Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Steve Blackman: The Lethal Weapon, Shane McMahon Fall, JBL Airport Fight, Hardcore Title, Brawl For All

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Steve Blackman is a retired professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Harrisburg, PA to discuss being known as one of the toughest wrestlers in the locker room, becoming seriously ill and coming very close to dying before he signed with WWE, his match with Shane McMahon at SummerSlam 2000 and McMahon's fall, showing his comedic side with Al Snow as part of Head Cheese, the real story behind his fight with JBL at an airport in St. Louis, being a part of the infamous Brawl For All tournament, what he is doing now, whether a WWE return could be possible and more!   Quote I'm thinking about: "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving." – Albert Einstein   Please support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux  SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Download the Rocket Money app and enter “Insight With Chris Van Vliet” in the survey   HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.comMIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. And here we go. Welcome back, my friends, to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for hitting play specifically on this episode. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit that follow button with a Kendo stick. Wherever you're listening, yeah, a Kendo stick.

And please, if you haven't done, done so already, could you leave a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcasts? I don't ask for much. In fact, I don't ask for really anything ever. I don't have a Patreon or anything like that. If you could just click a button, if you could click the follow button and then click the rating, that's it. In exchange for that, I will continue to line up conversations like this one that we have for you today. The lethal weapon, Steve Blackman, is on the show. And I can't stress. enough how rare of an interview this is. From all of the research that I've done, I believe the last interview that Steve Blackman did was in 2007, 18 years ago with RF video. I can't believe we tracked

him down for this. What an attitude era legend, what a legend just in general. And one of the most requested guests we've ever had on the show. And if you ask anybody that he ever worked with, he's one of the toughest WWE superstars of all time. He now has a bail bondsman. company in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And other than appearing in the Battle Royal on the 15th anniversary show for Raw, he hasn't wrestled since 2001. But the answer to the question that you are asking your head right now, the answer is yes. Yes, he is still tough his nails.

Yes, he could still beat you up. And yes, he is in phenomenal shape at 61 years old. There's so much to cover with him. We talk about his iconic match with Shane McMahon at SummerSlam 2000, holding the hardcore title longer than anybody else being part of brawl for all, head cheese, his near-death experience before signing with WWE, and so much more. Snap a screenshot and tag us. Actually, Steve Blackman is not on social media, so you can't tag him.

And I mean, think about it. He doesn't really seem like the kind of guy to have social media, right? But tag me. I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and let's dive into this. Please welcome the lethal weapon, Steve Black. You've been so busy today already. As we were just setting up for this interview, your phone must have rang like 15 times or something.

I get a lot of calls with bail bonds. Yeah. So tell people that might not know. What are you doing now? Well, after I got out of wrestling, I had an MMA school. I had that for about 13 years. And then once my kids were born, I just didn't have the time for that. But I had also started a bail bonds business two years or three years after the MMA started.

So I've been focusing on my bail bonds business for the last 17 years. years now. So if someone needs bail, you come in and you put it up. Is that how this works? Yeah, they pay a percent. You put up enough assets to write a certain amount of bails or you write through an insurance company and they licensed you to do a certain amount of bails. But I mean, when I first started, it was all on your own. Then the insurance companies got involved half, you know, six years ago and don't even get me started on that. That kind of screwed everything up. But nevertheless, like, I'm fortunate in Harrisburg because I know everybody at MMA school here at Bail Bonds business. I've lived here many years, so I get a lot of bailes

out of this county. And if they don't pay bail, you go and break their legs? Well, we're supposed to go track them down. And in the beginning, that's actually why I started the bail business. When I had the MMA school, there's fighters of mine, which I had dozens and dozens of fighters, they're always broke. So they're like, Black, man, what can we do to make some money? I'm like, let me think on it. So I came up with, well, let's start doing bounty hunting. So when I did my homework and I saw, well, you know what, I can put up more money and make a lot more money doing bails than I can just tracking people down. Plus, I don't feel like sitting there and staring somebody's house for a week either. So that's how that came about. I can't imagine being

chased down by Steve Blackman. Well, in the beginning, I don't hold me to it, but this number's close. In the first few years, I took in 88 guys myself and my other bounty hunters took in the same number. It was like funny because we took in almost the exact same number together. 176 guys we took it in the first three years. That's just brutal. Then you start learning how to get better co-signers, more co-signers, get people to post bails that own something, have something to lose. So if the person doesn't show up, you go after them for it or you just hound them until they turn the person in. What is your actual discipline in MMA? Well, I did multiple things. I did. I did karate and boxing through high school and when I, in college,

I was playing baseball college and stuff, but I still did boxing and karate there. I did a few years of wrestling. I always focused on submission wrestling. Even when I was in Japan, we started doing submission wrestling, and I was in 87. And then when I was in Canada, I remember dining my kid going over some certain submissions with me. And after that, I just started getting more and more into it and just kept doing submission stuff like that every chance I got.

And then when Judiciary became popular, when you took off in UFC with Gracie's and those guys, then I just started doing it different schools and buddy of mine that had schools and stuff like that and just kept I started doing more jiu-jitsu than anything because I had so many years of boxing and karate and stuff in. Are you a black belt? Oh yeah, I've black belt and a couple different styles. You're like, of course I am. Well, I don't mean that in that fashion, but I mean, in a couple styles of the karate I was,

when I did the jiu-jitsu, I was doing it everywhere. And I did belts for Shodakhan, belts for Ishener and stuff like that. I'm like, I just didn't want to go for the belts anymore. So I would go in like three nights a week, I'd go to my one buddy school and do Jits there. Then I'd go to another school, I'd just go around and do Jits everywhere. And then once I started Miami-May school, I mean, we're in Pennsylvania. This is like amateur wrestling capital. So when I opened my school, I had 15, 10-year wrestlers in there right off the bat.

When you're wrestling with those guys every day and some of them were, you know, heavy weights and stuff like that, I'd be on the mat with those guys constantly, you know, getting them ready for the matches. and stuff, so it keeps you sharp, the more, you know, just doing it over and over. Do you think your career would have looked different if UFC was a big thing in the, that you have seen, if UFC even existed in the 80s? Probably.

I would have loved or have done it and I would have even liked to have done it when I was in WWF. I just had so many neck issues. I was so tired of having migraines every other day that it wasn't the fact of going out there and fighting. I'm not being funny, but like any of us can go out there and just go balls to the wall for a minute and bang, you know, bang.

It's just being able to train properly. And every time I'd go out and train for a couple days hard by headaches, my neck would hurt, even roll with the guys in my school, I would roll hard with them the whole time. But I tell them, let's avoid the guillotine for this match and we'll go for everything else just because it would kill my neck all the time, you know. Did you look into it when you were in WWF? I had talked to Shamrock about it and stuff before. And, you know, he had said that someone inquired to him about it, you know,

see if I wanted to come out there and do it. And I did desperately, especially the days, like if I had a day where my neck didn't feel bad and, you know, I mean, I'm banging cardio up that day and stuff. It's like, man, I'd like to get out there and do that. But it just didn't work out. I mean, I had neck issues. So when some of the toughest guys in WWE, like Ken Shamrock or Hardcore Holly or Kurt Engel are saying that you are the toughest guy, that says a lot about you.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I will say this. there's a lot of tough guys in WWF. When you look at the size and speed of most of the guys, most guys that played football, wrestled, have that athletic ability. Most of them have the ability to hold their own. It's just, you know, how hard they want to go.

One thing with me I always had in my head, like when they say that, I never cared who it was. If there's a problem, I don't care who you are, we're going to go. And that's just the way I've always looked at it. What do you mean? I mean, it's just go time. If you don't like me and I have a problem with you, we'll do it every single day.

I mean, well, I just don't care. So that's just how it was. So you'll just throw down. Throw down, yep. All right, who was with me? It happens, you know, it's happened before. But that's one thing, no matter who it is, I don't care. If you got a problem, just walk up, lace her shoes up and let's go.

So you look like you could still go. Thanks. I mean, my kids are young. I started late. My kids are 13, 17. So I do. I train all the time. My son's 13. I train with him all the time. My daughter trains constantly. She plays volleyball year-round. So I do my, I do sprints. I work out all the time. I do that with my son and stuff like that. So because I'm so much older than them, I do it for that

reason as well, trying to stay in shape and be around as long as I can for them. You're 61? I'll be 62 in September and I don't like it. You look amazing, though. I appreciate that. You look like you could go and have another hardcore match. Sometimes I feel good like, especially after my second neck operation, I don't have those headaches all day every day where I sit there and just do this because I had, I had like four bone spurs digging in nerves in my necks or every time I'd land or move, there was like pencil points digging in. So once I had those removed, I wouldn't sit there all, you know, I sit there all day just trying to find a spot where I could sit in where it wasn't jagging me. So now that that's been fixed, you know, some days I feel good. I'm like, man, I could go out there and do a couple matches. You know, I mean, I crosses my mind sometimes.

Did you see this comment, the Rock left on one of your recent photos? I did not. So there was a photo of you, you know, looking as jacked as you are now. And the Rock says, holy shit, he looks incredible. Not surprised. Steve always took great care of himself and super good dude who I liked a lot. That's cool. Rock and I got along when I was in there.

I mean, we hung out, we didn't hang out for extensive periods of time. Went out to dinner a couple times when you were in England, things like that. But, you know, we always got along, always joked around, busted each other's balls, stuff like that. Like, I think an unknown fact here is you have a lot of wins over the rock. That's great. That's great. Yeah. Yeah, when I first went in there, I had a long battle with the, what's a group rock was with?

nation of domination with a nation so you know mark henry forouk rock dello godfather all those guys so it was that was a long run there and uh you know those guys were over such good heels that it was great working against them as a good guy because you get just so many pops when you'd beat them to you know get on them because uh like said they made it easier because they were just hated at that time and then rock you know it just became popular good guy, bad guy, whatever, became very charismatic and great on the mic, but I loved my angle with those guys. People think that your WWE debut was Attitude Era.

Like you coming in out of the crowd as a fan during that Vader match, people forget about what you did in the 80s as a wrestler. Well, it's funny. I mean, I started wrestling in 86 in wrestling school in Connecticut. I was there for about a year, and then I went to Japan, spent six. six weeks over there. I mean, I went, but I mean, it was still green, so to speak, because I had just done small promotion matches all across Connecticut and those places. I wrestle in Eastern Canada for four months where you wrestle every day of the, every day you're there for four months.

And I had been in contact with Owen because in Japan, I said, Owen, I said, oh, and what do I have to do to do to get to WWF? He goes, you need to come to Calgary, wrestle with us up there and my dad and polish up. So after that four months run in Eastern Canada, Owen got me over there. with his father and that's where I wrestled. And when I say every day, you wrestle every day. You don't have days off. And I don't remember having a day off period. We did have one, but his brother's being rivers like him scheduled us in a charity wheelchair race three hours from Calgary and we all wanted to kill him. So that was our one day off. I'll never forget it because we were so mad. And I was up there with Pilman, Benoit, Gary Albright. He wrestled. He wrestled.

up there. Norman the lunatic was Mike Shaw. Mike was up there. British Bulldogs were with us for six months because they were taking a break from WWF at that time. This was 88. And so we had a hell of a crew up there back then. So I mean, and we'd wrestle long matches and, you know, nonstop moving. And it's funny because when I finished up up there and I was starting with WWF, I was supposed to start with them in 89. And I said to the office, I said, I told this guy I'd wrestle for in Africa. I gave my word that I come down there for three weeks. And they said, we'll just go ahead, start with this when you get back. So for me to keep my word, I went down there, became deathly ill, came home, long story short, spent five and a half years ago I got better. I was two and a half

years on my deathbed, another two and a half years on medicine. What was it? Well, they said I probably had dysentery and malaria. It was so bad. When I landed in Africa on Thursday, I weighed 267. The next Thursday, when I left the hospital, and Gary Albright helped me get to a flight and finally make my way home, I weighed 232. Oh my gosh. I was 35 pounds lighter in six days because it was actually landed on Thursday, but I started getting sick Friday. And it was insane.

And it felt like I sand in my mouth. I had to carry drinks everywhere I went. I thought I was going to die from just complete dehydration, which is pretty much where you die from with dysentery. It's one under the other. Yes. Just nonstop. I drink, go.

drink, go, drinko. I went through IV bag after IV bag. I said to Gary, he came to the hospital. I'm like, Gary, you got to get me out of here. I said, I'm going to die here. I mean, I can't keep anything down here. Well, he got me to the Johannesburg airport. Well, once I flew from Johannesburg, I mean, I was not in Johannesburg yet.

I was down, I was in Durban, South Africa. I flew from Durban to Johannesburg. Well, once I got there, I had to wait for a ticket from home to come through. It came through 15 minutes before my. flight left or I'd have been stuck in Johannesburg with nothing. And that came through. Then I, don't hold me to the exact hours, five-hour flight to Kenya. We get to Kenya. We had a nine-hour layover on the runway with the doors open. It was 120 degrees and no air conditioning. And I'm like feeling like I'm dying every second. All I do is keep grabbing every soda in a bottle of water I can do

and drink, drink, drink. Then we leave from Kenya and we fly to Amsterdam. We get to Amsterdam. I have like a 12-hour layover. I'm laying on the floor. I just crawl into the bathroom, crawl out, crawl in the bathroom. They took me in the medical station in that small airport, and they're like,

we're not going to let you fly. I said, look, dude, I don't have anything contagious. If I'm going to die, I'm going to die in the States. I'm not going to make my parent, my family come halfway around the world to retrieve me anywhere.

I'm getting home. So they let me get on the plane. I flew to New York. I had a five-hour layover. I'll never forget. Some kid was wheeled me off in a wheelchair. I don't even know what money I had in my pocket. I don't even know what.

currency it was. I just went like that, gave him. I said, get me as much to drink as he can in some to eat. He comes back with a big bottle of water, some juice. I don't know what I remember what it was. I was delirious. I remember he had, he brought me a sub. I hate the whole sub and drank the water. And I sat there for five, ten minutes. I'm like, it stayed in my stomach. That's the first time in seven and a half, eight days. Now I actually kept something in there. And so I fly from there to Harrisburg. I go to the doctor and all that. Now I wait 232 that next day at the hospital, but you got to remember now I've eaten and drank stuff while I'm at home before I even got to the doctor the next day. I might have been lighter than that, but it was pure hell. And then I

was just sick for years. And then eventually, I finally started getting better. And I went and Saul Vincent. That's how I got back in. Did you actually think during that that you were going to die? There were many nights where I went to bed where I felt so sick. Like, they're giving an example. Like, if I, I try to do push-ups one day. I do like as many push-ups as I could for one set. I would literally stand up, crawl, or lay down, and sleep until the next day. Like, it was so debilitating.

I couldn't even function because it turned into some sort of infection in my intestinal tract after I got over that stuff. And it just lingered and lingered until it was one doctor figured it out. When did you turn the corner? When did it start getting better? I saw a doctor that was in Talson, Maryland. I don't think he's alive anymore because this was 89. And I went to him and I said, we have to try something here.

You're the 10th doctor I've been to. And I said, I'm going to tell you. I said, I don't have much left in me. I said, I'm so tired. I can't read a book. I can't work out. I can't function. I can't do anything.

He said, well, here's the gimmick. He said, I'm going to give you some medicine to try. He goes, I think you've developed this candideon. your stomach from taking so many antibiotics and having dysentery and all this, because they, like, they take blood work on me and it would show, oh, he's an alcoholic. Why, I never drank, never drink. You know, then another one has showed it, it looks like it'd have hepatitis. I didn't have hepatitis.

So it's because the infection was that bad. It kept showing different things. Anyway, he goes, take this medicine and we'll take your blood work. Why didn't want him to say, oh, I'm getting better? And so I tell you what, I'll take the medicine, but I'm having my doctor at home take my blood work. He did six weeks later. He goes, it is a little better. So I stayed on the medicine.

We took it about three months later. He goes, it's better again. So I talked to the doctor, he goes, well, the bad news is it's going to take you as long to get rid of it as you had it. How'd you like to hear that? I've been sick for two and a half years. I've been medicine for three months. And he was right.

Finally, after about five years, I woke up one morning. I open my eyes. I'm like, my God, I can see clearly. I mean, I could actually see clearly. I could think clearly. And I'm like, my God, it's the first time in five years. And that was it. I said, I'm going back to the gym.

Went right back to the gym started. But it was, it wasn't easy going at first because my stamina was saying, even when I went back into WWF, my stamina, I trained hard, but like in my head, I'd still get goofy head and entire stuff. My stamina wasn't good for about a year after being in there. It was rough. But I would just keep fighting through it. So from you getting sick in 89, how long was it till Vince gave you another chance in

WWA? It was somewhere around 95, 96. I went and saw them, they were wrestling in Bethlehem. And I walked in and I was talking with Pilman and Davey Boy and those guys because I knew them all from Canada. Pilman was my roommate up there. And, you know, they were talking to me back and forth and stuff. And I'm like, where's Vince?

And I went in and talked to Vince. And Vince is like, when's the last time you were in the ring? I'm like, Vince, it was like five and a half, six years ago. He goes six years ago. I said, Vince, look, I said, I have a ring at home. I said, I'm working out every day. I've been training every day. I said, all I ask is, you give me a match.

I said, if you don't like it, just look me in the eye and go, Steve, I don't like it. And I won't ever bug you again. He said, okay. So him, Pat Patterson was like the middleman with this and stuff. He would sit in there. So then I started dealing with me. Pat Patterson, he kind of arranged it, got me a match. And Vince came up to me after the match.

He goes, I liked it. Who was it with? Who was it with? It was with one of the guys from Canada. There was a dark match. I can't remember which one, what the guy's name was. But it impressed Vince enough to go, all right. It did.

Stick around. I said, okay, so what's the next step? He goes, well, I want you to go to the developmental. league and wrestle with the young boys for two weeks, polish up a little bit and we'll put you back on the road. Well, that's as good as it gets. Yeah. So I went down there. What's funny, I get down there. Mark Henry was there. He's in there for two weeks with me. Even Mark Miro was there for two weeks and stuff like that. But it's like, it's a lot of wrestling and a lot of working out. I'm like, oh, it's like all day. But, you know, I can understand where he was coming from. I get it. Go down there,

polish up for those couple weeks and then come back. But it's funny because when I left Canada, I could run an hour match with Benoit, those guys, we would run our match and blow the roof off. And then after six years, I just mentally didn't have the same edge. When you wrestle every day and twice on Saturdays and twice on Sundays and you're doing at least 20-minute matches every time your mind clicks. And so it took a little while to get that back too. And so it worked out. I can always say this.

I thought half of what I did in there was good and half of it was okay. okay, you know, I do what I could under the circumstances, but I was fortunate that he took me back. You don't think any of your work was great? I thought some of it. I mean, I say good. I mean, I thought some of it was pretty good. I felt good. Like, I loved the hardcore aspect of it when I did those for a year because I could use all my weapons and stuff. Even some of the matches, like, when I had that angle with the nation in the beginning, I think it was getting, it was going well, getting over well. Even my tag matches with Al, got over well. And even with Brian Christopher toward the end, it was going well.

And then, you know, supposed to have a run with the belts for the next year. And then he screwed up and got fired. But overall, you know, it worked out all right. Shopping for a car should be exciting, not exhausting. But between misleading prices and hidden fees, it can feel like a maze. That's where car gurus comes in. They rank the best deals, verified dealers, and make sure you never pay more than you should. Your big deal just became a great deal.

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Car Gurus.com The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster.

There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Henko. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Who came up with the name, The Lethal Weapon? I started using that when I was. up in Canada.

And so I used that for a while and then came down. And then when I started doing the sticks, when I was my entrance, it kind of. What are those sticks called? Well, some people call them a screama Filipino sticks, you know, either one. So, um, but I started doing routines with those. And then I would use a Kendo stick in the matches or the numtucks, stuff like that.

So it was, it was fun doing that. It's a great nickname. Like, you're at the point where you, I mean, you could kill someone with your bear hands, which is insane. Is it a thing where you have to like register your hands? It's not a thing? You know what gets me with that? I mean, I get that. You see that in a lot of movies and stuff, but I'm going to tell you, most of those big guys in there that are athletic that can throw good punches. If you're athletic, you can usually throw a good punch. You know, I mean, if you drill somebody straight in the chin, the throat or something, they're going to be just as deadly as

somebody else. Maybe not have, you know, be able to slip as well or hit you as often, but they can certainly land one or two good bombs, you know, like that. But there's legendary stories. I think Hardcore Holly was recently telling a story about like how you know all these pressure points. Like you could drop a man just like with one finger. Well, I mean, there are pressure points, but no matter what, I've always said this since I've been younger and fighting and stuff, there is nothing like a good right hand

right in the mouth. And that's just the way it is. I teach to teach my guys all the time at them in May school. If you're getting leg kicked, he eats. right hand, you know, and no matter what, Landa hit that chin to stay on that chin. If he has great feet, take his feet away, close the gap, make it hand to hand and hit that chin. And I used to focus on that.

Was this something that was always in you? Like, did you get into a lot of fights as a kid? Some, but I don't know. I mean, I could always throw. I mean, I had my parents, by me there was punching bags when I was younger and stuff. And I always seemed to be into it. And, you know, then in high school, I wrestled in junior, high-end stuff, did baseball and football. I just needed a break soon between baseball and football

instead of finishing wrestling through high school, I started doing karate because there was a couple nights a week. And then I just kept doing it after that and then started taking boxing with it. And like I said at college, I did karate and boxing and just doing whatever I could, whenever I could. When you have this reputation for being a tough guy, are there people that try to test you in WWE? Well, there are people that try to test you in wrestling and olive wrestling. And like, I can give you examples with numerous guys to wrestle with that went through that. You know, I mean, one guy tested Shamrock, Shamrock dropped him, he gets sued. Another guy tested British Bulldog, just harassing his wife for 15 minutes.

Finally, Davey Boy drops the guy on his head. And then, you know, then he, they're looking for him to arrest him and sue him. And, you know, their wives were just being hounded. And, you know, I think Big Show was tested out of a hotel one time, dropped the guy. I think they're, this I didn't see, this I heard. that, you know, a guy just wouldn't leave Malone, wouldn't leave Malone, and finally a big show dropped them. But they had a tape of that one, and he got out of it.

That I heard through a couple of the other guys, the one with Bulldog and Shamrock. I mean, I rode with those guys all the time, so I know. But it does. I mean, people would test you. I walk into the Cleveland Arena one day, and I don't know who it was. Your guy was seven feet tall. I'm just walking in to go to locker. He's like, I think I can take you.

I never even saw the guy in my life. I dropped my gym back. I said, let's go. And, you know, and I'm like, is this guy a basketball player or something? I don't know who he was. And, but that's just, that's all people are, you know, and it's like, as soon as it doesn't go their way and they get cracked, oh, now they want to sue you. Well, then don't start it to begin with.

You know, I mean, I've had people come up to me and start mouth and say, look, dude, just sign a waiver and we'll go, you know, I mean, so. What happened with the seven footer? He walked away. Ah, of course. So if everybody has you at the top of the list for being the toughest guy in, you know, WWE. Who's on your list? I think to me there's a lot of tough guys in there because like I said, when you're a big guy and you can move, you can usually throw a good punch and you're usually

not that easy just to, you know, tie up with and take down. They can usually fight back pretty well. But I mean, obviously when Ken was younger, he would bang with anybody. Even when Seven was in with us for a while, I mean, Dan never had fast hands. her feet, but he was tough on the ground. Anybody that has 100 cage fights has a set on him because you got to have a lot in you to go through 100 cage fights. But even when you look at Taker and Kane and Faroo, a lot of those guys, all of those guys were athletic and they're big guys.

So they can move, they can throw. You know, I mean, obviously, you know, Kurt, Kurt's a hell of a wrestler. You know, he was great at, you know, the best in the world at one time at that. Well, you even look at a lot of the other guys in there. I mean, you know, obviously Brock, you know. But most of the guys in there have a pretty hardcore attitude. So I think most of them can hold their own pretty well. Were you there at the same time as Barack?

No, he was coming in when I was going. Right. When people think of the hardcore title, you're one of the names that immediately pops another head. And I think you are the, I think you held the hardcore title for the most amount of time. What did that run mean to you? That was fun for me because at that point in time, I wasn't sure what was going to won and that just kind of came about as a fluke. They just put me out there one night because

something happened with the other match. And the hardcore went over well. And it was like, it just felt like my niche at that time. And then we just started rolling with it. And I think I fought just about everybody in the company in those hardcore matches. I mean, I fought, you know, Edge, Christian, Kane, Ben, and I fought everybody in those hardcore matches. I mean, I had fun with that. What was your favorite weapon to use? I didn't mind them. I always focused on my sticks just because I could do a lot with them. And I would like doing the routines with the numtucks too.

But it was just easier to crack people with my sticks than the numtucks and not hit them straight. Because of numtucks, I'd strike differently. But it was fun. Even my Kendo stick, I would do a lot of finishes off the top cracking them with that. So it was fun. I used to use that garbage can lid and do spinning back fists with that. and I mean, we try to be creative, you know, because that crowd out there has seen everything. So, you know, you just try to keep being creative, keep moving, and keep entertaining.

Your kicks were so impressive. It was like you had, I don't know, it was like straight out of like John Claude Van Dam, like one of his movies. Thanks. I mean, it's just years, you know, just years of doing them. I mean, there was a time where I would, I would throw a hundred shin kicks a day with each leg. And I did that for years. It's just as fast and as hard as I could go. So, you know, I would shin kick sprawl, shin kick sprawl, shin kick sprawl, you know, shin kick sprawl shoots.

You know, I would just do them over and over and over. So, you know, just, you know, you do it enough times. You'll get fast at it. SummerSlam 2000. What was the original plan for this match with Shane McMahon? That was pretty much the plan, I think. I don't remember much being discussed differently than what we did. I do know that like most people don't realize it was rare that I'd go out there and

and talk about the match and stuff in the ring before we go out and do it. I didn't go. I mean, I'd talk about it. Walk through it. Like I didn't really walk through much with people. That when there was a rare when we went out there to go up to the Titan Tron and we actually climbed up and like, that's high. and the worst thing was there was nothing on the floor from like the Titan Tron till like you're

seven feet, eight feet away. Then there was a mat the size of a bed way way out here. And I'm like, he's going to land on that backwards from up there. What if he falls straight down? And this one guy go to this guy. He's like, if he just steps back and falls this way, he'll land out there. I'm like, you're kidding me, right? I said, well, that's insane to me. And so he said, okay, we'll do it. He didn't drop, but he said, okay, he'll do that. And I said, all right. So we get up there next day, I hit him with my stick, and he drops,

well, I'm supposed to drop an elbow on him. And I'm like, I have two feet to land there. How am I going to drop an elbow on this guy from 50 or 60 feet, whatever we were? I shimmied down. I might have still been 25 feet up. So I shimmyed down halfway and jumped from there. and landed, but what happened is overnight, somebody encased the mat with three-quarter-inch plywood around it. So if you have a limb sticking out, it's just going to snap off. So I had to land

right there, drop an elbow on him and try not to completely pancake him. And so I landed there, hit him with the elbow and pulled it off. But, you know, the rest of the, even in the, during the match, though, and win the ring, like our runners would grab props anywhere. And sometimes he were real street signs, I'd be like, guys, where are you grabbing this stuff? This is a real street sign. Well, don't ask Steve. I'm like, so he gets out there. He hit me with a street sign one time. If you watched that match, I felt like it ripped the nose off my face. That metal thing just went peeling right down my face. I thought, holy hell. And, you know, then Tesson Albert interfered. We mean, you know, we had a good match. You know, everybody was getting beat on in that one.

But who came up with the idea for Shane to climb up the tron? Well, it had to be him. I don't think it was his dad. It had to be Shane. And I never forget, we were out there going over it and talking about it. I'm like, out cracking, cracking, cracking. But the worst part was, like, I was so sweaty from the match for 15 minutes. About trying to hold onto those bars, I was just drenched in sweat.

I can't worry about slipping and dropping. So that's why I stopped where I did, held the bar, and then cracked him, because I just kept sweating so bad. And we were out there. I'll never fayette, Vince is like, you need to get that stick out of the way. If you crack me in your sticks here and he drops, he's gonna, I said, you know, why?

You're right. So it's good you thought of that. I had to crack me, make sure I got the stick out of the way so he didn't land on it and flip or something like that. But you know, you just think of, it hits me because you think of crazy little things like that that you win most of the time.

What are you guys saying to each other up there? We didn't say anything. I just crack, crack, crack, crack. and there he goes. Everybody remembers Shane falling backwards. And it's an insane visual to see him just falling straight back. Right. A lot of people forget that after that, you then drop an elbow on him.

Yeah. Well, I mean, he dropped twice the distance. I had a narrow area to land in. And even at that 25 feet I was at, that's still hard to land right in that spot. And I don't give or take. I could have been 28 feet. 30 feet, I could have been 22. I don't know, but I'm guessing somewhere around. It's high. Yep. And, uh, but yes, he overshadowed it with the way, with what, the way he dropped.

But I thought the match was pretty good. We did a lot of, we hit hard in that match. We hit with all the weapons, hard in that match and stuff like that and took hard bumps. And, you know, so I thought, I thought it went well. I love that match. Did either of you get hurt from that spot? No. And it's amazing because we've done so many other. things that you get hurt on that don't look anything like that. Yeah. Oh, I never forget one time one of the guys got kicked right between the legs. I mean, punted. And he dropped and couldn't breathe. And there's some jackass in the front row yell and he didn't even hit him. He punted him up. He hit him so hard. He couldn't even breathe. You know, and just stupid stuff like that. But like Shane has done some

crazy stuff. Yes. But that with you at SummerSlam is at the top of the list. It is. And he has done some crazy stuff. And, you know, some of the guys would be like, why is Vince letting his son do this stuff? Why is Shane doing the stuff? And I'm like, the only thing I can come up with is you lead by example and they're trying to raise the bar and he's raised it. So is it that do you think he was just trying to impress his dad? Um, I, I didn't look at it that way. Um, I looked at at maybe trying to impress the guys, the wrestlers or show he can do it. But regardless, when you're the owner's son and you're setting a bar like that like everybody's busting butt out there because like I said lead by example yeah you can't do much better than that so I always got along with

Shane I did plus I mean he actually moved well he actually had some karate training moitai training he can actually throw his hands at fee well he decent size good size guy you know so you need to have matched with him what's the story behind brawl for all how was it originally pitched to you roll of the eyes all right I'm at home on one of my days off. The office calls me. And they go, we're having this bra for all. And it's a real fight.

We wear boxing gloves and you can do whatever you want. I thought it was just somebody in the office ribbing me because you got to remember, those wrestlers do nothing but rib each other. So I'm like, yeah, sure we are. And then Bruce Pritcharder, I think it was a call. He's like, Steve, we're having a brawl for all and you can do whatever. I said, let me get this straight. We're going to have a bra for all.

I can kit, shoot, punch, knee, elbow, head. And they're like, yep, I said, what's a prize? And they said, well, you get like an extra five grand a week and then the prize the end, whatever it was. And I said, well, I don't believe you, but go ahead and sign me up. I didn't believe him. I thought the whole thing's a real. I thought it was one of the guys playing a joke.

So we get to the next TV. I haven't trained. I haven't trained for this in, you know, in a while. And I never forget we get there. and they're like, you're fighting Miro tonight for the bra for all. I'm like, this thing's real. Then like, okay, so we go out in the ring and there were 16 of us in it. And, you know, we're going over the different things we could do.

And I said, well, he told me I'm allowed to kick when he called me. And when we were out in the ring, Vince is like, well, what kind of kick do you mean? And I should have thought faster. I stood there and, you know how like in the MMA, most of us do hard shin kicks, fast, hard shin kicks. I flew with one. And Vince is like, no, no. And Bratel's like, there's no way we're taking those, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm thinking, why didn't I just do a slow side kick or front kick or something just slower? I went out there and flew with it because I was warmed up. And I'm like, oh, so now they insisted no kicking because I'm the only one out of 16 that wants to kick. Well, there's no knees. There were no elbows. There's no head, butch.

It's a boxing match. with takedowns. So they put me against Mark, who in just boxing, Mark was probably the best boxer in there. Yeah. He won, I think he won New York Golden Gloves five years. So like, great. So we go out there and they said, what are you going to do? So I'm going to take him down every 10 seconds. Well, if you count it, I took him down 13 times in three minutes. But the one though, I shot, I threw a jab shot, threw a jab shot. The third or fourth time I threw the jab. I faked the shot and it came over top with a bomb. He was pretty quick. He ended up dropping his chin just a hair because I caught him here and his feet staggered or whatever I thought I caught him on the

chin, a couple of inches lower out. It dropped him. But it was funny because his gloves were massive, brand new. It was like wearing mittens like this to box with. I'm like, who came up with this idea? Then three of the guys got hurt and it just was horrible for the business that people didn't even know what the hell was going on. I keep taking him down. You know, people, and the crowd are like, what is this? You know, I don't know if people watching knew if it was a shooter or work. I know. Right?

I know. Like, I think it's WWE. So you're like, well, this, it's got to be a work in some sort of way. Yeah. And it's funny how, you know, when you do these interviews and you could talk about it being at work and stuff. And when you're out there, we go through real tables. We use real chairs.

I've never used a fake chair in my life. you go to Walmart and buy a brand new metal chair, and that's what we all take. And it's just funny. And believe it or not, we started taking them toward the forehead because when it would take them on the top of your head, it would jam your neck. When you took them on your back, it felt like he just got slapped with the worst sunburn you ever had. So you started taking them on your forehead so you can at least snap your headed with them and hope you don't break your nose. But, you know, all of us in there have taken those. Exactly one year ago, John Sina announced his retirement tour at Money in the Bank in Toronto.

and crazy to think that his retirement tour is already more than half over. And that's why I want to give a huge shout out to today's sponsor, Seatkeek. With over 28 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on Seekek, including WWE, concerts, sports, festivals, and more. Right now you can get tickets to wherever John Cena's next appearance might be, along with MLB, UFC, and everything else on there. And the great thing about Seekek is they've got your back. Every ticket is rated on a scale of one to ten. You know if you're getting a good deal or not.

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CVV, just make sure to click the link in the show notes to download the app. And then that code will automatically be applied to your. account so you can use it later. Big shout out to Seekekek for sponsoring this episode. What's the worst chair shot you ever took? The worst shot I ever took was in a hardcore match in Madison Square Garden. It was Al Snow, Bob Holly, and me, we sent the runner around the grab things and I saw these metal things sitting under the ring. And I thought it was one of those heavy, thick dough pans from the kitchen. But they're pretty thick. They're not, you know, thin aluminum. They're thick. And I thought that's what it was under there. I thought, okay,

we can take those. He'll bend. Anyway, we get out there and now hits me with this metal plate. And I yelled, you know, dropping an F-bomb or something out there like, what is that? I mean, knocked me silly. Well, Bob's across the ring. I could see him laughing. So I went over and cracked him with it. Well, Bob started yelling. Here was a furnace plate. It was a solid steel furnace plate and I thought it came from the kitchen. That thing must, but after the matches, we picked it up,

it must have weighed five pounds. And he just laced at both of us. I don't know how neither one of us dropped. And anyway, that was the worst. And it was funny because one of those hardcore matches we were in, the ending was when the table breaks, the table wouldn't break.

We landed on it. I thought my back broke. Did it again, I thought my back broke. We put it in the corner. We were firing each other. into it. I mean, full speed. The table wouldn't break. Finally, I'll just set the table up, bowled, started waving to the table. Everybody started cracking up and we left. Nobody couldn't break

the table. Jeez. So that was a great finish show. That was spontaneous and it was comical because we tried 15 times to break that thing. We were all banged up and couldn't break it. When you have the background that you have and you go into brawl for all, are you thinking, I'm going to win this whole thing? Well, I did think that. And then after I fall mark, I'm like, okay, let me go home and train now and let's get moving here. So one of my friends at home was about six, three, 300 pounds, amateur wrestler's whole life. So I started working with me.

We started training. And he waistlocked me. And just as he waistlocked me, I wasn't expecting him to sit so fast. He sat in the side of my leg and tore the cartilage in my leg. I'm like, oh, my God, this can't be happening. We were just starting to do warmups. I was only throw, he'd throw, I threw it. And he just sat in the side of my leg.

I couldn't believe it. I had to get my neck or how to get my leg worked on then and I couldn't finish the thing. And I was livid because I wanted to get out there at that point. And so that's what happened there. When you look at the other 15 guys in that, who was the toughest opponent, do you think? Bart won it. Yeah. Out of the crew that was in it, Bart was the toughest.

The thing with it was a lot of the guys could throw, but Bart can actually wrestle too. And after he did win it, he goes, you think I'd have dropped you? I said, no, you're too slow. But he's a tough guy. I'll give him that. And he's not easy to take down. He wrestled his whole life, you know, his stuff too. But when he fought Butterbean, I said, Bart, don't turn this into a boxing match with him. Just keep taking him down. I said, you'll out wrestle him all day to shoot, take him down. You know, throw a bomb, shoot off. If you catch him with it, great. Then stay on him standing. If you the bomb or whatever you stagger him, take him down. He goes, he is insisting on making it a boxing match. Well, he got cracked. But, you know, Bart's a tough guy. He is, no matter what.

And, you know, I just, I don't know why he would opt just to turn that into a boxing match when he knows he can not wrestle the guy. Butterbean just destroyed. He did. And I told him before, I said, Bart, just go out there and wrestle. I mean, because he, Bart, he's got to be 6, 6, 3, 6, 4, 275. good wrestler, just go out there and keep taking him down. But you know, you can lead a horse to water. I tried. Yeah, it was scary. When he got dropped, it was scary.

He did get dropped. And, you know, you should, my thing is just shoot on him, shoot on him, shoot on him, wear him out, wear him out, wear him out, throw your hand. If you catch him with a bomb and you see him stagger, then stay on him. If you don't stagger him, keep shooting on him. Yeah. But yeah, that backfired. But nevertheless, aren't you glad it wasn't you?

Yeah, I would have kept taking him down at that point. But, um, you think you might have beat Butterbean? I, I certainly would have fought Butterbean. But I mean, when you're allowed, when you're allowed both, you know, you throw a, you throw a good punch. He sometimes if you're a good shooter and you can shoot off your punch, throw it, he fades or slips, shoot off of it. You have to set him up and stuff like that.

Don't just stand there and do the one thing that that guy's great at. Yeah. And, you know, but it's funny because I, I'm doing that a, County Comic Con in Austin in August. And I'll be with Butterbean. Have you ever taken a photo with him? I haven't, but I'll be down there with him. And then, wait, maybe I did. He was in wrestling with this one time, but I don't remember it. But, and then Mark Coleman will be with us, and then a couple other guys. So that's how I'll be with all weekend. Now, you like never do conventions. I don't. I haven't done much of it over the years. I just, when I was done in there,

I was frustrated. I wish I wouldn't have had so many neck. issues at the time. I just wish I would have done more than I did, accomplished more than I did. But under the circumstances, I did whatever I could. But I haven't done many of that. I kind of just put it behind me when I left and focused on my. I had the MMA school for about 13 and a half years. The only reason I stopped it is because once my kids were born, I didn't have time to do bail bonds. M.A. school. And I put on many shows where I would put a dozen of my fighters on against 12 fighters from all over the world. I brought guys in from all over.

I had a lot of good fighters in their forum fought in UFC. Dennis Bermuda, Dennis was in there for seven years. He trained with me for a few years. And then, you know, Dennis was great, great wrestler too. And he's like, Steve, he goes, you know, he's afraid to tell me, he goes, I think I'm going to go work out with the UFC guys. I said, go. I said, Dennis, that's where you need to go.

I said, you know, I mean, I trained so many people here, have hundreds of people here. I said, there's dozens of you that I trained to fight, but I said, I get you to here. I said, if you're going to fight UFC full time, you need to be with those guys to get that, you know, to that top, you know, training ability and so on. I said, I don't believe me for going there. That's where you need to go. I think if you did conventions, you'd be very popular. Oh, thanks. I mean, I'm, I'm going to do that one. I have another one lined up. I, but like I said, I don't hold me to it again. I've probably done four of them in 20 years. What? And you, and you Never do interviews either.

So thank you, by the way. Thanks for having me. But no, I don't do much. Have you just put wrestling behind you? I did at the time because, like, again, no one I needed a couple. They told me at front I need a couple neck operations because they can only, when they go through the front, they can only do a certain amount of area at one time. Had one done, cut my headaches down about 40%.

Had another one done, cut it down again. So now I can function. I'm not in pain all day. And if I am, I can still work through it and go about my business. I can go back. I can do sprints again, do stuff again. So, but at that time for those years, it's like, I didn't even want to think about it because I knew I couldn't go back, knew it wasn't going back.

And I thought, you know what, it's time to move on. And I just started focusing on my other stuff. So were you in pain your whole time in WWF? Yes. I think it would be like Monday, I'd wrestle, get a migraine. And I don't mean a little headache where, oh, I have a headache. No, I mean, feel like you're being stabbed in your head, throw up, lay down, throw up, lay down. Wow.

Go to bed. The next day, you'd sleep all day, wrestle, the next day of the migraine again, go through that, the next day resting. So it would be like every other day I'd have a migraine. And I'm not being funny, but like, you can't imagine what it's like getting forearmed or body slammed when you have a migraine. You feel like a grenade went off in your head. I wrestled Kane one night in a hardcore match.

I landed on the back of my head in the floor. my foot got caught. When I jumped off the rail, kicked him. My shoe hit him on the chest and I landed on my back. The migraine kicked in in one second, just shot up through my spine. Every time he hit me, I felt like a grenade was going off. And that was the beginning of the match. We had 15 minutes more to go.

And I'm like, oh, my God. And I'm just fighting through it, fighting through it. I'd sit out in the hall and just squeeze my head. And then a night in a hotel, I'd literally lay it on my side. Sometimes I'd have a baseball in my bag. I'd put a baseball under my back. If I'd lay on it, I'd find a spot where I could pinch off the nerve going to my head. So finally after an hour, I could fall asleep and then sleep the whole night.

And the next day, I'd just be tired from the pain, but I'd wrestle again. And that's what I went through for years. And that was pretty much your entire run. It was, I'm going to say 80% of my run. Wow. So, wow. Oh, yeah, it was brutal. And, you know, and I'm like, man, if I had those stuff done before I went back, you

know, what got much worse in there, but if I had had it done and then gone back, I just could have done a lot more. There were nights where I wanted to do more crazy stuff, and I just couldn't. My head hurt too bad, so I just do what I could to get by. But, you know, the hardcore stuff worked out great for me because I could just showcase weapons and, you know, speed and things like that. And so, you know, that made it sounds funny, but it was, I was getting cracked as much to them, but it was still easier on my neck. Was that what led to you leaving WWA, just being in pain? Yeah, once, at the end of, the last 13 months I had left,

Brian Christopher and I were tag team, and it was getting over well. Trish would be a valet with us. The whole thing was, the whole gimmick was getting over. We had good matches, we had good chemistry, and we planned on having the tag team run for the next 13 months, you know, with Belson stuff. we go to Canada to do an appearance. They were sending us on more appearances because we're getting over well. He gets called at the border with stuff in his bag, gets fired immediately, and our gimmicks

over. And I'm like, JR, now what? He goes, we plan on you being with him for the rest of this. I said, I figured that. I said, well, are you opposed to me going to get my neck operated on? I said, I live in here with migraines every day. He goes, we know, we know you do. He goes, we can see that.

And I said, well, how about if I get my neck fixed? and he's like, go get it fixed. He goes, if you get doctor clearance after that, you can come back anytime you want. Well, once I had it worked on, like Kurt Angle and Benel and all those guys, they all had atrophy in their arm right before their operation. For some reason, I had like a decompression symptom or something they described it as. My atrophy started after the operation. My right arm wouldn't work.

I was a wild man. I literally couldn't bench anything. I couldn't push anything. I couldn't do a push up. My arm wouldn't even work. And like in a matter of a month after that, my right arm's like two or three inches smaller than my left and I'm losing my mind. So I buy a Smith machine stick it in my brother's basement.

I'd go over, push it up, let it down with my right hand, push it up, try to let it down. I'd try to focus on here. Well, it just wouldn't work. I'd throw my tantrums, firing weights, kicking weights. I'm just losing my mind. About 11 and a half months goes by. And I'm like, my God, it's working. And it actually started their work after doing that like five times a week for 11 months.

Then it started coming back. And then it then it came back quick after that. How'd they come up with the idea to put you and Al Snow together head cheese? I don't know how that came about, but it got over. It was actually the vignettes were comical. People popped like crazy on them. It worked. It was, you know, and it's funny because it got over great for three months.

here's another one. They were going to get, we were going to get the tag belts at that time. And, uh, one of the guys in the office said something to, uh, I don't know if it was Vince or whoever was calling the shots that night,

usually Vince, um, said, I don't think we should give them the belts yet. And they just squashed it and squashed their gimmick. And I don't want to say who it was. That's not me. But I'm like,

really, dude? Like, I mean, I didn't find it out until like a year or late. But I'm thinking, that's brutal. So you go up there and uses some clout to put a stop to it. You were so good at playing the straight man. You know, like Al Snow is making all these jokes and you're just like playing it straight.

Yeah. That was, I mean, sometimes I think I played it too straight. Like I, I mean, that's me being straight. Like, when I first got back in, I'm not being funny. Like, well, me, boy, I'll tell you this story. The office called me in Shamrock in one day. put Ken out in the hall called me in. They said, Steve, you need to start doing more on the mic, more charisma.

We need to start pushing you up to these higher matches. This is after a few years. You need to start showing more. I said, I'll try. And they're like, I'll never forget. They looked at me and they said, well, what would you do if there's a guy standing here and you're mad at him? I'm like, what would you say?

I said, well, that's the problem. I wouldn't say anything. I just walk over and crack him. And I'll never forget. they said, get out. I walked out. I said, you're in. Ken walked in.

He came out. They asked him the same question. He gave him the same answer and they told him to get out. I mean, you know, I look back on like, what? It was I think. And I mean, like, but that's just kind of how, you know, we acted. And that backfired. So were you not comfortable in the like?

At that time, after a couple of years, it would be. But like, no matter who you are, when you first, come back in, it just doesn't click on the mic. You just don't flow. And then after you're in front of the cameras every day, you start to flow. But when you go on the mic every day like Austin and rocking them, they flow so great with it that they can't wait to get on it. It's just a matter of doing it over and over and over until you become accustomed. You realize you don't care what something looks like. You don't care if something looks stupid. If it looks great, great, because nobody cares. As soon as you forget about it, they forget about it. So just go out there and do it, you know.

but I should have done I should have focused on that more because it makes a big difference. Did you realize putting the cheese on your head would get over as much as it did? I did not. It did. It got a heck of a pop. That place popped. And I was a comical guy. So the stuff that he would have me do and stuff, it was entertaining. I'd get to the arena. They'd be like, Steve, you're going to milk a Caldonite. I said, yeah, sure I am. I'd walk to the locker room. I'm going to farm milk. a cow. The next week of TV, they're like, Steve, you're doing a comedy skit at a retirement home. I'm like, yeah, sure I am. That was really good. And yeah, that woman's yelling that on me unscripted.

Black man, you suck. Do you remember that? I just remember her yelling that at me. And the next scene is you being like, Al Snow's being like, you can't assault elderly people. So it was funny, you know, but yeah, it was going well. And then somebody stepped in and it was all squashed after a few months. You also had a match where in the middle of it, Alice Snow's telling you to dance. And you break out a moonwalk. Yeah, somewhat of a moonwalk. Oh, you know. Right.

Yeah, I mean, it was comical. Trying to do stuff that people wouldn't expect you to do. I mean, you know, when I'm out there, even though a lot of it's a work, it's still a frame of mind I get in. And it's hard for me to act a certain way. I just kind of was more straight-faced guy and stuff. But the stuff did get over. It was comical, the dancing, the head cheese stuff. I mean, our matches were good, too, I thought, at the time.

And, you know, and everything was going well. And then somebody put a stop, you know, to it. But, you know, then I had the run with Brian. That was going well. And then he got busted up there. So two runs were just cut short. But I always, I do remember my run with the nation. We talked about that earlier.

I love working with those guys. because it was just so much heat that the crowd would just pop when you would do stuff to them. Did you ever see the opportunity to go back? Like you did something on the 15th anniversary of Roth, but did you ever see an opportunity to go back to WWWE? I haven't, I haven't even really discussed anything with anyone. Don't get me wrong, I mean, there's times where I thought,

oh man, it'd be fun to go back there and do a hardcore match or something like that and just flow with it. And just to do it again. You know, it's been 20 years, but I don't really bring it up. I haven't talked to anybody about it. So you had that appearance, I think it was 07, and that was just the one-off, right? 15th anniversary. That's when it was.

Yes. Yep, just out there. But they never talked to you about doing more stuff? No, not really. And, you know, when you look back to me, so many of the guys are gone, you know, that I was in there with me. it's brutal when you look at, you know, road warriors gone and then, the list is endless, you know, but I mean, you just go on and on and on. Dozens of the guys are gone now.

So, uh, trying to limit everything back to. We've heard so many different versions of this story about you fighting JBL, the St. Louis airport. Right. I don't know if we've heard your version. So what really happened? Well, I've seen a few of the guys' versions, just coincidentally popping up on, I'm watching stuff on my phone at night.

Yeah, Hardcore Holly wrote about it in his book. JBL actually talked about on that podcast recently. Oh, he laughs about it now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he doesn't care. That guy's great. I mean, back then I was pissed at him, but a couple days later, we laughed about it. Nobody cares anymore.

That's where you have to be. But some of the accounts were somewhat accurate. And we were on the plane. JBL and one of the other guys kept throwing stuff up, a few rows up, and hit me in the head. Well, I'm trying to sleep. I mean, like, we don't get a whole lot of sleep when you go to bed at midnight or 1 a.m. And you're getting up at 5 a.m. for an early flight.

I want a couple hours sleep on the plane. I walked back after I did it a few times. I said, look, guys, I'm trying to get some sleep. I've had enough. Okay? I'll walk back and sit down. They do it again. So a few more minutes ago, by I walk back.

My guys had enough. And the only reason I didn't start swinging right there is because I knew there would be 20 air marshals waiting for me when we landed. So I'm like, okay, let me go back and sit down. They did it a couple more times. And I am just fuming. And I'm like, I want to sprint back this aisle and just go now. I got to hold it, hold it.

We get to the baggage claim in St. Louis. I walk up and Bradshaw comes up and stands right beside me, comes up and bumps me right up against me. I took my sunglasses off, handed it to one of the guys. I came with a backhand from the floor. I backhanded him. I didn't hit him as hard as I could because I didn't want him to split his head open on the floor, but I cracked him. He flew. I turned around. I went one, two, uppercut, bombed him. He went flat in his back at baggage claim. There were 500 people there. And just as I hit him the last time, my foot went through a duffel bag on the floor. It was like a puzzle. My foot must have won right through a certain way. There's this big duffel bag and I couldn't get it off my leg. I'm kicking, pulling. Well, I don't know the time, a little bit of time goes by. Well, I don't know. A little bit of time goes by. Well, he's awakened back to his feet. He come up, I turn around. I'm like, oh, I can't get this thing off my leg and it's, I don't know, 40 pound bag, 50 pound bag. And he comes back, swing. I see the

punch coming. I slip. He throws another one. I slip. After that, a whole bunch of guys grabbed everybody and pulled us apart. And well, naturally, there's so many people at baggage claim. It was a pay-per-view day. So some of the guys from the office had already told Vince and stuff. we get to the arena well Vince must have be line right for me I'm walking down the hall he comes up

and you know Vince is he obviously he can be cynical come straight up to me like Steve Sunday morning in the airport he goes that's great

just great I'm like Vince I'm sorry it happened in the airport I can't say it won't ever happen again but I can promise you won't happen in the airport and uh well

so we go walking back I go put my shoes on. I said, go tell Bradshaw to lace up. That's one of the guys. And he comes up and he goes, Steve, if you put me on the spot out there, he goes, I'm going to have to fight. I said, well, I expect you to do. So I said, what do I have to do? I said, well, I'm going to tell you what. I said, you can apologize in front of everybody in the cafeteria for being a complete asshole. I said, we're going to go again right there. And I said, I'm going to hit a whole lot harder this time. And so he walks in. He was in his sneakers and gym shorts. He was ready. I mean, he's no punk. but he came he goes I apologize for being an asshole whatever blah blah and we let it go we laugh

about it now I think he said that he's never been punched that many times in such a short period of time because it was like yeah I think I hit it four times in a second because I remember the sequence because I was I turned and it was like I went you know one two uppercut and then bomb it was a pop pop pop pop pop pop pop and he dropped on his breath but um Anyway, this is what it is. And while, when it happened, some guy, some elderly guy must have gotten elbowed by one of us or knocked backward. And he was, I don't know, he was an older man. And his son who is somewhere elderly comes up and goes, when are you guys hit my father?

And he had blood coming out of his ear. And I'm like, I looked over there. I said, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry about that. And, you know, he let it go. Then the son said something else. I said, dude, I said, I'm sorry twice, okay? And his father's standing there and he looks okay now, whatever.

The guy said something the third time, I said, I've had enough. I said, Christ, I said, I was sorry now. Austin heard me say that. I look over and he's standing there cracking up, you know, these guys, you know, but it's like, then we left and they kept me in Bradshaw off TV for like a month. As like a punishment? As a punishment. Find both of us.

And it's unfortunate. But the only reason the heat was taken off of us is because that's the night that Owen fell from the ceiling. Wow. Because when that happened, there was nothing else in anybody's mind but Owen. Sure. And that was brutal that day. And because I was off that night because of that incident at the airport. And the way the arena was, the way they had it set up for the show, there was one section in the hallway in the back where you could stand closer to like the ring and watch.

and I was standing at the curtain. Well, Rock was on like last or near the end, whatever. He came walking around like, what's up? I said, I've got to, you know, watching from here. Well, he stood there watching with me because it would better see. Were the only two standing there? Boom. Oh, no.

And Owen hits. And we're like, what happened there? And I said, well, I hate to say it, but he's gone. Rock's like, what do you mean? I'm like, I can see it. I can see the bluish tinton's lips, the paleness in his face. I said, I don't know what happened up there, but I said, well, since we were the short side to the ring, that's where the ambulance came through.

That's where they went and got him, and then he wheeled him past us standing there. And it was just awful, just horrible. And, I mean, I knew Owen the longest in the business because I met him in Japan in 87. Yeah, and you trained at the dungeon. And I was up there in Canada for his dad for a year and stuff like that. And, but it's just, you know, just nice guy, great guy, great family, man. Just, you know, sometimes bad things just happen to the wrong people. Yeah.

Do you have any regrets in your career? It sounds like you've never backed down from a fight ever. I won't. I won't. Even still? Probably even still. I'm getting older, but it's still in you, you know? You try to avoid.

I'll tell you this, you know, I never looked for them, but you try to avoid them. It's like, you don't think that same way. It's like, you know, when you're younger and like everybody's, you know, younger and ready to go all the time, but I don't think the same way like, oh, okay, I'm just going to go out here and keep on throwing. Like, this hurts, that hurts. So just try to avoid things, try to mature, try to, you know, stay calm, things like that. But if somebody's standing in front of me, I mean, if it's go time, it's go time.

So, but are there any regrets? I regret not accomplishing more than I did. And that's on me because I had plenty of opportunities. I should have taken better advantage of them. I should have gone further with some of the things I did, not trying to make excuses. I just had so much pain sometimes. Sometimes nights I'd go out there, my head would hurt so bad. Like it'd be like, okay, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this. I'll do enough to get by, make it look decent. But instead of being great, some nights were decent, because I just went to get back and take stuff, try to go to bed, lay down again, and stuff like that. And, you know, and it was, it just wasn't easy, but that's what I went through. Did you know there's like this lore about Steve Blackman?

Like, in the same way that people talk about Chuck Norris, they talk about you. I'm going to read you a few of these. Have you ever heard any of these? No. These are Steve Blackman facts, okay? because there's a lot of respect for you. The boogeyman checks under his bed for Steve Blackman. That's great.

Steve Blackman once did push-ups. Turns out he was actually pushing the earth. Where do you find this? There's a whole chain of these online. Steve Blackman was once charged with three attempted murders in Dauphin County, but the judge quickly dropped his charges because Steve Blackman does not attempt murder. Who has the time to put this stuff on there? These are great.

I know, it's funny. Sometimes I'll see things on YouTube, Mike. It'll just pop up and you'd be like, who puts all this stuff on here? You can't even believe it. There's a lot of respect for what you do and what you're capable of doing. I appreciate it. I do. Generally, like, people see you move a certain way.

Most people can see what you can do, what you can't. But I miss be, I don't miss traveling, but I mean. miss being around the guys because it's just a different breed of guys. It's a whole group of tough guys. And you all have the same mentality, same sense of humor, same training desire, things like that. I miss that. Like when people say, do you miss wrestling? I miss a reason to train. When I'm around those guys and you're on TV and around bigger guys and tough guys, you have a reason to train. You know, you want to stay in shape. So, you know, I mean, I miss that a lot. But But again, like so many guys in our crew back then when I was in there, you can go down the list.

I don't care if you go from Austin to take her to angle to Bob Holly to this guy, to that guy, all of them are athletic guys and they're good-sized guys. So it's like, you know, if you corner them, they're going to fight back. You know, there's no punks in there going, oh, you know, I'm going to sit down. I mean, I mean, they're all, most of those guys are athletic and they're tough and they're not going to back down. And I give it to them. I miss being on the road with a group like that. I really enjoyed your bail bondsman commercials.

Oh, you did? Well, those were years ago. They're really good, though. If you wanted to jail, call Blackman for bail. That's great. That's funny because we did, I whip, yeah, we whipped that together like the first year I was doing those. My God, that thing must have, that's years ago.

They're all on YouTube. That's great. And I feel like your phone has rang 10 more times during this interview. It is. A lot of people need to be bailed out of jail. They do. So. So I will let you.

you go, but thank you for doing this. I know you don't do a lot of interviews, so I really appreciate you taking the time, inviting me into your beautiful home to do this. And I think that you'll find after this interview comes out and after you do your next appearance at the convention, it's going to be a lot of people that want to meet Steve Blackman. That's cool. I appreciate everything, you know, but I want to emphasize, too, that there's a lot of tough guys in there. I appreciate the accolades the guys give me, but I miss being on the road for that reason because I consider being a lot of tough guys and just a different breed and I and I enjoyed that aspect of it a lot. So I will ask you the question that I ask everybody at the end because gratitude is such a big part of my life and I wake

up every day, say out loud three things I'm grateful for. I do it before I go to bed as well to just kind of set the tone for like looking at the things that I'm grateful for in my life. What are three things in your life, Steve, that you're grateful for right now? Well, obviously number one, my kids. I'm grateful of my kids. I mean, I started late. My kids are 13, 17. How old were you when you became a dad? 44. Okay. My first one. Yeah. You know, it's the last thing I wanted to. I never wanted to be that much older than my kids, but that's the way it worked out. So I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful for my I mean, I'm grateful my kids and my family. You know, I worked out well. I'm grateful to be back healthy again a lot more than I, you know, was by me, sometimes I feel it's 20 years later and

sometimes I feel better than when I was in there. Other aches and pains, I mean, obviously, but, you know, the third thing, I mean, my family, the health issue. And I mean, I'm grateful for the way my businesses worked out and things like that. So I would say those three things, family health and businesses. I'd say it's going pretty well. The amount of phone calls I've seen you take. I stay busy.

Yeah, I'd say so. So thank you for making the time to do this. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Blackman, ladies and gentlemen, what a legend. And someone who just clearly isn't afraid to punch you in the mouth. I love that. He's such a no-nonsense guy. And man, those were some amazing stories. That JBL story specifically is wild. We've heard so many different versions of it. And it's great to hear it directly from the source. I loved this conversation so much. Snap a screenshot

and let me know that you were listening. Let me know what really stood out for you. And since Steve Blackman is not on social media, you can't tag him, but you can tag me. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And we'll wrap this one up with a great quote from Albert Einstein. Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving. Be great and be grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight.

On Thursday, we've got Soraya on the show. You knew her best in WWE as Paige. Will we see her back in WWE as page? I'll see you on Thursday for that one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

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