Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Steve Maclin on WWE release, Forgotten Sons, Deonna Purrazzo, IMPACT Wrestling

Episode Date: August 30, 2021

Steve Maclin (aka Steve Cutler) is a professional wrestler and former Marine. He joins Chris Van Vliet from his home in Orlando, FL to talk about being released from WWE, signing with IMPACT Wrestling, working with his girlfriend Deonna Purrazzo, being part of "The Forgotten Sons" with Jackson Ryker and Wesley Blake, serving in the United States Marine Corps, how he got his start in professional wrestling and much more! If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. The! Okay, here we go. Welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm Chris Van Fleet. Pump that you're with us for this one. And I appreciate you coming back each and every episode.

Or perhaps if it's your first time here, I hope you stick around. I hope you stick around and maybe dive into the back catalog of almost 250 interviews that we've done on the podcast. If you haven't yet, please take a second to subscribe to this show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening right now. And if you are listening on Apple Podcasts and you haven't left a review yet, it would go such a long way if you could leave a few words on there about how you feel about the show.

That's it. It's all I asked for. Don't have to give me money. Just leave a few words. Leave a few emojis. That's it. This one is from Andy in Scotland. He says, the Tony Robbins of the interview world. Andy here listening all the way from Air Scotland.

Drew McIntyre's old haunt. These interviews are great. Chris is so positive, it's hard not to be infectious. Amazing insightful interview questions, rather than the usual cookie cutter crap that everyone asks. Mixes it up with different types of guests too. Can only recommend this. Five stars.

Well, thank you so much, Andy. You're the man, Andy. And next time I'm in Scotland, which is hopefully soon. It's been three years since. I was there last. But next time I'm there, I'll let you know. All right, you can find my guest today on both Twitter and Instagram. He's at Steve Macklin. You may remember him, though, from his time in WWE under a different name as Steve Cutler. We get down to the bottom of all

that and so much more. Please welcome. Steve McClain. Steve, thanks so much for joining me. Oh, thanks for having you. Look at the setup you've got here. It's like a shrine to both you and Biana. Well, that's mostly D's wall now. I just got the forgotten sun shirt, really. She kind of... She was not in the forgotten sun. She is not a forgotten son. No, she just takes pride that I got a shirt. Well, hey,

I would take pride in that too. Speaking of shirts, you're wearing... Is this a Captain America shirt? Oh, yeah. I'm a Marvel Mark. I mean, you're also like a true Captain America. Yeah, well. Look, I have a tremendous amount of respect for anybody

who serves the country. So thank you for your by the way. No, thank you. Appreciate it. But the fact that I feel like, yeah, if anyone has the right to wear a Captain America shirt, I feel like it would be someone like you who served in the United States Marine Corps. Oh, appreciate. Yeah, I got the nomad beard kind of going right now, so.

Has anyone ever told you that you look a little bit like Stephen Amel? No. Okay, well, let me then be the first to tell you this. And with heels coming out now on Stars, the wrestling TV show, show if he's looking for a stunt double i mean it's right here i feel like yeah especially with it being a wrestling show i'll take all the bumps for yeah well there it is fly out to l a way or no i think they're filming in atlanta so there you go there you go yeah it's one of those uh one of those shows that's kind of on the radar but he's like kind of looking into i remember seeing a preview and i was just like

oh this could be interesting but especially for a guy who's actually worked in front of a crowd like stephen umel has actually had matches he's not just an actor who's you know playing a wrestler It's been exciting watching your journey over these last few months. It's been a weird one, but a fun one, how everything's kind of happened for a reason. And I tell everybody that all the time. Things happen during the past year, and I couldn't be happier where I'm at now with Impact Wrestling. And I know we were chatting before this, but officially signed with Impact Wrestling. And it's awesome.

It's a new venture for me, and it's a new family for me there, too. and the atmosphere and impact is just great from top to bottom. Yeah, you're one of those people who was able to, you know, really land on your feet after getting released. Yeah. So it's funny, like, anybody that gets released, everybody's like, oh, man, that sucks. It's not good. Like, everybody kind of has that heartfelt things, but like, a lot of the talents that

let's go is, especially the talent that's been let go is so freaking talented. Yeah. And a lot of the times you're not allowed to fully flourish there because just the way creative is. And it's a working process, and that's the TV show they want. And when you get out and you're able to spread your wings on your own and kind of be free and do what you want to do on your own, obviously working with a promoter or a company itself, but being able to just be out and be able to express yourself

on how you vision yourself to look at. It's a different world. Well, with Deanna working in impact, you already had a little peek behind the curtain to see how things functioned there. Yeah, so I actually flew. in the week that she had slam reverser her first match back there when she won the title and um that was just kind of cool because i went in for the week i didn't go to show or anything

but i just went to get away from florida in that time and then a year later me get let go and just kind of go in the same route a week after i got let go i went with her to impact tapings not going there looking for a job ring but i just wanted to get away i needed to get away from florida right away from the PC bubble area because you see everybody from work all the time. And we went there and just come to the show and I was like, yeah, no problem.

And then just kind of hit it off, just chat with Dreamer, not even about wrestling or anything, just talking about Giants football and just history of New York Giants football. And it just, yeah, it was a good spot for me to land. I'm very happy to be there. So how does the conversation transition

from talking about football to talking about like, hey, I think we have something here for you. It really didn't come about at that day. It just obviously word came about towards the company as well. And once they asked me when my 90 days was up on a phone call and email, speaking with Delo and Scott DeMoor, that's kind of just how we went about it the next few days after that. And then we just played the waiting game on my 90 days.

And originally I was told after slam anniversary, I'd be making a debut. And then not even two days after that phone call, they said, hey, we're going to bring you in before slam anniversary and get the ball rolling early. I was like, no problem, ready to go to work. So did you have an idea in your mind of who you wanted Steve Cutler, the character to be? Or did you take those 90 days to go, all right, I want to do what I wasn't able to do in NXT.

So for me, as Steve Macklin now, Cutler's dead. He's dead and gone now. But from Steve Macklin, I already had the ideas of where I wanted to go. And for years pitching and being in the Performance Center with the creative process there, being under the tutelage of Dusty Roads and Ryan Katz was there for creative and then Joe Belcatcher, one of the headwriters used to come down all the time and even Paul Heyman. I always had ideas. I just have notepads and notes on my actual iPhone where I just have all these just old promos, old ideas where I just wanted to put together what I am and how

I envisioned myself. And I pretty much just took a little bit from a Punisher and then just took who I am all in the one and it mixes with the background of being Marine, taking that dark side of the Punisher and trying to manipulate it into myself and just be me, that's the fun part is being a character that's just me. I like that we have a cameo from one of your dogs in the background here. It's just honey. She's just roaming around. Fitz is sitting over here.

I love it. This is great. Yeah. This is great. You know, John Cena sprinkled a little bit of like Marine stuff into his gimmick for you. This is authentic. Yeah. And that's always one of those things too.

It was always told to us here in NXT is like they wanted characters. for so long and then after a while it became we need personality and we need to just turn that up a little bit so where it is you but it is a character where it comes off that way and that was one thing i always took pride in is like just staying true to who i am if we go back here was your first passion wrestling was it serving your country or was it something completely different uh well uh 9-11 is kind of what got me into uh pretty much wanting to join and uh that was a freshman school and then I think I kind of knew at that time what I wanted to do after high school even though I wanted to play football but 9-11 was one of those moments in my life

that had a big impact being a kid from Jersey and being seen the Twin Towers and everything from those days I'm watching them fall and it's one of those things where I kind of knew what I wanted to do and where my calling was going to and I did it and that was one thing I loved and it's funny that I have a few friends that were on independency wrestling and when I came came home on leave one weekend, Darren Young, Fred, now was with one of my buddies, Jared's at one of the hometown bars, any Strelford, at Railroad. And it was just funny. He wanted to talk to one of my buddies that's in WWV.

I'm like, hell yeah. Like, he knew I love wrestling growing up and he always tried to get me in a ring. I just was like, there's no way. You could ever make that happen. Like I'm not 6'3, 255 pounds and above. I'm not Stone Cold. I'm not Holkogen. I'm not like, there's no way.

And just speaking with Fred, it was just one of those things where he just got that idea in my head. He's like, when you get out, he's like, you'll have a good story. You already have a good story. He's like, just give it a shot when you get out. And if this is something you want to do in pursuit, just go all in about it. And one of the few things he did tell me, too, was never change who you are. And just kind of stick to who you are and don't let the business change you. And that was one of those things that stuck with me and still sticks with me now.

And then I try to pass that on the people as well nowadays. But once I got out of the Marine Corps, I started going to school at Rowan Year. Sorry. Me, this is great. They're playing with a ball, sorry. They want to be part of the interview, too. I know. But once I was going to school at Rowan University in South Jersey,

I was moving back to my parents, and I found the monster packer in Palsborough, in Jersey. And I got in the ring, and I fell in love instantly. It was just an instant, like, no matter what, I feel like a big kid every day in my life for what I do. Yeah. And it's the most fun in the world. world. And it's also, I don't know, nowadays it's very less stressful, I will say, which is great.

But yeah, to answer that, it's just one of those things. I didn't know at that time that's something I knew I could have done or wanted to do, but I fell in love with wrestling as soon as I stepped in a ring. You know, you mentioned 9-11. It's crazy to think that's 20 years ago next month. So if we go back to September 11, 2001, where were you and how did that news hit you? I was actually in a homeroom on our way to school. My buddy Tim, his mom, used to driving to school all the time. My parents were always working, so they weren't home. So they always got me to the ride to school.

And we're kind of listening over the radio on the way to school. We got to a home room. I remember just sitting there. And it was one of those moments where we grew up so close to the city, not even 20 minutes out. Hey, come out. I grew up 20 minutes outside of New York City. Let me get them out of here. Okay.

Get the ball. Get it. Just a nice little cameo there. from the dogs. Yeah. They will fight over one toy if they both have the same toy they want the other's toy like normal kids work. But yeah, it was in home room and it was just one of those things growing up 20 minutes outside the city and I had a lot of friends whose families work there, uncles, aunts, and it really affected that whole area, the country in general, but just anywhere near outside of New York City within that 50 mile radius was just it's crazy.

And how did you decide in that moment, all right, I want to do something. I need to make a difference here. I don't know. It was just the time. If I could have joined that day, I probably would have at 15, 16. But yeah, I don't know. Can't tell you. I don't know.

I grew up in a military family, so it was always kind of bred into me. My dad was in the Army. My uncle was a Marine. And then my grandfather was in the Army as well. So it's one of those things. Military was always just a thing in the household, watching full metal jacket and reenacting with toy guns in the backyard and playing with my army figures and whatnot outside.

But yeah, I don't know. I can't tell you. It's just something I just felt like I had to do, and I did. Yeah. So growing up in an Army family, is that mean you were traveling around a whole bunch as a kid? No, no. My dad got out. My uncle got out.

We were home in Jersey. My grandparents had the house in Rutherford. So my dad, I want to say my dad was at five years before he got medically discharged. And then my uncle, I'm not too sure in the time of his service. I know you got discharged. as well. But yeah, different, different time. Yeah. So is this for you basically like, you graduated from high school and you're like, there's no question what I'm doing next. I know exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to go in less. I tried college for a year. My mom begged me because I was

ready to go to the recruiter in 2005 and frigging Iraq was awful at that time and Fallujah was kicking off. And of course, it was all over the news. So my mom just begged me, please try college. And I did and didn't like college at first. It wasn't for me, and it wasn't what I wanted to do. And then one day I was working at my dad's supply office. He's a locksmith. My stepdad, there's a locksmith office in Bloomfield, and the recruiter was right down the street,

and I went at lunch one day, and I just said, screw this. I walked in, I said, I want to leave this date right after Thanksgiving. I was like, I want to go infantry. Don't need to do anything else. You don't have to sell me on anything, because they usually have to give me the recruiting standpoint. Yeah, yeah. And it was a very easy process, but it was just for me, being an only child,

was a pain in the butt just because I had to take the paperwork to my parents. And you have to sign off because technically I'm the last of my bloodline with my name. So it's one of those things you have to sign off as the only child. But my dad, my stepdad knew what I wanted to do. And then my mom just was upset. But it all changed once I went to boot camp and graduated. You saw me in uniform and rest of history. You're like the recruiters dream when you walk in there, you know?

Yeah. You're right. Most of them are like trying to sell you on the idea. You're just like, nope, I'm good. I know what I want to do. Wow. Is Hell Week as crazy as everyone makes it out to be? Boot Camp for Camp Lejeune or not Camp Lejeune.

Paras Island. I was a Paras Island Marine. Actually, you have Parris Island and then NCRD out in California. But I take more pride being from Paris Islands where the real Marines are bred. But I don't know. just I kind of went in better shape than I expected and then I came out out of shape. That makes any sense because it you don't realize. It does not make any sense.

No, you think like the first three weeks were pretty much more of the physical part of it. And then afterwards it kind of turns into just mostly drill and learning the history, learning how to clean your weapon, taking proper care. And then just pretty much a three month breakdown of boot camp and trying to break you down as an individual on getting you that brainwash marine. And are you seeing people all around you just dropping? life lies? No, surprisingly, no, there wasn't that many. And usually you drop off, we just dropped into an ex platoon at that time. It's kind of how it works at boot camp. I don't know how it works nowadays. But yeah, I expected it to be a lot worse just because, like I said, growing up watching

full metal jacket or watching movie Jarhead. You see like the boot camp videos and then just kind of mothers of America kind of took over a little bit and affected a little bit of boot camp style. So at what point do you start thinking about what's next after, you know, serving your country after being a Marine. At what point during that process? My second deployment was when I was kind of really contemplating my career in the military. So I originally enlist, I tried to reenlist with a MESET package, which was pretty much the cross deck from being enlisted side to officer side. So I would have had my MESP package in where I would technically go to OCS, but then also

go to college at the same time, which would have let me finish my college career. And then if I was going to make a career, be officer. but at that time the tattoo policy wasn't very was very strict so anything below the sleeve was pretty much denied

so once I get denied that I just said all right it I'll get out and go back to college make use of the GI Bill and let's go wrestling wow and then okay so then you start wrestling what are the steps that you start taking there

I'm very fortunate for the time that it took because I was only training for about a year and a half in when I got signed. So it's a different world. But I was at the Monster Factory about a year and a half and Danny Cage got Gerald Briscoe in there

to do a tryout in the seminar July of 2013. And, you know, July of 2013, had my tryout with WWE that August of 2013. And then I was signed in October. And then made the move and came Florida in January of 2014.

This is not how it normally goes for most people. No, but at that time, like, NXT's landscape was so different because it was just starting to get built, and they were saying they didn't want independent talent and big names. And the crowd I was at was 60 guys, and I did not expect to like get signed from it because you had

a ton of guys there. Like, Eddie Edwards, frigging Davey Richards, uh, Todd, uh, well, Ivar was there. Um, a bunch of people Stapali was there. There was so many talent. Keith Lee was at my tryout,

though I think that was one of his first ones. And it's just crazy to come out of that. And then a few months later, he just gets signed as I was on my way to go do extra work with WWE as well. And it was just kind of funny to get that call. And I was, all right, sweet. We're moving to Florida.

Wow, especially when so many of those guys, like you just mentioned, had to do multiple tryouts with WWW. Yeah. It's such a weird process. Everybody's got their story. That's the one thing, like I learned a lot too at the PC, was that everybody that comes in, whether they love wrestling at the beginning or not, they end up liking it if they're there a long time, which you hope they do. But everybody has their different story. And I think that's the one thing they're trying to go for as well in that culture is they have so many different backgrounds coming in that that's what makes NXT what it is. I mean, you trained at one of the best wrestling schools in the country at the Monster Factory. What did you learn or like when you went to the PC, what did you have to go, oh, crap, I need to know this now? It was just getting the experience of working television, obviously.

And then also getting the actual match and rep experience. Because I was maybe about 30 matches when I got to the performance center. And I just started right as before I got signed was just starting to branch out and do an like get out of the factory and do independence, mostly in Delaware and Pennsylvania area. I was trying to get my name out there as well for extra bookings. But Briscoe told me he's like, don't take any other bookings, stay here, work on the basics, just keep doing what you're doing. And now take care.

I was like, no problem. Why wouldn't you listen to that? Like Cheryl Briscoe was telling you to do that and use the talent, like one of that top talent scouts at that time for WWE. So it's just like, yes, sir. Yeah. Was it Gerald Briscoe, who was the one who really saw something? in you or was it one of the trainers when you went to the tryout who kind of you caught their eye i would say briscoe bringing me in and then uh even the trainers at that time like were billy guns sarah motto

was still there at that time wasn't a full head coach yet but she was there uh demott um norman smiley was there uh steve kirkin was still there um but at that time like it was just a weird it was i don't know i took it all in at first because that magical like disney like when you first time you go to disney it was like the first time going to the performance say, oh, wow, this is great. Yeah. And after a few months actually being there, you're just like, that, whatever.

But it's also, you know, with your background and going through boot camp, there's no way they can break you. You know, I've heard that the first few days or weeks at the PC is just like, you know, intense cardio workouts. You're probably just like, oh, this, this is it. That is easy. Yeah. I would say the trials were a lot different during the demot time compared to the bloom time,

but they're still very strenuous in the body. And they make you want to get after it. Yeah. So when did you start to craft your character there? Early on, I kind of was just being me, and that's the one thing Dusty wanted to do. A lot of times at promo classes, because that place was, they had promos Monday, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, and I went to every one of those. I only would cut Monday, Tuesday, and then, like, the higher classes, like, whoever was on TV was there on Wednesdays.

So you just sit and watch and kind of learn. But then it's kind of funny to see from the people that were on top in NXT when I first got there to where everybody is now, where most aren't even with the company more or some are like on top still. So it's kind of crazy to see. But for me, crafting the character was kind of just getting in the mirror and just kind of going to movies and watching movies

and picking pieces and seeing what works. And the one thing I was trying to do for a while was America's greatest son where I was just pretty much just being a naive, cynical veteran, pretty much going to healer out of, oh, you want to thank me from her service now. That's cool. and just being a ass.

Playing the hill. Being a hill is the best thing in the world. Comes natural. So who came up with the name? For Steve Cutler at that time, it was a list. And Byron Saxon at that time was in charge of in the office of getting everybody's names together. And I remember turning like 50 names three multiple times. So three different lists.

And on the final list that came back to me had all. Alton Wolf was A-L-T-O-N, Wolf with an E or Steve Cutler. I was like, I'll take Steve Cutler. It's got my actual name in it. Wow. So those names, obviously, you know, after 50 tries, that's what you guys came up with. What was your, like, what was the top of your list? What was the name you really wanted?

I don't know. I want to say Duke something was up there. I love the name Duke, just because I was thinking GI Joe and just comical stuff. But then, like, after a while, once Steve Cutler came back, and one of my buddies told me is, Like just put like your name, whatever name you want to have fit you, put in a name of like a Brett heart, Stone Cold, Sean Michaels, put your name in there between that and then like keep going with other names too of like Undertaker and like if you see that on piece of paper, does it fit? Like that makes any sense.

Yeah, totally makes sense. So it's like, yeah, Brett Hart, Stone Cold, Alton Wolf, Sean Michaels. Like it's like, ah, it doesn't kind of ring. Yeah. So it's just like you try to find those names that like you want something like kind of last a long time. And as a lot of people think of generic names as being generic after a while. Like John Cena at one time was a generic name. And then it became a household name and then the company's name.

Yeah. Well, at that time, almost 20 years ago, there weren't a lot of people who had normal names. Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, Brett Hart, there weren't many. Dave Batista. He wasn't Dave Batista. No, he was just Batista. And they spelled his last name differently. Yeah.

So it's different times. And I don't know. I think more of the, like I said earlier, like towards characters now, everybody wants to be able to relate more. So having a regular name kind of, I think, fits better than some over-the-top gimmick. Well, the name you have now works perfectly. Yep. Being Steve Macklin is, I took Tommy Macklin, which I started off on the Indies with, which people for some reason think that's my real name. It's not.

Yeah, let's clear that up right now. Yeah. My actual name is Steve Kuprick or Steve N. Kubrick. So I took Steve from Steve Cutler, kept that. which helped me. And then now I took the Macklin from the Tommy Macklin and brought them both together. So now I am officially Steve Macklin.

You could have a great Stanley Kubrick gimmick if you wanted. Could. Or I would have just been some Russian spy. Is there any relation to the great Stanley Kubrick? No, unfortunately, no. You just have genius in other areas that, you know, he had genius in filmmaking. You have genius in other areas.

Yeah. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Times ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup

roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henko. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Since you mentioned film earlier, and that was some of your inspiration for your character, what were some of the films that really, you know, inspired you?

Well, like I said, watching Punisher and just kind of taken ideas from the shows. Like, now it's like Marvel. Like, Marvel is my go-to on anything wrestling related for how they kind of, if you watched it from the first Iron Man all the way through now and even the shows that are coming out, how they just have the writing, is just layers and layers of different characters, He was introducing a character here in this story where it's technically five years ago, but now we have to go back to the present. And I love that because it's pro wrestling, if you think about it.

I watched a recent interview with John Barrenthal when he was talking about how, like, deeply he dove into the character of the Punisher. And I feel like, I mean, how could you not be inspired by that? That's the one thing, too, is like you try to do these, we took some acting classes too all my time at the performance center as well, and trying to get into the, that method acting of how to find that thing in your head or that moment in your life that you can relate to and attach to a certain situation. And that was always a fun thing to do too. And now I try to do that as well with promos and even with the vignettes I put out when I got out and was released,

which impacted it up using, which I loved so much because it just was kudos to my investment on that, which was a lot of fun for me because it allowed me and have my creative juices going. And then it just made me feel like, I'm like, wow, I'm actually doing me for once. Nobody's bugging me about it. Yeah. After working on your character and putting the reps in the PC, where do you feel like you really made your biggest splash in NXT? Once Blake and I started tagging, Weston Blake now, but once he and I started tagging

and getting that, we were originally the forgotten sons. We were trying to be POS, prisoners of the system, which then that was turned out because we were trying to play towards the gimmick of here we are stuck in this system where you have all these new indie guys are coming in nothing against them it's just the way the place you're working at that time and here we are we're just trying to make that into a real life situation and that's where we kind of had fun and that's where we both kind of well at least for me i let go of just caring for everything to be perfect in wrestling uh once blake and i started tagging all the time and the road shows and we just had fun like i don't know i just i stopped caring so much about the perfection of a

match to be 100% from beginning to end and things are going to go wrong And that's usually the fun part is. Ironically, you're called the forgotten sons because you felt like you guys were overlooked. And then I feel like there was a point when you guys were actually being overlooked as the forgotten sons. Yeah, there was a few times I felt like obviously you want to be at the top. You want to be a champion. And there was times where the ball I thought was kind of dropped on where we could have went. But it's also just the creative mind of what Hunter had at that time of where he wanted to go.

especially like the dusty classics we had against Alice for Black and Rickshaw. Did it make sense for them to go over at that time probably? But at the same time, I didn't think so. In the booking standpoint, just because you knew they just got called up. That news came out like a week prior. So now they're scrambling for that. And then they go to the finals just where they're going to have a great match with the War Raiders at that time, or the Viking Raiders. And they went out and killed it.

But at the same time, you could have just built another team with a team that's so high up on the frigging card as a tag team as a war raters. And they get called up, not even the next week either. And it's just, it's insane. But that's, you can't control that. How did it go from being a tag team to being a trio and adding in Jackson Riker? I'll blame Steve Carrino for that one. We were on a live event. I want to say it was in Maryland.

And we, or either Maryland or Pennsylvania, one of those two. But we just randomly had to do a six-man, and it was great. We came back, and they said, what do you think? Like, Karino was like, you guys had all three look good together. He looks got the beard. He's kind of grungy-looking. Okay, cool. We got back to TV the following week for tapings with NXT,

and Hunter said, hey, we're going to go with this. Okay. Whatever you say, boss. No problem. And then, so that's it. It just like that, just changed overnight. Yeah, and then we took a little bit more time to wait to get debuted. and then we debuted against the street profits

and was that October. My years in time frame now is so gone on that end. But we debuted in September, October time frame that year when we became the forgotten suns. I talked to Wesley recently. He was on the show a few weeks ago, and he went into pretty deep detail

about the tweets that Jackson Riker sent. What was your opinion of those? Well, to be fair, like when I got the texts from everybody, what was going on. We were literally walking the dogs. And it's just a, it's a crappy situation because that's just the way the world is now and how you view things and what you say is going to either offend somebody or not offend somebody. And in that situation, he can have his viewpoints on the world.

And that's why Blake and I distance ourselves very quickly because we don't feel that way. Nothing against him. He's allowed to say what he wants to say. He's a free man. And that's the point of social media. You can say what you want to say. but obviously in today's cancel culture of the world, things don't work out that way. Do I agree with everything he said? Not at all.

But I also stand on the way I feel, and that's why, again, we distance ourselves quickly. And it's a situation I look back at now that kind of sparked to where I am nowadays. And at the time I was angry, now I can care less because I'm a lot happier and a lot freer. it seemed to be such a momentum killer. Like things were going so well for you guys as the forgotten sons. We were about to win the tag titles. You were about to win the tag titles. Yeah, we were about to wrestle with a new day in a good little program.

It was going that way. Wow. So Blake and I would have been the Smackdown Tag Team Champions at one point. Well, what could have been? But it's just unfortunate that something that had nothing to do with your current storyline, nothing to do with your current characters affected your characters. Round down range. You can't do anything about it.

Yeah, I guess that's it. Yeah. But I also, how did you guys get released and he didn't? Couldn't tell you. I don't know. But, you know, circling back to what you said at the start of this, everything happens for a reason. And it might have been super frustrating at the time to deal with that situation with Jackson

or to deal with the release. But things are going pretty well for you now. Yeah, I can't complain. Granted, the best part about with WWE is you're in WWE, and I always wanted to be a household name, and I thought I would have had my career there. And you look at sports across the board now, everything's a business. The loyalty and anything is gone.

It's all business, and it's all numbers. So it's one of those things where at that time I would have loved to have stayed in WWE and made a career in WWA, and who would have won't? Because I grew up loving WWE. But now, like, I see the brighter picture, and I've seen a corporate role to what it is, and especially in pro wrestling nowadays, but for where I'm at now,

I'm extremely happy to impact wrestling. Couldn't be happier. And it's fun, too, to have more of the creative input on my end as well. Yeah, feels like you can be whoever you want to be with your character and impact. And that's the one thing, too.

Impact is very big on the characters. They're very character-driven, and very story-based driven. Granted, WW and NXT are, but I just think Impact kind of sticks to those stories a little bit more, and longer at least, too, than for what's going on with current products.

There's so many talented people there, too. From top to bottom. I know. Like, from when I even got there, Deanna's like, how do you know all these people? I was like, well, half of them I've ever worked with before.

They've been in NXT or have done their trials. So it's kind of like funny to like, everything's just full circle and pro wrestling. The same people you're meeting on the way up or the same people. You meet on the way down and back up again. So who is it that you're, want to have a match with and show the world, show the impact fans, what you can really do in the ring? Currently right now, my goal is the X-Division championship, and the holder of that right now is

Josh Alexander. Really looking forward to something down the road with him possibly, if you actually wants to step up. I keep telling him on Twitter, say when. But right now, my eyes are set on Petey Williams. He wanted to kind of get involved in some of my stuff with what I wanted in Detroit Miguel, but he just couldn't leave it alone. So that's why I came out at homecoming and dropped him on his head. Is the goal, you know, maybe two years from now, three, five, whatever it is, do you want to hold a world heavyweight championship? That's the goal anywhere.

If you're not in the business to be a champion, I don't know what you're trying to do. Yeah. Also, you got to hanging up next to Deanna's behind you. I got, she's going to be, well, she's down in Triple Mena. She's going to out freaking class me probably here. soon with two. Yeah, she's had a heck of a run over the last. She's killing it.

She's another one of the talents. Like I said, everybody that gets let go, it's just crazy what you see them do and how you land on their feet. And that's also, I think, a testament to the people that are like, oh, and what they do afterwards nowadays. And she has just been killing it. I'm so proud of her every day. She just busts her ass.

She always has. And you don't see a lot of the behind the scenes. I don't think fans realize that, too. but she just she works her ass off every day. How did you guys meet by the way? Our time in NXT. And then we just kind of hit her off. And she lived in one apartment below me in our old place.

And then yeah, just kind of got together. Is this the apartment building where like literally everybody from NXT lives? No, no, you know the one I'm talking about. Everybody's very sprint out nowadays. It's kind of funny for how that all. change from the original days. But yeah, once we started kind of just seen each other and she, I was always very persistent. She was standoff at first too. And then, yeah, so we've been together about two years now. How did you eventually convince her? No, no, no, it's a good idea to go on a

date with me. I don't know. It just kind of happened. Yeah. She was like, we finally looked at each at one point. We were just like, so we dating? And she's like, yeah, I'm like, okay, well. Yeah. We're very, very strong. Friends and colleagues first. Yeah. Are you looking forward to, I mean, this could happen in impact. Are you looking forward to maybe having a match with her? No, my stance on, she knows my stance on wrestling with females.

I personally don't ever want to put my hands off female. I just raise that way, and that's my viewpoints on it. People can have their opinions on that too. But would we work together, possibly down the road? Yes. But she's obviously now a queen with the king. the drama king. And so they're doing their thing, which is great.

And she knows where I'm at and where I want to do and what my goals are and me being who I am. And like I said, X-Division title right now is my goal. Yeah. How much of who you are now was shaped by those years that you spent in the military? I would say a lot. I didn't think about it then.

Nowadays, the older I get, I feel like the wiser I get because I just keep my mouth shut and kind of like, oh, okay. this makes sense. I think a lot of people do that when they get older at some point where you just become a lot quieter and you just realize, all right, this is a life lesson here at this point.

But the hurry up and wait game, I think helped me out a lot from being military to wrestling because it's the same thing, anywhere you go in wrestling. Everything's hurry up and wait. Being patient and just being able to adapt to certain situations when things go wrong or things even go not as planned where they actually work out. And you just kind of adapt to it

and you just keep keep the ball rolling with it. And bad things are going to happen, good things are going to happen. But no matter what, there's a lot of outcomes that you can't control. And that's probably one of those things, too, is like you don't have to worry about everything you can control, worry about what you can yourself. And I think that's where a lot of my life now I just kind of focus on is what I can control, what I can control for our family, the dogs, me, D, and this house. So that's really it.

It's interesting that you say that now you've learned as you're older to just kind of shut your mouth and let things be. When you're younger, I feel like you think you know absolutely everything. You think you know it all. Then you get into your 30s and you go, oh, I didn't know anything at all. And then you realize your parents didn't know anything at all. Yeah. And they're just figuring it out as they go. Everything is just falling on the fly in life.

That's great. Yeah. We literally just feel like, okay, cool. And then you see something stupid happening. And you're just like, yeah, I'm not going to worry about that. But you're right. All you can worry about are the things that you actually have control over. And what you have control over is how you want to react to the things that are happening in front of you. Oh, yeah. And that's the one thing too. That's why like with social media, I try to just promote.

I don't really try to be very interactive on Twitter just because of the way the world is, you know, if you're going to upset somebody. And like, I don't ever have the intent to try to upset somebody if I said something in a tweet or something, but you never know what anybody's you do nowadays. So now it's just like, yeah, I'm just going to use this to promote wrestling, what shows I'm on, my merchandise. and promote impact wrestling. And then that's kind of it. The dogs. If you're on my Instagram, you see more of my dogs than anything.

There is a lot of dog photos on there. Yeah. That's just my go-to now. I'm just like, yeah, this is a little bit of my life. And people, I think other people, you know, Deanna Perasa fans, want to see photos of her

that maybe you would post that she hasn't posted. Yes. And normally at times, it's a photo that we've taken 50 million different times because the angle or the lighting wasn't correct. But usually I'll get yelled after the photo that she didn't like and vice versa.

Sometimes I don't like, oh, I don't like that photo. She's like, yeah, but I look good. And then it doesn't matter, Steve. It really doesn't matter where you look like. No, just whatever. Do you think at all about what you want to do after wrestling? It's always the question, because they used to have classes at the PC where they'd have financial people come in. Like, oh, this is for life after wrestling to get prepared.

It's just like, well, my goal is wrestling. Like, my mind isn't 100% on wrestling. I would love to be involved more in the veteran community, helping out that way. I've actually, once I was let go, I was applying to a bunch of jobs at the VA with my buddy Tanner was helping me out in that process. But something to be involved more with the veteran community and helping a lot of people with PTSD and any type of counseling. I would love to get more involved in that end just because, like, I've been there.

I've been down in the dumps where life sucks. And I don't know. I think that's a part of the world that a lot of the times people forget about forgotten sons. That's kind of also where the forgotten sun is kind of based off of, too, of kind of finding a way of like, oh, you forgot about us in every aspect of life. And those are the people who technically you shouldn't forget. Yeah. How much of PTSD did you deal with when you went back to, you know, the quote-unquote real world? It was just getting acclimated back in the real world.

Like, everybody has post-traumatic stress from anything in their life. there's always a moment. It's not just a war thing. But my thing was just adjusting back into the real world and dealing with people again. From going from a combat situation and coming back to real life and then hearing people complain and bitch about certain things that really aren't relevant because, again, you can't control. But they're going to complain anyway. But it's just one of those things too.

Again, another tool that I've taken is where I just, I don't know, things don't bother me as much anymore. But, yeah, I had my moment. I think I still have my moments here and there. But like that's where I text my buddies. Two my best friends, Barry and Raines, we text constantly or call constantly. And then even just talking to Dee, she's the first person in my life. I've been ever to just kind of just chat with. And she's open ears with everything.

And she'd be like, you want to talk about them? No, I'm just letting you know I'm not in a good mood. Yeah. I certainly can't relate from a firsthand perspective. But I've heard that when you come back from combat, it's a big adrenaline adjustment. Is that accurate? Yeah, it is because you had that adrenaline dump all the time. I think that's why I also loved wrestling.

I fell in love with it. Like, anytime to perform, my adrenaline is through the roof, and I'm up until 3, 4 in the morning and trying to come down from that high of that adrenaline rush for being in front of a crowd and having fun with it. But it's just getting that excitement again, and I think that's one thing wrestling helped me out, too. Once I got into wrestling, it took my mind off of a lot of other things

and just gave me life again and more of a purpose once I was out. It was fun. I mean, if wrestling was the thing, take your mind off of everything, how did you handle when things really hit hard with COVID and you weren't on the road like you were normally on the road? How did you deal with it? I just kind of went with it. Again, can't control it.

I love this, yeah. It was just like, so it was a weird time as well, too, because we were just getting called up and we were supposed to debut technically before mania or after many, we weren't told. But we got told, um, nils, but we got told, uh, nil, nilmated. In February, Blake and I and Riker, we got pulled aside before we wrestled the prison young veterans, that this is going to be our last match, make them look good because you guys are going to Smackdown. I laughed in Hunter's face. I was like, ha. Hell yeah.

Get us out of here. It's been seven years. But it was a great moment. And then once kind of COVID hit, we had a couple live events left to do in NXT on the road in coconut shows down here in Florida. Yeah. And that's when COVID kind of started canceling everything. and then everything moved to the PC, and then they said,

hey, we're going to bring you guys in right after Mania. You guys are getting called up, and then, of course, we debut on the PC with no crowd. Great, an awesome moment to debut on SmackDown, but not in the building that we were just stuck in for the past seven and a half to seven years each. Right, yeah. So, but yeah, it's what happens.

And like I said, we had the ball rolling. We hit the ground run once we got called up, and then the tweets went out now. I love, though, your attitude of the idea that you can only control what you can control. And I think that this is why you've been as successful as you have been thus far. And it's why you're going to continue to be successful in your life and in your career. Thank you. Yeah. No, I just, I don't know, I think everybody as an athletic standpoint when you're in that, in that, I can't even think of the word. But when you're

on that spectrum of just being a professional athlete in a certain way, like I just, you got to worry about you control what you can take care of your family and everything kind of just falls in the line and i think it goes across the board in life in general for anybody just do the best you can and what you can control and if things are going to go bad things are going to go good just enjoy it when it happens and then learn from it when it doesn't yeah i think it's also important with that in mind to remember that what's happening right now is only what's happening right now this is not reflective of how things are going to be tomorrow or next week or next month yeah it's just everything's ever changing and just do what you can. I love it, man. I end every interview, but the same question,

I talk about gratitude because it's something that just drives my life. And I'm curious for you, Steve, what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? My family. I have a very supportive family from top to bottom with my mom, my stepdad, an MD. And the dogs. And the dogs, too. But you just have just my family generally, even my cousins, my aunts and mom, was everybody's always been supportive of what I've done. And they knew what I wanted to do is being a professional wrestler. And once I started doing it, they just said, you're all in on it. Just keep doing you.

That's definitely number one is my family. And then I'm grateful for my house for my time with WWE to be able to afford the house that I live in. And Dionne and I live in and take care of it that way. I just wrestling in general. I'm very grateful for professional wrestling. It's, again, paid for my house. It's paid many things forward in life, and then many things it's given me,

and I try to give back to it so much. As much as I can, anytime I'm out there performing, I try to be the best that I can be. Well, I'm so excited to see what's next for you an impact. I think there are endless possibilities for you there. There's a lot of people there. I'm looking forward to working with, too, and that's the one fun part is it's a new roster.

The roster, again, from top to bottom, is so damn talented. And, like, even if you look around at it, too, I was having a conversation with somebody there, the last tapings. And they even said, like, this is the first time looking at an impact from top to bottom where it looks like a professional wrestling show with the way everybody looks.

Everybody presents themselves as a star. Everybody, it just, everything is, I love it there. I can't. There's not one complaint in me about it of being there and that atmosphere that it has. And it's just a good, where everybody wants to go out, kick ass. Everybody look good at the same time

and put on a great show. Love it. Steve, thank you so much. This has been fantastic. Oh, thank you, Chris. This is great again. Hopefully we get to do it again soon. Let's do it in person next time.

That'd be great. I would love to do it. More in-person interviews are better than Zoom. Oh, my gosh, you're telling me. Yeah, awesome. Thanks, man. Thank you. Well, there we go.

I hope there was a nugget or two or multiple nuggets that will stick with you from that conversation. Big thank you to Steve for joining. for joining us on the show. Big thank you to you for deciding that this was the podcast that you were going to listen to today. Could you do me a favor and check right now to make sure you're subscribed?

Because I don't want you missing out on any future episodes. And share this with someone who you know will love it. Take a screenshot, tag us on social media. Steve is at Steve Macklin. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And as you know, we end every episode, every interview, asking my guest to list off three things that they're grateful for. And that's how I start and end every day. And the idea here is for you to

hopefully start thinking in that way. Man, if these people can be grateful for these somewhat simple things in their life, man, I can also be grateful myself. That's what I'm thinking here. And I think this quote from Oprah Winfrey says it best. Be thankful for what you have and you'll end up having more. If you concentrate on what you don't have, you will never, ever have enough. Be great. Be grateful. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today.

No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning. to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Ticket man, job, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef?

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