Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mike Santana on Leaving AEW, Splitting Up With Ortiz, Turning Down WWE

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

Mike Santana is a professional wrestler known for his time in AEW and TNA Wrestling. He was one half of the tag team Proud N Powerful with Ortiz in AEW. Mike sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about his decision to ask for his release from AEW, what led to him and Ortiz splitting up, turning down WWE to sign with AEW in 2019, never winning the AEW tag team titles with Proud N Powerful, joining LAX in TNA, going to rehab and being sober for over a year, working with Chris Jericho in The Inner Circle, his future plans as a singles wrestler and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: "People pray for the cake. Then the universe gives them the batter, oil, icing, a pan, an oven and they get frustrated and leave the kitchen. Let that sink in. Sometimes you have everything right in front of you, but how bad do you want it?" Sponsors: PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT for a first deposit match up to $100! BABBEL: Learn a new language and get 50% off your lifetime Babbel subscription at http://babbel.com/cvv MAGIC SPOON: Get $5 off with the code CVV at http://magicspoon.com/cvv RHONE: Upgrade your closet with Rhone and use CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv BETTERHELP: Get 10% off your first month with the code INSIGHT at http://betterhelp.com/insight MUDWTR: Get 15% off with the code CVV15 at http://mudwtr.com/cvv MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% on your BONCHARGE Infrared Sauna Blanket! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Well, here we go. Welcome back to another one here on Inside. I'm CBV, Chris Van Fleet. And look, I know you've got a lot of podcast options out there that you could be listening to right now. So thank you for being here. Thank you as always for making Insight one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. And you know how sometimes you think you've got someone figured out because you've seen them on TV or you've been following their,

career for a long time. Well, if you thought you knew Mike Santana from his time in TNA or AEW, get ready to be very surprised. Mike is nothing like the intense character that he played as part of Proud and Powerful with Ortiz or part of LAX in TNA. This is like a very reflective conversation about Santana's life and his career up to this point. It also gets pretty emotional. at times. He talks about going to rehab and being sober now for over a year. What a journey that's been. He talks about asking for his release from AEW and being granted it at the beginning, beginning of March of this year. Talks about what led up to him splitting with his long-time tag team partner Ortiz. And he talks about what's next for him. Oh, and why they both decided to sign

with AEW over WW about five years ago. It's all very fascinating stuff. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Snap a screenshot if you do and tag us so we can share it out. He's at Santana underscore proud. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and here we go. Enjoy this conversation with Mike Santana. That's been a while.

So good to see you, man. Likewise, man. Thank you for making the trip out here. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. L.A. is beautiful. It's nice. time of year, right? Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I got off the plane and I was like, let's go.

Like, I could get used to 75 degrees in sunny. Absolutely. I mean, New York, New York is starting to warm up a little bit, but like we're in that transition of, it's like, it's nice for like two days and then it's freezing for like three days. And so it's up and down right now. New York's always been home for you, right? Absolutely. Yeah, born and raised. You're like through and through a New Yorkerican. New Yorkerican. New York. Yep. Yep. Yeah, born and raised. I'm the only one left. Everybody else has gone. And, you know, for me, you know, coming into wrestling,

I always knew that I wanted to represent New York and do something special with that. And also, I've never left because, you know, I look out for my grandparents and I spend a lot of time with them. And, you know, they're getting up there in age. So me being close, family is everything for me. So me being close to them. And, yeah, that means a lot. around your neck here. This is my dad. Wow. Yeah, my dad passed away four years ago. So,

January 2020. Wow. Yeah, New Year's Day. He's right there next to your heart all the time. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It was like five years ago, I think, when we did our last interview. Mm-hmm. A lot has changed since then. In a hotel room. Yeah, that's right. In a hotel room, I think it was Chicago. Yep, yep. Yeah, a lot's changed since then. Absolutely. I guess the biggest thing is you're not with AEW anymore. I am not. Yeah. So what was the decision to not resign or what ended up happening with AEW?

Well, like I was telling you, my decision to leave AEW came well before my injury, actually. I got hurt in June of 2022. And at that point, I was just dealing with so much. in my life personally and professionally at work. Um, and I was just burnt out. Like I had my contract was coming up in September, I believe. And I had already made a decision that I'm not going to resign and I'm going to just, I need to take a break and deal with the things that I needed to deal with.

And, um, yeah. So, and then the injury happened. So that was, uh, A lot. A lot was going on during that time. Did they want to resign you in September? Like, was that an offer that was made to you? I'm not sure, but I wasn't really actively pursuing,

oh, like the time was coming up. Like I said, it was June, I got hurt. Our contract was up August, I think. Yeah, because you guys gave me the end of August. Yeah, yeah, the end of August. Yeah. And I wasn't really like actively pursuing, oh, are you guys going to resign us? Because already in my head, I was like, yeah, I need to get away.

I need to take a break. But I'm sure something would have worked out and, you know, they probably would have resigned us. But yeah, man, during that time, it was just, it was a very dark time for me. What was going on? Unhappiness personally. my life outside of wrestling and then professionally things weren't really going good. I was miserable, to say the least, I was unhappy. You know, my partnership was falling apart.

Things at work just weren't like a lot of things were just very stagnant. And I'm the type that I'm like a go-getter and I'm very goal-oriented. and again, like in this business, I treat it as such. I treat it as a business. And if you're not striving to be at the top and to, you know, be a champ and, you know, grow yourself, then what are you doing, right? And that's with anything, I feel like. But also, I was also dealing with, like, my addiction issues during that time. At that point, they were getting pretty bad.

And then the injury, like when the injury happened, I remember it happened and laying there in the ring. And I was like, damn, I got hurt. But like, thank God I got hurt. Yeah. It was a weird time. So you're selling, it's a year, right, since you've been a year sober, yeah. Wow. Congratulations.

Thank you. Thank you. What's the date? February 16th. Okay. So that was just about a year ago. Mm-hmm. Wow.

What was the moment for you when you went? I need to get clean. I knew it was getting bad because I wasn't coming home. And I would be out for days. And Christmas was coming up. And every year, my daughter always wrote her Christmas list to Santa. And in her list, one of the only things on her list was that she wanted Daddy to stop. And then my grandmother wrote me a letter.

And my grandmother has always been like a savior of mine in my life. And, you know, growing up I had a pretty rough childhood. And she showed me that there was more to life than just like trauma and a lot of the bullshit I was going through. And she's always been a savior of mine. And seeing that I was like causing her pain, especially after my dad I passed away

and then my daughter and her mom it was like you know when you're an addict you think you're just hurting yourself and you don't see the others around you they're hurting you know so

well here you are on the other side of it and you should be really proud of yourself for that absolutely yeah absolutely was it was it alcohol Was it pills? What was the main thing you struggled with? It was alcohol and other stuff, yeah. But here you were on the other side of it.

Yeah, man. And like one day being sober was probably a big accomplishment. Yeah. Then one week. Yep. Then a month. Yep. And here you are.

And it's every day, right? Oh, yeah. And I don't, I don't like, you know. And here you are a year later. I heard, I heard Eddie Guerrero say this. He was like, you can't overwhelm yourself with the thoughts of, shit, I've got to be sober for the rest of my life. that's way too overwhelming.

You know, it's just for today. Today I'm not going to drink. Today I'm not going to do drugs. And then it's like that the next day and the next day. And it just builds up until you just build time, right? Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it's tournament season or the fight for the playoff home court, there's no shortage of high-stakes basketball moments this time of year.

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against you and the rest of your entry stays live. Download the app today and use the code Insight for a first deposit match up to $100. That's the code Insight for a first deposit match up to $100. Prize picks. Pick more, pick less. It's that easy. I asked Jake the snake, Jake Roberts, I said, how long are you an addict? And he goes, I'm still an addict. And that hit, that hit hard because I was like, oh, it's a daily thing. It's a daily decision. So when you're thinking, I'm not going to resign with AW, did you think about once I get everything cleaned up in my personal life, once I get this figured out, did you think about

what was going to be next for your career? I mean, at that time, back when I got hurt, I was just thinking of like, I need to get out of here. Like, I need to get away from this. I need to figure my life out. I need to, like, I wasn't even thinking, all right, once I get everything situated, I'll come back. I'll, you know, do what I got to do. I was just like so overwhelmed with everything and so unhappy and dealing with, you know,

because like when my dad passed away, you know, I've always lived my life in survival mode, right? It was something I just got used to. So my entire life was just like constant guard up, constant just surviving day by day. And there was a lot of things that I went through as a kid and experienced that I held inside because I wasn't really taught to speak about these things. I wasn't, you know, my mom, you know, because of the things that were going on, and for her to protect us and make sure that everything would be, she always would be like, yo, whatever happens at home stays at home.

You know, we don't talk about this. So I grew up with that. I was like, yeah, whatever I deal with, I deal with it on my own and keep it pushing. And so, yeah, I held on to a lot of things from my childhood and things that I never really dealt with and spoke about. And, you know, when that stuff builds up as like a soda bottle. when you shake it up, you know, and eventually something will happen and it will explode.

And that's what happened when my dad died. You know, my dad died and everything just came to the service. When you say you're in survival mode your whole life, then you get signed by AEW in 2019. You're offered, I'm sure, more money than you would ever made in your career as a wrestler. Did things not change there? Does it not put things in perspective of like, okay, like, everything I've worked for, it's starting to pay off now.

It did, but I was still living in survival mode. And it was, it was just crazy. I, like, I realize it now, looking back, it's like, there was a lot of things that I didn't really get to enjoy because I was constantly like in their survival mode, where it's like I'm waiting for the next shoot to drop. Okay, I got signed, I got a great contract, I'm on TV, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I've traveled the world, I've wrestled in MSG,

I've freaking, you know, all over the country, everything, all these things. And I never really took a moment to like reflect and be like, damn. There's never a moment you were able to sit there and just appreciate what's happening? It happened recently. Really? What was it? When I think it was like right before going into rehab where when my daughter's mom, she was, you know, talking to me and like getting on my ass about things. And she was like, yo, have you not realized what you've done in your life?

She was like, you're a poor Puerto Rican kid from New York. And you got to see the world and you got to accomplish things that, you know, look at your friends who you grew up with. A lot of them aren't even around. And she's like, here you are, ready to piss it all the way. And then I went in and I remember sitting at the window in my room and going through detox was the worst experience in my life. I think if there's anything, that was going to keep me away from drugs and alcohol. It's that experience, man, because I didn't realize how bad I was until I went through that. I was like, what did I do to myself?

And I remember going through detox and staring out that window and just like shivering and like feeling like, like I'm not even human. And I was like, yo, what am I doing? Like what? Look where I'm at. Look at all the shit that I've done, you know, like. Yeah. And it was like that moment. I was like, yo, this is it.

I have to, I got to get better. Was there a moment with what you've got to? what you guys were doing, where you realized we are one of the hottest tag teams in the world. When we took those masks off. The AEW debut. When we, because we had wrestled the MSG

and my whole family was there, my dad was there, and it was against the Lucha Bros. And we had a crazy run with the Lucha Bros. We wrestled them about 24. four times in a year all over the world. Crazy. And I remember my dad, I went to the front of the garden to give my family the tickets,

and my dad pulls me to the side. And he's like, yo, it's crazy because my dad took me on my first garden show. I was four years old. Do you remember who was on the? Oh, yeah, I do. It was a tag match. It was, what was it? It was like 95.

It was Brett, who was it was Brett, Sean Yokozuna and somebody else. It was like a tag match, house show, crazy. It was insane. My dad actually still had the program. Wow. And he carried it around with him and his pie. I found that out when he passed away. I was cleaning out his place.

And I went in his closet. I'm going through his jackets. And I found a program. in one of his jackets that he always wore. Wow. So he carried that with him all the time. Wow. But yeah, we're in front of the garden.

He's like, isn't it crazy that all those years ago, I brought you to see all your favorite wrestlers, and now I'm here to see my favorite wrestler. Brough. Wow. That AEW debut at all that was special. Yeah, it was. I was in the crowd there.

I remember. Yeah. First of all, how do you decide what president you're going to be? yo, I don't know. I just know that we were, that weekend, we were doing some indie shows in Chicago, and we were in the hotel room on a Patrick Swayze kick. And point break came on.

Yes. And I was like, yo, that's it. Because we were trying to figure out, all right, how are we going to do this? Like, what are we going to, you know? And I was like, we got to do, because, you know, we always wore the debt president's face paint. We started doing that at impact. and then I was like, man, we got to do something kind of similar, but like different.

And yeah, point break came on and I was like, that's it right there. And yeah, it was just random. It was like, all right, Kennedy and I think Clinton or whatever. I'm sure they were like, okay, here's all those presidents you can't be. Yeah, right? Everybody else is fair game, but you can't be. I think the choice of presidents, those were the only ones at the store. So I was like, all right, well, Clinton is from, like, our childhood and stuff.

I'll never forget the call from Excalibur because you guys take off the mask. It's the 10 out of T's! And the crowd knew exactly who you guys were. I think that was it, you know, because we, like, people watched Impact. Like, we were doing some cool stuff, but, like, we still were like, they're going to know who we are and that's always that's everybody's like reaction right

it doesn't I don't care who you are yeah that's all are they going to react are they going to you know know who I am and that was that was it and we're like I remember we're standing under the stage and it's dark

and I look over I have a partner and I'm like yo it's going to be crickets watch it's going to be crickets and he's like yep and so we were for that already.

And, yeah, man, we took those masks off and I could feel it go from my feet all the way up to my head, like that roar. It was like unlike anything I've ever experienced. It was, you know, because it, like, it rose. Just like, I don't know. We took those masks off and it was like, oh, it's on. And what a unique time, right? Like, at that point for AEW, because I think that was,

only the third pay-per-view. Yep. They hadn't even started TV yet. Yep. So it's like you had double or nothing, you had Fighter Fest or, I think of the Fallen or or whatever it was. I think, was it, Fighter Fest? I think, yeah, well, I think it was like a fourth one there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like the momentum was there, right? And there was like this real hunger for something else in 2019. And it was like lightning in a bottle. And you guys coming in there, the fans were. so smart to who like the big names were. And I think the one word that best describes Santana Ortiz is intense. And I know this from personal experience.

People won't remember this. But I was part of a segment with you guys on like the fifth episode of Dynamite. We were in Charleston, West Virginia. I was interviewing the Rock and Roll Express in my final AEW segment that I did, which most people don't even remember. you guys come out and I just remember you hit Ricky Morton

in the back of the head with like a sock filled with pennies and I'm like, oh, damn. And then you guys both get up in my face and I'm like, I'm out of here.

I don't want any of this. And then you proceed to power bomb Ricky Morton through the stage. Poor guy. Yo, I love Ricky. Every time he sees me, he's like,

yo, thank you for like reinvigate, re-invigorating our career and all this shit. I'm like, bro, we almost killed you. I'm sorry. I remember, like, walking through that whole thing, and he's like, oh, yeah, like, make sure he give it to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a pros pro, man. Yeah. Real veteran. There was so much buzz around you guys, and it's crazy to sit here five years later and think that you never won the AEW tag team championships. What happened? Your guess is as good as mine.

Um, I'm gonna be real. I'm a shoe straight with you. The reason I was given was that there was too many other people fighting for that spot. And that pissed me off more than anything. Because that that was like, because I... It feels like you guys would also be fighting for that spot. Yes.

And when you, and I understand that when you get to a certain level in this business, If you don't fight for yourself or you don't advocate for yourself, you ain't get nowhere. And that was a big part of my fight, you know, within my team. And when I heard that, it just validated everything that I was like, all right. Was there ever a talk of giving you guys the championship? There was in the beginning right when, um, It was we were feuding with, it was right before the pandemic, right?

We were feuding with the bucks. We were ending our feud with the bucks. And they both told us. They were like, hey, after this, you're going to go and start working a program with Frankie and Skorp at the time that they were still champs. And then you guys are going to grab the belts from them and whatever. But then, so that was the, the week of New Year's Eve

and then we were supposed to have a match New Year's Day and then start the program with them. We were going to go into some promos and then that morning I woke up and got the call that my dad passed away. So I had to leave. Yeah. So I left and then I was gone for two weeks and in those two weeks everything changed.

And then that was it. And then not long after that, We go into the pandemic style era of wrestling. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a crazy time. Yeah. It was a crazy time. So where did the falling out with Ortiz begin that?

You know, well, we were together for 10 years, I think. And, you know, when you're together with someone that long, you know, it's like a married couple, right? There's, you know, there's good, there's bad. And I think, honestly, for the most part, it was like, I think we just grew apart over time. And also our visions for the tag team and its future and, you know, its success. Like, we weren't on the same page when it came to a lot of those things. And, you know, it is what it is. Everybody has their thoughts.

Everybody, you know, goes about things differently. But yeah, like I told you, I'm a go-getter. I like to create opportunities for myself. I'm more than willing to fight for our spot. But also, I'm not going to be the only one. So was it that you wanted to do things on your own or that you wanted more for the tag team? I wanted more for the tag team.

And that was like, that was the main thing. And again, it just wasn't, how do I say it? It just, like, our visions just were at the same. So are you saying that he was happy with what you guys were being given, and you were saying, I want more than this. Yeah, yeah, for the most part, yeah. And then that's when I was like, yo, all right, well, I, this is going to do.

drive me crazy. Like, I refuse to be miserable. I refuse. So I think, you know, I want to start doing more single stuff, start challenging myself as a performer, start growing. I'm not one that likes to stay stagnant. And, you know, that was, that was, it wasn't met with a lot of support. And there was, uh, it created like a friction. And I was like, man, you know, you're my brother and that that for me it was like all right

we can't do this anymore well then you guys ended up turning into a feud yeah which I don't know how was that not a pay-per-view match that felt like I always say not my show felt like a throwaway match

on Rampage with great respect to the work that you guys did the buildup was there obviously the story's there feels like it should have had more It should have. Yeah.

I mean, it was something that was supposed to go across all three shows, at least when we all sat down and planned things out and whatever. And then, yeah, it just got regulated to one show. And, yeah. And I was just like, that was another thing that I was like, yeah, I'm good. How did you decide you were going to be Mike Santana? So before Santana came about, I was known as Mike Drastic on the Indies before getting signed to impact.

So yeah, I was like, well, I didn't like how Santana sounded by itself. You didn't want to be like Carlo Santana? Yeah, yeah, I'm good. So I was like, I'll use the first name that I used before, you know. And that was it. It wasn't not a lot of thought. I heard Conan saying like, you should be Miguel Santana. Yeah, sure.

Thanks. Thanks a lot. Hi, he's your boy, you know? Yeah, he should be the barbarian, Conan. So what bookings are you taking right now? Where are we seeing you now? Everywhere. I mean, I've been working closely with House of Glory.

That's been a place that's always been like a home for me, you know, especially very early on in a career. they've always given us great opportunities and helped us grow. Amazing Red and Brian, those dudes are like mentors and always been great dudes. And yeah, to see where the company is now, how they've grown this place. And it's amazing. I mean, they're going to start touring soon. And I'm blessed to be part of that team and be on the forefront of taking the company on the road and stuff like that.

So you had the match with Ortiz. Yeah. Then you guys came back together, right? No, we, we, so we, I came back, we did the stadium stampede. Yeah. At Wembley. And then we did the feud. And then I was all from two years since October.

Are you guys still not okay? Like, is there still heat there? I wouldn't say, I mean, for me, I don't hold any. I told them after the match. I was like, yo, I hope the best for you. I hope you do well. and there's no hard feelings. I hold no hate, no grudge, nothing.

Like, I, uh, again, like, I'm in a different place in my life in general. And, um, I'm good. Like, I'm, I'm chilling. Do you not want to be a tag team wrestler anymore right now? No. Yeah. I think it's, uh, I'm at a point where I, I'm seeking growth and I want, I'm 33 now. I'm like right at, at the beginning of my prime years.

I want to take full advantage of them, which I think it's okay for me to do, you know. And yeah, I want to see where it goes. You know, I dedicated half of my career, which was like, you know, 10, 12 years to the tag team. I think it's only right that I dedicate the next 10, 12 years to myself and see where I can go and make the best of it, man. I just want to be happy and have fun doing what I'm doing.

Again, I went through hell to get back to where I'm at now and just be the person that I am. So I want to enjoy it. And I refuse to be miserable and just, like, hate what I'm doing. I might as well just go back to work at a 9-5. You know, like, it is what it is. But, yeah, I love this too much, man. Was there ever any interest at any point from WWA?

Like recently? At any point. Oh, yeah. Like when we had When our contracts was coming up with with TNA There was interest with AEW and WW Like we had spoken to WW extensively

And they made it very hard for us to like Not to turn them down You know and but Our thing was that we have So Cody was the one who hired us right And we had already before anything, we had spoke a while back, and we had given Cody our word before anything,

and our word is everything. So by that point, we were like, you know, and they asked, hey, have you signed anything? We're like, no, but we gave our word, and, you know, we would like to stick to that. And, you know, at the time, we both had young children, and we wanted to see them grow up,

and the schedule was much easier with AW. plus the opportunity to be part of history, be a part of something that was brand new and fresh and be at the ground level. And honestly, like, even now, I could honestly say, like, yo, I was part of that legacy and part of that history. No matter what, people could always go back and very first show, very first main event, my name is there.

So I'm happy with that. Were they saying, was WWE saying you got to move to Orlando? No, they actually said you could stay in New York. Wow. They were like, yeah, we'll pay you this. You could stay in New York. They were making it very, very hard. But you're a man of your word.

But I'm a man of my word. Wow. What about now? You're a free agent now. Yeah. With those discussions with WWE come back up? Yeah, I've had some discussions. Yeah, I've been very open with everybody.

You know, right now is just, going where I'm going to be able to grow the most and and yeah like I don't want to just be another guy in the roster I already did that you know like I want to

be part of something I want to do something special you know like thankfully I've been smart with money and I'm not like hurting and I'm taking my time with things and you know I just want to have fun would you go back TNA?

Everything is on the table. I like that. Everything, yeah. Yeah. And they're doing great. They are. They are doing amazing. TNA.

I mean, wrestling in general is amazing right now. But TNA being TNA again? Yo. Man. Yeah. Yeah. I saw, I remember when they first dropped that little, that hype video with all the guys coming to like the swamp.

I was like, that is the coolest thing I've ever seen, yo. And like Frankie coming out of the wall. order like a monster? I was like, how, like, what? Who came up with this?

It was amazing. That was really good. I was at that first show, hard to kill. Yeah. And like just to be able to, you know, hear TNA chance again,

I was like, yes. Yep, yeah. And they blew it out the water. I watched all the shows. Oh, yeah.

Man, this is, this is great. Nistalgia is a hell of a drug, but it only gets so far, right? Yeah, you've got to deliver on that.

And they've been delivering. They've been delivering. I mean, look at the, squad that they have. They have an amazing team, not just in, in, in the ring, but like, behind the scenes, man. They have such a great team and everybody, everybody has that, that same mindset. Let's continue the momentum. Let's keep growing. Let's keep showing why we belong, you know, and it's great. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer

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We want you and Ortiz back together I don't know I mean everything Like my options are on Yeah yeah Yeah But again like I'm I'm gonna

This one's for me How deep into the discussions with WWE did you get Like that was it Yeah Was it gonna be like We're gonna send you to NXT Did they talk about anything like that? Yeah I mean they were like

You know you start at NXT And you do a few months there and see how you develop and, you know, like get you assimilated to our system and stuff. And then, you know, we, they were like, we don't see you being an NXT more than like a year and then being called up. And then we knew we were like,

yo, if we get called up, we're never going to see our kids. You know, at that time. And, you know, if we would have done really well, yeah, you know, family is everything. At least for me, family is everything. and I wanted to see my daughter grow up because the early years when we were grinding with TNA

and on the Indies, like we were gone so much because at the time, well, before we got signed to TNA, I was working a 9-to-5 and- What were you doing? I was a conference coordinator

at a law firm. Wow. Nobody ever expects that. Were you wearing suits every day? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was working in Midtown, big office building. Wow.

Yeah, yeah. I'm not just a dumb Puerto Rican. I never said to your hair. But no, yeah, that's what I was doing. What were the cross streets? Like how? I was on 46 and 6th Avenue. That's like Times Square almost.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Right up the block. Yeah. Wow. 1155 6th Avenue. What do the people in the office think when you tell them, oh yeah, on weekends I wrestle?

So I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell, like I was very, I kept it very separate, right? But there was times where I would come in with like a black eye and like everybody's like, rough weekend? Yep. That's it. That's exactly what it was. Like I didn't really, you know, I've always, I've always been like at home.

I don't have no wrestling pictures hung up. I have no, like, nothing at all. I've always been one to keep it very separate. Like my home life and my professional life is just like, also when I come home, I like to be home. want to like, you know, see all this stuff like, I live it. Yeah. You know, I'm there.

So, yeah, I think, you know, the less distractions while I'm at home, the better. So you mentioned the stadium stampede. You were part of three of them. I think that's all of them. All of them, yeah. I mean, the first one obviously very different from the other ones because that was in the heart of like no fans and everything. Yep.

When you guys were mapping this out, did you realize you had something special? No. I mean, you've got an NFL stadium. Yeah, yeah. At your disposal. Yeah. I mean, we were, we were, we were doing a lot of things just to pop each other, honestly. Like, what was it, a fiefful posted?

Well, yesterday, I think, the no mercy whip. That was literally done just as a joke with me and Kenny. Yeah, you and Kenny did the No Mercy Irish will to nowhere. To nothing, just to transit. And it transitioned to the next thing. that's what it was so like we were doing things like that and then the the bit that we had with matt hardy where he's switching like into all coming out of the water these these were things that we were just spitballing like yo it'd be hilarious if we did this but we had no idea that it was

gonna catch on the way it did like we were just all right we might as well have fun doing this and make it different and you know what's that phrase as necessity as a mother invention like when your backs up against the wall and you gotta come up with something, you come up with something. Sometimes it's the best stuff in the world. And that's what that ended up being. Exactly.

Like, you, it was hell putting it together. Really? It was like when we, so we had put it all together the night before. Like we, you know, put together our spots and what we were going to do. All right,

you're going to be in this world. We're going to be in that world. You know, everybody had their world. That's what we were calling it. And yeah, we put it together maybe like four hours maybe, just mapping things out. But then when we were filming, we started, we had to film when it was dark because continuity, right? Yeah.

The pay-per-view. And so we started filming maybe 8 p.m. and it didn't finish until like 5 a.m. And then I got right on a plane back home. Like no sleep. We went straight to the airport from the stadium. Wow. Back home, yeah.

There's not a lot from the pandemic era that's like rewatchable. It's weird watching wrestling with no fans. And then it was slightly better with the wrestlers around the ring, but still, it's strange. That's something you can go back and rewatch. Like that and some of the cinematic matches. that WWE had, like, pick and choose a few things, but stadium stampede's definitely one of them.

Yeah, yeah. I got the whole storyline with Sammy and... Oh, my God. It was a lot of stuff, man. But it was fun. That, for me, that in the parking lot brawl were, like, two things that... Those things will live with me.

That parking lot brawl was wild. Yeah, yeah. And I think it was that good because all four of us were just frustrated. Mm-hmm. You know, with not, we were like, all right, we're not going to get these opportunities. We're not going to be, you know, put in these positions. Let's do it ourselves.

With that said, did you feel like, you know, it seems like there was a handful of people that felt that way. Maybe more than a handful of people. Did you, like when Cody went to WWE, were you like, yeah, I could see that coming. I knew it was coming. I knew there was, I'll be real, there was two people. that I said off the bat that we're going to go back to WWE. One of them already did. So I was like, man.

And you're saying there's another one that still may go back? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. People are going to wildly speculate on that one. That's fine. Yeah, I love having people guessing.

That's my favorite thing to do. What was it about Cody and AEW that made you think he's going back? It's funny because now, you know, he's doing the whole finish the story thing, right? Um, that's real. That's real. And I always knew that there was a lot more that he needed to do. You know, I knew, I knew that AEW wasn't going to be the end all be all for Cody. We, Cody is, I mean, I give him, uh, a lot of praise, man.

Because when my dad died, like, he was the first person. So I found out my dad passed away. We were at Daley's place. I flipped my shit. I'm literally like I got the call and I go outside and I'm flipping my shit. Like I'm tossing guardrails and like I was having a breakdown literally. And Brandy found me. And Brandy's like, what the hell?

She snatched me up. And I'm like bawling my eyes out and I tell her what happened. And she's like, come with me right now. And she puts me in a room and she's like, stay here, do not move. And she went and got Cody. Cody came and sat with me and he cried with me. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, I was there for such a very short period of time in AEW, but it seemed to me like Cody was really happy wearing the hat of being one of the EVPs. Like he was running in the production meetings when I was there. It seemed like he was really happy in that role and also doing what he was doing in the ring. That's why when these rumors started. I was like, no, like he seems like he's happy being like in that executive role. And it just seems to me like he really just wanted to be a wrestler.

Yeah. It was much more for him to do. Yeah. There's a lot more. And I respect a hell of him. Like, you know, when you look at his journey to get to where he's at now, it's, name another person who's done it the way he's done it. I mean, when those first reports came out, that Cody was gonna go from AEW to WWE.

I think it was Sean Ross Sapp that reported it. And people were like, he's a liar. He doesn't know anything. Why would you start this rumor? And then it happened. Well then, yeah, yeah, yeah. What would you say is different about AEW now than when you started in 2019?

A lot of things. For me personally, in my opinion, it and you know like places change places grow that's what they're supposed to do right um but for me personally it it didn't have that same feeling that it had in 2019 like i don't know like it's you know it's hard for me to like pinpoint you know there's so many things like so many different things. It's just a different place in general. But I feel like wrestling as a whole

right now is, it's hotter than it's ever been. As a whole, like Rising Tide lifts all ships. What do you think it is that's made wrestling so hot right now? It gets cool to be a wrestling fan again. Yeah, yeah. I think the options,

the talent, I mean, there's more talent now. Jesus Christ. it's insane it's wild you look at every like company out there yeah there's talent

yeah everywhere it's deep it's very deep there's wrestling on every day of the week yeah like that's insane to me and it's in its quality wrestling

right everywhere is like producing great stuff and um also like you said nostalgia It's like everybody remembers the attitude era. Everybody remembers when wrestling was at its hottest, and they want to relive that. Yeah.

Right? And now we have another boom. Yeah, there's like this resurgence. Yeah. And like, there's hints of like a post-PG era happening in WWE right now. Like Cody's calling people A-holes and like little dick energy recently on Raw. And rocks dropping F bombs. I'm like, is this the attitude era?

So with all that said, as a singles wrestler now, you look at the landscape, all the rosters are stacked. Are there some certain matches that you now want to have now that you're a free agent? Honestly, I haven't, like, since I've been back, I got back in August, I started doing independence in September, October. And I've been, like, wrestling some of the hottest, like, guys, right? like Brian Keith, you know, Cardona, I'm going to wrestle Shelley, you know, all these guys. I haven't really pinpointed like, oh, I want to work. Oh, Alexander, Josh is like, come on, he's literally one of the best in the world right now. Seriously.

And has been for a long time. Yes. I'm so glad people are finally starting to realize that. He's getting the respect and appreciation that he's doing. deserved for a long time. 100%. 100%. I haven't really pinpointed exactly like, you know, I don't, I wouldn't say dream matches or

whatever. I'm in a groove and in a mode now that I just want to challenge myself against the best. If you're one of the best, that's who I want to work with. Because it's only going to make me better, right? So if people are only familiar with you as a tag team wrestler, who's Mike Santana? You got to wait and see. Because I honestly feel like, and I keep saying it, like the best is yet to come.

Like, I'm just getting started. Like, I've been wrestling 15 years, and I feel like I'm just starting now. Because it's now where, like, I'm starting to really get it. I'm starting to understand the business, understand myself as a performer. Also, like, I say to myself, Like when I think back, I was kind of dealing with addiction for a long time, but it just got really bad, like, the last year or so, right?

But I look back on things and I'm like, yo, if I was able to accomplish the things that I have accomplished being messed up and not when I honestly not 100%, it scares me. the possibilities of what I'm going to be able to accomplish now that I'm like, I'm there. Like I'm, I'm, you know, better than I've ever been. Mentally,

physically, emotionally, just in every aspect of my life. Like, I am happier than ever. I'm healthier than ever. Um, I'm excited.

Honestly, like, it's been keeping me up that night. Wow. Like, that's how excited I am. Is there something you picked up from working so closely with Jericho in the inner circle that, you know, he's done everything in wrestling? Is there something you picked up from him that you now take with you to the matches you have to the work you're doing now? I wouldn't say for the matches, I think more business-wise and how he conduct. business. I think he's brilliant. He is, he is.

But also he understands the if you don't fight for yourself, nobody's going to fight for you. So you have your own your own back. You know what I mean? And that's one of the things that I realized early on working with him

like you fight for yours. You know, advocate for yourself. And yeah. Like, it was so cool, like, getting to work with him and have that experience in the beginning and stuff. And, but yeah, that's the main thing. Like, I learned more from Jericho watching him interact and conduct business than I did watching him in the ring.

Yeah. Yeah, there's like something about the way that he just, I don't know, he's just a good guy. Yeah. And there's a reason he's been doing this 30 plus years. He's figured something out. He knows what he's doing. Yeah. He knows what he's doing.

And especially at the top level, right? Yeah. Like you said, he's done everything. Yeah, and I think people undersell the fact that he also has a band and he also has a podcast and he also has the crews. He's a hustler. He's a hustler. What are the matches that you guys had in AEW that fans are always going, oh, when you did that match with, I'm going to guess it's the box. or the Lucha Bros.

But what's the match? You know, it's crazy? We've never wrestled Lucha Bros. At all elite wrestling, ever. Well, that seems like a missed opportunity. A lot of things do.

I have the image in my mind when you debuted there in the ring, but it's not a match, you're right. Nothing. Not once. Well, that seems like a missed opportunity. That's crazy.

That's insane to me. I don't understand. But not my shell. So it's the Bucks then? The Bucks, best friends, because we created that parking lot brawl, which was insane.

FTR, working with FTR was a lot of fun. We're very like-minded. Dax and I, you know, we related a lot to the fact that we love Brett Hart. And, yeah, but... Favorite Brett Hart match?

Favorite? put me on the spot. There's a few. I loved him in Austin. Yeah. The first one. I loved, um,

I, for some reason, like I loved when he worked like big guys. Like him and Bam Bam, amazing matches. And Bam Bam's athleticism is so underrated. Insane. Oh, he's just a big guy.

Insane. No, he's not. There's like a match that I saw on one of his DVDs that it's like, it was never tell, it was like a match they did in like, Spain or something, like never televised or anything. What the hell?

Like this guy. Of course, his matches with Mr. Perfect. Oh, yeah. Like the King of the Ring one and the Summer Slam one. I mean, come on. Bulldog, like. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I win, of course. Yes. Look, Red Hart versus a broomstick. Brett Hart versus anybody. Everybody. Yep. He's so, so good. Here's an underrated one.

Brett Hart versus one, two, three kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, we'd talk about her. Brett Hart versus Hakushi. Look at this. So you guys connected on loving Brett Hart.

Yes, yes. I mean, love him or hate him, Brett Hart's one of the greatest ever. No, no denying that. And I get that in the 90s, you're a Brett guy or a Sean guy. Yeah, I can understand that and appreciate that. Yeah, yeah.

But if you zoom out just a little bit and you're unbiased about it, how can you not appreciate Brett's work? You can't. I mean, he's, like, he's my idol, right? He's the reason why I got into wrestling. was the first match I've ever seen as a kid. Also, like, for me, you know, what I do in the realism and the authenticity that I bring,

you know, I don't consider myself playing a gimmick or a kid. I'm me, right? And Brett was the one for me that inspired that, right? When you look at Brett, he talks about his family, he talks about his morals, he talks about where he's from, and he talks about being the best, right? and that always resonated with me. Like, I always gravitated towards Brett

because as a kid, I was never into, like, the over-the-top comic book characters, like Hogan and Warrior and stuff. I saw someone that spoke about real-life stuff, you know, and that's what, like, he hooked me. Your character works almost like an actor. It's almost like, it's almost cinematic. Yeah, yeah.

In that it feels like the line is very thin between where you as a real person begins and ends. And I, because I channel a lot of my personal experiences into what I do. Like I've always done that. Like I, every time I'm standing behind the curtain, I just think of everything that I've been through to get to where I'm at every time. And that's what has allowed me to bring a certain type of like intensity and everything to what I do.

Like, even now, like in my bag, I still carry around the bracelets that they put on you in rehab. And I carry those around with me as a reminder. Wow. Everywhere that I go. Is it a reminder of where you came from? Where I came from. That you don't want to go back?

And what I could have lost. Now I feel like the world's your oyster. Oh, 100%. You've got nothing but opportunities in front of you. 100%. Thank you so much for just being as open as you've been here today. And we talked about doing this over Zoom. It wouldn't have been the same.

No, not at all. And again, like I told you, I rarely do these, like interviews and stuff. You really don't. No, I'm very, like, I'm private with a lot of things. Like, I may open up on social media here and there and stuff, but, like, when it comes to sitting down and doing these things in front of a camera, I've always like stood back from a lot of those things. But people are going to see a side of you here that they've never seen before.

Yeah. Yeah, you're a real human. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you. No, thank you for being as open as you have been. And I'm sure this will resonate with you.

I end every interview with gratitude because I wake up every day. I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. And that's just such like a North Star in my life. What are three things that you're grateful for? I'm grateful for God. I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the strength that I still have, despite everything that I've been through.

If it wasn't for my family, I would not be here. I'm grateful. My daughter, her mother, my grandmother, my mom, you know, my aunts, my uncles, just everybody, you know, the support, you know, that's why like, you know, addiction runs in my family, you know, my dad was an alcoholic. My grandmother lost two of her brothers to alcoholism. So this disease is, you know, and they tell you it's hereditary, right?

This is something that I was, I guess, born with. So when I was going through my thing, it was like, I was so ashamed because I know what my family has been through when it comes to this stuff and the fact that they never turned their back on me. We're glad you're still here, man. What a conversation. What a conversation.

And man, the future is just so bright for Mike Santana. When he said, like, look, I've accomplished all of these things in my life so far while dealing with all of this stuff, what's possible for me now, now that I've figured everything out. So, man, I can't wait. to see what's next for him. Snap a screenshot and tag us. Let us know you were listening to this.

Let us know what stood out for you the most here. He's at Santana underscore proud. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And I saw this quote on social media. I shared it on my Instagram story, but man, it's so powerful. People pray for the cake. Then the universe gives them the batter, oil,

icing, a pan, an oven, and they get frustrated and leave the kitchen. Let that sink in. Sometimes you have everything right in front of you, but how bad do you want it? That's the whole quote right there. Man, that's so good. All these quotes, by the way, all the ones that we say here, they're always in the show notes of every single episode.

And so is a link to any and all of the sponsors that we've ever had on Insight. So if there's ever been something that you've thought about, oh, man, I should give that a try or I should check out that website. Go check out the show notes. And just in general, you can likely use the code CVV on any of the websites we've talked about. Sometimes the code is insight, but most of the time, like, the code is CVV. So just try it. Try it really on any of the sponsors' websites that we've ever talked about.

I appreciate you. Hope you enjoyed this conversation. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight, my friends. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes.

So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef?

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