Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Santino Marella Got Everyone To Break Character! Mispronouncing Names, Stone Cold, The Cobra

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Get your tickets for INSIGHT LIVE in LA and NYC with VIP Meet & Greet! Santino Marella (@milanmiracle) is a professional wrestler currently signed to TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at ACW in Oshkosh, WI to discuss his favorite comedic moments and mispronunciations, how he became TNA's Director of Authority and was able to keep his WWE name, working with his daughter Arianna Grace, the inspiration for the Santino walk, the Cobra battle with Mick Foley and Mr. Socko, a possible Hall of Fame induction and more! Quote I'm thinking about: “Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection.” – Mark TwainPlease support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux  SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount   TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv  HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.comMIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Oh, yes, welcome back, my friends, to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for tuning into this episode. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit the cobra on that follow button on Spotify or Apple or wherever you're listening right now so you don't miss out on anything. and you know that if it's the cobra, they can't kick out. Only one person ever kicked out of the cobra when Santino had the sleeve on.

Remember who it was? If you said Daniel Bryan, yes, you are correct. I will be seeing a lot of you this Friday for Insight Live in Los Angeles just one day before Money in the Bank. We just announced a special guest. It's a big one. None other than the current NXT North American champion and a guy I'm honored to call my friend,

All-Ego, Ethan Page. It's going to be a blast. Grab your tickets at CVV-V-Tix.com, CV-V-T-I-X.com. There's also just a few select VIP tickets remaining, which includes a meet-and-greet after the show, and I can't wait to hang out with you and chat wrestling with you,

CVV-T-I-X.com. Santino Morella is such a legend, and it's been far too long since he was last on the show. when you think of the Mount Rushmore of comedy performers, I think Santino is on everyone's list. He's had so many incredible moments throughout his career, both serious and comedic.

I mean, think about his debut. Coming out of the crowd, beating Umaga for the Intercontinental Championship, everyone thinking that Santino was actually Italian when he was Canadian. I mean, think about all the times he got people to break character and mispronouncing everyone's name. He actually mispronounces my name during this interview here, and it's fantastic. I loved it. The fun stuff he did with Beth Phoenix, almost winning the Royal Rumble in 2011, and then

getting so close to beating Daniel Bryan at Elimination Chamber in 2012, the moment I was just talking about where he hit him with a cobra. Everyone thought it was over. One, two, two, and three quarters out. How did he kick out? And now he's doing great stuff in TNA as the director of authority. also working a few matches here and there, and we saw him make his WWE return

at Vengeance Day earlier this year. He is awesome. I love this chat. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening and tag us. He's at the Milan Miracle on Instagram. He's at just Milan Miracle, no the on X. I'm at Chris Van Fleet.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Santino Morella. Santino. always good to see you my pleasure always no it's uh you're looking jacked look at the size of this man oh yeah it's it is the shirt but i do train yes i train religiously you know and i get to the jiu jitsa gym if i can three times a week but sometimes it's once or twice and then we have a incredible gym at home that you know i try and go to daily and do something if i'm not like a couple days ago i went kayaking with my my daughter's and it's an hour kayak and which is a

tremendous workout. Or we go bike riding. So we're super active at home and we have a really recreational lifestyle that we enjoy, you know, skiing in the winter and kayaking in the summer and bike riding. And it's fun. And we have small kids, so we have to show them these things. And by showing them, you got to do it with them. So it kind of keeps you young as well. It's the founding youth. Like being active. Yeah, motion is lotion. Yeah. Movement is medicine. All those things. They're all true. It is so true. But great to see you. I say this every time we do an interview, but there will be people in the comments that are like, what do you mean? He doesn't have an accent. What's going on? Of course I do. Come on.

I love that you can just flip it on like that. Yeah. People are like, he's not Italian? He's Canadian? Yeah, and I used to be Russian, too. That's right. And there were times in OVW. I would go out and I'd be in character as Boris Alexia, like the whole night just talking to meeting people and just in character and just to pop to guys. But there was one girl, because she liked Boris. Like, she actually liked for us. And then later on in the night, I was kind of like speaking in my regular voice. And she was like so upset. Like, she started liking that guy. And realizing that person doesn't exist. Who's this jerk that's left behind? You know, so she was a little upset. Do people like find there's a, like, it's a hard divide between Anthony and Santino? Well, you know, there's probably a lot

of Anthony in the character Santino. It's funny. My wife says that I'm not funny. But she says like, you know, Santino's funny. I'll give you credit. But you know, Santino's funny. I'll give you credit. You know, you're not funny. I'm like, I am, Santino. What are you talking about? So anyway, but I guess there's elements of me that are blown up in the character Santito, right? But it's something about the way you say things, right?

Yeah, yeah. So my generation is really unique when a lot of the Europeans came to Canada after World War II, whether they came as children or in their 20s, and then they had children. and that their children is my generation. So all of our parents, a lot of our parents, I went to a Catholic school, and I'm going to guess 90% of the parents of the kids in my school were not born in Canada,

and they're all from Poland, Malta, Croatia, Portugal, Italy. We've got the Catholic countries and stuff. And so they were all, like if I went to another country right now, let's say I moved to Croatia. And my kids would learn Croatian in a couple years probably. And I would have probably mess it up for the rest of my life at some capacity. And so it's the equivalent. You know, the parents never really got the grammar down perfect.

And that was my, like, that was my, I had unlimited material to choose from. Like, my next door neighbor is Sanamagan Ivan. He is Croatian, actually. That's where, and, you know, so it's funny. He knew he was a taper, plaster and taper. And I told him one time, he said, hey, my character says Sanamagan on. TV and he's like, you have to give me money. He already knew about royalties and everything.

I don't know how we knew it, but he knew he was entitled to something. Well, son, him again, so fitting for so many different situations. Yes, yeah, yeah. If you get angry, you're son of my God. Or if something happens, you're shocked you. Son of my gun. What are some of your favorite Santino cash phrases? Um, well, um, those are the bottom lines was a funny one.

And the reason it was funny is because Stone Cold put a spotlight on it and said, it's, that's the bottom line. And I, we were off script too. And I was like, well, sometimes I have more than one thing to say. And I saw him kind of bite his lip a little bit. And so the things that were brought to light or that were focused on, those are, people remember those. But I still, to this day, I'm constantly trying to come up with, you've watched Trailer Park

boys? Yeah. You know how. Look, us being good Canadians. Yeah, how Ricky messes up phrases. And it's funny because I saw that. I go, hey, it's like me, right? And there's an art to it, you know, to kind of say things in a way that it's understandable or excusable that, okay, I can see how he made that mistake.

You know, because that's kind of how it sounds. And as a person who's, you know, new to learning the language, you could see how they might interpret it as something like that. I saw you at TNA in Irvine, California. And you said something that made me just bust out. You were like, it's you and a partner of your choicing. And I was like, man, that's classic Santino. Yeah, choice. Yeah.

And there was one, oh, God, Jacques Fritian, remember our former prime minister. And he even did something one where he was like, say, I'm going to lower the taxes. I'm going to do this. And he goes, I'm told you, I just get warm up. And I'm like, perfect. I'll borrow that one. And I actually got it in. in WWE, I said, first I'm going to kick you in the stomach, then I'm going to punch your face,

and I'm told you I just get warmed up. And you took that from the prime minister. The prime minister. And I don't even know if anybody even caught on. I have some friends that knew because we always joked about the way he said it. But I'm telling you, there's inspiration all around you, you know? I think back to like, I'm a big UFC fan. I think back to that promo with GSP.

Yeah. And like he said the words correctly, but the emphasis that he put on the words, I am not impressed by your performance. Yeah, yeah. I get what you're saying, but like, it was the way that he said it, like the classic line. It's funny. French Canadian, well, no, sorry, speaking English with a French Canadian accent is like my favorite version of English. And so I went to University of Montreal, too, so I was surrounded by it a lot. And on the national judo team, there were a lot of guys from, you know, Quebec, northern Quebec, really strong accents. And it's interesting because they're using, like you said, the correct words, but they may not be the more, more, the most popular words.

It's like, ah, yeah, it makes sense. We don't usually say it like that, but it is correct. And I love it because it's a, it's a great way to, it's an alternative way to speak, and it's accurate as well. That's Santino in a nutshell. Yeah, yeah. That's it. And you're doing such fun stuff in TNA as you're like, you're like a GM, but you've put a whole new spin on this. Where did you get this idea that you're going to wear the badge and you're going to be the DOA? Yeah, I mean, when I first got a call, so I mean, Scott Dormor kind of asked me to if I was interested a few times and just timing wasn't right. And then coming out of COVID, really, I'm like, you know what? I think it's the time, you know, everything kind of lined up, talked to my wife.

And we went back in. So anyway, I got a call from Robert Evans, who was one of the writers at the time. And he had this vision of the director of authority. And he got, you know, we started talking about that FBI kind of, in the beginning, I was wearing like tactical pants. and I had like an FBI jacket, which someone scooped. And then stole your jacket? Yeah, yeah. Like a fan?

I don't know. It was actually at, we had some couple TNA shows at battle arts back in the day. And during cleanup, someone, someone scooped it. So, yeah. But, um, so if we see it on eBay. Yeah. Geez, call the police. Yeah.

It was one of one. Um, and then we switched to, you know, yeah, or the tracksuits, which came in super handy. where it's one of our sponsors, but being able to wear a uniform on a weekly basis that just saves so much decision-making. What am I going to wear? I have a uniform. I wear the tracks suit with the badge,

and it's good for now anyway. Your theme song's almost like a bumbling detective. Right. That's the first thing I thought of was like a 1980s detective show. And it sounds like the beginning of an old TV show, yeah. Like get smart or something like that. Yeah, you're just like Maxwell smart. Kind of what that feels like.

I'm not sure that is actually. You don't know, get smart? It gets smart. You don't remember. This is amazing. Wow. He had like a shoe phone that he talked on. I'm sure if I showed you, you'd be like, oh, that guy, I know what you're talking about.

He was like making fun of all the like spy shows that existed. Oh, like a spoo for a parody. But it was a hilarious thing. With what you're doing now in TNA and the crossover with NXT, you got to work with your daughter. Right. How amazing was that? That was, yeah. I mean, so she had an old.

boxing injury from years ago that kind of got, it got worse a little bit. And actually, it was a big match for her. It was at the Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto. And it was big for our whole family. And she felt a little tear. So anyway, she got it addressed. I think it was about a four-month recovery. So she's, you know, she wasn't going to sit there idle. And she pitched that she actually made this whole thing happen. And it was a really good learning experience for her how to to orchestrate things, so to speak. And so for example, if she went directly to her writers, they may have accepted it with a certain amount of weight.

But she kind of went to me, and I went to Ariel, and Ariel went to the writer. And because it came from Ariel, it had a lot more weight to it. And it happened. And I'm like, do you see what you used it? You just orchestrated this. This is, you know, your career can be like this in a nutshell. You can orchestrate opportunities by talking to people, pitching ideas, selling people behind the scenes on something you want to do.

And then you make it a reality. I'm like, just mental note, save that. That's how you do it. And it was a huge learning experience for her. And the byproduct is we get to work together, which is incredible. I didn't think it would happen this quickly. I kind of thought it happened a couple of years from now, but it's awesome, man. I get to, you know, I say goodbye to a couple kids at home and go to work and see another kid.

and it's awesome, man. And the crowd notes, like the crowd is so tuned in that they know, that's Santino's daughter. Wait a second, Santino's on screen with her? That's so cool.

Yeah, it was universally accepted as a feel-good moment for the industry when we appeared on screen. In the beginning, I think we wanted to, like, kind of talk around it, you know, say things like,

oh, you look familiar or I like the way you think and not really say dad or daughter. and then, you know, if people were wondering why I was getting upset if something happened to her, then there was going to be that big moment where I'm like, because that's my daughter, I get that payoff, right? But someone from social media on TNA put out immediately like, father and daughter reunited.

We're like, oh, man, they deleted it, but, you know, I mean, people know anyway. Yeah. And I understand, you know, using it in a storyline. We also don't want to assault the intelligence of the fans. You know, it's very obvious. Not obvious to look at, but I think it's just common knowledge. And it seems she's got some of your comedic chops, too. She's better than me, man.

She's something special, you know. She was identified from a young child as just exceptional with regards to her speech, her presence, you know, and luckily she turned out pretty too, right? Because that's kind of a, you know, you're born with that or not, right? I mean, you can work on it, I guess, but she's tall. She's athletic. So she's, when she finished her degree, we kind of, for the first time ever, like, we never talked about it before.

She finished university. And like, do you want to do this? She was like, you think I, like, you actually think I can do this? And then, of course, this is not rocket science. It just takes dedication and hard work, which is, you know, that's, anyone can do that. You don't have to have a, you don't have to be naturally gifted to be a hard worker. and be dedicated. So when you have these natural raw abilities

and this potential and you apply, all she had to do, in my opinion, was be the hardest worker in the room. And she became the hardest worker in the room. So her first tryout, it was, she was not ready. And she didn't get hired. And then the switch went off. And she just, she packed up, moved to Orlando.

She was training at multiple schools, busted her ass, got in great shape. And then when she received another tryout, she just blew them away. And she was like the talk of the tryout. She got hired from that. And she was just in shape. And this time she was ready, you know. And so it was no freebies, right?

And when you're a second generation talent, the idea of receiving a freebie is like a horrible thing to be accused of. And I mean, some people will understand also that you're going to be given enough. opportunity, but it's up to you to capitalize on the opportunity. But, and I remember talking with Cody when he was younger, that was like one of the worst things you could say to him ever was you're only here because your dad. So he became like super hardworking and to eliminate, to remove the potential for someone to even say that. And I think he's done a great job working so hard that no one could say that to him anymore.

Sometimes you want to go in the exact office. direction. For example, what Dustin did with gold dust. Like, I want to be as far removed from dusty as possible. Your daughter is leaning into the comedy, which is tough because you're one of the greatest to ever do it. So now people are going to go, oh, that's Santino's daughter. Is she going to be as funny as Santino? Oh, I see, yeah, the comparison. Yeah. And we talked about it at the beginning. I just said, look, just be a little careful with the comedy. Because if it's too goofy, it reduces the perception of your ability to be a contender, a legitimate contender. So we have to know that going in, that there has to be a way that you can still be someone who's

going for a title, there'll still be someone who's capable in the ring. Like, his way to be funny and not be an idiot. I know, I've been on both sides. And I remember Triple H said it to me once, and it was one thing that stuck with me forever. When you're a comedy wrestler and you're a bad guy, the joke's on you. When you're a good guy, the joke's on them. And now I think she's transitioning to a good guy.

So she has to also transition to being able to put the joke on the bad guys. Because when it's on you for too long, it does diminish the perception of your ability. Yeah, how did you balance it? You know, Santino was the kind of character. He can show moments of brilliance, and then he'd have to relinquish it, you know, give it up in some entertaining fashion.

I had to limit my technical ability, so to speak, to fit with the character. But once in a while, I'll show that little nice takedown, a reversal, or something, and then give it up. Because when I was, I was a bad guy for a few years before the audience kind of just appreciated the comedy

to the point where they turned me into a good guy. But I was so goofy during that bad guy time that it took some work to get the people to believe that he's capable of winning. And then, yeah, it took some work, but we got them. Making money moves should be easy. And that's why this cash app, it's fast, safe, and honestly just way more personalized than other apps out there. No extra hoops to jump through. No extra stress. all of the tools are right there to help you cash in.

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Download the app today and use the code Insight to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. That's code Insight to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize Picks, run your game. Your wrestling skills. in a way had to devolve, right? Because you debut and it's like, man, this guy is a shooter,

like do not mess with him, wins the championship in his debut. But then you have to kind of devolve to like the comedy character can't be an incredible wrestler in the ring. So like, it's almost like you had to forget some of the things you do. Yeah, you do.

And the best you'll ever be is when you are training, you know, to be a wrestler. Because you want to try everything. You want to try every move. You want to, there's so many different people that you looked up to you want to emulate a little bit you want to you we can have a match and say oh you know what I'm going to try something

if it fits you know and then once you are recognizable or over then people want to see your patented stuff so just by that alone you're using you know 80% of your matches might be 20% of what you know um so yeah you have to yeah like when i was training to be a wrestler i did not train to be santino i wanted to be like a you know, a Kurt Angle or a DeMelanco or Chris Benoit, the range is intense and submissions and grappling.

And that's the way I wrestled in Japan too. And, you know, I recognized the value of the opportunity, right? It's a once-a-lifetime opportunity to get here and then to solidify this position as the comedy wrestler. So, yeah, I mean, it was a privilege, and I had to also let go of something to hold on to that. What was the first glimpse that we saw of the comedy in you? Yeah, I remember the exact moment, actually.

Well, the baby-faced Santino was around for a few months, I think, April, May, June, July. So somewhere in a few months in the summer, the audience was, as you know, the WWE universe does not like to be force-fed, anything. They will spit it out. And they were being forced-fed, this new guy who was in the audience. and he beat Chris Masters and he beat Shelton Benjamin and he pulled off a victory against this guy and that guy. They're like, yeah, right, BS, you know. Like, don't tell us to like this guy.

And then I had a match with Amaga where he regained the intercontinental championship. And he's like murdering me. And they were like, one more time. When I was like, they wanted like, they were like thumbs down, kill this guy. And I'm like, and then I guess they had the conversation where they said, okay, if the audience is not kind of accepting this,

let's. Turn a bad guy, I guess. And if that doesn't work, maybe see you later. I don't know. And the moment I turned into a bad guy and complained with the accent, apparently, you know, Vince was popped, right? He's funny. He thought it was.

Because as soon as I turned bad and I had, I got the mic as a bad guy, I had the mic every week, guest commentary, in-ring promos. So, you know, I popped the right guy. And I was giving the ball. and Michael Hayes said it once you know every promo is like a first down getting first down first down first down

and then you worked up to getting in the ring with Stone Cold Steve Austin and he's like you've been getting all these first downs can you cross the goal line now we're watching you know and that was an awesome segment and I remember backstage Vince looked at me and he went like this

wow like he just went up a level and I was like oh I know what that means man and yeah it was those days were crazy because it was just like, when I debuted, it was welcome to the team. Now go home and pack your bags. Like, you're on the road now. And I was on like every live event, mostly, like 95% of live events. And it was it. It was pack your bags. And I remember coming home, taking my 30 laundry, washing machine, dryer, back in the bag, out the door for like years and years and years and years.

And it's funny when you look at some recognizable figures in wrestling, and you're like, yeah, they were on raw for like five years. Like, what? I was the road longer than that. Like, it wasn't the company for 10 years. And you don't realize at the time because you're just so focused on what you're doing. But yeah, I'm proud of the 10-year career there. Was it hard to let go of the idea that you wanted to be the serious wrestler

and lean into the comedy? Well, I let go of it pretty early on, you know. So, like, like, in the, the first five months and the whole remaining time there was was embracing Santino you know some of the best work as Santino was mispronouncing names so I have a list here I want to see if you still remember the mispronunciations the honky-tongue man oh the honky donkey man and the reason I might remember them is just fans tell me all the time okay uh Roddy Piper Rodney the Piper

Gold dust. Golden dust. Some of them I might not remember. We'll see. Kelly Kelly. Oh, Kelly, Kelly. John Sina. I saw him at the elimination chamber,

and I forgot to ask him, does everyone call you John Chana? Did they come up to you and say, Hey, John Chana? Because people, I'll get it 100 times today. People come up to me and say, John, how's John Chana? And he must get it all the time.

I got to find John, if you're watching this, does everyone call you John Chana? I got to know. I see that all the time. I can never call him John Cena anymore. People, yeah. Yeah, people say they cannot call him John Cena. Doesn't Chana mean plate?

Chana is how you pronounce Sina. Oh. It means dinner. Dinner. Oh, dinner. Yeah, yeah. John Dinner. Ray Mysterio.

Remastrio. He's in my phone as Ray Mastrio. Kane. Kane, which means dog. in the time. This is great. Randy Orton. Oh, Randy Orton, right?

That's just the pronunciation. Yeah. Cody Rhodes. That's Colby Rhodes, right? Yes. Colby Rhodes. What about Stone Cold Cold? Cold Stone, Steve Austin.

See, that's what I mean. Those are understandable, right? But they're all understandable, but they're all hilarious. Sanino, the, Santino has a speech in Parliament. That's what he calls it. Shamous. Shammuz. So I think backstage, some guys still call him Shammuz because of that.

Shammutes. The singer, Akon. Acorn. Now, he did, I don't think he got the Iggy with regards to the fact that I, my character mispronounce his names. I think he wasn't impressed. But I kind of went up to him backstage. Hey, just so you know, like, that's the thing I do.

Like, I didn't call you acorn on TV. Like, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. respectful. I'm not sure if anyone smartened him up, but yeah, he didn't look too impressed. Snoop Dog. Oh, Snoopy the dog. This is so much fun.

How about Batista? That's one of my favorites. Baptista. Hey, Baptista. Look at me. I'm shooting lasers. That's one of my favorite promos ever, because the sound effects, like, choo-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-too. Because those are the sound effects we did as kids when we're playing with toys.

shooting the lasers out of your hands, right? Yeah. Wasn't he the manimal? The mannimal, Baptista. He snuck up behind me. So before my neck surgery, I used to do this inhale scream. It was like a, ah! And I can't do it now as well because whatever, your neck surgery messes with your vocal

cords a bit. But I was able to do it in that, that pre-tape. Johnny Knoxville. Oh, Knockville. One knock. Johnny Knoxville. That's a good one. I forgot about that one.

Johnny Knockville. What about Molina? Oh, Melina. I guess we stumped you finally. We called her Melanie. Melanie? That's funny. So my daughter is Milena, but when I use Siri, it says Melina.

If it's reading back my text and she's like, oh, my name's not Melina? Yeah. You stumped me in the last? That was the last one. That was the last one. Oh, I'm the last one. I might have missed a few here. That's so Santino to come so close.

I'll give you a few more. We'll deem yourself. Theodore Long. Teddy, Teddy, Teddy, Teddor Long? Yes. Teddy Dor Long. Todd Grisham. Oh, Todd Grishams.

Yes. Do you have the actual correct answers to? Yes. Oh, no, no. Oh, okay. I think we've done almost all of them here. Who have I left off of here? Fandango.

Fandingo. Fandingo. So at TNA, it's like, if I'm working with someone for the first time, They get excited about like, well, what are you going to call me? You know, that kind of thing. So Josh Alessandro was Josh Alessander. Jordan Grache instead of Jordan Grace. So there's a whole bunch of guys at TNA that I, even Robert Stone last week.

I called him Rob Stoner. What about, I feel like there's at least one more here. I feel like there should be at least one more. Oh, Chris Jericho. Oh, Jaringo. And then what was Y2J? Y2J. No, he was KYJ.

Oh, KYJ, KYJ. Yes, yes, yes. What would you call me? What would Santino call me? Oh, Chris Van Filet. That's so good. You got everybody to break character. Was there anybody you didn't get to break?

Hmm. Well, it's funny because some guys, like, for example, Mark Henry, backstage. spitting out his water laughing. But when he goes out there, he flicks that switch. And he's like, he would not break character on TV. He is scary when he's out there. He scared the hell of him to me once in Gorilla just by saying, like, hey, just so you know, when I go out there, I'm undestructible.

Protect yourself. And I was like, oh, my God. What's supposed to happen? And then he's like, ah, I'm just messing with you, man. I'm like, don't do that. So he's the one guy that you couldn't get to break? Not in the ring. Backstage, you know, but some guys they can flick that switch.

And when they're out there, they're on, you know. Seamus was fighting for his life during that Tea Party segment. The lip bite and everything. It came to the point where we actually had a meeting where Vince was saying, like, if you laugh, it's okay. He's funny. Like, we don't have to, it's not a, it's not necessarily a mistake because it's a natural reaction to someone like that to laugh at them. Was this before or after you got Vince to break? Probably after, I guess.

Because you got him to break. Which one? Something back. I think when you were talking about, you were Santina. And you got him to break backstage. He's funny. Miss him. You did some fun stuff as Santina.

Santina was funny because it was only like, I think it was like three months. But there was so many memorable moments. you know, crammed into three months. It was supposed to be one night. But it was, again, it tickled the funny bone of the right person. And it ended up lasting for three months. But I tell you what, I got a lot of respect for the makeup process that girls go through, like an hour.

The fake lashes are hard. It's no joke, man. Your face is like burning from like makeup and stuff. Like it's, yeah, they go through a lot. Fantina's name gets brought up every year for the women's royal. rumble. It's like, is Santina's music going to hit? Is she going to win this thing again? Is that a possibility?

Oh, man, not if I have my way. I remember they called me in 2020 to do the rumble. And it's like the ease that goes, you might be Santino and Santina. And I was like, ah, okay, he doesn't really want to be Santina. Why don't you want to be Santina?

You know, it's the outfit and, you know, it's a little bit embarrassing too. It's just something I've comfortably put behind me. But then when I got there, they're like, yeah, you're not going to be Santino, just Santina. I'm like, ah. So anyway, of course, whatever I'm given, I'll do the best, you know, the best I can. But, uh, yeah, I'm kind of comfortable putting her to bed. But it's one of those things. I get it everywhere I go. And people like, and they, like, they nudge their friend,

like, watch this. Hey, how's your sister? And, uh, I got to go. You know what I do, though? I get serious and go, actually, you just missed her. She's right over there. And that moment, like, that seriousness makes them be like, what? Like, you know, they thought they were going to be funny. And all of a sudden they got confused because I said she's just around the corner. You just missed her. What was the original conversation about creating Santina?

Well, the storyline with Beth Phoenix was that, you know, I was an insecure boyfriend. She was the alpha in the relationship. And I was desperately trying to show that men are better athletes. So by dressing up as a woman and winning the battle royal and then revealing, ha ha, I'm a man, I just won the women's battle royal, therefore men are better athletes. That was the idea. And then it was executed so well that it stuck around for a while. I think you really brought the best out of Beth Phoenix with all the stuff you guys did together.

In fact, when I had her on the show, she credited you for a lot of that stuff and like people being able to see her in a different life. Yeah, she's amazing, man. Every time I talk about Beth, I say, she's what you want. If you're looking for an employee, if you're looking for a friend, I'm sure Adam knows she's a great wife, great mom. Anything you, any role that you would want to fill, she'd be like the best candidate.

She's just the best of everything. She's an artist. She can draw. She can paint. She's like super strong, beautiful. Like she's, yeah, she's amazing. It was a privilege to work with her. And she initiated the whole glamorella thing.

She actually submitted it and you told me after the fact. By the way, I kind of pitched this thing for us. And sometimes if it speaks in valleys, right, storyline-wise, you'll be featured and maybe a couple months go by where you're not featured. And I think it caught us both in like a little bit of a valley. So anything to be, you know, featured again. And yeah, it was really, it was memorable. and we were featured for quite some time. She said that that was the funniest moment

when you were trying to get another ring to the splits like Molina. You got her to break character. It wasn't just the splits. It was that you're down there and you're suffering, you're in so much pain and you start saying, my meatballs! Yeah, I know.

We used to do little things that, like, when she'd flex and I'd come around and bite her bicep, like an apple. And she was the perfect, like, you know, you need the comedy guy and that straight person and stuff. and she was excellent at the role. And then she's like an awesome wrestler too, you know. Like she was a high-level collegiate wrestler.

I think she used to wrestle like boys and stuff. And just watching her in the gym sometimes, you're like, she's doing more than, like, squatting like two plates for like 20 or something. Like really legitimately strong. Standing shoulder pressed like a plate. Like really impressive lifts, you know. And then going out there and having great technical matches. Yeah. What was the idea behind you trying to do Molina's entrance?

It was one of those things. I was a bad guy. And when you're the bad guy, the joke's on you. So me trying to do it and it backfiring, that was the egg, the egg was on me, you know. I can't remember. Back then it was a lot of Brian Goertz back then. When Santino was a bad guy, it was a lot of Brian Goertz were kind of married there for a while. And he's brilliant. He was one of the writers that really could visualize how I would deliver something and write for it. He wouldn't write. Some writers, they'll try and write like,

I'm going to go in the fight that you were. They try and write as Santino, but he wouldn't. He'd write it normal and let me bring it to life. But he had a really good, I guess, understanding of how I would bring it to life. So a lot of the golden stuff from Santino when he was a bad guy was all Brian Gawords.

When you got one leg on the apron, I'm like, well, he might be able to do it. But it was the buildup, right? You really took your time with that. Get the one leg out. Okay, hold on, hold on. Address the jeans. Yeah, maybe my pants are too tight. That was, it was brilliant.

It's funny. I used to be able to do the splits, actually, a long time ago in the 90s. Oh. It was another time. Yeah, another time. How did you come up with the Santino Walk? It was something from judo. We had a training camp one time.

And I think at a training camp, we were doing it as a part of a fun warm-up to try and do the speedwalk and race without running. And I was good at it. And so there's actually a story where I, in 1995, the summer my daughter was born. I worked at a warehouse. And there was four like warehouses or factories that had this like, family day and there'd all these, you know, hot dogs and you can throw a baseball and dunk your manager or whatever. And then the culmination was this big race, Olympic race walk event.

And I think I was 20 at the time. And I'm like, someone said, yeah, there's a big race walk event. I go, I'm going to win that for sure. Because I was, you know, I just, I was a peak of my athletic career. I was a young 180 pound athlete that was like, you know, twisted steel and I just won national championships and all the stuff. I think I just went, they go to the worlds yet?

Anyway, around that time, I was in really good shape. And they go, no, no, you're not going to win. There's this guy from Argentina. He wins every year. He's a former pro soccer player. And I'm like, what? And I see the guy, go, oh, damn, he looks like hit big legs, and he took it serious. So there was two heats. I won my heat,

and then he won his heat. and then it was the finals. It was me and him. And gathered around. But it was a square, like baseball, like running the bases, so to speak. And I played baseball. So he was really tight to the line, and I was out a little bit. I knew I had to round the corner.

Yeah. And everyone's like, move in, move in. Like, stay close. I trust me, I got it. So anyway, he took the lead, but he took the corner wide because he was so tight. And I came on the inside, and I had the lead. And then I just had to like, as I see him, like, in my idea, I wish I had mirrors. I kind of move over and like, not let him pass.

And then anyway, I won. And I was a bad, bad sport. You know, I was doing flips and cartwheels and bad, like I won the world championships. And so I was telling someone that I won this race before. And they thought it was hilarious. I should incorporate it into the entrance. And it was one of those things where I kind of jinxed myself. because Vince thought it was very funny.

He wanted me to do two laps of the ring at my entrance. The ring is huge. And, like, the second lap was always so awkward, you know, because they saw it. And I try and get away with one lap sometimes. Because it also ate up a lot of time. I wanted to have a match as well. But then I even tried to stop. He's like, no, no, no.

Do the race walk. And every time there's an Olympics, there's a clip of a race. walk. People like, oh, Santino inspired a generation. Yeah, I wonder how fast I really am against those guys. You're known for it. Like, I saw you in the gym and I said, oh, man, it'd be so funny if you were doing that walk on a treadmill. And you're like, no problem. So you, like, cranked up the speed a little bit

and you did it. And I walked up to you filming it. That got millions of views. Like, oh, I caught Santino training. Yeah. And you're doing the walk. It's a tough event too. It's commanding on the hips. For those that do it, I think they end up having like hip problems. Yeah, I guess the hips are really swaying, right?

They really swaying. But it's hilarious to, just watching race walking in general is hilarious. Watching you do it and then incorporating the trombone celebration into it, it's so smart. So where'd that come from? The trombone? Yeah. Oh, the trombone is the only move I've ever stolen in wrestling. and I stole it from ODB.

And she used to do it at OVW. And hers is a little different. And then I was watching a college game one time, but the guy runs down the field, like leaning back, doing the thing. And so I kind of combined it. And I remember she messaged me once. I got a nice trombone.

And I was like, ah, I've been meaning to talk to you about that. And honestly, the only thing I've ever stolen, so I'll give her all the credit. I got that from ODB. When you almost won the Royal Rumble with a, Alberto del Rio, you're doing it, right? And the crowd's so behind you. And like, that was probably the greatest use of that celebration. Yeah, it's funny because I don't, you know, I haven't done it for quite some time. But if I do it, let's say, an independent event and we win at the end,

we kind of stop every, you know, and I get all the, I get everyone in the ring to do it. The referee does it. And, you know, everyone has a good time over it. Yeah, it's so good. You've had so many of those great moments, like so many of those great comedy moments. Like, when we saw you versus Mick Foley when it was the cobra versus Mr. Soco. It was like that's the dream match of the two sock puppets. Yeah, yeah. It was funny because I kind of pitched the whole thing to him and he was so giddy during my pitch. Like he was loving it. And anyway, he was, I wanted to do the whole back into each other, like, you know, a couple, like, gunfighters in the Wild West

and then kind of turn and then see each other and kind of get ready. And we didn't time it out, but it took us the exact same amount of time, put our respective sleeves on or socks, and then we kind of did that. It was perfect timing. And then we circled and everyone, there was other guys in the ring,

but everyone just kind of got small. You can see Big Show just watching and enjoying it. And yeah, then we did the battle. We were supposed to do a little more. You know, like in movies, like wizards, they'll have, like, rays kind of hitting each other. They'll go back. Yeah.

We're supposed to kind of do that across the rain. But Cody jumped in, I remember a little early, and I was like, God, we had more plan, man. And, but anyway, it was still memorable. Because people understood immediately what was happening, right? Oh, damn, it's sock versus sock. And he's the right guy. It was actually probably one of my most fun, fun things.

It's fun because you're, you're tipping the cap to the audience and going, watch this guys. Like, we know. Yeah, and the fact that I was given the kind of the creative freedom to kind of orchestrate that was a compliment as well. My favorite is the snake charmer. Oh, my God. It's so funny. And it pops up a lot in those Facebook reels or Instagram reels of like, if wrestling's fake,

explain this. So I talked to a person, it was a foreign student from India. And he's like, that segment, like every single person in India knows this clip. Because, I mean, you're two famous Indian athletes, right? Jinda Mahal and the Great Khali. So they're just by their fame alone, everyone's going to have a look at it. And not that it's cultural representation by any means. But yeah, it was funny. There's one part I'm actually proud of when I'm holding my own hand back from getting me. Like the acting, I thought the acting was good. Like, it was serious, you know?

Yeah, that's one of those things. So sometimes I'll go to a convention or something, and I'll meet somebody, a father, and he goes, oh, my son loves you. I'm like, it sounds like seven. Like, how, how? And he goes, oh, no, YouTube, TikTok, all your stuff's on there, and they love you. And it's just strange because, you know, my neck surgery was 11 years ago. And then for the last several years anyway, I was just running Battle Arts Academy and I was just, you know, we had our family business and that's where I've been, you know, up until TNA.

I was just been a homebody guy. So there wasn't a lot of new material, but I guess it's now to the point where it's vintage. I had that realization recently. I'm not popular current. I'm popular vintage. And I'm okay with vintage. I guess I'm a little vintage these days. I'm in my 50s, you know.

I think the best part of that segment is actually when you're laying down in the middle of the ring and then at nowhere, the cobra starts going up and then you start following your arm up. Like it's leading me. That was brilliant.

Remember the old cartoons or like someone would smell cheese or something? They'd be floating kind of. That was kind of that, you know, the what's it called? Inspiration for that. What was your reaction when you were this idea? At first I was a little, I just, I didn't want to, I didn't want to be offensive,

you know what I mean, to culturally offensive. But it's one of those things, when I speak to people from Indian culture, they're not offended at all. So I was really happy with that, because, you know, there was one time, too, I was, I think it was gender, where I was arguing with him and I was pretending to speak Indian, but I was just whatever, kind of how it would sound to me. You see that sometimes online how English sounds to foreign. And it actually kind of sounds like English, but they're not really saying anything. Yeah.

And I just, you know, I just didn't want to be offensive to anybody. But it wasn't. So I talked to people that they thought it was cool. So that helped me a lot, kind of, you know, be cool with it myself. This episode is brought to you by Viori. Do you remember in the interview with Jady McDonough, how we couldn't shut up about how comfortable our sweatpants were? I got so many messages and so many emails from people being like,

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Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting a World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Henko. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You're always on the list for the best Stone Cold Stunner sells. Oh, yeah.

And there's so many different ways to sell the Stunner. How'd you come up with a salute? So, okay, interesting. When I was Boris, first I was Boris Kolov, because my first coach was Don Kolov. and Rip Rogers called me Boris. He gave me the nickname Boris. He said it looked like Boris Zucoff. So everyone's called me Boris. And I'm like, what the hell am I going to do this?

Because that was my nickname. And everyone called me Boris, like, in a matter of weeks. So I'm like, what am I going to do with this nickname? And I thought, well, you know what? I had this. I remember sitting up in bed, like going, I got it. I'm going to be this Russian special forces, military trained athlete that will allow me to do. Because I just came from battle arts in Japan.

where I was doing like work shoot stuff. So it'll allow me to explain why I'm doing that. I'll talk to my coach. I asked for his blessing to use the Koloff name. So I became Boris Kolov. So because I was this military trained guy, I would do this thing in the match like during the heat. But let's say a body slam a guy.

I would do a salute into the headbutt. Like just a quick little headbut. I still do it in my comeback now. I think I do this actually the salute. Yeah. And then I would do like the salute off the diving headbutt off the top rope. And I'd hold the pose and the salute the whole way. And I remember Al Snow was like, you know, one day if you get called up, you can't be doing that stuff.

I go, what do you mean? I can do that. I can find a way to get the salute in there. So I think that was the first time. I basically, it was like a shout out to everybody at OVW. Like, oh, he did the salute. He did the salute. And that was, I got it in a few more times, a few more salutes besides my actual, you know, the comeback.

But originally that's what it was. It was a tribute to the old character, Boris, and everyone from OVW and kind of Al Snow as well saying, see, got it in. Because you only have like half a second to react. Yeah. Whatever you're going to do, you've got just that quick moment. I guess if I, sometimes I try and think of my stuff if I was just a viewer, like what I like Santito, what I think that's funny. But when I watched that, that's pretty funny. It was so good.

How could you not love Santino? Like, seriously? Like, and there will be so many comments on this video that will be like, how is he not in the Hall of Fame yet? And that, that's truly how people feel because you made them feel that way. Well, it depends what you go to wrestling for. If you want macho, tough guys, and some people just don't like comedy, and they want to see slobber knockers each and every match. And it's pretty polarized.

I think the vast majority of people appreciate the comedy. But there are people that they have no place for comedy. But look, there's nobody sitting there in the arena rolling their eyes. Everybody is having an absolute blast when you're doing your thing or when our truth is doing his thing or whoever it is that's doing something comedic. Maybe online when people have a nameless, faceless profile. But in the arena, everybody's loving it. Yeah.

And when my music would hit, you could feel the mood change. Like, oh, okay, we're going to have some comedy. We're going to be laughing. We're going to be entertained. And just the initial, the old WWB music was more impactful. with regards to that immediate recognition. Yeah, and people knew they were going to be in for something entertaining. But man, doesn't that put the pressure on you?

Like now the pressure is on you to like bring the ha-haz today. Yeah, but Santino is like a security blanket. You know, when I'm in character, it's like he can't do anything wrong. Even when I Anderson used to say, he goes, it's brilliant. You would mess up on purpose so that if you mess up, people don't even know you messed up. because it's what you do. He goes, it's like foolproof. You can't mess up.

So it was that security aspect to it where anything happens. And then I'd start exploiting that where I'd go on the top rope and I kind of slip and pretend I'm embarrassed and people thought like they just saw me do something like by accident, you know?

And then I would incorporate it into the match or I would do like a dip up and I'd fail at it. And people would think like, well, this guy's just messed up a nip up, you know? and I'd be mortified. But later in the match, I would do it successfully

and tie it into something else. And, yeah, it became fun. And it took, when I debuted on Bra, I was green, man. So the reason I stood out so much is because I just came from battle arts. And I was doing this worksheet style. So I was different. I was different from everybody in OVW.

No one was doing it. And training with Rip Rogers, I learned how to combine that worksheet style with traditional North American storytelling. But my move set was totally different for anybody else. And that made me, so I advanced quickly. Also with my judo background, I think I started training at 28, but I was, you know, just kind of learning.

I had my first match at 29. I had like six indie matches and I'm like, man, can't get out of here. Like, no one's seeing me. This is pre-Internet. Like, these matches are almost like they're not even happening. No one's ever going to see these. So I went to Japan, and I was there for a better part of a whole year in 2004,

trying to create an opportunity, find an opportunity, and I ended up having some matches. And near the end of my stay, the matches were coming more frequently, and I wanted to make a name for myself there. I wanted to get so popular over there that they recruited me back home. And then there was a miscommunication where I overstayed one of my tourist visas. and I was banned. So that's the reason I went to OVW

because I came home and like, what am I going to do now? I had to reformulate a game plan and figure it out, you know? So I went down to OVW. So because I was fresh off living in Japan, I was different. But then I got there in 2005.

I got signed in 2006. I got there May, 2005, got signed in like July or August, 06. and then I debuted and I had to go back home for like two or three months for my visa. And then I came back basically December, January, February, March, and April. So I was in the OVW developmental system as a contracted talent for like five months. And then this opportunity came where they asked me if I could speak Italian. And I, you know, bluffed my way in, basically.

Could you speak any Italian? I said enough to convince them the people on the phone that I can speak Italian. Italian. So when I used to work downtown Toronto, I never told you the story before. I think you'd like do a lingo or something. Yeah, I said, let's do a tape. It's just a tape. And, um, just for fun? Like you were actually trying to learn Italian? Well, because my grandmother's English wasn't very good. And I'm like, man, this, like, couldn't really have in-depth conversations. I said, I need to learn more Italian. So I'd just be in traffic and I'd be listening to this tape, like it flip over, other side, flip over. And I just listened to tourists Italian.

and basically when they called and said, can you speak Italian? I just recited a couple lines from that tape. What'd you say? I said, I said, for a mezzo kilo di forbadio, which means,

I would like a half kilo of cheese. And a half kilo of cheese got me hired. And then I said something about, I'd like a glass of red wine or something. Or does the room have a bathroom or something like, the tourist stuff, right? And then they, yeah, yeah, so they said, okay, yeah, sounds good.

you're going to fly out tomorrow to Milan and you might debut. Your fingers crossed, you might debut. So then I went and got all these DVDs and I was like trying to study as much Italian as good. Yeah, but since then I got my dual citizenship and I got a passport and I really embraced the culture. And then since then I knew I had to go back and speak Italian. So then I got Rosetta Stone and I was able to go home and go home, go back to Italy. and do a promo in Italian. Next time I came back, I was kind of,

my cousin helped me with the grammar on the first one. Kind of had to memorize it a bit. The next time was like a little more, it was more me. And it got to the point where I even had a tutor for a while. And I got to the point where I was able to do a live interview on TV and a live interview on the radio in Italian. That was like the peak of my Italians.

Wow. Yeah, it was really, it was that I was nervous for. I know I can go in the ring and do my thing. I know, I know, but it's like if you've ever tried stand-up comedy, like considering how funny Santino was, stand-up comedy is terrifying, you know? What if they don't laugh? You know, what do you do?

But just before the TV interview, they were kind of like, look, you know, you're Canadian. So if you get stuck, just say the word in English. Everyone kind of speaks English anyway, and it helped me relax a little bit. And I went there and, yeah, that was like the peak of my Italian. I haven't been using it as much since. But every time I go back to Italy, by the end of the week, I'm like, it's coming back to me.

You don't use it. You lose it, right? Right, totally. Yeah. How have you been able to keep your name? How were you Santino in TNA? Yeah. So that was actually almost bigger news than me appearing on TNA.

It was the fact that I was Santino Morella. So in 2021, I imagine, you know, the COVID confusion or whatever. There was people getting fired and hired. and seemed like it was Team Hunter and Team Vince and they were changing regimes or whatever. Somebody didn't renew the trademark. So Scott DeMore as a habit, because if he's getting a former WW guys,

he kind of checks the trademarks, see if they're available. Because you have to get creative and come up with a name, right? If it's not fandango, it's dango, or something that's legally not going to be too close to the intellectual property. And he checked. And all of a sudden he goes, damn, Santillo Morela,

available. So he bought it. And, you know, it's not as simple as you can just buy it that's yours. Like there's a case that they created the character. They developed the character. It's still on their library. I mean, there's still tons of Santino stuff in the library. But when it's library use, I think it's not considered like current use because it's from a library. So they sent an email or a phone call to Scott. And they say, yeah, you're using our intellectual property and Scott's like actually I own the trademark so they're like let me get back to you um and it's kind of sitting there for a while and then they filed an extension to the time they can appeal it and then when Scott was no longer with TNA Ariel in hopes of you know

having a good relationship with WW he kind of just gave it back to them so they own it but I'm not sure if a part of the deal was we'll give it back to you but can we Can we use it? We've been using it. The WWE owns the trademark now. Yes. But they are allowing you to use it and allowing TNA to use it. Yeah.

No one said anything otherwise. And especially now with the relationship between NXT and TNA, I guess it's fine to use it. It's people don't know you as anything else. You could come out as Anthony, but they'd still be calling you Santino. Yeah, I was trying to think of ways to, like, could it be Saint Tino or something? There's a lot of those TNA names. Yeah, yeah. A lot of those.

Just Tino? I don't know. Just Tino. Tino. Some people call me Tino anyway. But yeah, we were able to use it. And it was good for the recognition of it. Sure.

And I've been there now two years and four months at TNA. And I tell you, within about six months, completely revitalized my love for creating television. And now from a producer side of things as well, I love, I was doing, I do matches. And recently I started producing pre-tapes, which I love doing that. Sitting in the production meeting, something I didn't do in WWE, really understanding how television's put together. So it's been a, it's been really fun, but it's also been a huge learning experience for me as well. I've always loved TNA, and it's just amazing seeing what TNA has been doing since the rebrand happened, since Hard to Kill last year.

When it went back to TNA, it's been amazing. Right, that's right. It was impact when I first started. Yeah. And the growth, so when I was not saying. saying it's anything to do with me. But, yeah, I was, first of all, I was kind of done, just being on the road for so long. I remember putting my luggage away, like, like, ceremoniously, like, putting it in the closet.

Like, I don't need that. I'm staying home now. And then when COVID comes and you can't go anywhere, it kind of changed my perspective with regards to being on the road. And all of a sudden, they kind of want to go on the road a little bit. It kind of turns it into like a privilege, right? Like, oh, I get to go on the road. Right.

I don't have to. And the frequency of the TNA shows is like perfect. Like, it's not every week. I can, I mean, I'm still busy every week, but I mean, it's different stuff. It's coming here. It's going places. It's going to Europe. I can pick destinations that I like in between TNA dates.

And the balance is, man, I feel like for the first time in my life and with regards, to my career and my family life, I've achieved this balance where it's like, I don't want to move anything. Everything is just perfect right now. Home life is good. Business life is good. Life on the road is good. Everything's just perfectly balanced. My health is good. I feel great. I just don't want to mess with it too much, right? Just steady as she goes. I want anything to change. Everything's awesome. And yeah, and I enjoy it. And I view it as a privilege. Yeah. The cobra is one of the most protected finishers of all time. You laugh, but it's true. Was that an intentional decision? No, I think it's where it kind of was originally in the roster. It wasn't like super, you know, main event, main event guys. The only person ever kicked out of it once with the sleeve was Daniel Bryan and one person kicked out of it without the sleeve and that was Seamus and that was it. So when you factor in all the live events, yeah.

It's like 99.9%. If I've done 1,000 Cobra's, like two guys kicked out. I've probably done 2,000 Cobra's maybe and two guys kicked out. And when you think about it, like how many people have kicked out of the tombstone or the stunner or the rock bottom or the pedigree or whatever it happens to be, the cobra is like right up there near the top of the list. Statistically, yeah, it's up there. And the beauty, I was talking to someone last week.

I can do it forever. You know, I'm 80 years old. I can show up somewhere and poke someone with it. and I can do it to any size person, as long as I can reach. I don't know about almost. Sure. Jump.

I get a milk crate or something. Jump. But yeah, I can do it to anybody, and I can do it for quite some time, and it's safe. What's the story behind loading up the cobra? Oh, man. So when I was in Japan,

there was a friend of the, I think he may have been a partner in the original battle arts. We were having some drinks after a show in the bar, and he just showed me this thing where he just transformed his arm into like this puppet. And he'd do the whole thing. And he'd turn it and turn it and do this.

He had a thing here. His is a little different. He had this little joystick thing. And I didn't even understand like, you know, because he didn't speak English. I'm like, what is that? He goes, ah, it's just a funny thing he does. And he always asked me like, you try it. You know, and I try it.

No, no, nah, no. He'd do it again and they try it. And then I didn't see him for like a few months and we got together after another show. And he's like, do you remember the thing? and I you know he showed me again and and that was it and that was it for like five years and then I think I was in Atlanta Georgia in a live event and I can't remember if it was Chavo or Carlito but I was you know going to do a comeback and in the middle of my comeback it was like you know wah wah cobra hit it he turns away into a schoolboy and and that's what it was for

a few months I do it on live events only and then I think I think William Regal one time was the first one to kind of bump off it. And that was like, and stayed down for the cover. So I'm like, okay, I guess it's like a finisher now because people are laying down for it. And then one day I go, I was against Zach Ryder. And it was, we're on like superstars. And our agent was Ricky Steenboat. And he's like, yeah, you're going to go over with the cobra tonight.

And then the cobra. And he goes, yeah, Vince wants to see the cobra. And I'm like, I just even know about the cobra. And he goes, he reads the reports for like, from him. from the live events, the producers have to write reports. And they go, okay. So anyway, I did it. And I swear, it took, I feel like three weeks.

And Al Snow even said that before, like the memory. You can program an audience in like three weeks. And after like three weeks, I'd stop and look around and they would jump up. I'm like, for the cobra? I go, okay. And yeah, and they loved it for some reason. It was almost like beyond my comprehend. It's funny, but it's,

it's not that funny, but they loved it. And then that's it. The cobra was here for quite some time. And then we introduced the merchandise. How long did that take? I think I did the cobra without the sleeve for like a year or two. Yeah.

And then we, I remember calculating, incorrectly calculating all the money I was going to get from all these residuals. And I was like, $1,000 a day. And then, yeah, it was $1,000 a day. How much do you get on one sleeve? Oh, man. I think it was like four cents or something.

Four cents. Because we'd sell like, they bring 400 to a venue. They'd sell out. Sure. So I'm thinking it was like, I thought it was like $2.50 or something. So I'm like, it's $1,000 a day. Right, sure. 25%.

And it was like 4% or something. So it's still a couple hundred bucks, but it was, didn't add up to what I thought was going to be. But what a great piece of merch. So now, I get them made myself. And they're inexpensive. They're small. Like, at Mania, I had a bag of, I don't know, like 100 Cobras.

And, you know, everyone, okay, some people sell T-shirts and other merchandise, and they got to pack, like, large bags. Yeah. I can, like, a little backpack put, like, 100 Cobras in there. They also got to bring all the sizes, small, medium, large, X, L, 2X. You got one size fits all. One size fits all. and it's inexpensive to make and relatively.

And it has to be shipped from overseas and all that stuff. But I can definitely travel with them pretty easily. Well, always so good to catch up with you. Thank you again for coming back on. I feel like we could talk for hours. Just two Canadians hanging out like this. Yeah, I can definitely keep going. I can talk for, when I used to talk at schools,

I tell the principal, like, give me the sign when it's time to stop because, you know, I can talk all day. Actually, there is one more I want to ask you about. You did a dance off segment. And it would have been so easy for you to just go out there and like look like an idiot. It looked like you actually choreographed. Were you thinking all week of what you were going to do in that moment? No, I wasn't.

That was just standard silliness that we would do back in like high school. That's the one that Kozlov. He won that thing. So he has this patented dance. so it's funny because I was a big baby face at the time and he was like a bad guy at the time but he won based on fan reaction

he won the dance off like he was no like 100% of the vote he won the dance off based on fan reaction and then we were we ended up doing it on some live events and I took it serious like no way I'm going to let that guy win again man so I was like trying to

one up him a little bit but Yeah, that's his dance, man. He was a pretty athletic guy for, he did some of the Russian stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it was good. But you were doing stuff that was like, you would clearly put thought into this.

I, did I? I think I was just rewinging it, actually. Then it was very well done. You ever think about changing your username? You're the Milan miracle. And I think only like real hardcore fans know what that is referencing. I have, but I remember years ago, I thought if you change your username, like, it was like,

you have to, you lose status or follow. I don't know if that's true at all, but. I think when you have the partnership with WWE, I'm sure they can just click a few buttons and you're good. I'm sure at Santina Morel is available. I don't know if it's available. I will plant that seat for it. Yeah, yeah.

I would consider it. I mean, yeah, because my career is not just about my debut, right? It's so much more than the debut. And you're so far removed from being the Milan miracle. Right. You're not even the same character. Yeah, I think about it from time to time. I just figured out through it.

I'm just so interested by branding and usernames and stuff like that. And I'm sure it's available. On Instagram, I'm a lot more active because I like the idea of just putting pictures and videos. It's pretty well balanced between TNA, battle arts, kids. you know, it's, yeah, maybe, maybe I could do it. And plus, I think, but if someone wants to search, I think it comes up pretty quick, right? I'm sure it does. But again, great to see you. I'll ask you the question. I ask everybody. I asked you this last time. Maybe your answers have changed. Maybe they haven't. But what are three things that you're grateful for right now? Oh, man, I am grateful for

my life. I mean, I say thank you out loud every day when I look around. I'm like, thank you, thank you. It's just, it's incredible. My wife and I look at each other and we look at our kids and we look at each other like, what the hell is happening? This is amazing. So family, health, and where we live. Like, I didn't realize that the physical location of where you actually live could have such a dramatic impact on your day-to-day happiness.

We live in this is an incredible place close to Georgian Bay. People, some Canadians might know where Sega Beach or Midlands. we're kind of in the middle there. And we're close to like a world-class, incredible beach. But we also back on to like 500 acres of like environmentally protected forest. We have deer and foxes

and all these animals and so many birds and rabbits and chipunks and squirrels at any second you look in the backyard looks like a Disney cartoon. And I'm just grateful for the life that provides. The people on my street are amazing. All that sounds like a far cry from Mississauga. It's very far. Yeah, I have to go, I coach once a week still.

How long is your drive to Mississauga? It's hour and a half. Toronto traffic is quite bad. Yeah, it's, I, classes are a little bit later now. They're at 8.30, so I can kind of avoid the majority of traffic. Yeah. And I can get students from a little farther away because the traffic is so bad. The classes were at, at, I stopped coaching for a while, and the classes were changed to, like, earlier.

but if I live in like Whitby. Yeah, I'm from Pickering. Yeah, I'm not driving to Mississauga. Pickering to Mississauga during rush hour could take close to two hours. Yeah, totally. But now if class is at 8.30, you can leave at 7.30 or quarter to seven, you can get there in 45 minutes as opposed to an hour and a half. Yeah. So anyway, yeah.

The traffic's not that bad for me. My particular route is not that bad. and it's a nice drive. I have, like, divided into three. Like, when I pass Wonderland, that's kind of like 30 minutes. Yeah. Berries in, like, another 30 minutes.

Yeah. And 30 minutes from home. Straight up and down the 400. The 400. Yeah. Yeah, the mighty 400. It's my cottage country drive. Either the 400 or the,

up towards Lindsay. Peterborough Lindsay area? 115, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's great. The Carthas. Yeah, Carthas are awesome. Look at us.

Just two Ontario kids. Carth dairy, man. Moostracks. That's a. I love that flavor of ice cream. My wife texted me, are we waiting for you to get home on Sunday before we get ice cream? I'm like, yes, please. That's our cheat day, you know.

Moose tracks. Great to see you, man. Shout out to Coarthodere. Send us some. Sponsorships, yeah, yeah. No, thank you, man. I always look forward to talking with you. And I was talking to somebody about you and your interviews, and it's not the usual wrestling stuff.

You ask things like, like, what are you grateful for? And we usually last time we were talking about kids. and I know you got the two kids and stuff. Yeah, it's the best. You're an incredible phase in your life. I didn't think that my 50s were going to be this amazing. They're better than my 40s. Yeah.

I mean, the 30s, I was on the road at WWs. That's kind of hard to beat. Yeah. But my health has been restored from, you know, being diligent with my physiotherapy. I started doing jiu-jitsu a year and a half ago, which is like completely restoring my, athleticism, I'm injury-free. It's crazy. And I've spent a lot of the last couple years really

focusing on what makes my back act up. So, you know, I have my so-ass muscles have to be relaxed. I have to be hydrated. I have to strengthen my glutes and my hip flexors. And it's, I have to hang upside down once in a while. So I have to be super diligent with doing all those things. And if I do them, I'm totally fine. And if I slack on one of them, I'll have a little discomfort. I turned 40, 10 days before my daughter was born, so 10 days before I became a dad. Yeah. And what a great way to welcome my 40s in. Right. Right. Like this whole new chapter, this whole new season of our life, me and my wife with now we have two kids. It's been the best. It's funny when you can, well, it's interesting when you can easily identify chapters. Yeah.

And for me, the W.W.W was a 10-year chapter. And before that, I had a judo chapter. and then had a, you know, working chapter. And then since WW had the battle arts chapter. Now I'm on a T&A chapter. And it's also an overlapping, moving up north chapter. Yeah. And, yeah, these chapters are incredible. Now my 50s now is, this is new jiu-jitsu chapter.

I always feel a little bit guilty because I'm a judo guy. You know, I'm a judo guy. But I can't do judo because judo is super hard on the body. You're getting slammed. Like, you know, it's a lot of torque and a lot of, it's a little more violent in terms of the throwing. But I can do jiu-jitsu. Although I'm using my judo in jiu-jitsu,

so it's like, I'm not wasting it. Some of it's transferable. We just have to learn the new rule set. But I guess I just need to be grappling. You know, it keeps you young. Recently I went to the Gracie University, and I walked into a room where I'm like, it's guys like me, man.

Guys in their 30s, 40s, 50s, Some guys in their 60s, all different belts. It was 11 a.m. class. I'm like, yes, these are my people, man. We get it, you know? And those that know it, they get it, right? This is, it's essential for longevity and for youth. You have to keep moving.

And you have to keep moving in a challenging way. It can't be just something so easy that you're not being challenged. It's the challenge and the resistance and the solace and the solace. and solving this constantly moving puzzle that's going to keep you sharp. Yeah. And I think everyone should do it. I mean, go take a beginner's class,

learn a couple things, and just stick with it. You don't have to be a world champion. Just go to twice a week to class. It has a trickle-down effect in your life because you feel good about yourself. You feel confident. You're proud of yourself.

And when you are those things, it has a trickle-down effect to every other aspect of your life. You're a better dad, you're a better husband, you're a better business man, you're just better, you're happier. Yeah. And growth happens from that hard stuff.

Right. Like when you're intentionally putting yourself into those things that you don't know how to figure out, you'll find a way through it. That's where the growth happens. It doesn't happen in like relying on the things you know you're good at or the things that you know you can be perfect at. And sometimes it's hard to measure growth. But if there's someone that I can't beat,

I train hard and now I can beat. That's a measurement. Yeah. You know, I've solved that particular problem. Yeah. Sometimes even for flexibility, I have a really good coach and he's very big on mobility and he's a kinesiology guy. You know, certain things, I can't stretch a certain way or I'm tight.

And all of a sudden, you know, a few months later, I go, ah, I can do this. You know, I'm opening up. I'm getting more mobility in my joints and that is crucial. The thing for Jiu-Jitsu right now is it's not, I don't want to, it's 20 years. I want to be doing cartwheels at 70 years old.

That's 19 summers away. It's like, we know how fast it's gonna go. Like the kids, like my three-year-old is going to school in September. And I'm like terrified. I'm like, because all of a sudden it just gets faster and faster and faster. My son's turning seven.

I'm like, what the hell? He was born like yesterday. And I know I can't slow down. time, but I can maximize what I do with my time. Yeah. And that's my nickname is AC to the max. Even my email. Because I believe in maximizing every single second that you have on this planet,

you know? Have you seen Tom Cruise recently? He's 62 turned 63 in July. Wow. Looks amazing. Right. And I think about that with a lot of people. Like Clint Eastwood's still making movies in his 90s.

And he's in his 90s and 93 or 94. and DDP tells a great story about Clint Eastwood where it's like when the old man knocks, I don't let him in. There's a song about that. Don't let the old man in. It's Toby Keith, right?

Toby Keith is inspired by Clint Eastwood. Like, it was Clint Eastwood was celebrating whatever it was, 89th birthday. What are you going to do? He's like, filming my movie tomorrow. Day one. What do you mean?

How are you able to do this at 80? If he ever stops, he will die. And that's it. And with TNA too, you know, hanging around Leon Slater, who's like 20 and these other young talent is, you know, he's just the youngest guy right now. But I hang out with guys that are in their 20s and their 30s. And I think that, you know, helps you stay young as well, young and hard anyway.

What a great way to end this. Man, we had everything in this interview. We had some laughs. We had some sentimental moments. We learned. We had talking about growth mindset. I love it. I didn't cry this time.

I usually know for that, especially when I talk about my daughter, I start panicking. I'm like, oh, God, we're going to fight the tears. Family is obviously a very important thing to me, and it's an emotional thing. Yeah, so I got through it. Next time. Yeah, next time. All right, there we go. Thank you for listening to this episode, and a huge thank you to Santino for joining us.

I feel like I need to go just watch a whole bunch of Santino Morella clips now. And it's funny. We've recorded this at ACW in Oshcom. Wisconsin, Hornswoggle's company that he has there. Yes, the same place, the same indie show where I did the rock bottom. And it's funny, I was walking around. They had a convention before the show. And people don't just say, hey, Santino Morella, everybody.

And I mean, everybody said, hey, a Santino Marella. It was amazing to see. So give Ascentino Marella a follow on Instagram or X and take a screenshot of this and tag. us. He's at the Milan Miracle on Instagram. He's at Milan Miracle on X. I'm at Chris Van Vleet, and we'll wrap this up with a great quote from the great Mark Twain. Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection. Be great and be grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one. For some more insight, we've got Casey Katanzaro joining us on Thursday. You might remember her.

from her time in WWE as Katana Chance. We've got a lot to cover with her. I'll see you right back here on Thursday for that one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley?

How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Allie. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this.

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