Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Road Dogg Compares The Attitude Era & Triple H Era, DX, Smackdown, R-Truth

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Tickets are on sale now for INSIGHT LIVE in Toronto & Las Vegas with VIP Meet & Greet! Oh you didn't know?! Road Dogg (@BrianRDJames) is a retired professional wrestler and WWE Hall of Famer. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Indianapolis to discuss his WWE and TNA careers as a wrestler, what his role is now behind the scenes in WWE, the biggest differences between The Attitude Era and the current era, being a part of D-Generation X and invading WCW with a tank, the dumpster segment with Cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie, his partnership with K-Kwik [R-Truth], why he thought CM Punk hated him, his battles with addiction, being the head writer of SmackDown, the storyline he pushed that never went through and more! Quote I'm thinking about: "Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced." — James Baldwin Please support our sponsors! PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insight to get 10% off your order of Mitopure! VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.com ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at https://bluechew.com RHONE: Rhone’s premium performance clothing is made to move you. Use code CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV MANSCAPED: Get 20% off plus free shipping when you use the code CHRISVAN at https://manscaped.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Oh, hello, my friends, and welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for being with us wherever you are in the world. Whatever you're doing right now, whether you're walking the dog, you're driving to work, or you're working out, whatever it is. I appreciate you for being with us. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on.

the planet, hit a Hurrican Rana on that follow button on Spotify or Apple so you don't miss out on any of the interviews that we have coming up. And now I'm thinking about how someone's going to try to do a Hurricane Rana on their phone. And it's just, I just can't picture it. But you'll figure it out. I know you will figure it out. Oh, you didn't know. So good to have Road Dog back on the show. He's hilarious. And I just, I love his perspective online. and his career and wrestling in general. And I should point out that this was recorded during Royal Rimal Weekend in Indianapolis.

This was before it was announced that he would be the new co-lead writer of SmackDown. But we did talk about when he was previously the writer on Smackdown. And I asked him, like, what was the storyline you tried to push through that you thought would be amazing that just didn't work out?

And his answer is going to shock you. It had WrestleMania implicated. as they say. And I just think you'll be surprised by it. But it was great to talk to him about his Hall of Fame career in the ring and everything he's done since. And I just appreciate his honesty and his self-awareness. That's a big theme throughout this. He just has so much self-awareness about the mistakes that he's made and the things that he's learned from it. And I learned quite a bit through this conversation. So I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. a screenshot. Let us know you're listening. Tag us online. He's at Brian R.D. James on Twitter.

He's at BG. James on Instagram, although it looks like he hasn't posted there since 2022. So maybe you can tag him on there still, but I don't feel like he's going to see it or repost it. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, I'm not going to do the whole thing. You know it, though. Please welcome the Hall of Famer, the road dog jesse james did you ever uh you ever heard any of that stuff any of the early uh three live crew we'll get into that let's talk a little three live crew that might have been the best mic check i've ever heard okay okay what was that i don't it was the intro to uh to one of our entrance music

three live crew was myself and ron killings and conan and uh and one of the entrance music was uh mike check mike check give me to mike one two two, three, you got the truth, K dog, and B.G. And we do the damn thing because we can. And I am the suntan Superman. That was true part. Yeah, it was the whole, the whole song is awesome that we, we actually wrote it and performed it. And, uh, that lives. It's worth a Google. That lives out there. It's worth of Google. Look, with a career like yours, everything lives. It's all out there. Yeah. Yeah. Thank goodness. Uh, anyway. For better or not all of it lives. Do you want to keep the glasses on your head?

I do. And you know why? Because it's, it's my gimmick now. I'm like an old man. You know what I mean? It's like, you're the old guy that, well, here's the deal. If I want to read anything, I'm going to need them. So I don't look forward to when that day happens. It's going to happen. So I'll tell you a quick story. Me and Billy Gunn, get into a hotel room after it's, it's been a while since we've seen each other and we're getting back together. We're both newly sober and we're both on a, you know, autograph signing deal or whatever. So we get at our hotel and we share a hotel. tell we always did we were just bros like that so uh i said god darn it's hot in here turn the AC on and he goes you turn it on and so i said okay but we both put our readers on and turned around right at the thermostat and i just looked over where there was the new age outlaws with readers on look at each other and i just thought here we go 69 degrees of course that's the thing about aging though right is like you never think it's going to happen to you well and it does and truth be told right now I've never been happier in my life inside my head and my heart. I don't know. I like, I like getting old. I really do. It's, I'm coming into my own. I'm learning more about myself.

And I don't know if you knew this or not Chris, but when I was young, I was a blithering friggin idiot. And I am not far from that to this day. And so it's, it's, it's fun, man. It's, it's fun being here, seeing my children are grown now and they have children. I came from what told you Orlando earlier. My children and my grandchildren live in Orlando, so I got to visit them this week. I don't know, man. It's the best time of my life. D.X was pretty cool. Yeah. Pawpaw's cooler. Are you at the point in your life now where you're able to look back and go, man, that was, that was pretty amazing what I got to do. Yes, but I've been there for a minute. I've been there for a minute. I've been there for a minute as far as realizing, man, I achieved a dream that millions and millions of people dream.

I had a leg up, and I know that's not fair, you know, to everybody. But I pray I carried the name, even though I didn't have the name Armstrong on my jersey. I pray I did the family well in representing it. but I also feel like I stood on my own two feet too. And that feels really good. Well, I'll tell you what I did when I did my podcast for a minute after WWE fired me for the fourth time. But also rehired you? Yes, yes, for the fourth time.

No, oh, CT, I forgot what we were talking about. Your podcast. Yes. Yes. I learned that DX was only like a 18-month run. Like it was not this great, you know what I mean? The attitude era was like a meteor that flew by and it flew by really fast and you didn't, I thought it was like a five-year deal.

It was like, no, in 16, 18 months, DX was split up and then putting back together again and all. It was so crazy how fast it happened and how high it went. At least it wasn't like the NWO where there were 914 members. Yes, yes. But honestly, we would have taken. Virgil in a heartbeat. What happened to your podcast? So once they hired me back, it was kind of the task that I was tasked with.

Sometimes I pop myself. The task that I was tasked with demanded more time of me. You know what I mean? It just demanded that I be on, and last year especially some things up and down throughout, but I was on the road last year. I made every television show. I made every PLE. I was in the office.

I was on live events. I was moving last year. This year, so far in the first quarter, just doing more about like content creating and a lot of opportunities coming up for all these different platforms that are purchasing live action content.

You know what I mean? So we got the LFG that you're probably seen on A&E plugged. We're doing that, which is a lot of. love to talk about that for a second if you don't mind. Of course. Have you seen it? I haven't seen it yet. So LFG, let's go. And I edited myself. But it's four coaches, and they each have four individuals underneath them.

And the coaches are the undertaker, Bubba Dudley, Mickey James, and Booker T. And so this is literally at the ground level of these people learning to become professional wrestlers, sports entertainers, and they got Undertaker teaching them how to do it. And so it's the most access that I've ever seen given, because it's uncomfortable for me, an old rassler, to give this much access to the public. But man, we are giving away the farm, and it is eye-opening for me to sit back there and watch every episode and hear Bubba Dudley talked to some young talent. And I think to myself, you know, I was lucky.

I had my family to do that for me. But holy mackerel, to have Bubba Dudley, the most decorated one half of the most decorated tag team in the history of professional wrestling. The Undertaker, Mickey James, Booker T, these people, you're sitting under the learning tree of these people and you're in the infancy of your career, man. I get goosebumps talking about it because it really is super exciting

to see, man, you get to know the undertaker as a dude just talking to another dude about wrestling. And it's so, it's so cool and the access is so unlimited that A&E's got a hit on their hand. I can guarantee you that. With the area you came up in, stuff was still guarded. Oh, man. Yeah. Do you feel like they're giving away too much now? Look, I've thought, asked that same question to myself a million times because it's, it really you the wrong way as soon as you hear like, oh, wait, we're going to say that. Like, you're going to let that cat out of the bag. And it's, you know, the finish or whatever we're going to talk about.

At the end of the day, I think the people, the people, the WW Universe wrestling fans, they know what we're doing. They know what's up. And I think they're okay with us not insulting their intelligence, but also not just go and here's how you make a blade. And we don't do that anymore anyway, but, but, like, I don't think they mind us keeping some things, uh, to ourselves, but they don't want their,

their intelligence insulted. I don't think fans realize that not everything's being told to them. Like, I think that in this day and age, people think they, they know everything. They're so smart because of the internet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then there's some nice little surprises that come out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, look, that's what I love about. hunter i i i called him i've been calling him hunter for 25 30 years now that's just what i call him and i and i always will he has such a vision um on a granular level and at a 30 000 foot level too like he his vision is so right now and five years from now at the same time and to me that's incredible because I'm right now in the fighting hole. How do we get out of this room? What do me and you got to do to survive? I'm that guy.

Man, I don't know. He's just above and beyond anything I've ever seen. And I've been around wrestling on my life. So I've seen some smart people and been around some smart people. I never seen nobody. And this is me kissing his ass, but that ass deserves to be kissed. He has taken this industry into a stratosphere. that that was not even thought about like a holy mackerel and it's his his vision yeah yeah uh we all got

here the same way and we all come up but man he has stepped out in front not only was he and again this is me kissing his butt but his his tush is to be is to be kissed he can not only do it in the ring i'll never forget the best thing i've ever seen in my life was Atlanta i was sober one year and him an undertaker hell in the cell and there and there he's got him in the thing and he's clawing for the for the uh the sledgehammer and i'll never i'm a i've been wrestling 30 years i get caught in my goosebumps talking about it i were never i'll never forget that as long as i live like that was the most incredible thing i'd ever seen in a wrestling match and i just think he can do that and think of that stuff and then also think of oh we got to

come up with a penta entrance you know what i mean with a pentrance with a pentrance Pentrance. Yeah, I just came up with that. See, I'm the right now guy. No, but yeah, he's, look, I love me and him. I've talked about it many of times. We love to create together. We love to have a new talent and come through the curtain and go, what can we do with that entrance that you were talking about? What kind of light can we shine on him? What kind of smoke can we throw? What do we do? And I know the people that work behind the scenes are like, Jim, any Christmas, here they go again. Penton's entrance has everything.

Oh, yeah. It's lights and it's flames and it's this rotating sparks or whatever that is. It should be, right? It's what it should be. Incredible. There are levels to this stuff. Roman Rain said that in a promo. And he was so right, man.

There are levels to this stuff. And this company does it at a level that will never be matched by. And that's not a cut down to anybody. That's just a fact. secretary it's the greatest racehorse to ever run like there's still racehors is being trained right now that haven't broke his records you know what i mean like some things are just the best and that's that did you see this in triple h 25 years ago did you see this when you were working with him back then so i i know would be the quick answer however i did see uh i never saw him as my boss

but I saw him as he was going to be somebody in the wrestling world because I saw how he thought. We worked a bunch of you. You've probably seen Brian Armstrong versus terrorizing, you know what I mean, a hundred times on WCW. And I knew then. I didn't have a clue what I was doing in there.

And he was a thoughtful putting stuff together in his head. And I was like, yeah, let's do that. And so, yeah, I knew he was going to be somebody and be something just because of the way he looked and the way he carried him. himself. And like I said, his brain. What is the role that you have with WWE now? I have no idea. I don't, I could, I could care less to say the truth. No. So, so really, I'm still the creative, in charge of creative of live events. But now we have scaled live events

back domestically, especially this coming year. We're going to find out where our sweet spot is, but a lot of overseas live events coming up this year, there's huge money there. You know what I mean? The business side of things right now are so far beyond what they have ever been before. Even attitude, all that stuff is just putting to shame what the business is doing now. With Hunter at the Helmsley. I'm sorry. I'm dad. I'm a granddad.

Man, that's a level above dad jokes. Yeah. Granddad jokes. There are levels to this. Yeah. Hunter at the Helmsley. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

That worked. It kind of worked. That girl back there laughed. She did. Yeah. But with Hunter at the helm, things have stepped up. Who. Man, it's just such a different environment.

It's, I'll call them old regime and new regime. Old regime had a problem with stifling creativity. Like sometimes the, you know, and I'll say this. Sometimes it was better to know that. I knew who I answered to. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying that I don't now because I still do now. But there was a time when the void happened that was like, oh, who's my, who do I answer to?

And so there are negatives and positives about old and new regime. Man, new regime is like Google. Like we got ping pong tables in the production meeting room. You know what I mean? We don't really. That would be. It would be. So please, if you could get ping pong and.

Pepsi machine. But I don't know, it's just, it's creative, and he opens the floor, and it's nobody gets shut down. And, yeah, it's just, it's free range creativity, man. And it's, it's incredible. So how do you balance Hunter was your buddy, still is your buddy? Yeah. You ran with him for years and years and years.

That was your boss. So where's the balance? He used to drive, he would drive, China and him in the front seat, and I would smoke a joint, try to blow it out the back so it wouldn't get in their hair or anything, you know? So yeah, we've been up and down the road. But the truth is, when he became the guy and I became a guy under him, he said, look, you can come to me and say and ask anything and do anything. Just no. Sometimes I'm going to say no to you.

And I said, okay. You know what I mean? Like I can handle that. I don't have to manage or balance that because he, he's a solid. leader. He's a solid dude. And so there's, he doesn't let you. You know what I mean? It's almost like you you just be you and he won't let you get out of line. You know what I mean? And it's not like he'll put you back in it. It's weird. It's weird how, what a solid, uh, head on his shoulders, man. I don't know where, where it came from. But, but the bit, man, he's, yeah, he's a smartest dude I've ever met

in the business. Like, and that's, I mean, to the business. He might not can do algebra. But when it comes to wrestling, when it comes to what matters. Yeah, he's the guy. I have never used algebra one time in my life. There's a lot of things we learned in school. As soon as they started adding letters, I quit. Yeah.

I'll, you know, hypotenuse. I don't know. I'll never use that. I think that's a baby platypus. You're right. I think it is. Remember when we were in school, and I know we went to school in different times,

but they'd say you'd never have a calculator in your pocket. Yes. Well, I also remember. I was just watching Nat Geo upstairs. And I also remember them telling us like, oh, they just discovered this at 16, 19, or wherever it was. Like, okay, there's a stonehenge in like New Hampshire. You know what I mean? That's like 40,000 years old.

Remember when they told us Pluto was a planet? Yes. Feels so bad for Pluto. I know. Bless Pluto. Poor Pluto. Neutored Pluto. So what's a typical day look like for you?

Thank God it's not. a nine to five or anything but but it's it's a lot of like to tomorrow i'll i'll be there all day i'll help with rehearsals that once the show starts i'm pretty much useless uh like tits only when the show starts like tits on a boar hog no uh sorry sorry for that one oh that was you need a podcast again just sounded nice yeah they're good the mike definitely picked that they're good yeah wasn't paranormal activity that was my knee um anyway What were we talking about? When you get to the show, you're pretty much useless.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I'll help with rehearsals. We'll go through the production meeting. I'll pipe up if I have to. You know what I mean? Like, he handles everything. And he has the production meeting. It's basically to tell you, hey, here's what we're going to do. But do any of you guys have better ideas?

But also the producers will have sent in the producers being Chris Park. Bobby Root. Yeah. Shane Helms. Yes, yes. All of the greats. We've forgotten a whole bunch of names. Jason Jordan.

Yeah, nor Molly Holly, the whole gang. And to be honest, I've been there 15 years now on the other side of the fence. I've never seen a better team of producers, like these producers and the upper echelon roll it downhill often to them because they are a good group of folks and they know our industry and they are putting great matches together with our talent. So I've never seen a better group of producers. So, yeah, we'll get with them. We'll feel them out.

They'll send in feedback if they think, hey, this feels weird. Like this, you know, and sometimes Hunter will go like, oh, that's a much better idea than what we had, you know, and change it right there on the spot. So it's an open forum of ideas. And I think that's the way you end up with the best ones, you know. You were there during the attitude era. and it was hot.

It's hot now. It was high. Oh, would you say hot? My bad. My bad. What's the biggest difference between then and now? I think the talent, to be quite honest with you, the talent is a different animal, man. So when I was, I'll tell you this quick story, and I've told it a million times, but when

Edge and Christian came in, I used to scoff at them because they were like on time and healthy and like slumber and, you know what I mean? like they were doing exactly what a person in their line of work should be doing. Yeah. And I was still party animal. You know what I mean? So I scoffed at them and thought like, well, now that's what the athlete is because that's what the athlete has to be.

You know what I mean? You have to be that dedicated to your body and to this field and all that. To be that, I would have never made it today. I wouldn't have made it. Well, I mean, look at me for the love of Pete. all these guys, we just saw Carmelo Hayes, and they're all chiseled out of brick, right? They look like Greek gods.

It's almost like the stories you would hear about, like the baseball players playing drunk, or playing hungover. And then you'd see someone like Tom Brady who has a coach specifically for, like, stretching him. You know, like guys are spending a million dollars on just bodywork. The name of this episode should be levels.

Levels. Yeah, because there's levels to that. Tom Brady is the goat. He had that. Babe Ruth was the goat, but he's also, drunk, you know what I mean? Possibly. Allegedly, I don't know.

Who knows? I'm sure he was hammered. Probably. I want to think he was hammered. Maybe. And still hitting dingers. Could you imagine if he wasn't? Yeah, I would be upset.

Oh, sorry. But he's also playing against... It's like finding out Sergeant wasn't a Marine. Oh. Does that rub you the wrong way? No. Well, he did what I found out about it, but it doesn't happen. That's a character, right?

100%. I also know the human being. You know what I mean? And so that makes... And you find out Yoko Zuna's Samoan. Wait a minute. This is fixed. What?

Since when? Since when? My dad did not tell me that part. It's just funny to me that there is a certain group of people that will just look at the ratings and go, how dare you say this is bigger than the attitude era? Yeah. Well, people don't watch TV like they used to. No, at all, right?

Yeah. Like my cable went out for like a month. I didn't even know it because we were... You still have cable? Yeah, exactly. That's a legitimate question. Yeah. Like, you still have cable.

And so it's, look, you're not going to, I don't know. I love the fans that go on the internet and love what we do. And look, I love it. I love the fans, period. I'll say that. But man, the internet gives them a platform where you said it earlier. And this isn't the wrestling fans. This is guilty of culture in general.

We all think we know. everything. You know what I mean? I've come to the point in my life now, 55 years old, where I'll literally say something to my wife and then go, honey, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't even know why I said that. And it's the truth. I don't know what the F I'm talking about, but I will gladly and confidently tell you some shit that doesn't matter at all. And I'm sorry, I just cursed. That's fine. Pardon my whatever you want. Pardon my French. We're going to be overseas a lot. You can say whatever you'd like. But where did the self-awareness come from, for you where you were able to go, yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Sobriety. Like, and it's, and it didn't happen with the, I've been sober 15 years now. And so, yeah, thank you. I, I did it to save my life. Uh, because I, and I was, when I got sober, I was just done. I was done living literally. Like I wanted to kill myself, but I was scared my kids are going to find me with my brains blown out in the, in the lawnmower shed.

You know what I mean? Like, that's a real. That's real. That really went through my mind a lot of times. You actually thought about that. Oh, a hundred times, literally a hundred times. But because I was on a vicious cycle of wake up and do drugs and wake up and do drugs and wake up and do drugs. And it was like, oh, God, I don't want to live this way anymore.

This ain't how my mom and dad raised me. You know what I mean? You didn't see a way out. No, I didn't know that there was one. And at that point, I thought, well, one of these handfuls of pills is going to kill me. And when is that going to happen? You know what I mean? And so, look, I don't know.

I don't know what happened. Finally, I was just my brother. We were on a drive. We came from a show. I was hammered on Xanax. And he just talked to me and I just cried and broke down. And the next day I called this. I wasn't working for this company, but the next day I called this company.

And a certain lady I knew to call and I called her. And I was in rehab the next day. And that was 15 years ago. But even then, one of my biggest fears, today is not being self-aware. That's probably my biggest fear. And I know I'm not. I know I say things, you know, and people go, I know,

I just feel like I'm not fully self-aware. Man, I want to be. I don't want to be. I want to know my motives. I want to question my motives. I question my motives. I'll be honest with you about something. I question my motives about doing this interview because I said,

why do I want to do you called me and I jumped at it I was like excited and I told you earlier off screen it was for me it's for my ego it's for but talk about how cool I was for a minute you know what I mean let me be back in front of the camera for a second I did and so I had to sit there and think about is that the right thing is what's wrong with that that's where I ended that's this is where I ended up you know what I mean I did I said what's wrong with that I don't I'm not the I'm not the guy that needs my name at the credits at the end of the show. I, if I contribute somehow and the show's cool,

cool, the show's cool. But this was a moment from, I'm enamored by you and your stardom and how far you've come and what you're doing. And so I thought, man, he asked me to sit down with him. I'm honored, but I'm also in it for selfish reasons to try to stay relevant for no reason at all,

you know? Well, thank you for the kind words. Dude you, I've seen pictures of you with everybody. when you were a kid and now here you are. And did you set all this stuff up too? Like you did all that stuff yourself. That's how you, that's how it works. Well, I didn't realize that. You should have seen all the suitcases we had to travel here with. Like, yeah, I walked in. You did all this stuff. You made it happen. Kudos to you, man. Thank you. Because I imagine you're sitting in a seat

that a million people would love to sit in too. Not right now, for instance, but maybe when like Randy Orton's here. That, that is hopefully going to happen at some point this year. I always say the best thing about podcasting is anybody can do it. Yeah. And the worst thing about podcasting is anybody can do it. Amen. That's both sound. And when the barrier of entry is like turn on a camera and turn on a mic, great. That's awesome. I love that anybody can do it. Yeah. But now we're 700 and something episodes into this and it's like consistency is key. Yeah. Yes. Yes, it is. It's the key to success. But it's interesting with what you were saying, not every wrestler gets that level of self-awareness. A lot of wrestlers just want to play the greatest hits until they can't play the greatest hits anymore.

And that's sad, right? And you see it and it's sad. And so, look, I didn't want to. I went to them in 2015 when me and Billy won the titles again. And then we were going to drop. The whole reason was to drop them to the Uso's. It wasn't like a, because we were worthy of the tag championships or anything. It was all to give it to the next, you know, to pay it forward.

And couldn't have paid it forward to. to two greater guys. But even then I went and said, hey, I was literally producing a match in my road dog outfit because I had a match in two segments. You know what I mean?

So it got to be, and I said, hey, I don't want to wrestle anymore. I just said, I'm good. You know what I mean? Like,

I'm good here. I like the job I was doing. I was at the time, I don't know if I was writing for SmackDown yet, but I was on the writing team, connected to the writing team. And I'll tell you the truth. Chris, I've been out, walked down that ramp at WrestleMania, Royal Rumbles, the whole deal.

I've done it all, Madison Square Garden. I've walked in the aisles. I've done the, had the matches, and a nervous wreck. I hate it. It makes me so nervous to go out there and like every night I would go, Billy, I don't know what I'm going to say, and he would just go, shut up and hit me and get out, you know, push me out there. Like, he was the tough love guy. And because I was going to be fine, like I was going to go.

Like I was going to go out there and say whatever and it was going to be fine. But I was, I'm in my head, man. I'm a big in my head guy. However, writing this show brought me more reward than performing. Is it because you didn't have to deal with the nerves of being out in front of the bright lights? Probably. And truth be told, I hadn't thought about that at all until just now. as far as the nerves part and all that.

But what I really love was having my fingerprints, and this sounds cocky and arrogant, and I don't mean it to, but to have my salt bay on a WrestleMania, like a show, like two nights, you know what I mean? And I'm talking from entrance order to,

and I'm not saying I came up with that. I'm saying as I, but I was in on that part. You know what I mean? And like, holy mackerel, to sit in on those meetings and to be a part of the creating and to have ideas of what if we interrupted our music with it. You know what I mean? Or whatever.

And stuff like that comes to fruition. And you go, holy mackerel, that's awesome. I didn't just have an eight-minute match where, you know what I mean? I got kicked in the nads by Billy or something. This whole thing was ours. And we made it. And it's hugely successful and look at it now, you know. So that's just really rewarding.

Did you come to a point earlier in your career where you went, I don't know if I want to do this before, were you ever faced with that? No, I always wanted to, I always wanted to be a wrestler until I became a writer for a wrestling show. And then I learned, oh, there's a whole other side of this, you know. And to me, that side's more compelling. And look, I will say this, everybody, everybody knows it. It's not breaking news. never a good wrestler. Like I wasn't, I wasn't very good at wrestling. I was good enough and I was in

there with some people that were really good. And so I was never, I was always more the entertainment. The sport, I wasn't the sport. That was Billy. I was the entertainment. You know what I mean? And that's, that's how I still feel. Like, I still feel, if you want to watch wrestling, they got some boring ass wrestling on some NCAA channels or something. Nobody wants to see that. When they, when they lock up a UFC fight and go to the ground? Boo, everybody, right? Like, nobody wants to see that. I want to see the entertainment.

Show me the glitz and glamour. Oh, if you knock that dude down in a cool way, in the meantime, I'll pop on that too. You know what I mean? But I want, our truth, our truth is my gold standard. Like he's, he can do no wrong. He's the, he's on the end of the spectrum of the undertaker. You know what I mean?

it's the same spectrum but it's just on opposite ends of because the Undertaker is the gravity of it all he's the like the silliness of it. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, the levity of it all.

And so, man, it's, I don't know, he can do no wrong in my book. You put him out there and do anything and I'm going to love it. And I think the people are too, you know. How is that guy still going? He's 1111 years old. I don't know if anybody knows, but he...

And he looks the same. He looks great. I mean, man, he... I would have loved to seen him play football when he was younger because his calves are huge. He's just, he's just jacked. You know what I mean? And you know, like, he's the guy like Sequan that would just reverse leapfrog a dude and, you know, score a touchdown. Did he ever give you the directions to the fountain of youth when you guys were working together?

Apparently not. But, but man, some great times with our Ronnie Killings. I loved him since the day I met him, man. It's really weird. And I think he'll tell you the same as two peas in a pod. Like two, the exact same person, just a white version and a black version. It's super cool to see. We would get food at catering and sit down.

Everything was the exact same. You know what I mean? Like just there. I don't know. It's just like that always has been. He told me that he'd love for you to induct him in the Hall of Fame one day. Well, I would be honored. I would be more than honored.

Yeah, he's a, I love him. I love him. I got some people in my life that I love and he's one of them. That guy could wrestle for another 20 years. Oh, yeah, because he doesn't have to do anything. Yeah, that's magic. It is magic. And look, that's what we do.

That's what, uh, we talked earlier about people want to know the trick. Yeah, they do, but they still like to be surprised. They still like to see an Easter egg or, or have to think to follow the story. And that's what's Hunter's giving them. Hunter's giving them good stuff, man. Good wrestling. Oh, my Lord, it's been a minute, hadn't it? Since we've had good wrestling that's watchable and three hours of it,

holy crap. And you're three hours in and you go like, okay, yeah, man, I did that. Like, I remember three-hour raws that I couldn't make an hour into. And I, you know, and I feel like you do too. Yeah. But those don't happen anymore. Yeah, I feel like there's definitely a certain period of time everybody. thinking of right now as you're saying.

Yes. Yeah. I've got, oh, sorry, sorry. I can think I got here. You asked me about my job, my job description. Yeah, honestly, dude, I'm a creative consultant. And that's, that, that, that goes across the board when it comes to wrestling. Yeah. I don't think I could be a creative consultant for IBM, but I can do it for WWE, you know. Hey, have you seen that there's a new wrestling movie about to come out? And as wrestling fans, we love nothing more

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When you talk about being nervous before going out there not knowing what you're going to say, did you improvise every time? Every time. I couldn't, I can't remember anything. I've been an idiot since way back, but all the drugs and stuff probably hadn't helped. But yeah, I just, I can't remember. I'd rather go off the cuff, you know. Have you seen the meme where it's like if she doesn't know every word of the New Age Outlaws entrance?

She's too young for you, bro? Yes, I have. And I love that I'm a meme. I do. I love the fact that that's a, I'll never forget the one. And I don't know where it is. You might even know or you could pull it up by the time this goes up where the one night they made signs for the whole thing. And it was the whole upper deck was, ladies and gentlemen, boys and grand,

and it was just a whole section of them had the sign. Yeah. It was incredible. But that's the kind of stuff I go, oh, my God. Like that, that was a moment in time. And maybe not pop culture, but wrestling pop culture. Oh, no, that went beyond wrestling. Well, Suckett did, I think.

For sure, it did. Got a lot of kids in trouble. Yeah, yeah. Billy would tell them, well, that's your parents' fault. autographs signings and he'd go they go yeah I got suspended because of you well your parents was he would just bury their parents

come on Billy no but ladies and gentlemen boys and girl that went beyond wrestling and that was I don't know if I bit half of that from Buffer or if you know what I mean like half of it was definitely Ringling Brother in Barton and Bailey Circus but half of it was trying to pop Brian Lee in the back or you know what I mean or somebody or Billy or whatever

I was just having fun. And so that's, yeah, I don't know. I had fun a couple nights in a row and it stuck. And so then I kept the meat of it and I would just add some local fair around it. North Kakagalaki, you know what I mean? Just some stupid, something where people are going, what is he talking about? It's brilliant because you're saying, this is my name. This is this person's name.

So if you've never seen the New Age Outlaws, now you're aware of it. of this is the name of the tag team. This is my name and this is my partner's name. And by the way, all these other people in here knew that. I should take note. Yeah. But that's, look, I don't, I don't know. I can't, I taught promo class for a little while down at NXT and interim jobs.

And so that was interesting, but you can't teach a good promo. Like, you can't teach. I don't know. I don't think you can teach somebody how to, how to do that. Can charisma be taught? I don't think so. I mean, memory and all that, like Rock writes all of his stuff, but all of his stuff is really

entertaining and funny, so it's not. And he can deliver it in that way, right? He can do it in the way that it's intended. And Sina, Sina will sit around all day and put together the promo, just the right words and just the, man, he's a master at it. I never seen nobody like him do that. I couldn't I can't do that that's not me

I can go out there and I try to have a good time and try to make you talk about me tomorrow at the water fountain and if if I fail then that's on me right did you guys play a part in Enzo and Big Cass's entrance because it was very similar very similar so yeah of course this is my name this is this person's name

I think I don't know that we played a role so much as we just influenced them as something similar I thought they had a great thing too. Enzo couldn't help but stepping in his own stuff every now and then backstage. And so, you know, sorry for him. He was a heck of a talent, heck of a talker. Still good dude, I still see him all the time. But he just, he wasn't along for the world.

Did you feel like you had to mend some fences, rebuild some bridges when you came back to WWE? Like, how was that rebuilding the relationship with Triple H? so it wasn't it wasn't hard at all like after after i went there uh to t and a and we were the voodoo kin mafia and we i said horrible things about him and sean and the whole deal and and for one thing i don't think they ever watched or saw it i don't think they cared i mean because the frontrunner doesn't look back you know what i mean and so i don't think they they really cared but it literally was a conversation that happened when i came back he's literally sat me down and said

What was all that crap? I said, I mean, I was high. I was just trying to make a living, you know? And that was the truth. Like, I don't, I wasn't going to fight nobody. I'm not going to go fight somebody,

but we were supposed to meet him at the Alamo. But it would have been really easy for him to go, yeah, the door's not open for you to come back here. Yeah, 100%. A hundred percent. I, again,

I commend his, I don't know how to say levelheadedness in any other way, but he can look at, look past that superficial nothingness because it was nothing and nothing became of it. And so, huh? And sees value in me and said, hey, do you want to come back? This was the conversation we had when I came back after, after, I guess, 2011. Hey, do you want to come back and make some fun TV like we used to do a DX?

And I said, hell yeah, I want to. And he goes, okay. Well, hey, being so and so, and there, it was just off and running. It was me and him were the kind of the guys behind the backstage, all the backstage stuff of DX China would chime in to because she's hilarious. Ex-Poc and Billy were always there and on point, but it was when we were setting it up and how the camera was going to, the camera will come in here. And it was always just me and him, you know what I mean, shooting the breeze and doing it. So it was it was natural for him to make that call and go, hey, you want to do that again? And yeah, I do.

And it's a blast, man. What a lesson, though, to be learned there about not holding grudges. Here's a lesson I'll tell you that I learned. You're right. And this is of self, back to the self-awareness. So CM Punk, I thought me and CM Punk hated each other's guts for 10 years. Why did you think that? Because in my head, I hated him, and I thought he hated me too.

Did something happen? Yeah, a lot of stuff that went down back and forth and good times and bad times. But yeah, I just thought. And so then the first time I saw him when he came back here, he stood up and he hugged me. And it broke my ice right immediately. And it also hit me right then. hey Brian he hadn't thought a fucking thing about you you know what I mean like it doesn't matter what he thinks about me anyway and I damn sure don't matter what I think about him you know he realized

that and I was here it was 55 and holding on to that you know what I mean and I was holding on to nothing there was nothing there was no bad feelings I don't know it was just it was weird and he's a different dude today. I told him not long ago, hey, man, live events and stuff, hey, I really appreciate your attitude. And he said, well, that's the first time. And anybody's ever said that to me? Well, I mean it from the bottom of my heart because he's a different dude.

Me and him butted heads. He butted heads with a lot of people. He says what he means. He means what he says. And he don't mind if it ruffles your feathers. I kind of respect it, you know. Was this over a creative? Is that?

No, it was in 2015. when we were wrestling. And it was just, it's just stuff that he probably don't even know about. You know what I mean? He left in 2014. So you're before that.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it might have been, yeah. You've been hitting the head with the chair. A lot. Yeah, yeah.

I know me and Billy did a thing with him, uh, in Baltimore. Roddy Piper was there. I don't know what year that was. But it was like we were just a six-man tag with him where, uh, we turned on him.

And they, we stepped down. and the shield beat him up or whatever. And then we went to Bania that year as me and Billy and corporate cane, the corporate stooges. But the fact that that can just be water under the bridge. And just in a moment like that, it's done. Yeah.

And honestly, you said, how did you become so self-aware? I just really don't think I am. And it's really my biggest fear. And my life is to be acting and people just going like, you don't even realize it's dick's hanging out or whatever. You know what I mean? Like I'm not self-aware. I didn't mean to say that.

But I don't want to be unaware of who I am and how I am. Even if when I find out who and how I'm not particularly happy with. Because I learned some things about me that I'm not happy with. And it's me at my core. So I have to work every day to not do that. that and that's being a narcissist and selfish and it's all about you know that's that's me at my core i have to fight hard against that to never are you closer to god if you're helping somebody else so i have to stay vigilant of stay out of your head and out of yourself brian i heard you say

in an older interview that you felt like you cheated yourself yeah what would you have been without drugs or alcohol i think i would have been uh you know where i talked about that prison of Undertaker and Ron Killings. I think I would have been right in here, but I would have been a character. I mean, look, and maybe it's like Knuckleball Schwartz, but it's Road Dog. You know what I mean? I think I would

have been a WWE character name that would have been, and it wouldn't have been Sean Michaels, it wouldn't have been Triple H, it wouldn't have been Undertaker, but Road Dog would have been one of those characters. Like I had, you know, a lot of merch and stuff when I was there, and I was doing well.

So it was, I was getting over in spite of myself, you know what I mean? Well, I don't know if you realized you did have that. You do have that. Well, sitting here as a Hall of Famer. Everybody knows who Road Dog is. I guess, I don't know. I guess I just feel like I would have been a stalwart. Or maybe I hope I would have been a stalwart in the company that would have gone, you know what I mean?

Like and been there throughout at all. Or maybe none of that would have happened because the path that you were on took you to exactly where you are. I have no qualms. I have no regrets about, I know I had to go down that road to get to where I'm at right now. And I'm very, like we talked about, I'm very happy with where I'm at right now. So I will continue to trudge the happy road to destiny. I will continue to fight the internal fights in my head that I fight every day because I, I want. want, I was trying to die, I feel like, when I was taking drugs today, I want to live. I want to live.

I want to be a good father. I want to be a good husband. I want to be a good grandparent. I want to be a good employee. You know what I mean? Before, I just wanted everything and I wanted you to give it to me. I mean, if I had drugs, I wanted mine, and if you had drugs, I wanted yours too. You know what I mean?

And it was, and I don't know, for so long, I blamed everybody for everything. now I believe I got to be a little difficult on myself. You know what I mean? It's time to go, hey, what are you doing? Why makes you tick there, eh-hole? Why wasn't it the right time when you went to rehab the first few times? The first four times. It wasn't time.

I wasn't ready to quit. Like I wasn't in a place where they talk about rock bottom. Man, I drove back from like Anniston, Alabama to Pensacola that night with my brother. And I was hammered. I'm sure I was the main event of the little indie show because I was the road dog. And he just said, man, what do you do? I don't know. It was just a crazy ride of a lot of tears and a lot of, I don't want to live like this anymore.

It was, and it wasn't I want to die. It was, I don't want to live like this anymore. I want to try to live a different way. Everything I had done, every decision I had made, every choice I had made, had gotten me to that car ride to Pensacola. and I wanted I was I was willing to take advice from somebody else at that point you know and listen does my way hasn't worked is there another way and I found another way and and it's much easier when much easier when you did check yourself into rehab yeah how hard was day one

it was hard I remember going back out and trying to find the Xanax I threw out in the parking lot Yeah, but, and it was in a gravel parking lot, so I couldn't find it. But it was hard. I didn't want to, I didn't, it's not that I didn't want to get sober. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't think it was, like it was so long that I'd been drugged up and living in a fog that I didn't know any other way to do. And so it was a whole new world, you know, and I broke into song and sang the whole new world. Don't you dare close your eyes.

I'm just kidding. I don't know the song. That's my karaoke song. Apparently you know the song better than I do. A whole new world. That's where we'll be. Oh, because you played the... No.

I could. You could have been Aladdin. You're good-looking kid. Ah, it's very kind of you. I saw this great, like, fun fact that came up about you of you of you and Billy Gunn as extras in the other guys. Oh, yeah. What's the story behind this? There is no story at all.

all, Cody's agent, Brian Wittenstein, was known me and Billy forever. We used to do autograph signings with Brian back in the day. So we had a day off, and he said, hey, I can get us tickets to a Knicks game. And we were like, oh, cool, let's go. It ended up seeing Shane McMahon there. Like, we had a blast, and we sat down in our seats. And then here came Will Ferrell and Mark Wahlberg. I forget who else.

Rosie Perez. And some, one of the, there was another lady that they did the whole scene right there in front of us. And so we're in the movie for like three seconds. So you're not really an extra. Not at all. You were just going to a Knicks game. We were just in a Knicks game. And we literally sat right behind where they did the, it was fun.

It was fun and funny. It also looks like you're sitting like eight feet apart from Billy Gunn. I don't know. The seats we were in were separated really far apart. I don't know. It was crazy. Yeah, we weren't extras at all. We just in the movie.

You had nothing to do with this movie? At all. At all. That's wild. Yeah, it was so crazy. But I do watch that movie every time it comes on now. And you, not for my part. Like, how long are you in the movie for?

10 seconds. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was in the head of state for a lot longer. What did you do in head of state? I had a speaking role in head of state.

They filmed some stuff at T&A, the old asylum in Nashville, myself and Jeff Jarrett and the Harris twins and my brother. Scott and Chris Rock, of course. It was not a great movie. But we did get paid for it. And I think I still get a check every now and about eight bucks. Seven, eight bucks. Come to the house.

You know who's in the other guys? The Rock is in the other guys. Yeah, yes. I remember. Very early on in the movie. I remember him. They just jump. There goes my hero.

Yeah, him and Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah. Yeah. He goes to go for the bushes. Ain for the Bushes. I told you I watch it every time he comes on. It's so good. It's hilarious.

It really is. I think you were part of J.R.'s most underrated call of all time. It's the dumpster moment. Oh, what would he say? The call is, I think I wrote it down here. It's like, there's people in there. They have a family. There's people in there.

I think that was the first time he ever used, like, those people have a family. Well, then he broke into like, that's, That's Terry Funk and McFolet. Like, that wasn't. That was chainsawed Charlie. Yeah. I think he was Cactus Jack at the time. Bless his heart.

He was a drunk. And I was too. So no one difference to make. No, but, you know, that was a great day and a great time. And if you go back and watch that, it got so heated and real after the pushdown. Like, I remember Bradshaw always beating me up for some reason, reaching over people and like hitting us and stuff. And like it got crazy in a frenetic way that helped, that helped the situation. It's one of those early moments when the agents come out.

Yes, yes. It got real. Yeah, it got real for a second. And it kind of felt real, even to us for a second, you know, because it, it every, all the talent came around and we didn't talk about that. We didn't rehearse that. We didn't know. So all of a sudden everybody's coming and people are, you know what I mean?

Like I said, it's 40 guys out there who are idiots, you know what I mean? Sonny's crying. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, man. It's crazy, but that's... Sable was crying, whoever was. Thank God for it. Did you have a moment where you're like, wait a second, are they actually hurt?

No, we, it was, we didn't rehearse with them in the dumpster, but we rehearsed with Vince in the dumpster. What? Yep. That's a true story. He, he, and I'll say this about him, he would never ask anybody to do. something that he wouldn't do himself. That's the truth. So you, he went in the dumpster, you pushed it off. Look, there were boxes and padding in there. And they, they drilled handles in there so they could hold it. And we did the top down so the top wouldn't open

so their hand wouldn't go out or nothing. Like, we made it as safe as possible. But then, three in total, but then two humans just got pushed off the edge. And it wasn't a huge drop, but it's far enough to where you're going to hit, you know what I mean? You're in a crash. You always hear these stories that Vince wouldn't ask you to do something that he wouldn't do. And there's the story or there's the footage of like him showing Grunk, how to do that thing at WrestleMania.

And then he's like, no, just like this. And here's this 70-something-year-old man jumping off this broadcast tower. He has no problem doing that. That's wild. I don't know if his guts are idiocracy. Sure. Tell me about this table. that didn't break against gangrel.

Oh, yeah. There was a lot, a lot of tables didn't break, but the gangroling was televised. So it hurts the worst. And also, like, I kept climbing up, like, I'm going to do something bigger this time, but I'm not that brave. You know what I mean?

So it was like, oh, it didn't break. I'm angry. Here I go. Oh, well, I'm not going to go that high. So I tried a couple of times. Look, some tables just don't break. They don't know that it's a work. You know what I mean?

They don't gimmick the tables. Well, I think we, no, we didn't that. We didn't back then. We didn't back then. We just went through them. Well, that's easy. It's easier to go through them. Once we started gimmicking, I was like, oh, now you set them up there and the table, you see the table.

And there's nothing in the world worse than it going before it's supposed to. Nothing in the world. So I'd rather you just put me through a concrete tape, you know, whatever. And that's the, you know, that's the weird thing about us, about us. rasslers. It's a sick breed of people, right? Like they are willing to put, we are willing to put our bodies.

Like, this table won't break. So I jumped up and tried to go through it again. Like I sat on him. I just jumped off and sat on him. Like, I didn't think about him at all. I was just trying to break that table. What in the world? Like, normal people don't do that.

Is that your most embarrassing moment? Oh, God, no. You remember the Flight 39 incident? No. I'm just kidding. It was flight 38. No, I've had plenty of, plenty of embarrassing, embarrassing moments. I said the wrong town before Truth ever did. By, you know, I would come out every night and I don't know where we were. And I don't remember what town I said, but it was the wrong one. They started booing. And I looked across at Al. It was Al Snow again. And I said, Al, what are they booing for? And he goes, you said the wrong city. I said, okay, guys, that's on me. I said, go ahead and get it out of your system. Let me hear it. And they were, boo, boo, boo.

I said, now let me try this one more time. It actually worked out better. They popped bigger on the next one. But, yeah, so I did that one, too. I've done a lot of really stupid things. And some of them were televised. And some of them maybe worked. I went, yeah, a lot of them worked, actually.

I went to the gathering a couple of times. One time I was in active addiction and one time I was clean and sober. And I'll tell you this, one time I had a great time. And one time I was terrified out of my mind. And that was when I went back sober. When I went to Divari, when I went the first time in active addiction, I was so messed up. DeVoree dropped kicked me and I flew off the, like I flew off of the whole platform that the ring was on. I was hurt.

It was a bad, it was leading up to getting sober. but I went the one time when I was when I was sober and me and Billy went and we were terrified. Terrified. It was just like, we should not be here, man. We were different then. It was different. We didn't need to be there. You know what I mean?

It was like if you don't want a haircut, don't go to a barbershop. You know what I mean? Like there's a place there called Drug Bridge where you go down there and get whatever you want. Like me and Billy newly sober should not be here right now. Yeah. And we wrestled like, uh, kid and Kevin, uh, Xbox and Kevin Nash at like three in the morning or something. You know what I mean? Like it was, it was, uh, I don't know where, where I went on that little story.

But what a, what a wild profession you have, sir. I love it. I do love it. And that's where I guess that's where I was talking about the freaks of nature that we all are. Like I, I, I witnessed J.D. McDonough and I witness him get injured and continue on. And that's because he's a warrior. And that's because people, I don't know, people, I thought, that's what I was thinking about. And I thought, that's not normal, but that's very normal in our profession.

Everybody would do that. You go, no, I got to finish. We got stuff to do, you know what I mean? Like I got, we got creative to do. Do you remember when the, I forget what their names were, Malenko and Eddie and the radicals? Yeah, the radicals. when they came and then we worked with them the first time and Eddie broke his arm out and we had to beat him and it screwed up the whole show. And, oh, wait, it was supposed to, they were supposed to beat us all and we beat them and it ruined the whole thing if you go back and you'll realize like, oh, that screwed up the whole creative direction of the whole show.

That's right. We had to beat him because as soon as he landed, it was out. It was gone. It was a different direction. And he just said, please pin me. Billy pinned him. And it was just like, oh, God. Man. But, but like I got, I got wrestling me and Billy and a hunter versus Taker and the Acolytes in the garden at a house show. And I got thrown into the Irish whipped into the ropes by Bradshaw. And Bradshaw ain't no joke. He, he kind of does stuff to you when he does it to you through me. And I just went right through the ropes and landed on my head on the outside on the floor. And so I landed on my shoulder in my head and my shoulder rolled over on my nerves. And I couldn't feel my arm. I couldn't feel my hand. And so I'm on the floor and I'm telling him, I can't feel my hand. And I'm like, the finish was a tombstone on me. So I, they, Ron Simmons picked me up.

He didn't know anything was wrong with me, bless his heart. He also is a strong individual. I don't know if you know. But he picked me, he picked me up and threw me back in. And I looked at Taker and I said, just tombstone me. And he said, no, he just pinned me. And I look back on that and think like, wow, what a, like, he didn't care about the creative or the match. How he was worried about me first.

you know what I mean that taught me a lesson right there but then I got carted out of there on a on a backboard because I still couldn't I thought I don't know I didn't know what was going on I couldn't feel my arm and ended up my shoulder just had to be popped back in place what's the scariest moment you've had in a wrestling ring probably that one because I didn't know if it was my neck or whatever and I was on a backboard uh being carted out of Madison Square Garden you know what I mean like it was scary yeah that was probably and I remember looking at that at that the

the lights or the scoreboard and everything and thinking, man, I'm going out on top. If this is it, I'm going out. Yeah. Yeah. What's been the coolest moment you've experienced in a wrestling ring or in your wrestling career? So many of those, man. And truth be told, they're probably personal.

They're probably not even like just standing in the ring and hear an Undertaker's music hit. You know what I mean? and in some of these sold-out arenas that we were in, and you'd be standing there, and that lights would go out, and just moments, you know, that you remember, and you go like, oh, man, because you feel that when you're in the crowd, but when you're about to lock up with him, you know what I mean? Like, it's, and it's, I don't know.

It's different, man, it's different. And so they were cool, well, me and Billy one time loudest pop we've ever heard was in, I want to say, It's Oregon. Name something. No, no, Seattle, Washington, C-Tac. There's a venue out there. It looks like a big balloon.

I can't think of the name of it. And biggest pop we ever got. Biggest loudest. And who was, what was a Sound Garden? Sound Garden was there. Huge fans, DX fans. We were with them before we went out there. Loudest pop we ever heard.

And then I looked down. they're all sitting, Chris Colley, you know, all of them are sitting right there. And I go, Black hole son, won't you come?

And I was saying, then the whole place started saying it. It was just like a really cool moment. Not on TV, not nothing. It was just me and them in the moment. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That's the kind of stuff that was so cool to me to just have little moments like that, little opportunities like that. I don't know, man. Not everybody's going to get. Did you instantly realize

how special it was when you were asked to be part of DX? No. I knew that they thought we were special. I knew that they obviously, you know, this was Sean's back injury and, hey, how do we carry on from here? I knew that they thought highly enough about us

that we were the answer. You know what I mean? And we weren't a substitution. We were the answer to carry it on until he's better. You know what I mean? and that was the whole thinking. And that made me feel real good. And I knew that because those two in particular, Hunter and Sean,

thought that to ask it of us that we were going to be taken care of. And when I say that, I mean creatively. You know what I mean? We're going to get looked after. And when you have the landscape of a show in front of you, not everybody gets looked after. That's just a fact of the business. business and how much time you have.

Three-hour show will help. You know what I mean? But you're going to get some mid-stories that in a two-hour show you wouldn't get to. You know, and so soon I learned, oh, okay, they're all in on us. You know what I mean? But at the time, that made me even more cocky. It made me even more arrogant. You know what I mean?

Because, again, you damn right. Damn right. You think we're great. Yeah. You know what I mean? And acceptance and perspective are the two most important things in the world to me. Because if I can accept whatever happens, then I'm fine with it. You know what I mean?

I'm not going to kick against the pricks. If I can accept it. And then you accept that, whatever just happened, and put it in the proper perspective, it's like the Apostle Paul preaching in prison in biblical terms. Holy Macrily, he was in. jail but he was his perspective was such that he could still preach a positive message and so that's perspective man if i can keep my mind in the right space i'll be all right today when do you guys feel like you push the envelope too far with dx every time like honestly like and we would just

then we would just try to do it like they had us vials to pee on the motorcycles like so we could fake pee on them and like we would like go yeah we're going to really pee on them. That would be our, like, me and X-Poc would laugh and pee on the motorcycles and then not realize, like, some poor guy over here's going to go wax that off. You know, wash that crap off of there. We, I don't know, we made ourselves laugh, you know, having a, good time. Men, if you've lost your hair, it doesn't mean you can't find it again. Try Hymns Hair Loss Solutions and you'll be joining hundreds of thousands of subscribers who have found their hair again. Hymns provides you with convenient and quality access to a range of hair loss treatments

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Go to timeline.com slash Insight 3-3. that's timeline, T-I-M-E-L-I-N-E dot com slash Insight-3-3. What was the direction given to you guys when you went to W-C-W's headquarters and, like, invaded them? What was a direction, I told you?

Very little direction, to be quite honest with you. It was literally running gun. And that was, look, we had done that when I was the Rodee with Real Double-J. We did that in Brentwood after O.J Simpson trial. me and Jeff and Vince Rousseau went out there and you take a camera and you run and gun, man, and it's not legal and it's not morally right. But we had fun with it.

And again, there's no direction. Just you'll hear Bruce Pritcher to come by and go, come on, get in the van. We'd all run and get in the van. And there you. Yeah. It was, it was, but it was great. It was guerrilla warfare, right? Didn't the police grab you?

Yeah, a couple of times. A couple of times. And I had weed in my pocket. So yeah, a couple of times. Just crazy stuff like that where you just go like, man, what were we doing? And what were we thinking? But it was it was the stuff that wins wars. You know what I mean?

That's what it was. And it worked. It worked. It was guerrilla warfare and it worked. But could you imagine if you guys got arrested and charged with something? Yeah, I could. I'd been in jail before at this time. So yeah, I could imagine that.

And I was terrified, but I don't know. I don't think, I think they would have turned it into something. You know what I mean? And had us doing a promo through the glass. That would have been a window love, Billy. Billy Gunn, what a beast. Yeah, he's a beast of a man. It's insane.

He's a man of a man. He's all man and a yard wide. How was that guy, 61? He turned 61 this year? yeah I don't I he's a mad scientist he knows the micros and the macros and uh and it's his lifestyle I mean it's his lifestyle if he's not in the gym he's playing pickle ball or something and I'm like I just have a ball eating a pickle you know that at this age but he he's I'll eat it in silhouette though slowly for you very nice um but yeah he's incredible man what he always was such an athlete

we would go like they go, okay, we got to run in. We're going to run in and save, or we're going to run in and duck a clothes line and get double rock bottomed or whatever. I don't know why I just snorted.

But he would beat me to the ring by so much. You know what I mean? I was like, Billy, if we're going to do anything together, you're going to have to slow down a little bit because I cannot. He would hit the ring and slide almost out the other side. Like, he's just a thoroughbred like that.

He just. And he still is. He got a scholarship. for riding a bull. Like that, who does that? Right. Other than really crazy badass people. Yeah.

I love him. So you're saying he lives up to the name. It's not just a name. Badass Billy Gunn. I see what you did there. I didn't mean to. He's just... This stuff just writes itself, Chris.

It's almost like you're a professional writer. Almost like that. When you were writing for SmackDown, was there a storyline that you wish had gotten on TV? or was there something that you were driving towards, it just never happened? Well, I'll tell you this, and I'd love to have a conversation with you about it.

It worked out exactly how it was supposed to work out, but I was wrong. I wanted Big E to win the title at Kofi Mania. I thought Big E was the guy. And a guy on my writing team who now writes for NXT, he said, you're wrong, boss. You're wrong.

It's Kof. and I didn't realize that Kofi had such a personal connection with the fan base. Like I was just looking for who's the next guy. And I didn't think like, oh, the guy's sitting right here. You know what I mean? I was trying to make this guy over here. And yeah, never been so happy to be wrong, though. Man, what a moment.

Yeah. What a moment. And, you know, you can go back in time and fuss about the next, what happened the next week or the next year or whatever. Who cares, man? But Kofi won the title at WrestleMania. Yeah. And nobody can ever take that away. And Biggie had his moment years later.

Yeah, 100%. Like, and it was going to. He's a champ as well. He was going to come around. It was going to come around. It was just, it wasn't time yet. And I was, I saw something that was, it was there. It just wasn't time yet.

Yeah. The timing was Kofi. It was Kofi's time. And, man, I never been so happy to be wrong and couldn't be more happy for the guy it happened for too. And if I was writing again, we'd do it one more time. Yeah. Because I think it would work again.

I 100% think it would work again. Yeah, what's? That's the WrestleMania that broke me, that kind of broke my spirit. And was the kind of one where I went home after that. I said, I'm heading home after this one. What was it? It was a lot of all that leading up to it. A lot of talk about, I'd been writing the show for a while,

and it had been successful and not successful. successful. And so it was, it was in a good, we were in a good place with it, but the times they were a changing. And, uh, and I felt a little less like it was my show. And, and when, when I fought for it, I always lost. It was just one of those things where I said, yeah, I'm done fighting this fight. You know what I mean? I, I, I, it was really fun at first. Uh, I feel like I had a lot of creative freedom at first. I don't know if you remember, but that first backlash of like 20. I don't even know when it was, but Dean Ambrose was the Smackdown champion. And it was Heath Slater and Rhino were the tag chain. You know what I mean? Like it was

it was a fun little wrestling show, a little two hour fun wrestling show that was gaining some traction. And then it just felt like it drew the attention of everybody and everybody then wanted to play. And the sandbox that was mine was not mine anymore. You know what I mean? And that's and that's hard when it's I knew it wasn't my show. I know what I know the deal, but like if I'm the head writer and I'm,

this is my creative that I'd like to close the show ending like this on the buildup to that Coffy Main. I'd like to end it like this. Well, no, you know, and I don't get good reasons why we're not doing that. And I, again,

me, maybe being cocky and narcissistic, I think I know better than everybody. But here's the truth about me. This is cocky and narcissistic. I'm good at this wrestling crap. I'm not good at the physical aspects of it, but I'm good at putting it together.

I'm good at thinking about what will get good reactions. I'm good at it. But I am good at it. Let's just stop there. Take a breather. Crap, what were we talking about? You were saying that you're fighting this uphill battle and you're getting met with people saying,

this isn't going to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get it. Yeah, yeah. That's where I was. Thank you, sir. I'm good at it and I know what I what I come up with for this segment

for this show is going to work. I know that for a fact. What you come up with the show, I don't know if it's going to work. I can watch it work and go like, damn, dude, good. That was awesome. It worked.

But I didn't know it was going to work because it wasn't mine. You know what I mean? Like I know, but because I know how to go out there in me and make the people talk about it, me for a second or get their attention and keep it for a minute i feel like i can do the same here and i wasn't as a you know for the show as a whole and i wasn't being given that opportunity at the end

yeah and so it was frustrating it was creatively frustrating and i think look i think that's the that's the maybe creatively frustrating should be the era of that of that of that because i'm sure i wasn't alone in that how far ahead are you looking with storylines when you're writing well of every time to mania. You know what I mean? No matter where you're at, you're looking to mania, but hopefully you looked at it last April.

You know what I mean? Sure. And so, yeah, you're looking a year out, definitely. And then, of course, you're going to course correct and have to navigate injuries

and everything under the sun. But if you can have your some tent poles at that year out, man, you're in a good spot. You know what I mean? And then I'll tell you what, what Hunter's doing that didn't happen a lot. The writing team in the WWE is undoubtedly one of the most talented groups of people I've

ever worked with and I've ever been around and their, their, their, uh, tenacity and they've been through it all, they've weathered it all and they're here and they're good at their jobs. They're a funny gaggle. I love nothing better than sitting in there with a gaggle. Yeah, yeah, I use that. I don't even know if I used it correctly. But they are an entertaining group, man. Raw and Smackdown, both those teams.

It's fun to sit in on those meetings because you have fun and you create great content at the same time. And man, that's my, that's right up my wheelhouse, you know. Yeah, it sounds like you've found your groove. Yeah, I think every, as a company, we have found our groove, man, and firing on all cylinders. And now, from a production standpoint, look, nobody does what we do. We make beautiful wrestling. And I've been saying that for 10 years now because that's what we do. We make beautiful wrestling.

And now we have nine or 10 new cameras, a drone inside the arena that we're flying, a cable, the wire like the NFL has. Like so many do camera angles to play with. And our production value is only going to go up from here. like a hunter keeps saying we're just getting started and man if that's the truth i don't know where we end up with all these new camera angles what blows my mind the most is you guys set that up and tear it down in 24 hours well i don't know who does that but thank god for some very talented people yes some very talented it's just crazy and then they'll you know they'll play a hockey game the next day or a basketball game in the same place yeah you have a concert like what it's it's

crazy. They're going to do it here tomorrow, you know, they'll set up for Smackdown, then break it all down and go set it up for the arena or whatever, the stadium. Yeah, it's just wild. It's a machine, man. And look, there were, there were some hiccups at first, you know, during the turnover, but I think they were just hiccups, man. Everything just ran smoothly and new people stepped into new jobs and everything. But because, you know, the endeavor and UFC already had some of some staff. So if we had double time staff, then they don't need all that,

you know, so there were some changes and some people disappearing that you remember seeing and you like seeing, but such a streamlined, well-oiled machine on every level. And it's just, man, it's impressive to watch,

almost scary to be caught up in. Because look, I come from my father being the Booker in Southeastern Championship Wrestling. my brothers being the champions and I come from mom and pops wrestling and to an extent even the old regime was still mom and pops wrestling even though it was publicly traded it was still one man's vision and one man's decision and now it's not that way anymore now it's like I said open for my ideas and all of the stuff at our disposal the sky is the limit man I saw this with billy when he

was on the show a few months ago and I see it with you just like you're happy yeah yeah yeah yeah I love where I'm at. Not only, of course, I said it about it in my life, but in my job, like I'm, I'm kind of floating around. We got all these new platforms that are purchasing product like we mentioned earlier. And I'm kind of involved in all of it at the same time. And so it's really fun. It's really crazy. And it's, I'll go from here to the office and then from the office to Orlando to shoot another Evolve episode,

three episodes of that that we're putting in the can. So it's just really fast moving right now, but really free-flowing from a creative standpoint. So, man, we're all just in this boat rowing for the same shore. You know what I mean? Yeah. We're not floundering around like a ship at sea anymore. Wow.

There's been so many great quotes from this. This is amazing. That's a Randy, Travis. I was listening to. I sometimes I got nervous before I came down here. So I listened to. Why would you get nervous? I do, man.

I just do. I don't know. I'm inside my head. It's a dangerous place in there. But that's the self-awareness, though, that if you know you're inside your head, that's great. I started to listen to some music that I know I love, you know, and it put me in a different place. And I said, hey, let me go down there and see what you're. You're listening to Randy Travis before this. I'm watching Road Doug matches and promos. I used to be somebody. I believe you still are. I believe you might still be.

It's fine, man. Although you're not wearing the Hall of Fame ring. No. You know what? I don't. It's, I don't know. Look, I don't even watch. I don't wear jewelry.

It's in a nice displayed with the handcuffs or handcuffs. What? Me and my wife get freaky. No, the handculinks. Cufflinks. I knew I was half right. That Hunter gave us, like at the day of it, I haven't, people know this story.

but I haven't told it a lot. Like the day we were all going into the Hall of Fame. And congrats to him, by the way, on just getting inducted. Yeah. Or about to be inducted individually. Nobody deserves it more. That's for dang sure. But we were about to be inducted.

And he said, yeah, I got you all something. And I was like, I didn't get you nothing. I'm sorry. I didn't get you anything. Catering is still open. But they're boxes and they're like, oh, my God. They're like $5,000 cuff links that say DX on them. And on the back it says road dog Jesse James.

You know what I mean? And Billy has some. And it was like, it's the greatest thing I have them displayed in my one. I don't have a man cave. I don't have a action figures. I don't have that in my house. I got one thing that was my mom's. And it's the old, it looks the oldest.

And it's in the corner. And you can, the light comes on inside of it. And it has my tag title belt. and like some stuff that means a lot to me in there. You know what I mean? I action figure of my brother that passed away. Action figure of my dad. My Hall of Fame ring, those cuff links.

You know, just a couple things that that means something to me. More than, you know, the action figures are really cool for me when my grandkids are playing with them. That's when my action figures are the coolest to me. That's when it's real to me. And I go like, oh, that's, other than that, it's just phony baloney rascalion. men in their underwear rolling around with each other. You know what I mean? And so people can get really upset about that.

And it's something that we who are in the bubble 24-7-365 have to remind ourselves of constantly. This ain't world peace we're doing here. You know what I mean? We're not reinventing the wheel or curing cancer. This is phony baloney wrestling, but we can make it awesome and pretty and cool. and compelling and all of the above. And it makes people feel something. Man, it gets you outside your head for a little while.

And I know I appreciate that. You know what I mean? But the self-awareness is I do, I do know I have to do those mental gymnastics. And it's a floor routine that I have to do to get myself off of the ledge that I put myself on. It's so crazy. And it's such a... you know, a dichotomy inside, but it's what I got to do to be, to be aware, because for so long I acted like such a jackass.

I'm sure I'm a jackass still. I appreciate where you're at in your life. This is such a great conversation. Oh, man. I hope, I'll probably get fired for something I said, but I don't feel like I said anything. No. I feel like everybody knows I used to do drugs. I think, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, WWE's on fire. Yes. And if you're a WWE fan, or a wrestling fan at all, now's the time. If you were a lapsed fan from the attitude era,

now is the time to chime back in because today you're seeing Attitude Era, like Star Power almost, if that makes sense. But so far in front of Attitude Era, creative writing, the in-ring performance, the promos, the so, man, the promos have been so fire Drew McIntyre, Seth Rollins, punk, Cody, like these guys, and now Sina's back, holy crap, Kevin Owens, these guys bring their A game in the promo department, and they're

cutting segment long promos every week on TV and jabbing each other where you go like, man, that had to piss him off a little bit. That felt real. That stung, you know, and that's compelling television is what that is. That's Jerry Springer right there. What's exciting about the time we're in right now is there's new wrestling fans for the first time in a long time. Man, and they're seeing Selena Gomez or not Selena Gomez. Vanessa Hudgens?

I'm sorry. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Take two, Vanessa, sorry. Yeah, Vanessa Hudgens, they're seeing these superstars on the front row. These real pop culture icons on the front row with their children or something. You go like, oh, this is cool. This is where it's at.

and it is where it's at. I mean, L.A. L.A. was stacked. I was there. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah, even you were there. That's what I'm saying? I was sitting in like the 74th row.

I thought you were next to Vanessa Hudgens. Who was that guy? Someone far more handsome than me. Well, apparently not handsome enough to remember his name. They didn't even call him out or say anything about him. How about the pop that McCulley Colkin got? What's going on with McCulley Culkin? Like, he literally like, he didn't.

the whole deal. He'd had a reveal. Clearly a wrestler at heart. Well, he clearly is. Yeah. He clearly is. Like, one of the writers when I first started here was actually grew up and was best friends with the Colkins. And he was a writer on this team. Actually wrote some very prominent stuff that you'd remember that we'll talk about off screen. But very good friends with them and huge wrestling fans.

Know everything, predict stuff, have, you know what I mean? Yeah, they love it. They love it. He got pop of the night. That first raw on Netflix. He really did. It was louder than seen his pop, I feel like. Plus it's hard. He deserves it.

Yeah. Cavat. Kevin. So good to be able to sit down with you. Yeah. Hey, thank you for this, Brian. I'm going to go back to my room and watch National Geographic. They were on Tutton Common, I think, or somebody.

Very, King Tut. It might have just been the rapper common. I'm not sure. They were digging somebody. I will end this with the question. I ask everybody at the end of every interview. you. And again, thank you for the time, taking the time to do this, Brian. Gratitude is such an important part of my life. And I wake up every day. I say out loud,

three things I'm grateful for. Amen. Do it before going to bed. And I just feel like it really centers your day when you can focus on the things you do have. Yeah. So, Brian, what are three things in your life you're grateful for right now? Uh, family, God, and sobriety. You know what I mean? Like that without God in my life. And look, I think we're speaking the same language. I'm just using the word God. I do when I wake up, pray and try to center myself in my own way. And at night, I lay down and I ask myself, it's not myself. I ask my higher power, I guess you can say, what I did wrong today, nine times out of ten, it jumps out at me quick. And I have to make an apology maybe the next day. I have to go back and write that wrong. And that's all I can do

on a daily basis. But again, I'm thankful for God who I feel like, delivered me into my sobriety, but the way he did it, I'm very thankful for. And then my wife, man, my wife has been with me through infidelity, through, and I'm not, you know, these are, these are my deepest dark at secrets, physical violence. Like I have a horrible past, and she's been with me through it all. And I praise her name every day. And I thank God for her because she is she's the light in the harbor, you know what I mean, that, that keeps me, keeps me where I need to be. I couldn't do anything without her. She is not only my better half, she's my better whole. You know what I mean? And that's, that's just the truth. She's a rock. And so, and then my kids,

you know, they've, they've seen me, they've seen me grow. Look, I'm just thankful. Attitude of gratitude. It's what I talked about earlier, perspective. It's about, it's about keeping the right frame of mind about about everything about you know what I mean like I it's just it's very easy to get mad when the flight's delayed but what what are we doing here what are you doing what are you wasting what are you I've wasted so much time uh I always say it's trying to die trying to die I wasted so much time and I now I just want to take every minute to live I just want to live and I want to see my kids grow old and I want to then die and they're going to a hole and bury me in it.

Well, hopefully it's like 80 years from now. I pray it's 80 years from now, but we don't know. We're not promised tomorrow. I'm good if it's today, and I'm good if it's 80 years from now. Brian, what a great way to end. Yeah. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you, man.

I appreciate you. All right, big thank you to Road Dogg for doing this. Like he said, he doesn't really do a lot of interviews anymore. And I know I mentioned it during this conversation, but his self-awareness is, it's just incredible. And I learned a lot from everything. everything we were talking about during that conversation. And I'm excited to see what Smackdown looks like over the next bunch of months with him

as the co-lead writer. And as AJ Stiles pointed out on Twitter earlier this week, without a certain person basically getting rid of all of his ideas and then it's not even really Road Dog's show anymore. I firmly believe as the co-lead writer moving forward, this will be Road Dogs show. Well, at least the co-his show. But you know what I mean. These will still be his ideas that we'll be seeing on TV. Snap a screenshot.

Let us know what you thought of this episode and let us know what stood out for you by tagging us. He's at Brian R.D. James on Twitter. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here's a quote from James Baldwin to bring this home here. Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. Boy, that seems so poignant based on a lot of of the things we talked about during this conversation. Be great. Be grateful. Thank you for being

with us in this one. We've got Ask CVV number 71 tomorrow. If you've got a question for that one, send it in on social media using the hashtag Ask CVV. Shoot me an email CVV at ChrisFanly.com or if you're listening on Spotify and you're still listening right now, leave a comment on there and we'll get to that. Be great. Be grateful. Have an amazing day. We'll see you right back here tomorrow Ask CVV 71. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes.

So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast.

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