Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Paul London On Brock Lesnar Debut Match, Making Vince McMahon ANGRY, Royal Rumble Elimination, John Cena

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Paul London (@LondonFU) is a professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss his memorable WWE debut segment with Vince McMahon and match with Brock Lesnar, having one of the best Royal Rumble eliminations in WWE history, facing a young John Cena on an episode of Velocity, getting in trouble for smiling at Vince McMahon, and more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 20% off sitewide! CAR GURUS: Buy or sell your next car today with Car Gurus: https://cargurus.com PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv AMERICAN FINANCING: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.196% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-721-3300 for details about credit costs and terms or visit https://Americanfinancing.net/Chris SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Flee! May I ask why your coffee says your name is Cole? Yeah, it's my K-Fib coffee name. It's another gimmick. It's your coffee gimmick? I mean, I guess it is. Cole, the coffee man? Literally every Starbucks I go to or coffee bean.

It originated, yeah, it originated at a Starbucks, I believe, in Santa Monica or Bramwood or something. Here's the thing. During the pandemic, a lot of people don't know this, but I was a delivery driver. I've done over 7,000 deliveries for DoorDash. Did anyone recognize you?

Sometimes. Paul Lund? Yeah. I was like, no, I get that all the time. I got disbanded by DoorDash, but that's a whole other story. So, but star ratings, right? So I was in my car a lot.

I mean, I was in my car before they instituted that you can't work more than 12 hours a day, you know. And so when that happened, I was like, how dare they tell me I can't work more than 12 hours? You know, like, you get into this weird addiction of just like you spend more time in the car. I would call it my coffin on wheels, you know, because it was just like a matter of time. So anyways, I would drink a ton of coffee. I was going to Starbucks all the time. so at times I can I tend to mumble

you know you're tired whatever and so I would say my name and in more often than not it was always coal here you go Cole like they heard coal instead of Paul so I just accepted it and then from then on out it was just like I'm Cole all my Starbucks app

it says hello Cole like everything's coal and then I posted something like that on Twitter or whatever and coffee bean reposted in there like we like Cole has a great ring to it or someone's like okay coffee bean points for you you know and uh don't you feel like Starbucks

gets people's names wrong intentionally on the cup so that people then take a photo of the cup good like well they don't I don't think they pass out a spelling test when people apply there but if you're spelling something like Chris like

most people spell it CHR IS but they don't ask. It's just like, oh, make our own version of it. I think that's great. I think it's clever. I think it's creative.

It gives people something to notice. It tests their, you know, their awareness, you know? What's the Brett Hart one? Brett Hart has famously, like, got a...

Three T's or two T's in the end? No, it's not even Brett. It's like, it's like they famously spelled his name wrong. Because I feel like they do that in purpose. Well, I will say, Bread. B-R-E-D.

Was it really? Bread. Bread. Bread. Bread. Bread. What are you? That? Bread.

Bread. Bread. Bread. Well, I can't say coal has 100% not been misspelled. How you got to spell coal wrong? You'd be surprised. Right. I mean, C-O-L-L-L-E.

K-O-L-E. That's not bad. That's not bad. That's not bad. It's pretty bad. But, yeah. Cole is the way it is. So then now when I go to,

some of my regular locations. Like, hey Cole. Hey, Cole. Because usually I ask for the biggest iced... It's large. Yep. And that'll be the first of probably two or three today. Oh, my gosh.

If that's 30 ounces, I might get like 90 ounces of coal brew in a day. But how much ice is in there? That's a lot of ice. And I ask for an extra cup of ice, usually. So you're really... That's probably just a half full. But like if you drink it without ice, it sucks. I mean, it's a totally different drink without ice.

You know, that's why I can't do that nitro. all that hipster kind of cough. It's like, what are you doing? The foam on top, the tap. Like, oh, dude. I'm so glad we finally connected because Killer Cross was like, you guys live like 10 minutes from each other.

And he connected us on a group chat. And I'm like, no way. Yeah. How do we live this close to each other? I know. I've never met. You probably shop at the fancier grocery stores. I don't know about that.

No, just kidding. What's even fancy? Gelsons? There's no Gelsons down there. Way too fancy. Yeah, there's no Gelsons down there. Vons, Ralph's. Pavilions is gone, right? They don't have... They're in the fancy areas. That would be a fancier one. Grocery bargain outlet, grocery... No, there are some of the grocery stores here where you can walk and people don't have shirts on.

We go to Trader Joe's a lot. Okay. They think they make you wear shirts and Trader Joe's. When my wife goes, we're going to Sprouts. I'm like, ooh. Sprouts is great. I better put on some clothes-toed shoes. Sproutes is great. And I already feel like I've said too much. No, seriously.

We named every grocery store in the neighborhood. Well, there's a grocery outlet. Yeah, a grocery outlet, bargain mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes me change the channel every time. But I do like them. But at Sprouts, their deli is the spot to go for sandwiches. I'm even kidding you.

And I'm gluten intolerance, so they offer a gluten-few. bread, which they don't charge me extra for. And the sandwiches are like $5.99, $6.99. They pack it. So it's, you heard it from me. You're welcome. Everyone has an L.A. story.

Is it acting that brought you to California? Yeah, absolutely. If it wasn't for acting, I would have, I would have spit it out pretty quickly. And people are like, you know, you can do acting back in Austin. You can do acting.

Go to Atlanta. Go to New York. I don't want to go to those cities. I love my hometown of Austin, but the amount of auditions that I get in a week might double what I would get in a month there. Aren't they all self-tapes now, though? They are, but, you know, so much stuff also can be local hire.

Why don't you just have an address here? It's true. You could live in your hometown. Also, my brother lives here and his wife and, you know, their one-year-old. And so that's nice. Uncle Cole needs to be here. Yeah, you know what I mean? I got to teach this girl I had to drink coffee at a young age.

So, you know, but I think my time is running smoothly thin. We'll see. I don't know. You're right. It is easier to live elsewhere. but... I feel like you used to have to live here. I agree.

Because it used to be like, you've got an audition in the Valley at 1030, and then in Hollywood at 1115, and then Brentwood at 1230. Oh, I miss those in-person auditions so much. And that's the way it used to be. I know. And then you would show up

and you'd be in a line of a bunch of people that look a lot like you. Yeah. Well, I think when the business really opened itself up in a way to where it's, you know, spread its arms wide for or maybe something else for influencers and TikTokers and all this other nonsense that,

you know, they don't give too fucks about acting. They just care about being famous or popular, you know. So when they, you know, so now I'm competing with that where it's, you know, what are your TikTok numbers? Like, I don't have one, you know. What are your number? You know, I don't, social media doesn't run my life. if anything, that's one of the main things

that is really put the wrestling business in the state that it's in now. You know, which... Do you say that as a positive or a negative? No, it says a negative. You know, without dispelling my age, which is pretty easy to find online. I had this acting teacher watch.

She was like, never put your age online. You know, which I think is a bigger deal for females than males, but, you know, she was just adamant about that. she was great teacher too in Santa Monica. Shout out to Susan Giosa. Yeah, but, you know, that is a fortunate thing. Men age differently, I guess, for camera where it used to be.

But either which way, I'm competing with all these other people now. And so, yeah, it's opened up where you can literally live anywhere. Yeah. Right, as long as your numbers are good or as long as you're... And that's similar to the wrestling business. Yeah. You know, it's very similar. If you're drawing attention and you're bringing eyes to a product,

then it doesn't matter if you can tie your shoes or do a role or, you know, anything of that nature that even resembles wrestling. We'll find a way to make you something and we can make money off of you. You had a break from wrestling, like 2018 to like 2021. Yeah. What was what was going on then? I, you know, I think I got a little burnt out on it. I started to see where, you know, I think the social media thing was a part of it, too.

I was brought in by all territory legend types, you know. The first trainer I ever met that was of name would have been exotic Adrian Street. Didn't teach me a damn thing and ripped me off. And, you know, I was 16 and basically stole our money and used it on eye surgery and then tried to sell us paintings of like naked Native Americans with wolves in front of their dicks and stuff. It was ridiculous. Yeah. It was ridiculous.

That story took a left turn. Yeah. Oh, it takes all sorts of all sorts of bendy turns. But that was a lesson looking back on it was like, well, this could have been, you know, a situation where I said, but this is ridiculous. Screw this crap. You could have said, what kind of industry is this? It's bullshit, right?

And, uh, but I didn't. And, and I stuck it out because as I was growing up, it was constant. You're never going to, are you kidding me? You're never going to make it? Because it was still the land of the giants, you know? So that's why now the standards have been removed. The standards have been removed. I mean, when I was coming in and I feel like,

back in my day, I just caught myself. I would have been looked at like, where's your ticket? You know what I mean? and the first person that really kind of beat the tarot to me was Polish power Ivan Putzky. And so I had gone through this whole quest to try and get trained, went to like, I picked all the colleges that I applied to, they were all outside of Texas because I was destined to get out there. But I picked them all based on if there was a wrestling school with a credible trainer nearby them. My father didn't know that, but that was my plan. So it saw me go up to Pittsburgh where I was going to train with Shane Douglas and Dominic Danucci.

Spoke to Shane Douglas on the phone. He left me a voicemail. He was like, this is Troy Martin. I was like, oh, my God, he used his real name. This is real. It's really happening. And I got up there. I went to Duquesne.

But he tore his bicep. So they were like, training's off. You know, I was like, what am I doing up here? I have to go to class. So it's the only time of my life ever made the dean's list. You were forced to go to glass. Yeah, I was. I was.

But I found local shows. This is the only time I ever went to an ECW show, like the real ECW. And I had bought this friend of mine a T-shirt, an FBI t-shirt, because he was kind of interesting, but not so hardcore. He was like, oh, he'll like the goofy Italian tag team. I'll buy him this shirt. And I got a ticket that was aisle right at the guardrail on the entrance. And so at the end of New Jack's match, he's.

he's just bleeding like crazy, right? I'm like, yeah, yeah, he grabs my shirt. He wipes his face with it. He's like, here you go. He gives it back to me. I'm like, oh, oh, right? He's like all contaminated. And I still gave it to my friend with all the blood and stuff on it.

I mean, it dried by that time. And he said his mom made him throw it away because it was like creating a nest of like insects or something on it. But it was really cool to see the legit ECW. show. But I love Pittsburgh, but my dream and everything was wrestling based. So then I transferred to Memphis because I thought wrestlers grew off of trees. And that was in a down period in Memphis. This was probably at the very beginning of 2000. And I was in Memphis, which was a very eye-opening experience for me because I felt like a minority for the first time of my life,

you know, um, when I transferred, I got this notice of like your, your roommate, here's your info and stuff like that. His name was detron. And I,

I had never seen that name before, right? I mean, I grew up in, you know, Austin Westlake, which is predominantly white neighborhoods. You know,

it's, it's a white community. Drew Brees went to my high school. And, you know, lots of great athletes went to my high school. and actresses and artists and stuff like that. But it's predominantly white.

But we had quite a few black students as well. And they were always like, everyone wanted to be their friends. Right? All the, they were like, everyone wanted to be the friends of the black kids. And they were all cool and everything. But, you know, where was I going with this? When you're in Memphis now. Yeah, so I was in Memphis and I got this thing.

And it was like, Detron. And I thought I was like, am I rooming with like a transformer? Like, what is this? And he was the coolest guy. He was the coolest guy. We played basketball all the time, right? More than going to class. Took me to his high school.

Like, we watched some of his high school games because he was fresh out of high school. He was a young kid. But it wasn't working. And I dropped out, got on a Greyhound bus. 12 hours later, I'm back home in Austin. The very next day, my friend calls me, the friend that I got that bloody t-shirt for me, he's like, turn on the news. I'm like, well, and Ivan Putsky had opened a wrestling school right there in Austin.

So I like did this weird loop-de-loop back, came back to where I originally started. And I was like, I've heard of Ivan Putsky. Hell yeah, you know what I mean? I was a big Scott Putsky fan when he was in the Cruzeweight Division for a little bit. And I think he blew out his knee in a match with like Brian Christopher. And that kind of ended his WWF run.

And then he showed up at WCW dressed kind of like a pirate or something. I didn't know what that was. But it was cool. But I was always a Scott Putsky fan. So he was training as well. And he helped me so much. I mean, the way I take turnbuckles, that's all Scott Putzky, the way he taught me that. And I teach that to kids as well because it'll help save their backs.

I'm not going to give it away here. You have to pay for the seminars. But or come to my training academy and better. But, you know, I had heard I had bought this. Where's your training academy? Well, it's in Orange County. How can people find it? The greater Los Alamitos area.

Um, you can find it on Instagram, K FAPE underscore Academy. Uh, if you see a logo that's an armadillo, that's it. Because that's my addition to Orange County is an armadillo. What does the armadillo have to do with? Well, I'm from Texas. Okay. And because, you know, an armadillo would, you know, be able to protect its back with the, you know, I think only the nine band armadillo can go into a ball.

You know, I don't know if you've ever seen that. Never in person. Oh, my God. I've seen videos of it. where they bunch up the leaves and it's hopping. Armadillos are fascinating, fascinating creatures. As are most creatures in the world. I still would love to take you to the park

to introduce you to my squirrel friends. Do they have names? Yeah, they do. Well, yeah, one's been missing for a little bit. I'm constantly going back and trying to... There's a lot of coyotes in the area. There are. There are a lot of hawks.

Yes. And a lot of bad people. They would want to hurt a squirrel? Yeah, there are a lot of bad people who can't read. You know, they can't read it very clearly. It will say, leave, keep your dog on a leash. And I'll be, you know, mingling with my friends feeding them. Which one's missing?

What's his name? His name's Ethan. Ethan. Yeah, well, he's missing an eye. He's kind of the godfather of the park because everyone respects him. They fear. But he's very wise. And I knew him before he lost his eye.

But I named him after Ethan Hunt from Mission Impossible because he was the first scroll to climb and then hang completely upside down to take a walnut. So I was like, oh, my gosh, fascinating. And then it's something that's, they all do that. super easy for them to do that. But they're, I think at times I picked the wrong career because that for me is the ultimate therapy

is interacting with wildlife. What career should you have picked? Like squirrel master. You could have been like Steve Irwin or something. I am a huge steward. Steve or a lot, a fan. I think his son is awesome. I think his son won Dancing with the Stars or something, didn't he?

Oh, I think, yeah. Yeah. His daughter seems wonderful, too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I follow a ton of, you know, animal rehabilitators. Like, there's one in particular, Josh Neal, who I think is incredible. But, yeah, I think just working with animals. the drawback is that you have to see them at some point suffering.

And that's, that's, that's, that's pretty unbearable. But you, you, you, you stay focused on the task and you get through it. You know, like I just cut two hooks out of a bird two days ago that had fishing line all around its wing and a weight hooked to its back. And, you know, that's, that's just one example. was a real eye-opener for me because, you know, it had the barb and had, you know, yanking doing the Lord's work. Wow, it's, I'm not alone.

But it's, um, I love helping, especially animals. Um, I don't know. I, I'm very fortunate with the upbringing that I had. I'm extremely fortunate. Um, I never had to worry about a meal or a roof over my head when I was young. My parents still love me. So I'm extremely grateful for that. But we were never flaunters, you know, we were never showy.

And my father, he has, well, I'm sure he found it or saw it somewhere. But he always, you know, your father always has like these quotes that stay with you. And he would always say, you know, money is a wonderful master. Or it's a wonderful servant, but a horrible master. I just botched that. Yeah, money is a wonderful servant and a horrible master. And so, you know, I lost my brother when I was 16, my oldest brother, and he was 19. And that shifted my life in a way where you completely start viewing things differently than your peers.

You know, not that I would ever, you know, you got to go through some major trauma to really see, life for what it is. Like I, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Well, there are a few people. But, you know, that, that changed my entire life. In a way, it allowed me the focus to make the wrestling thing happen. Because at that time, without that obsession and hyper-focus, wouldn't happen. If you were jaded to wrestling in that period when you weren't doing it, What brought you back? Amazon, no. What?

Well, okay, so what happened was I was going to return, I believe, in 2018, I was going to dip both feet back in the water with Ring of Honor when they were in Vegas. and if I'm not mistaken, I want to see my buddy Jay Lethal was setting that up and this was the last show they had when they canceled it because of the pandemic and then like it's sort of getting crazy

and then like, you know, people were looting and all this. So we're in 2020 now. Was that when that happened? Pandemic was March 2020 is when it kicked off. When was that last Ring of Honor show that they had to cancel? I guess it would have, so that would have been probably, yeah, I guess around 2020.

I'm getting my dates all mixed up. So that got canceled. Ring of Honor still paid me, which was really cool. But then it just stayed, you know, nobody knew what was going on. And I was still kind of burnt out. I was doing the work delivering and doing all this bullshit, you know, jobs that you hate, but you have, like, kind of freedom. to do whatever you want to do.

And I like putting myself in situations where people don't know everything about me. That's why social media is such a silly tool. Because for me, it is just that. It's a tool to promote things. That's it. Right? For the most part, it's an edited illusion, right?

Everyone living their best lives. And like, we're so happy and all this stuff. And I'm not saying that doesn't happen. happen. But it, I mean, it's basically a Photoshopped life, you know, it's an edited life. And so many people put their entire, you know, they put all their chips in on it. And it ruins things. And when I talked about it ruining, not ruining, but hurting the wrestling business, I don't know what came first, but, you know, it might have been the speaking out thing when everyone was just, you know, there was cancellations all over the place,

and a lot of those were warranted, but I think it put a net of fear over everybody, right? And so it did allow voices to be heard that should have been heard in the first place, but it also didn't just open the doors. It just took the doors off the hinges. So not anybody can be heard. a wrestler. Who isn't a wrestler now? I mean, you just stumble upon just whoever. It's like,

pro wrestler, I do their grabs. It's like, shut the fuck up. What are you talking about? You know, so to allow these people to play, the business has to compromise itself and look shittier and phonier, more cooperative, more planned, more rehearsed. And it's just unwatchable. It gets to where I can't watch anything on TV. So you're not watching wrestling now? No. I will watch it if something, if I can remember.

I mean, I think there's wrestling on every day. I don't own a TV. There's a TV where I live, but I haven't owned a TV in probably 15 years. I've never. streamed anything. I've borrowed people's passwords to stream stuff, but I've never

had a subscription to anything. I love physical media. You know, I will drive an hour plus to go to a store that has physical media. By the way, there's this vinegar syndrome store in Pittsburgh. Oh my God.

It's one of four. But we need a vinegar syndrome store out here in Los Angeles. What is vinegar syndrome? They put out they remaster old films, whether it's grind house, horror films. I mean, it's extremely genre-driven stuff,

but they'll put out these box sets or these special editions that just are, you know, drowning in special features, interviews, you know, introspectives, just all this stuff. And so, yeah, it was very, very cool. I didn't have a chance to really go in the store

because it was like a blizzard going on and I was walking to the show from my hotel. And I was already late. So, but I will be back. But I love physical media. But getting back to the social media thing. So now with all these, the business is more full of what I would like to think, you know, casuals. And I make the joke that the business is full of gremlins, less mogwise.

There's really like few mogwis, but there's so many gremlins, you know, and they just, they multiply like crazy, right? Whether it's somebody's girlfriend. boyfriend, partner, whatever, and they see their significant how they're doing

and they're like, I don't want to do it and then they're doing all their moves and it is, but again, the work itself gets compromised

to allow everyone to play. And I think there's a place for that, but that's not the pro wrestling that I was taught.

That's not the pro wrestling that I'm attracted to. That's not the pro wrestling that tastes good to me. and you know this thing is it's silly as it is already there's certainly no sense in pissing on it and admitting it and then getting on social media and being well this is how it's done like i'm fine

you know the people who say that kfab is dead they're basically just admitting to me what i mean is i lack all skills that have to do with commitment in order to make this work. I don't have the patience. I don't have the drive. I don't have the heart. I don't even care to make this magical. You know what I mean?

I would way rather have all these people like my page, buy my subscribes. Subscribe to me. Only fan is okay, $2 a month. That means it's really valuable if it's $2 a month. That's more important. Likes and subscriptions, that's the currency. I don't think K-Fabe is dead. I think it's evolved a lot.

I think that when people say K-Fab's dead, they mean like, if you're a good guy and I'm a bad guy, we can't be seen, like, in an airport. Why not? Right? Well, you tell me. Why not? Yeah.

I mean... I think K-Fabe has evolved now of, like, Seth Rollins did it perfectly with this injury where, like, people legitimately thought he was injured. And then he threw the crutches away, cashed in money in the bank. And it was like, oh, my gosh, we all thought he was legit injured. And he worked everybody. Was he, did TMZ show pictures of him getting out of the car?

Oh, he was like spending weeks of his life on crutches. That's admirable. Yeah. I still don't like his voice, but that's admirable. He don't like his voice. So nasally, how can you take a guy like that serious? South Orleans is wonderful. He's great.

He is extremely talented. Yeah. But it's, you know, I don't know. Oh, but I get you. I don't know. Maybe that's just me. I don't know. I don't know anything.

Going back to what you were saying earlier, if when you were breaking into wrestling, if it was the land of the giants, what got you on WWE's radar? Selling. Selling and being a generous worker. I credit Dory Fung Jr. for giving me the opportunity

to even get to WWF at the time. That's the first time I had to try it, was for WWF. I was able to be in the WCHW locker room because of Dory Funk Jr. I was a plant in the crowd on the last WVW. B.CWP.W. Paperview ever greed where I'm in the crowd, wearing my funk and conservatory t-shirt.

And we had, they had like these plastic pie plates or something. And so it's DDP and Steiner. And both super cool. And Steiner, you know, I'm like cheering and Steiner's beating up DDP in the entrance way. And I'm right at the corner. And Snyder comes over to me and he like pulls my pie plate thing away. And he pie faces me. And he's like, sit down, you white trash. And it's still like a highlight of my career to be called White Trash by Scott Steiner. And then something happens and then DDP turns it around and then I get another pie plate and he smashes it. I'm like, yeah. And then I was a security guard for a contract signing.

I want to say between Booker T and Scott Steiner on that thunder. It was maybe the last thunder or the second to the last thunder ever. But anyway, so Dory had set up these tryouts for. Adam Windsor, who was his kind of project franchise guy, which was a whole other kind of situation, rest in peace, Adam Windsor. But he was a kid from England who weighed about 170 and his parents basically funded Bang TV in order for his kid to get signed because that's what they've guarantee. We'll get your kid signed, you know what I mean? Just fund our TV show. And so that went. not as planned.

I don't even know if that show it still exists, but Dory's a fabulous trainer. He's incredible. But he got this kid a tryout on house shows, and I was the third last guy. So that's what put me on the radar initially. My first tryout was at a WWF house show

in Fort Myers, Florida. Who'd you work? Adam Windsor. He had a look all three nights against a different guy from the camp. And so I was able to see what each guy did that got massive critiques, you know, like a guy doing a spear on the same show as I think Rhino. Some guy was like lathered up in like hot stuff or something.

Burn somebody's eye. Yeah, just ridiculous. Only in wrestling. Seriously. But I came to the back and I want to say Pedro Morales was there at the time as an agent and

Jack Lanzum. Everyone was super complimentary. Long story short, I ended up getting in touch with Kevin Kelly, my first real look that they were like, oh, okay, was against Perry Saturn in Austin for a show called Jacked Metal back in the day. It was still WWF. And Perry gave me a ton. But the thing was, I was brought in by big tough guys, right? So like Ivan Putsky, Dory Funk Jr., even Terry Funk, you know, took a few licks and stuff. and even Rudy Boy Gonzalez is a big guy, you know, he's like a, like a baked potato lifted weights. And so my thing was selling, selling.

You have no story if there's no selling. It's so interesting you say that because Stone Cold was on the show to start the year. And I said, what's the one piece of advice you have for an up-and-coming wrestler? And he goes, sell. It's true. Sell. What is it book without words? It's an empty, it's a blank journal.

The selling is writing the words to the sentence that creates the story. I mean, the selling is the gasoline that makes the cargo. Because otherwise, it's just phony bullshit. You might see on like Wednesday nights. You know what I mean? So it's a selling. We're all marks. Just there's various shades of markism, right?

There's those hardcore marks that are like, well, I know what kind of underwear Chris Van Fleet wears. I saw it. And so you have those, I know where he lives. That's terrible. They call you and they're like, be, you know, it's like that scene in happiness with Philip Seymour Hoffman. Sticks your picture to the wall.

So that's one kind of mark. That's one kind of mark. Yeah. Believe me, I deal with those. and then on the spectrum closer to us, we wouldn't be here talking right now if we weren't Marx. We want to believe something. We want to taste the magic that really only pro wrestling can provide.

But that can only really be done when you really want this for the right reasons. When you've been touched and you've been impacted and you've been inspired. and you've been inspired by that. And you're like, I want to do that. You know, I want to be a professional liar. I want to be a professional person who fools people all the time. Like, that is, it's the sleight of hand.

I didn't mean it's so much on a professional liar. But in a way, I mean, you're putting on an illusion. We're illusionists. We're one-take stunt fighters. We're one, you know, everything is one take. And it's similar to a magician. you're asking the audience to leave believing something. You would hope that they would believe it.

Yeah. What magician is going to finish their show and be like, stick around for 15 minutes and I'll show you how this is done. Of course people would stick around. Yeah. But then they've not returned. They've seen it.

Yeah. They know how it's done. It has no show. Intrig is gone. Yeah. Intrig is gone. So commit to creating intrigue. Don't commit to creating, you know,

it might be drama. But commit to that. The thing is, I can teach anyone how to do this. It's like Teddy Hart with cats or something. You know, with enough time, I could teach anybody how to do this if they can walk and, you know, they're capable and fairly athletic. What most don't seem to ever really get is why. Why and when to do it. The United States Soccer Federation

present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it.

Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You had an early match with John Cena on Velocity? Loved it. Is it true he got in trouble for letting you get in too much offense? Yeah.

Yeah. That was in Dallas, Texas when he had B-squared, uh, ringside, super cool guy. John's amazing, by the way. I think he's the Mick Jagger of pro wrestling. Um, and, he was just super cool. Mind you,

I went out to UPW in California after he had left. So I was very familiar with him. I knew he was the prototype and I knew and I had watched that documentary I think on like Discovery Channel or something like that. And that's how I found out about UPW

and that's what led me out to California. But they had already gotten their developmental deal taken away from them, but they didn't tell me that before I moved out of here. And then they told me that they still had it. I moved out here. And I was like, what the fuck? We said,

uh, So, but John was amazing. And he, oh, the funny thing with John is, so we went out to the ring and he was like, what do you want to do? You know, and we started talking. And I'm like, I do this slingshot, you know, because he's asking me. I was always taught when the veteran or who the matches engineered for, when they're asking you questions, you just shut up.

Like, for any vet, you know, you just stop and listen. When they ask you questions, then you answer. but you give your input when they ask you for it. One of the things that most academies or school, excuse me, programs, you're on coal, is etiquette is not taught because a lot of these mixed schools are taught by people who taught themselves or that couldn't get booked elsewhere because they sucked. And so now they, now they're teaching people and they're the champion.

of their promotion and they're you know and it's just oh you can't work anywhere else or you're never come back you know like man we'll shut the door like it's just it's garbage it's all crap um but you know it was hard to get back in it so you know at that time so selling and and i was taught you know make yourself available for the person so that's what happened with parry Saturn, which allowed him to give me a ton of offense in that match. And that's what really put me on the map was that match

with Saturn, because he came to the back. He was like, oh, kid, it was so awesome hugging me. And I was like, what? Perry? Who do you work with? He's in a good mood? Like, what? And Haman's running down in the hallway. Sign this kid. Sign this kid. I swear.

Wow. What the hell is happening here? I think it's signed for another year and a half later. but that match with John was another tryout match, a dark match, or it was on velocity, but I was, it was for him, right? I wasn't signed. But he, you know, what do you do? I do this slingshot, head scissors, show me. We're getting the rain.

This is before the fans get in the building. Slingshot, I like, Jack, like Jet Liam in the face, like, slingshot, you know, I'm parallel to the ropes coming over. He's supposed to catch my ankle. here and go this way. But it went, and I was like, oh shit,

I'm fucked. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. He's like, it's not ballet. It's not ballet. Come on.

Let's do it again. And we hit it and, you know, trying it and then it worked in the match. So just like super generous. And I didn't find out until later at OVW when John came to work out with us. And he's like, why are you here?

like, I'm like, where they told me to go. He was just, you know, he was like, you know, they got me, they got mad at me for giving you a lot. I was like, what?

He just wanted you to get your stuff in? Yeah, he was like, hit me with that. Because his thing was like, I'm beating you fairly obviously, you know, that's,

that's no question there, no surprise. But he was just generous, you know, I found that with a lot of guys. I don't know if it was, was because I was generating somewhat of an indie buzz at the time. But, you know, there's a certain North Carolina back yarder that should go unnamed that gave me

his finish twice when I wrestled him. You know, this was like, who gives their finish twice to an enhancement guy? You know what I mean? It just made me look stronger. And it got weird, actually, because there was another time, see, when they would come to Texas, I would do pretty much the full loop. So I went up to Dallas at one time, and Johnny Ace wanted me to try out two other guys.

And he was like, pick a partner, you know. Oddly, I picked Snooka Jr., the dipshit who ended up being a douche of douche and domino. Domino's great. Dush, total douche bag. Cherry's great, too. Very cool. very much a douche, uh,

and, but at the time, he was cool, you know what I mean? I think he had maybe just walked out on maybe four of his kids at that time. So instead of like eight. So, but he was cool.

He wasn't a douchebag at the time. And so I was like, I'll pick him. And we were a tag team testing out another tag team before doors opened. And like Booker T's doing commentary and everyone's having a laugh at us. So the other two guys, one of them was this guy named Cedric of Hollywood, who was like a Texas guy who had been around for a long time. He was like a former like Dick Dancer or something who became a wrestler.

And the other guy was Scott Putsky. So I'm now being asked to try out one of my trainers. And it was just bizarre. I was like, what the, what is happening here? How did I get into this? But they were trusting me to do, you know, to test. And I was like, yeah, you want to give me a contract, maybe. and then I can really test you guys out.

But then it was by using the leverage that I had from a zero one offer that was on the table from Hashimoto, who was my boss when I was at zero one, and the repetitive offerings by TNA to sign there, I was talking with Dr. Tom Pritchard, and I said, look, you know, if you guys don't want to sign me, you've given me, you know, six or something. seven tryouts. I think I've passed all of them. If you don't want to sign me, I'm going to have

to sign one of these. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on the phone. Hold on. And then it was like, okay, go to Louisville. And then I was in Louisville for like two months. And then after you got signed your first televised appearance, the first time we see you on TV is a segment with Vince McMahon. But that was not the first time I met Vince McMahon. Okay. So I was also a professional plant, right? Because it was a plant in WCW. Well, after the Parry Saturday match, I was also a plant for SmackDown. And this is leading up to WrestleMania 18. So, Undertaker's a heel. Flair is a baby face. They stumble into the crowd. Flair goes to punch Undertaker. Taker moves. He decks a fan. I'm the fan. So he decks me. It's a live Smackdown. We go upstairs. It's like, we're coming back in like two minutes.

they're like, okay, you're going to say that man. That man punched me. I'm like, flare right there. Don't say his name. What the fuck kind of fan am I? I don't know his name. I'm wearing a Stone Cold shirt. And kind of, what?

I want the pussy wheeling, jet stealing, limo driving. That dude, the money dude. Yeah, he hit me. No, say that man. That man hit me. Like, okay. So at the end of that night, in San Antonio,

know, Freeman, I think it was Freeman Coliseum. All the local guys are like waiting to say, oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. We're all waiting. So Vince is, you know, power walking. He's got like shoulder pads in his suit, right? And I'm last. So Vince is walking. I was like, oh, thank you, sir.

Remember me and hiring me and change my life forever. Oh, thank you, sir. I'll get up, buddy. Oh, oh, oh, do you don't want that? Yeah, okay, okay. Oh, thank you. I'm like, thank you, sir. I went in for an aggressive handshake, and this is what I did.

Okay. I went in for an aggressive handshake. Vincent Mann, I caught these two. Like a lobster handshake. But I had committed to it. Oh, no. I was already committed. And I went like this, and he, like, wiped my handshake off.

And, like, power walked off. I was like, I'm fucked. They're working here. I'm done. I'm done. I just, like, clipped his two fingers. I don't know what that was. It, like, didn't say anything to me.

He just like, and so I was like, fuck. Yeah. So, yeah, I, you know, when I got to Hartford, I think, is where they said I was from. You know, this is before the dress code. And I had gotten called up to do house shows after, like, two months. and out of the blue. I mean, I just, I got to the TV taping. I expected to have, like, a dark match with Brian,

teaming against whoever. And I remember Arne Anderson came up to me. He was like, you ready, kid? It's your big day today. You know, it's like, oh, really? What's going on? He's like, you might want to go get some better clothes, you know? Like, you got this thing with Vince.

I was like, oh, my God. So I ran across the street. I don't know if it was like Brooks Brothers or something. I don't know. I spent money on slacks and like basically what you see in that shot. And it was fine. Like it was cool. I, you know,

wasn't like going to remind him like, oh, I'm the guy. I grabbed two fingers a couple years ago. But they were, he was cool. And he was, he seemed to like it. And I got,

you know, it seemed fine. The only problem I had was that I was saying I was from Hartford because I was like, this sucks. You know what I mean? I was from Hartford for like a few months. I think until Brian left.

again. And then I went to like, can I just be from Austin? Like, what the fuck? You know? Which is funny because then we did a Smackdown, fast forward a while. We were in San Antonio. We were in Austin.

And it was like a Cruiserweight Battle Royal. And it got down to, I think, just Hoovey and I. And we start kicking the crap out of each other in the apron. And I'm like really trying to hurt them because I didn't like him at the time. and because he was just very smug and arrogant. He wouldn't talk to without taking his sunglasses. Like he would always talk to with sunglasses.

I don't care if you're fucked up or you're looking at dicks or what. I don't care what you do. But like, look at me. Like, let's come on. And he just never would. And it was just like, dude, fuck this guy. So he went over in that match. And I remember from Melancho comes up and he's like,

I didn't know you're from Austin. We would have had you gone over. And I'm like, you motherfucker. or whatever. So the first time we see you in a televised match right after that segment of Vince, it's Brock Lesnar

and it's for the WWE championship. I politiced. Yeah. I was like, oh, you're going to put CNN, Brock, on there? You're going to put that tired bullshit on there? Are you serious? You want Hartford's own on there.

No, yeah. That, I think, stemmed out of that thing where he had decimated Brian. He took that crazy F5 into the ring post bump, which is still I have no idea how he did that. He even took like a weird beel back bump like from the floor up against the turnbuckles. Shout out to those bumps. Brian did an amazing, you know, incredible worker. But then he did the thing with Zach Gowland where he like bled him out like a stuck pig.

Oh, yeah. Then pushed him down the stairs in a wheelchair. Yeah. It's awesome, right? I'm like, this is my kind of action. And then it was me. But, you know, the same thing happened where I'm in the ring with Brock going over it. Arns is the agent.

I love Arn Anderson. I actually have one of his trading cards in my, I keep it with me everywhere. And his son, too, is fantastic. But he's like, oh, what can you do, kid? And, you know, we've got to make this guy look like a son of a bitch. I'm like, I think he's doing a pretty good job on his own. Just look at the dude. She doesn't have a neck.

He's shaped like ram man. And he was like, well, if he clothes lines me, like, right off the bat, I can do like a 360. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hey, Brock. He's like, oh, yeah, okay. And like, so it was the same thing where it was like, the more I just offered myself.

And I was like, what if, what do you want to do? And he was like, oh. And so I wouldn't say Brock took like a liking to me, but we were always cool. Always cool after that. I mean, he wouldn't say hi to anybody. a lot of times, but he was always cool to me. What does it feel like taking the F5? It sucks.

No, it was, it was the closest I will ever, hopefully ever be to being in a tornado. Because when you get thrown, it's worse when you're facing up because you can't see the ground before you hit it. So that wasn't bad because I was faced down, but it was the same. spinning and his power and his strength was I could not time myself. So it was like, I think I might hit. Yeah. So that, I was just like, I think he hit me like a power bomb.

I was like, and then he like, shoot, threw me out of the, out of the ring, but I was still like, so like I go into the ropes. And then I'm more like, blah. And then I think Brian came down and made the save because I was not about to take an F5 into the ring post. But yeah, he was always cool to me after that. But speaking about Brock, you know, I thought there was a moment there not at that time, but when he and I were in the same locker room, that was very eye-opening to me. It was when he left to go play football.

I was going to go to the training camp for the Viking. or something, right? They called everybody into a room and made him basically say it in front of all of us. It was like a meeting to basically say like, he is going to be leaving and this is why. And that was, and he was the champion, had bought his own jet

so that he didn't have to be around the rest of us or the people or whatever his reasoning was. I can't remember. Part of it, I think, was because he wasn't getting enough time to get his workouts in, right? It's like one of these, like, Dwayne Johnson excuses. And minus the Vos bottles. And it just was still miserable. Making millions of dollars, has his own jet, and it's still miserable.

And the champion. Like, we can't go any higher position-wise. Still miserable. Wow. Like, you know. And it rang back to when I would go up there and, do those tryouts before I got signed and guys like, you know,

Crash Hawley, Canyon once told me this, but these guys would be like, what are you doing here? Why do you want to be here? What are you talking about? It's heaven's gates. Not the movie.

It's heaven's gates, right? It's the dream, yeah. It's the dream. How is everyone, how is everyone not just like in a good mood? I didn't understand. It was so eye-opening, though, just to be like,

what is how? Something's very bizarre. are here. My whole kind of, well, a good time of my time there was very much like Ethan Hawken Training Day, you know, where you're just saying like, this can't be how it is. Like, I don't understand. Like, I don't, like, I'm doing what I think is, not required, but would, I'm doing what I think the company would be proud of. What a fascinating reference because Denzel's character is going, hmm, I know what the book says, but. Yeah. This is actually how we do it.

It's, I mean, you know, I, I never played the game. And hey, that's on me. You know, I take full responsibility for the things that I did that might have drawn the ire of the office. But at the same time, that was a way better alternative that made sense to my spirit and my soul, especially at the time. than the alternative. Did you piss Vince McMahon off

by smiling in that segment? Oh, yeah. It's funny. It's cute how sensitive millionaires are. You know, if you think about it, the money, the power,

the image, the persona, all of this becomes a big smokescreen. A big allusion. That becomes an illusion, right? That you use its leverage to create some sort of fear or, you know, try to keep everyone on their heels so that they're easier to move around.

I don't know, whatever you want to call it. But extremely sensitive. Like, very easy to hurt their feelings. So this is the segment when it was going to be, who killed Vince McMahon? Right? They were lining up for it. When the limo exploded. Yes. So what happened? We were in Hershey, Pennsylvania. We were coming off of a house show. And I had been pulled into the office right as I got there. I still had my wheeling bags. And, you know, I was already in trouble for another, before mentioned hillbilly backyard or wrestler from North Carolina.

sabotaged me by putting out online that I had leaked a magazine reveal to a fan, Playboy magazine, Rick. I had revealed that Ashley being on Playboy. I had revealed that online. So that had been put out there that I talked to a fan. I was like, oh, by the way, let me tell you all this private news. So I was getting reprimanded for that. And I was like, you know who did this.

You know who's behind this. I know, I know. we still have to talk to you. Why then if you know who did it? You know? So I was already in trouble for that. And then, you know, they called everybody over that they didn't have any plans for any, you know, just, okay, the rest of you, this was going to be going on here.

Okay, we're going to have this segment going on in the ring. Now, Vince is going to be acting very queer, okay? Very odd, unusual. Very, very queer. Like, they kept saying queer. I don't know why. I was like, okay, I think they mean odd. That has to be what they mean, right?

He's going to come back here, and he's going to, we're going to line you all up, and he's going to just walk along acting very queer, very odd, and just very bizarre and very queer. I was like, okay, I get it. I get it. Now, if he looks at you, just play off of it, you know, just play off of it, you know. The best part of that segment is watching everybody else in that thing. Like, their faces, they're like, that's my face. favorite kind of part of that scene because they were like oh my god what's it

like they're like really trying I'm like what are y'all doing so that was the only description they didn't say like okay they filmed the limousine explosion the night before didn't tell any of us that was what was happening didn't tell us anything other than he was bizarre odd and queer so every take he looked in my face and I'm sitting here thinking whatever is up this guy's is making him, you know, so bizarre. It wasn't the village idiot. So, hey. And I did that every time.

We did it nine times. Every time he, like, looked in him. You're like, walked out. All right. Thanks, everybody. And then it was that umpalumpa that used to walk Kaliah to the ring, who was in the office. And I'm not talking about DeVar.

because I love DeVorei, but the non-athletic umpulumpa guy who used to walk DeVar or call you out to the ring. He's like, hold on, sir. Do you think anyone's going to notice this? He pulls out like a stencil and like points out my smile. I don't know if you're familiar with like a mech-and-neck from He-Man or a periscope in a submarine. And his head literally was like, and he like, power walked over to me. He's like, why were you smiling? I don't know. I think because you're queer and you're like acting bizarre. And I don't know.

Don't kill the messenger. I don't know. I don't get that. I don't get that. And he walked off. Could have easily. Easily. Just been like, one more.

Sorry. Smile again and I will rape your face. Right? He could have said some weird shit like that. He probably would have. It's all you had to do. But he'd be like left and he was just like upset. And so then it was, you know, I got on.

online and I started looking like Bob Vila, Time Life Books, like how to build your own dog house. Because I was going to be in there for a long time. I was just like, fuck. All of this sounds like you didn't maybe have the best relationship with Vince McMahon. He's a piece of shit.

Sorry, I know a lot of... I was never a WWE superstar. What do you mean? I was not... I refused to be known as a W.W.E. superstar. To me, super star. It's not, it's not my call. It's not my call.

It's like, I am a fabulous artist. So what were you? I was, uh, I was, I was a utility guy who they couldn't deny after a while. And they tossed some good chunky morsels to. But I was, you know, Brooklyn Brawler and I would joke about this all the time, that I was a garaged Ferrari. It's just like, I exist. They don't want to drive it. But I don't know.

They bought it. You have one of the greatest Royal Rumble eliminations. Thank you. Of all time. Got in trouble for that one. Now it's, now I feel like Christian Lehner during the NCAA. you know, because they'll just like play the highlight over and over. It wasn't as glorious as that, right?

But yeah, at the time they hated it because, you know, Roll Rumble was my favorite event. That was my favorite of the traditional four, as it should be still, paper views. And, you know, that was one of the four pillars. Roll Rumble, Survivor Series, Ressomania, and SummerSlam. So Roll Rumble is my favorite. That was in the first magazine I ever picked up, the coverage of the World Rumble.

So I had to figure out what pro wrestling was. I had to figure out what the hell of Battle Royal was through images in a magazine. And it was just these gladiators. And it appears that they're trying to tip each other out over the top. And like, you know, so I was, I love the World Rumble. We get to the building. I think it was in Fresno. How does this work?

You know, how does like the Roll Rumble, the Battle Rumble, the E battle world of all better worlds. How does it work? I was super intrigued. Get us in the room. There's these big dry race boards with like 30 names here and like 30 names here.

It was basically like in parentheses I think who's eliminating you and I love Snitsky. Always have. Gene's always been awesome. He's a great guy. I love him. He's who I would hire to be Jason Voorhees.

But that's just me. When you shake Snitsy's hand, you feel like your finger bones have been incinerated. He's so strong. I think Stroman's too big. I don't know. Is someone really too big to play Jason? Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah, because then it's like... Strowman's a beast. Because then it becomes... Stromo would be better off as like kind of something new, like a hatchet. Oh, okay. You know, which was obviously, obviously Kane Hodder as well. But I could see Stroman being... Because he's freakish big.

Yeah. And jacked. Yeah, it gets this guy real? Like, what, you know, he could be anything. Yeah. And his voice, too. Yeah. So deep.

I think Gene really fits that great, in my opinion, in terms of like what Jason would be in terms of just this killing machine. But Gene is a killing machine. He killed a baby. He kicked it. Into the first row. Into the first row. I was like, I thought he would at least go into the uprising. He used to be a punter.

Really? Yeah, that's the story. for like Penn State. Like high school or something. Yeah. I believe it. I believe it. So when I saw him eliminating me, you know, I don't, it wasn't like, oh, I wanted Sean to like super kick me out or whatever.

But I think this is, this is well after his not my fault stuff. So I thought, well, I feel like that was just kind of a afterthought. Well, who's going to eliminate? Well, just have him take this guy. Oh, fuck it. That's what it felt like. So I thought, well. how can we do this?

How can we do this? And I love David and Goliath. Easiest story to tell in wrestling. Sure. Right? So easy. I said to my students all the time. And so it was a matter of just how do I get myself?

There are moments in that spot that I don't like. There was a pub of hesitation on my part before he closed lines. I'm like, ah. but that was my idea and Gene's like you know I'm going to have to bring it I was like yep please as long as you just kind of bring it kind of like bring it more here not so much here but but I had done that that that kind of gainer off the apron many times when I was in college in San Marcos Texas at Southwest Texas State at the time it's now Texas State that was my third college in about a year's time. And I would go down to Sewell Park and do running, shooting stars off the sidewalk down into the river there.

Like there's a canal that goes through the campus. It's really beautiful. And I would go down there, you know, like trying to impress, you know, chicks or whatever. And it was like a bunch of dudes. They'd be like, wait, man, how you do that? Well, okay, can't do it. somebody was like an easy bump for me to take but I had never done it off my right foot

which is what that one required because of the way that we had turned around so I was like ah fuck so like shout out to Gene because he brought it and I didn't really have to worry about turning because he basically turned me inside out and it was Kevin Dunn you know Bucky that sent the stretcher and that called for multiple replays and they knew what I was going to do they knew what we were going to do

I explained it to them because they want to know everything like how many times you fart they want to know everything and so it was like they knew what was going to happen but the reaction I don't think they expected that and now it's always like oh it's top 10 it's played every rumble yeah so but when I came to the back it was Paterson

who I think you know innovated or created the battle world right I think wasn't he I think he's credited

with inventing it uh oh my God it was wonderful that was a marvelous incredible bomb I've ever seen oh my god

oh my god oh cool maybe something will happen out of this Michael Michael Michael Michael Hayes

walking through you know Michael Michael Michael Michael did you see that oh my God we're an incredible yeah

I saw it it was good a little too good. Walks off. I'm like, what the fuck? And then Shane,

you know, useless shaman walking by. He's like, Shane, did you say? Yeah, I saw it.

Walks up. What the? What is this? Like, nobody gave two shits. Except Pat Patterson. But he invented it. So I was like,

if he's happy and Gene's happy and I'm not actually dead, I think it worked out okay. But, you know, They didn't do anything with it. Was there a point where you were told to not do shooting stars? Yes. It was after Kidman had been fired,

initially the first time this might remember on 2005, uh, Hoovey in all his sunglasses glory, had done a 450 onto my face. Broke your nose. No. No. No.

He didn't break anything. Okay. It looked bad. except more of my trust. It looks bad though. It's like knees right to the face. Well, no, it's like it's more of a foot stop. It's like his foot, like the bottom of his foot goes like graces my face.

And so shout out to DeVari, my writing partner on that loop. That was in Worcester Mass. I remember because we tried to pay for like a 50 cent toll with a $100 bill. And I was like, get the fuck out of here. We're like, oh shit. But we ended up going to get my CT scale. at like four in the morning or something after that. Nothing broken.

Nothing broke. Okay. They thought I had cracked my orbital. So maybe the week or two after that, because they were building up to Hovey and I for the cruiserate title, but fortunately that never really happened. Because they had them take it off of Nunzio, because I had a match with Nunzio on Velocity.

Kidman had just been released. So I was like, hey, guess what? Green light, baby. shooting star city. Because that's the only reason I didn't do it. It was because of him, right? Even though he has the worst one in the business. Sorry, Pete.

He even told me, he's like, the second my feet come off the top rope, I really don't have any control where I'm going. I'm like, oh, good to know. Good to know, because I'm going to be in a fucking stretcher, actually, without any ability to fucking move. But fortunately, he hit me perfectly in that no mercy blowoff match. But he literally told me that one time. Second my feet come off the top rope,

I really don't have any control where I'm going. Like, well, you might want to cut back on the ding-dongs. But anything in which way, I loved Kidman in WCW, but he was just kind of a prick when I got up there. But I did this match with Nunzio in Rochester, New York, hit him with the shooting star. I was still a cruiserweight champion. Place goes crazy.

I get to the back. Malenko's my agent, because he always was. and Briscoe back there he's like from the back no more 450 I'm like

okay I mean that was a shoes whatever no more that I'm like what I'll look at Dean he's like well I'll go

I'll go with you I'll go with you so I'm like we're power walking past the monitor everyone's like oh yeah because I was like

just ready to bust out shit right I was like I did like the step second third front flip to the floor onto Nunziot. This is a velocity match. And then I hit him with the big shooting star at the end. It's crazy.

I get to the back and they're like, no. And so we power walked down to Vince's office and Dean, this is where I lost a lot of respect for Dean, I hate to say. He goes, let me handle this. Okay? I got this. Let me handle this.

I'm like, okay, yeah. Come. And he goes in there. He goes in there. He's like, sir, what is this? You don't want to. him doing off the top room. No, no more what he did.

No, no. Okay. He just leaves. I'm like, what the fuck was that? What do you think? Thanks, Dean. Fucking stinko-M-Melika.

What the fuck? Man, geez. So I'm stuck in the room with fucking Vincenzo. And he's like, I'm like, sir, excuse me,

I'm sorry. I don't, I don't understand. You don't want me doing what I just did? And he's like, no, no, no, I don't want that.

people are going to get hurt. I said, sir, that's my finisher. Like, it's, you know, I didn't hurt him. And he's like, yeah, but if you start doing that, other people are going to want to start doing it. Ray's going to do it. He's going to get hurt. I was like, nobody's going to do it. It's my finisher.

I'll be the only one doing it. So you want us to make an exception for you. Swear to God. And I'm like, this is, in my head, I'm thinking, this is fucking pointless. I just turn out and I laugh. Turn around and left. Because he doesn't get it. I was like, did you hear with the people?

And that was one thing I remember. Did you see the monitor? Because the monitor's right there. He's watching it. Even if he's not in gorilla, which he is for the TV. Sometimes he's in gorilla for the velocity. But he has a monitor in his locker room

that has like 20 jugs of protein from, it looks like a GNC in his locker room or in his dressing room. And then there's like this candy bowl. So it looks like old school planet fitness, you know, minus the pizza but he yeah he

I go did you see the reaction the people he explains it's not about what the people want guys are gonna get hurt I'm like

what am I listening to right I was like if I just kill him now I could hide him in all that candy dump all these but so it just and then there was a time

when Eddie empowered me before that because after that locker room thing when I was in his dressing room and I just left I lost the Cruiserweight title on Velocity the next week

Tenanzio which I had no problem doing Tenundio because I like him except for any pisses on my feet he's a weird prankster his size is like size 15 shoes he's like weird he's like a hobbit

but prior to that I had asked Vince if I could discard the Cruzeweight title in a very kind of like Shane Douglasy way you know and was like can we introduce

a title that's based on style and speed all the matches will be timed like 10 minutes time limit that way it'll be kind of more of an accelerated pace you know that exists now right yeah apparently but this was to benefit

guys like Canyon and other big guys that could move because it was like, these guys need to be highlighted for what they can do. Kind of sounds like you were pitching the X-Division before the X-Division. Well, it was after the X-Division. Okay. It was well after the X-Division.

Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't. But whereas the X-Division, X-Division slowly gradually turned into any size, I think, guys. But initially, it was kind of still thought of as like a cruise weighty thing. Right. Right. And then I think they went, Samoa Joe can move. Right.

Let's put them in this division. Yeah. Yeah. Which is awesome. Yeah. But if you add the time limit to it, you know, like they do that at CMLL, the relampogos match, lightning match, you know, so it's like 10 minutes or less, our 10 minute time limit. It accelerates things. And it creates a sense of urgency as the time starts ticking down, you know.

So I think that's really neat. I think it helps. I think it helps. I think there should be time. set for all matches, because, especially on independence, because guys just going to business for themselves. And it's like, oh, it says 15 on the sheet. Why'd they go 30? You know, so by the time you go out for the main event or whatever, it's past midnight, half the crowd's gone. You're describing 90% of indie shows. Seriously. You know, so. We've all been to that indie show.

Yeah, but my, my theory is better to go under than over, obviously, and let the main. event or whoever's lost make up the time. But you certainly don't want to cut into their time. I'd seen that happen to Undertaker several times and he would get back and he was furious. You know what I mean? Furious. It's like,

hey everybody, like, who do you think fucking filled the seats? He did. So you might want to like, yeah, people didn't come for us, velocity. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. Have you thought about starting a podcast? I've got several.

But I, you know, I have a podcast called Territory Marks, which I run with my friend Zach, and we just delve into territory matches. But like if you just, you could have a podcast for a thousand episodes just telling your version of all of the things you experienced in your career. Yeah, I, and I'm not a fan of like ghost writers, you know, like, I love Charlie Chaplin. We have the same birthday.

He wrote his own book. Oh, you're writing a book. I need to before I forget all this stuff. Seriously, I'm addicted to head injuries. I'm addicted to concussions. I, you know, but... And you're still wrestling?

Yeah, you know, but I... I think I get different degrees of concussions. Probably more so in the past. But it even goes back to when I was playing basketball in high school. How many do you think you've had? Who knows? But it was never...

I've never, the only time I've ever been, the only time the light has turned off and back on was with the Davey Richards stomped to my head at Ring of Honor. Like knocked out. Yeah, but only for a second. And then it was up and it was like, is the match over? Oh, wait, no, we're still going. Wait, why is this fucking idiot trying to pull me in from my head?

That's funny. This guy's supposed to be like medic training. He's been medic training for like 20 years. I'm like, I don't think you're going to get it. you're pulling someone in from their head after you just stomped on their fucking head because there's a moment where he goes to pull me back in and he's like, and it's almost like, oh wait, no,

I keep feeling that one on the test. Oh, shit. But, yeah, I, Undertaker and JBL both and Bob Hawley and Benoit. These guys have all personally given me their seal approval. They're like, we know you're a tough motherfucker.

So, you know, that that means more than titles. That means more than being called a superstar. That title grosses me out. Superstar? It's just so pretentious. You know? I just got lucky because I put the hard work and the sacrifice in

and I suffocated every opportunity. That's not luck. Right? There's that quote of like, I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the luckier I get. I love that.

I love that. That's a great quote. I think it's Thomas Jefferson. That's great. And that is exactly what you're saying. The harder you work, the more opportunities, the more doors that open.

I wish it was similar in acting. Oh, I know, right? Although one final thought on acting, I do feel like everybody gets their break in acting. Unlike wrestling, like in wrestling, I feel like you've got a short window, right? Because only so many years your body can do that. Right. You can act till you're 120.

I plan on it. Wonderful. Everybody gets their break at some point in time, whether that break is a commercial for a car, or whether that break is being in an Oscar-winning movie or a blockbuster. Everybody gets their break. It may not happen when you move to L.A. at 22 years old. It may happen when you're 91 or something like that. Right. I am the captain now.

But are you willing to put in the time and the effort? Most people, they can't. They won't. Talk is cheap. You know? And one of my acting heroes is Lance Henriksen. And so I, you know, I admire, you know, he started really late too. And so I do notice things like that.

But it's like, I still want to be capable of doing some cool action stuff and some fun stuff. You know, I don't want to just be like grandpa in the attic or, you know, like, I get a lot of dad role. I play a dad a lot of times. And I get killed a lot. What can we see you in that we'd be like, ah, that's my guy. What should we watch tonight?

Oh, man. Well, I play a detective in this Lifetime movie called Killer Competition. I think that's what it's still called. They changed the name in all these movies. No, but I, Best Friend of the Baby Snobstaffee. I think they changed that to maternal sin when it went on prime.

Confessions of an influencer, I think, or secrets of an influencer. The Kinseniera killer. Was it you? No, I wish. You got killed by the Kinsenera killing? No, I didn't even get that much fun. I just shot one, another one just in November, where I die. You would be a great double for Christoph,

I love Christoph. You look a lot like him. That's so funny. Wow. I've never gotten that before. I've interviewed him many times. You have the same facial structure, I guess. I love Hafts Landa.

Was it Landa? Havs Landa is his character in Glorious Bastery? Oh man, what a performance. It's incredible. Yeah, I love it. No, I'm just very, I'm very lucky. I haven't gone down to too many bad paths or rabbit holes, you know. Like, still kicking.

I still believe. I'm still a mark. I still believe, you know, this is really cool. Like, this is a real surreal thing. Getting in talk with you. Oh, thank you for coming in. I'm a mark for you. I'm a mark for you.

I loved your interview with Blackman. I'm a huge Blackman. Oh, man. That was when people ask, like, what are some of your favorite interviews? I always named Steve Blackman. Huge fan. He hadn't done an interview, and I don't know the exact number, but it was something like 17 years.

Wow. Yeah. Which is just like, that took credit to you. Oh, he was so kind too. Like we did the interview with his house. Yeah. Did it in his basement. And like, he's a very busy, he has a very busy business as a bail bondsman.

I believe it. And like in the 15 minutes we were setting up for the interview, his phone must have rang like 10 times. That's crazy. Blackman bail bonds. Uh-huh. Yeah. What jail? Okay.

Yeah. He needs a show. He needs a show. Now that we don't have dog, the bounty hunter anymore. Oh my gosh. And then during our interview, I could just hear his phone buzzing, like 48 times during the interview. It's J.B. I was like, don't tell that story. So I'll end this with the question I ask everybody.

And again, thank you for coming in. My neighbor, Paul London. Yeah. What are three things, Paul, you're grateful for today? I'm grateful for my family. Because through all the concerns and headaches, and heartaches that I put them through, like they have loved me unconditionally.

You know, whether I see myself as, like, the black sheep of my family or not, they've never seen me that way, and they've never treated me that way. And so I'm eternally grateful to my parents, to my family. I am very grateful for the career that I've had so far. I'm not happy with it, but I'm grateful for it. There are times when I can look back and be like, man, that is, like, did I do that?

You're not happy or you're not satisfied? A little both. You've got to be happy with the things you did in wrestling. I proved a lot of people wrong. And that was a driving force for part of it, but more than anything, I proved it to myself. and that's been the most rewarding thing is that I've proved it to myself and that's why...

Well, yeah, you know, when everyone's saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I still bet on myself. And in a lot of ways it paid off because, you know, people can see all they want in terms of like, oh, well, he was, you know, his shortcomings and like he didn't, you know, he was like a, whatever they, you know,

it didn't reach his potential, whatever they might want to say, most of the rest in business that's not currently signed anywhere would still probably love to have half of the experiences that I've had. Sure. And so I'm extremely grateful for that. And that's why I do feel like I need to get on this book thing. It might be like Kenny Powers' narration into a, you know, dictator or something.

Dictophone. But I need to get this down because I'm just so extremely fortunate for the experiences that I've had. One of my friends who wrote a book gave me a great piece of advice. It's like what you're talking about. The voice note into the notes app. Yeah. So then it writes it all out for you. Yes.

I know. That requires a lot of advanced technological thinking. See, I'm... But if you're thinking something, you could just be like, oh, I'll push this button on my phone. I need to tell this story about that thing that happened in 2008. I need to find which of my friends are smart enough to teach me that kind of technology. I will teach you too. I'm, you know, but I'm also grateful for my cosmic intuition,

which I know that might sound bizarre. There are times when I can be fairly impulsive, and that's because when my brother was taken away from me when I was 16, nothing made any more sense. Tomorrow's not guaranteed, you know. And I read this book called The Book of Understanding, and it was a really profound read for me at a young age. Don't mind that the author maybe got charged with some weird accusations.

But the point is, this book really opened my eyes to a sense of surrounding and awareness and truly understanding what a flower smells like and truly understanding the mechanics of how a ladybug or a caterpillar, works very similar to what we do and just finding the parallels in the universe um i may not always have the right answer very often i do not but i do like to think that i am open and listening to the universe to help give me some guidance and that's why you know it's like to me coincidence is made a word to explain a phenomenon that's pretty hard to explain. But that coincidence to me,

those are markers, those are cosmic markers, being like, whatever is going on, no matter how crazy you're confused might be, you're actually on the right path. It's those little breadcrumbs, those little morsels. So when I see things like coincidence or when you have deja vu, those are morsels from the cosmos.

most. And there's like, whatever's going on, like just steer the course. Steer the course. Steer the course. And sometimes you'll end up in total darkness. Um, you have to have that eternal cosmic belief in self. And believe me, it waivers. I have suicidal fantasies just like anybody might at times where you struggle with depression,

you know. but it's uh you steer the course you're doing okay yeah no absolutely but when your expectations for self are just that expectations you have to find ways to release the expectations because what are expectations and so it really is a matter of connecting with self it's a matter of connecting with self, it's a matter of connecting with the earth, connecting with the air, connecting with the water, and the animals. We are animals. We are the most rabid, violent, conniving, nasty, but also the most loving, generous, caring, helpful, resourceful creature on the planet. And I don't what creatures exist on other planets but um i'd like to believe that that that does exist

how can we be on one planet in one galaxy when there are millions of galaxies i mean it just to me the numbers outweigh you know it's just like yeah i'm willing to to bet that yes there are other earth-like existences somewhere. Will we ever see them? Doubtful. Does it still help to create creativity or hope or belief? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what's a world without dreams?

Paul London, ladies and gentlemen, thanks again. Thank you. World pleasure. Oh, thank you. Yeah, get in nice of much. There it is. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock,

but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987, Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom.

Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. I'm