Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Shayna Baszler On WWE Release, Ronda Rousey, NXT Black & Gold, Becky Lynch, UFC

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Shayna Baszler (@QoSBaszler) is a professional wrestler and MMA fighter best known for her time in WWE. She sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss her WWE release and still doing some work for the company as a coach, if a return as a wrestler is still possible, her dominant main roster call-up and feud with Becky Lynch, being Ronda Rousey's final WWE opponent and a possible Rousey return, her love of WarHammer 40K, and more!Please support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFFSTASH: Go to https://get.stash.com/INSIGHTto see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV2025 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount   NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!FACTOR: Use code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF to get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year!GLD: New customers get 50% Off with code INSIGHT at https://GLD.com PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVVand use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Great to see you. Good to be seen. How are you feeling? I feel good. I feel really good. Lots of time to spend with the dog now? Yeah. Well, actually, strangely enough, I feel like I'm busier and away from home more than I was before.

Just by the nature of taking every available opportunity there is to just do everything that I want to do. So I don't know. So what's keeping you busy? I mean, I'm still taking indie dates and doing stuff like that. I've been doing a lot of, like, guest coaching and shadowing producing at NXT. So pretty much, like, if I'm not on the road, I'm helping out there, if I can. So are you still then working for WWE? I don't, I'm not, like, officially hired.

But I have a good relationship with them. So, you know, I'm officially. guest coaching when I, when I, uh, when I can or when I, when the opportunity comes. That's a great spot to be in. Yeah. I don't hate it. I actually like it a lot more than I thought I would. It was kind of a thing.

So like how that all came about is that, uh, Daniel Brian during, during, during, uh, we had just got back on the road. Um, no. Were we on the road? It was during COVID. Um, and Daniel Brian was always a guy sitting in guerrilla. And it's kind of like, I don't know if it's still the same way now, but it's kind of like only the top guys can sit back on a headset and gorilla.

There's just too much, it's not enough room. Sure. So you don't want to crowd the place. But he was talking to me about like, if you ever get a chance to sit in the truck or sit on a headset, like it completely changed my wrestling. I feel like my wrestling went to another level because you get to see like what they look for and how they call things and the time it takes. So like you feel weird making a.

face for too long, but they have, you know, just TV stuff. Sure. And you realize that these are being done for the TV shots. And you wrestle differently for television than you do for a live crowd, right? So I was like, man, I'm just not, I wasn't in a position at that time where I could do that on Rar Smackdown. So I thought, you know, where I could do that is at NXT and NXC does live TV. So I kind of was down there and just asked one day, like, hey, do you mind if I just sit on a headset back here during the, during the show? Like, Coach Bloom, like, yeah. And if you're going to do that, you just as well follow around. Mossie's producing the women's match night. You just as well

follow him around all day so you can see the whole process. So I kind of just started showing up there when I was able to and when I wasn't completely dead from trash. travel. And so when I got the call about being released, I also got a call that was like, you know, it takes some time. But if you're still interested in keep on doing that, we're open to that idea. It sounds like this could end up being a full-time producing job or full-time coaching job. If I don't suck too bad at the guest part of it, then... Well, they keep bringing you back.

You know, it's pretty smart of them, too, because during my 90 days, I can, kind of was like, I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was in a little salty at first. But I kind of was like, you know what? What's the worst is going to happen? I hate it and then I tell them I don't want to do it. So let's just go in and do it. But they're smart to have done that because then I got like emotionally invested in, in like the athletes that are there that I'm working with and some of the girls,

even some of the guys, like seeing their growth and seeing collaboration ideas. and I know, like, I've been a talent, right? So I know how to, like, go from creative to the talent and kind of bridge the gap of, like, what creative is looking for and what the talent wants to do. And so, I don't know, I got emotionally invested in everything. So they kind of got me coming back. But, yeah, it's been a lot more rewarding.

I've enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would, to be honest. Also, if they're bringing you in while you're on your 90 days, you're getting paid for it anyway. Totally. I was getting paid. The joke was that I was getting paid more than any of the other coaches there during that time. But yeah, I guess it just helps, you know, and that's maybe some advice for talent, and you hear it all the time, but that's where you don't want to burn your bridges. You know what I mean?

And I don't, I'm taking opportunities to wrestle right now. And, you know, WWE in that respect has been very generous with like, yeah, yeah, go wrestle, come in and coach if you got time. Every now and then I'll get, like, someone to be like, hey, I had to take my dog to the vet. Is there any way you can teach my class? Like, that type of thing, substitute teacher, I guess.

But, you know, there hasn't been an ultimatum of like, you can't pick one or the other. or like you have until this date. Then you've got to decide like they've been very cool to me so far. With all the coaching you're doing, do you feel like your in-ring career as a WWE superstar is done?

I don't, you know, never say never in this business. If, I mean, golly, weirder things have happened, right? If I get over with something crazy on the Indies or something and I get an offer. But, I mean, I mean, you don't have to get over on the Indies. I know you're capable of.

Yeah, sure. I just, I don't know. I mean, I don't, see, it's a strange question because I don't know that I'm ever going to be someone that's like, yeah, I'm ready to be done. Right? I'll always feel like I can go. Well, your wrestling career is clearly not over. You're still working on the Indies. But, I mean, if you're already in the building, you're already in the performance center, they know what you're able to do.

At any point, they could be like, hey, Shana, would you like to work a match on Raw or Smackdown? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'd be open to something like that. Even, even there, they had, it wasn't in ring, but on NXT Homecoming. You know, I was there that day shadowing. And they just came up to me and they were like, hey, so it's homecoming. And we just thought it'd be cool if you appeared in this segment. I was like, well, I got to run home and get my cool jacket.

and kind of just did that. So, I mean, I wouldn't be against something like that. But on the other side of that, it's like, I want to knee-jerk and say, I'm 45. But it's not even my age. It's the miles. Like, I had 20 years of M.M.A. I had, you know, over 10 years total of pro wrestling.

So it's just about, like, quality of life thing for my body maybe. I have found on the indies that for right now, like things change a lot with how I feel, but for right now, I don't have like that same indie hustle I had in me as before. Like I don't want to lug a checked bag of t-shirts and, you know, like Cardona.

That dude has hustle. That dude makes money. And it works. Yeah. And that he's, you know, and there's people like that on the Indies. And I'm just like, man, I just want to wrestle. He loves that hustle. Yeah, he does.

And I did that. And I wouldn't say I loved it to the same degree, but I didn't mind it. But I think now that I've, I don't know, I'm just at a different stage where, like, the wrestling I'm doing now is less about, like, let's see what I can do and get as far as I can go. it's more like I guess to kind of like wet that creative appetite in me but also I

I really feel this this sounds so cheesy I really feel this sort of responsibility to kind of pass on what I have to give and to keep alive this shoot style catch wrestling

it's just not something you see out of especially out of the women and I think that I am finding that I have more concern for wanting to carry this banner than it is about like, all right, I want to make all this money doing this now, you know what I mean? And maybe some of it is that I know I have the coaching thing as a safety net. Like I have a safety net. So whereas before it was like, got to make this work. You know what I mean?

so maybe there's something to that, but I don't know. I just, my purpose in wrestling is different than it was when I first started. Is that just the, you've been in the business long enough, that it's just like, is this the wisdom that comes with age? Like, maybe there's, there's, I don't know if I'd word it as the wisdom that comes with age, but I think like the, I think I've been around wrestling enough that I know things I wish to see or things I wish to pass along or change or

what I want, you know, my legacy, I don't know, like how to put words to it. But I think it's just, it is like what is the lasting mark I want to leave? And it's not, you know, the lasting mark isn't going to be how many numbers are after the dollar sign. That's not what people remember. that's nice and all, but I don't know, I want to live forever.

And I think the way you do that is like, you leave a mark that lives forever. And nothing does that better than pro wrestling. Sure. It's legacy. Yeah. You have such a believable style. And that's what you're talking about here, right? You want to, like, pass on that believable style.

Obviously, a lot of that comes from MMA, but I don't know if everybody does it the way that you do. So where'd that come from? I think just part of it is, you know, I trained with Josh Barnett and Billy Robinson and those guys were very, if it was up to Josh and Billy,

I would go backstage before every show and I'd be like, all right, we're going to shoot wrestle right now. If you can beat me here, I'll play you over on the show. You know what I mean? Like real old school. I think when I first started wrestling,

I kind of used to get in these discussions with Josh, because Josh is very old, you know, he runs bloodsport. Very UWFI. Like, he wants to still keep that, is, wait, is it? Like, he wants to, you know, keep that believability. And I used to, like, argue with him. I'm like, Josh, but, like, it's not like that anymore. Like, the secret is out, no, right?

And he always, and it's a thing I repeat when I do seminars and stuff. But he would always say, the secret about pro wrestling being out is not an excuse for bad art. And I think, you know, when we talk about, like, Keanu Reeves for John Wick went and studied Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Right. And he went and studied three-gun shooting competition. Right. So that he could portray this accurately. So, like, if they're doing that in movies, and we all know movies aren't real, we all know exactly what a movie is,

like shouldn't we know what we're pretending to do also? And I get that there's a place for, like, there's a place for comedy and there's a place for everything. But my particular arm of pro wrestling is that believability. And that just comes from, yeah, just the upbringing I have in catch wrestling. learning catch wrestling first as the shoot style for MMA. And then kind of like being like, oh, this is pro wrestling. I get this now. When you come from the MMA background

and then you're transitioning into pro wrestling, you kind of have to relearn everything, right? So like, how difficult is it to pull a punch? It's not difficult to pull a punch. It's difficult to throw a punch that looks good. Pulling a punch isn't the thing. thing, but looking... Yeah, it's a good working punch.

Yeah. I think just habits that you've trained for years. So, you know, you talk about, like, throwing a right, throwing a punch, right? Like, if I throw a punch, I'm not going to telegraph to you at all that I'm throwing it. I'm just going to crack it from here.

But like, if we're in a wrestling ring and you're way up there and I throw this, it looks really dumb. So we have to like, wind up and show everyone in this place. I'm throwing this big punch, right? Like that type of stuff and getting it out of my head, I had to find this balance because I come into pro wrestling as this like, well, I represent real fighting, right? So I'm not do the cheesy pro wrestling stuff, but then seeing it on film and being like, oh, I get it, that looks kind of lame. Like, okay. And I explain it as like, I explain to my fight friends that it's sparring. So if I'm, I was Rhonda Rousey's sparring partner for years. She's fighting someone

coming up that always drops their left hand when they throw their right. Well, then it's my job in the sparring to give her this look and get cracked. Right? So pro wrestling at its best is sparring. We're improv stunt work and I'm giving you looks for the stuff that I know you do. there's so many spots that look believable. We'll go through a few of them here, but you basically punt Natty in the face. And like the spot is that her nose is broken. Maybe that's a little bit of camera magic,

but man, it looks good. I think there's something to learning the real way. I want to stay away from maybe saying shoot and not shoot, but like learning the real technique of doing things, I started teaching people how to throw forearms by teaching them how to throw a tieboxing elbow. Because if I know how to do something dangerous, then I know how to do something safe.

And I feel like skipping that here's how you do it dangerous, then waters down everything. So if I only teach you the working way to throw a forearm, well now it's like now when I'm trying to be nice, now it's even more water down and more. You know what I mean? It's like this trickle-down sort of thing. And I think along the lines of that, that knee,

I don't know how technical they get. The knee, when you throw a knee, it is a strike forward like a punch. And I think people mistake it and throw a strike up. They think a knee is upward, but a knee is forward. And I think all that is in the hips, and the magic of doing that is in the hips.

It has nothing to do with what's happening with my knee or my leg or anything, it's in my hips. If you crank your hips, you're going to, you know what I mean? And not being afraid to make contact so there's some confidence to, I always tell the people I'm working if I haven't worked with them, like, just do not flinch and I will not miss. Wow. I'll make contact with you. I have to.

That's what kind of contact are we talking? I mean, I mean, I'm a snug worker, but I'm safe. hardly anyone Remember when I kicked Aska's teeth out of her face? That was a, that was a... What happened? That was just a... I mean, one out of a million?

Come on. Did you instantly know? Yeah. And we worked the whole finish because we knew. We all knew. But, um... That must have felt awful. Yeah, it was terrible.

And she's so badass. She, like, came to the back afterwards and was kind of covering her mouth because, you know, she's like, you know, whatever. But she was like, no pain. I don't know why. She was like so jovial. I'm like, I am so sorry. Oh, my gosh. And she was like, it's okay.

No pain. Crazy. Just soccer kicked her in the face. She was like, yeah, it's fine. It doesn't even hurt. But, yeah, I mean, if, if, uh, But I have to make contact. And so I think doing 20 years of MMA where I'm working my accuracy

lends to this, I'm pretty confident in gauging my distance, in placing a shot properly. So I don't know. Does everyone have the time to spend the years it would take to learn how to do stuff for real? I get it. I get that that's not how it is. but I think there should be some aspect of that, or at least if there were, that things would be, it would be beneficial.

Is there a certain type of strike you do that you're particularly proud of? I mean, the knee, I think, I think, uh, you did this one knee to Rea Ripley, and it's like, oh, look like lights out. I'm sure you barely touched her. There, I mean, there's, there's, so people in pro wrestling, it's a weird thing, right?

If they're watching this, everyone's probably a pretty big pro wrestling fan and understand some of the ins and outs. Like, I was never overly protective. A lot of people do that knee or some version of it. And it was a signature thing I did. And I was never really overly protective because I just thought, mine looks crazier, so go ahead. You know what I mean? There was a side of me that thought that. There's a handful of people in the world, I think, that I'm,

like, oh, dang, they do that good too, you know? But there's just some things in the knee being one that I think is like, like, okay. And if Billy always used to say, if someone doing your move makes your move less, then you, that's not really your move. It's their move. Sure. So, like, I don't know. I never went into.

It's a great point. Lots of people do cutters, but nobody does an RKO. Right. Yeah. And nobody watches Randy doing RKO and they're like, another cutter on their show. Like, they still want him to do it. Right. So I think there's this like fine line between being protective.

And I've been on indie shows where they have like a list. Sure. He heard about like the infamous list. Right. It's like, okay, so in this match, they're going to do super kicks. So nobody else does super kicks on the show. And it's crazy. And I get like, okay, you don't want like a ref bump every match or like.

Sure. We're trying to tell a story. I get that. But, like, I never was on a UFC card and was, like, an arm bar, what am I going to finish my match? You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. It's a little different there, though. If everyone, if every fight on a UFC card in a knockout, people would be like, this was the greatest fight card ever.

That's true. And I think, like, yes, there is a difference, but I think we lean so far the other way. I think we think way too hard sometimes as pro-I do it myself You know what I mean There'll be times where I'm like Okay, I don't want to have her duck Like I'm thinking in the match of like a HOB spot I'm like I don't want to have her duck my line

I've already thrown a clothesline that she's ducked Nobody in the audience is going to see this happen and go again Like we think that because we're in it all the time But I don't know I just think it leans too far that way And if I don't know Your stuff is good and if it's

I don't know I don't know, maybe that's some old crotch. Maybe that's the old... I've been in this too long. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clevenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking.

I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. I thought the run you had in NXT was just unbelievable.

And like that time of NXT, Black and Gold, it's just so special. The best. Yeah. The best. You can make a real argument that Black and Gold NXT may be the best run of any wrestling company ever. Like that three to five-ish year run. Every story, like the main title stories, the mid-card stories, every story was like there was no bathroom break, right?

You wanted to see how everything played out. There was a time where NXT Takeover was the known, like, pay-per-view of the weekend that you, like, did not want to miss. For sure. Like, this is going to steal the weekend. And that is a great time to be. I say it about the women's locker room all the time. Like, I'm a big Japanese pro wrestling fan and my kind of, Lyra asked me once,

what's your comfort watch in wrestling? I always put on, like, all Japan women or Gaia. I really feel like that black and gold locker room we had, you could put us up against any of those locker rooms of like the 90s women's Japan, Joshi beating each other up locker rooms and we could have, you know, we, we held up. I think that's, it was all around, like you said, the men's stories and the women's stories, but obviously I'm in the women's locker room at the time.

Everybody was legit. Like, every person in that locker room was like, and speaking as a female athlete, it kind of an anomaly, everyone got along. Everyone was friends. There was no one trying to, like, politic and be... Everyone wanted to tell the story. Everyone hung out outside of that. And I think all that helped, you know what I mean?

The chemistry and stuff. So that's just, that was like, dang, I'm so... That will forever be like, man, that was... I got to be a part of, like, peak wrestling. Well, and not only a part of it, you were the NXT women's champion, too. So like the top of the heap of this incredible time. Yeah. It was, I mean, the, and being there with my friends, like, Jessman and Marina,

were like my, my, like, what do you call them? I don't know. A little sidekicks or whatever at the time. And just being able to hang out with my friends and have fun with my friends and, and the stories we told, it was just, it was so good, man. It was so good. Do you remember the conversation when they told you you were going to be the NXT champion?

So I remember they never really so there was one class we have at NXT you know we have class every single day but there was one class I was in Sarah O'Mada's class and she pulled me aside before class

come here I need to talk to you and she was like you have a a very good opportunity coming up and I want to see you making mistakes and being uncomfortable in class because this could be a really good opportunity for you.

And I think, you know, she's trying to give me the Iggy, like, they're talking about it, so get better sort of thing. Like, work on the stuff you need to work on because you're about to be put. Like, to be honest, I wasn't there very long. I, you know, I wouldn't say on paper skill-wise for TV that I was ready. But, you know, it's like, sink or swim.

So get working on the stuff that's going to make you sink because it's coming up. And so then I remember being like, whoa, okay, this is crazy. All right. And yeah, that was that whole feud with Ember Moon. Yeah. Were you ready after the stuff you did in NXT to move on to the main roster? I think there's a learning curve regardless moving from NXT to the main roster. and I don't think I understood at the time

that the main roster audience is so much bigger than NXT that most of them don't know who you are. There is that hardcore crowd and they show up at paper views and whatever that know, but the majority of people that watch Smackdown and Raw do not watch NXT. And so I think that was a bit of a wake-up call, for me because I debut at the Rumble, but the Rumble is a big time pay-per-view. So you're talking

about like the diehards are there. So they did know me when I came out at the Rumble. So that feels good. So then when I'm, you know, they tell me they lay out this general plan, like we're going to put you in a feud with Becky and this is going to be your thing. And I think like people not knowing like I'm doing house shows and stuff and people not really knowing in the audience about me yet, they just know, oh, this is that. And a. T-Girl that they called up. There is some learning curve there. Do you feel like you have to win them over?

I feel like I have to reintroduce my... I don't know that it's about winning them over, but they don't know my... Sure. It's important... They're seeing you for the first time, maybe. Yeah. I don't know my signature stuff.

They don't know what I do. They don't know my style, especially my style. I'm already behind the ball because my style in the United States at that time, it's a lot better now, at that time it was not, you know, it's not a style you see very often. So people aren't as familiar.

So just, yeah, reintroducing myself to an entire new audience. And, you know, it helps being put into programs with people like Becky, these people that are really well-known. Becky and Bailey and these guys. But that was like, I think it was the hardest to get my footing as far as that, especially because a lot of what I do is very like up close. So I think at first before COVID, like that's not something easy for like those people we were talking about to see, which is why I think to some extent COVID helped me because we didn't have a live crowd. So the only view that people got was the camera that zoomed in on me. So now when we get back to an audience, everyone's seen what it's about.

But yeah, just trouble getting my footing as far as that and then even just finding like I think Vince at the time didn't watch NXT religiously right? So he would get told stuff

oh this is Shana, she's a badass I don't know I don't I'm just surmising that he's told about what we kind of are she's badass she did MMA she's friends with Rhonda Rousey, here's Shana. So, like, even he doesn't know, like, what I'm about in the ring. So even introducing yourself to him is kind of a thing. So, and then just being generally being aware that, like,

when you get called up from NXC, you're going to get this little push because you're, like, the new thing, whether it goes anywhere or not, right? Like, and I don't want to be, I don't want, like, these, stars, Becky and Bailey and these girls, to think I'm coming in, like, I'm the new thing, as everyone move over. So being very like, oh, I don't know. Like, it is, it is less about, like, I don't know if I'm ready skill-wise, but more like, just finding your place.

You had so many amazing, like huge opportunities when you first went to the main roster. Like Survivor Series 2019, you beat Becky and Bailey in the main event. that's huge. That was a crazy time too. Crazy. That whole invasion. That's wild. And then you at the Royal Rumble, it's one of the most dominant performances ever.

Yeah. And that actually, really funny story about that. I wasn't, so I was in the Rumble, and all I knew was they were talking about me being one of the people that wins it. There's like a handful of people that they're like, her or her or her. and then the night before the Rumble no two nights before the Rumble I get a call from Paul Haman

and he's like hey I just want to let you know because he was a part of creative at that time he's like you're not we're not gonna be in the Rumble but it's not because we don't want you it's because we've decided you're not going to win and we don't want to waste the opportunity everything's still going to go to plan

you're just not going to be in the Rumble. Okay, cool. I go to, NXT had like a pay-per-view like Saturday. Right, they had their pay-per-views on Saturdays. I go to watch.

And then the girls on that pay-per-view that were at Rumble, like they have NXT showing up in the Rumble, we're all getting ready to get on a bus to leave.

The pay-per-view is as soon as they were done to go to rehearsal for Royal Rumble. And one of the TR comes up to me, and they're like, Shanna, did you bring stuff with you? Like, could you get in a ring right now and do rehearsal? Yeah? Like, okay, well, they want you to go to rehearsal tonight, the Rumble. Okay. So I get on the bus, and they're like, all right, so we decided to put you back in the Rumble.

We're going to protect you. You're still not winning. here's the plan. So it was like this like, yeah, yeah, I'm in it. Oh, no, I'm not. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay, this is crazy.

So, yeah. And I think there was some discussion of like, because Santino was in the women's rumble. And I think originally he was supposed to be number 30. And I think there was this big to do about like, that's such a down, like, like, yeah, it's funny, whatever. But as number 30? Yeah.

Like that would be late. Like, the fans, there's going to be backlash. So then I got switched to number 30. And I think that was Hunter, like going to bat for me too, was I think he was like, if Shane is not in the Rumble and we put Santino at number 30, everyone's expecting the NXT champion to come out and it's going to be Santino, that's going to be bad.

And so I think he kind of went to bat for me to be put back in the Rumble. Yeah. Did they like, when they gave you the plan where they like, you're going to eliminate this many people? Because you had, how many eliminations was it? Eight. Eight. Yeah, it's tied for the most.

I think still today, right? Amazing with who? Bianca. Wow. Yeah. It might be, like, since... I don't know, we have all the world's information here. Post-COVID, let me see.

But for a while, it was that. But did they tell you it's going to be eight eliminations? They don't tell the number. They just, so when they're, when they're putting... putting together that, though, just be like. It's now nine. Ah, who did it? Held by Naya Jax.

Oh, Naya. 2025. Ah, see? Just last Rumble, yeah. Oh, killer. I'm so sorry to have delivered this information of just the messenger. Oh, I'll let her know. I'll let her know.

Yeah, they kind of, they don't, they don't tell it to you like that. They just kind of, when they're reading the Rumble thing, they're like, this person's out. They just kind of read the order of who comes out, and then the order of who's... When you're in the ring, are you thinking to yourself, okay, so I've got to eliminate this person,

and then a few minutes later, the next person's going to be this person. You know what's really funny about rumbles is if you, if you pay attention, most of the rumble is, like, watch the people not doing the stuff in the center. We are all around the ring, like trying to get the other people to break.

It's so funny. We're just like saying the funny. funniest stuff. Also, Rumbles are crazy. Like, there's no way. So, like, people that think everything is planned and scripted,

there's no way to memorize, like, a one-hour match. Right? That's crazy. I can know when my stuff is, and then, like, probably the final four. There's a lot of stuff to remember. But, like, you have to, it's a lot of, like,

someone's music hits, and you're like, do you have any? with her? Okay, just punch me. You know, then you go over here so that they can, like, it's not, I don't know, it's every single, not just the Royal Rumble, every single battle royal I've been a part of, and this is as a talent and now as helping produce, every single battle royal feels like, oh my gosh,

this is going to be, this is going to be a disaster. I have no idea what's going on. Nobody has any idea what's going on. This is going to be, all right, I guess we'll see. And they always turn out really good. I don't know. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to go. It feels like you were being booked as like the female Brock Lesnar. Was that like ever a title they gave to you beyond the scenes? Yeah. So I had some issue with this because I don't think even black and gold, I don't think I was female Brock Lesnar ever.

I think that's a bad analogy. I think it's a easy comparison to make because it's like, oh, this badass and also MMA. But it's also like you ran through people at the Roman. You ran through people at elimination chamber. I think, I think in that sense, yes. But I think, like, I don't know, I just, I feel like there was some set up. And it's hard to say.

Like, I know I get a lot of times and I very much appreciate fans that are like, oh, man, they really fumbled the ball with you. Oh, man, that elimination chamber. Oh, man, what, whatever they thinking? But it's hard to say because of, like, what happened in the world. Like, I was originally told, and who knows, like, in this business, but I was originally told, like, yeah, you're going to go into a feud with Becky and eventually win the title offer. COVID happens. And then I get, and then we all get told, like, well, there's going to be no audience.

So we want a title change like that to happen in front of a live crowd. And remember at that time, we didn't know this was going to be like a year. Yeah. Right. So we'll wait until we get back to live crowds And we'll just keep extending the thing And then Becky gets pregnant And they don't want to just award a title to me

So then it was like Okay, Oskah, so maybe we'll put you in a feud with Oskia Funny story about that by the way, I'll tell this Nobody knows this story. All right, you get the juice. So COVID happens And they're like, yeah, not in front of no audience. What we're going to do is

We're going to shoot cinematic money in the bank up the tower, right? Remember that one? Like, you're going to win that and then carry your feud on with Becky as the money in the bank would. Okay, great. Cool. Whatever, whatever you need. We fly in, which was really weird because everything was shut down. So it was like ghost town at the airport and everything.

That was really weird. But we get there and they're reading us the general idea for money in the bank. in Titan Tower. And we're like, all right. And then, da-da-da-da-da-da. And Oscar climbs and wins. But they had told me like, oh, you're going to win money in the bank.

And so my like newly called up NXT fresh meat is going, oh my God, they've lost faith in me. They hate me. They don't want me to be in this. They're taking me out of the thing. I don't know. This is so bad. Crap.

And so I'm just like beating myself up. And then it was totally k-fabed to the locker room and everyone. Becky comes out and announces this whole thing about being pregnant. The winner of the money in the bank won the title. And I was like, you guys couldn't have told me? Because I've been thinking this whole time that I'm the worst. And you guys hate me. But you couldn't have been like, hey, it's not you.

We can't tell you why. You'll find out. Like, you just were like, and then you're going to win money in the bank. No. You're going to win money. Like, come on, guys. So, like, you have no idea I was beating myself up. Like, oh, crap.

the end of my career. It must have been so tough, though, to work WrestleMania. So let's go back to Elimination Chamber first. So that performance in Elimination Chamber was unbelievable, right? You just crushed everybody. Yeah. And then you have this massive momentum going into WrestleMania, and then it's like, oh, by the way, it's going to be in front of nobody.

So it's like the wind is taken out of the sales here. But walk me through this Elimination Chamber match. Like, you just dominating everybody. Yeah. So there was a big discussion amongst everyone involved, talent and producer producers. Like, maybe Shana starts and then just one by one has a one-on-one match with everyone and eliminates everyone. And then there was like, well, that's, no one's going to like that. And so kind of the compromise after all the discussion was don't have me start, have somewhat of a match.

Then I come out, clean house, and then I have the one-on-one with Liv and Oskine. And so that's the way it worked out. And it was great. And there's a moment, man, there's a moment. And this is like speaking on Liv Morgan, I come in, I eliminate. the first three. And then it's Liv and Oskah is still in the chambers. And I remember

like, you know, I'm pacing back and forth. The clock is going down. The crowd is booing. And I remember looking at Liv and I'm like being Shana, you know what I mean? And I'm like looking at Liv and I remember like she was actually emotional. Like she's crying and she's like, I'm going to go to Russell Media.

She was actually emotional. And I remember, like, thinking like, oh, man, is she upset that I'm winning this? And she's been here and she wants to go to WrestleMania. Like, you have heat now? Oh, God, she's going to come at me. All right, I'm ready, you know? But that's just speaks on Liv Morgan and how in the moment she was. And then, yeah, and then that finish with Oscar was, you know, with the crowd booing.

I love it. It's so funny, too, because in the moment. the crowd's booing. People hated it, but everyone talks about like, oh, man, that elimination chamber match was the best, you know, just like my NXT run. People at the time were like, can't believe it.

She's killing the division. It's terrible. And then, you know, all people talk about it now. Now they look back on it. Yeah. She was so great. So don't listen. Don't listen to social media, guys.

And that elimination chamber match, you're like bashing people's head, like just swinging. And that, like, those are some crazy spots. Yeah. And that, so that thing, Liv Morgan, into the side of the cage like that, Vince loved that. So you remember when Naya and I were a tag team? That was like one of the things we would do.

We would go to the barricade and just swing people back and forth into the barricade. So that was something I got to keep for a while. I did it to Becky, you know, on the, in the WrestleMania match against the desk. So he loved that. Yeah, that was great. Did that still feel like a WrestleMania match with Becky? So I remember pulling up to the PC that day for my WrestleMania match and sitting in my car, I parked outside and sitting in my car and being kind of down.

This is my WrestleMania match. And I have three nieces and a set of twins and then an older one. And at the time they were five and seven years old. And the twins, five-year-olds, were still at a stage where they believed wrestling, right? They watched me fight, so I don't know that they knew that it was any different at that time. And I had gotten them all tickets, and they were going to come and sit in the friends and family section at freaking WrestleMania. They love wrestling. They believe it.

I'm going to have a title match at WrestleMania. They were going to be there and see them. anybody that's seen WrestleMania, like, could you imagine being five and being a superfan and your aunt that you think is a hero is wrestling and you're going to see this huge thing? And then they couldn't, you know what I mean? And I remember being, like, pretty down about that. In the match, I am proud of the match that we had. I wish I could have that match with Becky in front of a WrestleMania crowd because energy changes.

everything and definitely the energy, WrestleMania, like it definitely would have changed stuff. But I am, I do feel a sort of like pride in the fact that we did that because it was at a time where nothing else was going on in the world. There was no sports.

Even like TV and stuff, stop shooting stuff for a while. Yeah. Because that was early COVID. Yeah. And that was like a scary time. Yeah. Nobody knew how long.

So we were like the only. only thing on. And it was like the world was really, it was a scary time. Because like we didn't, like I said, we didn't know how it was going to play out. All we knew was like, oh man, we got a, this is like a zombie thing. Like we need to all kind of stay in. And we were the only thing on. And I do think like we all took a sort of like, took pride in the fact that we could like help people escape from like the world for a second. Yeah. But dang, yeah. I do often, I'd be lying if I didn't say. I often wonder what trajectory difference there would have been,

if we would have been able to have, like, WrestleMania. Is that still your WrestleMania moment? I'll be honest. I think the tag match I had me and Naya against Tamina and Natty, and I know it wasn't like super feature big time main event title like Becky was meant to be, but I think because it was, well, it was emotional for all of us because it was like the first time back in front of an audience. Even though it was only, what, like.

It's like half full. Yeah, like 50, 25% maybe. Yeah, that's right. I went to that as a fan and my row had cardboard cutouts in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which looks great on a wide shot. Yeah. But I remember, you remember us, there's clips of us on stage for the intro

and we're all kind of like crying because hearing, I'm getting emotional now. hearing the crowd. Why is it making me emotional? Hearing the crowd say, welcome back. Because it was such a, it was such a big time in the world

because it was one of the first big events where it's like, everybody's back. Don't play this clip. It'll ruin everything about me. We all know you're still a badass. I get it though. That's so weird because I've talked about it before

and I don't know why it's making me emotional now, but just like. Especially after like not being in front of a crowd for a year. And you get so used to it. Like we got kind of used to having no crowd. And so I think suddenly being thrust in front of a crowd and like for the crowd as well. This is like the first show they can show up. So their energy was like, yeah, it was only quarter or half capacity or whatever.

But the energy was so high because like fans are excited again, right? Because it was like we're finally like the world feels real. And like, feels back to normal. At least a little, kind of. And so I think, like, the emotions of that. And then Naya really, like, to her, as much as I hate her, I'm just kidding. For people that don't know, we're really good friends. You broke her arm.

But she kind of came up with the finish of that match. And let me kind of have. the spotlight for the finish of that. And the way the crowd received, like, the whole match and the finish to that and the culmination. I think, like, when Tamina got up to do the Snooka thing, like, the crowd going crazy for that. Like, that was just really cool.

That was really cool. So when I think back on WrestleMania moments, that's the first one that comes in mind. And then obviously, Ronda and I had talked about doing a mania for 10 years. You know what I mean? so finally getting to show up at a mania with Rhonda, even though we were a little bit handcuffed just because of injury and stuff, but the way the crowd hated us, that felt good too.

When was the first time you met Rhonda? On the Ultimate Fighter. I mean, we knew about each other. She had been making waves, you know, Rhonda Rousey and the unstoppable arm bar. And at the time, I was very active fighting. I think I was in the top five. And so I was always in this conversation. of like, well, when Rhonda fights these girls, and I couldn't wait.

Like, I'm like, yes, I can't wait to fight this new girl. But then when I got on the Ultimate Fighter and we met, it was like, the first thing is like, oh, it's weird that I'm only just meeting you now. And she goes, yeah, that is weird. I heard you have a zombie apocalypse contingency plan. I'd like to talk to you about that sometime. I was like, you got it. We'll do it.

That was like the first thing, the first sentence she ever said. So it's like that scene from stepbrothers? Did we just become best friends? Yeah, pretty much. Yep. Pretty much. Yeah, it was great. And the thing with Rhonda, too, is that immediately, it's kind of the same now, only to a different degree, I suppose.

But Rhonda was brash. She's always been, she doesn't have a filter, she says what's on her mind, she doesn't think enough sometimes. But that's kind of like, you know, she was coming in, armbarring everybody, and then cutting a promo on the mic. And I've been a pro wrestling fan. my whole life. So I kind of liked this. You know what I'm like, I get what she's doing. I don't even know her enough to know if she knew what she was doing, but it was getting so much attention for women's MMA.

I was a fan of this because I've been fighting so long and nobody, you know what I mean? To this day, people don't know a lot of, like, my MMA achievements. But I knew it was going on. So I never jumped on the, like, hate on Ronda train. A lot of the girls just didn't like the new girl. She's coming up. She hasn't paid her dues. We've been doing this not on TV.

Like, where were you when we were putting the work in? How can you talk like this? Like, I got what she was doing, man. You know? And so I think when I got on the Ultimate Fighter, I didn't automatically, like, oh, not that, girl. You know what I mean? So it all worked out.

I mean, it all worked out. You went to WWE first. Did you kind of, like, sell her on WWA? Ronda has said in interview. that she saw me pro-wrestle. She watched me fall out of love with MMA, pro-Ressel, be happy, love it, and therefore fall back in love with MMA. And she has said in interviews, I've heard her say that she saw that in me,

and it made her want to try it. And, you know, I was the one that reserved the TV and the house. We were all living together, and I was going to watch Ron Smackdown, and we're going to watch all the pay-per-views. And at the end of a hard training day, you guys were doing like two a day's fight practice. You don't want to move. So Ronda would just park herself on the couch, and then I would turn wrestling on, and she got sucked in.

And yeah. So, yeah, I'll, you know, not saying Ronda wouldn't have done wrestling if it wasn't for me, but. I'm sure they were scouting her for a while. Probably. when the conversation became real of like, okay, we can actually make this happen. You can be in WWE.

I'm sure she bounced a lot of ideas off of you. Yeah, I mean, we talked all the time. She did her little WrestleMania thing with The Rock and, you know, he pulled her out of the audience and whatnot. And so like the dream was like, man, what if this becomes a thing? Like, this is so cool. And I'm backstage at WrestleMania. I'm the one of the four of us that have been a lifelong fan.

So you can imagine me just like freaking out. Like, I'm backstage at WrestleMania. Holy crap. There's a little. Oh, look at Dean Ambrose. I remember seeing Dean of me and like, whoa, he's so cool in person. I didn't even talk to him. I just saw him walk by.

I'm like, he's so cool in person. Oh, man, you know. Wasn't that also the heist of the century, WrestleMania? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We got to witness that. And I do remember I had a fight like the week prior.

And I tore my ACL. And so I had this, I went to, I was sponsored at the time by Cold Steel Knives. So Cold Steel's in California. I went to headquarters and I was like, I need a cool cane sword thing because I don't want to wear a crutch. I don't want to crutch around. I'm going to WrestleMania. So I got this cool cane with like a skull thing and it's meant to be this big, heavy weapon that you swing at people. Cold Steel is like a weapon company for people that don't know.

but I had this like cane and I'm going to WrestleMania and I remember Rhonda's spot where she's like going to throw Hunter and and do everything and he's like so what throw are you going to do? And that's I don't, that's not normal. Like you're not going to ask what are you going to throw me with?

But I think because Rhonda's not a wrestler, right? And she's like, um, it's going to be a, and I was like, you can do it to me. I was like going to show them that I could be thrown and I can bump. With a torn ACL. They don't know. They don't know I have that going on.

So I'm like, oh, you can just demo on me and Jay Duke's like, Shana, you're, I'm like, I'm good, you can throw me. So I get in the ring and she tosses me. In a WrestleMania ring. Yeah, in a WrestleMania ring. That's cool.

And, you know, that's probably my real tryout. No, no, but, yeah, that's that, that whole, thing happened. So Ronda and I talked for a long time about like, oh, wouldn't it be cool? We actually talked about it for a long time in fighting. Like, Rhonda, I'm going to beat everyone and then me and you are going to have a fight for the title and I'm going to be the one that finally fights you for rounds, you know, and it didn't work out that way. But we kind of had that in, in WWB a little bit.

How long leading up to that SummerSlam match in Detroit, did you know that that was going to be Ronna's final match? So I knew because I'm very close with her. That was the last date on her contract because she had planned to have another baby. And that was the plan. I mean, Rhonda loves nothing more now than being a mom. And so I knew for a while. We for so long wanted to start that story.

and I think like if we would have had longer, I think that would have benefited us a lot because I think we did a great job with the time that we had. But we were begging for this tag team to start because we knew it started with us being this tag team. Starts with us being this tag team. And I think to my understanding, Vince didn't believe, it might not be true,

but somebody had told me that he didn't believe that the crowd knew that Ronna and I were friends. What? And so we tried to, you'll, if you go back and watch, me and Rhonda tried to create these moments for crowd reactions so that he could see that people know. Like, when she showed up as a surprise in the Rumble, and then I came out at number 30 that year,

I like did my thing, clean a house, and then it was me and her, and it was just me and her, and the crowd, and then, you know, Charlotte came and took it away. we were like oh for sure he's got to know now you know and then we had another one

where we had a tag match but we were on opposing teams and we were like all right we're not going to touch because we don't want to give that away well let's have this moment and the crowd came for that as well

and we were like God he's got to know right and I think it was just like I think I was just in a different place at the time she was like top of the card Rhonda Rousey right and I was like

doing my own thing on the mid card at the time. And so I don't think he saw our paths crossing, really. But we were begging for it, like forever to start this. Like, that's the reason Rhonda started wrestling, I think, is like, we want to do this fun story, right? But, you know, it didn't work out that way. And like I said, I think we did a good job with the time that we did have. How did you feel about the reaction to that match at SummerSlam? People didn't like the MMA rules, I guess.

Yeah, so we kind of knew going in that that was going to be the initial reaction. Like everything, I do get a lot of, like, I don't think people appreciate that match. I thought that match was so good. Now, in saying that, fight friends that I have that are in the MMA world that aren't necessarily pro wrestling fans, and also fellow talent backstage that understand how things are, have both said, like, that was so. such a good match because it's so hard to pull off. But we did know going in that it was not going to be received initially the way that we would want, of course. Like, you'd prefer it. Everyone loves it, and it's a banger and everyone talks about it for ages. So two things we talked about deliberately

was one, we wanted to do this for us. Like, if you start, doing your art, it's such a fine line. I don't know how to word it, and I'm sure there's some clever quote. But I feel like if you start changing your art for the public, then it isn't your art anymore. And so I think we wanted to make sure to stay true to what we wanted to tell. And two, we knew that right now they weren't going to like it, but people would look back on it out of context of you just saw a whole card of crazy pro wrestling and then you're going to stick this kind of like MMA rules match in the middle of it.

It's a little bit of a handicap. On top of that, we get there and freaking Detroit. I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan so I can be upset at them right now. There's no Tron. There's no Tron. So we knew the stuff we were doing, the stadium wasn't going to understand it in the moment. There's no, we needed that.

Also, it's come up a lot. We asked for a cage or a fight pit. But because of the stadium, they had no way to, so there was no rig for a fight pit. So then when we asked for a cage, the stadium has no drop-down for a cage. It's a big open air stadium. So they would have had to build the cage around it, and they just didn't think there was the time. So they were like, what are you guys?

Any other ideas? And we're like, can we do rounds? We have like, you know, like, roll the sports. Three, five minute rounds or something like that. Yeah. And they were concerned that fans wouldn't understand the rules. So I just feel like for a blow off, we had to rush to this MMA rules.

I think this MMA rules concept could have worked if we could have built to it over a longer story. You know, her and I have like a pro wrestling match. Something weird happens. Then we have like a submission only. You know, you'd like build to this. And I think people would have understood it a little better. We could have told the story a little better in ring as well. But, you know, it is what it is.

And we understood what we were getting ourselves into. and that was the choice we made was like, let's do this art for us. By the way, I have seen comments of people that were like, if they wanted to do an MAM match, then they need to just punch each other for real. Guys, we were fighting.

Like, we weren't trying to knock each other out, but we legitimately went in with like, all right, let's just spar and see what happened. I legitimately broke my thumb, and my eye was swelled shut. How'd you break your thumb? Probably punching. Like, that's the way it always happens.

I just had, it was like down in here. So afterwards, I'm all messed up. My eyes swelled shut. And they're like, hey, we're in the football stadium. There's an X-ray machine right next door. You have anything that hurts? And I'm like, my hand kind of hurts. I don't know.

It's probably nothing. And they were like, oh, yeah, you broke your thumb. So when I come out the next day, I have a singles match with Zoe. I'm wearing a cast on my hand. My eyes swelled shut. Like, all that is legit. That was not, like, for the story or a work or anything. I was truly, like, messed up.

How'd you wrong get messed up? Knee me straight in the face. Like, straight, full-on knee to the face. Like a great best friend should. Yeah. And that's kind of the, that's kind of what happens, right? Is you know that you can get away with it with your friends. I have been Ronda's sparring partner for many years.

Ronda has two speeds. So. What are those speeds? The on or off. So I knew, I don't know if it's funnier if anyone can find a clip, but the match starts. And she kind of throws this, like, timing little pump, like fake at me, jab. And I just counter and popped her in the nose, just a reflex. And I was like, and I was like, oh, shit.

Like, here we go. And I knew it was on. And we were just fighting after that. That's her last pro wrestling match, as we sit here right now. Do you think she's done? I never think Rhonda's done. She's a crazy person. I don't know.

She loves being a mom. It would take a bit, but I mean, come on, CM Punk came back. Ronorowski can come back, you know? There's no such thing as never in pro wrestling. What's the story behind your eye makeup? For that match, or just in general? In general.

I kind of like, I don't know. I, this sounds, this sounds so like brush off, but I don't really care. So I would legitimately sit in the chair and I think the makeup team had fun with me because I'd be like, I don't know, do something. Do something cool. It started with like, let's do something a little cooler because it's a paper view. I'm wearing these colors. So they got a little crazier and I think I just let them, I let them go. You know what I mean?

I don't know. I just let them have fun. They're artists. They get, you know, they get, you know, they get totally. what to do all the time imagine. So I was just like, just do it. That's it? No real story.

Wow. There's some story behind like some of the gears that I would wear, the color schemes. I'm a big like Warhammer 40K fans. So specifically the story with Rhonda. When we won the NXT tag titles, so we're doing like a merging of the titles match, I wore the colors of the Legion called the Sons of Horus. The Sons of Horace in Warhammer 40K unit, this is going to get real nerdy.

So you're going to fast forward to this. The Sons of Horace in 40K lore unified the empire of man. It's like men went out into space and whatever. It's real nerdy. I'm still with you, though. So Sons of Horace in 40K lore, The Emperor of Mankind comes to Horus and says, hey, your Legion, the Sons of Horace, you're so cool. No, I messed that up.

They were called the Luna Wolves. The leader of Luna Woolz was named Horace. So the emperor goes to Horace and says, you're so, you're awesome. Why don't you name your Legion after you, the Sons of Horace? And he's like, no, I can't, I can't. And finally he agrees. so they're the Sons of Horus. As the sons of Horus are marching along the galaxy for the emperor,

this demon gets in his ear and he's like, you're doing all the work for the emperor, don't you think that's kind of messed up? The emperor is taking all the credit. That's really messed up. Like, you should be the real emperor. So I wore Sons of Horace when I turned on Ronda, because the sons of Horace turned on the emperor.

And then they, after the Sons of Horace got fully infected by the demons of chaos, they turn into the Black Legion, and they're fully fighting against the Emperor. And so the match I have, SummerSlam, I'm wearing Black Legion colors. So, like, this was like real deep cut nerd. Well, all those fans are going to be like, I knew it. I knew it. Yeah. Actually, I had people, like, write up these long Twitter threads of like,

look at this. She was telling us all along. Oh. I'm kicking myself for not bringing a pack of card, the deck of cards. I know. This is why you're called the Queen of Spades, right? Yeah. Because you can do card tricks.

You're a bit of a magician. More than a submission magician. What could you have, would you have been able to guess a card? Maybe I guess just talk about it because we don't have cards. I like doing sleight of hand, card magic. And I'm no Nigel McGuinness, by the way. He's very, very good. I'm not as good as him, admittedly.

But we did talk, like shop. Like, in the same way that wrestlers will talk inside about wrestling and use insider words and stuff, there's that in magic. I mean, both carnies, right? Both from the same business, which is funny. But we would talk shop like that. But, yeah, I can do, you know, make your card appear in places you didn't know it was going to be. Oh, man. Next time, okay?

All right, all right. I don't know why I was thinking about it. I usually carry a deck of cards. That's a dumb thing. Every magician does, right? That's crazy. And actually, on my Instagram, so when I was traveling with WWE,

every week on my Instagram subscribers, I would do like, here's my outfit today. I'm wearing this, wearing these shoes, da-da-da-da. And here's the deck of cards I had. Like, I collect designer decks of cards. And so I would always feature what deck of cards I was holding that week. Oh, man. Yeah, I've done a little bit on camera at WWE, too.

Well, next time. Yeah. Next time. That means there has to be a next time. There has to be. Maybe when you're a full-time WWE coach or something. Oh, whoa, don't jinx it. Sounds like this might happen.

I don't know. Maybe I get super over doing this indie thing, and I'm like the next Cody Rhodes, you know? Maybe you go back to MMA. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. That's a funny question. I think I would do

like jujitsu submission wrestling again. Fighting is a sport in which I think I keep up here but a millisecond or two slower means a big difference in the MMA world. That is a young person's sport and as much as I could handle myself in a street altercation or coach

or grappling-wise, I still I teach jujitsu and catch wrestling at a school in Orlando. And I coach sometimes at tournaments when I can go. As much as I can keep up there, I just don't know that I physically would be able to keep up with like a young and hungry. You know? Did you know when you fought Amanda Nunes that she was incredible? Like she's one of the greatest of all time.

No, you know what's... She is one of the greatest of all time, for sure. There was a promotion called Invicta. There is still a promotion called Invicta. Before the UFC had women, Invicta was like the place for girls, the top place. So I main evented an Invicta card one time, and Amanda Nunes was on the undercard. And she was so green. And I remember watching her and being, and she got beat by a girl that I had beat previous.

And so I remember being like, oh, yeah, she's got some holes. She's open to this, you know. I remember standing out to me. But I, by no means, was like, oh, she's the next, she's like, wow, you know. And so when I fought her, it was very much that like, oh, this girl, yeah, I remember her. I remember seeing her. She's open to this and this, yeah. Didn't think.

And even when she beat me, that was when I tore my ACL. So all that is like part of this, the WrestleMania thing. Oh, yeah. Even when she beat me, it wasn't like, holy crap, she's unstoppable. This is crazy. She's the greatest of all the time. And you look at her now and it's like, ma'am, she's pretty incredible. We're sure.

Yeah, one of the best to do it. Thank you so much for coming in here. Yeah, thanks for having me. Of course. I feel like it was long winded. No, it was great. I love the stories. Yeah.

I'm going to ask you the question. I ask everybody at the end because gratitude's so huge for me and a big part of my life. What are three things in your life? right now, Shannon, that you're grateful for. Oh, man. I am three things I'm grateful for. So for sure, I'm going to have to, just so that I can get three things in,

I'm going to have to say my family and my loved ones, just that I am blessed to have like a good family unit and very supportive and loving people and relationships around me. So there's that. I'm thankful that I'm very grateful for

like the opportunities that WWE has given me. And I don't mean in such that like, yes, the guest coaching and all that. But just the even after being released, the equity that I'm able to roll with

just being a part of of WWE has been a very big blessing, especially this time in my life. And then I want to say, I'm, God, this sounds so corny. But I'm really grateful that my parents instilled in me

from a very young age, that if you just put your nose in the dirt and work hard, that stuff will happen. Because the truth is, I did not plan my life to go this way. I did not grow up thinking, I'm going to be a pro wrestler one day. I did not get into MMA thinking, I'm going to totally pivot this into pro wrestling one day.

I didn't even get into martial arts with the thought of, I'm going to be an MMA one day. I just put my nose in the dirt and worked hard and opportunities came and I took them. And things have turned out. And I understand that that doesn't happen for everyone. And so I'm very lucky that, you know, the right mix of things happened so that my life seems to always be pretty awesome. Even during the shitty times, like, my life has always been pretty awesome. I don't think that's cheesy at all. That reminds me the quote.

I think it's Thomas Jefferson who says, I'm a great believer in luck. I find that the harder I work, the luckier I get. Yeah. That's exactly what it sounds. like you're saying. Yeah. I just, if, if that's the advice when people are like, hey, can I have one piece of advice

if I want to get into this or MMA or anything? Is you have to be willing to work as hard as you can for way longer than you think is fair. And if you can't do that, then, you know, you just to think about something else. That's a great spot to end. And great

advice, too. Thank you. Thanks for having me. The Hammer Alley podcast, An 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987.

I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.