Insight with Chris Van Vliet - MVP On Leaving WWE For AEW, The Hurt Syndicate, Matt Hardy Feud, Getting Emotional About KofiMania

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

MVP (@the305MVP) is a professional wrestler currently signed to AEW and known for his time in WWE and TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas, NV to discuss leaving WWE in 2024 and signing with AEW, reuniting The Hurt Syndicate, how close he came to becoming World Champion, his signature entrance tunnel, his emotional reaction to Kofi Kingston winning the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 35, and more!Quote I'm thinking about:  "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't — you're right." - Henry Ford Please support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux   SUPERPOWER: Go to https://Superpower.com and use code CVV to get $50 Off your annual Superpower subscription. Live up to your 100-Year potential. #superpowerpod   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV2025 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 20% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insightFAST GROWING TREES: Get 15% off with code INSIGHT at https://fastgrowingtrees.com   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Greetings and salutations, my friend. Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. I appreciate you for hit and play on this episode. And thank you, as always, for helping to make Insight the number one wrestling podcast on planet Earth. Hit a spear on that follow button on Spotify or Apple or wherever you're listening. something right now. Today on the show, it's CVV and MVP. This is actually the first time ever

that I've had the pleasure of sitting down with MVP for a one-on-one interview like this. He was on the show earlier in the year, but that was with the entire Hurt Syndicate. I also did a few shorter interviews with him seven and eight years ago on my YouTube channel. We talk about those a little bit during this interview. It feels like a lifetime ago that we did those. But this is our first time chatting like this. And man, what a conversation. What a career MVP's had. What a life he's lived. And he has stories for days. A big part of his story was being sentenced to 18 and a half years in prison. He served nine and a half years of that time. And that shaped who he was. It's also how he got introduced to wrestling through a corrections officer when he

was spending time in prison. So we talk about how he came up with the MVP character, then how he got signed by WWE, how dusty roads helped him come up with that iconic entrance with the tunnel. His time in WWE, his feud with Matt Hardy, then leaving WWE, going to Japan, going to TNA, finding his way back to WWE in 2020, forming the Hurt business. And Paul Heyman really helping him to become the manager that he is now. and then leaving WW in 2024, signing with AEW a few months after that, and then reforming the Hurt Syndicate there and what they're doing now.

They just dropped the tag team titles, but man, they had them for like close to a year. They had them for a long time. Tons to get into with this one. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Snap a screenshot and tag us. Let us know what you thought of this one. He's at the 305 MVP. I'm at Chris Van Fleet.

and here we go. Please welcome to the show, MVP. Great to see you. Man, it's, how long has it been since we first met? Our very first sit-down. I think it was 2017, and it wasn't a sit-down, right? It was in the halls of a high school. I think we actually were sitting down in a classroom or something.

I think we were standing at an independent wrestling show. I'm going to look it up to find the actual date. I feel like we were sitting at a day. desk. I didn't do a lot of sit downs at that point in time. But maybe, maybe. I just feel like we were sitting at a desk. It was recorded on my iPhone at that point in time with a microphone.

And look at this high technology you've got now. Like, dude, it's almost 10 years. So you've been in the game. Because like from the time we started, I mean, excuse me, from that date when we did that interview. Yeah. How long had you? I hear it. Wow, look at this.

Brainbuster Pro. Look at us. So we are standing. Okay. I think that's the one. That was, the date on this is February 5th, 2017. We didn't do one at CCW before that? I think we did.

Yeah, let me find that one too. I feel like the first one we did was a CCW. I could be wrong. Cannabis and concussions. I don't remember things. That was also in a, okay, so let's see. There's another one standing in the hallways of a school. Okay, that might have been this.

And which was that? This was after. This was July 2018. But either way, eight years. And look at you now. Look at you now, man. I'm proud of you, man. Dude, thank you.

A testament to consistency and drive. You set out to do something. And now you are a very prominent name in this space, man. Thank you. And you're respected, too. Man, I really appreciate that. I like some of your contemporaries. You don't need to name any names.

No, we absolutely don't. I don't even want to give them the time. day. But you're in the podcast game now, and congrats to you on that. So let me show you how out of touch I am, an old man shaking my fist at the clouds. When I established marking out with MVP and Dwayne Swayze, that's the name of the show, I said, I want to have a YouTube show. And, you know, if you check it out, you see good production, it shot well, you know, and I presented it as a YouTube show. Yeah.

And I had people coming up to me, hey, man. congratulations on the podcast. Congratulations. I don't do a podcast. I do a YouTube show. And then Dwayne Swayze, he said, no, no, Pete. Everything is a podcast now. But how can it be a podcast when a podcast was audio for iPods?

Yeah. iPods don't even exist anymore. So how is it a podcast? Okay. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, podcast. Yeah, you got a podcast. I have a podcast.

So everybody watching this should go subscribe to your YouTube channel or wherever listening to this. Go check out MVP's podcast. Yeah, it's called Marking Out with MVP's podcast. MVP and Dwayne Swayze. And so Dwayne Swayze is my musical partner. We make hip hop together. And he's a tremendously talented guy.

When I first moved out to Houston, the producer that I was working with, Mikael, he said, hey, I got an artist that I work with. He's a huge fan. Is it okay if I bring him into the studio to interview? Yeah, okay, cool. So we met super nice guy. And we actually collaborated on a few things, tremendously talented. And then through the years, we developed a friendship.

And sometimes we'd be sitting in the studio. Just killing time. Excuse me. And he was, hey, Pete, can I ask you about that time on this pay-per-view? Or, hey, Pete, when you're on the road, what are you know? And he just asked me questions and I'd answer. And one day it was like, this is a show. So the premise of marking out with MVP and Dwayne Sweezy is if you were a wrestling fan

and one of your best friends was a professional wrestler, and you could ask any questions you wanted, what would you ask? And that's what we do. He asked me questions that I answer from my 20 plus years of experience, and it covers everything from life on the road. I drop a lot of gyms for young professional wrestlers coming up on how to be successful in the business, because a lot of them forget it's a business at the end of the day.

With that said, what do you think is the biggest change you've seen in the pro wrestling business from when you started to now? The biggest change, accessibility. you know, when I started, I came just on the cusp of the old ways into the new way. I think, like, WWE had just gone public or were just about to go public as a publicly traded company. So when I came in, you still had, you know, the old guys that protected the business. There were gatekeepers even, you know, if they didn't like you, if you weren't tough enough, you know, they'd beat you up and run you off. you know, wrestling wasn't for everybody.

I think now the accessibility with, you know, YouTube didn't exist yet. There was no social media as it exists now for self-promotion. And just anybody couldn't run a show, just anybody couldn't be a pro wrestler. And now, I think you have so much wrestling now. You have so many independent promotions. You have so many people running shows and you have that old bullying thing, that old guard of, you know,

who can be here and who can't be here, that's gone. So you can have these colorful, you know, sometimes ridiculous characters that are comical and there's no one that's going to beat you up for doing that. You know, you can have... And I've always said that I feel like wrestling

is a buffet. A little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit... And you go up, you take some of the way, you want and pass the stuff that you don't want. But I'm not going to have a fit because, hey, who put this liver and onions out here in the tree? They should lose their job for putting liver and onions out here, you know?

Just don't eat the liver and onions and go eat what you like. So I think the biggest thing is it now with, you know, people having the ability to, you know, with the technology to produce their own shows and self-promotion and streaming, you just have so much more accessibility to wrestling. so more people than ever in this space can pursue their passion and dream of becoming a professional wrestler. Yeah, I feel like before the internet was really mainstream, wrestling ended when the show ended. When Raw ended or Nightshow ended, that was it.

You picked it back up the next Monday. Now it's like a 24-hour news cycle. Yeah, there's no shortage of wrestling. You can literally watch 24 hours a day, seven days a week. but I make this distinction because I tell people all the time and I use the analogy do you like burgers or do you like McDonald's? Because there's all kinds of burgers.

If you say, oh man, I love burgers. I'm passionate about burgers but I only eat McDonald's. Well, no, you love McDonald's. You don't love burgers because you've got five guys and you've got In and Out and you've got Burger King and you've got Waterburger, there are so many different types of burgers out there. But to say, no, no, but only McDonald's, that's the only burger.

Okay, well, how ridiculous are you? Yeah. You're doing yourself such a disservice if you're not, to use your buffet analogy, if you're not exploring all of the options that are there. And I've always been a wrestling fan. I think people seem to forget that no matter what show you watch, we all love this beautiful thing called pro wrestling, the end of the day. And, you know, some of the very things.

vitriol. And I guess that's another thing, you know, in terms of things that have changed from the time I started to where I'm at now, you know, social media has been both good and bad. And, you know, some of the bad is just the toxicity, you know, some of the fans that, you know, are empowered because they're hiding behind the keyboard to just say horrible, horrible things about people. And, you know, there, I remember years ago being at impact when I worked there. And I would see people that would say things like, man, they should just go.

out of business already. I don't like orange soda. I don't drink sunkiss. I don't want sunkiss to go out of business. I don't like orange soda, but I don't think that they should go out of business. Nobody should be able to drink orange soda. Just don't drink it.

And, you know, you can have an opinion. But I think people almost, you know, get off on or enjoy just seeing how nasty and toxic they can be talking about the wrestling that they don't like. I love wrestling. You know, just love it. don't like that kind and don't watch that kind. But for me, as a professional who's been fortunate to have made a living in this space for over 20 years now, I've only worked in professional wrestling for, you know, since I got

called up to WWE, well, actually since I got signed, which was in, I got signed in 05, I got called up in 06. from that time, I haven't had to sustain myself doing anything outside of the wrestling space. And I realize how fortunate I am, you know, over 20 years in this space. And I think about the, some of the people who haven't had that opportunity. And, you know, like, why? I have friends and colleagues that work for all of them. wrestling companies. Why would you want somebody to lose their livelihood? Like, I want all the

wrestling companies to be successful. The more successful they are, the better it is for us, the wrestlers, and you the fans. So I just don't understand that mentality, that kind of almost pure hatred, the tribalism, you know, between bands. But one thing I do get, I do get the kids that want to be extra cool that I don't watch that mainstream stuff, dude. I watch, you know, the cool niche companies and, you know, which I think that's dope. Because I was one of those guys before people knew what New Japan was, I was a tape trader. And, you know, wrestling was only WWE and WCW. And you might, you know, you might, oh, they had some Japanese guys on there.

Well, those guys have a whole career and a whole other country that you're not aware of. So I've always just been, you know, hungry for wrestling, whether Japanese wrestling, Lucha Libre, you know, European wrestling. Like, it's all wrestling and just sit back and enjoy it. You've been able to have the longevity that you've had in wrestling. wrestling because of the pivot you made into managing. So you're not taking nearly as many bumps now. Was that a conscious decision that you made?

Not at all. As a matter of fact. Bobby was just making this comment the other day. He was talking about it. There's a whole sector of our fandom now that has no idea MVP was a risk. That's a while. You got these young kids that never saw

me wrestled. You know, so they just think, you know, I'm the guy with the cane and the suit, you know, that runs his body. Yeah, you're not wearing a suit today. I am. I'm wearing a track suit today. A different kind of suit. Yeah.

Yeah, I was on the road and I just, man, I just couldn't do it, man. I couldn't do it. But, uh. Yeah, the audience, like, they've, they've not seen your in ring work. You, you have a segment of the audience that hasn't seen me in the ring as a wrestler. and when, you know, during the pandemic, when I made my return to WWE, it was actually cool how that all came together.

And I'd love to share this now. This was at the 2020 Royal Rumble. Just prior to that. Now, I have a son, my son Camden, he's 10, he'll be 11 next month. And he discovered wrestling. And he didn't know daddy was a wrestler, but he discovered wrestling and he liked it.

And, you know, for me, as a dad, it was just crazy that my son would teathe on my action figure. You know, he just thought he has no idea, you know. But for me, it was pretty cool. And I remember one day we were in the store and we were in the toy aisle. And he's pointing out, Daddy, that's Samoa Joe. And that's, you know, he's just pointing out. He's calling him by name. I'm like, when did you start watching wrestling?

You know, and then I felt some kind of way because these were my colleagues. And I was still working independence and things like that, but, you know, I wasn't on TV. And I thought, man, I want my son to see Daddy on TV, you know? I want him to be able to walk down the toy aisle once and see, oh, look, there's Daddy. So I put in a call to Paul Heyman because I knew that the Royal Rumble was coming to Houston that year. And there had been a couple times since I left the WWE. And let me make that point. Because a lot of people thought I got fired.

I didn't get fired. I had a year left on my deal. And Laurenitis was asking me to re-sign a five-year deal. And at that time, I was burned out on the WWE machine. What year was that? That was 2010. Yeah, it was 2010 because I remember it was just before Christmas that I had asked for my release. And I talked to John Laurenitis about it.

And I said, hey, look, man. I need to leave here now under circumstances that will allow me to come back before I leave here under circumstances where I can't come back because I was just getting burned out on the system, certain people, and I lost my passion for wrestling. And, you know, I was talking with Vince one day. And I said, Vince, I didn't go to superstar school to become a professional superstar. I went to pro wrestling school to become a pro wrestler.

Well, you're a superstar around here, pal. And we laughed about it, you know. But Japanese wrestling was, that was my passion. And I always, for me, my dream was the Tokyo Dome. My goal was WrestleMania. And usually people go to Japan, get over, and then come to the WWE or WCW, whatever. I needed to recharge. I needed to rekindle that flame, that passion for wrestling.

So I asked for my release. and they were kind enough to give it to me with the promise that when you're ready to come back, we can come back. And I never came back. You know, I ended up going to impact. And, you know, that was a business decision because just the amount of dates that I had to work

versus the income. So I could make more at WWE, but I'd worked three times as much. So my son, it had no idea that, you know, that was a part of life for me. know, and I asked Paul Heyman if I could be on the Royal Rumble. And I was saying that the WWE had contacted me twice before over that time about being on the Rumble.

And I remember one time I just wasn't interested. And the other time, I think I asked for too much money. But this time, it wasn't about money. I didn't care about money. I just wanted my son to see Daddy. And Paul Heyman said, done. I said, just like that. done just like that done you're in oh wow okay thanks you know and I got to be the

surprise entrant and one of the surprise entrants at the 2020 Royal Rumble and my son was in the crowd you know and it's so cool because he even made it into like one of the highlight commercials where you know you just see him going and that gave me something emotionally because I never wanted to be a dad. I wanted to be single forever. My son was an oops. And now I'm so grateful for him in my life because he makes me a better human being.

And to be able to share that with him, and Ray Mysterio was his favorite wrestler. So after that, we went into the back and Ray being the just incredible human being that he is, took some time to pull my son to the side and gave him a mask and they spoke for a minute. And after that, Paul Heyman asked me if I could make it to San Antonio the next day.

And I was like, yeah, sure. Easy pay, yeah, quick drive. And I went and again, Pauli booked me to be in a match where Ray Mysterio and Raw. Just a cool match, you know. I wasn't even under contract. But my son's mother sent me a video of my son standing underneath the television during my entrance.

You know, so my son got to watch Daddy wrestle his favorite wrestler. And again, that's all I wanted. That was it. And then after my match, Lauren I just pulled me to the side and said, hey, we want to offer you a position as a producer. And at that point, I was contemplating retirement anyway. You know, I just felt like, I'm getting pretty close to the end here. And we talked about it and what the ends and outs would be. And I said, all right, yeah, let's give it a shot to see what happens.

And I enjoyed it. It was pretty cool, you know, the creative process. and then, you know, learning about, you know, how that machine works. And then they asked me if I could do a getover spot with Drew McIntyre and, you know, cut a promo a little back and forth and I ate a Claymore. And I guess the reaction was so well that a week or two later, they asked me to do it again. That's extra pay. I get paid as my salary as a producer, and if I'm on TV,

extra pay his talent. Do this as often as you'd like. And I think we did that with Drew like maybe two or three weeks. And then sometime after that, Edge came back. And yeah, put him in there with MVP. So we did something with Edge, gave me a concerto

for which he had to apologize to my son. My son was not happy with that. I also had to deal with my son. I told him to clean up his room and he didn't. And I came back and I'm like, hey man, didn't I tell you to clean up your room? Yeah. I said, you want to make Daddy angry?

She said, no, no, I don't want to make Daddy angry. She said, but Daddy, can I ask you a question? I said, yeah. How come you'll get angry at Drew McIntyre? But then the pandemic hit. And they were lining people off. You know, the old first one fired, last one hired. So I got a text on Wednesday that I was no longer needed.

I was being released from my contract as a producer. and I wasn't bummed about it because I figured that was going to happen. And then I got a text on Friday that I was needed at TV on Monday and I responded. I said, I think you guys made a mistake. I don't work here anymore.

No, no, we need you as talent. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay. So coming back to Paul Heyman, this is during the PC era, Paul Heyman had me doing commentary for a main event. I was still doing some late producer work I was doing in-ring stuff with the VIP lounge and then backstage stuff

and all that stuff I was doing for the first couple of months I wasn't under contract. I was just being paid week to week. And Adam made a joke because WWE had done a where are they now for their YouTube channel. And I was on it. And it was really cool.

The responses that I got, they were very humbly. But he said, yeah, yeah, remember when we just did a, where is MVP now? I'll tell you where he's at. He's on Seg 1, Seg 2, Seg 5, 6, Seg 9, you know. And one of those episodes during the PC era, I was in nine segments.

And I came back and Mark Carano was head of talent relations at the time. I said, Mark, what the? He goes, no, no, I talked to Vince, where we're going to get you a contract and get you signed back in. So what was supposed to have been a one-off turned into a card subject to change, brand new chapter on my career and we put the hurt business together

with me, Shelton, and Bobby and that organically turned into something that was just amazing. But I was still wrestling at that time. I was still part of the group and I had already accepted the fact at that point that for the dynamic like if we have to take

an L for the group, I'll take the pinfall keep Bobby and Shelton's real strong and then I hurt my knee and I had torn meniscus in my knee and at that point I couldn't well to be honest they still had me wrestling sometimes I'd have to go back and get my knee taped up and it was all swollen and but ultimately there was never a moment where they said okay we're transitioning you to manager of the group I was always a spokesperson for the group but now I didn't have to lace up the boots and the cane

was initially I had a crutch you know and I can't wear a suit and a crutch it just doesn't look right. So initially the cane was legit, but then everybody was saying, MVP, don't lose the cane. You know, when your knees is better, don't get rid of the cane. Now, that looks great. And it was just a gradual transition that was never an official transition.

And I joke all the time. I say, I absolutely love it because it's extended my career and I'm making more money now per bump than I've ever made in my life. This episode is brought to you by fast-growing trees. Fall is planting season. And did you know that many plants and trees

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It's good to be right. What does your closet look like these days? Is it just full of suits? Oh, dude. And were you always a suit guy? Or did the hurt business and hurt syndicate make you a suit guy? No. So when I used to work out on South Beach doing nightclub security, I had to wear a suit.

You know, cheap $100 off the rack suit, you know. So they weren't nice suits. and they weren't tailored. There's just boxy suits, you know. But I like the look, you know. I'm like, man, this actually looks pretty good, you know. But when I pitched the MVP character to WWE, he was based on the professional athletes that I would see every week.

And, you know, I refer to them now as jackass suits because you see these, you know, first round draft pick with this giant suit that's, you know, too big and, you know, super colorful. And I was like, yeah, it would look. like a real jackass man. What a heel. Like, you know, only a heel could get away with wearing something like that.

And when I came up with the MVP character, I pitched that I would wear those kinds of suits, those, you know, ridiculous Steve Harvey-esque suits. Yeah. And that was the look for that, you know, that Uber athlete, modern day sports center screw up kind of guy. And I actually enjoyed, you know, because I wish I remember the guy's name.

But when I first started buying my suits, I was in developmental in McDonough, Georgia. And they had a K&G men's clothing, discount clothing. And that's where I really learned that because of my size, I can't buy an off-the-rack suit. And if I do, I have to have it completely recut. So a $150 suit, now I have to spend another $150 to have it recut. So now I'm $300. And I'm only making $500 a week at this time, you know? But then I learned, well, this shirt, but this.

this tie and this pocket square, and I can make a $300 suit, look like a $1,000 suit. And that was part of MVP, the Uber athlete suit wearing, you know, chain wearing, you know, Ocho Cinco type athlete. And it's something that I just settled into comfortably. When you debuted, I thought so much, I thought your character reminded me so much of Rod Tidwell. Rod Tidwell, yeah. Show me money. Cuba Gooding Jr.'s character from Jerry McGuire.

And Rod Tidwell was, so when I came up with the character, the idea for MVP, like I said, I used to work on South Beach. And we have all kinds of celebrities and pro athletes come out there. And I had the privilege of meeting people like Dr. Jay. And I stood outside of the living room one night for about 10 minutes, just chatting with Barry Sanders, the most unassuming guy in the world. You would never think that this is the greatest running back of all time, my opinion. just kind of standing out there chilling

and I'm like, man, you know, look at these legends, you know, and how cool they are. And then you'd have like some third round draft pig from the Dolphins show up with his entourage. Do you know who I am? Like, dude, nobody knows who you are. You know, get out of here. And I had had a few tryouts with WWE.

And one day, you know, it's funny because in the Florida indie scene, this kind of became a bit of a mythology of a moment where I went to Laurenitis. And I said, Johnny, can I have five minutes? Busy kid. Can I have two minutes?

I said, Johnny, give me 30 seconds, 30 seconds. And he goes, all right, what? You got 30 seconds. Tell me what the fuck I got to do to get hired, man. And the look I got, I was like, oh, did I just get myself in trouble? But he said to me later, there was a passion in that that he recognized. And he said, kid, we like you. We don't have anything for you.

Come up with something that we don't already have that you can do. Get back to me. My answer to that was MVP. and when I pitched MVP back then you just sent a VHS tape and an 8 by 10 I put together a treatment with chapters this is what MVP looks like

and then Lauren Ida said to me he said come up with 10 different storyline ideas just give me something so I decided that I was going to put together something where the writers wouldn't have to do anything like here here's a guy here's 10 storyline ideas here are a bunch of

backstage vignettes here are photos of how I, you know, how I dress, what I look like. Everything's out there. And then I send a DVD that had two promos on it. One was 60 seconds and the other one was like four and a half minutes to show like, boom, I can keep time or I can keep you entertained. And, uh, court Bauer told me that, you know, they were passing this thing around the writer's room. They had never seen anything like it because no one had ever done that before sent in something, you know, so extensive and detailed and actual treatment. And I guess one day a week, the writers would.

get together with Vince and they would watch DVDs of promos. And apparently, according to Corbauer, they popped in my DVD. Vince watched it and said, man, we got to get this guy on TV. And they said, well, he's not signed yet. And legend has it. The Vince said, why the hell not? And two weeks later, one of the most vicious ribs ever, Ricky Santana was a good friend of John Laurenitis.

and he was one that put in a word to Laurianitis with me. Because I was terrified. I didn't just want to send my gimmick, and then they steal it and give it to Shelton Benjamin. Sure. And Ricky Santana spoke to Laurenitis, gave me his word. It wouldn't steal my shit.

And when a few weeks later, I left my cell phone in my car and I was with my girlfriend. I spent the night. And I came down, I go, man, let me check my calls. My entire miss call log was Ricky Santan. I was like, oh man.

So I called him right away. I'm like, Ricky, what's up? He goes, man, where you been, man? I've been trying to get a hold of you all day. I said, dude, I forgot. I left my phone on my car. He's like, well, I don't know what to tell you now, man. He said, you want the bad news or you want the worst news?

I'm like, dude, that's a little way to open up. You know, well, I said, all right, give me the bad news. Well, I was talking to New Japan and, you know, they wanted a young, muscular black guy to come in and work on top with Chono. I'm like, okay. Well, no, they already found some guy on West Coast out in L.A. They're going to go with him, man. Can you call him back?

He's, dude, you missed the window, man. It's gone. I was, I was crestful. I mean, just, like, Chono was my guy, you know? Like, and I remember just literally having that overwhelming feeling of heartbreak. And I said, all right, Rick, what's the worst news? I said, well, I talked to John Laurenitis. Now my heart's thumped.

I'm like, oh, no, man, come on, man. He goes, yeah, they don't want you at OVW, man. And at this point, my eyes welled up because I was, at that point, I think I was 31. And I was, okay, that's it. There's no place for me to go and make a living in this space. So I can still do it because I love it. But now I have to think, what am I going to do career-wise? This is all going through my head in this moment.

And then Rick, he goes, well, don't you at least want to know why they don't want you at OVW? Sure, Rick. How come they don't want me at OVW? Because they want you a deep south. Called John Lorraine. He's going to give you a job. I'm like, oh, fuck. To go from the absolute depths of despair to the heights of elation.

And that's how that whole thing came about. And then, you know, I pitched MVP and they saw MVP and I presented MVP. And MVP's done real well for me. Was it your idea to have the entrance tunnel? How'd that come together? That was just me and Dusty Roads. So we used to have these afternoon workouts As they were grooming me getting ready for my debut

And it was me, Dusty Rose and Chris Benwell And he was coming back from his neck surgery So I was the guy that he picked to have private workouts with Because we had had a relationship before that And we were talking college football And I'm a McCain fan, 305, you know, you of them All the way back to Howish Snellenberger days, you know And I was talking about the Hurricanes

coming out of the tunnel with the smoke. And I just said off the cuff, I said, oh, man, that would be cool if I could do something like that. Not really understanding how the machine works yet. Like, we can do whatever you want, you know, if it works. And I'll never forget, Dream said, he looks at me, goes, oh, yeah, baby, that'd be something special. We had a, like the hurricanes.

We have an MVP come out in the tunnel with the smoke and everything. And I was like, yeah, that would be dope. Yeah, yeah. What an impression. That was Dream. America Dream, Dusty Roads. did that. I just came up with it, you know, not thinking that it would really be a thing. Like, well, that would be kind of neat, you know. And he said, yeah, yeah, that as a matter of fact.

That's exactly what we're going to do. You're one of the longest reigning United States champions of all time, but you're hard pressed to find the match where you won that championship. Doesn't exist. Yeah, how does that make you feel? Well, it's weird because Chris Benoit and I had a really close relationship. A lot of people don't realize. He was my favorite wrestler. And I was an extra one day, and I used Norman Smiley,

who's one of my friends and mentors as an end. And I said, hey, Norman said, say hi. And I said, do you mind if I pick your brain for a little bit? And he said, yeah, yeah, sure, after I eat, let's go, up into bleachers and talk. And he said, well, before we start, let me ask you, who are some of your favorite wrestlers? And at the time, like, I was just Japanese wrestling was my thing.

So when I told him that, you know, he just, fuck yeah. He said, all right, you know, because sometimes I ask people, and they're like, you know, I ask him, who's your favorite wrestler? And they're like, you know, ultimate warrior. I'm like, get the fuck out of here. But he gave me his address and told me to send him a DVD with some matches. And I was like, well, this is like you're an actor asking De Niro to check out your clips. And he didn't just watch it.

he took notes. So a couple weeks later, when we spoke, he went over, you know, and was telling me this, that. And at the time, I was really like, over on the South Florida indie scene, but I wasn't really, like, getting booked to go different places,

and it just seemed like nothing was happening for me. And I was married at the time, and I told my wife, I said, man, am I the guy that sucks but doesn't know it? Am I that guy? You know, because everybody, there's that guy who sucks, and he doesn't know he sucks.

he thinks he's good, you know? And my ex-wife, she said, if Chris Binwa says you suck, you're going to let this go? I said, if he says I suck, I'm done. And when we had the conversation after he watched my matches, I said, so I don't suck?

Fuck, no, you don't suck, man. You're just green, man. You're going to be great. And that opened up that door. So he and I, he would call me up just out of the blue, like, he said, you have any matches this weekend? I'm like, yeah, man, I worked this indie and how to go.

So when I pitched, I told him about the MVP character before it came about. And he offered to send me $1,000 so I could buy some suits and stuff. And I said, no, Chris, like, as much as I can't even begin to understand how much I appreciate that. But I got to do this on my own. And I think I earned a measure of respect from him that day. And after that, we bonded. and when I got signed, he was almost happier for me than I was for myself.

And when he came back from his neck injury, I was the one that was having private workouts with him. He campaigned to work with me, to drop the U.S. title to me. So he was such a huge impact on my career. You know, he was my friend and my mentor. And then for the absolute tragedy that happened, Like, I've been to that house.

I played with Daniel. I used to lace his boots up and we, you know, rustling the ring together. So I was absolutely heartbroken. I was crushed. And I just, I couldn't understand because, like, how could you do that, man? And when we found out about CTE and we found out that, you know,

his brain was that of a 70-year-old man, and we started learning about CTE with the, I think Dr. Bennett O'Malo was the one that brought that to light. It helped me because now I was able to understand. And in no way am I making it okay or trying to, but now I could understand what happened. Because there are times we'd be having matches, and Chris would look at me,

and I just see this blank staring, and he'd go, what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? And a few times I thought he was just messing with me, but he couldn't remember anything. And all his matches were called. You know, we might talk about this or talk about a couple of things in there,

but it was just go out there and let's work. So when I started learning about NFL players that Justin Strelzick, Pittsburgh Steelers, he drove his car on the opposite side of the highway and killed himself. And he was talking about the voices in his head telling him to kill his family, You know, some of these different NFL players that were having like these, you know, explosive anger issues and voices talking to them. It gave me as heartbroken as I was and as angry as I was at Chris.

Then it gave me an understanding. My friend that I knew that took care of me that was so good to me, the friend that I knew didn't do that. The CTE that destroyed his brain, caused him to do that. Where does that match with him where you won the United States Championship? Where does that rank in your favorite matches?

It's my favorite match because Chris Benoit was my favorite wrestler. So I had a chance to wrestle my favorite wrestler at WrestleMania for the United States Championship. And I'm a guy that remembers when Magnum T.A. got hit by the chain in the cage and lost the United States championship

to Nikita Koloff. No, the Russians got the United States championship. So, and that match was because prior to that, people had only seen me with Kane. And, you know, they had me in a comedic, like, running away, I'm scared. And Chris knew that that wasn't me. And Chris said, we're going to show them what you can do.

And I'll never forget, after that match at WrestleMania, you know, we got in the back, and Stephanie McMahon walks up, and she goes, wow, what a matter. Who knew you could do that? And Chris, in his deadpan way that he just stepped up, she goes, I did. So that match means the world to me. And it is my single favorite match of my career because that match showed everybody that I could go with. one of the absolute best in the game.

You had another big moment at WrestleMania with Matt Hardy. Twist to fade off the ladder. Yeah. How did that come together? Well, you know, Matt and I were having an amazing program. And, you know, if we carried Smackdown for a while when we were doing the odd couple partnership, and we were having so much fun because, again,

something I'll never forget being in Baltimore, Maryland, when I just got called up that before we were going into Matt came to me that afternoon and goes hey man how you doing? We talked to just a little chitchaddy goes, yeah, we're going to do a little business tonight.

You and me, we're going to do some business. And I was saying, yeah, all right, cool. You know, I'm like, oh, wow, I'm with Matt Hardy. And it's just dope. Not knowing that that would be the beginning of a feud that turned into a rivalry that turned into a very close friendship.

Like Matt and I are very tight to this day. And, you know, that during that time, that rivalry that we were having on Smackdown, Matt had like a really bad, I don't know if it was like a ruptured hernia or some really bad internal injury that took him out for a while. So, you know, that that rivalry that we were having at the time wasn't supposed to have ended the way it did, but Matt got hurt. So with not being hurt and us, you know, me turning on him, you know, during our tag team, when we lost the titles and I'm, you know, beating with the U.S. title, taking him out for him to come through the crowd as I was just about to grab the briefcase. I was there.

I could hear the rumble as the people saw Matt Hardy come running down. And when everybody saw and he came up that that sound, that moment, you know, every professional wrestler wants to have that moment under those lights on that stage where everybody gives you that explosive pop for that moment, you know. And in pro wrestling, people forget a lot of the time, people don't remember who won and lost the match. They remember moments. And that was definitely a moment.

That was high. Yeah, that one was high. Yeah, literally high. How were you able to keep the name MVP no matter where you work? Again, this is a cool thing. because, you know, I tell people I don't have any animosity for WWE. There are some people that work there that I dislike immensely. But overall, the company, I don't have a problem.

And for whatever one might say about Venison McMahon and John Laurinitis, they let me, when I came up with MVP and I pitched it, they could have said, well, we're taking your name. They didn't. They put it in my contract that MVP was my intellectual property. I hadn't done a legal trademark yet, but I did the mail yourself envelope kind of thing, the poor man's trademark. I did all that.

And they elected to let me have it. They didn't insist that I turn it over. They never tried to muscle me into, it's yours. You came up with it. You can keep it. And I think, I want to say, like, me and CM Punk were probably like the, last guys from that era that were able to keep our names. So, you know, Vince and Laurenitis didn't do that to me for whatever reason. I have no idea. But I've been fortunate because I didn't

have to be formally known as, or I didn't have to turn it to VIP. You know, I took the MVP to New Japan. I've taken it to Mexico. I've taken it to Impact everywhere I've been. And I've been able to establish that brand. With everything you've done in your career and as over as you've been, Do you feel like there was a missed opportunity at some point to be a world champion somewhere? Absolutely. Is there a specific time? Well, I was told, I don't know this for an absolute fact because I wasn't in on the meeting, but I was told by some people that were, that to matter of fact, one of the writers,

that there was talk about MVP being World Heavyweight Champion, but there was reservations because of my felony conviction. So for those of your viewers who don't know, when I was a teenager, I was coming up in Miami, rough, gang, violence, that was an armed robber. And I did a robbery and I ended up going to prison for several years. Nine and a half to be specific. Nine and a half years I served from 16 to 26. Sentenced to 18 and a half years.

18 and a half with a mandatory three for the sought off shotgun, meaning for three years you can't get time off for good behavior. And consequently, it was as a result of that, when I was at work release, getting out of prison, I met a correctional officer, primetime Darrell D. And he was an indie worker. And that's how I got into the business, because he would bring in videotapes for us to watch in the morning before they would open up the center to let us go to work. So guys would have, you know, couldn't leave till seven.

So it would be like 10, 15 minutes, people just kind of milling around. And he'd bring in tapes. And I would be, hey man, how do you guys do that without really killing each other? And he said, well, I see you out there playing basketball working out. You got a good physique. You're athletic. When you get out, if you want to give it a try, let's, you know, come out. I'll show you something.

So that's how I broke into wrestling. But going back to my conviction, it was at, you know, work release that I met the correctional officer who introduced me to my career. But now I'm a convicted felon. So they didn't want to make you the World Heavyweight Champion? Because they were potentially content. that I couldn't get into. So how can you be the World Heavyweight Champion,

but you can't go to this country? Wow. Like going to Japan, Japan is very strict about people who, like James Brown, they wouldn't let into Japan. But because I went over for a Japanese company, they were able to smooth it over with the visa process. Canada, I couldn't get into Canada for a long time. I had to go through a process there

where people had to write letters of recommendation. And, you know, I had to, a whole bunch of, It costs thousands of dollars and legal fees to get something in Canada. They call a letter of rehabilitation. They said, okay, you're rehabilitated. You can come to Canada. You always have to bring this letter with you because if they ask, have you been convicted of a felony?

And I say yes, but here's my letter of rehabilitation. Then I can get in. Australia, the last time I went to Australia was with Tommy Dreamers House of Hardcore. It literally took an act of Congress. And at the 12th hour, some parliament. official. Nobody wanted to sign off on my document to let me in. And somebody knew somebody who, some member of parliament or whatever, signed off on it. And I was able to get in Australia. And now England, the United Kingdom, just started the electronic transfer authorization.

And they asked the question, have you been convicted of a felony that required you to have a 12-month stay or longer in a correction? Well, yeah, I did nine and a half years. So I answered truthfully. And that's why I wasn't allowed in for forbidden door. So the coming full circle, as it was told to me, there was a conversation about me being a world champion, but there were reservations because of my convicted felon status. You gave a TED talk about this. That is so powerful. And it comes back around to the idea of when is a felon, not a felon anymore?

When do I stop paying? You've paid your debt to society, but have you really? Well, you know, that's, we have this contract with our society that says if you commit a crime, you get caught, you get convicted, you go to prison, and you pay your debt to society. And when you get out, your debt is supposed to be paid. But there's that box. Have you been convicted of a felony? And they can discriminate against you. Yeah, legal discrimination.

And in some cases, I understand that. If you're a pedophile, then no, you should never be able to work, you know, at an elementary school. Of course not. Yeah. And I understand people having reservations. Hey, you were once an armed robber. Do I want you working in my jewelry store? You know, I get it.

But if, you know, when I got out of prison, I remember trying to get an apartment and there was a background check. So you do your time. You get out of prison and you can't get a, you can't run an apartment. You can't get a job. But I thought I paid my debt to society. Now, there's no place for me to live, no place for me to work. What am I supposed to do?

And there's a part of me that believes very strongly that that's on purpose to maintain the recidivism because, you know, the correctional mark, the for-profit prison system and the correctional systems in most states generate a lot of money. So you're still paying for the sins of when you were 16. A bad decision. And I always make this distinction. People go, oh, you were a kid, you made a mistake. No, I didn't make a mistake. I made a conscious choice to commit it.

I planned out an armed robbery. But I made a bad choice. And at 16, most of us weren't making the best choices at 16. But I went to prison. I paid my debt to society. And then when I came home, I had to prove again, hey, look, I'm trustworthy. You know, look, I'm not going to rob your store

if you give me a job here. But all these years later, I still can't vote. You know, I can't vote. in the state of Florida, they passed an amendment so that you can vote in the state of Florida. But I live in Texas, so

that doesn't exist in Texas yet. So I can't on a firearm. I can't vote. But I still pay substantial taxes, you know. So it's weird how that works. But yeah, when do we stop paying? The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. soccer podcast.

My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Klinberg. Now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claimant, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it.

Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Do you still remember your inmate number? You'll never forget it. Yeah. What is it?

190-197. Florida State of Corrections or Department of Corrections? Yeah. Number 190-197. Never forget it. Like if you've been to the military, you never forget your military ID number or whatever, you know. But it opened my eyes so much. That was such a powerful TED talk. And I'm so glad I stumbled across it years ago.

Thank you. I'm doing another TED talk. What's the topic of that one? This one, this is going to actually surprise people. The working title is Real Men Get Help. and I at about 4, I was 40, 41, I was on a flight and I had a panic attack. I didn't know what was happening. And I just started sweating and I started, I felt like a tightness in my chest and a weird tingling.

And I thought, am I having a heart attack? Like, what's going on? And I found out after the fact that it was, you know, an anxiety-adduced panic attack. I had no idea what that was. And I didn't do anything about it. I thought, well, man, I was strange, you know. And then periodically it would happen. And over time, they started to get a little bit more frequent.

But I would always just zen my way through it. Just woo-sah, just breathe. He'll be fine, walk it off, you know. And I had no idea, you know, I went to a doctor and the doctor said, you're fine, you know. And I actually went and rewatched the entire sopranos because Tony Soprano was, and I could identify. Like, fortunately, I wasn't passing out,

but I was having moments where I was like, I would hide. I'd go hide for a little bit because, man, you know, and they subside in a few minutes. But for that window of time, they're debilitating.

And I would mock people. Oh, yeah, you're having an anxiety attack. Get out of here. Man, really, really?

You know, I had absolutely no sympathy or, or empathy until it started to happen to me. And I was told, I went to see a therapist. I was talking to him. As a matter of fact, let me give credit to Chris Manzioni, our sports psychologist at AEW.

We were talking about it, and he said, I gave him an overview of my life, you know, childhood trauma, physical abuse, you know, coming up in the streets, you know, violence in the streets, my time in prison where you're fight or flight 24 hours a day, you know. And it never occurred to me that I could have PTSD.

You know, that's combat veterans get that, you know. But I've been shot at. You know, I've been stabbed. have been through like some violent, traumatic things. Never occurred to me that, you know, that would be something that would happen to me. And he said, we all have a reservoir for our trauma.

And that reservoir builds up. And if you don't address it, it's going to find a way out. And he said, these panic attacks that I'm having periodically is the way of the unaddressed trauma finding its way out. And he said, you, my friend,

have a Hoover Dam size reservoir of trauma. So this TED talk is about me. I'm a professional wrestler. I'm a jiu-jitsu black belt. I'm an ex-con. These are all of our society's ideas of a tough guy, a hard guy. But we also have this rule in society that men have to be tough. We don't get help.

We don't complain. You know, we're manly men. And I finally went to talk to somebody to address these issues, to address this unaddressed trauma that I've had, you know, from my childhood. And just talking to somebody actually helps. And I know there are some people that say, you know, therapy's bullshit, you know, and okay, maybe it doesn't work. Those people have clearly not.

But I have found that it's allowed me to address some things. And I discovered that, like, 36,000 men a year in the United States, take their own lives. and I think the male to female suicide rate is like four to one maybe six to one, something like that. And, you know, a friend of mine was a Marine, and he took his own life. And I just wonder how many of these men, tough men,

you know, combat veterans who've been downrange, you know, guys who just, if they would have spoken to somebody, if they would have talked to somebody to address, you know, whatever it is they're going through, Would they still be with us? You know, would we be able to help them? So my TED talk is basically going to be like, hey, it's okay. You know, if you're a real man, go to the fight.

Don't run from the fight. That fight is inside of you and you have to address it to be better. I love that. I'm hoping that I'll be able to inspire some people to go and maybe seek some help. That's going to help a lot of people. I hope. When's that coming out? Well, I do it next weekend.

September 6th. at Lone Star College and in Texas. So I'm sure it'll be on YouTube and I think it'll be streamed. I'm not sure, but it'll definitely be on YouTube. So I'm going to do it next week. It'll be out probably in the next couple of weeks. With the work you're doing now in your career on the mic as a manager, who do you consider to be the greatest manager of all time?

For me, number one, the weasel, Bobby the Brain Heenan, the absolute best. period. Number two, Paul Heyman. Paul Hammond is that guy. He's just exceptional at what he does. And he taught me so much, you know, and in the immortal words of CM Punk,

I'm a Paul Heyman guy, you know. And as a matter of fact, he was, he, Paul Heyman is responsible for this whole new chapter of my career. Because if Paul Heyman wouldn't have opened the door for me to return to WWE, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. So I have a huge debt of gratitude to Paul Heyman. And I remember one day we were shooting a backstage segment. And when we finished, you know, the crew started applauding.

They were clapping because it was really good. And somebody made the comment to Paul. What do you think about that? Paul, you know, Paul said, yeah, I brought him here to not to compete with me. I brought him here to replace me, you know. And I thought there was praise from Caesar, you know. So, you know, Bobby the Brain Heena, number one. Paul Heyman number two.

What's the biggest thing you've learned from Paul Heyman? The biggest thing I've learned from Paul Heyman. You said you've learned so much from him. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's so many just amazing things that I've learned from him. You know what? I heard this a long time ago, and Paul Heyman emphasized this for me. A long time ago, I heard somebody say,

when I was in prison, you have two eyes and two ears, one mouth. Watch and listen twice as much as you talk. and you know professional wrestling is a very game of thrones atmosphere you know everybody's working an angle for themselves and everybody's you know you got factions like behind the scenes you know you really have people

that are you know cutting each other's throats and you know people that are trying to undermine each other and um Paul Heyman really early on when I first got called up you know you pulled me to the sign and he explained to me how this guy is the top guy This guy is a guy that we build up to feed to him You know, he's explaining to me how everything works

And he goes, you've been out on the yard You know how it works You just sit back and watch the yard Watch who's moving Watch, watch who's doing what with who And that'll take you a long way And I was like, okay, yeah The only problem for me I used to tell him

Like, yeah, the difference is you can't apply Prison Yard politics to pro wrestling because prison yard politics are backed up by violence You can't go and then shake somebody in the locker room. But, yeah, just to be astute, pay attention. You know, watch how everything's moving.

And, you know, be cool with everyone, but align yourself with no one. Your voice now is so fitting for what you do in the Hurt Syndicate. When did your voice start to change? Because the voice you have now is not the voice you have when you debuted in WWA. You, uh, for me with Hank Williams. Yeah?

Hank Williams, Jr. Yeah. Hey, Williams, the third. He's got a song called Whiskey, Weed and Women. But the whiskey weed and women got the upper hand. I'm pretty sure it's the whiskey and the weed that did that. When did it start to change? I'm not, I don't remember exactly.

But what's crazy is I remember my father had a voice like this. When he used to smoke Newport, no, he was smoke. cools. My father used to smoke cools and then he used to drink. And my mom, I remember my mom telling me that he had a beautiful voice and he used to sing to her when they were in high school and they were younger. And she was, yeah, but I guess all the cigarettes and drinking just turned his voice into gravel. Somebody even said that I put a comment on some YouTube thing that that I sound like I eat glass and gargle with kerosene. I'm like, yeah, okay. And it's weird because

you know, sometimes it's smoothed out a little bit and it's not, you know, but, you know, if I'd smoke a joint and have a couple of sips of bourbon, you know, it just gets all gravity. Is this also from just years of yelling into the mic? I don't think so because, you know, I never really like yelled. I wasn't like a yell. I was never, let me tell you something, brother. Yeah, yeah.

I always tried to make my promos conversational. And I think that's why my promos works so well. And when I'm working with young talent, you know, especially at AEW, just recently, Kevin Knight. was shooting a backstage vignette, and I walked by, and the content was good, and the delivery was okay. But I interrupted, and you mind if I help? No, please. And I said, look, after the show, you know, when we're, you know, sipping and we're talking, you have a charisma there that's missing from right here because you're memorizing lines and you're reciting them. Make it conversational,

make it real, make it you. How would you say this, if you're, if you're, you're, you're You were talking to me and you were bragging to me about, you know, don't, don't take the, take the, take the, the, the canned pro wrestling out of it and make it natural and conversational. And he did that and he did a few takes and afterwards, it was so much better. And, you know, he thanked me and I'd say, hey, dude, that's, that's what I'm here for. I saw Kyle Fletcher. He was doing a promo and I stood and I was passing by and actually he was cool enough. He was like, hey, P, would you watch this? Yeah, sure.

And, you know, he, he nailed it. You know, I still, the only thing I would say is, you know, a pause here, intonation here, but I said, you nailed it, you know. And I've always stressed that, you know, make your promos organic and conversational. Don't try not to recite canned lines. And as long as you do that, there's an element of authenticity that the viewers, even if they can't articulate it, they'll absorb it and they'll just know, like, that's different from everything else. Do you work better than off of points or like an actual scripted out promo? They give me, well, at AEW, nobody, I'm very fortunate that they're, they just tell me generally what they need. Yeah, where you got to get to.

Yeah. And Jen Pepperman, she's awesome to work with. Like, she'll write something up and she'll say, hey, look, I just wrote this up to give you something. You know, I'm like, okay, I'll look it over. And I like, all right, cool, thank you. And, you know, there might be some lines that she'll put in there that, oh, that's a great line. I'll use that. And at WWE, early on, I established that I had the gift of gab.

So I didn't, you know, Vince was real cool with me and that I didn't have to say it word for word. If there was something specific, Vince would say, say this, this way. Otherwise, it was mine. So I always made it a point to, I'll read the script. But then depending on what writers I was working with, they would give me bullet points. and then I just go in as well I can't think of his name right now he go MVP this up

yeah and and and because and this is like one of the things that I talk about on my podcast marking out with MVP and Dwayne Swayze I try to give these gems to young wrestlers when you're coming up like don't memorize a promo because if you forget a line you're screwed like you

that's where do I go from there and now you're stuck but if you got your bullet points and you know where you're trying to go, then it's totally up to you to tell that story and make sure you get those points of the story in and then take it home. A match is a promo, a promo is a match. You have a start, you have a middle. And if you do it right, you got to finish. Yeah, I think that people forget it's storytelling. That's what it's supposed to be. Right. And you can tell. You can tell when you see, like, you know, somebody who's not very comfortable on the mic, you know, giving almost a robotic,

canned, you know, wrestling promo. And it doesn't feel real versus, you know, somebody who's, who has learned and understood how to tell a story and make it emotional to solicit an emotional response. And it, like, scripted stuff doesn't happen in our everyday life. Like, if you were to go out and see your grandma and ask your grandma about her recent trip to Tucson, you wouldn't be like, So grandma, you recently went to Tucson from Thursday until Saturday.

You know, you would just be like, oh yeah, I got to ask grandma about the trip. And that's something else that I try to tell some of the, like, if you're doing a promo, especially if you're going back and forth with somebody, if you're interacting with someone. Yeah. And you trip on a word, that's not a botch. Because when you talk to people, that happens sometimes. As long as you don't go, you know, you can just, yeah,

and I was going to go and the power box, whatever it is, I was going to go hit the switch on that, you know, because that's how people really talk. It's not often that you can articulate your point from A to Z without, you know, any watches in your day-to-day conversation. How often do we go? Yeah. And what was that?

And there have been times where in a promo I got stuck and I forgot where I was going or I couldn't remember. and, you know, one of the gems that I give on marking out with MVP and Dwayne Swazy, I will take a promo sometimes, and if I forget, I will act like I'm frustrated and I'll just like, you know, like I'm collecting myself. So if we see you doing that, now we know. I'm telling you, I'm giving the game away. I'm giving the game away.

There's times when I've done that where I'm like, okay, where am I going? But if you're watching me, you read that is, oh, look at him, he's pissed off, he's frustrated. Look, you know, I'm collecting myself. but really I'm trying to remember where the fuck am I going here where that's something nice to pull out of your bag of tricks yeah you know we don't talk that way in real life so why would you do that on a wrestling promo? I heard Brad Pitt

eats in every movie because it's a normal thing like if you're just like eating some food and having a conversation with someone it'd be a natural thing that you'd be doing. I just say it all the time you watch movies or television shows or whatever and people have food and they don't eat. They're talking there's just all this food and no one's actually

eating the food, so I didn't know that. It makes them very relatable of like, oh, yeah, I could see myself in that situation. Yeah, that makes lots of sense. There's a beautiful moment where you and Shad are watching Kofi Kingston win the WWE championship

at WrestleMania 35. Yeah. And you can see that you're visibly moved by this, you're crying. What did that moment mean to you? There's a double whammy here, right? Because Shad's no longer with us. and, you know, Shad tragically passed away. As a hero.

His final words, he was swimming out in Venice Beach with his son. They were at the beach. And the lifeguard, they got caught in an undertow. And the lifeguard, the lifeguard said, he made it out to Shad first. And Shad told the lifeguard, go get my son. And Shad went under and didn't come back up. and he washed back up, I think, three days later, you know. And me and Shelton, we used to verbally beat Shad up so much.

Like, he was a big, goofy little brother, you know, and I used to tell Shad all the time. Dude, I can handle you in small doses, you know. But what a great guy. And I was mad at him for posting that because I felt that was very personal. You know, like, that's not, that wasn't for everybody. But when I saw the response to it and what my response meant to other people, then, you know, I told, I, I apologize to Shad. I said, I'll be an apology, man. And we laughed about it.

But race is a very touchy subject, especially in our current, you know, society. And, you know, race and wrestling has always been an issue. and, you know, when you look at various companies that have been around for decades, and, you know, they've never had, you know, an Asian champion or a Hispanic champion or a black champion, then that just comes from the mindset that existed. And even in this way, because if you look like old WWF back in the day, you know, it was, the champion was meant to be marketed. to his people, Bruno San Martino.

Like the Italians, yeah, other people liked him too, but the Italians came out for Bruno San Martino. Pedro Morales, the Puerto Ricans came out, you know, it was, that was marketing. It was done that way. But representation matters. And, you know, when you have an opportunity to see somebody on the screen that looks like you,

that means something to little kids. And lots of people say, oh, well, I don't see color. Well, you're wrong. for saying that. You should see color. We should celebrate our differences. You know, different foods, different music, our complexion is different. Don't ignore it. Let's, let's address it. Let's talk about it. Let's celebrate our differences. And growing up, I'm 51. I'll be 52 in October. When I went to the toy store,

there weren't toys that look like me. You know, if you're a little girl, my age, or older, you had Barbies, blonde hair and blue eyes. There weren't Barbies that had black curly hair or brown skin. And it matters. And what really drove that point home to me was when I took my son to see the Spider-Man Multiverse, Miles Morales. And I asked him, as we were learning about the Marvel Universe and the different characters and everything, he said to me,

And he was four, maybe five. And I asked him about, you know, who's his, what, which Spider-Man do you like? He goes, I like the black Spider-Man, Daddy. And I thought, yes, that's a cool, you know, his costume's real cool because Peter Parker's blue and red, but Miles Morales was black and red. I thought he was referring to the costume. And my son said, no, no, no, Daddy, Miles Morales, because he looks like me. Wow. So in that moment, like, wrestling has always been this beautiful space where, you know, you can celebrate

creature hero. But there are wrestling fans all around the world that never had a dark, complexed man of color with dreadlocks, hold the coveted championship. There are little kids that love wrestling and have their heroes. And I'm not taking anything away from that, but just the fact that when you have somebody like The Rock, who's a man of color, who I took to right away, I'm like, that dude, yeah, me and that dude, yeah, where, we're, we're, it was a moment in time. And I knew that there were little kids everywhere who love wrestling who could look and see this guy who looks like them.

And not just that, but Kofi, I love Kofi. Kofi is an amazing human being. He's an awesome husband. He's a great dad. He's a wonderful friend. We weren't developmental together. And we laugh about it because when he walked in the door, I was one of the first people he saw.

I was in the ring with somebody, and he had his low haircut. And I remember, like, a little while after us, we were interacting, I told him, I said, man, you're going to be all right, man. You're going to make some money in this business, you know. And early on, when we would go out on the road, you know, I was a guy that I'm going out after the show.

I want to go to the bar. I want to go to the club. Coffey wasn't that guy, you know. He wasn't anti-social. You know, he'd hang out here and there, but Coffey didn't want to be out partying or whatnot. You know, he was married and he had a family. And he didn't get any flack for that.

Like, we didn't, you know, drag him over. Well, I don't normally see we because I was still a rookie. But, you know, the older vets, they saw something in him. And they didn't give him a hard time for not drinking shots and hanging out at the bar. It just wasn't his thing. But they respected the fact that he was talented and a professional. So there were a whole bunch of emotions going on at once to see this guy that I hold so much respect for, who's an awesome human being tremendously talented.

And the role that he was filling, you know, like, Booker T was somebody for a lot of people, fans that could say, hey, but here's a whole new generation. And it was just such a beautiful, organic moment.

There was just a lot of emotions going on, and I was just proud and happy for my friend. That's a beautiful moment. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you again for making this happen. So good to be able to catch up with it. You made it happen, man.

You made it happen. I was going to be out here in Vegas for, you know, Master's, I'm a big jiu-jitsu guy. You're hurting people in real life. Hey, you know, black belt. Yeah, it was funny because somebody

recently was, I don't know, one of these online internet people, they were saying something about, you know, MVP just acts tough because he's hanging out, you know, with Bobby and then Shelton and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And somebody said, man, you don't know, MVP's a black belt and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Like, he can legitimately choke you out, you know?

And the guy was like, no, no, no, no, for real. Why don't you find out? Yeah, I dare you, you know. But that guy actually came up to me and said, I owe you an apology. I was talking so much trash. So if you happen to come across one of those videos, I'm sorry. I was just, I didn't know, you know, we were laughing about it. But, yeah, you know, I've wrestled with Shelton.

And I can't be Shelton wrestling. But my jiu-jitsu is good enough that I can keep him from kicking my ass. You could tap him out. I haven't yet. I haven't yet. I haven't yet. But he's- Like between you, Shelton and Bobby.

That's three legit badass. No, look, with Bobby, when I had a match with Josh Barnett for Bloodsport. Bloodsport. And as I was getting ready for that, I had a couple training sessions with Bobby. And Bobby made me want to get my black belt back. I was just like so big, so strong. He trained with American top team for a long time. And they got guys down there with amazing jits.

So everything that I had, he had an answer to. You know, I was just like, God damn, man. So, yeah, those guys are, you know, and I want to say this, I'm so happy, and I'm so grateful and appreciative that every day, I take a moment to appreciate the fact that my job is to go have fun with my friends. I make a very comfortable living, hanging out making money with my friends.

Bobby and Shelton are, they're my brothers. We've been tight. Like, when I was in New Japan Pro Wrestling, I needed a tag team partner. I called Shelton. I brought Shelton over to Japan. So his Japan career was from me opening that door for him when I was at impact. And I hurt my knee.

I was supposed to win the impact heavyweight championship, but I hurt my knee on an indie show in the UK. And the question was brought up. Hey, you cool Bobby Lashley? Like, yeah, that's my guy, man. They were going to bring him in for something else. And the storyline was pitched where I brought Bobby in to wrestle in my place to win the Impact Championship. And people have asked me like, man, do you feel some kind of way that you didn't get a chance to win the TNA heavyweight championship?

And no, not at all. Because what happened was way better. You know, like I stepped to the side and said, yeah, put the title on Bobby and I'll be the hype man. So what ended up being the hurt business, me, Bobby Lassely, and Kenny King had an impact. And we've been making money off of that forever. So that culmination of our business relationship has actually lasted over three different companies. We've been making money together all over the place. And I'm so appreciative.

And everybody knows. that the hurt business got shut down in WWE for reasons that have never been made clear to me. No one has ever said, and I begged Vince, Bobby begged this, but please don't do this. Vince had his ideas of what he wanted to do. And everybody generally agrees

that we got shut down way too soon. Yes. So when it came time for our contracts, I made it very clear that I don't want to be there anymore. You know, there are people there in management that I dislike immensely. A person, and I don't even bother to get into that,

but I just knew that with certain people in charge, and that's how the wrestling game, you know what, that's how life is. I don't care where you work. When management changes, some people are out, other people are in. And I knew it was time to go. I wasn't going to resign.

I was in Bobby's ear constantly. I don't resign. Shelton got released. don't resign. Let's you, me and Shelton, get back together. Let's go to AEW. Dude, I know we can go to AEW, and we can pick this thing back up.

And I'm grateful to Tony Kahn for seeing the value in us and giving us an opportunity to come over there and continue to tell our story and help some of these younger talents, you know, because contrary to what the internet tells you, there are a lot of young guys that come up and ask us for advice

and ask us to watch their matches and ask us for insight. And I love being able to pay it forward because people gave it to me. So thank you to Tony Khan for seeing something in us and believing on us and giving us an opportunity to end the Hurt Syndicate and AEW and for us to finish telling our story. So you've mentioned the word gratitude so many times throughout this conversation. It's a huge focus for my life. I like to pause every day and just like to focus on the things I have rather than being angry, about the things I don't have.

So I end every interview with this question. What are three things that you're grateful for right now? First, I'm grateful for my health. Because like I said, I'm 51. I'm about to be 52. And in wrestler years, you know, I think wrestlers age worse than dogs, right? So I'm strong, I'm healthy. I can still go.

I've had a lot of friends and colleagues over the years that they're not here anymore. You know, something else is very important to me and for the people that are watching this. Like, men specifically, you know, once you get in your late 40s, early 50s, please go get a CT scan. Please go get a C, make it see if your heart's clogged up.

I had last year, excuse me, I had four friends who were, we lost uptown Frankie Capone from Francisco Cajonzo my good friend Mike Taylor, Mike Sherer Um uh uh

uh uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, he took his own life, but he took his own life because he had

some heart issues that were, uh, um, I had, I had four friends altogether that died from heart-related issues that potentially could have been caught if they had had a CT scan

and, you know, where we're eating all this protein and meat and, you know, where you get yourself checked out, please. If you're in your late 40s, early 50s, go get a CT scan, see what shape your heart's in so that you don't die of a heart attack in the middle of the night out of nowhere. I'm grateful, first, for my health. Secondly, I'm grateful for my son

because I never wanted to be a dad. I just loved being a single bachelor jet-setting around the world. you know, and my son has forced me to look at the world through new eyes. And being a father, you know, my father wasn't a great father. He wasn't a bad guy. And I always say, my dad was a great guy to smoke a joint and, you know, shoot some pool with, drink some beer. But he wasn't a good father.

He was okay, you know, he had his moments. But overall, he wasn't anybody that you want to nominate for father of the year. And I always promised myself that if I am a good, I don't want it, but if it happened, I just had to be a better dad than my dad was to me. And my son makes me slow down. He makes me appreciate things differently. He makes me make decisions that probably aren't the, you know, I want to do this. But I'm going to go do this, you know, with my son.

And we're going to take that little guy to concerts and, you know, he makes me a better human being. so I'm grateful for my son and I guess last but not least I'm grateful to have had and to have the career that I have I mean it's rare

to have a career in the professional wrestling industry that spans two decades and you know some people again those people that only like McDonald's you know if you're not in WWE they think you're gone, you don't exist anymore, you know, but I was in Japan and I was in England and I was in Mexico and I was in all of these other places doing what I love, making a great living, you know,

making money with my friends, you know, and here I am at soon to be 52, still on television, you know, still relevant, as the kids like to say, you know, and I've had a blast, man, It's been an incredible ride and it's not done yet. And Dave Johnson, the Blackheart, he was trained by the Malinkos. And one of the things used to tell me all the time that the great Malenko used to say, there's no jewel at the end of the journey, kid. The journey is the jewel. And man, what a jewel.

I'm so grateful for the career that I've had and to still be here in this wrestling space all these years later. man, what a great quote to end this on. I love that. What a career you've had, what a career you're continuing to have. And thank you again for doing this and sitting down with me today. No, it's been a pleasure, man. This is the third time. Look, over almost a decade, you know.

Well, you know, I had the hurt syndicate on for the live show earlier this year too. Yes, yes, we did. Yes, we did. In my hometown in Toronto. Yeah, T. Dot. T. Dot. So I look forward to, I guess that'd be number five when we do that one. Yeah.

Wow. Marking out with MVP and Dwayne Swayze. It's on YouTube. Like, subscribe, comment. And typically my show is just me and Dwayne, but we've had a few episodes now where we've had guests. Well, we sprinkle them in here and there. We had Samoa Joe, Rickache, Mercedes, Mone.

We got one with Tony Storm. It's about to drop. So swing by marking out with MVP and Dwayne Swayze. Subscribe to my channel. I promise you that you love it. If you like this, if you like me, if you dislike me. I promise,

just give it a chance. There's things in there that you'll like. Thanks a lot for having me, man. A conversation with you always great. Appreciate it, man. All right. I love that conversation with MVP.

And he just gave that TED Talk, the one that he was talking about there, called Real Men, Get Help. I'm sure it'll be up on YouTube soon. The last TED Talk he did, the one from 2019 called, When Do I Stop Being Being a Criminal? That's on YouTube,

and I can't recommend it enough. It just, he just dives into so much, topics and it really makes you reframe the way that you think about things. Over the last few years, MVP has really cemented himself as an incredible manager, but he definitely still has a few more matches left in him. I just looked. He's wrestled one match in AEW this year, four other matches on the Indies. So five matches in total so far in 2025.

You can definitely still go. And I just can't wait to see what the future holds for him both in the ring. And then as a manager, he could be a manager for the next, however many, years he wants to be, 10, 20, 30, 40, however long he wants to do it. He can keep doing it because the only thing that he needs to work on there and like keep in shape there is just speaking.

He doesn't need to worry about how is your body holding up. How are your knees? It's just about like getting that story across by using his voice. I love it. Snap a screenshot and let us know what you thought of this episode. Tag us. He's at the 305 MVP. I'm at Chris Van Fleet

and we'll wrap this up with one of favorite quotes ever from Henry Ford. Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Be great and be grateful, my friends. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Ask CVV number 100 tomorrow. I can't wait. I'll see you back here tomorrow for that one. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air.

It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.