Insight with Chris Van Vliet - So, You Want To Be A Content Creator? My Honest Thoughts About The Reality Of Actually Doing It With Travis Chappell

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

For this episode, I had the privilege of being a guest on my friend Travis Chappell's (@travischappell) podcast called "Travis Makes Friends". Travis is an incredible interviewer and since we are friends, this felt more like a conversation or a masterclass on what it takes to be a content creator in 2023. We talk about podcasting as a hobby vs. as a job, how to book great guests, the importance of taking the first step and actually getting started, the missing piece when doing a Zoom interview, why in-person is always preferred, how to find advertisers and much more! Check out Travis Makes Friends here: http://travischappell.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bleed! Oh, we've got a bit of a different one here today. Welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet, and the tables are turned for this interview. I was recently a guest on my friend Travis Chappell's podcast called Travis Makes Friends, and he's an amazing interviewer. And since we're friends, this was really just a conversation where we happen to have some

mics in front of us. Like honestly, we just sat down and started chatting and that's what you're going to hear here. There wasn't, yeah, here here. That's what you're going to hear right here. You know what I'm saying. There wasn't like a three, two, one. Okay, let's start. We were just talking and that's the episode. And I've had a lot of people reach out and ask like, what does it take to be a content creator? How can I do this? How can I book great guests? How do I get started? And this interview really covers all of that and then some. Like this actually feels like a masterclass for content creation. In fact, so much so that I think Travis and I are going to create an actual masterclass or an actual something out of this. Maybe we host a mastermind that has all of this stuff

so we can help the most amount of people possible. So keep your eyes out and your ears tuned for that. I think that's something we're going to be working on that maybe you'll see at some point this summer. All right. So I hope you enjoy this. If you do, please take a screenshot. That'd be awesome. Share it out on social media. That would also be awesome. Tag us. That would be even more awesome. He's at Travis Chapel. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. Also, make sure to check out Travis's podcast. It's called Travis Makes Friends. You can hear it wherever you're listening to this right now. He's had some amazing conversations with people like Shaquille O'Neal, Rob Deer, Bernard Hopkins, Brian Callan, and so many others.

But for now, I hope you get a ton of value from this conversation with me and Travis Chappell. Enjoy it. So I've interviewed all of the business people in the business world. Chris has interviewed literally everybody else. I was talking to actors, comedians, and directors, and some pro wrestlers, some athletes. It's like, everybody has an amazing story. Sure. I want to talk to everybody.

I was trying to piece it. How did we get connected originally? I reached out to you on June 7th, 2021 to have you on my show. Okay. That's wild. That's a while ago. Yeah. Wow.

We're almost two years. Yeah. And it was a fascinating interview because I was so interested in that you would really branded yourself as you were the podcast guy. Like you were like, you want to grow a podcast. There was a formula to doing this. And here's how you do it. Right.

Right. So I wanted to have you on to speak about like, This is how podcast growth actually works. Sure. Yeah. Now I remember that. Yeah. That goes out.

And it was more importantly, it was how to make money from podcasting. I think you had an ad that was talking about like making money from podcasts. Yes. Basically sick of doing this for free. That was it. And I was making money from podcasting, but I knew a lot of my listeners were trying to start podcasts. Yeah. And trying to make money from it.

I'm like, there'll be some real value here. Yeah. I think that's how I also like reconnected with Matt Barnes yeah first text was June of 21 that's fine that was how I reconnected with Matt Barnes too was from that ad

from when we were running ads on that because we had connected at one of the masterminds I'm in they just brought him out because they brought out like several NBA players or whatever so we like met very briefly like he was playing one on one with a bunch of people and I played one-on-one

with him and then I tagged them in a story of me scoring because I was like I scored on NBA player, you know? And he replied or something, and I was like, oh, that's cool. And then didn't hear anything back from him for a long time. And then he randomly like followed me on Instagram and then DM'd me and was like, hey, man,

I want to talk about like, you know, growing podcasts, essentially. So I was like, I was talking about that was somebody recently about the value of advertising, you know, It's just like it's not always directly for the thing that you're advertising because it's like neither you nor Matt went into my sales page and bought my $1,000 podcast course. You know what I mean? But like what that's led to is worth so much more than a thousand bucks. You know, and him directly, he ended up investing in guestio too. So it was like, there's a lot of value here to just like getting your name out more. And getting your face in front of people. Right. That's why when I see people online that are posting six TikToks a day or six Instagram reels a day, I'm like, like you know what you're doing yeah you know uh free it's out there you know uh sean cannell yes so he was over recently we did an episode and we're talking about that on youtube and there was a guy that he brought up eric remember the YouTuber that he brought up that was like he had like he had like 10,000 subs 12,000 subs like it wasn't a lot yeah yeah i wanted to give him a shout out but um

he he was he was getting like what like 10 million views a month month or something. No, no, no, no, no, no. It wasn't that many. It was like a million, though. I want to say it was seven figure views, but he was posting like five times a day on YouTube, every day, you know, so, yeah, they were just like, they were not great quality. It was just a volume play. And it was the first time I looked at YouTube and went like, it's not even about the subscribers. It's, YouTube doesn't pay you for your subscriber, your subscriber account. Yeah. They pay you for views. You know, it's like, that's literally the next week is when we started the clips channel and started doing daily posts on the clips channel.

You're crossing it with that. We have so much content with so many amazing people. It's all extremely valuable. Why would we not just cut it up and put it on YouTube? And if, like, you know, if we're sitting here at 1,200 subscribers in a year from now, we're sitting at 1,200 subscribers. But if we're putting out daily content and it's good, you know what I mean? Like, the view count's going to go up.

You're not going to be stuck at 1,200 subscribers if you just keep throwing that spaghetti at the wall. Yeah. You think that's the move? It's just like volume? I think that people like Ryan Panetta are doing it right. Yeah. Or it's just like keep putting stuff out.

And if you're giving value in every single video. Right. Because you can't just put stuff out just for the sake of putting it out. There has to be something there that's worth sharing. Why are people following type of the thing? Because you never like, well, no, I take that back. You did pick a niche. You went like wrestling, right?

Because you came directly from red carpet hosting. But I was always doing some wrestling interviews. Okay. It was just like I would do a celebrity. interview and then the wrestling fans would go, what the heck? Like, I didn't know this person was in WWE, ha, ha, ha. Yeah. And then I would do a wrestling interview and then the people that had come for all those celebrity interviews were like, who's this? Yeah, exactly. So it really just came down to, I love talking to people. You know, I love having interesting conversations with interesting people. Right.

And when you work as an entertainment reporter and TV host, you get to talk to everybody. Yeah. Like I was talking to actors and comedians and directors and some pro wrestlers, some athletes. It's like everybody has an amazing story. Sure. I want to talk to everybody. But with the access I had to wrestling before there was as many podcasts as there are now, a lot of podcasts now and a lot of YouTube channels now. But when I was really starting this in like 2011, 2012, when I was doing these pro wrestling

interviews, nobody else had this access. So I was just like, I'm going to take it and run with it. Sure. Yeah. Did that, do you feel like that chained you to a certain industry for a period of time? where you maybe didn't like it as much or felt like you were almost like contained to a bubble?

It's interesting now, like I just posted an interview with Gerard Butler from the other day. Okay. Or I interviewed Ron Howard last month, Margot Robbie last month. It's so interesting because there's so many people that just know me for the wrestling interviews.

Yeah. And I get it. You know, those interviews have got millions and millions of views on my YouTube channel. I'm super grateful for that. And that's such a specific audience, right? Like the wrestling fans, like,

I'm a wrestling fan. Absolutely. Yeah. And they'll be like, oh my God, my man, CVV's doing big things. He got an interview with Margo-Robie. It's like, well, actually, that's my third interview with him. But thank you. Yeah, right, right.

It's just amazing when, like, I'll post an old photo of like me with Stephen Spielberg or something. Yeah. And people are like, I can't believe you got, you know, can't believe these things are happening for you. It's like, no, no, this is what I've always done. Yeah. It's just, I took that niche. I kind of saw some white space there that nobody else was doing it. Yeah.

And I just kind of ran with it. Because up until that point, of course actors are going to be promoting their movies. Of course, directors are promoting their movies. Comedians are promoting their tours. Athletes are promoting their books or whatever it happens to be. It really took a very specific type of person to have an in-depth interview with pro wrestlers back then. Because for the most part... That makes a lot of sense.

For the most part, they're going to the local morning show. Just simply promote that Raw or Smackdown. They got three minutes. Exactly. Yeah. And a lot of times they would be like, so we've got John Kenna here. I hear we can't see you. Anyway, all right?

I would like get someone like an early one like Jeff Hardy. Yeah. And I would be like, I used to do a swan ton bomb in the year 2000 onto my friends and be like, no way, man. That's like immediately you connect. Sure. Yeah. So I had this ability from like being a wrestling fan for,

most of my life. Yeah, yeah, right. Of being able to connect with massive stars in the pro wrestling space that like when I would bring in these people into the TV station, my boss was like, hey, Chris, we gotta cool it on the wrestlers

for a little while. Interesting. Nobody knows who this person is outside of wrestling fans. Yeah, right. Is that what kind of prompted you to do your own thing? It was more of just like the wrestling was really growing. And I had a tremendous amount of access in 2018 and into 2019. It

was a really exciting time in pro wrestling with the advent of AEW coming in as a competitor. WW hadn't had a real competitor that was on cable television for 20 years since WCW got bought by WWE in 2001. So like this hadn't happened. Yeah. Yeah. So it was just like I had a lot of real momentum that was happening. And any of my wrestling interviews were getting hundreds of thousands of views on my YouTube channel. So it was just kind of like, all right, I saw that this was starting to happen.

I also saw that like I was getting a lot more opportunities and call it new media with like the influencer space. Yeah. And this wasn't, I wasn't allowed to do a lot of that stuff with my TV job. And I was just like, how many more opportunities am I leaving on the table? Because of this really great job that I have in TV and I'm super grateful for this job. But how many other opportunities am I leaving on the table? Totally. And I just started to kind of weigh them out and went, if I'm all.

getting this many subscribers, this many views on this content that I'm doing in my spare time. Right. What would happen if I put a little bit more effort? To it full time, right. And that was really where it began. What year was that? 2019. Oh, wow.

So I was very recent then. And it was almost like I saw the writing on the wall because the guy who ended up taking my job, he was loving it. And then the world shut down and the show that we were both on, he is still on, kind of had to be paused because, you know, who wants to hear about entertainment news when who knows what's going on in the world right now. Right.

So it was almost like I was, without even knowing it, I picked a great time to get out. Because that wouldn't have been as fun. That's pretty wild that like, I mean, you got started so early though, if you're talking about 2011, 2012,

that like the station, I feel like now, my point is, I feel like now, if you're working at a TV station and they're providing a lot of these opportunities where you're using kind of like the force of media to be able to land interviews of this person, this person.

And you're just kind of privately putting them on a YouTube channel. Like now, yeah, now they would be like, yeah, we own that and you. In 2007, I was working on a show called 969 for MTV2 in Canada. Okay. And we were doing massive celebrity interviews, massive musician interviews. And this was like very early in the YouTube days.

And I was like, man, I did these interviews. I'm really proud of that unless you happen to be watching that channel, that exact time on that exact day, you never would have saw my interviews with these people. And I'm like, that kind of sucks because I'm pretty proud of it. Right. So I was ripping these interviews from our website. So they would put up the interviews on our website and like a not great quality. Sure. I would rip because nothing was good quality back then. Exactly. I was ripping them from there. And I put them on this kind of like, I put them on a YouTube, like a burner YouTube account that still exists to this day with like a terrible username. But I would put them on there because I'm like, I just

want other fans of this band to see this conversation where like I got this little nugget. And I remember my co-host being like, hey, I'm also doing that thing on this other burner account. I'm like, yes, like let's get our stuff out there. And it was the idea of like we just wanted it to be seen by people. This was before you could monetize things. YouTube. It was just the idea of like, I just wanted more people to see this. Yeah. Because that old school model of broadcasting is so funny that unless you are, number one, turn on the TV. Number two, tune it to this channel. Right. Number three, you have to be watching that show at that time. At the time. Right. Exactly. Whereas now, if you want to go down a rabbit hole on YouTube and watch

Food Fighters just playing, learn to fly for the next 24 hours, you can. Right. That didn't really exist back. it's wild that we're even saying the words back then. This was 10 years ago. You know what I mean? Like that's not that. That's what gets me excited about the future of like podcasting or YouTube because, you know, obviously we help a lot of people start podcasts and do what you and I do. And one of the biggest questions I get still is like, isn't it too saturated?

Isn't it like there's just there's too many out there. Right. It's like, well, no. Like look at the evolution of television. You know, when television first came on, there was like, what, four channels? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, there was, the, the buried entry was massive.

The people that were on TV were basically as famous as the people that were on movies. Because there was 30 million televisions in the U.S. And they all got three options to choose from. It was either I watched this show tonight, this show tonight, or this show tonight, or I read or listen to the radio. You know what I mean? There wasn't social media and TikTok and Netflix and Disney. Plus and this movie and that movie and all these other libraries of TV shows from the past 40 years of production to choose from.

It was three. You get this one, this one or this one. You know, like now we're at that stage, but in a new form of media that will always constantly be growing and changing over the next 20, 30, 40 years. They'll wipe out an old existing form of media. And I think that we're still very much in the early stages of this, like very, very, very. very much in the early stages of this. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of creators

that are fearful to jump in, jump into the deep end of podcasting because they think that you need to be as big as Joe Rogan or smartless or any number of those massive podcasts. And the reality is you could make a really good living on this with an audience that's a 10th or 1-100th of the size of those big shows.

Absolutely. Especially because, so in YouTube advertising, right? So YouTube essentially owns all the content that you put out there, meaning that like you're not the one going and monetizing that content, more often than not, right? Some creators do different deals where they all do organic content for people. And I understand that there's other brand deals to be had. But in terms of like sponsorship revenue,

Google basically goes, hey, we'll pay you X amount of dollars per advertising dollar that we make and they make a ton of money and ad dollars. So they pay you, depending on the niche or the type of creative, you know, creation that you're doing the type of audience that you have, you know, they pay you, what, three to $6 CPM or something like that? If you're lucky.

Yeah, sure, yeah. Whereas in podcasting, you get, you set the price, you either find an agency to work with or you go pitch sponsors yourself and you can make $25 to $45 CPM on a podcast. You got to do the work there.

You do have to go do the work. That is the difference. I remember finding out about YouTube ads sent, or it was, yeah, YouTube ad sentence. I remember finding out about that like 10 years ago. Yeah. My friend said,

oh, how much money are you making from those videos you're posting? I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean money? Tell me more. Yeah, like I said, I'm just doing it so people can like see these interviews and see this content. He goes, oh yeah, there's this thing called AdSense. If you just go in there, you click a few buttons. And once you reach $100, they'll pay you out.

I said, are you kidding me? Yeah. So I've been like this existed the whole time. Yeah. So I clicked the button and it was within like two months that I had reached that $100 threshold. I couldn't believe it. It's like free money.

Literally. So the cool thing about that is you don't have to put in any effort to find the advertisers. Right. You focus on creating and that's it. And that's a great thing. And I think that what's difficult sometimes with podcasts is you've got to sell somebody on buying that ad space. And you've got to really show some results or else they're not going to buy again. Yeah.

Whereas YouTube's just going to go, those ads didn't work for your channel? We'll just try these ads instead. Here's one of the other three. million people that are buying ads on channels like yours. Yeah. That is fair. That is fair. But the point being that you don't have to get a hundred million downloads or a hundred million YouTube views to make that type of money. I think that's really where this creator culture is really heading. You mentioned niching down. I really think that like if you have 70,000 subscribers, 7,000 followers on whatever platform it happens to be, and you are so hyper dialed into

whatever your topic is. That is so much more valuable than someone that has 700,000 subscribers. Right. Especially for the advertisers. Because you have to think of it. You have to put your mind into the perspective of an ad buyer

at one of these massive companies. If they can buy ads on Joe Rogan, if they have the ad budget to buy ads on Joe Rogan, they're just going to buy ads on Joe Rogan. If you're doing a Joe Rogan-esque podcast, that's anything about anything and you have 400 downloads,

they're not going to take the time to give you 40, to advertise in front of your audience. However, I'll give you a perfect example, dude. My buddy, Harry Duran, shout out to Harry. He's had a podcast for a while called podcast junkies, and he just interviews podcasters. So he's just, you know, big time, loves the podcast industry.

And Harry recently started a podcast about vertical farming. I don't know the title. I literally, if I'm remembering correctly, I think it's the vertical farming podcast. I think that is the name of it. So he starts this thing on vertical farming, which I didn't even know was a thing until he's telling, he's like recounting the story to me telling me like, oh yeah, yeah, I started this thing on vertical farming. I was like on what now? Like what is? I don't know what that is. You know, so apparently there's this whole like, you know, submarket or industry of people that are into this like, like farming vertically and and they build this whole little, you know, thing that there's there's always things to know about it because, you know, you have to get the plants to grow this way and, you know, you got to use this. type of whatever, humidifier or, you know, I'm talking out of my ass right now. But this entire industry that focuses around vertical farming, he starts his podcast.

His first two seasons, he secured over $70,000 in sponsorship revenue for like 24 episodes for a show that gets, if I had to guess, less than 500 downloads an episode. Like, I don't know the actual number. It's just that, like, if you think about it, again, from that, from that advertiser perspective, It's like this company clearly knows that the people who have this as a hobby are willing to spend money to buy the best equipment. It's like an audio file, right? You can buy a speaker that's $100 off of Amazon or you can buy a speaker that's $25,000 from Senheiser or something like that. And some people will do that because it's their hobby.

They love doing it that much. Vertical farming is this random space that exists where people just have money to spend on this hobby that happens to cost a good amount of money. Well, these advertisers, they need a way to get the word out about the message that they have. And they're not going to buy ads on Joe Rogan. They're not going to buy ads on Facebook. They're not going to buy ads on Google because the audiences are way too broad. It's like, how do you target somebody with a vertical farming interest on Google or Facebook? You know, Google made a little bit better because it's search-based, you know, search intent-based.

But definitely Facebook and Instagram and like some of these massive shows with huge numbers. just like, why would we waste money advertising to people who have no idea what we do and have zero interest in buying anything that we have to offer? So they're like, we have this ad budget and we want to go acquire customers, but we don't know where to spend the money. You know what I mean? So it's like Vertical Farming Podcast Harry comes over and goes, hey, I got people who are very interested in vertical farming. You know, so he secures $70,000. They fly him, this one of the CEOs of the company that's sponsoring him, flies him to Dubai to like, for like a week to speak at this

or host like a panel and be a moderator of a panel with these other vertical farming industry you know CEOs or whatever and he was like bro it was the weirdest thing I was at this conference and like people were coming up to me being like Harry you're the guy that you know was just like he was like this literal micro celebrity

in this random space of vertical farming in Dubai and got the whole thing paid for comps he was paid and he got 70,000 sponsorships from talking about vertical farming. You know what I mean? And that's exactly what you're not talking about. It's like you don't have to go to this super broad audience and become the next Joe Rogan to be able to make enough money to like stop working your shitty job at, at whatever, you know, fill in the blank.

Starbucks or the mill or the warehouse down the road unloading ice at Michaels or whatever. You know what I mean? Like there are other options where you can create these like this really cool living, doing something, talking about something. you actually give a shit about that can help connect you to more interesting people, take you across the world in different places. You know, it's just like that that's going to be the next phase. The biggest thing within that is if you treat podcasting like a hobby, it will be a hobby.

It pays you like a hobby. If you treat podcasting like a business, it will start to pay you like a business. I think there's too many people that will record one or two episodes, take a week off because life got too crazy, pick it back up in three weeks. Your audience is not going to show up when you do that. I think that you need to make the commitment to your audience that you're going to show up every Monday or every Monday and Wednesday or whatever it happens to be.

Then your audience is going to start to show up for you. And I think that that's the biggest thing. Sure, I say this all the time. The best thing about podcasting is anybody can do it. The worst thing about podcasting is anybody can do it and there's no barrier of entry. If you are going to get in, I think you need to fully commit to actually doing.

it. Yeah, right. You can't just go, man, me and my friends are funny. So let's record and do this thing. We love talking about the maple leaves. Yeah. So let's make this. The Bengals. Yeah. Let's drink beer and talk about the Bengals. Yeah. Once every four months when we all have the time to sit down. I see this in the wrestling space all the time. That's got to be proliferating in that space. Especially because like everybody has a take about anything. And I get that. I love that. Sure. That's one of the best things about the internet. Right. Just because everybody has a take doesn't mean that everybody needs to put their take out there. Right. It doesn't mean it's valuable.

Especially in the world of wrestling where there's rumors all the time. Like people will be like, this person said this thing. They must be true. Yeah. Right. It's interesting that like anybody can start it, but can you continue doing it. Totally. I think that finding your niche, that's a big thing that we always hear people talking about is like, find your niche.

Well, that's a difficult thing. But once you do find your niche, once you do find that thing that you're passionate about, it is easier now more than ever to become an expert in that thing. Like within 18 months, if you picked something today and you started a podcast, maybe you even wrote a book about it, and you started putting out like videos, like where you're talking directly to a camera about it, within 18 months and you're speaking on stages, you could be the expert or one of the experts on that thing if that was your topic and

your niche and you stuck to it. Absolutely. If you would just commit to something and do it for a while, you know, it's always the underestimation of work is what gets me, especially in podcasting specifically. And especially because we talk to a lot of business owners. So I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs that are used to like, hey, if we pull this lever, we know that we can get this much out of this thing. You know, and they're like, but, and they come to the podcast space expecting to do the same thing. And these are people who've built and sold companies that are nine figures, like people who are independently wealthy that have a ton of money, a ton of knowledge to share and valuable insights.

And they, even they can't come in and buy their way into being famous immediately. It's just going to take time and frustrates some people. But it's almost the, I was talking to Jordan Harbinger about this. It's like the great equalizer is like not every celebrity who starts a podcast is destined to be really successful with it. There's been a lot of celebrities who you think are coming into the space and just like, oh, they're going to be huge. Six months later, they fizzle out because they didn't get the results they wanted.

I think a lot of that, though, is like, who's backing it, right? Sure. And who's producing it? Is it even a good concept to begin with? Just because you have a former president hosting a podcast doesn't mean it's going to be great. Right. But we're now starting to see that when Spotify creates a podcast

and puts the machine of Spotify behind it and every time anybody's opening up their app and they're seeing that that's a new podcast, those pop-ups now. Like you open up Spotify, there's a pop-up about a podcast you've never heard of. I see what you're doing.

They've turned it into a science for sure. They know. Yeah, but even they miss a lot. You know, I was reading something recently where they like eliminated this entire like division of their content arm that was producing a bunch of new shows and they canceled all the new shows

and fired a bunch of people in that division. And it was just even then it was a realization for me there was like, even a company with basically unlimited funding and probably more data on podcasts than anybody else in the world, even they aren't going to create a show and have it. Like, they don't, it's not an exact science. They're not all home runs. Right. It's the same way when you make a television program.

Exactly. Like not every TV program gets past the pilot. Right. Not everyone gets renewed for a second season. And I think it's the same with podcasting. Totally. you take enough swings eventually you're going to hit a home run it's just that if you don't ever get started you know what I mean it's not going to just not just going to happen on accident and it's not going to happen after three episodes

I get those messages all the time of like I want to do this what's the best advice you have for me it's like just do it yeah actually start the big thing dude is the commitment yes it's a friend of mine uh eric sue um I don't know if you know Eric he's co-hosts of the marketing school podcast with Neil Patel And they do well. They get, I don't know, a million plus downloads a month or something like that. And I was reading something that he wrote out the other day. And it basically said that.

He was like, if you're doing anything in content, expect the minimum of three years before you have enough to go off of, to figure out what the next iteration is going to be. Like three years is the number. And I was like, that's even a little bit farther, like more than I typically recommend to people.

Wow, three years is a lot. But I think what he's really, talking to is people who've never done anything in content or communication or hosting or speaking or any of those things, you're developing multiple skills at once. You know what I'm saying? Like you can't just like come in and be really good at it. And if you can, you'll probably have faster results than other people because you have maybe a natural ability to, you know, be maybe more charismatic or whatever. But for most people, you're starting at the base. You're starting from from scratch on day one where it's like you don't know. You don't know.

how to be a successful podcaster or a YouTuber, but also you don't know how to interview somebody. You don't know how to ask somebody to be a guest in your show. You don't know how to communicate with that person. You don't know how to ask good questions. You don't know how to ask you how to, like, there's so many skills that you don't currently have that are preventing you from doing this.

So when you're looking at and going like, I'll give it like a couple months, you know, like I'll throw a couple episodes out there, see what happens. It's like, I'll tell you what happens. Save yourself the time. I will tell you, you know what I mean? Like, I'll predict your future right. now. It's not going to work. It is, it is the development of that skill set and craft over time,

which is why, like, we talked about this before, but that's why I think, like, you stepped into the podcast and YouTube world and you did well, and not saying, not trying to take anything away from the hard work that you had after you started, but you put in, like, a freaking decade of work before you started, hosting, asking good questions, figuring out how to elicit responses from people that get asked questions all the time. Like, that's a real, skill set. I'll tell you the thing that really is really escalated my YouTube channel was I was willing to do things that other people weren't willing to do. I was willing to drive to go do an interview. I was willing to fly and pay for my own flight, my own hotel to go do an interview. All I needed was someone to say yes. I would reach out to someone.

All I needed was them to say yes. And I go, great. Well, now I got to find my way to Phoenix. Somehow, you know, get to Las Vegas. Yep. And that was a big thing, especially before. Zoom interviews were even a thing. I hadn't done an interview virtually before the pandemic. Oh, really? Wow. One. Wow. And actually, I put a tweet out like the first week of the pandemic in March of 2020 and I said, guys, never done a virtual interview before.

What do you suggest? I had a lot of people throwing out suggestions. I ended up in a Zoom kind of be. Sure. It's kind of a place where everyone was. Yeah, flocking. Yeah, exactly. It was easy, right?

Right. But up until that point, they were all done in person. That's wild. I was driving five hours. This is one where I had a, I got a scoop with Chris Jericho. I drove five hours to do this interview. I was editing it on the way back on my laptop as my buddy was driving.

And then the laptop died. We pulled over to a service station to plug it back in to finish the export. Yeah. Like that was the type of stuff I was doing. And I think that now there's a lot of podcasters that are so conditioned to just, here's a Zoom link. Totally. Yeah, 100%.

These conversations aren't the same. I put a tweet out and I asked people, I said, if you only do a virtual interview with somebody, did you really meet them? And it was interesting seeing the responses because there were a lot of people who had only ever done virtual interviews going, yeah, of course I met them.

Yeah, we had a great conversation. And then there were a lot of other people that said, no, you didn't really truly meet them because when you do see them in person, you say to them, it's so good to finally meet you in person. It's the same thing you say every time, right? there's just something about this.

Well, dude, right before we recorded this, I'm not going to say any names, but you literally were like, hey, I just did an interview with this guy. I was like, oh, cool, who's that? And you were like, he's interviewed you. And it was like, I don't think so. And you showed me, it was like,

we definitely didn't do anything in person. Maybe we did it virtually, but that's a perfect example of that because we probably did. But I've also done like 400 virtual interviews on other podcasts. And when you combine the 500 virtual interviews I've done on my podcast.

Names get mixed up. Faces aren't as familiar. Like, it's just, there's a certain volume. It's just, I don't know. But anybody that I've interviewed with in person, I'll remember all of them. Of course. There's something that happens when you physically shake someone's hand. Yeah.

Or you give them a hug and like, I don't know, it's that exchange of energy. Right, right. And then you're able to look somebody in the eye. You don't have this delay of, you know, a Zoom window or a Riverside window. Right. But the pre and post conversation is so much better. And this leads. into other things too.

Like if you have the ability to talk to someone in person, like you said, the pre and the post interview, now you've got like, if you ever see them anywhere else, you can now be like, hey,

what's up? Right, right. And I've done interviews of people where like I'll go into their home. Same. And when you are invited into somebody's like inner sanctum of peace

where they have their family lay their head at night, just something subconscious or psychological happens where it's just like you're immediately perceived as somebody being trustworthy and somebody who you want to continue building some sort of a relationship with. So if there's ever the opportunity to do an interview in person and you are just starting your podcast and that person happens to live in another city, do whatever you can to get there. Absolutely.

Fly there, drive there, whatever you can. My first, so I'm the literal opposite of you with COVID. So what happened was I probably did. a half dozen interviews in person pre-COVID. I was doing everything virtually because that was how I got taught. It was like I actually started on Skype back before Zoom was like a, you know, massive thing. So I was doing Skype interviews, switched over to Zoom because I didn't require them have a Zoom username. That was like my, that was like revolutionary to me at the time.

It was like, you know, because I literally, I couldn't interview somebody if they didn't have a Skype account. So I had to like make them create a Skype account. So there were some people just like, I can figure it out. whatever. It was like, I've missed a interview. So Zoom came around was just like, all you do is click the link. And I was like, yes, thank you. So we're doing like hundreds of interviews that I had done virtually. And I was eventually getting the point where I was like, I want to do something on YouTube. But I don't like the virtual interview on YouTube. It's hard. And I know that they get views. Some of them get views. But like, for me, it's difficult to do something if I know that I would not

be a consumer of the thing that I'm doing. And I never watched a Zoom interview before. Like the whole thing. Clips, sure, but never watched a whole Zoom interview before. I was like, I'm not doing that. So let's do them all in person. So we literally built a new show. It was called World Class. There's still clips of it up on YouTube. And we were like commitment to do all interviews in person.

We batched like four weeks of interviews. We had like another eight or nine on the schedule. And we launched like March 7th, 2020. And a week later, everything shut down. We ended up shutting down the whole show because I was like, I'm not just going to do another virtual interview show on top of my current virtual interview show. The whole purpose was to do this for YouTube. And then it delayed obviously a ton of our content.

And it got to the point where what you're talking about before, where I was just releasing content for the sake of releasing content. And it just became like a drag on me. It was a, it was zapping my energy instead of giving me energy, which is what I wasn't used to. You know, the show numbers started going down. Listenership started going down. Revenue started going down.

It was just like, what am I doing this for? And we kind of had this kind of come to Jesus moment where. it was like, well, we either need to do this and do it to how I want to do it, even though it's going to require me to do a lot of things that are going to make me even busier than I already am, or we need to shut it down because I'm sick of this like halfway point where I just feel like this is crippling me. And as you know, obviously, we ended up doing the whole rebrand and, you know, relaunch. And here we are. And now we're sitting down in person. And we're about to film this whole thing tonight and we're doubling down on that stuff. But it was because I knew that

I knew that we couldn't continue what we were doing currently, but I also know that in the future, it's still extremely valuable to continue building on these relationships and keep doing what I had been doing. Like, I had already experienced how awesome it was to be in that, like, flow of energy

where you're creating something and people are actually enjoying it. And there's like, not much better than that, that feeling where you're like, you're putting something out into the world and you work really hard to do it and people are receiving it well and going like, I really enjoyed that.

Or, hey, that was really helpful. Or, you know, this piece of that that you talked about, like I never thought about that before. You get these, you know, this feedback. You're like, wow. Yeah. This is worth it. The interesting thing is when you create, you create in a vacuum.

Yeah, totally. Here we are sitting in this place here. There's some cameras. You know, there's five of us here in total. Right. Six? I can't run. No, five.

Yeah. No, five. Five. And it's just, it's hard to, or it's easy to forget that this is going out and like other people are going to be consuming this. Right. even when I worked in television, you would be in a television studio. The cameras were all like run robotically.

There was just one person sitting back there like running joysticks. So it'd be like you, a co-host and a camera person. That is interesting. And then obviously a control room full of people, but like you weren't actually physically seeing them. Right. You kind of forget that you're creating this. You're in a vacuum. You forget that you're creating this for other people.

And it's the coolest thing when someone connects with you on the street or at a store or at a convention they say hey man I really enjoyed this thing you did with so and so and you're like oh my god that was like two years ago right you still remember that right wow and there's something really special about that yeah it definitely was the thing that kind of kept me like if I envision my ideal scenario in life it would be that where like this is the exclusive thing that I do, at least the majority of my time, is spent just creating something valuable for other people to enjoy. And it was like, when I got to that realization, it was like, well, I can't, I can't give it up then. It just means that I have to do it the way that I want to do it. And, you know, so far it's been,

it's been great. There's something to be said about the photo where your arm is around that person. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Rather than the screenshot. Well, who was it that, um, who did you interview recently when people like the whole comment section was lighting up with people being like, like this guy recorded himself asking that question, Mike Myers. I just don't understand it. I spent my whole career

interviewing everybody. And that video went viral first on Facebook Reels, then on TikTok, then on YouTube. And there were so many comments being like nice, fake interview. That's so fine. This guy's pretending to interview Mike Myers.

It's like, why do you think that they picked that one video to say that about? So he was in a studio with great professional lighting and wearing a love mic. It was being produced by Netflix. He was broding his TV show called The Pentavra. Yeah. I was in at the time, I just moved in with my now wife. Yeah.

I was in her spare bedroom with like terrible lighting in my laptop. Like I get when you put the two images next to each other. Sure. They didn't look the same. But isn't that every Zoom interview? Like somebody has a better mic or somebody has a better mic or somebody has. a better camera. And it was just my framing was a little bit tighter. It was a little bit wider. So the way that it was edited together, nice fake interview. I had so many comments from people

being like, why'd you fake this interview? And then it was getting liked on Facebook by hundreds of people. That's hilarious. So I started responding to people and going, well, here's the full interview. Yeah. And then no one would even bother to look at that. Of course not. Yeah. And like during the full interview, like Mike Myers grew up like 10 minutes from where I grew up in Canada. Oh, wow. So at the start of the interview, I'm like, hey, I grew up in Pickering. He's like, oh, Pickering, which is known for having a nuclear power plant. And he's like, were you close to

the nuclear power plant? I'm like, how could you tell? He's like, oh, you do have a bit of a glow about you. And like, the fact that we had this back and forth about this. Right. Like real banter about something that wasn't about his show. Yeah. Like, people thought that I just like took an answer that he had already given in another

interview. And then I recorded myself asking a question that might lead to that answer. Well, it's like literally the smallest amount of any due diligence or research possible would have given them the answer to the question, which is like, click on Chris's profile. Let's see what this guy's all about. Oh, there's 48 other interviews with A-list celebrities and actors and actresses and wrestlers and anybody in between. Like, maybe it's real. In the time that person took to write the comment, they could have Googled my name and Mike Myers' name and saw the interview. Right. Exactly.

So that was, look, that's just the internet. Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. Internet, like summed up right there. Totally. People coming to conclusions without knowing anything. Yeah. And I'll never understand that one. Yeah.

So those are some of the blessings about having stuff go viral as you have, you get an objective sense of what people think about you without knowing you at all. You know? Oh, there's so many mean people. Yeah. I just don't understand it. Yeah, it's weird, man. It's weird.

I just think it has so much to do with how much that person hates their life. secretly. And, you know, there's like this religion of skepticism that's popped up because people just can't believe that other people are living a version of life that they would kill to live. You know what I mean? So they have to, in their mind, justify why they don't have that life.

You know, and so it leads them to just continue down the criticism path. Because that's the best way that I can handle it. Because the reels on there have the potential of really go viral. the comments. So your stuff's being shown to people have no idea who you are. And it's just amazing. Just the, I've stopped looking. I've just now post on Facebook and just don't look back. Right. On Instagram, I'll like go back and forth with people and like. Sure, sure. But at Facebook, I've just given up reading those comments because they're so mean. Buying ads? People get so upset, dude. Like, it's pretty wild. And it blows my mind. It's like, you know that advertising is all over the place. Like,

we see like, I forget the number. It's an astounding number. Like 12,000 advertisements a day is what the average American sees anymore. It's an astounding number. I forget the actual number. We'll have to look it up. But it's like, you realize that everybody does this, right? Like, you still buy Nike's, I assume?

Like, you still have, you know what I mean? Like you bought tickets to the, you know, last whatever Laker game or whatever. Like everybody advertises. Why are you so upset? They get, like, triggered by the fact that, like, how dare I, you know, buy this ad to put in front of them. It's like, get this off of my feed. It's like, what?

So you're going to comment on it? That only tells Facebook that you like it. And it's just going to show you my next ad and make you doubly pissed off. Like, I don't understand what, like, why does it matter? Just, you know, you know how to get it off your feed? Yeah, that's it. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. soccer podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by.

I'm my co-host, Megan Clenembert. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claim. And they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures.

We're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Hencoe. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Which social media platform do you think has the meanest comments? Oh, Facebook. Facebook. Yeah, yeah. especially in terms of ads.

Although, to be fair, to be fair, you're really big on YouTube. I've not really done anything on YouTube. So I can't speak to YouTube's crowd. I would say on YouTube, people are pretty kind because for the most part, your stuff is being shown to your people, to your subscribers. They're there to consume that content. And YouTube's pretty good about like going, oh, you like this, then you're going to like this. They've dialed in their algorithm really well.

Sure. Whereas there's stuff on Facebook where I'm like, why am I being shown this? Yeah, right, right. Although it's like if I'm, if I'm being shown something, like, because I'm a creator, if I'm being shown something and I'm entertained enough by it that I'm going to watch it like three quarters of the way through, I will leave that person alike now. Because I'm like, I liked it enough that I watched this almost all the way through. Like, good job.

Courtesy like, yeah. Here you go. I'll even throw you a comment. Keep going. Yeah. It's amazing to me how few people do that. Like, you don't have to follow me. You don't have to leave a comment.

But if you've liked the. the video enough to watch that much, you clearly like the definition of the like button. Yeah, you clearly liked it. Exactly. Why not just throw someone alike? Right. Exactly. And I just don't understand that. Yeah. It's again, dude, it's like the, it's the, it's the average factor, you know? Everybody's just, they, they, they can't cope with the fact that like, you were sitting there talking to Margot Robbie. So, like, I'll watch the clip. I can't believe I'm saying. I'm talking to Margo Robbie. I can't believe I'm saying. I can't believe you're sitting there talking to Margo. I can't believe you're saying they're talking to Margo.

Her smile is like so radiant. Yeah. You're like, on the screen it is. So like in real life it's got to be like, oh my gosh, this is Margot Robbie. She has this like magnetic energy about her. Yeah. Or you're just like drawn into it. And she's a fantastic actress.

Unbelievable. Yeah. It's ridiculous. I did an interview with Kate Beck & Sale who also has this magnetic personality. She's beautiful, fantastic actress. but she is so engaging in the way that she speaks to you. Yeah. That you leave the room going,

do I have a chance with Kate Beck and stuff? And the answer is 1,000% no. But she's so good at bringing you into the conversation and being interested in what you're saying and then giving great witty answers that you're like, that went really well. Did you feel that way about Anna Hathaway when you did that interview with her?

No. No, no. Not at all. Ian Hathaway is great. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, we had talked, we had a really interesting interview about one day, which was that movie where she actually speaks

with a British accent in that movie. Okay. Yeah. And she told me this great answer about, like, I'd gotten to the point where I was, like, dreaming in the accent. Oh. Oh, that's fascinating.

Wow. But I had to ask her something about the Dark Night Rises because these photos of hers Catwoman had just come out. Okay. I just didn't plan out the question. And I'm okay. Like, I'm, so to back this up. Yeah.

I'm into fitness. I'm fascinated by when people can gain or lose weight for a role. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And you always see those headlines, whether it's Chris Hemsworth or whether it's... Joaquin Phoenix, losing weight for Joker. Sure.

Or like Bridget Jones Diary, like, there's always these stories out there. So I was asking this from like a fitness perspective of like, what's your workout routine look like? Dial this in for me. Right. Didn't ask it in a very good way. So when I left that,

I was just going like, I think I kind of kind of, kind of offended her. And she was very kind and made a great joke about it. Yeah, yeah. It seemed like she was like, yeah, it seemed like she was okay with it. It's funny when that gets posted. That gets shared all the time. That happened 12 years ago, by the way. Yeah. I just got tagged in that yesterday. Really? I was like, it's 20, 23 and I'm bringing this back and it's like a million views. Like, here we are 12 years later. And it's funny that when someone like that posts it, all the dudes in the comments are like, oh my God, I would have melted like unbelievable.

Right. When it's posted in like one of those compilations of like, like the 15 times actors shut down reporters. Yeah, right. Then there's like, what a stupid question. And how the way he slams reporter for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, thanks for only showing like half of that. Yeah, right.

But anyway. Yeah, right. I just thought like, I could have phrased that so much better. That wouldn't have been as fun and playful. I probably wouldn't have gone viral. Not at all. Yeah, nobody would even know about it. Right.

And like you said, like she seemed to be totally fine with it. And I was just like, she laughed about it. She was making jokes about it. Years later, it was actually amazing. It was her and Robert De Niro for that movie The Intern next to each other. That's fantastic. It's not like I walked in and she went,

oh, the forward young man. Right, right. Super kind. Yeah. Does she remember you at all or recognize you at all? Like, she remembered me, but I don't know if you remember me from like what. Do you feel like you have that type of relationship

with a lot of people you interview now where it's like I've interviewed this person five times in the last eight years. So like they actually recognize me now. I think with some people for sure. Yeah. Like especially if you've done something within those four or five minutes to build rapport. Sure.

Because they're quick interviews. Yeah. How do you do that? I try to ask an interesting question or something that they've never been asked before. Try to do whatever you can to ingratiate yourself to them. Yeah. Especially because it's such a short period of time. You have five minutes at a press junket where they're doing 40 interviews in a day and a half or whatever.

Right. And they're doing weeks of press. You know, they're doing a whole bunch here in L.A. And then maybe they're doing some in New York. and then they're doing something in London. Yeah. You're just trying to do something. Something to stand out from the hundreds of other people

that are going to ask them questions in the next few weeks. But when you're doing interviews with like, Kevin Hart had a string of movies where he was doing like three movies a year. So there would be points where like, I remember a time in Chicago when I interviewed Kevin Hart and like I was walking into the gym as he was walking out of the gym.

And he was like, oh, hey man, he gave me a big hug. Oh, nice. Those are cool moments. Yeah, no kidding. Or like the rock's been super kind to me. But then there's other people where you just, you weren't able to build that rapport. Or maybe your last interview with them was eight years ago. And you can say to them like, oh, it's good to see you again.

And they're going, yeah, you too. Yeah. They have no clue. Yeah, totally, guy. Like, I interviewed Miles Teller for Spiderhead. Okay. And it was off, you know, the massive success of Top Gun Maverick, obviously. And I've interviewed him a few times.

And at the end of the interview, I just said, thank you for always being. so kind. And he's like, oh, yeah, of course. Like, yeah, no problem. But it was cool that like there was that moment of like, yeah, oh, I know this person. I can trust this person. How long are you prepping for a five minute interview? So usually you see the film. Actually, you always see the film. So you always see the film. So like, if you're asking someone, if you're interviewing someone for the movie, you're going to ask something that's related to the film in some sort of way. Or maybe you can tie the film into something in their career. Early life. or whatever. But I spend hours.

Like there's that phrase, I don't know who it's from, that saying of like, if you give me a, you know, if I'm preparing for like a five-minute speech, I'm going to take like weeks to do it. Yeah, yeah. If you need me to talk for an hour right now, I can just do it.

Right. If I have eight hours to cut down a tree, I'll spend the first six sharpening the axe or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So I spend hours doing it because I want something that's going to be, A, entertaining, be relevant, but see and most importantly memorable. Yeah.

So am I asking them about a recent role that they are rumored to be playing? Am I asking them about their workout routine there? Am I tying this character into an iconic character they played years ago? Sometimes it's a person I've always wanted to interview like Sylvester Stallone. I'm like, man, I've got to ask a rocky question here in some sort of way. Right. Even if it doesn't tie into this film, I've got to do that. Right.

or like my favorite movie of all time is back to the future. Okay. I've got Robert Zemeckis, the director, Back to the Future, sitting right here. Like, I have to ask him a back to the future question. So I think it comes down a lot for like, for me of like, who's the person? What have they done in their career? How can we somehow tie that all in to this project right now? Is there a difference in preparation for you when you're doing, because you also do a lot of long form content, right?

Is there a difference for you in prep when you're doing a five-minute press junk interview versus like I have an hour with this person. I feel like I put so much more time and prep into the shorter interview. That makes sense. Honestly, it does. It makes a lot of sense because there's more grace

if you have them for an hour, right? And you can't expand on topics when you've got them for four or five minutes. Yeah, your questions are always, I think it was on my producer Eric that there was like Chris always asked really good, succinct, just stand alone outside of context they can exist questions.

And that's not a skill that I've had to really develop a lot. because I don't get the same opportunities to do the five minute kind of press interviews. And to be fair, it's a totally different skill set to be able to do an effective five minute, like effective memorable, all those things you just mentioned, like in five minutes. That's tough, dude. And it's also to try to ask your questions in a way that it's not self-serving and also ask your questions in a way that your question doesn't take up a minute of this time.

I remember when I first started doing press junkets and I would see these other reporters they would like... Giving 90 seconds of context. And it's like, dude, no. That was a big thing I realized kind of early on with my YouTube channel is people weren't showing up to see me. Right.

Maybe now they're showing up because of the reputation that I've built with some of these interviews. But early on, I get that you're not coming to my channel to see me. You're coming to see Robert Pattinson or George Clooney

or Morgan Freeman or whoever these people happen to be. Yeah. So I was like, I'm going to try to get the best out of them by giving them as many opportunities to show. You give their fans an opportunity to see them in a different light. Yes. And fans love that.

Especially when it was like the real like mega blockbusters. Like I got to do interviews for The Hunger Games. Super grateful to do interviews for Twilight when that was a big thing. Oh, wow. If Robert Pattinson or Kristen Stewart or Taylor Lawner said, anything that they'd never said before in another interview, boom, hundreds of thousands, millions of views. So you were looking for those little things. Sure. Yeah. What advice do you give to somebody now? Like somebody's watching this and they're like, this sounds fun. This sounds like I would

want to do something like this. What's your advice to them? You know, starting an interview show, YouTube, podcast, TikTok, wherever they're going to post, whatever platforms they're going to really try to tackle. What's your advice to them? I think you've got to take the opportunities that are in front of you right now. And I think that aiming big is a great thing, but I don't think that you can go, man, this podcast is only going to work if I can interview these NBA players or these NHL players or this actor or whatever. Like take the opportunities that are in front of you. I'll speak specifically to the wrestling niche. I think there's a lot of people that go, well, man, WW won't write back to my emails. AEW won't give me any interviews.

Impact wrestling won't do any either. It's like, I bet there's a wrestling school near where you live or I bet there's an independent wrestling promotion that runs. in and around where you live, go there. Talk to the promoter. Ask if you could interview some of the people that wrestle on their show. Start there and then get better from there. And I think that you need to start with what's in front of you right now

and build from that because you're going to get better with every single one of these that you do. I mean, you're what, 800 episodes in? Yeah. You're still getting better every single time. Yeah. And, like, if you look at the, the sampling of guests that we're bringing on in the first 50 episodes of the rebrand, in terms of quality, it's, like, basically better than the other 800 that we did. You know what I mean?

Like, it's every, it's, we'll always get better if you decide to get better. Yeah. You know, it's just the opportunity, like, people expect opportunities to come and sit and just to be, like, handed, like, handed them and wrapped in a present. And all they got to do is open it and go, like, yeah. opportunity abounds, you know what I mean? It's just like opportunities come to those who are most prepared, which is why the phrase, you know, luck is nothing but preparation meaning opportunity. I think luck is a mixture of everybody's success.

But it's just the more at-bats you have, the more likely you are to hit a home run. And if you never step up to the plate, you will never hit a home run. And if you only take three swings, odds are one of them will not be a home run. You know what I mean? Like every time you do it, you get a little bit better. You adjust your footing. you take a bigger swing or you know that if you stand this way, you tend to get better leverage on the ball.

Like that's going to come after swing 75 or after swing 143. You know what I mean? Like at some point, assuming you remain consistent and you keep working hard at it, you're going to smack that thing out of the park. You know what I mean? And it's important to lead with value. Yes. Like you might not have a lot of value if you're just starting out right now.

Absolutely. But if you are going to like my example, if you're going to a local independent wrestling show, the value for those people is just being able to tell their story. Right. I'm blown away by how many people will send podcast pitches

and not even link to their podcast in the email. That blows my mind. So you're telling me, I now have to remember the name of your podcast and then type it into it. You're giving me homework. Yeah. Right. That, I mean, it's one of the simplest things.

Right. So I think it's also, find somebody who's doing it in your space that's absolutely crushing it. Yeah. And take a little bit from them. And then take a little bit from somebody else. And then take a little bit from somebody else and mash it together and do your own thing.

Don't be a carbon copy of any of those other shows. Right. But figure out what works for them and how you can put your own spin on it. I saw people, bro, your network will increase in direct proportion to the amount of value that you can add to others. And to speak to your point in saying that like start with what you have, it will get better later. So like when I was first starting my show, I was a door-to-door sales guy and I was just starting a podcast because I wanted to learn how to make money online.

That was basically my entire premise. It was like, I'm just a dude who knocks on doors for a living and sells alarms. I think it was alarms at the time. And so I started the podcast. It was like, I don't know anything about what I'm doing. How do I go connect with these people? Like I figured out enough to know that if I went and got around people who were really successful at it, they could probably teach me a few things and help me avoid some obstacles or at least.

shave some time off of my learning curve. So I was like, how do I go get in touch these people? So I joined this mastermind. I hired a coach and I flew down to Puerto Rico of now a friend of mine who's one of my first mentors was John Lee Dumas who had a very successful podcast. So if I go get around this guy, you know, like he'll be able to help show me the way or show me the path. And I remember at the time, the way that I was able to like differentiate myself and build

like a real friendship with him was volunteering an entire weekend of my time to go to this event that he was going to be at. This is after I've already paid him money, by the way. So like I paid money to go learn from him. And then while I was there, I was looking for another opportunity to be like, how can I like, how can I, I know I paid him money to be here, but lots of people have paid money to teach them things. How do I like stand out? And so I, I volunteered three days of my time, a full weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday to go to this event and stand at his booth for eight hours a day and sell his journals. He just came out with a new journal

and got a booth at an event that he was keynoting at and that was basically like his speaking fee was just like, we'll give you a free booth and you can sell journals. So we had this guy

that was going to be working his booth and he had no sales experience and I was like, I got sales experience. You know, I do home shows for these companies. I've knocked doors for a few years.

I train people. Like, if I know anything, I know how to sell direct to people. And so I was like, he literally asked me, he was like, can you come by the booth and we have an intern

that's going to be trying to sell journal. can you just give them a few pointers? You know, and I was like, dude, I'll just work the booth for you if you want. So he was like, yeah, sure. So I worked for three full days just selling journals for him, like $40 journals at this event, enough to where like we did well enough to where he invited me to the next event that he went to. At the next event that he went to, I met all these people.

And when you're meeting people from the context of like introductions from somebody who's well known in that space being there, the connections were that much more powerful. And like you fast forward a long time. He's invested into my software company. He's like a partner in my business. He's a friend of mine. We've hung out on a bunch of occasions. My point is like at that point in time,

it was very difficult for me to add value to somebody that was on that level. I didn't have any connections to offer him. I didn't have a lot of money to offer him. I didn't have any knowledge or information that he didn't already have. Like there was not really much I could do, but I did have some time and I had a little bit of expertise in selling.

And that was a value ad that I could step like, get into the door with, which opened the door to a bunch of other potential opportunities down the road. Now, to add more value to him than that, like three full days of my time, now is like a single email connection

that I, you know, made with somebody who can do a multi-six-figure deal with him. You know what I'm saying? Like, like the value, like, the relationship is furthered because I have turned myself into somebody that's more valuable to know. Right.

You know, so like the value still is a part of the equation. It's just much, much, much, much, much easier for me to go add value to somebody anymore than it was back when I first started. But you'll never get to that point if you never start with what you currently have. You have to start where you're at with what you have. And eventually you'll build on that and get to a point where I do have a little bit of money. You know what? I do know a good amount of people.

You know what? I do have like some other things that I can offer to the world besides just ambition or drive or like the thirst for knowledge. Right. But I think that if you can start with that hustle and all it takes is one person to say yes. Right. That's how my whole,

that's what I was going to say. You're the same exact way in your world. My whole broadcasting career started because I couldn't get an internship when I graduated from college. So I scoured the internet, looked high and low for the email address

for the general manager of this tiny station about an hour from my hometown. because every other place that I had actually submitted for an internship hadn't even got back to me. I reached out to him, lied, said I was going to be in town for spring break. And he's like, well, if you're going to be here, sure, we don't usually do this, but come on by. I hadn't been to that city and like, book my travel now. Yeah, like, he was like, yeah, we don't normally do this, but like your resume is pretty impressive, which was all just volunteer work, like all just places that had said, sure, come on in.

We could use a hand. And that internship turned into me being on TV two weeks later as an intern. Wow. Which then fueled my entire career. Right. So I think it's just like, it's that whole idea of like start with what, start with what's in front of you. But the most important part of that is start. You need to start.

Right. Exactly. It's never going to just be offered. You know, you're not going to have your dream job walk through your apartment door and be like, here you go on a silver platter. for no reason at all. You know what I'm saying? People have this weird entitlement mentality behind.

My whole thing growing up is I had never had like the job offered to me like in high school. Like I was never given the part time job because my uncle worked at this place or my neighbor, you know, own this business. Never. Right. I was the person like handing out physical resumes or faxing them in and not hearing anything back. And like when I did finally get my very first part time job, which was in the fish department of a pet store at the mall, which was the best. because I love fishing. Tied this into like these aquarium fish.

I was just like, fine. Like I earned this. Right. I earned this. Whereas like my best friend was like having his feet up at some office job that his mom had got him. Right. But how much of a vote of like confidence in yourself did that give you?

So much. You know what I mean? Like the littlest step forward is like a confirmation that I, if this super tiny thing that most people would look at and go like, you got a job at a fish, like in the fish department at a pet store in a mall. Like, congrats, bro. You know what I mean? Like, no matter how small the step was, you viewed it as being like, this is an impossible

thing. I don't know where to start. I don't know how to get a job. I don't know if people will hire me. I don't know if I'm a hireable. Like, I don't know any of that stuff. To go from that to it happened is such a notch in your confidence belt that like the next thing that you're doing that you currently perceive as being not doable.

or impossible, or at least you don't have the guide or the how-to pamphlet on making it happen, you're at least like, well, I got that job at that pet store in the mall that one time, and I had no idea how to do that. I wonder if I just did what I did back then, but maybe at a higher volume, if that would work for this TV internship.

Oh, I got this internship. Oh, I'm on TV. Oh, I have this opportunity to speak to my hero. Oh, I have this opportunity to speak to 300 of my heroes. And you know what I mean? the opportunities come after you continue to like, you know, knock down the doors yourself. And then every time you get a little bit more confident. And now your confidence isn't based on like, you know, foolishness.

It's based on experience and results, which is a much more powerful form that will take you into the next phase of the career. I love to you, you know, sum that up like that. Yeah. Because people don't often see the journey. Correct. especially on social media. They're just seeing the finished product here.

And I think it's important to like point out all of the stumbles along the way. All of the people who said no or everything that led to where you are now. And that's what you're so good at in your podcast. It's what I love diving into on my podcast. It's like it doesn't just get handed to you. And it bothers me so much when someone sees someone who's successful and they go, Well, yeah, it must be nice. And then insert blank of like some sort of excuse that like, yeah, well, I couldn't do that because I don't blank.

It's like you could do it. You'll never do it with that attitude. Correct. Because you won't put the work in. Right. Exactly. And, you know, I'm not even one of those people that say that we all start off at the same thing. You know, I think that there's definitely socioeconomic backgrounds that might put you at a different starting line.

But the finish line's up to you. You know what I'm saying? like you you didn't get to choose your starting point none of us did but you do get to choose the end point you do get to choose where you end up i had somebody um actually i think it was tom bill you somebody the other day said said this and i loved it they said um when you're born you look like your parents when you die you look like your choices and it was like what a great way to sum it up it's like i'm born in the situation that i've zero control over whether it's great or whether it's horrible or somewhere in between, which most of us are in the in between point.

But I have complete control over where I end up when I'm gone. You know what I mean? And if you don't ever take that full responsibility for where you are, regardless of if it was your fault or you caused you to be there, regardless. It doesn't matter. Who made you start here? It doesn't matter. What matters is where you want to go and will you take the responsibility and put in the work to get there. And I get that there's a lot of terrible things that happen to people.

Yeah. But it's how you react to those things. How you recover from those things. Like go read a few paragraphs about Oprah's life. She shouldn't be where she's at right now with the way that her life started out. But I think it's really easy for people to just fall back on to, well, that's easy for you to say, because you didn't deal with X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, no, I get that.

But the worst thing that happened to you is the worst thing that happened to you. Worst thing that happened to me is the worst thing that happened to me. Like, there's still the worst thing. And there's people, lots and lots and lots of people, especially in America, that started off way worse than you and have become this version of themselves now. And that's the thing. If there is someone who has accomplished great things with a situation that's as bad as yours or worse than yours, there's no excuse that.

That cannot be the only thing. That is not the sole factor. You know, it's like, can it be a factor? Sure. Factor it in. But that's for what used to be. If you want to create something that you want to have, then that has to start with you in your mind right now.

Do you know Nick San Anastaso? Yeah. So, I mean, he's a perfect example. Great example. Look at the life that he's created for himself. When he has one arm and no legs, he points that out all the time. And his one arm has one, two fingers. Yeah, one finger on his one finger on his one.

all the time. Basically like if I'm a man with one arm and no legs and I can accomplish this, what can you accomplish? What lies are you telling yourself? What can you accomplish with two arms and two legs? Right. Exactly. No, it's wild, dude. That's one of the reasons why I even do the podcast. It's like, and one of the reasons why I want to do more like entertaining style things because, you know, a lot of times you have to meet people where they are. And if, and if we can kind of reach people at a point in their life where they know changes need to be made, but they're not going and seeking it out with like personal development things, but they're going to listen to the show because I interviewed their favorite comedian

and they want to get some laughs. And in that, we can uncover something about their story that makes them go like, wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know that they started there. That's crazy. I wonder if that's possible for me. That's it.

You know, it's like can you, and that's why I recommend so many people start the interview podcast. because I would not have as much insight to as many powerful stories as I've had if I weren't able to interview all these super successful people and go like, wow, you started as an immigrant to America when you were seven and you were dumpster diving

for your next meal, literally, you were getting made fun of, you didn't speak English, and now you have a $300 million company and you live in a gorgeous beach house and you have this amazing family life and it's like, you created abundance out of thin air because you decided to do it. How awesome is that?

That's something that people can do. That's like half the reason I do this. And then why I encourage so many people to start their own shows too. Ed Milet said something when I interviewed him where he pictures like you're at the end of your life. And you meet, I'm sure you've heard this story. Yeah, yeah.

You meet God, your creator, source, whatever it happens to be. And they show you the version of you that you could have been. The version of you if you had really true. you'd put all of your effort into. And then you look at the version that you are right now and you go, huh, I could have been all those things if I just tried.

That hits me so hard. I feel like that hits everybody so hard because you realize like there's not a single human on this planet that's giving 100% 100% of the time. Right. And the way he says it too, he's always like that and the worst possible scenario that I can imagine is me meeting that person and we're total strangers. And it's like, oof, that one hits hard, you know,

like, you know, obviously even if you don't believe everything that he believes, if you have a different belief system, the principle remains the same. Is this like, who could I be or who could I have been? Had I taken that risk? Had I not been afraid of embarrassment or failure? had I, you know, invested $10,000, $20,000 into bettering myself as an individual, you know what I mean? Like, could I have done that thing that I want to do?

That's what drives almost all of my decisions, man, is like I take a lot of big risks and probably more than most people would be comfortable with. But it's because of that. I look at myself when I'm 90, when I don't have the ability to change anything at that point. I am what I have created for myself when I'm 90 or whatever. 100 or if I'm lucky enough to get to those numbers. Like if that's where I am, I am who I am and I don't have the ability to change it at that point. Now I do.

I do have the ability to change it. And so when I look at some of these decisions that I make now, it's like when I'm 90, am I really going to care? Am I going to like, you know, some of these, I've invested close to $400,000 into coaching masterminds, getting to know people learning from people smarter than me in the last five years alone. Wow. But when I look at that over the course of my lifetime,

and I go like with the goals that I have for myself, am I really going to get to 90 and be like, I shouldn't have spent that 400 grand on bettering myself and learning and getting all these people in my world that can teach me how to live life on a different level. Like, it's 400 grand. By the time I'm 90 or 100, 400 grand is going to be worth like 40. You know what I mean?

Like you factor in inflation over 60 years. Like, it's not going to be that much money. Like if I can trade that money now, for time because I'm shaving years or decades off my learning curve because I got connected to the right person who gave me the right piece of advice and who coached me and mentored me to get to this certain level by this certain age that like shaved 10 years off of what I had to go through to get there like if I can do that I mean I'll do that I'll do that as often as I possibly can as often as I can afford to I'll trade that money for like getting extra time

you know what I mean I just there's a lot of people that aren't willing to invest even one dollar anything dude anything I mean you have people

reach out to you all the time too where it's like I also get we live in a time now though when like information is more readily available now than it's sure but there's something that you know you can learn a lot

from a YouTube video you can learn a ton from a podcast you can learn a lot from reading books I get all that there's something that's so next level about being mentored by somebody or being just in their circle Yep. It's the accountability and the network to me. It's like when I invest money with somebody who I have utmost respect for, I'm much more likely to do the work that they tell me to do. Because when I come to our next coaching session or I come to our next meeting and they're like, hey, did you get that thing done that you said you were going to do? And I didn't do it. I feel like a piece of shit. You know, like it holds me at the highest level of accountability because it's somebody who I respect that's looking at me and going like, you said you were going to do this, did you? It's like,

Oh, no. But I have a really good excuse. You know, it's like, do you? Do you have a good excuse? You know what I mean? You either have results or you have excuses. It's exactly right. You're a producer either way.

You either produce results or you produce excuses. Let me ask you. How long are you going to keep growing your hair? Oh, dude. So I told my wife the other day, frankly, I'm a little annoyed by it already. I don't like it as much as I like short hair. But I'm kind of pot committed at the moment, you know,

because I'd spend probably a year since I've gotten a haircut, like a real haircut. But I told my wife, as soon as I reach my weight goal, I'm going to shave my head. Shave your head. Shave your head? Shave it. What's your weight goal? 190.

And you're at what? 210. So I got 20 pounds. This could happen. This quarter is the goal, you know, by the end of March. I'm actually doing the reverse of what you're doing. I'm going to try to get around that size. Oh, you're gaining, though.

Yeah. I just want to see. Are you the type of guy that can just like eat donuts and pizza? Not anymore. I do like pizza alone. I've been eating pretty clean. I started this like mid-December and I hired a trainer and have a whole meal plan. I packed a lot of meals with me on this trip.

Yeah. Like as soon as I leave here, I'm going to go like eat some rice and ground turkey. Gotcha. So you're like being really strict right now. Yeah. With that said, though, like I'll have a pizza. Yeah. A whole pizza.

I'll have 12, 15 slices. I mean, any pizza can be a personal size of pizza. you have the right mindset. That's right. It all starts with the mind, man. That's right. I've just been increasing my calories a lot. Okay.

And I've been working out really hard with a lot of intention. Okay. I've just always been fascinated, like I said earlier, by like when like Chris Hemsworth gained all that size and mass for Thor or Camel Nongiani recently, Christian Bale going both ways. I'm fascinated by it. And I'm like, well, what am I capable of?

And I turned 40 in May. So I'm like, what could I look like at 40? And hopefully somewhere in there, there's someone who's about to turn 30. Or maybe someone who's about to turn 40. And they can go, wow, if Chris can do that at 40, I can surely do whatever it is that I want to do at 40. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to you. I want to look, I'm going to be in the best shape possible,

best shape I've ever been, best in my life at 40. And then just kind of figure things out from there. That's a great goal, dude. I'm sure you'll get there. Yeah, of course we'll get there. We'll start kind of going like this, you know, with our weight. I'm up here, you're right here. I'm 994 right now.

Okay. I've already gained 12 pounds in the last month. Wow. Dude, that's great. So I don't think that's sustainable. I can't wait to get to the point where I have my trainer going. You need to eat more. Every time I talk to somebody, they're like, you should eat less.

My trainer goes, are you eating hard? I'm like eating hard. Like, you know, I've heard training hard. Yeah, right. Are you eating hard? I'm like, I'm eating a lot. He's like, well, are you full? Like, do you ever feel hungry?

Like, I don't think so. He's like, okay, keep that up. Yeah, we'll never be hungry. Does anyone ever told you look like the wrestler Seth Rollins? No. No. Let me get my phone here. I think you could be like, you could be like Seth Rollins like stunt double.

Impersonator. Let's see. Something tells me, I would have to lose fat and gain muscle to really look like this person. I mean, he's a, he's in, He's in pretty good shape. Let me find a real... Kind of have to be.

Any of these. You scroll through there. You could be like Seth Rollins' brother. Okay. Yeah. See that, especially with the hair growing out. That's right. The hair and the beard.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Seth Rollins. I can see that. Yeah, former WWE champions, so... There we go. I just got to grow my hair for like another year and a half

to get to that way. I love that we started this interview without actually starting it. And then, yeah, it seems like we're ending it. It's like, it's like, it. All right.

I guess we'll just go. Those are the best ones, dude. It's just a conversation. You know what I mean? Well, listen, as we wrap this one up, where's people,

you know, go find you and learn more about what you're doing? Well, thank you again for just like hanging out. Yeah. I love that we have to have a mic this time.

Yeah. Right. There's so many other great conversations that no one will ever hear. Just don't get recorded, right? Exactly. Wherever you're listening to this, you can find my podcast,

Insight with Chris Van Fleet on YouTube. It's just my name. And then the CVVV Clips channel. I've seen your clips channel starting to grow. We're trying to model you, dude. We're just trying to do more about what you're doing. I would pick a much better model, but thank you. But that's, growing at a crazy rate. I remember off camera when I did the last interview with you, like a year ago. It's like, it's growing really fast. I'm like 30,000. Yeah, right. Exactly. Now it's at 154,000 a

year later. That's crazy. So, you know, 125,000 in a year. That's pretty wild. And like tens of millions of views. Yeah. It's been crazy. So anyway. That's where you can find me. Just my name at Chris VanVlis. Well, if you've been listening to the show, you obviously have heard just a few of the names that Chris has interviewed in his career. So if you are a fan of good interview content,

there's not many out there that do it better than Chris Van Fleet. So Insight with Chris Van Fleet on every platform you listen to podcasts on, as well as YouTube, go check out some of the stuff. You will not regret it. Chris, always fun to you. There we go. I feel like we packed a lot into that conversation. And it's funny there at the end,

I was talking about the CBV Clips channel. And when we recorded it, it had 154,000 subscribers, which, I mean, that's a huge number, considering it's grown so much over the last year. As I sit here and record this right now, we're already at 223,000 subscribers. So that's 70,000 subscribers since we recorded that episode. That's crazy. I would hope that if you're listening to this, you're obviously subscribed here, wherever you're listening to this podcast, but please, it would be great if you could also subscribe

to my main YouTube channel and the CVV clips channel as they both continue to grow. It's all continuing to grow, and it's all because of you. So I hope you enjoyed this. I hope that there was a lot of value here and insight, of course, pun intended there. Even though this was Travis's show, I feel like there was a lot of insight here that was being brought to it. So go check out Travis's podcast called Travis Makes Friends. You can find it where you're listening to this. And snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening to this. Let us know what really stood out for you here. And tag us. He's at Travis Chapel. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And John Wooden has this great quote that I'll leave you with. Don't give up on your dreams

or your dreams will give up on you. Be great. Be grateful. Have an amazing weekend. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley?

How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this.

Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.