Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Natalya On Her New Character, Owen Hart, Montreal Screwjob, Tyson Kidd Accident, Vince McMahon

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Natalya (@NatByNature) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. She sit down with Chris Van Vliet in Tampa, FL to discuss her new autobiography "Last Hart Beating" and why now was the right time to release the book, the most difficult chapters to write about, why her path to WWE was not as easy as some may have expected, her new character outside of WWE that has competed at Bloodsport, GCW and the NWA, slapping Vince McMahon at WrestleMania 26, how she found out that Owen Hart had passed away at Over The Edge 1999, when her husband Tyson Kidd (TJ Wilson) broke his neck in the ring, being a Guinness World Record holder and more!   Buy Nattie's book "Last Hart Beating" here: https://a.co/d/aH2e47nPlease support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV2025Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount   NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvvTry it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insight to get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Flee. My dad made that bowl. He made that bowl? Yeah, he was in rehab. And it's in the book. I write about putting him in rehab, you know, and he made it in, I didn't write about the bowl in rehab. Or, like, I didn't write about this, but when I had to put my dad in treatment, he, they make them do stuff, like crafts and stuff like that. And he made that bowl.

That's beautiful. Thank you. And my mom made the fruits inside of it. Oh, my gosh. I know. I love this. My dad's not an artsy guy, so. Well, I mean, clearly this would disagree with that.

I think this is the most beautiful setting we've ever had for an interview. Thank you. I love this room. Me too. I can't believe you have a library in your house. I do. I love this room. The brick reminds me of the heart house.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, this is so beautiful. So thank you again for having us here. Yeah, of course. I don't know. Are we ready to roll? That's all good. Okay. Then we'll just roll with that then. Yeah. Congrats on the book. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Why did you feel like now was the right time to put your story out?

I, gosh, so many different reasons. I had been thinking about writing a book for a long time. And so when my contract was coming up last year in like June of 2024, one of the things that I really was like, I was like, I got some new goals. And I really, one of them was I want to do a book. And so that was one of the things I brought to WWE that I was like, listen, like, this is, this, this is a bunch of, there's a bunch of stuff that I want to do. And I really, really want to write a book. And I really need the company, like, I need you guys to give me your blessing on it. If we're going to move forward and I'm going to continue to work here because I love working for WWE, it's a huge part of my life. It's a huge part of who I am. I'm closing in on almost two decades, uninterrupted with WWE. It's half your

life. And so WWE is a big part of my life. It's that they're, they're my family. And, but I also have new, I have new goals and I have new dreams and I'm, I'm just that type of person that throughout my whole life, I always, I like to set new goals. And if I don't have goals or dreams or something to look forward to or work towards, I feel like I'm stagnant. When I was in school, I had to have things that I just love working towards new stuff. So the book, was like, listen, this is going to be part of a new chapter. I'm starting this next, you know, I'm starting this new deal with WWE and I want to be able to write the book. WWE was super supportive about the book. They were, they gave me their blessing and then some.

And I needed that because I, it's not like I'm writing the book as a WWE book. You know what I mean? This is my book and they're giving me their blessing. And so getting their support, having them have my back on it. Let me turn it. little beep off, sorry. I thought I turned my ringer. Okay, there we go, silent. It's all good. T.J. is texting me.

He said hi. But I just, I wanted to have new goals. So I, from the cover, I was like, hey, I want to have the women's championship on it and the Divas championship. The second I asked WWE, they were like, yep, no problem. Like, I was like, oh, my God, they're letting me put the, like, because, you know, that's, it's, it's their, their titles. Like, it's, I have to get permission to do that. it's not a WWB book, I have to still get permission to get all that stuff. You know, they gave me 16 photos to use that have never been used or never been seen before

by people. So they've just been so supportive, but I finally felt ready to tell my story. And the great thing is, is that when you read the book, you'll realize that there's still so much room for so much more story, which I love. But I also felt like I said this to my husband. I said this to TJ. I go, people don't really know me. I said, I've done a lot of interviews over the years. I've done a lot of media. I did total divas.

I've been essentially in WWE for, you know, January will be 19 years that I've been under contract. And I, I just don't feel like people know me. Why do you think that is? Because I've never been fully able to tell my story. I didn't. It wasn't like, it's not like, oh, WWE wouldn't let me. It was just that I never had the courage to fully tell my story. story. How much of your story do you think is the story just of your family? And people just lump in like,

oh, we know about the heart family. Then therefore we must know you. There's so much meat on the bone with my family. You know, people that you think of Owen, you think of Brett, you think of Davey, you think of Dynamite, you think of my dad, you think of my grandfather's stew. And then people kind of, like, they just assume it's all encompassing. That's the thing is that my book, my book, you know, we touch base on the family, but I didn't want to tell the Brett Hart story. I didn't want to tell the Owen Hart story. I didn't want to tell the British Bulldog story. I didn't want to tell the story of my grandfather. We touch on it, as you know, there's little bits because it's important for people that maybe don't know, like they don't know who Natty is. But the story is very different

than anything I've ever told before. So people that are reading the book, like, for example, Bianca Bel Air was one of the first people I let read the book. She read the book in two days on a flight to Belgium. We were doing an overseas tour, and she read it. She was sitting behind me on the plane, and I let her read it. And she read it so fast. And she was like, I had no idea about any of this. Like, this is a girl, you know, that I, like, know from work and that I'm friends with

and that, like, you know, we spend, you know, I'm not on the same brand as Bianca, but we've spent enough time together and she knows T.J. She's been down to the dungeon. Like, we know each other. And she's like, I didn't know about any of this. She's like, this is crazy. I can't believe this. She's like, I was laughing.

I was crying. I was yelling at the book. And she would text me. Every chapter Bianca would get through. She would send me a text and go, like, I can't believe this. Like, she was so engaged in it. And she's like, I just couldn't wait to get to the next chapter. And that's kind of how I wrote the book is that I wanted more than anything for the book to be an easy read.

I didn't want to leave any reader behind because I'm actually, like, for me, it takes me a minute to read a book. I have to read a page and then read it again. I've always kind of been a slow learner, but then when I get it, I really, really get it. So I wanted to keep my book very simple. And I wanted this book to be such an easy read that no reader is left behind. I think one of the things that surprised me the most was people will assume it was easy for you to get into WWE because you come from the legendary heart family. It wasn't.

Like there was not an easy path to get in. No. Like you had a lot of noes before they. finally said, all right, I guess we'll give you a chance. It was hard. And now that I'm this deep into my career, I'm so happy that it was hard because I grew so much from it being hard. Like, I think it's important to go through hard things.

If life was easy, we wouldn't grow. We wouldn't learn. We wouldn't be, like, for me, I built so much character in the struggle. I really, looking back on it now, I really best, most fun times, we're figuring it out. Like, I just have to figure it out. And I think that's the thing with me is that it's always been a challenge because on the outside you go, hey, well, she's part of the heart family. That's got to be a door opened. That's got to be a door open for her. Like that kind of gets her foot in the door. She's got a bit of a name. But when I was trying to get into WWE, you know, Brett still had conflict with Vince. And in Brett, like, I think it was like two years. No, sorry, Brett got got into the Hall of Fame 2006. I was starting to wrestle in 2001, 2001, 2000. One, I was like starting to, you know, have my first matches, my first series of matches. But I was green, green, green, green.

But Brett and Vince still had lots of conflict. And so that conflict wasn't really worked out for a long time. It was, it was still, you know, very intense. So for me, I think, I think it was hard because I was, yes, I have this name of being part of the heart family. But there was, like, there was tension. There was conflict that they have with Owen. And Owen's, not with Owen, but with Owen's wife, Martha, they had, you know, after Owen passed away. So tragically, the company had conflict there.

They had conflict with Brett. And, of course, like, my dad had been, my dad had worked in and out of WWE for many decades, but my dad had lost his job quite a bit. He was fired from WWE, I think, like, five times. And so there was just a lot of baggage with the Hart family. And I think that there was times that nobody told me this, but I could just assume this. that there was times that they were like, stay away from the hearts a little bit. You know, we got the stuff with Brett going on.

There was, you know, it just was complicated. But like families, families can be complicated. So it was just challenging for me to get hired. And I kept sending in tapes. I kept, you know, trying. I would never, ever, ever ask Brett to do anything. And also, Brett's not going to call anyone up because he's not on speaking terms with the company back then.

So it was just me sending in tapes to Dr. Tom Pritchard. Like, that was the only person that I knew of through a friend to send tapes to. And he was just the coach at developmental. I mean, he wasn't just a coach, but he wasn't like a head honcho. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, you know, my dad was making phone calls to Vince McMahon and I was getting, it was just so hard because the family, like, I couldn't, my dad was struggling with a lot

of personal stuff at that time and he wasn't well. And I just, but I love that it was hard for me to get hired. I love that so much because it was like, it just, it makes for a great story. When you talk about it took you a while to figure things. out. Is there a specific moment or match or promo where you're like, I feel like I finally got it now? I never feel like I finally have it, ever. I, and it's funny because I said this a while ago, I said the second this gets easy, I'm quitting. I love being challenged. I love when it's, I love when it's challenging. I love when a promo was hard. I love, I love working on stuff. I love, like,

even with the book, I couldn't leave the book alone. I was like, I kept on wanting to go back and, like, fix it and change it and make it better. And, like, I, there have been moments and matches and promos and things that I've done in my career where I've been really happy with it. But I am such a perfectionist at heart that I never feel like it's good enough. And that's also something we talk about in the book because that kind of perfectionism, it was a hurdle for me to work through. because I spent most of my career thinking about what everybody else would want for me. From when I started in Developmental, I was like, they want this right now. I have to be this.

Right now they want this. I have to be this. If I can just make this person happy, I know I can get ahead. If I can just do, like I was literally just, and it's not like, oh, you know, I was trying to please one single person. It was all the way from when I started in Developmental to when I got up to the main roster. And up until like the last year, I just kept thinking about, what, you know, whether it was the coaches at FCW, whether it was Vince McMahon, whether it was

Triple H, I kept thinking, what would they want for me? And I realized when I wrote the book, this book was a whole introspective, like, journey for myself. I realized, Natty, you need to stop worrying about what the fuck everybody else wants and you need to fucking do what you want to do. Like, you need to let down your guard, take the pressure off yourself. and you just need to be you. Maybe, maybe that will work. And that was such a strong, you know, that's a, it's a message in the book about like, sometimes the best things, sometimes the best things come from us just being our most

authentic selves. Like, maybe fucking me just being Natty. Maybe that is enough. We've seen like a whole new side of you over the last six months or so. There's a big difference, it seems, between Natalia and Natty. What's that difference for you? It's. it's been the most liberating feeling working on that character,

and it all just happened so organically. It really was a, it stemmed from the book. After I finished writing the book, I was like, oh my God, I know what I need to do now. I know what I need to do. I know what I need to do. I had signed this new contract with WWE, and I think with Triple H,

I think he really wanted to find the right thing. I think he didn't want to just throw me in stuff that didn't matter. I think he was, he really wanted to find the right thing. He, he wanted, and the thing with him is that he, I believe he's a forward thinker. So he was like, we just, we can't rush into it. We just have to find the right thing for you. And because I had expressed, like, when I was signing my new deal, I was like, I got to grow. I can't, this isn't just about money for me. This is about growing. You know, I have to grow. I have to evolve. I feel like I'm in the best shape of my life. I love wrestling and I want to just be, I need to be, I need something to

dive into. But when I was doing my contract, I didn't quite know what that was. It wasn't until I finished the book. So I was in a little bit of a creative rut. It was early this year. It was like February of this year. And I was like, man, like, WrestleMania is right around the corner. And I don't know where I fit in. I just, I know I'm not going to be on the card. I'm not in a storyline. I don't, no one's talking about where I fit in or, you know, because you can read the room. You can measure the pulse. I would talk to the writers. I would, I would try to, pick people's brains and go like, where do I fit in? And this, by the way, is after being in a company for over 18 years. Like, I'm still climbing and scratching and clawing for my spot,

which is half the battle and half the beauty. So Josh Burnett and I got to talking and he was like, let's do bloodsport. You know, and I was like, I'd love to do blood sport. We got to talking about me doing blood sport. And I said, I'm going to ask for permission. I walked up to Triple H. He was at the ring side. He was doing a rehearsal for Monday Night Raw. I walked up to him. I told him, listen, I've spoken to Josh Burnett. I would love to do bloodsport. And Hunter was like, sure. I was so, like, afraid that he was going to say no because I was like, I really, really, really want to do something mania weekend. I need to do something. I need to like, my creative juices are just feeling so stifled. He said, yes, right away. And he's like, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

No problem at all. And I know that the company really respects Josh and they, they, they've let talent work and do stuff at Bloodsport before. He said yes so supportively that I was like, I remember that day, I was so excited. I ran up to CJ and I was like, Hunter loved it. He was like, yeah, go for it. So I took that as a, this is my mission to build something that I've never built before. So you didn't even have the idea of the new character. I didn't. Just knew they said yes to Bloodsport. Let's figure it out. And then I was off to the races. I needed to get Hunter's permission because it's not, you know, it's not often that, especially when I was working for Vince, you weren't really, you know, it was unheard of to work and build something outside of the company. Because you're a contracted WWE talent. But within reason, Hunter, you know, because they had a relationship with Josh and, like,

the company's still very careful. They can't just let us run renegade and just do whatever the hell we want. You know, we're still under contract. But within reason, I think they like it, you know, they want, talent to grow too. And so they, they're selective and rightfully so. They protect us sometimes from ourselves because if I could do every indie that I was asked to do, I would have done them, trust me. But I started building the character. And I was like, I want her hair to be different. I want her outfit to be different. I want her energy to be different. I want her music to be

different. I want her to have a, she's got a fight club that she walks out to the ring with. And like, I just had this whole vision of like this girl that I always have, this person that's always been inside of me. It was so easy to put on that black body suit. And I wanted on the body suit my name. I wanted my real name because that character was inside of me from my very first days training in the dungeon. That was who I always wanted to be. But I get emotional talking about it, but I never wanted to be her because I didn't feel like anybody else would like her, but me. So I was like, Vince will never like her. She'll, you know, this isn't what he wants. And, you know, the coaches at FCW, they won't understand it. Like, I, I went back to everything I needed to be for me. And I wasn't

trying to get the job. I wasn't trying to get, like, you know, when you're trying to get the job, you're trying to do what you can to think about what they want. And I have had a, Natalia's had an incredible run. Natalia, and I'm speaking about her in the third, like, party, she's, as a character. As a character. She, she is, she's a hall of, I believe, she's a Hall of Famer, sure. She's had the most, you know, she's got six world records for out wrestling everyone. That's fantastic. But she did that to survive. She was the, she would, could work with anybody. I've worked with over 65, you know, Natalia's worked with over 65 different people. I've done, I've done so many first ever is. I've had great matches. I've had monumental moments. I've had so much fun. But it was a

character that I felt like I had to do to survive and make sure everybody was happy. I wanted to make the girls in the locker room happy. I wanted to make management happy. I wanted to make my family proud. And I wanted to just, you know, be everything that my dad wasn't, which, you know, my dad wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't stable. He wasn't reliable. He was going through, which I talk about in the book. He was going through a, which I talk about in the book. He was going through the hardest times of his life suffering from my dad had a very serious brain injury. And nobody knew that, but I just knew growing up, like, he got let go from WWE so many times. I was like, I am bound and determined to be everything everybody needs for me.

So I'll never be like my dad and I'll never let anybody down. And you write in the book that he was dealing with a lot of CTE, which you didn't know until Chris Nguyenzy, he studied his brain and found that out. And he, you know, in a nutshell, because I don't want to give everything away that's in the but my dad was living most of his adult life with a brain injury. And my dad was playing football when he was, he started playing football when he was 11 years old. He was, you know, when he was in the NFL, he was a nose guard.

My dad would talk about it all the time when we were growing up. He would, it was almost like he would brag about, you know, his coaches loved how even when he got his bell rung, as he would put it, he would keep playing. He'd keep going. He'd get back out on the field. he would, he said his coaches would say, if everybody would play as hard as Jim Knighthart plays, we would win everything.

Because when my dad would, would play hard and, you know, and some of that was getting his bell rung without proper helmets, he would never stop playing. He'd just keep going and going and going and going. And this is as an early team, you know, and it's back in, you know, back in the 60s, back in in the 70s when there wasn't, you know, people didn't have as much information as they have now. So those mistakes in his early years before he ever, you know, got into wrestling, I do think that my dad suffered a lot of damage to his brain. It's so interesting because I feel like you grow up either trying to be like your parents or trying to be not like your parents. And it sounds like in your dad's professional career, you wanted to be the furthest thing from him.

You wanted to be reliable. Yes. You wanted to be someone that people could count on. And that's who you've been for almost 19 years in WWE. And now when I'm, you know, doing the new character, being able to do the new character, I wanted to show everybody something different when I did the first blood sport. I was like, I might not be in WrestleMania, but I'm going to take this opportunity that Triple H is letting me do.

And I'm going to show him and everyone else that if you give me a scrap, I'm going to blow it up, I'm going to make it magic. And I built promos with it. I built a storyline with Mew, who was a phenomenal, Mew is one of the best, female wrestlers in the world. I had a vision for the match. I had a vision for the promos. I had a vision for the story. I had a vision for the energy. And I was like, how can we parlay this into the next thing that I'm going to do, which is NWA? And Billy Corgan is a really good friend of mine. And so I reached out to Billy. And I said, Billy, I love NWA. I love what you're doing.

He runs a very, very professional show. It reminds me in my grandfather's Stampede Wrestling. It's really cool what they do with NWA. I asked him if I could do NWA. And, and I, I run a very professional show. I wanted to show people that, hey, the performance that you saw from me at Bloodsport, that was not a fluke. Watch me at NWA. Watch me give a performance even better at NWA. And it was a massive success. We sold out the ECW arena. The next month, I reached out to Booker T.

And I said, Booker, I want to wrestle for reality of wrestling. I went to Triple H. You know, we were very, he has helped me with these opportunities. and he's been on the journey with me, even though, like, it's their outside projects. I can't do these projects without his permission. So he said, yes, no problem. I wanted to show people that the match that I had in ECW or at the ECW arena with NWA against Kenzie Page, I wanted to show people that the next match would be even better.

And I did it. And then I asked Josh again, if, hey, let, you know, we collaborated for SummerSlam weekend for the second Bloodsport. Josh was so he was so excited about the match that he was like, listen, you guys have the biggest story for the card.

I want you guys in the main event. Nick Kahn came to watch because Nick, Nick is, that's what I love about Nick, is that he's also a student of the game. He's somebody that, you know, he might be a big executive in WWE, but at his core, he's a fan.

He's a fan. He's been a fan since he was a kid. So seeing him at Bloodsport, I was like, this is amazing. And it just inspired me to go, like, sometimes these little things are actually really, really big things. But it was all about building that momentum. And the company trusted me to let me do it. And then I said to TJ, I go, I think I'm the first person in WWE to build a character outside of the company.

Like to really build a character in other promotions. Like, in my mind, I'm thinking Cactus Jack. You know what I mean? But, like, Cactus Jack was, you know, he wasn't under, like, he wasn't doing the Indies when he was in, you know, it was Mick Bowley in WWE. But I think Cactus Jack outside of WWE, McFaulley, inside WWE. You see the two contrasting characters. That's where a lot of the inspiration came from. And then you actually brought something up to me, which I thought was brilliant.

You were like, I think, oh gosh, maybe, sorry. I think it was you, but you were talking about Brett. Yeah. Yes, it was you. Sorry, I've had like six cups of coffee and I'm still not all there. Keep them coming. It was about Brett and Canada and how Brett was good and Canada and bad. the U.S.

Yeah. And so it's just about the contrast. It's about doing stuff that's thought provoking and that people can get engaged with. And people started liking this fresh different side. I love the theme song. It's Rage Against the Machine. Yes. Yeah.

But like with your like sting at the start of it. Yes. And then into Rage Against the Machine. It's, it's just different. I just wanted different and I wanted the energy to be different. And it's just a gritty. But the thing is is I can do it. I can do it.

I can easily parlay it into WWE. And so that's the hope. that while it's taken me a long time for my ship to really come in, I really, I want to, I really want to go on a powerful run in WW. Yeah, that's my goal. That's my dream. That's my, I think when people read the book, I think it's going to move them. It's going to move them in a way that, like, I want people to cry. I want them to laugh their asses off. I want tears streaming down their face when they're getting to those powerful chapters. And they're like, holy shit, I can't wait to get to the next page. Because I'm telling you, people are going to read this book

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and the design is nice and simple how I like it. They have a ton of stretch, and they're made from a cooling fabric that never loses its shape. But most importantly, these are comfortable. So comfortable. Shop skimsmen's at skimmed.com slash CVV and let them know that we sent you there. So after you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select our show. Insight with Chris Van Vleet from the drop down menu. There's some really powerful stories in there and there's a lot of like difficult topics that you cover. Yes. Yes. What was the most difficult thing to put pen to paper with? I think the most difficult topic to cover was T.J.'s injury.

I had sleepless nights writing that, writing about those chapters. Those were the chapters that I just, they pulled at my heart. Because they were really, even with the stuff that, you know, we think about the heart family, you think about all the things, there's been highs and lows. Yeah. You know, Owen's death was very tragic. Um, my dad in his struggles, you know, growing up with a parent that my dad struggled his whole entire adult life. And so I had so much instability that when I was a kid that I've never shared.

You know, I've never shared any of it until writing this book that people were like, oh, I had no idea that for two years, my sisters and my mom and I lived at my grandfather's house. And we shared a bed. We shared one bed. And we all four slept in that bed for two years. because my dad had lost his, he lost everything. And so my mom was trying to create some stability for us. And we were never, ever homeless. We lived at the heart house. But there was only one available room, you know? And so it really taught me about like, I got a sink or swim.

You know what I mean? Those were hard chapters to write about because I talk a lot about my dad's addiction and the things that we went through. And it was just, those were hard. But they were nothing like writing about T.J.'s chapters of his injury and what we went through. And you were right there for it. I was there for right there at ringside when it happened. I was there for all of it. And I just, it's, it was, it was just so. And the big thing was just, I know how much T.J. loves wrestling. So when I saw right in the like snap of a finger, his whole,

everything was just gone. Did you, did you know right away? I just knew. When Joe hit the muscle buster, did you know that T.J. was injured? I just, I knew T. I knew T. T. I knew T. It couldn't move. So I knew. So I knew he couldn't move and he said like because Cizaro was trying to talk to him and he's and he he couldn't move like he he literally just wouldn't like he I knew he wasn't okay I knew what by the way his like hands kind of like everything just was like curled you know what I mean almost like for a split second I don't want to like I don't want to get too dramatic but his like his he didn't look like a normal landing his body just looked look different um you know sometimes if you hit like a spider they kind of curl up a little bit.

It looked like he landed in a way that his body didn't look natural and at ease. Because when T.J. first landed, he was paralyzed for like 10 seconds. And so Claudio tried to grab him to pull him out of the ring. And T.J. said, don't touch me. Don't touch me. And then he ended up, you know, T.J. was after being paralyzed for 10 seconds, T.J. was able to, like, regroup. He got up. He launched himself out of the ring. And that's the thing is that when you saw the way that T. And I write a lot about it and I go into detail again, don't want to give it all away. But when I saw how TJ was acting, he wasn't acting like someone that broke his neck. You know, like he was, like,

you know, when you think of somebody that is injured, they're limping, they're, they're vulnerable, they're crying. They're, like, their, TJ was angry. I think we envision it as he breaks his neck in the ring, the match immediately would stop, put him on a board, like, put him into an ambulance and take him away. I was shocked to learn that he walked out of the room, walked to the back, Took a shower. Yeah. He was very angry and it was because he was scared. And so that's the thing is that people deal with trauma in different ways.

You know what I mean? So like, for example, like when I had broken my ankle many years ago, 2016, small little injury, but like I remember just being so scared. I wanted the whole match to just end right then and there. T.J. I think because of being paralyzed, it's scared him. Like it scared him in a way that he was like. like it went from fear to rage. So once he was not paralyzed anymore, he was like, the fear, the fear turned into rage.

So people really didn't know that he had a broken neck because he was walking around like normal. You know, he was walking around. And he was just very, very angry and scared and all of it was just coming out all at once. But that was a hard, those were hard chapters to write about because I just knew once we found out like from the doctors. that TJ had this type of injury, they were like, the one doctor was so blunt. He was like, oh, yeah, you're never, ever wrestling again. You'll have to find another profession. You know, he was very, very cold and blunt. And I wrote about it in the book, but like I just looked at Cizaro, because Cizaro was with us at the hospital. Cizaro had like a tear, like, rolling down his

face. And, you know, because you saw like, you know, everybody that knows T.J. just knows that he loves this. You know, and Cizaro just knew that that was like a death. In losing something that you love so much, there was a grieving there too. And I also will say, just adding this, and I wrote about this in the book, my heart broke for Samoa Joe, because nobody wants to ever go through anything like that. That was the last thing in the world that he wanted. You know, he is somebody that in the industry, Joe, I believe, and I have a pretty good pulse on the industry, not just in WWE. Joe is very respected. He's a great guy. He's like a, the guys love Joe. He's got a great reputation. He's a great person. He loves the industry. He's very honorable. So it was the last

thing in the world that Joe wanted. So my heart also broke for Joe because I just, I just always felt so bad that he had to carry that too. And people had, you know, people, people say mean things. all the time to all of us on social media. But that's the last thing in the world that Joe wanted. So it just kind of like, I always had a little spot in my heart for him after that because I was like, he didn't want that, you know. And nobody, nobody wanted it. It was a shitty situation. Nobody, nobody wants, nobody across the board wanted that to happen, but it happened. And it was something that we had to go through. And I will say, and I've said this before on your show, TJ's injury led him to, I think, the best chapter of his career because he has been able to reach so many more people in WWE and in wrestling and in the world by doing the stuff that he's doing now.

I think it was, unfortunately, it was part of his destiny. And you got to sometimes, you can't, you can't fuck with your destiny. You got to, you got to let it happen and then you got to let it help you grow. everybody wrestles their last match at some point in time. Unfortunately, not everybody knows when that last match is. Right. So like that was 10 years ago like this summer, right?

June 1st, 2015. Yep. TJ went out there not knowing that would be the last time he would ever wrestle. And that's, TJ said that to me before because I'll get, you know, upset about certain things or I'll be like, this match could have been better. I'm annoyed about this or I want this to be better. I wish I could do this. Or TJ goes, Natty, he goes, when it's all said and done, he goes, I don't think about the creative.

I don't think about winning or losing. I don't think about the times that I didn't like a match. I don't even think about any of it. He goes, you know what I think about now that it's all set or done? He goes, I think about the moments with the boys in the locker room. He goes, I think about the bus rides that we've had in Europe, where we'll all be on a big bus and Undertaker will be telling stories and you have everybody's, you know, joking or somebody like, he's like all that,

you know, he'll be, he'll be laughing his ass off with Jay Uso. Because T.J. We were the Uso's introduction, but the Uso's are so much fun. Like, they're fun people to like hang out with. He's like, you know, I think about the bus rides in Europe. I think about being with the boys in the locker room. I think about the guys, the girls. I think about like, you know, he's like, I think about the people.

You know, he thinks about the talent. When I say guys and girls, I mean, the men and women of WWE that we've worked for, worked with, had relationships, you know, built bonds, all that stuff. You know, we were the Uso's first feud. We were, T.J. loves his matches with, you know, he goes back and watches these old matches of him with, he loved, loved this triple threat between him and Czaro and Dolf Ziegler. Loved it.

And he goes back, he's like, I just love those moments with the boys. He's like, don't, you'll never think about the bullshit. You'll think about the good stuff because he's like, it's like, it's like, you never know. You never know when it's going to be the last time. And that's why TJ, to this day, he still changes with the talent. He still changes in the men's locker room because they have a place for the producers to change. And then they have, you know, but TJ's always, he just, I think just because he got injured,

he's like, no, but I still need to change with the boys. I still, when you get to the building, he comes in a suit, he does the production meeting. And then he still changes with the guys in the locker room because he just, the relationships and the bonds that he has with the wrestlers. And the talent, he just, they never died. They're always there. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg.

And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Times ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim. And they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are.

U.S. Soccer Podcast. Presented by Henkoe. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. There's a line in your book that really stood out for me, talking about the heart family and the relationship that you guys have with wrestling. Your dad told you this, quote, nobody in our family has cashed out yet with their money and their health. If you want to be the first of anything in this family, be the first to leave without being

broke or broken. that came from a conversation that my dad and I had when I went on my first tour of Japan. And my dad was so upset, he did not want me going to Japan. He did not want me wrestling. He did not want me getting hurt. And we had a knockdown, drag out fight. I mean, it was not physical, but my dad was upset. He was like, you're going to get hurt over there.

You're going to get your teeth knocked out. You're going to break your neck. He was like, you're not, you know, he was basically saying, like, you're not ready to go over. there. This industry is tough. He didn't want to see me get hurt the way that he had gotten hurt emotionally and physically. And I told my dad, I was like, I'm going to go over there and I'm going to prove you wrong. And my dad said to me, he goes, nobody in our family has ever beaten the house. And when he was talking about beating the house, he was like, the house is wrestling. He's like, nobody has ever beaten the house. From Stu to Owen to Brett to Davy, T.J., you know, they, like, the

I'm talking about in WWE, he's like, I don't want you to get hurt. And I don't want you to end up in this business like broke or broken. So my dad really, like he didn't want me wrestling. And I've talked about that before. Well, I realized all along that my dad was right. That in a family that's done everything from Brett, I mean, Brett's a three-time WWE Hall of Famer. He's had some of the most iconic matches in the history of the industry that are timeless. I mean, he's one of the greatest professional wrestlers that ever lived.

Owen was magical. Owen had his own, like, you know, people talk of Owen. I don't know of a pro wrestler or a person that's talked of more lovingly than Owen. The British Bulldogs, my uncle's Davy and Dynamite, they did magical work. They're iconic. My dad, you know, at WWE Hall of Famer, my grandfather at WWI, Hall of Famer. In a family that's done at all, I will never be the first to main events of WrestleMania in my family. I'll never be the first person in my family that has won a championship

or, you know, gotten in the Hall of Fame. But I do believe that I will be the first to beat the house. And it's not just a message for me. It's a message for other people in their life to redefine the way that they look at success. Because at the end of the day, if you have all the money in the world and all these accolades and all these things that you can hold in your hand, like championships, medals, trophies, whatever that is, you know, things that are tangible that you can feel. If you've got all of that and you're not happy inside with who you are, you did not beat the house. And you did not win. And that's the thing is that life is about finding what the fuck it is that sets your soul on fire. What is it that makes you wake up in the morning and feel alive?

For me, it was going back and wrestling in front of 200 people on the independence and reinventing and building this new character where I said to my, I said to TJ, I go, you know what I love about Natty? She is an 18-year veteran with the hunger of a rookie. The hunger and the drive of a rookie. That is something that no one else is doing. She has the drive and the determination and the hunger of somebody in their first year, because this is my first year as Natty.

But she's got this ring IQ of an 18-year veteran. And it's going to be difficult because you've always been known for your wrestling. You've always been known for what happens bell to bell, right, in the ring. Yet you came into WWE in an era when, honestly, that didn't really matter. No. You came into WWE when in the divas era, right? Like you were coming in with the divas. belt at 2007, eight, nine.

That must have been so difficult. It was so difficult because I realized that I was never going to dance like a month. I was never going to, I couldn't dance to save my life. I tried so, so hard. I took dance classes. I hired private, like, coaches to try to, because I, because I had always heard Vince loved dancing. So I wanted to, like, I wanted to, okay, let me, let me learn how to dance.

They'll love that. I sucked at it. I wrote about that in the book, but I was like, I got to try to lose weight. I got to try to be thin. I got to look like Tori Wilson. I always had Tori on like this pedestal because she's, to me, like, she's just like, like, I love her physique.

And she's so beautiful. I was like, I always wanted to look like Tori. But I couldn't because my body's not like Tori's. And I realized that all these things that I thought that they wanted, you know, at that time, I was like, I know what they'll like. What if? What if I made every single girl I worked with look like? gold. What if I was the, maybe not the star, but you know what I can do really well? I'll be

the star maker. I'll be Vince's star maker. That's been like your career. I wanted to be Vince's star maker. I wanted to be the girl that Vince would go or creative would go put her with Natty, put her with Natty because I was like, listen, Natty, you know, this Natalia, whatever you want, when I was first getting started, I was like, they don't want me. They don't want this. They don't, I'm never going to be them. I'm never going to look like Tori. I'm never going to look like Kelly Kelly. I'm never going to like, but you know what I can do?

I can make those girls look like a million bucks. And that will be how I get my in. And I actually started to look at myself the way that I felt like they were looking at me, where I was like, I don't really know if I'm worthy of being the champion. I don't think I am. Did you really feel that way? Yeah. I started to feel like I was just lucky to have the job.

I was like, do you know how I started to almost like talk myself into, do you know how lucky you are to even have this contract with WWE that so many people are fighting to even just get their foot in the door? You know, I know it's a big dream of yours to be the champion, but like you're not in the back of my mind, I started to believe at all. You're not exactly what they want. You're not, you're not, you're not, you're not it. You don't have that it factor. You're not, you're not, you're not, you're not the star. You don't look like a star. You don't present yourself like a star. You don't have the aura of a star, but you're lucky that you have a job, Natty. And so just help everyone. Be there for everyone and make sure that you do your best to make

everyone look like gold. I kind of, like, I really like embrace that. And then it wasn't until Beth Phoenix, you know, we tap into this in the book, but Beth Phoenix was coming back from an injury. and she had heard rumblings that they wanted to put the divas title on her. And she said to me, she called me up and she's like, hey, I don't, I'm not quite ready. She's like, I'm coming back from an ACL injury. She's like, Natty, they want to put the title on me. She goes, but you need to try to fight for the title. She's like, go try to fight for it.

Go, go. She's like, if you don't believe in yourself, no one's going to believe in you. She's like, you got to be your biggest advocate. Nobody's going to know how to fight for you better than you. So Beth really urged me to fight. So I did. And I pled my case and I was like, and then I left going, I can't believe I pulled that. Like, I can't believe I even just presented that to like, I wanted to be the champion.

Like I felt so embarrassed that I was trying to tell my bosses that I wanted to be champion when it's like, no, we all should fucking want to be champion. If you're wrestling in WWE or wherever it is that you're working for and you don't want to be a champion, you don't belong in the company. But I had just talked myself into you're not really that. You're not what they want. And so Beth urged me. I did. It was not easy. It wasn't something that Vince agreed to right away, but we did it.

And, you know, that was my first little taste at being the champion. And then it didn't last long. So it lasted, I think, just a couple months. And then I was like back to, I told you, you made a mistake. But did that moment when you wanted, did that mean something? to you? It meant a lot to me. But then when I won it, all I could think of, Chris, from the moment that I won that first divas championship, my first championship in WWE, all I could think about was how I wasn't going to be enough to keep it. I couldn't actually enjoy it because I just kept thinking in my mind,

like, they're not going to like me enough to keep this title on me. They're going to find, they're going to, you know, it'll be a promo that I cut that isn't good, or then my next match won't be good, or maybe Vince will change is mine tomorrow and just won it off of me. I couldn't actually enjoy it because the truth is, I didn't feel worthy of it. I did not feel worthy at all of being champion. I felt like, I felt like I just needed to be the one to help everyone else. And I didn't feel like I was the star. Did you feel worthy when you won the women's championship? Yes. Yes. I did. That was a different feeling. It was a different feeling because I was like, you didn't enjoy it, Natty, when you were the divas champion. You beat yourself up. You, you.

had such a complex that you weren't good enough. You were so worried about trying to please everyone that you never enjoyed it. So it took me another seven years to win that championship that I won with Naomi. And I finally, when I won that, Naomi was so excited that I was winning. Like, and this is the girl that's about to lose her championship. Yeah. She was so excited that I was winning. And TJ, I said to TJ, I'm like, I hope, like, I hope she's not mad that, like, you know, I'm going to take her title from her, whatever. She's like, Natty, he's like, you've earned this. Have you not earned this?

Have you not put in the work? Have you not put in the time? Have you not? He's like, it's about you tonight. And so literally minutes after I said that, Naomi was, she was like hugging me and dancing and she's like, we're going to make this match. Like she was like, it was her victory too.

She was like, she was on fucking cloud nine. She was so excited. And I finally felt like, you know, this is a big question. I want everybody to ask themselves when they get finished reading my book. Why not me? Why not me? And I finally was able to say that when I, when I won that women's championship, why can't I? Why can't I do this? Why can't I write a book? Why can't I star in a movie if I want to do that? Why can't I, you know, why can't I, you know, work on this or do that? Or why can't we reach for our dreams? Like sometimes we're the ones that are stopping ourselves.

And that's the biggest thing to me when I won that championship. I was like, why not me? I'm just as good as everyone else. I do feel worthy of having this. And I do feel like I finally earned it. I feel like for whatever reason, you don't get the respect you deserve in your career. And maybe it's starting to happen now. But perhaps it's what you were talking about earlier.

You've been so good at making other people look good that people don't realize the common denominator is you. Well, first of all, thank you. I really appreciate that compliment. I will never blame anyone for any of it. Like, I won't ever go, you know, it's creative and they didn't give me enough. And I should have had this and I should have had that. And, you know, people thought I just got everything because of my family. It's like, I'll never ever say that because I don't feel that way. I think for me, I have actually worked to my own detriment because I was my own worst enemy. I didn't allow myself to always grow because I felt like it was a safer place for me a lot of the times to just try to make everyone happy. And it wasn't, I got booked. I wrestled over 65 different women. I was booked and busy and working like crazy. But I wasn't always doing stuff that set my soul on fire.

I was trying to make sure that I just did everything that everybody wanted. And there were moments where I could have made suggestions. and there were moments where I could have spoken up and there were moments that I could have fought for more and I didn't ever want to rock the boat you know and so I think now in showing the world what this new character can do it's like how can I ever get mad at WWE

for giving me everything I have in my life everything I have in my life is because of wrestling everything my house my car my relationships my family I was able to when my dad was dying I was able to give my parents a great life. That if my dad, if I didn't have WWE helping me, giving me the career of my dreams,

I would never have been able to take care of my dad who died penniless. I can tell how much your dad means to you with just the way you're sharing about him now and also your book starts with your dad's death and ends with your dad's death. Do you think about him every day? Yes.

and I also don't feel like he's gone. You know, it's funny is that I don't even feel like my dad is gone at all. I just, I talk to him all the time. I see his photos. I see his pictures. I look at his old text messages. And I just think that, especially in writing this book, I think so many people are going to look at my dad differently.

Because I dedicated my book to my dad. We had a complex relationship. But I loved him so much, and I would fight for him. I would fight for my dad until the end. But he wasn't perfect. And he also wasn't a great parent. He did the best that he could. My dad did honestly the best that he could with his physical mental capabilities.

And that's the thing is that like when I look at the book and I look at my, look at my relationship with Vince McMahon, and I'm bringing this up because, again, it was complicated. Vince was like a father to so many of us. Like when my own dad couldn't be a good dad to me, Vince was like a dad. I could Vince, very last chapter of my book, I make that call. The first person that I called was Vince.

After my father, after my sister told me that my dad died, I called Vince, picked up on one ring and was there for me. Like he was like, what do you need from us? Like, he's like just, he wants, wanted me to send them every single photo I had of my dad because they were going to make this beautiful montage of my dad. But, you know, that's the thing about Vince is that, like, you know, as you read through the book, like, just like my dad, he wasn't perfect. He was complicated.

He had his flaws. He had his quirks. He had his imperfections. But at the end of the day, he was there for me. And like the same thing with my dad. And I don't feel bad saying that my dad wasn't a good parent. He struggled so much. I don't think my dad knew how to be a good parent. He was gone 300 days a year sometimes. And he had his own complicated relationship. Yes. When he was growing up. He had, and he also, which I didn't know until after he died, he was also living most of his adult life with a brain injury.

So it was very challenging for my dad to be a good parent. But my dad, I love him unconditionally. And I have a great relationship with, I had a great relationship with him. But I also learned so much from my dad. and I learned so much from Vince and I've learned so much in working for WWE and I've learned so much from the industry about finding myself

and that sometimes it takes, it could take your whole life for your ship to come in. Look at the rock right now. And the reason why I'm bringing up the rock is because he's about, I think his movie comes out tonight. He's doing him, he's in the smashing machine.

People are talking about it. It's the role of a lifetime. It is. It's his, and people are saying it's the work of his lifetime. Yeah. He's in his 50s. This is the biggest star in Hollywood who's in his 50s, in the best shape of his life,

doing the best work of his life, because why not? Why not him? And I'm bringing it back to that because it's like there's been moments that he's had movies that have done great. He's had movies that have not done so great. He's done stuff in WWE. That's been amazing and the good, bad and everything in between. It's never too late to start.

It's never too late to dream big. It's never too late to do your best work. And so he is a huge reason why I really wanted him. I really wanted Dwayne to be a part of my book. And so when I asked him to do the foreword for the book, because I asked Brett to be a part of the book. I wanted Brett doing the introduction of the book. I wanted Brett's words to be the first words that everybody reads.

Because Brett has a story that he shares in the book that he's never shared it before. And I've never shared it. I wanted Dwayne to do the forward because Dwayne, His grandmother was a promoter. My grandfather was a promoter. Duane's dad was a wrestler. My dad is a wrestler, was a wrestler. Dwayne was the first third-generation superstar in WWE,

and I'm the first female, third-generation superstar in WWE, and we had these parallels. But when I asked him for his help, in true Dwayne fashion, he researched the part. He researched it. He sent me multiple, he sent me so many messages about how he could make this forward amazing. He asked me questions. He's like, I need to know this from you. He goes, what does legacy mean to you? He's like, because I'm going to write this. I'm going to write it.

I'm going to write it and I'm going to write it like I'm going to work on this. This is like a project for me. He goes, what does legacy mean to you, Natty? What does it mean to you? And because Dwayne had asked me that question about what does legacy mean to you? He helped me with the very ending of my book. He helped me close. It was like it was because he asked me that question for his forward that I started writing and I was like, that's the ending. That's what we were struggling with. Now I got it. I got it. And so, and he just, he got it right. His forward, it was perfect. So, but, but I look at him right now and I'm like, why can't, people think, oh, you're getting older. You can't do this. You can't do that because, you know, you can't.

You know, when women get in their 40s, they can't. It's like, why the fuck can I? And by the way, in WWE, and I could be wrong, and maybe I am. I don't feel like Triple H cares about like, he's not going well, we're not going to push this person because he doesn't care. If you look good, if you look good and you can do great work and tell good stories and represent yourself and the company well and you can hit home runs, he, that's, I believe, what he cares about. And so it's cool because, again, we're not worrying about like, it's just if there's a different energy and there's a different air that, like, I can do the best work in my career right now. Like, my ship hasn't come in, but it's about to come in and I'm really excited for it. For a long time,

there was a contentious relationship between the Hart family and the McMahon family. Then WrestleMania 26 comes around and there's a match between Brett Hart and Vince McMahon. And you're part of this match. So what was it like to be to be part of that? It was crazy because we only found out that we were going to be part of that the night before. So Vince wanted to do this. Vince and Brett were going to do the match. And then Vince had decided the night before that he wanted the whole family out there.

So the family was already there because Brett was in the hall fame. So they were, what year was that? What year was the match? 15 years ago, right? Man, so why was the family there? Somebody was in the Hall of Fame that year. Would that be 09? Maybe they weren't in the Hall of Fame.

Sorry, there's been so many damn Hall of Fame. Everybody's getting inducted. So maybe, maybe, I can't remember what it was, but the family was there. And then Vince decided, listen, the whole family's here. Maybe, maybe we'll just get them all in the ring. get them all out there, get them all out there with Brett. But then they decided that they wanted Vince wanted me to slap him. 2010.

2010. Was Stu, I think maybe Stu was going into the Hall of Fame. Anyway, the family, the whole entire. That was the one in Phoenix. The whole entire Hart family was going to be at WrestleMania. So Vince wanted us all out there. And then I ended up slapping, Vince wanted me to slap him. And so Vince, before the match, Vince pulled me aside and he was like,

I really want you to have this moment. And I thought that was great. You know, he really cared about me having that moment. And so he was like, but you have to promise me one thing, Natalie. He's like, you have to slap me as hard as you can. How does he call you Natalie? He always, always, always called me Natalie. And so he made me promise him that I was going to hit him hard.

He was like, it has to look real. Because Vince wanted it to, he didn't want me being scared that he was the boss, you know, where I maybe whiff him or don't touch him or like, imagine me at WrestleMania not actually hitting him. and like I totally miss his base or whatever. He was like, it needs to look good. It needs to look real. And after the match, Hunter was like,

who taught you how to slap, Steph? She's known for her slaps. And she's a hell of a slap. Yeah. Yeah, there was just wild scene that culmination, right? Because it felt like for a long time there was really no relationship there. And it makes me curious.

Do you remember where you were watching over the edge 99? When the pay-per-view, when Owen passed away. Yes. I was at my uncle's house. I was at the British Bulldogs house. Davies House.

T.J. was there with me. We were watching the pay-per-view. And that day was just, I'll never, ever forget. Just, we were in Davy's living room, and we were just watching the show because we always watched pay-per-views that family was on. Like, if we could watch them, we always watched the pay-per-views. And my grandfather lived, like, right below Davy.

They lived like, Davy lived up on the hill and my grandfather lived at the bottom of the hill. And it was like, everybody just was in, yeah, it was just a crazy, crazy time. When did you realize something had happened? Because if you're watching the show, seems okay. My grandfather had gotten a call from Vince. And it was just like that was when we knew that like Owen was not okay. Um, but, but Martha lived, Owen and Martha lived about 20 minutes for my grandparents. And so, you know, it was just, we all lived in Calgary at the time. So it was just, yeah, that was a very,

I think that was the hardest thing my family ever went through. I think it just caused this domino effect of chaos. You know, my grandmother, my grandfather was much stronger than my grandmother, but my grandmother, Helen, I don't think she ever got over it. And then I think, I think, I do believe that she died from a broken heart. You know, I think that, like, she had a lot of health complications after that, but she never really got over Owen. Like, she just never, and it's something you don't get over that. But she, she never was, she was never okay after that.

And so it was very hard on my grandfather because my grandmother was his everything. So it was just a very, very traumatic time for our family. Did that fracture the relationship with WWE more than what happened? at Survivor Series 97 with a screw job? I think in different ways, yes. I think, you know. Because that started it, right? That was 97 and then two years later is Owen's death.

I think it was definitely way more impactful. It was more traumatic for the family, for sure. Like Owen dying was much more traumatic. I think. But the relationship was already like. Well, I think with Brett and everything that happened there, it was like it was just deep scar. deep, deep wounds.

And it felt like anger, maybe. Just so much going on when you look at, you know, the relationship, it's complicated. Because, you know, Brett and Vince were very, very close. And, you know, Brett loved what he did in WWE. And he had this beautiful career. And again, it's complicated. But it's, it's become like a, it's crazy how like, you know, nearly three decades later, people still talk about the screw job.

Sure. Because it was, again, one of the biggest, it, this, it's, it's, Screw job had never happened. We never would have seen that character of Vince McMahon. There was so many dominoes that fell after that. It was like the, it was like the Spawn, like the attitude era was launched after that. Yes. You know, and the Mr. McMahon character. Yeah. It was, it was a really, you know, again, it wasn't like I would, I would, if I could turn back the hands of time, I would never have wanted that to happen, Brett. But it did. Were you watching that live? Yes. Yeah. Wow. And I was just wondering, like, what everybody else was wondering. Like,

this is crazy. This is chaotic. Like, I remember. I remember my dad coming home and just being so sad. And so, like, everybody was just like, we don't know what to do. And, like, you know, everybody wanted to take Brett's side, but they're like, well, like, we don't know where our careers stand. And it's just, you know, it's very, it was very hard. But I don't think anything for our family was as hard as Owen's death, for sure. What do you think's been the highlight of your career? We've talked a lot about it and a lot of tough times in your career.

It's been the best moment. That's hard to narrow it down. It's really, really, really hard to narrow that down. I think one of the best moments of my career, I mean, it's just so hard. I'm just trying to think, I mean, I go back to the match with Naomi at SummerSlam. It was the night that I finally felt like I deserved to be a champion. Yeah.

Like, I finally let myself enjoy it. I finally let myself enjoy all the hard work. I was like, you do deserve it. Fucking enjoy this. Stop worrying about pleasing people. Stop worrying about what everybody else wants from you. Sit in this moment, enjoy it, hold the title up over your head, and know that you work your ass off for it.

And Naomi and I just had this magical chemistry together where like it was just everything clicked. And we were very close friends in our everyday lives. But like it was just like the energy was just through the roof. It was like, it's funny because we were in Barclays, and Barclays is where we spread my dad's ashes outside of Barclays. And New York City was my dad's favorite place to wrestle. My dad loved New York. It was hands down his favorite place to wrestle.

So I won the title in New York City where we would end up spreading my dad's ashes. It is favorite city in the world to wrestle. And by the way, that city. is where my grandparents met for the very first time. Wow. So my Stu and Helen met in New York City, and my grandfather was discovered by Tutsmont. And Tutsmont is like the granddaddy of professional wrestling.

My grandparents were introduced by a wrestler named Paul Bosch. And it all happened in New York. And I won my title. I won the women's championship in New York. It was like everything was full circle in New York, New York, New York. And my dad got inducted into the Hall of Fame in New York. in New York City. That's beautiful.

So New York is like iconic for me. You have a chapter in the book called Vince's Big Idea. Oof. His big idea was giving you a farting gimmick. What was your reaction when you get pitched this? I remember, hold on me, let me just make sure I have enough time to tell the story. Okay, perfect. Okay, I won't go on.

I remember with that idea when the writer came out of, the production meeting. He pulled me aside. And he was like, listen, this is, it's in the book, but he made it very clear. This was not his idea. And I remember being like, what's the idea? I thought, I was so excited because earlier in the day, it was like, hey, this writer wants to, this head writer wants to talk to you after the, after the production meeting, they have something they want to talk to you about creatively. I remember being like, like, like, I had butterflies in my stomach because I was like, finally, I'm going to like get this, like, cool idea. Like, they're going to have a plan for me, and this is going to be what I need.

This is going to be what's going to finally, like, give me my, like, turning point. And, you know, being a good girl is paid off. And, like, you've been helping everybody, Natty, but this is, like, your time now. And he came out of the production meeting, and he just kept saying over and over and over again, this is not my idea, but this is Vince's idea and he really loves this idea. Well, the thing with Vince is that he liked to do things that were, it was a lot about entertainment. And he wanted to do something. I think he saw me as being kind of a serious wrestling.

And so he's like, let's do something that's going to make Natty entertaining. And it was this character, you know, eventually what I'm getting to is this Natty Nide Fart character. And when the writer was... Did you come up with that? No, they didn't. Natty Nide Fart? Yes. So that was what the idea was for me to morph into Natalia Nidefart.

And I remember when the writer was explaining it to me, he's like, you know, what you're going to do is you're going to be passing gas. And it's going to lead to this big baby face moment where you have this crazy flatger. but you're going to, you know, you're going to over, like, it's going to lead to a big baby face moment. And you think about, like, think about Kurt Engel. He's an Olympic gold medalist, but he's done goofy stuff. Yeah. Yeah, he owned it. The Rock did goofy stuff.

Tristratus did goofy stuff. Like, I wasn't like, I didn't think anybody was trying to, like, bury me. I think it was just an outlandish, outrageous, cooky, crazy, wacky idea. But I was like, I don't want to fart. Like, I just don't want to do that. Like, part of me was like, I, but. But. In true Natalia form, I smiled.

I said, of course, I'll do it. Not only will I do it, I'm going to make this amazing. I'm going to own it. I'm going to show Vince that I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be difficult. I'm not going to be difficult like my dad. I'm going to go out there and I'm going to make it great. I'm going to do exactly what he wants. I'm going to be a professional.

Could you hear the farting sound effects? Like someone's playing it off camera? Yeah, they would play it like off of like an audio or, or recorder. They'd play like noises and stuff like that. We did it for about six weeks of pre-tapes. Vince was the thing with Vince and that whole thing was that he was so helpful. He was, he was, I could see that it was like, you know, for him to work with talent on pre-tapes and to be like, because Vince, when he, when I first started in WWE, he was extremely, he was in the rehearsals. He was in this. He was helping, he was very, very hands-on. He was a workaholic. He loved being

involved in everything. And he was super hands-on with like making sure everything was lit right. And this is, you know, so he was very helpful with it. I was like, wow, this is so cool. Vince, like, this is his baby. He's really like getting involved. I think he initially cared about it. But, but I think feedback from people that were watching the product and stuff, they didn't like it. Fans. Yeah, fans didn't like it. Fans, fans said this isn't good. And so they stopped. I think enough people had spoken up and said, this isn't like the fans don't like this. And so one of the writers came up to me again and was like, hey, we're not going to do the Natty Nidefart character.

There's been a lot of negative like, you know, feedback about it from fans and stuff like that. We're just going to like drop it. And I go, you know what? In my mind, I was like, I'm so happy that I agreed to that. Because now I'm going to ask for an idea that I want to do. And again, I write about it. You give me a little.

I'll give you a little. Yeah. And I was like, I didn't have to tell Vince or the writers or anybody know. the fans did it for me. They protected me. And I was able to ask Vince to, I pitched another idea. And he, that's the thing about Vince is that he, I would go to him very selectively about ideas that I would have creatively. And he would listen. He always listened. He always made time for me. Always. Always. There was never a moment where I knocked on his door and he said, like, I could, I could say, Vince, I want to like run an idea by you. That was like, like, this guy is a, you know, he's, he's the, boss. He's, he, he, I mean, sometimes it would take a minute to get to him, but he would, he would listen to the ideas. He didn't like a lot of my ideas, but he did listen.

How did you figure out you could do a double sharpshooter? Triple H. He came up with it. Triple H came up with a double sharpshooter. I was going over a rehearsal with Michelle and Layla, and I loved, I loved my stuff with Michelle and Leila. I think sometimes Michelle, you know, she gets pigeonholed a little bit because people are like, you know, she's taker's wife and she's getting everything because of taker. well listen, if you're taker's wife or your taker's girlfriend, of course you're going to be, you know, like, I think, I think at the end of the day, like, I think Vince or whomever's making decisions, they're not going to make, you know, they're, but she, what my point is is that she worked very hard. She worked very, very hard, especially, especially in that tables match to make that match great. She went above and beyond a lot of times in our storylines to be like, how can we make this fun? How can we make this exciting? How can we make this entertaining? How can we make this entertaining? And so she was so giving.

So sometimes I do wish people would give her a little bit more credit because she was somebody that, like, helped me a lot when I was just getting started. But Hunter saw me putting Michelle in a sharpshooter. We were going through our rehearsal. And he goes, hey, come here. He goes, why don't you put them both in a sharpshooter at the same time? He got in the ring and did it, showed us how to do it.

And he was like, cross-shirt. I was like, he had this great idea. And T.J's like, I don't think anybody's ever done it. double sharpshooter before, but it was Triple H. He was like, why don't you, it would be more entertaining for, and so he, it was his idea for the, for the double sharpshooter, but Michelle was on board, Leila was on board. And I mean, it was such a fun match. I loved working with those girls. And I loved, it was when I was the champion. So it was, it's very cool. I'm happy that we got to do that. A lot of people talk about the heart family tree, but I don't know if they know where all of the

branches go here. So if you, if you would indulge me here, the heart family tree begins with Stu, right? Yes. Without Stu, none of this happens. So, so it starts with Stu and then Stu had 12 children. 12. Stu had eight sons and he had four daughters. His eight sons all were involved in wrestling. They were either wrestlers or referees or, you know, they sold programs, or whatever. He had four daughters that all married wrestlers. So Davey Boy Smith married Stu's daughter, Diana. My dad, Jim Knighthart, married Stu's daughter, Ellie. And what are the odds that half of his last name is already hard? Coincidence. Just coincidence. My dad was just coincidentally had Knighthart as his last name. And then Owen became a wrestler. And my uncle Bruce became a wrestler.

My uncle Keith was a wrestler. My uncle Wayne was a referee. My uncle Ross did the booking. Your uncle Brett? My uncle Brett, of course, was one of the greatest wrestlers that ever lived. My grandfather was the promoter. And so Dynamite Kid married, so Brett's wife, ex-wife, but Brett's wife at the time, her name was Julie. Her sister married Dynamite Kid, Michelle.

So Dynamite, Davie, my dad, Owen, Brett, Stu, and then my cousin Harry. became a wrestler. My cousin Ted was a wrestler. And then T.J., of course, married into the heart. So many wrestlers. So a lot of uncles and then cousins, right? Like, Teddy and Harry are your cousins? Yes. Yep. Teddy and Harry are my cousins. So, yeah, it's, it's a big, big, big family. Like at the start of Cody's entrance theme, when it says wrestling has more than one royal family, I think a lot about like your family, the McMahon family, Cody's family, the Guerrera. Like there's so many, obviously the Uso's and that family there, there's so many massive legacies like that.

There's so many. And Cody is actually somebody too that is an inspiration to me because he took a chance on himself. And I think about him a lot. And I said to TJ when Cody came back to WWE and he just took off and like everybody was, you know, he started doing the best work of his career. I'm like, I admire Cody so much for the courage that he had to say, I have to step away and like, find him.

myself again. Cody is a huge, huge inspiration for me in that way where sometimes you got to take a step back to grow. And he, he is proof of that. And he's such a good person. He really, really is. Always so good to see you, Natty. I know, Chris, thank you so much. You really, you were always like my favorite to talk to. You're so, you are so good at what you do. You are so good at what you do and you never stopped working towards your dreams. It's funny. It was six weeks ago, six years ago this week that I quit my TV job and battle myself. That's amazing. And here we are now.

And you saw The Rock this week and you, you're interviewing the biggest people in the world. That's a pretty mind-blowing thing. Like, I was such a huge rock fan as a kid. Like, Rock was my guy. I would walk down the halls of my high school, Natty, and ask people questions just so I could shout, it doesn't matter what you think. And then fast forward all these years later and Rock saw me. And he goes, hey, Chris, how's your kid?

Because the last time I saw him, we were about to have my daughter Logan. He said, oh, we've got two of them now. He's like, two! And he's such a, he's so personable. Yeah. He's so personable. And I am excited about seeing his movie. I'm going to go see it with T.J.

When TV. It's fantastic. I've seen it twice now. Oh, I'm hearing, people are saying he's going to win an Oscar. I don't know what the competition's going to be, but I don't see how he wouldn't get nominated at least. I mean, I think, I would love it. I would love it.

It would be so, it would be fucking amazing if you, but fingers crossed. But I'm so happy that you were able to come over. Thank you for inviting us into your beautiful home. You're so welcome. I will help you get the cat for off of you before you leave. I haven't seen, I've only seen one cat. There's six more of them.

There's hiding. I have, of course, one last question as we wrap this up. What are three things you're grateful for today right now? I am so grateful for my health. I wake up every single day pain free. I feel so good. so good and I've wrestled so much and I my body feels knock on wood incredible my brain I'm thankful for my brain because I feel especially after knowing stuff that my dad had gone through in his life and that

something he was silently like battling his whole adult life I'm so grateful that I wake up every day with a clear head and have clear thoughts and have clear goals and have I'm allowed to feel happy when I'm happy. I'm allowed to feel sad when I'm sad. I'm allowed to have brand new hopes and dreams and new stuff to work towards. And the third thing I'm grateful for today, I'm so grateful that the people that are reading my book, I'm so grateful that they have taken the time to read the book and then it's affecting them in the way that it's affecting where they are like, it is impacting them. Because when I wrote, when I finished the book, I really, I want to, it to be a handbook for people about how to get through life. It's a, it's a big, big tool for

survival, not just in wrestling, but in life. And like, you know, oh, we will wrap this up. But Bianca said to me after she finished reading it, she goes, God, I wish I would have read this book, like, when I was first starting out wrestling. She's like, I could have used this information. She's like, I really needed this. I needed this. I needed this. I needed this book. And so I want people to read it and I want them to find, they're going to grow so much reading it. And I'm grateful that I can be able to do this, that I'm able to write this story to be able to pass it on and that people are going to grow from it. I love that. Again, congratulations from the book. Thank you. It's so good to see you. So good to see you too.

Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Ticket manage you, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef?

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