Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mikey Rukus: The man behind AEW's entrance themes and music

Episode Date: August 6, 2020

AEW Music Producer Mikey Rukus sits down with Chris Van Vliet from his studio in Richmond, VA. He talks about how he landed his job creating the music for All Elite Wrestling, what the process looks like from start to finish to create a theme song, what his favorite entrance themes are, the crazy story of how quickly he has had to create a theme, how much fun he had creating Vickie Guerrero's theme and much more! Support the show by supporting our sponsors!DEAL DASH- Get an extra 100 Free Bids upon signup by using the code CVVSHOW at https://dealdash.fm/CVVSHOWBETONLINE- Head to http://betonline.ag and use the promo code BLUEWIRE for your free welcome bonus! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And this is a special one. You may not necessarily know the name, Mikey Ruckus, but you definitely know his work. He is the man behind the entrance themes in all elite wrestling. And if you're a wrestling fan, you would be completely lying if you said you didn't crank up the volume and listen to theme songs in your house while reenacting different entrances or in your car, or certainly why you worked out. I mean, entrance music is such a big part of wrestling. And if you're a lifelong wrestling fan, these songs are quite literally,

the soundtrack to your youth. And Mikey Ruckus is the man who crafts all of those songs, creates all of those moods for AEW. So this is just a fascinating conversation. And thank you for helping to create the mood for the podcast. The amount of tweets I got last week for the combination of interviews we did with Gallozen Anderson and Eric Young was amazing. And thank you for helping to share this show and putting it way up there on the charts.

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All I ask is a little subscribe ski and a little review ski. That's the noise. That's it. So like I said off the top, this one's a special one. Mikey Rockies has one of the coolest jobs in pro wrestling and also one of the most creative ones. He talks about how he got his job as the music producer. for AEW, what the process looks like from start to finish when he has to create an entrance theme. He also talks about how there's been times when he's only been given a few hours to make a

theme and how one theme in particular was finished, ready to go, and at the last second, they had to scrap it and start all over again. This is such good stuff. So let's get right to it. It's Mikey Ruckus. Mikey, how are you? I'm good, man. How are you? I'm fantastic. Thank you for inviting us into your studio. We see a little bit of a tab behind you there. Yes. And again, it's still under construction. I have severe ADHD. So I'll get started on it and I'll get moving. And then I just find something else to do. It doesn't matter what your studio looks like as long as the music that you're creating there sounds good. Sure. Sure.

So you have, I think you have one of the most fascinating jobs in all of wrestling. And for people that that may not know your face. You are the man behind all of the music that we hear in AEW. Yeah, probably about 85% of what you hear. Yeah, absolutely. What's your official title? I am the music production coordinator over at All Elite Wrestling. Some people call me the music artist.

Some people call me the music guy. It is what it is. And I do a little bit more than just the music. I handle a lot of the streaming analytics behind the scenes. I do a lot of the administration stuff when it goes to logging in cue sheets and things like that and handle licensing behind a scene. So there's a lot that goes into this project and into this job outside of just typing away at a beat machine. So when a Rector has new entrance music, you are the man who creates this. That is correct.

All right. So walk me through this concept. Where does it begin for you? So it's a case-by-case basis, and I want to say that nearly every single theme is different. So like in the very beginning, I came from the outside of the wrestling business. I spent close to 10 years in the mixed martial arts industry doing music there, transitioned over to the independent wrestling scene in 2016. And when I came in to AEW, nobody really knew me personally.

I wasn't really friends with anybody. kind of I was shooting my shot, so to speak, and I ended up my work and the people that I worked with previously kind of spoke for me, and it kind of brought me to where I am now. In the very beginning, the communication was strictly between Brandy and QT. They would filter all of the information to me. And as the trust grew and as the creative juices began to flow between everybody, then it included the EVPs, then it included Tony. Sometimes I would get random text messages from Kenny. And then next thing I know, I'm getting text threads where I'm being introduced to talent.

So it usually starts with somebody letting me know, hey, there's music that needs to be done. And then I just kind of filtered the information that way. If you take a back, even a step before that, how did you know that this job even existed? Well, I mean, I really didn't. I want to say like in 2010, I started. started doing theme music. And I was, I was not watching professional wrestling at that time. I was really deep into mixed martial arts and UFC. And I just decided to, out of need for survival, you know, I ran a retail business and I was in retail management, but I needed something to

supplement my income to survive. And I, I piddled around with music for several years prior to that. And I just said, I'm going to make entrance music. And I wasn't even good at it. Like, in the, in the very, I was horrible. When I go to. back and listen to some of the stuff that I did back then. I kind of cringe, but I just, this is what I'm going to do. And I started very, very low profile. I was hitting up people on Facebook, like fighters, independent, regional, amateur fighters and telling stories that way. And it just kind of grew. And of course, everybody goes back to Jim Johnson in the 80s and in the 90s. Sure. And kind of what triggered everything. And a year, I'd say probably a year and a half in,

like 2011, 2012. I had my first track played in the UFC, UFC 142. That was headline by Jose Aldo and Chad. I'm drawing a complete blank right now. But it'll come. What's that? Whose theme was it? I want to say it was Carlo Prater.

It was one of the guys in the undercard, but I knew if I could get one, that there was other things to be had. So it just kind of grew into creating music for organizations. People started contacting me. Fighters started contacting me. I started working with a lot of the top tier guys in the UFC. Next thing I know in 2015, I'm connected with NBC Sports.

So it just kind of grew. And I started seeing an explosion in the independent wrestling scene right around 2016, where the wrestlers were taking their own brands into their own hands and going from territory to territory. I was like, man, this is like old school, but it's new school. And I really wanted to get involved with that. And once I made that transition over, everything just exploded. Were you always musically inclined? Yeah, I mean, I played in a jazz band in high school, and I was in the marching band.

I attribute a lot of the versatility to my band teacher at the time. The first year I went in, you know, I took a guitar class, like my freshman year of high school. and it was all a bunch of headbangers with their acoustic guitars, and I was just kind of there with a classical guitar that my sister gave me, and I wanted to learn, and there was really nothing to learn because it became a jam session. And then my teacher was like, well, I need somebody to play in the jazz band. So the first year I played bass. I had never played bass before.

Second year I came back. He said, I need a drummer. I said, I'll play drums if you bring the drum set to my house for the summer to practice. So then the second year, I played drums. The third year, he said, I need a guitar player. So then I was just kind of off and running after that. So how many instruments can you play in total? Prince always says a thousand.

Drums, bass, guitar, keyboards. I'm learning the violin. I'm having a lot of trouble tuning it. And anything percussion-based, that's always been like my core. you know, being Latino, that stuff. I grew up around rhythm and banging and all it. I used to get in all kinds of trouble when I was a kid for banging on everything, and busting windows every now and then by accident and, you know, those kind of things.

But it just, it's always been kind of my thing. Rhythm has always been there and I've always kind of fooled around with music, but I didn't really think about turning it into something that generated some income until right around 2010. So are you actually playing the instruments, recording the instruments for these themes right there in your studio? Yes. So I do have a drum. I have a drum machine. I have a native

instrument's machine. I have I want to say close to six terabytes worth of sound banks, different virtual instruments and things like that. But I always try to go for, as opposed to your normal kick and snare drumbeat that you hear in some of modern music,

I always try to add a dynamic. I always want people to guess whether it's a live kit or whether it's a synthesized kit. And it's just those little nuances that really bring out the life and bring out the color of a track. So when you're growing up, we're around the same age. So growing up, you know, kid of the 80s and watching wrestling into the 90s, what are some of the themes that really stand out to you as being just fantastic entrance themes? Well, for me, the ultimate warrior was always my all-time favorite when I was growing up. I mean, people can say what they say about warrior. I was

that kid that was just completely into everything he did. Whether or not his matches were the greatest technical matches, I didn't care. It didn't matter to me. But just that fury and that energy. And then as I started to get older and started to learn different styles of music and Goldberg's entrance was always a big one for me. Just there was so much pent-up rage like, like this is something that I can do every day. When I walk into work, I'm, you know, throwing a hand you know, I used to do all kinds of stupid stuff like that, man. I was a nerd, but it was all, it was all good. It's so interesting about what I'm doing themes is you know it's within the first few beats.

You know who the person is. You know the mood that's being set. So that's obviously a very difficult task for you to be able to, within the first few bars, let someone know what this person's all about. Sure. And the funny thing is, is that it's, I listen to music. completely differently than, you know, a lot of other people do. And I understand that sometimes those things take time. And I'll give you an example. So my first, I joined AEW May 1st of 2019.

So I had already done one theme song. I think Naila Roses was the first song that I did for AED. But leading into double or nothing, we had like 15 songs that we had to put together. And, you know, we were kind of rapid fire. And we had a lot of brand new talent that was being introduced. and people think they know these talents, but when they get to TV and when they get to a different platform, a lot of things change. There's nuances about their character that changes. There's nuances about how they want their character to be portrayed that changes.

And a lot of people weren't ready. A lot of people said, well, this doesn't fit this person. This doesn't fit this person. But it just takes time to really understand what story that talent is trying to tell. and the music that I've created for them has been a, it's been a melting pot of ideas from the talent, from the EVPs, from Brandy, from Tony, from everybody to make sure that the presentation that we're giving

we're all on the same page about. And it just takes time. Sometimes it hits. Sometimes it takes time. Like last week, Vicki Guerrero's music hit and my entire social media on every platform just turned upside down. It was like it broke the internet. And it all, all because it was the one thing that she's known for is that, excuse me.

And there's no way that I could ever put her over musically. So why not make her voice the centerpiece of that song? And it just, that was one of those rare moments that it hit. But I'd say the majority of the time with brand new talent or brand new music being unveiled, it just takes time to process it and then really kind of understand where they're going with it. With Vicki's. for example. Was that one of those that when you were finished with it? You went, this is a good one. Actually, it's, it's not even finished yet. Oh, so there was, there was some back and forth as to whether

she was going to have any music and I was under the impression that there wasn't going to be any music. And I think the Tuesday night before the show, so I got a call from somebody and said, you might want to get on some music for Vicky. I think there, I was like, I don't think they're going to have any music. I think they said, no, I think. And then I got an email from Cody says, we need some music for Vicky. And this was late, late Tuesday nights. I was like, okay, I'll get on it first thing in the morning. And then it went back and forth again as to what we were going to do. So I had maybe three hours to put something together. And I sat in my office and I'm laughing because I get excited. I'm in here and there's video of my wife recording me when I'm laughing. I'm,

I'm not looking and I'm jumping up and down and I'm, you know, doing this kind of thing with the headphones on. And I turn around and scream and yell, why are you taping me? You know, those kind of things. But I sat in here and I put it together and I just laughed. I laughed and I jumped around. I said, people are going to lose their minds when they hear this. And I knew. I knew, you know, if it played out right.

And it did. And it's, it's been pretty amazing since then. So it's coming out soon. We've got some things in the works with that. but yeah, it's not even finished yet. All right. So we're going to hear version of doing steam. Fantastic.

Is that the quickest turnaround you've had to do for music? No. And I've kind of gotten used to things switching up at the last minute. So Kevin Sullivan is our VP of post-production, and he's been an amazing mentor since the jump. You know, there's not many people that have this job. And there's not many people that I could go to to talk about this and talk about the different ideas. And if I try to talk to another musician, nine times out of 10, it ends up them trying to get a job at AEW. And then if there's other musicians that have done this previously, they don't really want to clue me in on anything that they had to go through.

So I just realized I have to kind of, I just got to rely on my team. So Kevin's been a huge mentor to me. And he explained to me early in the beginning. He's like, this is wrestling. This is the pro wrestling business. Things change on the fly. So you've got to be ready. So there's times where, like, Jeff Cobb's theme comes to mind.

I was actually signing the lease on my house with my wife. We had just walked out. It was on a Wednesday afternoon. And I had had a conversation that morning about Jeff Cobb's theme. We weren't expecting to have that until a week later. We get out of 4 o'clock in the afternoon signing on my house. And I'm heading to my new house. And I get a text that says, hey, how soon can you have that?

a cop theme. And I was like, we're going, we're going back. Let's go. So I'm going and, you know, I had some basic frameworks put together and just did it up as quickly as I could and got it done. And we were off and running. And same thing with the inner circle. I got a call like two or three hours before, hey, can you put together an inner circle theme? And I ended up having to pitch Jericho on what I thought the theme should sound like. And he said, go for it. So I put it together. They send it back and I get the voice text that Jericho likes it.

He thinks it's rad. It's edgy. It's got attitude. Can you add this to it? And we add that to it. And it's all lightning speed. And I've worked fast before. But once I got to AEW and you're creating music for a national television show,

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Bet Online, your online wagering experts. The structure and entrance theme must be so different from the structure of making a song. Like most songs are based around the hook, based around the chorus. What is an entrance theme for you based around?

And it's funny that you bring that up because I'm actually signed to E1, E1 Entertainment, and I have my own solo album coming out later this year. We're just about done with it. And the process between making music that's considered radio ready or for an album cut as opposed to a theme,

the processes are completely different. You have anywhere between 45 seconds to a minute of TV time to get your point across. And this was something that I'm still, I still learn every day. I learn different nuances here and there every day. But you have to have those hits. You have to have the start. You have to have when the talent comes out.

And then you have to have another hit when they hit the ring. So a lot of that goes into it. And there's a lot of different nuances that sometimes it becomes a battle. Like the fans love lyrics, but production doesn't. Because when you think about it, you've got arena background noise that's telling the story. You've got commentary that's telling the story. You've got the talent, whether they're yelling and screaming or posing, telling their story. So if you add another voice behind that, at times, they can get a little bit chaotic.

So there's, you have to kind of know when to use lyrics and when not to use them. And sometimes the talent is, is adamant that they want lyrics. And, you know, so whatever story that they want told is what I tell, what I tell. But writing entrance music, you've got that window. And then with creating music for radio or for an album, you've got months and months to sit and kind of craft each song and peaks and valleys and all this kind of things like that. And it's two completely different worlds. We all know that we have a lot of songs that sound similar. You're like, oh, I don't know this song specifically,

but I know exactly what band this is. How do you make it so that your songs sound so vastly different? So it's funny because I've always, I've played in cover bands for years. And I've always, whenever a talent gives me examples of music that they like, for example, Wardlow wanted something along the lines of disturbed. So I had to pull out the Dave Drayman voiceover, those kind of things. Or if somebody wants a Metallica riff, I got to pull out the Hetfield.

Those things that I've gone back and studied and listened to and played, you know, there are certain nuances to those styles. And that's what makes it so much fun because I don't get pigeonholed. And I said this last night on social media, I don't get pigeonholed as being a rock artist or a hip hop artist. I get to experiment with everything. I get to listen to everything. I get to implement everything.

And that's what it all comes down to, is just constantly taking in, learning new techniques, experiment, trial, and error, and then we get there. So a new talent comes into the company. They've just been signed, and now you're tasked with making their entrance theme.

Where does this begin? Usually it's just the text message that, hey, so-and-so is going to be here. music. Here's their number. How do you decide what type of music that needs to be? I ask them specifically, what style are you looking for? Do you want to transition? Do you want to bring over something that's similar to what you used in another company?

What are you thinking of? So I always want to take the step of letting the talent lead and letting the team lead. I don't ever try to overstep unless I'm asked for an opinion. I don't impose my opinion. When I'm asked, then I give it. But I always want to get, I want them to take the first step. Because we have no idea what they're thinking about. You know, there's times where people just evolve as human beings and as they see their own story.

So they say, well, I want to try this. I've never had a chance to try this when I was in this promotion. So I want to try this. Can we do this? This is where I feel like my character is going. So that's where we get to first. And it all comes down to story. tell them. So if they want to get, if they want to get down into the death metal, if they want to get

into the epic, you know, cinematic hybrid styles, that's all up to them. And, you know, the AEW team is very open to allowing them to be creative. What would you say is a theme song that's taken the most revisions to get exactly how you wanted it to sound? It's funny. It was probably the DDP one that never got used. That could be version two as well. Well, I got an email back when DDP had debuted. We needed something deadly similar to what he had in WCW, which was like it was a twist on Nirvana's smells like teen spirit.

So Dallas and I were on the phone until early, early in the morning. We were just going back and forth, making a bunch of little tweaks here and there, because it was actually a combination of his theme from WWE and his theme from WCW. And we had created something that we really thought was cool. And then we get to TV the next day. And they said, can't use it too close. So, and I was like, oh, that happens. I mean, it would have been cool to play.

But at the end of the day, I go for the experience. And honestly, I'm team. AEW. I get paid regardless of whether it airs or not. So I'm just happy to do the work and we file it and maybe one day down the line we get to hear it. So, but yeah, I mean, we went back and forth quite a bit and we were right there and I was really excited. And next thing you know, it's it's 3 a.m. We're talking about our families and our kids and all the stuff like that. And the next thing, I get the call, he's like, man, we can't use it. It's too close. It's this day and age. We can't do it. I was like, I understand. I was, I should.

I got a tear, but, you know, it was all good. What do you do with the situations where you have to make a theme for someone like Jake the Snake Roberts, who has a legendary theme that fans have known for decades? And now you've got to do a new spin on this. What happens then? Well, I would be remiss if I didn't touch on those legendary things. You know, we all grew up and we have in our minds what those talents were. back in the day, whether it was Jake the Snake, Red Heart, Taz.

I mean, the list goes on and on. When I get those calls that there's a legend coming in, I kind of get that, holy crap moment, and then I go right to work. But I think it's very important to the legacy that we know them and to at least touch on it. And, you know, with Jake's in particular, you know, his theme when he was a baby face. And I didn't know he was going to come in as a baby face or a heel. And, you know, hindsight's always 20-20 and, you know, everybody has opinions on it. But when I heard that Jake was coming, all I could hear was that baby face theme that he had from the 80s.

So I wanted to do something with that and then just take an updated, an updated feel to it. And same thing with Brett Hart. You know, we all know that there's a certain tempo, there's a certain feel, there's a certain vibe. And if I can revive that just to kind of hit that nostalgia, then we, you know, then I feel like the job is done. I imagine there's a lot of AEW themes that play in your studio all the time. So when you're listening to your own playlist, what kind of music is on your own playlist? Oh, man. It's really hard because right now I'm listening to everything that I'm doing for my album.

Like the AEW playlist, it's when I come into the office and I'll get it and it's I live, I work from home. my office is upstairs and when I walk in I don't play around I already know what I have to do I've already planned it the night before so I get in I open up and I'm doing that thing anytime I listen to music is when I'm in the car and I'm listening back to my album just because that's a couple months down the road so we're just about done but outside of that I have to really be invested in studying new music to actually listen because music is in my ears all day long just from production. So when I'm not in here, I don't want to hear it. Like sometimes I just have to kind of turn off and I'm going to go watch like Nat Geo for like 30 minutes or something like that. The incredible Dr. Pol got me all upset. So now I'm going to go and maybe I'll go to the gym or something like that. You know.

But in terms of like AEW playlist, I've really, I got to give a shout out to Little V. And it's not even, it's not mine. Little V and Kenny Omega's theme. I absolutely love that theme. I will strap up and play guitar along with that theme. Just warming up, I'll play that. Maybe I'll do the Butcher Blade theme just to kind of loosen my fingers up and stuff like that. But yeah, man, I mean, other than that, it's like sometimes I just have to turn off.

Well, what were the musical influences when you were growing up? I was big on a little bit of everything. So I was a metalhead, of course. I learned how to play guitar from Metallica albums, the early ones, and Justice for All. And then I went backwards. So I went from Justice to Kill them All to Ride the Lightning into Master of Puppets. And the first time I heard Master of Puppets, I wasn't even ready for it.

Like it was so far over my head. It took me a few months. And it's funny when I think about it now, because I didn't process it like that back then. But I was very all across the board. Old school hip hop was a big thing for me. Run DMC, L, Cool J, Beastie Boys. Prince and the Revolution was always really big in my household.

And even like the New Wave, the British New Wave, like Duran Duran, those guys were so technically talented. And I think the look just kind of overshadowed what their technical prowess was. And you go back and you listen to some of their songs, and man, oh man. Like there's just so much that's happening there. So just growing up, I listened to a little bit of everything. And then, of course, being from a Puerto Rican household, my mom had Celia Cruz and Pente

playing all the time, windows open, dancing in the middle of the kitchen. And it's like you walk in, your friends are looking at you like, what the hell is going on here? I'm just like, oh, bro, don't pay my mom no mind. So, but it's, I'm glad that that happened because it allowed me to consume all of that music over time. This has been fascinating. As we wrap this up, Mike, I know you've given a lot of thought to this, I'm sure. What would Mikey Ruckus' theme song sound like?

Oh, man. I haven't, I've been asked maybe once or twice. I'm kind of like the yell and scream kind of guy. So I would love something along the lines of Sepul Torres roots. That's, that's on Roots, Bloody Roots has always been like, that's my go-to. the first time I heard that song, it changed my life. And if I had an entrance theme, it would be something along the lines of that.

And I wouldn't make it. I would get somebody else to do it. You've got magic in your fingers, my friend. You're doing such incredible work. You're a big reason why a lot of the talent gets over. So congrats to you on that. Congrats on this job. And keep making that magic, man.

Thank you, man. And I will say that this has been, and this is not, I'm not just kind of blowing smoke. This has been one of the most amazing experiences of my life. I've worked towards this and a lot of people don't see this, but for 10 plus years from 2010 to 2019, you know, there were easy 17-hour days where I was running retail stores during the day

and then working on music in the evenings. 16, 17-hour days, six days a week, sometimes became the norm, especially between 2016 and 2019. And I just knew that something was on the horizon. And even though we're in this position, I'm always fully aware that it's we learn every day. We study every day. We sometimes we trip and fall, but we always get back up and we're always looking.

We're always listening and paying attention and trying new things. And that's just how we become better, better musicians, better storytellers. So good. Thank you so much. It's been fascinating. Thank you. I appreciate you having me on. I've been a fan of yours for a long time.

and when you hit me up, I was like, oh, when you replied, I was like, yeah. Yeah, man. Okay, but yeah, I appreciate it. Very much. I just can't imagine how creative you'd have to be to come up with as many theme songs as he has. Oh, incredible.

So a big thank you to Mikey for hanging out with us for this interview. Big thank you to you. And I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Snap a screenshot. Tag me. I'm at Chris Van Vlo. Tag Mikey, he is at Mikey Ruckus, Rukkus. I'm still just blown away by the fact that he created some of those themes in just a few hours, like from initial thought, initial concept to being

played on TNT within just a few hours. Amazing. So if you follow me on Twitter at Chris Van Fleet, I floated the idea out there of having interviews here and there that aren't necessarily with a wrestler or necessarily with someone in the wrestling industry, you know, like Mikey Ruckus. So Chris Jericho does it all the time on Talk Is Jericho. And I'm a big fan of the quote, success leaves clues. That's from Tony Robbins. Success leaves clues. So if Jericho does this on Talk as Jericho, he has people from the wrestling world and just

people he's interested in talking to, I think that maybe I should too. So every once in a while, you're going to see the odd interview just kind of thrown in here every now and then with interesting people who I think that we can all grow and learn from. So keep an eye out for that. Actually, coming up, we've got some wrestling interviews. And then some interviews with people maybe have dipped their toe into the wrestling world. So we've got interviews coming up with Daniel Puter. You know that's going to be good.

Former Tough Enough winner. We have interviews coming up with Vitor Belfour, who we recently saw with AEW. So that, I mean, that's interesting. That'll be very interesting to see how this thing goes down. also got an interview with Mike O'Hern, who's one of the best known bodybuilders in the world and just has, oh my gosh, just a wealth of knowledge to share with all of us.

So keep an eye out for those. Until next time, be great and be grateful. And we'll see you soon. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

Whatever happened to Hammer Alley. How did they go? from top of the rock. I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom.

Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.