Insight with Chris Van Vliet - PCO on becoming ROH World Champ at age 51, The Kliq, losing his eye, The Quebecers, Walter

Episode Date: February 11, 2020

Ring of Honor World Champion PCO (Pierre Carl Ouellet) talks with Chris Van Vliet in Cincinnati, OH. He talks about winning the ROH World Championship at age 51, his match with Walter at Joey Janela's Spring Break, working in the WWF as part of The Quebecers, how he lost his right eye, his issues with Kevin Nash and The Kliq, wrestling for every major promotion, his goal to be on Ed Mylett and Tom Bilyeu's podcast and much more!A huge thank you to our sponsor Bet Online! Use the code BLUEWIRE at BetOnline.ag to get a 50% welcome bonus on your first deposit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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on this audio adventure. This episode is brought to you by betonline.agin.ag and untuck it. And, oh, man, what a good, good conversation is this with PCO. I mean, what a story he has. And if you're not inspired by the end of this podcast, if you're not inspired by this man's story, you may not be alive. Which is strange because I know that you're listening right now. I know that you're very much alive.

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is what I like to call dogs, pepperoni pizzas. Wherever you're listening, snap a screenshot right now. Let me know, let PCO know. I know that he would love to hear that you're listening to this. And thank you for leaving the reviews on Apple Podcast, which leads us to our betonline.ag fan of the week. Betonline.orgie is your online sportsbook expert. Use the promo code Blue Wire, all one word for a 50% welcome bonus.

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And if you listen somewhere else, if you listen on Google or Spotify or Stitcher, I still love you. I appreciate you. It's just Apple Podcasts, the only place where you can leave a review. So what a guy, PCO is. And at 52 years old,

he is your ring of honor, world champion. And his story's incredible. I mean, he's worked for every major promotion in wrestling. You probably know him best for his time in the WWF as a tag team, the Quebecers.

And he's from Quebec. French is his first language, but there is so much more to him than just that. In fact, there was a point in his life where he didn't think that there was anything left in wrestling for him. So in 2012, he kind of quietly retired. And then he just completely reinvented himself. He missed wrestling so much. And he has one of the best stories in all of pro wrestling. Oh, man, I'm going to let him tell it to you.

So, ladies and gentlemen, it's PCO. Well, there we go. And the Ring of Honor champion in the house, literally in my house. Absolutely. Yeah, I appreciate you coming here and thank you for making this happen. Oh, I'm so delighted to be on your show. I wanted to be on it, and now it's going to be something done, I guess. Well, I'm glad that we were both available to make this happen.

And the fact that you brought the title with you, too, that means a lot to me. It means a lot to me, too. I bet it does. I bet it does. What an incredible story that you have. And I think that 2019 was such an amazing year for you. How do you even top that in 2020? The only way to top that is just to really get going like what I always envision the PCO Monster Mania.

Just getting crowd really excited. getting house packed, getting good ratings, good buy rates on pay-reviews, and just evolve, just grow, just grow the whole PCO Monster Mania thing. I mean, you just turned 52 years old. Did you ever think you'd be holding a championship ever again? It was part of the plan, at least, you know, but that's the thing, you know, every time I set up a goal. And I have a vision about a goal. And I know deep down inside that that's what I want and I will, no matter what, get there. Sometimes you do get discouraged on the way there.

And sometimes you wonder how this is going to happen. Yeah. You know, that's the question I ask myself all the time. I know it's going to happen, but the roads, the way it goes, it's so crazy. So many azards, so many ways that I never expected that would happen that way. You know, like, I was always a big fan of, you know, you got to grind, you got to work hard for what you want, and I was a big fan of those movies. And I kind of created my own life, like the movies that I grew up watching.

Yeah, you're the hero of your own story. I mean, seriously. I know I'm the main character of my life, though. Not everybody is, though. There's a lot of people that are living for other people. I don't know. I always look my life as a movie and I'm the main character of my movie, even though sometimes I go watch a hockey game.

It's like the main character is going to watch a hockey game. It's just a spectator during the time that he's the main character of his life. Sure. So I always look at myself that way. And it's funny to finally be where I wanted to be, you know, like where I envisioned to be when I was 14 years old, when I had that young kid that had, that dream and his art, the burning desire that was there and kept there,

being there forever, like during all kinds of obstacles and setbacks and adversity. Sometimes it would take me a year or two to get back from a tough blow, but I always came back. Well, you've wrestled everywhere. You've wrestled for every major promotion. And now you've really found a home in Ring of Honor.

I feel like, you know, Ring of Honor, PCO, R-O-H-P-O, PCO, like you're a staple there now. Yeah, I really feel good in there. I feel like it's like a home for me. it's very family oriented. When I say family oriented, we are treated as a family. It's a cliche in wrestling.

Oh, we're a big family and things like that. But Ring of Honor, I got to say when I got there, the first night I was there and was hearing things like that. But I saw things from my own eyes that proves to me that they really are a family. I saw people leaving for other companies.

needs. I saw people leaving for whatever reason and we gathered all together. We wish them best of luck in their other endeaviors. If somebody gets injured, you see that

really family camaraderie. Between sometimes you have like a wall or you have like a distance between executive and office people and talent.

Yeah. I don't feel that at Ring of Honor. I feel like we're all part of the boat. We're all in the same family together. It's not too different, you know, the executive family and the talented, like, family. Yeah. And yeah. And I feel like I like that environment.

When you came in was the title even part of the discussion? No. never negotiated for the title, not even once to ring the whole year. Never, never, never. I mean, I would mention it sometimes on my Monday night PCO in this row on, like on my social media.

Yeah. I would mention it that it had been a goal since I was 14, but I never sat down with an executive as Ring Amador and say, listen, I'm going to sign with you if the title's on the long. line or if I get such amount of time with a title run or this or that. I just went with the flow.

Basically, I went like I'm going to just prove myself what I can do. Was it really Joey Genan on Spring Break that put PCO on the map? It was a big influencer for sure. I feel like everyone points to that match with Walter and goes, I feel like we were sleeping on this guy. That was the big thing, but one thing, you have to rewind a little bit. Ethan Page. The way it started, I did something on YouTube.

I was doing commentary after a pay-per-view or, you know, predictions or post, you know, post-analysing in pay-per-view. And then, like, I got a call from someone who wanted to use me as a real thing. wrestler and then I said well yeah maybe that maybe sounds good so I went and I really took that very seriously and had a killer match there and then someone from Indiana called Michael Blanton who runs Indiana black label pro wrestling in Indiana I call me up and says I got a date for you either on 2018 January 13 or April 21st and I knew I wanted to be a wrestling for April so I had to choose January 13th but I knew I was not going to be as prepared as I was

hoping to be prepared for the 13th because I had just worked a few matches before prior to that yeah but I gambled on myself on that one my flight didn't want to leave like because it was a big snow snow in Montreal oh wow we were grounded for five six hours I showed up at the show 15 minutes before bell time. Oh my gosh. And I was wrestling Ethan Page.

And we had a killer match and Joey was sending he was in the audience. He was wrestling on that show but watching me performing the audience. And on the way back

to the hotel, Joey asked me if I wanted to be part of the spring break. And I feel like when people saw the match on the card, Walter versus PCO,

they're going, well, Walter, huge indie name. PCO, guy from the Quebecers? Like, what kind of match is that? Yeah, exactly. But then you blew everyone away.

That was, everyone talks about that. That was the match of WrestleMania weekend. Yeah, it took a long time during the match. You know, like, what I was introduced, it was cold as hell. I mean, I heard a little, like, chant because I had just cut a deck of cards, you know, with Destro. I did, like, three promo videos. for Walter, so they kind of got over. So I had a little chance, cut the deck, cut the deck.

But that was it. It was like super cold. And until like halfway in the match, we started trading like chops, like from corner to corner and back and forth. And I started to hit like big moves like moonsault on the outside, the spring leg of moonsault. the sand on and I got power bombs through a table tons of the things that we did and in Walter and then as soon as we started like the trade because my my chest was like you know oh it's like you know it yeah purple green all and black I've taken some chops recently and it's still bruised and my chest is like so battered like so so all kinds of

collars I wouldn't feel even the thing I I was so pumped for that match. I was so pumped up. I didn't even care. So at what point did you really catch on? So that match was great. You won the crowd over. Did you start getting bookings immediately after?

Yeah, right after. Wow. It was really popped up like crazy. I became literally, I became a poster boy for all the indie companies in the States. Canada as well, but I did most of my booking I took in the States. I did like probably every single company. That was the main event. And it's incredible because at the time you were 50, right?

Yeah. And I feel like there's a lot of wrestlers that turn 50 and they're like, that's it, like one more match or, you know, I'm done. 50's like the new 40 or maybe 30 because, well, you're the champion of Ring of Honor. There's another champion right now in his 50s in AEW. Billy Gunn's still tearing it up in his 50s. I feel like you still have so much more in the tank. Yeah, I feel like that too. And I think that what fuels me, it's my goals.

You know, it's like if I would have come back and wrestle without a plan or without a goal or without knowing where I wanted to go, I think it would just be a guy wrestling in his 50s, but I had a plan. I knew where I was going and I was willing to pay the price and make the sacrifices. I love it. I always say vague goals get vague results. And you had a very specific goal. Oh, yeah, I really wanted to become a world champion for a major organization. That was the main goal.

Originally, when I was at all-in, but I couldn't do all-in because I was booked at Chakara, a long time ago, like three months prior to that. So I guess we never really had any discussion about that. You weren't at all in? Yeah, I got booked with Destro. We did like a demonstration, a demo, a strength demo, and all sorts of PCO and distro things. And it got really over. Yeah.

And I had to fly back in the afternoon to make the show in Philly and get there on time and make that tournament, the Kings of Trio tournament. Was there ever a discussion after doing All-In that maybe you'd be part of A.A.W? Yeah, it was a few discussions. I think I could have been part of AEW but at the end of the end of the day Ring of Honor is to me I had committed myself with them and they had been really really professional

like you know like I've never seen like anything like that maybe once one time the first time I got hired by WWE maybe it was cool but it wasn't as cool as the way they showed me how they really wanted to sign PCO. I was invited at the office. They showed me the dojo, showed me in St. Clair,

and met with Joe Koff and Greg and Delirious Hunter, and met with everybody at the office, and then we discussed the deal and everything like that. and then once I shook, you know, hands in my mind, like, it was no, it was hard to go back on a commitment. I'm the type of guy if I commit myself to a goal. Yeah. Or if I tell you, I'm going to do your, I'm going to be on your show.

Wake up at two in the morning, I believe. I'll respect my words. Well, I was talking to Ring of Honor about, like, I'll fly to Montreal. I'll fly to Montreal and do the interview with PCO. And they're like, no, we'll fly him to you. And I'm like, great. Sure. I mean, I'm glad that we're able to make this happen.

So you're a man of your word. And obviously, Ring of Otter is now building around you. Like, you're one of the top stars. Yeah, well, there's a few. I think my goal is to, like, like I said, you know, to really grow, help get the the company get known like more in Canada, more in the United States. You know, performing in the ring at a high level, but also performing outside the ring as the marketer or one of the marketer and marketing ROH is a top wrestling company. That's what I'm doing right now.

I'm doing almost every TV shows that I can get on. I was invited by the Montreal Canadiens. I was invited by their farm clubs, the Laval Rockets for the 100 games. So it was sold out at 12,000 people there. Wow. I was invited by the Boston Bruins Farm Team Club. I do all of them, you know. And I make so many good contacts. I meet so many great people along the journey along the road.

It's been fantastic. Well, I think what's so amazing about the story is in 2011, you were retired. So first of all, what was the decision going into the retirement? And then what was the decision going into coming out of retirement? Well, I think 2005 to 2008, I was a TV commentator in French for TNA. And I was making great money. I was on TV every week. And I had it easy, kind of.

And after three years, I had a good chemistry with my partner also. Who was a live ring announcer for Vincent? Slickman at one point. Oh, wow. When they were doing shows in Canada, Mark Blondeing. Very good ring announcer, very good commentator and everything. He's very talented. A lot of radio shows and things like that.

So I told him one day, I said, Mark, and said, I'm going to quit the job. He said, what? I said, you're the best partner I ever had. And you're quitting over, like, basically no reason? I said, yeah, I'm quitting over a reason. When I was 14, I wanted to become a world champion. I didn't want to commentate on the world champions. Yeah, yeah.

So I said, I feel like I'm not at my place. I'm having fun. It's a great job, but I'm too young for this. And you quit to do what? Yeah, well, the producer of the show brought me in the office. Are you, you're serious? You want to quit this job? I said, yeah.

So I'll tell you what. I'm going to hire someone for three months. I was going to England on the indie scenes and I wanted to meet Vince McMahon overseas showing that I'm not just a guy from Montreal showing up at the Montreal Bell Center hey I want a job back

you know I'm busy on the roads I'm doing the Indies I'm there in Birmingham I'm there in London and every shows that they were in England I showed up I had like a few tryouts and

And that was the reason. And when he asked me, I wanted to have it three months, you know, break so I could try it. And if it doesn't work, you have your job back and said, Robert, if I do that, that's because I don't believe in myself. If I do believe in myself, I'm going to say, I or someone else. Yeah. And that's what I said and that's what I did. And everything that I've done in England and everything that I've tried, I've failed all over to

place. After I had a good match, it was now a creative. They don't have anything for you. No, we, not really, we don't have anything for you. And then eventually I did like, I was in touch with John Larr and I had just a few more times over the phone. And I was doing some show around Lewiston and the New Jersey area. and he says, come to the office, we'll talk. And that was in 2009, I think, or 2008.

And he says, just choose the week in July, and we'll get you a raw and a smackdown. And we'll give you a good worker, a very good chance to shine and to show what you can do. Yeah. So I had shoot an angle for me and Sean Michaels for WrestleMania. So, I'm going out for my match. I got the guerrilla position.

You got like Sean Michaels, Vince McMahon, John Lahr-R-Nitis, a lot of agents, Paterson, everybody's there. And that match didn't go the way, I thought. And I had to fight the whole day, you know, to... I came in with a kind of a... Kiyokish and MMA kind of gimmick

and Vince was really competing against USA at that time so I had a nice very sharp zigzag blonde mohawk I came out the crowd was really

up for it I had a hell of a look but on that look they made me shave my head before I go out Vince he said to John Laronitis, I think that looks like, uh, that

Erica looks like a job guy. So we, we, so Johnson, I'm going to make you, make a favor for you. I'm going to make you shave your head. So I was kind of a, of a, off guard, you know, just before going for my match, you know, it's a slap in the face because you're all pump and now they're shaking your head and then go and then

right. Well, they must must be something they don't like in my look. So, uh, I came back from the match and then John's what did you think of your match? And I said, well, I think it was just very social. I had like two good moves that really popped out the crowd.

But I know, I don't think it was that great. So he said, don't even bother doing like Smackdown tomorrow. Oh, wow. Take that car if you don't want to sleep. Anyways, just take the car, just drive it back to Montreal. We were at Moilinsan Arena in Connecticut. and I drove back home to Montreal. And that was the end of your tryout.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I have so many other stories between me and Vince. Very cool stories that, insane stories. I mean, one time I think it was in, in 2003, I had a hell of a match. The whole bell center is chanting my name, creative. They called me like two weeks after they had nothing for me. 2005 is supposed to wrestle a guy, but the guy wanted to have like a 12-minute match. They wanted me to go over in a 500 match, so I ended up like basically nothing.

And then between, I guess, my try-out, the one that went wrong in 2011, I showed up at the Bell Center and then I was talking to John a few times during the night and he was going crazy all over the place and not much time for me. So I decided to wait for Vince. Because I was at three times World Tag Team Chay. Yeah, of course. And, you know, he would call me on my

phone sometimes, you know, when I was like on my peak and everything was doing well. So I'm waiting, I'm waiting, I'm waiting, at the end, there's no more wrestlers, only myself. I've been there since 11 in the morning. So it's about 1 a.m. in the morning.

I go to the dress of Vince dressing. Yeah. Two big, huge bodyguard is so huge. Like 6. 6.7, 6.6. 6.6. It's 3.50 each.

Yeah. Can you tell him that Pierre Carmel? That's there, and I would like to talk to Vince. So when guy gets in the room, he gets back out. He says, uh, Vince has left. He's not here anymore. I know what the bell'sender. There's no back door.

You're in the dressing room. You can't leave. You know, I was there when he got in. there's no week right yeah so I wait I wait I wait I wait I wait I wait Vince coming out at the dress I go hey Vince

the buddy guards they jumped me he got me by the throat and everything they're ready to came and just go no guys

stop stop hey Carl how are you my friend what can I do for you and then I kind of I was kind of choked up a little of like

you want to speak but you just you know yeah went through so much and I was totally taken off my guard

you know so I said no I'd like to come back and work for you talk to John about that okay that's what I've been trying to do all right

in my mind yeah and said yeah that's good so basically I had like you know a lot of setbacks and failure

like that big ones so to to be able to at 50 years old to get that call from Joe E. Janella and they didn't have the money to pay my trends and I decided to drive there.

So it was 40 hours to get there in Louisiana and 40 hours to get back in Montreal because I was not organized at the time with GPS and things like that. I wasn't doing much road. So I just kind of say, okay, Florida's 25 left. So Louisiana is going to be I-95 to the right you know so

about the same time I wasn't at the same time and I probably got lost a few times different roads and things like that so it took me 40 40

4 25 minute match so I had to had to be convinced that that match was going to lead me somewhere else otherwise I wouldn't have done it did you get paid for the match

yeah okay so you got paid for the match you drive yourself 20 hours there 20 hours back. 40, 40, 40. 40, 40 each way? Yeah. Come on.

Yeah, no sleep. Because if I was going to sleep for eight hours, I was going to, you know, getting there only the morning of the show and it would have been a bad day for me. So I wanted to have a night of sleep, so I didn't sleep. Now, if you don't mind me asking, what did you get paid for this show? Because I want to put this out there that you were willing to do all of this work for probably not a lot of money in the Indies. Yeah. That's probably around $300. Okay, so you drove 40 hours each way for $300,

which likely didn't cover your gas or your hotel, all because you knew that maybe, possibly. I was sure. So it's not a maybe. Okay. It was, this is going to turn my carrier. This is the match that's going to turn my car. What made you so sure?

Well, when I was talking to Joe in the car after the match with Ethan, uh, he was telling me how Big Walter was on the Indy. scenes. And then when I got back home, January, February, March, I was like three months to check out on Walter. So I knew he was red-od. And I just knew that it was going to be the... It had to be

that moment because I had been waiting for a moment like that all my career. It had to be this one. I cut that so many times before. But that time, I was very, very convinced, very sure of myself that if everything happened that way, the way that I connected with Joey, the way that my match went with Heathen, the way that I got kind of scouted by Black Label Pro, that had to be it, had to be it. Right.

So let's take it back a little bit. 2011, you were pretty much done with Rassler. For those reasons. You know, so many, so many, like, slapping the face. and the last time that I drove from Connecticut back to Montreal that I didn't even have the chance to do the second show I'm driving my car back home and I'm telling myself I'm kind of pissed too

I'm not in a good mood for sure but I'm telling myself something good is going to come out of that but I don't know when and I don't know why and how it's going to happen and I don't know when but I knew something good had to come out of that if I didn't quit. So what did you do for work? From 2011 until you got back out of the IndySaid.

Yeah, I worked in bars. I did bounce and then I did, yeah, well, I made a pretty good living at it, you know, but it's obviously something that I didn't like. Yeah. I mean, it's probably, it's probably where I was the weakest on my first run. I always was a lady guy.

And I think that kind of fulfilled a need. Like it was a place for me where, you know, was constantly, you know, talking to beautiful girls and things like that. Right. It's a certain standard, you know. But, yeah, and, you know, it gave me some freedoms because I were working like four or four days a week and had like three days. I could train all the time. Yeah.

Because, you know, it was like, I was booking basically. So you talk about how you had a great relationship with Vince and you were able to, you know, speak with him, have these auditions, these trouts over many years. did this incident with the click leave a bad taste in their mouth or or blackball you or anything like that? No, because the match that I, the angle that I was shooting for Sean, actually it was supposed to end up that package in England. I was supposed to give it to John Launitis, but John Launitius couldn't show up that day. So I had nobody to go and end in my package for the scenario that I... This is in 2009?

Yeah, that was over in England. Okay. And so many things happened because I had my daughter also in between, like a girlfriend, and so my daughter is 11, and her name is London. But, yeah, so I gave my package, I gave it to Sean Michaels, basically. And he promised me that he was going to give it to Vince. And he gave it to him because that's why I got the phone call from John Aronitis after that, put those try out.

Right. But the match wasn't like a good It was not a good fit for me When I went to the tryout And nobody liked the gimmick that I had Nobody I remember I was talking to Ricky Steamboat During the day It was the agent of the match

He did not see anything good through it You know, to any ideas I was coming for I was going against the tide That's one lesson that I've learned also Go with the tide Don't go against the tide I mean be relentless be focused, don't quit,

but when something gets in your way in a form where it's obvious that you can't change anything, go with it. Just don't be, you know, stubborn to the, that's what I did and I learned a great life lesson there. So if we dive into this situation with Kevin Nash

in this thing with the click, how much did that affect your career at the time? badly so you know you were supposed to it was supposed to be a count out right was the original no the story is like we all we usually for tv shows or our shows we always get the finish in the afternoon from the agent or whoever and a month before the Montreal show which was the house show for the title against Kevin he came up to me and very arrogant and he said it's going to be a big knife, big boop jackknife, one, two, three in Montreal. I was filming.

Of course, yeah. Now it's not going to happen like that. So when the show arrives and the show comes in Montreal, and then Tony Garria comes to me, one like a 10-12 match, and I'll put Big Kev, you know, the champ over a big boot, jack-knife, and said, no way. I'm not doing it. Because it's your hometown?

Sort of. It's a long story. There's so many stories and stories. He had started a year before with Sean Michaels where I didn't want to put him over, but I ended up putting him over in the match. And just the fact that I said, no, I don't think it's a good idea,

but I said, no, finally I will do it, it's all right. I think that I had like just put enough to get a bad taste on myself. And then I was undefeated for eight months, Jean-Pierre Lafitte. And Kevin and Sean were good friends. So I think the fact that it came back to Montreal where I had that little altercation with Sean just came back to haunt me because they really put a lot of Greece. on the mission right there to make me

bite on it and I did and I did bite like crazy I said no I said if I'm going to do a job here tonight I'm just taking my bag and I go at home you won't have a main event there's no main event tonight I'm leaving. Why did it matter so much? It's just a house show.

No that that wasn't for the that was the principal that wasn't for the show for the show I didn't care I would have put him over a thousand times it was just the fact that he called it to me a month before the show. Right. If I would have showed up in Montreal

and they would have said, okay, of course, Kevin is the champ. I want to put them over. I would have said, yeah, no problem. Yeah. But the fact that they rib me with it. It's the rib that I didn't like. Right. The rib that I really went crazy

for. And the first little thing that happened with Sean, I had still Jacques in my, you know, Jacques wanted to go to WCW. I wanted to stay with WW. and then when he knew that I was wrestling, Sean, he was saying, ah, they're going to make you losing.

And then I got worked up. And with Sean, I wasn't sure because I was only like 25 years old. So I was like, well, should I listen to someone who's got experience or should I listen to Vince, who's a boss and tells everybody what's the ones to hear? Right. So I was kind of confused. And so you created a little education with Sean that came back.

back to haunt me a year later, but it wasn't about doing the jobs. It was like maybe 5,000 people there. Right. I really, I don't think that was the big factor. The big factor was the fact that months prior to that, it came to me, and he said in Montreal, in your hometown, it's going to be a big boot, jacked knife, one, two, three. And you ended up walking out on the match, right? No, we did a double count out.

Yeah, okay, double count out. Yeah. And then where did things go from there for you? The hand of the match was really stiff because it sold out at the curtain, everybody's expecting a fight. So, and the next night we're in Quebec City, and it was tough. And then eventually, like, I decided to go to WCW, and then by the time I got booked by WCW,

Kevin Nash and got all and made their move there. Yeah. So that cut me off there right away. Right. So that's why it was a hard time from 1996, 95, 96, from that night on with Kevin all the way to, I worked against him back in 2001, I think. He came back to Montreal and worked against me and put me over.

Was there any heat with him then? No. And I remember his friends that were telling him, don't go to Montreal. It's a big traffic. shut there, they want to beat you up, this and that, and Kevin said, ah, come on, it was so many years ago,

and we, we hang out together. After a match, we hung out, and we had so much fun, and I learned so much about the business from Kevin. He was like a different guy, and today, I would say, he's a good friend of mine. Wow. I remember you talking in another interview where, obviously,

you know, you were upset about that situation, and you had written down all the things you didn't like about them. Yeah. Everybody that I hated, everybody that I thought that, you know, things that I didn't like about people in the wrestling business and around my life circle. And I was reading that. I was writing that down. And then as I was reading every single thing, it hit me like a ton of brick, like everything that I wrote down about other people's.

It was probably everything that I was myself. Wow. And that was, that really, that's really humbling. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm realizing the things that you don't like about other people. It was a mirror effect. Yeah, the things you don't like about yourself.

Yeah. So what changed from that point? I changed my side. Change my inside. I try to change the way I was dealing with people, trying to be a better person, personal development. Basically, I started to work on myself, and I knew that the success would come only by kind of killing my ego,

and so to speak, you know. And just be generous, be myself, and work on the, you know, the basic qualities of a human being. You know, like, it's not hard, you know, not to get anger. It's bad, you know, to be angry all the time, to be mad all the time for... It's really deep down and profound change that I made about myself. It's a long, long journey. I've been working on myself since that year, you know.

2000 and it's been a process and I feel like you know each and every year and I'm learning more things and more things it's a never-ending process you know you never get there but you always every day get the best version of yourself and try to be the best version of yourself and working out but I started with this you know setting up I had set up goals for my for my life but I started to set up goal for every day set up goals. for every week, you know, be, let's say if I was stuck in traffic, let a car go by in front of me, open the door for someone. Those things that I was just thinking about myself before. Come on, move out of the way, it's me, it's me, it's me. Close the door in front of someone, you don't care, cut the line.

You're late for an interview or something, go on the shoulder, cut right in front of everybody, you know, all those are things like that, you know. Yeah. And I was like, without knowing it, you know, like, I was always brought up good. But when I reached the WWE, the fame, the success, the money, my account changed, my bank account changed overnight, you know. I think my first check in WWE, like $15,000 for three days of work, you know. That's a crap one.

So you're going from being broke to that amount of money. Yeah. plus the royalty checks and everything and then eventually you just start thinking you're better than everybody my mom would say I'll go away to that restaurant today I don't know if those people

I'm better than them so I had reached out to a point where you know everything that happened to me happened for a reason I was the instigator of that and at first I was putting the blame on Kevin

putting the blame on Sean, putting the blame on Vince, putting the blame on everybody else. And when I switched that away and then I became very humble and... What a super interesting chat with PCO. We'll take a quick time out right now to thank our sponsor for this episode. Untuck it. And if you ever see an untucked button down, they look bad. Yeah. Why?

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Use the code blue for a 20% off deal and checkout. That's Untucket. T-U-T-K-I-T-I-T-com. The promo code is blue for 20% off. Well, you realize the common denominator and all of that. Yeah. It was you. Yeah, and I had to grow my qualities and reduce my bad sides or the things that I was a pain in the ass with, you know.

It sounds like you just became kinder. Yeah, kinder, more wisdom, I would say. But I was always a big reader. I always read, trying to find out what do I need to make it. Read, read, read, listen, listen, listen. Well, what books have really inspired your life? Yeah, The Alchemist from Paulo Coelho. It's classic.

It's classic, but it's my life too. Because every single thing that I did and that I led to this championship, every single experience the bar the TV commentator the run with Vince the

the hard time to make it to Vince first knowing that what it means you know even if it's hard it's hard it's hard eventually it's going to pay off I knew that and it's like in the alchemist every job that he's doing

in a way to achieving his goal to go to the pyramids it always brings and adds an arrow to his set, you know, add a tool to his kit. And that's when I was there in 2010 for wrestling at the pyramids, I went to wrestle in Egypt. Wow. And actually, I met Caprice Coleman there. And we were wrestling on resorts there, and it was like four or five hours. hours away from the airport, but I decided that at the end of the tour, that was no matter what,

I was going to the pyramid. And I went to a site where Barack Obama was doing his speech when he went there to Cairo. And when you look at all the nine pyramids from that site, it's breath taking, you know, you just, it's so beautiful. You just like, you cannot not be in the moment. you're one with the pyramids. You know, you're part of the pyramids. You're part of the...

And that experience itself was another big starting movement for me to say, well, how can my favorite book that's about, you know, reaching the best of yourself and it happens to the pyramid of Egypt's. I'm here right now. Right. That's pretty crazy.

Yeah. What are the chance that you're going to fly 14 hours straight to Egypt for a wrestling tour without learning and experience there? I knew it wasn't about wrestling. I knew it was about something about myself. So that's the book that's impacted your life the most. That's one of them, but there's many. Are you still, like, you're constantly reading now? Well, now instead of reading, I use my earphones and I listen to a lot of.

YouTube channels audiobooks sure you have a YouTube channel yeah yeah yeah I use a lot of audio books though but I read too I like to read airplanes sometimes reading also is different than listening so but I do vote yeah I read a lot by the way we'll link up to your YouTube channel

down below in the pin comments so people can subscribe to your channel you're putting a lot of your insane workouts on there yeah yeah yeah that's that's that's one of my babies there like the all those videos me industrial, the strength videos, the theatrical videos, the lighting yourself on fire. Yeah. All kinds of stuff, all kinds of stuff. I mean, yeah, you got to, you know, people got to check on that channel because it's

growing. Also, like, I'm just putting a video, I'm not putting a lot of, you know, I'm putting descriptions, but I'm not putting a lot of words, you know, like St. Wrestling or this of that like i'll do call that uh like search terms yeah search keywords hashtags well you should yeah i can i could give you some help here

but uh but at least i uh i'm regular like you you got a video every monday every monday every monday you got a video and sometimes you got extra videos during the week good okay so so that's that's constant it's been uh we're approaching or uh the hundred number hundred video that's great which is going to be especially one, a special edition for the 100. With so many people knowing you early on in your career as a tag team wrestler, did you always envision yourself as a single star?

I had to, to become a world champion. That's true. So in my mind, it was like really, I really liked the way that Brett had done is his way up, you know, the tag, the Intercontinental and the World Title. Yeah. But mine's been different. But like you said, 2019, the ROH tag, the Harrowage World Six Men tag,

the Crockett Cup, the NWA tag, the World Championship title. So it's kind of the same journey, sort of, but Brett was all in WWE. But, I mean, yeah, I wanted to be a tag first and then enter Continental and then World champ, that's what I had in mind. And when they approached you that you were going to be part of villain enterprises,

what was your reaction to that? I was really happy. Because the word that I was looking for was synchranosity. You know, it's been just since 2017. My whole life's been synchronoscow. Yeah, it's like you're in alignment now. Yeah, I mean, I met Marty in the year that I was in England for the whole time and trying to get in touch with the BW.

I met Marty and Nick Aldous there. Oh, wow. Just young boys starting up. Yeah, I was good to them, you know. And I guess from what Nick told me, you know, Marty really appreciate the fact that I had been good to them compared to other, like, veterans who were, like, more harder or jerks or whatever the terms are. Yeah.

It was always cool. and then when I was read out on the indie, Marty had the idea to start his own enterprises and called me up and then eventually the company called me up. And then I was really open about it because I knew Marty from England. Yeah. And I said, wow, I thought that year was on the drain. Now that year is just saving my butt there. That's so funny.

That's so funny how it came back around. Yeah, yeah. He came back around like, I never imagined. And the other thing is Walter. When I got to wrestle Walter, he said, Carl, you don't remember me, but we wrestled together before. No way. I said, yeah, I just broke in. I was 18, a 16-carat in Germany, a 16-carat tournament.

We worked together in a 3 against 3. Wow. And that kind of created that little chemistry, that little spark that we needed to get our match that to get a kick-ass match. Yeah. So, yeah, it kind of works back ways. In alignment, I like your word that you use. I'm in alignment. And so things from the past are helping me out now.

Like Marty is calling me up. And then I met also Nick on the road and started. And I had a tour 2018 with Brody King. So I was a good friend. We had a good chemistry. We had a good fuse. We had good matches against each other. So for me, me, Marty, Brody King, what can I ask?

Better. Well, you know, it's so cliche to say it, but everything happens for a reason. And it's funny how you might not know what that reason is in the moment. Yeah. Or even a year or two later. Yeah. But it's amazing these connections that you made a decade ago are now coming back around to help you now. Yeah.

That also just goes to show. Also sounds cliche, but be kind to everybody. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because you never know. Like, Marty's now booking ring of all. Yeah. How much has that changed, you know, for you?

The only thing that changed a little bit with Marty was like the fact that for a while, we didn't know what he was going to do. And I didn't feel like I should ask him. Marty, are you going to stay or are you going to leave? I didn't think it was appropriate to ask him, something like that. And he never asked me what I was going to do. And I think nobody was asking me because I was just. talking to

flip sometimes and he said, I don't know if you're resigning. I don't know if Marty's resigning. We don't know nothing. It was like a

tough time. So I felt for a little while I didn't know like I wasn't going to end up by myself. Was Marty going to a Hall of Elite wrestling? What was going to happen?

And we had a lot of interrogation. I was just focusing as much as I could on what I could control and not trying to think about what I cannot control and that's why I think that's one of the philosophy that I decided to embrace also when I decided to change myself. You know, I was like going against the tide,

trying to worry about things that I didn't have any control over. And now I'm making all the efforts and putting it a focus. on everything that I can control and then trying to let life just happen, you know. And I think one of the most interesting parts about all of this is English isn't your first language. Not at all. So that's another obstacle that you had to overcome.

It was, yeah. But I, at a young age, but I think also it helps me find my character now at my age. I think at one point, like 25, 26, 27, not being the first language, you're trying to, what style am I going to have if I have a life? bring interview or if I have to be charismatic or have to, you know, do something. But I've done like so many interviews over the last two years that I found my way,

like, I just need to be myself. Do you still, the guy that I am? Do you still have to search for English words? I imagine you're saying. I have my own vocabulary. If in my mind I want to say a word and it doesn't come, I'll use synonymous, you know. Oh, synonyms. Yeah.

But you're not like... Or if I don't know the word, I'll just make it. Like I did it's synonymous. Synonymous is a word. That's me. That's my own style, you know? Do you still think in French? No.

No, it goes in English. Okay. I think in English. Okay, so you process the words in English. Oh, yeah. Everything's in English. Okay, because I know some people process it in their native language. Then, okay.

It would be too long. It would be too confusing. No. I remember another person from your area, George St. Pierre. Yeah. I think his English is different than mine. His English was terrible. At first.

I didn't want to say that. At first. At first, his English was terrible. And he's really worked on it. He's gotten better. And he made tons of money for USC. Of course he did. Did you ever take any professional calls?

Classes to learn English? Not at all. I learn everything on the road. So you taught yourself English? Yeah. I learned from being around the people. Wow. I remember my first letters that I was writing for Stampede Wrestling.

My friend, like on high school, he was really good, like almost bilingual, so I would have him to write my letters to Stuart or Bruce Art, and I would send him with a decent English because he was helping me out. Or if I was calling Stu, he would be a little. in front of me and we were both listening and I was telling me to say it was like before I was answering it was like a time you know because he had to translate to me and then I had to answer wow this too and I don't think it helped me out at all but you somehow figured it out you learned yeah yeah well it was a lot of uh you know mistakes and error and learning from them and I don't know

I had it the hard way, though, learning on the road, it was tough because sometimes if you find someone who speaks French and you start speaking French with him, well, the rest of the group think that you're talking about them, so we have to speak in English between each other, but we both don't speak very good English. So it made it like sometimes, I remember we were over in England, and I was there in 91 for Brian Dixon, and for four or five hours, me and my partner were both to the French-Canadian and we're talking French in the back. And I think, Finns Finlay and Dave Taylor, on the front, I mean, they were red hot when we got out of the car. And I learned from other wrestlers, and then we never did that again.

But we didn't know better. I mean, we were 20 years old. We were having fun. We're in England. Yeah. Our first, no, second pro athlete. Well, we met. And the maritime's where I got fired after 30 days, and then I decided to go to England,

and then we really made the main event there. We're working, Robbie Brookside and Doug Dean every night, Dave Taylor and Stephen Regal, and all the top guys from England. We're working with them on main events all the night. Every night we're the top tag team there, 91, 92, and then I went for auto bands. Otto, like, really booked me, like,

one of the sub guys with Peter Williams, I think I almost won a tournament in Hanover, and Bramon, I finished four, Hanover, finished fifths, like, 21, 22 guys on the tournament. They pushed me hard. And that led me

to go to Puerto Rico for Carlos, and then that was the main eventor there. I was working, I was at Gonzales, and Carlos himself, and then Abdullah the butcher sometimes. And then that's where I met Jacques in 93 and then as soon as I went for a tryout and as soon as we debuted in the WWE it was like the we got the straps like I think it was like started in June and then September 13 1993 we got the tag I love that you know the day

yeah because it was like really an important day for me. Yeah. Well, September 13th, the tag straps, and the world title December 13th. There you go.

I had to be a monster. Lucky number 13. I had to be a monster. Now, if this is everything, you know, leading up to this point, I mean,

we talked about at the start of the interview, what's the plan for 2020? You're so goal-driven, so what's the goal? Yeah, it's, like I said, sounds cliche, but I'm trying to find

I was trying to find every word possible like I've tried maybe fever maybe you know different words for something that be inclusive with the big craziness that's going around what's happening with PCO

and the only thing I could come up what was the PCO Monster Mania Monster because it's going to be so big and monster because it's monstrous. Yeah. And also like growing up, being 14, Hulk Hogan was the man.

And I always said to myself I wanted to be the next Hulk Hogan. So it's like paying tribute to someone that I really admire

a lot for for what he did and the way he did it and everything that they've accomplished him and Vince together because I think they were working a lot together back then and I think

as of now Ring of Honor is not a global you know like 30 riders and I don't know how many you know people working around and

it's still like family not that many people involve in the process. So I think it's really to pop Ring of Honor big time. I mean, we have all the ingredients to pop and that's the goal that's to pop ring of honor. And now is the time to do it.

I always said, you know, I wanted to beat in the next Al-Cogan. I wanted to pop a territory like Joe the Duke did in Tennessee. Like Ogier did in WWE in the 80. and so that's what drives me. Well, now's the time to do it.

Wrestling's red hot right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was there ever a point, because your story's about like perseverance and not giving up on yourself, was there ever a point where you went, I don't think this is going to be possible anymore? 2011 was the year when I had that radio interview and a guy was asking me what's up with your wrestling career.

That's pretty much. I think that's what the retirement comes from. Yeah, okay. It was not an official retirement. I never made a press conference. I never had a retirement match. I never wanted to say I was going to retire because I knew I didn't accomplish

what I wanted to accomplish. Yeah. But you know what? By saying that to that radio announcer, it made me let go a little bit. It made me all the efforts and all the things that I had put in.

Maybe sometimes when you want something that much, that much, that much, instead of pulling it, you're pushing it with wanting it too much, too much, too much, too much. And maybe I was not doing the right things at the right times. Maybe he did the breaks, you know, just to refocus. And it's so weird, you know, like when I was doing those commentary for the YouTube channels, like just prior to that, I wasn't doing much, you know, I was, doing guys with comedy, you know.

I was doing a little bit like you're doing. I was having them, and I was asking question about, you know, the humorous, you know, where you started, where you're going, and things like that. Yeah. And then the guy came to me, says, oh, you're not in your face at all. He said, you should be doing that with wrestling,

not with those guys. Yeah. That you. And then this guy was in my life for all the other. He came out twice or three times. He set me up. with my my Twitter

not even my Twitter my restarted a new YouTube account with wrestling on it and started that the whole thing and no you gotta go wrestling and it's just something that

someone that I knew from where I go to get my things print out and photocopy and things like that just to another person just someone that happened to be in my life

for just one reason put me right back in the wrestling the relationship because in my mind you know I didn't know I was going to make it back there. And, well, now that you're doing this and you're doing it, obviously, at the top level,

what's the plan here? Like, how much longer do you think you can do this? Well, like I said, said that to many other shows and hosts before. It's not about the time. It's about the achievement. Once I'll be achieving what I've started, you know. a great run, you know, like a solid run, like good crowds, good buy rates, good gates, you know, something like pretty spectacular, not something ordinary, something unbelievable,

something that you cannot even think about. Once that will be reached, then it will be time to step up to the next thing. Are you? He's never given up. You really aren't human. Yeah. Are you afraid that your body might give out on you? No.

Not the way I train with distro. But the way that you wrestle, though. Like, there's not too many people that are, first of all, doing moonsaults, period. Not a lot of people doing moonsaults at 52 years old. And I do a lot of crazy bumps. Yes. I think I got a show during the matches I'm not human. I think that's part of the deal, you know.

That's part of how can he do this? And it's double psychology on the match. You know, you got the people watching you, cheering for you for either the story that's behind it, you know, the passion, the hard work, the perseverance, the courage, everything that you need to get there. And through the story of the match, it's the same emotions. And also I want the people to worry about myself.

Like, they see something happening. oh no is he dead he's okay so it has another emotion to the match you know there's not too many wrestlers that can create

that have the chance that they cannot create something like that where you know creating a reaction about their worry about the guy itself and on top of the story of the match so it makes each

each story into one story. Well, you mentioned Destro, and I feel like for a lot of people, he came out of nowhere. Like, I think a lot of people hadn't seen him until you guys were paired together. How did you get connected with him? Well, Destro did a lot of, did a few movies. He's got a face for movies, you know. He's got that look.

And he's also got the strongest ends in the world. He had the Arnold Classic and all what year it was. I challenge every like Mark Henry summer like all the strong men that you know Bill Casimir was there was the announcer for the strongman

contest and he challenged everybody put $10,000 on the table said like all those guys over 300 pounds they're all like you know super strong but nobody could bend a penny and a half Nobody can bend six inches nails.

Nobody can tear like under the X-Cars under 10 minutes and things like that. So he's got the strongest sense in the world. So he decided to, when he saw me, he said that I was Frankenstein the way I was walking. He was a big, he grew up on Monster. And to me, being a monster, it kind of recreated as his childhood a little bit. bit. And so he had, he says, I've got my monster now. And then he's teaching me the feeds of strengths. So I can have the strongest hands and pro wrestling too. So when I choke Sam or do anything with my hands, you know, that's, that's, especially my hands,

you know, that's, that's where I want to, I want to have a solid grip. That's the thing that I'm working on with this. Well, what, would, would, what, would many of, you know, other things, conditionings and things like that. You know, we work out a lot. But your character, it means a double meaning, because your career has also been resurrected. And the character as well. So it was incredible.

When you came out with that idea, he said you are Frankenstein, you have to be Frankenstein. You know, it says, that's going to be the biggest thing in the world. And I said to him, I always thought I walk funny, you know,

I got a funny walk a little bit like that. You know, like not on purpose. It's just the way I walk. I said, you know, I've been, a lot of people have been making joke about the way I walk. And I walked like Steinstein. So I said, I don't think he's pretty, but I'm going to go with it anyway. It works for you. Yeah, I don't care being ugly at this point.

So was Destro in wrestling? He was a big fan of wrestling, but he was a big, big, big fan. He did a little bit of commentary for wrestling. He was involved a little bit with the same channel where I was working, the same TV station. I went to see him maybe 15 years ago. I wanted him to be with me, and I wanted to shoot an angle to Vince with him as my manager.

Yeah. And he turned me down. DeScho said, no, I'm not interested. This guy is not about money. He's like, he either likes it or he does. I mean, he's like, he's like, the only reason I'm doing is because I'm doing it for you, man. He said, I love Munster. I love wrestling.

I love Feats of Strength. And we're training together. And that makes my, you know, that makes him happy. Well, you played so many different characters. Obviously, this one is, I think, at the top of the heap. But what do you think is the worst gimmick that you've had? I really think it was the Quebecers. for me because it was like a character where it wasn't myself at all like uh we never really won

like clean like it was always like some sort of a quebec rules like won the title by this qualification we uh we always got beat up we i was running on my knees i was like we went to jacques waist holding up like to me it's totally not me And also, I think to be successful in wrestling, it's got to be an extension of yourself. It's got to be a part of yourself that it's in there, in that ring, that people are feeling that you and your character are one. You're not playing a role. You're not, you know, I was good playing that role, but I knew that wasn't a role for me. I could, you know, I could do fairly good, you know, and the pirate that's in.

an idea that I shot to Vince where I wanted to really emphasize the fact that I will use a negative losing my eye at the age of 12 and turn it into a positive where with one eye you can still do great things and I wanted to do a lot of things with people that have a light handicaps and try to be inspiring, you know, as a wrestler for them, but turned that into the Lafitte where the great, great, Jean Lafitte was my

great, great-great-grandfather was Jean-Lafitte, the famous pirate in Louisiana, and I was not from Quebec anymore, I was from Louisiana, and it was, to me, it was too much cartoonish. That's not what I had envisioned for that character. I really wanted to be a, it's funny to say that because I'm not human

but the fact that I'm not human is because I've been made out with different body parts of all different pro wrestlers and I've been resurrected and that's what makes me not human it's like the tolerance to the pain but when I talk the feeling and everything that's human that's still human

and I'm saying that because of pirate that's something that I wanted to translate to the crowd I wanted to translate my, the quality that I had, the, you know, the courage that I had, like, I remember my family being at the hospital every day for one month. I was laying on my back. And I was a kid that was 12 years old and I was the one who was bringing their morale up. Don't worry, mom is going to be fine. Don't worry, dad.

Don't worry, grandma, you know, it's okay. It's good now. I'll be good with one eye. you know. So I wanted to, those emotions to be shown in that character of the pirate. I wanted to show which then they said the blindness was more the U.S. people, the Americans that didn't appreciate what my great-great-father had done in the past for the country and went sideways. and that's another character that didn't really like because of that.

I think that, I would have guessed it was your impact or your TNA character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was such a short span of time. Yeah, I guess you didn't get a chance to really get to know that character. Yeah, I know. Not really.

I didn't have time to put that much thought into it. I don't know that everybody realizes that, like, you're blind on your right eye. Yeah. I think that maybe people think that because of this character, that that's just a contact you're wearing. No, no, it was really a big drama in my family.

I got shot by a one of, you know, the pickup sticks to play, you know, when you pick up some of different collars. Well, we ran out of pillets and we're a bunch of kids at 12 shooting ourselves in the legs. And then once we didn't have any more pellet to put in a pillet gun, we put those sticks. And then it went through this, I was hiding behind a counter in the kitchen. and my friend, we're shooting our legs, you know, below the knees to make sure nothing would happen. Yeah. I think we were thinking that. I was thinking that for one.

But anyways, I was on my knees and went through the skin, and then I do it two rounded edge. So I pulled it back out, so don't ever do that. If something happened to your eye, you put a cop over it, you leave it there, you don't touch it, you go to the hospital, they can make the surgery and remove it very gently without you making the same. damage because when I pulled it, I pulled all my eye out like that. What? Yeah, because it's a rounded edge. It went through the skin, and by reflex, I went, boom, I pulled it out. It was bleeding all over the place.

And then I put a, and then I took a small towel, I wet it, and then I tell my friend, I think I'm blind, I think I'm blind. I'm looking in the mirror. No, I can see, I can see. No, I'm blind, I'm blind, no, I can see. And I'm going crazy. Call my mother. There was no cell.

So my mom was working My uncle got me And I felt unconscious On the way to the hospital Oh my God And I woke up I had like been four hours On the table

In the surgery Wow And then I woke up And then all the family was around me This is Not to make light of this But you know the movie The Christmas story?

No A Christmas story The kid wants a BB gun for Christmas And they keep saying You'll shoot your eye out kid It's gonna happen I mean, wow. But the fact that you overcame that as well.

Yeah, at a young age, it was very, very grounded, very humble, very, I grew up, you know, reading quite a lot of books and surrounded with a lot of good people. And it's just like, basically, it was like just hitting the fame, you know, that really the traps. You know, like people, some people never get out. it and they never get out of it. Like Michael Jackson died, he was like super miserable. I think when they used him is the same thing. And I think, for instance, like, one thing that I wanted to also prove when I came back and I make my comeback is when I saw the movie The Wrestler, I was so pissed off.

Why? When I got out of that room, I slammed that door. That cinema. Yeah, with Mickey Roar. Yeah. I slammed the door. I was mad. I hated it.

said, what a bad movie for... It's only showing the bad side of the wrestling world. You don't see nothing good about it. You don't see a nice father taking care of his children. You don't see a nice family growing up happy. You don't see, you know, someone who has money, someone who has, like, good things that that business had brought to them, you know, the comfort. The only thing you see is just... pain and misery.

Right. And I wanted to come back and I wanted to make a comeback and I wanted to reach my goal. And that movie was another incentive for me to go, well, they'll have to do another movie, but this one will be positive about the wrestling business. Hmm. Yeah. I want a movie to be, well, we're shooting my life in real time. Like, they're not here today, but usually at shows.

And since 2017, there's a crew following me pretty much everywhere. Wow. So before I won the title, after I won the title, before I sign a contract, after I sign a contract, and everything in between, and the good matches and the big match is, the big main event matches and things like that. So we got that in real time. So that's going to be a nice documentary, a two-hour documentary movie. We're shooting that for movie theaters. Wow. So the bigger the story comes, the bigger the movie will be, the bigger the book will be.

And there's different parts of your story that I think relate to different people from all walks of life. And whether you're a wrestler or you are a broadcaster like myself or whatever you happen to do, I feel like people can take from your story and apply it to their own life. Yeah, that's one of the goals too. And I think I was really inspired by a lot of guys that like the impact theory, you know. Yeah, Tom Bill you. that on Belu like I really like what he does. I learn a lot.

There's a lot of things that I already know, but just listening to it, you know, it always makes me go back in my values and what I believe in. And it reinforces all my values and all my criteria that I think that are important in life. And I think Ed Milet also is one of them. Ed Milet has a great show. His podcast, I listen to it all the time. There's no reason that you can't be a guest on Tom Billi's show or Ed Milet's show. That would be like something. That's been a goal for the last year to be on those shows.

So hopefully that's going to turn out to be something that's going to happen. Well, hopefully someone listening to this right now. Yeah, I would be really grateful if it happens. with Ed or Tom and can make this happen. Yeah, and also in the same line of those two guys, I was a big fan of Oprah and three. And I think she really knows how to get out, you know, what's essential in life.

So, yes, the achievements, yes, the job, yes, the wrestling, or you're an actor or you're, you know, whatever, field of life you might be part of. There's always like a line, you know, that makes you be successful or not, I think, and I think she knows how to hit the nail on those points, you know. So I'd really like to be able to get to know her and share a little bit of my story with her.

and then because she's just she's a lady that uh did inspire me a lot well i think we'd all like to get to know Oprah yeah yeah she's the she had some very interesting guest so i've actually interviewed Oprah once oh man you interviewed so many big names and i've been very fortunate and Oprah was just so kind and i think that was the biggest thing and she was so kind and so present in the moment and it's funny that you know i've interviewed you know you name I've interviewed every Hollywood celebrity. The bigger the star, the nice of the person. And I think that that's such an interesting thing

because most people would think it's the reverse. Most people would think the Tom Cruise's, the Sandra Bullocks, the Brad Pitt's of the world. Denzel Washington. Right. And I've interviewed all these people. They've always been the absolute kindest and most present. And I think that there's a lesson to be learned

from those types of people. Yeah, yeah. So for sure, yeah. I hope to have the chance that you had and to be able to meet with them and sit down with them and be able to be in ask and to be able to ask a few questions. Well, I think the word that describes you really well is kind. You are such a kind man. And the path that you've been on is the path that you've created for yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's, yeah, it's, yeah, you're, yeah, it's touching. It's been a lot of work and it's very very this just a piece of gold but it's it's in the meantime it's very rewarding. Sure. And from the people but also for my own self, you know. And that's why I feel I have the, I have to, you know, to get out there. and to pop this ring of honor territory, like it's never, never been popped before. And with, not myself,

but all the great talents that we got, you know, with Marty Skrill, the villain, with villain enterprises. You know, I don't want to go with names because when you forget one, everybody hates you. So, but I can say we got a super, talented dressing room and you just have to look at what the BWs got right now and what AEWs got and well over 50% of those guys are coming from ROH.

Yeah, it's true. And now that ROH is spending the money, is investing and is putting like more efforts into becoming like a, you know, a major company. It feels like now we're back to where we were like so many years ago where you had AWA, NWA, W.WE, like WF, whatever. So we got the three major ones,

and, because all the other ones are brands of WWE, so it's all WWE, a ring of honor, all elite wrestling. And that's, now that's the, you know,

booming the ROWA chain to make it like number one. Well, I want to thank you for this super enlightening conversation. And also, I want to acknowledge you for never giving up on yourself. and always chasing after those goals and being, I'm a super goal-driven person myself,

you set those goals and you're not happy until you've accomplished them and I think that that's something that's made you, the Ring of Honor champion, just made you a champion in life. Yeah, yeah, I think we can almost end up on this. You don't become what you want, you almost become what you are in a way that, you know, So sometimes we want to be something, but we're not totally ready for it yet. And I think sometimes you become a champion at a young age like Mike Tyson,

because from that experience, there's going to be some lessons to be learned later on. So that's why there's a different – there's an order and there's a time for different reasons for different things. But I'm so grateful that I had it at the age that I got it. I can appreciate every moment. I can assure you that I won't go back on the, you know, fall back on those traps. You know, I'll make the best out of it and the best in a positive one. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot.

I appreciate you. What a conversation. What a guy. Wow. I hope you are as inspired as I am. I mean, the man won the Ring of Honor World Championship at 15. one years old. He just turned 52 on December 30th. It's an incredible story of reinvention, of never giving up on yourself and believing in yourself. And if you've ever seen this man work in the last

year or so, you will know that this man only has one speed, and that is full speed ahead. Take a screenshot. Tag me at Chris Van Fleet on Instagram or Twitter. Tag PCO. He's at PCO. is not human. I know he'd really appreciate knowing that you're listening to this one. And also, if you're a fan of Ed Milet or Tom Billew, maybe you can, you know, connect PCO, make his dream come true there, his goal of being on Ed Milet's show or Tom Billu's show impact theory. So, hey, if you're aware of those guys or you're connected with them in some sort of way, let's make this thing happen. And I can't recommend that book enough that he talked about the alchemist that he talked about in this interview. Oh, man. So we're going to leave you with a

quote from the alchemist that I think is so inspiring. Almost as inspiring is this conversation with PCO itself. It's the possibility of having a dream come true that makes life interesting. I just got back from Las Vegas. I was there for the Impact Wrestling Tapings. Did a bunch of interviews there. Still got a bunch of interviews from NWA. And we've got the infamous chest slapping, chopping,

yes, you know the story. If you follow me on Instagram, you know exactly what my chest looked like last week. It's healed up nicely. Thank you for everyone who's asked. But I took 20 chops at Tyler Breeze in Sean Spears Wrestling School, flatbacks in Apaka, Florida. My chest looks exactly how you would think it would look after 20 chops. So that video is coming up soon as well. So make sure you're subscribed on here.

Make sure you subscribe on YouTube. Oh, man, 2020. What a year this is going to be. It's the possibility of having a dream come true that makes life. interesting. We'll see you soon. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do.

With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here.

The Jim Rome show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.