Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Mustafa Ali On Leaving WWE, RETRIBUTION, Brock Lesnar Stealing His MITB Win, TNA X Division Champion

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

https://cvvtix.com - Tickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE the day before the Royal Rumble on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis are on sale now! Mustafa Ali (MustafaAli_X) is a professional wrestler previously signed to TNA and WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to talk about his new wrestling school in Chicago called Chicago Wrestling Center, how his injury led to Kofi Kingston's WWE Championship win at WrestleMania 35, being eliminated by Nia Jax in the Royal Rumble, nearly winning Money in the Bank before Brock Lesnar entered the match, the infamous Retribution faction, his viral RKO counter and more! Quote I'm thinking about: "The cost of never taking a risk is spending the rest of your life wishing you had." Sponsors: PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at https://bluechew.com RHONE: Rhone’s premium performance clothing is made to move you. Use code CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV MANSCAPED: Get 20% off plus free shipping when you use the code CHRISVAN at https://manscaped.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleege. Oh, how are you, my friends? Welcome back to another one here on Inside. It's me. It's me. It's CVV. Thank you for being here with us on this one. I know there's a ton of wrestling podcasts out there,

but I appreciate you for coming back each and every episode. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit a Frankensteiner on that follow button. so you don't miss out on anything that we have coming up. We are quickly approaching episode number 700, just a few more to go. 700 will be one of, if not the most requested guests that we've ever had. Yeah, that interview goes live as our last interview of the year on the last day of the year. So make sure you're following the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, really anywhere.

So you don't miss out on that one on December 31st. Today on the show, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Mustafa Ali. You know him from his time in WWE from 2016 to 2023. Then he spent most of his time this year in TNA, where he won the X Division Championship. He was also in New Japan a little bit and a bunch of Indies all over the world. He is just about to open his own wrestling school in Chicago called Chicago Wrestling Center. Classes begin in January, so if you're interested in getting trained, by someone like him who has more than 20 years of wrestling experience,

head to Chicago Wrestling Center.com for more info and to apply. But lots to get into with Mustafa. Snap a screenshot, let us know that you're listening and tag us on social media so we can share it out as well. He's at Mustafa underscore Ali on Instagram. He's at Mustafa Ali underscore X on Twitter. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. and this is his first long-form interview that he's done since leaving WWE.

So I hope that you enjoy this as much as I did. Please welcome Mustafa Ali. Congrats on the wrestling school. Thank you. Man, it looks like the wrestling school too. It is the place to become a professional wrestler. It says so in the trailer. I mean, if it says it, it must be true.

That's marketing. We just talked about this, yes. But the photos you put out, the videos you put out, like this looks incredible. Yeah, I'm really. excited. It's something that's been sitting in the back of my mind for quite a while. But it's, it's located in Niles. It's like 15 minutes from O'Hare in Chicago. And it's just the best of the best, man. I'm going to have the best trainers, you know, AEW, WW, W, TNA, they all come to town. I'm going to invite them to come hang out and train and, you know, do seminars with the students

there. So we launch in January 2025. I'm super excited. And Chicago Wrestling Center.com, wherever it is. what was the idea to do this? Because you're already busy, right? You're a husband. You're a father of three. You're working a ton of independent dates. And now you're going to add something else to that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was definitely a lot of thought that went into it. But it's also like you always want to plan for the future. And I wanted something not that's just financially beneficial to me long term, but also like I want to get back to Chicago wrestling. Like I'm forever a Chicago wrestling guy. I still trained there to this day. But I looked around. I just wasn't satisfied with what's being provided, to be honest with you.

And that's not to, like, you know, shoot anybody down. I just thought, like, man, like, what if there was a place? You know, performance center-esque in Chicago, like the hotbed. Like, you know, oh, you're coming in town, come train here. You're just starting out, come train here. And I truly feel like, you know that, like when you find that perfect gym and you have that gym community and you have one bro that's pushing you or like this person comes in, I want that.

There's so many, like, talented independent wrestlers in Chicago. But I feel like, if I was. able just to kind of gather all of us together, you know? And then obviously with the experience that I have and the mindset that I have for wrestling, being able to teach like TV style wrestling as well. Like I, it's, I don't want to say giving back, but like, I feel obligated to do it in a weird sense, you know. This isn't just a ring in a warehouse.

No, I know that's like the format. Yeah. That's the wrestling school I went to. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was in a barn, actually. A barn. Yeah. My first day of training, I took a bus.

I look over and there's literally a horse like taking a dump. I was like, well, good. A little barn, bro. Yeah. But you've got like all the equipment for like working out. You've got all the machines. Everything's state of the art. It's, you know, weightlifting equipment, cardio equipment.

There's a sauna in there. We're working on getting a cool plunge in there as well. And then there's side services available like meal prep, chiropractic care rehab. So it's like I truly wanted to create like a one stop shop. And then obviously just to make it a destination, you know. So yeah, wish me luck. January 2025.

I don't know when this is going to air, but... Before that. Okay, okay, January 2025. But yeah, Chicago Wrestling Center.com, all the information's there. And then I look forward to seeing you all in the ring. What's the advice you have to someone who says, I want to be a pro wrestler?

Run. The other word. But, like, I can't start for maybe another year because I don't have the money. What do you say to that person between now and, you know, next year? I mean, I think the one thing that comes to... Like, there's never a good time for anything, right? Like one of my favorite quotes is like, man makes plans and God laughs.

Like who are we to know like what's going to happen in a year? I know people are financially struggling. So, you know, if there's one aspect of you not financially being able to go to rest of school, I understand that. But like I've also seen people like cut their cell phone bill and their Hulu and they're going to save up. They're going to go to this school one way or the other. They're going to wait a couple more tables. They're going to pick up every over there.

If you truly want something, like the school opens up in January 25. Like the kids that want to be there, are going to be there. The quote I love is you either find a way or you find an excuse. Yeah, yeah. And I get, you can feel sorry for yourself, but the world's not. It's just going to continue. The school is still going to go. You know what I mean?

Like, I can't wait for you, you know? But the advice I would give to people that are like planning on to going to a rest in school is like, I don't want to say like workout, but like it's intense. Like you have to realize someone else's life is literally in your hands when you're picking them up and you're running and this and that. So fatigue and, and, and, and, and, and, you're, and, and, and, you're, and, and, and, and, and weakness from a physical standpoint is very, very dangerous, both to you and your partner.

So I would say, you know, that would be my biggest advice. And then be prepared for like the mental challenge. I don't wanna say that I'm doing like old school training, but I do feel like there's a lot of schools and I'm gonna make headlines with this, brother. There's a lot of schools that'll take your money. I won't. There's an application form you have to send out.

You have to fill out a waiver and there's a big portion that's called, like, why do you wanna train here? And I don't feel what you're saying off of the, that app, I won't approve the application. You know, I'm very, very blessed and fortunate to be very financially secure. This is literally me doing something because it's a passion project on the side. I still got a million dreams in front of me that I'm chasing.

I'm just not sleeping in the process. But on the side, this is something like, again, I feel like I was obligated to do. And my standards are here. And one way or the other, you're going to meet me here. Like, we don't, we don't accept this. I thought you'd come dressed in a suit today. I wasn't sure. Everyone does it, dude.

See, look at me. I look cool, right? It's almost like you've got your own name there. It's not Muhammad Ali's jacket. Oh, yeah. You know, I'm at a, not a crossroads, but like, shout out to Cody. But like this, I'm so thankful for this independent run because I really wanted to do this politician-ass character on WW programming. And ultimately, I wasn't allowed to do it.

But doing it on the independence, I found that like this, there's a range. Like some people really like it. some people don't like it. And there's some people that think that I'm pushing some sort of political narrative. So not that I'm shying away from it, but I'm definitely evaluating it. I'm like, hey, does this work long term? Because again, if something, this is a super random side note, but this is how sensitive this character can be. In TNA, I had a feud going on with Mike Bailey.

Weeks. And I'm talking about weeks before a real life event happened, we came up with this idea. or after I've been torturizing, you know, Mike Bailey for weeks, and I'm, you know, beating up his friends like that. I'm pulling up into the arena in an SUV. And I have a campaign manager with me. His name is Campaign Sing. And I'm like, man, these idiot voters, they love me.

Watch those, watch us. And I put my window down. And he's like, sir, I don't think that's a good idea. I'm like, shut up. They love me. And we have all these fans going, yeah, yeah, and I'm shaking their hands. These idiots. And as I'm shaking their hands, I go back to sing.

I'm like, they love me. Up here's Mike Bailey. within this crowd. And Mike Bailey grabs me by the throat. He's trying to pull me out of the SUV and Secret Service jumps on him. And I'm like, drive, drive, drive. We drive away.

Later that night in a promo, I say Mike Bailey tried to attack me and what the public has deemed an assassination attempt. We taped this. The week that's going to go live, which is a Thursday, earlier that week,

the incident happens with Trump. Yeah. The assassination attempt. So I'm sitting and I'm watching it. Oh, no. how some people had nothing to do with it, right? A genuine coincidence. So I had to text, you know, TNA and me, like, guys, I don't,

because some people are going to think we're parroting it or making fun of it. And no matter how you feel about someone, like, death is death. Like, I personally don't, like, wish that upon anybody. So I made the call, like, hey, I really think you should edit this clip. So we ended editing that part out, you know. but it just goes to show you the volatile sensitive nature of this character. So like that's why, you know, a little bit more

OG Ali over here. But yeah, I just got to evaluate and see if it's something I want to continue doing long term because of, you know, an incident like that. Well, it's divisive. Yeah, right? Even if you're not saying I'm on this side or that side, people read between the lines and go,

I don't know. Yeah. Maybe he's a little bit more red or more blue. Yeah. And the idea about it was to kind of just show what every politician is. You know, I promise you that. Chris, I got you.

I believe in you because I want you to do better. And then once I'm in office, you're like, hey, remember that thing? I go, these things take time. The idea was just to bring the nuances of politics into pro wrestling because we had this conversation off air before. But politics is pro wrestling and pro wrestling is politics. They're all intertwined, right? Like, you know, what's the debate?

All these politicians come out to awesome theme music and they all have catchphrases and comeos on the other guys. So it's pro wrestling. I wanted to bring the nuance of that, this politician, secret service debates. Like, you know, like, all that stuff is fun, you know, and I have so many ideas on how to do it in a fun way. It was never meant to be controversial,

but I do think sometimes the best pro wrestling is when we put up a mirror to reality. Like, to me, this is what a politician is nowadays. A guy that will look at you sincerely say, like, hey, I got your back. Like, if you believe in me, I believe in you. And, like, there's this bond. And then when it's time to, you know, come good on their words, they're backpedal. These things, these things are complicated. They take time.

And it's like, no, you lied to me. Oh, I didn't lie. You just didn't listen correctly. So, yeah, I think there's something there. But it's very interesting about how real life events can affect that. Isn't it interesting, the amount of respect you command when you wear a suit, though? It is. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, this is like, you know, I'll have this a hoodie on when I get to the arena. Nothing, but I walk out. I got to sit up. People like, damn, who's that? Yeah, it's a game changer. There's sometimes when I would be like running late from an interview going right to the airport, I'd be wearing a suit, like a celebrity interview. You'd walk through the airport wearing a suit and everybody's just a checker.

Yeah, yeah. What is this guy? Because they're used to like the lounge wear like the people in their pajamas, they're just waking up. Yeah, I mean, for the most part, I'm wearing the most comfortable clothes possible. I'm wearing the Viori Sunday performance joggers every time I fly. Shout to Viori. They are the best.

Oh my gosh. But every once in a while when I'm rocking a suit, It's like, wait a second. Who is this person? Yeah, yeah. You, perception's reality. So, and a suit commands power. Man, I was a big custom suit guy back in the day,

but I put on a little bit of a little size lately. Muscle mass. Yeah, so these custom suits don't fit like they used to breast. Put on some muscle mass. It's a very heavy investment. I'm also a big custom suit guy. It's funny that you put on just like three pounds. It doesn't.

Yeah. This doesn't really button anymore. And now your custom suit just looks. not so custom. No. So like, yeah, yeah.

It's like, I think, man, these things go like, so now I'm in the dilemma. Like, oh, do I cut back down or I get the new suit?

So where do you feel most comfortable? Man, like 2019, I was like 175 and I was just so agile in the ring. And I think like, I think Osprey talked about too what he put up in size. Like, yeah.

People don't realize, man, like I'm like 195 now. I put on like, you know, good 20 pounds over, over the course of two, three years.

And it's, it gets. difficult to do some of these. Like, I don't, I'm sure I could probably do the reverse 450. Like, everyone wants to bring that back when, like, I would jump backwards. One, it was nerve-wracking back then. I can only imagine how much more difficult it would be. Well, the margin for error is, you know, and the thing is, like, I understand, I'm very appreciative of the move because I feel like it made me stand out in 205 live.

And, like, you know, like, a lot of these live events, like, oh, we need a hot match with the hot, like, oh, Ali's, like, you know. So that was kind of like a cool thing. I remember Pach saying this, Neville at the time, he was like, you know, the thing is that you got to do that every night now. So I'm doing this move and the margin of error was like, like you said, it's very, very slim. And then one day just for like research purposes, I guess, I just did the normal 450. Facing for it a lot easier, a lot safer. And it kind of got the same reaction. And I was like, risking your life daily or like I could do this with my eyes closed the road.

So like I just kind of, no one told me. I just made the decision on my own. I just started doing it forwards. And no one really called me out on it. And I guess eventually someone had asked me. I was like, man, it's just so risky. It's just such a risky move that I don't think it's worth worth it. Maybe once in a while I'll bust it up, but I haven't busted it out in years.

But how do you find out how you can even do a reverse 450? Because it's scary to be standing up there. People don't realize when you're standing on the top rope, it's hot. Yeah. And the thing is, again, it's the whole like, you know, wrestling rings aren't as nice and padded as they think there are the, The cause of concern with that move is the ropes actually. And more for me, I would feel terrible if I heard somebody, you know.

Because you have to realize I'm jumping backwards. So there's a good portion of this move where I have lost my opponent. And the next time I see my opponent is when I'm landing. So either, like, you know, that's why I'll check back once and I got to take that picture. And like, I hope he's still there. You know, again, like margin of error that's a shin or a knee or an elbow across their throat, their face, their head, you know. So yeah, as far as how I I have no idea.

I must have figured out how to do when I was like 16. Because you're 16, you're indestructible. That's funny how that works. So I'm pretty sure I just went up one day. I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll go this. It's like diving boards and trampolines. I have a trampoline kid too. Yeah, my dad got me a trampoline.

And then I bagged him to buy like these huge pieces of wood. I put them in each corner. I took the garden hose. Like an idiot. I didn't ask. I took the gardener. I put like nails in it. He's like, you ruined the garden.

I was like, I want to ring so bad. So yeah, that was my like my little backyard ring for a good portion. A heck of a year for you this year. Thank you. As we're closing out 2024, what's the highlight? Is one of them being on the cover of PWI? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I think I think goals and accomplishments mean different things to different people, right?

So in the industry, that's a high accolade. But to me, it's kind of a full circle moment. I used to sketch a lot, right? And like occasionally I'll take a picture and share it on social. So years ago, I had sketched something. It was me as a child reading the PWA magazine. You know, it just says wrestling magazine. And I got it.

It's this kid with long hair and he's got this backwards skull cap. And there's like a little air bubble. And it says, why doesn't anyone look like? And that was me growing up. And this isn't meant to be like, oh, like, it's my story. It's my reality. I was born in America. I was born in Chicago.

It was a lifelong WWF fan, you know. And the thing is, I was like, man, like, nobody looks like, like nobody. I've got like, Brehart's my guy. Shaw Michaels is my guy. Like, oh, I love Randy Savage. Roddy Piper. That's it. But that was, there was no one that was my guy.

Like, oh, that guy looks like. He talks like, you know, he's got a name like mine. So I drew this sketch thing because I could remember reading all the magazines. I don't know, no one, you know, looks like me. So to come full circuit, like the cover of PWI is a guy named Mustafa Ali. I'm like, man, that name's got a lot of weight to it. And again, I think it's something where one of my favorite quotes I read was, just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Like, that's like, I'm kind of at a loss of words because it means a lot to me. It's like, I grew up where like my name defined good or bad. it defined me and that sucks. You should define you. Who you are as a person, your talents, what you bring to the table, your marketability,

your hard work. That's what I want to know about Chris. I really don't care where you're from. I respect it, but it's not, shouldn't be a deciding factor. Yeah. So to kind of like,

in my ways, like, you know, jump over that barricade, you know, and have a magazine like PWI, put you on the cover and, you know,

yeah, man, it's a champion. It's a TNAX. That's the best super, junior heavy way in the world right there. You know, like, that's like, so again, it's like, you know, I go to these, you know, meet and greets and I mean, and the one thing post-WW is I've gotten a lot more of this with fans, you know, they're more accessible to them.

And I can't tell you, man, one of the coolest things is seeing people like kids that look like me that have the magazine. Oh, Mustafa, must have, must have, we always talk about you, bro, at the mosque. We always talk about like, like, bro, I was like, oh, like, bro, it chokes me up, to be honest with you. It means something because I have a seven-year-old. named Rayan, who's obsessed with wrestling. And, like, he doesn't have to watch wrestling the way I watched it because he sees me.

He sees Mansour. You know, he sees some representation. Oh, yeah, like, I can I be it? My dad's it, you know? So, yeah, the PWI magazine was super cool, not just on a professional level, but, like, on a personal level. Professional, the thing I'm most proud of is probably the story with Bailey at TNA. It was very, like, handpicked.

And I think the world is people. Mike Bailey. I'm sorry. I'm not very good. When we just say Bailey, people go, wait a second. Yeah, yeah. Then they're talking about like Bailey. Who's also awesome, by the way.

That's my girl. Mike Bailey. But Mike Bailey is, I'm so happy for him. I'm very, very happy for him. I find him to be incredibly talented. And when I, when I, when I, when we were able to finally put this, the storyline together, he was just so. So me and Mike are a different performance, right?

right, like in a good way. Like it's just, that's why I think the match was so good. But him and I had this big blowoff for TNA Slammiversary in Montreal. And again, we, it's perspective, right? Like, I'm talking about all this stuff. And Mike and I had to, you know, talk a little bit before the show. T&A did this documentary called The Immersed. And I never knew this.

Mike eventually told me, but I never knew this until I watched the documentary. Mike talked about how hard it is to be a Canadian professional wrestler. Oh, yeah. Although I've known plenty of Canadian professionals, I didn't realize the incredible amount of obstacles that you Canadians have to deal with to come work in America. And, you know, Mike was really,

he really opened up to me about, like, the trials and tribulations he had. And he just got me, so I'm like, man, we're going to kill it. And he told me, he's like, you know, the people that train me and that I'm training now are going to be in the crowd tonight, his friends and his family.

I just felt like, man, I just want this perfect, like, present to give him. You know, I just, like, I wanted it, like, I want it so bad. And this isn't meant to be, like, controversial at all. But the original match that was presented to us was completely different. There was, like, it was, it was ABC,

and I was like, no, it's got to be X, Y, Z. And I was adamant about it. And I had to go, like, meet with the higher ups. I'm like, guys, I know you want it this way. Respectfully, I think you're wrong. It should be this. And the reason why I'm so proud of that match. And I know some people have their, you know, Earl Hebner ended up returning that night.

And he did like the reverse Montreal screw job. He's there to redeem himself. And this is why it's so loaded to me. And I'm sorry that I'm kind of ramly. But like this match meant a lot to me. Because the finish happened. It was the first time in my career that I felt the floor shaking. Like it was shaking.

So I go, I don't care what anyone says. I know I was right. Because this building is, I've never experiencing them. The only time I've ever experienced an arena. you know, of Sideswell Arena, shaking is when when John Cena made his, like, return. I felt the building.

Which one? It was, I don't know what he was doing. It was like, do you remember the episode of Raw where like he was walking backstage and shaking everyone's hand? Yeah, yeah.

And then, like, he was talking to Stu off camera. Yeah. And then they had us all loaded on the entrance way. So if you go back and watch that clip, John comes out, the whole roster's on the entrance ramp. It comes out.

The building is shaking. I've never experienced it my life. I'm like, I'm literally, so, you know, and like John standing at the top of the ramp, he actually looks off to the right. I'm that guy right off camera. I'm looking at. I just go, and he literally goes, he goes, pretty fucking cool, huh? I go, yeah, John Cena. This is pretty fucking.

And I was like, bro, that's when you realize there's levels to this, right? The building. Chris, I can't, the floor shaking. It's also pretty amazing that John Cena, almost like a maestro, is able to go, watch this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he's such a pro, man. Shout out to him. But, yeah, but like, so that happens with Bailey, and I'm so happy with that.

And then to get Earl Habner to come up, and he's super emotional about it because he's talking to me about time, which is something that I value so much. And he's a kid, you don't know about how much time you have. I never, this, the whole thing that happened in Montreal was weighing on me forever. And he's like, I don't think, you know, I'm going to be around longer. and the fact that I got to come back and redeem myself and like Montreal's cheering me and he was just so happy.

And the hug he gave wasn't like that brother like, good job. It was like, I know it meant something to him. And I know that night meant something to Bailey. And it meant a lot to me. So again, like on a professional level, I think that was like a work of art and I'm so happy with that and I'm so happy to work with the people I did.

But those two moments and say, yeah, really define me. I cover at PWI and then the Mike Bailey slam anniversary matches like, If you're not familiar with me, I'd like, go watch that man. Prize Picks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active users. It's the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports because unlike other apps on prize picks, it's just you against the numbers. All you do is pick more or less on two to six player stat projections and watch the winnings roll in.

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The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henko. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. When you were in WWE, they called you Mustafa Ali. When you say your name, it's very different. I say it the right way I mean I'll I'll say it the right way I'll take the blame on that

so when I started with WWE everyone was super nice right and you go introduce yourself and I'm just that guy where it's like I'm the new guy here I don't want to rock the boat

I'm in WWE like how did I see you know like it's very like you know you're taking the back so when you're introducing yourself like hey I'm Mustafa Lee

Mustafa yeah sure you just go with it And again, it's on me. I just didn't have, you know, the balls of the time to correct anybody about it. You even cut promos where you said your name like that. So eventually, I was like, oh, man, they're all just saying it that way. I should just say it too because I think it's just easier for the audience to say it.

Like, I just, I kind of like, and I'm not proud about it. I just kind of like, hey, I can say it. It's not a big deal. But like, yo, it's your name. Like, of course it's a big deal. But at the time, again, just super unsure myself didn't have the confidence or, or, or, you know, really the stock, honestly, to say much. So I was saying my name incorrectly for a long time.

Yeah, like your debut on Smackdown with Daniel Bryan. I say Mustafa. Yeah. Yeah. And again, just, I guess in a way, again, not proud of it, but try to make myself a little bit more marketable, not, you know, like who, like, we've seen the clips. Like that guy's name's too hard. I'm just going to call him Mo.

Like, I didn't want that. And my biggest fear, which came to light, my biggest fear was like, if I correct them and my name's too hard to pronounce, they're just going to call me Ali. which sure enough when I brought up that hey you know I brought up one I'm by the way

this is the correct pronunciation so road dog I explained to me what actually happened was you know when you do live events these producers

they write reports and this is during like a baby face run I think I was working with Shinska Nakamura or something like that and one crowd one portion of the crowd's chanting

Musafah and the other crowd's chanting Ali and it was like a weird chant and it just dies out and it happened a few nights so that got written the report

So whoever makes decisions, I'm assuming it was Vince at the time. I said, just call him all even. Just one name. And that's how you lost your first name. That's how I lost my name. How'd you find out you were losing your first name? I think Road Dog called me. And he's like, hey, I just want to double check.

Like, Mustafa isn't like, it's not like a family. Like, is there something? Does it mean something to you? I go, well, the name means like the chosen one. It means like from the people. Like we've, this is the guy that's going to represent. I'm like, so it means something to be sure. But like, no, I don't want to lie to you and say that.

No. okay cool man we're gonna just by the way we're just gonna call you ali now this is what happened this is the feedback we got we just we think it's good i don't think there's any ill intentions the intentions they want you to win they want you to make money you know we just think it's easier okay yeah rock and roll yeah it's i and i go oh do i have a say and this he goes well no not really okay cool yeah you know so i i understood the intentions and again you had to realize growing up as a Muslim america i was always very insecure about like my perception so in one token i'm just kind of like whatever

is easy for you guys. Now I'm the complete opposite. Like, hey, you can say my name or just don't say it at all. It's up to you. I'm not being trying to watch my language here. I'm not being. Yeah, but what I hate when people present, like, you need to, like, bro, like, we can talk to each other.

Like, you know, it's, hey, by the way, bro, my name is Mustafa. It's M-U-S. Just give it a shot. You know, like, if you don't get it, I'm not mad at it, but I owe it to myself to have my name say you correct. It worked out well, though, because when you were a heel, it became a thing where you were like, you say my name wrong. And it's so weird because as much as people want to dunk on retribution,

I have so many, most of the promo stuff that people talk about is from retribution. So I was on Raw Talk and I think Charlie and Our Truth were the hosts of it. And she had said my name, like everyone said it. And I was like, say my name again. Just say it one way and she said it. And I corrected them. And the way I put so much enunciation in it and such a heel. dickish way. But to this day, like, I have people of different backgrounds that come up to me.

And they go, yo, when you told her to say your nit, bro, I felt that like, right? And they, they, that wasn't my intention. My intention wasn't to make some sort of like, you know, statement. I was just trying to be like a dickhead heel. But I also was like, man, I'm sick of people saying my name incorrectly. I'm just going to correct them, you know? But that translated to a whole different audience that deals with that. And this guy is like, you know, my name is this. But when I go to work, They gave me a abbreviate. They could make me, I have to call myself Moe because my name Mohammed is too much. Like it's, he's like, but I felt that.

And I went back to work. I said, no, my name is Muhammad. And I'm on a name tag that says Muhammad. So like, you don't know when you say something or do it out, like what it's going to inspire. So it's just, yeah, some random clip from Raw Talk and just looking up at someone saying, no, say my name correctly. And it was that awkward silence. And she said it. And I made Artruth say it.

I go, yeah. When you say my name, say it with some respect. My name is Mustafa. Yeah. And I was like, bro, that was the line. I mean, it worked. Yeah, definitely did. And now people know.

People know, yeah. I'm waiting, I want to walk out, so I'm like, Mustafa. Damn it, Chris. I think it's kind of, I don't know, it's like, because people know the name Mufasa. Is that why? I think so, maybe. I never understood it because it's like, there's not like, Mustafa. I don't know.

It's not like M-O-O-O. I was like, there's not O's in there, Mustafa. Like, I'm sure there's going to be some name, you know, some, some dialect that I don't know. I'll have the same trouble. So it's all good. When you look ahead to 2025 with everything you've already accomplished this year, what do you want to do? What's the goal in 2025?

Back to that quote that I said. A man makes plans and God laughs. Like, who knows, man? Like, who knows if I make it home tonight? That was really great. When I got let go, I got the phone call, right? Hey, we're letting you out of your contract. I was doing cardio downstairs.

And, you know, I walk up. stairs. And I look at my wife and hey, I just got like, oh. And instantly I go into this plan. Don't worry. I'll figure it out. I'll make some calls, this and that. And we're having this day. And I'm just thinking like, whoa, it's me. And I got to like, you know, I got to figure this out.

And should you not, Chris, like five minutes goes by. And her phone rings. And she picks it up. And people don't know this. Like months before all this happened, my wife was having really bad neck pain. And we, you know, we'd switch out the pillows. I'd tell her to go get a massage. And it would just get worse and worse and worse.

The point was like debilitating pain. I was like, what's going on? Let's take her to the doctors. So a doctor calls. And yeah, you have a broken neck and you need surgery. Wow. The day I got let go, like 10 minutes later, five minutes later, we find out that she's got to.

My attention and all of my energy, my focus goes. So I understand like the, well, what's nothing? I'm so appreciative every day. and health and the people that I'm with, when stuff like this happens, you really find out like every minute. Everything that we think that matters really doesn't matter. Like this silly thing that we do where we put Spanx on and baby oil.

It's cool. It does none of that matters right. My wife, her neck's broken. And I'm so blessed. I'm so lucky to have like this incredible group of friends back home. You know, a lot of them are doctors and I was just able to like call, call, call.

We got her in for next three. My wife's healthy. She's good. Everything's awesome. But I'm dealing with that, this broken neck, the surgery, the recovery while I'm getting ready for this, you know, world toward them putting together. So to say that I had a lot of my plate would be an understanding,

but I'm saying if I over, I don't want to say overcame, if I was able to handle that and deliver on that and everyone's good and everything's like 2025 is gonna be awesome, you know. So for me to plan, I don't know, you know. I'm definitely branching out with the school. I recently joined great talent group out in Chicago. It's a film and casting agency. Should have taken a meeting while you were here in Hollywood.

Yeah, you know what? I mean, who knows? Maybe I'm doing some business after this. Maybe. But yeah, I think just branch out and see what's there. I feel most of my life I wasted a lot of time because I was scared about like failing. I don't want to do. If I fail, who cares?

It'll make the new cycle. and then the next thing comes up. You know what I mean? Like, I think we're so scared of, like, failure what everyone's opinion's going to be on one of that because now everything lives on social media forever. Yeah.

But I know, you're a big quote guy. I saw something else. I like, love quotes. It's out of context on this one kind of. Like, but it's like,

no one really cares if you don't go to the party. Like, I think we have put stuff like, you know, I'm going to fail. Like, what if I do this and it fails? Like, everyone makes fun of you for like a day. People need to realize that failure is not final.

No, like, doesn't mean that that's the end. You tried something that didn't work, then you just find another way to figure it out. Exactly. And then like, at the end of the day, if you're able to eat something

and you have a roof over your head, and you have people that love you, like you're already kind of winning, considering 90% of the world is going through some sort of calamity right now. There's so much violence and loss and sadness and depression, all that stuff's going on.

The fact that you and I are blessed, and I truly mean blessed to even have the opportunity to chase something. Yeah. That's a win, man. So who cares if you to make it to the top of it? Like, I think people are like, oh, I'm afraid of us. I'm like, we're lucky already. The fact that you and I can say, you're like, man, I really like to do a movie.

That's a, there's someone in the world. Like, how am I going to feed my child tonight? Yeah. How? You know, how do we even? I'm grateful every day that we just even have opportunities. And with what you were saying, I think back to that. I think it was a commencement speech that Jim Carrey gave.

He was talking about how his dad did something that he didn't like for a living. And it dawned on him that like, if you can fail doing something you don't like, why not fail doing something that you love? 100% man. And it's like, and it's not the cliche, like,

you know, life short, like, truly like life is meant to have to listen. What a boring story if you're just like, all right, I'm going to do this and you just, you just make it.

Isn't the cool story about, the twists and turns like, you know, hey, do you want to hear about this Muslim kid from Chicago that was a cop and then was working the midnight ship? But then he made it all the way to WV. He performed at WrestleMania. He performed a Survivor Series. He had some tough times that eventually got let go. But then he pulled, he was able to, you know, pull the plane up from a nosedive and, you know, save his career. And then he went on to do this, this. Like, that's the story, right? But if I go, yeah, I just tried this pro wrestling thing and became world champion, like two years into it, like kind of like.

I don't know, kind of boring, right? So it's like all these twists and turns, like, yeah, man, fail with the smile. Like, live. Like, I think, I think, I understand the fear, like, accept the fear and then just do it anyway. Did you release from WWE come as a surprise? Not surprise that it happened, surprised when it did happen. Yeah, I think I was in NXT at the time. And I actually had a pay-per-view match scheduled that weekend with Dominic Mysterio.

for the North American Championship. And rumor says you were supposed to win that match. I don't believe anything until it happens, as you should have pro wrestling. But, yeah, I don't mind sharing. I think that was a plan. But mind you, the plan was actually to put the North American championship on me months prior. But WWE is so smart with, like, advertising and contract negotiations. So, NXT's network deal was coming up.

And, you know, Sean is awesome. Sean Michaels down in NXT is awesome. He explains to me, he's like, hey, we're going to put the North American Championship on you. What happens is the network deal is coming up. And this is when Judgment Day, specifically Dom is just white hot. I mean, they're still white hot right now, but like Dom was like next level right there. So they were like, hey, everyone in Judgment Day has a championship. We want to put a championship on Dom and we want to spike the ratings for NXT.

Because the idea is if you spike the ratings when the contract negotiates out, it helps you. So this is when Seth was coming and Becky was coming. So I get a call from Sean. He's like, hey, we're actually putting the championship on Dom. And here's the reason. And I go, yeah, that makes total, like, awesome, do it. Like, I didn't expect it coming. Dom's going to come and challenge Wesley and beat him.

Like, great. So we do that. Then we do like a three-way match, which was super fun with Dom, me, and Wesley. And then he's like, hey, Dom's needed back on the main roster. Poor guy was working like six days a week. You know, like that. Yeah. So I think that was a plan.

Was it a surprise? No, because I saw WV stock and WVE in general going this way, my stock just going this way. But don't you feel like that could change in an instant?

I mean, yeah. So this is like the controversial take. I think there's so many talented people in wrestling, not just in WW, and AWA and TNA on the end of it. There's so many, at the end of the day,

it just comes down to production. And I know someone's going to be like, of course, when I step up, up to bat, I have to perform, I have to hit the ball. But you have to be called up to bat. Right? There's a lot of hitters,

but most of them got to sit. And at the end of the day, there's some people in a room that know way more than I do as far as TV rights, advertisements, merchandising, that make decisions. And when they make a decision that this can is going to get pyro, this can's going to get the best music, and we're going to make sure that you make that can look like it's worth a million bucks,

because it's going to make you a million bucks, right? So at the end of the day, it's just production. So, yeah, you're right at the end. But I didn't feel like that was in the cards at that time. So when they got the call, I was, it's weird because it was kind of a sense of relief in a way. Because, you know, I had wanted out prior to that. And when I got like, I asked the typical question like, oh, like, oh, okay, is this like immediate? Like, yeah, we don't longer need it.

This is your 90 days. And like I said, it was a moment of like, oh, man. I'm sad that it didn't work out, but I'm not mad at myself. It's unfortunate, but in this industry, people get let go all the time. And I had talked to friends in mind that got released prior to me, you know, a year ago, something like that. And their number one regret that they'd call me is like, man, I just wish that I fought a little harder. I wish I didn't sit and wait to be called on or have an attitude.

Like, oh, I'm not on the show. I'm leaving early. I wish I fought a little harder. and I can very confidently sit here and say, man, I don't have the, I fought, I pitched, I presented, I produced, a super duper team player, give me anyone, everyone.

I would request to be on main event. I'm not on raw. I'm not, can I be on May, because a lot of people don't want to do it? I'll do it. Can I have the two-seg match? And I would do promos for it. Me and Rickache had a feud on main events.

That got, like, they did huge numbers for them. Like, I saw the analytics. I'm the nerd that, like, I was asking for, like, analytics and stuff like that. But yeah, I walked away knowing like, man, I gave it more than an honest try. Like, I really tried it. It didn't work out. It just had the cookie crumbled, man.

So I'm forever grateful for my time at WWE. At the end of the day, look at like, I have a platform because of them. People know me because of my time in WWE. Yeah. So that's forever. I have a house. This is a little sappy. Like, and I don't mind sharing it because I think it's like, it's a good thing.

I think a lot of people see the cutthroat business. Like, yeah, it's a car. They hire, how they let you go? at the end of the day, when you get hired by WD, this is back in 205, they offered us developmental contracts and exceed development. And one of the contingencies in this contract is you have to move, have to relocate to Orlando. We just bought a house. My wife is pregnant with our second child. I was like, man, like, do I really want to drag her to Orlando? We don't know anybody. Our whole family's there. I was like, hey, you know what? You stay back here. I'm going to get

these smallest, cheapest apartment. And I'm just going to send money home. I'm like, it'll be fine. And for some reason in my head, go, just give me six months. I can somehow figure out six months how to get, how to come back. And if I can't, then like, we'll figure it out. If you want me to quit, I'll quit. But just give me six months. It's like, okay, like, yeah, I'm pregnant, but okay. So I left my wife. She stayed back at our house, but, you know, a bunch of families with her. And this is like a testament to like, I understand business is business and decision made, but I'll always hold Hunter in really high regard. because like four, five months into my deal,

I very like sheepishly go up to him. I go, hey, Paul, like, my son is due in a few weeks. My wife's going to give birth. And like, if it's okay with you, you know, would I be able to go home for the week? Like, I know I go report. A birth of your son? Yeah, I can, dude, you got to realize,

I just started with the company. I'm very like sheepishly moving around. Like, how does it work? Because you have to be in Orlando and you have to report to the PC and they just go, so I'm like, hey, is it okay with you if I could like, stay at home for a week or two and can I fly from school? I don't know how that works. And he like does that.

And like we walk over the corner. He's like, just move back home to Chicago. I was like, well, what? He goes, don't tell anybody.

And just, just, I'll talk to travel. Just move. He goes, there's no, there's nothing greater in your life than being a dad. Go,

go do that. He's like, move back to Chicago. Don't say anything. I was like, dude. And I had this thing in my head. Hey,

babe, give me six months. This is month five. Brother, I flew back home. I flew back to Orlando where my apartment was grabbed all my stuff, just threw it in my car, sub-lease my thing. I threw it, and I just drove straight from Orlando, Chicago.

And like, two days later, my son was born. So it just all worked. And I got to, and the big thing is, like, my entire majority of my 205, like, I got to go home. And a lot of these guys were like still, you know, they relocated everyone down in Orlando. So at the end of the day, like, he didn't have to do that. Like, I'm sure they were like, yeah, go home for a few weeks, but then come back. I got to go, you know, I was there. As much as we're on the road, so like forever indebted to him for that kind gesture, you know?

So like when people bring up the cutthroat business, I'm like, yeah, but like there are these personal connections behind the business, right? So like I look at him as like, he understands, he's father himself. So he understands what it meant to be. So something he didn't have to do and he did it. So if you've got a pretty good relationship with Triple H who's now in charge, Vince was in charge when you got like, oh, there might be a path to lead you back to WWA. I think there's multiple paths, yeah. And the thing is, like, there's good relations there. And the thing with them moving to Netflix is very, very interesting because it just opens, like, I don't know how much the show is going to change as far as dynamic, as far as rating, as far as what they're okay with.

Oh, I think it changes a lot. Yeah, right. It's just like, because, like, from what I saw, like, what my personal take is, they're going to have more of, like, music and celebrity appearances. Like, so Travis Scott's on it, right? Yeah, the debut is here in L.L. at the Intuit Dome, anybody who's anybody is going to be there. I think they're going to treat it like a UFC in a sense. I'm not a big like MMA, UFC guy.

I don't follow. I watch Cocoa Mellon at home, ladies and gentlemen. I have three kids. Hey, we watch Ms. Rachel. Yeah, so you know. So you know, right? But yeah, I think, man, business is so good for them. I do think there's a pathway back there, right?

There's good relations. There's good contact there. Even the release is very like nice. You know, a lot of nice messages were sent. And I think at the end of day, it's on me, right? Like if I build something that's profitable and something that they see like, oh, this plugs in. With wrestling is right place, right time.

Everything is right place, right. It's got to be right for them. It's got to be right for me. It's got to be at the right time. It's got to be at the right time. That's how this happens. But when one person's here, like, if I want to go do this and it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. And if they're going a direction where there's no spot for me, it doesn't think.

It's got to be right place, right time. So here's the right place, right time. You had a lot of opportunities where I feel like you were really. right there. You were really close to making things happen. What's the story behind Elimination Chamber? Just a series of unfortunate events.

That, it's really, really cool because from that came a really tight relationship and friendship with Kofi. Kofi Kingston for those. I should say first name. Oh, the other Kofi? We were in a talent meeting one time when they had someone come in for something

and the guy didn't know the product very well and he kept looking at Kofi and calling him coffee. and it was because Cofi's such a nice guy and he would not speaking of name like he's like right coffee

and like everyone's like and Cofi's like yeah man yeah man yeah elimination chamber was like man it all happened so fast come up to Smackdown

PIN Russell Daniel Bryan losing that effort but I think the next week I like pinned him and I got like AJ Stows I'm like what is going on you know

get the word finally, hey, we're moving you over to Smackdown full time, like you're done with 205. We're going to get you a main roster contract, all that stuff. So it's all happening a million miles per hour. I want to say the week before I got the heads up about like, hey, you're

in the elimination chamber. Could you wrestle like 60 minutes on Smackdown? I was like, they go, yeah, we're going to do like a gauntlet style thing for a place. And I go, yeah, I could wrestle 60 minutes. I'm like, man, I'm doing all this carding that like that.

That week, I have a match with Randy. And just kind of a slip of the boot. So Randy does like the garvin stop where he goes around and he stumps each body part. And one of the things I think the compliment just went to my head like, man, Ali sells so good. Like you hit something. Like he just sells so well. So I want to say Randy had either stomped me like in the stomach something like that. Something that basically made me sit up to sell.

And like, I've watched Randy work for years. And usually, like, it's like stomped and he takes his time and stomped and he takes his time. But for whatever reason, I guess he was feeling like to stomp me again in the stomach. So he went for like two stomps. But when he stomped me, the first time I sat up and the second stop was coming and just caught me right in the eye. And I could feel like the bones.

I felt like my face move, right? And it was like, oh, man. And in a second, I'm like, oh, I'm fine. I knew where I was. I was fine. But Randy keeps him like, like, your eye swell. I'm really bad. Are you okay?

I'm fine. I promise you. I'm fine. I promise you. It's just a black guy. We finished the match. We get back. Everyone's all,

are you okay? I go, yeah, I'm fine. He's just a black guy. Later that night, the finish of smackdown was a big melee to set up the elimination chamber match, right? Like, you know, Eric Rowans with Daniel Brian at the time.

So the spot had called for Eric Rowan to do like the claw choke slam on the announced table. And I take it and I remember landing on a table and I go, oh, no. And the whole. room is just spinning, like violently. Like, I feel like I'm spinning on the table. And I go, I know I'm laying here. I go, I'm messed up.

So, like, like, you probably just got your rocked. You know, just give it a second. I get back. I'm all good. I'm all good. That we can have live events. I'm sorry, this is when I get the call about, hey, can you go like 60 minutes?

I'm like, yeah, yeah, I can do it. And I'm driving to these live events. I was like, man, I something's not right, you know. And I wrestle the first. first night. And I was like, man, I'm going to throw up. Like, I'm not myself. I'm stumbling on myself, but I'm composed enough that I'm okay. The second night, I'm in a tag team match. And I want to say my, my tag team part was actually Ty Dillinger versus like Samoa Joe and Shelton Benjamin. And just things happen in the ring, right? Like, I was looking this way,

but Shelton wanted me to go this way. And he kind of grabs me to give me this turnbuckle move that I do where I get thrown the turnbuckle. It looks like I knock my. out except this time I like really knock myself out right again because I think I'm going here but I get pulled this way get rocked again and now I'm like I can't stand you know Samoa Joe picks me up for the muscle buster I'm able to slip out get the quick pin and I'm out of there and yeah this this part sucks man I'm sitting in the back Indian style on the floor and a referee walks by he goes hey you good I go yep and he knows goes and gets the doc Doc comes, hey, Ali, why don't you come with me? And I go, no, no, I'm good. They go,

no, I'm good. They go, stand up. I go, no, I'm good. And eventually I get, like, bullied into the medical room. And, like, man, I'm grabbing everything I can. Like, yeah, just my back. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay. Hey, do you know where we're at? Yeah. What town are we in? Like, we're here. I'm looking at the wall trying to see, like, you know, I don't know anything. And I'm gripping the table. And like, man, this part sucks because they're like, they wanted me basically to put my hands in front of me. I'm sitting on the, you know, like, little medical table. Yeah.

I'm holding it. They go, put your hands out. Like, you know, so I do this. And, man, I just eat it. And they go, yo, you're, this is like a massive, like, you're, you're not well. So docs, they all put me up. And it's a whole protocol thing where the doc has to stay across you from the hotel room. Oh, wow.

Transport me back home. This is the whole concussion protocol. Yeah. Like, I think mine was pretty extent. Like, I couldn't, like, stand. Like, I'm doing this. Like, it was really bad at vertigo. And so, like, we have to get you home.

home, you know? So WWE ranges for transportation. And yeah, that's what sucks. I'm like, okay, so like, what's the process? Like, can I make elimination? They go, dude, you're, you're out for months probably. No, you know. And then, you know, they asked me to film something at home. I send it in basically announcing like, I won't be in the elimination chamber. I'm like heartbroken about, but I'm going to come back by then. And then this beautiful gift of Kofi mania happens. And Kofi just, God, what a guy. And lightning in a body. And lightning in a body. bottle, the entire WV universe is behind him. He has his magical gauntlet performance.

He has this amazing performance at Elimination Chamber. And like those combined is what fueled Kofi mania all the way to WrestleMania. Now, no way am I comparing, but as a competitor, of course there's some jealousy, right? I'm watching. Could you imagine what a healthy Ali could do in the elimination chamber? But then I go and look at it. I'm like, and I'm so mad at myself. I'm like, if only I, you know, didn't take that bump at the live event.

If I only had, and I'm sitting there kind of like, I could have, I would have been fine. And my wife's like, so you thought it would be a good idea to go in the elimination chamber concussed? Knowing you, I would have tried to scale something. And like, you know, like, you don't. At the end of the day, I'm healthy, happy. Everything works. I'm good.

You know, I'm not. My brain isn't much. WWE did the right thing. They protected me for. At the end of the day, you got to protect these athletes from themselves. Because we have that thing. We get hit. We get up.

The instinct is, I'm good. But you look at what happened with. Kofi and Kofi Mania and go, that could have been me. I don't think so because Kofi Mania is different because I think that was a guy with a decade long career where the fans wielded into existence. I honestly don't think that's what the original plans go for. I mean, the original plans called for me to be in the chamber. I'm guessing here, my guess would have been it would have been Brian versus K.O.

At Mania, that's what I think. Because me and Brian and Kevin Owens had like a fast lane triple threat match. in between that when I like returned, you know? So that's what I think the plan was. I think I think Kofi, the reason it happened is because the WWE fan base was like, this guy has been here for so long, has always deliberate. And it was like, I think it was lightning. It wasn't produced.

It wasn't written. Yeah, I mean, like you can't. So for me to even sit here and have the golf, like, yeah, that could, oh, man, that was Kofi mania's special. And like what it meant, you know. all those videos, you've seen the videos with Chad and MVP when Kofi wins in there, like having a drink of the road. There's this thing on a cultural level, too, that it meant.

And at the end of the day, Kofu man, that's like, there's no top in that. And just on a broader scale, it's great when good things happen to good people. Good things happen to good people. And like, man, and like, I can't tell you, like, the amount of text that he would send me and like checking in on me. And like, he knew he's like, man, this sucks for you. He's like, I'm so sad for you because he felt like I deserve it. I was like, bro, you've been here forever and like, you absolutely deserve this, you know?

But yes, good things happen to good people. And I'm just glad that like I get to look on that fondly rather than like, it would have been different. The guy that replaced me was a complete POS and like, you didn't deserve it. I'm like, oh, man, this guy, you know, it's someone, I have no problem saying. Someone I think more deserving took that spot. When you talk about working with Randy Orden, not a lot of. lot of people get to counter the RKO. Brother, I got a story for you.

I got stories, guys. All fun stories. Let me take a little, what's S3, by the way. Let me get some of it. I haven't cracked mine over and here we go. Oh, that's delicious. So Randy, obviously, the goat, right?

And taught me a lot. I'm forever indebted for our conversation. Randy's a late night texter, by the way. He'll text you back at 3 o'clock in the morning because he's up on his bus, just like, geez. Yeah, I mean, because like when we get done, with Raw and stuff like you're just wiring you're up and he's got someone taking care of him so he's playing video

games or whatever so he'll get back to at 3M but so much knowledge in just the short amount of time that I got to share with him in the ring we're working a hell and a cell pay-per-view match at the event not the not the match itself we're at the pay-per-view

they're calling up PLEs I'm sorry I'm trying to stay so say hip to the lingo air it's a cold match there's no current storyline but we just rely back like well earlier this year you you know concussed me and i missed like so that was the story um and randy and i are talking uh about this match and i was like hey i so i know how to counter the arch and again you're just you're just trying to be respectful he's what do you mean like what's what's the counter and i was like oh i would do this and he's i can see him thinking and he's like

i'm i'm more concerned for you like he's talking to me because if you box that hands you're just going to look like you botched the move and they're going to boo you because they love the RKO so he's like you have to you have to hit this and I almost feel like the extra pressure of him saying that made it worse because I'm like yeah I can do that

all day but I go he's like no you don't understand like if you mess that up you're going to look really bad to the office to the fans thinking of like this guy can't even take an archa it's like you're taking away something like but he's like if you nail it like you think you can do that

absolutely absolutely i can do this 100%. So we get to the match I know Randy Orton's jacked right now right like you know but still back then he was still jacked right so when Randy jumps you gotta realize like I'm like 175 180 of the time

so when Randy jumps up and he grabs me I was like man this is a massive dude and I had all these calculations in my head like wait he's about to land on the mat when he lands on the man he takes a bump the ring moves a little bit more different than a 205 left, right? I was like, oh, I have to handstand while this 280 pound guy is bumping at the same time.

And if my elbows, like, you know, go in, I'm going to mess up the move. Like he said I was going to do. And this is all playing in my head. I was like, dude, like, I'm going to mess this up. And like last second, I was like, you can't mess it up. And like, with everything I got, I just grabbed the mat, kind of the RKO. I roll them up. you see this audible gas, you know?

Yeah, because we haven't seen it before. Yeah, and it's still to this day, like, another, like, really cool moment. Like, again, I just thought it was like, oh, it's a cool move to counter. Like, people bring that up all the time. We do the finish. We get back. And I was forever, we come out. Everyone's, like, high-fiving.

Randy puts it on. He's like, man, we should just put the kid over with that. And then just walks away. I was like, ah! Yeah, we should have right. No, we're going to do it again. But, yeah, super cool to, to share the reason. And I thought it was really cool of him to allow me because it's his finish.

And he could use it. I don't know, you know? Yeah. But he was so gracious of it. And, like, he told me some, like, really, like, deep stuff before. Like, he felt really bad about the concussion. Like, he, obviously he was apologizing at the time. But, like, it's almost like a year or two after it.

Like, him and I were just talking. He's like, hey, man, like, I never meant to tell you, but, like, I really messed up things for you, man. Like, you were, you were here. I go, Randy, like, stuff happened. Bro. I know it wasn't intentional. he goes, no, I just want to let you know. It bugs me that I took that away from you.

I was like, you didn't take anything away. Like, it just happened, man. Look at all the stuff he's been through, surgery-wise and like concurrent in his back. You've given enough of it. But for him to say, I think it shows that, you know, everyone talks about how much Randy's grown over the last few years. I think that's a testament to it, too. You were so close in that money-in-the-bank match. Brother, I got stories.

I feel like, that's the big. So, yeah, I showed up the money in the bank, and they're like, hey, you're winning it. I go, what? Okay. Cool. So this is so funny because they, you know, because I'm one of the shorter guys in the match. So they actually had me climb off the ladder so they could adjust the briefcase. So it's within grabbing distance.

And all day we're putting this match because everyone's like, hey, man, congrats. I'm like, yeah, man, this is awesome. You know, I was like, oh, maybe I can get this briefcase to light up, you know, because I was wearing the light of stuff at the time. Like, I'm thinking, this is one of those. Cloud Nimo, it's like, man, I can't believe this is happening. Because it's not happening. So the match is about to start.

Entrances have started. And I want to say Baron Corbyn's making his entrance. I don't know why. I just have his music in my head. And I have a very funny visual for you. So I'm wearing this light up mask, right? And I'm wearing this jacket that lights up. And I have like a glove.

And they all kind of like wholesale with like, you know, lights obviously. And Jamie Noah comes up. Hey, hey, boss man wants to talk to you. Go talk to boss. I was like, okay. While the entrances are, The anchors are happening. And Vince has his little, like, you know,

his little cheaters on and he's looking up. I come over. Now, my new gorilla is completely dark. So I just have these red light that are flashing on Vince's face and he's all shadowy. So you can see the picture that I see, right? Yeah, yeah.

He's looking up and he goes, change of plans. Do the match. Everything you called. When the time's right, I want you to climb up the ladder and grab the briefcase. someone's going to come out. I want you to hold the briefcase and just have shock in your face.

He's going to run down, tip the ladder over, and you stay down. Do you understand? And again, my lights are just flashing on his face. I see what he's saying, but there's a moment where he goes black and then it's red, black and it's red. And I'm like, copy that, sir. And I just walk away. I'm like, who else could it be?

Yeah. I'm like, it's like, it's a, I'm walking, walk, and I'm like, whatever, my music hitting. So he literally told me, like, right? None of the guys in the match now. Finn didn't know, Randy didn't know, Barron Corbyn's the match, Drew McIntyre, Andrade. No one knew.

I'm the only guy that knows. And I'm walking down. And it's not like I'm like, hey guys, like I'm just focused on the match at this point. Match happens, climbing up the thing. And man, it's just like, I know everyone's like, well, why didn't you just grab the briefcase? I want to be like, because my boss told me.

I think they think in K-Fabe, right? Yeah, yeah. So what I, and here's the thing, that's my immediate response to him. I go, well, brother, my music's playing. Like, he's got a vision. There's no point in arguing this time. So what you didn't see is I climb up the ladder. I got my fingertips on the briefcase.

Brock's music hits. I do the shock thing like I'm asked. And I'm like, they're going to cut to Brock. But at some point to come back to me, they didn't. But what I did is I did the slip thing, where I tried to get it, which you don't see. camera, the briefcase slips out of my hands. So when Brock gets in the ring, you see me

trying to, it just slipped up, I'm trying to regain possession of it so that I'm not just holding it for the whole time. That was my like, oh, cover it up this way. And then I would just tell Vince, like, oh, it slipped out of my hand, you know? So I climb up, I grab it, Brock's music hits. They cut to him. I do the slip. You don't see it.

But when I'm looking down, Brock, like, hits a ladder out the way. And it just completely annihilates a cameraman named Rico. just hits him in the head. He goes down. He needs, like, stitches.

And I'm watching this. I'm like, he's going to murder me. And I hope I'm not, like, destroying, like, the mystique of Brock here, but, like, what a pro gets in the ring, grabs what looks up to me. He's like, hey, kid, you ready? And I'm, yeah? He's like, okay, nice and easy.

One, two, and just the most. And the thing is, he was so nice about the push that I was expecting this violence thing that I like hurled myself off the ladder and I end up hitting the top rope with my mouth, cutting my mouth, completely my fault and like hurting myself and I go down like he just pros pro man

wow and I'm saying that but you can see like if you cut to if you watch it back if you cut to the clip of the guys on the floor selling they're all very unamused that uh you know this match happened that way I remember that week specifically because that was

the week that McFoly introduced the 24-7 championship to a very audible, like, no reaction, then you about to win money in the bank, Brock coming out of nowhere. That was the same week that AEW had its first show. Yeah. And it was interesting because this is May 2019. It was just like, we are so ready for a change.

Like, stop treating us like we're stupid. Yeah. And I just remember I had an interview with Cody that week. And I listed off those two things, 24-7 championship, Brock coming out of nowhere and winning money in the bank. I was like, yeah, like, now is. the time to just have something different, have another option. Yeah.

And I think that like look what it created, right? Exactly. Creation. Competition brings out the best of everybody. And like, again, like, if I'm the only product in town, you're going to take whatever I serve you, pal. You have to. But now I go, oh, they're offering the same thing and a little extra.

And like, okay, you're in competition now. No matter they want to, if both sides don't want to admit it or not, they're in competition, right? And it's great for the fans. It's great for the talent because it's more negotiated. So I think it's great for the industry. So I think AEW is like a huge win, not just for themselves, but for the industry. Because here's the thing.

I always think beyond just the wrestling, like, how many people does AEW employ? Like you think of medical staff, security, production. Yeah. There's some very talented production people like Jean Carlo that worked. They're like super over talent that didn't, you know, have a spot necessarily in WWE. And now they get to go there. Yeah. So it's just like you have to think as the industry as a whole, you know, writers, you know, like, like that or producers, like there's an option.

So it's good for the industry as a whole. And like I think the product is the final result of it too, right? The product has to be better because if I don't like what I'm seeing over here, I'm just going to go watch this. It also gives people like you the ability to be a free agent. Yeah. That wasn't the case for a long time. No, yeah. It's the one show in town.

You either work here or you don't work anywhere. That's it. Yeah, yeah. And I've taken full advantage of it. I think TNA definitely is up in that conversation as well right now. They're doing incredible business. And this partnership they have with WWNXT is only even proving more beneficial. But then you look at their houses they have lately.

You look at the Hardee's. Are there long term they got nicknammett? So business is booming, brother, right? Talk me through the Royal Rumble elimination from Naya Jazz. Oh, yeah. Brother, what's my line lays down? I got stories. So that spot wasn't originally for me.

I don't know who it was for, but someone was not very much okay with getting eliminated by a woman. And I'm at this point where I'm trying to prove that like, hey, I'm pros, pro, I'm down for whatever. And I can kind of see, I think it was Jamie Noble again

because he was some sort of like frantic search. I like to Jamie. I was like, what's the spot? He's like, man, and he like looked at me, he goes, would you be okay with it? And I just go, yep. What is it? Well, Naya is going to beat up our truth.

And then she's going to take everyone's finisher. But before she does it, I just need, I just need her to throw somebody. Like, you know? And I don't know who the original person is. I really don't know. But I remember going like, God, that's like, like, scripted show. It's fine. Like, and me and I are our homies.

So I remember I told Nia, like, hey, I'll do it. And she was so like, thank you. Like I can see the sense of really So I could see why some people were like Oh man that made you look weak I go Naya's shoot strong as hell And you could pick up anyone in this room right now If she was you know

And she tossed me over And so we did the thing like hey Nia Can I do the whole like I'm not gonna hit you Like you know like I did this thing And then she like head butted me pick me up Gets talked about to this day Actually I think the RK on the 619 she took And the Royal Woman gets talked more

But yeah it was a moment of people like Like I could see how some of the guys were like, oh, I wouldn't have done that. But I was looking, one, I didn't have a problem with it. And two, I was looking like, I think that goes a long way to like Vince and to like Bruce. Like this guy didn't have a problem getting the spot over. Yeah. Because that's a moment. Like that's what we want to do.

We want to create moments, right? That was the honest intention behind it. So yeah, it wasn't originally designed for me from what I understand. It's one of the moments that people talk about from that rumble. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's cool.

Naya was super, like, super worried that, like, you know, because she did, like, a Samoan drop backwards. And I was supposed to go to my feet, but, like, me being me, I did, like, corkscrew something. It looked like I landed really funny. And she saw it. She's like, are you okay? I was like, yeah, I'm fine.

She's everyone thinks I hurt people and I don't. I was like, no, no, no. You were fine. You didn't hurt me. I'm totally fine. So she's a sweetheart. But, yeah, the Niamon was very, very cool. And it was just, I took it as an opportunity to, like, step up to, I'm down for whatever.

Let's do it. Let's make this entertaining. Where does your match a crown jewel rank in your accomplishments? So, Mansour versus me and Crown Jewel. Obviously, it means a lot to Mansour because he's from Saudi Arabia, right? And being able to represent your people historically, and this isn't just in pro wrestling. Representation is only brought up when it's profitable.

representation is profitable, then companies are usually like, yeah, hey, check this out, you know? This is a situation where like, even if that was the case, I saw an opportunity where two Muslims could be in a featured PLE match on WW programming, what could this possibly, you know,

mean in the future? And, man, till this day, I'm telling you, and again, I think it's different, if you're wrong with different groups or you're with a certain set of culture, like you won't hear about it. But within my thing, you know, when I go to Friday prayers at the masjid at the mosque, or when I go to religious events or if I'm even in downtown Chicago, go to a, you know, whatever spot, you know, cultural food that, you know,

caters to my people. Like people like, oh, yeah, you and Mansour, like, dude, that was so cool. Like, they know it. They know that match. Again, on a personal level, I think very, very highly, of him. He's kind of like my annoying little kid brother. He's such a goof. Have you talked? Have you met him? Right? No. I haven't met him.

Don't. You'll regret. He's such a... Like, he's like... He's just bouncing off the wall. We talked about caffeine before. He doesn't even drink this stuff and he's like that. He's a wild man. It's only 120 grams. That's not doing it for me. He's not doing it for you. You got to chug it then. Shotgun him.

But, uh, yeah. So, meant a lot. Uh, received a lot of adulation for that match backstage. Uh, we were, were put in a tough spot. We followed Edge and Seth, hell on the cell, 45 minutes. You know, two of the greatest I ever do it. No worries. Go follow that. But yeah, I think very following it. By the way, I forgot to do my line.

I got stories, brother. Crown Jewel, we get there. We get to the arena. Monsour's nowhere to be found. There is a Olympic kickboxer that's basically after the match. I attack Monsur, boo. We're going to send out this Saudi Arabian kickboxer that shoot. No, he's not a

kick, but he's a martial artist. And he shoot, knocked out someone in the Olympics and got disqualified for it because you're not supposed to knock each other. You're supposed to just like, like tap each other. So he knocks someone out. The country loves him. He's beloved. So he comes out and then we're supposed to have a stare off and they go.

And then Bruce Bridger very happily. He's like, yeah, then he's going to throw one of those kicks and knock you out. I go, like, like not really knock me out like he did like two weeks ago, right? And the guy, the guy's, the guy was super, super cool. but like I think again what got a lot of adulation is like there were some higher ups that were ringside and I just took over.

I'm like, hey man, you're going to come in like this. Make sure you open up. So the camera sees you and he's wearing like a, you know, he's wearing like a little disguise. I mean, make sure you very carefully unveil it. They're going to react. Don't move because they're going to shoot you.

Then they're going to shoot me. Then they're going to shoot you again. Then back to me. I go just basically don't move until I start. Like I'm walking him through like a guy. And like you don't have to telegraph the kick man. Just throw it out. be fine. Like, I'm walking through all the nuances about like, camera position.

O'B. I'll tell you. Because, like, you know, he hop in the ring. Like, let's go. No, no, no. You don't hop in. Like, they don't know who you are until you take this off. Once you take that off, they have to register it. And I go, they know I'm in trouble once you do that. So like, that's going to take like three minutes. He's like, wow, how? I go, just trust me, you know? So I think all the higher ups see that. And I got like a lot of like, I don't know, like backstage buzz like, yeah, this guy's a pro. The funny story is

Mansour isn't here. Where is Mansour? This guy forgot to bring his passport. Because he's a Saudi citizen there. So cool, he could get into the country, but he can't get back in the U.S. without his passport. So instead of getting to the arena early

to put this match together, to walk through all the stuff like that, he had to go to like the embassy and get like an emergency passport done. So basically by the time they get him, they're like, The show isn't starting, but like we're really close to show. I'm like, I'm so sorry.

I'm like, don't worry, put the whole thing together. Sit down. So we, you know, we fill him in. And I've worked him enough to know what he would want to do. But yeah, it was just one of those days where like I was just so happy that like I got to do that with him. And more importantly, like, no matter what happens at the end of day, I don't know what I'm going to be remembered for. But I know I've laid a lot of. the groundwork. I kind of cleared a path

a little bit for people of my background and my dissent to come into this industry and not have to play those old preconceived roles. Like, Mustafa Ali has made it normal to just be Mustafa Ali. Like, I don't have to be chic and I don't have to be the evil prince. You know, I don't have to be this or that. I can just be

Mustafai. I could be a politician. I could be positive Ali. I could be the leader of retribution. I could be a hacker. I've normalized that. And though I may have not achieved the highest level the success, I cleared a lot of groundway where like the next generation, I hope that they don't have to knock down nearly as many doors or boundaries. So maybe that's what's going to, and I think that match at Crown Jewel was like a huge milestone in that. Did you know that retribution was not

going to work out from the start? I mean, I think if you have that mentality, then yeah, no, I had the, I had the mentality, like, give me anything and I'm going to make this work. It wasn't my idea, showed up was handed something. The reveal wasn't, the original reveal was not what. I think, I think I said this on, what was it called now on Twitter?

On Axe one time. Yeah, I was like, whatever you're talking about. So the original idea for the reveal was a little bit more convoluted and confusing to me, like what Vince had laid out.

It was a match with MVP and then like hurt business getting involved. The original script call for retribution to come jump on me as well and like drag me out of the ring and kind of like, make it look like they're beating me up.

And then after the layout MVP, throw me in the ring and like, they're standing over me like they're going to kill me. And then for me to start laughing like a maniac and then stand up. And I was like, oh, all right, cool. And I was like, man,

this doesn't like sound like cool. Like, you know, this mastermind behind retribution. Especially in a time when there's no fans. Yeah, yeah. And the other thing was like,

I was getting manhandled by like the guys that like are working for me. Yeah. So I remember I ran. by Samoa Joe who was doing commentary. It's like, oh, bro, he's like, you're the master. Like, you're that's a hacker. Like, no one moves unless you say it, you know? He's like, what if you did this way?

And dude, Joe laid out the whole thing. He's like, you hop out of the ring and you go right up to these, the two biggest, baddest dudes. And you look at them and MVP and all the MVP sold it, bro. The hurt business, they're all like, and this kid's got balls. And then Joe was like, you just turn around with that shit eating grin. And he goes, and you let the audience go. And he goes, and nobody moved.

And dude, the way they shot it was like, because they cut back to MVP and all that. And they're all like, and you can just tell. And he goes, when the time is right, you just tell your boys, get them. And I literally did exactly what Joe had laid up. And I just stood there. All this carnage happens. There's bodies everywhere.

And he goes, and when everyone's down, you just step over the bodies, you know, without breaking eye contact. No one, no one even looks at you because they're like, you know, looking down at you like. And then when you tell them to join. you in the ring, you give him a nod. Then he goes, nobody moves unless you say it. I was like, that's a, that was cool.

So we did it, man. And like that, that, I don't know what the view kind of is on now. That's like one of the highest rated views on YouTube that I've ever been a part of, right? Did I know it was going to fail? I know we had a work cut out for us. I know the names weren't pleasant. The masks weren't pleasant. And it was kind of even more frustrating because there were so many talented individuals

underneath these things. I had tried to save retribution and Vince approved it at first but it just never made error I said hey why do these guys have masks and names and I could never get the why there was no why for it

I go what is retribution I was assured a million times it wasn't something about Antifa I was assured a million times it was A's but I'm going to go what is retribution? Well it's like you know a group that just wants to wreak havoc

but why so I couldn't get the why So I go, oh, well, DiJack has, you know, his ups and downs at NXT. Mia's head or add a dumps down Shane. I don't want to do the typical disgruntal worker thing. I think we do like that. Like, we're going to make sure nobody else goes through what we went through. We're the good guys here.

But how do I explain the names and the mask? So I came up with this idea. I go, I purposely gave them horrible names and horrible masks. And what did you people do? You made fun of them. You made fun of them for their names and the way they look. just like you make fun of me because my name is Mustafa Ali

and I look the way I look, don't you? And just that connection of, I go, and now that so it's like a teaching lesson for Recovolution. I go, you guys see what I go through? This is the world. They'll make fun of you for something as simple as your name.

And once they've, these guys in Richiebos understand that, then they take off the mass and then they like graduated. You know what I mean? So then we reveal this is Diject. This is D.E. this is Mia, this is Shane. We are retribution.

We're like, you know. So that was, I was like, the aha moment I thought. And all the right after, like, yeah, yes. And it was presented to Vince. Vince loves it. Can we get in a row? We don't have time. We don't have time.

So each week, we just kept going out with these names. I'm like, Vince, we really need to cut this promo. We'll put, you know, we just put it out on social media. And that was it. But he never would let us take off the mask or the names. Retribution failed because there wasn't a why. There was never a why. Vince lost interest in it.

Not my story to tell. There was a power struggle between people and retribution was affected because of that. It wasn't directly anything involved with me, so it's not my story to tell. But we suffered because of that. And I think at the end of the day, if there was a why, and if there was some effort behind to make it a legitimate threat, it would have been great. I feel for someone like DiJack because I was his only shot on the main roster. Yeah. So even thing with DiJack, like I'm glad that he got a chance to go back down to NXT and reinvent himself. But it's another thing where you kind of scratch your head,

like big dude can move, cut a promo. Like, yep. Won't bring myself included in a lot of people. Not the first group of talent to like not reach the full potential. And unfortunately not the last group of talent. It's just the nature of the industry. I like, I'm kind of like this, year, I've grown a lot in the sense where, like, I think I was so passionate about it that I would take those failures or those stop and start pushes. I would take them very personally. And now I'm just so level-headed and professional. Like, oh, okay. Like, cookie crumbles that way, man. It's got to,

a decision was made based on some sort of analytics, whether it was merchandise, add revenue, you know, demands from the network. There's things that I don't know. All I know is if you give me this, I'm going to make it as good as I possibly can. And whatever insight you can give me to make it better, great. But that's my job. So I think I'm very thankful for the time away because it's been able, not that my passion has died down. I just think my level of understanding of like,

you got it, you can't take it personal. Right? You like you can't because then when you do it, that's when it gets murky. But I think I just understand like a lot of times just the way the cookie crumbles, man. There's so many talented people across the board that never see the light of day. Yeah.

If you can only control the way you look, you can control the work that you do in the ring, you can't control so many other things. So to bring this full circle back to your wrestling school, what do you tell the talent? Like, yeah, you can work as hard as you want, but like what's that extra thing that you can tell them about maybe it's having the good attitude or, you know,

rolling with the punches? Yeah, so there's a fine line, right? Because you don't want to become the guy that's just... The yes man. Not even like, like, some people deal as complacent. Like, oh, this guy won't have an issue. we can just give him the grunt work or not like, but the same time you don't want to be the diva,

we got to run this by him, and he's going to have a, there's a happy middle ground, and I always think it's like how you present and communicate yourself. There are plenty of times where I've showed up to shows or TV or like that. I go, cool, I got this.

Can I read through it? Can I ask some questions? Why are we doing it this way? I always present it because my intention is honestly, I just want to make it as good as possible. And if I understand the why, it makes it a lot. It's like method acting, right?

You understand what are we trying to accomplish here in this scene? What's my motivation? That's what they always say. So like if you present yourself as that a guy that asks why, because you want to better understand what is expected of you. But there's other people like, oh, I'm not going over. Like what are you like? Did you even read it?

Like read it through. Find out what the next few weeks are like are unfolding to be. You know what I mean? Like what I'm trying to say is there's a fine line between presenting yourself. as difficult as well as just being down for everything. There's a fine line. You got to be a pro. My advice would be, yeah, initially definitely like just any opportunity is a good opportunity,

learn from it. But you always want to conduct yourself professionally. You're going to go to these indie shows and everyone's, you know, t-shirt and shorts, like, show up in a suit. Buy the boys some pizza when you can't. Like, you know, like you act like a pro. Like when you walk into these locker rooms, I'm telling you, man, I'm like, I'm suited up. I'm ready to go.

I get the freshest gear. I'll put on the best match. I have the nicest merch like, you guys are a pro. You don't want to be labeled as just another one of those another one of the boys, right?

It's more than rolling with the punches. You definitely have to take chances and knock on doors. Like, I don't think I would have got hired if I didn't go up to Hunter. The Cruiserweight Classic happened. Everyone got a contract, except for me.

I was the alternate that got called in. So I think maybe there was like a list. I just wasn't on the list. So everyone got a deal and like very sheepishly. I did like two or three NXT, like, you know, extra work things and like, you know, Hideo Tommy. Like, like, beat me up or something like that.

And after that, I just went up to Hunter. It's like, hey, like, you know when you know, like, do you think I'm going to get a contract? And I think he was kind of taking on this criticism. And he goes, oh, you know, it's a, you know, there's so many dogs and so many bones. I can only give up so many bones. It's a timing thing. And I go, okay, he's just politely telling me to like get away. And I, you know, all right.

Thank you for your time, sir. And that week, I got a call. Wow. Yeah. But if I didn't say that, the squeaky wheel. The squeaky wheel. And it was very like, yeah, but I'm pretty sure if you break it down, I was the only alternate in the Cruiserweight classic. Everyone else was on.

Yeah. They had a idea of who they wanted to sign for the good, but yeah. Man. If I didn't ask, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. Well, congrats on everything. Congrats to you, man. Thank you. No, for real.

I was mentioning this to you. I got to say it on air, though, but there's not a time where I don't open up my phone on any platform, X or Instagram or I'm not a big TikTok guy. I'm sure you're there. But YouTube, like you're just everywhere. And you're killing it, man. And you're doing it right. And I applaud the positivity that you bring to the scene because I feel like it's so easy.

Like this interview could just could have been negativity, negativity. And we just, we made it a point to stay on the positive points. And I think that's why I was so receptive to doing it. You're the first interview I've done. Thank you. Yeah. And I mean, yeah. Yeah.

And I think it's a good. it's a good, it's a testament to like what you're doing, man. Like you're doing it the right way and I applaud you. Congrats on all your success. I'm sure you got to meet the rock after this, but I'm glad that you. Yeah, he's my one o'clock. There's enough negativity in the world. It's certainly enough negativity in wrestling.

I don't want to contribute to that. I applaud you. And I think it's also a testament to my team that every time you open up an app, one of my interview clips is there. Everywhere. A bunch of clips from this one. Yeah, yeah. They're going to be there.

The one says, I got a story for you. That's the name of the episode. That should be. I think it's just a testament to all of the people that I work with of like, they're the best. Yeah. And I'm very fortunate to be able to work with them. You're running a tight ship. And I think, again, the presentation of it is just next level.

But you're doing it right, man. So thanks, man. And thank you for being so understanding. We don't need to get into it. But we were supposed to do an interview a few weeks ago. And I appreciate you being so understanding about everything. Absolutely. gratitude is the biggest most important thing in my life.

So that's why I end every interview asking this question. What are three things that you're grateful for? This is the question that I was actually most worried about. Oh, you did your homework. Yeah, yeah. I mean, your clips, like I said, they make the rounds. So I guess I'm my self-person. I kind of want to be different, you know.

But like the thing is I think people are thankful for the same things because at the end of day, we're all human beings. and we want the same thing. One, two, seem to be very similar with a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, family. Family health. Family health, you know? The number one thing that I'm most thankful for is empathy. I feel like my sense of empathy stems from my time as a police officer because I was

dealing with bottom-the-barrel crackhead that had no reason to live. And I was also escorting the mayor in a limo to a town. I've seen both sides. You've probably seen some stuff. Yeah. And empathy. Because I can look at that crackhead junkie or like that. And I talked to them.

It's like, yeah, I used to be a big time lawyer until my wife left me until. And he told me that about, you know, my three-year-old got run over by a car and died. And you hear about these horrific things that these people went through. And then all of a sudden you can kind of understand. how they fell down this dark, dark hole. And now all of a sudden they become human. And I've been able to apply that sense of empathy wherever I go. Like, man, sometimes people just need a break.

They don't need you. Like, you know, your comment or your opinion, like, they're just going through some stuff, you know? So I'm very grateful that, like, I can look at someone and everyone's like very angry at that or has an opinion on it. And I go, let me find out who the person is behind this action. Let me find out what the intention was behind the act. Sometimes we meant, sometimes we mean to do good and we just mess up.

That's powerful. You know what I mean? What is the intention behind the action? So I'm very thankful that I have that mindset in my, not just in my profession in my life. Family, obviously. Sure. My wife, is the, she puts her arms around me. She becomes a cape and I become Superman.

I'm telling you, man, I am not half the man. Would I be able to do half the things of it without her support? I know that's a very cliche, and I genuinely mean that, like, the amount of times that this woman has caught me and prop me back up and, like, fix my tie and get back out there. It's unreal. So I know everything to her. She puts her arms around you. She becomes a cape.

You become Superman. But cry. Yeah, dude. And it gets people, man. Wow. So usually when I say that, the girls all go, ah! I go, no, but like, I'm telling you, like, she, that's really, that's the most powerful explanation I've ever heard of that.

And I love my wife more than anybody on this planet. Yeah, we're lucky. We're lucky. We're lucky. I've never heard anybody put it so perfectly. Yeah. Like, don't she feel like she makes you like, really you can do it? I can't do any of this.

Yeah. And then obviously, like, you know, because of her, I have, like, the three, like, most perfect kids, my Amara, Rayan, Dua, 10, 7, and soon to be three. My household is crazy. I come in. It's like they tell me about their day, soccer, jihitsu, basketball, wrestling, everything is all at once in. I love the craziness.

And I think the last thing that I'm grateful for is my understanding of time. I don't have nightmares, but I do have a very, very clear vision of like, you know, the little time sand gimmick thing with a sand dropping hourglass? Hourglass. Man, I'm so aware of time. like time is fleeting. And I think because I have that perspective, I'm able to do the long nights

or these crazy flights. I'm like, let me just land, go. I have a meeting. You have to like, we're hustling. I'm not, you're not going to win the battle of time, right?

Like time ultimately wins, but like, man, we can give it one hell of a fight. Yes. I'm going to get my, I'm going to get my time's worth, right? And I just think I've met so many people.

I've lost a lot of people, including my dad, where they would sit and just, they wish they had, a little bit more or they wish they chase this or they wish that they're very happy and they know that they're blessed especially like and i keep kind of referencing there's a lot going on in the world today and there's no way that i could like open up my phone without seeing some sort of horrific image and a reminder of like man like life is so precious like we as humans are so precious

and it's this essence of time you know um i'm looking over my three-year-olds playing with her her her stuffed animals and the next thing i know my wife's got broken like it's It just happened. So I'm appreciative that I have the wherewith all the time. And I feel like I did waste a lot of time in my life, and I'm not going to do it anymore. This is why Christopher Nolan is my favorite director. Because every movie is, he's playing with time in some sort of way. Yes.

Right? Intercellar, Inception, Dunkirk, and Tenet is going backwards. The Momento. The ultimate currency. Absolutely. Because it's the only non-renewable currency. You can't get it back. Ever.

Can't get it back. And what's the, I don't know the full quote, but it's like the only thing you spend and you don't know the balances. Yeah. Oh, my God, man. So powerful stuff here, man. What is going on? Let's just do a quote show. Wait, I think we had about 18 of them in this interview.

I'm saying next time we do this, I'll just bring my like, a little cheat sheet of quotes. And I'll bring mine. Yeah, we'll just read it back. It'll be like, instead of a rap battle, it's like a quote battle. I don't have guys in that going, oh! I think I just gave you like a million-dollar idea. Brilliant. All right.

This is our next point venture. We'll do the CVV and Ali quote battle. It's also why Back to the Future is my favorite movie of all time. Yeah, yeah. Because it reminds you of how important time is, how important moments are. If this doesn't happen, then that can't happen.

Yeah, yeah. It's all, it's all the end of day, like, you know, regrets. Time, not, not, not. It's all about time, man. When it's your time, it's your time. So just, you can't get it back, man. Just make the most of it.

I know these are like cliche, you're hurt on it, but like, anybody, watching this, I'm telling you if there's something that you want to do in your life, go do it now. Who cares about the failure? Who cares about the opinion? Who cares? Even to a sense, who even cares about the money behind it? The time is the ultimate currency. So please go, go chase that. What a way to end this. Hey, man. We did okay. Thanks, brother. I appreciate it, man. Chris, congratulations on all your success too, man. Likewise, right back at you. Well, there you go, my friends. I really enjoyed that conversation. I hope that you did as well.

that story about Brock and Vince and money in the bank, that is a classic. Oh, he's got stories. Brother, I got stories. And again, if you're interested in training at his wrestling school, go to Chicago Wrestling Center.com for all of the info, and you can apply on there as well. Very interested to see what 2025 has in store for Mustafa Ali. Snap a screenshot, tag us, and we can share it out on social media. he's at Mustafa underscore Ali on Instagram at Mustafa Ali underscore X on Twitter.

I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And since we were talking about the idea of diving into wrestling training, this quote just seems so applicable. I didn't even mean to do this. It just kind of happened. But it's a quote that I came across this week that I love. The cost of never taking a risk is spending the rest of your life wishing you be great. Be grateful, my friends. Merry Christmas if you celebrate. Happy holidays. We will see you on the next one for some more insight.

Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning. Only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.