Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Road Dogg On Being Jealous Of The Rock, Working Directly For Vince, DX vs. nWo

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

Road Dogg (@BGJames) is a WWE Hall of Famer known for his time as part of the tag team "The New Age Outlaws" and as a member of D-Generation X. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about his new podcast called "Oh... You Didn't Know", how he first teamed up with his tag team partner Billy Gunn, his thoughts on Gunn Club in AEW being compared to the New Age Outlaws, his struggles with addiction, how he was able to get clean, what he learned working under Vince McMahon as the head writer on Smackdown, his relationship with Triple H, why he was jealous of The Rock and much more! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blaine! Well, here we go. So glad you're with us. Here on another audio adventure, I'm Chris Van Fleet, and if it's your first episode of Insight, welcome. Take your coat off. Stay a while.

And if you're a longtime listener as we celebrate our three-year anniversary on the show, you are awesome. And you are a reason that the show is still around after three years. super grateful for you. And super grateful for our guest today. Arguably one of the best tag team wrestlers of all time. Road Dog has a new podcast called, Oh, You Didn't Know. Wow, it sounds so weird when you just say it like that.

Road Dog has a new podcast called, Oh, you didn't know? And I was just blown away when I was listening to it and realizing just how open and honest he is about everything. And that transfers over to this conversation as well. he will tell you he's been through a lot and it's definitely helped him become the person that he is today this is one of my favorite conversations we've ever had on the show so i hope that you enjoy this as much as i do give him a follow on twitter b r d james on instagram bg james if you're not following me i'm at chris fan bleat and take a screenshot let us know you're listening to this and let us know

what stood out for you the most here let's do it please welcome the hall of famer Brian James, aka Road Dog. Sir, it is such a pleasure. Thank you for finding the time to do this. Oh, no. Thank you for inviting me. I really appreciate it. Chris, I know you have a huge platform,

and for you to give me this opportunity to talk about my platform is a huge honor, so thank you. Are you kidding? The honor is fine. I know which side of the bread is buttered. You know what I mean? Well, I appreciate you, and congrats.

Oh, you didn't know. It's like absolutely crushing it. Every time I look at the charts, it's right up there. So, I mean, that's amazing. I appreciate that because I have no idea what I'm doing at all. It's just, it's a wing and a prayer. How does it all come together? So, look, thank God for the researchers.

You know what I mean? Because half the time I don't remember stuff until I read through the notes. But if they didn't, you know, they schedule out what we're going to talk about and stuff like that, I wouldn't even know where to begin. So thank God for the podcast. crew you know uh they they're helping me out along the way a ton so thanks to those guys i mean you're going to be doing this for i mean the very foreseeable future are there any episodes that are coming up where you're like oh man either i can't wait to talk about that or i'm scared to talk about that

well the one i was kind of scared to talk about was the vk m one and not because it was the uh us being them it was just a dark time in my in my life literally um so it was like like, do I want to relive that? The one we just did with, that I think comes out Thursday, is with Billy and his kids. And so we had a really good time. We could have gone on forever. But I hope it turns out as good as it was fun to do, you know. You can have fun doing it sometimes.

And then it sucks as a podcast, just like a wrestling show. You could write a wrestling show and then go, holy mackle, that was a great show. And you get the ratings. And old man, Nielsen said nobody was watching. You know what I mean? you go, you got to tell yourself, hey, it was still a great show. We still had fun and we still did what, you know, the best, put forward the best product we could. Yeah, you mentioned Billy's kids.

I love, I love Billy too. And, you know, Austin and Colton were recently on the show. How much of you and Billy do you see in the gun club? Well, I do see, I do see some. And that's kind of weird for me to say and weird for me to feel that way. But I think it is anyway. But I do see us a little bit. I see Austin as that, that, the difference is he can work.

work too. He's an athlete too. I couldn't, I wasn't a very good athlete. I was just entertaining, I guess. But both of his kids are really good athletes. It's just like Austin is the one that's kind of out there a little more. And Colton just kind of brings home the bacon. You know what I mean? He just does what he needs to do. And so, yeah, I do see, I see some, some things that are similar, you know, and I actually worked with them or talked with them a little bit a couple of times now about coming up with something you know not not you can't be like what what ours was that's for sure but coming up with something that is a sing-songy thing even if it's when you're a heel and it's the old curt angle you suck thing you know what i mean it's something that the fans

can interact with so we're we're kind of working on that well they've got the ass boys thing going on right now which you know whether they like it or not the fans love it i look i think they like it too if i'm being totally honest with you because it's something right It is something and it's something that the people get behind. And so, but to their credit, they sell it. You know what I mean? They sell it because that's what they're supposed to do. If they got along with it, they probably wouldn't chant it.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, I think they're doing the right thing. Those kids who've got a huge upside and the sky is the limit, man. I'm excited. I'm more excited for Billy to get that opportunity to work with these kids and the ring and all the time and helping them. And, you know, it was just the short time I got to do it with my dad was such a cool moment. for me that I'll have for the rest of my life. And so I'm thankful for Billy that he has this opportunity.

And those kids have just insane genetics. I mean, look at their dad is a freak. He's a freak, bless his heart. He's all man, ain't he and a yard wide? He, uh, you shake his hand and like I like to watch at these conventions we go to because I'll see guys come in and they like feel like they're the alpha. And then they go to shake his hand and I'll just look at him and go, do you try you?

And Billy say, no, not a chance. You know, or, yeah, he tried, you know, but Billy had squished their hand, man. And they literally walk away going, thanks for the autograph. Oh, my God, my man, it's killing me. But, yeah, it's that catcher man, man. And I always say the stiffest part of any match we ever had was the hot tag deal, because he would work himself into that frenzy. And when that hot tag came, you'd just look at my shoulder sometimes.

But, yeah, he's a, he's a genetic freak. And those kids are, too, back to your original point. what genetics they have and what good looking kids they are too. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like there's no better name for your podcast than, oh, you didn't know. Like there must not have been another name on the list, right?

Well, the truth be told, I had to be told that, you know, I had to be recommended, like, suggested like, hey, it should be called oh, you didn't know. And I was like, oh, well, I want to call it the doghouse or so, you know what I mean? And it was like, no, oh, you didn't know, makes perfect sense. And after I got over the, you know, the thing where you go, no. my eye, I want to do my idea. And you cry for a second like King Baby. And then you go, wow, his idea's better.

So, yeah, oh, you didn't know. It's a perfect name. When was the first time that you said, oh, you didn't know? And what was the meaning behind it originally? Yeah. So I don't remember the date, but I do remember it was a house show. And the underfaker, Brian Lee, chains of DOA fame. he always was a great friend of mine

and we would mess around and back then it was, you know, you better fax somebody. Oh, you better you better page somebody. You know, we were saying all kind of different stuff. And so one night we were messing around backstage right before my match. And he came up and unbuttoned my tag titles. And I turned around.

I was cussing him out. I said, when I get back here, you know, and he was like, oh, you better call somebody. I said, okay, okay. So here I went out out the door, and literally the music went bow, bow, bow, bow, and I said, oh, you didn't know. It was to totally just make him laugh. Like the one guy that I had been messing with backstage was totally to make him laugh, but it sounded so decent and it fits so well in between the guitar riffs that I thought the next night, I'm going to do that again. You know, back then we were working 20 nights a week.

And so it was like, I'm going to try that again tomorrow night, see if it was just a one-time thing or whatever. ever, you know, the rest is history. Wow. I feel like there were... Everything happened, man. We used to just be, you know, stone cold. All that crap was just in the rock and everything just was, it was the timing, man. It was, it was gold.

It was the golden era. And so anything and everything caught on, you know, they were chopping people's peepies for a lot of people. But I don't feel like the freedom is there, though, if someone came up with something super original now in this era that they could get away with it. Yeah, look, I do think it would have to be run up a totally different flagpole than mine was. Because back then, literally, our whole gimmick was, just give me a microphone and I'll talk us down to the ring. Well, then they gave us some ring music, and we were like, oh, cool, we got music now. You know, back in the day, sometimes you didn't have music at all.

It just came to the ring. And so back, you know, you got some music and you're like, oh, cool. And they were invested in us. And so I heard the music. I did it one time. It stuck. and the rest is history. And then how did you come up with the shtick that would be the thing that you guys said

every single week? How did you know what would work? So, I mean, I think I stole that from like a Ringling Brothers or, you know, when you come to the fair or whatever, the ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all, I just stepped right up and, you know, it's just the carnival barker. And so it was basically that that I just kind of modified to fit me in Billy's names and, you know, in the New Age Allison. And then I would just tweak it ever so gently.

You know what I mean? To say something about the town or to say something about the talent we're about to work with or something where you just modify it each. You give them the part, the sing-song part that they can holler at you, you know, with you. But then you just tweak it to make it personalized for that city, I guess. I feel like you were like right on the edge of being like a freestyle rapper because a lot of your stuff, a lot of your stuff rhyme. You know what? Everything rhymes. And I'd still think of things like that.

to remember stuff. I think about rhymes and I think about, you know, and so I'm not a good freestyle rapper. I can tell you that much right now, but I do love hip hop. I grew up on hip hop on old rap, you know, Sugar Hill Gang and all that back in the 80s. And so I came up on all that. So yeah, I love to rhyme. I love, you know, I stole the Do Double G from the Snoop Dog and it was back in a time when nobody cared. So I don't know, man, we just, I don't know, Chris, we just had such a good time and I was high all the time. So I just did the best I could. Do you not, do you not remember a lot of things because you were high? I honestly think that's probably the case. I do remember some stuff and when I start reading about it. I go, oh, I remember that. We did

that in such a and it'll bring stuff back. But look, I also don't know where my head's at. You know what I mean? I did a lot of foolish things, a lot of foolish bumps and a lot of, you know, crazy chair shots and the head, you know, a lot of crazy stuff. So who can pinpoint what it is that makes me not smart like you fellas, but there's something there. That's for dang sure. Was there a moment like where you can pinpoint where you were like, I've got to stop this.

I've got to turn this around and I've got to like get clean but for real this time. Yeah. Yeah, it was, I didn't have a job at the time. I was riding back with my brother from a little independent show in like upper Alabama somewhere. We just drove up to the day and drove back. And I'd gotten a bunch of pills from the guys there because the guys at the indie show, I'm still the road dog. I'm still a big deal. So they are going to give me everything they got and share it with me and all that. And I got hammered. And I did the show and everything. With all the ride back, I was really down on myself

and on life and I was messed up and I was mad about it. And my brother Scott had just gotten clean. And the company had sent him to rehab and paid for it. He said, you know, you can call Aunt Russo. Anne Russo at the time was in charge of the wellness policy programs. And so I called her the next day. And I don't know that at that moment I was ready to quit doing drugs and drinking alcohol because I just was trying to like do something, just do anything. And I didn't know what else to do.

And so I said, yeah, I called her. She sent me right up by the, 28th day, though, I was ready to stop living that way. You know what I mean? And I had been wanting to stop living that way for a while. I didn't know how to get off the roller coaster. And I didn't care for a while there. This is the dark part of the sweet Chrissy V show. I didn't care which handful of bills killed me either. You know what I mean? And the only problem in my mind at that point was, oh, my kids are going to find me dead. You know what I mean? It was I had got to that point. But whatever it was, my kids are going to find me, my wife's going to find whatever it was kept me from doing it.

And then I got, you know, and then that's where I was when Scotty said, you can go to rehab. Yeah, man, and I'm fat. Thank God and Evan above today that I went that time because I just went for 28 days. You know, if you're ready to quit living like that, you'll take suggestions and you'll quit living like that. But you have to be ready. Like, no place is going to get you there. no no other humans can't get you there you know what i mean you you you got to get you there and until you're ready you're not going to you're not going to try to change you know you've heard a lot of

people say that like you can't have someone else sign you into rehab like unless you're ready yourself then oh yeah and look that's just the legalities parts about it Chris like the legally signing you i'm talking about the actual work and the actual digging in deep to uh look inward and see why am I because mine was all fear based my whole deal and it's crazy to say that people just go you went out in front of 20,000 people and cut promos and wrestle and then blah blah and I'm like I was terrified I was and I got high because of it and the second run this last run about eight years ago so much better like I wish I would have had the youth of my body that I had the wisdom of my mind at that time you know what I mean like it would have been great and I'd still be doing

it probably. But yeah, when I was ready to quit living like that, man. And so I continue to this day to look inward and try not to blame things. You know, life happens. And it happens to us all. It reigns on the righteous and the unrighteous. You know what I mean? So it happens to us all. It's not what happens in life that counts. It's what I do in response to. And so that's empowering. You know what I mean? It's also liberating from like, it's almost like if I lifted weights, it would be like rewracking the weights and a squat rack and go, oh, God, I'm not in control of anything. I don't have to be in charge of anything. I just have to control me. It turns out that's a full-time job, but it's a job we're fighting for. You know what I mean?

That's where I'm at right now. I mean, and congratulations. Like, it's a big step to be able to go, that was who I was and here's who I am now. Yeah. And I'm sad to say that's who I was because it's, I say this all the time. That's not who my mom and dad raised. You know what I mean? That was not the guy with the moral values and the convictions that they taught me. That was somebody else. And I don't like that guy.

And I want to drag that guy out in the street, beat the crap out of him. But then I realize, oh, it's me. I can't do that. So how do I work on me today? Yeah. The first time I interviewed Billy, which was like maybe five years ago, he talked about how like there were a lot of bridges he needed to mend. And one in particular was with Triple Age.

Was that the same for you? 100%. Like, look, in the program of recovery that I follow, there's some making amends parts to it. And so I had to make that list. And Jim Ross was one. The Rock was one for me. The Undertaker was one. These are guys that tried to help me.

Well, Rock didn't try to help me. I was just really mean to him because I was jealous of him. and he was a threat to me because he could do everything I could do, but he looked frigging great too. You know what I mean? And it was like, oh, son of a beast thing, you got everything. And at that point in my life, that bothered me. You know what I mean? I was afraid of that. Like I said, he was a threat to me. So I treated him horrible in front of everybody all the time. And I went to him. And he said, thank you. That's nice of you to say. I don't know if he forgives me. That's none of my business. but I had to do it to clean up my side of the street, as we say.

And Jim Ross, I would treat him horribly too because he handled all the contractual stuff. And Undertaker tried to help me. And I told him, you ain't my daddy, you don't know nothing about me. And you know what I mean? It was just where I was at the time. And I ain't there no more. And I don't ever have to be there again. That's the good thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, do you still keep in touch with some of these people that you had to make amends with? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Look, every time I see, I still stay in touch with Taker. Every time I see Rock, we talk and I see him. He came to the performance center when I was down there and spoke and watched some matches and stuff.

And so, yeah, we still get along. And Jim Ross, I haven't spoken to him. But I saw him in Liverpool at a convention we did and spent some time with him. But yeah, I got to talk to him. And look, it helps me. It helps me lay my head on my pillow at night. And the more I dig into myself and find out what things were my fault, the easier it is to fall asleep at night.

Because at the end of my night, I go, hey, God, what did I do wrong today? Or what did I, what could I have done better? Or do I owe somebody an apology that I spoke harshly to my daughter? You know what I mean? I take a bit of an inventory when I lay my head on my pillow at night. And 10 times out of 10, if I have done something that day, that's the first thing that'll pop into my mind. And I go, I can make that right right now or I can make that right tomorrow.

But I got to make it right because I can't walk around with it. And you know what I mean? I got to be, I got to shake it off. I remember, like, you mentioned VKM stuff in TNA and I remember watching that and being like, that seems personal. Like the stuff you were saying about Triple H and Sean Michaels, like it felt personal. It was at the time. You know what I mean?

Like people change. And people that say don't, people don't change or wrong, I guess. But like so, excuse me, at that moment in my life, in my career, I would have fought both of them at the drop of a hat. I would have thought them both. And I don't even know why, looking back. Like that's the, that's the, you know, the drug addiction and the alcoholism is very self-centered. It's very self-centered behavior. And that, that's, it was all about me.

And how come you guys didn't stand up for me and keep me on? And, you know, I was a liability. look, I would have fired me too. But at that moment, how dare you? You son of a gun, you know what I mean? And so when Vince Russo came aboard and said, hey, we want to do this thing? It was like, I'll do anything you want me to. Just keep paying me and keep my lights on and keep me in my drug habit.

You know what I mean? And that's basically what my whole tenure there was. So when you go back to WWE years later, does Vince ever end up saying anything like that VKM thing and TNA? That's interesting. So let me tell you something. Vince never watched an episode of T&A in his old career or his old life. But Hunter said something to me.

And it was in Baltimore and I'll never forget it. It was very lighthearted. But he said, hey, dog, what's going on? We just seen each other for the first time. And he was like, yeah, come on in. He was in his office. And I went in and shut the door and sat down. And he's like, yeah, so what's this VKM thing?

And I was like, oh, dude, man. I'm so sorry. He's like, I'm just kidding, bad. Don't worry about it. And that was it. And that was good. You know what I mean? I think everybody kind of gets it in this industry.

You go over there and then you just do what they say. And you go over there and you do what they say. You know what I mean? So having said that, it was very personal at the time. And that's why I believe VKM, TNA was some of my best mic work. Like I just had some really good promos down there that I didn't realize I cut until the podcast. Oh, you didn't know. came on and we dug back into that that sometime of my life and it was like,

holy crap, I cut some good promos. They gave me some serious mic down there. But yeah, look, it didn't, it didn't make much of a mountain out of it. You know, they did. Thank God. When you were over there, how close did you guys feel like you were competing with WWE? Like they did go head to head with Raw for, you know, a handful of weeks.

For a minute. Yeah, look, again, I think a lot of people, that are in the office, maybe in the, you know, the executive vice presidents and vice presidents of stuff, is really looking at that and going, are we in competition with them or can we be in competition with them? I think the people like me and Billy who had been there and Vince Rousseau is just like, yeah, we're not competing with those guys, but let's just do the best we can. You know what I mean? And maybe if we, as BKM, can yell loud enough over here, they'll look at us and give us some credibility.

Of course, they never did that. that and why would you have in retrospect? Why would you have done that? It's like the winner of the race looking back to see the, you know, fourth place runner coming across the finish line. Does it remind you at all or perhaps the WCW Monday Night Wars? Does it remind you at all of what's going on right now with AEW? Yeah, a little bit.

You know, it's different because they're not going head to head with us. So it almost feels more like like not a war, but like a, I don't know, like there's another wrestling show on to me. And I know that probably they are watching their executives and their higher-ups. You know, maybe punk and maybe so higher-ups or who know about ratings and stuff like that or following and doing that. But I think for the boys, they just love to have a place to work and work because a lot of them, I know for me, when I first started, I was just young and dumb and had a dream and wanted to chase it.

And so I did and chased it right into millions of dollars. And then Chase ran right through that and kept up. But it was, you know, I don't think the boys are so in a competition, in a war, as the offices are. You know what I mean? Like it feels good to go, oh, they only got such and such as a rating on that. And they had all this big stuff on it. And I'm sure it feels good for them to do the same thing. You know what I mean?

But like I said, I think the boys are just happy to be able to get paid for taking bumps, you know? It is funny that we're still talking about ratings now because like people watch TV so different. And I get that like ad sales are based on ratings. But yeah, just because. Yes, Chris, you go to the guy, you go to the guy that's the head of USA network and go, yeah, ratings don't matter. Well, his whole life revolves around ratings, you know what I mean? So it's hard to tell them that.

But it is an archaic that television has changed. It's on demand now. I watch when I want to watch it. I don't watch when you tell me to, you know what I mean? And I think across the board. And even when, and I've said this before, even when you give it three to four weeks and check DVRs, Holy mackerel, the number is a lot more impressive. You know what I mean?

But we don't ever do that. The next day it comes out and you go, oh, there's the number. Well, actually a lot more people watched it. You just don't have those analytics yet. Yeah. And also a lot of people are watching the clips on Twitter or Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. You watched the whole show one there.

That's right, right? And like the clips go up 20 seconds after they happen on TV. So it's like, just because the Nielsen box doesn't say that you watch, doesn't mean you didn't take in the content. know, and look, I think they were ahead of the ball with the WWE network. Now, look, the game changed and they ended up, it was a better gig to sell it. But, man, he's always been ahead of the curve. So I think having all that digital content, people say, oh, how can you have good ratings

when you put all the stuff on digital? I think that's the future, man. So you've got to get your foot in the door on that stuff right now. And we'll figure out this other stuff once they figure out if the ratings work or not. You know? The United States Soccer Federation Present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Klinemberg.

And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are.

The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite. platform. You've worked so closely with Vince, both as a wrestler and then behind the scenes. And I'm so curious to know, like, what's the biggest lesson that you can take away from your time with him? Man, and to be totally honest with you, Chris, there's not one. There's a million. And that, look, that's why people say, oh, you're not bitter, man. I got 10 years of life experience flying on that jet, getting in the limos with him, riding and listening and learning But one thing he taught me, or one thing he said to me one time, and I'll never forget it.

But I remember a lot of stuff. He said, I came to him and I said, hey, I forget who it was a talent. So-and-so wants to say this in their promo. That's not what we wrote. Are you cool if they say that? He goes, just get the same point across? And I said, yes, sir. He just went.

And he said, yeah, Brian, do that. It empowers the talent. And then they'll have more trust to you. And I said, okay. But he told me that. on one-on-one basis because sometimes he writes your promo and that's what you say you know what i mean if they can't if he can't fully trust that you're going to go out there live on his television show and do and act accordingly and do your promo in a professional way he doesn't know if he can trust you

yet so you say it verbatim i think this was dolph ziggler to be quite honest with you because it's one of those things where you go i trust dolf and then he shoots himself for the foot but i do love dahlv i think he's one of the best pumpers i love him i love him I would love to have seen Billy Gunn in his prime and Dolph Ziegler as a tag team. Holy crap, man. Yeah, the suicide blondes or something, you know. Yeah. Awesome.

What were we talking about, Chris? Learning from Vince. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, dude, you sit under that learning tree and sometimes you sit under until three in the morning. But it was, you learn stuff. And it's little stuff about the business and about not just a business about, like being a professional. like being an executive, like he had me going to, or he didn't have me going. He had somebody coming to the office once a week from Carnegie and teaching me, like,

how to be an executive. Like he wanted to make me an executive and have me work. And it was on me. I couldn't handle it. To work with that man is difficult. You know what I mean? It's not difficult because of how he is. It's difficult because of who he is.

He's a workhorse. He will work all night and be the first. up in the morning to work again the next day. And one night we got to the town late. We flew from Monday Night Raw to, when we were doing Smackdown on Tuesday, we flew to the next town. We landed like two in the morning.

And I'm like, we've been there all day. And I just can't wait to get in my hotel room bed. And so I started to get off the plane. He was Brian, you got Smackdown? Yes, sir. I sit down.

I pulled it out. We were going over. I said, sir, to be honest with you, I'd really love to talk about this in the morning. He threw it back in my lap and said, you're going to regret that. And I looked over at Kevin Dunn and I said, oh God, I immediately regret saying that.

And Kevin said, you should. And then the next morning, he called me early. I had to go up to his room and we went over the show. And I was like, oh, but I'd gotten some sleep then so it didn't matter. But like he is a workhorse, man. And I couldn't keep up with him. I couldn't keep up with him. And that's the truth.

That's all there was to. And I went to him and said, hey, I feel like I'm losing my serenity, my sobriety might be. like I'm white knuckling my sobriety right now because I'm just on call all the time. You know, everything's, you know, my whole life was Smackdown. It was Smackdown. And that's how you have to be in the WWE. You're married to it.

And so it got hard, you know, and I couldn't hang. And so I went to NXT where I thought I could skate for a little while and I did. But then they needed for business decisions to trim some fat. And look, it's no secret. I've gotten fat. So they cut me to 14 other people. And it was a business strategy thing. Look, I called him and I said, hey, thank you.

You know what I mean? Because not only did he pay me for 10 years and give me 10 years of quality life experiences, he sent me to rehab for free and saved my life. And he did the same for my brother. You know what I mean? Like if you're bitter at that guy, something's wrong with you. And that's, again, going back to the sobriety thing, that's what I'm trying to figure out. When is something wrong with me?

And can't I fix that? You know what I mean? And so, I don't know. He's a great leader. He's a leader of men, that is for sure. And I've been around some in the military. Norman Schwartzcoff, you know, I've been around Colin Powell. And Vince McMahon is a leader of men, know two ways about it.

Men follow him. Men fear him. But the same way fear. used when people say, I fear God. It's just a reference, right? It's like I'm not comparing them to God. I know he does that all the time. Another funny story.

We hit some turbulence one time, and I said, oh, God, please protect us. And Ben said, you're talking to the wrong guy. You would say stuff like that. It just made me laugh, but it would scare me more because I thought we were going down. What did he see in you as a wrestler that he made,

that made him go, you'd be great working in the office. Well, so, so look, to be quite honest, he didn't see anything in me. I know he, oh, hey Lou. I know he did as a wrestler back in the day. He obviously saw something in me. Sure. Yeah.

But Hunter went to him and he had to go to him three times and say, look, I'd like to bring Brian James back. And he said, why? He's a known drug addict. Why would you do that? And that is a totally legitimate point. And he said, well, he's been sober about a year now. And what was great was,

right around that same time, I inducted my father into the Hall of Fame. And so I got to walk out on the empty floor before they set it up. And Kevin and Vince were standing there. And I got to walk up to him and shake his hand and say, thank you for this. This means a lot to me and my family. And so looking people in the eye with clear eyes and with, you know, clear thoughts helped me a ton. He finally said, okay, Paul, but this was on you. When he grabs the bed, this is on you. I came in and I was just on like a six week or a three month period or something like a trial period as a producer. I produced for a little while and then we had some backstage stuff that I helped produce, some fighting backstage and somebody told him like, hey, dog's good at this stuff. And so all of a sudden they said, hey, what do you think about being on the writing team?

And I thought, oh, okay. So I was then I joined the writing team. Well, then I started going to the office every week and I would go to my mind. Monday, Tuesday, TVs, Wednesday, Thursday at the office, Friday morning, fly home. You know what I mean? Still emailing and texting about the show all weekend, but fly home and be home for Saturday, leave again Sunday and do Monday Tuesday. You know what I mean?

So that way for eight years. Like it was a task. Never got to see my kids much, my family much. But I loved what I was doing. It just got to be too much for them, man. Yeah. Do you still keep in touch with Hunter? The old man tapped me out.

Do you still keep in touch with Hunter? How's his health doing? Yeah. So he, well, he texted me on my birthday. And so we texted back and forth a bit on that day. I've kind of tried to let him have his face because I know when I had my deal, I didn't want everybody bothering me. So I haven't bothered him.

He reached out to me on my birthday. I'm appreciative of that. I'll see where it goes from here. He's always had my back. He's always been my friend. on a different level because for the past decade he's been my boss too. So it's a bit of a different relationship because I almost feel like it's fraternization, excuse me, when we're just shooting the breeze.

You know what I mean? I feel like you got to get him at the right time so he can be hunter, your friend. Because believe you me, he's hunter the second in charge, the rest of his life, you know. Yeah. I've always wondered, Brian, What's the tattoo on the back of your head? So it was the story behind it's better than the tattoo itself. It's like a cow skull and the horns are like sewn to my, to my skull. And then it has like, you know, almost like an Indian dream catcher has like feathers hanging from the horns and stuff.

So I went to, it's a true story. And I hope if you have children watching, don't do drugs, children. I was working in Memphis and I was driving to Jonesboro, Arkansas to work. to work with Jerry Lawler. I'd just gotten there. I got back from Germany. So I was working the main event with Lawler. It's just a spot show that wasn't TV or nothing.

I went to the tattoo artist because he was also the guy that I got my weed from. Turns out he had more than just weed. And we went on into the night with tattooing of heads and missing of shows. And the next day I showed up to TV in Memphis. And I told Jerry Lawler I was sick. And he said, yeah, you must have broke out with a tattoo. up back here. Oh, man. Oh, crap. I'm sorry, dude. I'm sorry. He's like, yeah, they told me about you or something. You know what I mean? King was good. King was very cool to me always. But, but that's how

I got there. Look, it's, I could grow it up. I could grow it over, you know, with hair, but then I don't know what my hair, my hair is so naturally curly, I think it would look like an half-road. But that might be cool. It might be coming back, you know. I think you could pull it off. I know I could. It would look like Will Ferrell. from the basketball. Yeah. Yeah. What was that?

Oh, man. We're going to get, everyone in the comments is going to be like, I can't believe you don't know the name of that movie. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm going to look it up here. And his semi, semi pro, there we go.

My bro. And the name of his character, it was something funny too. Don't worry. The internet knows everything. I'm just making myself look stupid at this point. No, the internet knows all. So we will figure

this out. Well, we'll get to this, I guess, and I. Jackie Moon? Jackie Moon. Yeah, and the internet. It knows everything. Let me ask you this. Wasn't there also a Jackie Moon that was the little koala in the movie Sing? Well, now we got to figure this out. Geez. And I don't know who did the voice of the little koala, but the Singh franchise, they're pretty great. They are. I would say to watch them. Buster moon.

Buster moon. Ah, that's right. Man, the internet is undefeated. It's unbelievable. They are. Clever people on there, too. I feel like with everything you accomplished in WWE that the door is probably open for you to go back there eventually.

Well, I don't know that. And I would love that. But I would also be at this stage in my life and knowing what I know now and going forward. I don't know if I can take that. You know what I mean? Not that if I could, it is if I want to. You know what I mean? You're married to the company.

And I've been married to the company for the last decade. And I know it's only been a few months since I got released, but it sure has felt good. Nick Patrick, the referee, said it best when he said, and it felt like I got out of prison when they cut me. And I thought, he's right. It did feel like that, like a weight off your shoulders. But then it felt like that for two reasons. The second one being, holy crap, what do I do now? You know what I mean?

And I'm not a felon. I'm an ex-wrestler. What do I do now? It's about the same. But the thing is like when you're going a mile a minute all the time for 10 years and it comes to a screeching halt, I mean, what do you do? Yeah. Well, look, I, thank goodness, I have 10 acres of pastured property.

I raised miniature goats and I have miniature kids. Yeah. Yeah. So I, and I just bought two new puppies that are sheep or goat dog, like goat protection dogs that were raising them up and training them to protect the goats. And it's just, look, it's just fun to get out. I love, I'm a John Deer guy. I love cutting grass.

It's my happy place. I like to cut grass out in one of the far pastures and like look over my property and just be thankful. You know what I mean? Like, this is mine. And now I got to figure out how to keep. You know what I think? I feel like you and Brock have a lot to talk about.

Bringing me back. Now's a good time. Or I can do color commentary at AEW. I could also do the promos backstage. This is like a job interview, I feel. Chris, thank you for giving me this opportunity. Yeah, we'll be in touch, Brian. Thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you. Go call us. We'll call you. I feel like with the goat talk, you and Brock Lesnar would have a lot in common. Oh, yeah, we probably could. He probably want to eat my goats on one of his. You know, he's got like seven green. Those green egg things.

He's got them all over his property. Yeah, yeah. He has them all over his property. So no matter where he goes, he can like grill a dead animal if he wants to. Like that's a man. That's an alpha man. He just wears their fur as through the winter. When people bring up the idea of DX and NWO and want to compare the two,

what do you say to that? Well, look, I get the comparison. Harrison, I think they came at the same time. I just think one of them, to me, and of course I'm biased because I was in one, I just thought we were kind of cool because we were distinct, and that was us. I felt like they added people every chance they got and split into different,

you know what I mean? It was like, I liked it when it was just Hogan and the outsiders. You know what I mean? It was like, oh, but then all of a sudden there's now fish off and now Belf Bagwell, and now Dennis Rodman. Yeah, yeah, Dennis Rodman, like missed a practice to go or missed a Gamer to go and wear it in W.O. I just felt like it got kind of bastardized. And I felt like DX is kind of solid.

I realized we traded us out for Sean Michaels, but then Sean got added back in when we got removed. So I felt like, I don't know, I just felt like we were cooler. Sorry. Whose idea was it to bring you and Billy in originally? Well, so who we heard it from? was Hunter and Sean. And since I've dug back into this, it's been, and I haven't called Sean to ask him yet. I've just been speculating. This was about the time Sean was going away to get back surgery. And so my, again, my speculation is he was going to go. They had just gotten a really

good start. And what do you do now? It's just Hunter and China. And that's a cool package. But it's not as cool as, you know, so they saw, we were, we were climbing at the time and we were climbing quickly. You know what I mean? That's what? If you go back in time, you realize for the time they put us together, me and Billy, to the time we joined DX was about three months. I mean, it was, it was record fast. And I didn't realize that until I dug back in and started watching. I was like, holy mackerel, they put us, and they put us right with DX. And we were the tag, you know, title holders, members of DGeneration, race, and X. And we were on top of the world. And it was, it was awesome. for me. Yeah, and that like you guys being thrown together is one thing and, you know,

getting over, but then being thrown into DX like catapults you. Yeah. Well, look, it was also, you've got to give credit where credits do. And I know a lot of the talent doesn't like to do this, but the writers and the bookers, they're the ones that booked us in a position to where it wouldn't make us look out of like fish out of water if they put us with the X. They had four months, three months to really put a rocket on us. And they did that. We came in and we started beating every tag team, beating them up, shaving their head, taking their shoulder pads, taking their cowboy hats. I mean, we basically just annihilated the whole tag team division and kind of joked on

them too. And they wrote that in for us, you know what I mean? So it wasn't hard to get over when you're on TV in such a positive light so many weeks in a row, you know what I mean? But you had so many gimmicks leading up to that point. Did you think that the New Age Outlaws would be the gimmick? No, heavens, no. I just knew the roadie, excuse me, the real double J wasn't going anywhere. And Billy knew Rockabilly wasn't going anywhere. And to be totally honest, we both said,

put us together. We have good chemistry, not knowing or having a clue how it was going to turn out. But we did have good chemistry. We did have good timing together. We did have good, I don't know how to say it other than like communication without words. You know what I mean? Like I know where it would be, when he's going to do something and he knows where to be vice versa. So it was just if the chemistry was there, then we just had to get in there and see. And we were totally opposites too. That's one thing I loved is we were doing.

We were totally not bookends. I was, you know, a skinny guy with braids and stuff. And he was this jack dude, just a great athlete. And so he went to the gym all the time. I never went to the gym. He liked to look good. I like to feel good.

So we were totally opposites. And that's maybe part of the key to the success, you know. And I mean, I see it. Every time I've seen you at a convention, the fans still eat like they eat this up. Like nostalgia may be the most powerful drug, Brian. Man, it is. And look, it's good for me too because it feels really good to stand there and go,

man, there's a line for these 55 and older guys. You know what I mean? Who wrestled before some of these people in line were born. You know what I mean? But they got the new action figure. They got the new whatever. And they're coming. get their stuff signed and have that experience.

And look, that's what me and Billy, when we started doing these conventions, we literally ate dinner one night. I said, hey, I want our experience to be. I said, people are paying for the experience. And right now they're paying crazy to me, but they are paying it. I want to give them an experience they walk away from and don't ever forget. So it's what do we do? How do we do that?

And Billy's just like, let's just be us, man. Let's just have fun. And look, I have my T.D. Jake's towel because I'm, sweating to death, but I'm working and I'm trying to be entertaining and I'm trying to mess with Billy. You know, and it's just, I want people to walk away from us going, oh my gosh, those guys were so much fun. And I don't know. So we try to make, we call it the New Age Outlaw experience. You're definitely the loudest table in the room. That's for sure. Yes. Usually because of me or Austin is at the table next to us, Austin and Colt. But yes, I'm definitely the loudest guy in the room.

But that's by design. You know what I mean? I want you to know I'm there. I like the sound of my voice. Well, the thing is you're an 11 out of 10 on the energy scale. And then Billy's an 11 out of 10. So puts you guys together. Yeah.

Oh, man. He's so great. I just spent this past weekend with him and Paula and his wife, for those of you don't know, in Jacksonville. We did that Jacksonville. We just went in there on our own because we didn't have anybody taking us. We just got some tables. We did really well.

But more than that, It's just great to hang out with them, man, and went out to eat with Colton and just great friends, man. Like I said, we weren't great friends when we first teamed up. We really weren't because we were so opposite. But then we kind of, when I said grew up together, I mean, we both got sober. You know what I mean? We both got out of hand and then we both got right around the same time. And so we've grown up together, man.

And for the last 11 years for me, 10 and a half for him, maybe 11 for him too at this point, tell you the truth. we're brothers. We're literally like brothers. Like I'm closer with him than I am with my brothers right now. And of course, it's because I spend a lot of time with him, but I can tell him anything. You can tell me anything.

It's a, it's a love, dude. That's, that's, it's not weird at all. I love that you guys have the trademark for New Age outlaws. Like that just feels like, just feels like WWE just drop the ball there.

You picked it up. Yeah. Look, I think DX is. probably their bigger commodity. But yeah, me too. I was surprised by that as well. So we'll see if that works out for us.

You own it now. Yeah, you're on tires now. What are we going to do? I mean, even though you're not working there, you're still getting royalty checks from WWE for DX stuff, right? 100%. Yeah, yeah. And also, I'm on a sign to Legends deal.

So I can still, excuse me, they can still do stuff with me. I still get the royalties. everything. So yeah, yeah, I wanted to keep my relationship with them really good, even if I went to somewhere else to work, which, you know, like I said earlier, I'd love to do that. I'd love to work with promo guys backstage at AEW because it's just new talent. Well, half open to NXT talent I've worked with in the past, but I would love to, it's a new child, something challenging, you know what I mean? Well, you've got a good friend that works there. I'm sure you can make some comments.

I do, I do. Daniel Bryan is a good friend of mine. That's who I was referring to. you, yeah. I think it's in Brian Davis anyway. Yeah, I'm so sorry. Obviously, we're not through good of friends. Yeah. Have you been backstage there yet? I have not. I have not been there at all. I was looking forward to the opportunity in Vegas. But I ended up canceling my show out there. So I didn't end up going. But I was looking forward to and just kind of meeting everybody. Like I said, I know all the producers and no, but there's a lot of talent there that I don't know. But I'd love to, I'd love to try to help out. You know what I mean? I just don't have. much else it's either hey let me tell you how to cut this promo or do you want fries with that check you

know what i mean it's just my two options i don't know i'm sure you're making enough goat money at all these signings there there there is uh there is some money being transferred on these signings uh and and thank goodness i'm also still under severance with uh wwee so with that stops i'll really get scared but but i think uh with the podcast and uh the oh you didn't know podcast i don't know if you knew i had a podcast didn't know. Oh, you did know. My ass better call somebody. Yes, you called someone. But I forgot what we were talking about again because I've tried to get a gratuitous plug it. We can bring her back around full circle to how we started the conversation, which is, oh, you didn't know. Perfectly. That works perfect. Yep. I don't know what we were talking about. It's cool, though. I'm just,

let's just hang out for a minute. That's what we're doing. This is great. No, I've thoroughly enjoyed this, Brian. I have to, Chris. Like I said, at the beginning. I don't know if I said it on the air. I do appreciate you having me on because hopefully my podcast will grow in a way that I don't have to lose weight and take bumps. And you've given me this opportunity is appreciated. I just want to say thank you. Well, the pleasure is mine. And I'm so glad it was able to spend some time with you and hear your story. Like, I appreciate you being so open and honest. And I think that. Well, look, I don't know how else to be. I'm an open book and you can you can like it or you can not like it.

but that's me and it's one thing I've learned in my sobriety. It's none of my business, what you'll think about me. You know what I mean? I'll try to do the best I can and be the best I can. I can't control what you think about me. I'll just do me. You know what I mean? And that's what I'm doing now.

I'm loving it. I love this. And I just want to acknowledge you because there's going to be a lot of people that are listening to this who may be struggling in their own life. And hearing you open up about this, maybe we'll make them turn their life around. Well, look, there's a, oh, I know, I'm just saying the podcast now and I can't get around it. But I talk a lot about my anxieties.

Look, I have a ton of anxieties. Billy does as well, and we often talk about it to each other. And see, that's the kind of, I got somebody. You know what I mean? I got somebody I can talk to. I got somebody that will be my sounding board and will call me on my bull crap too. You know what I mean? Not just tell me, oh, yeah, Brian, you're good.

No, dude, you shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't have done that, whatever. And I got, you should always ask for help. It's big in our society that asking for help makes a man look weak. and it couldn't be any further from the truth. It actually shows the strength of a man who can reach out and say, I can't do this on my own. I need help.

I'd suggest that's where you start, man, as for help. Yeah. Look, I end every conversation talking about gratitude because it's such an important thing to me. I start and end every day saying out loud three things I'm grateful for. So, Brian, for you, what are three things that you're grateful for in your life? Oh, man. I look, family and friends, of course, is one. The health of my children and grandchildren is definitely one.

And then look, my sobriety is definitely what I'm thankful for. If I get right down to it, there's not much more important than the things I just listed. And if I overthink it, I get outside my hula hoop and I don't belong out there. Does that make sense? That is the best analogy. I love that. Yeah, yeah. I got to keep it tight.

I got to keep my circle tight. I got to keep my thought processes only on my priorities. I can dance around and do some other things, but what's the most important thing? And don't ever forget that. And I forgot it for 42 years of my life. I'm never going to forget it again. Yeah, I love that.

And what a great way to end. So, Brian, thank you again. And wherever people are listening to this right now, they can listen to, oh, you didn't know. Could you say it, you know, the way you're supposed to say it? Oh, you didn't know. I said that again on the panel the other day. And they were like, you still got it.

And I was like, it's not that hard to, I didn't lose it anywhere. But yeah, I appreciate it. Chris, thank you so much for this. How good was that? Man, huge thank you to Brian James for such a great conversation. And thank you, as always, for being with us on this episode as we celebrate the three-year anniversary of the podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend and take a screenshot, tag us on social media so we can share it as well. And if you like this episode, by the way, there's 350 other episodes just like this in the

back catalog with pro wrestlers, actors, athletes, comedians, an astrophysicist, an FBI negotiator. So many good ones. And speaking of good ones, Road Dog's podcast is such a good one. Go check it out. Oh, you didn't know is what it's called. I think you're going to love it. I will leave you with a quote that I love so much.

I think this applies to what Road Dog was talking about here. It's from Jaquita McManus. It says, we are not defined by our mistakes, but how we react to them and the life journey we create despite them. Be great and be grateful. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes.

So I don't want to hear from. you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here.

The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.