Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mike Santana Wants To Be The Next TNA Champion, NXT Debut, Slammiversary, Shawn Michaels, Sobriety

Episode Date: August 5, 2025

Mike Santana (@Santana_Proud) is a professional wrestler currently signed to TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in New York City to discuss his TNA return and how quickly it came together, not winning the World Championship at Slammiversary and speaking to the fans after, his WWE debut in NXT, getting to work with Shawn Michaels, his ultimate dream match, battling addiction, how close he came to signing with WWE back in 2019 and more!   Quote I'm thinking about: “Taking responsibility means never blaming anyone else for anything you are being, doing, having, or feeling.” – Susan Jeffers   Please support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux  SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv   HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.comMIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Ah, yes, welcome back, my friends, to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for hitting play on this episode. And thank you for making Insight, the number one wrestling podcast on planet Earth. Toss your phone up into the air right now and hit a drop kick on that follow button on Spotify or Apple or wherever you're listening. So excited to have Mike Santan. back on the show. He was on last March right after his time with AEW came to an end,

and he wasn't sure what was next for him. He was excited for what was next, but he wasn't sure what was next. And my goodness, he's done a lot since then. He returned to TNA in April, this time as a single star, not part of a tag team. He also made his WWE debut in NXT, then wrestled in the main event of Slammiversary, which was TNA's biggest show ever. It was a triple threat match for the TNA World Championship, Mike Santana versus Joe Hendry versus Tric Williams. And Mike said it himself. It's not a matter of if he becomes the TNA world champion.

It's when. And I couldn't agree more. It's just a matter of time before that happens. There's so much to catch up on with Mike. He's now been sober for over two years and he says that's what changed his life completely, both personally and professionally. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening to this episode and tag us. He's at Santana underscore proud. I'm at Chris Fanfleet and let's get into this. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome

Mike Santana. Great to see you, man. Good to see you, Chris. The last time I saw you, you were dropping me off at my house. I was. You're a good guy. You know, we look out for each other, right? I saw you at Impact in Irvine, California. Yep. I went there. You know, I'm a massive TNA fan that happened for years. I saw you afterwards and you're like, where are you heading? I'm like, I'm heading home. You're like, oh, I'll give you a ride. I'm like, well, where are you going? And you're going in the complete opposite direction. Yeah, man. So you were going 20 minutes the other way. I live 20 minutes in the other direction. You're like, no, no, no, no no, definitely not. I'll call an Uber. And you're like, no, you're getting in my car. Let's go.

Let's do it. So I appreciate you, man. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, being a good human being and just like, you know, looking out for a brother always goes far. Good to see you back in TNA. I appreciate it. It's good to be back. Yeah. How did that all come together? So I guess a little insider.

The last time we spoke, right? The last time we sat and did the show, I was already, you know, I think I told you, I was already in talks with people and stuff. So it came together pretty quick. You know, everything happened so fast. Like, we did, um, we did to sit down, what, in April? Yeah, I think it was. Early April?

Yeah. Yeah. And three weeks later, I showed up at Rebellion. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, everything happened super quick. And, um, you know, I knew it was a place that I wanted to be and where I needed to be. And, um, it's paid off.

It's full circle because your last TNA appearance was at Rebellion. Yes. And then you come back at Rebellion. Crazy, huh? Right. But you came back as, like, this version of Mike Santana is so different. Yeah. Like, so completely different.

Where do you think, like, things started to change? Change as in... Like, just a different version of you completely. I think, honestly, when I started coming back into wrestling, I had this plan for myself and I had this mindset of, like, I'm going to do it my way. you know and not away were you doing it like before uh when you're part of a team uh it's not always your way right and you have to um uh what's the word um you have to you have to you have to share right

and you have to uh i guess do what's best for the team right this this time i'm doing what's best for me yeah and um well in any relationship right this a given take Absolutely. Absolutely. And as you know, we did great things. You know what I mean? The fact that today people still talk about the things that we did and what we accomplished and stuff is a huge deal to me. Like people, you know, I was talking with a few people and they were like, do you get upset when people bring up it? I'm like, why would I get upset? Like, that's part of my legacy. That's part of my career. And we did amazing things, you know? And now I'm going to continue doing amazing things. But there's not a lot of kids that grow up dreaming of, being a tag team champion. Yeah. Like maybe that's a path to get to something else. Yeah, yeah. But I imagine that you were a kid growing up in the Bronx going, I want to be a single star.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I've said this before. The guys that I grew up idolizing and watching, you know, Brett the Hitman Heart, right? Started as a tag team wrestler, got established and then broke off on his own and look who he is, right? Right. Same thing, Sean Michaels, you know, like. So I When I was doing the tag team thing I didn't really

I wasn't really telling myself Oh I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna do that right I was just focused on the tag team thing and doing that And then you know things happen the way they do and I was like yeah I'm gonna give this a try and I feel like I just wanted to continue challenging myself and continue growing And um yeah Did you feel like things were getting stale as a tag team is that what it was or was it you were just hungry for more.

It was hungry for more, for sure. Yeah. You know, sometimes when you're a part of a team, and we've spoke about this before, like you, as you grow and as you become different individuals, you start to develop different mindsets and different ways of thinking, right? So I think that was the overall thing. And I like to continue growing.

I like to challenge myself. And as I've said before, in this business, if you're not growing, then you're dying. Right? If you're not evolving, then you're dying. So I think that's what I needed to do. You had, you could have stayed in AEW is what you said. I could have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, uh, I, I, I care and I love this too much to just, like, I don't know, man. Like, I just couldn't, I couldn't sit on my ass. I could not do it, you know. That was, that was honestly, like, That whole situation and that whole, you know, time period was a big contributor to my addiction issues too because I was just so unhappy, right? And I didn't know how to communicate that very well because I was angry. And, you know, like they say you can't react off of emotion.

And that was the only way I was going to react. So me not knowing how to communicate that is what, like, made me, uh, I guess, drown into myself. So you were looking for an escape? Is that what it was? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

What were you escaping from? Everything. Unhappiness. The pain I was dealing with losing my dad. The pain of, you know, being unhappy in my personal life. And there was just a lot of things going on at the time. And, yeah, everything was a contributing factor. But, you know, I'm thankful that I'm at a point now.

in my life where, you know, because I never, I think I've mentioned this before, I never did drugs and alcohol for fun. It wasn't fun for me. I did it to escape. I did it to fill a void, right? And I'm thankful that I got to a point in my life where there's no more running. I stopped running. Was it every day? Every day. Like you were looking to escape every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I didn't, I, I hated what I was feeling, you know. And it was just an, and it was just an thing, you know. Did you ask for your release in AEW? Yeah. Yeah. More than once? More than once. Yeah. And what was the response you'd get? It was always, we'll figure it out. And I'm just like, all right, well, I'm going to continue. At that time, I was like, I'm going to continue doing the

Indies and doing what I got to do to continue building myself and staying busy and, yeah. Was that just like, you're asking for your release, not because you want to. wanted to do more. Maybe you did, but it was like, I just want to get out of the situation that I'm in right now. Yeah, I told, I made it very clear when I came back that I wasn't going to come back into a situation that I was in before and that got me to where I was, you know. And I, I was like, you know, as an addict, I put my sobriety first before anything. So I'm not going to go into a situation that is going to compromise that. So I was like, listen, you know, I got to do what I got to do for me.

You had some opportunities to have singles matches in AEW. But it felt different than what you're doing now. Why didn't, I don't know, maybe the cuffs weren't off completely there, but what was different about your single stuff in AEW versus what you're doing now? I don't know, maybe it wasn't something. that they saw in me, which is okay, right? They have their own vision as their company, and that's business, right? So I felt like not a lot went into it on their end. And again, it's cool. Like, I need to do what I need to do for me now. Now I got to go and go somewhere

where I'm going to have opportunity to continue to grow. And you look like a completely different person now. Yeah. Like, you've completely transformed your body. Where'd that begin? I have to give a shout out to Josh Alexander. Josh is one of my best friends. I wrestled him in January of 24, I think. And I was still a little heavy. I was still like getting my footing with being on the road more and traveling and all that

stuff. And I had a match with him. and I consider Josh to be one of the best wrestlers in the world, like I always have. And I have such an immense respect for him. And I went into that match, and I remember how nervous I was. And I remember telling myself, if I could hang with Josh, then I know I'm good, you know. And I went into the match. We went like 25 minutes, and I was gassed.

And I was like, oh, my God, what am I doing with myself? But no, and he'll tell you different. He'd be like, oh, you were fine. Brother, I appreciate how nice you are. But I was dying. It's the Canadian in it. Yeah, 100%. No, but he's also, he's a stray shooter.

But I remember after that match, like, it lit something. It was like he poured gasoline on a already lit fire, and it was a wrap. So it was at that point, like, I just got to improve my cardio. I got to improve my cardio. I got to improve my look. Because I was still a little heavier, you know, I wasn't as lean and stuff. So I definitely knew like, I was like, all right, I survived the match. But now I want to become a machine.

So what did that look like from that point on? I hired a trainer, Cesar, he's the man. He's worked with so many people. So many people. He's the man. He makes it so easy. easy. I mean, he really helped Ethan Page. Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. So I, Ethan was the first person that I actually heard about him from. And I was like, yo, I got to,

because we've, me and says I've spoken before and stuff. So I was like, I got to reach out to them. Didn't he, wasn't he with WWE like years ago? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can developmental. Yeah. And then he went to AEW. He was doing that. That's where I met him at AW. And then, yeah, I got with him. We spoke a little bit. And I was like, yo, whatever, whatever I need to do, bro. You know, and he put together a plan and, yeah, it was off to the races. Yeah, so what's that look like? What's your meal plan look like? It's terrible. I, listen, I live a life of misery, okay? But, but it's all discipline, right? Sure. It's all, being driven and and that's what like you know now I know how to treat myself yeah from time

to time but for the most part I stick with the plant well discipline weighs ounces and regret weighs tons there you go yeah you go but yeah it's I mean chicken rice and broccoli every day yeah and uh you know some days I'm mixing things here and there but for the most part I stick to the basics and I stick to what works and it's work. For your own sanity, what do you throw in there? Because I was on a very strict meal plan when I was working with AJ Sims cement factory. I got in a tremendous shape for my 40th birthday. My escape was fruit flavored gum because no calories. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'd be like, oh, man, if I can have this gum that tastes like Sour Patch kids, it's almost like I'm having them. So I'm never like I was never like a sweet skim.

right? My thing is just food. So it's just food. It's just food, right? Nah, from, like, my favorite kind of food is obviously Spanish food. I love Spanish food, but I love Chinese food too, right? So, especially the hood Chinese food. I don't know. They just sign about it. It's different, bro. But now, like, once, you know, maybe one day on the weekend, I'll, you know, have some Chinese food and just, you know, just get that out of my system. It's like reset. Yeah.

And then it's right off the races. Where are you at with pizza? Because there's so much great pizza in New York. Not a big pizza guy. What? Yeah. I mean, I do, I do eat pizza from time to time. I have an eating pizza in a little bit.

Actually, TNA had like a little after-party thing. for slam anniversary. And it was pizza and I had like two slices and I felt terrible. I was like, why am I doing this to myself? Because it wasn't New York pizza, right? And if I'm gonna cheat, it has to be the best. Yes.

But, yeah, but yeah, Chinese food is the thing. How much of getting into the best shape of your life, the best shape of your career, how much of that is wanting to look like a world champion? Everything. Yeah. And I think, yeah, wanting to be a world champion and also like saying, you know, if I say that I want to be in the main event, I got to look like I'm in the main event, right? And also I just feel good, you know, in general. Like I love how I feel. I, uh, I remember when I wasn't eating healthy and I wasn't like living a healthy lifestyle. I was always in pain. I was always tired. I was, and now I have so much energy.

My pain level isn't crazy, you know. I just feel good about myself. I feel confident. And yeah, I want to be world champ. It feels like you were real close to slammerversary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a finish, though. Yeah, yeah.

Like, you had it. Uh-huh. And then Trick Williams comes in, steals the win. Welcome to Pro Wrestling. Although that was a great finish to give a ton of heat to Trick Williams. Like the crowd hated him for that. Yeah. Yeah.

It was, what a moment. Yeah. Just that whole, the lead up and just the day in general, it was special. It was special. It was like one of those, I said it after, after we went off the air, I got on the mic a little bit because the crowd was just like, I was like, there's a riot rumbling in here. So I got to, let me calm them down a little bit. No, but I went, I told them, it's crazy that I wrestled in that building twice before in a throwaway match, like, you know, four or five minutes or whatever. And I was like, it's crazy. I went from the throwaway to the main event.

And I was like, I went from undesirable to undeniable. And what a journey it's been. And it was like one of those full circle moments of if you believe in yourself, you make anything possible. Yeah. You know. And to have my family there and my daughter there and it was special, man. It was special. And the way the city came out and the way that crowd just reacted.

And it was one of those things, man, that like I remember, and I'd be honest, man, like, I remember. And like I remember the fear that I felt when I finally got my release and it was like, it's over, right? Fear. Yeah. Because you can hope and wish all you want. Nothing is guaranteed. I had a plan for myself.

I didn't put a timetable on the plan. I was like, this is the plan. This is the plan that I'm going to follow, whether it takes two years, five years, whatever it is. I got to do what I got to do. But I remember in the back of my head, like, I just pray that I could continue giving my daughter the life that she has and making sure that she's comfortable and we don't have to struggle and we don't have to, you know. So there was a lot of that, right? It could work.

It could not. But that fear is what made me say I have to do it. I real quick a story my grandmother god bless her um she had the opportunity back in like the early 90s late 80s early 90s to buy a piece of property in the lower east side and um because of her her situation it was kind of unstable she had a fear of not being able to afford it and she had three kids to take care of and all these things so she She ended up not buying it. And that property today is worth like $4 million. And I remember her telling me that story, and I was like, I will never allow fear to stop me from anything. Fear's an interesting reaction to like, you've been wanting your release at this point for a long time. Yeah.

You're finally granted it. So instead of excitement, instead of like... Oh, there was excitement. I'm going to be wrong. I was very excited. All right. But behind that, it was like... Because nothing's guaranteed now, right?

Nothing. So you had a paycheck every two weeks, whatever, it's being direct deposit into your bank account. Now it's like, that's not happening. Yeah, yeah. It's all on you. Yeah. But one thing I've learned about myself too, and I love that hustle. I'm a hustler.

I'm a New Yorker. So that hustle is just ingrained in me. And my daughter got to eat and she will eat. You know, so that's one thing that, like, again, I will never allow my kid to, you know, to experience or go through anything close to what I went through as a kid, you know. So it's time to get to work. And you've built this all yourself.

Like, so there's got to be a certain sense of pride of like, yeah, there was fear. Yeah. But now everything you've accomplished to this point, it's all because of you. Absolutely. And it feels good. And the fact that it, the time span,

which like everything has happened. Yeah. Because I didn't expect it to be, like this, I guess, quick. It's like this last year has been wild. Insane. Yeah. Insane.

But that's just also a testament, I guess, to the work I've been putting in. And like I told myself I have to be nonstop. You know, if there's one thing that I learned, because again, starting on this journey, I wasn't starting from scratch. I was starting from experience. And, you know, the prior experience I had was like, be everywhere. and do everything.

And that was the same mindset that I had, you know, so, yeah. But I think a lot of this is in the way that you see yourself now. Yeah. Because we don't always get our goals in life, but we always get our standards. Whatever standard you hold yourself to, that's what you'll end up getting. Absolutely. And it sounds like you're holding yourself to a higher standard now. Absolutely.

When did that change? I guess when I came out of rehab, man. because I remember one time, like at one point, when I was an active addiction, I would always brush my teeth in the shower because I could not stand looking in the mirror at myself. Like, and who did you see when you saw yourself? I don't even know.

Like even when I, I, so I went back for my two-year sobriety anniversary. And they showed me the picture of my intake picture when I showed up. And I was like, oh my God. Like I don't even know who that person is. And I was like, no wonder why I couldn't like look at that person in the mirror. But I learned to stop running from that and turn around and look in the mirror and love who's looking back. And I love who's looking back.

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treatment options. Hymns.com slash insight. Results vary based on studies of topical and oral monocidone, fanasteride. Prescription product require an online consultation with a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. What was that first day like when you stepped out of rehab? Because you were in rehab 30 days, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so on that 30th day when you leave. It was the scariest thing in my life. because in rehab you're protected you have this routine you're protected you're in a safe place everything is is right there for you right when you leave it's on you now the world is open it's up to you and i remember three days before leaving i had like uh anxiety attack like in my room by myself and i was just like oh my god like what if i can't do it you know and um but again the fear is what was like i have to do it because i knew if i went back

it's a rap like i know i'm very conscious of like what that first drink will do to me it's a rap after that there ain't no coming back did you feel like you were going to be tempted when you left like the temptations are everywhere yeah yeah yeah of course of course but i i was you know there was i was focused on like okay i'm getting out i have a plan uh i'm gonna continue doing the pt to get my knee better i got to go get cleared to get in the ring i got train, I got to do this, I got to do that. But again, the temptation is always there. And I'm going back to the same place where, you know, I hung out and where I, you know, all this stuff. So the reminders were always there. Yeah. I remember like I would go on the highway and I always

got to pass the same exit where I used to go hang out and the same neighborhood or whatever. And it was like, oh, man, a left turn could, you know. So are you waiting? Are you waiting? able to go out to dinner with friends and they're having a drink. Oh yeah now. Now I can't. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that took a little while? Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Like, you can go to a family gathering where everybody's having beer or wine and you're not tempted. I'm chilling. And like, I'm thankful that I'm at that point now. Yeah. But also I'm even more thankful that, like, my family is very conscious of like, like, they don't even bring it around now. If somebody said to you that day that you were leaving rehab,

like if you can stay clean, you'll get a world title shot. Would that be something that was driving you? No, honestly, no. The thing that was driving me was my kid, man. How old is she now? 11 years old. Oh, my gosh.

My little girl just turned two. Oh, man, God bless. Isn't it the best? It is until they turn 11. That one happens. Oh man, you're in for one. No, she's getting into that, like, teenagery, like... Does she still like you?

Oh, she loves me. Okay, good. Her mom, on the other hand, they go to battle every day. But, no, she loves me. That's a good cop, bad cop. Oh, 100%. Yeah. 100%.

Now she's getting into the, like, I have to get used to her being in her room all the time and closing the door. It's like, yeah. Let's calm down, right? Let's not close that door. door all the way. Yeah. Which I, but I trust her and she's fine.

Like, it's just like, yo, I want to see what you doing. Yeah. And you're also like, I kind of miss you. Like, I want to hang out of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But she loves like now when I do local shows or whatever, she's always with me. She goes to the shows and she's my hangout buddy.

So are you her favorite wrestler? Uh, I better be. Shit. We'd have beef for real. Nah, but, um, but yeah, like, you. she that was my biggest motivation coming out was like i just need a you know she saved my life so every day after is is a thank you to her you know when you say that like do you literally mean that 100% like if you continue down that path you don't think you'd be sitting here not at all

wow that's how bad it was yeah if i if she did not write that christmas letter and her mom and her grandmother did not show me that Christmas letter, it'd be a rap. Wow. Yeah. That's like, when I think back on it now, it was like, man, I was like, what was I doing? You know, it was scary, like when I think about it now. You posted something recently about it's not if you win the TNA World Championship. It's when you win it.

Yeah. Do you picture that moment in your mind? Mm-hmm. All the time. What's it look like? it looks like me presenting that belt to my daughter. Yeah. Because again, that's a thank you.

Yeah, she, like I know I'm very conscious of like I show her so much love, right? But I want years from now when she looks back on all this and she shows her her children, like I want them to all understand like how much love I had for them. and how much they um she impacted me you know isn't it amazing like the different gear you switch into when you become a father yeah like how much did your life change 11 years ago it took a while because i uh because i was still struggling with a lot of things even then you know um and um There's times when I look back and I wish I was a little more present, you know, in her younger years. I was there, but I was so busy with working a full-time job, with traveling with the wrestling and really trying to build a name.

So it was like I was gone a lot, you know. I remember being in Germany and like having a panic attack because I missed her first step. And I wish I wish I was there for that You know And does it make you hyper aware now Of like I don't want to miss anything Yeah

Yeah And just in general You know with with Being sober And all these things Like living in the moment It's huge right When I was in therapy

He brought something up that like Open my mind so much He was like You know Anxiety A lot of anxiety comes from being stuck in the past or thinking too far into the future, right? When you think about it, the past doesn't exist anymore.

It already happened. The future doesn't exist because it hasn't happened. All we have is today. There's a quote that I love so much. It's no amount of regret can change the past. No amount of anxiety can change the future. But any amount of gratitude can change the present. 100%.

And I love gratitude so much. to change my life. But I think about that so much. Like anxiety is like projecting into the future what could possibly happen, but will likely never happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now I just, I live for today, you know. You could plan all you want. It doesn't mean it's going to happen, right? You put out this great vignette when you were a free agent. And there were so many great lines in there. How much time did it take you to like write that whole promo out and film that whole thing? Not long, actually. Yeah.

I think to film it and all that stuff, I mean, maybe like two hours or something. You had so many great lines in there. Here's one of them. Success ain't just about wins. It's about how you react to the losses and the failure. Yeah. And that doesn't just sound. like wrestling to me. No, yeah. It's a real life. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's greatness ain't about

what happens in the public eye, but it's all the work that's done in the dark. Yeah. Yep. When I, uh, when I was getting ready to come back into wrestling, like, I didn't want anyone to know what I was doing. That's why I like disappeared from social media. I, uh, you know, stood away from watching wrestling. I was just focused on getting myself together. That was it. I didn't start watching wrestling until maybe like two months before I came back, just to, like, catch up on what's been going on or whatever.

But I stood away from it, you know. Seems like TNA fans are rallying behind you. Like, they all want you to be champion. If you listen to that crowd at Slammerversary, they feel like they got robbed. Yeah, 100%. So it like I feel like when this does happen, there's going to be just a like this is going to be a big moment. Yeah.

I am it's yeah it's going to be it's going to be special man because it's like and that's the thing to the TNA fans they saw the whole process. I feel like you know because I left AW and I went right into TNA and they saw me like in this building face. and going through all this. They've been on this journey with me. And that's a big component of what I've been doing too is like I want everyone to feel like they're taking this walk with me. And there's something about you entering through the crowd that makes it just clear in the visual

that you are with the people. Yes, yes. What was the idea behind that? So honestly, to me in the beginning, it was a throwback to the old LAX days, right? Because we used to come up, we had our own entrance, we used to come out through the crowd,

and I always loved the feeling of getting that raw energy from the crowd before going in the ring. It's like, if you're having a tough day and you're trying to gain some energy or whatever, go walk through that crowd. That'll happen real quick. So originally it was a throwback to that.

And then the more I started doing it and really understanding is like, yeah, like, I'm one of you, you're one of me. You know, we're one and the same. And I want the people to feel that. Like, I said it on the TNA Slamversary doctor just dropped that I felt like walking in that arena and walking to the ring and getting in there, it was like all these people saw one of their own make it, you know. So it's like I want everyone to feel like they're seeing one of their own make it.

Do you ever get any overly excited fans? Maybe patting you in the back a little too hard or something like that? Because I think they know I'll punch them right in the mouth. It's funny because usually there's like a security guy that comes to the crowd with me. Yeah. And he is so because I'm so in the moment and so like riled up. or whatever. I don't know what's happening behind me.

And he's told me some wild shit that's happened behind me. And I'm like, well, like what? Thank God you're there. But he said someone like was trying to get to me and he like pushed him back and they pulled out a knife on him or whatever. And I was like, what are we doing here? Who pulls a knife and a security card? I don't know.

But he was like, yo, did you see that? I'm like, no. I'm in the ring. And, uh, yeah, this was recent too. And I was like, oh. That person got kicked out. They definitely did. Okay.

And he's, and mind you, he's armed. So, brother, you're going to find out real quick. Oh, my God. So. That's scary, dude. Yeah, I was like, well, it wasn't for me. You got to deal with that. That sounds like it happened in New York.

You know what? Somewhere. Yeah, it happened somewhere. No, but, yeah, man. Like, all right. All right, bro. Thanks. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg.

And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claimant, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are.

The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by... Pencode. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. I loved your entrance at Sacrifice. Yeah. It's in El Paso. Oh, of course. When you think of El Paso, so there's only one wrestler who comes to mind. There's only one name. It's Guerrero. Yep. What went into that entrance with the lowrider? So it happened pretty quick, actually. I went, I was down there, I think, the week before,

doing a media tour and the person the guy that helps run the El Paso Arena he was we were all we went to the arena we were looking around or whatever and and also shout out Tessa Blanchard she hit me out

and she was like we were talking or whatever and she was like yo they got a low rider and I was like oh that sounds interesting So one day we go to the arena, we're talking to the guy. And he's like, yeah, you know, we could do different things in here. There's a big entrance here. And I was like, yo, let's go with a lowrider. He's like, we can make anything happen.

I was like, don't tell me that. And he's like, yo, for real. And he gets on the phone right there in front of me. He's like, you have one? All right, send me pictures or whatever. and right there, like instantly. And I was like, I guess we're doing this. And what a tribute, too.

Yeah. You know what I mean? What a, like you said, that, that city, you know, so much wrestling history. And Eddie carried that city on his back, you know. So to be able to do that was very special, especially in the building that his family helped, you know, build pretty much. so it was special and you got to wear an edie grow t-shirt yeah yeah which i feel like before this w w e-tna partnership probably wouldn't have been a possibility i probably would have done it anyways nah um yeah it was man this just looking back on on this entire year man what a what a special time

it's been yeah what was the feeling when you got that call that you were going to appear on I think first, at first, I was just in that work mode. All right, it's another day in the office. It's another day, you know, I'm thankful that I'm getting the opportunity in the trust to represent TNA and go over there and do something cool. And also, I know that they're not just going to bring anybody. So this has to be something special. and, you know, so, but all that didn't really hit me until later. I was just looking at it, all right, another day at work.

Let's do, let's get to work, you know. And then afterwards is when everything hit me. And I was just like, wow, all right, we're on to something good here. Were you thinking at all, like, I don't know if everybody in NXT watches TNA, like. Yeah, I did think like. They might know who I am. Yeah, I was, that was definitely a big, uh, I would have to say worry, but it was in the back of my mind.

Like, oh, man, I'm going to get the who the hell is this guy, you know? But when I showed up to Battleground, I did that first initial promo. And so I didn't hear the crowd back there, right? But when I watched it back and I heard the crowd react when I came on camera, like, oh, man. And then the following week when I came out and I was just like, damn. But also, like, it was humbling, very humbling. And then it reminded me like, damn, I've been doing this a long time. No, but it was very special and getting to work with a lot of the talent there.

And, you know, working on the Shaw Michaels and the special, just everything. The whole experience was top-notch. Had you met Sean Michaels before that? Oh, wow. So what was that first meeting like? You just named him earlier as one of the guys you worked up to as a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was also like, again, like I've been doing this a long time,

and I've had the privilege of working with a lot of people and working with people that I grew up watching. and I used to play with their action figures, you know? So, like, it was another one of those like, oh, man, this is cool, you know, like this is. And then after my first match, I think, and going to him and getting pointers at feedback, I was like, damn, this is Sean Michaels, like, you know, giving me feedback and stuff like that, which was really cool. But again, like, a lot of these moments are very special and cool.

But like, I guess now also a big thing for me is like I look at this as business now. You know, that's another big like difference from before to now. You know, before I was so like in the mindset of like, man, I'm living the dream and I'm doing all this and I'm doing all that. I made my dreams come true already. Let's get to work. You know, so like my, my mindset is shifted in that aspect, you know. This partnership with TNA and WWE still doesn't even feel real. Yeah.

Like, as a fan looking in. Yeah. Like I said to Joe Hendry, I said, if you woke up from a coma. And the first thing you watched was the 2025 Royal Rumble, and you saw the TNA world champion coming out wearing the championship title in the Royal Rumble, you wouldn't, you'd be like, I think what's going on here? It doesn't feel real. Yeah.

And then for him to have a match at WrestleMania against Randy Orton, wild. Yeah. But like for all of this to be existing right now, the possibilities are endless, but it just doesn't feel, it doesn't feel like anything that could have happened a few years ago. Yeah. I think we're in a great place,

professional wrestling as a whole. You know, I think everyone benefits, especially the fans, you know. And, like, thinking back in a day, like, I remember loving when, like, I would see Japanese talent come to WWF or WWF guys go over there or, like, having, I remember what, like, AAA did stuff with WWF back in, like, 97 around there. So seeing all those, like, just the integration of talent and seeing fresh faces and new people and new styles and I think it's great. Yeah, the first time that ECW did something with WWE, I was like, my worlds are colliding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it makes things exciting. Yeah. It makes things like... Because anything can happen. Anything can happen. Yeah. And people love that, right? The, like, that's why going back to Slammiversary, everyone expected me to win, right?

And it's like, get the rug pulled out a little bit, you know. No, but I like not living in a predictable world. Right. And yeah, man, like the fact that the guys and girls like in the business have so much opportunity to work in different places and make a living. And again, everyone wins, man. So now that anything's possible with this partnership of WWE and TNA, who's the dream match for you? AJ Stiles still. Yeah. to me is AJ styles just especially like being

put in this position in TNA as being like that that new guy and the new face and they call me the standard and stuff like that now like I think it would be amazing you know of course there's other people that I'd love to work with over there

and I have a lot of people that I know and that I came up on the Indies with over there but like to me AJ is like the guy. Well, when you think of TNA, like if you're making a Mount Rush more of TNA, AJ Stiles is the first head and then you pick the other three. 100%. Right. Yeah, yeah. Him coming back at Slammiversary was unbelievable. Insane. Special. And he came back with the TNA music. Get ready to fly. I remember, I saw a clip on your show where he's like, I hate this song. I'll never do it.

I'll never come off. And he's like, the only way it's going to happen is if they sneak it in on me. Yeah. Yo. When he came, I remember walking in the back, and I was still getting ready and I was getting in the zone. But I remember walking in the back and I heard the song come on and I stop and I look over. They got him. And I just kept walking. They had to, though. They had to.

AJ Styles coming back home to TNA. They can't play his WWE theme. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have to play. What was he going to do? Like stop, look back and go, yo. we got to redo this the crowd was singing

you are you are I am I am like of course they are yeah yeah awesome what a moment man TNA filled up the UBS arena

like to see where because I remember my first run with TNA was some dark times it was such transitional period right from Jeff to Anthem to Scott

like it was a lot of changes being made and we were still in universal studios and like wrestling in front of 50 60 people you know um to see how far it's come and where we're at today is amazing and everybody seems to be coming together like excited to see tna succeed yeah yeah yeah which is great yeah which is great Like, I, man, in the back at Slammiversary, like, we all, I guess, had a moment where it was like, man, like, it was a joint effort. You know, everyone did their part. Everyone came together. We have such a great team back there.

Everyone has that same mindset. And Slammiversary was like a big, like, celebration of, like, all the hard work that we all put in, you know. And it's only going to get better. When you and Ortiz left TNA in 2019, I know that there were conversations to possibly go to WWE. You ended up choosing AEW. What went into that decision of that time? And how close were you to signing with WWE? Well, so we did the first Jericho Cruz, right?

That was the first time that we met the Bucks and Cody and, you know, the whole elite and stuff. So we got to work with the Bucs and had a great. great match, which probably will never see the light of day. But that was like our first initial interaction with them and meeting them and getting to chat or whatever. And the AEW thing wasn't a thing yet. So we just continued doing our thing in TNA. And then Cody and I always stood in touch. We exchanged numbers.

We all stood in touch or whatever. And I remember being... And then we started hearing the rumblings of the AEW and they could be starting a new promotion and all this stuff. So it was a very interesting time. And then I remember being in the movie theater. I forgot what movie I was watching. I was in my daughter.

And I got a text from Cody. And I'm like, you know, like you're in the movie theater. And then a text comes in and you look down and your eyesight is trying to adjust. Right? So I look and I see, I'm like, oh, damn, what's going on? and such a Cody text, by the way. I opened, I unlocked my phone and it goes, it's real.

It's happening. It's real. It's happening. When is your contract up? And I was like, is anybody else? Like, anyways. So, yeah. So then, you know, we chatted a little bit and, and I gave him my word.

and that was that you know that to me is everything right so that was a big component even when we were having the talks with w v i remember we were we were sitting in a parking line in Puerto Rico where we finally decided and we were going to tell w wu hey we're going to go do this other thing um the main thing that we said is like listen we gave them our word when was your contract up it was up in i think august 2019 so that that happened quickly that yeah yeah yeah because that was all in all out right so that was labor day weekend yeah that was quick yeah so uh yeah and they understood like they they respected it they understood and and um you know a big thing with that was the schedule right and we've

both had young kids at the time and we wanted to be home and you know we were like best case scenario we go to wwee things blow up we're never going to be home and i was like i want to see my daughter grow up you know and thankfully things have changed even now like the schedule is is not what it was but back then it was like we want to see our kids grow up and also um being a part of that like legacy right They were like, yo, you're going to be in the main event of the very first dynamite. No matter what I do, my name is always going to be there, right? So, yeah, a big, you know, part of that was that, like being a part of something fresh and new and that the name was always going to, you know, be there. If you were close to signing with WWE then, were there conversations this time around?

A little bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and I just felt like also, I needed to get more footing behind me. I wanted to do more, you know. Because, like, once you go there, like, you're in that system. Would you have had to move to Orlando?

When this time around? Like, we didn't even get that far ahead. Yeah. But I knew, like, I wanted to do a lot more. I needed to build some steam behind me and really, I wanted, like, I love the Indies. Like, I have such an admiration and respect for the independence. And that's what made me at the end of the day.

And I felt like I wanted to come back and get back to that grind and start learning new things about myself and practicing things and getting to work with the new talent that's out there because there's a lot of new talent out there and they're great. So yeah, I wanted to do more. I mean, and you've reinvented yourself so much. And a lot of it's coming from being

an incredible tag team wrestler to doing what you're doing now as a single star. So a lot of that's probably got to be just like, I want to see what I can do as a singles competitor first. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And really, like, get to know myself in this new thing that I'm doing. Yeah.

And did you do some things along the way that maybe didn't work as a singles competitor? You're like, were you trying things? You're just like, not doing that one again. Not trusting everyone with dives. You had a few that went wrong? Yeah, yeah. And it was like, you know, it's not that hard, bro. You know?

I think the person on the bottom is scared. I think that's what it is too, right? Because, like, I'm not a small guy. Yeah. And to see a guy like me flying is like, oh, all right. But also, like, you know, coming into this, like, thing, it was like, all right, I'm going to be bigger. I'm going to be, like, but I still want to be able to do the things that I used to do. So that was a big part of, like, my training of, like, I don't want to come back and be a shell of myself.

I want to come back, be bigger or whatever, but still move like I used to. and I need to get in the ring as much as possible and work. Do you still talk to Ortiz? No. You guys aren't friendly at all? I mean, there hasn't been communication on his end and there hasn't been on my end. You know, yeah. And I think, like, I don't know.

It's weird. I don't really like. Did something happen to like, like, like, You guys obviously wanted different things in your career, but like personally, did something happen? I don't, like, I'm good on my end. Like I don't hold anything. I don't have, you know, we had our match, our last match. And I feel like it went great.

We let a lot, we let out a lot of steam. We spoke afterwards, and I told them, you know, good luck. And I hope the best for you. whatever and that was it. Like, it wasn't, you know, yeah, I don't know. Like, I, when I was out, there wasn't any communication either.

So it was like, all right, well, I guess I know where we are. It is what it is, you know. You're doing your thing, he's doing his thing? Yeah, he wished you well in an interview. And I'm sure you do the same of him. Did he? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Was that a surprise? Well, somebody brought it up, but I didn't see, like, I didn't see the interview. So I don't know exactly what was said or anything. Look, I'm sure you guys both want the best for each other.

Oh, absolutely. At the end of the day, he's a dad. He has a family, and I want him to be able to continue supporting and taking care of his family, you know, however that looks. And, yeah, I wish him well with whatever he does and whatever he's continuing to do. And, yeah, man, like, I don't carry anything anymore. I don't hold on to anything anymore. Like, I have this thing where, like, I remember in rehab, they used to, the group leaders would always say, like, yo, when you get clean and you finally start living that life, you're going to start feeling this serenity, this freeness. And that's how I feel every day.

Like, I don't hold on to anything. Did it take you a while to get to that point? 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. It's a tough thing in life to, like, not try to look too.

too deep into something or like harbor feelings to not take things personally. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my thing now is control the controllables. Ah, my favorite line. I love that. Leave the rest of God, you know, and that's how I feel. Like I was in the locker room at NXT and, you know, there was like trying to put together this match and it was getting a little stressful, whatever, not on my end, but I'm looking

at people get stressed and, you know, whatever and a shout out Wesley. We've known each other for a long time. And I noticed him looking at me from across the room. And he comes to me, he goes, to see how chill you are now is insane, you know, because he knew me from back then. And he's like, bro, like, you're just so chill. And I'm like, why wouldn't I mean?

I mean, you know, yeah, man. Like, I just, I'm good. What a great compliment, though. Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, because that's, that's West saying to you, like, look how far you've come. Yeah, 100%. 100%.

But I also think that because you've come that far in your own personal life, that's why things are going so well professionally. Thank God. Yeah. Yeah. Like so much has changed since we sat across from each other and you were on the show last time. And that was a little over a year ago.

Mm-hmm. So much has changed. Yeah, I am on the train coming here. And just like the week leading up, I was like, I don't want to get emotional. Because the last interview we did, I was very emotional. Things were still fresh, right? I was still new in my sobriety. And it was the first time that I was speaking publicly about a lot of things.

And just coming here today and now and just everything that's happened in between then and now, it's been pretty insane. Yeah. But I'm super thankful and it's been a humbling experience. And I still feel like I'm just getting started. I love that. Yeah. I think a lot of people could relate to how emotional you got in the last interview.

Everybody's lost somebody. Yeah. You know, and I think that just how open you were speaking about your father, about your daughter, about your battle with sobriety. that makes you who you are. It's your journey. Absolutely. And people can relate to your story

to what they're going through in their own life. And it makes them feel like if Mike can do it, if Mike can get through it and look what he's accomplished, I can get through it too. And that's key, man. Like I always said, if I didn't get into wrestling,

I wanted to do something that was going to help people. And I thankfully got to a point, in my life and in my career where I understand that what I'm doing now is my way of continuing to help people. And again, in rehab, they tell you the way that we, the thing that helps us stay sober is by giving away the gift that was so freely given to us. And if I could share my story and my struggles and what I've been through, um, and in turn that helps someone else, I'm good.

You've helped a lot of people. And just thank you for always being so open. Like, you were one of the most real people that I've ever met, not just in wrestling, but in life. And I appreciate that what you see is what you get. That's it. Yeah. That's it.

I, again, I live with the serenity, so I don't do anything to try to impress nobody. I don't do anything to try to, like, I'm going to be me, take it or leave it. One thing that you'll always get from me is that whatever I do, I'm going to give my absolute everything. I'm a very passionate person when it comes to things that I care about. And I'm sure that blees through with my performances and what I do and how I handle myself in this business and just in life in general.

I'm passionate about being a father. I'm passionate about professional wrestling. I'm passionate about sharing my business. story and trying to help others, you know, so this is what you get. Who do you see now when you're brushing your teeth and you look in the mirror? I no longer see that, that 10-year-old kid that I was trying to protect. I see the amazing man that he turned out to me. And I love that person. I love that. We talked a lot about gratitude during this conversation.

I'll bring it back to that. So, Mike, as we we sit here right now. What are three things you're grateful for? I'm grateful for God. I'm grateful for my family. And I'm grateful that I have this serenity, man, because this is what allows me to do all the things that I do. I'm so excited for what's next for you. I feel like the next time you're on this show, you may have an extra accessory with you. It's funny because the, The last conversation we had, you ended it with the next time that we sit down. I feel like you're going to be in a totally different place, right? Am I calling the shots here?

What else do you want me to put out there? Listen, put it all. Put it all. But, Chris, I want to thank you for doing this and for continuing to do this. And I think what separates you from everyone else is that you're not. you're not digging for anything crazy. You're not like, I love that you're just genuinely just trying to share stories, man. And you do something really special.

And I hope that, like, you're going to leave a crazy legacy behind. I feel like, you know, with what you're doing and how you allow us to just come on here and just talk and not have to worry about, oh, is this person going to do this? or is he going to ask this? Like I told you when we text and you were like, hey, what do you want to talk about? I'm like, I'm an open book, bro, and I trust you. And I think just with the people you've had on here and the opportunities that you've been given,

like, that's a huge, like, people trust you. And that's huge, especially in this game, you know. Thanks, man. Just thank you for doing what you do and keep doing it, man. Like, you give so much of us a platform and I hope you understand like how special it is. I really appreciate you saying that. I'm also just happy to be able to sit here for the last hour and catch up with my friend.

Hell yeah. And I'm, I'm really proud of everything you have accomplished. Thank you. Both as a man and as a pro wrestler. Thank you. And thank you. Like, I'm just, I'm a genuinely curious person. Yeah.

So when I saw you coming out in a low rider and I'll pay you. pass. I'm like, well, that's something I've got to talk to them next time. You know, like, there's little things where it's just like, I'm curious and I want to know the story behind it, but also like, I'll now be a better person hearing, like, from your struggles. You know, we talk about everybody's lost somebody. I lost my sister at the end of last year. It was so tough, so tough. But seeing what someone like you has been able to, you lost your father, I can't even imagine that. And now you're a better person as a result of all of that. I love that. And again, thank you for always being so open. Thank you. It's always great to be able to spend some time with you, whether that's on

camera or off camera. So thank you, man. Thank you, man. Real quick, just because I always like to keep my father alive by sharing things that he would share with me that helped me. And that's him around your neck, right? Yes, he is. He's always with me. I love that. He used to always say, pain is paint. Use your pain to paint whatever beautiful picture that you want to paint. And that's one thing losing him has taught me.

His loss is what really sparked all this. And I've painted a pretty crazy picture here. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you, man. Thank you. All right. Thank you for listening to this episode.

and thank you to Mike Santana for joining us in the studio in New York City. I feel like it's just a matter of time. Just a matter of time before he's the TNA world champion. He said it best. Not a matter of if, but when. Snap a screenshot, tag us and share it out on social media. He's at Santana underscore proud. I'm at Chris Van Fleet on all social media platforms except for TikTok.

Chris dot VanVleet on TikTok if you're on TikTok. and you're looking for me on there. And I'll wrap this one up with a quote from Susan Jeffers. And this seems so applicable to a lot of the stuff we talked about during this episode. Taking responsibility means never blaming anyone else for anything you are being, doing, having, or feeling. Be great. And be grateful, my friends.

We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Ivy Nile joining us for the first time ever. She'll join us on Thursday. and I'll see you right back here for that one. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today.

No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome show podcast. What should be?

Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.