Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Predicting John Cena's Final Match, Most Annoying Chant, Who The Real GOAT Is, Worst Booked Match Ever w/ Sam Roberts

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Get your tickets for INSIGHT LIVE in NYC with VIP Meet & Greet! Sam Roberts (@notsam) is a professional wrestling podcaster. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in New York City to discuss whether John Cena could be the greatest of all time and his heel turn, The Rock's work as The Final Boss, the worst worked match, Royal Rumble winner and fan chant, R-Truth showing his more serious side, his favorite Undertaker entrance and more!   Quote I'm thinking about: "A man is great not because he hasn't failed; a man is great because failure hasn't stopped him." - Confucius   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux  SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Download the Rocket Money app and enter “Insight With Chris Van Vliet” in the survey   HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.comMIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Ah, yes, welcome back, my friends, to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for being here on this episode, and thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit a blockbuster on that follow button wherever you're listening right now, because I just finished recording the interview with a very very, requested attitude era star.

One who has only ever done a few interviews in their entire career. It's somebody that you guys always send me messages about and you say, when is so-and-so going to be on the show? Well, the answer is next week. So lay the smackdown on that follow button so you don't miss it when it goes live.

Today on the show, Sam Roberts is back. And it's always so great having Sam on the show. I love bouncing our different theories off of each other and speculating wildly, as he likes to say. We talk about what we think of John's seen his heel turn so far and whether his heel turn will last the entire year or if he'll be a baby face again at some point. How might that happen?

Who his final opponent could be? Why the final boss might be the best character The Rock has ever done his entire career. We also give our take on the worst booked match of all time. the most annoying wrestling chant ever, the worst Royal Rumble winner, and a few other ones as well. Also, huge congrats to Sam

for being announced as one of the hosts of SiriusXM's Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7, which officially launched today on SiriusXM Channel 156. Sam's show is daily Monday through Thursday at 12 noon Eastern Time. And the fact that pro wrestling is so popular right now

that it has its own serious XM channel, pretty incredible. Like what an amazing time to be a wrestling fan. Snap a screenshot, let us know that you listen to this episode and tag us. He's at NotSam. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here we go.

Ladies and gentlemen, Sam Roberts. Back in the Not Sam studio. Incorrect. Well, I guess with the logos back here. It's the Insight with Chris Van Fleet Studio. With special guests, Sam Roberts. It's the, it's the,

It's the Not Sam studio slash the Insight Studio slash the RawR recap studio slash whoever wants to do a show. It's really just Sam's basement, everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This has been whether it's, first of all, I appreciate you always coming out of here to do your show and not having, you know what I mean? Like the fact that you come to me. Why are you coming to my studio? I mean, I appreciate it. But like, it has been, this is the kind of rib of it all that like this is all a ploy to be like, how can I never leave?

home. It's pretty great. To the point where just like you ask, there have been, you know, people that have come over to do stuff here that have been like, is it okay if we do it this time, that time? I'm like, yeah, like, we're not on the clock. You're like, I love here. I live here. Yeah, so I'll just go downstairs and see you there. When Baron Corbyn came over, he was like, listen, I do want to do something, but I'm not getting in, it was like before, it was when he and Breaker were doing the NXT stuff.

And he was like, I'm not getting in until. that night and then at 11 o'clock or 1 o'clock, whatever my call time is the next day. I was like, okay, like, just so you know, no pressure. And he's like, I'm landing at like 10 p.m. I go, just so you know, no pressure, please don't do this. But if you actually want to do it. Yeah.

And you want to come by here like 10 or 11 at night. Come by here at 10 or 11 at night. Like, the studio's open. And he did it. That's great. So, you know, I'm a little jealous. What, there's just a spot. I mean, in your house.

It is. But also, like, you know, you do have to uproot, like, you don't, I guess uproot is the wrong word, but like open your doors to like this idea of everything. Like the idea of like, like, is your family okay? Mm-hmm. With Carrying Cross coming over on December 26th at 9 a.m. He's the nicest man ever, though. And the answer is yes, because he's the nicest man ever and he's looking at the kids' toys and stuff.

Do you also not find, though, like, when I go into the studio and it's in Hollywood, like, I'm away. like my wife can't be like, oh, I need some help with this thing. Or the kids can't be like, Daddy, can you do this thing? I'm away. I'm in a different location. When you're down here, you're just feet away from... I am just feet. If there were a true emergency, then yes, I would have to respond.

Would the siren go? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I borrowed the siren from the living room. Yeah, yeah. All of a sudden, you just hear... And here it is. We got to hear me. Every time.

That's a good call. I hear you're the podcast Tribal Chief. The original and only podcast Tribal Chief. Wow. Look, it is where it is. I mean, you know, last time you challenged me on that, within minutes, the Rock was like, hey, Sam, I listen to your podcast. I was like, Chris.

And then within minutes of that, he went, hey, Chris, what's up? But he just knows you. You might be just a good guy. Maybe. You know what I mean? Yeah. Look, you can call yourself whatever you want to call yourself. They call me, not me.

You can call yourself whatever you want to call yourself. I call myself a lot of things. Yeah, you can call yourself whatever you want to call yourself. Last professional broadcaster. Well, you know, original only podcast tribal chief. Just straight up, goat. Well, I mean, you can call yourself. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, that's the great thing about names when you give them to yourself. Well, and I've always been a believer of giving nicknames to yourself. Yeah. I think that is true. I think that like, who's Howard Stern, the king of what? All media. Who crowned him that? He crowned himself that.

Boom. And it's true because his bit was that he went off one day and he was like, Michael Jackson's the king of pop. He goes, who made this guy the king of pop? Who crowned Michael Jackson the king of pop? The answer is no one. He just started calling himself the king of pop. And that's the great thing about perception.

His perception is reality. Reality. Matt Cardona was telling me like, people think I do death matches all the time. He's done one. He did one. And I called myself the death match king. Yeah. And the name just stuck.

I mean, literally people have come up to me and go, I don't know, this, the Cardoni's doing all this death match stuff now. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He did one four years ago or something. He's fine. Yeah. I should start calling myself something. I call myself the three numbers on the back of your credit card.

CVV. Okay. That's great. That's great. That's great. I mean, look, I think that there is like in the interview space. That's what it is. like figuring out in the space within the space.

Like, what is the argument that can't be argued? Like, you could start calling yourself that and also completely back it up and tell anyone straight to their face. Like, yeah, that's who I am. If there's an issue at all, like, when I started doing pre-shows for WWE, this was like, at this point, like, eight or nine years ago, Renee was still there. And she was like, how do you want me to introduce you? And it was like, you know, it was the night of.

It was right before we were going on the air. And it was like a split second thing. I was like, am I really going to do this? And I went, last professional broadcaster. She was like, what? And I was like, the last professional broadcaster. And she was like, you really want me to say that. I go, yeah.

All right. And she said it. And like, once she said it and now it's just there. Could I be the most professional broadcaster? I don't know. It seems very, you know what I mean, inspired by. Yeah. I think there's got to be something, something in the interview

space. What's the thing, what's that quote, though, that like, when you're great other people tell you, there's a quote around that, you know what I'm talking about? Yes. When you think you're great, you tell other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you are great, other people tell you or something like that. That's right. That's right. But what if they agree with you? What if you tell other

people and they go, you know, you're right? That counts both ways, right? I guess so. See? I'll just be the, look, look, I selfishly do these interviews, just because I want to know the answers to these questions. Right. So, like, I'm really doing them for the audience of like, I've always wondered about, you know, this WrestleMania match or this

summer slam match or this obscure backstage segment or like what makes you tick at your core. If other people enjoy that, that's great. Right. Right. I do it for them. You know what I mean? Like, as they need it. I do it as a service. Are you a heel? Is that what this is? I can't know myself. I can't. You know who you're the king of gratitude. That's your whole deal. It's the gratitude era. Right. That's your whole gimmick. is gratitude. I am full of gratitude. It's funny, though, to take somebody that is like, no, I want to really push that I'm full

of gratitude. And I go, yeah, it's a good gimmick. It's just like taking off. Like, all right. Okay, cool. Thanks. That was pretty cool, though, at the Elimination Chamber press conference. You asked the first question of the Rock.

And the Rock's like, yeah, I listen to your show all the time. And I was sitting next to you and I'm like, what? And you looked at me and you like, what did he just? say and the whole room's going, yeah. And I swear, like I said, in all the years of doing pre-shows and popping up on this and that, I never felt my phone blowing up inside my jacket.

Like I felt my phone blowing up inside my jacket. Just from the rock, that's the power of the rock. That is the power of rock. Just the rock uttering. You know, I was listening to your podcast. What? He made a comment on one of my Instagram posts. I made a reference to it bad blood.

I was lost trying to get into the arena, trying to find the media entrance, found myself in the loading dock. And the rock drove by in his Ford F150 Raptor. And we all went, well, that's the rock. Right. He's not announced. I guess the rock's here. And I ended up telling that story weeks later that like, I knew he was there and it wasn't to like the smoke filled the entrance way and then, if you smell.

And the rock commented on that and it's like, yep, that's all true. And I was like, Oh. Isn't it weird? Like, he's like, no matter how long you're in this game for, no matter how many people you talk to, when the rock,

he just acknowledges your existence in any way, shape, or form, whether it's leaving a comment on an Instagram, whether it's saying something like he did. Like, it's like a, huh? Yeah.

Because it's the rock. Yeah. And it's always going to be the rock. And people can say whatever they want, but he's still, he's still the rock. He's still the great one. It's crazy to think how short the rock's run was.

I think about that a lot. Me too. and I actually, I looked into the numbers recently. The Rock won nine championships in 43 months. So he won nine championships before John Cena even debuted. And I was making the point of like, if the Rock didn't leave for Hollywood, if he wasn't chasing those other dreams,

if he just stayed in WWE and had a Randy Orton-like career or Undertaker-like career, it's a really good chance that we'd be talking about him having 17-plus championships. Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah, for sure. But at the same time, first of all, I think that, like, greatest of all time is not necessarily based on a number of championships. I do think that you're not wrong about that because it's hard to think that the rock, like, if he had had a longer career, it's not like he wouldn't have been in the main event scene.

Like, that's the only scene you put a guy like the rock in. I don't see that character evolving out of the main event space. So I think that you're right about the 17th championship. chips. I also think the thing about the attitude era is that like Stone Cold had the title more times than he probably should have. And a lot of people did because like they were they were switching around that title like crazy. I think what's amazing about the rock is that he came up in the attitude era, but they're really like it's one thing for Stone Cold who had this really nice career under him. It's not like he was guaranteed a main event spot at all. He was never, it's. It's never, it. never looked like he was going to get there, but the fact that he had this foundation meant that once he got there, he was ready to be there. Whereas the rock was just there naturally. You know what I mean?

The fact that he came, you know, he's flexed cavanaing and USWA for a couple of months. Then he's showing up at the garden, getting booed out of the building. And less than a year later, he's quickly becoming the hottest act in wrestling. And he doesn't buckle under the pressure. If it wasn't for the rock, asking for that, might be able to be. time though when he was getting booed, Rocky sucks. If it wasn't for him asking for that mic time to go, you know, rocks a lot of things, but sucks isn't one of them. Die, Rocky, die. I wonder, though, what his career would have looked like. Like, obviously he had all the talent. He had the look.

He had the charisma. But if it wasn't for him having that opportunity to get on the mic and prove what he could do, I don't know. Might have looked a little different. Right. Like, does he become that sort of, because the reason the nation worked was because he and Farooke, had that dispute over who the real leader was. And the reason that dispute existed is because fans were like, yeah, I can see The Rock as the leader of this. That is my favorite gif of all time when they're doing the backstage. Promo on the Rock rolls his eyes bigger than I've ever seen someone.

It's up and then it's all the way around. Just like this guy again. That is my favorite gif. I send it to my friends all the time. You know they made an action figure with the Rock's head doing the eye roll? What? I don't think that there's one. One other, like, you talk about a single instant, like one second of pro wrestling.

And it's like, we got to make an action figure of this. Yes, like, they made a rock figure. And like, it's got swappable heads. And one of the heads has the eye roll because he made that much of an impact in one second. And this wasn't an old act. This came out like within the last year. Because it's so giffable. Right.

That one and the stone cold where he's laughing. And the camera so perfectly zooms in. And then stops. Stop. It's just the zoom in was just absolutely perfectly timed. Yeah. So good. Those are my two favorite gifts.

Yeah, I do wonder with The Rock, though, like, had he stuck around longer and how much longer? Because the Rock, and smartly so, never gave himself a chance to get stale. You know what I mean? We don't know what that would have been like. Is there an ability to evolve consistent? enough that you can, and I think there is, and maybe he takes a year off here and a year off there, but yeah, I mean, the idea,

I feel like the Rock is just one of those characters, and there's very few of them that's meant to just exist in this bottle, and it was just lightning in a bottle for the period that it was, and then he can come back. And I mean, you know, honestly, like, especially once we get removed enough from it, like, we're, and we, you and I can have the conversation when it's time.

Like, there's going to be a moment in time to have a real conversation about the final boss character and how good it was and how impactful it was. Not to say it's over, but, you know, that build to WrestleMania 40 with the Rock becoming the final boss. And again, what is that character around for? Two months? That's it. Really.

I mean, he pops up here and there still, but really the run of the final boss is Las Vegas press conference to WrestleMania night after WrestleMania 40, say. And like, you know, I mean,

people can get frustrated at the lack of final boss since then, but the reality is that run in a bubble is one of those untouchable character arcs. And it's because it was done

with this pivot too. Like this wasn't the plan for months going into it. This was like, oh, they really don't like what we're trying to do here. Yeah.

We got to figure something out and run with it and see if it works. Yeah. And how are we going to go? And I mean, and it's almost like you saw it in the sort of slow evolution week by week of the rock's entrance music and the tron and like little changes that would happen week after week after week until you got to WrestleMania 40. And this thing had been built in front of us. And it was almost like the reaction that we were giving it was almost what was fueling the build of it. Yeah. You know? If we're talking about the final boss in that, that specific window of time. Yes. I put out a tweet at that point in time.

I think it's the best work of the Rock's career. Yeah. I mean, you would have to go. I mean, it's, yeah, to me, definitely by far the best thing he's done since being a full-time wrestler. For sure. And, yeah, I mean, you would have to go back to $500 shirt, people's eyebrow, coming on TV every week with a new catchphrase every single week.

Like, it's that and final bar. and that's your conversation to me. You know? Yeah. The Rock's a big reason why I became a massive wrestling fan. And like, I think there's actually a lot of things that the Rock did, just his charisma just oozing out of him, that I was like, I want a little bit of that.

Like so many fun catchphrases and so many like, he can get anything over. Yeah. He got it and doesn't matter over. Right. It was amazing. White Left did a song. I got 50 Bentley's in the West Indies.

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Since we're talking about heel turns, a dot Wycliffe. Did you see John Cena's heel turn coming? No. I mean, the real answer is no. I mean, it was, of course, part of the conversation in the sense that it was like, in the realm of possibilities of what could happen

with this buildup to Cody selling his soul, and we know that WrestleMania is next. Of course, the idea of John Cena could turn heel is one of the places where that conversation organically goes. That's one of the sort of on-paper possibilities. But no, the reality of it. And in that moment, like, no. And I think that that's what made that moment so amazing.

Was that, you know, there are people who put on their hindsight goggles and go like, yeah, I knew I saw that coming. It's like, no, you didn't, dude. You did not. Like, you knew it could happen. But you didn't see that coming in that moment. I didn't see it coming. I thought it was in that moment,

I'm perfectly executed. I just thought the expression change on John Cena's face was so perfectly done. You almost look like the Marine, like coming up out of the water, you know, like his head just like straight serious and you're like, oh my. Because you're going, no, because we were asking for it for years and years and years. And to get it when we're finally ready for it to have never happened. Yeah. And I think there was almost this idea of, like, one of the things that makes John Cena

charming, great, like, one of the things that makes that character unique is that it never happened. Yeah. And we've almost settled into that, right? Yeah. And now let's just have fun on this last run. And then, boom, it happens. That's what I was expecting.

I was expecting him to just play the greatest hits. Sure. I was expecting this to be the Derek Jeter, you know, last season. The farewell tour. The Kobe Bryant farewell tour. Just like, you go to every city, you shake your hands, you do a little, you know, photo opportunity. Everyone buys a t-shirt. Everyone buy, and they still are.

Of course they still are. I got like four of them. Which is crazy because heels don't traditionally sell merch. No, but there is something. Like people still I think, you know, when you're there, when you're looking at the shirt and you're there and it's your town,

you know, it almost goes beyond what's going on right now and you realize, like, no, this is still a special thing that we know this is John Cena's last night as an active performer in this city. Let me still be a part of this. The actual heel turn at Elimination Chamber was one of the greatest hill turns of all time. What's missing now in the months that have followed is there is no explanation as to what role the rock played in that. Well, John's, here's the thing. I do, and I said

let them cook a million times and people will kill me in the comments for saying you got to let them cook, but sometimes you do. Like, I think that... You think there's a payoff to this coming? I think that there could be a payoff to this coming. I think that to say there is no payoff before we've had the opportunity for a payoff beyond WrestleMania, to be upset at the end of WrestleMania to go, like, there was no WrestleMania payoff.

I get that. But to go, like, there's overall no payoff to this heel turn. I don't accept that because we haven't... We're in the middle of it. You can't go, hey, I'm in the middle of this thing. Where's the end already? Yeah. Like, that's not how storytelling works.

And I think that there have been enough breadcrumbs throughout. Cody consistently brings up the rock in these promos. And so it's not like they're going, no, forget that rock thing ever happened. Because Cody's not letting us forget it happen. And then on SmackDown, John Cena said, I made you think I sold my soul to the rock. I didn't do that. You know what I mean?

So we are getting these slow but sure answers along the way. And maybe this character is taking months to really flesh out. and people didn't expect it. But I do see a payoff in the future because either Cina leave, I don't see Cina leaving as a heel. I agree. Right.

I think he turns baby face at some point in time. And I think that the baby face turn is where the payoff comes. I would think so too. So then... But if the Rock is slitting his throat and basically calling the shots on that heel turn, I think the assumption is,

oh, Rock told him to do that. You know, I was yelling, I only did Dave Legrega about this too, right? He goes like, because he's talking about Goldberg getting a title shot. He's like, John Cena had a sell a soul to get a title shot. I go, what are you talking about? What happened right before John Cena and the Rock had the promo? He won the elimination chamber.

That's how he got the title shot. Like, he already had the title shot. John Cena versus Cody was already have. That's why John Cena and Cody were in the ring together. It was already signed seal delivered. Like, we're already getting the match. So John Cena did not do anything to get the match because he won the elimination chair. Right. Right. So that's not it. And I think people forget that that was what that moment began as.

They totally forget that. It was Sina shaking Cody's hand and being like, I'll see you at mania. Right. Pointing to the sign. I'll see you there, kid. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I, but I do, I do agree that like we haven't fully gotten the connective tissue because what we got was that moment. Yeah. And then everything since that moment has been, uh, John Sina telling this story of making a choice based on how fans have treated him. Yeah. Which is not. not based on what the rock wanted me to do. It's that he made this choice independent of the rock. It's almost like when you have a long-term relationship and you get broken up with. Yeah. And you finally go, well, you know what? I didn't like when you did this. And when your mom said that thing about me, I should have said something. That's what this feels like. Right. Like it's, yeah, yeah. Bent up aggression. Those resentments that you carry with you. And you're like, it's okay. It's okay. And then they break up with you and go like, well, I was going to. break up with you. You know how I said that your cooking was great? It was actually awful.

I didn't like it at all. That's what this feels like. It does. It does. It does. But I do feel as though it's, that we, we, there is still plenty of room. Agreed. I think that we're only halfway through the movie. That's right.

And I think literally as we're having this conversation. Yes. It's the month of June. And I feel like this is, if you and I were watching a movie and I say this all the time, you wouldn't turn to me 46 minutes in and be like, What is they even... What are they doing? And guess what?

There are people that do that. And you know what? I hate them. And so... This is why I advocate for seeing movies and theaters. Yes. Because you have to stick it out to the end. I advocate for seeing movies and theaters and seeing them alone.

I don't go with anybody. You know what's interesting, though, is... I'm coming across poorly. Cody never got a rematch. Roman Raines. Hasn't yet got a rematch. Roman Raines. hasn't yet got a match.

He hasn't gotten a rematch for the title. Yeah. And he hasn't gotten a match with John Sina. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, there's still a lot. And. But why does Cody have to be part of King of the Ring to get a title shot?

Why isn't it just like, hey, you cheated to win at WrestleMania. I would like to have another match with you. Because John Sina's like, that's not John Sina's call. Isn't it? It's all John Sina's call. I mean, it's John Sina. You know what I mean? He said, and by the way, by the way, if we want to get it, he said that he could just come back and get a world title shot.

But he's choosing to earn it by entering the Royal Rumble, by entering the elimination chamber. Right. So, but if you're looking, if you're looking for logic, he's telling you, yeah, I'm John Cena. If I wanted to, I've earned that. And when he said, I'm just putting myself in the elimination chamber match, everybody else had to qualify, but he didn't have to qualify. Triple H goes, yeah, well, he's John Cena. He's earned that. So the idea that John Sina does have some sort of picking and choosing ability of his opponents,

a precedent has been laid out for it. And those seeds were planted for what ended up being a heel turn later on. Right. Because, you know, babyface John Sina wouldn't have done those things. No, no, no, you wouldn't have taken advantage of the status that he had. And by the way, Cody Rhodes, Cody Rhodes is a man of integrity. Cody Rhodes is a man who likes to earn his stuff. Could Cody Rhodes go, hey, he cheated?

I want a rematch. Does that feel Cody Rhodes to you? Does that feel like an American hero? It's a good point. You know? So if we look at the John Cena retirement tour, he's got somewhere between six to eight-ish more matches likely. Because he's working every PLE and he's working every Saturday Night's main event.

So if you look at the whole schedule, I think it's eight. What do you think those matchups look like? We don't need to go through all of them. Sure. I mean, I think, and you know, I did my whole, like, here's what the rest of the scene as year looks like. It's all in the garbage now. It's all wrong.

But I think... So we know CM Punk's happening. Yes, we know CM Punk is happening. Actually, by the time this came out, I think that match has already happened. Okay, okay. So CM Punk on the list. I think we've got to get another Cody match.

I think that that's... Yeah. Yeah. Do we get a Roman match? You know, I would like to think so, except... I think that I'm not sure that we're going to get a Roman match to tell you the truth because it's not so much do I want to, yeah, I really want to see a Roman match.

I think the idea of roaming coming back, I think there's such a wonderful story to tell because when John and Roman had that match that was like the passing of the torch match, John Cena made it very difficult for Robin Raines. You need to learn to cut a promo kid, you know what I mean? Like he made it really tough for him. And the idea that this Roman Raines could come back. and go like, okay, John, guess what I learned how to do? And like, this is the Roman range that John has to deal with,

I think would be an incredible story. I just don't 100% know where it fits in. I think it could. I just don't know where it fits into the timeline with the fact that Roman still, like, his priority number one would be where he left, which is getting laid out by Seth Rollins and Braun Breaker. Yeah.

personally feel like Seth Rollins' money-in-the-bank briefcase is going to be used for the WWE championship. Really? I don't think it's a World Heavyweight Championship win. I think Seth Rollins... At some point in this calendar year? Yes. Whether it's John Sina or Cody Rhodes, Seth Rollins is going to use his briefcase

to get the WWE championship. That, that, and then that could lead to a WrestleMania match where Seth is defending that title against Roman Reigns. Which would be amazing. Right. And imagine, imagine after all, you remember WrestleMania 39. Of course. You remember how you felt leaving? This made, right?

You remember everybody was sad. Well, I think everyone just went in going, well, Cody's going to do it here. Of course. And everybody was like, you got to be kidding me. Yeah. What are they doing? Imagine going into a WrestleMania. And nobody would have thought this.

Like, what would that be two years later or three years later, I guess? that would be 42. Right? Everybody wanting Roman Reigns to win back the WWE championship in the main event of WrestleMania. Yeah. I mean, that's the most beautiful.

Like, that's the beauty of pro wrestling. The very interesting thing about what we're talking about here is it's easy to turn to heal. You know, you take out the baby face, you kick him in the nuts, whatever it happens to be. It's a lot harder to have that definitive moment when you turn into a baby face.

I agree. And I think that the best way to do it is just to be an incredible heel to the point where people are like, we want to tell you how much we appreciate what you're doing. Like Roman Raines hasn't officially turned babyface? No, and I don't think he ever will officially turn babyface because I don't think he'll ever abandon that character.

But I remember saying on Not Sam, I was like, Roman Raines babyface turn is the minute he loses the championship. Because the minute he loses the championship, is the minute we all get a second to breathe. It's the minute we all get a second to reflect. It's the minute we all get a second to appreciate. And lo and behold, he loses the championship. This new bloodline starts to form.

Next thing you know, Roman's fighting solo. Cody's teaming with Roman. And Roman is a baby face without ever changing. Yeah, the reaction he got at SummerSlam last year in Cleveland. Outrageous. He was like, oh, oh, it gave me goose. bump's just now. Like the crowd went crazy.

It's like, you were booing this guy a few months ago. Yes. And everybody right now who's like, it's ridiculous that Roman has been gone for so long. Yeah, it's terrible that Roman has been gone for so long. The minute our tribal chief's music plays, we're going to lose our collective minds for him. So who do you think ends up being John Cena's final match? I don't know if I think, I tell you who I want John Cena's final match.

to be brawn breaker i would love to see that too that and in this retirement tour we haven't seen him work with an up-and-coming talent yet because he's a heel yeah you know what i mean and it's like you're not going to give an up-and-coming baby face a victory over a heel john sina because the whole point is that nobody's going to beat him you know i would like to see here what i would like to see is john seen a term baby face with enough time left that he can tell a great story with Drew McIntyre. And have Drew McIntyre, although now that Drew McIntyre has gone away,

he may be a baby face when he comes back. I mean, the same Roman Range rule applies to Drew McIntyre. Everybody's just waiting for the opportunity to express to Drew how much they appreciate him. But if he's going to stay a heel, I would like to see Drew beat John Cena post-world title loss as a John Cena baby face. And then the very last match

is whatever that is. Maybe the Saturday night's main event in Boston is the rumor. And I would like it to just be old school. I'm talking Brett Hart, Terry Funk. I mean, like, literally not kill John Sina. Bronbreaker just gets him with a small package. One, two, three.

John Sina made one mistake. Bronbreaker wins. Bronbreaker gets to celebrate. And then because John Sina didn't get killed, we can then still have a moment for the heels to leave and the baby faces can come out. and congratulate John. I thought for sure it was going to be Randy Orton.

Just with the history there, I thought it was going to be Randy Orton, John's seen in the final match of just like, hey, we've had so much history together, let's do it one last time. And then when they had their match, like the second, like he lived right after WrestleMania, yeah. At Backlash, they called it one last time and I went, well, there goes that theory. My heart still says it's going to be Cody Rhodes with like a passing of the torch moment of like, I was the biggest baby face for all of those years. That's the role that you are in right now. And here's the match to prove that.

Yeah. I mean, I kind of feel like that moment would happen if Cody beat Cena for the title regardless of if it was his last match or not. And I also, you know, to an extent, I think Cody already kind of has the torch. You know what I mean? Like sometimes you need to get the rub from the last

guy and other times it's like, no, you already are the guy. Yeah. Like you're the guy. When Hogan passed the torch to Warrior, Hogan was the guy, right? When whatever, you go through any passing of the torch moments. It's the guy passing the torch to the next guy. Cody's the guy. You know what I mean?

Cody is the guy. There's no ifs, or butts around that. The idea that anybody presents an argument to that is ludicrous. I mean, by any metric in what professional wrestling is. Cody is the guy. He's done the impossible. I just don't know what the next six months, next half a year of John Cena opponents look like.

Right. And we can list off a bunch of dream opponents. Sure. But I didn't see a match with our truth coming. How about two? Right. Right. Two matches.

I mean, listen, he had that one smackdown where he had face-to-face confrontations with Cody Rhodes, Randy Orton, R. Truth, L.A. Knight, and C.M. Punk. And I think, I would like to see L.A. Night get a John Cena match. You know, I think it'd be really interesting because Sina's last run, it was the babyface thing and it was, like, tagging with L.A. Knight. But actually, one of the things I really liked about what L.A. Knight did in that run was he didn't, he wasn't disrespectful, but he didn't pay that much reverence. You know what I mean? Like, he didn't want Sina to raise his arm. He didn't. He was, like, hesitant to shake that. hand, like he still wanted it to be the LA night show, which I love when wrestlers have that kind of like, no, this is mine. I, you know, I don't need you to give it to me. It's already mine. But to see that dynamic get followed up with an LA night John Sina match, even if it's one of those Saturday night's main event matches, I think Sina versus L.A. night would be cool. I think people were saying, oh, John Sina's only going to wrestle on PLEs or Saturday Night's main event.

him having a match on Smackdown, that was pretty cool. Really cool. With Truth? And the work that Truth is doing right now is at 53 years old, it's special. Yeah. And honestly, like, the thing that's cool about it is, like, it happening when he's 53 years old makes it special. But if you were 33, it'd still be special. You know what I mean?

Like, it's just good. It's good work. And it's years. of doing stuff that resonates with fans. That's what it is. It's like you've built that equity with the audience. And a lot of it sort of just by trudging along and making things work that otherwise wouldn't have worked.

And just taking these little moments and making them memorable and just making it so that you talk to any wrestling fan. And you go, what do you think about our truth? I love our truth. Yep. And it's like, and you could say, you could go back, you know, to a decade ago and he's, you know, trying to get in the money

of the bank ladder match and saying, my bad. You could go to, like, more recently. And, like, I don't even think people, I think people breeze by the fact that, like, you know, the judgment day felt like it was going to end a little while ago. And truth coming in and doing that whole judgment day run with Tom and Nick Mysterio and, and, and, like, making a joke out of being the time. not merch seller and trying to give the judgment day their share of the money and everything. Like, it not only breed life into our truth, but that life was breathed back into the judgment

day and boosted them, you know, for years. Yeah. And I love seeing the work that he's doing right now. I like that we're questioning. Is he Ron Killings? Is he our truth? Is this a split personality thing? And we don't know.

Yeah, no. That was my read on it was that, like, And it was like, it's little things, because it's always little things with him. It's like little things like, and part of it was even, you know, doing the interview on Busted Open when I was like, wait, why is he starting like in a good mood? And then listen to the clip and now he's in a bad mood, right? You almost go like, you know, the sort of smart mark wrestling analyst goes, well, why, he's in character the whole time? And it's, well, he is in character the whole time, right? Like, clearly this is all intentional.

And then you see him like talking to himself and then saying, I'm driving now. Yeah. And you're like, is that, is that like, is that, is that, is that Ron Killings taking control of this vessel, this human meat sack that previously our truth had full control of? But now Ron Killings and our truth both exist within this human being. And our truth has just been having such a good time. Yeah. And everything has been working. but he has been taken advantage of throughout the way.

And getting released was one step too far. So now this other person that exists inside, like our truth and Ron Killings are one person. It's just both of these individuals exist within this body. I think that people for a long time thought that our truth was just this like goofy comedy act. Sure. You know him well. I've had him on my show many times.

Ron Killings, the actual. individual is such a smart person. Yeah. And I think that we're starting to see a lot of that in the work that he's doing and all the little nuances that he's putting into his character. And yeah, and like he allows you to a certain extent, but you forget that he is a two-time NWA world champion. You forget that he was literally wrestling in the attitude era and has wrestled consistently

since 1999. Like you forget that this is a guy who has seen and done everything. and has somehow in this business not only gotten the entire audience behind him, and this is not a nostalgia act. This is an audience of people who might have started watching wrestling two years ago, and they love Our Truth.

But also, talk to anybody who works in wrestling, talk to anybody who's ever shared a locker room with him. Talk to any... He is universally both beloved and respected. Say a bad word about our truth anywhere in wrestling. And if the audience doesn't get you, the locker room will. That's true.

You know? And I think that that doesn't happen by accident. And it certainly doesn't happen just by being a fun comedy act. I think that the truth is just the type of performer where it's like, I can do this well. And this is working. I work here. If this is what you would like me to do, I'm going to do it better than you've ever seen it. Yeah. I got some one-offs for you here. These are always so fun. Hit me. Hit me with the clippables. What is the worst booked match of all time? this okay the worst booked match meaning like so we're not talking about bad performances here we're not talking about no talented wrestlers the story of the match yes

done poorly yes I mean it may be obvious but it's literally a match that bother me when I watched it and it's bothered me every day since and it's in 1997 so it's been a lot of days wow yeah every day for 28 years

I can't tell you the amount of of anger that I feel when I think about Starcade 97. I get so mad when I think about Starcade 97, more upset than any other wrestling match that's ever existed. And I've seen a ton of them. But like, I just don't, I can't. People need to understand that the NWO was the hottest thing in wrestling. And the Hogan Sting story was the best-booked wrestling story, maybe says Hogan Andre.

Like, it was incredible. They kept our attention for 16 months, over a year. Sting shows up the night after fall brawl 96. It says the only thing that's for sure about Sting is nothing's for sure. And we finally, you talk about getting a payoff, we finally get the payoff in December of 97.

This is not only the payoff to Sting and Hogan, This is the payoff to this entire NWO story that we've been so invested in. And then this finish happens. And you're like, what the hell was that? This finish happens where they have a standard count. Hogan just wins. Brett says it was a fast count. You go, what is he talking about?

They're going to restart the match. Why? Wait, did Brett, did Sting screw Hogan? Did the baby face screw? the heel to win this thing. And then you follow that up with like just the messiest like, oh, okay, we'll have a rematch here. Okay, you'll lose the title there. I mean, the whole thing.

People talk about finger poke at doom. People talk about Goldberg streak ending. It was already done. It was already done because you had the best story in wrestling. In 97, going into 98, literally the hottest time up until that point in the history of professional wrestling. All eyes were on you. You had it all.

Why didn't WCW beat WWE? Oh, I think it was because of Time Warner. I think it was the merger. I think it was Vince Rousseau. I think, no, it was Hogan Sting, Sarkate-97. And that match is like the epitome of what was wrong with WCW at that time. Like, all he had to do was lay in the plane.

Like, literally, zero turbulence. And we were, by the way, we were looking, we were willing to look past everything on the way there. Any sort of wonky, any, nobody cared, age in the cage, Nobody cared.

It was all good. Just land the plane. All you have to do is land the plane, and we will applaud the pilot. That's how good the flight was. Everyone was going to applaud the pilot. And then you turn off StarCade 97 and you're like, I mean, I guess. That was the, that was it. Sting is holding up the WCW title triumphantly and this is what you're saying.

I mean, I guess. You're still bothered to this very day. You can tell. I can tell. It's really bothering me because you made me think about it again. And it's like, how could you, to be handed on a silver platter, the hottest story in wrestling with two of the greatest legends that will ever, ever grace the ring at their absolute peak? And Hogan having a second peak.

Nobody has two peaks. Twin peaks, maybe. And you blow it? They messed it up. I mean, something fierce, they messed it up. Like, messed it up. It's one thing to be like, oh, that was a little wonk. but to be like, okay, yeah, I guess.

And like, they're like, oh, there was no real payoff with John Cena in the Rock. It was like, that was, you were invested for two months. This is 16 months. And they totally like, and not only they blow it, but they blew it in a way that you couldn't be like, well, the payoff's coming later. And there's no way. They messed it up. They messed it up.

And then the, yeah, no, yeah, that's the worst. It's the worst. It's one of the worst things. ever happened. I'll give you mine. And I think I'm going to start to get worked up on this one. Okay. Helen Assel, 2019. Okay. Seth Rollins and the Feen. Sure. And of course, this is no disrespect to Seth Rollins. No, of course not. One of the best workers right now who can make anybody that he's working with look like a million bucks. Yeah. And The Feen slash Bray White, who is one of the greatest

characters of this generation. Amazing. So real with everything he does in the ring and you feel it. they're wrestling each other for the very first time inside hell and a cell. So already you're like, okay, I got questions. This doesn't make any sense. This should be saved for the end. Like, we've already had this kind of match and this kind of match and this kind of match. Sorry, it's October. Hell and a cell time.

So then the match starts and the red lights stay on? Stay on. Stay on for the whole match. Whole match. Whole match. Let's make this very difficult to see. It's just like it looks so. It doesn't make any sense.

can't rewatch it. You cannot. No. And I did recently rewatch it and it made me so angry. Because of all this going on or then the finish? All of it. We'll get to the finish. But like Bray Wyatt goes to grab this mallet and they're putting over like how this mallet is just crazy and like how could he use this? And it clearly kind of looks like paper mache. It's like, all right, we'll just, we'll roll with this. I'll roll with it. Then Seth Rollins hits the fiend with not one, not two, not. not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven, not eight, not nine, not ten, 11 stumps and also a chair shot. And the fiend kicks out at one. And we go, okay, great.

All right, I get it. Right, Michael Myers. He's indestructible. Cool. But then he's going to win the championship, right? It's hell in a south. If you kick out of 11 stomps and a chair shot, you're going to be the champ for sure. Done.

But then Seth Rollins goes and grabs a sludge hammer. That is, and that is unacceptable. Forget it. You can't grab a sledgehammer inside hell and a cell. No, no, no, no. They've never done that before. That's never happened. And then the match gets thrown out?

No contest. A disqualification inside a no disqualification match? Especially because, like, like, theoretically, like the stomp, 11 stomps, I think it's worse than one sledgehammer shot. I mean, I can't imagine that if a damage 11 stumps would do. 11 stumps is unheard of.

But why have it inside Hell and a Cell if there's the ability to disqualify someone or end the match? Or, geez, no contest, yeah. You know, I've seen enough. Right. Stop the match. It's like, what?

Why didn't we stop the match when Mick Foley got thrown off of it or through it? He wanted to continue to. No, let's keep going. That's fine. We got to keep going. Yeah, no, no, no.

That, it was nonsense. And I mean, and it really is a great example of a character like that. where it's like, like, you can't put, not all applications apply to all characters, meaning like, okay, well, the fiend is super hot and everybody loves him. So let's put him in the main event.

Okay, well, we can't put the title on him. Okay, well, we can't beat him. Well, whatever he gets out of sledgehammer and we make it a no contest. There's a hell in a cell match. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I know. Can't have a sleight hammer, though.

Are you sure you know? No. Okay. Yeah, no, it's that one, that one is 100% absurd. That one, I think, is fair to be put into that conversation. What is the best entrance ever? Superstar-wise or specific one? I think I'll leave that up to you.

Okay. I mean, it's hard to say that the Undertaker does not have the best entrance of all time. You know, I mean, this is, this is an entrance that people stop watching wrestling. And it's like, they remember the Undertaker. Undertaker's entrance. Like, if you show them one thing, it's going to be the Undertaker's entrance. I think if I could pick one Undertaker entrance,

I mean, there's so many good Undertaker entrances. Probably the Limp Biscuit, WrestleMania. No, I'm just kidding. I love Limp Biscuit, though, so maybe. But, you know, I mean,

and maybe this is just, this is one that I love. I'm not going to sit here and talk to fans and go like, nope, this is the best one fight me like I do with most of my takes. But for me, and it was because I was in the building, it was because I was a kid,

it was because it was really one of the first times that they said, what can we do with this entrance? And I go back to SummerSlam, 92, and I go to the Undertaker entering Wembley Stadium in a hearse. And it was just one of those things.

In 92, you weren't seeing that much spectacle from WWE at that time. You weren't seeing people riding vehicles to the ring. You weren't seeing, you know, 88,000 people, you know, all watching this show. And to see The Undertaker, who was just kind of getting his feet wet in babyface territory and how this character, because to me also, the Undertaker turning baby face is what made it go,

okay, is this like a short-term character that was cool? I don't know, we kind of ran out of ideas, or is this a character with real lasting ability? And I think that's why it's so important that that guy played The Undertaker because nobody else could have pulled that off. Yeah. But yeah, I think the Undertaker is,

that's my, like, fight me. The Undertaker's the best. But my favorite Undertaker might be that 92 SummerSlam entrance. The Undertaker's entrance is so legendary that it has transcended wrestling. Yes. Like we see it in other sports.

Right. Isn't there a band that enters to The Undertakers? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. For sure. And I think that that's so cool. That's always a cool moment when you're wrestling fan to be like, ah, that's our thing.

And like, yes, it is super cool. And also, like, there's not that many entrances where when you talk to wrestlers, if you're interviewing somebody, you can legitimately ask, hey, Edge, what was it like at WrestleMania when you're standing in the ring and you see the Undertaker's entrance, right? Or maybe the Undertaker. Yeah, I think the Undertaker was announced second. Whatever, you get what I'm saying. Yeah.

Like the idea that that entrance is so powerful that you can talk to wrestlers that were wrestling the Undertaker about what their experience was watching that entrance from the ring. Yeah. And they'll have a take on it. And they'll be like, yeah, that was a mind-blowing thing to see. One of my favorite entrances is when Triple H got played to the ring by Motorhead. At 17. Lemmy goes,

swim out ahead I'm gonna kick your ass Yeah Yeah Do you have you heard the story behind that Like Triple H told that story On one of the docs or something Where like motorhead was not there

And he was like Like where the hell is Motorhead? Like they were late? Yeah yeah they weren't on the stage He was like we're going out like where are they And Lemmy just like literally showed up 15 seconds before Triple H was coming out And just cool casual got up on stage

put a cigarette in his mouth through his guitar on. He's like, all right, let's do it. And just boom. And he plays this legendary Triple H entrance. And that's the thing, like, Motorhead are such rock stars. Yeah. And I think that it personified where we were at with pro wrestling at that time. Yeah.

Where it's like pro wrestling is so cool. Yeah. That Motorhead is going to play one of the top superstars down to the ring live. I loved Triple H. Was it his WrestleMania 32 entrance that Stephanie had that monologue to start it when she had all the skulls on and then he came out? I thought that was, I think that was 32 in Dallas. That was one of the cool things about when Triple H was an active wrestler was you knew that every WrestleMania entrance was going to be awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think 32 was probably my favorite, if I'm getting that right, it's probably my favorite triple H entrance. But yeah, Triple H definitely goes on that list of all-time entrance. entrances. Let me hit you with this one. What's the worst Royal Rumble winner? I mean, has to be Alberta Del Rio, right? It has to be. Has to be Alberta Del Rio. All due respect, but I mean, it has to. And there was such an opportunity in that rumble to have Santino win it. You know why? Okay, you're going to love this. Yes, it was definitely Alberta del Rio. And here's why.

So I remember, so like during the pandemic, I did a version of Not Sam wrestling on the WWE network. They had, like, reached out and said, hey, you have a studio in your home. We are trying to figure out what we're doing content-wise. Do you want to just produce a show for us? And I was like, well, what kind of show? And they were like, I don't know. You tell us.

And I was like, awesome deal. And so, like, I was like, I would like, it became this almost like a pseudo-variety show, but I would like write monologues, do interviews, do all this stuff, right? And, like, I had an interview that was set up for that week show. and the interview had to cancel and go like, I'll get you next week, by, blah, blah. I was like, okay, no problem.

But then I realized, like, this show had a deadline, and I'm missing a segment. And I go, what can I do? And I'm, like, looking through old, like, just watching wrestling and stuff like that, trying to get inspired to do something. And I was like, I know what I'll do. And I didn't want it to look like the rest of the show.

So I set up a second studio in that corner where all the boxes are over there in the basement. And I did a fantasy booking of what if Santino won the Royal Rumble that year? Wow. And I played it all the way through. And after I was done, I was like, in my head, I was like, man, Santino should have won that Royal Rumble.

He should have. And it's really interesting because, like, and I think that I'm sure, I'm not sure, obviously, but I would imagine that they didn't realize that when Santino jumped back in the ring, the crowd was like, this is what we want. Like, oh, my God, we're going to get to see it. Santino's going to win the Royal Rumble.

humble. And then he didn't and it was like, okay. Yeah, he had that moment and the crowd was behind him. Santino also had that moment where it looked like he was going to win Elimination Chamber. Yeah. And up to that point, no one had kicked out of the cobra with the sleeve on. So he hits Daniel Bryan with the cobra and it's like, this is it. Oh my God. Whoa. One, two, two point nine kick out. Oh. And Daniel Brian wins. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's got to be Alberto. I think so. I think so. What is the most annoying wrestling chant?

You know, the most annoying wrestling chant is very easy. It's the worst. We want tables is the most annoying, dumb wrestling chant that exists. And I think, you know, Bubba Ray Dudley takes this the wrong way. This is not anti-table. This is not anti-use of tables. It's certainly not anti-Dudleys, perhaps the greatest tag team that's ever existed in professional wrestling.

This is anti-the-execution of, We want tables by active wrestling fans. They will chant it in every match where tables may even be a slim possibility. Like, if it's a triple threat and they're not even really taking advantage of the no DQ, they'll figure out, oh, wait, this is a triple threat. Oh, wait, no DQ, we want tables, we want tables. And it's like, stop with the we want tables for several reasons. Number one, we know you want tables.

Everyone knows you want tables. There has never, in the history of professional wrestling, there has never been the use of a table where you go, boy, the fans didn't want a table. Like nobody's ever gone like a table. Boo, we don't want a table. Everybody has always wanted a table. So it goes without saying that you want a table, okay?

But understand, the tables come at the appropriate times. And when people are trying to tell a story in the ring that builds to a certain thing, And you're like, screw your story. We want a table spot now. We'll get to a table spot. And maybe there won't be a table spot in this match. But you know what? Maybe the reason there's not a table spot in this match

is because there's going to be a table spot two matches from now. And you can't do table spots in every single match. But what you could do is not chant we want tables and have it take away from what is going on in the match. You're absolutely right. It's disruptive. And there's no getting ready. And people go like this.

They go like this. They go, the whatchan is worse. The what chan is not worse. The what chant is hideous. It's terrible. But it's not worse because the what chant is avoidable. Stone Cold Steve Austin gave the formula in interviews previously to avoid the what chant, which is just change up your cadence.

That's it. Yeah. Don't leave these rhythmic gaps open for that what to hit. And you've seen people effectively do it. Yes. Lots of people. We want tables? Like the only way to get around it is to pull out a table.

And it's like, we're not pulling out of table right. now. What if they were to take it one step further and start booking the match? We want a suplex. Right, right. Reverse chin lock. Like, how about just like, like, follow the story. And now it's, now listen, if they're teasing a table spot. Yes. Then you start begging for tables. Of course. If the Dudley boys are out there. Right. By all means. But if you go to a rom-com, right? And you're going like, man, I hope that guy gets shot. And you're like, what? That's not this kind of movie at all. And then, like, at the end of the movie, you know, boy gets girl.

And you're like, yeah, but I thought he was going to get shot. That movie sucked. You're like, why did you think he was going to get shot? That's not, it was a rom-com. Why? Like, they're not doing that in this movie. I understand you. Like, they're not doing that in this movie.

It's not an action movie. So on the flip side. Okay. What's the best chant you like? What's your favorite chant? Um, the best chant. You know, I'm, you know, people think it's overused or whatever, but I like the appreciation. I don't mind the overdoing it with This is Awesome.

I don't mind the overdoing it with both these guys, both these guys. Like I don't, and I think that, you know. I love both these guys. That's fun. It's a great chant. My problem with This is awesome is not every match can have the This Is Awesome chance. Sometimes it should be this is very good. Yeah.

Like this is a very acceptable match. Yeah, this is acceptable. But I always interpreted, and maybe I'm wrong on this, I always interpreted this is awesome to be like, this is the best match of the night. Right. And perhaps they're referring to the sequence within the match. This is awesome.

The last three minutes have been, you know, just brilliant. I get that. But is every match awesome? No, no, it's not. I think it's just the de facto way that wrestling fans just let you know, hey, man, I'm just having a good time. Whoever wants to win, win.

But I'm just having a great time here watching. You guys do your thing. It's their pro wrestling version of the wave. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The pro wrestling version of the wave is the beach ball. No, we don't like the beach ball. No, we don't like the beach ball. Cizaro hates the beach ball.

I think a lot of people hate the beach ball. Yeah, no, beach ball is no Bueno. No, no, this is awesome. It's just a general appreciation. I've always loved both these guys and fight forever. Like, it's just so good, like, just don't end. Just keep doing this thing. Yeah, but there are times, too.

I mean, the same way with this is awesome, where they're chanting, fight forever. And I go, I mean, I don't need an end now, but, you know, I mean, we got, places to be. I got to get home. I'm hungry. Wake up early tomorrow. I got radio in the morning.

Fight for 15 more minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? That's a good one. Time limit, draw, five more minutes.

That's a great one. Oh, love that chance. Time limit draw five more minutes because the last thing you want is like, it's a time limit draw and everyone's like,

fine. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we've seen enough. Yeah, we got it. I've seen that in indie shows where it's like, this match is a draw.

And it's like, yeah, all right. Okay. We'll go on to the next one then. Yeah, yeah. Get them out of the ring. And then one of the rest was like, I think you mean five more minutes.

Yeah. Who wants five more minutes? No, it's fine. We saw it. We saw you both agree. Yeah. See you guys next month. It's a tie.

We're fine with that. Yeah. No, I like general appreciation. Yeah. Grad it too. Grat it too. Who's the best wrestler to never win a world championship? Um, to never win a world championship, period, or a WWE world?

I'd say period. That's tough, because my... You can give me your other answer. So I would, I'm going to say, Mr. Perfect. I believe Kurt Henning won the AWA World Championship. I could be mistaken. But in terms of like the big WWE, WCW, like, he never was world champion. And I mean, especially that WWE Mr. Perfect run, I mean, is just so incredible.

And I don't even know if I fully appreciated how good he was from like in WWE from like 89 to 91 maybe. Like that perfect run is unbelievable. And I always like watch that go, man, I guess he, you know, he was. injured, he never quite got back to that level, but I just think, like, if you go back now, like, you could implant like late 80s, early 90s, Kurt Henning

into WWE now, and he'd be the best restaurant on the roster. Yeah. Like, and it wouldn't be like, oh, he kind of wrestles a more dated style. It'd be like, no, no, no, that's like his finish was a fisherman suplex. If you had a guy who's finished was a fisherman suplex, the Chad Gable could get away the fisherman suplex finish. Yeah.

Cheggables the best. Yeah. So, like, yeah, I think Mr. Perfect is my answer. I just can't believe Scott Hall. Like, I can't believe that. That's wild, yeah. Yeah, Scott Hall. Like, Scott Hall to not win a world championship is crazy.

And Scott Hall and Mr. Perfect were friends. Yeah. But, like, yeah, that is crazy. And maybe it was because Scott Hall never really conducted himself. Like, he was always more, it seemed like, in any conversation I ever had with him in any sort of interview that he ever did, he was always more business than ego.

And so like the idea of like, you know, if he was getting paid the same, it's all good. And maybe that's part of why he was never the champion. But like, yeah, the fact that two months into his WWE run, he was main eventing Royal Rumble with Brett the Hitman Heart. And like there was this idea of like, what if Razor won?

Yeah. Like wouldn't that be cool if Razor won? Imagine if Razor beat Brett and then macho man won the Royal Rumble. And your WrestleMania 9 main event is macho versus Razor. That'd be sick. In hindsight, that's one you look at and you go, we got robbed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, I'm glad Brett was champion.

I mean, Brett was going to lose it at WrestleMania 9 anyway, I guess. But like, yeah, Razor is a great answer. Have you figured out, you're doing some stuff with WWE now. Have you figured out who might be behind El Grande Americano? No. I'm totally clueless. and it's very frustrating. I mean...

I have a theory. Oh. We haven't seen Omas on TV in a long time. Okay. That's not a bad... It makes sense. It does make sense.

Think about it. It makes sense. Because he is a deceivingly athletic guy. Absolutely. Yeah. Now, Chad Gable said on Raw Recap that, like, he has tapes of Grasne Americano

from the 1960s, wrestling in Mexico. Wow. Yeah, which I've never seen. I have a lot of VHS tapes. I never saw any of those. But to be fair, a lot of my luchotapes are more in the 90s.

So maybe I wouldn't have seen him. The same person or just the same mask carried on? No, it's not L.E. Hodeau, Grandiniricano. Wow. Yeah, this is, we're not witnessing L.E. Hodel or... How old is he? Oh, I don't know. I mean, that mask makes you ageless, I think.

Yeah. Yeah, but it is amazing what you can do. He's in phenomenal shape, too. Unbelievable shape, man. Unbelievable. Yeah, it must be on that testosterone or something. I think there was a... Because I've heard these crazy rumors that people think it's Chad Gable.

And I'm like, it's silly, right? Yeah. But I think there was a missed opportunity to put them on opposing brackets for King of the Ring. Just to see what happens. Just to see. Yeah. And even if they don't win their qualifier matches, just to see. Just to see.

Yeah. Could we possibly get them in the finals? Yeah. I did like that Chad Gable answered why Grande-American had boots that said Chad Gable on them. he loaned him his boots. I mean, what a generous guy. Yeah, he loves Americano. What a generous guy?

Yeah, absolutely. The airline lost his luggage. What was he supposed to do? Russell Barefoot? He can't wrestle barefoot. No, come on. No, he's Grosndy Americano. Chelsea Green was trying to take credit for those boots.

Because they said CG. Yeah, I guess that's true. I guess I didn't know she and Grondy Americano had the same size feet. Who knows? But I don't know. I'm not measuring feet either. That's not what I'm into. Me neither.

Okay, so we don't know. That's for Wiki feet to figure out. It'll be very interesting. one day if Al Grande-Arikano does get unmasked. I hope not, just because it's deep in the lucha tradition. That's true. You know, so disrespectful. It was weird that Chad Gable wrestled at Worlds Collide,

and Grandi-Miricano wrestled money in the bank. Like you would think. Not the opposite. Yeah, that's interesting. That's true. Maybe it's part of a talent exchange. Chad Gable hates Luchadors, though. I forgot about that.

Right? So him being at Worlds Collide makes sense. Yeah. No, you're right. Trying to defeat the Luchador. That's right. That's true. That checks out. All of the logic. Yeah. It makes sense.

Absolutely. I've kept you for so long here. Thank you, sir. Hey, of course. And I might as well ask you the question I ask everybody at the end because I am the most, it's the gratitude era. What was my gimmick that we came up with at the start? The most grateful interviewer? Yeah, yeah.

Wrestling's the most grateful podcaster. Sure. We've got to come up with something way better. Wrestling's most grateful. Yeah, that really does. You seem like you haven't accomplished that much. Like, you're just happy to be there, which isn't really fair to you. We don't need to talk about the fact that I've won four Emmys.

No. No, he's just happy to be there. Two billion views on my YouTube channel. No, no, no. No, just like looking at those charts. Like, no, no, I'm just grateful. I'm just happy to be here. Yeah, you know, sometimes I turn heel for, you know, brief moments and I get mad that people don't hit subscribe when they watch these videos.

They don't? Two billion. Two billion with a B. So you have two billion subscribers? You think so? You don't have two billion subscribers. Close, but no. I don't know what's going on.

Could you imagine watching a video? Freeloaders. Could you imagine watching a video like this all the way until the end? Right. And not liking it or not subscribing? I've never watched a video that I didn't like and subscribe. Just by every video I've ever watched, I've subscribed to the channel and like it. Same.

Yeah. My subscriptions are like crazy. Because I understand as a creator how much that one small, menial task to me as a consumer. Yeah. Pushing a button. It's all I'm subscribed to everything. How much that means to the creator.

Yeah. So I digress back from the heel turn to being baby face. What are three things that you're grateful for, Sam? Well, I'm grateful that Sirius XM decided to launch a 24-7 wrestling channel. Congratulations. Has anybody ever turned your gratitude thing into a plug? All the time. Oh, they do that, really?

What a bunch of scumbags? Christian Cage was like, three things. I'm grateful for, me myself and I. That's sick. All right, Christian Cage. I mean, if I're a Christian Cage, I be grateful for me, myself, and I as well. Yes, I'm very grateful that Sirius XM decided to launch Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7, and that they've decided to take on Not Sam Wrestling, which still, by the way, exists and will continue

to exist as a podcast. Same place you find Insight, you can find Not Sam Wrestling, the same way you have for the last 10 years. Nothing changes. 11 years almost. Nothing changes there. But not saying wrestling live is now part of the serious XM pro wrestling nation lineup. So every day at noon Eastern, I'll be on there live. I think it's

channel 156 it's going to be. And yeah, we'll be able to talk wrestling every single day for two hours on serious XM. Congratulations. Well, people will be calling in? They'll be call in. There'll be calls in. There'll be guests. I'm sure there will be an invite waiting for you. Oh, my, accepted. Yes, great. I'm in.

Great. Okay, I'm grateful you accepted my invitation. That's two gratefuls. Wow. Yeah, yeah. So, and then a third thing. Yeah, three things. I'm grateful you came over, man.

Wow. Hey, how's that? Thanks. How's that? It's great to hang out with you and there just happens to be cameras around. That's all we're doing. That's really is. We're just hanging in the basement.

Yeah. I feel like if we both grew up in the same country, from Canada, right? If we grew up in the same town, this would have just been like every Monday. Yeah. Let's just hanging out. Yeah.

Instead, Morant took your spot. Now Megan Morant is over here. Isn't that wild though? Like that, okay, how about this? I'm grateful for this that like, I don't think that people have really wrapped their heads around the fact that somehow WWE, which like for a long time had this reputation of being,

like almost like a like big brother like this big corporate thing like somehow we've gotten to a point where they're like hey our post raw show the big like podcast that we're going to launch all other podcasts around sam and megan are going to we watch raw my house like we that the living room that you were just in yeah that's where we watch raw every single Monday and then we come downstairs into my basement and we talk about raw and interview somebody and and that's raw recap. Wow. And the fact that like

WWE programming has evolved to that point where like somebody like me can just come along and like do my schick in my own house? Yeah. I'm grateful for that. What a time to be alive. Like you and I started our broadcasting careers right around the same time.

Sure. And it did not look like this. Not at all. No. No. It looked like begging and scratching to get an internship somewhere. Yeah.

to hopefully get enough experience to then turn that into a job in a smaller market or on a smaller station or something and then work your way up. Yeah. And instead, like, you know, and you obviously figured it out with insight. But like you figure out that if you can, you can, you have the power to create your own brand. Yeah. If you're willing to put the work into it, and I mean, as I don't have to tell you, it's years and years and years of putting work into it and a lot of work. Yeah. over the course of years, then you'll find people who see that vision and go like, no, we appreciate

what you do. And we'd like to kind of make it a part of what we do as well, which is why like, you know, working with serious and working with WWE is like, I mean, it's literally a dream come true. I love that. And there's something about hard work that other people can just see it. Other people can go, yeah, I can tell how much work you put into this. I hope so. Some people, I think, just think I'm a weasel.

Are you a weasel? I don't know. That's up for anybody else to figure out. I didn't name myself that, so I guess not. Also, why is there a Slammy behind you? Okay, see? I was waiting for somebody to ask about this. It says, for John Sino.

Okay, nobody's asked about it. It's been here, and I just left it here like an Easter egg, and nobody said anything. You're getting another scoop on insight, my friend. Bring it. Okay, so this year at the Slammy Awards, Megan Morant and I presented the Slamy, I believe it was for OMG Moment the year. John Sina won the Slammy Award. The, the, the, the, the teleprompter said, John Sina is not here. And instead of just saying John Sina is not here to accept his award,

I said, so we'll accept it on his behalf. And like, you know, was like, and everybody was like cheering that John Sina won. I said, boo him. He wants to ruin wrestling and he didn't even show up. We're going to accept the award on his behalf. And I go, okay, well, now I said that. And then, like, I was talking to WWE, and I was like, hey, guys, listen, I accepted the award on his behalf. You wanted a business for yourself. Right. I go, I should have the slammy, like the statue. Like, I accepted on his behalf, I should have the statue.

And they were like, you know, I mean, the logic is flawless. They were like, you're right. I go, I know I'm right. I accepted it. You can go back and watch the tape. And so they're like, okay, here's the slammy. And so I would like to say that I'm, this is. is John Cena Slamy.

And whenever he wants it, I'm not stealing anything. Whenever John Sina wants it, it's here in the studio. And you can just come by. John Sina has to come to your house to come get it. Well, that's where the Slamy is.

Whenever he wants to come by and grab it, I got it for him. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, wow. Like, if I had something of yours and I was like, you just come by whenever and grab it, I'll give it to you today. Well, we're friends. So I'd be happy to come over.

So? I got John Cena slammy. The last time you did an interview with John Cena, it was at the Sirius XM Studio. Right. It was a great interview, too. Thank you very much. I had a great time with him.

Let's mix it up. Do you think John Cena's going to come to your house? If he wants a slammy. Doesn't he have several slammies? Not this one. Not this one. He doesn't have a slammy for this run. And by the way,

should be the last slam he's ever nominated for, right? Oh, yeah. Don't you think this will probably be the last slammy John Cena ever wins? If he's retiring, it'll be the last slammy he ever wins. Well, when does the voting cycle

begin and end? That's a good call. I think there's probably one more round. I'll say it's the last one. Sure. It is for now. It is for now. As far as we know,

this is the last slammy John Cena ever wins. Amazing. Imagine not having it if you're John Cena. That would stink. Yeah. I wouldn't want that. Anyway, it's here. Well, thanks for hanging out.

It's here. Well, there we go. A lot of hot takes in there. Always so fun to have Sam on the show. Love this conversation. And now that this episode's done, go check out his podcast. Not Sam Wrestling.

Give it a listen wherever you're listening to this right now. And again, Pro Wrestling Nation 24-7 is now live on Sirius XM Channel 156. Incredible. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you listen to this episode and tag us. He's at Not Sam Wrestling. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And we'll wrap it up with this quote from Confucius.

A man is great not because he hasn't failed. A man is great because he hasn't failed. A man is great because failure hasn't stopped him. Be great and be grateful, my friends. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got the Fallen Angel, Christopher Daniels, a legendary conversation with him on Thursday. We'll see you right back here for that one.

Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome

Show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.