would have to be along the lines of,

and I don't know if I'm going to get it worded, right, like, of that space of you can't, you can't, like, live your life based on other people's, you know, opinions of you, whether it be of your value of what, you know, like a lot of it is like of what you're worth. Like you can't base, and I spent a lot of time and I think that's the business kind of breeds that because we're always searching for the opinions of, you know, a company or bosses. And was that a good, like, was that okay? Was it good? All these other things.

But you really can't. You can, because you in your heart, you know, whether it was good or bad, like, it never really lies to you. You know, you can lie to it, but it doesn't lie to you. Like, you know if it was good. You know if it was. So, yeah, you can't base your whole life based on our perception or opinions of you or your value.

What about Nick? What do you think is the best thing, the biggest thing you've learned from your relationship, your friendship, your partnership with Nick? Compromise. Compromise, which is not something I'm particularly good at. I'll be honest. He's probably better at it than I am. Yeah. He's a kind British gentleman, right? He is. He is. He is. I mean, there's certain things that he doesn't really like to compromise on as well but the art of compromise and i think you know especially as being a mom of i think that this is such a self-serving business that we have to be so selfish for so long like just being mom for now for the last seven years six going on seven years it's really changed my thinking of like it's not about me it's not about me even the empower it's not about me it's about the

future. It's about the women. It's about all of us. Like, that's a weird space because that's what it's ingrained in us in order to be successful. The only person who's going to look out for you is you and you got to protect yourself and you got to make sure that they're not going to screw you over. You got to make sure that like stay tough, thick skin and all these things. Don't let it affect you. Don't show your weaknesses. All these things. And you're constantly like, oh, wrap so damn tight. Like, I swear I'm tough, you know, but. Yeah. Yeah. Compromise. What about from Donovan, from your son. What's the biggest thing he's taught you? To laugh and like just to laugh

and like enjoy it. Enjoy those little moments. So you know what I mean? I think because children look at things with way different eyes, right? Because it's untainted. It's not screwed up. I hope it's not screwed up anyway. That's what I'm trying to do is not screw it up. But it's such an innocent view. And, you know, as we all, all go through life, which just like crap happens as it all does. And we forget that how amazing life really is. Like, you know, and so even when he was super young to like see the birds fly or see a plane fly or do these things, like all, every little thing was cool and it was awesome and it was magic when you just forget to take all that in sometimes, you know? Yeah. And even like as he's growing,

there's still things like when he sees him for the first time or as he's experienced how excited he gets and how happy he gets. And it's like they just live fully in that emotion. And it's really, really cool to see because we as adults don't do that. We like play it down. Yeah. We put it down all the time of like the amount of excitement or the amount of joy or the

amount of sadness or whatever. We're just scared to tap into those because we don't want to be vulnerable, you know, but. Yeah. It's like truly childlike wonder. Yeah. It's amazing.

Exactly what it is. And also like childlike excitement. Like nothing is better. And you're a mom. I am not a parent. but when you see that genuine smile on your son's face when he's experiencing something for the first time, and their little hands go like that

because they're just screaming with joy. Like, who does this anymore? Nobody. I don't even think I do this ever anymore. Maybe we should start to do that more often. I'm so excited. Yeah. That's how I felt when you first came on the Zoom call.

I'm like, yeah, it's Mickey James. You've seen it like Maracas or something. bottles of champagne. Yeah. I mean, when I was on your show, we were drinking. We should have done that this time. Sipsies. We were drinking some delicious fresh fine wine.

That was. What did you think of that wine? Did you like it? I love it so much that I just placed an order yesterday, actually. Are you kidding? I'm dead serious. That's awesome. Find me another, and this is not a promo for fresh vine wine, by the way, everyone.

Find me another wine, though, that's lovely. low sugar and low carb and gluten-free. Lutein-free, keto-friendly? You could drink like seven bottles of that and not get hung over. Yeah, yeah. Maybe six. It's a really good tasting wine. Hey, I know a guy that kind of helps with that company.

Yeah, you know a guy. I know a guy. No, they're like, they've sent me. And the cool thing is that they deliver the boxes straight to your house and it's all packed. Yeah. Bottle box. You know. Again, this is not a promo for them, but it's so good.

I'm not trying to sell them, but they're pretty awesome. But speaking of the Gaugh ladies, your recent single is grown-ass women. I love that you're still doing music right now with everything that you have going on. I love it. Thank you. Yeah, it's grown-ass women. It's, you know, it's also, you probably wouldn't realize this, but it's also the intro to Gaugh TV to our show.

Yeah. Because I had started working on this song a while back ago, and I was like originally pitching it to try to work with this rap artist, this female rap artist, to do. kind of some cool things. So I really only had the hook written and like the this cool intro. But then I met Chapel Heart, this band out of Mississippi. There's CMT's next one in a country. And I just fell in love with them. And I'm like, this, this, because I've just kind of been sitting on it. And I made it the intro for the gaw TV, but I've still been sitting on my eyes, you know how you have this like, itching feeling? I'm like, this song is meant to do some cool stuff. Like, this is a good song.

Like I know that this is going to be a great song. It's got a good purpose. It's got a good message. I just need the right people. Like it needs a right. I could have done it myself, but it wouldn't be as powerful as it is with these ladies. And so my friend Sean, who's the producer on the record and also is a co-writer on the song. And he introduced me to them.

And I was like, we got to write this song together. Like it's such like a statement, you know. And then I was in their music video. You can have Jolene. And so then we got there, did that and kept writing, went in the studio and then recorded it. and it's amazing.

Like the feedback has been nothing. And I really feel like it's like a female power anthem. You know, like it's just like screams empowerment. It's like a summer anthem. It's really like a bat. Like it's an amazing. And I don't say here's there. I don't say this about my music.

Like I don't say. It's damn catchy. It is damn catchy. It's damn catchy. And I don't like I listen to my music a lot of times. I'm just sitting there like my matches. I'm just sitting there going. I'm,

I'm picking it. all of it apart, you know, but this song, I'm like, no, this sounds a good song. You're living in Nashville, right? I am. Well, outside of Nashville, yes. You're basically in Nashville. In the outskirts, you know. So when you live in Nashville and you're surrounded by singers, songwriters, producers,

don't you feel that energy of like, I need to be making music? Right. Yeah. And that's all like, like, because I've been kind of at home, you know, for a while now through all this pandemic, as we all have. But that's kind of what I devoted. That was what helped keep me saying, aside from creating the Gaugh TV show was,

I just need a right, right, right, right, right. And that's what I did. Like I live in Los Angeles now, and there's this energy here for like television and movies. Like everybody here is associated with business in some sort of way. It's that in Nashville. Like it's Nashville is that for music. Yeah, it's all music.

But it's also like there's so much. And it's not just country music. Yeah, yeah, it's just music. And we're getting a lot of L.A. transplants. I don't know if you're aware of this. Well, it's a lot cheaper to live there than it is here. It is, it is. But not that much.

I mean, I'm like, the prices here is the fastest growing city in the U.S., like Nashville. They can't keep up with it, the roads and all this. I mean, I love the city, but it's so eclected because it has so many people from all walks of life. And it's not just country music. It's rock music. It's rap music. It's art. It's Vanderbilt doctors and these like all these things. It's just like this eclectic

group of people and there. It's just, it's a really cool town. I mean, it's like still got that old school like people still say ma'am and sir, but yet it's a cool vibrant city. I really like I love Richmond and I love my home. And I will always be a Virginia girl. But at the same time, Nashville is like my second home. I went to Nashville for the first time last month. And I went I went out on Broadway. I should have called you. You didn't call me, bro. Yeah, I mean, you were too busy, you know, being a musician. That was mommy. I was probably mommy.

That's right. Mom and so hard. Fed in by 8.30. We went to like five different bars on a random Wednesday on Broadway. And every single person that was on stage there could have been signed to a record label deal like that. They're all so talented. I know. I know. That's what, I mean, Nash, that is the one thing is that you're a small fish and a huge ocean down there. It's like you really just hope that the right person is in that bar wherever you're playing or you get just that that's all you really, really need. Like it's a lot of people trying to make it here.

And I was very blessed to have the platform from wrestling where people actually paid attention and go like, oh, she's doing a record. And obviously my fans all love my stuff and they're going to download or whatever. But even get that airplay or that, you know, from the country music world. That's been a journey in itself. And it's just now, you know, what, 10 years later since I put out my first record that I've really started to gain some real traction. And people are like, now it's not just like, oh, that wrestling girl that's doing the music because I've been down here and kept grinding, kept doing it. Like to prove that, no, it's not like a novelty thing. I actually really, really love it.

Like I don't have any expectations of being the next Carrie Underwood. I just like to do it. Like, I just love music. and I've always loved music and I've always wanted to do it, so I'm just going to do it. Yeah. Who's on your playlist right now? Oh, God. And this could be across all genres.

Yeah, well, let's just have a look-ski show. Oh, pull it up. Let's pull it up. What's the last thing I downloaded? I got a little, oh, God. I got some crazy stuff on here. I'll bring it. The more embarrassing, the better.

I mean, I've been listening to BTS a lot recently. It's a sad state of affairs. I have everything from like Disney songs on here to like hard gangster rap. Like, I listen to a lot of rap when I work out. Okay. Like who? It's usually like throwback rap. Like, you know.

But then stuff, you know, I like da baby, you know. Love da baby. Love the baby. No, I'm like trying to find like last downloaded here. Okay. Yeah, I'm taking to you're like, okay, this is too much now. No, no, I'm excited.

And everybody is on the edge of their seat right. Her? Have you heard of her? Her? Her. You know who she is? Yes. Oh, yeah.

No, she's amazing. Okay. I have her. There's also, obviously, my song on there. Of course. Oh, how about? this song. I downloaded the other day.

It's I'm sitting there searching for myself. Is it a song about you? It's a song about me. Who is this guy? Johnny Mano. Well, somebody needs to let Johnny Mano know that you have heard his song,

Mickey James. I have heard his song. I have heard his song. What do you think of his song, Mickey James? It was good. It was interesting. It was interesting. It was It was good. He said some things. He said some things about me. I mean, it was all in a, I think it was meant to be in a very loving space and a very admirable. He has a big crush on you. He crushed. He thirsty. No, yeah. So Alabama shakes. They're huge. They're all mine. But I also have a lot of like old school stuff too. Like I have eagles and I have foreigner. I just love music. And I love. I have classical music on here. Like,

yeah, this is why my phone was never really allowed to be plugged up on shuffle to the locker room boom box because it was really, especially if I walked out of the room, I was terrified to walk out of the room because I did not know what was going to come up next. I completely agree with you. I mean, it could be like spoken Spanish because I'm sitting here like learning to learn Spanish on tape

or it could be from the Disney Princess's album. It could be a good day, a little ice cube. It could be a lot of things. It could be a little Jack White. I just don't know what's going to pop up. I really don't. I love it. We've covered a lot in this interview.

We have laughed. We have gotten very serious. Oh, it's so good. I always laugh with you. Me too. I always laugh with you. You're the best. I wish we could do this in person.

In fact, I should have done it when I was in Nashville. You should have. I really dropped the ball there. Negative. Huge ball drop. I want to have you and Nick on at the same time. We should do that. We will do that one in person.

Okay. We will do that one in person, perhaps in the week leading up to Empower. I would love that. Let's make it happen. Are you going to be great? I mean, if you'll have me. I might send you a little VIP selected ticket, like in a little envelope, like super pro fesh. Oh, my goodness.

You know? I mean, I do not be a producer of that show. Yes. Yes. I end every interview talking about gratitude. We've talked about it so much during this conversation, but I think it's such an important thing to, like, key in on in your life every single day.

So what are three things in your life right now, Mickey, that you're grateful for? My health, my family. And, I think my spirit. Like my spirit to like just keep doing the good, like just, you know, kick an ass. It's what you do. We love your spirit.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And we love you. Oh, I love you too. Thank you so much for coming on. I do the attitude of gratitude all the time. Like I'm super, you know, I think we've talked about that, all the L-O-A and like trying to just put it out

I love that kind of stuff. Same. Because I think that if you can focus on the things in your life that you have, rather than focusing on the things in your life that you don't have or maybe didn't go well for you, if you're focusing on the things that you have, how could you possibly be upset? Right. Well, I think too, I am very much in a space of like, you have to be grateful for what you have and thankful for what you have so you keep getting your blessings.

When you stop being thankful for all the things that you already have, because there's a lot of things that we all have. We all want more. We all dream big. Like, we all want a lot of things. But in that, if you want those things, you still have to be super grateful for what you already have or you'll stop getting those things because it's just all in your, it's like a, it's a real mental warfare, you know, because it's, it's a fine line, you know, you don't want complacency. But at the same time, I'm like, I got a roof over my head. My electricity is on. I got a beautiful home. I got a beautiful family. I got my mom's still kicking. My dad's still kicking. I love them so much. Like, yeah, it's you have to be. You have to be. Yeah. I think that like attracts like.

For sure. Being grateful for the things that you have, you're going to attract more things. So you can have more things. And if you don't, you'll just block them. You'll just block them because it's just almost like you're saying, I don't want these things. You know what I mean? Because I just, you know, I'm not grateful for what I have. So I can't take on any. more. You know, it's a weird dynamic. Yeah. That's a bit spiritual. It's a very spiritual space, I think. That was great. Mickey James, thank you so much. You're amazing. Thanks, Chris.

Well, there you have, my friends. Mickey James, so grateful to have her on the show. So grateful to have you listening to this episode and to every single episode. You could, of course, check out Gaw TV with Lisa Marie Varon and SoCalvow on YouTube or wherever you're listening to this podcast right now. Speaking of a podcast, if you don't subscribe yet to Insight, make sure to write that wrong right now by following or subscribing right this second. And you can listen to Mickey James' latest single called Grown-Ass Woman on your favorite music streaming platform. Snap a screenshot.

Let us know what stood out for you the most from this conversation. Share that photo on social media so we can retweet it and regram it. Mickey is at the Mickey James. I am at Chris Van Vleet. And we'll leave you with this great quote from Anthony DeMello talking about new beginnings and things ahead of you. Nobody is afraid of the unknown. What you really fear is loss of the known.

Be great. Be grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley?

How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this.

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