Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Shawn Spears On Leaving AEW, WWE Return, Cody Rhodes Friendship, Giving Me 20 Chops

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Shawn Spears (@ShawnSpears) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, Florida to talk about his return to WWE and why he didn't come back as Tye Dillinger, why he left AEW, why he didn't return at the 2024 Royal Rumble, being previously known as Stan and being superkicked by Shawn Michaels at Cyber Sunday 2006, the accidental chair shot on Cody Rhodes that led to his nickname of "The Chairman", how being a dad has changed things, his wife Cassie Lee and if she intends to come back to wrestling and more. Quote I'm thinking about: “When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it.” ―Henry Ford Complete this survey for your chance to win $500: https://bluewirepods.com/survey Sponsors: VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv MANSCAPED: Get 20% off plus free shipping when you use the code CHRISVAN at http://manscaped.com HELLO FRESH: Get free breakfast for life at http://hellofresh.com/freeinsight ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at http://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv MAREK HEALTH: Get a 10% discount on Marek Health's Optimization Package with code CVV: https://marekhealth.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/ PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Fanfleet, glad to have you with us on this one. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit a knife-edge chop on that follow button on Spotify or Apple Podcasts if you haven't done so already. Hit it. Hit it like you're hitting one of the 20 chops that Sean Spears and Tyler Breeze hit me with. I get asked all the time, what's the best way to start? support the show, you know, since we don't have Patreon or anything like that, all of the content

is free. That is how I intend for it to be. But honestly, just hitting follow on the podcast or hitting subscribe on YouTube, that goes such a long way. And of course, you know, listening to the show, that's super important, but I don't have to ask you to do that since you're, you know, you're already here. You're already doing that right now. My buddy, Sean Spears, is back on the show. And I wasn't intending for this to be Canadian week here on Insight. But Ethan Page on Tuesday, Sean Spears today, and here we are. A lot has changed since Spears was last on the show, which was April of last year. He decided to leave AEW in December after five years there.

Then he surprised everyone when he returned to WWE completely unannounced when he made that appearance in NXT in February. Here's the thing. He left WWE as Ty Dillinger. He was already Sean Spears on the Indies, but he left WWE as Ty Dillinger. He went back to being Sean Spears when he was in AEW and when he signed there.

And he's now Sean Spears for the very first time in WWA. Two very different characters, though. The Perfect Ten, Ty Dillinger and Sean Spiers. We talk about what went into that decision. Also, how NXT is moving to the CW beginning on October 1st, a lot more households that it's going to be available in there. Oh, and he also just recently welcomed another baby boy with his wife, Cassie Lee, who you know is Peyton Royce.

So they've got two sons now, Austin and Harley. So congrats to both of them on that. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening and tag us. He's at Sean Spears on Twitter. He's at the Sean Spears on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Let's do this thing.

I hope you enjoy this conversation with Sean Spears. As much as I did, please welcome. Sean Spears. How's dad life? Dude. Wild. Isn't it the best? It's, it's, you don't, there's nothing to, nothing prepares you.

I think we had this conversation a little bit before. Nothing prepares you. And then when there's another one. Yeah. It's what you're about to find out about. Yeah. You're in it right now. I'm in it right now.

And it's always the worry of how the first one, the older one's going to kind of adapt. Yeah. To a new one that's getting a little bit more attention. Yeah. Because it's obviously a necessity. and but when you see like the first kiss or the first hug right now austin he's very big about uh if harley my youngest loses his binkie he grabs it he puts it right back in his mouth but he like he doesn't understand uh force yet smashes the poor kid in the face every time i laugh

because it's it's funny but you're teaching him be a worker already it's the cutest thing he knows he knows suplex he knows spear and uh body slam so those those are those are of the three that he gets. Is it tough? Because I don't know if people realize you're here at the PC all week, like, you know, like a full-time job. Time-wise, and it's a lot of it is on me because I still have flatbacks with Breeze. So we still run that on a weekly basis.

The schedule can be difficult, but that's why, you know, Cass is a trooper. She holds down the four. We do have a nanny who's wonderful. And Austin is. head over heels in love with her and her him. We have a good team around us that helps maximize the time that we do get together and things like that. So it does get pretty hectic, but it's for the short term. I'd rather do this and grind it out now while they're young and while they don't understand,

when I start leaving and he recognizes when I leave and starts crying at the door, that's when I'm going to have to kind of start adjusting schedules and times a little bit. I fear that day. It'll happen. And you have a little lady. So it's going to be, I know for me it would hit. Like, my boy is my boy. But if I had a little lady running around, I know it would break and melt my heart at the same time.

So you're going to find out all about, let me know how it goes, man. Yeah, I'll text. You know, because I'm pretty sure we'll both be, they're roughly the same age. They are. Just a few months apart. I'll probably be crying at the same time you are. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, we've had like similar paths with fatherhood.

It's just amazing how much it changes you. It's amazing how much it changes. changes what's important to you and what your focus is. But do you also not find that it makes you so much more driven at what you're doing for work? It makes me more aware. So I think we were kind of talking about this. Like it makes me watch, you know, my mouth a little bit more. It makes me a little more cautious about what I'm watching on TV a little bit more. A lot of times being busy and things like that, you know, a lot of us that are on the move or a lot of us that have excess things going on, like other businesses or properties or other things like that,

I'm on my phone a lot. I do a lot of that through that. So I have to be a little more aware of that when he's in the room and he says, Dad, I can hear him. I'm not lost in something else or I'm not, like my attention has to be divided at the right times. So it's made me a lot more self-aware. I've definitely, you know, in an industry where you kind of have to put yourself first for an extended period of time in order to get to certain heights, I've been easily and very happily able to put myself, you know, second, third, fourth, if need be, without any second thought. So, yeah, it changes you in different ways. It doesn't change. I think, you know, I've known you for a long time. You're a good human being. It doesn't change your perspective on how you operate in life or

anything like that, it might make you more aware now because you have someone watching you at all times. Yes. And so much of what I do for work is on my phone. And it's like, no, no, that needs to, that needs to go away. When they say, dad, you go, yep, hey, buddy, you know, or what do you need? Or, you know, if you see them coming to the corner of your eye, it's, hey, honey, what do you need? The attention needs to be right there because at some point at a certain age, and you see the things online or you see the video in the clips where they're kind of warning you, hey, make time. At some point, the little one's going to realize, like, oh, now's not the time to bug that. And I don't ever want my kid feeling like I can't go to him right now.

I don't ever want that ever. So it's honest. It's on me to be aware. You shared a quote on Instagram last week that was just so powerful to me. And it was talking about time is the only currency where you don't know what the balance is. Spend it wisely. Yeah. And that hit me in my core.

Because so often we think, I'll just do that tomorrow. I'll get to that next week. I can do that at another time. You're right. You don't know how much you have left. And I wish I knew who, again, I steal a lot of the, I just same thing. I see them like everybody else,

but then they hit me in a certain way. And I just go, we've heard that for so long. You never know. You never know. Tomorrow doesn't guarantee anything. You know, make sure you tell your loved ones. You love them because it could be the lot. Like, we hear things like that in so many different ways,

but when they're said in a very specific. specific way that you're able to kind of resonate with. It hits so much more differently. And I saw that. I just went, man, you're right. You don't know the balance. Time is always the ultimate currency. And if you don't have, like, it's why people will say what's the most important thing. And a lot of people will say health. Well, yeah, because if you don't have health, then you can't make more money or you can't spend more time with your loved ones. You know, like if you have health, you can live longer time. Yeah.

It was the ultimate currency. But then that whole, you don't know the balance. You're like, oh, don't know when it's going to run out. Yeah. And that is just, it's, I smile about it, but it's also like, foof, it's a powerful and nerve-wracking kind of thing, perspective, right? Yeah. You left WWE as Ty Dillinger.

I did. You came back as Sean Spears. Uh-huh. What does that mean to you? Um, it was. It means a good deal to me, not to take anything away from the Ty Dillinger thing, only because the way I got the name Ty Dillinger was pretty special to me. So it holds a special place in my heart.

Dillinger, I don't know if I've ever explained this. Dillinger, I kind of came up with on my own based on John Dillinger, the famous bank robber from back in the day, just public enemy number one, loved by the public and that kind of stuff. So I always have a fascination with things like that. And then Dusty Rhodes was one who gave me the name Ty. So that name will always kind of carry a special weight to it. But being away and going back to a name that I picked from a baby book,

way back when I was first starting out and being able to kind of put some weight behind it a little bit in terms of what I was able to do with that over the course of X amount of years. When I came back to WWE, it was presented as an option, which I felt very grateful for. it wasn't it was a conversation it was like how would you like to proceed do you want to go back here or do you want to kind of hang on to this and I just said let's hang on to this let's see what we can do coming back a fresh start fresh slate let's let's see what we can do so it meant a lot that I had that had the option and and yeah

we're still building baby you're still building we'll see your return to WWE was a legitimate surprise and that doesn't happen that often in this day and age of wrestling first of all how did you keep it a secret You have the team around you. You know who the team is. And you keep your mouth shut, man. It is the only way to keep a secret nowadays. Keep your mouth shut.

Just don't tell anybody. I think maybe I knew Matt Bloom, Sean Michaels, and Triple H. That was it. I'm guessing. I knew Sean for sure, Bloom for sure. You left Cassie out of that. I didn't tell her for a little bit either. I kind of just, you know, I didn't, I really don't tell anybody until my best.

friend. I didn't tell my family. I didn't tell my, uh, no, I didn't tell my sisters. I didn't tell my dad and tell anybody. Because in an excitement stage or, you know, some people that want you to see you do really well, get really excited for you. With excitement comes loose lips sometimes. And the same thing with someone who kind of wants to see you fail. Yeah. It's very easier. It's much easier to have loose lips. So I went the safe route by keeping my mouth shut. They kept me in a room the majority of the day. And yeah, I didn't even tell Cody. I didn't tell it here. He texted me. He's like, you back. Because man, you work in silence. You know what I mean? What he doesn't know is that's one of the things I learned from him is just keep things to yourself until they're, you know, I'm the kind of guy.

And a lot of guys with my tenure will say, like, I don't believe anything until it's happening in the moment or after it's already happened in this industry. Did Cody tell you he was coming back? I knew. I knew a lot of stuff. We'd had our conversations and things like that. I didn't know anything officially. He keeps a lot of things to the chest as well. Like I said, I learned that kind of from him. But I knew there was a change in his life for the better. So when the lights went out, it could have been anybody. And then we see the silhouette of you with the chair. Everybody instantly knew it was you. And then we heard the 10 chance. I think it still work, you think it can still work till today?

It might still, oh, no, you just kind of get me to switch. Yeah. Which, I love it. I love it because it just tells me that at some point in my career, I did something that was able to allow people to connect with each other. That audience remembers you. And then that's a big thing. You know what I mean?

And that's the thing about wrestling fans, man. They're so loyal. You know that. They could hate me one week and love me the next week. And that just goes back and forth. But at the end of the day, they're just, we've had this conversation before. They're so loyal. They're the most loyal fan base on this planet, in my opinion.

And, you know, like, I think Brett Hart just came back last week in Calgary and stuff like that. But I think he said his famous line, the best there is. And the second he said, the best everybody is already echoing. Like they remember, like, which is, you know, if you're in this industry for an extended period of time, there's nothing more gratifying than remembering you. But I think there's this idea or this notion. that's floated out there online, that people only watch one show and that's it.

Clearly they were familiar with your work in AEW. Clearly when they saw you with the chair. Well, yeah. Clearly when they saw you with the chair. Oh, that's the chairman. That's Sean Spears. Oh, my gosh. But I remember him from NXT.

The 10 thing, you know, I know who this person is. So even though it had been five years, five years? Yeah. Yeah, I was there since the very beginning. Five years. Even though it had been five years since you'd been in WWE,

boom, instantly remembered you. Right, and that's just a testament to try and, you know, stay current. It's an evolution of character. It's always trying to stay in the game in an evolution of social media and professional wrestling as a whole. I did some independence and there's, you know, even the independents are really hot right now. So people are starting to build a name for themselves on the independence in Japan. So it's just a matter of paying attention to what's going on, trying to keep your thumb on the pulse of things as much as possible. possible. But, you know, the ultimate goal is to get the eyes and ears of a big company. So,

yeah, man, it's just just, I'm just glad there was an evolution and that people stuck along for the ride. What went into the decision to leave AEW? I think it just came down to a personal want in terms of wanting to contribute a little bit more. But, but, both in front of the camera and behind the camera. I had a wonderful time in AEW. I have and have had a great relationship with Tony Kahn. You're never going to hear me say anything bad about that guy. Same thing with a lot of the EVPs, talent, everything.

I had a wonderful time. I got to learn a lot about myself as a businessman and a lot more of what not to do. And a little bit more so of it's okay to kind of put your foot down, it's okay to kind of have faith in what you're worth and faith in your ability and things like that. So it was a really good learning process in terms of being an individual man, a different company. But man, my time there was special. Getting to work with all the top guys based on a lot of storylines that I was in with Max and FTR and things like that. So a lot of

things that I would have never gotten to do, I think, in my career. Yeah. I was very fortunate enough to do there. Hey, you wrestle CM Punk. If you blinked, you missed it. But luckily, we'd have a, we'd had a couple run-ins before. I think maybe an OVW. But that might have been it.

So if you blinked and you have to go back and look that up, it might take up 10 seconds of your day. It's an official match. Start to finish. Might be two minutes. That's with entrances. That's an official match. It counts. It counts.

Sorry, bud. It counts. But yeah, yeah, just, fun stuff with sting. You know what I mean? Jericho, like just, it's just fun, man. Just fun, let loose, fun,

which is what professional wrestling should be. Was leaving AEW on your own terms similar to when you left WWE in 2019 on your own terms? Yes, it was, I asked. I asked it on both occasions. Again, it just felt like my time, at those different time periods of my life,

I had maximized my time. in those certain situations. So I thought it was time for me to leave in 2019. I need to grow as a performer in as a human being. I got to do that for five years with AEW. And again, I always kind of go with inklings, like these internal gut feelings. Everybody always says follow your gut.

And sometimes what I have learned for me personally is that I have confused those actual gut feelings with what I think is a gut feeling. So I made a lot of wrong decisions in my younger career. or whatnot or younger life. And as time has gone on, through learning through ups and downs and bad calls, I've actually been able to go, oh, no, no, that's not the right feeling.

I remember what that's like. This actually feels like the right call. So luckily, I've been able to make the right calls career-wise. But that is heavily based on the relationships that I've created throughout those years. No one gets anything done by themselves. Everybody needs kind of a helping hand, so to speak. and professionalism takes precedence. It will carry you further than you can possibly imagine.

So that's what I tell a lot of young talents today. But leaving both companies at different time frames was a personal-based decision, and it was one that was best selfishly for me at the time. So you leave AW, then how do the conversation start to come back to WWA? I immediately reached out to Hunter and just said,

exactly. I paraphrasing him, I can't remember exactly what I said. Just like, look, I'm free. If there's interest, the ball's on your court kind of thing. And he just says, what do you want to do? He said, I want to contribute. And he said, okay, let me see what can happen. And then not long after that, I was in touch with here. And when this presented itself, the chance to come back here, I go hold on a second. So you're telling me I get to go back to a time frame, you know, that was one of my favorites in my career. I get to be around a lot of the younger,

or a lot of the coaches that help kind of build me up to this point. And I get to be under Sean Michaels. I get to understand how he thinks. I get to work and see how he operates. And then I get to kind of pass that knowledge down to kids. And I get to pass that on to students at flatbacks. Like, and I get to be in my bed every night. Like, yeah, let's, yeah, let's go.

Let's do this. So it was kind of a no-brainer. Yeah, I jumped all of. I jumped all over it. So are you doing stuff behind the scenes, not just what we see on NXT? Yeah. My responsibilities are more than just what you see on camera. It's great.

So I relish in that opportunity. I enjoy it. It's a learning curve. It's a lot. Yeah. But being on TV for as long as I have and being able to multitask on live television with 15 things happening at once that you have to be aware of, I feel that has helped me behind the scenes, being able to adapt.

quickly. And the best thing is I know what a lot of young talent are going through. So when they seize up or they panic or they have a great match and that excitement. I know all of those feelings. So I'm able to kind of, when things go well, I'm able to kind of, hey man, yeah, enjoy this. Remember what this feels like. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because there's going to be down points and just remember, keep eye on the prize. And then when things don't go well or when things are really hard or they're in a tough spot mentally, I'm able to. really understand because I've had a lot of a lot of down points too if we're looking at it as a in a totality type way but I'm able to understand I put myself in those shoes and I'm able to kind of guide in the right way what an endorsement for flatbacks you know like if I'm not if I'm someone who wants to train to be a wrestler why wouldn't I train with the guy who's in the PC who's on nxte who's doing it day and day out I'm it kind of it makes sense it makes too much Makes sense. Breeze also works here.

He's affiliated with WWE still. So he had two coaches that could, you know, you know. And it's not like you show up in day one and you get 20 chops, okay? Let's just put that out there. I get asked about that every day. I still hear about it a little bit every day. I had one student who's in my current class now. Say, hey, are we going to do the 20 chop day thing?

I go, 20 chop day. What do you mean 20? And I was like, oh, you saw the video. And he goes, yeah, yeah. That views, it's got to be up there. Oh, my gosh. One and a half. That's just for the full video.

But if we look at just the vertical, just the shorts or the TikTok or the reels, 50 million views maybe? No way. Oh, it's crazy. So then, yeah, and this kid's young. So I know he's all over. I was like, well, there might be a chop day, but it depends because chop day is a special thing. It's not what everybody thinks it is. It's a team building kind of.

There's a lot of lessons that go into those kind of days. But you were, yeah, you were the unicorn that day. You were a rare instance. But it lives, and it lives forever. Forever. And I think after about chop, maybe five or six, my chest just went numb. That's the best part.

You don't feel the rest. Yeah. I'll never forget. I left there and it felt like I had the worst sunburn ever. Like, it hurt to put clothes on. And you're like, just go grab some aloevara. We're near Orlando. There's lots of sunburn tourists at Disney.

Let's go grab some aloeuvre. You'll be fine. Sprinkling on. And you were right. Yeah. Sprinkling on. I know, I know, I'm one of the worst. I don't, do we have time for a quick?

Story. So, NXT years ago, when I was here before, we did a tour in Australia, and this is where we had guys. Like, we had an insane roster, Nakamura, Bauer, Samoa Joe. And I believe it was a six-man tag that night. Samoa Joe was on the opposing team. And I went to the beach that day in Australia, but I wasn't familiar with how strong the sun is. But it was a beautiful breeze, and it was cool. And I wasn't paying attention.

I was talking to people on the phone and da-da-da-da. I got cooked. Like, you wouldn't believe it. And I wasn't like lying in the sun. I was walking on the beach. Yeah. But I got so cooked from like here, like down. Half my body was white.

The upper half was brutally red. Like bad to the touch. Like your pants. I was just about to say it's a similar, maybe a little more burgundy, but like you touch me and I'd be like, don't. And I'm like, how am I, I'm a baby face? So I'm like, how am I going to fall? How am I going to bump tonight? And so Joe sees me immediately and he just starts laughing.

And I'm like, shit. Because he does a certain spot where he chops you in the back and, you know, I'm like, oh, here it comes. And we'd work so many times before that I know this is coming. So I had to somehow mix it with some tanner and other stuff to kind of balance out the color because I looked ridiculous. And I wore trunks at the time. So I was like, oh, this is going to be so bad.

And sure enough out there, time comes. I'm like, oh, and he gave me his regular chop, no harder, no less than he did any other time before. You would have thought that give me a paddleboard, just a rowing or just some. smacked me in the bed. It felt like it was the worst feeling in the world. And after that, I went and found about as much Alvara that I can possibly find. I'm pretty sure I took a bath in it and prayed for the best for the rest of the tour. But yeah. So overall, story time. But, yeah, I know about Alvara, buddy. I got you back. Passion, drive, and patience. The formula for winning championships is also what keeps your ride or die alive. eBay Motors has every

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Yeah. Yeah. Why was your name Stan? So when they pulled me aside for that, what was that Cyber Sunday, 2006? I had just gotten down to OVW and they needed a few hours. So they grabbed me, pull me over, and this is where I meet Sean and Hunter for the very first time. And they're doing DX and they're saying, okay, well, Sean's talking with Hunter. He's like, maybe I'll talk to him really quick. And then Sean turns to me and he goes, what's your name? And this is off. We haven't began rolling yet, we're going to roll live here at any minute. And I go, my name was Sean Spears at the time.

And I went, Sean? And he goes, Stan. I'll kick Stan. So he just said, your name is not Sean. My name is Sean. Your name is Stan. So he actually gave me the name. No one else did.

And he just went, I'll kick Stan. I was like, this is the best. He's going to kick me? Like, his, his kick? Like just a kid in a candy store. But yeah, he gave me the name. So I don't know if anybody knew that. But it wasn't creative.

It wasn't like someone on the writing team or anybody else, Sean Michaels. You're at fault for Stan. But Stan looked like he had a bit of a backstory because it wasn't just what's your name, Stan kick. It was you move the mic, you address him, then it's the super, sorry, sweet chin music. Sweet chin music, yes.

I didn't tune the band up, so was it sweet chin music? It was coming from Sean Michaels. To me, it counts. It's the only super kick that works in the world. That's true. It's the only one that works. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

That was pretty awesome. I still get tagged in the videos. I still get... It's almost 20 years ago. It is. Yeah. It is. Certain things just...

In wrestling, man, certain things just carry... You see the clips. I follow the same kind of like accounts on whether it be Twitter or Instagram just because nostalgic and all that kind of stuff. And if you're involved with them, it's even better. Yeah. But nostalgia is a hell of a drug. The time just, it flies by.

Yeah. It flies by. What are you learning? from working with Sean Michaels now? So one of my favorite things about professional wrestling is long-term storytelling. If I'm able to kind of, I don't have to be able to follow along every single week.

If I can, great. But if I'm able to go back and go, oh, and connect dots, that's my favorite kind of like, you know, I'm the same way in movies. If I piece it all together at the end, I go, whoa, I did not see that coming. Yes. So with him and his team here,

there's a lot of thought and effort put into long-term storytelling. not a lot of rushing of things and slow character developments, slow or at least drawn out character decisions. The other thing that I enjoy is that there's a lot of freedom to let the audience kind of see for themselves. Let the audience make some decisions. It's okay if they start leaning one way, wonderful. If they start leaning the other way, wonderful. We're just going to kind of see what happens.

So that's the beautiful thing about someone who has experience. Like in AEW, I had a lot of freedom. Anything that I ever said, whether it be live in front of the audience or backstage, I wrote myself. I said I didn't have to clear it with anybody. Here there's still that freedom, but because I can't see as far down the line as Sean Michaels can, you know what I mean?

With all his level of accolades and everything else, I'll go, hey, what do you think of this? And he'll go, not bad, what do you think of this? And I go, come on. So I'm very envious of that mindset, but I'm able to, I'm not going to get it.

I'm never going to get it. But if I can pull from those ideas or those experiences that he has had, then I can at least, A, start to understand it. But B, more importantly, I can pass it to younger kids or younger talents or I can apply it to an idea of kids at the school who come in and go, I want to wrestle for WW. I want to work there. Okay, great.

That's wonderful. Here's the ideas now, which will evolve in time. But here's the mindset. This is how, like, it's all just information that I can take in. I can try and apply to the best of my ability. But more importantly, I can pass it down the line. So those are the biggest things I'm taking away from him. At its core, it is amazing that you turned a botched chair shot into a gimmick. Think about that. So I think So Cody was an EVP at the time And

We went back and forth on I think we talked about this before On the one of our last meetings Yeah And you told you to swing for it He said swing for the fences I said hands He goes no hands

I went All right And you know I love that guy more than You know He's the godfather to my sons He's you know We're you know

And I think it was maybe a week after After I was done feeling horrible about what had happened. I kind of text him. I said, hey, man, I think we run this a little bit. Everybody's chairs in wrestling have been around since the beginning of time. But how can we kind of spin it? How can we make it a little bit different?

How can we add an element to my entrance? How can we add an element to the danger as a character? How can we make something that's been around different or put a little spin on it, which is wrestling in general? So if I just started calling myself the chairman, He goes, love it. And that was it. But then here we are now.

And it's still part of your gimmick. It's still part. We don't put a lot of emphasis on the chairman aspect of thing. That's one of those things I think where let's wait and see. Let's see which way they tilt. If they just keep going with it, okay. But we're not going to actively push anything down the throat. That was a beautiful thing coming in here.

It's just like, okay, here's the option for your name. What do you want to do? And look, we like the presentation that you had, which I came up with in AW. Yeah. Cody asked, hey, what do you, I think was all out was our match. Because what do you want to do for an entrance? I go, man, just black out the house with a spotlight on me and just sit me on a chair, nothing, and just wait. He goes, awesome.

And that is stuck. Yeah. You know, so being able to come over here and still use a lot of the ideas that I had originally for this new kind of Sean Spears type thing, it still kind of works and it still carries. And now we just, we're kind of digging deeper now. And working with the creative team here to kind of find out more psychological aspects to this character, which I've been like super fun. Because I love like the chicken shit heel stuff. So this is a good little challenge to kind of, hey, let's see how we can kind of pull back on the elaborate over the top fun stuff.

And let's see if we can kind of start pulling on different strings. And I am, I love that kind of stuff. There's a lot of times in wrestling where fans want something to happen. They're almost like fantasy booking it. And you and the Royal Rumble was one of those. Man, could you imagine if the perfect 10 comes out at number 10, but it'll never happen? And then number 10 comes around and your music hits and the place goes bananas.

Oh, you're talking about this, it's 2017. Yeah, yeah. Well, I thought you were talking about recently this past Rumble. I shot my shot. I was a little late. Was that going to happen? Yeah, no, it was too late. Could you have come back at number 10?

I think it was too tight of a time frame. Oh, man. Once everything had to be settled and settled and finalized, I think it was tight. Could you imagine? But again, that's, you know, things evolve and, you know, ideas are, I think it was the last minute thing. Obviously, RoRumble is a massive event every year for WWE. So I think I just, I missed it, but I shot it out there and they're just like, oh, things are done. It's set.

It was just down the street. It was just down the street. I was just down the street. I was ready. I was ready just in case. I had some stuff in the mix, worked out, made up, and just just in case, you know, always be ready. But we never have to get ready. When your music did hit in the Royal Rumble at number 10, and the crowd goes crazy,

chanting 10, 10, 10. What was that moment like? When people say, like, they don't have words, like, it's like, you could say, I'm not articulate enough to find probably the proper ones. I wish I was. But, you know, you know, you. You almost can't, you can't hear, you can't hear your music. You can't hear, you almost can't hear people.

You can, it's almost like, it's almost like if you plugged your ears as tight as you possibly can and just took deep breaths, that's all you hear. I didn't hear a lot of the people. I didn't hear my music. I saw them, but it's almost like I went, you know, I went deaf. I couldn't hear anything. It's almost like someone plugged. I can hear myself breathing.

I was sweating, but I was freezing cold, like shaking. Like it just, it's, you, you, if I wasn't in this as long as I had been, I might have been like, am I having a panic attack. Am I, am I? And I very well, could have been. But I've never felt more alive in that moment where every sense is firing or not working. But you, you're, you know, if I can't hear anything, I see everything. And I can, I'm like, oh, wow. And then you start running and then the sound starts coming back.

And then you're like, okay. And then you're there. Then once you hit the ring, the instincts and everything just start kind of coming back. But, man, it's obviously a career highlight for me. I don't know if anything will top it. Just the way it came about and the way it was told to me, I think I told you before, the night before we did takeover in San Antonio. And I'm literally outside of guerrilla ready for to walk through.

And Hunter sticks his head through. And he goes, hey, kill it out there tonight. You're in the Rumble tomorrow. And I talked his head back. And I went, what the? And then music. I was, damn it. And like just a perfect storm of opportunity and hard work.

and then being received the way I was. You know, it was a big thing. And then even coming back after five years, I was worried for a second that no one would kind of remember or, you know, you're a little trepidious about it. But they, man, just good moments. And I hope I explained it. I don't think I'll ever be able to actually explain it as best I could.

But, yeah, I, man, thank you. If you guys were there and you guys still talk about it, thank you. This episode is brought to you by Hello Fresh. With Hello Fresh, you get farm fresh, pre-portioned ingredients, and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Skip those trips to the grocery store and count on Hello Fresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it's America's number one meal kit. We all know that home-cooked meals are so much better for you, but you don't always have time to pull it off. But with Hello Fresh handling all the meal planning, all the shopping, and most of the prep,

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I'm sure you know, and you probably hear it all the time, how much fans miss Cassie. Yes, I do. That she missed. Does she miss wrestling as much as they miss her? She does. She watches it a lot. She watches it more than I do.

And that doesn't mean I don't watch wrestling. It just means I'm busy a lot. You're watching it as it's happening. I'm around. I can see a lot of stuff. Yeah, she keeps up on it. She still loves watching a lot of her friends. And she's still getting the itch.

So she's already weight training. She's doing all that kind of stuff. She's getting back into the mix and things like that. And when she feels 100% good to go, there's a ring close by. So she plans on getting back into it. She doesn't know to what capacity. Like she doesn't know, meaning there's no one said anything to. No one said, hey, when you're ready, come on back.

Like not impact, not anything. But with the working relationship, who's to say that that's not a possibility? But yeah, she still misses it. I think she still has a little bit of an itch. We'll see. Maybe you guys could do something together. Oh, she'll make me look second rate. She's been doing it for years already.

I don't know if I could do that. I don't know if my ego can handle it. You wore pink pants recently with your logo on the side. Is that a tribute to Brett Hart? Anything I wear pink and black is a tribute to Brett Hart. Anybody who wears pink and black is probably a tribute. But that, and no one really wears pink. You'll see a lot of girls wear pink.

Yeah, Natty wears pink. Natty wears pink. I think she has every right to. If anybody can and can get away with it or call for everybody else to stop wearing pink, Yeah. It's definitely Natty. FTR, obviously. Dax, a buddy of mine is a big, big, huge Brett Hart fan.

So we wore pink a few times together, working together over there. So, oh, 100% it's a tribute. Yeah, I saw that. It's a comedian thing, man. Yeah, isn't that crazy? It's, yeah, you kind of, you have to. You have to at some point. Yeah, when you're, I mean, you and I grew up.

And I look pretty in pink, man. I look pretty in pink. You do. You get a good tan, and you look extra tan and things. See, it's all, it's all, it's all premeditated partner. You know what I mean? Yeah, you and I grew up not that far. from each other in Ontario.

And it's like, when you think of the Canadian wrestlers, Brett Hart's number one. Like, and then everybody else after that, but Brett Hart's there. He's the guy. It's just so good.

That's it. Him, he just, you know, you got a childhood heroes. Yeah. Do you think about how much longer you can do this? Sometimes,

sometimes, uh, who is I, I was telling? Tara, who's on the medical staff here, who's been here for well over a decade. She's a sweetheart. We were kind of sitting off to the side in the gym, and a lot of the young talent were, you know, piecing things together.

They were doing some workouts and stuff like that. And a lot of the young talent here are early 20s, you know, mid-20s max. And I was just watching them all. And I just looked at Tara and I said, what's crazy is that right now, not one of them is thinking that one day this will end. you know they're all in the midst of the love and the passion and the excitement for it which is a beautiful place to be in and it will still be like that even if you're in it for a long time i still have those things but the reality of not being able to do this much longer physically actively in the ring has crept on me kept up on me a lot more so in the last you know four or five years than it ever has before um so when i see young talent like not even being a thing and not thinking about that it's just You realize almost how fast time goes and it puts it into perspective a little bit.

I don't sit there and get kind of sad about it. I sit there and go, okay, let's kind of maximize that time. I feel that way in any venture. Just nothing lasts forever. If you're lucky enough to be a part of it in some sort of way, you know, that's why I kind of have other responsibilities other than just in the ring because I'm excited about that. I love this shit. This is all I've ever wanted to do since I saw The Ultimate Warrior beat Honky Talk Man.

in like 10 seconds or whatever it was faster than punk beat me. But I saw that and I watched my two uncles jump to their feet and high five each other. And I was maybe six or seven. I just went, I want to make people do that too. I don't know. That's the only memory I have as the catalyst to what all this is. But there's nothing else I want to do. There's nothing else I hope to do.

And because of all of this, I get to provide a wonderful life for my kids. Yeah. So I just I'll miss it. I know I'll miss it. But maximize the time, enjoy the time. Whatever you have left. The fact that you're even thinking like this, I think means you're already ahead of the curve

because there's a lot of your friends, your colleagues, who wrestling just ends, and they have no say in it. And it ends without them being ready for it to end. You even thinking about it, it feels like, at least you're heading in the right direction. It's also talking to the right people and people who have been doing this a long time. And I won't get into many details.

But, you know, another benefit I have had since being here is I'll talk to Sean when I can. A guy is busier than he's a ninja. He gets a lot of things done, but you don't see him much because he's so busy. But there's been times where we've kind of caught each other in the right spot, the right time for 20, 30, 40 minutes sometimes. and I'll ask him certain questions about things that I worry about. Do you miss it or do you think about it a lot? And he gives me his perspective and his thoughts. Does he, does he miss it?

He could still do it. I think he could still do it. But he loves this. And that's the kind of thing that we, I get that. And I think he feels that from me as well. Like we both, we all love this stuff. But, you know, his thing is, you know, at some point, it does end, and at some point you have to let it go.

You have to let it go. A lot of people have a hard time letting it go, and that could lead to issues down the road later, whether it be psychologically, mental, financial, whatever the reason being, physical, especially physical. But get yourself to a good headspace, put your best foot forward. This is the way I interpret it. Just get yourself in the right headspace.

Maximize your time. Enjoy your time. Isn't that a dusty thing? Maximize your minutes. Maximize your minutes was a big, when that red lights on, that was a big thing. You still hear Cody say that

every now and then. Yeah, it is a big thing. But, you know, put everything into this. Put everything into this. When I'm 70, hopefully I'm there at 70, but I'm sitting on a porch

and everything. It won't matter. I've said this to you before. It won't matter how big my house is, how much money's in the bank. You know what I mean? You're not going to see a U-Haul behind a hearse.

It won't all I'm going to be able to do is think. That's it. That's all I'll be able to do is think. And I probably won't be able to remember the first 15 years of my career. I might be able to remember if I'm lucky the last three or four. How do I want to remember those? When my kid says, hey, dad, I'm thinking about doing this, but I'm not sure.

I want to be able to give them the right piece of advice. And then I want to be able to lead by example, hey, son, I did this. Or you should do this because I bet on myself. Bet on yourself. Good, bad, or indifferent. Been on yourself. Yeah. You know what I mean?

So it's just a lot of it is perspective. A lot of it is thinking ahead doesn't mean it's going to be that easy. It doesn't mean I'm not going to have to. Maybe I'll pick up softball or pick up basketball. I'll just have to pick up a hobby to fill some time. But, you know, it ends for everybody. It feels like the bets you've made on yourself have paid off. And congrats on that.

Sometimes, you know, maybe I don't, maybe it's human nature to always wonder if you made certain right calls of certain things as opposed to sitting back and going, yeah, I did okay. Some things I am. Like I know, I know for certain I am in the right spot right now with everything. and all the time has gone by and all the decisions that I have made, I can say wholeheartedly that I am in the right spot right now in WWE and NXT. And I'm very confident to say that I will retire and finish everything here. I don't want to go anywhere else, and that's not a shot to anybody else.

It's just I feel that everything that has happened in my career, everything's taken place in my life. As a human, as a performer, is all led to be in this exact spot, sitting with you right now talking about how good things just happen to work out. Life's good. Life is good. Congrats on everything personally, professionally. I'm going to hit you with the same question.

I hit you with the end of the last interview. Is gratitude such a big part of my life? What are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? Gosh. Oh, I think I said what is for my family. It can be different. I don't know it. See, a lot of my, a lot of my, just the way, I'm a pretty simple guy.

I'm not a man of change. A lot of what has got me. into where I am today is a lot of just sticking to, I guess, what I believe. And I don't have a lot of wild theories. I don't have a lot of wild conspiracies. I've made mistakes. I've done some good things. It's done some bad things. I've done some bad things. I think Anthony Hopkins said it once. He's like, I'm an old sinner. That's a good thing. It's done some bad things. Like, we all are. You know what I mean? You just always want to kind of hope that the good always the bad. But yeah, grateful for my family, grateful for the fact that I still get to be in this.

this position, this industry. I still get to be a part of all this. I think overall I'm grateful for time. That is going to be a different one. I don't know when it's going to end, but I know that I'm enjoying the time that I have now. That's right back to that quote. That's, it goes back to time, man. It goes back. It goes back to time. Ultimate currency. Yeah. Maybe this one more match with Cody. He hit a different level. He hit a different level. Right now we're kind of geared and focused on the CW launch and the CW debut in Chicago.

But let me know, you'll probably see him again before I do. That's how busy we both kind of are. And if you do, float it in his ear a little bit. He knows where to find me. I'm not hard to find. I'm not hard to find at all. No chairs, I promise. No, no, no, no chairs.

no chairs. Good to see you, my friend. Brother, always, always a pleasure. I appreciate you, man. Thanks, buddy. Always so good to catch up with Sean Spears, especially when I'm not on the receiving end of any chops, be it one or 20 of them.

And with what he's doing behind the scenes in NXT, sounds like he's going to be in WWE for a long, long time. Also, sounds like maybe there's a chance that we see Cassie Lee, a.k.a. Peyton Royce back in the ring at some point here. But, you know, they're both real busy in that household taking care of those two baby boys right now. But it sounds like, sounds like it's a possibility. And like he said, I know somebody was a ring that she could get in any point in time she wants.

Snap a screenshot, tag us so we can share it out. He's at Sean Spears on Twitter. The Sean Spears on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And we will wrap this up. with a quote from Henry Ford. When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it. Be great, be grateful, my friends. We'll see you back here tomorrow for some more insight.

Ask CVV number 50. If you've got a question for that, send it in using the hashtag Ask CVV. Leave a comment on Spotify. I love seeing those ones. So we will see you back here tomorrow for that one. and then Trick Williams on Tuesday. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary.

Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley.

Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.