Insight with Chris Van Vliet - The Godfather On The Gimmick He HATED, Ho Train, His Terrifying Papa Shango Voice

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Charles Wright (@TheGodfather) is a retired professional wrestler and WWE Hall of Famer. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Las Vegas to discuss his wrestling career as Papa Shango, Kama and The Godfather, his first memories of working with The Undertaker and The Rock, why he hated The Goodfather and Right To Censor, why he missed his cue in the main event of WrestleMania 8, being Owen Hart's scheduled opponent for Over The Edge, receiving a Hall of Fame induction and more! Quote I'm thinking about: “Dreams are not what you see in your sleep, they are the things that don’t let you sleep.” - Cristiano Ronaldo Sponsors: VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv MANSCAPED: Get 20% off plus free shipping when you use the code CHRISVAN at https://manscaped.com ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv MAREK HEALTH: Get a 10% discount on Marek Health's Optimization Package with code CVV: https://marekhealth.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at https://bluechew.com ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/ PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yeah, welcome back to another one. Here on Insight, I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Hope you had a great weekend. A very happy Canadian Thanksgiving to all my friends and family north of the border who were celebrating yesterday. My mom and dad have been visiting for the last week, so it was nice to spend the holiday with them. Also, thank you for being with us on this episode.

And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. hit an elbow drop on that follow button on Spotify or Apple Podcasts if you haven't done so already. Yeah, actually hit an elbow drop. Don't use your thumbs. Like get up on something and drop an elbow on that follow button. My friends, it's time once again for everybody to come aboard the... I'm expecting you to say it there. Yeah, the Ho Train.

The Godfather is back on the show. And, man, Charles Wright has some fantastic stories. He's 63 years old, by the way. You would never know that by looking at him. The man looks amazing. He's in insane shape. And I know he's best known as the godfather. But think of how many other gimmicks he's had.

The Soul Taker, Kama, Kama Mustafa, Papa Shango, the good father. It's just so great here to dive into like what really drives him. and also his very long friendship with The Undertaker. Great conversation. Snap a screenshot. Let us know you're listening. Tag us online. He's at The Godfather on Instagram.

I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the Godfather. Timer on the show now. Yeah, good to see you. Yes, sir, man. Two-timer.

Yeah. I've seen you, and I've also seen you twice this week. What a week? What a week? What a wonderful coincidence that we were both in Austin at the same time, both doing The Undertaker's podcast, and then what a dinner that night. Man, you guys really ate. Oh, you know.

I didn't, I don't know if you noticed, but I did not partake in the way that you guys did. I was like, it was weird calling the Undertaker Mark. I was like, Mark, what are you ordering? He was like, I'm going with the cowboy rib eye. And I'm like, I am also, I had my eye on that. But if you're getting it, then I'm getting it too. Yes. You're lean and mean these days.

Trying hard. Yeah. I've dropped since I've had my, in the last year, I've had my hip and my knee replaced. And I started, I was 310, 312, and now I'm about 245, 250. And I feel great. I hope I look great. You look great. But I feel great, but I've really changed how I eat, when I eat, what I eat.

And I've really changed a lot about my lifestyle. What's changed the most? The way I eat. So what are you eating now? I eat. I try not to eat, you know, the basics. I try not to eat no sugar. I keep my carbs down.

I don't eat past 5 o'clock at night. I don't eat till 10 o'clock. I keep the shots of Jack Daniels to a minimum unless takers around. I'll call them taker, not Mark. And, you know, just no bread. I have no fast foods. Yeah.

And not because it's unhealthy. healthy, but for some reason, as I've gotten older, I don't like red meat. And nothing about being grass fed or none of no, no. It's just I don't like every time I do these autograph signings on the weekends, we always look for barbecue spots. And maybe because it's a black thing, I don't know, but everybody always wants to take me to barbecue spots, which is cool. But then I get turkey or I get chicken.

And they're like, dude, you got to get the ribs. I got to get the brisket. But I'm just, it's kind of weird. I can't explain it. You just don't like the way it makes you feel? I don't have an answer. I don't like the way it tastes anymore. It's just, I don't know.

It just doesn't turn me on. Yeah, it was like we ate a lot of food. And you didn't eat a lot of food. I had chicken. Yeah. And a salad. Yes. And I was like, are we getting drinks?

Like this feels like a special occasion because it was Undertaker and was Godfather with Midian and Maven and the rest of us. Like it feels like a special occasion. We should get a drink. you're like, I can drink, but I'm probably not going to. I was like, ah, I can respect that. You know, you have no idea. I don't think you were there when Taker did his show here in Vegas, and we talk about it.

But I made a complete fool of myself drinking that day. And since then, I've had a different outlook on drinking Jack. So can I drink? Yes, I can drink a lot, unfortunately. but I tried to drink as little as possible. There's something to be said about drinking a clear liquor and drinking a brown liquor. Right. And I'm with you.

Something about drinking a brown liquor like Jack Daniels? I don't know, man. That's just not the same. I really, I swear that people are watching this. Like, yeah, you always say that. I try to keep it to two things I do on airplanes, which you're not supposed to do one of them. And people are like, what are you going to say? Uh-oh, uh, two things, you know, I believe it or not, on the road for some reason,

for some reason I chew tobacco. I dipped snuff on the road. For some reason, once again, don't ask me to explain it, but I do. And, uh, and I drink Jack Daniels and Coke are in Cokes on the plane. So you're some reason. Chewing tobacco and Chuck and Jack Daniels and Coke are the two things you do on a plane? That's the two bad things. Oh, okay.

that's it. Do you try to always give me up here? You better be careful with me. Uh-oh. I'm in a very good mood. I love it. I love it.

It's so good to see you. Yes, it is. It was so awesome to walk into that restaurant. And oh my gosh, there's Charles. And you just, you have this energy about you that I love. I feel like you've never been in a bad mood in your life. You know, as I've gotten older,

I've become wiser and smarter and nicer. and two things that changed my life completely. And we might bring up Mark's name or takers a lot because he is my best friend. And that has nothing to do with the wrestling. He is my best friend. So his name might come up a lot, but he knows me better than most. And two things that changed my life at 27 years old. And that's a whole other story that we should get in about Pappashanga,

what actually happened to him. But I tried cannabis for the first time at 27. seven years old. And at that time, and I'm not mentioning nobody else's name, just mine. I'm doing somas, vicodians, halcyons,

placidils, purcissets. I mean, I'm doing all this crap and drinking a bottle of Jack Daniels, but I won't smoke weed. No, I'm not going to do that. But I'll do all the rest of this stuff, but I won't smoke weed.

Well, I went through a really hard time as Papa Shango. I had to leave. And somebody got me to try, for the first time in my life. And it really like, whoa, my shoulders don't hurt like they used to, you know? And I'm like, you know what? I feel like going to the gym.

And I went to the gym and I had the best workout I ever had in my life. And then we went to someplace to like Taco Bell or something like that. And I had one of those old nasty burritos that I don't even think is meat. I don't know what's inside of it. But I had one of those and it was the best taco ever had in my life. and it really got me off of all that stuff. Will I have a shot of Jack? Yes.

Two surgery replacements. I wouldn't even, I won't do the pills. And Mark would call me and I'm like, take, I'm telling you, I do the pills. All they do is make me tired. The cannabis makes me feel better and it makes me what's okay. I need to stretch. And I always tell people about cannabis with me. It saved my life.

It made me a better person, that and my wife. but it's not for everybody. It's not for everybody. It works very well for me. It's funny because at dinner, Mark was saying, you've had such an impact on his life, too. He's like, I didn't have any tattoos before I met you. I didn't like riding bikes before I met you.

And, I mean, he's joking about a lot of this stuff. But it's funny how both of you guys have influenced each other's lives. When I met him, I mean, I was a full-blown biker. And when I met him, it was hard for me to understand where this big white dude didn't drink Jack, didn't listen to country music, didn't write Harleys, didn't have tattoos. And I just couldn't understand it

because the crowd of people at that time in my life were hardcore bikers. And so I just tell people that I opened his eyes up to a different way of life. And that son of a gun took to it very well. Remember the first time you met The Undertaker? Yes. Where was it? Memphis, Tennessee. I just worked a program with Loller.

They didn't know what to do with me. I'm as green as Kermit the Frog. All right. Taker's been in the business a couple years now. So they said, hey, we're going to bring this big, tall, white kid into work against you. He's been in the business a couple years. Maybe we can do something with you. So Mark's driving in from Texas. I never get a chance to meet him. Mind you, everything I've done so far is what Jerry Lawler has told me to do in the ring. know nothing, just what somebody's telling me what to do, which is a whole other story. So I met him in the ring.

We have a match where I really think, I'm like, oh, here's another one of these big-ass white boys I'm going to have to deal with. And so it was a little physical in the ring with me and him. He tells me to throw him out. So I throw him out. I go after him. I'm chasing around one corner, the other corner. I guess he found the cheer, which, what he was looking for.

he hit me over the head with a cheer so hard that you know the cartoons when you see the stars and little birdies I swear I see that and he looked down to me he said do you want to do this the easy way or the hard way and I said I think let's do this to the easy way and from that point we became really good friends from that day how did wrestling find you or did you find wrestling you were working at a bar right I was working at a bar called the Crazy Horse Saloon. Okay. And they were filming the movie over the top,

which is a Vester Stallone arm wrestling picture. Yeah. And a lot of those guys, and I think Scott Norton was in that movie, but a lot of those guys would come to the bar.

And I'm now, dude, if I can send you some pictures, I'm powerlifting, I'm 6-5, I'm 340, I got a 2,000 pound total. I'm strong,

I'm big, and they're just looking at me going, I'm tattooed. They're like, dude, you should be a wrestler. They're at my bar all the time. And so I really, I did not watch wrestling when I was young. I grew up in the 70s. I mean, I'm not afraid to say I'm 63 years old.

Man, you look great. Thank you. Look at this. But I grew up in the 70s, and back then in the Bay Area, roller derby was much bigger than wrestling. And I might be hard to believe, but it was. You'd go to the Cow Palace and wrestling would sell out half a house. and Roller Derby would sell it out.

And so I grew up on roller derby. So when they came to me, I actually said, I don't want to do that phony ass wrestling. And then they're like, have you heard of this guy, Bam Bam Bigelow? And I'm like, the dude with the tattoos on his head. Yeah, yeah, I've heard of him. They're like, well, he made a million dollars last year.

And I swear to God, I went, wrestling? And all my friends were telling me, dude, it's crazy. I was a whole different person back then. That was the guy, Bear. The taker calls me Bear. I don't know if you noticed that. Yeah, I did. He calls me bear.

And that's a whole different cat. But that was bear, man. And I made a couple calls. I was in wrestling school for maybe a month at which time. And I'm just going to be honest. I'm going to to topless clubs. I'm chasing women. I'm not going to wrestling school.

I'm being big bear, biker bear. Yeah. And these guys in New Jersey are like, dude, we ain't never seen a black guy like this. Big tattooed biker chewing to bull. back going to drink a jack and you know doing my thing and jerry luller seen me right and uh jerry luller my very first match ever never learning nothing i mean nothing uh is against jerry luller in memphis on a monday night and i go over one two three wow and all i did is jerry got in the ring with me and he goes he goes do this do that do this he goes oh you'll be all right he goes you're athletic

enough. He goes, all I want you to do is listen to me and do everything I tell you to do, no matter if you think it's stupid or not, do what I tell you. And that's how I broke and do the business. Wow. Your first match against Jerry the King. Wow. That crazy? That's pretty wild. What's crazy about you is think of how many identities you've had. Think of how many people you've been throughout your life. Of course, you've been Charles throughout it, but you've been bare. And we can go through the whole list of all the different wrestling characters you've been. But what's been the through line for you? I best, the best thing for me is Godfather. Because Godfather is me. Being a pimp or all that,

that's besides the point. It was so nice to be able to just be you. And Godfather is me. I mean, you know me now. You've been around me. I act like this all the time. Yeah. I don't act hard. I don't act me. I try to be funny. And I just enjoy life now, which has made me a better person. So, I mean, everything has basically come to just the pinnacle for me was being the godfather and being able to be myself on TV. I don't know if you know this.

I was never scripted, ever was I scripted unless they wanted me to mention a pay-per-view or a town. They backed in, they would not ask me what I was going to say. anytime. I had carte blanche. Wow. Is that crazy? It's pretty wild. They just wanted me to entertain them. How did you come up with the classic line that everybody said? It's time. Once again, and you know the rest, of course.

To be honest, again, and a lot of things would be, I'll come back to smoking. But that's me and a friend of mine named Kyle Bale on my days off, doing bong hits in my house, coming up with silly things to say that I would say, I'm going to say this on TV this week and I'm going to say this on TV this week and looking at high times and looking at things that was available back then and just, I tell you, who came up

with the, remember the Ho Train where I would wind up in the corner and smash you? Guess who came up with that hell? Shane McMahon. How did that come together? We're in the ring and Shane says, you know what, I want you to, we got to do something where you do that splash in the corner.

He goes, I want you to, I can remember it like it was yesterday. He goes, I want you to, shoot the guy in the corner. He goes, don't leave him there too long. He goes, but I want you to wind up like a train, like a ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch.

And he goes, and then smash the guy, and he goes, we're going to call that the hoe train. And he goes, and it'll be like smoke train, but it'll be the, I can't do it right now. But that's where we got that from.

Shane McMahon. Wow. Let's take it back to when you became Papa Shanga. Actually, even before that, who was the soul-taker? The soul taker was Biker Bear. And this tattoo on my forearm right here, I'm sure they can't get it. But that is the soul taker.

And when I got to Memphis, they were trying to come up with the name. And he goes, well, what's that name of that guy on your wrist? I'm like, well, that's the soul taker. He takes. I don't know if you don't. But I've got a lot of women. They don't have their clothes on. They don't have to be kind of, well, it's.

what it is. But that's where it came from right there. And what was the Soul Taker character? He, I don't really know. He was kind of a biker. He was more of a biker. He should have been more of a voodoo guy,

but he ended up being more of a biker, you know. And then the funny thing is after I work with Mark as mean Mark, callous, we had a couple matches. They put us together as a tag team. We were called Death Express, and we worked in Memphis's Death Express. It looked kind of like a road warrior rip-off with chaps and all that type of stuff. How did you become Papa Shango? The WWE hired me.

I had a tryout. I was in Germany. When I got back from Germany for a year, when I got back from Germany, they gave me a call. And they'd like, we want to give you a tryout. So I go for a tryout. And Vince hires me. And he says, you've got a body of a monster. He says, but you have a baby face.

He goes, so we want you to just go home, keep training. Because at that point, I'd lost like 60, 70 pounds trying to get in shape. And he goes, go home, relax. And then he called me one day. He called me one day. He says, Charles, I want you to go rent the movie, live and let die. And he goes, there's a voodoo character in there. It's a James Bond film.

And I already knew the film. I was already familiar with everything. And he goes, and most importantly, I want you to get this guy's lap down. And when you win and when you address the people, you, he goes, I want you to all, yeah, but that's where it came from. They wanted to hide my face

because they thought I had a baby face. How did you find that voice? I don't know. I mean, I got a deep voice anyway. It was just, it was easy. You know, it's slant. It's easier than the whole. train note.

The outtrain notes way up here. I got her. You're a soprano. I need some help to hit that. What a range you have from the baritone to the you know how many people you freaked out as a kid, especially the stuff you did with Warrior? Oh my God.

It's so funny now because at these signings that I do now, Papashango has become more popular than Godfather. It's wild. And people are like, you have no idea. And people 35 to 43, somewhere in that range. for kids when I was doing that. I'm right there. Yeah, and they're like, dude, you have no idea how you impacted my life and how you scared

and how afraid I was of you. And I was like, that's pretty cool. People thought you actually cursed the ultimate warrior. Yes. I mean, he was everybody's Superman. Yeah. Yeah. And then you, I put him down for a minute.

You were like his kryptonite. You know what? A lot of people, I might only be able to do this one time. A lot of people talk about him, but he was cool. with me. And for him to put that gimmick over like that, I mean, that was cool of him. That was reaching. That was really reaching. But I feel like that's what made the Papashango character really get over. It's like that run you had with him, that made it feel like, oh, this is real. Yeah. I was so lost to that. It's so funny. I was so lost to that.

I mean, I was so far from a voodoo man. I mean, I was literally a biker that they paid. made it up, it made a voodoo man. But the very first time I went out there, I came back and Chief Stromble goes, what was that? Like, what did he? What was that? He goes, dude out there acting like a normal wrestler and stuff. He goes, you're a voodoo man.

I want you shaking and this and that. So I actually had to, they had to take my makeup off, repaint me up, and I had to go out and do it again with the same guy. And that's where I started shaking and doing all that stuff. Because I know anyway, that's that's kind of wild, didn't it? Can you give me a little Papa Shango right now? Warrior, once you enter my dark circle, you enter. Beware, warrior.

Beware of Papa Shango. Oh, it's so good. No, I need this thing to work one time after that. It's so good. It's funny seeing you at conventions because if it's a two-day convention, your godfather one day. Right. Your Papashanga the next day.

Do you tell people which day they're buying? Yeah, they let them know. They advertise. Usually Papi Shango first and Godfather the second. It's like two, it is two completely different people, but it's wild to see it because you're interacting with people in a totally different way. The line is different.

I noticed that. The line on day one. Oh, my God, I'm telling you. People have seen, I mean, with great respect for you, they've seen a lot of the godfather.

You don't do Papa Shango as often. No, but I've been doing them. I'm actually, I've been signing with Boogie. Me and Boogie, you've been signing together. And,

and no people, even though we're brothers in wrestling, even though we have the same last name right, we are not officially brothers. People think you guys are brothers. Yeah, but I do love the dude, a good dude.

I got to have him on the show. I don't know. I haven't had him. He'll paint up. Oh my gosh. So then I'm interviewing boogeyman? No, you'll enter. Yes, he'll paint up.

Or will I talk to Marty? No, you're going to talk to boogeyman. Well, that just sounds terrifying. He's going to bring worms to? He usually does. Oh, my gosh. It's nasty, but he always has those worms with him. I don't know.

I'm like, where do you get that? Where do you get at worms in St. Louis, Missouri at 8 in the morning. Where are you getting worms? I imagine he has a pretty good relationship with ever, whoever fishing stores. whatever cactus shop is in town. He must. Good dude, though. But his makeup

that he wears takes like three hours to put on. What? And the same amount of hours to take off. Oh, my gosh. But he can literally jump in a pool with that on and it won't come off. Oh, it's like latex, right? Yes. Man. It's just crazy how detailed it is.

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How come Papa Shango couldn't continue? Why couldn't you have your entire career with Papa Shango? Papa Shango went through a very, very ugly divorce. My second wife, when I went through an ugly divorce, I was in a very, very bad place. Biker Bear came out. And back then, mind you, there's no social media. There's no laptops.

I didn't think there was ESPN. So usually there's nobody taking pictures of you on your phone. You know, if they got a picture of you, they were, but I was getting into a lot of fights. real fights and Taker was pulling me off of people and it was getting ugly. So I went in there with Vince and Mark and we decided it would be best if I went home and got my mind right before somebody got hurt. I know that's wild, but I was a different person back then.

And then how much longer was it until you came back to WWA? You know, I'm not sure. The thing about me is I always had the luxury of being either part of the, you know, strip club or part owner of a strip club. So I always had money coming in. Wrestling, that could have been one of my problems. Wrestling for me, the money's great, but wrestling for me was to have fun. And when I was not having fun, I would go to Vince and say, hey, Vince, you know, I'm not

making much money. I'm going through the tables every night with the dead leaves. I hate this travel. I could be at home looking at naked women making just so much money. Vince was so cool with me, man. He'd let me go. And then they would call me back

and I'd be like, no, I'm not ready to come back. And the reason they got me to come back is they offered me a Harley. And I'm like, if I can ride a Harley, I'll come back. And then I only had it for a short time. He took it away from me because it was crazy. They were renting them at the time before Vince had, you know, access to a bunch of Harleys.

And so once they took the Harley away from me as comma, I was done. And as Godfather, once they made me good father, I was done. And then when Vince, Vince was fighting for me the whole time. Believe me, bro. Vince was a big of like, Godfather, I'm fighting for you, bro. But they were getting rid of the DX and the sucket and the puppies and the Valvenuses. And they were going more and more PG.

And finally, they could only go so far with me. So when Vince said, it's so funny because when Vince says, Charles, we're going to do this and that. And all I said was, so no more hose? And he goes, da-da-da-da-da-da. All I heard was, bye-bye. I was like, so no more hose. He goes, Charles, no more hose.

And I'm like, well, finish me up there, bro. I'm done. He's like, wait a minute, wait a minute. So we agreed to work out a program. And we did that and then I was done. So the hose is so, it's so funny. Because when you watch your WWE Hall of Fame induction, they're talking, like they're talking about it.

but they're talking around it. Right. They're like, he had a certain type of train, you know? And he had, of course, the women around him, yes. The godfather in his form would not last long in these times at all. The godfather wouldn't exist in current day wrestling, right? No.

It would offend too many people. Yeah. It's so funny how that works. And I was just having fun. I think it was so funny when you would come to the ring and you'd be like, You can either fight me or you can have the entire night with one of my hos. Oh, my God. Is that like sex traffic?

Yeah. It's certainly something that wouldn't happen in current day wrestling. Thank God. I'm so lucky when people compare errors and this and that and which one's better. I always tell people I'm just thankful and lucky that I was part of the attitude error. Yeah. I mean, it is a strong argument. argument that can be made that that's the greatest era in wrestling.

Hey, I'm not here to make that argument. I'm just saying I was lucky to be the godfather during that time. The craziest part is your wife came up with a godfather. Is that crazy or what? Yeah. I mean, everything from, I didn't, I wanted to wear only, I wanted to be a mean pimp. Yeah. I wanted to be a mean one.

And then she's like, no, let's go this route. And she basically said, instead of trying to act to be something that you're not, just go out there and be your high-ass crazy, have a good time self at this point of your life. And once people see that side of you, they're going to love you because they're going to see it's genuine and you're just, you know, you got to love the Godfather. And that's why. And I went to Vince and I told him, I'm like, Vince, these people see enough wrestling. They really do. I'd like, let me go out there and just entertain them. Let me go out there, just entertain them. And that's what I did. I heard, I can't remember who said it, but I heard a great quote and it's so

accurate. It's people remember moments. They don't remember matches. And with your career, they remember your entrance. And they remember like, you know, doing the train in the ring. They remember those things. Right. The matches almost come secondary at all that.

Yeah, you're right. It was more about entertaining. Could I have worked? Could I work? Could I work? Yes. But, I mean, that character, I really, you know, one time, Take or Toeadue, you should be more serious to do that. And I'm like, you know, I'm a role. the way I'm going, bro, because I've enjoyed myself.

I make it buddy. I got my businesses at home. I'm cool. I'm going out as the godfather. How did you approach Vince Swift? This is my idea. I want to be a pimp that just has a blast. Me and I was wrestling Bradshaw, and we're wrestling every night. Nobody cared about him. Nobody cared about me. Who were you at this time? I was Kamma Mustafa.

Yeah. Okay. I just got out of the nation. I was just, you know, they weren't doing nothing with me. they weren't doing nothing with Bradshaw. And so we're wrestling each other, no reaction. So one night, I'm like, Jack Lanz, I think God bless, God rest of the soul. Jack's the agent. And we're like, Jack, let's try something.

Because now I'm growing my hair and our hair is getting longer. And I'm kind of dressing. To me, it's more bikers, but I always wear these hats. So the people start calling me a Pimp. And so I go out there and I just grab the mic and I'm like, you know, I'm just going to come out and say, I'm a Pimp. and see how I got a little reaction right there from you. I said, but what you don't know is right here in Las Vegas,

man, they got some of the best holes ever born. Okay, now I'm getting a little reaction. Now mind you, we're getting no reaction before. And I'm like, how I know that, and I'd start pointing out people. That was one of my old ones. Basically, I'd offer John. I'm like, listen, I didn't even have girls. I'd say in the back, in a limo right now,

I got five of the freakiest hose you've ever seen in your life. And I know what type of freak your cowboy ass? It is. You know, I'd say I'd get into it. And so I'm like, this, I'm going to kick your ass anyway. I'm like, why don't you take these hose have a good time? And like, what do you people think? And now the people are like, take the hose.

Take the hose. And the whole place is going, take the, I'm like, they're telling you what to do, man. They don't want to see me and you wrestle. Take them hose. All right? I was keeping it real. And then Johnny would take them. And then I would heal on the people.

And then I'd turn my back. Johnny would come back, hit me with the lips. Harriet, one, two, three. I jump up, put my hat back on and say, man, Pippin, ain't easy? And see that? We went from no reaction from the people to have an enchant.

And so Vince heard about it. And so when we went to TV, Vince says, Charles, whatever you're doing, I hear it might have legs. And he says, you think you can get me some girls. And I'm like, really, me? Get some girls. So I grabbed Taker and the Harris boys, Ron and Don Harris.

And we went to a local strip club, grabbed some girls, brought them back, put them on TV. Do you just say, hey, do you want to be on wrestling tonight? I don't remember. We were probably at the club the night before, you know? Plus, I had taken her with me. They know who he is. When you were doing this, were you still your other character?

You're still an MMA fighter? Yes. Yes. And they were calling me Godfather because one day towards the end of the run with the nation, I told Rock, I'm like, hey, call me the Godfather, because all I did was say, power to the nation when everybody would lift their, or whatever I said. And he called, I said, call me the Godfather.

So in his interviews, he started calling me the Godfather. The Godfather of the nation, the Godfather, you know? Yeah. And then people started calling me the Godfather. Man. Without any, they just started calling me the Godfather. Did you immediately see that the Rock had something special when it came to WWE? Yes.

Yes. But, I mean, I was put in the nation just because of him. I was put in the nation to make it bigger and, you know, bigger and blacker and make it more strong because I came in, I was supposed to be Papa Shango. And Vince literally called me to the office and says, change of plans. We're going to do this or we're going to do that. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, let me ask you one question.

Because I signed a good contract. I'm like, I make the same, right? He goes, yes, you do. I'm like, well, then I'm down. I didn't want to put that face paint on anyway, you know? when you officially became the godfather, how were they getting women every town that you went to? Believe it or not, I think Bruce Pritchard at first was in charge of getting it, and then it was passed on to other people. And then it became to the point where clubs, strip clubs were calling the WWE at the time saying,

hey, we have girls for you, for we'd like to use, you know, and it was, I would literally, I laughed because I was having such a good time. I would literally come in and depending on how much time I had I would have six, seven girls to choose from and depending on how much time I had, that's how many girls I would use. So I would have my pick of the girl. It was crazy, man.

There were some wrestlers that were hoes early on, right? I don't like to mention it. I feel bad at better. We don't need to mention names. Everybody that's watching. I was just that signing with them. And I can't even go around them now and they were doing me a favor at the time.

can't even go around them now because they're like, hey, look it, there's your whole, there's your PIP, the Godfather, now they're Hall of Famers and stuff. I stay away from that. Out of respect to those. If they want to, if people want to look that up, it's out there.

But yeah, there's a few of them. Man, look at you. Yeah. When did this conversation happen with right to censor of like, Godfather isn't a thing anymore. You're now the good father. When it happened?

one. When it happened, like I said, I was done. I told Vince finished me up. And then the jokester that he is, he put the tag team belts on me and bull. It kept me there even longer. And, you know, he was more poking fun out of him. He was hoping that maybe we can get back to the Godfather in some form. And they tried to bring the Godfather back. But it just, it didn't work because it was Godfrey. I was no longer a pimp. They were no longer hos. You couldn't talk about smoking weed. You couldn't, couldn't, couldn't. And people didn't want that.

Yeah. You know, they wanted a godfather in rare form. Right to censor got a lot of hate, you know, like from the fans. Like people hated right to censor. You're taking away Valvinus. You're taking away the godfather. You know, on a shoot, nobody hated it more than me. Just because the fact, man, I'm telling you, it was, I mean, as much as Rick Flair is Rick Flair, the godfather's me.

And it was just, when you took it away from me, it just like, oh, and it just took the air out of it. And I was done. I just, I did my best. And RTC, just the music alone had serious heat. Yeah. But I did my best, but that was the only time in wrestling that I really wasn't happy. And I was just waiting for it to come to an in. So what is the real story of WrestleMania 8 and everything that happened there?

Oh, keep going. If you read some headlines, they will say. You read some headlines. Okay. Let me read these headlines. You missed your cue. I might want to hit before we go there. Hopefully it works one more time.

The headlines, the story may say, depending on where you look, that you missed your cue. The story. So let's set the record straight. Okay. Let me get right here for example. Okay. Just to deal with this. With a smile on his face.

All right. I'm Papa Shango. All right. I'm just happy to be there and they're building me and I got thrown in that position. So they tell me it's and I think it was in, where was it, Indy? I think so. Wherever it was, it was a long, long run. So they tell me, do not go.

And it was guerrilla monsoon. He's got rest his soul, but I'll say his name now. It was guerrilla monsoon. That's why you always hear guerrilla position. And he said, do not go until, we tell you to go. And so I'm sitting there like, okay, and all I knew is what I had to do when I got there, what I had to do.

What happened before that, after that I wasn't concerned with. I just knew what I had to do when I got there. And so I'm sitting there like a track star straightway to go. And then all of a sudden he goes, oh, go, go, go. They gave me a late cue. And they're not used to giving people cues. They're used to us being professionals and taking off on your own. Yeah.

So he forgot for a minute. And that was that. That was that. Why do people think it was on you? Well, I mean, I don't know. You'd have to ask them. But, you know, the funny thing is I never heard about it ever from anybody until I was done wrestling, doing autographs signings. And people would be like, hey, what happened?

Why were you late? And I'm like, what do you mean? Was I late? Because, I mean, I never watched the match after. I just knew what I had to do when I got there. And, yeah. And so I'd never heard about it till later. the reason I never heard about it was because it wasn't my fault.

And the person, Griller probably is like, ah, I gave him the Q. Damn, sorry. And then it is what it is. And I ran as fast as I could. It was a long run. And then that's it. You know, it is what it is. There you go.

When you're at these signings, what's the question that keeps popping up for you? The guys are where the hose at. And your response? Do you really want me to say what I say when they say that? I say usually when they're smart asses like, hey, Godfather, where's the holes? I usually say, then bitches are working. That's where their motherfuckers are.

And then they look at me like, okay. But that's usually my fucking response. And then if any women come up, what are they saying? I love you. We love you. I want to be one of your hos. It was so cool. We used to watch love you on TV.

Oh, my God. Can't take a picture. Oh, you're my fit. You know, like that. Yeah. You get a lot of love. Yeah, a lot of love. You don't get much hate.

Did you think that you were going to get the call for the Hall of Fame when you got it? No. I'm like, they have to make a special category for me. What do you mean? Pup. Come on. No. It's so.

Mark Carrano called me and I'm still under a legends contract with the DeV. I've been on it since 2003. I've been on a legends contract. Wow. A long time. Yeah. And back then you'd go to WrestleMania every year. you might not see you on TV, but you were doing signings and what have you.

And so I was on my way to the gym and Mark Carano called me. And he's like, you're coming to WrestleMania, right? And I'm like, yeah, I'm coming. You know that. He's like, you bring your family. I'm like, well, why want I bring my family? And I'm like, no, I'm just coming by myself, bro. He's like, well, I just want to let you know.

There's the first time you're on the ballot. And Vince said definitely we're putting you in the Hall of A. And I'm like, no way, really? And yeah, that's how the call case. So that was really cool, man. Did they let you decide who's going to induct you? No. They decide.

I asked for Taker. And they're like, well, at this point, we can't use Ham or this and that. How about Ron and John? And I'm like, oh, that's cool. I'm going there. They know a lot about me. It's a legendary career. And when you think about it, how many characters in total from start to finish that you

portray five? Five? So let's go through them all. We start with Soul Taker, is it? Oh, that's six. I was just talking about the WW. No, like start, like very start of the career. I was Soul Taker.

I worked in the Carolinas with George Scott as Baron Samiti, with I was Cowboy Bob Orton. Then I was Sir Charles. And then I was Papa Shango, Kama, Kama Mustafa, Godfather, Goodfather. Eight. Yes. And all the time being Charles. Well, the Godfather being Charles.

Do you run into trademark issues with the Godfather, with the films? Actually, I have trade my own Godfather and Papa Shango. Even though I'm under a legend, I've trademarked both of those. WWE didn't have the trademarks? Apparently, they let it go. And when they let it go, I picked it up. They let a lot of guys at my era. They let the trademarks go.

They didn't protect it. And so Mike Dawkins is my lawyer. He called me right away and he's like, hey, hey, hey, hey. You need to jump on this right away. I got Papa Shango right away. It took a while. It took two tries on Godfather because of the movie. So we had to separate a little bit on some merchandise and stuff.

But I got that too. But the WWE has never messed with me about using my name ever, ever. What about the movie studio? Never. Huh. Do you ever get tagged on Instagram? Graham, like, I'm watching the movie, The Godfather. Always.

And they're tagging you. Because I'm the Godfather. Yeah, right. Except they put the Godfather to come up, me and say, just Godfather. I'm watching The Godfather. What a classic movie. Right to me. I've seen every scene a hundred times.

I bet. What's your favorite one? I'd say, but it'd give you in trouble. Maybe it's the offer you can. If you be different. Oh, okay. Then we'll just go with the, uh, that often you can't. If we go, that's, come on, that's the godfather.

That is the, amazing that that's the godfather. And sitting right here in front of me is a very different godfather. Much different. Much different. I don't hurt nobody. No. And nobody really has anything bad to say about you. And that's not a bad way to go.

A pretty great way to be. And that's pretty rare in wrestling. Yes, it is. I think because, like I said, wrestling for me was fun. It wasn't political for me. I wasn't trying to take nobody's spot. I was just out there having fun being me, and I always had another means of making money,

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I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claimant, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

Hey guys, I'm Sam Roberts, and excuse the interruption, but I want to talk about feelings. What are you feeling right now? Dread that eventually this podcast is going to end will fear not. Because as soon as this one is done, just look up Not Sam Wrestling and you will have hours of additional pro wrestling podcast content. In Not Sam Wrestling, we get together every single week and we break down everything going on in the world of professional wrestling. And if once a week is not enough, well, then every now and then we'll throw in an interview like when we did last week with Kurt Engel here in the Not Sam studio. or an emergency podcast where we react to what just happened immediately after it happens just going through our feelings.

So if you want to join the community, if you want to live by the three rules of Not Sam Wrestling, watch the product speculate wildly and everything counts. Then join us. Look up Not Sam Wrestling wherever you get podcasts. You seem like the type of person that you were willing to just do whatever made sense for the story. Oh, you want that person to be me? Okay, sounds great. Like I said, I wasn't there to, for that reason.

I was getting paid and being paid well to do a role. And I did that role. I wasn't there to fight with them. Hey, a couple times, I'm like, well, this doesn't make sense. And they refop things. But for the most part, hey, you know, you're paying me. You know, I'm not here to fight with you. And they were, I mean, they were cool with me.

They could have really damaged me a lot and they didn't. I think people might not remember at over the age 99, you were supposed to be Owen Hart's opponent. Oh, yeah. How did you find out the news of like, well, this match can't happen now? I don't remember much of it. I remember being behind the car.

I remember spending the day with Owen. I remember talking with the girls. And then Owen was coming out. I never seen it. But when that happened, I was behind the curtain with the girls. going through it. Don't worry. Everybody showed this.

Don't worry if you mess up. If you fall, I'll do this. I was telling that. And then whoever it was, it might have been Bruce Pritchard. I don't know who was sitting at the table. I know it wasn't Jim Ross, I don't think. He goes, Owen fail. And then I'm like, what? And he goes, Owen just failed.

And I'm like, we're looking at the mind. I'm like, Owen, fail. And then it all went down. I just remembered what Owen looked like when he came through the curtain. And other than that, I really don't work. My wife, I called him. my wife right away and she tells me a lot of things that I said that I don't remember. But she tells me she said, you said this and you said that.

And I'm like, well, I don't remember that. So it was a blur after that. I don't remember how or when I found out that there was no match or if it was going on. I really don't remember. But it must have been like a spur of the moment thing where you're about to go out. And then it's like, hold on a second. We've got to figure out this situation and see what we're going to go from here. like I said, I remember more about the next night.

And then they had set up matches and Vince saying, you guys, I'm going to set these matches up. If you want to work, work. If you don't want to work, don't work. But I got a show to do, basically. And I was matched up against Road Dog. Without any rehearsal, we went out there. And we didn't know what we're going to do.

And we both basically said, screw this, man. Let's go downtown, smoke a joint for it. I won't let it go with that. And that's what we did. Wow. I feel like weed is the through line of your life. Like it feels like good or bad that's gotten you through. It's made me a better person and it keeps the bear away.

We don't like bear? Bear's not, bear's mean, man. Bear's not a nice person. And he doesn't come out too often, but it's better to just keep him away. When Taker calls you Bear, does a little bit of you kind of go, oh, yeah. He's still in there. He gets mad at me. He gets mad at me.

We were sitting there eating. He's like, all right, everybody understands you eat healthy. Once you have something to eat one time, I'm like, dude, I don't want that. And so we're talking about it. I'm like, take care you. You go, stop sitting there scaring people. And I'm like, I don't scare people no more, bro. He's like, yes, you do.

Yes, you do. You still scare people. I'm like, dude, let it go. You're a big dude. Like, people, I don't know if they realize you're a big dude. I was never a bully, but I took nothing. No crap, no, mind you. I'm dealing with real bikers.

these pretend bikers. I'm around real bikers and I'm the only black guy and I do just been in a lot of fights. A lot of fights. I think the telltale sign of how big you are is you're one of the few wrestlers who steps over the top rope when you get into the room. Yes, I got long legs. I got lots of you need long legs to do that. Like there's only a handful I think, you know, when you think about it's only a handful of people who do the step over the top row. I got that 38 inch inseam. Geez. Yeah, I'm short. I mean, if we're sitting down, you're probably taller than me.

But if we sit, yeah, I've got long, long legs. They are long legs, yeah. Did you have to ask for permission to do that entrance? I just, it was the only reason I did it is because Papa Shango had the hat, the skull, the cape. I couldn't go between the ropes. I had to step over it. That's the only way I could get into the ring. And my legs were long enough that I could step over it.

Because it was like a trademark thing. Andre. Andre. Undertaker, big show. Tess started doing, and they told them to stop doing it. A lot of people, they said, but they never bothered me about it.

But I, dude, I got a pass on somebody's big. I just, believe me, they have been better to me that I've been, I should have been fired a hundred times. And they've been so cool with me over the years.

And they're still making action figures. And I'm still, you know, so it's a blessing. What should you have been fired for that you weren't fired for? Okay. One time we're in something to do with Titan motorcycles, right? And that's a taker was just learning the bikes and the Harris boys.

I was out there kind of teaching them how to do certain things on bikes. So I'm like, hey, guys, watch this, watch this. So I put the front wheel of this Titan motorcycle and these things had like 100, 20 horsepower. I think there were like 98-inch bikes or 102 inches. And I put the front wheel up against the wall. And I start going through the gears. So now that back tire is just, whee-h-h-h-h-h.

And I'm in fourth gear, just right. I'm in fifth gear, just wha. All of a sudden, I get a tap on the shoulder. And I look over and it's Vince. So Vince, I turn it down. There's smoke everywhere like Papa Shango just came to the ring. And Vince goes, Charles. Would you do that to your motorcycles?

And I said, no. He goes, then why are you doing it to mine? I mean, it was stuff like that. And then I'd never heard about it again. You know, one time I came down an elevator with a friend of mine in L.A. And back then, you could smoke in elevators. There was no cameras. There was no fire alarms.

I'm going to go back. So me and a friend of mine are smoking in the elevator. We go down, whatever. we go down, the elevator opens up. There's Vince, Bruce Pritcher, Jerry, Brisco. I think Shane, they're all just looking at me, and it's like a Cheech and Chong movie,

the smoke coming out of the elevator. You know what Vince says? Charles, I think we'll take the next one. I mean, should you've been maybe fired for, I mean, Jay, I mean, just a lot of stuff like that were just me having fun being me. But for whatever reason, they allowed it. And maybe it's because you didn't care.

Like, if you got, fired, you just go back to making money somewhere else. Maybe they knew that I didn't give you. Rod said with his way, that's because they know you don't care. And they're making money off of you. They don't care. You know, they know you don't care. That's true, though.

How did you get iced tea to do your entrance there? He wasn't my choice. Mine was Exhibit. Nothing against Ice Tea, but I talked to Snoop. And Snoop's like, hey, man, I got this new kid coming up exhibit and stuff. He goes, you should do his music. And by the time that I called Vince about it, and it's like, no, no, no, we're doing the pimp of all pimps, ice tea.

And so that was his choice. Pimpene, Pimpanane, easy, man. It's a great theme. Hey. They came out with you two, right? Yeah, me and Dilo. Yeah. I don't know what WrestleMania that was, we've one of them.

What do you think your legacy is when you look back at everything you've done over the last 30 plus years? As wrestling? Yeah. It'd be the godfather being the entertainer. and entertain the people that I was. I think a lot of people might remember Shangos such as yourself. And I don't think it'll be the nation.

I don't think it'll be any other stuff. I think it'll be the Godfather because I don't think you will ever, ever, ever see another character like that again, you know, for good or bad? I'm not saying it's a good, a bad thing, but for whatever reason, you'll never see another character like me again. The great thing about the Godfather is as soon as that music hit, It was impossible not to have a smile on your face. Bro, I'm telling you, that's why I'm smiling now, man.

It makes me laugh. And when I see these clips, I'm like, man, I was having a great time. Yeah. It still am. Yeah. It's always so good to see you. Thank you for coming back on the show. Thank you for having me, man.

It's a pleasure to be around you. And especially in Texas, we had a great time. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of stories from that dinner that we were not getting shared. I don't remember. I think Midian, oh my God, Midian. I think Midian and Mark were ordering bottles of wine,

but other than that, I don't think there was a lot more going on. Skag leap. That was some very good cab. I had a couple glasses of us, but I didn't eat no bread. I ate a lot of food. How about Matt?

Oh, yeah. Jeez. I can only eat half a chicken wrist and water. Whatever that swine dream, I think it was like the pork belly wrapped in the... It looked good. Wrapped in the bacon. That was so good. I never tried it.

I didn't try any of it. And then when the dessert menu came around, I'm like, nah, man. Did you order a dessert? Of course I did. I didn't. So to take her. We both had the banana cream pie. Oh, that's right.

He was trying to give you a spoonful and you're like, no. Not having it. With me, especially because of the amount of cannabis that I smoke, and T-HC I take in, you got to say no. You got to say no. If you go in there and get the M&Ms or the Captain Crunch, you get any of that stuff and you start, you're done. You're done.

What happens if we get you and RVD and Matt Riddle altogether? I will say this. If they smoke as much as me, they have issues. And I know about God bless them. But I don't think, hey, they're smokers. I just seen that a couple days ago. I see RVD, but I have issues. If you spoke as much as me, you got serious issues.

Only person is a guy named GW with GWC. He's the only person I talked to. I don't know if you know who that is. It's the greatest world's greatest wrestling collection. He has a wrestling collection bigger than in Detroit. Yes, I know who that is. When the WWE can't find something or needs to, he has it. Believe me.

Jesus. Okay. I talked to him this morning, and I, to him. Because somebody asks, who smokes more? You or him. I smoke an ounce of weed a week. He smokes an ounce of weed a day. Oh, my gosh. I do about two grams of concentrates a day. He does like four or five. So I don't know anybody in this world that smoke. I'm like, dude, you smoke more me. You got issues. This is like that scene from Wolf of Wall Street where Matthew McCona's like, you got to bump those up. Those are rookie numbers. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably what he's thinking to you.

Hey, I stay medicated. I am, people say that I am the most productive stoner they've ever met in their life because it really makes me want to do things. Man, it's hard not to smile when you're around you. That's great. Thank you. Thank you. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for?

It's the question I end every interview with. My family, my dogs. And the fact that I've met a lot of, a lot of good people through wrestling, man, such as Taker and Ron Simmons and RVD and Delo Brown and Teddy Long and Bradshaw. And I've met so many friendships that I haven't wrestled for over 20 years. But yet I text these guys all the time. And when you see, oh, man, it's just great to be around him and tell those stories, which have become lies now.

But, you know, and I bet I'm grateful for that because I've met so many good friends through that. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Never, never. Thank you, sir. Yeah, pleasure being on the show. Man, what a blast. Charles, Charles is just the best. This might be one of those episodes that you'll want to also watch on YouTube.

In addition to just listening to it here on the podcast. What a great guy. So many amazing stories. And I'm just so happy that he was able to come back on the show. He's the best. It's the best. Snap a screenshot. Tag us online so we can share it out.

he's at The Godfather on Instagram, which again, as I pointed out during this interview, pretty crazy that he's at the Godfather and he probably gets tagged all the time in quotes from the movie and also photos from the movie. Amazing. But yes, he's at the Godfather. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And I saw this quote from Cristiano Ronaldo that we can wrap this episode up with. Dreams are not what you see in your sleep. They are the things that don't let you. sleep. Great quote. Be great, be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more inside. We have Carrying Cross joining us on the show again on Thursday, or should I say Jesse Ventura? I don't know. They sound so similar. But yes, Carrying Cross back on the show on

Thursday. We'll see you back here for that one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987.

Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.