Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mike Chioda: The WWE Referee Of Our Childhood Has The BEST Stories!

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Mike Chioda (@mjcchioda) is a professional wrestling referee who is known for his 35 year career in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to talk about his legendary career and being the third man in the ring for matches like Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, 123 Kid vs. Razor Ramon and so many others. He talks about what goes into being a great referee, the cues he hears in his earpiece, being released from WWE, his time in AEW, working Ric Flair's last match and much more. Quote I'm thinking about: “Life isn't about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself.” - George Bernard Shaw Sponsors: FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Believe! So good to see you, my friends. Welcome back to another one on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for being with us.

And thank you for making Insight one of the top wrestling podcasts in the world. I'm always really grateful. You know that about me. I end every episode asking what's the three things that you're grateful for right now. And maybe it's because Thanksgiving's next week, but I'm feeling extra grateful for you and for how much the show has grown this year.

I mean, think about this. By you listening to the show, you've allowed me to live out my dream, and you've also allowed so many other people who work on the show to live out their dreams as well. Look, it's amazing that I get to do this, that I get to have these conversations with these incredible guests on the show, but can I ask for a favor? I don't really ever ask for much. But I can't tell you how much you can change the course of this podcast and the course of the guests that we can get on the show just by doing one simple thing. You know what it is. That one simple thing is clicking the follow button.

It helps the show more than I could ever explain. And the guests that we have here have continued to get better because of people like you who hit the follow button. And that brings us to today's episode. Man, what a day in Tampa this. was in the morning that day. So I flew in the night before. That morning, when I got settled in Tampa, I interviewed Rick Flair, then we drove to Clearwater Beach, interviewed Hulk Hogan, then went back to downtown Tampa, had a drink with Rick Flair, and also Mike Keota, because he was meeting

there, meeting me there for our interview. Then we did the interview with Mike Keota, went back to where Rick Flair was across the street, had another drink, had some food, What a day. What a day. And yes, that does link back to, it's because of people like you that follow the show, that have helped the show grow and get guests like that. Hulk Hogan, Rick Flair, and the referee of our childhood all in one day. Think about the career that Mike Keota had. He was in WWE for 35 years.

And he was the third man in the ring for some of the biggest matches or moments in WWE history. Rock versus Hogan, Kurt Angle versus Shane McMahon and the glass that wouldn't break, Kurt Engel versus Brock Lesnar and that shooting star press gone wrong. Eddie Guerrero versus Chris Benoit, the list goes on and on and on and on. We touch on a bunch of those during this conversation. And Mike is just so good at telling stories. And by the way, if you've never heard Mike Keota talk before, his voice is going to blow you away. I told him, I'm like, you sound like a mobster.

I'm like you're going to put a hit out on my life right now. I love that guy. You can find him on Twitter at MJC Kyoto. He's at mike.coma on Instagram. And please take a screenshot, tag us, and we'll share it out as you share it out. And you can tag me. I'm at Chris Famfleet. But man, what a good one.

Please enjoy this conversation with Mike Keota. We got the woo energy out here. Woo energy. I did. I just had Rick Flair sitting in this exact spot earlier today. Wow, that's awesome. So I feel like it makes sense that we're, this is the drink we were, this is so funny. This is the drink we were talking about.

Right. And I'm like, do you have one with you? I don't. Now we do. Now we do. Woo. Energy. Love it, man.

Yeah, I was just talking, sitting down with Rick a little while ago at the Pearl. So it was nice, actually, to catch up and see him since the last match I did with him. Do you keep in touch with a lot of wrestlers? Yeah, I do. I sure do. That's great. Yeah, Ray Mysterio. on and Jake Hager and so forth. So there's quite a few guys I still keep in touch with it.

I don't know if we need to keep this here the entire time. We love Rick Flair. Yeah, we do. And you can actually drink that if you want. That's right. One of the biggest things that came out of the last interview that we did. And again, thank you for your time on that one. It's so good to sit down with you a person. Yes, it is. It's finally great to meet you in person. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. One of the biggest things that came out of that is people were like, I've never heard my Kyoto's voice before. Wow. Yeah. And they're like, he sounds like a New York mob boss.

You know, it's not the first time I've gotten that. I get that. I started doing this podcast for Conrad Thompson on ad-free shows. Paul Bromwell, the host, and he's coached me through all this stuff. It's going on three years now. Yeah. And, you know, it's our show's doing great on ad-free and everything. We talk, you know, sports, wrestling, of course, sports, food, all the good places in the countries

and all the stuff that you try and all the food in. Yeah. And it's just gone so well. get so many, you know, like, oh, my God, you are you part of the mob boss? I mean, you know, I said, oh, well, my father was kind of over there in Jersey. He was kind of, okay. Eternal father was, my mom remarried when I was three, but my paternal father used to sing Purdue, and he had a very deep voice like me.

But when he sang, you know, he was all duop. And he was called, you know, was Joey Van and the Dupres. And, you know, my real name is Michael Joseph Kinsano. And then when I'm- sounds like a mob name for sure yeah kenzano that's sure you know it's uh it's almost like the cinsana wine but canzano and uh you know and then my mom remarried and uh i took on my father's named kiota when i was about 13 so i feel like every time you're starting a sentence i'm like you're gonna put a hit out on somebody or something like that nothing like that because i mean

the average wrestling fan has heard you say what do you say or one two three what do you say rock yeah what you say it wrong but that's really it yeah that's true i mean that's pretty much it and i you know i've only done maybe like an interview or here interview it was after the daniel brian and brock lesnar match i believe it was in l-a they said oh did we want to interview you for like you know 45 seconds to a minute i said yeah sure i said okay i said that's weird so they never interviewed me after a match they never interview referees never yeah and um i said okay and then the next thing they the next day are like oh you got like 1.2 million views on you know social media period and I'm like okay what's that mean for me yeah yeah they're like oh my god people are so

interested in what you had to say you know and I'm like why can't this be done all the time and it wasn't done again you came from the era when referees were like allowed to have a personality when referees had a name true and I feel like actually like very recently they referenced the name of a referee right and it's been so long since w.E's done that that I was kind of caught off guard I was like, oh, wow. Because they would just often say the official. Right. Right. But you were able to have like an actual brand.

You were able to have a personality out of this. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it was great. They said our names a lot, especially like, you know, Jim Ross and King Lawler and Michael Cole years ago. You know, he used to say our names a lot, which I thought it was cool. But it was just one day, you know, it was one day some years ago.

Vince had just heard somebody's name, you know, in guerrilla, and he heard this name. And he's like, that's not the talent's name. He was like, who, whose name is that? Oh, that's the referee. Well, stop saying his damn name. He was like, he doesn't sell tickets, you know. That's true. I mean, referees, comp tickets.

We don't sell tickets, Chris. You know, if you had my comp list, I'm probably about 10,000 or 20,000 tickets comp to my career. That's a lot of comp tickets. Who would hit you up the most for tickets? Oh, man. Friends, family, everybody, you know. Well, it would have been me.

Cousins coming out of the woodworks. And this one's getting older. They're in the wrestling. But it was always great, you know. They would have been me if you were, you know, in WWA. I could have hooked you up in WrestleMania 18, Skydome. I was there. I was actually just talking to Hulk Hogan about that earlier today.

My favorite match of all time. That's awesome. Yeah, that's one of my favorite, too, as well. I'm guessing that's your favorite that you've worked? Um, you know, there's so many, it's favored in a certain way. I mean, it was just the way, I think that match, you know, everybody, a lot of guys like Chris Jericho, even, he had the main event that night with Triple H. And he was saying all day, that match be put on last. Should have.

And a lot of people forget that was on third last. Right. Because that was on. Women's. Yes, the three-way match of the women's. And then it was Jericho, Triple Age. Right. And the crowd was that the energy was taken out.

Of course. After that match. And it was just, you know, it's such an incredible match. Like, you know, back then that I know it was going to be one of the most memorable matches in my career or, you know, Rock's career or in Hogan's career. No, we didn't probably realize that. There was a lot of expectations of that match to be to come through, you know. It wasn't going to be some high jumping off the top rope technical wrestling match. It was just old school wrestling.

Yeah. Push off, shove off, shoulder tackle, hulk up. It was just great. And they executed that match. just to the perfect team. In the beginning of that match, just from the entrances. And when Hogan hit that,

when he came out of gorilla, and I'm sitting in that ring, I'm standing in that ring, and I just got goosebumps, man, it's just the way the crowd, the Toronto crowd, and Canada is such an awesome place to work

because they respect wrestling so huge, you know? Yeah. They almost respected almost at the same level as hockey, I think, almost. It's pretty close. It's pretty close, you know?

I was telling Hogan this, like, I was going into that match, fully intending to cheer for the rock. The rock's my guy. Right, right. And then Hogan's music hit and I went, I'm a Hulk of Aedia.

He came out at NWO gear. I popped huge. I mean, it was just, I marked out. I have to say, 2002, after being with the company's 17 years at that point, I marked out, man, huge. Really marked out. If you want to get a better night's sleep

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There's a great moment where everybody points to the stare down, right, at the start of that match. Yeah. You are such a consummate professional that you knew this was a big moment. Brock on the left, Hogan on the right. Stood off to the side. You stood off to the side. That's right. That's true.

And I think that that's such a nuance, so such a small thing that a lot of people don't pick up on. No, that's absolutely right, Chris. I mean, you know, very few spots where I'd have to get into the center, but, you know, that moment is on them. And that's the one thing like, you know, you don't want to, a referee shouldn't be in business for themselves. You have to focus that your talents to draw, your talents are thing. Now, if my scrawny ass got up in the middle and you went, okay, I'm, you know, putting my face right there. You know, it's just not right for the referee, you know. You got to give that moment.

To be honest, we're too, I froze because I was just my face. marking out on the stair down and marking out on the crowd reaction. I mean, it makes sense for the referee to be in the middle in something like UFC. Right. You know, where you are genuinely like trying to control these two fighters. But, yeah, it was great, though, that you're such a professional, that you allowed them to have that moment. Right. Oh, thank you, Chris.

Yeah. And Hulk Hogan was telling me how he didn't know that the NWO was going to come out and beat him up after that. Right. And it was you that told him. Here they come. Yeah. Stay in the ring. They're coming, right.

His ribs were hurting. He was hurting a little bit. But to think about that, that's, I mean, that's Hulk Hogan going from being a bad guy for the year. Yeah. However many years he was a bad guy with the NWO. Right. To, like, about to turn face. And you're the one delivering the news to him.

Yeah, delivering the news. It's like, because, you know, they didn't expect the crowd back in guerrilla. Yeah. Whether it was Paterson, Michael's, Hayes, Vince, everybody, they didn't expect that reaction. You know, and I'm sure. when they went through that whole reaction, it changed Hogan from heel to baby face again into the yellow and red trunks and all that,

yellow trunks and, you know, and it was just, they were probably going, oh shit, we should have put that match on last. That may be the biggest misbooking in WW, or WrestleMania history. Right.

Just the idea of like, how is that not on last? Well, yeah, I know. Well, you don't know. So, I mean, you know, And there was a title match. So yeah, but you want a title match, but that wasn't even a title match.

It was just icon against icon, you know. And I don't even know this, and I kind of feel embarrassed on knowing this. Did you work other matches that night at WrestleMania 18? No, I did not. So you worked the match? That match, yes. Wow.

I stayed up. I was so pumped up. We stayed at the Skydome. I had this huge ass suite. Oh, and I remember I couldn't sleep. I couldn't get to sleep until like five in the morning. I were just so wound up. Like, you know, and I was like, man,

I started having a couple drinks in my room just trying to put myself to sleep. You stayed at the Intercontinental inside of the... Oh, wow. That's the one that when the Blue Jays play, you can like look out. Watch it from the stadium. I had a glass window and it looked right into the stadium.

Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, it was an experience, man. And just, you know, and just the parts that I had to do in that match, you know, is just, of course, as a referee, you don't want to screw up any spots. And it's the one bump I had to take, you know, being on the outside with the chair. And as Rock hits the ropes, I had to slide in and take the shoulder tackle, like, on point.

Because, you know, and that's what I was stressed about, the most, the most, is making sure this bump looks really good. And it just, it's got to look like it just comes out of nowhere, not, you know, not like it's pre-planned and everything. So in the spot and the bump just worked out so perfectly. I remember Rock was just, you know, and Hogan was very happy about how the bump took place. Do you remember what the first big match was that you worked? You know, I want to say, you know, one of my biggest matches I first worked was Raisa Ramon and 1-2-3 kid at the Manhattan Center. You know, I was still green.

You had a great mullet, too. Oh, thanks. Unfortunately, I like to try and bring that back maybe, you know, maybe in a throwback wrestling shirt or something. But, yeah, I mean, we're at the Manhattan Center, you know, from Jersey. I'm always setting up at Madison Square Garden. And we're always, now we got this Manhattan Center. And it's like, God, what a pain he has that was getting the ring in every time.

It took us like six hours just to take these parts of this little elevator and piece by piece with the ring. Wow. So it was just a great wrestling atmosphere. The New York crowd, unbelievable. And Razor's got to do the job to 1, 2, 3 kid, you know? So to Xbox. At the time, 1, 2, 3 kid, of course. And I remember Razor pulled me over.

He's like, coyote, you got to smatch, right? like, yeah, Ray's, you know, and I'm like, he's like, bro, I know it. I know you got to, you know, watch you counts and stuff like that, but I want the quickest one, two, three count without really making it look obvious, but I want the quickest count, brother. And I'm like, all right, Ray's, no problem, you know. You don't want to mess with Ray's or Ramon, Shaw Michaels and that whole click back then, you know, like, no problem, raise.

So I'm just stressed. I'm like, all right, how do I make this like, one, two, three, like quick, you know? So I did. I sped up my cadence on the count. That's for sure, you know, but, and it worked out perfect. But it was what a pop. What a reaction. Did you get to the arena that night and looked at the rundown and went, oh, but the kid

is going to be Razor? Are you sure? Right. Yeah, of course I did. And I was just, you know, back in them days, the boys didn't take, you know, if you were doing a job, it's not like they didn't like the one, two, three kid, but it's like, I got a job out to him, you know, like where I got a job, you know, trying to get the kid over, we're trying to do this.

and, you know, and Razor was a good sport about it, you know. So, I mean, you know, there's times I've seen in the locker room going, I'm not doing the effing job for him. Hell no. Oh, you've seen that many times back in the 80s and 90s. Wow. You know, a lot of guys took their, whether they're making big money, but they took their character and their stuff with pride, man.

Took it with pride. It was like days when you, you know, like you've seen it on interviews when somebody's called wrestling fake, they got slapped. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, so he took it with pride. We all took the business with pride. That match changed the course of Sean Walpins' life. Yes.

Certainly of his career, but like, it put him on the math. Yes. And I just think about the idea of like someone with his size, his stature, his age. I think he was 22 at the time. Yeah. To beat Razor in like two minutes. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable.

What a pop. And I mean, it just working. I think the place maybe hold 15, 18, 100 people, maybe a little bit more. Yeah. But it was such a great wrestling atmosphere. It was like a little theater. So it was just great, man. So I think that was probably, I'd have to say, you know, one of my first big.

And I was doing matches with Yokozuna, like squash matches and doing Sean and Marty Genetti, the rockers, you know, and stuff like that. But I probably got to say that was probably one of the most in the beginning of my career. Did you ever have someone pull you aside earlier in your career? And they went, why'd you do that? And you're like, oh, what are you talking about? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And this is what I talk about, like, going into business for yourself as a referee.

You couldn't play no ha-ha and shenanigans in there when you're in a ring. And the guy that made me a referee was Chief J. Strombo. And he was tired of New York commissions. And I was working in the business two years, 85 to 87. And chief said, hey, yeah, he called me Dynamite Kid. And he goes, come here, Dynamite. He goes, I want you to get a pair of black jeans, a blue shirt, and a bow tie. I said, I'm a referee, chief. And he's like, yep, you're a referee. You okay with that? I said, yeah, so I was setting up the ring and I had referee.

So I started a referee and he goes, and your pal, Joey will help you, Joey Morella. And Joey, of course, help me. He used to always help me just how to respect the business and how you should shake everybody's hand to say hello when you come in and just, you know, and stuff. And just, you know, you don't walk around like your shit don't stink, you know. And he always helped me out on the outside, inside, of course, because I used to set the rings up for Gorilla Monsoon when I was younger. And Victor Keowne used to run the ring crew for a gorilla. And me, Joey, and Tony Chimel and some guy, we always set the rings up.

And this is when I was 15, 16, and like summertime, in high school. Wow. So it was really cool because, I mean, I'd get like 50 bucks to take the ropes, 50 bucks to do the music, 50 bucks for the ring, 50 bucks for the timekeeping. And then I'd go sell programs. Because Joey was, you know, established referee at the point. So, oh, man, programs are a dollar. How much am I going to make some?

10 cents off the dollar? I'd sell 3,000 programs. So I'd have, 300 bucks. 300 bucks, plus the 200 with the crew stuff. I was making, I had four cards by the time I was 17. Pretty good night. And on top of that, you're working in pro wrestling. Pro wrestling, you know, I mean, working with guys like Andre, a giant,

looking at him going, oh, my God, Big John Stud, and Tony Greer and Rick Martel and there's so many guys on and on. It was just, you know, George the Animal Steel when I started a referee, and he was still working at the time. So it's just, it's been unbelievable career. I mean, so many guys.

I mean, my first match was Barry Harowitz and Steve Lombardi, the Brooklyn brawling, you know. So, and, yeah, so it's, it was a phenomenal career. Do you ever think about what you would have done for a living if it wasn't pro wrestling? I was going to probably go back to play baseball. I was a hell of a baseball player. So either pro wrestling referee or pro baseball players, is what you're saying?

Yeah, I wanted really to get into baseball. I feel like the odds of being a wrestling referee is probably better than playing in baseball. I mean, I traveled over 40, 50 different countries, a lot of countries over and over. What position did you play? Shortstop. Okay. Yeah, I was a hell of a shortstop. I was a good pitcher, real good pitcher.

I had an hell of an arm and a really good stick. So growing up, you know, just outside of New York, you wanted to play for the end? Thank you. No, no, I went to Phillies at the time. Philly? But growing up, I was more of a pirate fan. I always wanted to get, you know. How did you become a pirate fan?

Well, when you lived in Jersey in South Jersey, you had, you know, I had one side of the family, was my uncle and my grandfather were raised me as a Steeler fan and a pirate fan. And then I became a penguin fan and just a huge Steeler fan. And I had some of the other part of family. We were trying, you know, Mets and Jets and Giants and, and then the Terry Brad shows, I just stuck with the Steelers, you know. Wow. So it just became a huge Steeler fan when I was a kid.

And that's when the Steelers were doing good in the 70s do. Hey, they did pretty good, you know, not too long ago. Yeah, you know, as well. Yep, yep. I'm just fascinated by the idea that, like, certain things happen in life that lead you down a certain path. Yeah. And, like, it's you starting off in wrestling and then getting, you know, another opportunity

and another opportunity that leads to you to 31 years in the WW. 35 with WW with ref and made my debut on TV in 89. And really what made that lead to that path, Chris, was not to play baseball and go to wrestling. And I was growing up with Joey Morella. My father, Kyoto, took a stroke in 1984, 83, 84. So, and I was like, I got to go back to making some money to help the family. I had two younger sisters, my mom.

So my mom was working. And my dad, you know, he kept the family as whole. passed in 2000 but he couldn't work anymore so I had to step up and go make some more money right away so when I asked gorilla if I can come back and and I was working in a machine shop at the time I was a machinist as I learned machinery and welding and stuff in high school so and I was working for a machine shop called Selmar manufacturing building test missiles for the Navy harpoons chamber missiles and all that tomahawks and so I was making good money there but I wanted to make that good like I was making when I was 15, 16.

Yeah. Got me four cars by the time I was 17. Do you remember what those four cars were? Yes, I do. My first 71 fastback, mock one conversion 302 boss, 78 fireboard formula, 350, four barrel, 79, Z 28, and I had a Dotson 280 Z. I love that you could just rattle that off like that. Well, you know, when you're buying your own stuff and you're 17 years old, 16 buying your own cars. You must have been the coolest kid in town.

I was pretty cool. I was the first one with a cell phone. That was like this big Panasonic one when I was working for WWF at the time. Sure. This big Panasonic phone in my firebird formula. And I was like, now you can't use my phone, man. It's $3 a minute. Man, the refs showing up in a firebird.

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You may have taken the greatest ref bump of all time. The one from Shane McMahon. Yeah, I love that bump. You were running down the ramp, full speed. Yes. And out of nowhere. Here comes shame. And I told him to bring it.

Oh, he brought it. Dude, you flew like 12 feet. I just missed the steps. You just missed the steps. Just missed a couple more another foot or so. I would have been hit my head on the steps. It was crazy how hard he hit you. The crowd went nuts, man.

Yeah, because I thought you got really hurt. I was rocked. He rocked my world, man. But I, you know, I always love working with Shane McMahon. And Shane right back at, you know, he always loved working with me. And so it was awesome. And he brought a, like, a linebacker. And he's, you know, he's always been a big boy.

He's always been a big boy. I think that when people think of Shane McMahon and you, it's Kurt Angle. Yeah. Shane McMahon. Oh, yeah. King of the Ring. Yeah. And I mean, that was already pretty bad for Shane, but I feel like it could have got much worse.

It could have. You know, um. that night, whoof, I never forget. I thought I may not have a job coming back. You know, during, there was several times during that match, you know, Shane had a lot to prove. You know, he rocks this match out. He gets through it.

You know, it puts him on the chart of being a wrestler. You know what I'm saying? And he can hang with the toughest. And, you know, Kurt's not in the business that long at that point, really, too. but he, boy, he picked up a wrestling business, professional wrestling business, quick. And one of the best, you know. And he's a tough son of a gun in that ring, man.

I've done many matches where Kurt, Kurt don't let up, man. He just keeps going. He's like a machine. So, you know, Shane had a lot to prove. And getting to that spot where he goes through the glass, and it just, you know, he didn't go through the glass. I'm thinking, you know, we hit the wrong panel,

you know, because there were certain panels and certain panels were breaking, certain panels weren't, you know? So at one point I'm thinking, no, this is the right panel, you know, the glass panel. So he's not going to convince it all in the background going, tell him not fucking thrown through the glass. Not, no more, like, because, you know, after the first time.

This is in your earpiece? In my earpiece. Yeah. Gorilla position, we're screaming. Everybody was screaming. And then all of a sudden you hear Vince just taking over. like, tell him not, tell what I killed. And I'm going, Kurt, don't put him through the fucking glass no more.

Don't try it, no more. Don't try it. I'm on his right side. He tries, and it doesn't work again. I'm like, holy shit. And then finally, Kurt just wings him through the glass. I'm like, oh, no. I guess Shane, Kurt says that Shane was like, we're doing it.

I don't care. No, he didn't care. And I couldn't stop anything because I, because that would have been disrespect and Shane. And Shane had a lot to prove. So, Shane is, you know, Shane, he'll go through anything. He'll do anything. I mean, tough, tough guy, man. The look on Kurt's face when he throws him through is just like, oh, God, I hope this works.

Yeah, me too, because I was just, like, in shock. You know, I'd seen all this glass and Shane's head and, you know, slices and stuff. And I'm thinking, was that the fake glass that we were supposed to use or is this real, you know? Did they, Kurt said they ordered the wrong glass. They ordered the wrong glass we found out, but I thought we were hitting the wrong panels. Yeah. You know, and the stunt guy back then.

But yeah, so it was just scary. I mean, and Vince was just screaming. I remember checking back and there was one part of the match where they come off the top rope and they're setting it up, to come off the top, the angle slamming. I'm holding this piece of wood or on a piece of wood, like a small piece. Yes.

And I seen it just coming up. off the corner of the rope, the corner of the board, just getting ready to fall, and I just sat there just trying to hold it at the best. I held it enough just to where he got that bump. But I remember Linda coming up to me at the end of night, she goes, oh my God, my great match, great job. And thank you for holding that plywood up there on the ropes.

And she caught that little bit of the... She was the only one who mentioned that. Only one, thank you very much for holding that piece of wood. Could you imagine if in the middle the angle slam the plywood just fell and they just come yeah so you know it's and she she was the only she was very smart well i love linda mcmann and always it was a pleasure working with her and for her all those years you were there for some of the biggest moments in wwee history yeah and while we're still talking about curt angle it's curt angle brock lesner yeah you were there for that match yeah in

seattle that was that was an unbelievable match and you know these guys been going at it for a while and I did a lot of their matches you know um building up to that seattle match of wrestlingania and these these two guys are you got machine against machine and curt i think wrestling at that time with a broken neck broken neck brock's got injuries too so at the end of that kurt's going to go and get his neck fixed right and a few uh other injuries going on i think too as well machine you're right and i remember you know when brock went up for that shooting woof did you look at just the layout and you're like you're looking at You're looking at how far out Hurts is.

Right. Yes. Were you just like, well, I guess he's going to do it. Oh, yeah. He was going to do it. And like, as athletic as Brock Lesnar is and was and is now still, you know, I definitely thought he would make it. And when I went up there and I'm telling me, like, acting like, get it down, get it down. You know, it always gimmick to like get it down from the top rope, you know, like it was an illegal move, you know.

And I just said, hit that. fucking thing, Brock, you know? And I seen Kurt because he was so far out. And, you know, and Kurt did the right thing because, you know, you just can't be in the middle of the ring when all eyes are on you now. And imagine him just fishing, wobbling over to get in a, get in position, to get closer. It'll look stupid. Of course. And when Brock fell a little bit short on that, it was like, oh my God. And then I just looked at Brock's eyes and were kind of all blurry and stuff and everything. So I was just like, oh, you okay, brother? man, he fought right through it and finished it.

Fell on his head. Felt right on his head. If that was anybody else, that's a broken neck. Coming off that rope and just seeing him coming off that and falling with all that weight, as big as he was, you know, as big as he is, it was just unbelievable. You know, and he tuffed through it, though, man,

he got the match. He did. I think you were in the middle of Kurt Engel's best match, and it's Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit. Yeah. It's so, so, good man i i i blew up five times in that match you're the referee i was in good shape and i was probably 30s mid 30s or whatever he was you know may late 30s but um yeah i was probably late 30s 40 but i mean i blew up like five times because these guys were just none but brick shit houses man

just you know it's like him and brock trying to pull them together and those guys would always say like hey i want you get in there and really pull us apart man don't there's going to be no No more like, you know, one, two, oh, I'll break. One, two, three, four, I'll break, you know. There was none of that. And they both explained that to me, too. That's the same thing Brock and Kurt went through, too. And that's the way Kurt was with Benoit.

And Benoit, especially, too, as well. You know, if I had, you had to break them, you had to get in there, forcefully break them and get around their waist and pull them out of the corner or pull them back. And I swear I blew up five times, got my wind back, came back, blew up, got my wind back. And I was like, holy shit. And I remember, you know, Kurt went over. Yeah. And Benoit got this standing O.

It was just amazing to see, you know, Benoit get that standing ovation there, man. It was just awesome. One of my favorite things about you when I was a kid watching WWE is you legitimately, like, look like you were getting mad at the wrestlers. Like, if they were breaking the rules or something, you would get in their face. Right. You would yell at them.

And I'm like, oh, man, that's like passion right there. Yeah, it is passion. I mean, it was, I was always into my mat. I gave it 110% every time I went out. I used to always hit that mat really hard. Talking to the boys during the matches and the counts, the one, like, even Razor Ramon said, man, you got the best false finishes ever.

Because Razor and Sean and them guys taught me how to do that stuff. It was like, you know, one, two, I mean, just swipe it. And, you know, like, they barely picked that shoulder up and get that. And when you can get the crowd just to stand off there, When you see the front rows and all the floor seats and people just get up and they thought that was the finish. It's like, damn, I did my job, you know. What happens, though, if you miss it by an eighth of a second? Like, how do you time it out?

You have to ask Rick Knox out about last night on 8 of you. God bless, I feel bad for them. I just don't know. Yeah, I don't know what happens. But you time it. What you do is you're talking to them. As you go down to count, as I go down to count. Yeah.

I've always said, you know, I've always told the guys to look at me and listen. You know, I always tell all the talent, especially new talent that I hadn't worked with forever, or if I never worked with the talent or, and even, you know, just remember, just keep your eyes on these false finishes, these close false finishes coming towards the end. You know, let's keep it close and I'll talk to you. You know, just watch me and listen because, you know, the crowd's up. So if they can't hear me and they don't hear the one count, at least they're watching me, you know. And I always say watch me.

And I'd say, all right, here we go. One, two. and I'd be like, kick. You know? You would say that? I would say kick. Oh. So that's, you know, it's very important to communicate.

And, you know, people don't realize what you're saying and what you're doing in there because they never miced us so you couldn't hear us, you know. So it's just, you've got to be on the same page because every referee counts as his cadence is different. Yeah. Every referee's cadence. And you know, his false finishes, you got to keep a good cadence up one, two, and then just, and just, swipe that hand underneath it, you know, and just, you just can't go like the old school

stop like, like that, you know, because how do you do that? I mean, if you're really coming down on your count, sorry, how do you just go? Yeah, you know, I did it there. Yeah, I know, I did it there, but now, I always liked to swipe and, you know, and just, and then you realize, you know, when I was doing it, when my younger, in my career, and you see people getting off the seats and thought it was the finish, okay, it's working. You know, you know, you're doing your job, right, you know you're not wearing a microphone but you are wearing an earpiece so talk us through what you're hearing what cues are you hearing during a typical match in your earpiece oh you hear like okay um you know like you'll be in the ring with one talent there they'll tell you when to raise

the title up get the title raise the title the hard camera so you know that's that's an important shot there right before the match starts okay get ready to ring the bell they'll give you a cue to ring the bell. Sometimes the cue is on us. If there's certain talent wants us to ring the bell inside the ring, it'll be on us or, you know, certain matches. But usually Kevin Dunn in the truck and all that would control the bell and Vince a gorilla and all that stuff. And then what other, like during the match, what are the cues you know? Cues of time. You're going into commercial break. You got, you know, say you got 20 minutes left, 19. They counts down minute by minute. 18, 17. And, you know, I used to, I used to be so good at the time.

And, you know, like when Briscoe, we had Briscoe years ago doing Gorilla, of course, Gola Monsoon at first, but then Briscoe many years, Bruce Pritchard, Billy Kidman. So, you know, they'd couch down minute by minute. But I was so good at times. They had always like, how much time we got left in it. Right before I'd hear the QIB, we got 17. And then you'd hear like five seconds later, 17 to go. Because it was just, it was coming natural to me.

I didn't even, you know, I had no watch on. I'm not looking at a clock. I could just feel a minute going by. I could feel two minutes going by. It was just, it became natural after experience. So give me an example of how you would communicate a time queue. So I'd go to a boy, and back then we talked like Carney. We got Fiazai, Fiazor, three is he, two, Tiazou, weazan.

Because if you were caught on camera by a mic, one of the cameras, you don't want to go, five minutes left. You know, like, you'd be like, Tia Z, Niazine. You know, and you'd always, like, do it on a drive-by. You would never just sit there and go, you know, to the rest of his face, nine minutes left. Yeah, yeah. I would even pass on cues or spots, like, as, if I'm reprimanded one of the boys, I'm not really reprimanded them. I'm acting like I'm pointing at him, mean face, but I'm calling spots at that time. So what would that look like?

Or time queues. So, you know, I'd be like, I'm telling you right now, like, they did it. But I'm actually giving cues or spots that the guys want me to translate. Wow. You know, transfer over to, you know, hey, this is. next. Would you have to wait till they were in a rest spot? Yeah, I mean, well, we wait till we're separated, or I'm reprimanded

him, say, say like, you know, I pull him off the ropes, he's choking him or this and that. And then, you know, I'll check and I'll tell them to do this, all right, I back them up, and then, you know, hey, this that, and we used to speak Carney a lot, you know, and you could tell when the generations of the guys,

the talent coming in, and the new kid, you know, he'd come in, and I was still speaking Carney in the ring, TVs, and I'd be like, you know, We got Tiazani. We got this. We got, and be like,

you know, Tia Zan, Neazine. Wow. Like, Kyoto, you never gave me to Q's. I'm like, what?

I'm like, I was telling you in Carney, like Tia Zen, and he's like, oh, is that what you were saying? You know? Oh,

I don't speak Carney. Sorry. I'm like, oh, they don't teach you that in school. Thinking PNC, the PC center. I'm thinking, okay.

Who was a wrestler that was like, I don't care who I'm working? Keota's my referee. Man, Yes. Unfortunately, I had the opportunity with a lot of talent that did that, which was awesome, you know, and it became like The Rock, you know, and Shaw Michaels and the Rockers, I remember, we used to do our marathon matches with the Rougeau brothers and all that, you know, and used to work the Bulldogs and all that stuff. So, I mean, there was a lot of guys back in the day that you said, I want Q. It was my referee. And, you know, the Rock did a lot. So that was awesome, you know. I mean, we talked Rock Hogan, but you also work, it was the first Rock Austin match, right? Well, yeah, the first Rock in Philadelphia, yeah. Because they had three WrestleMania's, right?

And it was the first one. I just took a chair shot on that first one. I just took a chair shot. No, no, that was the most important. I was like, I started the match off Earl came in and finished it. Yeah. And I was, you know, South Jersey boy growing up, Philadelphia's back to him, all these comp tickets, of course, going back to comp tickets. and I'm like, you know, I'm so like,

I'm going to take this chair shot, you know. Austin's like, all right, kid, you know, you put your hand up. I'm like, nah, I'm not putting my hand up. I'm like, how am I, you know, as a referee, you always looked at, like, all the boys do all this crazy stuff, chair shots and everything.

Yeah. And you're supposed to go in and go, I'm going to put my hand up, you know, like, so I was just like, man, you know, if it gashes me, splits me open, it does, you know. And that's what the guys, you know, sometimes you have to get things the hard way.

That chair shot rang my bell for three days. I thought I heard a telephone ringing for like three days. I bet. My neck was sore for at least a week or so. J.R. came back and goes, kid getting a bonus for $2,500. I was like, holy shit. I'm like, got ring crew pay.

I got referee pay and I'm getting a bonus on top of this. I'm like, that's a hell of a night. I'll take another chair shot at me, B. What about passing the blade off? How often would you do that? Yeah, quite a few times. Where would you keep it during the match?

I'd keep it in my, like sometimes I had a wristband. I'd keep one in there and a backup in my pocket, my front pocket. And if not, you know, if I didn't wear it, I'd always have two, one in each pocket. So like, you know, if you lost one, you have a backup. So I would do that. And I remember so funny, you know, you're so used to like, okay, yeah, blade and blade and blade and everybody blades. Ruffel carried a blade, backup. The boys would carry one too.

But you always have to carry a backup. Yeah. Sometimes they would get the blade, do it, and wouldn't be good enough, so you'd have to give them another one so we can get better juice. You know, they take aspirins to bleed then, you know. Yeah, thin the blood out. Yeah, so thin the blood out.

And I remember one time I was on vacation, and I came back to work. I took a week off. Came back to work. It was in Tampa, Florida. So it's Dave Batista and Chris Terrico. And Dave comes up to me and, you know, Dave's cool, comp collective as usual, you know, Batista.

And he goes, hey, uh, Cuyahua, I need you to, uh, get the blade. But he pulls me off to the side and like in a real quiet place in the arena. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like, cool, yeah, of course. Yeah, no problem. So they had a meeting prior. So we, we go through this whole thing. the blade I didn't even know there was a meeting prior to this like a week or two before this

I was off no more bladen so I didn't notice the whole time so now they're in a steel cage chris and chris and patisse are in a steel cage on it was tv I think it was raw or smackdown one or the other maybe smack down and so next thing you know the match goes you know great everything's great da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And then that night we're flying overseas. The next morning, we're going overseas. So I get a call from Chris Jericho that next morning. He goes, hey, Coyote.

I was like, yeah, what's up, Chris? He said, he goes, yeah, I'm at the airport. He goes, do you hear the old man is hot? I'm like, who? He goes, what do you mean, who? He goes, Vince. I'm like, Vince is hot at who? He goes, all of us.

I'm like, why is Vince hot? He goes, well, you pass him the blade. I'm like, yeah, okay? And like, how else are I supposed to do it? Do it myself? And he goes, no, I'm serious. The old man's hot. Oh, we're going to have a meeting in London when we get to the O2 arena or something.

I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? So I'm like, he goes, yeah. He goes, you know, it's all about that meeting. I'm like, what meeting? He goes, oh, I said, I was off last week. He goes, oh, you were off so you don't even know about the blades? We're not supposed to be bladed no more. I'm like, you got to be kidding me.

I'm like, nobody fucking told me that. Wow. So I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, all right. So I see Dean Malenko. He was the agent. We see him at the airport because he was like, oh, we got fucking heat. And I'm like, I'm like, wait a minute.

How am I getting heat? I wasn't even at the meeting. I don't know. I'm like, all right, well, you know, I'll take one for the team going, you know, I'm thinking, okay, we're going to get reamed out, right? So we're in London. we get to the arena we have to show up early

Johnny's Lauren I is shoving us into this meeting I got the I got in Vince's room in big screen TV and we just I went into HD TV cameras and all that stuff and everything

so Vince comes in there's me Dean Batista Jericho and he's cutting a promo huge promo and he's fucking hot Vince and I'm just like oh shit he starts off with these

fines, right? And he goes, he was to Chris. I forgot what his, oh my God, $50,000? Wow. I think, and then he got to, then he got to Dean. And it was like $5,000. And I was like, oh, sweet. I'm like, all these guys make more money to me. I'm like, what am I get? Like a grand? Yeah. You know, like, screw. I'm like, all right, cool. He gets to Batista, like, 100 grand. Then he gets, I'm pretty sure it was 50 or 100 grand for the boys. And I know more for Batista. And it gets to me, he goes, and you, what do you got to say for yourself? And I'm like, because he had it on the videos on the screen on TV.

Kevin Dunn circled my hand, circled the blade. He had it all circled out, me passing it. And I was just, I'm sorry, sir. Obviously, I'm losing my touch. Thought I was a lot slicker than that, you know. But this HD shit picking up. up everything and he's got it all, you know, and I'm just like, I buy it. He's like, and you $5,000 and I'm like, oh, five grand. So I'm like, this is brutal. I'm like,

I'm working a Europe tour for free. So who comes to my locker room and gives me a check for five grand. It makes me take it as Dave Batista. He paid everybody's fines off. Wow. He paid everybody's fine. I mean, I love Dave Peterson. Not only because he did that, because he was always a stand-up guy. What a fantastic story. Yeah, it was cool. He paid my fine. that. I was like, I don't want it, Dave. I'll burn one for the team. I don't care. I didn't know about it. And if I did know about it, I still would have went with it. Dave is such a sweetheart in general. He really is. He is such a good guy. Doesn't he live not far from here? Yeah, I'm hopefully waiting to run into him someday. I mean, you're going to run into him someday. You're going to run into each other. You're going to run into each other. You're going to run into each other. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. Batesa around here. Batista still lives around here. They all over. They're, they all over. There's Like Sean Michaels, I think is a big one. You mentioned him earlier. Yes.

You worked Sean Michaels in Austin. Yes, yes. That was huge. Unfortunately, I got to do that. Earl Hebner had an aneurysm. And I remember them calling me. And, you know, I had my matches planned out for that, for that people, review, rest of me, at that time. And we were at the Boston Guard, another mecca, old school arena.

And I got the call. You know, I was doing crew out there all week because I was doing the ring and stuff. and setting up for manias. And I got the call and said, you're going to be doing, you know, Sean Michaels and Stone Colds match with Mike, you know, Tyson, the enforcer. And I was like, holy shit, you know,

thank God Earl was okay. Yeah. I haven't stable, everything, but he obviously couldn't work that week. You remember meeting Tyson for the first time? Man, met Mike Tyson, which I was a huge fan of Mike Tyson, right? And, you know, I remember there was a couple,

there was one time we were watching his fights on Bay Review. I go to the bathroom and miss the fucking knockout and go, oh my God, I went for like two minutes and missed the fight, you know, but huge fan. So he comes through the arena. We're going to rehearsals one night.

He comes in the backstage arena, comes in with some entourage. He was, Hey, Mike Keota. And I'm like, you know me? I'm like, he goes, man,

I watch wrestling all time. I love me. What's up? And I'm like, what's up, Mike? I'm like, I'm a huge fan of yours.

He's like, I'm a huge fan of yours. fan of yours i'm like you watch wrestling goes love wrestling i'm like it's like i watch it every week i'm like no shit i'm like mike tyson watches me i'm like wow mark yeah mike was real cool man and he was real fun to work with you've you've had some of the best russomalia matches yeah i mean top to bottom yeah roxina yeah roxina once in a lifetime that didn't happen once yeah yeah i mean you know you know and i know there was it would it would This is a funny little quick story.

Like, you know, Erosena, like, busing his ass for 10 years, you know, like running the company. Because, you know, when I did the Rock in Hogan match, it was like Hogan passed,

it was like Andre passing the torch to Hogan. Yeah. Hogan passing a torch to Rock. Yeah. Well, Rock got the torch. He shortly took off and left us and went to Hollywood. Yeah.

Right? And so it was like, yeah, thanks, Rock. You know? So, and he did great. And he's done, and I'm so proud of what he's accomplished in Hollywood now.

So, you know, and coming up to that, you know, it was just, when you see the torch has passed on, it was just amazing to work these matches with, you know, like, rock and in Stone Cold getting the torch pretty much his career started right after that WrestleMania, right? Yeah. So it was just, it was just unbelievable to be a part of that match. And, you know, like, where was I getting out of that? So Roxena and you were said. Rock Cena, and going back to React, Roxena, it was, you know,

Sina was busting his ass for 10 years on the company, working all the time, working hard. You know, Rock comes back in from Hollywood, and Rock's going over. Yeah. You know, I could see the little damper in John, you know. He was a little, like, kind of, you know, like, I'm carrying his company. And, you know, and Sina was busting his ass for 10 years,

and he was a very generous guy, always overseas paying everybody's hotel bar bills, heavy all the drinks were on Sina you know you'd always take care of the crew that worked hard for him and um you know and rock came in and he went over rock went over i could see there was a little bit of you know a little dissensionaire you know and um i felt bad you know i felt bad because it was like and much as i love the rock i was thinking man this is you know so i remember then then part two comes up rock Sina and um and i didn't have that much match. But Sina was going over.

And the Rock comes up, he's like, T.C. Because he always changed my nickname from Coyote to Chi-Chi. You know, all these years, it was Coyote. And he changed his cheat. He's like, you got my match? I said, no, you're doing the job tonight, Rock. I'm not doing your match. He goes, ah.

That was good. That was good. I'm like, yeah. I don't want to count your shoulders. WWE released footage, like, very recently of what was said between Rock and Sina after that first match. And they, like, dubbed it with subtitles. Because there was a lot of, like, animosity leading up to that match, right?

Like, Sina was saying some, yeah, very nice things. Some stiff stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then after the match, they're in the ring, and Sina is saying, I'm, like, I did this because of you, because it's you. And, like, they shared this, like, really, I'll show you afterwards. Right.

It's just a cool moment to see. Yeah, it was, it went on for a little bit, too, right? It didn't. You can tell Rock's looking at Sina going, what's this all about? Right, because it was weird because it was wondering where Sina was going with. I didn't even know where Sina was going with. And then Rock's like, I did this because if you, I believe in you, I believe in, you know. The company, the fans. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah, it was a moment. That was a moment. You've been there in some scary moments too. And I think that Undertaker versus Goldberg. Right, right. That could have been real scary. Yeah.

I mean, you know, the travel was brutal, Chris. I mean, it was brutal. We get into Saudi Arabia. I remember we were, we got in the night before. Everybody was on a total different time zone. Sometimes jet lag kicks in like the day later when these long trips occur and stuff. And I remember, you know, we just didn't go to Saudi. We came off a TV and we did this, then we had to go to Saudi.

Might have come off some live events probably that weekend into TV. then in the Saudi. So we got to Saudi Arabia, and I remember, like, you know, people weren't really getting to sleep. Like, you didn't get in there at 9, 10 o'clock, go, okay, I'm getting ready to go right to sleep because you slept a lot on a plane.

Yeah. Time zones different. I remember it was about 125 degrees. And I remember we went out to the, the malls didn't open until 9 o'clock at night. And a lot of stuff didn't open until 9. Oh, because it was colder. It was just not even colder, but it was maybe about 100

or 95 degrees at night, 100. So it was just, you know, the sun went down and that's when people went to work, construction and stuff like that, their hottest time in a year. So I remember a lot of us didn't get good sleep. We get to the arena. We're there all day.

He does take her, and I believe we went on at like midnight. And I remember going through the locker rooms at that, like, you know, nine, 10 o'clock, you know, a show was going on. The show went for a while. Everybody's sleeping in the locker rooms. Passed out because of jet lag.

Everybody was tired, man. So I know we were exhausted, totally going into midnight. I was. Take her, I'm sure it was. But, you know, take, you know, and some people were always saying, like, you know, Goldberg came out of the dress room and was hitting his head on the thing. But I was in the ring at the time. So, and I didn't see, you know, they showed a little gash when he came out.

but Goldberg was fine to me because when he came in the ring he called the whole match back to me you know when he got in the ring because Taker had this you know phenomenal entrance it was awesome entrance of course it takes like 10 minutes which was you know that's one of the best

entrances in wrestling my opinion so I mean is the best and he called you know and he goes hey let me call this back to you and I'm like okay cool you know and he just gave he was running back spots to spots and it was cool I wanted to hear it too so I

made sure I had everything straight. Nothing changed before the match. So everything was good until he hit that turn buckle in the post. You know, and it just went all down from there, man. Yeah, he couldn't get Undertaker up for the Jack him. No, no. That was. That was scary.

Real scary. It was real scary, man. And, you know, if you watched that match back again, when Taker finished on the end of that match, he's just sitting up looking around, pissed. and just kind of looked upset, you know, like frustrated. Because, you know, I know taker got jammed up a little bit too, you know. So he just, it almost like he went out of character right there.

You know, it wasn't in his normal Undertaker character. He just, he had a lot on his mind. He was just looking around. I'm just sitting on the outside of the ring going, oh, shit. That man's pissed, you know. But, you know, thank God everything worked out, you know, like everything we got through that night. I remember trying to talk to guerrilla going, what do I do? You know, what do I do, man?

Do I stop it? He's getting worse. He's getting worse. He's getting worse. Billy's like, stand by, Kyoto. I'm like, guys, let me know. He's just, he's getting worse because he didn't come off the rope. He was on the rope one time.

He wouldn't come off. And I'm like, yo, when I first asked him, he was like, I'm okay. I'm okay. But then he just started getting worse, you know, as a concussion really kicked in. And I didn't hear anything from guerrilla at that point. I'm thinking, holy shit. Like, I know they paid us a lot of money to be here. I know they paid the talent, I think, a lot of money.

I think Goldberg got a couple million. This one got this. I got my $200. You know. $200? $200. No, but, you know, but it was like, you know, they paid us a lot of money. I'm thinking, got to finish us, like the old school way, you know.

We did finish it barely, you know. And dead man's leader of the ring, man. He's the godfather of business. So anybody to be in there with, it would be a taker, that's for sure. What's the scariest moment you've ever been in the ring for? Who? You know, it's, of course, I don't want to hate to bring it up, but Owen Hart. You know, I was sad at the end.

You know, when I came running out, and Jimmy Cordaris was in there. Yeah. I had Jimmy on the show. He said, like, I went just narrowly. Yeah. Messed him. Yeah. Just basically just missed him.

I remember Bruce pitch out of his cell. I was at Guerrilla and Bruce just jumped out of his seat. Stood up and just went, you know, get down there and see if Owen's all right. You know, I got there. You know, that's probably one of the worst. I think Droz was, you know, a number of draws. Yeah. And in there in Long Island and seeing he was such a good dude.

I love Droz. God bless him. and yeah just didn't probably when i got thrown over to top rope from the center of the ring by i met johnson he was working a match with triple h and he actually put me in a hospital in Tampa here no but it wasn't you know he was he was he was blown up working a match with triple h and big guy and he was supposed to throw me over the top rope and he kind of was like in the center and i'm going holy shit am i going now and it he was just like he got a little closer and he tried to throw me just got me over the top rope i wound up twisting falling boom hit hit the end of the ring

couldn't feel anything i thought i was paralyzed for like i had a stinger and it just kind of numb me for a while and everything came back so it i just you know my nerves yeah the stinger and stuff so and thank god everything came back so as i remember triple h was a boy i was like i can't feel none and trip and trip was like we're we're getting we're getting you help right now we're getting you help right now you know is that was one of the scariest moments of my career. Sure. As far as me taking a bump. I feel like you could still do this.

I could. When we talked last time, I was shocked. Fans were shocked. Like, how do you get rid of Mike Kyoto? Right. Dude's a legend. When you think of referees, there's very few that come to mind, and you are certainly towards the top of that list.

Wow, yeah. How come you're not doing this anymore? I don't know. Like, you know, I'm not retired. I still got a few good years left in me. You've got many good years. You look great. Yeah.

Thank you, man. Thank you, bro. I feel great. I feel great. You had a short stint in AEW. Yeah, short stent in A.W. You know, so I was hoping to maybe get on that collision show, but it didn't pan out. So, I mean, you know, it's, it is what it is.

I'm just, you know. It's part. Anything could happen. That's right. It's Thursday right now. You could be on the show this weekend. Right, maybe. It's just in Michigan.

It's just a short flight away. That's it. Everything's a short flight, really. That's true. It really is. Yeah. It's nice to be home and pay a mortgage and actually be in your house, you know, and live in your house, you know. Yeah.

I've been doing a lot of podcasts with Paul Bromwell and AdFrey and Pauley, you know, Pauley Beesman really taking care of me on the podcast industry, you know, and I really enjoyed doing it for three years now. Yeah, you've got a great setup in your office, too. Oh, thank you. I got a lot of member billion. It's the only room that my wife will give me, you know, Meredith's only give me that room for wrestling. I've got one of those too. I got like 60 chairs in a garage. I got so many chairs in the office, Aperview chairs, wrestling media chairs.

And I got so much stuff in the closet. She's like, you're not putting in any other room, just that room. I can't blame her. Yes. It wants to see wrestling stuff everywhere. Exactly.

Right. So, but yeah, I've been enjoying doing seminars and virtuals and stuff. You know, yeah, I'd love to, you know, if WW ever called me to do a match or anything,

you know, I'd love to go back. And, you know, I'd feel like I didn't get to really finish my career out, you know. Yeah. I did Rick Flair's last match, you know, about a year ago, a little over a year ago, and it's awesome to see Rick again, and I really appreciated him calling me in to do that

match, you know, it was phenomenal. So Rick, hand-selected you for that match? That's correct, yeah. That's great. So it was awesome, man, you know, and love Rick Flair, man. So it was awesome, dude. And I'm keeping busy, you know, so I mean, not as busy as I really like to be, you know. But, you know, like I got like virtuals coming up here and I got a virtual signings.

Virtual signings are huge now. So, I mean, doing seminars and I do some matches. I pick and choose where I want to go work a match or two. Fans miss you. Yeah, I miss them. Fans miss seeing you in the ring. I miss them too, man. I miss the Mike Keota chant the whole bit.

Mike Keota. I just feel like it's not. It can't be over. Yeah. I hope it's not. I hope it's not, you know. Yeah. You know, like I said, I got a few more good.

years. You've got many more years, Mike. Yeah. I mean, you know, hey, you know, if I could still do it, and collect Social Security, it'd be great. But, you know, I'd love to go back, you know. I'm so glad we got to sit down in person for this. There's nothing like sitting down there. No, definitely. We also just had a drink with Rick Flair before this. Right. Exactly, right. I end every conversation talking about gratitude. It's such a big part of my life. Right. What are three things, Mike, that you're grateful for right now. Man, you know, I'm grateful for the beautiful mom that I've had my sisters in my life. You know, I love that very much. My wife and my good health. I love that. I'm getting choked up now, too. Mike, you are a legend. Thank you. And I'm grateful to be able to sit down

with you. Yeah, right back at you. Thank you, man. Thank you, Chris. Appreciate you. Yeah, good Let's go have a good cry now. Let's do it. Oh, that was so, so good. You can check out Mike on Mailbag Monday, which you can find on ad-free shows.com. Look, we touched on a lot of the biggest moments that he was in the ring for,

but I feel like there's still another, I don't know, 50, 150 more measures we could have talked about there. So maybe we'll save that for round three. But my goodness, nothing is better than being able to do these interviews in person. And I'm doing whatever I can to make. them all in person. And maybe this is something we'll save for the next AskCTVV episode, which is actually going to be this Friday, by the way. So if you have a question for the next AskCTVV, this is AskCV13. Just send it over to me either on Twitter or Instagram using

the hashtag AskCV. But it's 52 weeks a year, obviously. We have two new episodes per week. So that's 104 episodes a year. Throw some Ask CVVs in there. It's a lot. It's a lot of guests. So I'm trying to do whatever we can to do them all in person. So if you're going to Survivor Series in Chicago, I will see you there. We're going to try to bang out some interviews there. If you're going to Tampa for the Royal Rumble in the new year, I will see you there. We're going to try to do some interviews there. Yes, if you're going to WrestleMania in Philly next year, I will see you there as well.

So we're trying to be like, okay, where is the highest population of wrestlers? Maybe if it's not around an AEW or WW event, maybe it's a convention, maybe it's, I don't know. I mean, a lot of them live in Orlando, so I'll be in Orlando in the next few weeks. Who knows which interviews we might get there? All of this is to say, you're awesome. And I appreciate you.

A lot of you have been listening to the show since before it was even a podcast. I started my YouTube channel in 2011 and you've been here with me. That whole time, 12, almost 13 years. The podcast started in 2019. A lot of you are day oners. And here we are in episode number 500.

32. So thank you. I told you at the start of the episode. I'm feeling extra grateful here. I will leave you with a quote from George Bernard Shaw. And it means so much to me, how many people come up to me and go, I love those quotes. I write them down all the time. They really help to drive me or to motivate me. That's the best. I actually sometimes spend more time looking for the quotes than even recording these episodes. So I think it says a lot about them. George Bernard Shaw said life isn't about full. finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Be great and be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight with my good friend Tyler Breeze. So good. The Hammer Alley podcast,

an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this.

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