Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Spike Dudley: His Most HARDCORE Moments, What He Said NO To, ECW, Brutal Chair Shots, Life After Wrestling

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

Spike Dudley is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in ECW, WWE and TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Providence, Rhode Island to discuss his many brutal bumps and which one hurt the most, taking the first-ever 3D from The Dudley Boyz, his matches with The Undertaker and Steve Austin, his appearance at TLC 2 at WrestleMania X-Seven, the moment he decided to step away from wrestling, a possible Hall of Fame induction, and more!Quote I'm thinking about: "Wrinkles will only go where the smiles have been." - Jimmy BuffetPlease support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux   SUPERPOWER: Go to https://Superpower.com and use code CVV to get $50 Off your annual Superpower subscription. Live up to your 100-Year potential. #superpowerpod   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Welcome back to another one here on Insight, episode number 800. Woo! I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for hitting play on this episode. And thank you for hitting play on all 800 episodes. And for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit a top rope power bomb on that follow button on Apple or.

Spotify or wherever you're listening. So you don't miss out on any new interviews every Tuesday and Thursday. And of course, Ask CVV on Friday. The legend, Spike Dudley, is on the show. And his name is just synonymous with tough. When you think of the craziest, wildest spots in all of wrestling, he's been a part of a lot of them.

You know that phrase takes a licking and keeps on ticking? That is the epitome of Spike Dudley. He's now happily retired, has been for a long time. He and his wife live in Providence, Rhode Island, and they have two kids. He has a great job in finance, but it's very clear he has two distinct lives. There was wrestling, and there's life after wrestling, and it's so great to see how well he's doing now. He rarely does interviews, so this was an honor to be able to sit down with him in person for this, and we covered a ton of stuff.

We talk about all of those crazy spots like Undertakers choke slam to the outside, that vicious chair shot from Lita at WrestleMania 17, double flaming tables, getting tossed into the audience and getting crowd-served back, so many of these. And it's also interesting to hear his take on what he thinks his life would look like if he hadn't decided to retire, if he just kept going with it. And it's just a fascinating story. and I hope that you enjoyed this as much as I did. Snap a screenshot and post this online and tag me

because just like Steve Blackman, Spike Dudley does not have social media. So just tag me. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and I'd be happy to share this out. Now let's dive into this. Please welcome the legend himself. Spike Dudley. This is my first time in Rhode Island.

It's a great state. You actually picked a great spot for it too. Yeah, we're right downtown. Did you do anything last night? I got it pretty late. Okay. I ate some food. Yeah, well, it's a good place.

There's a lot of good restaurants. But thank you for the invite to come out this way. Thanks for having me. You know, I've realized that Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island. None of the above. I'm sure you've heard this joke before. Well, yeah.

We used to be the smallest state with the longest name. Now we're just the smallest state. And you've been here your whole life? No. I was born in Buffalo, New York. And I lived there until I was five. and I moved to Providence, Rhode Island then, which I love because everybody goes on the internet. It's my totally born in Providence.

No, I wasn't. You don't know shit. But yeah, no, that's a little, I moved here when I was five, but for the most part, grew up here. And then you found, or you started training on the West Coast, right? After college, I moved to the West Coast. And that's where I found a wrestling school and broke into it. And after a couple of years of training. that's when I got the offer from ECW.

Can you get to the East Coast? And yeah, I can get to the East Coast. Okay, well, if you come out this time, we'll give you a look. So I packed everything up. I didn't have a job. I just had an offer to come try out. But I was like, screw it. I was driving a Toyota to sell.

It was about two seats. It was tiny. Whatever I was most important to me, I threw in the car, drove straight across country in two days and showed up at the House of Hardcore on the Thursday at like 3 o'clock and I checked into hotel in five minutes after I checked in. I don't know if you've told you the story. Okay. Check into the seedy hotel is all I could afford.

Five minutes after I get there, Bubba pulls up in this giant, I wouldn't, I want to say like a Lincoln continent, but it wasn't even. that it was just one of those huge old 70 sedans it was just crazy and there's Bubba and I knew nothing about anything there's this 400 pound dude get in the car

we're going to the house of hardcore okay so I grabbed my boots and shit and got in the car and we drove over there and then the house of hardcore which is the ECW training school and there's Bubba Taz

Perry Saturn, Mikey Whiprek. I think there were a couple of the young guys that weren't even even at match like Danny Dorr and Roadkill. And they threw me in and it was like just start wrestling around. And then the next night was an ECW show that I didn't work on.

And then Saturday was at the arena. And that was when they debuted me. So they debuted me by Big Dick carrying me down in a duffel bag, throwing the duffel bag in the ring. I unzip and come out. And the crowd's just like, who's this little shit? And I start punching and all of that.

And they instantly shit can me. And then five minutes later, the schmaz, it was like Axel, Bubba, Devon. There was all sorts of people in this giant fight worked their way up to the balcony. So I popped in the ring, came out of the bag, got dumped, disappeared. And then five minutes later, we're up on the balcony. And there's Bubba. And he picks me up as a press slam and throws. me on to like Axel and Devon and everybody and just introduced by not a wrestling match just a

giant ECW Schmaws but that was it and uh they put me on every show henceforth like they didn't it wasn't even like a contract it was polly said okay do you show up next week yeah I'm here okay and he wasn't paying anything it was like 75 bucks for a match and I was like what can I make some extra Can you get on ring crew? Yeah, I'd love to. So I was doing ring crew for 75 bucks and wrestling for 75 bucks. Double a pay. Well, the advantage was if you're on ring crew, they would get a room for the ring crew.

So there'd be like eight of us in the room, sleeping in the bathtubs and all that sort of stuff. But it was helpful for trans because you didn't have to pay for a room until I had been there for like a year. And then I was like, okay, let's get a real. deal you're here, you're part of us, and then the money started to get better and I got offering crew. What do you think Taz saw in you in that tape that you sent to ECW? It wasn't TAS. It wasn't Taz?

No, it was Paul. It was because they wanted to do the Dudley, it was Paul. It was Raven. Taz knew me from the house of hardcore. And if anything, Taz just looked like, okay, here's a guy that obviously is shorter than me. so I you know it makes me look good let's bring him in I got no I'm only kidding but um no it wasn't tas wasn't the creative minds it was always it was paul it was raving it was dreamer bubble liked me um and at the time thrown with the dudley characters we were talking earlier there was so many

duddlies but at the time that i got there it was down to baba devon big dick and sign guide Devon was the heel. Dick was, you know, a character. He wasn't a worker. So by tagging me and Bubba as the baby faces, Bubba was in the feud with Devon. We worked out for a couple months until Bubba and Devon said, hey, the two of us, we can go places.

So they turned on me. They joined their alliance. And then I became the baby face blown person. I had Devon on the show a few weeks ago. and he said that having you join the Dudleys was what really helped to get them over. Well, they could beat the shit out of me. And I say that with love.

They didn't take advantage. Having worked with them so much, especially Bobo, he knew how much I could take. And that was my gift, was I could take a hell of a beating. and he pushed it to the limit. He never injured me.

Bubba never injured me, but he beat the shit out of me. Devon was a little bit more gentle, but Devon did some stuff too. In fact, I got time for a story. This was hilarious. During that debut,

please, Bubbo was the face. Devon was the heel. Dick was a face. And I forgot who else was involved. I think Axel was involved as a heel with Devon. So I pop out of that bag and get knocked out of the ring and disappeared. Now, to get to that balcony, it was like a schmazz through the crowd. And Devon was mixing it up with someone with Bubba on the

floor and he drops Bubba with something. And I just improv, I see Devon, I jump on his back and I start wailing him. He had just met me. He didn't know who I was. And he thought it was a fan. So he grabbed me by the, by the neck over his shoulder and did like that judo throw onto the concrete with everything. And just, I was just like, and he looked down at me. He was like, oh shit, Spike.

I'm sorry. I didn't know it was you. He thought he was getting jumped by a fan. So, yeah, that was the only time he really, really laid, but that was a shoot because he thought he was protecting himself from some idiot

fan. I have no clue that it was me. So you call it a gift that you were able to take a beating. Yes. At what point did you realize you had this gift? When I was about four years old, I had three older brothers that used to beat the shit out of me. Not in a bad way, but like we were there, everybody was sports, soccer, football, hockey, all that sort of stuff. And as being the youngest, the only way I could hang with the big brothers was to play the neighborhood games with the older kids with them and not cry and not complain about it. So they would treat me just as they would them, give me the hits, give me the shots.

And as long as I sucked it up and dealt with it, I was allowed to hang out with the big brothers. So I knew I could take a beating in that sense. But I think it really came down to when I first started the wrestling school in California. I forgot that it was Pacific Coast Sports, became the one that Roland Alexander. whatever that promotion, all pro wrestling or something like that. But when I first started, I got into it going, I want to be a manager, referee, because I'm too small. I can't be a wrestler. And I said, okay.

And they throw everybody in in the initial training. And the initial training there was take your own bumps, learn to fall flat, all of that sort of stuff. And then the rest was amateur wrestling. They taught you shoot wrestling. And after like the first month, I started with a class of like 10 people. And they were all big dudes. No one was smaller in 200 pounds. They were all big.

And after like a month or so, I was the only one left. They'd all dropped out. They were all pusses. And so then the next class comes in. I started with them. And I'm taking the bumps. And I'm doing the shoot wrestling. And I was holding my own.

I mean, they could overstrength me and all of that. But if I got the technique in, I could get the better of and all that. And then it was my, the head trainer's name was Rick Thompson. beautiful guy, great guy who was just a, he was a territory wrestler in the 70s, 80s, um, like California, Southwest. He was the head trainer. And after like three months of this

training with me as a manager, he just looked at me. He was like, he's like, Matt, he's like Matt, he's, you know, you're fun to watch. The hell with his man. We were going to make you a wrestler. And I went, okay. And at the time, it was a unique gimmick. I mean, Ray Mysterio was in Mexico. He hadn't, quite, he hadn't gotten, like the ECW stuff, this was prior to all of that. There were no small guys, you know, small guy would have been like Ricky Morton or I'm just trying to think of guys that were like rock and roll express, you know, I mean,

whatever, but that's the example of pops in my life, 200 pounds. Yeah. There was nobody that was just an average guy off the street in the ring because it was all shoot K-Fade. Like they wanted that credibility of nobody can hang with the big guys. So I was a unique look. And even then in California, when I started, they always put me in there with the biggest guys. Because I could take the bumps so well in the sense, like the crowd would just go, holy shit.

And I think we've talked about this, Davian Goliath is a story that, one, it's time. I like everybody knows David and Goliath little guy versus the giant little guy and you just walk into the ring and you just look and there's Dave and Goliath like there's no you don't even need any more story than that that's what it is yeah so it's the the little guy that does not quit always comes back he's always trying doesn't always win but he's like man you know you know you're gonna he's either going to get the shit kicked out of him in a very entertaining way or he might pull off a win but it was it was also the way that you wrestle You were so scrappy.

Like to put a little guy in there to just get beat up by the bigger guys, that's one thing. But I always thought like you had a chance. Bam Bam Bigelow. And we might have hit this last time we spoke was, that was like my, aside from the Dudley storyline that went on the whole time I was at ECW. My first feud was with a program, as we call it.

It was with Bam Bam Bigelow. Bam wanted to do it because it was easy. he wasn't going to get hurt wrestling me, you know what I mean? But he also knew he could get me over. And we wrestled a few times. And the one thing he came after the first match was like, despite, like, I love that you sell for me. He's like, but I should never have to bend over to pick you up.

I was like, what do you mean? He's like, you're the little guy. You're always scrapping. You're always trying to get to your feet. You're never just lie on the ground and you're dead. You're always trying to get up, trying to fight, trying to fight. And that was like that was the most important lesson I think I ever learned for my gimmick was no matter what happens is I'm always trying. I'm always trying to

get back into it no matter what. That clip of Bam Bam throwing you into the crowd like gets played all the time still. It's it's strange. Yeah, I think it's a part of wrestling history and I'm not trying to brag or anything like no, it's a fact. Right. It always comes back. And this was a few years ago. I don't watch too much of it occasionally. I'll mark out and search and stuff like that. And I saw something. And it was like five, seven years ago. They were showing like the new WWE guys. It was like just some vignette. And they were like, this is old ECW stuff. And they showed this thing. They didn't even know where I was of me getting thrown in the crowd. And these kids were just like, oh my God. Did they throw them in the crowd? like that that's insane and and this is from these new guys that do all of these crazy high spots and all that sort of stuff and they watch that they're like holy shit um and a lot of that that you could only do that with ECW because you needed the crowd to catch for one thing did you know they were going to catch you there's no way of knowing we were fairly confident um and one of the things that that bam bam did especially at the arena that one that's played is from the Philadelphia Arena. That was the best image was prior to him throwing me.

You know, he'd beat on me and I'd be down selling. And he'd look at the crowd and he's like, do you want me to throw him to you? And they'd all go, yeah. And then he'd go to the other side. Yeah. And yeah. So he like fed the crowd.

Hey, he's coming. You're going to catch him? Yeah, like, you know, not are you going to catch him? But do you want it? And they were all like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And at the arena, they caught me like a baby. You know, it was like crowd surfing, wherever everybody puts their arms up.

And cool, all right, this is great. Go for a ride. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. It was, and I always go back to, like, the biggest influences, Bambit. One, he got me over. Because the whole gimmick behind that, and the storyline has been lost.

All everybody sees is the throw. But the storyline behind that was I just did a match with him. The first time I wrestled was on TV, ECW TV. I beat him. Yeah. Like a nut shot and I rolled him up. And he was like the big beast with the, you know,

the triple threat was Shane and Chris Candido and all of that. And he wasn't supposed to lose the little job or Spike Dudley. He put me over. And then the revenge was the throw. And we, I wrestle like after I beat him, I probably wrestle him like 20, 30 times for the next three months. And I never beat him again, obviously.

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The name Spike Dudley is synonymous with being a tough SOB. And you laugh, but it's so true. What's the moment or the match that you feel like made you really get that status? There's a couple different ways I can answer that. There was no one match early with ECW. It was a block of work of three months, four months, where I would just get, you know, coming up with these spots or these bumps that just look crazy, where the group ECW is like, okay, Spike can hang. He's cool. You know, from a personal point of view, and it's funny because I just, I ran into Dreamer at a T&A show. I was telling you, they came to Rhode Island a few weeks ago, and I brought my wife and family down, and we walked back in Tommy. He told

a story to my kids about a match. It was a house show match with the WWE. I'm well into my career. And he told this story to my kids. And that was when I was like, this is where I knew at the time, I'm no longer tough. At the time, I was tough. And I got to tell you the story because it's a funny story. So we're wrestling a house show. No TV. These are easy shows. Nobody goes out to break their neck. And it was like a six-man match or a tag team. I think it was me and Tommy and somebody and it was against Test and maybe Christian or somebody. And I'm in there with tests who is a physical specimen, 67, 68, 280 jacked, no fat, wasn't a natural wrestler. The business found him. He didn't, he didn't love the business, you know, but he learned.

He was, he was a good worker. So he's in there and we had, we did this spot. He throws me in the corner charges. And I put the boot up. and he backs up, I scoot to the middle rope and hit him with a missile drop kick. Now, I don't know where, who trained him. And God, I don't mean, I know rest in peace. I'm not trying to disparage the dead. But when somebody throws a drop kick at you,

as a wrestler, you protect yourself. You either turn your face, you put your hand up, but you're giving him a target to hit. Yeah. And him being six foot eight, I aim at his face. just expecting him to put his hand up or turn or anything like that. And he just walked into it.

And so I did the drop kick. And when you do a drop kick, me personally, like you turn away. Like after you hit when you push off the, you flare out. But he led with his face and my feet hit him right in the face. And I didn't know because I flared away. And I'm just going as a drop kick, whatever. And he no-sells it and grabs me. and he throws me in the corner and he starts wailing on me.

And as he's beating on me, like he's, he's really laying it in with everything. I'm laughing. I'm going, hey, test, man, what's your deal? I thought we were friends. Why are you so stiff? Come on, man, it's a house show. And every time I say something, he's hitting me harder. I'm like, test, what's going on?

Why are you so angry with me? And I'm just taking it. I'm taking it. And he's literally trying to hurt me. And I'm laughing at him and making jokes. And finally, I wrote something, I rolled outside and he picks me up and he rams my back into the post. And that, that got me a little bit. That was like, okay, you know, now, now you're crossing the lines.

And I didn't even realize what was going on. And his mouth was busted up. He had a bloody nose or something like that to me. You're a pussy. Like, whatever. So we got back and I was like, test, what's going on? He's like, don't talk to me. I was like, what are you talking?

You drop kick me in the face. I just look. Do you not turn your head? Did you not put your hand up? Like, what do you? It's a drop kick. What the fuck? And that's because he just didn't know.

But that was the first time after all of the years in the business that it triggered me that, okay, here's a guy that's 150 pounds bigger than me, beat the shit out of me in real life, was pounding on me. and I was laughing at him in his efforts to do so. And that was a story. Tommy told my kids, like, this is how tough your dad is. Oh, my God.

You don't feel tough anymore? Not in that sense. No, I mean, I'm, I mean, I think I'm capable of violence, but I, I'm out of it. I mean, I've been out of it. I haven't wrestled a match in 15 years. Yeah, what's your relationship with wrestling?

like now. I don't really have one. I'm out of it. When it was time to get out, it was time to get out. My wife was pregnant. Okay, so this is what happened. This is how I officially got out of the business. My wife was a few months pregnant with our first daughter, first kid. And this is what? 2010. 2010. She was born. Yeah, that'd be 2010. Yep. And I was working for 2CW in Syracuse, New York. which is a great promotion. It's no longer there, but at the time it was an awesome promotion, awesome promotion.

Just great, great guys. Truly, aside from like ECW, this group is the group that's like closest to my heart in terms of the boys and all of that. And they used me a lot at that company. But they booked me in a match against Sabu. Again, RIP. And I drove up there.

It's about a five-hour drive, drove up and I did the show and I got my arm sliced. Look at that scar. Yeah, that's my saboo scar. Oh my gosh. But after, like, it wasn't bleeding that bad. It was a slice. Like it was, it was just.

From what? A gimmick. It was, uh, honestly, going into it, I was like, this is me my saboo match. I'm going to do, you know, and I was like, I'm going to do my arm. So self-inflicted. You know it is. But, um, so I saw it. I just, I taped it up and I got into my car and I drove home. And I got home at like four or five

in the morning. Got him by my wife. She's like, hey, okay. Everything all right? I was like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. I fell asleep. And I woke up at like nine the next morning. I start to peel the tape off and the blood just starts gushing. And I was like, honey, I think we got to go to the emergency room. But then that was the moment where I realized, you know, okay, I'm going to be a father. I can't be doing this crazy stuff anymore. Because physically, that's what I did. was take bumps. And no matter how indestructible, we all think we are, you hit a wall where you cannot do that anymore.

And so I was like 40, 41, something like that at the time. And that was the eye opener that, okay, I can't do this and be a responsible parent any longer. So I got my stitches and I called it quits. I had a couple of matches after. But that was the signal that, you're done with the business. But so many wrestlers say they're going to get out

and they still keep one foot in. It's a match every month or it's conventions. What was the line? That was the line in the sand for you? Well, I had to talk with my wife. And their name's Vic. Vicki was just like, you know, Matt, if you're going to get out,

you got to get out. And you're not doing it for me. You're not doing it for our daughter. It's either you get out or you don't get out. but if you decide to stay in, think of the consequences. And I was just like, nope, I'm out. So after at that point, I was out. And, and that was it.

I mean, for years, I still get requests used to wrestle or in stuff like that. But I wasn't interested. I didn't want to, especially once my daughter was born, I never wanted to miss a day, drive into Ohio to do an indie show for a couple hundred bucks or something like that. And like the time with the family was more important than my, I had my run. I had a blast. I had a great career. Proud of it and all that.

But I couldn't, I can't even if, if like, let's say the W. W.W. offered me a job as an agent or something like that. I couldn't have done that either. Because the same thing. You're on the road. Traveling. You're all over the place.

I couldn't do it anymore. And be a father. I've heard so many wrestlers just say like, I wanted to get out, but I missed the pop. Even if it's just a few hundred people, I miss that reaction from the crowd. I mean, there's a little bit of that. You know, like, I would occasionally, I'll go and do an autograph appearance or something. And there's a local group that, like, every two years, I'll go and referee a match or something. And there is something about that.

But I will say it was the internal. pop. It was never, like, I loved the audience in the crowd, but that wasn't what was the satisfying thing for me. The satisfying thing for me was doing something in the ring that I knew only I could pull off or very few people could pull off. And the boys' reactions. Like, getting a pop from the crowd is awesome. It's a great feeling. But when you come back and the guys, are like, are you all right? Yeah, no problem, no problem. That was the satisfying thing.

And I'll be honest, I got that at the WWE when I first went there because there was a lot of the guys, you know, they didn't, they knew ECW, but they didn't study it and stuff like that. So when I came in and they started putting me on TV and Bubba and Devon are beating the shit out of me. And I'd come back and there'd be like Jerry Briscoe or Pat Patterson or Jim Ross going, like, holy shit, are you okay? Are you okay?

And I, yeah, why? What's the problem? that was what was satisfying, you know. I'll tell you the Undertaker story. So they asked me to go to Mania, the one in Philadelphia, not last one, the one before that. 40? 40, yeah.

And they brought me in to just be there for the Hall of Fame and all that, but it wound up being like a six-day event. And I didn't really do much, but I was there. And I brought the family, and we were like, backstage and all of that sort of good stuff. And Taker was there. I ran into Taker. And the first thing, as soon as he sees me, he's like, Spike, I just, I was watching a video and I saw me choke slam you out of the ring. I just got to say, I'm sorry. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I couldn't believe I did. I said, you don't remember how that went down, do you? Did I tell the story last

time? I love this story. Do you want to tell it again? Please. Okay. So, I'm new in the WWE. He's the hardcore champion, and they book Spike versus Undertaker. And, you know, then you always went through the match a little bit because TV time, and this is what we're going to do is what we're going to do. So he's like, hey, okay, you know, beat me up. I'll give you this little spot here, and then I'll give you the last ride and choke slam. And I looked at him.

I was like, is that it? And I didn't mean it in the sense of like, you need to do more because I'm not going to sell for you. but I was like, that's all you're going to do with me? And he's like, what do you mean? I was like, dude, I'm spike. Like, I'm 140 pounds. We can do, you can do something with me that you can't do with everybody else because of my size. And he, and he said, well, what do you have in mind?

And I didn't really have anything in mind. But I started to think for a second. And I was like, well, dude, you're choke slam. What? Chokeslam me out of the ring. He went, no. I was like, I was like, I was like, I'm sorry. serious, I can take it.

Like, I understand it's going to the pad, which is over concrete. I said, we can do it. You're an idiot. No, I'm not doing that. I said, take her. Trust me, I can, I can do this. It's like, well, let's get the crash pad out and try it. So, and this is obviously before the show.

And so we had these crash pads where you could play and test out stuff. So he tries, you know, he's spacing it and he's seeing how much he can control me and all of that. And he's still not sold. And Bubba happens to walk down to the ring while we're doing this. And he looked at Bubba and he's like, this kid wants me to choke slam him out of the ring. Like, is he, is he insane? And Bubba looked at him and he goes, take, as Spike says he can take it, he can take it. And it's okay.

Take it. He was like, okay. and he conceded. Like I had to wear him down to do that. And we pulled it off. I mean, I'm sure I don't know if you've seen the spot. Of course, you splat. It's a splat on the outside.

Yeah. So, but Taker saw it. And I mean, it was whatever, 20 years ago. And he didn't remember that I had to convince him to do it. He was apologizing to me. Like, I'm so sorry. I was such an asshole for making you do that. And I was, no, I was like, I'm an asshole because I made you do it.

But he didn't remember the spot that's why. No, he remembered the spot. He didn't remember that I convinced him. He thought in his head, he was looking back as like, hey, I'm the undertaker and I'm going to do whatever I want. So I'm going to take liberties on Little Spike. So he was apologizing for me going, I can't believe like I made you do that. Yeah.

And I'm sitting there going, no, you didn't make, I made you do that. Like, so it was, it was a relief off of him. He was like, oh, thank God. I feel so much better now that I wasn't that much of a dick. But it was a cool spot and it didn't, there was no big deal. We've seen so many wrestlers continue to do it for far too long when their body says that they probably shouldn't be doing it. What would your life look like if you continued doing it?

I don't want to even go down there because that was another thing that convinced me. It was towards the end as I'm working these indies. One of my last matches was like it was a six-man match with me and some local guys and Jimmy Snooker at the time was 70 something. And he was doing, he was there because he needed the money. He needed to hawk the eight by tens. He needed to be in the ring. And it was so sad.

I mean, here's this guy that was just the, a phenom as they, and he was. He, he, as much as Piper, like he was one of the ones that turned main stream into wrestling just prior to Hogan, like people caught on to Superfly just through, here it was Channel 56 wrestling Saturday mornings, but people caught wind of this guy. And he literally transcended the business in a lot of ways. But it was so sad to see him old and out there, not by choice, but by necessity. and it was like, I don't want to be that guy that's hustling eight by tens just to pay rent.

And as I said, with a kid coming, I was like, I can't do this forever. There's a shelf life for everything. I'm not Hulk Hogan. I'm not The Rock. I'm not John Cena. And I certainly didn't want to be an agent, you know, doing that crap, playing politics and all of that. because the business was changing to a level that I don't understand. Like, I don't understand today's business.

But I just, if I were still in it, I wouldn't, I don't think I'd be alive. I'll be honest with you. Wow. I think I would have either drank myself to death or I would have taken some sort of crippling bump because you can't, there's a difference. When you're taking the bumps, when your heart's in it, it's no big deal. but when you're taking the bumps out of desperation, it turns on your body.

And I was getting to the point where I was taking the bumps. I was blading. I was doing all of this out of anger, out of desperation, out of some last hope to stay relevant. And it wasn't working for me emotionally, physically, obviously. It was just, I was done.

I was done. I mean, I probably made a lot of bad decisions that helped force me out. But as I said, such as life, those decisions help me find a new life for the better. And what you're doing now couldn't be any further from pro wrestling. It's pretty different. I will say that. Yeah, it's wild. I'll give you.

So I work for Fidelity Investments and I'm on what's called the Transition Services Team, which is when people die, 90% of what I do is when people die, their assets have to go to their trust, their estate, to their name beneficiary. So I'm speaking with these people that are receiving the assets and going, what are we going to do with them? And there's a little bit of everything in this job, which is cool. There's financial planning.

There's a little bit of psychology. There's lawyering. There's a little bit of everything. and every call is different. So it's satisfying in that sense. I mean, it would never have been my first choice of, you know, as a kid, do you grow up? What do you want to do? Be a transition service specialist.

No. But I've found my niche with it and it's been good. How does the life of wrestling lead to working in this job now? Like they look at your resume and they go, okay, ECW, WWE, TNA. Well, I got into the financial world through sales. So I was looking for a job when I said, okay, I'm done. And it wound up being insurance sales, which is horrible bullshit. You're selling people life insurance.

It's just, it's a scam. It's all not the life insurance is a scam, but the business, the industry is ridiculous. It sucks. I'm not a good salesman. but you have to get licensed within the financial world. So I did it for a couple of years and I made no money. It was just horrible. But I was getting licensed through FINRA and through all of the financial stuff.

And I was looking for a place to go. And I saw a job opening for this role. And it was with Merrill Edge, which is Bank of America. And I applied. And they were like, oh, yeah. And I think the wrestling background kind of intrigued them a little bit. It'd be like, hey, it'd be cool to get this guy. But I got the job with them, and I did it with them for about seven, eight years.

And Fidelity has the same role with their company. And Fidelity is just an amazing company, a hundred times better than Bank of America. But let's not go down that path. So I moved from Bank of America to Fidelity about four years ago. And it's just, it's been great. My first introduction to you was beyond the mat. I remember. Were you there?

No, no, just watching it. Oh, watching the actual movie. Watching the movie and seeing this young guy with blood pouring down his face, quoting Shakespeare. Yeah. That was, here's what people, this is what's great. Barry Blaustein. That was the director of the film, right? was a really, really cool guy.

There it is a cool guy. I don't think he's dead. I saw him a few years ago. I hope he's not dead. He came up. He had this idea to do the movie. And I think he had like Jake the Snake and Terry Funk. He already got that part of it down.

But he wanted to tell the story of beginner wrestlers getting into the business. And he was in L.A. And we were in Hayward, California, where our school was. And he came up and did some filming and he saw me in the ring. And it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I like Matt. It was cool. So he started filming me and he brought me down to his home for about a week, maybe three, four days, something like that.

I don't remember. But down to L.A. And he took me to a cauliflower alley, you know, like the Hall of Fame meeting. And there was a bunch of people there. And then he took me out for a. a day with Ted DiBiase. And he filmed all of this stuff. And then we're getting ready to shoot the movie.

I made it to ECW. And they couldn't use me because now I was a known wrestler. They wanted somebody that hadn't made it. So all of that footage was not used. But he gave me, he did that one little clip, but he's got hours of, like, And that cauliflower alley, I remember I was with Ted DiBiase. And Ted introduced me like Stan Hansen and like Thess was, Lou Thess was still there.

And, you know, like Red Bosteen, there was all of these old timers. And when I was hanging out with Ted, Barry showed him a couple of my matches, my indie matches. And he introduced me to Stan. I'll never forget this because Ted was like, hey, here's Matt Heisen. And he's a worker. And Stan looked at me. He was like, get the fuck out of here. And Ted was like, no, Stan, this kid can work, which was like the biggest compliment you could possibly imagine.

And Stan was like, okay, Ted vouchers for you. That's cool. But I met a lot of really cool people during those couple of days. And I'd love, like, I ran into Barry a few years ago in Florida. And I should have asked him. I was like, what happened to that footage? I'd love to have it or at least see it. Yeah.

But it was pretty cool. So, yeah, so I had a bigger role in that behind the mat. So what happened was they wound up focusing on, like, I think like Mike Modest and Robert Thompson, who I think they had some clips in there of them getting tryouts and stuff like that. There's something so beautiful about the juxtaposition of your scene, though, because it's Shakespeare is art, right? Yes. Wrestling is art.

Yeah. They are on two completely different ends of the spectrum. It totally ties in. But the stories from Shakespeare, you can totally do the storylines to wrestling. It helped. I'll be out. Okay, let's go all back this way.

I was an English major at Skidmore College. And I only took English because I didn't know what, hey, I can read and write and write a paper. My, the one professor had an impact on me. His name was Victor Kahn was a Shakespeare student, to whatever you want to call it. And I took a bunch of his classes, and he was like kind of my inspiration.

And he was a nerd. His idea of a good time was to like get a bag of potato chips on a Saturday night and watch wrestling. And somehow we would write papers every week, and it would just be on random things. And I wrote a paper on wrestling. And he pulled me aside. He was like, you like wrestling?

And yeah, and we started talking about wrestling and all of that. then when I came my senior year, it was, what do you, you know, what do you want to do with your life? Like, forget whatever. What's your dream? And the dream was wrestling. He was like, dude, go for it. He didn't say it like that. But he was like, just do it. He's like, start looking up wrestling schools. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. And he was a guy that said, if you follow your dream, it's not about achieving that goal. Like obviously your goal on a WWF champion whatever it has nothing to do with that it's the path Yeah it's are you doing what you love

Ted Balucci who was the ladies man oh he's got all sorts of different gimmicks He's got a wrestling a shop I trained him well he was in the business but he was out of this top rope wrestling and he just retired and because now he's approaching like my age at that time, he's 40, and he just had his first baby. And he, you know,

he did a couple of WWF TV appearances, but he never made a contract. But he wrestled everywhere, and he knew everybody. And Dreamer had him on one of his, I don't know, podcast or something like that. And it was celebrating the Ted's getting out of the business.

And Tommy said something. It was like, dude, that doesn't matter that you were, you never made it. to the top tier with a contract. You were a success in the business. You did what you loved.

You traveled. You met people. You wrestled everybody. Like you were a success. It doesn't matter what level. If you're doing what you love, you did something. You accomplished.

The journey is the destination. Yeah. Yeah. And if you were asked me, where are my happiest times in the world of wrestling, it was definitely those first few years in ECW when I was starving,

struggling. but living the dream. Okay, I'm on the road. I'm a pro wrestler. And I met, you know, Terry Gordy the other day. And I met, you know, Steve Williams was there.

And Rick Roo came in. And like, you got to meet all of these people. And you were there. You were a part of it. You know, when it becomes a business, which is what happened,

you know, when I got to the WW, then it's a business. Not that it wasn't fun, but, it changes. You know what I mean? ECW was always passion.

Did it take some of the love out of it for you? Of course. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Because like at ECW, if you had an idea, hey, Paul, can I do this? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, go with it. It was very, like, it was open, and it was all for one, and it was family and all of that. And the WWE, if you had an idea and you pitch it, for one,

it's instantly you get shit on because it wasn't the agent's idea or wasn't Vince's idea. And then you got to butt heads and battle and do all of that and politic. And that's not, I'm not a good politicker. Bubba was great at it. And thank God I had him because he, he protected me for like those years. But I was not good at it. And I couldn't, I couldn't even imagine jumping into like those, you hear about,

especially at that time, like the writers, meetings and you had L.A. writers, your kids from Hollywood writing scripts that weren't about wrestling. It was about what's going to sell on TV on Raw and get them to come in, which they had their place, but it wasn't, you couldn't make them understand the wrestling side of it. And they couldn't make me understand the TV side. Yeah, yeah. So it was. When you look at your highlight reel, there's things that you. you do that only Spike Dudley can do. Yeah.

What were the things you said no to? Were there things you said no to? No, not really. Then that's wild. But here's the thing is, but that was all taken with consideration. Like, I never did anything I didn't think I could walk away from. Okay.

There are things that I could not do. I'm not a moonsault guy. to doing like any sort of 180, 360. I, it wasn't even on the table. But nobody ever asked me to do something that I can think of that I went, no, I'm not going to do that. If I felt, I mean, if I knew I could do it, I was willing to do it. It didn't matter about, it's not about the, for me, it wasn't the physical pain. A bump is going to hurt.

It was, am I going to get injured? doing it. And no, I can't really think of anything that I mean, on the indies with like after WWE, I'd go to these

indie shows with kids with light bulbs and shit like that and I, no, I wouldn't. I'd say no to that stuff. But in the, you know, ECW to WE, TNA, um,

nobody ever asked me to do something that I wasn't wow I didn't feel comfortable with yeah what's the thing you did in the ring that hurt the most hurt the most yeah you seem indestructible I'll be honest that one bump that I was telling you about with the um the Bubba and Devon tossed me over in ECW yeah and I and that was my idea um so the setup is yada yada. It's me and balls against Bubba and Devon. In the ring, Bubba and Devon are standing next to each other. Balls picks me up and tosses me at them. In theory, they're supposed to take a bump, but I'm so small, they catch me. They catch me in their arms, cradled side by side, and they just back straight up to the ropes and blind chucked me over the top. This was my bump. I called this bump. But what happened?

happened was when they tossed me as I, the guardrails were those metal things. My heel hit the top of the guardrail and exploded. And that would like, and I don't, I don't think I got hurt, hurt. Like I didn't, I certainly didn't need x-rays or go to the end, but I was like, ow, that hurts. And I was kind of hobbled the rest of the time. But that was, that was most, that was, one I remember as like, ah, can I go on? Am I able to finish the match as the most painful, I would say. Yeah, definitely. I'd go with that one.

I want to go through some of my favorite Spike Dudley moments. And maybe you can give us some of the great stories behind them, the double flaming table. Okay. Now, those are not my favorite. Yeah, that was more Bubba and Devon wanted to do. do fire. Fire doesn't look fun. It's not because you can't control it.

However, it goes out. Like how it works is they put that lighter fluid down. It's not high temperature and it's not, it goes out when you smother it. But the double table, like take the fire out of it, them putting me through double tables, no problem. And then they did, we want to do the fire. Okay, let's do, let's do the fire. I don't like fire. I mean, I really, really don't. But I was like, okay, I mean, I'll, I'll do it. And I taped up my elbows, my arms, and I soaked myself in water. And, you know, the overalls in the t-shirt. I was doused in water before that. And at ECW, believe it,

or not, we had buckets of water under every corner with towels and stuff. So the referees, the security guards and all of that, they were aware of all. So we took every precaution possible, but I'm not, I don't like that. You know what I mean? Like I, I've done fire a couple of times and it's not, not my thing. My favorite ECW match of all time is you versus Mike Awesome. And when you talk about David versus Goliath, I mean, it's so obvious there. I think that Mike Awesome is such an underrated big guy. Oh, God, yeah. We were just talking about him.

I ran into Bubba and RVD and all of that a couple of weeks ago. And Mike came up as what a specimen he was. Incredible. And how over he was in Japan. I mean, he was like 6, 9, 300 pounds in shape. And he had incredible balance. Like he was a really, really good athlete. And he used to like to work with me because one, it was easy for him.

But he could do things. Like he could, you know, put me over his shoulder and walk to the top rope and balance. Like, it was crazy. Yeah, those PowerBond sponsors are wild to watch. Yeah, he always took care of me. Like standing on top of the top rope. Right. And he walked up backwards.

Right. Yeah. With you. On his shoulder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, when he was doing it, I'm going to go, oh, my God, my God. But he always took care of me. Like, Mike was great.

That's a long way to fall, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing with Mike was Mike, Mike was a really mellow dude. And he let me call a lot of it. Like, he didn't have much. He was like, I want to get this spot or that spot. Yeah, no problem. No problem.

Um, so that the one main event, the ECW main event was me and I forgot how it was guilty. Guilty's charge. Yeah. Like I basically called the match. It was for the ECW championship. It was. Yeah. And there was it, like we felt like there was a chance who could win.

Well. Yeah. Well, it's kind of funny on that because, um, I blew my knee out in that match. Which I didn't know for about a month or so. after like you know it's something popped in my knee and i was whatever i kept working on it um and it's funny because paulie i was talking with him i forget sometime after years after and he was like if we knew mike was going to leave we would have dropped the title to you you know but like a few months after that that's when he made the jump to wcw and they had to bring in tasks now had i not

been injured we probably would have just done a rematch and i would have beat him just wow um but you know it's no big deal. What a moment that would have been for Spike Dudley to be the ECW champion? Again, it doesn't, I could give a shit about the titles. Titles were a pain in the ass, to be honest with you.

I did not like having the titles. In ECW, because you had to carry, I mean, you always had to carry the belts around. Actually, the ones in ECW, me and Balls, when we were tag champs, that was significant to me.

And the WWI, I had a bunch of these titles and it was all bullshit. You know what I mean? Your disdain for holding a title is hilarious. Well, I was a tag team, WWE tag team champion with TAS.

Yeah. And to me as a fan, especially a fan of the 70s and 80s, the championship meant something. And at the time, like, the WWE was riding high. This was like 2001, 2002 ratings up the ass selling out everywhere and not just the TV shows but the house shows.

You go and do a house show in Nagadashis, Texas and there's 15,000 people. Like we were making money. We were selling out. And Taz was doing commentary as well as this wrestling. But his heart was not in it. But they put it together. They put the straps on us. Now, at the time, I was wrestling five days a week.

And as soon as I got the straps, I was off the house shows because Taz didn't do the house shows. He would only show up for TV. And then the rest of the time, he was doing commentary. He was in the studio. And I'm suddenly making 70% less money because he didn't want to wrestle. And I remember this after like a week or two. I called up Jim Ross, who was head of talent.

I was like, Jim, the fuck? And he's like, what? I was like, I'm the tag team champion. Why am I making $1,000 this week instead of $10,000 when I was just a jobber? Well, your partner doesn't want to wrestle. I said, well, take the fucking straps off me. Put me back on the road. I don't care about the straps, but I was like, this is ridiculous.

I'm the tag team champion. And I'm making less money than I did when I was. just putting guys over. Yeah. Fuck this. And Tad Taz a good guy and all of that. But at the time, Taz didn't want him to be in the ring. He had lost his confidence.

He was done. And so even when we did wrestle, it was always just, I did all the work. He'd come in and do his sleeper hold. And so it was very disappointing for me to hit that level. And it was, it was. it was almost like I'd rather just be on the opening curtain jerk or putting guys over

doing my job versus trying to be a tag team champion with a guy that didn't want to be in the ring at all. How scared were you doing that first balcony jump with New Jack and you're terrified? That was the first time I did the balcony. That was that was horrifying.

Very scary. So, That place, that arena, I forgot the name of it, but it was an awesome place for ECW. Like the setting of it was just fucking great. And that was probably the highest one I think I did. It was like 20, 22 feet or something like that. And it was high up there.

And I had never done anything like that. And when it was time, I was just like, okay I'm gonna do it like you know again those that was one I didn't say no too because I okay I'm gonna walk away in one piece but um that was that was without a doubt the scariest of my dives you know like I've jumped off shit since then excuse my language I'm allowed to you could say anything you are yeah yeah I mean I jumped off a lot of stuff and all of that but that was the first time and part of it was that in order to do it is you had to kind of like you had your seat and then the little wall and then there was like a the iron the rail so you had to

stand on that iron rail to kind of push off and I was worried about my foot slipping or something like that um but yeah I was I mean if you look at that clip I'm you can see I'm scared I mean there's no doubt about it but um it was a cool moment it really was um because the the audience was it was just so ripe. It was just such a hardcore ECW moment of that double balcony jump. It was pretty cool. It really was. You were such a big part of Brock Lesnar's debut. Brock. And I feel like the way that Brock was able to manhandle you, especially in that WWE debut, made him look like even more of a monster. Yeah. Yeah. Brock. Well, I'd worked with him during And they, those guys, that Ohio crew, OVW, do you remember?

Yeah. At that time, it was like Brock, Batista. Orton, Sina. Yeah, the twins, the Haas brothers. Yeah. Benjamin, Sheldon, Benjamin. So these guys were just monster athletes and all of that. And they were doing the house shows with us.

And Brock and I worked house shows for about a month or so prior to his TV debut, just to get him some ring time and all of that. And yeah, it was easy for him to toss me around. I mean, at the time, he was just a fucking monster. And I never heard this. I heard Paul say it after the fact when they talk about Brock's debut, like, Brock, who do you want to work with? And he picked me and Fanaki as guys he wanted to work with.

And meaning that Brock understood if I can look like a monster, it's great. I mean, so he had a good head on his shoulders. And Brock was always very extremely respectful. So we did that debut. And I think I've said this online somewhere was that was the only time I tapped out. Because he hits me with three power bombs. It was supposed to be five.

It was supposed to be five. We said in the back, like, just do as many as you can. Let's go for five. But after the third one, I was just seeing star. I couldn't hold myself up anymore. And I was just like, that's it, brother. He goes down for the fourth one. And you can see, like, he's about to do it.

And I'm going, nope, can't do it. And he lets me go, which was, like, totally respectful. But, yeah, I mean, obviously, he's huge. He's a monster. But I had a lot of fun with him in those house shows. Did I tell the story, the Brock Lesnar? I've heard you rib Brock. Yes.

Yes. Well, I didn't. It was it was Kurt Henan, Mr. Perfect, was the instigator. And Kurt and Brock were great friends. They both grew up in the same town and stuff like that. And Kurt was just a cool guy, but he ribbed everybody. So we're at a house show. And I think we're in Ohio, actually, because the fans knew who these guys were, Brock and, you know, he's and all that. And this is before Brock made his debut. Before the TV debut. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like the opening match, and it's me versus Brock. And before the match, Kurt comes, pulls me aside and goes, Spike, you got to do this rib.

And I was like, what rib? He goes, have him do a leapfrog and it drop down, but when he drops down, jump on his head and slap the fuck out of him. So, I don't know, you wrestling fans. So he throws me in the ring. He leapfrogs me, so I run under him. When I come off, he drops down. So I'm supposed to run over him.

but instead, I stop, jump on his back and bitch slap his head. Okay. So prior to that happening, I pull Brock aside and I'm calling the match and I'm the veteran and say, okay, let's do the spot. Drop down leapfrog and then power slam. And he looks at me and I'll give Brock all the credit. He says, why would I do a leapfrog over you? And so, well, they want to see your athleticism and just show it off.

And he went, okay. And I'll be honest. his answer was perfect. Why would he? It makes no sense. But I called it and he said, okay. So we get in the ring.

We're doing our thing. Shoot off. Leap frog, drop down. I jump on his back and I start paint brushing his head. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And his initial reaction was anger. And he, like, he hulks out.

He's just like, rah! And I go flying off his back. And I look up at him and he's got fire in his eyes. Like, he's going to kill. kill me and he runs after me and I run out of the ring and I run around now in a straight sprint he could like catch me in half a second but he's running around I slide under the ring and of course he can't slide in as quick as me but he keeps chase me I slide back out

of the ring I run around he slides out he slides out we go around like three or four times and he finally like he blows up or something you know he's just like little shit he's still mad and somebody has a sign from OVW and it just says Brock is my bitch and he's like in the second row and I grab the sign and I run around the ring with the sign Brock is my bitch Brock is my bitch Brock is my bitch

and he's angry, he's angry and then he realizes like I'm getting ribbed and you can see kind of like he's just like and so finally it settles down I start to get in the ring and he just grabs me S-fies me he's like, fuck you.

And we go back and we went back to the locker room. There's like Kurt Henning and the entire locker room is just laughing their ass off, just crying of how bad. And Brock was great. He had a great sense of humor. He's like, you motherfucker, you got me. And all that sort of stuff. But yeah, that was a funny, funny moment with Brock.

And he was great. But after that TV debut, I never worked with him again, which is a shame. Yeah, that's true. Well, they always put him up to the, you know, the top of it and all of that stuff. But I would have loved to have done some sort of match where he could have just done his shit, like even more of throwing me all around. But he, awesome specimen. And he was a good guy.

I mean, not was. I say was like he's dead. I just haven't seen him since I got out. But really good, really good guy. And he played the game well, I got to say, between UFC. and WWL. I think he always got paid. You know what I mean?

When you look at the titles, he's won in WWE, it's only world titles. Right, right, right. No playing around. No tag titles, no mid-card titles. Right, right, right. If I'm here, I'm at top level. So let's go through a few more of these moments.

The chair shot that you took from Lita at WrestleMania 17 was one of the loudest chair shots I've ever heard. Really? Oh, my gosh. Interesting. Yeah, no, that was great. I love to use brush it up. Oh, yeah, no,

Big deal. I never realized the noise volume. Because when I looked back at WrestleMania 17, I mean, that was my first time in one of these giant megodomes. What I remember about volume was, it was so loud, it was deaf.

Like you could not hear anything. Even when somebody was like right next to you, you couldn't hear. It was like white noise because it was just, and so the sound of the chair shot, I don't recall at all. He folded it over your head. Well, and that was the idea.

I mean, it was TLC3. Lita had been in ECW. And she had obviously, she jumped in with the Hardee's and was huge star and all of that. But when it was time, like, you know, as you go over the matches and it's like, okay, leader, you take out Spike with a chair. I told her, don't try to fake this. Like, you swing that shit with everything you've got because, and I, I've been hit over the chair by guys 300, 400, 400 pounds.

There's nothing you can do swing as much, as hard as you can that's going to be heavier than the stuff I've already taken. From like Balls Mahoney. Right, right, right. So it's like you swing that with everything you've got because I don't want it to look bad. And she had no problems. Okay, Spike, that's what you say, no problem. No, Lina was great.

She was a good word. Actually, it was one of, that's one of my proudest matches. Actually, it was a match with Lee. beat him. Right after that, I worked with her. I don't know if it was like raw or if it was Sunday night heat, but it was one-on-one, me and her, and she, I put her over, but that was, that was actually a match I'm very proud of because I put her over. You know what I mean? Like, I gave her a lot of the spots that I do with big guys, but I had her do them with me. And it It was a fun match.

And then Bubba and Devon came down. And Jeff and Matt came down. It was just like a quick little 10-minute match. But I would say I'd put that up there as one of the matches that I'm like most proud of. You took the first ever 3D. Oh, God. And I think you almost broke your neck on it. You know, it's so funny.

I've heard those guys talk about that. We practiced it at that house of hardcore at the school, different variations of it forever for like weeks before that we debuted it. And yeah, that first 3D is not the way 3D is supposed to go. No. And thank God that Bobbo was in his whale time. He was at 400 pounds or something like that because I landed on his chest. My head never hit. But it was a straight spike pile driver.

And had he had he not been so big and my head's hit, I would have broke my neck. But yeah, that was ugly. ugly, ugly as all sin. That was not the way 3D was supposed to be. We try, I mean, honestly, because that was the big thing. When Bob and D decided they were going to do the tag team, it was like, we need to have a finisher. And we would go to the gym coming up with variations of some sort of, the diamond cutter was the thing. like so there was we yeah i sat there and took try this try this try this try this try this

for hours me as the crash dummy testing it and um yeah the way it came off on that first one was not really the intention that wasn't what they were looking for but it did look devastated i will say but that yeah they said okay we can't do this with everybody so we've got to figure out a different way and then they figured it out where devon picks the guy up and they flatten out versus head straight into the ground there was something so special about the way that rhino would gore you rhino is awesome i love rhino is the best uh what was so special was that he was three times bigger than me and it would fold me in half but we had good timing so when he hit me with it, like, I could roll with it and fold up.

And, yeah, Rino is fun. I threw up on Rino. What? So when I, so after the Mike Awesome match, I blew my knee out. I missed like six months. And when I came back, like ECW was all but gutted. It was at the tail end. Rino was the champ.

So when I came back, I had a little feud with Rino, but I was not in wrestling shape. And we had something. He had me in a chin. lock and I was all gassed and I literally like threw up on his arm in the match. But no, Rino is, I loved working with him. In fact,

when I got to the WVE, because it was the Hardee's with Lita, Edging Christian with Rino, Dudley's with me. So the lead up to that TLC3, we had these inner, that's I wrestled Lita and then I wrestled Rino. I don't,

think Rhino ever wrestled Lita. But anyways, so we got to do some of that stuff. And because we had worked a lot with ECW, the chemistry was there. They wanted Ryan, it would be much higher up, you know, so it was more or less a squash match. But when he, he'd goar me through a table and it was beautiful. It was a lack of a better word, but it was beautiful. What was the story behind you going toe to toe with Stone Cold on the mic? How did they, how did they set this up for you? Well, actually, it's kind of funny. So I was doing the thing with Molly. And here's what's kind of funny about that.

I always resent. I resent myself for not taking the reins with that. So it was a couple of weeks buildup of Stone Cold was the heel. And he was getting the petition going. So everybody would sign for him. But the baby faces wouldn't sign it and all of that. And then he insults Molly. And it winds up,

we have a match. But the promo, the in-ring promo, this is one of my resentments of myself in the business, was not standing up to the office, was they prior to, you know, you practice everything. And Vince came down and he was like, tell me what you're going to say and do it right now in the ring, like the way you're going to do it.

And it's, you grab the mic and you recite the words. But that's not what I would have. like to have said. So the promos and all of that were very much me playing a script, which didn't feel real or sincere. But the match, the one match that I had with him, the one-on-one match that I had with him, was an awesome experience.

You'd show up at Raw at like 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, and they'd have the board up. And that's so you knew what match you had. And it says, um, SCSA versus SD. And I didn't know what the fuck that meant. And so I look at,

I guess I don't have a match tonight because I don't see what's Spike. And like an hour later someone comes up to me. He's like, hey, you know, Spike, what are you going to do with, with Austin tonight? I was like, what are you talking about? You got the main event with Austin.

What? Oh, SD, that's me? Oh, okay, cool. Now, Steve, I love, like, Steve and I really got along. I had a lot of time with him on the road where he was just cool as shit. But at the TV time, he's like the big star and whatever, two o'clock, three o'clock. I don't see him. Like four o'clock. He walks by me, hey, Spike, I'll get with. with you later. Okay, cool. They start filming the pre-show. We're getting close to the nine o'clock raw time and it's like whatever, 8.30 or something. And I see him. And he's like, just listen to me and I'll hit you with a stutter. Okay. That was it. That was it. And that's the way

the business should be. Just call it. Just call it. Because he knew what the fuck used. I mean, his guy is brilliant in the ring on the mic. He's, I mean, to me, He's the epitome of, like, he's my favorite. Everything. Okay. Now, I'm nervous, obviously. Match starts. I haven't seen.

All I know is Stunner at the end. I come down. I do the intro. I do my intro. He comes down with his thing, you know, and the match starts. He starts kicking the shit out of me. I know how to sell.

Okay, I'll work. he's beating me up, he's beating me up, he's beating me up, he's beating me up, he throws me outside. And when he gets outside, he's like, I'm going to throw you it, reverse me, take over. So it's a squash match. There's no anything. He throws me outside, he goes to shoot me into like the announce table, and I reverse him, and he takes this giant bump, and I jump on and I start pounding him, and the crowd goes apes shit. and it's all his my cheesy punches,

a few of them in the head, and I throw him back in, and he kicks me, stuns me, end of story. But that pop, when he let me reverse him and beat on him, that's the art of the business. Like there was nothing called.

It was just follow his lead. Now you fire up on me. And when I fired up, the crowd went apes shit. I don't think they ever thought I was going to win, but they went apes shit. Because he had heat.

God, I keep wailing on this microphone. And then it was over. Yeah. And from my body of work at the WWE, that's one of the matches, if not the, that I'm most proud of because there was nothing called. And we were the main event of the TV show where everything was called.

Everything was scripted. But he didn't work that way. And he just said, you know, follow my lead. and that was it and it was just like that pop I mean there's a pop if you want to talk about an audience pop that I remember

was when I reversed it and the place went apes shit wow that's one that and I have watched it and Paulie's doing commentary and there's some line in there where he's like Spike Dudley can tell his grandkids

that he got a two count on Stone Cold Steve Austin and I love that line it's like yeah I got a two count on him What do you wish you had said to him in that promo? I just wish you, I don't know about the verbiage, but I followed the script that they wrote for me. I wish it had just been more kind of like natural from the heart.

I don't even remember what the guy. Yeah, I think it was just like, hey, like he was talking about this, his, what was it called? The thing that everybody signs. The petition. Yeah. And I just wish I had just,

called it from the heart versus, you know, versus following their script. Because I think that's one thing that Vince, he gives you the scripts and all that and says, do this, do this. But if you change the script and it works, he's not going to complain.

You know what I mean? So I just wish I had the balls to just do it my way versus their way. One of the spots that people always talk about with you, and you told the story last time you were on the show, but la resistance picks you up to power bomb you outside and they didn't get you up high enough. Yep. And it looks scary.

It was scary. Yeah. Definitely I should have broke my freaking neck with that one. But I didn't. It was to be, again, it was just, hey, another bump. Yeah, I mean, those guys were young. They were, it was at the end of the match. And I will say this.

they were pushed very hard and didn't have much experience. So if it had been something like it was just a promo and they picked me up, they throw me, and they're not blown or gassed or anything, it would have been no problem. But it was at the end of a match. And they just pushed instead of lift.

You know, it happens. I kind of, in a way, I feel bad for them. I think Renee shit on me. all over the place some recently about like I was a pussy or talk shit about them or something that. Look, you can call Spike Dudley a lot of names, but I don't think that's one of them. Yeah, well, it's something about like me being a weasel and talking about them or running the undertaker about stuff. And to me, it's just like, hey, if you had an issue with me, I was 140 pounds, come bitch slap me in the locker room like a man. Don't wait 20 years and go on the internet and

say that I talk bad about you. I mean, what the fuck? It's just crazy that you would call that just a normal spot. Yeah, you know, it was, well, it was, well, it was. Well, it was, for me, it was normal because I hit, beyond. So when I hit, my head chips the table. Yeah. And as crazy as it sounds, that breaks enough momentum where it was just a splat on the, the ground.

And it, I was fine. I mean, it really was. And it's too bad because they would, they, they, had hooked up Rob Conway with them. It was like Law Resistance at Rob Conway. Rob Conway was a great guy, great worker. I don't even know what his career turned into. But I loved working with Rob, but he got connected with them.

And then I don't know what happened since then. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It happens. I get it. It looks. I hate that that fuckups are like so memorable. you know what I mean like it if it if they'd thrown me through the table and it was an awesome

spot and that was like most memorable it's it's one thing but it's like no let's watch these guys screw up a spot and and put it on our all-time records of it's like come on it just look I think it's because it looks so devastating like it yeah that was another one from like the office point of view that I got mad at because they had me wrestle like the next week actually I think I wrestled Rob the next week. Rob Conway and they made me wear a neck brace. And I remember, and I think it was only for like Sunday Night Heat.

It wasn't even for Raw. And I think it was like Arne Anderson was the agent. And he was like, okay, you're wrestling with Rob with the neck brace. I just went, Arn, what the fuck? And Arn agreed with me. I was like, if I'm really hurt, like look at that bump. Like everybody thinks I'm crippled in a wheelchair. How can I be out here, you know, a week later, taking arm drags?

And he's just like, that's what the office wants. I think it just adds to the lore that is Spike Dudley. And with the, look at the legacy you've left in wrestling and the impact you've had on smaller guys. And it's, it's funny because you were such a small guy in the 90s. You wouldn't be that small of a guy now. Well, those guys are in shape. I had a couple of months where I was in shape. But no, if I open the doors to the smaller guys, that's great.

I just wish the smaller guys would wrestle as smaller guys and sell. That's what I get. I truly, I understand that I open the door, okay, you don't have to be six foot five and three hundred pounds to be a professional wrestling. That's great. I think that it's truly awesome. What I don't like about today's business is that everybody wrestles like they're Paul Kogan. If you're 175 pounds, you should not be able to pick up a 275 pound guy and body slam them.

If you're 275 pounds, you shouldn't be doing Frankensteiner's and all of that stuff on a guy 180 pounds, just because you can. And you can't because it's a work. it doesn't tell the story. Stay within the story. And if you don't tell the story, it doesn't mean anything. So, I mean, yeah, I think it's, it's good. I mean, if I did something to help progress the business, that's great.

I just wish my biggest thing, the reason why I think I was successful is I never tried to wrestle beyond what my physical, like what my limitations were, the, I don't think the audience ever saw me go, oh, he's trying to suplex Bubba. Never happened. Yeah. Because it never happened. Yeah. And I think that's what we're a lot that's lost in today's business.

And I don't want to knock today's business. It is what it is. It's successful. It's all over the place. I just don't understand it. With the legacy that you've left in wrestling, do you think you'll get inducted into the Hall of Fame one day? I have no idea. I don't really care.

that's not for me to decide. I mean, my body of work, I don't probably not. I would definitely disagree with the body of work that you've had. I think that it's a no-brainer. I guess it all depends on your criteria. All of the doors you open, like you're a pioneer. Well, I appreciate that. I do.

I do. But again, that's not for me to decide. I don't know how they figure out who's Hall of Fame or whatnot. You know what I mean? Was there talk of putting you in when the Dudley boys went in? I have no idea. I'm not around. You know what I mean?

Like I'm not there. You're kind of around now a little bit. Like you said, you were WrestleMania 40. Well, and again, I think that was just because they were in Philadelphia and they wanted to do some things at ECW at the arena.

I really have not been in touch with anybody that's in the office. You know, who's there now? Hunter's in charge. Stephanie. I haven't spoken to them since I left. I don't know. I have no idea. I'm not, I don't, it's not that huge of a deal to me. I mean, it would be, I guess it would be cool. I have, I mean, I wouldn't say no, but I've never considered myself as a Hall of Famer. So I don't, whatever. I, that's, I'm not. Have they approached you about a Legends deal or are you on a Legends deal? I don't even know what that means. Amazing. I guess no.

No, what is that? What do you mean? You're brought in for appearances. They can use your likeness for new action figures. They can use your likeness in video games. Well, they own the whole spike. They can do whatever they want, to be honest. But I think you'd have to, I mean, if they used it, I'm sure you'd have to get some sort of a. I have no idea.

I'll be honest. Let's just say, no, I don't know. Because apparently I have not. So, but that's, as I said, it's fine. When I walked away, I walked away. And when I did walk away, especially from the WWE, I, I don't. I was, I was a bitter douchebag. I was angry when they let me go.

Were you angry at them? Yeah. Yeah, very angry. Were you angry at you figuring you could have done more? A little bit of both. I was angry because I had had conversations with the office going, Okay, I've been here for four or five years, and I know I can't be on TV forever. I'd like to move to the back office trainer, and it was told, we love you.

Yes, absolutely. And then I was told you're released. Well, what about, you know, the training or behind the scenes? No. Now, had I kept my mouth shut, I was even offered a few months later when I was, you know, when they brought ECW back, that first thing, they offered me to come back for that, whatever it was, a battle royal or something, the initial thing. But TNA had already offered me a contract.

And I accepted it. And to me, it's like, okay, I signed with TNA. I can't do the WWE thing. But then I kind of shit on. I was like, oh, they're going to ask me to come back. And I was vocal about, I was just, I was just a pouty pussy about a lot of it. But in the world of wrestling, guys come, they go, they're fire, the release. I took it really personally and reacted like a, like a douche.

And I don't know if anybody there holds resentment against me. I don't know. I haven't spoken to any of them. And I don't know if that's significant or not. And I don't know, again, it comes to Hall of Fame. I wouldn't induct me to the Hall of Fame, but. Well, I would. And so would everybody else.

And that's a lot of self-awareness and maturity to go, I messed up back then. I certainly did. I really did. But I'll be honest, again, I look back on all of the bad decisions I made towards the end of my career. Had I not made those bad decisions, I would not have a family and a real job. and a life, I would have been still on the road and probably. So I'm glad I made those bad decisions.

I'm sorry if I insulted anybody. It wasn't my, well, at the time, it probably was my intention, but I look back on it, I would regret now. But it all works out. Yeah, it's funny how life works out like that. Yeah. That if this thing doesn't happen, it can't lead to that thing there. Right, right.

Thank you for making this happen. Well, you are very welcome. You, sir, are a legend. And I appreciate you taking the time. By the way, Spike came with bagels. I did. You were like, Providence bagels. You're like, I'm going to arrive with some bagels.

Which one would you like? What happened to my Guinness? Oh, this is a whole other story. That's horrible again. It's too early. I tried to Uber eats them last night. I guess you can't do alcohol delivery in Rhode Island. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. It said that I was trying to order something that couldn't be delivered across state lines. State lines. Like, okay. It wasn't like firearms or anything. So then I tried to go to 7-Eleven this morning to get you a Guinness.

You didn't need it. Because last interview, you were drinking a beer the whole time. Right, but it was also like 5 o'clock in the afternoon. It's 10 in the morning. You're wearing a nice bucket hat in the last one. 7-Eleven doesn't sell it here? Is that they don't sell them in convenience stores here? Rhode Island, yeah, no, you got to go to a liquor store.

They don't do beer and it's okay. You are forgiven. I'm so sorry. It's okay. Honestly, no, no, no. I was just, I was laughing about that. I brought the bagels, but he didn't bring me in it. But I will end this asking you the question that I ask everybody at the end.

Gratitude is such a massive central focus of my life. I wake up every day saying out loud the three things that I'm grateful for. Focusing those things I have in my life rather than focusing the things I don't have. I do it before I go to bed with my wife too. What are three things in your life right now, Matt, that you're grateful for? My wife, my kids, and our combined health. That's really, you know, if my family is healthy and progressing, then we're in good shape.

My wife has been my savior. from everything. So extremely grateful for her. And my kids are just fucking awesome. You didn't hear that. No, MJ. I didn't say the F word. It is pretty amazing

with everything you've done in your career that you're not walking with a limp, that you're not hunched over. Well, I don't want to extend the interview anymore, but I hit the wall this year. I had a knee surgery six months ago. I had some blood clots in my other lungs.

leg, they found torn rotator cuff. Like this year has been my year of injury or everything catching up to me, but I'm still walking, talking, nothing's, we're okay. Well, thank you again. My pleasure. Thank you. There we go. What a legend and such a tough dude.

And also a humble dude. Ah, man, no, I'm not a legend. I don't think I should be inducted in the Hall of Fame. That makes him even more of a legend. So big thank you to Spike, to Matt, for joining us in Rhode Island for this interview. And thank you for listening to this and for listening all the way until the end. As I mentioned in the intro, Spike doesn't have social media. So snap a screenshot and tag me so I can share it out.

I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And I love this quote from Jimmy Buffett. It's from the song Barefoot Children, which feels so applicable in my life right now. But man, this is such a great quote. Rinkles will only go where the smiles have been. I love that. Be great and be grateful. My friends, we will see you on the next one for some more insight.

Roxanne Perez, the prodigy, joins us on Thursday. We'll see you right back here for that one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock?

I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley.

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